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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES SUBJECT / SUJET: PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/ CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC) HELD AT: TENUE À: Confederation Centre Condederation Centre of the Arts of the Arts Memorial Hall Memorial Hall 145 Richard Street 145, rue Richard Charlottetown, P.E.I. Charlottetown (Î.-P.-É) March 11, 1999 Le 11 mars 1999 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Transcripts In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of Contents. However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the public hearing. Transcription Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières. Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience publique. StenoTran Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes Transcript / Transcription Public Hearing / Audience publique PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/ CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC) BEFORE / DEVANT: Françoise Bertrand Chairperson / Présidente Chairperson of the Commission / Présidente du Conseil Stuart Langford Commissioner / Conseiller ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS: Alastair Stewart Commission Counsel / Avocat du Conseil Secretary / Secrétaire Brien Rodger Director, Halifax Regional Office / Directeur, Bureau régional de Halifax HELD AT: TENUE À: Confederation Centre Condederation Centre of the Arts of the Arts Memorial Hall Memorial Hall 145 Richard Street 145, rue Richard Charlottetown, P.E.I. Charlottetown (Î.-P.-É) March 11, 1999 Le 11 mars 1999 StenoTran ii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Ms Barbara Bloom 5 Mr. Loran Fevens 10 Mr. Terry Pratt 21 Mr. Bill Hoof 28 Mrs. Sally Blake Hoof 31 Ms Theresa Doyle 39 Mr. James MacNutt, Q.C. 48 Ms Laura Mair 56 Mr. Vince MacIntyre 64 Ms Hélène Smith 74 Ms Madrien Ferris 90 Ms Catherine Hennessey 92 Mr. Kip Smith 94 Mr. William Minnis 105 Mr. Eric Silva and Ms Betty Andric 111 Mr. Robert Boyer 119 M. Benoît Henri 129 Mr. Terry MacCabe 134 Mr. Tony Reddin 140 Mr. Angus Orford 143 Mr. Nils Ling 148 Ms Betty Howatt 157 StenoTran iii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Ms Andrea Simpson 164 Ms Laurie Brinklow 170 Mr. David Doughton 179 Mr. Ian Dennison 183 Hon. Patrick Binns 195 Mr. Leo Broderick 208 Mr. Leo Cheverie 213 Dr. Phillip Smith 221 Ms Jennifer Shields 226 Ms Mary Boyd 230 Ms Sandi MacKinnon 237 Ms Ann Sherman 244 Ms Colleen Pidgeon 253 Mr. Peter Baker 258 Mr. Richard Carson 263 Mr. Bernard Callaghan 268 Mr. Reg Pendergast 275 Dr. Ian MacQuarrie 283 Mr. Ron Irving 286 Mr. Ken Williams 291 Mr. Robert Donnelly 298 Mr. Frank Driscoll 306 StenoTran iv TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Ms Jane Ledwell 316 Ms Vlan Emery 321 M. Antoine Richard 324 Ms Edith Perry 334 Mme Marie-Claire Paulin-Karé 340 M. Alex Robert 343 Ms Mary MacNeil 347 Reply by / Réplique par: Ms Susan Mitton 188/353 M. Jules Chiasson 354 StenoTran 1 1 Charlottetown, P.E.I. / Charlottetown (I.-P.-É) 2 --- Upon commencing on Thursday, March 11, 1999 3 at 1300 / L'audience reprend le jeudi 4 11 mars 1999, à 1300 5 1 LA PRÉSIDENTE DU CONSEIL: Alors, bon 6 après-midi. Bonjour. 7 2 Good day, ladies and gentlemen and 8 welcome to this public consultation on the CBC. 9 3 My name is Françoise Bertrand and I 10 am the CRTC's Chairperson and please allow me to 11 introduce my fellow Commissioner, Stuart Langford. 12 4 We are here to gather your views and 13 comments on CBC Radio and Television. In your opinion, 14 how should the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil 15 its role in the coming years. The CBC is a national 16 public service broadcasting in English as well as in 17 French. It plays an important role in the Canadian 18 broadcasting system. 19 5 Today many elements are constantly 20 being added to the broadcasting system as new 21 technologies multiply, converge, open up new horizons 22 and increasingly offer new services. In this context, 23 we want to know what are your needs and expectations as 24 viewers and listeners of the CBC. 25 6 Given that, it is very important that StenoTran 2 1 the Commission hears what you have to say. We must not 2 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public 3 organization that serves Canadian citizens, in this 4 capacity we are responsible to you. This is why my 5 fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to come 6 and meet with you to discuss these issues and why we 7 are holding this series of regional consultations from 8 one end of the country to the other in relevant 9 Canadian cities from March 9th to 18th. 10 7 These consultations are designed to 11 give you a chance on the eve of a new millennium to 12 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 13 it offers and the direction it should take at the 14 national, regional and local levels. Through these 15 consultations, we hope to enter into an open dialogue 16 with you and to hear your concerns. Your comments will 17 form part of the public record which will be added to 18 the record of the public hearing on the CBC that will 19 begin in Hull next May 25th. 20 8 At this upcoming hearing, the 21 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the 22 renewal of its licences, including radio, television 23 and its specialty services, Newsworld and Réseau de 24 l'information. You can also take part in that public 25 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. StenoTran 3 1 9 If you wish to do so, please remember 2 to refer to the specific licence renewals being 3 examined when you file your comments. 4 10 Now, I would like to come back to 5 today's consultations. Please allow me to introduce 6 the CRTC staff who will be assisting us today. 7 11 Alastair Stewart, our legal 8 counsel -- I was looking for him on the right side 9 because that's where he was yesterday. I apologize, 10 Alastair. And Brien Rodger, the Director of our 11 Halifax Regional office. 12 12 Please feel free to call on them with 13 any questions you might have about the process today or 14 any other matter. 15 13 So that you all will have the 16 opportunity to speak, we ask that you please limit your 17 presentation to ten minutes. As these consultations 18 are a forum designed especially for you and we want to 19 listen to as many participants as possible we will not 20 ask any questions unless we need clarification. 21 14 At the end of this session 22 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a 23 chance to offer their views as they are naturally very 24 interested by the issues we are discussing here today. 25 15 Before we start, I would ask our StenoTran 4 1 legal counsel, Mr. Stewart, to go over some of the 2 housekeeping matters regarding the conduct of this 3 consultation. 4 16 Bon après-midi. 5 17 MR. STEWART: Merci, Madame la 6 Présidente. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 7 18 Presenters are invited to speak into 8 the microphone when making their presentations and 9 before speaking if you would press on the white button 10 to activate the system so that your comments will be 11 transcribed for the public record. 12 19 And at the end of your presentation, 13 if you'd be good enough to again press on the white 14 button to turn the system off to avoid any echo. 15 20 We have a simultaneous translation 16 available and the headsets are available from the 17 people where the technical gear is located at the front 18 of the room, so please feel free to obtain that for 19 simultaneous translation. 20 21 I believe that's all that needs to be 21 said on housekeeping details, Madame la Présidente, and 22 with your permission, I will invite the first speaker. 23 1313 24 22 I now invite Ms Barbara Bloom to make 25 her presentation. StenoTran 5 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 23 MS BLOOM: Good afternoon. My name 3 is Barbara Bloom, B-l-o-o-m, and I have given a copy of 4 my statement to Brian. 5 24 Can you hear me? 6 25 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 7 Very well, thank you. 8 26 MS BLOOM: Okay. 9 27 I lived the first 38 years of my life 10 in the United States; I have now been living in Canada, 11 first in Saskatoon for 26 years and now near 12 Charlottetown since last July. 13 28 Perhaps you can appreciate my joy at 14 discovering the CBC shortly after my arrival in 1972. 15 It is a joy that continues to this date with increasing 16 reservation since all of the cutbacks began. 17 29 I am much more of a radio person than 18 a television person, though I will watch important and 19 well executed television programming. Even when I 20 lived where I had more TV programming choices -- I 21 don't believe in cable -- I mostly watch the CBC. Now, 22 that is all I can receive, but no one should say, 23 "Well, I'm a captive audience" because I can turn it 24 off. But I still find the CBC TV adequate for my TV 25 needs. StenoTran 6 1 30 I enjoy many of the TV evening 2 programs as my time permits, but faithfully watch the 3 news, that is if the news is on at 10:00, it often gets 4 bumped for some silly reason. 5 31 The CBC provides the kinds of 6 programs that I enjoy. Almost always while I'm 7 watching TV I am, however, also taping programs like 8 "Ideas" and "The Arts Today" on my radio. I will be 9 taping during the day and on weekends I listen to Radio 10 Two almost all of the time, selecting a few programs 11 from Radio One. And if two of my programs are on at 12 the same time, I tape one for later use. 13 32 You will hardly find a more serious 14 CBC fan than I. 15 33 When do I listen to these tapes? I 16 listen to them on airplanes, in the car, in the middle 17 of the night when I can't sleep, which sometimes 18 happens, while I'm working out, except I haven't 19 figured out how to get the tape into the swimming pool 20 with me. Whenever. And I don't seem to have any 21 trouble finding the time to listen to these tapes. 22 34 One thing about radio, it is possible 23 to carry on most other solo activities while also 24 listening. I do have long periods of time by myself, 25 but I am far from a recluse. My oldest grandchild, StenoTran 7 1 incidentally, is beginning to listen to CBC Radio, 2 having discovered it through my listening and he likes 3 "Perks and Quirks", which we call "Q & Q" and also 4 classical music. 