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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES SUBJECT / SUJET: PUBLIC HEARING ON THIRD LANGUAGE AND ETHNIC PROGRAMMING / AUDIENCE PUBLIQUE SUR LA PROGRAMMATION MULTILINGUE ET À CARACTÈRE ETHNIQUE HELD AT: TENUE À: Holiday Inn Holiday Inn 370 King Street 370, rue King Toronto, Ontario Toronto (Ontario) February 3, 1999 Le 3 février 1999 Volume 3 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Transcripts In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of Contents. However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the public hearing. Transcription Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières. Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience publique. tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes Transcript / Transcription Public Hearing / Audience publique Third Language and Ethnic Programming / Programmation multilingue et à caractère ethnique BEFORE/DEVANT: M. Wilson Chairperson / Présidente S. Langford Commissioner / Conseiller ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS: D. Rhéaume Secretary / Secrétaire D. Rhéaume Legal Counsel/Conseillers juridiques M. York Analyst/Analyste Volume 3 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 ii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: CFMT 379 Canadian Macedonian Federation 389 CFMT Television 398 Canadian Scene 407 Toronto City Council 413 Moldova Community of Ontario 418 Mr. Harry Chan 423 Mr. Mann Nacario 425 Manila Media Monitor 431 Councillor, City of Toronto 434 Hellenic National Congress 440 Lehan Malti Television Program 443 Macedonian Radio Program 446 Columbus Centre 458 Mr. Thomas S. Saras 463 Asian Television Network 471 National Campus and Community Radio Association 483 Ukrainian Radio Program Association 489 Share newspaper 493 Indo-Canada Chamber of Commerce 502 Mr. Srini Suppiramaniam and Mr. Richard Kanaragaura 507 CanPak Chamber of Commerce 517 Tokmakov City Productions 519 Kontakt Ukrainian TV Network 523 iii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE YWCA of/du Canada 531 Ms Clara Dos Santos 539 Outreach Organization 543 CHUM-TV 548 Dr. Syed Daud and Mr. Zaki Agha 561 Sindhi Association 567 Hindu Memdir and Lohana 573 Indian Broadcasting Corporation 578 Armenian National Federation 586 Ms Rebecca Liu and Ms Bao Sum Chen 592 Polish Credit Union 594 Mr. Clyde McNeil 598 Mr. Spyros Bourdorkis and Ms Vicky Karpeta 605 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 376 1 Toronto, Ontario / Toronto (Ontario) 2 --- Upon resuming on Wednesday, February 3, 1999, 3 at 1600 / L'audience reprend le mercredi, 4 3 février 1999, à 1600 5 1578 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, 6 ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to day three of the 7 CRTC's public consultations on our ethnic broadcasting 8 policy. 9 1579 I know that a number of you have been 10 sitting here for the last two days. Some of us were 11 here until about 11:30 last night in order to get 12 through all of the parties. So, at the risk of 13 sounding repetitive for those of you who have been here 14 since the beginning, I am going to repeat some of our 15 sort of housekeeping matters for you, just to help you 16 understand how the consultation is going to unfold. 17 1580 The CRTC assisting us during this 18 consultation are Donald Rhéaume, legal counsel on my 19 far left. Diane Rhéaume, no relation, Secretary of the 20 public consultation and Morag York on my right. My 21 name is Martha Wilson. I am on the Ontario Regional 22 Commissioner for the CRTC and with me today is 23 Commissioner Stuart Langford on my left. 24 1581 I would invite you to call on any of 25 the staff members with questions you may have, StenoTran 377 1 including any questions about the process today and for 2 I guess the rest of the proceeding. It's just today, 3 so for the rest of today. 4 1582 Our intention is to have the session 5 run until all participants have been heard. As our 6 session last night indicates, that means that we will 7 stay here until everybody has had a chance to make 8 their presentation. The Secretary will call each 9 presenter in order. 10 1583 To ensure that all parties have an 11 opportunity to make a presentation we ask you to limit 12 your comments to 10 minutes. I cannot reinforce to you 13 today how important that is because this is our last 14 day. We have around 45 parties registered to appear, 15 which if you do your math is in excess of seven hours 16 of presentations at 10 minutes each, not including 17 breaks in between each presenter or a short break that 18 we are going to take for dinner and probably just to 19 stretch our legs, since we will be sitting here the 20 entire time. So, I would really ask your co-operation 21 in trying to meet that 10-minute deadline. 22 1584 Please remember that any comments 23 that you have that you feel you have not had an 24 opportunity to make today can be filed with the 25 Commission in writing by March 4. StenoTran 378 1 1585 We will not be asking questions of 2 any of the participants today. The first couple of 3 days we did ask some of the participants questions, but 4 because we have such a full agenda today we will not be 5 asking questions and we would ask you not to interpret 6 this as a lack of interest on our part. From our 7 perspective, the most important aspect of these public 8 consultations is the opportunity for us to listen to 9 you, so that we have a clear idea of what your issues 10 are, what your predispositions are and we can take that 11 back and share it with the other Commissioners as we 12 explore this issue further. 13 1586 As I have said earlier, the 14 proceedings will be transcribed and the transcript will 15 form part of the record upon which the Commission makes 16 its decision. So that the people responsible for this 17 task can provide an accurate record, I would ask that 18 when you speak you press the small white button on your 19 microphone. This will activate the microphone and you 20 will be able to tell that it is on by the red light 21 being lit up. 22 1587 For those of you who prefer to submit 23 your comments in writing, comment cards are available 24 at the back of the room and from the Secretary. If you 25 have any comments you would like to pass on, just write StenoTran 379 1 them on a card, sign it and give it to the Secretary 2 before the end of the session. 3 1588 Finally, I would just like to give 4 you a sense of what our timetable will be today. It 5 will follow pretty much what our timetable was 6 yesterday. We will sit from 4:00 to 6:00. We will 7 take probably a 15-minute break for dinner at that 8 point. I know it is kind of short. We will reconvene 9 at 6;15 and sit until 8:15 and then we will reconvene 10 at 8:30 and probably go until the end. 11 1589 So, having said all of that, I would 12 like to ask our Secretary to call the first participant 13 and thank you for being with us. 14 1590 MS RHÉAUME: Thank you. 15 1591 Our first speaker today is Ms Irene 16 Chu of CFMT. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 1592 MS CHU: Members of the Commission, 19 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Irene Chu. I have 20 been in Canada for 36 years and my mother tongue is 21 Chinese. 22 1593 For the past 10 years I have been an 23 advisor to CFMT-TV and today I would like to address 24 the third-language programming as defined in the policy 25 as Type A, a program in a language or languages other StenoTran 380 1 than French, English or native Canadian. 2 1594 Specifically, I would like to comment 3 on the effectiveness of the policy and how well it 4 serves the community. I might touch upon the policy's 5 relevance in the future and also the need for its 6 continuance. 7 1595 In 1979 the federal government, 8 recognizing that the electronic media was 9 disproportionately lacking in representation from 10 communities other than English and French, initiated a 11 Media Development Course at Ryerson Polytech in 12 Toronto. Through the Secretary of State's 13 Multiculturalism Directorate, 33 individuals from a 14 spectrum of more than 17 different minority communities 15 were selected to participate in that program. Many of 16 the participants have gone on to establish their 17 careers in either radio or television, both in 18 mainstream and ethnic services. This initiative was 19 probably one of the earliest concerted efforts from the 20 government and communities to point to the future 21 directions of the broadcasting industry. 22 1596 It happened at a time when 54 per 23 cent of immigrants use a language other than English or 24 French. 25 1597 The CRTC's ethnic-broadcasting policy StenoTran 381 1 in 1985 provided a thrust to define the shape of things 2 to come. Major players like CFMT, Telelatino and 3 Fairchild Television, they assumed definitive roles in 4 contributing towards achieving the CRTC's goal, which 5 was to have a broadcasting policy reflecting Canada's 6 Cultural and Linguistic Diversity. 7 1598 Today, at the turn of the century, 8 about 80 per cent of our immigrants use a home language 9 other than English or French. Across Canada, 10 per 10 cent of our population, which is about 2.8 million, use 11 a third language as the most common language spoken at 12 home and in Metro Toronto that number rises to 33.07 13 per cent. Today we have available more than 57 ethnic 14 broadcasting services covering TV, radio, off-air 15 television and on-air cable and what not. It's an 16 impressive number. 17 1599 Radio services are available in more 18 than 15, 16 different languages and in television, as 19 in the case of CFMT, there are 160 hours of programming 20 every week is broadcast in at least 15 different 21 languages and directed at 18 distinct ethnic groups. 22 1600 Generally speaking then, the 23 Commission's policy has been effective in reflecting 24 Canada's cultural and linguistic diversity. The 25 breadth and the depth of its implementation, however, StenoTran 382 1 could be strengthened and expanded. 2 1601 The Commission asks how the policy 3 has worked in the communities. I will give a few 4 examples to say how it impacted the Chinese community. 5 1602 In 1985, I was appointed a Canadian 6 Citizenship Court Judge and from the thousands of 7 interviews I conducted with applicants I learned a very 8 valuable lesson and that is language is not of the 9 first and foremost importance in the process of an 10 immigrant's integration into the host society. 11 1603 I also spent eight years on the 12 Immigration Appeals Division of the immigration and 13 Refugee Board. Again, of the countless cases I 14 presided over, it shows me that the immigrants who have 15 been successful in integrating into the mainstream are 16 those who are aware of what is going on regardless of 17 their skill in English or French. Basically, it is 18 knowing the law and the regulations of the country, 19 appreciating the privileges and responsibilities of 20 citizenship, understanding what is happening around 21 them and tasting the essence of Canadian living that 22 makes the immigrant feel that he or she belongs. in 23 this respect, the ethnic broadcasting services have 24 done an indispensable job. 25 1604 CFMT-TV and Fairchild Television have StenoTran 383 1 produced excellent programs that provide 2 "third-language viewers" with information on current 3 affairs, controversial issues and the happenings around 4 us. This access to information is the first step that 5 leads the newcomers to become part of the Canadian 6 society and make them feel less "foreign" in their new 7 environment. 8 1605 Radio programs from stations like 9 CHIN-FM and CIAO, they offer talk shows which encourage 10 the listeners to express their point of view, their 11 opinions, their suggestions on a variety of topics. 12 This again is a means to bridge the cultural gap and 13 make the newcomers feel that they are truly a part of 14 this country. 15 1606 If there were no third-language 16 programming, the thinking, the outlook and the 17 mentality of these newcomers would be a great deal more 18 segregated from the mainstream and their chance of 19 integration would be much hampered. 20 1607 The benefits of third-language 21 programs are not limited to cultural integration. They 22 also play an invaluable part in fostering communication 23 between the non-English/non-French speaking senior 24 members of the family and their totally English/French 25 fluent children or grandchildren. StenoTran 384 1 1608 I can speak from experience. Thirty 2 years ago when my children were growing up there was no 3 Chinese language programming available. Much as I 4 tried, I even founded a Chinese School for their 5 benefit, but I was not able to teach them successfully 6 the language of Chinese. As a result, my children and 7 my mother-in-law they cannot communicate and they miss 8 a lot of the closeness between what naturally comes 9 between grandparents and grandchildren. 10 1609 On the other hand, my friend Linda 11 who came 15 years ago, she has a different story to 12 tell. Her mother, Mrs. Lee, lives with them. Mrs. lee 13 doesn't speak English, but she insists that the whole 14 family watch Chinese programs in the evening. As a 15 result, Linda's family reaps a two-fold benefit. 16 1610 While Mrs. Lee learns about Canada 17 and the Canadian way of living, and is also kept 18 current on everything that is going on in the country 19 or in the neighbourhood, her two grandchildren are 20 provided the opportunity to acquire the mother tongue 21 of their parents. not only can they communicate 22 freely, but every member of the family is able to 23 participate in discussions of all the current affairs, 24 hot topics of the day and whatnot, and Linda credits 25 the Chinese language programming for their much StenoTran 385 1 enriched family life. 2 1611 And now today, with businesses, 3 trades and investments becoming increasingly global, it 4 is a precious asset for a person to have a third 5 language capability. Forward-looking parents are 6 making conscientious efforts to encourage their 7 children to be multilingual, not just bilingual. 8 Third-language programming provides excellent training 9 grounds for them to achieve this goal. 10 1612 To those of us who are relatively 11 comfortable in English or French and who have also 12 retained our mother tongue, it is always an added 13 enjoyment to learn the precise equivalents in two 14 different languages. it upgrades our skill in 15 expressing ourselves in either one of the languages. 16 In recent years I have translated two books from 17 Chinese to English and I must say that I owe much to 18 the third-language programming. 19 1613 With the repatriation of Hong Kong to 20 China in 1997, it became necessary for Hong Kong 21 residents to learn to speak Mandarin, or Putonghua, 22 which is the unifying common dialect spoken in China 23 and Taiwan. Both CFMT-TV and Fairchild Television 24 offer programs in Cantonese, as well as in Mandarin, 25 thus allowing access to people from China, Taiwan and StenoTran 386 1 Hong Kong alike. The Hong Kong immigrants are 2 particularly pleased now that they have a built-in 3 opportunity to learn a new dialect which is used by the 4 majority of Chinese. 5 1614 So, in all, the Chinese community has 6 been well served by the third language programming 7 policy. 8 1615 Looking ahead to the 21st century, it 9 is reasonable to expect that third language and ethnic 10 programming will continue to flourish. 11 1616 Canada's Employment Equity Act 12 projects that the visible minority population is 13 expected to comprise an increasingly greater proportion 14 of Canadian population over the next 10 years. The 15 projection reads that in 1991 it was 9.6 per cent; in 16 1996 it was 11.7 per cent; in the year 2001 it will be 17 14.1 per cent and in the year 2006 it will be 16.3 per 18 cent. It equates to an average increase of about 2.2 19 per cent every five years. 20 1617 And with about 120,000 immigrants 21 coming to Canada every year, 80 per cent of them use a 22 mother language other than French or English, the 23 so-called "third-language community" will be a 24 significant force in our society. Therefore, the 25 third-language programming would definitely be more in StenoTran 387 1 demand than ever before. 2 1618 The Commission has expressed concern 3 over how advanced technology, Internet or digitization 4 will affect the production and distribution of ethnic 5 programming. While foreign services will be made more 6 available over the Internet and through increased 7 capacity of digitization, the fact remains that people, 8 in general, have an intrinsic need for a strong sense 9 of belonging locally -- their own neighbourhood, their 10 own community, their city, their province and so on. 11 So, it may be that the homeland program may suffer a 12 set back with the new technology, but the Canadian 13 content program will no doubt be just as well received 14 as before. The market will dictate and it may just be 15 the impetus needed to drive the ethnic program 16 producers to take up the challenge and to produce more 17 and higher quality Canadian content programming with 18 distinct local flavour. 19 1619 It is imperative that the CRTC's 20 third language and ethnic programming policy be 21 maintained and continued with provisions for 22 improvement, adjustment and advancement. The policy 23 has been a good thing to the communities and to Canada 24 as a nation. It will continue to do good to the 25 country and the people. StenoTran 388 1 1620 Keeping the future in mind, the 2 Commission should look to allow the existing services 3 to grow and expand and provide more services to be made 4 available to more people. 5 1621 Taking a specific situation with the 6 Chinese community, since 1991, about 25 per cent of all 7 immigrants have been of Chinese descent. The 8 percentage of population whose mother tongue is Chinese 9 has increased by 42 per cent to 760,000 in 1996, which 10 was 2.6 per cent of the total population. Chinese has 11 now become the third most common language spoken at 12 home in Canada, overtaking Italian, German and Spanish. 13 1622 According to the 1996 census, people 14 of Chinese descent in Vancouver totalled 198,705 and in 15 Toronto that number was 243,845. Today, the unofficial 16 number is a quarter of a million in Vancouver and about 17 a half a million in the Greater Toronto Region. 18 1623 The Chinese language television 19 programs are provided by CFMT and Fairchild. While 20 Fairchild offers more of a homeland style in its 21 programming whether produced here or brought in from 22 abroad, CFMT produces programs with a strong Canadian 23 character. CFMT, unfortunately, is only available in 24 Ontario; Fairchild, on the other hand, is both national 25 and regional and available is almost all the major StenoTran 389 1 cities across Canada. 2 1624 I feel it is very wasteful to have 3 good programs not used to their full capacity, as in 4 the case of CFMT. More than a quarter of a million 5 people of Chinese background in the western provinces 6 do not have access to many of those high-quality 7 programs produced by CFMT. It is a deprivation that 8 needs to be corrected. 9 1625 In conclusion, I would like the 10 Commission to liberalize its third language ethnic 11 programming policy to allow more third language and 12 ethnic programming presence in the different 13 communities; to ensure that the existing services be 14 given more room for growth and expansion; and to 15 examine and modify the conditions for license to suit 16 the present and future needs. 17 1626 Thank you. 18 1627 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 19 much, Ms Chu. 20 1628 Would you call the next party please. 21 1629 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 22 Spero Bassil, President of the Canadian Macedonian 23 Federation. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 1630 MR. BASSIL: Thank you. StenoTran 390 1 1631 Honoured guests, members of the 2 Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications 3 Commission, friends and colleagues, I wish you a very 4 good afternoon and hopefully it will be a quick one. 5 1632 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's doubtful. 6 1633 MR. BASSIL: Yes. 7 1634 My name is Spero Bassil. I am 8 President of the Canadian Macedonian Federation. We 9 are a national charity which represents over 66 10 organizations and over 100,000 Macedonians across 11 Canada. Our mission is to bring together Canadian 12 macedonians throughout this great land to explore, to 13 understand and to celebrate our rich heritage. And we 14 hope in the process to create upstanding members of our 15 society. 16 1635 I was asked to speak this afternoon 17 on a few issues, but I felt the focus of my 18 presentation was to tell you why Macedonian media, such 19 as one of our radio programs, Voice of Macedonia, on 20 CHIN and our television program, Macedonian Heritage, 21 on CFMT, is critically important to our community. 22 1636 I could begin by telling you that 23 Macedonian media touches most Canadian Macedonians at 24 least once on a weekly basis. Further, I could tell 25 you that our community, first hand, depends on those StenoTran 391 1 shows to know what is happening to our people here in 2 Canada and particularly the GTA. Macedonian media lays 3 out the groundwork for those Canadian Macedonians who 4 want to learn about immigration policies of our 5 government, how to obtain information from the 6 government for driver's licences, for example, where to 7 go to get a passport, who to call for commercial 8 services and to find people who understand their needs 9 and their difficulties as new Canadians. They need to 10 know where to find a job, how to ride the bus lines. 11 The benefits to our community, especially now as our 12 people age, is becoming crystal clear. 13 1637 Macedonian ethnocultural 14 communications joins the Canadians of Macedonian 15 heritage to each other. 16 1638 No other means can or yet has 17 achieved that goal. It's a very valuable asset, 18 especially to someone like me, who needs to send 19 messages to our people about the new $25 million 20 community and cultural centre where young Canadians can 21 come and learn about their Macedonian history and, more 22 importantly, learn about the macedonian experience here 23 in their new home Canada, to learn about the drug and 24 alcohol abuse programs that we have, and our 25 scholarships that young people can apply to, to ease StenoTran 392 1 the burden of education so that we can raise good, 2 well-educated Canadians who will lift our entire 3 community and this great country. 4 1639 I can tell you about the disabled 5 folks and the shut-ins who watch and listen to these 6 shows and that helps them be part the community, but I 7 think the best way to illustrate the importance is to 8 tell you about my family and how media, the ethnic 9 media, the radio and TV has affected our lives first 10 hand. 11 1640 I was raised middle class, a son of 12 merchants. I am first generation Canadian and I am of 13 this soil. I never felt that I was anything other than 14 what I was taught at school and learned from my peer 15 groups. But when I looked at my grandparents, 16 especially my grandmother, Lena, who was my Baba Lena 17 as we called her, I always felt a bit of sadness. here 18 was a woman who had survived the war, raised a child, 19 my father, without a husband and eventually, when 20 financial times got better and the war ended, followed 21 her mate to this new country. 22 1641 My granddad had already been here for 23 almost two decades and was entrenched in our society. 24 He learned the language and he was a successful 25 businessman. This poor woman did not speak the StenoTran 393 1 language, and to the day she died she could hardly 2 converse in English. Her function was to stay at home 3 and to keep the house, that was all. The men in the 4 extended family tended to business. She was basically 5 alone, in a strange wondrous land without an ability to 6 know what's going on. 7 1642 Macedonian media provided her the 8 information that she could understand in her language. 9 Sure she was interested in what was happening back 10 home, but like the good Canadian that she was, she 11 needed to know what was happening here. Now. Today. 12 Things that we take for granted, like how many 13 provinces there are, who the Prime Minister is, where 14 we grow the food that comes in the grocery store, all 15 the way to when the church bazaar was came from the 16 media. Without that lifeline to the outside world, as 17 a Canadian, she was removed from the very basic 18 knowledge that all Canadians enjoy. There was nowhere 19 else to get that information. And for her to function, 20 she needed that connection. 21 1643 Macedonian media showed her our city 22 Hall and then she wanted to see the city hall. It 23 showed her how the courts worked. She wanted to go 24 down and see how the courts worked. She wanted to 25 visit the church by herself and she learned about the StenoTran 394 1 TTC from a number provided by the ethnic media. The 2 impact was so immeasurable that without the media she 3 would have watched television and the pretty pictures 4 and never would have been exposed to the wonders that 5 were outside her door, the wonders that our Canada had 6 to offer. 7 1644 She even wanted her own bank account, 8 so we went down and opened it up for her the next day 9 when she found out that there was compound interest. 10 1645 Imagine, if you will, a quiet strange 11 world to an older ethnic woman and imagine the smile on 12 her face when she turned on the TV or the radio. I 13 remember it will. 14 1646 On a broader scale, if the goal of 15 ethnic media is to provide information domestic and 16 international, if it is to expose the arts, ethnic and 17 otherwise and if it is to make the viewer or listener 18 who is new to Canada or has been here for a while feel 19 connected or safer and appreciative of what Canada 20 means and how great it is to be Canadian, then our TV, 21 the Macedonian shows have accomplished their mission. 22 1647 This country and indeed all of North 23 America was built and conceived by immigrants, from the 24 nordic people to the British Isles, to Europe, to Asia, 25 to Africa and all points in between. This country was StenoTran 395 1 built by the sweat of their brows. The role of 2 government has been and will continue to be, I hope in 3 this matter, to try to ease that transition, to make 4 living here a little easier and that is something I 5 can't comment on because my grandparents and parents 6 lived through the transition so that I could finish 7 school and become a positive, strong and a very proud 8 Canadian. 9 1648 On the issue of demographic changes 10 that have taken place, because I have not been exposed 11 to specific data about Canadians of Macedonian 12 heritage, I don't feel that I could responsibly answer 13 the concern. However, if I was to make an attempt at 14 the answer, I would say that as far as the Macedonians 15 were concerned, the 35 and over group who make up the 16 majority of listeners and viewers are enjoying and 17 benefiting from the programming. 18 1649 There is no doubt in my mind that 19 within 10 years this study will have to be revisited to 20 determine whether or not the viewership still exists 21 and whether or not the benefits are there for that 22 ethnic group and the population as a whole. 23 1650 Further, on the issue of importing 24 foreign services rather than developing Canadian 25 ethnocultural services, I think given what I have StenoTran 396 1 talked about, the results would be catastrophic and 2 defeat the very essence of ethnocultural broadcasting. 3 I can't stress enough the absolute blessing that our 4 radio and TV shows have brought to Canadian 5 Macedonians. Without them our people would have 6 scattered away from the fold, churches probably would 7 not have been built, seniors' homes never conceived nor 8 funded, children's dance groups not having the 9 opportunity to reach out to the community. Foreign 10 services would be just that, foreign, and not Canadian 11 shows run by Canadians to serve macedonians in their 12 new homeland. 13 1651 There are Macedonians from coast to 14 coast in this great big country, and my position is 15 that the ethnocultural broadcasting system must now 16 grow to meet the demand for the next 10 years. 17 1652 As a person who is marketing, I know 18 that when a banquet is held annually for our media 19 people as a celebration, and the venue sells out very 20 quickly, somebody is listening, somebody is watching 21 and somebody appreciates what they are receiving. 22 1653 In my heart of hearts I know that 23 what we have in our community is getting the message 24 out to the people. Ethnomedia, without a doubt is 25 moulding the future generations of Canada. It is StenoTran 397 1 promoting model citizenry and it is creating a harmony 2 and peace for which Canada is known worldwide. I ask 3 you to try to understand what CFMT and CHIN, for 4 example, mean to the ethnic people of this land and I 5 ask you to help me grow this wonderful thing called 6 ethnocultural broadcasting, so that we can touch and 7 better the lives of all Canadians. 8 1654 Thank you. 9 1655 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. Bassil. 11 1656 If I could just make a suggestion to 12 all of you and at the risk of sounding like a real task 13 master on this time issue. You might remove your watch 14 and put it in front of you when you are making your 15 presentation and just keep your eye on it. The 16 Secretary will be indicating 10 minutes when you have 17 hit 10 minutes, just because we have to keep moving 18 through. 19 1657 I just want to reinforce to all of 20 you again that I would like nothing better than to have 21 many hours to listen and to talk and to question and it 22 is unfortunate that we just don't have that time 23 because of the overwhelming response that we have had. 24 1658 So, please forgive me if I sound kind 25 of focused on this time issue. I would rather not be StenoTran 398 1 focused on it, but if you could just use the trick of 2 taking your watch off and keep your eye on the clock 3 and Madam Rhéaume will let you know when 10 minutes has 4 arrived. 5 1659 Thank you. 6 1660 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presentation is 7 by Madeline Ziniak and Leslie Sole of CFMT Television. 8 1661 MR. SOLE: I certainly hope I am not 9 the first one gonged in this presentation. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 1662 MR. SOLE: Members of the Commission, 12 I am Leslie Sole, Executive Vice-President and General 13 Manager of CFMT Television. With me is Madeline 14 Ziniak, Executive Producer and Vice-President. 15 1663 We are pleased to participate in the 16 first phase of this important policy proceeding. As 17 the turnout for the public consultations clearly 18 demonstrates, both here in Toronto and across the 19 country, there is substantial public interest in the 20 policy issues identified by Commission Public Notice 21 1998-135 and in ethnic broadcasting in general. 22 1664 We bring to this Hearing 20 years of 23 experience as Canada's and the world's first 24 over-the-air multilingual, multicultural television 25 station. CFMT was launched in 1979. It struggled StenoTran 399 1 financially until 1985, when it was acquired by Rogers 2 Broadcasting. Rogers' pioneering experience with 3 multicultural channels on cable in Toronto and 4 Vancouver provided a firm foundation for our entry into 5 multilingual television broadcasting. 6 1665 Our commitment to delivering the 7 highest quality broadcasting services has led us to 8 make substantial investments in CFMT's facilities and 9 constant staff training. We have expanded the coverage 10 of the station throughout southern and eastern Ontario. 11 Our program schedule is constantly evolving in response 12 to the changing needs and interests of the many 13 different ethnocultural groups that we serve. 14 1666 Like other over-the-air television 15 stations, multilingual television stations are expected 16 to provide diverse programming that addresses many 17 different needs and interests of the local community. 18 In practice, this means that CFMT provides programming 19 each month for members of at least 18 different 20 ethnocultural groups in at least 15 different 21 languages. This ensures that the members of the 22 ethnocultural community have access to high quality, 23 Canadian television programming in the language of 24 their comfort. 25 1667 The 1985 broadcasting policy provided StenoTran 400 1 a solid foundation for CFMT to become the successful 2 multilingual television station that it is today. We 3 believe that the basic principles of that policy remain 4 sound. 5 1668 MS ZINIAK: The ethnic broadcasting 6 policy is a proven success on which we continue to 7 build. The ethnic broadcasting policy of 1985 is based 8 on three key policy principles. 9 1669 First, the ethnic broadcasting policy 10 recognizes that the programming provided by the 11 Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the 12 multicultural character of Canada. The obligation to 13 provide such reflection programming is shared by all 14 elements of the Canadian broadcasting system. 15 1670 Second, the ethnic broadcasting 16 policy recognizes that the Canadian broadcasting system 17 must go beyond merely reflecting multicultural 18 diversity. In addition, it must provide high quality 19 Canadian programming in languages other than English 20 and French. Third-language programming is essential to 21 support cultural retention, consistent with Canada's 22 multicultural policy, while at the same time 23 facilitating integration. It is a means for members of 24 ethnocultural communities to become a part of, not to 25 stand apart from life in Canada. StenoTran 401 1 1671 Third, the ethnic policy recognizes 2 that the structure of the ethnic broadcasting system 3 will evolve and over time will come to resemble the 4 structure of other components of the broadcasting 5 system. There will be a basic foundation of free, 6 over-the-air ethnic broadcasting services. These 7 services are to provide predominantly Canadian 8 programming and serve a broad cross-section of the 9 ethnocultural audience. To these services will be 10 added more specialized Canadian and foreign services 11 that provide additional third-language programming. 12 1672 Clearly, it is challenging to provide 13 a wide variety of high quality Canadian programming in 14 many different languages in a commercial broadcasting 15 environment. But we believe that is an essential 16 function of a local multilingual television station. 17 There simply is not enough spectrum to provide free, 18 over-the-air television services for all ethnocultural 19 groups. nor is there the necessary economic 20 infrastructure. 21 1673 We work closely with the members of 22 our community advisory board, with independent 23 producers from the various ethnocultural groups that we 24 serve and with other members of the community. We have 25 comprehensive policies to assess programming proposals StenoTran 402 1 and to ensure that our program schedule adequately 2 serves members of larger and smaller ethnocultural 3 groups. We also work closely with local and national 4 advertisers to help them understand the value of 5 advertising in third languages. 6 1674 We are proud of how we manage this 7 diverse program production process. I would be pleased 8 to answer any questions that the Commission may have in 9 this area. 10 1675 In the Public Notice, the Commission 11 noted that the introduction of digital cable will make 12 it possible for members of ethnocultural groups to have 13 increased access to third language television 14 programming. We agree that increased third-language 15 programming choice is important and valuable for 16 members of ethnocultural groups. 17 1676 However, foreign programming is not a 18 substitute for Canadian programming in third languages. 19 The proliferation of foreign programming choices will 20 make it even more important that we provide high 21 quality, Canadian third language programming that 22 offers information on Canadian society and the world 23 from a Canadian point of view. 24 1677 MR. SOLE: The Commission has also 25 indicated that it wishes to examine the economics of StenoTran 403 1 ethnic broadcasting. We have learned by experience 2 that the economics of ethnic broadcasting closely 3 resemble those of English and French language 4 broadcasting. 5 1678 Some services, such as specialty 6 services, achieve financial viability by combining two 7 revenue streams: advertising and subscription 8 payments. Over-the-air services have access to only 9 advertising revenues. They must generate revenues from 10 popular foreign programming if they are to achieve 11 financial viability and cover the cost of providing 12 high quality Canadian programming. 13 1679 A station like CFMT must serve a wide 14 variety of larger and smaller ethnocultural groups. 