5 35 Despite all my enthusiasm, I had a 6 lot of worries about the CBC. In the 27 years of my 7 listening, I have seen the dreadful effects of the 8 cutbacks. 9 36 I suspect that, like the cutbacks at 10 universities and in hospitals, there has been little 11 shrinking of the administrative personnel and budgets, 12 but front-line workers have had to do more and more 13 with less and less, and less and less of remuneration 14 and visible appreciation. We can see it on TV or hear 15 it on the radio this cutting back. It's very obvious. 16 And seeing it and hearing it irritates us. I have not 17 yet forgiven CBC for having eliminated "Sunday 18 Morning", for example. 19 37 I can tolerate radio reruns to a 20 certain extent, but TV reruns are revolting. I find 21 something else to do. It's easy for me to find 22 something else to do, I have no problem. If nothing 23 else, I'm studying German, that should keep me busy for 24 the rest of my life. 25 38 In addition to the irritation, some StenoTran 8 1 new ideas for programming make me, and many other 2 people, angry. There are at least two innovations that 3 make me very angry, the eleven o'clock time warp 4 instant replay of the news on TV and the starvation and 5 strangulation of radio -- programming for both TV and 6 radio. 7 39 With reference to the first one. 8 Having an instant replay of the news is boring. But 9 more importantly, it bumps the regional news to 11:30 10 p.m. and many of us cannot stay up to midnight to see 11 the regional news. And the people who can't stay up to 12 see the regional news are people like me, natural 13 early-morning risers. I have awakened at 6:00 in the 14 morning every day of my life, I think. To sleep in for 15 me is to sleep till 7:30. I can't wait and go to bed 16 at midnight, because I will still wake up at 6:00, you 17 can't do that, and there are lots of people like me. 18 40 But of course, there are also people 19 who must get up and go to work. All of my children -- 20 all of my adult children are out by 6:00 or 6:30 in the 21 morning to get to work. They have got to go to bed at 22 night. And anyone who has ever had a young child knows 23 you don't sleep in, so you have got to go to bed at 24 night. 25 41 So if we're going to handle -- and StenoTran 9 1 then those three categories take care of a lot of 2 people. If we're going to meet those needs for seeing 3 regional news, we can't put it on at 11:30 at night and 4 expect people to stay up till midnight. 5 42 With regard to the second irritation, 6 there's practically nothing left of regional 7 programming. This is a dreadful situation because we 8 are a vibrant, alive community. All of Saskatoon, 9 Saskatchewan, all of -- they, as well as here -- we're 10 now beginning to become acquainted -- we need a way to 11 communicate with each other and to inform and display 12 to one another our special stamp on life. 13 43 There's more to Canada than Toronto. 14 It frightens me that if things continue as they are 15 going in a few more years all that we will have to show 16 for this beautiful vast, diverse and vibrant country, 17 whether by radio, TV or newsprint is Toronto's notions 18 of life as it is or as it should be. 19 44 And then lastly, I do not see the 20 purported bias of the CBC. I think evidence of 21 balanced programming is the observation that not only 22 this government and some of its followers but also the 23 government before that and some of their followers and 24 before that and before that and before that -- for as 25 long as I have been in Canada anyway, they all have had StenoTran 10 1 the same complaint. What is big government afraid of? 2 What would worry me more would be if the CBC became 3 simply a propaganda machine for political winners. 4 45 Pertinent to this, incidentally, is 5 the question, "Where is Terry Milewsky anyway?" 6 46 I hope you and the CBC will seriously 7 consider my comments and accept them with the sincerity 8 in which they are submitted. Barbara Bloom. 9 47 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 10 Thank you very much, Mrs. Bloom. 11 48 It's true, I'm an early riser, too, 12 so I can understand that we don't like very much to 13 finish late. 14 49 Thank you very much for your 15 participation, it's very helpful. 16 50 Mr. Stewart? 17 1319 18 51 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Loran 19 Fevens to speak, and I apologize, sir, if I have 20 mispronounced your name. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 52 MR. FEVENS: No, you're right on as a 23 matter of fact. Thank you. Good afternoon. 24 53 First I would say thank you to the 25 CRTC for offering us this opportunity to do so and StenoTran 11 1 recommend that in this day of modern technology, you 2 would get a considerable wider cross-section of opinion 3 if you use your Web site for opinions to be received by 4 a much larger audience than what's here or than what 5 will be in the 14 sites across the country. That's 6 just a suggestion. 7 54 You have a good Web site, I don't 8 quite understand why you don't use it for that reason, 9 really. 10 55 I don't usually work with a script, 11 but it's important for me this afternoon to say exactly 12 what I have in mind. I have worked with a microphone 13 for 35 years and normally they don't make me nervous, 14 but for some reason or other this whole situation is a 15 bit intimidating this afternoon, so bear with me. 16 56 There has never been a time in my 17 life, that now spans more than half a century, when the 18 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has not had a 19 profound impact on what I understand Canada to be and 20 who I am as a Canadian. 21 57 My generation, born in the closing 22 years of the Second World War and in the fairy tale 23 years of the late forties, was the first to experience 24 that impact in my hometown of Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. 25 As we got to know the rest of the country through the StenoTran 12 1 local CBC affiliate radio station, CJLS, and then 2 eventually sat fascinated in our darkened living rooms 3 to watch a snowy, barely visible image from CBHT in 4 Halifax. 5 58 For the quarter of a century before 6 then, the strong, clear signals of radio stations in 7 Boston and New York and Philadelphia and Portland, 8 Maine left the residents of this small Nova Scotia 9 fishing community feeling more like Americans than 10 Canadians. And I'm quite certain that this condition 11 existed in this country's communities, large and small, 12 all along the national border that we share with the 13 United States. 14 59 There is no doubt in my mind, none, 15 that the creation and the growth of the CBC changed how 16 we saw ourselves as Canadians, indeed, assured us that 17 we were uniquely Canadians and not just a cultural and 18 emotional extension of New England. 19 60 It's interesting to see this problem, 20 if you will, resurface half a century later through the 21 cable television systems which bring a Massachusetts 22 television signal from most major American networks 23 into the majority of homes here on Prince Edward 24 Island. 25 61 So if we ever needed a strong StenoTran 13 1 Canadian public broadcaster presence on the Island, and 2 indeed in the rest of the country, I think it is 3 certainly right now. 4 62 I would like to address the last two 5 questions of the four suggested by the Commission for 6 this session. I would prefer not to reply to the first 7 two, because I actually feel that any responses would 8 be really entirely a matter of opinion built on 9 individual expectations. And I think it's more 10 important to reflect on what the CBC should be as 11 Canada's national public broadcaster, rather than what 12 it is or what it has been. 13 63 What it was in the 1950s, with 14 hindsight, seems to have been right for the 1950s. 15 What it should be as we move into the third millennium 16 needs to be viewed in light of the new realities of the 17 dramatically changing communication tools we have at 18 our disposal, like the Internet, as I mentioned. The 19 dramatically different programming philosophies 20 practised by the private broadcast sector, and the 21 dramatically fickle viewing and listening habits of 22 Canadians, especially those under the age of 25. 23 64 Sorry, I don't mean to sound as 24 though I'm being unkind, but that's statistically true. 25 65 Should the programming provided by StenoTran 14 1 CBC Radio and Television be different from that 2 provided by other broadcasters? If so, what should 3 these differences be? That's question 3 essentially. 4 66 Over the last 25 years, private radio 5 stations in Canada, generally speaking, have become not 6 much more than jukeboxes. And in most cases, each 7 playing its own narrow, age-targeted music. 8 67 Newscasts have either been reduced to 9 sound bites at best, or completely eliminated during 10 much of the day. Any role as a mirror of the community 11 it serves has been swallowed up in the competition to 12 play the most music in any 15-minute block. 13 68 Private network television isn't 14 doing much better. We're fed a steady diet of 15 so-called sitcoms, which degrade women and men alike, 16 and leave our kids emulating characters who, in real 17 life we wouldn't allow near us. With a few notable 18 exceptions, private television in Canada seems to have 19 settled for the lowest common denominator in its 20 program scheduling. 21 69 So, should CBC Radio and Television 22 be different? I think the obvious answer is 23 absolutely. 24 70 What should those differences be? 25 Well, a balanced program that provides a fair, StenoTran 15 1 interesting, informative and entertaining mosaic -- and 2 I hate that word, but it's the only one I could think 3 about -- entertaining mosaic of Canada's music, news, 4 public affairs, concerns and opinions. 