15 Smaller ethnocultural groups often do not have the 16 social and economic infrastructure necessary to fully 17 support Canadian third language television programming. 18 Yet they are often the most urgently in need of such 19 programming. Without the ability to recover the cost 20 of producing Canadian ethnic programming from the 21 revenues generated from foreign English-language 22 programming, CFMT could not fulfil its important public 23 policy mandate on a financially viable basis. 24 1680 As such, we believe that the current 25 60 per cent/40 per cent rule should be maintained. StenoTran 404 1 Like conventional television stations, multilingual 2 television stations must be able to provide up to 40 3 per cent non-Canadian English language programming if 4 they are to have the financial resources to carry out 5 their mandate. We base this conclusion not only on our 6 own experience, but on the experience of CJNT 7 Television in Montreal. The recent application seeking 8 authority to change CJNT's conditions of licence 9 highlights the ongoing validity and the importance of 10 the 60/40 rule. 11 1681 At the same time, multilingual 12 television stations are required to provide 75 per cent 13 ethnic programming between 8:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. 14 each evening. Unlike conventional stations, we provide 15 Canadian programming in the heart of evening prime 16 time, with non-Canadian English programs confined to 17 fringe prime and non-prime time periods. 18 1682 While the current ethnic broadcasting 19 policy has been effective, we agree with the Commission 20 that there may be some ways that it could be improved. 21 1683 For example, we agree that the 22 current policy framework appears to discourage ethnic 23 broadcasters from providing multicultural 24 programming -- that is programming in English or French 25 and designed to address multicultural issues or to StenoTran 405 1 promote cross-cultural exchange. That kind of problem 2 could be addressed if multicultural programming were to 3 qualify as ethnic programming. We believe this should 4 be subject to some limitations. 5 1684 As well, we believe that the ethnic 6 policy should be simplified by decreasing the number of 7 ethnic programming categories. The number of 8 categories could be decreased from five to three, or 9 possibly even two, with no significant impact on the 10 achievement of policy objectives. 11 1685 In our written submission we will 12 propose other ways in which the administration and 13 reporting requirements of the ethnic policy could be 14 streamlined. 15 1686 Finally, let me turn to the issue of 16 a national multilingual television network. 17 1687 We believe that the licensing of such 18 a network should become a priority, after CJNT in 19 Montreal has been stabilized and after a new 20 multilingual television station has been licensed in 21 Vancouver. A national multilingual television network 22 is the best and most effective way to extend the 23 benefits of the Commission's successful ethnic policy 24 beyond the largest markets in Canada. 25 1688 A national multilingual television StenoTran 406 1 network could help support the development of 2 distinctive local multilingual television stations in 3 various markets across this country that are too small 4 to support stations on a stand alone basis, like 5 Winnipeg, Edmonton and Calgary. These local 6 multilingual television stations would provide viewers 7 with a distinctive, high quality Canadian alternative 8 to the ever-wider choice of foreign programming 9 services that will soon be available. In doing so, a 10 national multilingual network would address the need 11 that has been identified in this public consultation 12 for "free" access to a basic level of service for 13 ethnocultural groups in smaller Canadian markets. 14 1689 Once the multilingual television 15 stations -- 16 1690 MS RHÉAUME: Mr. Sole, could you 17 wrap-up please. 18 1691 MR. SOLE: Once the multilingual 19 television stations are securely established in the 20 three largest markets, we believe the Commission should 21 call for applications for a national multilingual 22 television network licence. The Commission should 23 invite applicants, together with their potential 24 affiliates, to describe how the licensing of such a 25 network would meet the objectives of the policy and StenoTran 407 1 address the needs and interests of the members of the 2 ethnocultural groups in each of the communities to be 3 served. 4 1692 Thank you for allowing me to be 30 5 seconds over and, of course, we will have detailed 6 comments in Phase 2. 7 1693 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will look 8 forward to that, Mr. Sole. Thank you very much to both 9 of you. 10 1694 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Dr. 11 Judith Pilowsky. Dr. Judith Pilowsky. 12 1695 We will go to the next one. Mr. John 13 Oostrom, President of Canadian Scene. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 1696 MR. OOSTROM: Good evening. My name 16 is John Oostrom and I am President of Canadian Scene, 17 which is a free, national, non-profit, multilingual 18 news and information service for Canada's ethnic media. 19 On behalf of our volunteer board of directors I would 20 like to thank you for this opportunity to be part of 21 these consultations. 22 1697 In April of this year, Canadian Scene 23 will have been in existence for 48 years. It's a 24 registered Canadian charitable corporation and we began 25 publishing in 1951, distributing news and information StenoTran 408 1 about Canada in seven languages to some 30 publications 2 and a handful of radio programs. Today we distribute 3 bulletins twice monthly in 13 languages and to nearly 4 400 print media and 200 radio and television programs 5 across Canada. 6 1698 We would, of course, publish many 7 more translations, but we are confined only by the 8 budget that our funding permits. Our 100 per cent 9 Canadian content deals with Canadian customs, history, 10 institutions, laws, arts and sciences and the rights 11 and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship. We 12 believe that good Canadian citizens are informed 13 citizens. 14 1699 Our board of directors reflects our 15 faith in multiculturalism. Our honourary chair was 16 born in Hungary. I myself came from the Netherlands, 17 just out of my teens, shortly after the close of World 18 War Two. Our vice-president was born in Hong Kong, our 19 treasurer in India and our secretary in Hungary. Other 20 board members and staff reflect Byelorussian, English, 21 German, italian, Jamaican, Japanese, Russian and 22 Scottish heritages. 23 1700 We believe that over 48 years, 24 Canadian Scene has established a position of trust with 25 the ethnic media. Almost weekly, as new broadcast StenoTran 409 1 programs and print media are established, we receive 2 requests to receive our twice monthly bulletins. 3 Ethnic media are growing in number as immigration 4 brings more and more diversity to Canada. 5 1701 I am sure you have all heard the 6 complaint "Why can't they learn English or speak 7 English or French?" And even "Why accept immigrants 8 who can't speak either official language?" But I am 9 sure that you know as well as I do, that the world 10 isn't made up of linguistic scholars and that the great 11 desire to immigrate here is shown by people from all 12 walks of life. 13 1702 Our official policy of 14 multi-culturalism recognized this fact when it was 15 introduced in 1971 and further enshrined in the 16 Multiculturalism Act of 1998 (sic). I am proud to say 17 that I was a member of the Parliament that passed the 18 Act without a dissenting vote. 19 1703 Last December, Citizenship and 20 Immigration minister Lucienne Robillard announced 21 proposals for a new Citizenship Act and a new 22 immigration Act which will be tabled following further 23 public consultations. In the immigration Act she chose 24 not to accept the recommendations of a committee that 25 had in 1997 recommended that new immigrants be required StenoTran 410 1 to speak one of our official languages. Because, after 2 public consultations she had learned that such a 3 restriction would be neither popular nor productive. 4 1704 Looking at the future of Canadian 5 Scene we can, therefore, see a need for it as long as 6 immigration is needed which, as demographers tell us, 7 will be a very long time if we are to maintain the 8 population growth necessary to keep Canada a strong and 9 healthy nation. Some people ask me why we need to 10 publish multilingually. 11 1705 I do not think that any of us are 12 naive enough to believe that however well a person 13 becomes fluent in another tongue, he or she casts off 14 the mother tongue like an old piece of clothing. to 15 millions, the mother tongue remains what our managing 16 editor, Ben Viccari, has termed the "language of 17 comfort". 18 1706 Doesn't it follow then, that it's 19 much easier for a huge number of new Canadians to 20 absorb vital information about the way Canada works in 21 his or her language of comfort? From our experience at 22 Canadian Scene through feedback from print editors and 23 broadcasters, this kind of information is considered 24 important and our translations are helpful. 25 1707 That is why, on behalf of our board StenoTran 411 1 and the many media to which we distribute our news and 2 information bulletins, we endorse a policy of third- 3 language broadcasting, especially that which contains a 4 large percentage of Canadian content. While in the 5 knowledge that ethnic broadcasting is governed by 6 market conditions we trust that the Commission's policy 7 towards it will continue to reflect its encouragement 8 and sensible growth. 9 1708 We would like further to comment on 10 what the Commission terms Type E programming. Programs 11 of an ethnocultural nature in French or English 12 directed to an ethnic group or groups, or to a 13 mainstream audience that further an understanding of 14 multiculturalism are of a highly desirable nature and 15 should be considered as part of ethnic programming. 16 1709 May I offer one example of this kind 17 of programming? Last year, CFMT-TV produced a 18 30-minute documentary in English entitled "The Courage 19 to Stand". It was made in British Columbia and tells 20 how two communities in that province, Kelowna and 21 Oliver, are working to combat the activities of 22 organized racism. Since members of ethnocultural 23 communities are shown as the targets and multicultural 24 organizations as part of the activities against racism, 25 it has a potent message for all Canadians. StenoTran 412 1 1710 In closing, I would like to quote 2 Frank Belle, for many years an ethnic media specialist 3 with the federal government, who wrote in a report on 4 citizenship and I quote: 5 "In 1938 Brazil banned the 6 foreign language press. 7 According to two Brazilian 8 social scientists, the ban, 9 which lasted for eight years was 10 extremely harmful to 11 integration. What was not 12 appreciated by the Brazilian 13 government was that the ban 14 contributed to the immigrant's 15 isolation from the Brazilian 16 scene. The government did not 17 appear to realize that mass 18 media communications in the 19 language of the newcomers could 20 be excellent for acquainting the 21 newly arrived with the various 22 aspects of Brazilian life. The 23 social scientists emphasized 24 that immigrant adjustment could 25 have been eased through the use StenoTran 413 1 of media in their respective 2 tongues. on arrival in the new 3 land, the immigrant is most 4 anxious to learn about his or 5 her new country. The policy of 6 the government drove the various 7 ethnic groups into immediate 8 isolation. They were denied 9 access to the very information 10 which would have speeded their 11 integration." 12 1711 Ladies and gentlemen, in conclusion i 13 would like to thank you for having organized these 14 consultations and for permitting Canadian Scene to take 15 part in it. 16 1712 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. Oostrom. 18 1713 MS RHÉAUME: Just so you can follow, 19 Presenter 6 and 22 have been switched, so the next 20 presenter will be Mr. Raymond Cho of the Toronto City 21 Council. 22 1714 THE CHAIRPERSON: Welcome, Mr. Cho. 23 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 24 1715 MR. CHO: Thank you very much. 25 1716 I would also like to thank mr. Srini StenoTran 414 1 Suppiraniam, Executive Director of TV Ceylon for 2 letting me take his place. Actually, I should be at 3 City Council. We have City Council and I just snuck 4 out because I feel this public hearing is more 5 important that any of the agendas at Toronto City. 6 1717 So, to make my representation very 7 brief I am going to read it if you don't mind. 8 1718 I would like to begin my deputation 9 by extending my sincere thanks to all the members of 10 this committee and the Canadian Radio and Television 11 Corporation for allowing me and other members of the 12 public to share our views on ethnic TV in the Canadian 13 multicultural society. 14 1719 I have taken the liberty of 15 submitting this deputation to the committee since the 16 role and contribution of ethnic television and radio is 17 so vitally important in terms of forming the social 18 fabric of the Canadian multicultural mosaic society. 19 1720 If I may, I would like to introduce 20 myself very briefly. Actually, I said I am here, but i 21 am not able to attend this hearing in person. At this 22 time i should be attending the Toronto City Council. 23 1721 I have been in Canada for the last 32 24 years and i happen to be the first and the only elected 25 representative from a Korean background in Canada. I StenoTran 415 1 am proud to be Canadian and i am so proud of my Korean 2 cultural background. 3 1722 Prior to becoming a politician, I was 4 a social worker with the Board of Education. I hold a 5 doctorate degree in counselling psychology and also 6 studied multiculturalism. 7 1723 I am in full support of multicultural 8 TV and radio for the following reasons: 9 1724 I feel extremely proud and fortunate 10 to be living in Toronto, which is considered to be the 11 best city in the world in which to live and in which to 12 work. one of the city's major strengths is that it has 13 close to 100 ethnic groups, speaking 170 languages. It 14 is the only place in the world where so many diverse 15 groups live in peace and harmony. I see this every day 16 in my role as a city councillor and as Chairman of the 17 Toronto Zoo Board, one of the finest institutions of 18 its kind in the world, which serves the whole 19 community, not just the ethnic community. 20 1725 When every diverse cultural group 21 remains healthy culturally, socially and economically, 22 the whole society becomes healthier and everyone 23 benefits. It is very important to feel proud of one's 24 cultural background and to be able to communicate in 25 one's first language. It is important for one to have StenoTran 416 1 freedom of speech. If we cut down on their ethnic 2 communication channel, every ethnic group will become 3 less active and more frustrated and thus affect all of 4 mainstream Canada negatively. 5 1726 In the States, they emphasize the 6 melting pot. In Canada, especially in the Greater 7 Toronto Area, we respect one's cultural diversity. The 8 credit goes to all the media people, in television, 9 radio and the press. 10 1727 Therefore, thank you to all at the 11 Canadian Radio and Television Corporation. 12 1728 Since my background is korean, I 13 would like to give you some background about TV Korea, 14 Channel 47, CFMT. 15 1729 TV Korea has been in operation for 16 nine years and I have personally been an avid viewer 17 and participant of its programs. Koreans with an 18 English barrier, in general, and Korean seniors in 19 particular, love the Korean TV program. It is very 20 much in need and in many cases it is their only channel 21 of communication and maybe their only audio-visual 22 source of information and entertainment on a regular 23 basis. The channel broadcasts the news, transmits 24 debates, shares information on community events, shows 25 cultural programs and much more. StenoTran 417 1 1730 The many cultural programs provided 2 by the channel are broadcast all across Ontario. By 3 all means, please help our multicultural programs and 4 if at all possible expand them. As I said earlier, it 5 will make for a stronger community. 6 1731 The City of Toronto is the economic 7 and cultural engine of Canada. Multiculturalism should 8 remain a Canadian value. It should be enriched and the 9 ethnic TV and radio certainly have a major role to play 10 for the enhancement of Canadian society. I urge 11 members and appeal to you now to please keep our 12 programs and possibly expand them. 13 1732 My objective is to make sure that all 14 Canadians get top-quality programming. In order to 15 achieve this, it is important for all sectors of the 16 community to receive the same high standards. I 17 believe that the CRTC has done an excellent job in the 18 past in meeting this mandate. Please don't let the 19 standards deteriorate. 20 1733 Thank you very much. 21 1734 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much, 22 Mr. Cho, and your secret is safe with us, although I am 23 not sure that they are not going to notice that you are 24 missing. Thank you for being with us. 25 1735 MS RHÉAUME: The next speakers are Ms StenoTran 418 1 Irina Litchou and Corneliu Chisu of the Moldova 2 Community of Ontario. I am sorry, they are both Ms' 3 obviously. 4 1736 MS CHISU: No, there has been a 5 change. 6 1737 MS RHÉAUME: Could you identify your 7 parties, please. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 1738 MS CHISU: Instead of Corneliu Chisu 10 it will be my colleague Cecilia Kutas and together 10 11 minutes or less. 12 1739 Distinguished representatives of the 13 Commission, ladies and gentlemen. I will be brief. My 14 name is irina litchou and I have come to talk to you 15 about my experience of ethnocultural broadcasting. 16 1740 I am here as a representative of the 17 Moldovan community and as a produce of Moldova TV. The 18 Moldovan community in Canada is relatively new. The 19 country of Moldova separated from the USSR less than 10 20 years ago, but there are more than 100,000 of us in 21 ontario. Together with Romanians it is 250,000 all 22 over Canada. 23 1741 Moldova is a multicultural country. 24 The main languages spoken are Romanian and Russian. 25 1742 The show I produce has an even mix of StenoTran 419 1 both languages, Russian and Moldova -- Romanian and 2 Russian, so the audience we reach is much larger than 3 our immediate ethnic community. 4 1743 We get 27.5 minutes of broadcasting 5 time on Channel 10, Rogers, twice a month. This means 6 that we only reach about two-thirds of our community in 7 the Toronto area because this particular cable company 8 does not serve Thornhill, Scarborough and Richmond 9 Hill. 10 1744 We are attempting to get air time on 11 the local ethnic broadcasting station, but even when we 12 succeed we will not be able to reach our communities 13 all over Canada. 14 1745 When we started to produce the show 15 two and a half years ago, we got some support from the 16 cable company. We had access to editing equipment and 17 some studio time. That support has been completely 18 withdrawn. Our show is now self-produced. The cable 19 company expected to get the finished tape of the 20 program and runs it at the agreed time. 21 1746 When the cable company decided to 22 close all facilities to the ethnic program production, 23 our sister program, the Romanian program, had to close 24 down. We only hang on because we are so absolutely 25 committed to keeping this cultural link going. We are StenoTran 420 1 keeping the enthusiasm. 2 1747 We need more air time. We need 3 studio time. We need editing facilities, if it is 4 possible, but if not we have sponsors. We need 5 broadcasting access to the rest of our community. I 6 think I speak for other producers as well as myself 7 when I ask for support. 8 1748 The content of our show is largely 9 inside footage, so Canadian. After all, we produce -- 10 so, I feel very strongly -- I ask my colleague, Cecilia 11 Kutas to specifically answer some of the questions 12 posed in the CRTC's call for comments. 13 1749 MS KUTAS: Thank you, Irina. 14 1750 The show Irina produces is largely 15 Canadian content. It is produced here. They want to 16 do the work, but they feel very strongly that it is 17 necessary to have a lot of foreign footage. Foreign 18 footage makes the show more interesting and, by 19 definition, a third language broadcasting is going out 20 to people who are interested in things that are going 21 on outside of Canada, as well as getting acclimatized 22 to the system here. 23 1751 As Irina's example of her own 24 experience has shown, the CRTC's present ethnocultural 25 policies have done a great job. They have built up a StenoTran 421 1 system where a lot of communities have had the 2 opportunity to get in touch with their own people in 3 their language of comfort. However, what she finds and 4 we find as new broadcasters is that it is very hard to 5 get your foot in the door. 6 1752 So, what we would like to see is the 7 CRTC perhaps having a policy where they make it easier 8 somehow for the new people to get established because 9 as people are here longer, cultural communities are 10 here long they become stronger, they have more 11 contacts, they can do better for themselves. 12 1753 Also, the mandate that they have for 13 their productions changes because when the community is 14 new everybody who is coming, they are just trying to 15 become Canadian to get acclimatized to know how to do 16 things as we have heard very eloquently expressed by 17 several of the speakers before us. 18 1754 As the community becomes older it 19 becomes more important to keep the younger generation 20 in touch with their culture, and so the importance of 21 bringing in foreign footage increases. So, what we 22 would like to recommend is that there be some leniency 23 in definition of Canadian content. So, for instance, 24 if you had an ethnic host introducing foreign footage 25 that would go some way towards being considered StenoTran 422 1 Canadian content, or if you had foreign footage to 2 which you applied subtitles, Canadian subtitles here, 3 that would also go towards Canadian content because 4 doing that not only increases -- it builds bridges 5 towards other cultures because people might now decide 6 this is an interesting show since they can understand 7 what is going on because there are English subtitles. 8 1755 Finally, I cannot overemphasize the 9 importance of maintaining other venues of broadcasting. 10 For instance, the cable shows because these are where 11 the new broadcasters get their foot in the door and 12 they get experience and hopefully go on to other 13 production venues. 14 1756 As I said before, as the ethnic 15 community becomes more established and gets more links 16 and more connections, then probably they can reduce 17 their reliance on help from the CRTC rules, and so as a 18 last proposal we would like to suggest that the CRTC 19 should implement a policy whereby it helps the 20 fledgling ethnic broadcasters when they are starting to 21 take root and perhaps weans its support over time as 22 the community becomes larger and as the demographics 23 change other communities need the help to come out. 24 1757 Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you for 25 your attention and I hope that your deliberations will StenoTran 423 1 give us the support we seek. 2 1758 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 3 to both of you for being here. 4 1759 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 5 by Mr. Harry Chan. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 1760 MR. CHAN: Commissioners, ladies and 8 gentlemen, I am the President of TYBA Properties 9 Ontario Inc., a company that is dealing with land 10 development, especially in residential subdivisions. 11 Obviously, I am not in the broadcast industry. 12 1761 Like a lot of Chinese Canadians who 13 live in Metro, Markham and Mississauga, I am fortunate 14 to have access to the television programming that is 15 all Chinese and they are presented almost around the 16 clock, offered by Fairchild Television and complemented 17 by CFMT. This has created a very comfortable 18 environment to live in and i must thank the CRTC for 19 its vision in creating this environment and I surely 20 applaud Canada for its multiculturalism which makes 21 this country so unique and comfortable. 22 1762 While there are a lot of Chinese 23 Canadians like me which can switch from the mainstream 24 environment to the Chinese culture at ease, there are a 25 lot of them who can only rely on sources of daily news StenoTran 424 1 and information, especially those who are elderly, from 2 television stations that are provided in the Chinese 3 language. However, there are a lot of them who are 4 less fortunate due to geographic locality who don't 5 have these services, say for example the subdivision 6 that I am involved in in Whitby does not have this 7 service. 8 1763 As a layman, when we were doing the 9 promotion I do not know that the Chinese television 10 service is not broadcast in areas such as Whitby and in 11 Oakville. It is only when we were asked by buyers 12 about this type of facilities or services that I know 13 that it is not available. This prompted me to come 14 here to make this deposition. 15 1764 As a conclusion, among all the issues 16 the Commission will take into account during this 17 policy review, I request that the Commission will 18 consider whether or not the purpose of a licensed 19 service has been fully served. That is, the Commission 20 seriously look into the situation where a licensed 21 ethnic language service is not adequately delivered to 22 the community as the CRTC had intended, due to a lack 23 of cable capacity or a choice made by a cable company 24 to exclude that service. 25 1765 Lastly, I thank the Commission for StenoTran 425 1 allowing me the opportunity to provide my comments in 2 this hearing. 3 1766 Thank you. 4 1767 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 5 much, Mr. Chan, for being with us. 6 1768 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 7 by Mr. Mann Nacario. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 1769 MR. NACARIO: Commissioners, ladies 10 and gentlemen, good evening. My name is Mann Nacario. 11 1770 One objective that the Commission 12 aims to find in calling for these comments is the 13 importance of third language ethnic broadcast 14 programming. I would like to comment on this by 15 sharing with you my experiences as producer of 16 "Philippine Sundae," a weekly half-hour show, and the 17 only TV show for the Filipino community, produced in 18 and aired from Toronto over CFMT Channel 47, Cable 4. 19 1771 Let me start by recalling the 20 experiences of a friend from Southern Philippines, who 21 came to Toronto in 1972. This friend had to talk to 22 people from his own country in the English language. 23 Reason? Because he could not speak in "Pilipino," the 24 Tagalog-based national language of the Philippines. It 25 was not until after several years, and not until his StenoTran 426 1 marriage to his present wife and, by reason thereof had 2 the opportunity to intermingle with her family that 3 this friend learned to speak the national tongue. 4 1772 Another experience was that of a 5 Filipino woman who, before coming to Canada in 1988, 6 worked in Singapore. This woman, from Central 7 Philippines, confessed that it was in Singapore where 8 she learned to speak the national language. Had she 9 not, otherwise, she would continue to be at a loss 10 whenever she would join other Filipino expatriates 11 during their socializations in that country. 12 1773 These two experiences reflect 13 countless experiences by members of my community in the 14 past and the present times. This is because the 15 Philippines, as an archipelago, although with three 16 major island groups, is composed of so many islands 17 that even I have forgotten the exact number. Nearly 18 100 languages and dialects are spoken in the 19 Philippines. These languages and dialects are derived 20 from many sources. most of them are basically of 21 Austronesian or Malayo-Polynesian origin. Many have 22 also taken words from Sanskrit, Arabic, Chinese, 23 Spanish and English. The principal native languages 24 include Tagalog, Cebuano, Ilocano, Hiligaynon, 25 Waray-Waray, Bicol Pampango, Pangasinan, Maguindanao, StenoTran 427 1 Maranaw and Tausog. 2 1774 One good rationale for television is 3 to educate. And using "philippine Sundae' program as a 4 model, being the only TV program for the Filipino 5 community in Toronto, we, in the production staff, 6 strive to attain this, among other purposes that we 7 have set for the program. I must say that in this 8 objective we are succeeding, but only to a certain 9 extent. 10 1775 Under the program classification of 11 the CRTC, "philippine Sundae" is classified as falling 12 under Type D, defined as a program using a bilingual 13 mix of either French or English, plus a third language, 14 which in the case of my community is Tagalog. 15 1776 At the onset of the production of 16 "Philippine Sundae' in 1996, we were solely using 17 English. our reasoning then was that, with the dialect 18 barrier among Filipinos, it was better for us to use 19 English, a language that everybody understood. 20 however, we received numerous comments from the 21 community, saying that "Since 'Philippine Sundae' is 22 our only TV program for the community, we could help 23 educate others in speaking and understanding our 24 national dialect. Hence, in so doing, we could help 25 bridge the language gap among us Filipinos." StenoTran 428 1 1777 So, in accord with the sentiments of 2 our viewers, we reformatted "Philippine Sundae" to a 3 Type D program. 4 1778 It was not easy though, since we have 5 to change some people in the program for those who 6 could not speak and write the national dialect to those 7 who could write and speak it. This was to keep up with 8 the pulse of our target audience. To this end, I must 9 say that we are succeeding in the philosophy that we 10 have reset for the program. 11 1779 However, I said earlier too that this 12 success was only partial. Immediately, after we have 13 reformatted the TV show to conform to the composition 14 of our community, we figured in a slight problem with 15 our previous airing station, thus was forced to move to 16 our present station. This brings us to Item No. 7 in 17 the call for comments issued by the CRTC, stating and I 18 quote, "How should the policy framework for ethnic 19 broadcasting be adapted to account for, and respond to 20 future demographic changes?" 21 1780 Presently, there are only two TV 22 stations in Toronto that cater to ethnic broadcasting. 23 However, these stations have a mix of mainstream and 24 ethnic programs in their programming. With such mix, 25 however, and I am stressing that this is not meant as StenoTran 429 1 an attack to multicultural stations, both radio and TV, 2 but ethnic shows are relegated to unpopular slots. On 3 this, it is sad to say, that sometimes even I, as an 4 ethnic program producer, could only hope that someone 5 out there is watching the show. 6 1781 The assignment of ethnic programs to 7 unpopular slots also results to losses for us 8 producers; our advertisers are running away. And the 9 consequences of this need no longer be outlined here 10 for, as you know, advertisers are the bread and butter 11 of production endeavours. 12 1782 Taking my community as a model, the 13 1996 Statistics Canada figures show that Tagalog is the 14 seventh language largely spoken in Toronto. But as I 15 mentioned earlier, the Tagalog dialect is one of the 16 nearly 100 dialects spoken in the Philippines. This 17 means that the statistics did not reflect the dialects 18 spoken by Filipinos who came and reside in Toronto, 19 whose major tongues are other than English and Tagalog. 20 1783 Based on the same 1996 census, 21 figures show that in Metropolitan Toronto, Filipinos 22 are the fourth largest visible minority. An article in 23 the Saturday Star last January 23 projected that the 24 next year, visible minorities will represent 54 per 25 cent of the total makeup of Metro Toronto's population. StenoTran 430 1 With this in mind, it is very timely than ever that 2 this call for comments by the CRTC is heard at this 3 time, in its attempt to serve the needs and interests 4 of our diverse groups. 5 1784 As the CRTC itself stated in its call 6 for comments and I quote, "For some ethnocultural 7 communities, market forces may be sufficient to ensure 8 that their interests are adequately served. At the 9 same time, some policy framework may still be necessary 10 to provide for other ethnocultural communities." 11 1785 In view of the foregoing, and again 12 taking my community and our only TV program as models, 13 I humbly submit that, in recap, the following be taken 14 into consideration by the CRTC in its Policy Review on 15 Third language and Ethnic Programming: 16 1786 Number one, radio and television 17 stations which offer mix programming be required to 18 allot a portion of all times that are considered as TV 19 prime time to ethnic programming. 20 1787 Number two, to require radio and TV 21 stations to occasionally plug their ethnic programs 22 aimed at helping the marketing efforts of independent 23 ethnic TV producers. 24 1788 Thank you so much for the opportunity 25 of being heard, with an end in view of assisting you in StenoTran 431 1 your policy review. 2 1789 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. Nacario. 4 1790 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 5 by Mr. Ace Alvarez of the Manila Media Monitor. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 1791 MR. ALVAREZ: Thank you so much, 8 Commissioners. 9 1792 My name is Ace Alvarez and i am the 10 editor of Manila Media Monitor, a monthly paper aimed 11 at the Filipino community and I am also the news writer 12 for "Philippine Sundae," the only television show for 13 my community, I mean that's in Toronto. 14 1793 This means that I am engaged both in 15 print and broadcast journalism and my boss in the 16 broadcast media was the speaker ahead of me, Mr. Mann 17 Nacario, so I must be careful with what I say here, 18 otherwise I am fired. 19 1794 I am here today to share with you my 20 thoughts for consideration in your policy review. In 21 the several years that I have lived in Toronto, I have 22 continually monitored ethnic broadcast programs aimed 23 at my community. it's sad to note, however, that in 24 some programs, past and present, and that's the key 25 word, man, the contents were, and are, lacking of depth StenoTran 432 1 relative to the generally accepted philosophy of 2 broadcasting. 3 1795 Using some of the past and present 4 programs aimed at my community as models, in most cases 5 the excuse for being tagged as a Filipino program is 6 the music that were and are played in the program. i 7 say this without undermining the value of Filipino 8 music. But what I am saying is that since it is 9 difficult to get time slots for ethnic programs from 10 stations that accommodate them, i am suggesting that 11 content be spent more on developmental and more 12 informative issues that affect the particular community 13 that the program is aimed at. 14 1796 Likewise, taking again broadcast 15 programs aimed at my community as models, I have 16 noticed that most programs really stopped to the level 17 of an exclusive public relations vehicle for their 18 advertisers, unmindful of fairness and equity surround 19 an issue. I find no blame though for our broadcasters, 20 since, with limited advertisers, and considering the 21 difficulty of finding them, their advertisers are the 22 ones sustaining the programs. I must admit, though, 23 that in my own paper this also happens and i must admit 24 that I am guilty of the same journalistic violation. 25 1797 Of course, the CRTC does not notice StenoTran 433 1 this because, in most cases, programs use the language 2 of their particular target audience or a mix with 3 English. Our ethnic broadcasters are able to get away 4 from this because of the absence of a group who 5 understands the language used to police ethnic 6 programs. 7 1798 In view of the above, I am 8 recommending that the CRTC spearhead the formulation of 9 a group composed of respected members from each 10 particular community to serve as something like an 11 ombudsman. This group will occasionally monitor and 12 police particular programs with pertinence to CRTC 13 rules and regulations applicable on specific instances, 14 and/or that may be drafted and implemented by the CRTC 15 in the future. The group may also serve as a 16 resolution body on complaints that may be addressed 17 relative to particular programs. 18 1799 If this is done it will help upgrade 19 to the highest standards or meet the highest standards 20 and quality programming of ethnic broadcasting. 21 1800 Thank you so much for the opportunity 22 to share with you my thoughts. 23 1801 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 24 much, Mr. Alvarez. 25 1802 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation StenoTran 434 1 will be by Ms Anna Bailao on behalf of Mr. Mario Silva 2 who is a Councillor and for the Portuguese Association 3 of the University of Toronto. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 1803 MR. SILVA: Can I get that title 6 right. Actually, I am Councillor Mario Silva from the 7 City of Toronto. Although sometimes I feel I am 8 counselling people, I am a City Councillor and I 9 represent Trinity Niagara, which is Ward 20. It's a 10 downtown west end ward. It's one of the few wards in 11 the City of Toronto where English speaking does not 12 make up the majority of the constituents that I 13 represent. 14 1804 I have represented this ward for the 15 past four years and had the pleasure of working with 16 various multicultural groups. It is predominantly -- 17 the community is made up of -- about 40 per cent of the 18 people are Portuguese speaking, which is what my 19 background is as well. We have as well a large 20 Chinese, Vietnamese, and at one time a very large 21 Jewish and Italian community, but that is no longer the 22 case any more, but certainly large communities at one 23 time, but it still has some of its history and flavour. 24 1805 Some of the areas you probably might 25 be familiar with would be areas like Little Italy, for StenoTran 435 1 example, where Sophia Loren just had lunch yesterday. 2 So it's a very popular place to go out and dine in the 3 City of Toronto. It's rich in its history, its culture 4 and multiculturalism plays an important role. 5 1806 It is also the ward that has two very 6 important multicultural radio stations and a very 7 important multicultural television station. It has the 8 CHIN Radio which, of course, everybody is quite 9 familiar with and the amount of work it has done over 10 the years in promotion of the various cultural groups 11 in our city, and also CIRV-FM which is another 12 multi-cultural radio station that is also within the 13 ward. 14 1807 In addition to that, in the Lakeshore 15 side, which is also part of my ward, there is 16 multilculture television, MTV, Channel 47, which you 17 know broadcasts in different languages. 18 1808 I am here, and I don't have any 19 prepared text, but I am here basically to lend my 20 support to the fact of the importance that 21 multicultural television, radio, the information that 22 is provided to the various communities. It is so 23 essential at times to get those messages out to those 24 communities in the languages they understand. 25 1809 We, at the City of Toronto, know that StenoTran 436 1 Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in 2 North America and have been able to provide information 3 over the years in many different languages. I think it 4 is because we realize that the multicultural 5 communities play a very important role in the dynamics 6 of our city and what makes Toronto, according to 7 Fortune magazine as one of the greatest cities in the 8 world to live in. It is because of the richness of our 9 cultures, our diversity and how well it works together. 10 1810 The reason it works together in part 11 has to do with the role also the media plays in 12 informing people. One of the ways we get our messages 13 across is in those various languages. The one way that 14 people understand and are able to get informed and feel 15 part of the system of what is happening in municipal 16 government and, in fact, all levels of government. So, 17 I cannot emphasize enough the important role that the 18 multicultural radio stations, which are so much a part 19 of our heritage, that is as a Canadian because at the 20 end of the day we are talking about what Canada is. 21 Canada is by its Constitution a multicultural society. 22 We have to always understand that when we are talking 23 about the multicultural communities we really are 24 talking about our Canadian heritage and I think that is 25 so important. StenoTran 437 1 1811 The important role that these 2 particular stations have played and, of course, I don't 3 want to neglect as well the print media and I realize 4 we are not here to discuss that. That's also another 5 important component of how they get that information 6 out to the various communities and making sure that 7 they are aware of what is happening at city hall. 8 1812 It is incredible, it has a profound 9 effect on our decision-making because we know that the 10 communities are listening there in the various 11 languages and they do pick up the message and they do 12 call their councillors and want to know what is going 13 on and everything else and get clarification. 14 1813 So, especially in the City of 15 Toronto, the information that has been broadcast in 16 different languages have been immeasurable and I think 17 it really makes a difference when we talk about 18 Toronto, the great liveable city. I would attribute a 19 large part of that having to do with the fact that they 20 are informed, they are aware, they are participating, 21 they realize that this is their city. 22 1814 So, I would certainly like to 23 congratulate the CRTC for having that vision, that 24 understanding of the importance of providing 25 programming in those languages and want to encourage StenoTran 438 1 the CRTC to keep up with that mandate because I think 2 it is so important to making things work for our city 3 and for our country. 4 1815 I am here as well if anybody has any 5 questions as well to answer, but in the short time 6 because I have to go back to Council, but just to let 7 you know of my support for the different communities. 8 1816 I have as well somebody who works -- 9 Anna Bailao, by the way, is my special assistant in my 10 office. She was the former President of the University 11 of Toronto portuguese Association, which I was also at 12 one time the President. I was also the director at one 13 time of University College, University of Toronto, so I 14 have always kept busy with both my cultural community, 15 but was also very active in my university life with all 16 the different -- whether it was a newspaper, student 17 council, and I think those are important. 18 1817 Also, Monica as well is here from the 19 Association as well, just to lend I think our support 20 to the policy of the CRTC which I think was the right 21 policy at this time and how we should be preserving 22 that particular policy. 23 1818 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, 24 Councillor Silva. We appreciate the presence of all of 25 you and the significance. Councillor Silva, you StenoTran 439 1 weren't here when I said that we wouldn't be asking any 2 questions today because we have such a full agenda. 3 1819 But one of the things we have been 4 talking a lot about is the issue of language. I just 5 wanted to point out that the use of the word 6 "councillor" for you in particular, even though it is 7 spelled incorrectly, is not so much a spelling mistake 8 as it is an issue of language. You might be interested 9 to know that in French Commissioners are also know as 10 "le conseiller". 11 1820 So, it's probably more an issue of 12 language. It's an example of multiculturalism at work. 13 1821 MR. SILVA: Voila. 14 1822 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for being 15 with us. 16 1823 MR. SILVA: I also note that I am the 17 only Councillor on the French Committee of the City of 18 Toronto and also the only one who speaks French in our 19 city. 20 1824 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good. So you 21 understood that word. 22 1825 MR. SILVA: Toujours. Merci. 23 1826 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 24 much. 25 1827 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presenter is StenoTran 440 1 Chris Martzokas of the Hellenic National Congress. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 1828 MR. MARTZOKAS: Madam Chairman, my 4 name is Chris martzokas and I am a member of the 5 National Council of the Hellenic Canadian Congress. 6 1829 Our organization oversees the affairs 7 of 350,000 Greeks in this great land. I am here today, 8 and I will be very brief, to address the three issues 9 you have given us to examine. The first issue is to 10 what extent the present broadcasting system serves the 11 ethnocultural class of Canada. 12 1830 It is really iron, but in the early 13 seventies when everybody was dreaming of 14 ethno-culturalism, the federal government sent some of 15 us on a voluntary basis, Mrs. Irene Chu, the lady 16 there, and some other people to the Polytechnic 17 Institute to learn broadcasting and go back and serve 18 our communities. That was the years when everybody was 19 dreaming. 20 1831 What happened 20 years later? What 21 happened to all these policies? Let me tell you. Our 22 first access in broadcasting was community channels. 23 It was the cable station offered to the communities. 24 This channel eventually dried out. It went to the grey 25 area, the same as commercialism there. So a lot of StenoTran 441 1 communities lost the access in this avenue. 2 1832 Then, we have the multicultural 3 channel which was a wonderful thing, but eventually 4 what we find out was money, the profit, if you weren't 5 marketable you didn't have a voice, you couldn't 6 address your people. 7 1833 So, I would say in the short form 8 whatever you have was serving our communities in the 9 past but not any more. We have to look for new 10 avenues. 11 1834 The second question is about the 12 demographics. I would like to assure you that not all 13 the Greeks live in the Danforth or Park Street in 14 Montreal. We moved. We have people in Alberta. We 15 have farmers, in all industries. We have miners in 16 Quebec. We have loggers in British Columbia and these 17 people would like to have some access to ethnic 18 broadcasting. 19 1835 The last and the most important 20 issue, I would like to start from the bottom, I would 21 say that language accounts for -- it's not a static 22 thing. It evolves. So there is a need for us to touch 23 base with the point of origin, to follow up the 24 evolution of the culture and from where it came from. 25 1836 So, some important services won't be StenoTran 442 1 harmed if it is regulated by the CRTC. One thing we 2 don't want to see is direct broadcasting from foreign 3 lands to ethnocultural groups. We want to see whatever 4 comes from overseas comes down, is given to a Canadian 5 provider and have Canadian content and all the money 6 comes and the proceeds from the advertising stay in 7 Canada, be taxed in Canada and help then produce 8 Canadian programs and integrate one package which is 9 going to be good for us -- to all of us. 10 1837 The other thing which is a little bit 11 difficult to explain, let's not forget broadcasting for 12 a lot of us is language, culture and entertainment, but 13 to some people it's power and money. We, the 14 communities, we don't like this power to be 15 concentrated in the hands of a few and we want the 16 community to be close to those things, not to be far 17 away because we feel we are losing it. The small 18 communities have no way to communicate. 19 1838 This is the message we bring to you 20 today. We are not afraid -- nobody can stop technology 21 from coming to us. We must be able to regulate it. 22 1839 We go to the foreign lands and you 23 must be aware that we hear foreign broadcasts through 24 the Internet, on the radio, and God knows in three or 25 four years' time maybe we see foreign television, but StenoTran 443 1 doing that your role is going to be obsolete. You 2 cannot control it. So, this issue today here is you 3 have to deliver something new. Like the Greek 4 community is 350,000 people and many communities are 5 large. They cannot be accommodated with two hours of 6 programming a week. 7 1840 Our organization, the National 8 Congress, needs to have a voice, a co-ordinated voice. 9 So, I think these special channels, we care if you 10 monitor them, but I think it is partially the answer to 11 our problem or to our future in broadcasting. 12 1841 Thank you very much. 13 1842 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 14 much, Mr. Martzokas. 15 1843 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 16 by Mr. Freddy Fenech of the Lehan Malti Television 17 Program. 18 1844 MR. ATTARD: Sorry, it is not Freddy 19 Fenech. It is Frank Attard. Freddy Fenech is my 20 co-producer. 21 1845 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 22 1846 MR. ATTARD: Unfortunately, he is not 23 here. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 1847 MR. ATTARD: Jien u I-kollega shabi StenoTran 444 1 tal-program etniku 'Lehen Malti' qed naghmlu din 2 il-prezentazzjoni quddiemkhom dwar il-programmi 3 televissivi u tar-radio entici li huma mportanti ghall 4 komunatijiet etnici mdawrin madwar il-provincja ta' 5 Ontario. 6 1848 My name is Frank Attard, co-producer 7 of the Maltese TV program "Lehen Malti" which is shown 8 weekly on CFMT Multilingual TV station, Channel 47, 9 every Saturday morning at 9:30 a.m. and repeated on 10 Sundays at 6;30 a.m.. With me I have my colleague, 11 Mrs. Marlene Muscat, newscaster. 12 1849 In my opening statement in my native 13 tongue Maltese, today my colleagues and I are making 14 this presentation before you about ethnic TV and radio 15 programs that are very important for the ethnic 16 communities in Ontario. 17 1850 Thirty thousand Maltese people live 18 around Ontario with the majority living in Toronto and 19 surrounding areas. Another 10,000 live in the rest of 20 Canada. 21 1851 We have been doing this program for 22 the past 26 years, first at Channel 10 Community TV 23 station, which only served part of the west end area of 24 Toronto, and for the past 10 years at CFMT Multilingual 25 TV Station, Channel 47. We are very grateful that CFMT StenoTran 445 1 gave us the air time, although the Maltese community is 2 very small compared to other ethnic communities in 3 Ontario. We do this program voluntarily, no income, 4 but service to the Maltese community. You know what it 5 takes to produce a half hour TV program, and although 6 we have no resources except from a Maltese MID-MED Bank 7 which we are grateful to, who pays for the production 8 time. 9 1852 You might ask why do we do this 10 program voluntarily, because we know that the Maltese 11 community needs and deserves a TV program which keeps 12 them informed of what is happening in Malta and around 13 the Maltese community in Ontario. 14 1853 Although most maltese people 15 understand and speak the English language, they feel 16 more comfortable listening and speaking their own 17 language and we are sure that other ethnic communities 18 feel the same way. 19 1854 To our knowledge, there are only two 20 TV stations in ontario that service the ethnic 21 communities, namely CFMT and Fairchild Television. 22 There are radio stations like CHIN-FM who serve the 23 ethnic communities. The CRTC has attained a 24 satisfactory degree of effectiveness in servicing the 25 cultural and linguistic diversity in Canada. StenoTran 446 1 1855 We think it is essential for the 2 Commission to look towards improvements in having more 3 ethnic TV and radio air time. Canada is a 4 multicultural country and it is very essential that our 5 children watch and learn more about their parents' home 6 country. 7 1856 Thank you. 8 1857 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 9 much, Mr. Attard. 10 1858 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation 11 will be by Dr. Dragi Denkovski, Dragica Belchevski and 12 Nikola Belchevski of the Macedonian radio program. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 1859 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Dr. Dragi 15 Denkovski is not here, but I think he will be coming 16 later on, a little bit. He probably had a bad tooth 17 that somebody had. 18 1860 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is he a dentist? 19 1861 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Yes. 20 1862 MS D. BELCHEVSKI: Ladies and 21 gentlemen, good evening. I will start, but my English 22 is not so good, but what I am going to say I am going 23 to say with all my heart. 24 1863 This year the Macedonian radio 25 program Voice of Macedonia, which is on the CHIN StenoTran 447 1 station, is celebrating its 30th birthday. To be at 2 CHIN station really I am so proud to be with Mr. Johnny 3 Lombardi who is going to be I am sure in the history 4 for all ethnic programs at the CHIN station. 5 1864 I would like to thank him, the CHIN 6 family and even as a father to the CHIN family and even 7 to Canada who helps us -- who gives us the opportunity 8 to expose our heritage, our tradition, our history of 9 all ethnic programs. Maybe that's why we call Canada 10 the champion of democracy. 11 1865 In my program I have more than 12 100,000 Macedonian listeners and even other people who 13 understand the Macedonian language, Slavic people. The 14 Macedonian program, Voice of Macedonia, is not just for 15 Macedonians. It is for other ethnic groups, even who 16 understand how I say the Macedonian language, but I 17 have a youth program for the youth people, for a new 18 generation who are born here. That is an informatic 19 program, a program for kids giving like health, 20 alternative medicine, history and the other things, but 21 especially I am proud to say the most popular is when I 22 am raising money, especially for sick people, churches 23 or even for the Sick Children's Hospital. 24 1866 I am going to say that four years ago 25 I raised for four Macedonian churches I raised $110,000 StenoTran 448 1 and I said for four churches, in five programs of about 2 15 to 20 minutes. I am really proud of my people, not 3 just Macedonians I said, but other people who are 4 helping. 5 1867 I am proud of Suzana Kazakouvka who 6 had cancer. In that five programs for 15 or 20 minutes 7 and each program I raised $35,000 and for Sick 8 Children's Hospital I raised for three days almost 9 $5,000. That's why I am going to say this program is a 10 help to the people, not just to expose our Macedonian 11 heritage. 12 1868 The Macedonian people are proud to 13 listen to his program because they know Macedonia is 14 far away, but to listen and to hear up-to-date all the 15 activities and everything. When I start I start always 16 with the meaning of a Macedonia hero who said, "I 17 understand the word as a field of cultural competition 18 around the whole people in the world," and even I think 19 the same way. I mean he is dead. He was killed in 20 1903, but my goal is to continue helping everybody, 21 even my community, because in front of God we say we 22 have just good and bad persons. 23 1869 Again, I will say because Macedonia 24 is far away, this is our new motherland. Canada is 25 everything that we have. That's why we have to be StenoTran 449 1 loyal, to build a better Canada for her future, even 2 for her citizens. Thanks to Canada. Even thanks to 3 Mr. Lombardi and the CHIN family. 4 1870 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms 5 Belchevski. In spite of the fact that you think you 6 may not speak English very well, I heard your message 7 loud and clear. 8 1871 MS D. BELCHEVSKI: Thank you. 9 1872 THE CHAIRPERSON: It was very 10 passionately put. Thank you. 11 1873 MS D. BELCHEVSKI: I said that is 12 from my heart. 13 1874 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. 14 1875 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Dr. Denkovski is 15 here. Would you like to hear him first? 16 1876 THE CHAIRPERSON: It is really up to 17 you. 18 1877 He said he thought you were late 19 maybe because you had a toothache. So, how's your 20 tooth? 21 1878 DR. DENKOVSKI: (Inaudible) 22 1879 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Maybe I should 23 say a few words until he is ready. 24 1880 My name is Nikola Belchevski. I am 25 the husband of Dragica and I will try to speak a little StenoTran 450 1 better in the way of pronouncing the words a little 2 better, not that I could speak better than her. I am 3 sure she has better thoughts most of the time because 4 she is on the air most of the time. I am a co-producer 5 and I help my wife. 6 1881 I am an artist by profession. I am a 7 sculptor and I would like to mention that when I came 8 here I was 18 years old. I couldn't say one word in 9 English. I arrived in Montreal and I remember I asked 10 somebody what time it is and that was the only thing I 11 knew how to say. This man answered me and I didn't 12 know what he said, but at least I was happy that he 13 answered something, so he understood those few words. 14 1882 Anyway, I would like to say that we 15 have a program that is on CHIN Radio from 7:30 to 8:00 16 p.m. Monday to Friday on 1540 AM and on 100.7 FM, with 17 a big family that I believe, as she mentioned, that Mr. 18 Lombardi is the true father and I was very happy to 19 meet this man and find out how much he cares, not for 20 the Italians, but also for the rest of the community 21 and all the languages. 22 1883 I didn't know there were other 23 stations and everybody is doing a good job. I don't 24 know if anybody can beat Mr. Lombardi. 25 1884 Anyway, our program -- I wrote a few StenoTran 451 1 words and so maybe I should read them. Ethnic-language 2 programs offer invaluable information services or 3 political exchanges and cultural and artistic 4 presentations to communities that broadcast in one of 5 the official languages simply cannot access. 6 1885 The reason is straightforward. If 7 one does not understand English or French, then one is 8 left out. A very important aspect of ethnic-language 9 programming is that it assists members of a specific 10 community gain an understanding of the larger Canadian 11 society. 12 1886 Young children who arrive in Canada 13 quickly learn, as we all know, to communicate in 14 English or French. However, many people who come to 15 this country as adults simply do not have the same 16 opportunity or aptitude for learning new languages. 17 That process is often slow and frustrating. This is 18 especially where ethnic language programming is 19 significant. 20 1887 It is through programs such as Voice 21 of Macedonia on CHIN that many thousands have become 22 familiar with Canadian customs and values. Ethnic 23 programs are the window through which new Canadians are 24 exposed to the Canadian way of life in a language they 25 can understand. StenoTran 452 1 1888 Political figures are well aware of 2 this. In fact, they often participate in this program 3 and sometimes they are our guests. 4 1889 Ethnic-language programs fill a niche 5 or a gap. They reach out to the groups of people that 6 would otherwise be omitted from the social discourse. 7 They serve as a traditional buffer for many on the road 8 to becoming well-established Canadians. 9 1890 I could cite an abundance of specific 10 examples, but I believe the point is self-evident. 11 Ethnic-language programs are the key stepping stones on 12 the Canadian journey. They soften the transition and 13 accelerate the Canadianization, and I don't know how 14 you say this word, as new or chosen Canadians -- of the 15 newest members. In other words, I should say that the 16 process is much softer when they hear their language on 17 the radio. 18 1891 I myself came to Canada as an 19 immigrant when I was 18 years old, as I mentioned. I 20 couldn't say any words, but I learned. I went to the 21 Art College here and I went back and I studied a little 22 bit and I came back and I raised my family and I am 23 very proud and I believe without all this programming I 24 believe that Canada is doing a wonderful thing. I 25 really don't know the reason why we are all here. StenoTran 453 1 There is some kind of hidden agenda, I don't know why 2 we are all here. I never find out really. 3 1892 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you mean here at 4 this consultation or here on this earth? 5 1893 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: No, here at this 6 consultation. On this earth I don't know. There must 7 be a reason. 8 1894 But I believe whatever is the reason 9 that I am happy to speak on behalf of my people and I 10 don't often speak on the radio, as my wife does most of 11 the time, she talks. I want to say -- and that's why 12 she -- Dr. Denkovski mentioned that she does most of 13 the time in Macedonian and she does in English too, but 14 as you have all heard is not -- 15 1895 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'd stop there if I 16 was you. 17 1896 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Yes, that's it. 18 1897 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I think I am 19 beginning to understand how that nose got broken. 20 1898 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: That's it, yes. 21 1899 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'd be very 22 careful. 23 1900 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Am I one of the 24 best or I should say the funniest speaker here? 25 1901 I would like to continue a little bit StenoTran 454 1 and be more serious. Our reflection of history and 2 religion of the Macedonian people and the language, the 3 folklore, the customs, the traditions of our people is 4 supported by the freedom of expression that Macedonians 5 enjoy in Canada. We have become good citizens of this 6 wonderful country of ours. 7 1902 Many of us were born here as 8 Canadians. Also many came to Canada as chosen 9 immigrants who have contributed tremendously to the 10 prosperity and the wealth of this great country. 11 1903 I would like to end it right there 12 and thank everybody. I have a few more words. To 13 withdraw ethnic-language programming it might well 14 result in the Balkanization, as we all know, of the 15 communities. 16 1904 I strongly believe that such 17 programming helps to build bridges among the various 18 ethnic groups or ethnic communities and is perhaps the 19 most important bridge between those communities and the 20 larger Canadian family. Ethnic-language programming is 21 the right way and I really and truly believe in this 22 and I should say I wouldn't be here if Mr. Lombardi, 23 this guy who is also very funny and a smart man, who 24 has done and given me this opportunity and also to 25 thank Canada for having -- and that's why Canada is StenoTran 455 1 rich. Because we all come from many different parts 2 and join together. As Macedonians say, we join the 3 Macedonian oro and oro is a circle and everybody dance. 4 So, it's nice to keep this circle together and let life 5 continue. 6 1905 Thank you. 7 1906 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. 8 Belchevski. 9 1907 Just in quick response to your 10 comment about the hidden agenda. If there is one, it's 11 so well hidden that I am not aware of it. I think we 12 are just here to hear what you have to say and take 13 this all back and try and make some sense out of it. 14 1908 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: I didn't mean it 15 in a bad way. 16 1909 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's good. I 17 just wanted to make sure. 18 1910 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: Thank you. 19 1911 THE CHAIRPERSON: Dr. Denkovski, I 20 don't know if each of you thought you were going to 21 have 10 minutes, but we do have a very full agenda, so 22 I would encourage you to be as succinct as possible. 23 1912 DR. DENKOVSKI: I heard that you get 24 really upset if somebody speaks too much and Nikola did 25 a little bit more. StenoTran 456 1 1913 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: I'm leaving. 2 1914 DR. DENKOVSKI: But I am going to be 3 short. 4 1915 Honourable members of the Canadian 5 Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, I 6 am very pleased to be able to talk on this occasion of 7 the reviewing of the ethnic broadcasting policy which 8 was established in 1985, and CHIN Radio and CFMT-TV 9 have done really a lot to our community and to all the 10 ethnic communities in this country. 11 1916 These programs, which are in our own 12 languages, particular Dragica's program in Macedonian, 13 has done a lot and a great contribution to our 14 community. I am the President for the second time in 15 our biggest church, St. Clement, and also the President 16 of the Academic Society, and I was for about 10 years 17 President of the Athletic Club of Macedonia which was 18 really quite successful, and I know how much this 19 program meant to our community, to our children, to our 20 parents especially. 21 1917 I know my mother at 7:30 she is 22 always by the radio. I have been a few times to a few 23 doughnut shops, drinking coffee and talking politics 24 and 7:30 everybody goes out in the car to hear what 25 Dragica is going to say. Really, that amazed me a lot StenoTran 457 1 when I saw all the Macedonians at 7:30 going out to 2 their car to hear Dragica, to hear the news from the 3 old country, to hear the news from our community, from 4 our church, from our various organizations. This 5 program is very essential to our community, but not 6 only to our community but to every community that I 7 know, whether it is Greek or Serbian or Ukrainian or 8 Croatian or any that I know this program is watched and 9 listened to a lot, especially for the elderly people 10 and people that don't speak much Macedonian and it 11 helps the new immigrants also to cope better with the 12 Canadian way of life, to become better and more loyal 13 citizens of this country, of this great country. 14 1918 It helps a lot to maintain our 15 language, our culture and in contributing a lot to the 16 multiethnic cultural mosaic of this great country of 17 Canada which is unique in the world. I think this 18 program must continue really. These are very essential 19 and very important programs that the CRTC is doing and 20 should continue for a long time. 21 1919 Thank you very much. 22 1920 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 23 much. 24 1921 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: May I say just 25 one more thing? I just remembered because I forgot and StenoTran 458 1 Dr. Denkovski reminded me. 2 1922 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have one 3 minute. 4 1923 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: I forgot to 5 mention because I was flipping papers here, is this the 6 place where you ask for more time or should I say it to 7 Mr. Lombardi? 8 1924 THE CHAIRPERSON: You should probably 9 to Mr. Lombardi. This is not the place where you ask 10 for more time. 11 1925 MR. N. BELCHEVSKI: We do have half 12 an hour, but we are very happy that we are every day 13 except Sunday -- I mean except Saturday. I forgot to 14 mention it is Monday to Friday and also on Sunday, but 15 only a half an hour. So, I know if I win the lottery I 16 might get more time. 17 1926 Thank you. 18 1927 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thanks 19 for being with us. 20 1928 Madam Secretary. 21 1929 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 22 Mr. Pab Di-lulio of the Columbus Centre. 23 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 24 1930 MR. DI-LULIO: Hello, Madam Chair, 25 Commissioners. Good evening. Thank you very much for StenoTran 459 1 this opportunity. 2 1931 In the past 10 or 15 years I have 3 written many letters to your Commission, generally 4 supporting third-language broadcasting and some of the 5 individual applicants. I thought I had 10 extra 6 minutes today to come down and see what actually 7 happens at a CRTC meeting and so here's where I am. 8 1932 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is it exciting? 9 1933 MR. DI-LULIO: It is terribly 10 exciting and this man should also ask for more money, 11 not just more air time. 12 1934 I am here as the Executive Director 13 of something called the Villa Charities. It's a 14 charitable non-profit organization in Toronto, 15 generally located at Dufferin and Lawrence. It's an 16 umbrella group that over the past 25 years has 17 developed and oversees and operates Villa Colombo Home 18 for the Aged. Approximately 400 people live there in a 19 home for the aged. Many thousands of people are there 20 for all kinds of senior services. 21 1935 We have two highrise apartment 22 buildings, Casa del Zoto and Caboto Terrace. 23 Approximately 600 people live in these apartment 24 buildings. The average age in both the home and the 25 apartment buildings is somewhere between 75 and 90, StenoTran 460 1 that's the average age and, of course, the median 2 language is some form of Italian. 3 1936 As well, there is Columbus Centre 4 which is a social, cultural and recreational centre 5 with an art gallery. We try to showcase, be a bridge, 6 be a piazza and share whatever we have that is good to 7 offer to multicultural Metropolitan Toronto. As well, 8 we have something called Vita Community Living 9 Services, whereby we look after on a 24-hour basis over 10 200 people in our group homes and our day programs for 11 developmentally handicapped adults. 12 1937 Now, I mention this, as well as 13 saying that we have large budgets and we have about 500 14 employees, not to try to impress you, but because the 15 particular group of which I am part of, that is the 16 Italian-Canadian community, is somewhere between the 17 last pioneer group and the first immigrant group in 18 Toronto in terms of size, in terms of some of the 19 established organizations that it has and the 20 infrastructures. 21 1938 But I am also here because I think in 22 our particular case our group is as much as, in a 23 sense, what third language ethnic broadcasting has been 24 and here's what I mean. When we started off int he 25 early seventies we had some wonderful people, good StenoTran 461 1 intentions, great ideas, but we soon realized that all 2 of that was for naught unless we were able to 3 communicate and share these ideas, these dreams, these 4 visions with literally a half a million people of 5 Italian origin who were out there and who then spoke a 6 lot less English than they may do now. 7 1939 We were able to probably on one 8 occasion when all the stars aligned, we were able to 9 get four or five of the major media players and have a 10 telethon. Now, a telethon in Italian, whereby you had 11 the likes of the original CFMT, you had the likes of 12 CityTV, you had the likes of Masha and Channel 11 13 ethnic language broadcasting and CHIN and you align all 14 of these people together. I think in almost one fell 15 swoop we were able to get the confidence of the 16 community that led us to the successes of which I have 17 spoken to you about. 18 1940 Since then it is almost a daily, 19 continual discussion that we have through this media 20 with our community that allows us to be and to frankly 21 grow over the past 25 years. So, I am here to say that 22 it is important, it works and I guess to some degree we 23 are living proof that the partners in this great 24 adventure that we call community and the word 25 "community" will be used many, many times in this room StenoTran 462 1 and we all mean different things by that, but whatever 2 we mean, I can tell you that in our case whatever you 3 know to be the Italian-Canadian community has been 4 affected and has been moulded by the media and the 5 media has allowed the particular organization that I am 6 the Executive Director of to be successful. 7 1941 So, I believe that on a very personal 8 note I can tell you that my mother and father rely on 9 CFMT, CHIN Radio on a daily basis. It's their heart 10 and soul. It's their lifeline to the greater world 11 that is Canada and somehow these stations interpret, 12 give them this window of opportunity that otherwise 13 they would be shut out of. 14 1942 I am sorry, my mother isn't quite 15 ready for prime time CBC in the morning. It's nice. I 16 listen to it. There is a gradual growth and a 17 progression and a changing of times, but for my mother, 18 my father and many others, brothers and sisters and 19 uncles out there, ethnic broadcasting is what keeps 20 them in touch, what keeps them knowledgeable, and by 21 that I don't necessarily I mean ethnic broadcasting 22 that is broadcast via an international satellite from 23 all over the world. That's nice, that's wonderful. I 24 am talking about third language local ethnic 25 broadcasting. That is what is inclusive. That is what StenoTran 463 1 is reflective of who we are and what we are becoming 2 and that's why I am here today, to speak in favour of 3 all of those things. 4 1943 I will stop here. Thank you for your 5 attention. 6 1944 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 7 much, Mr. De-lulio. I hope you enjoyed your experience 8 with the CRTC. 9 1945 MR. DI-LULIO: It was a lot less 10 threatening than I expected, but it's easier to write a 11 letter. 12 1946 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presenter is 13 Mr. Thomas S. Saras. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 1947 MR. SARAS: Thank you very much for 16 the opportunity to be with you here tonight. My name 17 is Thomas S. Saras and I am the editor-in-chief of a 18 national publication, in fact an international 19 publication with a circulation in the United States and 20 Canada from coast to coast, with experience in 21 broadcasting from the past. 22 1948 The reason I am here today is just to 23 express some concerns about not the policy of 24 multiculturalism or multicultural broadcasting, but the 25 way that it has been achieved from the various careers StenoTran 464 1 of those who are dedicating or making a fortune from 2 the policy. 3 1949 First of all, we are talking about 4 multicultural broadcasting. My community, it's the 5 Greek and the Greek/Macedonian community, about 120,000 6 people in the area of Metropolitan Toronto and we do 7 have through the CFMT, if I am not making a mistake, 8 two hours of broadcasting a week every Sunday, and from 9 those two hours only one hour is dedicated to the life 10 in the community in Canada. 11 1950 There is another half an hour program 12 through the so-called community channel, Channel 10, 13 Rogers, and that is supposed to be the communication 14 through the TV of the community, 125,000 members. 15 1951 There is also -- there are two cable 16 stations and they are broadcasting 24 hours to the best 17 of my knowledge. Now, the funny thing is I am 18 subscribing with Rogers for the last 35 years I am in 19 Canada. Every time I am trying to reach one of the 20 radio stations I am unable. I complained to them and 21 they told me the last time, a year ago, they told me 22 that I need to split something. I don't know from 23 those technical terminologies, so I told them please 24 come and do it. 25 1952 So, they sent someone. They put it StenoTran 465 1 there. They start charging me $5 for that thing. I 2 don't know exactly what it was, but I can assure you I 3 never was able to take or to cut any TV, any radio 4 broadcasting. So, after a year, waiting and waiting 5 that they are going to fix the problem, the problem 6 never has been fixed, I asked them to take away this 7 thing and save at least my $5. I understand Mr. Rogers 8 needs the dollars, but I need them as well. 9 1953 The other thing is, Mr. Rogers when 10 he bought CFMT, suppose that this channel is to serve 11 the ethnic communities. This was the original reason 12 for the creation of CFMT. Mr. Rogers took the channel 13 and eventually he made it 40 English, 60 ethnic and 14 probably he wants to make it 50/50. I know that in the 15 past he tried to do that. 16 1954 Then, because of the timing of those 17 programs he is cutting down everything and as a result 18 the Greek program, for example, was a one hour actual 19 broadcasting and it comes out to have one to three 20 young kids. They try through their own enthusiasm to 21 produce some programs. They don't pay anything to them 22 and they have one or two part-timers that are working 23 there. Just I am wondering, is this the meaning of the 24 multicultural ethnic broadcasting? Are we going to 25 have any broadcasters in the next generation or we are StenoTran 466 1 going to stop tomorrow because even if you adopt 2 today's policy, I don't think there should be any 3 enthusiasm to the next generations because no one is 4 going to be interested to do those things. This is one 5 aspect, one of the reasons I came to see you here. 6 1955 The other thing is Mr. Rogers usually 7 comes with the various buildings, the owners of the 8 building. I am not one of the rich Canadians. I am 9 poor. I am living -- renting. I am living in a 10 highrise apartment, so when I found out that he is not 11 giving me whatever I am expecting I asked them to stop, 12 to cut whatever, the service, and I will get something 13 through a satellite system. 14 1956 I have been told no way. This 15 building even if you don't want to get Rogers Cable 16 still you are going to pay. This is something that I 17 don't understand. Mr. Rogers has the monopoly through 18 the blessing of the CRTC. Now, the CRTC gave to Mr. 19 Rogers the ability to tax me $32 every month and he 20 doesn't even bother to ask me what exactly I am looking 21 for, what type of broadcast I want. 22 1957 He gives me two channels that are 23 talking about theology and I am not a theologian. He 24 gives me one channel, the Shopping Channel, and this is 25 bad for my daughter and my wife. He gives me -- StenoTran 467 1 1958 THE CHAIRPERSON: I don't know about 2 that. It's not bad for you? 3 1959 MR. SARAS: Yes, it is bad for me 4 because eventually over the $60 every second month to 5 Mr. Rogers I pay those bills too, and Mr. Rogers makes 6 more money through that. 7 1960 So the main philosophy is 8 multi-culturalism is multiculturalism and we try to 9 promote culture. Through the way the CRTC is giving 10 out those blessings some people are making millions of 11 dollars because they are using the sentiment of 12 culture. 13 1961 There are other problems also. For 14 example, my readers say that they are forced to pay the 15 cables too much money. They do not mind to pay for the 16 Greek channel, but they presently are paying for the 17 digital box and the basic English channels. Mr. Rogers 18 comes and says, if you want to get, yes, you are going 19 to pay $20 per month and then if you want to have 20 another additional you pay another $12 and if you are 21 going to have the Greek channel you are going to pay 22 another $22. 23 1962 In fact, in order to maintain my 24 culture I have to pay $100 to the carrier. I have 25 nothing against Mr. Rogers and please don't take me StenoTran 468 1 wrong. He is a fine man, believe me. I like him. He 2 is a smart man, but I do pay to maintain the culture or 3 to keep my mother happy, as my friend, the Slav 4 Macedonian said before, or somehow to communicate this 5 culture to my kids. 6 1963 What good is the basic English 7 purchase for the low-income Greek that can be done? He 8 did not understand English, but he has to pay this 9 thing. 10 1964 At the same time, for example, in my 11 channels I have the Italian channel. This is a 12 blessing from Mr. Rogers. I never asked for that, but 13 he said no, because we are a multicultural society you 14 have to learn Italian, so I will give you the Italian 15 channel and I have the Italian channel. 16 1965 Now, I am asking Mr. Rogers if I can 17 have the Greek specialty channel and Mr. Rogers says 18 no. Why? Because we don't have the lines. 19 1966 Now, my question is: How come they 20 can have two channels, Channel 8 to the best of my 21 knowledge and Channel 45, and this is all for -- one is 22 for Vision and the other one is CTS or whatever. 23 1967 There are some other channels. Why 24 do I have to pay to Mr. Rogers to watch the Toronto 25 Star channel? I am receiving the Toronto Star every StenoTran 469 1 morning. So I do have to go back and see also the 2 Toronto Star on Mr. Rogers. 3 1968 I have the CityTV and then we have 4 another channel for the CityTV. We have CFTO and then 5 we have another channel, Channel 17, and those are 6 all -- Mr. Rogers decided that those are good channels 7 for me, the subscriber. So, he gives me those channels 8 and there is not any way that I can get anything for my 9 own culture because he thinks that this is the way the 10 job should be done. This is the way multiculturalism 11 should be maintained in this country. 12 1969 There is another thing with those 13 grey channels, the ones coming into this country 14 illegally. They are coming into the country, they are 15 taking the ability from the local production to produce 16 something and because we don't have in fact something 17 locally serious, they can easily come down and sell 18 their own products with all those dishes and they are 19 bringing from the United States channels and so on. We 20 have people, Canadians, that because of this policy 21 they are going and they buy those dishes from the 22 United States and they are getting directly the 23 programs from there. 24 1970 The reason that I came today here was 25 just his one. For over a period of 30 years with Ms StenoTran 470 1 Ziniak, with her father, we gave great fights to 2 promote multiculturalism and its true meaning. As 3 everybody else said before, John is here. We believe 4 that the richness of this country is its 5 multi-culturalism, but please don't take this beautiful 6 flower of this society, don't give that as a gift to 7 the hands of the few that they are going to make their 8 own living easily and have the people suffering because 9 this is going to be eventually bad, proved bad, for the 10 CRTC, for Canada and for the ethnic communities. 11 1971 They feel that they are depressed and 12 oppression is everything that we try to avoid. Please, 13 in closing I want to make an appeal to you and I want 14 to know that your agency is going to make sure that the 15 specialty channels are going to have the opportunity to 16 reach the masses and not by paying $100 every month. 17 We cannot afford it. Not every Canadian can afford to 18 pay $20, $22 basic, $12 whatever plus and plus another 19 $50 to get the specialty channels because Mr. Rogers 20 wants more money. 21 1972 Mr. Rogers, or anyone else, is 22 getting the blessing from the Canadian government to 23 give this service. If he thinks that this one is too 24 much, then he can sell the company and someone else is 25 going to do it, or please stop the monopoly. This is a StenoTran 471 1 free market. It's a free society. Give that right to 2 someone else, so we can also as a multicultural society 3 we can come together and introduce another system and 4 have our products. 5 1973 Thank you very much. 6 1974 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 7 much, Mr. Saras. 8 1975 I think we will hear from one more 9 participant before we break for dinner. 10 1976 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 11 by Mr. Sham Chandrasekar of the Asian Television 12 Network. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 1977 MS J. CHANDRASEKAR: Madam 15 Chairperson and Commissioners, we are indeed pleased to 16 have this opportunity of appearing before you today. 17 My name is Jaya Chandrasekar and I am Vice-President of 18 Programming for Asian Television Network or ATN. 19 1978 I am accompanied by Sham 20 Chandrasekar, CEO and President of ATN and Prakash 21 Naidoo, Vice-President and General Manager of ATN, and 22 also by mr. Shanti Shah, legal counsel to ATN. 23 1979 In the short time we have, we would 24 like to direct our comments to address the very 25 pertinent and important questions and issues the StenoTran 472 1 Commission has raised under paragraph 29 of public 2 Notice 1998-135. 3 1980 The numbering of each one of our 4 comments corresponds with and is identical to the 5 numbering of the question it addresses. 6 1981 I shall not read the questions per 7 se, as the number prefacing the comment shall refer to 8 and identify the question in each case. 9 1982 The comments are as follows: 10 1983 29(1) The present broadcasting system 11 is not adequate, to the extent that it does not extend 12 unfettered access to specialty channels such as ATN to 13 access ethnocultural communities it serves. 14 1984 Regulatory framework may be needed to 15 ensure equity and equal treatment, meaning that there 16 be no jumping of the queues and no self-dealing. 17 Regulations may be required to ensure free access for 18 apartment dwellers. 19 1985 29(2) Market forces alone cannot be 20 left to serve the needs of the ethnocultural audiences. 21 In the context of the two official languages, 22 institutions such as the CBC maintain certain quality 23 and standards. The regulatory environment, as well as 24 the public funding, both ensure that the mainstream 25 Canadian culture and broadcasting is not left to the StenoTran 473 1 raw power of market forces. it is a question of 2 leadership and responsible management of our airwaves. 3 Ethnocultural segment of the broadcasting industry also 4 needs protection from market forces. 5 1986 Licensing controls Canadian 6 ownership. As well, Canadian content requirements are 7 needed to remain in place. 8 1987 29(3) A. Such links are quite 9 useful. In this context, one can cite the example of 10 the BBC in the context of the English audiences. The 11 presence of the BBC in the English-speaking world is a 12 matter worth noting. In the same manner, there are 13 high quality ethnic language programs available from 14 institutions, such as Doordarsha in India, an 15 equivalent of CBC or BBC. ATN does carry selected 16 programs of high quality which are available through 17 it. 18 1988 29(3) B. ATN carries Canadian 19 programming directed specifically to South Asian groups 20 in several languages, namely Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi, 21 Tamil, Gujarati, Telugu, Marathi, Malayalam, Bengali, 22 Sindhi and English. These are highly important as they 23 have relevance on a day-to-day basis. These make our 24 channel part and parcel of the community we serve. 25 1989 39(3) C. Cross-cultural StenoTran 474 1 understanding is very important at all levels. These 2 enrich and unite communities as well as families. This 3 cross-cultural understanding is as necessary between 4 generations as it is amongst the separate cultural 5 groups, including the mainstream. 6 1990 ATN does this by producing and 7 broadcasting bilingual programming, such as Hindi and 8 English, Punjabi and English, Tamil and English and so 9 on. 10 1991 29(3) D. Informational programming 11 is very important and ATN does this in many ways, 12 through magazine format shows, EFP and ENG, public 13 service announcements, mobile, publicity and promotion 14 and media sponsorships. 15 1992 29(3) E. These are also very 16 essential. ATN keeps viewers informed through 17 interviews, discussions and talk shows, in which 18 politicians, scholars, students, seniors, business 19 people and professionals participate. 20 1993 29(3) F. Programming which provides 21 a platform to develop local talent is very important. 22 ATN is very proud to have provided opportunities for 23 television debuts, to some of the current top singers 24 and performers in india, pakistan, Europe and the West 25 Indies, also internationally acclaimed platinum disc StenoTran 475 1 holders, such as Anup Jalota, Talat Aziz, Jagjit and 2 Chitra Singh, and Arif Raoof had their first 3 international television debut through ATN's Canadian 4 productions. 5 1994 29(4) There is no need for changes, 6 save and except in the area of funding. Funding which 7 is available for new programming needs to be allocated 8 more generously to the ethnocultural groups. 9 1995 29(50 The importance of ethnic 10 programming in third languages cannot be 11 over-emphasized. Language and culture go hand in hand. 12 English and French are fine in a limited, utilitarian 13 sense for the ethnic public. 14 1996 There is no substitute for the mother 15 tongue. Poetry is lost. Art suffers. Society is that 16 much poorer. There are also seniors and large segments 17 of public who are not really conversant in English. 18 1997 29(6) Conventional radio and TV 19 stations have a limited role. CBC may see a role to 20 give a few minutes to classical performances of Indian 21 music, or to a rare movie or Satya-Jit-Ray. There are 22 also brokered programs on many stations. These are 23 half or one hour weekly programs. They have their 24 place. 25 1998 The need for the large segments of StenoTran 476 1 the public is to have a choice on a daily basis. Shift 2 workers and homemakers and seniors find real choice 3 when programming is offered on a round-the-clock basis. 4 1999 29(7) Policy framework needs to be 5 vigilant in maintaining controls over foreign influx 6 and grey market. 7 2000 Grey market does not merely hurt 8 ethnic stations. It also hurts the mainstream and over 9 the air broadcasting. Grey market does not bring in a 10 single cent for the basic programming, as it bypasses 11 it. This also results in cultural deprivation within a 12 given cultural group, as well as cross-cultural 13 exchanges. 14 2001 The pressures are bound to build up 15 and it is easy and cheap to dump foreign programming. 16 These are markets which did not ever exist and can 17 provide revenues with no programming expenses to the 18 foreign broadcasters and producers. They can inundate 19 and suffocate the local Canadian productions. Internet 20 is an area which has to be reviewed from time-to-time. 21 2002 29(8) There has been no dearth of 22 foreign ethnic services from foreign sources. 23 Technology has made it easier to bring these to Canada. 24 The special role for ethnic broadcasters is to ensure 25 that they develop a vibrant and first rate Canadian StenoTran 477 1 made programming industry, by supporting local talent 2 in every way. 3 2003 The airwaves in Canada belong to 4 Canadians and must reflect national, regional and local 5 experience in Canada. That is only possible if 6 policies relating to Canadian cultural sovereignty 7 remain in place and are enforced. Canadian culture is 8 made of multiple cultures and a unique Canadian blend 9 of all of them. 10 2004 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Chandrasekar, 11 you only have about three minutes left in your 10 12 minutes. I just wanted to suggest to you that all of 13 these responses can be filed in writing with the 14 Commission, but if there are particular points that you 15 would like to share with us with respect to sort of the 16 broad framework, then now would be a good time to start 17 sharing them. I am sorry to interrupt you. It maybe 18 require sort of on-the-spot editing, but we would be 19 happy to accept all of those answers in writing. 20 2005 MR. S. CHANDRASEKAR: I think 21 basically there is really not much more that we would 22 like to add at this stage because we will be submitting 23 a written proposal. All we would simply like to say is 24 that we are extremely grateful to the Commission for 25 recognizing the value of our South Asian community in StenoTran 478 1 terms of granting of the licence and we are very 2 indebted not only to the Commission, but also we are 3 very grateful to the other broadcasters with whom we 4 have co-existed for many years. 5 2006 We have tremendous strength that we 6 see in over-the-air television broadcasters, cable 7 television companies, conventional broadcasters, 8 brokers who have radio, television, newspaper, the 9 entire industry. We feel that there are a lot of 10 synergies with which we can co-exist very well 11 together, but we are very, very strongly of the opinion 12 that Canadian content is an absolute must and there 13 should be absolutely no compromise with respect to any 14 foreign programming or relaxation of rules. 15 2007 We also strongly believe that 16 broadcast distribution undertakings have a tremendous 17 amount of responsibility. When you are given a 18 monopoly, I think it is very important to -- delegation 19 of responsibility and accountability goes side by side. 20 2008 We strongly believe that broadcast 21 distribution undertakings should really give 22 substantial priority or proper equal carriage to 23 services in which they have no ownership interest for 24 that matter. I think that is of great significance to 25 us. In the future I think it has got to be very, very StenoTran 479 1 important. Whether it is cable or satellite, it 2 doesn't matter. We are talking about a concept itself, 3 so it is not directed to any specific company for that 4 matter. 5 2009 I think other than that we are 6 absolutely glad to be here. By the way, because four 7 of us came we are not expecting 40 minutes, so don't 8 worry about that. 9 2010 I have got to tell you a very quick 10 joke before I finish. 11 2011 THE CHAIRPERSON: That will be a good 12 way to end off this portion of our proceedings. 13 2012 MR S. CHANDRASEKAR: Twenty-five 14 years ago, away before CFMT was born, I started my 15 career with Ted Rogers on channel -- it was a local 16 community channel in 1971. We launched Canada's first 17 South Asian television program on Rogers Cable. In 18 those days it was Channel 33. The cable dial in those 19 days on television sets it went only from channel 1 to 20 channel 13 and Ted Rogers didn't have colour cameras in 21 the Toronto Adelaide studios at that time. 22 2013 So in order to market the local first 23 general converters, people didn't know how to access 24 the channel because we were on a multicultural channel 25 called Channel 33. This was away before. So we had to StenoTran 480 1 go and sell the concept that on your TV set you can now 2 go beyond Channel 13 and we had to market that. 3 2014 History is repeating itself, so we 4 are now doing the same thing on the digital roll-out. 5 So we went through this experience and so we have had 6 that before and so we are now doing the same and it is 7 really funny. We launched our service on Shaw Cable 8 with whom we are very grateful by the way and we are on 9 digital, roll-out on Shaw, and people call us and we 10 are on Channel 102 on Shaw Cable. 11 2015 When people call, if that's a little 12 difficult we are on Look TV on Channel 500. Now, if 13 that's a high number to be on a channel, when people 14 complain that they want to be on Channel 10 or 12, we 15 are on ExpressVu on Channel 854. 16 2016 There was a time our channel number 17 was higher than our subscriber number. So I guess this 18 is the new digital world. So one of the important 19 things that we really want to emphasize is the fact 20 that we really would like to be launched where it is 21 appropriate on the analogue world and our community 22 will easily convert to the digital world when the 23 digital capacity is available, if at all it is possible 24 in some areas. 25 2017 If people feel that ethnic StenoTran 481 1 communities will not understand migrating from analogue 2 to digital, I would just like to reinforce ethnic 3 communities such as ours, we immigrated 14,000 miles 4 away to a country like Canada. We won't find it 5 difficult to immigrate from analogue to digital in the 6 same house. 7 2018 Thank you very much. 8 2019 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. 9 Chandrasekar. I am just wondering, are you telling us 10 that channel placement really in the digital world is 11 not an issue? 12 2020 MR S. CHANDRASEKAR: The number 13 doesn't really matter in the digital world. I think it 14 will take quite a bit of time to educate the community. 15 2021 We, frankly, have had a tremendous 16 amount of difficulty educating the community because we 17 are proud to say we are Canada's first channel that had 18 the guts to launch on digital cable as well as digital 19 satellite. A lot of people thought we were crazy, but 20 we still went ahead and launched on ExpressVu when we 21 first launched and it is really interesting, you know. 22 We felt that people couldn't understand what 23 direct-to-home satellite is, whereas in the United 24 States this term is more popular. 25 2022 We had to create our own call centre StenoTran 482 1 and people called us with different languages. I heard 2 one of my call centre people talking to one of the 3 customers and they were not even properly oriented and 4 the customer said -- the call centre person said to the 5 customer, "Oh, I'm sorry, if your house is not facing 6 southwest you won't get the signal." It's just the 7 dish had to face southwest and you can imagine how much 8 education we had to do from scratch. 9 2023 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much 10 for being with us. 11 2024 We are going to take a break now. We 12 will reconvene at a quarter to seven. 13 --- Short recess at 1830 / Courte suspension à 1830 14 --- Upon resuming at 1850 / Reprise à 1850 15 2025 THE CHAIRPERSON: Welcome back, 16 ladies and gentlemen. I apologize for the delay. It 17 just goes to show 15 minutes is not really long enough 18 for dinner. 19 2026 I think we will proceed to the next 20 party. I would just like to take this opportunity to 21 reinforce to you once again that you have 10 minutes 22 and Madam Secretary is cracking her whip. So, please 23 try to respect your time limit, but tell us what's on 24 your mind as well as you can within that limit. 25 2027 Thanks. StenoTran 483 1 2028 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speakers are 2 Mr. Alok Sharma and Mr. Mopas Dean of the National 3 Campus and Community Radio Association. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 2029 MR. DEAN: Thank you, Madam Chairman, 6 Commissioners, guests and people observing here today. 7 2030 Today myself and my colleague here, 8 we are here representing the National Campus and 9 Community Radio Association, also known as the NCRA. 10 Mr. Sharma is a program director and a fellow board 11 member representing the Ontario Region for the NCRA. 12 As well he's a program director at CHRY-Radio York. I 13 myself am the program director at CIUT-FM, University 14 of Toronto Radio and I sit on the board of the NCRA as 15 the Vice-President for Communications. 16 2031 As being here today on behalf of the 17 National Campus Community Radio Association, right now 18 we represent approximately over 50 stations across 19 Canada, as well as other radio societies and 20 organizations, people who are looking to get community 21 access, trying to start grassroots radio and 22 broadcasting. 23 2032 Of the 42 campus stations there are 24 also eight community stations within our third sector 25 of broadcasting, making up the Canadian broadcasting StenoTran 484 1 system or, as some people refer to it, the third silent 2 system. 3 2033 There are a couple of changes and/or 4 exemptions that we are looking for within the existing 5 policy as it pertains to ethnic broadcasting to campus 6 and community radio and I will be going through this 7 shortly. First, starting with protection for ethnic 8 programming. This is of great concern with us, 9 particularly protection from other stations and other 10 parties or new people coming into the broadcasting 11 system, from other stations or from people who are 12 looking to duplicate the services that we are already 13 providing in regards to the licensing that we get 14 and/or the radio policies put forth from the CRTC. 15 2034 Second of all, we want to raise the 16 issue of increasing the 15 per cent ceiling to 20 per 17 cent in regards to the amount of ethnic broadcasting 18 that we are allowed right now. We want to encourage 19 stations to have a variety of ethnic programming. The 20 current ceiling we feel prevents stations from giving a 21 voice to certain communities and even though stations 22 can ask for exemption, many are discouraged or are -- 23 discouraged I guess for lack of a better word, from the 24 processing system that they have to go through in terms 25 of working with the CRTC or liaising with other StenoTran 485 1 agencies. 2 2035 At our conference last summer in 3 Victoria we were discussing the idea of even perhaps 4 applying to raise it as much as 40 per cent. However, 5 we would be very happy to get the increase of 20 per 6 cent that we are asking for at this time. 7 2036 We are also looking for protection in 8 regards to our SCMO or sideband stations that we are 9 allowed to broadcast and utilize, particularly in 10 regards to our ethnic stations. In a lot of cases 11 these sidebands provide valuable funding and/or access 12 to funds that we don't normally have. As we all know, 13 the campus and community radio sector in Canada is very 14 fragile at best, often looking with problems in regard 15 to staffing, funding, granting as it dries up. This is 16 a valuable resource that we have and as we are even 17 seeing right now that I can speak from personal 18 experience with our sidebands over at CIUT. These are 19 constantly being challenged and these sidebands are 20 constantly challenged against the growth in terms of 21 multicultural programming or other programming that is 22 adjacent reflects what they are doing as sidebands. 23 2037 Finding that these sidebands not 24 being protected it could lead in some cases to stations 25 being quite catastrophic in terms of the financing that StenoTran 486 1 we get in. I know, particularly in the case of CIUT, 2 the finances that we get from our sidebands is really 3 greatly needed. 4 2038 I want to also touch on our 5 programming in relationship to ethnic broadcasting is 6 different within our sector. Our ethnic programming is 7 quite different from the commercial ethnic stations. 8 First of all, and foremost identifiable is students are 9 involved with it. As the international student 10 enrolment is on the rise at Canadian universities, so 11 is the enrolment of these students at our station. For 12 example, right now speaking from a poll that was taken 13 about two or three years ago at the University of 14 Toronto, 55 per cent of the undergraduate population is 15 neither white nor male. So, we are seeing a changing 16 face, not only in Canada, but also in student 17 populations as well. 18 2039 Most of our campus and community 19 radio stations have a much higher spoken word content 20 than most commercial ethnic stations. As well, the 21 spoken word content deals with in-depth issues, 22 culturally and politically issues and reports on news 23 that commercial stations and other medias usually don't 24 speak of. 25 2040 Our show hosts are usually tied into StenoTran 487 1 community and from the community. These are the same 2 people that choose their spoken-word programming and 3 their music programming. These show's producers are 4 tied directly into the community and in a majority of 5 cases are well known in their community. The majority 6 of ethnic programming at campus and community radio 7 stations will not include programming produced in other 8 areas of Canada, let alone other parts of the world. 9 As well, it is an important source to the community and 10 to let them know what is or isn't going on, locally or 11 regionally. 12 2041 As well, though it isn't exactly the 13 case in every situation, many campus and community 14 radio stations never charge anything to provide access 15 to our airwaves, as in some cases with our 16 counterparts. At most in a lot of cases is usually a 17 nominal membership fee, usually to match fees gained 18 through the university. 19 2042 We also have other concerns in 20 regards to the Canadian content factor participation 21 within ethnic broadcasting. Although 7 per cent seems 22 small and particularly in regards to the stations in 23 big urban or ethnic centres it is not a problem, but we 24 have seen on a whole that as we get away from the 25 ethnic centres in Canada and go into more remote StenoTran 488 1 regions this can tend to be a very large challenge and 2 problem. We are hoping that there can be a situation 3 or something said where we can look at either changing 4 or involving something like Factor or an agency where 5 we can look at getting campus and community radio more 6 involved in regards through granting or being involved 7 to set up a panel or something to promote Canadian 8 talent development through these regions to allow a 9 greater percentage to meet these quotas or something to 10 look at it to that extent. 11 2043 If this can be done through other 12 areas of funding or actually using or utilizing the 13 resources that we have within the campus and community 14 radio sector in Canada to be involved in such agencies, 15 turning a percentage of funds over to the Campus and 16 Community Radio Associations to use to distribute to be 17 a part of the granting situation. 18 2044 Basically, in closing this is what we 19 are looking at. In conclusion, we see the contribution 20 from ethnic communities and programming as a welcome 21 and needed component within our licensing. Our sector 22 revels in the contributions from persons and 23 communities who add to the mosaic in our programming 24 and who contribute to our privilege in giving a voice 25 to communities, ethnic groups and individuals who don't StenoTran 489 1 have access to the mainstream or media outlets in the 2 whole. 3 2045 Thank you for listening and we 4 appreciate the time that was granted to us today. 5 Thank you very much. 6 2046 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 7 for being with us. 8 2047 MR. DEAN: Our pleasure. 9 2048 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presenter is 10 Mr. Halia Volhovski of the Ukrainian Radio Program 11 Association. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 2049 MS V. VOLHOVSKI: Good evening. We 14 are Halia and Valeri Volhovski. We are ethnic 15 Ukrainian and today at this forum we represent 16 Ukrainian radio program "Prometheus" which airs monday 17 to Friday from 3:00 to 3:30 p.m. on CHIN-Radio AM 1540. 18 2050 "Prometheus" was first heard on the 19 airwaves on the 27th of April, 1962, already 37 years. 20 We are working for the Ukrainian radio program 21 "Prometheus" from 1995. 22 2051 The broadcasting of ethnic programs, 23 especially in a country like Canada, is of great 24 importance. Every person, no matter where they live, 25 has their own ethnic roots which go back a few StenoTran 490 1 generations or many. Sometimes people are forced to 2 leave their homeland for one reason or another. 3 Historically, this has been the case for most of the 4 USA and Canada. These two countries were established 5 by immigrants from all over the world. 6 2052 This is evident now as Toronto was 7 named the world's most culturally diverse city. Almost 8 every cultural group can be found in Canada, if not 9 all. Every person has their own religion, if any, 10 their own faith, traditions, belief. 11 2053 In this new land people still hold on 12 to these things even after they have left their 13 homeland, and end up forming communities. Every such 14 community has their own mass media sources. The first 15 factor in uniting a community is language. Almost for 16 all new immigrants in Canada, English or French is the 17 second language. Some people are keen to learn one or 18 both of these, others are not. 19 2054 It is also very important that 20 children be taught their roots and where they came 21 from, also the language of their ancestors. This is 22 where the ethnic mass media sources come into play, 23 including radio programs. My Ukrainian radio program 24 serves to do just that. 25 2055 Besides this though, the radio StenoTran 491 1 program also features news from Canada, the world and 2 especially Ukraine. Radio program "Prometheus" lets 3 all those who understand Ukrainian in southern Ontario 4 hear news, community announcements, political 5 commentaries, medical news, traditional eastern 6 European medicines, ukrainian holidays and festivities, 7 and sons from Ukraine. There are also interviews on 8 the program with influential people or interesting 9 people in the Ukrainian community. 10 2056 Ukrainian radio program gives 11 Ukrainian-speaking people who can't get out of their 12 house for one reason or another an opportunity to 13 connect with the outside world and to hear about it. 14 2057 Our Ukrainian radio programs has a 15 wide range of audience, around 50,000 people, including 16 those who can barely speak any English or none at all. 17 Mostly, these are newcomers in Canada. These newcomers 18 are in need of understanding this new world, and ethnic 19 mass media sources provides this too. 20 2058 People adjust to this country knowing 21 they have others just like them in this diversified 22 community. 23 2059 These programs can sometimes help a 24 critically ill patient who is in need of money for 25 medicines or other extreme cases. On one occasion the StenoTran 492 1 Ukrainian program "Prometheus" helped to collect costs 2 for the transport of the body of a young 24 year old 3 woman who unexpectedly died in Canada back to ukraine. 4 2060 Ethnic radio programs also help 5 ethnic businesses of Toronto get established and 6 flourish, as ethnic businesses usually advertise on 7 programs of their own culture which, in turn, benefits 8 them and not only. It also benefits the greater 9 community of Toronto and that of Canada. 10 2061 The taxes paid bring in revenue which 11 in turn could be used for the bettering of health 12 services, of education, science research, protection 13 services, transportation and creation of employment. 14 Also it enables Canada to take a leading role in 15 assisting nations of the world which are in need of 16 help due to wars, natural disasters and other factors. 17 2062 When the ethnic mass media sources 18 are examined more closely and more carefully, including 19 the radio programs, they can be looked at as the window 20 to people's homelands, to people's roots, so that they 21 may feel as if they were there, but know they are in 22 Canada and with time accepting Canada as their 23 homeland. 