5 71 The public broadcaster also needs to 6 strive to be that mirror that I spoke about, reflecting 7 not only our national personality, but the personality 8 of the local communities its individual stations 9 serve -- and more of that then we get. 10 72 I sometimes wonder if the baby was 11 thrown out with the bath water when the corporation 12 moved to eliminate its affiliation with scores of small 13 private stations across the country in favour of more 14 centralized owned and operated outlets. As I recall my 15 years as an announcer with several of these stations in 16 Nova Scotia during the sixties, the arrangement was a 17 good one, with the private broadcaster providing the 18 essential local service to the community and the 19 expertise and the resources of the CBC providing a 20 level of news coverage and diversity of program that 21 the small private broadcaster could not hope to match. 22 73 I'm troubled by what seems to be a 23 high level opinion within the CBC management recently 24 that the corporation must do all it can to attract a 25 youth audience. StenoTran 16 1 74 In a recent Canadian press feature 2 written by John Mackay, he quoted CBC spokesperson, 3 Ruth Ellen Soles(ph), as saying that the CBC has, for 4 many years, been looking at ways to attract a younger 5 audience. And she went on to say, and I quote her 6 here: 7 "If we don't continue to look at 8 the current marketplace and find 9 a place for us in the future, 10 we're sunk." 11 75 Now, that sounds very much to me like 12 an effort to win a ratings race. No public 13 broadcaster, I don't think, should think in those 14 terms. Those are private broadcaster priorities. 15 76 The priority of the public 16 broadcaster in this country should be to provide 17 Canadians and all Canadians, if that's possible, with 18 the very best in alternative programming. It's not a 19 question of competition with the private sector; it's a 20 question of complementing what the private sector is 21 already providing. 22 77 Otherwise, the most significant 23 factor controlling program content will be that the 24 lowest common denominator I spoke about will result in 25 the ratings game that goes along with it. StenoTran 17 1 78 The fact of the matter is, in most 2 cases, as young people mature and move out into the 3 world they're affected by many influences. Time and 4 again I have watched, over the years, the music tastes 5 of teenagers that I know change significantly as they 6 reach their late twenties and thirties. And as they 7 settle into the workforce and begin to build families, 8 a wide range of concerns become important to them, 9 politics, health care, the environment. 10 79 And although I certainly believe that 11 programming for the young audience must be an essential 12 part of CBC planning, especially in television, I 13 firmly believe the majority of those young peoples who 14 will become the leaders of tomorrow's world of 15 information, leaders of their communities and leaders 16 of this country, will seek out the kind of programming 17 that the CBC has always excelled in. 18 80 You don't have to go to them. If you 19 examine the history and the legacy of the CBC you will 20 understand why they will come to you if you continue to 21 insist on the quality of workmanship and the content 22 that has long been recognized by broadcasters and the 23 public all over the world is second to none. 24 81 For the last 14 years I have hosted a 25 weekly program of baroque and renaissance music on a StenoTran 18 1 number of national public radio stations in the United 2 States and over and over again, program people that I 3 deal with in those cities speak about the Canadian 4 Broadcasting Corporation with a sense of awe and a 5 sense of reverence. And it is the programming 6 differences of the CBC that has established this 7 international reputation of excellence. 8 82 And now your last question -- and I 9 will close with this briefly. 10 83 Is there a special role that the CBC 11 should play in the presentation of Canadian 12 programming? 13 84 My response to your question is 14 simply another simple question: Isn't that special 15 role the primary raison d'être of a country's 16 publicly-funded broadcaster? 17 85 When I turn on a CBC radio station or 18 a CBC television station it is Canada that I want to 19 see and what I want to hear in the programming. 20 86 In closing, I would commend and thank 21 the brilliant men and women of the CBC who have, under 22 great, great difficulty, particularly in recent years, 23 provided this country and the world with programming of 24 the highest quality. I would urge the leaders of the 25 CBC not to throw a 1999 baby out with the bath water as StenoTran 19 1 a result of trying to produce higher audience numbers. 2 87 Thank you for allowing me to speak to 3 you this afternoon. 4 88 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 5 Thank you very much. Would you accept to answer a few 6 questions for my colleague, Mr. Langford? 7 89 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We have so 8 many presenters I shouldn't be doing this, but I was 9 interested in the fact that you're contributing 10 programming to PBS and you have a basis in 11 broadcasting. 12 90 And I don't know whether you have 13 thought of this, if you haven't fine, no answer is an 14 answer. 15 91 But, on the understanding whereas the 16 CRTC can regulate the broadcasting system, it doesn't 17 control funding. I mean, that's one thing we can't do, 18 that's up to Mr. Paul Martin. 19 92 So acting on an assumption that there 20 isn't more funding and that times are tight and money 21 is tight, are there things that you would suggest that 22 the CBC should focus on? Are there things that it 23 shouldn't be doing? 24 93 Should it be using its limited 25 resources in different ways? Have you given that any StenoTran 20 1 thought at all? 2 94 MR. FEVENS: I don't have a great 3 deal of difficulty with what's being done by the CBC. 4 What I have a great deal of difficulty with is what 5 seems to be talked about wanting to be done. 6 95 Changing the focus from the 7 excellence in both documentary, news, music and so on 8 to something which -- I guess I'm really concerned with 9 what seems to be a desire to reach a younger audience. 10 And the essence of my comments here is you don't have 11 to go after them, they're going to come to you 12 eventually and don't worry about the future. 13 96 I guess, you know, you're assuming 14 that we have to stick with the amount of money that we 15 have to work with in the CBC. 16 97 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I have no 17 power over it -- 18 98 MR. FEVENS: No, I know that. 19 99 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: -- so I'm 20 just assuming it for the -- 21 100 MR. FEVENS: No, I understand that. 22 But maybe we should also, as citizens, be lobbying for 23 more money for the CBC, too, or at least better 24 management of that money if nothing else. 25 101 And having been a government employee StenoTran 21 1 for the last 15 years I can understand that management 2 of the money is as important as the amount of money you 3 have. So it's a question of there needs to be some 4 things done obviously. 5 102 But no, I like what's happening with 6 the CBC, except, as I say, in this area of planning for 7 the future sounds like they really want to change 8 programming style to reach a younger audience. I'm not 9 sure that's -- I think it's throwing the baby out with 10 the bath water, as I say. 11 103 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thanks very 12 much. 13 1333 14 104 MR. STEWART: All right. I would 15 invite Mr. Terry Pratt to make his presentation. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 105 MR. PRATT: Thank you very much. And 18 thank you for letting us do this. I want to speak only 19 about radio and chiefly about Radio One. 20 106 What I think is unique about CBC 21 Radio in a place like Prince Edward Island is two 22 things. The cultural level that it pitches its stuff 23 at and the combination of local, regional and national 24 coverage. 25 107 Now, of course, we do have local StenoTran 22 1 radio here. We have three stations, they're all under 2 one management. Look them up in the phone book you get 3 all the same numbers in each one. They do what they 4 do, which from my point of view is chiefly loud music 5 with loud advertising. 6 108 They, of course, have a popular 7 following and that's fine. But there's a very 8 significant segment of this or any population that they 9 do not consider their audience and that will never be 10 their audience, and I'm speaking of that level of 11 culture which deals with music of the kind that our 12 symphony plays. We do have a local symphony, we do 13 have chamber music, we do have choral music, 14 considerably these things are on the CBC or they are 15 covered on the CBC. 16 109 I'm speaking of what goes on in this 17 building, all the multifarious things that go on in 18 this building. I'm speaking of theatre in general, 19 amateur and professional. We have more theatre on this 20 Island, winter and summer, per capita than any place in 21 Canada. Of course a lot of it is amateur, but it's 22 people getting out there and doing things, it's covered 23 on the CBC. It's only covered on the other station if 24 you pay for the advertising. 25 110 I'm talking about books. Local books StenoTran 23 1 that are produced here and are talked about here. I'm 2 talking about the fact that this is a university town 3 and so university events, all their kinds are covered 4 or mentioned on the CBC. Rare coverage, inadequate 5 coverage on the other stations. 6 111 I'm talking about heritage. Local 7 stories of history and so on. 8 112 And I should also mention that we are 9 a capital city, of course, so there's a lot of politics 10 goes on here and that's another kind of cultural level 11 that the other stations will not cover. I think 12 essentially they are apolitical. It's really not of 13 great interest to them. 14 113 And of course we get analysis of the 15 news here. We get people actually talking about it, we 16 get interviews, we get panel discussions and so on, 17 more than just sound bites. 18 114 And by the way, CBC, sound bites are 19 one of the worst things ever invented, I wish you'd 20 stop doing those silly things. But never mind. 21 115 The strike, the recent strike, has 22 been quite instructive for me and I think a lot of 23 other people, because we have to listen to these other 24 stations to get the weather because the weather has 25 been so uncertain. So we have to go through all this StenoTran 24 1 noise, all this cacophony to get the information. 2 116 I actually brought along a little 3 radio with me here and I debated with myself whether I 4 had the nerve to do this or not, but -- I have missed 5 the station. 6 --- Audio clip / Clip audio 7 117 MR. PRATT: That's what I mean. See 8 how nice it is when it goes off? When it stops it's 9 really nice. 10 118 Now, I know if you live in Toronto or 11 other big cities that you can get the kind of cultural 12 programming that I'm talking about on other stations, 13 but you can't get it here. 14 119 And incidentally, the CBC's desperate 15 solution for the moment to cover this strike is also -- 16 they're doing what they can, but it is somewhat 17 alienating to hear somebody in Fredericton or Saint 18 John trying desperately to cover us here, but really 19 only still doing what they do in that place. 20 120 I well remember when the CBC Radio 21 came to P.E.I. and how terrific it was to get the 22 local, along with the regional and national and not 23 have to deduce what the weather was going to be from 24 what you're hearing in Halifax. Because if you don't 25 have that, what you have to do is keep switching of StenoTran 25 1 course. If you just keep your national CBC, then 2 that's -- sure, we could listen to that, but then we'd 3 have to keep switching back to get the local stuff. 4 121 So all of that, I'm just talking 5 local and I'm putting that together with my other point 6 which is that of course we get very good national 7 coverage and some regional. The radio noon regional 8 show is -- really pulls the Maritimes together. It's 9 an excellent show and how they keep coming up with such 10 excellent talking questions day after day astonishes me 11 and it was really worrisome when it seemed like it 12 could be cut as a show. And what I would do without 13 Marjorie on Friday afternoons to tell me about 14 gardening. I don't know what I would do. 15 122 And then such things, when you are 16 moving to the national level you get the six o'clock 17 news is a half an hour of news. And there's nothing to 18 touch that on commercial radio. And then, of course, 19 into "As It Happens" and you get background stories of 20 the news and so on. 21 123 When we wake up in the morning, my 22 wife and I we program our waking time so we get the 23 seven o'clock news, it's fairly substantial. Then we 24 get news headlines of the local stories and we choose 25 whether we're going to listen to the news at 7:30 to StenoTran 26 1 get the local stuff, and we also get notices of what 2 the interviews are for the next hour so that we can 3 choose whether to do that and then we get the weather. 4 It's a perfect package, instead of, of course, what's 5 on this. 6 124 So it's the combo of national and 7 local that I'm talking about and then to add to that, 8 quietly and without fanfare, all of a sudden we had 9 Radio Two, as well as Radio One. 10 125 So there was classical music all day 11 long, which is heaven all day long for some of us. And 12 that doesn't need to be local and it's surely a very 13 inexpensive thing to put on and there's nothing like it 14 here, other than that. 15 126 I have lived in the United States, I 16 have lived in New Zealand. I have seen both ends of 17 this kind of spectrum that we're talking about and let 18 me tell you the direction to go is New Zealand and not 19 America. 20 127 So that's my message. Please renew 21 this licence. Let the rest of us to do what we can to 22 get some more money for the CBC. 23 128 And as my last point, I have been 24 listening, of course, to the CBC news and hearing news 25 of hearings elsewhere, and hearing news of emotion StenoTran 27 1 elsewhere. Don't kid yourself that there's no emotion 2 in this room just because it's a slightly cold room and 3 we're all somewhat intimidated. 4 129 I personally am a very busy person. 5 I'm Chair of the unit where I work. I'm currently 6 directing "Pirates of Penzance" -- to get a little plug 7 in there. I just hurt my back about an hour ago 8 shovelling wet snow. 9 130 I'm here because I feel strongly 10 about the CBC. I'm sure if you were living here you'd 11 be here too. I cannot believe that Stuart Langford and 12 Françoise Bertrand would not be supporting the CBC if 13 you lived in Charlottetown. 14 131 Thank you. 15 132 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 16 Thank you very much, Mr. Pratt. 17 133 Mr. Langford? 18 134 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We will 19 polish up the handles so carefully -- 20 135 MR. PRATT: That's the "Pinafore". 21 136 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yes, I know, 22 but it's the only thing I can remember. Give me a 23 break! At least it's Gilbert & Sullivan. 24 --- Laughter / Rires 25 137 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: StenoTran 28 1 Thank you. 2 138 Mr. Stewart? 3 1340 4 139 MR. STEWART: On the program, 5 Mr. Hoof and Mrs. Hoof are listed as presenting a joint 6 presentation, but I understand they wish to make a 7 separate presentation because they have different 8 matters to bring out. 9 140 So if that is the case I invite 10 Mr. Hoof to make his presentation. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 141 MR. HOOF: Thank you. 13 142 I think everything I wanted to say 14 has pretty well been said. But I will go ahead and 15 maybe I can add a few things to it. 16 143 Question: How does the CBC fulfil 17 it's role and should it be different in the new 18 millennium? 19 144 I will direct my comments first to 20 radio programming. First of all, let's not worry about 21 the new millennium. It's just a number and we can't 22 even agree on when it's going to start. 23 145 And let's not fix something that 24 ain't broke. I think CBC Radio is doing a good job and 25 I do with -- but I do wish you could settle the strike StenoTran 29 1 immediately. 2 146 I wouldn't -- as has been said by 3 others, I wouldn't worry too much about attracting 4 young people to radio. They enjoy the pop music on 5 private stations and will eventually look for something 6 more meaningful. 7 147 I started listening to the CBC Radio 8 in 1938 with a radio that had four batteries, all of 9 different sizes. Over the years I think you have kept 10 your mandate and established a niche for yourselves and 11 the market is growing, as is the population bulge ages. 12 148 There seems to me to be an 13 underground effort to get rid of the CBC or any 14 government service. It seems to be based on a 15 political philosophy which links freedom with private 16 enterprise. 17 149 Question: How does the CBC serve the 18 public on regional and national levels? 19 150 I would say very well. When I go to 20 Regina or Moose Jaw I hear about their local issues, 21 which is as it should be. At the same time, you cover 22 issues extremely well and you're the only one doing it 23 in depth. 24 151 Question: Should program be 25 different from other broadcasters? StenoTran 30 1 152 The answer is a resounding yes. And 2 other people have covered it well. 3 153 No one has mentioned commercials. 4 But having radio without commercials is fundamental to 5 your success and if necessary, I, for one, would be 6 willing to pay a special donation for radio each year 7 with my income tax form. 8 154 As Hilda Nikme(ph) expressed it, 9 "There is so little for the mind on the average private 10 station". 11 155 A special role in programming. Yes, 12 you do an excellent and necessary job and I like the 13 way you involve the new immigrant nationalities. 14 156 I could mention a few programs I like 15 and they have all been pretty well mentioned. "This 16 Morning", "Maritime Noon", "Ideas", "Writers and 17 Company", "Cross-Country Check Up", "Overnight Radio", 18 et cetera. 19 157 Now, I will go to TV, which, as other 20 people have said, sometimes is not as attractive. One 21 thing, you're overdoing the commercials on TV. And my 22 suggestion would be, it's something which I understand 23 they do in Germany, make a program of your commercials. 24 Sometimes they put half an hour of commercials and 25 either that or put them all at the beginning of the StenoTran 31 1 program or the end. 2 158 I object to the programs which are 3 supposedly aimed at children with too much animation 4 and of course, too much Disney. That's so little for 5 the mind again. 6 159 In closing I will just say, on TV, I 7 like "The Fifth Estate", "Marketplace", nature things, 8 land and sea, "Life and Times", "Cross-Country", 9 "Country Canada" and "Witness". 10 160 So I thank you again for letting me 11 make a presentation. 12 161 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 13 Thank you, Mr. Hoof. 14 1350 15 162 MR. STEWART: I now invite ask 16 Mrs. Sally Blake Hoof to make her presentation. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 163 MRS. BLAKE HOOF: Here we are. I 19 thank you, too, for the opportunity to be here, it's 20 great. 21 164 Of course, we have left with the 22 whole board of the CBC, as well as you but we're all 23 addressing both parties, I think and I certainly am one 24 who is praying devoutly for the continuation of the 25 licence of the local CBC station, as well as a general StenoTran 32 1 impetus towards further funds for the CBC right across 2 the country. 3 165 I bought a small plastic red radio 4 with my first Canadian pay cheque in September 1957, 5 from which moment CBC could count on me as a regular 6 listener -- on Saturdays mostly because I did work five 7 days a week. 8 166 And of course at the weekend there 9 was this zany man called Max Ferguson who, at that 10 period, created a regular series of short programs 11 loosely based on his unique view of current events. 12 167 Granny was offering herself as 13 Canada's first spacewoman and the spacecraft was being 14 launched from the front lawn of Cyrus Eaton 15 Sinclair's(ph) home in Pugwash, Nova Scotia. Marvin 16 Melabill(ph) was the commentator. 17 168 Some of you remember this? Yes. 18 169 The Russians had just gone into space 19 and of course, soon thereafter came the American space 20 flight which caused a jubilant 7th grader in Digby 21 Regional High School to roar triumphantly to his 22 teacher, "We did it!". 