24 2063 We all know from history the Babylon 25 Tower which the peoples of the earth tried to build so StenoTran 493 1 as to the skies and have representatives from every 2 land in it. Canada represents that tower in a way. We 3 have representatives from almost every culture group of 4 the world here. 5 2064 Thank you to the Constitution of 6 Canada many cultures of the world can flourish right 7 here in Canada. From the ukrainian community of 8 Toronto and southern Ontario, whatever radio programs 9 are heard we give great thanks to Mr. Johnny Lombardi, 10 his family and to all the workers at CHIN, who work to 11 promote cultural diversity through the radio. 12 2065 Thank you very much from all the 13 Ukrainian community. 14 2066 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms 15 Volhovski. 16 2067 MS V. VOLHOVSKI: Thank you. 17 2068 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 18 Mr. Arnold Auguste of the Share newspaper. I hope I 19 pronounced that right, but I probably didn't. 20 2069 MR. AUGUSTE: Well, "August" is fine. 21 2070 MS RHÉAUME: Thank you. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 2071 MR. AUGUSTE: Good evening, Madam 24 Chairperson, Commissioner Langford, members of the 25 Commission. StenoTran 494 1 2072 First, I would like to take a moment 2 and express my thanks for the opportunity. The fact 3 that you have taken this time to listen to the concerns 4 of the ethnic communities across the country, I think 5 that says a lot to us, that you do care about what we 6 think. 7 2073 Thank you very much. 8 2074 My name is Arnold Auguste. I am the 9 founder and publisher of SHARE newspaper. SHARE is a 10 weekly newspaper that has served as the primary voice 11 of the Black and Caribbean community for close to 21 12 years. SHARE is the largest ethnic newspaper in Canada 13 with a circulation of about 130,000 readers every week. 14 2075 I have had a long and rewarding 15 career over the past 21 years as the publisher of 16 SHARE, having gained a measure of respect from various 17 levels of government and the key institutions within 18 our society for what I believe is objective and 19 balanced reporting on the Black experience in Canada. 20 2076 Canada's Black and Caribbean 21 community go back many generations. It includes the 22 long established African-Canadian community whose roots 23 date back to the founding of Canada and even before 24 that, the early West-Indians who worked on the 25 railroads in the early part of the century, a second StenoTran 495 1 wave who arrived in the sixties comprised mainly of 2 students and domestic workers who have since emerged to 3 become a major part of the professional and 4 entrepreneurial elite of our community and of the wider 5 society. Their offspring, along with those of earlier 6 generations, are quintessentially Canadian and they 7 want to be seen and to be accepted as nothing less than 8 that. 9 2077 A third wave of selected immigrants, 10 wanted because of their professional, technical and 11 other skills, arrived in the seventies and eighties. 12 And finally in the late eighties and nineties, there 13 were those who came here for economic and other 14 reasons, such as escaping persecution of one kind or 15 another. 16 2078 one thing we all share in common is 17 skin colour. Another is the seemingly perpetual 18 perception on the part of a significant segment of this 19 society, including many of its decision makers, that we 20 are still either newcomers or criminals -- the latter, 21 the result of the highly publicized activities of a 22 minuscule criminal element within our community. They 23 conveniently forget of course that there is crime in 24 every community. 25 2079 My comments today will be directed StenoTran 496 1 mainly at the impact which the CRTC's policy on third 2 language and ethnic programming has on the Black and 3 Caribbean community, particularly as it affects 4 Toronto. 5 2080 As you know, Toronto is the most 6 multicultural city in Canada, and arguably in the 7 world. According to recent StatsCan figures, visible 8 minorities will account for more than 50 per cent of 9 the population of this city in the next couple of 10 years. A large percentage of that will be members of 11 the Black and Caribbean community. 12 2081 With a population of close to half a 13 million people in the GTA, maybe even more than that, 14 our community is the largest community in Canada 15 without its own voice in broadcasting. 16 2082 We do have some programs on ethnic 17 radio and television stations. They are mostly late at 18 night or very early in the morning, times which are not 19 convenient for many of us. The fact that they continue 20 to be produced at all, however, speaks to the need for 21 such programming and to the dedication of the people 22 who are involved in providing this programming. For 23 example, disc jockeys, the DJs, the radio hosts and 24 these programs have a loyal following. In fact, some 25 of those radio hosts or DJs, as we call them, are very StenoTran 497 1 popular in our community. As a matter of fact, many of 2 them have achieved sort of celebrity status and it is 3 not uncommon to find some of them being invited to MC 4 shows as celebrity guests. 5 2083 In addition to the important role 6 play by our community and our local radio hosts, for 7 years WBLK, the Black radio station which booms into 8 Toronto from Buffalo, New York, has been a staple in 9 our community. It is not uncommon to go to the home of 10 a Black person and hear the radio tuned to BLK. During 11 the summer, when many young people are driving around 12 in their cars with their windows down, it is not 13 uncommon to hear that their radios are also tuned to 14 BLK. Actually, their disc jockeys are also very 15 welcome up here. They are very popular up here and 16 they are invited regularly to host fashion shows and 17 events of that kind. 18 2084 While mainstream television stations 19 have made an effort to feature Black and other visible 20 minorities on their news programs, and shows such as 21 CityTV's MuchMusic play an important role in helping 22 our community see a reflection of itself in the media, 23 there isn't one Black voice, as far as I am aware of, 24 on a mainstream radio station in this city. 25 2085 In examining the policy framework you StenoTran 498 1 ask to what extent the Canadian broadcasting system 2 adequately reflects Canada's ethnocultural community. 3 As the question relates to my community, the short 4 answer is it does not adequately do so. It does not 5 adequately reflect our voices. 6 2086 As I understand Canadian policy, over 7 the years on matters of multiculturalism or ethnicity, 8 it strives for and encourages the full participation of 9 ethnic groups in Canadian life. 10 2087 Our community essentially uses 11 English as our principal language of communication. 12 Unfortunately, ethnic broadcasting tends to be 13 multilingual in nature. And there's the rub. On the 14 one hand, we are largely ignored by ethnic broadcasters 15 because we speak English. On the other hand, we are 16 frequently overlooked by mainstream broadcasters 17 because we are not perceived to be part of the Canadian 18 mainstream. 19 2088 yes, we want to have programming in 20 English which helps us to share our Black experience 21 within our communities as stipulated in the 22 Commission's existing ethnic broadcasting policy. 23 2089 But much more importantly, we need to 24 have programming which reaches out to the wider society 25 and reflects and celebrates our experiences on StenoTran 499 1 mainstream radio and television so as to build a better 2 understanding, acceptance and integration for us within 3 our society. Without this, we would never be fully 4 accepted as equal partners within this society. 5 2090 Therefore, I implore you to take a 6 special look at the need for a strong Black presence or 7 a stronger Black presence in mainstream radio and 8 television broadcasting. 9 2091 While Type B programming is a high 10 priority for many of us in the Black and Caribbean 11 community, and some qualitative criteria as in Type C 12 must be kept to reach culturally isolated subsections 13 of our community, our primary requirement is to see 14 ourselves and to be seen by the Canadian audiences as 15 positive, contributing and successful and equal 16 partners in Canadian society. We need conventional 17 mainstream stations to reflect this reality. 18 2092 Black music, our music, which we have 19 given to the world is our main conduit for attracting 20 the attention of the wider society and getting them to 21 participate in our experiences and to see us as equals. 22 2093 We can use our music to gain the 23 foothold and that foothold that we need in this 24 conventional broadcasting system. 25 2094 There are a number of things that you StenoTran 500 1 as the CRTC can do to address the need for a greater 2 Black presence in mainstream broadcasting. 3 2095 First, mainstream broadcasters should 4 be encouraged to make room in their schedules for Type 5 E programming. And all these types I am talking about 6 I have just got from reading the information you sent 7 me, so I am getting familiar with what all of these 8 things mean. 9 2096 Second, where circumstances permit, 10 the Commission should use its best efforts to ensure 11 that Black music radio stations are licensed in 12 communities across Canada which feature a large enough 13 Black population to warrant such, such as here in 14 Toronto. 15 2097 Third, with the growing trend towards 16 specialty television in broadcasting, the Commission 17 should use its good offices to encourage the licensing 18 of a Canadian specialty television station patterned 19 along the lines of the American service, Black 20 Entertainment Television. 21 2098 Fourth, the Commission should 22 encourage broadcasters and record companies to provide 23 increased exposure and financial support for newly 24 recorded music by Black Canadian singers and musicians. 25 There is a real problem here. StenoTran 501 1 2099 Fifth, internships and other training 2 incentives for visible minority graduates from 3 broadcast and journalism schools should be encouraged 4 and included as part of the obligation of new 5 licensees, or as part of the benefits package required 6 in transactions involving transfers of ownership and 7 control. 8 2100 I have a personal interest here 9 because I am on the advisory board of the Journalism 10 Department at Ryerson. We have a real problem getting 11 internships at some of these stations especially for 12 young people, for our students. 13 2101 In conclusion, Madam Chairperson, as 14 a member of the Black and Caribbean community, a 15 revision of the ethnic broadcasting policy will only be 16 useful and relevant if visible minorities like me, who 17 use English or French as our primary means of 18 communication, see ourselves reflected not just in 19 ethnic programming, but much more importantly that our 20 contributions, our cultural expressions and our history 21 are included as valid, and as equally enriching as all 22 the other facets which make up this country's 23 magnificent cultural identity. This can be best 24 achieved by securing a place for us in Canada's 25 mainstream radio and television broadcasting system. StenoTran 502 1 2102 That's all I have to say today. I 2 thank you very much for your time. 3 2103 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. Auguste. 5 2104 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 6 Pradip Sood of the Indo-Canada Chamber of Commerce. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 2105 MR. SOOD: Commissioners, ladies and 9 gentlemen, good evening. My name is Pradip Sood. I am 10 the Corporate Secretary, Vice-President of the 11 Indo-Canada Chamber of Commerce. 12 2106 The ICCC is a non-profit, 13 non-partisan organization founded in 1977. Our 14 programs and policies foster individual and team 15 initiatives and the ability of our members to make a 16 significant contribution to the economic, cultural and 17 social fabric of Canada. 18 2107 As Canada's premier privately funded 19 Indo-Canadian business organization, our mission is to 20 promote business, professional -- and the general 21 well-being of Indo-Canadian business, to create 22 positive awareness of contributions of the 23 Indo-Canadian business communities and to facilitate 24 business and create opportunities. 25 2108 Our current membership of StenoTran 503 1 approximately 660 encompasses a wide range of 2 industries and professions. The membership consists of 3 largely SME business, together with professionals 4 servicing corporate Canada. Many of our members 5 currently trade with the U.S., the U.K., Germany, Viet 6 Nam, Malaysia, China and India to name a few. 7 2109 We essentially view multiculturalism 8 as a great business potential, to the extent that we 9 now hold multicultural trade symposia with other 10 similar organizations in Toronto. Two years ago the 11 ICCC held symposia in collaboration with the Italian 12 and the Chinese business associations. Last year the 13 event was expanded to include the Dutch, Japanese, 14 Black and Ukrainian business associations as well. 15 2110 The ICCC believes that there is 16 tremendous potential for doing business with these 17 communities and the countries they represent. Such 18 opportunity exists right here for us at home, thanks to 19 the multicultural mosaic of Canada. 20 2111 The immigrant population in urban 21 cities across Canada is the fastest growing segment. 22 This has naturally enhanced the need for the 23 third-language programming that the adults and seniors 24 constantly need to keep in touch with the country of 25 their origin. Our children learn to understand their StenoTran 504 1 roots, a compelling factor in their formative years. 2 2112 The essence and content of the 3 culturally based program is often lost when a language 4 such as English or French is used in imparting 5 knowledge about heritage, religion, poetry and so on. 6 2113 At present, the broadcasting system 7 serving Canada's ethnocultural communities is limited 8 and selective. The commercial opportunities arising of 9 the third-language programming have yet to be explored 10 to their fullest potential. The third-language 11 programming offer very creative market potentials for 12 producers. This has remained untapped mainly due to 13 the current guidelines and framework being imposed 14 rather than being determined by the free market systems 15 in the Canadian context. This is equally applicable to 16 radio and television broadcasting. 17 2114 Those courageous networks who are 18 trying to bring forth third-language programming to 19 people are only able to do so at extremely high cost to 20 the customers. Viewers have to first rent or install 21 all kinds of equipment in addition to the monthly cable 22 charge to view these programs which makes this very 23 expensive for families. 24 2115 Given the fact that access today is 25 limited and, therefore, regulated, the ability of StenoTran 505 1 programming service companies to effectively compete in 2 an open market is very confined. Most broadcast 3 distributors also own programming services. This 4 causes further aggravation in instances where the 5 marketing styles of independent producers fail to match 6 that of the cable company. 7 2116 We believe as long as broadcast 8 distribution undertakings such as cable companies or a 9 DTH distributor or wireless companies are allowed to 10 own programming services, third language programming 11 will have a difficulty to reach their potential. 12 2117 Like gas, hydro and the telephone 13 industries, why cannot the distribution be kept at an 14 arm's length with content or programming. After all, 15 we are talking about access. 16 2118 As to the question as to should there 17 be priority on the development of Canadian ethnic 18 services rather than foreign services, we feel that 19 while one would like to see a substantial Canadian 20 content -- however, such content should not dilute the 21 authenticity and relevance of the program. 22 2119 Simultaneously, through protection 23 and regulation, the local talent should be developed on 24 a larger scale to replace the foreign at the earliest. 25 2120 Today there is a need for StenoTran 506 1 facilitating third-language programming at reasonable 2 rates in order to ensure that one of the most powerful 3 industries which potentially can go to every home and 4 make the difference in the lives of the ethnocultural 5 population of Canada gets the necessary boost. Perhaps 6 it's about time for chopping American channels and 7 fostering the growth of Canadian ethnic channels to the 8 fullest potential with no compromise. 9 2121 We would also like to express the 10 need for adequate radio service for the ethnocultural 11 population of GTA. Some of the programming, especially 12 the South Asian one is currently fragmented. A number 13 of short-length programs are serving the community, 14 making it very difficult for listeners. Perhaps the 15 location of one multicultural radio station would help 16 aggregate such splintered services. 17 2122 In closing, I would like to reiterate 18 that there should be no foreign service allowed in 19 Canada and further, the existing ethnic services should 20 be the lead players in any expansion of television or 21 radio in the particular dish market. Let's not forget 22 that a big country like even the U.S. last month had to 23 introduce or at least attempted to introduce 24 protectionist policies towards their steel regarding 25 the Japanese steel coming into the country. StenoTran 507 1 2123 So, protecting the people who already 2 have or ensuring the people who already have licences 3 within the radio or in television and giving them the 4 fullest possible opportunity to expand and to grow and 5 also to share the time would certainly help our ethnic 6 multicultural situation. 7 2124 Thank you. 8 2125 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 9 much, Mr. Sood. 10 2126 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation 11 will be Mr. Srini Suppiramaniam and Mr. Richard 12 Kanaragaura. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 2127 MR. SUPPIRAMANIAM: Commissioners, 15 nearly three decades ago, ladies and gentlemen, Canada 16 laid the foundation to the concept of a global family 17 of diverse communities of peoples and nations with the 18 declaration that this country will function as a 19 multicultural state within a bilingual framework. 20 2128 The architects had great visions to 21 conceive a policy that will give abundant opportunities 22 for all newcomers to the land to learn English and 23 French and be encouraged at the same time to retain 24 their cultural traditions and values through the 25 propagation of the heritage languages and be provided StenoTran 508 1 with opportunities for intercultural activities. In 2 other words, Canada was to strive towards a microcosm 3 of a global family within its borders itself. 4 2129 As the founder of Ceylon 5 Broadcasting, TV Ceylon, a commercial enterprise, 6 following my responsibilities as the producer and the 7 technical director of Kalappam Tamil Cultural 8 Television Network of the community channel of Shaw and 9 Rogers Cables since September 1993, I am very 10 privileged to present to the Canadian Radio-television 11 Commission today my views and observations on the 12 questions that have been raised to review its policy on 13 third language and ethnic programming. 14 2130 It is 15 years since a broadcasting 15 policy reflecting Canada's cultural and linguistic 16 diversity was issued. This is a good period of time to 17 examine the impact it has made, particularly in 18 relation to Canada's commitment to multiculturalism and 19 to determine as to where we should go from here into 20 the 21st century, or call it the new millennium. 21 2131 In all honesty, I have to admit to 22 this Commission that although I can draw inferences 23 from a broader perspective, my focus naturally will be 24 on the Tamil community in Canada to which I belong, and 25 for whose needs both Kalappam and TV Ceylon were StenoTran 509 1 founded. I am proud to be the pioneer TV broadcaster 2 to my community in this country, and for taking this 3 challenge initiative. I have been greatly helped by my 4 experience as a communication engineer with Sri Lanka's 5 TV and Radio Broadcasting Services, Rupavahini for 10 6 years, and later as TV production engineer with Rogers 7 Cable Community Television here in Toronto. 8 2132 The services that are the direct 9 results of the CRTC policy has enabled the Tamil 10 community to be informed of day-to-day local and 11 international events in their own language and 12 entertained with cultural programs that are traditional 13 to them. they have also created avenues for 14 educational opportunities and to appreciate and 15 understand the cultures and values of fellow Canadians. 16 The availability of the broadcasting services and the 17 technology that has developed along with it in 18 particular have been a major encouraging feature in the 19 development of music and dance sacred to the Tamils. 20 2133 Even more important is the 21 heart-warming fact that every Tamil can feel proud that 22 he or she can share her culture with fellow Canadians, 23 be enriched land through this lay the foundations for 24 intercultural understanding within the marvellous 25 mosaic of Canadian multiculturalism. If a Tamil who StenoTran 510 1 was a refugee a decade and a half ago fleeing the 2 country, leaving all that he or she had built on the 3 foundations laid by generations of ancestors can 4 retrieve the lost dignity in an alien land and be proud 5 of it, among many institutions in Canada that 6 contributed towards it the CRTC can take a major 7 credit. It is my view that the broadcasting policy 8 that was conceived and implemented 15 years ago was one 9 of great foresight. 10 2134 Let me at this juncture make an 11 observation or two. Canada is a free country and the 12 country's economic development to a very large extent 13 is determined by market forces. An institution like TV 14 Ceylon is very much dependent on advertising support. 15 This, at present comes from commercial enterprises that 16 are largely Tamil-owned and the support they can 17 provide us is limited and dwindling. It would be a 18 far-fetched dream to hope that large corporations will 19 come to the aid of ethnocultural enterprises, 20 especially when our children become more and more 21 familiar with the kind of consumerism that is sadly 22 beyond the enterprise of the Tamil community. 23 2135 The CRTC, therefore, should consider 24 this as a matter of great importance, or shall I say 25 grave importance, and ensure that the development of StenoTran 511 1 ethnocultural programs do not suffer because of the 2 dwindling nature of commercial enterprises within a 3 said community. There are, I am sure, various ways of 4 counteracting this threat and small communities like 5 ours need the continuing strength and support of the 6 CRTC. It is possible, there may come a time mainstream 7 broadcasting entrepreneurs may begin to see great 8 possibilities by becoming partners with us in our 9 enterprises. 10 2136 It may, however, be argued that 11 programs should be developed that will attract 12 advertising from large corporations. While this is 13 true, apart from the need to develop technology to a 14 very high degree, advertisers are likely to demand 15 programs that may ignore cultural aspects that are rich 16 to a particular community. The philosophical, 17 religious and cultural enrichment Bharatha Natyam and 18 Carnatic music give to the Tamils, for example, may at 19 best be compromised or at worst, although ignored. It 20 is necessary that we have to be conscious of this 21 danger at all times. 22 2137 On the other hand, emphasis on 23 ethnocultural programs should not mean the 24 strengthening the forces of the ghetto. This would 25 defeat not only Canada's ideal of multiculturalism, but StenoTran 512 1 will also encourage clots in the body politic of the 2 country that could lead to sociopolitical ulcers and 3 cancers with dire consequences to the country. 4 2138 The CRTC must ensure that 5 ethnocultural programs, while placing the emphasis on 6 the unique endowment of a particular community, must 7 also cause ripples, waves and vibrations of impact 8 around it encompassing the cultures of fellow 9 Canadians. In this respect, the campuses from the 10 schools to the university must become areas of interest 11 for the CRTC. It is here young people relate 12 themselves easily with their fellow students without 13 being constricted by prejudices of all kinds from race 14 and religion to colour and gender. 15 2139 Finally, on the question of importing 16 foreign services and material to meet the ethnocultural 17 needs, I must issue a strong warning. Again, speaking 18 for my community, there is naturally an attraction to 19 meet this need without much effort by importing 20 programs from South India which is today among the 21 foremost producers of films and other entertainment 22 material. 23 2140 My community here in Canada is part 24 of the Canadian nation. It has to develop on the lines 25 Canada has determined for herself under the Charter of StenoTran 513 1 Rights and Freedoms. We have to develop our own 2 programs, our own technology and our own experts based 3 on the values that we cherish as Tamils and enriched by 4 our Canadian citizenship. 5 2141 Therefore, in this field too, the 6 CRTC must take note the role it can play to develop our 7 own materials and programs. These could very well 8 become a crucial factor in the social revolution long 9 overdue in South India, Sri Lanka Mauritius, South 10 Africa, Fiji, Guyana and other places Tamils went to 11 work in plantations during the colonial era. in other 12 words, blessed as we are, it is we who should be 13 exporting programs to these countries. 14 2142 In making this presentation on behalf 15 of TV Ceylon, I am fortunate to have the support and 16 expertise of mr. K.S. Balachandran who enjoys a unique 17 name as one of Sri Lanka's foremost actors and a 18 dramatist who has been associated with Sri Lanka's 19 Rupavahini and Richard Karunairajan, a journalist of 20 repute who has worked in several countries and as an 21 information officer with Radio Television Seychelles 22 for six years. 23 2143 On behalf of TV Ceylon I thank the 24 CRTC and CFMT for giving me the opportunity to make 25 this presentation. It is my hope that this StenoTran 514 1 broadcasting policy reflecting Canada's linguistic and 2 cultural diversity will be considered for future 3 development. 4 2144 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 5 much, Mr. Suppiramaniam. 6 2145 MR. K.S. BALACHANDRAN: Ladies and 7 gentlemen, first of all I would like to introduce 8 myself. I am K.S. Balachandran, an actor, script 9 writer, director and broadcaster involved in the Tamil 10 cultural field for more than 30 years and since my 11 arrival in Canada founded Canadian Tamil Artistes 12 Guild, a non-profit corporation, which promotes Tamil 13 theatre and other related activities in Canada by 14 producing Tamil dramas, television films and cultural 15 shows. 16 2146 As we, the Canadian Tamil Artistes 17 Guild, interacts with TV Ceylon, the weekly Tamil TV 18 program, in Channel 47 of CFMT in the above-mentioned 19 activities to serve our community, we are very much 20 pleased about the contribution made by TV Ceylon in 21 promoting our organization and other similar 22 organizations who serves our community in 23 cultural-related fields. 24 2147 TV Ceylon is doing an immense service 25 by giving our programs necessary publicity by StenoTran 515 1 broadcasting informative bulletins, interviews and 2 visual contents of our programs at regular intervals, 3 enabling our community to get an awareness about our 4 services. 5 2148 As we cannot expect similar 6 assistance from the mainstream media in Canada, we feel 7 it is very essential that an ethnic television program 8 like TV Ceylon should be allowed to serve without any 9 interruption. 10 2149 In addition, I would like to mention 11 about the contents of the program provided by TV Ceylon 12 weekly. As we, the members of our community feel that 13 there is a widening gap between the older and younger 14 generations in our community in several ways, we search 15 for bridging factors which will avoid this situation of 16 a division in the community due to the lack of 17 communication. We feel that through the promotion of 18 cultural base or foundation in the minds of our younger 19 generation, we can help them to maintain their identity 20 in this multicultural society and also to find unity in 21 diversity. TV Ceylon is doing a great service by 22 broadcasting culture-based programs, enabling our 23 younger generation to have a first-hand knowledge about 24 our culture and traditional values. 25 2150 TV Ceylon, as a part of CFMT, also StenoTran 516 1 encourages the participation of young people by giving 2 top priority to them in their programs, thereby helps 3 to maintain and carry on our traditional values and 4 cultural aspects pertaining to our community into the 5 future as well. As a visual media catering for an 6 ethnic community, TV Ceylon has been doing a great 7 service to both young and old in our community since 8 its introduction. 9 2151 I hope at this juncture the CRTC will 10 curtail the import and usage of foreign produced 11 programs lacking in Canadian content which will by no 12 means promote our cultural identity in this 13 multicultural society. 14 2152 The CRTC which is doing an 15 appreciable service in helping different linguistic 16 communities to maintain their identity in this 17 multicultural society, which enables them to know about 18 the cultural background of fellow Canadians, also 19 should continue its policy of promoting cultural 20 identity of each community into the next millennium in 21 this wonderful country, which promotes multiculturalism 22 as a motto of its own. We wish the CRTC every success 23 in this endeavour and related activities. 24 2153 Thank you. 25 2154 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very StenoTran 517 1 much, Mr. Balachandran. 2 2155 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 3 by Mr. Shahid Hashmi, Chairman of CanPak Chamber of 4 Commerce. 5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 6 2156 MR. HASHMI: Good evening, ladies and 7 gentlemen. 8 2157 Canada is like a Butchart Gardens in 9 Victoria, B.C., where we have all kinds of flowers from 10 all over the world. I must say that multiculturalism 11 and multilingualism is very important because it is 12 growing and growing every day and the CRTC I believe is 13 doing an excellent job, including CFMT, CHIN and ATN. 14 I would give a couple of examples of CFMT and ATN, that 15 they had a special which was very important, especially 16 to us, because I am here for 25 years and I haven't had 17 an opportunity to go back to the homeland for 16, 17 18 years. 19 2158 My kids were born here. They have 20 never been there, but they know the tradition and 21 culture of Pakistan, of our country. I am proud to be 22 a Canadian citizen obviously, but that's where I was 23 born and I would like to carry that heritage. 24 2159 Today my children know everything 25 because of this multiculturalism broadcasting. Again, StenoTran 518 1 I would say a very special thanks to ATN and CFMT who 2 are providing these kinds of programs and, obviously, 3 they need your help to continue doing that super job. 4 2160 My other example is I provide tax 5 tips in Urdu. I found that that is very help -- on a 6 TV program obviously, which is very helpful to the 7 people who are unfortunate to understand income tax in 8 English. I find it is very helpful that they are being 9 educated in their language to file a correct return, 10 reduce Revenue Canada's work and take all the 11 advantages of credit. 12 2161 Being the Chairman of the Chamber of 13 Commerce I would like to say a few things about what we 14 are trying to do or what we would like to do and why 15 multiculturalism and the media is very important to us. 16 The CanPak Chamber of Commerce promotes improved trade 17 and commerce, economics, civics and social welfare by 18 exploring business opportunities, an increasing 19 business relationship between Canada, Pakistan and also 20 other countries and by providing Canadian, Pakistani 21 and also other business sectors with more information 22 about businesses; promoting education, and encouraging 23 youngsters to keep their mind and options open, create 24 an educated and unbiased workforce that changes and 25 grows with the world market. StenoTran 519 1 2162 In conclusion, I would say that 2 effective communication leads to peace of mind and a 3 happier and healthier life. 4 2163 Thank you very much. 5 2164 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 6 much. 7 2165 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 8 by Mr. Valery Tokmakov of Tokmakov City Productions. 9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 10 2166 MR. TOKMAKOV: Hello. My name is 11 Valery Tokmakov. I am from Russia. I am born in 12 Moscow. I am not a KGB agent. I am not from the 13 Russian Mafia. I am not a rich, new Russian. I am a 14 producer of Russian TV programs in Canada. 15 2167 This year is it exactly 30 years when 16 I start my career in the TV business. I am sorry that 17 my English is not very well. Can I ask my friend here 18 to help me for translation? 19 2168 Thank you. 20 2169 BY TRANSLATION: Yes, everything that 21 is written in the presentation you have in your file 22 and it is no sense to read. Therefore, Mr. Tokmakov 23 would like just to note a few special things that are 24 related to Russian immigration rather than anything 25 else. StenoTran 520 1 2170 When he came to Canada he never 2 dreamt that he would be able to work on TV again. 3 Seven years ago I think I was lucky. I met Madeline 4 Ziniak and from this moment he works in his profession 5 on TV. He is happy that his life and the love of his 6 wife didn't change and they have the pleasure of 7 continuing the profession that they love so much 8 because he is a journalist. 9 2171 They obtained in Canada incredible 10 experience in TV journalism and TV production that they 11 hadn't gotten before. 12 2172 It is very unusual for a person who 13 came from the country that was enforcing people to be 14 the same faceless mutants to encourage -- here in 15 Canada to encourage language and TV production in their 16 own language, their own culture and he is incredibly 17 grateful to Canada for that. It proves the good 18 feelings and relationships within Canada in different 19 cultures that immigrated here during so many years. 20 2173 Very intense immigration during the 21 last years in Canada has proven the necessity of TV is 22 paramount, from Russia especially, immigration from 23 Russia. 24 2174 It is a big difference between the 25 Soviet Union that was planning to put together a StenoTran 521 1 nationality of different cultures and languages and 2 didn't succeed and Canada succeeded in that in his 3 opinion. 4 2175 In Russia journalism on television 5 was an instrument of oppression, through political 6 pressure from the central and dictatorship government. 7 Instead of information, disinformation, and he is very 8 happy that this is such a free speech community, that 9 he can express his opinion and the opinion of all 10 Russian-speaking immigrants. 11 2176 Since he was working on TV it was all 12 in his eyes what was happening and it was the main 13 reason for his departure, as well as other journalists 14 from the Soviet Union to Canada. He suffered through 15 the methods of television and the press, religion, 16 culture was suppressed and humiliated. 17 2177 As he said in the beginning and he 18 repeats again, they were trying to create a nation of 19 mutants who think the same and doing the same thing in 20 the same language. We all know what it resulted in. 21 2178 Over a month ago we had a great 22 celebration because Mr. Tokmakov had received Canadian 23 citizenship. He is very happy to represent the 24 interests of Russian-speaking society on the territory 25 of Canada. StenoTran 522 1 2179 This is what he wanted to say and I 2 will say a few words for me. About six years ago I 3 started to support this program and I am very proud of 4 it right now. There is another interesting factor that 5 is happening during immigration. It is not only the 6 fact that people displaced from their homeland to 7 another country, but intellectuals displaced. Any 8 changes in any country affecting intellectuals the most 9 in general. In fact, I immigrated here in 1975 and 10 until 1993 when this TV was organized I haven't found 11 other soul mates in my own community. I actually met 12 people here that I have never met in my life before and 13 I was disappointed. 14 2180 I moved into the Bloor and Yonge, a 15 Canadian area and I didn't speak Russian for 10 years. 16 Then when the TV started I helped it to be organized 17 and then to my surprise I found other Russian-speaking 18 people with whom I was able to communicate and share my 19 poetry, music, culture and so on. 20 2181 So, I am here just to express my 21 gratitude to the owner and producer, Tokmakov. Again, 22 I am saying I am very proud of helping this TV to be 23 organized and to survive until this day. 24 2182 Thank you. 25 2183 MR. TOKMAKOV: Thank you very much. StenoTran 523 1 2184 THE CHAIRPERSON: Congratulations on 2 your Canadian citizenship, Mr. Tokmakov. 3 2185 Thank you for telling us your story 4 and thank you for playing the role that you did in 5 helping him communicate with us. Thank you very much. 6 2186 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is Ms 7 Agnieszka Marszalek, President of the Polish McMaster 8 Society. Ms Agnieszka Marszalek. 9 2187 We will then move to Mr. Aris 10 Babikian, President of the Armenian National 11 Federation. He was here earlier, so we will go back 12 later. Mr. Babikian. 13 2188 Mr. Michael Luchka, producer of the 14 Kontakt Ukrainian TV Network. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 2189 MR. LUCHKA: Good evening, Madam 17 Chairperson, members of the CRTC consultation board, 18 fellow ethnic broadcasters, dear guests. 19 2190 My name is Michael Luchka. I am a 20 graduate of the School and Radio Arts at Ryerson 21 Polytechnic University and I am the host and producer 22 of the Ukrainian television program Kontakt. 23 2191 The very nature of our program is 24 reflected in its name, Kontakt, and our name and our 25 message has been heard from coast to coast and now StenoTran 524 1 overseas. Our weekly, one-hour program has tackled 2 many issues pertinent to not only to the ukrainian 3 community of Canada, but to all of Canadian society. 4 2192 As a representative of the ukrainian 5 television program Kontakt, I welcome the CRTC decision 6 to review its policy on third language and ethnic 7 broadcasting in Canada and appreciate this opportunity 8 to present the views of the ukrainian Canadian 9 community. In the 14 years since the last review, 10 Canada has become a more culturally and linguistically 11 diverse country. During his recent visit to Ukraine, 12 Prime Minister Jean Chretien told an assembled group of 13 university students that, and I quote, "In Canada, we 14 believe it is possible to be all equal and have 15 different languages, different religions and different 16 colours of the skin. We call it multiculturalism -- it 17 is equality in diversity." 18 2193 This diversity has made Canada what 19 it is today. Ukrainians, in their own unique way, have 20 contributed to the multicultural mosaic of this 21 country, while helping build and reinforce the strong 22 national identity we Canadians maintain. in fact, 23 almost 80 per cent of the 1 million immigrants that 24 arrived between 1991 and 1996 reported a mother tongue 25 of English or French. A Canadian heritage and identity StenoTran 525 1 that is common to all must be respected and promoted. 2 however, for the full and equitable participation of 3 Canada's ethnocultural communities in Canada's 4 mainstream, their cultural and social rights need to be 5 preserved and enhanced. 6 2194 Section 3(1)(d)(iii) of the 7 Broadcasting Act states that: 8 "The Canadian broadcasting 9 system should...through its 10 programming and the employment 11 opportunities arising out of its 12 operations, serve the needs and 13 interests, and reflect the 14 circumstances and aspirations, 15 of Canadian men, women and 16 children, including equal 17 rights, the linguistic duality 18 and multicultural nature of 19 Canadian society and the special 20 place of aboriginal people 21 within that society." 22 2195 We feel that Canada's national 23 television should be mirroring the full range of 24 today's Canadian multicultural reality in drama, news, 25 entertainment and documentaries. The media must foster StenoTran 526 1 a society that recognizes, respects and reflects a 2 diversity of cultures such that peoples of all 3 backgrounds feel a sense of belonging to a truly 4 inclusive nation that is Canada. This is of greater 5 fundamental concern today than ever before in our 6 history, since 42 per cent of Canada's population is 7 neither of French or English background. 8 2196 While mainstream media should be 9 reflecting the variety and richness of Canadian 10 community life, ethnic media serves a dual 11 communication purpose: Internal communication 12 experience sharing with various ethnic communities; and 13 to a lesser extent, providing a window into the old 14 country, making the transition to Canadian life 15 smoother and less alienating. 16 2197 Third language radio and television 17 programs need to be protected. Broadcasting of this 18 kind contributes to the maintenance of the quality of 19 life of Canadian senior citizens who constitute an 20 ever-growing segment of our society. These programs 21 also assist newcomers to learn and adapt to Canadian 22 life, even assist them in training and employment, 23 while the benefits to the younger viewers of our 24 society are endless as well. 25 2198 Ethnic business, although it is never StenoTran 527 1 contained within strictly ethnic borders, constitutes a 2 significant portio of general small business in Canada; 3 community programs become, therefore, an important 4 element of marketing infrastructure for small or 5 middle-sized entrepreneurs. 6 2199 The Ukrainian community is unique in 7 Canada from the perspective that Ukrainians are 8 scattered geographically all across Canada. Therefore, 9 a Ukrainian TV program based only in southern Ontario 10 or Toronto, for example, excludes approximately 70 to 11 75 per cent of the Canadian community. In response to 12 this situation, the ukrainian TV program Kontakt 13 syndicated its weekly one-hour show across Canada using 14 mainstream broadcast stations. As a result, Kontakt 15 has become the largest, if not the only, ukrainian 16 television network in Canada. Kontakt presents to the 17 ukrainian communities across the nation a commonality 18 of interest, promotes our unique diversity, influences 19 language retention and, most importantly, strengthens 20 Canadian citizenship. 21 2200 If there were a policy that 22 mainstream broadcast outlets allocate air time to 23 ethnic communities based on regional presence, more 24 community monies could be redirected towards better 25 regional programming and higher quality production StenoTran 528 1 values overall. The creation of such a platform would 2 do much towards the raising of the self-esteem of 3 ethnic communities and promoting better Canadian 4 citizenship. 5 2201 The CRTC should ensure that grants 6 are available to help offset the costs connected with 7 ethnic programming, particularly where these 8 communities have a considerable audience. 9 2202 Canadian public broadcasters should 10 focus on reflecting the full range of Canada's 11 multicultural experience in drama production, 12 entertainment, news coverage and documentary 13 programming. Ethnic media needs a dedicated 14 broadcasting forum to facilitate inexpensive access to 15 the media. Ideally, this would entail the creation of 16 a national multilingual network. 17 2203 Until that time, public and private 18 broadcasters in Canada should be required to allot at 19 least 10 hours per week of ethnic broadcasting which 20 would be allocated to communities based on population, 21 demand and ability of the community to produce or 22 supply programming which contains 50 per cent Canadian 23 content. This will result on the heightened community 24 awareness of activities across the nation coast to 25 coast, and the promotion of greater tolerance and StenoTran 529 1 understanding among Canada's diverse population, from 2 which Canada will surely benefit. 3 2204 Programming directed specifically to 4 ethnocultural groups should reflect national, regional 5 and local experiences and provide information about 6 Canada. It should serve as a link to the community, 7 one that strengthens and unites by informing the 8 listeners and viewers about the larger Canadian 9 community of which they are a part. 10 2205 in conclusion, Kontakt strongly urges 11 the CRTC to undertake the following: 12 2206 One, renew the commitment it made in 13 1985 to basic principles entrenched in the 14 "Broadcasting Policy Reflecting Canada's Cultural and 15 Linguistic Diversity". It must ensure that mechanisms 16 are put into place which accords these principles 17 appropriate resources for implementation; 18 2207 Two, create a national multilingual 19 network to ensure that ethnic programs are broadcast 20 across Canada; 21 2208 Three, create the position of 22 ombudsman to ensure the Canadian content reflects the 23 multicultural reality of Canada; and 24 2209 Four, monitor and ensure that 25 producers of ethnocultural and third-language StenoTran 530 1 programming, domestically and internationally, adhere 2 to the spirit of values entrenched in the Broadcasting 3 Act, Multiculturalism Act, the Human Rights Act and the 4 Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the creation of any 5 programming. 6 2210 The medium is the message and the 7 message comes in many languages. The Ukrainian TV 8 network Kontakt send this message and in the process 9 united Canadians of Ukrainian descent across the 10 country. 11 2211 We have highlighted and promoted 12 various business ventures and cultural events. We have 13 served as a forum for many organizations and charities. 14 We celebrate the accomplishments of other 15 Ukrainian-born Canadians, many of whom have gone on to 16 be successful politicians, entrepreneurs and 17 entertainers and athletes. 18 2212 Ukrainians pride themselves in their 19 rich culture, their songs and dances and traditional 20 foods and costumes as all ethnic groups do. We 21 remember our past, as harsh as it is sometimes, and 22 recognize that the future depends on what we do now. 23 2213 All in all, we as others, honour the 24 heritage that has made us a piece of the multicultural 25 puzzle that we fit into today. The question standing StenoTran 531 1 before us is whether we can complete this puzzle in 2 order to see the whole picture, the Canada we all know 3 it really can be. 4 2214 That depends on our willingness to 5 continue to unite our individual communities as we have 6 been trying to do, and it also depends on the 7 willingness of the Canadian government, and namely the 8 CRTC, to share in our readiness to help make Canada a 9 better place for all of its citizens and for those who 10 are yet to become its citizens. 11 2215 I thank the CRTC on behalf of Kontakt 12 for giving me the opportunity to express the concerns 13 and needs regarding third language and ethnic 14 broadcasting. Thank you. 15 2216 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. 16 Luchka. Did anybody ever tell you that you speak very 17 quickly? That's an advantage when you only have 10 18 minutes to present. 19 2217 MR. LUCHKA: Right. 20 2218 MS RHÉAUME: Next is Mr. Joseph La 21 Marca. Mr. Joseph La Marca. 22 2219 We will then go to Ms Elaine 23 Teofilovici. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 2220 MS TEOFILOVICI: Members of the StenoTran 532 1 Commission, I am Elaine Teofilovici, Chief Executive 2 Officer of the YWCA of/du Canada. 3 2221 The YWCA of/du Canada is the national 4 office for 42 YWCAs that work in over 200 communities. 5 For more than a century, the YWCA has served women and 6 their families. Each year, more than 1 million clients 7 who reflect the diversity of all Canadians benefit from 8 our programs and services that including housing, 9 employment and literacy, childcare, health and wellness 10 and so on. 11 2222 A number of our associations also 12 provide specific programs to address the needs of 13 immigrant and refugee women, such as second-language 14 learning, settlement services, programming for refugee 15 children, shelters and residences, employment, training 16 and refugee sponsorship programs. 17 2223 The YWCA also organizes an annual 18 anti-violence public awareness campaign, the YWCA Week 19 Without Violence. Last year CFMT voluntarily supported 20 the campaign by producing and airing public service 21 announcements. No mainstream broadcaster would have 22 looked at us twice, yet a campaign like ours addresses 23 important messages that touch all Canadians and seeks 24 to raise awareness in all communities, including 25 ethnocultural ones. StenoTran 533 1 2224 CFMT's support underlines the value 2 that ethnic broadcasters place in supporting community 3 events and important Canadian issues. 4 2225 Given its long history of working 5 with women, the YWCA would like to present its views on 6 a few issues identified by the Commission. 7 2226 One key element of the current ethnic 8 broadcasting policy is the expectation that all 9 broadcasters, including English, French and ethnic, 10 will provide programming that reflects the 11 multicultural character of Canada. English and French 12 broadcasting services have made some efforts to reflect 13 Canada's multicultural nature in faces and names that 14 appear on television and radio. However, ethnocultural 15 context on mainstream broadcasting services remains 16 very small and, consequently, members of the 17 ethnocultural community rarely find programming and 18 information that specifically addresses their needs. 19 2227 The Commission is also asking the 20 importance of programming areas A through E in view of 21 Canada's increasing ethnocultural diversity. 22 Programming Types B, C and E should be given more 23 effort by mainstream radio and television programming 24 since they serve French and English communities, and 25 immigrants whose first or common bond language in the StenoTran 534 1 country of their national origin is French or English. 2 The content of Type B and C programming should not only 3 reflect our Canadian reality, but also inform new 4 immigrants and refugees of community services, as well 5 as promote messages of public interest. 6 2228 We identify Type E programming as the 7 best vehicle to promote intercultural exchange between 8 mainstream and ethnocultural communities. In our 9 opinion, it is the type of programming that would best 10 reflect our Canadian mosaic. The reality is that 11 ethnocultural groups in Canada live with relatively 12 peaceful boundaries, but do not necessarily integrate 13 with each other. But, more importantly, the larger 14 mainstream public still knows very little about new 15 Canadians. 16 2229 More original format of Type E 17 programming are needed as it is probably the least 18 produced by mainstream broadcasters, and yet has the 19 most potential to share cultural diversity from the 20 mainstream community to the ethnic communities and vice 21 versa. 22 2230 On the other hand, Type A programming 23 should be the main focus of ethnic radio and television 24 broadcasters as their goal is to serve existing and 25 emerging ethnocultural communities. Third-language StenoTran 535 1 programming is not financially advantageous to 2 broadcasters. It is a reality of ethnic broadcasters 3 that cross-subsidization must exist if they are to 4 fulfil their mandates. In this context, should public 5 money be given to support ethnic broadcasting? How can 6 ethnic broadcasters produce a variety of quality 7 standards without financial support? Should we not 8 consider pro-rata support for ethnic broadcasters? 9 2231 Another key element of the ethnic 10 broadcasting policy is the expectation that members of 11 the ethnocultural community will have access to a wide 12 choice and diversity of third-language programming from 13 a variety of sources, including cable, community 14 channels, multilingual radio and television stations, 15 and specialty and pay television areas. 16 2232 The availability of specialty and pay 17 television services complements but is not a substitute 18 for third-language programming that is freely available 19 to all on television and radio. Many new members of 20 ethnocultural communities do not have available funds 21 to pay for additional third-language programming. 22 Immigrant women who are also single mother shave a 23 greater need for free third languages programming, as 24 they traditionally earn lower wages than their male 25 counterparts and often lack a network to assist them. StenoTran 536 1 2233 The Commission is also asking whether 2 priority should be placed on Canadian ethnic 3 broadcasting services rather than importing foreign 4 services. 5 2234 Foreign programming in third 6 languages is an important source of entertainment and 7 information for members of ethnocultural groups. It 8 also provides a valuable link to current events in 9 homeland countries and cultural traditions. 10 2235 However, foreign programming is not a 11 substitute for Canadian programming in third languages. 12 Moreover, Canadian programming in third languages 13 continues to become more important as the proportion of 14 immigrants who speak neither official language rises. 15 2236 Foreign programming does not 16 necessarily reflect the reality of life in Canada. it 17 often presents information, conveys values or addresses 18 social issues in ways that are fundamentally at odds 19 with how things are done in Canada. In particular, the 20 manner in which women are depicted in Canada and in 21 other countries can vary greatly. Canadian programming 22 can inform viewers of Canadian customs and ensures that 23 women are represented as citizens with full rights and 24 equal opportunities. 25 2237 Third language Canadian programming StenoTran 537 1 also plays an important role of strengthening and 2 uniting ethnocultural groups by providing information 3 about community events and association or club 4 activities. This programming helps women and their 5 families to connect with other members of their 6 community and decrease any sense of isolation that they 7 may feel in the larger Canadian context. 8 2238 In recent years, many programs that 9 were offered to immigrants have been cut or have become 10 less accessible, creating a void of assistance and of 11 second-language training. These new policies affect 12 immigrants, especially women, who are not eligible for 13 second-language training after a certain period of 14 time. 15 2239 Refugee women who do not speak French 16 or English need a great deal of assistance. Typically, 17 the women we serve come to Canada sponsored by their 18 husband, stay at home with their children and become 19 isolated from mainstream society, not having the 20 opportunity to learn a new language and being forbidden 21 to change traditions of their original culture. Many 22 are in a stage of unacceptable illiteracy and 23 isolation. 24 2240 We cannot realistically think that 25 the mainstream broadcasters would consider programming StenoTran 538 1 that targets issues of importance to immigrant and 2 refugee women. Ethnic broadcasters, however, can 3 create programming that addresses the needs expressed 4 by these women. For example, programming that directly 5 impacts women's ability to participate fully in the 6 democratic process and to be fully informed of their 7 rights as women. 8 2241 Unfortunately, most broadcasters 9 consider women as a target for advertisers and do not 10 really respond to the needs of women, especially those 11 who immigrate to Canada. How many broadcasters are 12 women friendly? I would argue that really not many at 13 all. The representation I have seen in this room 14 tonight certainly stresses my point. Yet women compose 15 a large segment of the daytime listeners and they are 16 still the ones who oversee their children's viewing and 17 listening habits. Although the Commission has not 18 addressed this particular issue, I feel it is my role 19 to raise it. 20 2242 In conclusion, the YWCA recognizes 21 the value of ethnic programming as the primary vehicle 22 for bridging intercultural barriers, informing and 23 educating new Canadians, promoting culture sharing and 24 helping women in accessing critical information and 25 services which they and their families need. StenoTran 539 1 2243 Finally, ethnic broadcasters 2 represent one of the only sources that NGOs can access 3 to promote critical social messages to ethnocultural 4 communities. 5 2244 Thank you for listening. 6 2245 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms 7 Teofilovici. 8 2246 MS RHÉAUME: Next, Mr. Syed Daud and 9 Mr. Zaki Agha. Mr. Syed Daud. 10 2247 The following presentation then would 11 be Thiru Thiruchelvan. 12 2248 THE CHAIRPERSON: Maybe I scared 13 everyone away with my strictness. 14 2249 MS RHÉAUME: Some people left for 15 dinner and may be back, rolling in slowly, so we will 16 go back over them later on. 17 2250 Mr. Mark Mykytiuk. 18 2251 Ms Clara Dos Santos. 19 2252 MS DOS SANTOS: I am here. 20 2253 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will wait for 21 you. Go ahead. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 2254 MS DOS SANTOS: My name is Clara Dos 24 Santos and I am representing Casa do Alentejo Community 25 Centre of Toronto, one of the largest and most StenoTran 540 1 important organizations in the Portuguese community of 2 Canada, referred to by many as one of the mainstakes of 3 Portuguese culture in North America. 4 2255 We have an art gallery, an excellent 5 library, a theatre group and a very dynamic youth 6 group, the majority of whose members are born in 7 Canada. 8 2256 With a membership of about 600 active 9 members, we are the recipient of the cultural award of 10 the University of Oporto, the diploma of honour of the 11 Secretary of State for the Communities Abroad at the 12 Foreign Office in Lisbon, have won a variety of awards 13 for our participation in the Toronto International 14 Caravan, including the top prize. We publish our own 15 magazine and receive regular support from the 16 municipalities of the Province of Alentejo, an area 17 covering virtually half of the Portuguese territory. 18 2257 Nous prenons les affairs de la 19 Culture bien au sérieux et nous vous remercions par 20 l'opportunitée de nous écouter ce soir. Notre but est 21 de vous expliquer comme le présent systéme de 22 programmation ethnoculturelle aide les 23 nouveaux-arrivées dan le procés d'intégration au 24 Canasda. Nous croyons même qu'ils fonctionnent bien. 25 2258 Ethnic programs, especially on StenoTran 541 1 television, help those whose English is limited, 2 teaching them about their new country, its laws, health 3 and legal systems and also what is happening in their 4 own communities and in Canada as a whole. 5 2259 We support our ethnocultural media 6 because it is the only way we can be aware of how the 7 community pulsates. Also, the mainstream media, which 8 we can also depend upon, will never have the mandate or 9 the capacity to cover what goes on in the different 10 communities, excepting when something very special 11 occurs -- very often negative reports. We have no 12 illusions about any foreseeable change. 13 2260 Nous appuyons inconditionellement la 14 politiquemulticulturelle du gouvernement du Canada, 15 surtout à ce qui concerne nos langues et culture 16 matternelles, qu'elle a mantenu plus au moins intacte. 17 Au contraire de ce qui pensent des esprits moins 18 ouverts pour la réalités de nos jours, mantenir vivante 19 la langue et la culture nous aide a mieux nos intégrer 20 au sein de la societé canadienne. 21 2261 It is not possible to be a good 22 Canadian without understanding and being proud about 23 the culture of our ancestors, no matter where they are 24 coming from. 25 2262 Having access to television programs StenoTran 542 1 from the country of origin is like a window to the 2 world. As a matter of fact, it seems a bit strange 3 that at a time when everyone is aware of the 4 globalization through the new technologies, there are 5 those who want to slow an irreversible process. 6 2263 We, at Casa do Alentejo, are not 7 worried about losing our Canadian identity because we 8 have access to a program from portuguese TV regularly 9 in our cable system. At least, they are more 10 educational and more adequate for the children than the 11 violent ones imported from the United States that have 12 nothing to do with our roots, past or present. 13 2264 Les programmes importés de nos pays 14 d'origine sont trés importants pour nos informer et 15 renseigner au sujet de ce qui se passe au monde. Ceux, 16 produits au Canada, sont trés souvent la seule source 17 d'information pour des milliers de Canadiens d'autres 18 souches. Ce qui est trés important pour tous. 19 2265 We are Canadians first and we do not 20 have identity problems with that. We feel very 21 strongly that a balanced approach in supporting 22 programs from abroad and programs produced here in 23 third languages, reflecting our differences, are of the 24 utmost importance for Canada. 25 2266 Parce que nous parlons plusieurs StenoTran 543 1 langues et avons la capacitée de vivre bien entre deux 2 cultures, ça ne veut pas du tout dire que nous sommes 3 moins canadiens. 4 2267 We reiterate our support for programs 5 in third languages, the support for the maintenance of 6 our culture, the ability to understand the values and 7 the cultural heritage of our parents and would hate to 8 see our original culture dealt with in the same way 9 that indifference, lack of understanding and sheer 10 ignorance treated our brothers and sisters of the 11 aboriginal communities of Canada. 12 2268 The mistakes we make today will be 13 very costly for our children and grandchildren in the 14 future. 15 2269 Merci beaucoup pour votre attention. 16 2270 Thank you very much. 17 2271 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 18 much, Ms Dos Santos. It was good timing. You arrived 19 just at the right moment. 20 2272 MS RHÉAUME: Next is Briget Savari, 21 Director of Outreach Organization. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 2273 MS SAVARI: Commissioners, ladies and 24 gentlemen. My name is Bridget Savari. I am a social 25 worker. I work with families who speak third StenoTran 544 1 languages. 2 2274 I came to Canada in 1973 and have 3 made this beautiful country as my homeland, even though 4 I pay high taxes. I am fortunate that I have good 5 command of the English language. However, some of the 6 families I work with have either little or no command 7 of English or French languages. 8 2275 Although today I am representing 9 Outreach Association, I am also involved in social and 10 community organizations where i meet people from all 11 walks of life. 12 2276 Outreach Association is a community 13 organization involved in assisting new immigrants to 14 integrate in Canadian society. Our activities range 15 from guiding them in job search, to adapt to the 16 Canadian way of life, as well as teaching them English. 17 We hold community events and introduce them to their 18 own community organization for fellowship. 19 2277 I am deeply involved with community 20 activities that include volunteering for day centre for 21 seniors, Gems of Hope and Heart and Stroke Foundation, 22 to name a few. 23 2278 My community activities often takes 24 me to apartment complexes in George Town, Don Mills and 25 Crescent Town, just to mention a few. StenoTran 545 1 2279 Canada's openness in accepting people 2 from different cultures and backgrounds has created a 3 cultural mosaic. Canada's multicultural policies are 4 helping to preserve art and culture and flourish in 5 various ethnic groups. 6 2280 Although I come in contact with 7 various ethnic communities, my prime contact is with 8 South Asians. Therefore, I will focus this 9 presentation on the South Asian community. However, i 10 am sure that most of my remarks and concerns will also 11 apply to other ethnic communities and other third 12 languages. 13 2281 Before I start my presentation, let 14 me congratulate the CRTC for the approval of Asian 15 Television Network, ATN, which is licensed to provide 16 24 hours, seven days a week service, to South Asian 17 community from coast to coast. ATN is the only channel 18 which provides programming in various South Asian 19 languages. 20 2282 ATN channel has been a blessing to 21 those of us who can afford and who can get this 22 channel. It has not only entertained us, but also has 23 kept us in touch with South Asian culture and arts. 24 2283 ATN's coverage of local news and 25 cultural events has encouraged the art and culture to StenoTran 546 1 flourish in the community. 2 2284 The community events are more 3 successful because of the free publicity given by Asian 4 Television network. 5 2285 Let us examine the needs of the 6 people whose mother tongue is not English or French. 7 Most of these people are new immigrants who have come 8 to Canada in the past 20 years. Some of them have 9 fully integrated to Canadian society. However, some 10 still feel isolated, particularly women, senior 11 citizens. They miss their music, dance and cultural 12 activities. 13 2286 The South Asian channel was licensed 14 by the CRTC for 24 hours of programming. However, the 15 cable companies are not providing ATN channel. The 16 South Asian community is being deprived of the 17 opportunities to tune in the ATN channel. 18 2287 The only choice left to them is to 19 buy the satellite dish. They are willing to pay the 20 extra monthly fees to get ATN, but they cannot afford 21 to pay $700 for the satellite dish. This extra cost is 22 beyond their means. 23 2288 Furthermore, as we all know, many of 24 the new immigrants when they arrive they live in 25 apartment buildings. there are restrictions about StenoTran 547 1 having satellite dishes on the balconies. Some 2 apartment buildings already include cable facilities in 3 the rent. South Asians have no access to ATN service 4 because cable companies do not carry it. 5 2289 The fact is cable companies are not 6 carrying ATN channel. They claim they do not have dial 7 capacity. Yet, they have space for non-Canadian 8 channels. 9 2290 Cable companies have also delayed the 10 launch of digital system. Rogers has not yet launched 11 its service. Shaw's digital service is available only 12 to 50,000 customers. That too is with an additional 13 cost. 14 2291 I receive many complaints from South 15 Asian families and in particular from seniors. They 16 feel their Canadian friends don't have to pay an 17 additional cost for various channels. This additional 18 monthly fee is a puzzle to them. 19 2292 Further, I fully support Canada has 20 to safeguard Canadian culture. I do not agree that 21 Canada should forego from this policy. Canadian 22 programs promote local talents, gives opportunity to 23 Canadian artists and creates additional employment for 24 Canadians. I strongly feel that the present policy on 25 Canadian programming content should be maintained. StenoTran 548 1 2293 Therefore, I would like to conclude 2 my presentation. The present broadcasting policy does 3 not adequately serve the ethnoculture. 4 2294 The cable companies must be forced to 5 speed up the network. More access should be provided 6 to channels like Asian Television network on all cable 7 systems. 8 2295 Thank you. 9 2296 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 10 much, Ms Savari. 11 2297 MS RHÉAUME: The next group will be 12 CHUM-TV, Peter Miller, Vice-President and Sarah 13 Crawford. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 2298 MS CRAWFORD: Good evening, 16 Commissioners, fellow presenters, ladies and gentlemen. 17 We are very pleased to appear on behalf of CHUM 18 Television on this the last day of the public 19 consultations here in Toronto on the Commission's Third 20 Language and Ethnic Programming Consultation. 21 2299 First, allow me to introduce our 22 panel: with me are Traci Melchor to my left, 23 Entertainment Specialist on CityPulse News and CP24, 24 CHUM's regional 24-hours a day news channel; Peter 25 Miller on my right, Vice-President, Business and StenoTran 549 1 Regulatory Affairs for CHUM Television and Jay Switzer, 2 Vice-President Programming, CHUM Television; and I am 3 Sarah Crawford, Director of Media Education for CHUM 4 Television and Director of Communications for MuchMusic 5 and MuchMoreMusic, and I am also the Chair of the 6 Canadian Association of Broadcasters' Joint Societal 7 Trends and Issues Committee. 8 2300 Now, to begin. As you are probably 9 aware, we don't bring the perspective of an ethnic 10 broadcaster, but of a broadcaster who has made 11 multi-ethnic and multicultural reflection part of our 12 defining philosophy. 13 2301 Tonight we would like to outline the 14 unique role that our company, CHUM Television, has 15 played in broadcasting in reflecting the multicultural 16 and multiethnic makeup of this country, to share some 17 of the lessons that we have learned and to offer some 18 thoughts on what they might mean for your ethnic 19 policy. 20 2302 We will file more detailed written 21 comments on aspects of the Commission's policy on March 22 4. 23 2303 Before we begin our remarks, we would 24 also like to say how impressed we have been with the 25 breadth of representation at this public consultation StenoTran 550 1 and with the eloquent and heartfelt views that you have 2 heard, many of which we share. 3 2304 As you heard yesterday from Lenny 4 Lombardi of CHIN, CHUM's first involvement in ethnic 5 broadcasting in Canada actually predates the creation 6 of Citytv; it was in 1950 that Allan Waters, founder 7 and CEO of CHUM Radio, sold airtime to CHIN-Radio 8 founder Johnny Lombardi to air Italian programming. 9 But we are here to talk about the television side of 10 the business. 11 2305 Citytv was founded in 1971 by four 12 people: among them a Russian immigrant, moses Znaimer; 13 and one of the first and most influential female 14 programmers and executives in Canadian television 15 broadcasting, Phyllis Switzer, who, I might add, is jay 16 Switzer's mother. 17 2306 Here at CHUM Television, our 18 programming philosophy stems from what we originally 19 proposed, and you accepted, back when Citytv was 20 licensed in 1971. Our mission was to focus on local, 21 movies and music, and to be uniquely different. To 22 produce, and I am quoting now, "live, vital programming 23 directed to and reflective of the Toronto community, 24 feature Toronto people, provide public access 25 programming and serve as an outlet for local Toronto StenoTran 551 1 retail advertisers." 2 2307 That's what we tried to do on day one 3 of our business, and it's what we have continued to do. 4 And when our broadcasting activities took us onto the 5 national stage when we ventured into the specialty 6 television arena, we extended that philosophy to 7 reflect the diversity of communities and people we 8 serve, to truly reflect our audience on the air. 9 2308 In fact, we would like to underline 10 the fact that we don't see ourselves as broadcasters 11 who provide special coverage of ethnic communities. 12 Rather, we see ourselves as broadcasters whose defining 13 editorial and business philosophy and mandate is to 14 reflect and provide on-air coverage of Canada and 15 Canadians; plain and simple. 16 2309 In other words, we have always seen 17 the ethnically and culturally diverse audience as 18 first, when we started Citytv, a Toronto reality, and 19 second when we got into specialty television, a 20 Canadian reality. 21 2310 Over our 26-year history, Citytv has 22 been committed to reflecting those diverse communities 23 that it serves. It is fair to say that City broke new 24 ground in broadcasting by doing that very simple thing: 25 we put people on the air who didn't look like StenoTran 552 1 conventional "TV people" but who did look like Toronto. 2 2311 Here's a quote from Citytv founder, 3 President and Executive producer, Moses Znaimer, that 4 is taken from Citytv's 15th Anniversary Special 5 television program: 6 "Central to the idea of Citytv 7 from the very beginning was this 8 winning realization: That since 9 the Second World War, the 10 population of Toronto had 11 undergone a radical change. 12 Actually, it wasn't very 13 difficult for a guy called 14 Znaimer to figure out that 'the 15 ethnics' had arrived. We 16 decided therefore to reflect 17 that fact, not only as a matter 18 of fair play, but also as a 19 matter of good business." 20 2312 In other words, we have always known 21 what some people are just starting to figure out: that 22 being truly reflective of the communities we serve 23 simply makes sense. 24 2313 We have always made our on-air people 25 representative of our diverse community, and they have StenoTran 553 1 become role models who implicitly advertise our hiring 2 practices to the public. The message is: Everybody's 3 welcome, everyone belongs. 4 2314 MS MELCHOR: Everyone at Citytv and 5 our other CHUM stations are deeply involved in the 6 communities we serve. We support thousands of 7 community organizations at both the local, regional and 8 national levels through promotion of their events and 9 initiatives, donation of goods and services, and -- in 10 the case of our on-air staff, such as myself -- by 11 making appearances and speeches. 12 2315 We are available regularly to speak 13 to schools about training and careers in broadcasting. 14 We have participated in thousands of local and national 15 career fairs and seminars, some of which are 16 specifically targeted to the many communities we serve. 