23 170 The teacher, being of good loyalist 24 descent questioned the youngster's choice of "we", 25 pointing out that he was a Canadian, after all, whose StenoTran 33 1 American neighbours had made the space flight. 2 171 But I would like to say more about 3 nationalism in a moment or two. 4 172 I rejoice in CBC Radio because it 5 functions in standard Canadian speech, generally free 6 of sports jock-type delivery which is such a painful 7 part of so much commercial radio, with some exceptions. 8 173 The quality of the people is the 9 other thing I like. I like the variety of material and 10 I like the variety of format. I get stimulation, I 11 hear debate, I hear questioning, I hear humour, I hear 12 world news and I can generally rely, I think, on the 13 accuracy of local reporting. And if I want to put it 14 up against our local newspapers, when I want to know 15 where the truth lies, well, I suppose I rely more on 16 CBC. 17 174 I want, actually, to name a few names 18 and be more specific. The recent strike has proved to 19 this listener for one, that we have a crew of 20 broadcasters in Charlottetown who are quite 21 exceptional. 22 175 Wayne Collins and Karen Mair on the 23 "Morning Show", fine voices, clear heads, courteous 24 hosts, humour. They're inventive and they're thorough. 25 And among the contributing reporters, Pat Martell and StenoTran 34 1 Anne Thurlow are exceptional. 2 176 And I mention these because it is 3 quite possible that you members of the panel may not be 4 equally fortunate in your own home CBC stations, so 5 please, don't steal them. Okay? 6 177 Then in the "Noon Show", once more 7 the quality of reporting by such people as Mac Campbell 8 is tops and the hosting of the Maritime phone-in show 9 by Kostas Salibrasos(ph) is a model of clarity, 10 courteously, ingenuity, fairness. 11 178 And if CBC wants to have someone to 12 train young broadcasters, to teach them how to speak 13 well, this man would be a top candidate, but don't 14 steal him either, please. We want him to stay right 15 where he is. This is "grey power" speaking. 16 179 I have several favourite shows, I 17 won't enumerate them, but I can write a letter to CBC 18 and say which ones I like best. And most people have 19 mentioned my favourites. And like Professor Pratt, I 20 think "Radio at Noon" is quite exceptional. 21 180 When I think of the national programs 22 there is so many there that are superlative. I want to 23 see them all continue and I want to see them evolve, so 24 I'm going to mention "This Morning", which was "Morning 25 Side". And obviously, if I remember 1957, I remember StenoTran 35 1 Gerussi, Don Harron, Judy LaMarsh before Gzowski. 2 181 But there are a lot of young people 3 nowadays that think that Peter Gzowski started the 4 whole thing and that, you know, Enright and Benoit are 5 johnny-come-latelies and that it was always M. Gzowski. 6 It wasn't indeed. 7 182 I like the new format a lot. It's 8 one of the few programs on radio or TV where co-hosting 9 works,I think. Enright and Benoit avoid coziness and 10 private giggles. They still speak outwards to the 11 interviewees and to the listeners in every part of the 12 country. 13 183 Every day there's some section where 14 big themes of morality and justice are debated, along 15 with politics, local and national, comedy, music and 16 gossip. 17 184 If you take Dick Gordon's features on 18 Monday now it's very interesting that he is doing what 19 Stuart McLean did very effectively with Gzowski, but 20 he's doing it in his own way and he's dealing with 21 natural phenomenon and nature, society. 22 185 And I think it's -- there's a case of 23 evolution. For us to say what should they be doing in 24 the new millennium is daft in a way, because there are 25 so many inventive people in production at CBC -- I know StenoTran 36 1 a lot of them and have known them over 40 years because 2 of my personal interest in drama and music, besides the 3 visual arts. There's so many people bubbling with 4 ideas you never really have to worry, CBC will 5 percolate along and it will evolve. 6 186 So that's all I want to say about 7 radio, except to come back for a moment. I'm not a 8 great television person, partly because I am a visual 9 artist. I feel that there's a lot of opportunity lost 10 on television. 11 187 I'm very tired of seeing talking 12 heads, and they all have these wonderful books -- these 13 rolls of legal books behind them that nobody's ever 14 read. The potted plants change sometimes, but I don't 15 need people sitting static with makeup on their faces 16 talking very slowly about something that radio can do 17 faster and more effectively. 18 188 And the emphasis on news on 19 television is regrettable, but I am told by people who 20 travel to Ontario a lot -- I travel there rarely -- 21 that -- I see my daughter watching "Oprah" and I say, 22 "My God! That's a different generation". 23 189 But I still think that the good 24 people are there, things will evolve, things will 25 change naturally. StenoTran 37 1 190 On TV I like Adrienne Clarkson. Why? 2 Because I'm a snob. I hate commercials and because I 3 have a whole hour and I say, "The CBC is still giving 4 me this marvellous series". Oh, I'm like a kid with 5 candies. 6 191 Hang on to it! Hang on to it! 7 Please, hang on to it! Just that one hour, no 8 commercials. Why? Whose paying for those? I would 9 love to knows who pays for that. 10 192 Anyway, I say God bless them and 11 thank them. 12 193 Now, back to nationalists. I just 13 want to say that as an immigrant, of course, I'm 14 naturally a devout nationalist. How many of you swore 15 to be faithful to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the 2nd 16 and if you're a Scot like me, you said, "Queen 17 Elizabeth the 2nd, not historically accurate, but 18 anyway". 19 194 There is a political tendency to 20 centralize and that goes for all large businesses like 21 broadcasting. I remember the construction of the Radio 22 Canada building in Montreal and of course, we all know 23 about the huge "E" in Toronto for English services. 24 195 But what happens is, it can lead to 25 smugness and stagnation when you have centralization. StenoTran 38 1 If you have centralized management, you tend to be 2 introverted and you tend, perhaps to think that ideas 3 from smaller broadcast centres are simply cute or 4 folksy or even irrelevant. Not so. 5 196 What happens in Charlottetown affects 6 the citizens of this province directly. It helps us to 7 be informed voters, active citizens and it also informs 8 us about our industries, our arts to a small extent, 9 our education, our history and so forth, with a minimum 10 of editorializing. 11 197 So democracy requires constant 12 vigilance and I regard the region, so-called, the 13 provinces, the territories as the democratic parts that 14 constitute the whole of CBC. You maybe need the big 15 tower in Toronto, you need some of your top management 16 in Toronto, fine, top management in Montreal. But 17 you're going to get just as much energy coming from the 18 local stations and that is what I want for the future. 19 198 And I know it will change naturally 20 and that good brains and inventive and amusing and 21 intelligent, exciting people will keep percolating up 22 if top management allows them to percolate up. 23 199 Thank you very much. 24 200 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 25 Thank you very much. StenoTran 39 1 1355 2 201 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Theresa 3 Doyle to make her presentation. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 202 MS DOYLE: Thank you very much and I 6 appreciate having the opportunity to speak here today. 7 I speak as a musician and also as Chair of the Prince 8 Edward Island Council of the Arts. 9 203 And I agree with most everything that 10 I have heard here today, so I will try to direct my 11 comments to areas that haven't been touched. 12 204 I'm going to speak about what I do 13 because I want to put forth an argument that will allow 14 others to do the same in the future. 15 205 I'm a Celtic musician. I run my own 16 record company, I have six records on my own label. I 17 tour internationally. I was just nominated for a Juno 18 and East Coast Music Award. 19 206 And I tell you this because I would 20 not have a career without Canadian Content rules, 21 Cancon, without the Canada Council and most 22 importantly, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. 23 207 Let me repeat, I would not have a 24 career because I would not be interested in having a 25 career in the kind of music that you heard on Terry's StenoTran 40 1 little handset there a few minutes ago. 2 208 It's a privilege to be able to have a 3 career in Celtic music. I'm a six-generation Prince 4 Edward Islander and my entire career has been built on 5 collecting the folk music and folk stories of this 6 province and bringing those stories to the rest of the 7 country, to the U.S., to Europe and Japan. And I tell 8 you there are very important stories in tiny places 9 like Prince Edward Island that need to be heard around 10 the world. 11 209 Those stories are just as interesting 12 as anything you're going on Queen Street, in fact Queen 13 Street doesn't need -- I have a lot of musician friends 14 in Toronto, they don't need CBC in the way we need CBC. 15 In fact, they don't even listen to it, because they 16 have access to so much else that's going on and so many 17 venues and opportunities to present their work. We 18 don't; we have CBC. 19 210 Without CBC we don't even have -- it 20 would be very difficult to imagine performing on the 21 East Coast without CBC. I'm doing a children's 22 festival this summer. Local TV, last year they were 23 down and did a spot on that. CBC Radio, practically 24 every couple of days will play something off my record 25 and tell people about the show that's going on. StenoTran 41 1 211 Now, two or three records back, 2 national radio actually did play a fairly important 3 role in my career. And I think my situation is very 4 indicative of other, you know, people in the music 5 industry across the country. I'm not talking about 6 Bryan and Céline, I'm talking about James Keelaghan, 7 Connie Coldor(ph), people who really speak -- and the 8 Stompin' Toms, people who really speak -- that hold 9 this country together on the cultural scene. 10 212 Where was I? I can't remember. 11 213 But I do know that from the time my 12 first record, 'Prince Edward Island Do' came out a 13 dozen years ago to today, the greatest friend I have is 14 local CBC. I go in there, they interview me, they play 15 my music, they tie me to my community. They help me 16 export my music to other countries. They help me get 17 my music out across the country. They are my lifeblood 18 and they have worked so hard to help me every step of 19 the way. 20 214 People on the local scene like Sheryl 21 MacKay and Barbara Nymark, all -- Karen Mair, so many 22 of these people have helped me along the way. 23 215 On the regional scene, people like 24 Glen Mizener(ph) have built the Atlantic folk music 25 scene. People like Glen Mizener make or break people's StenoTran 42 1 lives in the music business. 2 216 Dedicated people in regional Canada 3 who are finding bucks to still continue making albums 4 for people like Eagle Feather and Rose Vaughan(ph) 5 and -- we would be -- it would take all my ten minutes 6 to name the people that Glen Mizener has put on the map 7 in Atlantic Canada and people whose careers are 8 international now. 9 217 And I guess a question that I would 10 ask is what kind of community are we building here in 11 Canada? And I would ask this about health care and a 12 lot of other issues. 13 218 But it seems to me that we have a 14 very strong cultural voice in CBC. I lived seven years 15 in Montreal and I was singing jazz then. My 16 communication was much more with Belgium and with 17 France; I felt cut off from Canada. The only thing 18 that kept me plugged into Canada was Peter Gzowski. 19 219 I have lived in the Yukon. I enjoy 20 turning on CBC and hearing what my musician friends are 21 doing in the Yukon or, you know, who won the Yukon 22 Quest this year. And I would be one of those people 23 that are going to fight for a very long time to keep 24 the important things about this country alive. 25 220 And maybe you're not getting the kind StenoTran 43 1 of numbers that CHUM is getting, but that doesn't 2 matter because it will always be a smaller part of the 3 population that will hold this together politically, 4 culturally and we need that strong national voice. 5 221 When I travel abroad and turn on the 6 TV -- I mean, especially when you go to the U.S., car 7 accidents, that's not news as far as I'm concerned. I 8 have been brought up on CBC and the standard is so 9 incredibly high -- you know, we can criticize it. It's 10 very easy to criticize it until you travel and see what 11 else is being offered around the world. 12 222 When it comes to TV, again, I think 13 we're growing up culturally and we are ready to hear 14 our own stories. And I love "This Hour Has 22 15 Minutes", the only hard news I really get. 16 223 I love Canadian programming and I 17 think we're doing an excellent job north of -- shows 18 like "North of 60", fabulous, fabulous productions. If 19 we have to go out and buy -- if Canada cannot afford to 20 fill the entire space with our own productions, then 21 let's buy from the Brits and let's buy from Australia. 22 Nobody needs one more second of American TV. Let's 23 keep absolutely fabulous. 24 224 I wouldn't want to be Hanna Gartner 25 coming back after the strike, after all those episodes, StenoTran 44 1 absolutely fabulous. 2 225 What else? I must be out of time by 3 now. 4 226 But yes, Toronto cannot speak for us 5 and the rest of the country. 6 227 And the other thing that's happening 7 in Toronto -- I remember what I wanted to say when back 8 when -- that it used to be when I came out with an 9 album, I could get several hits on national radio. 10 It's supposed to be music and more. We're getting too 11 much more and not enough music. Let's cut some of the 12 talk and play good Canadian music. 13 228 Also, let's open up CBC Two to other 14 kinds of music that you don't hear on commercial radio. 15 Yes, I love classical music, but I also love jazz and I 16 do like folk music and world beat. 17 229 So let's open up Radio Two for a few 18 hours of the day to those other kinds of music that a 19 tremendous number of people enjoy, you know. There are 20 lots of supporters of classical music, but hey, some 21 good jazz. We hear practically no jazz on P.E.I., 22 so -- 23 230 I think that's all I have to say, 24 except, you know, we're going to keep -- democracy does 25 require constant vigilance and we won't take cuts to StenoTran 45 1 local CBC sitting down. 2 231 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank you 3 very much. 4 232 I have a question -- a couple of 5 questions, actually. I will try to brief again. 6 233 You're, I think, the second speaker 7 whose kind of made a general reference, I'm not trying 8 to nail you down here, I'm just looking for a little 9 more. 10 234 MS DOYLE: Okay. 11 235 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We came here 12 to hear from you. If I can come away with a little 13 more I'm a happy person. 14 236 Sort of a reference to numbers, the 15 numbers aren't as important, you know, let's get the 16 quality. But is there a cut-off? I mean is there a 17 point, I mean if nobody's listening, obviously that's a 18 cut-off. But -- 19 237 MS DOYLE: Well, I don't where you 20 come from, but here on Prince Edward Island lots of 21 people are listening and the CBC supper hour TV show, 22 this figure's a couple of years old, but 70 per cent of 23 the province watches "Compass". If you can find a 24 rating other than, you know, the death of Princess 25 Diana to compete with that, I will be surprised. StenoTran 46 1 238 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I think 2 Monica might have done it, but Monica was more than we 3 ever want to experience twice. 4 239 MS DOYLE: She's a good example of 5 why we don't need one more minute of American 6 broadcasts. 7 240 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Amen to that. 8 241 The second question I have is because 9 you have been in the music business for a while, you 10 have been in it through the cuts, I suppose. You have 11 seen the good times and the bad times. 12 242 MS DOYLE: That's right. 13 243 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Is it getting 14 worse or with a less budget are they still doing the 15 good work? 16 244 MS DOYLE: It's absolutely getting 17 worse. And I'm very fortunate because I started my 18 career -- my radio career in '87 and there were a lot 19 of opportunities open to me then that -- doors that are 20 closed now. But because I got in at a time where there 21 was still more programming I'm somewhat established and 22 will be able to carry on. 23 245 For new people coming up the ranks, 24 you know -- like take the switch from Peter Gzowski's 25 show to Averil Benoit, Peter was a great -- or Peter's StenoTran 47 1 producer was a great friend to Canadian independent 2 music. A person like Laura Smith -- Laura Smith's 3 career was made on Peter Gzowski's show, her career was 4 launched. 5 246 Careers do not get launched on Averil 6 Benoit's show because there's so much talk that 7 there's, you know, maybe there's an opportunity for two 8 or three pieces of music to be heard in the course of a 9 day and musicians don't get interviewed hardly at all. 10 Whereas in the good old days when my first and second 11 albums came out I could get a nice long interview on 12 national radio. And that's really important. 13 247 Plus the local programming. When I 14 first got in the business you could actually record 15 music at CBC Charlottetown and do some programming 16 right here locally and then it moved to Halifax. 17 Halifax does a fabulous job but you know, the 18 cut-backs. 19 248 The cut-backs are going to mean the 20 most to the people that you may well want to attract, 21 which is younger audiences. How are they going to get 22 heard if they can't get in the door? 23 249 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank you. 24 250 MS DOYLE: You're welcome. 25 1408 StenoTran 48 1 251 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. James 2 MacNutt, Q.C., to make his presentation. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 252 MR. MacNUTT: Thank you. 5 253 First of all, welcome. Thank you 6 very much for coming to Charlottetown. I think it's 7 very appropriate that this topic is being considered in 8 this particular room. This room is Memorial Hall 9 dedicated to commemorate the founding of our country. 10 254 And one of the primary mandates of 11 CBC is to enhance our understanding, our knowledge of 12 our role as citizens of this country, of indeed our 13 awareness of what is happening in this country. 14 255 I think it's important that we 15 remember the essential, the very important nature and 16 role of CBC because with the cut-backs, with the 17 understandable difficulty that the corporation is 18 having and adjusting as it downsizes, I can't help but 19 observe that there is a difficulty in maintaining a 20 focus on that very special, that essential role that no 21 other form of media is able to perform. 22 256 Well, let me start by saying I am an 23 ardent supporter of CBC, an unqualified supporter of 24 CBC, particularly Radio One and Radio Two. 25 257 Radio Two is an extraordinary gift to StenoTran 49 1 the people of this country. It's extraordinary in 2 terms, not only the quality of music, but also the 3 opportunity to experience music that is not available 4 in virtually all of this country. I say "virtually", 5 yes it is in Montreal, yes it is in Toronto and 6 Vancouver. But this is a very large country and there 7 is much that is not available in parts of this country 8 that lie outside Toronto, particularly. 9 258 Well, what is there about CBC to 10 support it? Well, as a national broadcaster it has a 11 unique perspective on the national body politic. It's 12 investigative reporting is reliable, professional and 13 comprehensive. Nationally. 