17 I have volunteered with Each One Teach One. It's a 18 mentoring program that pairs teens of African descent 19 with adults working in the fields they wish to pursue 20 and I had the unique opportunity of working with a 21 group of various people from media outlets in the 22 spring of 1995 at Carleton University, School of 23 Journalism, putting together a diversity report. 24 2316 We also work with schools and 25 colleagues and industry organizations to develop StenoTran 554 1 mentoring relationships and career opportunities. In 2 addition, our company sponsors scholarships in various 3 aspects of television career education and training. 4 2317 This week, the Toronto Star profiled 5 the challenges which people of colour face in seeking 6 careers in journalism. The piece describes the 7 experience of one of our CityPulse specialists, Jojo 8 Chintoh, and how tough it was for him to get started in 9 broadcast journalism. Citytv gave him the break he 10 needed and he is now a veteran award-winning 11 broadcaster with more than 25 years' experience. 12 2318 I would just like to add a personal 13 note that I grew up watching Jojo and the reason that i 14 did want to work at Citytv is because I did see people 15 that looked like me on television. 16 2319 MR. SWITZER: The other key element 17 of ethnocultural reflection at Citytv is our weekend 18 schedule with CHIN. Citytv is a conventional 19 broadcaster that carries third-language broadcasting, 20 10 hours a week of some of the most popular Canadian 21 third language programming available throughout 22 Ontario, and on satellite to viewers across the 23 country. CHIN-TV has been a successful part and I must 24 add an excellent partner doing extraordinary work of 25 our schedule for close to 15 years. StenoTran 555 1 2320 Each of our CHUM stations recognizes 2 and serves diverse audiences by reflecting them on the 3 air and by covering local and regional events, news and 4 views that they care about. This approach has been 5 applied to all of our services, and reflects the 6 stations' respective markets. For example, Cable Pulse 7 24 airs a show called Daily planet that harvests and 8 rebroadcasts local news shows from around the globe, 9 mostly in the original language. 10 2321 As the Commission and many 11 participants here have recognized, an examination of 12 the CRTC's ethnic policy has to address two somewhat 13 conflicting trends. First, technology. More channels 14 and increasing channels leads to niche and microniche 15 ethnic services. 16 2322 Secondly, changes in demographics. 17 An increasing ethnic population leads to greater 18 mainstream reflection. 19 2323 In Toronto, having almost hit the 50 20 per cent market, ethnic broadcasting is now mainstream. 21 The niches are now the languages. Technology, and 22 particularly digital cable, promise ever-expanding 23 ability to serve individual language groups. But 24 greater mainstream reflection of ethnic Canadians, in 25 general, is a responsibility and business opportunity StenoTran 556 1 for all. 2 2324 So what have we learned over the last 3 three decades? 4 2325 First, a flexible, market by market 5 approach is essential. Each of our services are 6 different, and their respective markets are different. 7 What works well for Citytv in Toronto may not be ideal 8 for CFPL in London. Our local management have the 9 autonomy and responsibility to determine what's right 10 for them. 11 2326 Second, for ethnic 12 reflection/programming to work with audiences, an 13 ethnic sensibility has to be part of the corporate 14 culture. Our producers and outside partners can't be 15 trained to do it. They either get it or they don't. 16 We hire and work with people that get it. 17 2327 Third, good ethnic programming, like 18 Canadian programming, can stand on its own. Our local 19 and third-language programming makes a modest return 20 for us and our partners. Most important, we don't need 21 foreign ethnic services, such as BET, that merely make 22 it harder for Canadian services to compete and provide 23 Canadian programming and reflection. 24 2328 Fourth, and finally, the advertising 25 community continues to undervalue and undermeasure StenoTran 557 1 niche ethnic audiences. The good news however is that 2 the industry is recognizing we have to address this 3 better and that means more revenue potential. 4 2329 MR. MILLER: What does this all mean 5 for the Commission's policy? 6 2330 The more we look at it, and the more 7 we hear, suggests to us, at least, that four guiding 8 principles will be key. We would be happy to submit 9 those in writing if you want us to stop now. 10 2331 THE CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead. 11 2332 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You can't 12 leave us without the four principles. 13 2333 MR. MILLER: Fair is fair. 14 2334 THE CHAIRPERSON: Are you going to 15 leave us hanging like that? 16 2335 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We've been 17 waiting for three days for the four principles. 18 2336 THE CHAIRPERSON: Frankly, there are 19 other participants who have been here today who have 20 gone over the 10 minutes, so I guess we could let you 21 have one extra minute. 22 2337 MR. MILLER: I will see what I can do 23 in a minute. 24 2338 First, a one size fits all approach 25 cannot work. The diverse needs of Canadians can only StenoTran 558 1 be met through a diversity of approaches. The 2 Commission should not favour one technology or approach 3 over another. Increasingly, for our part, we see the 4 interests of ethnic Canadians well served by a 5 combination of regional and national ethnic specialty 6 services, and local stations that provide ethnic 7 programming/reflection attuned to the markets they 8 serve. 9 2339 Second, flexibility is key. Market 10 by market, case by case. Just as no one should be 11 required to air ethnic programming, nor should there 12 necessarily be any limits on the ethnic programming 13 done by non-ethnic broadcasters. 14 2340 Third, learn from Toronto, because 15 other major markets will follow. When Citytv went on 16 air, Toronto's ethnic community represented about 10 17 per cent of the total. Now we are at 50 per cent. 18 2341 Similar trends with similar 19 implications for broadcasters will occur in other 20 markets across Canada over the next few decades. The 21 blend of conventional, independent, ethnic and 22 specialty that we have achieved here in Toronto is a 23 pretty good blend. 24 2342 Fourth and final, let's make ethnic 25 programming a business, not merely an obligation. As StenoTran 559 1 suggested by the CAB and others at the Canadian 2 Television Hearing last fall, the cross-subsidy model 3 is breaking down, and will be less and less viable in 4 the future. 5 2343 For Canadian broadcasting to survive 6 and prosper, we must make Canadian programming -- and 7 Canadian ethnic programming -- more of a business. As 8 a consequence, for example, we would see that in major 9 markets with high ethnic populace, be it Toronto, 10 Calgary or Vancouver, ethnic broadcasters should 11 increasingly be able to meet the same Cancon 12 requirements as conventional stations. 13 2344 We greatly appreciate this 14 opportunity to appear before you today and share our 15 thoughts and look forward to filing more detailed 16 comments a little later. 17 2345 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thanks very much to 18 all of you and that was a very quick wrap-up, Mr. 19 Miller -- much quicker than usual. 20 2346 Madam Secretary, I wonder if you 21 would mind doing a roll call and we will see how many 22 people are here and then we can sort of determine 23 whether or not we will take a break now and come back 24 and finish everyone off or charge ahead. 25 2347 MS RHÉAUME: All right. StenoTran 560 1 2348 Mr. Syed Daud and Zaki Agha. Mr. 2 Thiru Thiruchelvan. Mr. Mark Myktytiuk. Jag 3 Awatramani. Ramesh Chotai. Mr. Neeti Ray. Mr. 4 Babikian. Rebecca Lin and Bao Sum Chen. Mr. Stan 5 Krol. Mr. Clyde McNeil. Mr. Larry Merkopoulos. Mr. 6 John Ha. Mr. Spyros Bourdorkis. Dr. Judith Pilowsky. 7 Ms Agnieszka Marszalek. That's it. 8 2349 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. La Marca? 9 2350 MS RHÉAUME: Mr. La Marca had advised 10 that he would probably not make it. 11 2351 THE CHAIRPERSON: So how many do we 12 have? 13 2352 MS RHÉAUME: Six. 14 2353 THE CHAIRPERSON: We are going to 15 take a break for 15 minutes right now until nine 16 o'clock. We will come back and finish. I think we 17 have six parties left to go. It looks like we are not 18 going to be here until 11:30 tonight. 19 --- Short recess at 2045 / Courte suspension à 2045 20 --- Upon resuming at 2100 / Reprise à 2100 21 2354 THE CHAIRPERSON: Welcome back, 22 ladies and gentlemen. We are on the home stretch or in 23 the eleventh inning or the ninth inning -- which inning 24 is it? Obviously I don't play baseball. 25 2355 Madam Secretary, would you please StenoTran 561 1 call the next party. 2 2356 MS RHÉAUME: Yes. Mr. Syed Daud and 3 Mr. Zaki Agha. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 2357 DR. DAUD: Good evening, ladies and 6 gentlemen. My name is Dr. Syed Aslam Daud. I am the 7 President of Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association, which 8 is an auxiliary organization of Ahmadiyya Muslim 9 Community. We are a non-profit organization with 10 membership worldwide, including all across Canada. 11 2358 For many years we have been involved 12 in broadcasting programs in Canada in many languages. 13 These languages include English, Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi 14 and Arabic. However, the main language that is widely 15 understood among our viewers and listeners is Urdu. 16 Urdu is in fact a refined product of many languages 17 that includes hindi, Arabic and Persian languages. So, 18 it is widely understood among Indians, Bangladesh, some 19 Persian and Afghanistan and especially Pakistan. 20 2359 We have a 24 hour satellite broadcast 21 network popularly known as Muslim Television Ahmadiyya 22 and we also produce a radio program in the Greater 23 Toronto Area. This broadcast is called Radio 24 Ahmadiyya. 25 2360 The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community StenoTran 562 1 believes in unity of humanity, but it realizes the 2 importance of and acknowledges distinct identity of 3 various societies. We believe that each society or 4 culture lot of good values that it can contribute to 5 the world. We believe that language plays an important 6 role in development of societies and also it is a vital 7 ingredient in survival of a culture. 8 2361 Canada offers a multicultural society 9 and promotes ethnic values. This makes Canada the 10 number one country in the world. If we are going to 11 continue promoting multiculturalism and tolerance in 12 our society, then we must accommodate other languages 13 and promote these cultures by acknowledging there 14 language needs. 15 2362 There have been many organizations in 16 the world who have tried their best to come up with one 17 international language or they have tried to recognize 18 at least one language as an international language. 19 All these efforts have failed. The reason being that 20 we cannot force a language over a society. Language 21 takes a natural course of evolution. It changes, it 22 develops, it mixes, it marries other languages and 23 sometimes it dies also. This is always a natural 24 process. 25 2363 One cannot claim that one language is StenoTran 563 1 superior over another. A person is always comfortable 2 and he can express better in his or her mother tongue. 3 In fact, the intelligence and performance of a person 4 can be enhanced by providing him communication 5 environment in which he or she is more comfortable. We 6 should not be naive enough to think that one will 7 forget his mother tongue or will quickly adapt to a new 8 language to adapt to a new society. This is a life 9 long process. 10 2364 This is why we are seeing a growing 11 number of TV and radio programs in other languages, 12 that is not including English and French. We are also 13 seeing new publications in ethnic languages regularly. 14 A visit to a local grocery store in any community will 15 prove that a large number of new multicultural 16 newspapers and magazines are coming out on a regular 17 basis. 18 2365 As long as Canada is going to 19 encourage immigration and as long as people choose 20 Canada as their home, we will see an evolution of many 21 languages and we will have to support this evolution if 22 we wish to maintain a healthy multicultural society. 23 2366 Our broadcasts are used as a tool of 24 information. Since the late eighties, the Asian 25 community has accelerated its numbers in the thousands, StenoTran 564 1 in the hundreds of thousands. These immigrants rely on 2 broadcasts and publications such as ours to guide them 3 in almost every single matter in their daily lives. 4 For example, we tell them where to go and get 5 groceries, how they can get some information about 6 lawyers, doctors and other services. 7 2367 Canada is being recognized for its 8 role in multiculturalism. That is why when CBC aired 9 the question on who is a Canada a while back, it 10 concluded that Canada is a unique country committed to 11 adapting cultural values in a distinct society. When 12 you inherit a culture you are not only inheriting a way 13 of life, but also inheriting the language of that 14 culture. 15 2368 We have a large number of aging 16 population who will never learn English or French, as 17 it is impossible for them to learn a new language at 18 this age. And there is a huge number who will always 19 speak their mother tongue whenever they get a chance or 20 whenever it is possible. 21 2369 So, it is important that we realize 22 the need for a third language in Canada. 23 2370 I thank you very much for giving me 24 this time to present the needs of this language. Thank 25 you. StenoTran 565 1 2371 I will now request my counterpart to 2 have a few minutes. 3 2372 MR. AGHA: I guess I can speak in 4 stereo, use two microphones. 5 2373 I will be very brief. I just have a 6 couple of points that I feel are really worthwhile for 7 this Commission to hear. 8 2374 The first one, and they are both 9 related to economical benefits of having another 10 language. So far we have been hearing everything about 11 the cultural aspect, but I think this aspect may have 12 been overlooked. 13 2375 The two benefits that I perceive can 14 benefit the Canadian economy very much relate to having 15 the languages available to the various ethnic 16 background. Most of the immigrants currently are 17 coming in the form of young professionals who are 18 already qualified to enter the workforce straight away. 19 2376 Their formative years have been spent 20 in the country of their native origin. They are able 21 to converse in English, but not as nicely as they could 22 if they had been brought up here. As such, as they 23 grow older, they are able to communicate, but their 24 mother tongue and their proficiency stays in their 25 mother tongue. StenoTran 566 1 2377 If we don't have services or if we 2 don't have provisions for them that they can look 3 forward to when they retire, they may lose the interest 4 to stick around. We already have some of the harshest 5 weather and not having a language or some other thing 6 to relate to does not help the situation. And, in all 7 likelihood, we can see a drainage of these people when 8 they are at the maximum age and that is at retirement. 9 That is when they have all these pensions, money that 10 is coming to them and if they are not around then all 11 of this money may result in a huge cash outflow from 12 this country. 13 2378 We see a similar experience every 14 year in the form of snowbirds when they go south to get 15 the warmer sun. 16 2379 The last aspect that I would like to 17 touch on is the issue of the Canadian mosaic. As 18 Canadians we pride ourselves at being the Canadian 19 mosaic, unlike the melting pot like our neighbour. 20 This Canadian mosaic can only be kept alive if we have 21 languages to support them. Otherwise we will be a 22 Canadian mosaic just like a picture on a wall which is 23 very colourful, but lacks life. 24 2380 So, I believe for these two reasons 25 we should continue to consider having alternative StenoTran 567 1 languages and not limit ourselves, and because I 2 believe this will continue to promote the uniqueness of 3 being a Canadian. 4 2381 Thank you very much. 5 2382 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 6 much, gentlemen. 7 2383 MS RHÉAUME: I will try again the 8 next two presenters to see if they have arrived. Mr. 9 Thiru Thiruchelvan. Mr. Mark Mykytiuk. 10 2384 We will then move to Mr. Jag 11 Awatramani of the Sindhi Association. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 2385 MR. AWATRAMANI: Commissioners, 14 ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jag Awatramani. I am 15 a management consultant. 16 2386 I came to Canada in 1968 and have 17 adopted this wonderful and beautiful country as my 18 home. During my business career, many times I had the 19 opportunity to move to the U.S., but I chose to remain 20 in Canada. I like Canadian multicultural philosophy 21 over melting pot concept in the U.S. 22 2387 Although I represent today Sindhi 23 Cultural Association, I am also actively involved in 24 various business, social and cultural organizations. 25 During these activities I come in contact with StenoTran 568 1 Canadians from all walks of life. 2 2388 Sindhi Cultural Association is a 3 vibrant organization promoting fellowship among Sindhi 4 community from India. Sindhis are originally from 5 province of Sindh, which is now part of pakistan. 6 Sindhis migrated to India after partition of India and 7 Pakistan in 1947. As a cultural association we hold 8 social events and we participate in various other 9 Indo-Canadian activities. Sindhis have their own 10 language and have distinctive alphabets similar to 11 Arabic and Persian. 12 2389 My other activities include community 13 work as a Rotarian with the Willowdale club, 14 volunteering for Gems of Hope and Heart and Stroke 15 Foundation, member of Executive Committee for 16 Indo-Canada Advisory Group and Board Member for 17 Outreach International. 18 2390 Prior to venturing as consultant, I 19 was Vice-President for ADT Security Services, a large 20 multinational company and have more than 30 years' 21 experience in business. 22 2391 I am on the advisory committee for 23 Asian Television Network which received licence from 24 the Commission to broadcast 24 hours a day, seven day s 25 a week to South Asian community. In fact, I had the StenoTran 569 1 privilege of appearing in person before the Commission 2 as a member of the ATN team during its successful bid. 3 2392 Having stated my background, I wish 4 to bring to your attention my observations as follows: 5 2393 Before I give my comments, let me 6 describe some of the problems third language speaking 7 immigrants face in this country. They find themselves 8 isolated from their culture. They feel lost. They 9 spend most of their time confines of their home. This 10 especially true of women and senior citizens. Some of 11 them do not speak English. They feel depressed. Their 12 outside activities are often limited to a few community 13 events. They long to see a face they can identify to. 14 When they turn on TV, they see faces they cannot 15 identify with and culture they have not adopted to. 16 They long for their culture and want to hear voices in 17 their own languages. They want to hear music of their 18 land. 19 2394 It takes many years of adjustments 20 before one feels part of Canadian culture. Even after 21 being in this country for a long time, one does not 22 loose roots. Everyone enjoys and appreciates his 23 culture, art, dance and music. 24 2395 I am in Canada for 30 years and I 25 have adopted this country -- Canadian culture, but StenoTran 570 1 still I enjoy hearing the Indian music, see Indian 2 dances and see faces and culture of India. Still I can 3 recall how thrilled I was when Indian program was first 4 shown on TV in 1971. 5 2396 At the same time, while changing 6 channels often I pause to enjoy dances from Thailand 7 and Ukraine, acrobats from China or Irish music and 8 dances. This is true multiculture when you can see and 9 enjoy programs from other ethnic communities. 10 2397 We at Sindhi Cultural Association are 11 thrilled that among multitude of South Asian languages 12 ATN intends to broadcast programs also in Sindhi 13 language. ATN has in past covered many of our events 14 and broadcast free of cost Sindhi community events. We 15 really appreciate the support ATN has given to Sindhi 16 community. 17 2398 We are concerned and disappointed 18 that even though ATN was awarded its own channel in 19 1996, it is not available to vast majority of South 20 Asians. One some of us who live in houses and can 21 afford the cost of satellite dish are able to get this 22 channel. 23 2399 Since number of apartment buildings 24 do not allow satellite dishes and since large number of 25 South Asians live in apartment buildings, they are StenoTran 571 1 unable to watch ATN channel. Most of them are recent 2 immigrants with limited means and are still prepared to 3 pay extra to watch ATN channel. 4 2400 Many other families and seniors 5 realize that they will have to pay extra to receive ATN 6 channel, but they cannot afford to pay for satellite 7 dishes. Often this extra cost is beyond their means. 8 2401 Cable companies have given excuses 9 that they do not have a free channel capacity on their 10 dials. We do not buy their excuses. Cable companies 11 are willing and are allowed to carry non-Canadian 12 channels. We do not understand why Canadian channels 13 have not been given priority over non-Canadian 14 channels. 15 2402 Also, we do not understand why cable 16 companies are not moving fast on digital technology. 17 Only Shaw Cable has introduced digital service and even 18 that has been introduced to 50,000 households out of 19 1.5 million houses it serves. Also, we are concerned 20 that cable companies are charging extra for this 21 digital service by way of monthly charge. We hope the 22 CRTC will insist on a fixed term for this charge. 23 2403 Even though ATN has been awarded 24 24-hour channel in 1996, cable companies have not 25 allowed ATN to fulfil its own mandate and meet the StenoTran 572 1 needs of South Asian community. South Asian community, 2 like other third-language communities, has been treated 3 second class by cable companies. 4 2404 The South Asian community is the 5 second largest ethnic community in Ontario. The South 6 Asian community encompasses not only people from India, 7 Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, but also includes 8 people from the Caribbean Islands, East Africa, Fiji, 9 South Africa and Guyana to name a few. Still this 10 community has very limited service on TV. There are 11 some other South Asian programs on TV, but except for 12 ATN none of them is at prime time. 13 2405 Yet, nearly two years have passed 14 since ATN was granted a licence to broadcast 24 hours. 15 The South Asian community has not benefitted and cannot 16 watch and enjoy the South Asian programs every day. 17 2406 At this time, I would like to move to 18 the question of Canadian versus imported programs. We 19 strongly feel that we must have Canadian-produced 20 programming on TV. Canadian-produced programs benefit 21 local talent, creates employment, covers local and 22 community events and above all produces world class 23 artists. In every community there is a talent that 24 needs to be groomed, encouraged and given exposure. 25 There is no better media than television. We in Canada StenoTran 573 1 have depth of local talent, which needs blossoming. 2 Even NAFTA agreement protects Canadian culture. 3 2407 Therefore, we strongly feel that 4 Canadian produced programming should be part of any 5 future CRTC policy. 6 2408 Thank you. 7 2409 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. Awatramani. 9 2410 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 10 Ramesh Chotai of the Hindu Memdir and Lohana. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 2411 MR. CHOTAI: Commissioners, ladies 13 and gentlemen. My name is Ramesh Chotai. I am a 14 pharmacist by profession and am President of General 15 Pharmaceuticals Ltd. and operate a chain of drug 16 stores, and I am also the manufacturer of 17 pharmaceuticals. 18 2412 I was born in Uganda and came to this 19 country after being expelled from Uganda by General Idi 20 Amin. Having arrived in Canada as a refugee, ladies 21 and gentlemen, I became an instant Canadian taxpayer. 22 2413 Canada has been good to me. Canada 23 has been good to my family. Although the Unite Nations 24 has for the past successive years classified Canada as 25 the best country in the world to live in, I must add StenoTran 574 1 that for me and for my family Canada has been the best 2 country to live in since the day we arrived some 27 3 years ago. We are proud to be Canadians. 4 2414 I am a member of the kinsmen Club of 5 Oshawa and I am an active Rotarian. I am President of 6 the hindu Temple and Cultural Centre of Mississauga and 7 a permanent trustee of Sanatan Hindu Temple. I am also 8 the past-President of Lohana Community. I am also a 9 past-President of the Federation of Gujarati 10 Associations. 11 2415 Having given the background, I intend 12 to bring some observations on the following aspects. 13 The ethnic broadcasting policy which was established 14 some 14 years ago needs some modifications. 15 2416 Number two, the introduction of new 16 policy structures which will address the needs of the 17 fast growing ethno-cultural communities. 18 2417 Number three, the accessability of 19 radio and television on channels to these ethnic 20 communities. 21 2418 Ladies and gentlemen, Canada is 22 endowed with a human resources of a kind and magnitude 23 that no other country in the world possesses. We have 24 people in large numbers who speak every language on the 25 globe. Canada is indeed a global village to use StenoTran 575 1 Marshall McLuhan's enduring Canadian coinage. 2 2419 Statistics Canada in its report 3 indicates that 33 per cent of Toronto's population 4 speak languages other than English and French. The 5 percentage of visible minority will be approximately 6 16.3 per cent within the first decade of the new 7 millennium. 8 2420 Let me briefly state one of the 9 biggest challenges faced by non-English or non-French 10 speaking immigrants to our country. In my opinion, 11 they face cultural isolation. This is particularly 12 true for senior citizens in the immigrant community and 13 women with young toddlers. Their world is restricted 14 to sporadic community events and to hear their own 15 language on radio or watch their own programs on 16 television is indeed a treat. 17 2421 I would like to pose a question: How 18 well is our current system of radio and television 19 network serving diverse needs of a culturally diverse 20 country? It brings me to the situation in which Asian 21 Television -- ATN is placed. I am neither a consultant 22 nor an employee nor of the board of directors of Asian 23 Television Network. I understand that this South Asian 24 channel was licensed by the Commission some two years 25 ago and we are indeed grateful for that. Many of us StenoTran 576 1 want access to this service and are prepared to pay for 2 it, but to the dismay of many the ATN service is not 3 available through the cable companies. 4 2422 Ladies and gentlemen, demographics in 5 Toronto clearly indicate that the South Asians form the 6 second largest minority group, yet two years have 7 elapsed and we cannot see the benefit of this 24 hour 8 Asian channel. 9 2423 Today because of the many 10 cross-cultural influences Canadians are interested in 11 different cultures and television and radio could fill 12 this vacuum. A dynamic third language programming 13 policy will, in my opinion, have an enormous impact on 14 the population at large. Social integration is taking 15 place at an alarming pace and it is important that we 16 provide Canadians with knowledge of rich art, culture 17 and talent that exists in different ethnic groups. 18 2424 We are a trading nation committed to 19 peace and understanding. Canada is involved globally 20 in peacekeeping missions and our cause will be further 21 enhanced when we have our young people in tune to the 22 cultural needs of other nations. 23 2425 Finally, we believe that the third 24 language programming policy should be formulated to 25 meet the current and future needs of the fast-changing StenoTran 577 1 society. We trust that the new millennium will see the 2 preservation of third-language channels that are now in 3 operation. these channels must be allowed to expand to 4 their full potential, so that our future generation can 5 reap the benefits and enrich our culture. 6 2426 Talking of radio, I must mention that 7 the leading South Asian radio program, called Radio 8 India, has been serving the South Asian community for 9 the last eight and a half years. Radio Indian provided 10 an adequate amount of radio service to the community 11 with hourly news, public service information and 12 entertainment, eight and a half hours a day, starting 13 at 7:00 p.m. each night, seven days a week. 14 2427 We have depended on Radio india for 15 community news, announcements and musical presentations 16 that made us all feel at home here in Canada. The 17 services provided by Radio India have contributed 18 significantly to the non-profit, charitable and 19 religious organizations of the South Asian community in 20 the Greater Toronto Area. Radio India today is a 21 household name for the South Asians. 22 2428 Unfortunately, in March 1998 Radio 23 india lost all its brokered time on CKTB Radio, which 24 is in St. Catharines. It should be noted that Radio 25 india had to seek air time on a station outside StenoTran 578 1 Toronto, after discovering that it was not possible to 2 obtain that amount of time on a Toronto station in 3 1998. 4 2429 CKTB was subsequently taken over by 5 new owners and being a mainstream station the new 6 owners decided not to have ethnic programs on their 7 radio any more. Today, Radio India is heard only two 8 hours daily. 9 2430 The South Asian community is 10 currently underserved. There is need for more ethnic 11 service for the Toronto area that could serve the 12 numerous underserved groups, South Asians being the 13 largest among them. This will bring the available 14 opportunities for the South Asians at par with other 15 major ethnic groups. 16 2431 Thank you very much. 17 2432 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. Chotai. 19 2433 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 20 Mr. Neeti Ray of the Indian Broadcasting Corporation. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 2434 MR. RAY: Thank you very much. 23 2435 My name is Neeti Prakash Ray. I am a 24 broadcaster and member of numerous community 25 organizations, including the Ethnic Journalists' and StenoTran 579 1 Writers' Club, the Indo-Canada Chamber of Commerce, 2 East Indian Professional Residents of Canada, and I am 3 also the President of a company called Indian Overseas 4 Broadcasting Corporation, which is an Ontario 5 corporation, and produces South Asian radio and 6 television programs. 7 2436 I have lived in Canada since 1973, 8 and have been broadcasting since 1980, when I moved to 9 Edmonton from Toronto and started broadcasting a South 10 Asian language program on CKER Radio, which continued 11 for nine years. In 1989 I moved back to Toronto to 12 start a new South Asian radio program. I contacted 13 every ethnic radio station here in order to obtain 14 brokered air time for my radio program, but all I was 15 offered was an hour or maybe two hours per week during 16 weekdays only. 17 2437 However, we were able to start a 18 radio program in July 1990, not on a Toronto station, 19 not on a Canadian station. In fact, I had to go to 20 Grand Island, new York, just across the border from 21 Niagara Falls, to find one hour on a daily basis for a 22 program targeting the Toronto audience. That radio 23 station had poor coverage of Greater Toronto, and still 24 the outstanding quality and content of that programming 25 called Radio India, provided -- was so well received by StenoTran 580 1 our audience in Toronto, as well as by South Asian 2 businesses in Greater Toronto, that in a matter of 3 months we were in a position to expand the program to 4 two hours or more every day. 5 2438 In January 1991 CKTB Radio, 610 on 6 the AM dial in St. Catharines, agreed to give us two 7 hours daily on weekdays from 10:00 p.m. to 12:00 8 midnight. CKTB Radio's coverage of toronto is better 9 than that of the U.S. radio station, provided about 5 10 millivolt signal strength to GTA, which is far below 11 the adequate coverage signal strength, but we still 12 took that time from CKTB Radio. 13 2439 By 1994 because of the popularity of 14 our program, we were able to expand our program from 15 two hours a day to eight and a half hours a day, seven 16 days a week, from 7:00 p.m onward, every day except on 17 Fridays it was for 11 hours from 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. 18 in the morning, providing eight news bulletins daily in 19 English, Hindi and Urdu, community news, public service 20 announcement and, of course, musical entertainment to 21 Canadians of origin in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, 22 Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Fiji, East Africa and the 23 Caribbean. 24 2440 In 1995 when the spring BBM, the 25 Bureau of Broadcast Measurement was released, I was StenoTran 581 1 happily surprised to see that during our program 2 timing, that is 7:00 p.m. to the time late in the night 3 that BBM measures the radio audience, Radio indian had 4 10 per cent more listening than CFTR 680 News. The 5 average quarter hour listening for CFTR being 8,400 and 6 that of CKTB Radio 7:00 p.m. onward being 8,900 in the 7 full coverage area, but over 90 per cent of that in the 8 Greater Toronto Area. 9 2441 This comparison between our program 10 and CFTR was also published in the Toronto Star right 11 after the ratings came out. 12 2442 By 1997 we were averaging 9,800 13 listeners per quarter hour according to the BBM, with 14 the highest quarter hour listening at 18,200. The 15 weekly cume being about 79,000. There are some other 16 South Asian programming also in Toronto and with due 17 respect to them, the BBM released the ratings of the 18 ethnic radio stations only until spring 1996 because 19 after that they stopped publishing the ratings of the 20 stations that did not subscribe to them, did not pay 21 for the ratings and the ethnic stations were not 22 subscribing to them. 23 2443 That rating in 1996, their last one, 24 showed that the South Asian programs with the next best 25 rating had about one-fifth of our listening. StenoTran 582 1 2444 It is also notable that 40 per cent 2 of all our programming has been ethnic Type E. I must 3 mention that the Type E programming has received a 4 special kind of response that we have been very pleased 5 with, especially the fact that not only the South 6 Asians, but also the non-South Asians, including 7 mainstream English-speaking audience have contacted us 8 in a respectable number to say that they enjoy 9 listening to our programs that are announced in 10 English, including news in English. 11 2445 However, in March last year, 1998, we 12 lost all 61 hours of programming time on CKTB Radio 13 after it was bought and taken over by new owners, 14 Affinity Group, who decided not to have any ethnic 15 programming on CKTB Radio. We scrambled to find time 16 elsewhere, but as expected only a small number of hours 17 were available during weekdays only, nothing on the 18 weekend, which Mr. Angelo Cremisio was very kind enough 19 to offer us on 530 AM, CIAO Radio, Brampton, when he 20 was part-owner of this station at that time. 21 2446 We took the 10 hours per week air 22 time that was available and are continuing to serve the 23 South Asian community in whatever way we can, given the 24 limited time available. That is only two hours a day, 25 five days a week. StenoTran 583 1 2447 The hundreds of calls, faxes, letters 2 and comments and also meetings, there were people 3 meeting us at different congregations, it indicated 4 that the void, the absence of an adequate number of our 5 programming has created needs to be filled. The unique 6 balance and objectivity of presentation that we 7 maintained during our long hours of programming on CkTB 8 Radio puts us in an equally unique position to be able 9 to provide such a balanced programming in the future. 10 A balance that reflects the changing times. Just as 11 the ethnic radio and TV stations must provide a 12 broadly-based service, catering to a number of language 13 groups and ethnic groups, we believe that we no longer 14 can have ethnic Type A programs only because we now 15 have three types of ethnic population here. 16 2448 Number one, those who are newcomers. 17 2449 Number two, those who came here in 18 the past couple of decades, like ourselves. 19 2450 And who are part of the second 20 generation ethnic population, born and brought up here 21 in Canada. 22 2451 Our position is that besides Type A 23 programming which is in our heritage language only, two 24 other types are becoming more and more desirable; Type 25 D programs that include both the heritage language and StenoTran 584 1 English, as well as Type E programs which are in 2 English, targeting both ethnic and mainstream 3 audiences. our organization has kept pace with this 4 changing needs of our communities. 5 2452 I would like to add that for the fact 6 that our organization does not any more have the large 7 number of hours that we used to have for our broadcasts 8 until March 1998, we do not blame the local ethnic 9 radio stations for not being able to provide such time. 10 There are so many language groups that have to be 11 served and, obviously, they will wonder who they should 12 sacrifice in order to accommodate us. But the number 13 of South Asians in Greater Toronto, which is similar to 14 the Chinese population in Greater Toronto, demands the 15 review of the broadcasting policy reflecting ethnic 16 diversity, so that broadcasting services fairly 17 proportionate to the population becomes available. 18 2453 Our organization, in conclusion, 19 therefore, has three suggestions for the CRTC to be 20 able to eliminate the deficiency. 21 2454 Number one, the ethnic broadcasting 22 services for the Greater Toronto Area should be 23 expanded. There is enough revenue in the numerous 24 unserved and underserved ethnic groups, that may be as 25 many as over a dozen in number, including the South StenoTran 585 1 Asians. 2 2455 Number two, the mainstream stations 3 could be encouraged to inculcate ethnic programming in 4 their schedule, even if it during non-prime time, after 5 6;00 p.m. or so, and during weekends. The number of 6 mainstream radio stations in Greater Toronto is out of 7 proportion. Forty-seven per cent of Greater Toronto 8 population is ethnic, while over 75 per cent, close to 9 80 per cent of radio stations are mainstream, English 10 or French, and as little as only six radio stations and 11 that's a little over 20 per cent are ethnic radio 12 stations. So they should consider pitching in. It 13 will be good for some such stations that we know are 14 losing money, while some available ethnic revenue 15 remains unspent. 16 2456 Third, lastly, both ethnic and 17 mainstream radio stations, as well as TV stations, 18 should be encouraged to include Type E programming. 19 Also, it is, therefore, in our opinion very important 20 that the ethnic Type E programs be counted as ethnic 21 content as part of the minimum 60 per cent that ethnic 22 stations have to broadcast. As for the mainstream 23 stations, the Type E programs will in a healthy and 24 significant way bridge the gap between what we call 25 ethnic and the mainstream. StenoTran 586 1 2457 Much obliged. Thank you. 2 2458 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. Ray. 4 2459 If you hadn't told me you were a 5 broadcaster I could have guessed from your voice. 6 That's a radio voice if I ever heard one. 7 2460 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 8 Mr. Aris Babikian, President of the Armenian National 9 Federation. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 2461 MR. BABIKIAN: Good evening, ladies 12 and gentlemen. Thank you, first of all, for the 13 opportunity to come and address issues concerning the 14 multicultural community and Canadian society in 15 general. 16 2462 My name is Aris Babikian. I am the 17 executive director of the Hai Horizon, Armenian Horizon 18 TV program on CFMT. I am also the President of the 19 Armenian National Federation, which is an umbrella 20 organization for the Canadian Armenian community. 21 2463 Hai Horizon is broadcast every 22 Saturday at 9:00 a.m. to our communities in Toronto, 23 Ottawa, Hamilton, Cambridge, St. Catharines and other 24 cities in southern Ontario. Our program is produced in 25 Canada and is 100 per cent Canadian. We also StenoTran 587 1 co-operate and exchange material with our sister 2 program in Montreal. The Armenian Horizon has been on 3 the air for the last 15 years. 4 2464 Hai horizon reaches 40,000 members of 5 the Armenian community of southern Ontario. The 6 program is bilingual, English and Armenian. The 7 content includes entertainment, news, interviews and 8 community events coverage related to the Armenian 9 language, heritage, customs, religion, history and 10 culture. We also try to help newcomers to integrate 11 into the mainstream of Canadian society and become 12 model citizens of Canada. 13 2465 The program is being produced with 14 great sacrifice by the members of our community. The 15 anchors, announcers, writers and researchers are all 16 volunteers. We thank them all. We also acknowledge 17 the generous involvement of CFMT-TV station for 18 providing us with free airtime. It's crystal clear to 19 us that without their support our program cannot 20 survive. 21 2466 Since the introduction of the 22 multiculturalism policy in 1971, Canada has become the 23 envy of the world as model country to live in. A 24 country where citizens are treated equally, regardless 25 of their race, religion or colour. Furthermore, the StenoTran 588 1 Canadian people and government not only tolerates 2 diversity, but also provides diverse groups the 3 opportunity preserve their culture in contrast with 4 other countries' melting pot policy. Canada's 5 pioneering role in developing multiculturalism has been 6 studied in many countries and some of them have 7 followed our footsteps to implement similar policies. 8 2467 An integral part and the cornerstone 9 of the multiculturalism policy is the retention of the 10 mother tongue or the comfort language of its citizen, 11 especially within the ethnic communities. 12 2468 After the federal and the provincial 13 governments gutted the heritage languages program, the 14 current third language and ethnic broadcasting act was 15 essential in providing a vehicle to the multicultural 16 community to reach its members who are spread all over 17 Canada. 18 2469 Furthermore, in today's world of 19 deadlines, pressures, long hours of work and financial 20 obligations, the ethnic and third language programs are 21 providing relief and quality time for several 22 generations of the multicultural family to gather 23 together to watch and hear programs which they 24 understand, enjoy and cherish. 25 2470 To give you an example, in my family StenoTran 589 1 it is the only time when my mother, who does not speak 2 English, and my niece who is four years old, they sit 3 down together and watch a TV program. 4 2471 As well, these programs are a very 5 effective way to promote Canada and Canadian values and 6 principles to the newcomers and to integrate them into 7 their adopted homeland. The positive promotion of 8 Canada and the Canadian way of life internationally is 9 another benefit that these programs provide. 10 2472 The Armenian TV program is of 11 critical importance to our smaller communities outside 12 Toronto. It is their only link to their language, 13 culture and religion. For the Armenian people the 14 retention of the language, religion and culture is a 15 must. In 1915 a million and a half Armenians were 16 killed in the first genocide of the twentieth century. 17 My people paid the ultimate price to safeguard the 18 language, religion and cultural heritage of our nation. 19 We are privileged and grateful to live in a tolerant 20 country like Canada, where we can preserve our heritage 21 and, simultaneously, contributing to the Canadian 22 mosaic. 23 2473 Here I would take the privilege of 24 mentioning some of the members of our community who 25 have become very famous Canadians, not only in Canada, StenoTran 590 1 but also internationally, like the famous film director 2 Atom Egoyan, actor and director Harant Alianak, (ph) 3 photographers Karsh and Kavouk, (ph) violinist 4 Catherine Manoukian, (ph) conductor Rafi Armenian, (ph) 5 comedienne Andrea Martin, opera singer Isabel 6 Biraktarjan (ph) and so many others in various fields 7 of culture. 8 2474 Also, the Armenian community's 9 history in Canada dates back over 100 years. 10 2475 Therefore, it is fundamentally 11 important to retain and support the third language and 12 ethnic programming policy. Furthermore, it is 13 incumbent on us to provide the opportunity and the 14 resources to further develop and improve such 15 programming. 16 2476 Our recommendations are: 17 2477 First, third language and ethnic 18 programming policy should continue. 19 2478 A third language national network 20 should be created. 21 2479 Third, funds should be provided to 22 produce higher-quality programming. 23 2480 Fourth, the market forces should not 24 dictate our policy on third-language programming. 25 2481 Fifth, free programming in third StenoTran 591 1 language should be available to all ethnic groups 2 regardless of their size and strength. 3 2482 Sixth, an ombudsman should be 4 appointed for the third language and ethnic 5 programming. 6 2483 In conclusion, we see homogenous 7 European states which have fought each other for 8 centuries coming together in a new and optimistic super 9 multicultural Europe. We have seen numerous examples 10 of depredation caused by nationalism, intolerance and 11 the instance of a uniculture. 12 2484 Canada is renowned around the world 13 for its visionary multicultural policies. It is this 14 human and enlightened policy which has enabled Canada 15 to absorb people from some 160 countries, and also help 16 them to live with each other amicably. 17 2485 We cannot afford to renounce policy 18 which has made Canada the best place to live. 19 2486 Thank you. 20 2487 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 21 much, Mr. Babikian. Thank you for the list of Canadian 22 Armenians who have become famous. I knew some of them, 23 but not all of them. 24 2488 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenters are 25 Rebecca Liu and Bao Sum Chen. StenoTran 592 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 2489 MS LIU: Good evening, Madam Chair, 3 Commissioners, Commission staff and members of the 4 public. 5 2490 My name is Rebecca Liu and I came 6 from China and immigrated to Canada a few years ago. I 7 speak not only English, but also my first language, 8 Mandarin. 9 2491 I love watching TV programs and 10 listening to radio programs in my own language, 11 especially the local productions provided by Fairchild 12 Television and Fairchild Radio. I applaud the good 13 work that Fairchild has done so far for the community, 14 and I believe that these shows will actually help me 15 adapt to the Canadian society faster and easier. 16 2492 As you may realize, there is an 17 increasing number of Mandarin-speaking people from 18 Mainland China and Taiwan who have migrated to Canada 19 in the last couple of years. They contribute to the 20 multicultural identity that is so unique to our 21 country. 22 2493 As a resident in Toronto, many of my 23 friends and relatives noticed the limited mandarin 24 programs offered by TV and radio do not sufficiently 25 serve this group of Canadians. I am sure it will be StenoTran 593 1 very good news for the Mandarin community at large 2 should the CRTC recognize our need and seriously look 3 into the situation where a licensed ethnic language 4 service on both TV and radio has not been adequately 5 delivered to that community. 6 2494 I thank the Commission for allowing 7 me the opportunity to provide my comments in this 8 hearing. Thank you. 9 2495 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 10 much, Ms Liu. 11 2496 MS CHEN: Madam Chair, Commissioners, 12 Commission staff and members of the public. My name is 13 Bao Sum Chem and I am from Taiwan and came to Canada 14 with my family seven years ago. 15 2497 According to Statistics Canada's 16 official data, the Mandarin-speaking population in 17 Canada has been increasing significantly and we are 18 craving for our own language TV and radio program. 19 2498 Unlike other Canadians who are 20 offered many choice of television and radio 21 programming, a lot of the Chinese Canadians rely on 22 Fairchild's Mandarin program on both TV and radio as 23 their only source of daily news, entertainment and 24 information. 25 2499 And, more importantly, we rely on StenoTran 594 1 Fairchild's services to help us to adapt to Canadian 2 society. However, the total air time for a Mandarin 3 program is so inadequate, and many of my friends and 4 relatives from the Taiwanese community strongly believe 5 that the limited Mandarin programs now cannot cope with 6 the increasing demand by the Mandarin-speaking 7 population. 8 2500 My friends and relatives in Vancouver 9 mentioned to me that they love watching the Mandarin TV 10 programs on Talentvision, particularly the news and the 11 variety shows. Also, the total air time of Mandarin 12 radio programs are so much longer than what we have in 13 Toronto. 14 2501 I hope that the CRTC could understand 15 the needs of the growing Mandarin community in Toronto. 16 2502 I sincerely hope that the CRTC will 17 really listen to our voices. Thank you for giving me 18 this opportunity to speak out my opinion at this 19 hearing. 20 2503 Thank you. 21 2504 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Chen. 22 2505 MS RHÉAUME: Next we will hear from 23 Mr. Stan Krol of the Polish Credit Union. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 2506 MR. KROL: Thank you. StenoTran 595 1 2507 Madam Chairman, Mr. Commissioner, 2 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Stan Krol and I am 3 the President and CEO of St. Stanislaus - St. 4 Casimir's Polish Parishes Credit Union Limited, the 5 producer of Polish Studio, a one-hour Polish language 6 program aired by CHIN on Citytv every Saturday from 7 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon. 8 2508 St. Stanislaus - St. Casimir's Polish 9 Credit Union is the largest parish credit union in the 10 world, with about 40,000 members and 14 branches 11 located in southern Ontario, from Oshawa to Windsor. 12 Our credit union is represented by Polish-Canadians 13 from all walks of life and age groups. 14 2509 Polish Studio is on the air since 15 1988, produced by our credit union since 1992. 16 According to the Bureau of Broadcast Measurement, 17 Polish Studio is one of the most watched ethnic 18 programs aired by CHIN. It has a potential audience of 19 300,000, of which about 200,000 are of Polish descent 20 and the other 100,000 are Canadians of Ukrainian, 21 Byelorussian, Lithuanian and Jewish descent who speak 22 Polish. 23 2510 The program is transmitted in 24 southern Ontario and it is retransmitted in 25 Newfoundland, Quebec and the Northwest Territories. StenoTran 596 1 The program is produced by Mr. Tadeusz Lis, a graduate 2 of the Film and TV Directing Department of the Film 3 Academy of Lodz in Poland. He is the producer of many 4 well-known television dramas and documentaries 5 broadcast in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Germany. 6 2511 The program is also hosted by 7 distinguished Polish journalists, writers and radio 8 personalities, such as Edward Zyman, Henryk Bartul, 9 Marek Kusiba, Adam Polanski and Piotr Hoffman. 10 2512 As producers of Polish Studio we can 11 see how the program satisfies the many needs of the 12 Polish-Canadian community. First, it is for many 13 people a major source of information about Poland and 14 life in the Polish community in Canada. 15 2513 Every week we report news from Poland 16 and present events that occurred in the Polish-Canadian 17 community. The work of charitable organizations are 18 reported, in addition to work of Polish artists and 19 writers. Guests featured on our program include 20 representatives of every walk of life, including 21 religious, political, cultural and professional. 22 2514 We have featured the most popular 23 athletes and world champions. Hockey greats such as 24 Bobby Orr, and young Daniel Tkaczuk were our guests 25 last year, and Dominik Hasek this year. StenoTran 597 1 2515 From the artistic world we have 2 hosted the most recognized artists from poland and 3 displayed their talents. 4 2516 From the political world, we 5 interviewed Prime Minister Chretien two weeks ago just 6 before his official visit to Poland, and in the past 7 many Ministers, Senators and MPs. Along with numerous 8 Polish politicians, we hosted Lech Walesa, former 9 President of Poland and founder of Solidarity. 10 2517 From the phone calls and letters of 11 support that we receive, it is obvious that the program 12 is watched and well received by young and old. it 13 satisfies a need inherent in immigrants living in 14 Canada. It also gives businesses an opportunity to 15 market their services and contribute to the economy. 16 2518 All important community events, 17 whether religious, cultural or artistic are covered by 18 Polish Studio. In this sense, our program is 19 fulfilling the important function of integrating 20 immigrants into the Canadian cultural mosaic. 21 2519 By presenting Polish culture, history 22 and news from Poland, we are also addressing the needs 23 of Canadian students of Polish descent who want to know 24 their cultural and religious roots. 25 2520 In summary, I wish to confirm that StenoTran 598 1 Polish Studio is satisfying the religious, cultural and 2 political needs of the Polish community across all 3 demographic lines. The program has become a community 4 institution. We consider it as part of the benefit of 5 living in a free and democratic country such as Canada. 6 2521 We urge the Commission to continue 7 their support of ethnic programming such as Polish 8 Studio and all the other programs aired by CHIN. 9 2522 Thank you for your time and 10 attention. 11 2523 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 12 time, Mr. Krol. 13 2524 MS RHÉAUME: We will now hear Mr. 14 Clyde McNeil. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 2525 MR. McNEIL: Good evening. You all, 17 Madam Chairman and members of the panel, have exhibited 18 extraordinary tenacity in sitting through these last 19 three days. 20 2526 THE CHAIRPERSON: So have you. We 21 are all in this together. 22 2527 MR. McNEIL: Yes, and it's almost 23 there. 24 2528 We have made an extensive written 25 submission which you will receive within the next StenoTran 599 1 couple of days. I wish to highlight and talk about 2 just a couple of points that I have been hearing over 3 the last two days and which are mentioned in our 4 submission and I would like to highlight them. 5 2529 First and foremost, we like to talk 6 about the fact of the role of the CRTC. You must 7 recognize by now that the ethnic broadcasting policy 8 does not only need modification; it needs wholesale 9 changes based on what you have been hearing, what I 10 have been hearing and what we have submitted. 11 2530 What we are saying is that wholesale 12 changes are needed to reflect the population that the 13 CRTC is putting out, regulations and policies to 14 govern. 15 2531 About 12 years ago I went down to 16 Ontario Place to see a concern by a black entertainer 17 by the name of Al Jarreau. When he started one of his 18 very popular songs at the time, which was a monster hit 19 in the United States, called "L.O.V.E." the audience at 20 Ontario Place just went wild. He said, "Thank you very 21 much," and I noticed that a lot of people in the 22 audience here listen to late night radio. And do you 23 know what that implication was? That that music was 24 only placed on late night radio. 25 2532 I went -- after the show I got StenoTran 600 1 backstage and I was asking him, "This is Toronto, you 2 know. You didn't have the right to make such a 3 comment." He said, "Yes, I have the right. I am by 4 any standards a major performing artist and I came to 5 Toronto and no mainstream media agreed to interview 6 me." 7 2533 Between 12 years ago and now there 8 has been progress, but ever so slow. We look at the 9 role of the CRTC in levelling the playing field. It's 10 important that when you come up with any new policy, 11 any changes, that it levels the playing field because 12 what is happening is the population, the ethnic 13 population that we have here in Toronto they not only 14 want to get on the playing field; they want to take 15 everything to the next level. People want to exhibit 16 ownership. People want to have control over 17 programming and all those things that go into the whole 18 milieu that has to be reflected in your policy. 19 2534 So I urge you that when you change, 20 you modify, you update, whatever the words you use, the 21 policy, it must reflect the community, the population 22 which you serve. 23 2535 The 1991 census indicated that Canada 24 had a population of 26.9 million. Of that, the visible 25 minority made up 2.5 million. That was 9.4 per cent of StenoTran 601 1 the population. 2 2536 Now, it grew from 1986 from 6.3; 3 1991, 9.4; and in 1996 it's 14.2. The projection is 4 that by the time the next census comes around it will 5 be 17.7 per cent. 6 2537 Now, we have heard a lot about the 7 population, the ethnic population of Toronto and what 8 happens to it in the year 2000. But I want to tell you 9 this, in 1986 the spending power of the ethnic 10 population was $76 billion and it is projected by the 11 year 2001 it will rise to $311 billion. 12 2538 Now, these figures they come from 13 StatsCan with some extrapolation. Now, it means that 14 the ethnic community have an economic base. Never mind 15 what mainstream media is saying, the ethnic community 16 has an economic base and it is with this in mind we ask 17 that when you do that modification, that change, that 18 retooling of the ethnic broadcasting policy it reflects 19 the fact that we are not only here in numbers, but we 20 have economic input into society. 21 2539 It is important that the CRTC 22 understand that at this point the ethnic population has 23 matured. While we are ready for changes, it is 24 important that the changes go in the right direction. 25 Just to give a little anecdote, at this point we cannot StenoTran 602 1 make an omelette without breaking the egg, and in this 2 case the egg is the policy and the regulations that are 3 put out by the CRTC. So, it's important that by the 4 end of the day we are not interested in who is 5 listening. We are interested in who is paying 6 attention so that attention is converted into a proper 7 policy that is reflected in the population and is 8 reflected in our economic contribution to society. 9 2540 The black community, we are in a very 10 tenuous position at this particular point because at 11 the risk of incurring the wrath of some of my 12 colleagues, we have a problem in that English is our 13 main language. I don't have to talk about what that 14 does for us because we are, as we say in Trinidad, we 15 are neither fish nor fowl. We don't have a language 16 that qualifies us on the ethnic section, and then 17 mainstream media say we service you because you speak 18 English. So that in any attempts we have in trying to 19 get ourselves positioned, we are faced with that 20 problem of language and on the other side the problem 21 of ethnicity. 22 2541 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think Joseph 23 Heller called that Catch-22. 24 2542 MR. McNEIL: Yes, Catch-22. 25 2543 So, it's important that when again StenoTran 603 1 you are coming up with your new policy that all these 2 things that we talk about in our submission go into the 3 mix. 4 2544 I thank you very much for listening 5 so attentively over the last three days. I thank you 6 very much for the opportunity to come and address you. 7 I just wish before I close to let you know that I am 8 wearing three hats here this evening. I am the 9 President of the Caribbean Cultural Workshop, which is 10 a non-profit community organization responsible for 11 sensitizing, culturally, spiritually and socially both 12 our community and the larger society. 13 2545 I am here as the producer of 14 programming both for radio and television. What is 15 interesting about some of the programming that we 16 produce is that we get to send it down to the Caribbean 17 because the Caribbean people are very much interested 18 in what we are doing here in North America, whereas in 19 most cases it is going the other way around. 20 2546 And, of course, I am here in the 21 capacity where I have a company that we have been 22 trying to break into mainstream media and for all the 23 reasons I give here are the reasons that we are kept 24 out. It is unfortunate because we have an economic 25 stake in all of this and Canada is our home. We are StenoTran 604 1 not going anywhere. We are here to stay and we want 2 you to help us make the best of it. 3 2547 Thank you very much and we appreciate 4 the time you gave us. 5 2548 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. McNeil. Thank you for the figures that you 7 pointed out to us from StatsCan. I wasn't aware of the 8 magnitude of those figures. 9 2549 I just want to reassure you that we 10 are not just listening, but paying attention. I am 11 also relieved to hear that you feel we have an ongoing 12 role because someone actually suggested yesterday that 13 we were obsolete, so maybe it is somewhere in between. 14 2550 MR. McNEIL: No, not at all. I never 15 see the CRTC as obsolete. 16 2551 If you will allow me just to make one 17 point, most regulatory functions, groups that function 18 in preserving the status quo, but the CRTC over the 19 last 12 years has helped in changing the broadcast face 20 so that we can feel part of it. The analogy I want to 21 give for that is that I was a Sergeant in the army and 22 every time I see a soldier, I see anybody from the army 23 going down the road I identify with that. That is part 24 of my history, that is part of me. I was in the 25 Canadian army. StenoTran 605 1 2552 So that if we could get that same 2 piece of identification to transpose over to the media, 3 we will have less problems with the kids. We will have 4 a society that can work together and live more 5 harmoniously. Thank you. 6 2553 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much. 7 2554 MS RHÉAUME: Mr. Larry Mirkopoulos. 8 Mr. John Ha. 9 2555 Mr. Spyros Bourdorkis and Ms Vicky 10 Karpeta. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 2556 MR. BOURDORKIS: Yes, Madam Chairman, 13 I am here tonight to address my concerns and the 14 concerns of many ethnocultural groups which are not 15 represented by the Hellenic Canadian Federation, as 16 well as for the Cypriotic community at large. 17 2557 Because it is very late, I will be 18 very terse and just making a few points and certainly I 19 will submit written submissions to the Commission 20 within the next two weeks or so. 21 2558 The very first thing that I would 22 like to say is that in 1994 I visited CHIN, 100.7, and 23 requested to view the promise of performance of that 24 station. What I have found was that the program 25 designated to the Cypriotic community was sold to a StenoTran 606 1 film group. 2 2559 I discussed this matter with Mr. 3 Redhead, their programming director at CHIN, as well as 4 with Mr. Leonardo Lombardi and, for the record, Madam 5 Chairman, I must say that Mr. Lombardi was very 6 receptive, very polite and very understanding. He had 7 promised me to reinstate the program within two weeks' 8 time and I agreed with him that two weeks' time was 9 very reasonable to reschedule the other programs. 10 2560 However, two weeks later when I 11 contacted the station, Mr. Lombardi was not able to 12 give me the answer. I had informed at that time the 13 then President of the Canadian Hellenic Federation 14 which has the mandate to oversee the community media 15 and Mr. George Manios at that time had promised to me 16 that he was going to speak to Mr. Lombardi to reinstate 17 the program. However, no progress has been made with 18 respect to that program until today. 19 2561 The second things is at CIRV I had 20 the opportunity to view the promise of performance made 21 to the Commission in 1986. CIRV is comprised of five 22 communities, the Portuguese, the Spanish, Greek, Indian 23 and Chinese. Sometime after 1998 the program which was 24 allocated to the Greek community, according to the 25 promise of performance which I have obtained from the StenoTran 607 1 CRTC, it states that it is 26 hours and 50 minutes 2 weekly. 3 2562 Mr. William Vrumst (ph), who was the 4 producer of the Greek program was also the 5 Vice-President of that station. In 1988 -- I believe 6 that that year Mr. Vrumst (ph) had been removed from 7 that position and was replaced by Mr. Marinos 8 Giorgatos (ph). Since then the program reduced from 9 26.5 -- 26 point 50 minutes to 22 hours, which two 10 hours were allocated to the -- designated on the 11 promise of performance as a community program under the 12 title Voice of Cyprus. That program was produced until 13 1991. 14 2563 In September 1991 the station 15 appointed the first female producer in the Greek 16 community, Mrs. Vicky Karpeta, who was then at that 17 time was charged the amount of $300 for 90 minutes 18 program. It was an agreement with the station that the 19 station would make available to Mrs. Karpeta the 20 Commission's decision authorizing the station to sell 21 the program. It was understood that the rate which the 22 station was charged Mrs. Karpeta was the rate which the 23 Commission has approved to the station and it was 24 understood that if funds were allocated for this 25 program the station would have made it available to StenoTran 608 1 Mrs. Karpeta. 2 2564 However, this had never been 3 materialized and sometimes later the program -- Mrs. 4 Karpeta was dismissed. The program ceased to exist 5 since 1992. 6 2565 The Greek Cypriotic community, Madam 7 Chairman, does not have any other means to convey the 8 message. It is very well known that the Canadian 9 government has supported the cause of the Greek 10 Cypriots in every international community, and it is 11 very well known that there are many Canadians who have 12 served in Cyprus in the green line from 1961 or 1963 I 13 believe. 14 2566 I request from the Commission to 15 intervene and reinstate these two programs as soon as 16 possible. 17 2567 Furthermore, since 1993 the Greek 18 program from 22 hours now is reduced to 15 and 19 gradually was eliminated from the air 10 months ago. 20 2568 So, I request from the Commission 21 again to reinstate these hours to the Greek community 22 because the Greek community really is underserved. 23 There are two cables, and I believe one SCMO which is 24 not very clear today, that this SCMO belongs to the 25 CHCR. The information that I have, again from the StenoTran 609 1 CRTC, it is not clear either. However, this is the 2 situation that there are only two cables and I take it 3 that an SCMO as well. 4 2569 For the Greek community we have to 5 pay the cable, the Rogers or the Shaw, in order to 6 receive the signal from the SCMO by purchasing a device 7 which costs $200. This is the price they sell it at. 8 2570 At CHIN there were 20 hours of FM. 9 This has been reduced to 17.5, of which five is FM and 10 12.5 AM. Unfortunately, the AM does not have the 11 range, the capacity to reach beyond the central of 12 Scarborough City. So that I think must be rectified as 13 well. 14 2571 Now, furthermore, I had the 15 opportunity to view certain documents of the CFMT. At 16 CFMT, Channel 47, in the promise of performance when 17 first this station was licensed, the hours allocated to 18 the Greek community and according to the documents in 19 my possession, as well as to the information provided 20 to me from the licensing department of the CRTC, the 21 CRTC had approved to the Greek community 312 hours at 22 CFMT, which is six hours weekly. 23 2572 I will not refer to the situation 24 prior to 1992 because I did not monitor the station at 25 that time. However, I have got information that from StenoTran 610 1 1986 from the time CFMT was licensed to 1992 these 2 hours were produced by Mr. Maniatokis who is the 3 President of Odyssey Television Network Inc. 4 2573 At that time, Mr. Maniatokis was an 5 employee, not a producer, of CFMT. The employer to Mr. 6 Maniatokis was Mr. Stan Papulkis. He is the producer 7 and according to the application of Mr. Maniatokis, 8 submitted to the Commission when he requested a 9 licence, I have found that Mr. Maniatokis was paying 10 the CFMT $1,000 per hour, and mr. Maniatokis claimed 11 that the CRTC that the cost was excessive and he could 12 not continue the production. 13 2574 However, I contacted the CFMT and at 14 the time when CFMT was producing only 30 minutes of 15 local programming, I was told that Mr. Stan Papulkis 16 was the executive producer. No more information with 17 regard to this program. 18 2575 When I said to them that I have in my 19 possession a promise of performance which I obtained 20 from the examination room from the CRTC, and the hours 21 which the Commission allocated to this program is not 22 30 minutes, but six hours, Mrs. Jeniak -- I believe 23 that is her name -- hang up the phone at this point. 24 2576 A further search into this, I 25 discovered and this document is in my possession today StenoTran 611 1 and I can submit it to the Commission, that Mr. Stan 2 Papulkis is a producer of the Greek program. The 3 executive producer -- I would like to correct that. It 4 is headed, it is listed as the executive producer of 5 the Greek program. The executive producer of the 6 Macedonian Heritage which is the film group, the 7 executive producer of a Chinese program, the executive 8 producer of an Indian program and if we add up all 9 these hours we are equal to six hours, which the 10 Commission has approved for the Greek community. 11 2577 Therefore, I went to the projected 12 financial statement for that station, as well as I did 13 that with CIRV and I found that nowhere posting 14 revenues from air time selling to producers. 15 2578 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Bourdorkis, 16 have you put this information in writing to the 17 Commission? 18 2579 MR. BOURDORKIS: I did not put it in 19 writing, but I will file a submission with the 20 Commission within the next two weeks. 21 2580 THE CHAIRPERSON: I would 22 respectfully suggest that if you have a complaint that 23 you submit that as a complaint to the Commission with 24 the information that you have gathered, so that it can 25 be looked at. And that if you have comments on the StenoTran 612 1 policy which is the purpose of our public consultation 2 here tonight, that you submit those by March 4, but, 3 unfortunately, you have been going for 15 minutes. The 4 situation is really far too complex for us to deal with 5 and as much as I appreciate that you would like to put 6 this on the table, this is not really the venue for 7 doing that. 8 2581 So, if you have a very brief comment, 9 maybe one minute with respect to the ethnic 10 broadcasting policy itself, not to this particular 11 situation, but to the ethnic policy perhaps you could 12 share that with us and then we will wrap up for the 13 day. 14 2582 MR. BOURDORKIS: Yes, madam, it will 15 take me less than a minute. 16 2583 Number one, I request from the 17 Commission to fully enforce the promise of performance 18 of the licensees. 19 2584 Number two, I would like to change 20 the regulation and request from the producers who 21 receive public funding to acknowledge that at the 22 beginning of the program and when the program ends. 23 This is it. 24 2585 THE CHAIRPERSON: That was less than 25 a minute. StenoTran 613 1 2586 MR. BOURDORKIS: Thank you very much. 2 2587 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much. 3 2588 Madam Secretary, do we have any 4 further participants? 5 2589 MS RHÉAUME: Maybe we could go over 6 one final time just in case some of the missing people 7 showed up. 8 2590 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is there anybody in 9 the room who is registered? 10 2591 There are so few people left, but I 11 would like to say that this has been a fascinating and 12 for us an extremely useful process. We learned a lot. 13 We heard a lot. We were paying attention. 14 2592 I understand from talking to some of 15 the other Commissioners that they have had very 16 interesting sessions in other parts of the country. We 17 are looking forward to coming together and talking 18 through the views that have been expressed and looking 19 at how that will fit into the development of this new 20 policy. 21 2593 I want to thank you so much for your 22 contributions and with that we will adjourn this public 23 consultation. Thank you so much. 24 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2230 / 25 L'audience est ajournée à 2230
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