14 259 But that same competence, that same 15 professionalism and reliability extends into the 16 coverage that is provided by your local stations for 17 local issues and matters. I think of the "Compass" 18 program to which reference has already been made, there 19 isn't a politician in this province who doesn't watch 20 it with some fear and trepidation, it has to be said. 21 But they watch it. 22 260 It's essential watching for everyone 23 in the province who is remotely interested in what's 24 happening on a day-to-day basis in this province. And 25 only CBC is able to provide that kind of service. StenoTran 50 1 261 I appear here this afternoon 2 primarily because of a few hats that I happen to wear 3 temporarily. I'm Chair of the Provincial Easter Seals 4 Society and of the March of Dimes Society and I'm also 5 Chair of the Board of Governors of the Museum and 6 Heritage Foundation. 7 262 I mention these only because it is 8 essential to the effective success of each of those 9 organizations that we have a community-spirited 10 organization like CBC who is able to provide lines of 11 communication to our community that are otherwise not 12 available. 13 263 I have listened with great interest 14 to what has been said before I started speaking. I 15 think the one unique message I have for you is that the 16 cultural organizations, the charitable organizations of 17 this province rely -- and I can't emphasize and 18 underline enough "rely" -- on CBC to communicate our 19 message. And we are seeing the results of CBC not 20 being available at this time. 21 264 We have our Easter Seals Telethon 22 scheduled for the 12th of April. Will it be held? 23 It's a major, major impact on a large number of 24 organizations in this province. Only CBC from a 25 television point of view is able to provide the lines StenoTran 51 1 of communication that many cultural and community 2 organizations can have to the people of this province. 3 It cannot be over-emphasized. 4 265 Now, is that relevant in Toronto? I 5 can tell you that my confreres with Easter Seals and 6 March of Dimes in Ontario, for example and indeed with 7 the various heritage related organizations in Ontario, 8 do not rely on the CBC to the same extent in the 9 province of Ontario, certainly in the Toronto area. 10 266 I think there is perhaps a slight 11 problem with envisaging the role of CBC in a monolithic 12 sense. In other words, the standard that applies to 13 Toronto applies to the country. 14 267 Please hear me. Toronto is not 15 Canada. And I say that out of no disrespect to 16 Toronto. I do say it out of a very great concern that 17 as you downsize, the standards, the rules, the 18 interests that prevail in the City of Toronto are going 19 to be extended across this country. And that would be 20 a serious mistake, not only to CBC, but it would be a 21 very great disservice to the people of this province as 22 well as other provinces. And I would suggest to you 23 that it would be a very great disservice to the very 24 people that we honour in this room. 25 268 Well, in conclusion, you have my StenoTran 52 1 unqualified support for CBC. 2 269 And in further emphasizing that, I 3 want to say that -- and this is to support some 4 observations made about the attitude of the people at 5 the local CBC station, they're extraordinary. They do 6 take an interest in what is happening in this 7 community. They do make an effort to determine what is 8 current, what should be supported and I think they're 9 making very sound judgment calls in determining what 10 should be supported and ensuring that there is adequate 11 coverage and analysis for these. I think that's very 12 important to say. 13 270 Again, a very significant measure of 14 the role of CBC is the absence of CBC at this time. 15 And we have an absence of CBC. Yes, we have regional 16 programming that is completely irrelevant to what's 17 happening here. 18 271 Another measure of justification to 19 this kind of recognizing that there perhaps has to be a 20 tiered approach to a CBC structure, you have it now for 21 various very sound political and linguistic reasons. 22 But there is an entirely separate structure in the 23 province of Quebec for very good reasons. 24 272 However, just as part of the 25 justification for the separate system in Quebec, apart StenoTran 53 1 from the linguistic reasons is because of the cultural 2 distinctiveness of Quebec. It will not surprise you to 3 know that there is just as much distinctiveness outside 4 Toronto, outside Quebec, as there is within. 5 273 One thinks of the province of 6 Newfoundland, for example, which is an extraordinarily 7 distinct culture. And while the subtleties may be here 8 in Prince Edward Island, let me assure you that there 9 is an incredible distinctiveness to the culture, to the 10 life, to the milieu that we are supporting here in 11 Prince Edward Island. 12 274 So there is a model, it seems to me, 13 for not treating the CBC as a monolithic organization 14 with one set, clear policy which applies throughout 15 without distinction as to urban/rural, without 16 distinction as to region, north, south, east, west. 17 275 I thank you for your time and I do 18 hope you will continue to support CBC, but recognizing 19 its extraordinarily distinctive role with the cultural 20 and community organizations that it so effectively 21 supports. 22 276 Thank you. 23 277 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: I 24 have a question. 25 278 It's not clear to me, and many of the StenoTran 54 1 intervenors this afternoon do talk about being 2 unqualified to the CBC and it's quite true -- 3 279 MR. MACNUTT: Yes. 4 280 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 5 -- all the interventions. But most of you talk a lot 6 about radio, very little about TV. 7 281 Can you describe that distinctiveness 8 you were talking about and I was kind of taking it that 9 you were not sure what would happen with Easter Seals, 10 you know -- 11 282 MR. MACNUTT: Yes, the Telethon. 12 283 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 13 -- because of the strike and everything. But in 14 general, do you feel that distinctiveness you're 15 talking about and making that distinction between the 16 regional coverage and the local coverage as being 17 important. Do you see it as much in television as you 18 see it in radio? 19 284 MR. MACNUTT: Very much. Very much. 20 285 And it has to be said that it's not 21 just Easter Seals, there are many other community 22 initiatives which are covered, either in whole or in 23 part, certainly supported by CBC. 24 286 Let me just say in answer to your 25 question, for example last year, the PM Museum and StenoTran 55 1 Heritage Foundation gave a special award, a 2 commemorative award to CBC in recognition of its unique 3 role in supporting heritage and heritage related issues 4 in this province. It was unique in that sense. 5 287 Coming back to the television 6 coverage, it extends straight across any informational 7 programming that CBC does. Now, it could be asked 8 should there be more informational programming at the 9 local station? It would be my personal preference to 10 see far more informational programming both nationally 11 and provincially and less head-on competition with the 12 American stations and other commercial stations. 13 288 You know, CBC has a unique, 14 absolutely unique role to fill and I realize that 15 you're inching more and more into commercial television 16 just out of economic necessity, that's to get the 17 dollars running through the system. However, the fact 18 is that the pressing need is both for radio and 19 television with a focus at the local level as much as 20 possible, on cultivating, development and enhancement 21 of what is happening in this province. 22 289 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 23 Thank you very much. 24 290 MR. MACNUTT: I hope that's helpful. 25 291 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: StenoTran 56 1 Yes, that's helpful. Thank you. 2 1425 3 292 MR. STEWART: Now, I would invite 4 Ms Laura Mair to make a presentation. 5 293 Is Ms Mair -- 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 294 MS MAIR: Yes. Thank you, Madam 8 Chair and CRTC Commissioners. 9 295 I don't usually hold on to pins with 10 mottos. I must have had a premonition that I would be 11 wearing this again. And I hope "CBC - Ours to Keep" is 12 a good omen of things to come. 13 296 I appreciate the opportunity to make 14 this presentation in the sincere hope that the goal of 15 these consultations is to truly response to the 16 concerns of many Canadians who care about the future of 17 the CBC and that they are not merely window dressing 18 with budget, program and staff cuts already determined. 19 297 I also hope that my comments and 20 those of others here today and at other locations 21 across Canada will reflect the important role of Canada 22 as a golden thread -- of CBC as a golden thread which 23 links this vast country of ours. 24 298 My husband and I lived and worked in 25 several other provinces across Canada. And on frequent StenoTran 57 1 trips from one coast to the other, CBC Radio was a 2 travelling encyclopedia for us and our children, 3 providing a magnificent cornucopia of information about 4 our geography, our history, our politics and our arts. 5 299 National program hosts and reporters 6 were our travelling companions and although we would 7 often lose contact when we entered south of the border, 8 it was like welcoming old friends when we were back 9 within CBC Radio range and could hear those familiar 10 voices again. We have come to expect, and in large 11 part, do receive well researched information presented 12 in a very professional manner. 13 300 The recent strike has left a definite 14 void which we hope will be soon filled. 15 301 In a world where the number of 16 television and radio stations continues to grow at a 17 phenomenal rate and where the Internet offers a 18 constantly growing and enticing array of information, 19 the CBC has an increasingly important role to play as 20 our national broadcaster. 21 302 Without CBC, the proliferation of 22 American news programs, entertainment and ads could 23 easily swallow up what we rather casually refer to as 24 our "Canadian identity". Like a Canadian Jonah in an 25 American whale, CBC must be our champion in the battle StenoTran 58 1 to help us preserve pride in our past, our 2 accomplishments and our dreams for the future. 3 303 I realize that there are many 4 Canadians who neither listen to nor watch CBC. And 5 while one must respect their choices, all too often it 6 seems as if the programming they choose appeals to the 7 lowest common denominator. Cheap sitcoms which often 8 gloss over the real pain and anger of American society, 9 extreme violence, gratuitous sex and histrionic news 10 reports. 11 304 The challenge for CBC will be to 12 produce programs which are not clones of those on other 13 networks and to develop a whole new family of 14 supporters who feel a sense of ownership. 15 305 Many Canadians of my age grew up at a 16 time where there may have been one local radio station 17 and no television. So when CBC came along, we were 18 easy captives and many of us have remained faithful 19 supporters. But that is not the case for many adults 20 in the 20- to 50-year age group who have been choosing 21 from a huge entertainment and information menu and who 22 may not have developed an allegiance to any particular 23 network. 24 306 I understand that CBC is considering 25 setting up a youth network. And it may be the way to StenoTran 59 1 develop this new family who will become CBC's adult 2 audience in the next millennium. And I realize that 3 I'm disagreeing with some people who have spoken here 4 today, but I think the reality is that you do have to 5 develop a whole new group. 6 307 Our youth of today, however, are not 7 the unsophisticated kids of my youth. For many of 8 them, television has been their most faithful companion 9 from the time they were babies. They have already seen 10 and heard a multitude of stories about sorrow, 11 violence, political corruption, sexual exploitation and 12 occasionally, about joy and hope. 13 308 The remote control and dial are just 14 extensions of their fingers. They will be a very 15 difficult audience to capture and even harder to hold. 16 309 If such a network is set up, I hope 17 that CBC will regularly consult with youth 18 representatives from across Canada so that the thrust 19 of the programming truly reflects their concerns and 20 interests, rather than what a group of CBC or CRTC 21 bureaucrats may consider appropriate. However, what is 22 developed must reflect our Canadian identity or it will 23 soon be absorbed in the American melting pot. 24 310 I would also like to see CBC produce 25 more programs with Canadian writers, singers, actors StenoTran 60 1 and playwrights. Works that may be picked up by other 2 networks, even American. But whose success is not so 3 dependent on this that the Canadian content must be 4 hidden. 5 311 I would also hope that CBC will at 6 least retain, if not increase, the percentage of 7 Canadian music which must be played on all CBC 8 stations. 9 312 Advertising has gradually crept into 10 CBC television programming and it is hard to present 11 arguments against it, since it does generate so much 12 revenue. And if this is the price we must pay to keep 13 CBC Radio commercial free, then so be it. But please, 14 please reduce the weeks and weeks of sports playoffs 15 which often result in CBC turn-offs. 16 313 On the international scene it is sad 17 news that some of CBC's foreign bureaus will be closed. 18 I admire the concise reports given by our CBC 19 correspondents, often under very difficult situations. 20 And with Canada's increased involvement as a 21 peacekeeper in so many conflicts throughout the globe, 22 their presence will be missed. 23 314 We may now have to accept reports 24 from correspondents representing countries and 25 governments whose social and political agendas may StenoTran 61 1 differ greatly from ours. 2 315 I want to focus now on local 3 programming, specifically that on P.E.I. Local 4 programming, both radio and television provide us with 5 windows through which we can see and hear our fellow 6 Islanders. We share their stories, their joys, their 7 concerns, their arts and culture. 8 316 Although the programs are produced by 9 CBC staff they belong to us. They are our party-line 10 of the past and our Internet of today. 11 317 Many Island musicians, such as 12 Theresa Doyle who spoke earlier, authors and artists 13 have benefitted greatly by having their talents 14 recognized by CBC, which has provided a vehicle through 15 which they can be promoted. Their success has enriched 16 both our Island culture and our economy. 17 318 "Island Morning", "Maritime Noon", 18 "Mainstreet" and "Compass" cover just seven hours out 19 of a broadcast day during which we can expect to see 20 and hear Island residents communicate with each other 21 to hear incisive and probing interviews which help keep 22 our government accountable, to be educated in a broad 23 array of public issues and to share our Island point of 24 view with other Canadians across this great land of 25 ours. StenoTran 62 1 319 The size of Prince Edward Island is 2 both a plus and a minus. Because of our small 3 geographic area, CBC is able to give us a sense of 4 being readily connected with people throughout the 5 province. However our small population base may be 6 seen as a negative factor when decisions are made to 7 cut back on services. 8 320 People from more heavily populated 9 areas flock here to enjoy our unique Island way of 10 life, but when it comes to competing for dollars and 11 services, it is an ongoing battle to protect that 12 uniqueness. 13 321 Some years ago a hosiery manufacturer 14 came up with the idea of making a perfect pair of 15 nylons. One size fits all. He was going to make a 16 fortune, and I apologize if it wasn't a "he". 17 322 What he forgot is that we are not all 18 the same size. Although the one size fits all nylon is 19 still on the market and at a very cheap price, it is 20 surrounded by a myriad of other sizes from which to 21 choose. And I venture that there are quite a number of 22 us here today that wouldn't fit into this. 23 323 I do not want to see P.E.I. squeezed 24 into a one size fits all plan for CBC in the Maritimes. 25 An example of what could happen under that scenario has StenoTran 63 1 been vividly demonstrated during this strike. When CBC 2 Radio reports an evening news on television, Atlantic 3 television, we're so minimal you might wonder if Prince 4 Edward Island had dropped to the bottom of the Atlantic 5 Ocean. 6 324 I firmly believe that the best way to 7 grow and retain a national audience is to nurture the 8 grassroots with strong local programming. 9 325 I realize that you must make some 10 difficult decisions, but I ask you to go gently with 11 any changes to our locally produced radio and 12 television programs. What we have now cannot be 13 duplicated by programming from Halifax or Moncton and 14 its loss would further erode our sense of identity as 15 an Island province. 16 326 I strongly urge the Government of 17 Canada to restore secure funding to the Canadian 18 Broadcasting Corporation so it can continue to deliver 19 a distinct Canadian broadcasting service to each 20 province and territory and across the nation. 21 327 During a recent visit to P.E.I., 22 Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Stéphane Dion was 23 quoted as saying that "the newly signed social union 24 includes a commitment for governments to promote 25 greater fairness, equality and respect for a diversity StenoTran 64 1 throughout Canada and to keep Canadians better 2 informed". 3 328 And so, to paraphrase PBS, if CBC 4 doesn't do it, who will? 5 329 Thank you. 6 330 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 7 Thank you very much. 8 1433 9 331 MR. STEWART: And now I would like to 10 invite Mr. Vince MacIntyre to make his presentation. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 332 MR. MacINTYRE: Madam Chairperson, 13 guests here in P.E.I. and fellow presenters and 14 viewers, I guess -- listeners, perhaps. 15 333 I, like James Macnutt, would like to 16 welcome you here. This is a plus that we don't have to 17 travel afar to have our views heard. And it's quite 18 evident from what's transpired here today that there 19 are views here, very substantial views and heartfelt 20 views. 21 334 I would like to apologize for not 22 having a written document, some of -- as some might 23 have noted in production during this session, 24 however -- 25 335 I represent the Prince Edward Island StenoTran 65 1 Right to Life Association. We are a quarter of a 2 century old as of the 20th of February and have a very 3 credible history here in Prince Edward Island and we 4 are very keen observers of the media in a general sense 5 and particularly with respect to the CBC, both 6 television and radio, because I believe most of us have 7 somewhat of a higher expectation of our national 8 corporation, more so than one might have of a 9 commercial operation or a more localized operation. 10 336 I also belong to the Knights of 11 Columbus, I belong to a faith community and I consider 12 myself, after 31 years-plus of public service, the last 13 26-plus in Federal service, as more than just a casual 14 observer of what is going on. 15 337 And I have had the opportunity of 16 travelling the nation from coast to coast and being 17 involved with all manner of people from coast to coast, 18 national associations, national organizations and of 19 course, my association with a number of people through 20 my employment. 21 338 The CBC has aired and continues to 22 air on radio and on television some great material and 23 I commend the CBC for it. Not to go into chapter and 24 verse, there's been various mentions made of instances 25 of programs and so forth that I would give full credit StenoTran 66 1 too, as well. 2 339 But -- and there's always a but -- it 3 does have a difficult time escaping from what leaks out 4 as a bias or undercurrent or an agenda, call it what 5 you will, that seems to pervade the CBC quite 6 particularly. It pervades all manner of media, as 7 well, but once again, I think our expectations, they 8 might even be a little too high with respect to our 9 national corporation which all of us contribute to with 10 our tax dollars. 11 340 Mention's been made of commercials. 12 I see commercials as a pause as they say, "to be zapped 13 with a mute button", ignored or the point at which you 14 dash to do whatever it is you need to do other than 15 watch the ongoing program. 16 341 There are selling channels -- and I 17 use "selling channels" in quotes. And maybe these are 18 the places to which the selling should be allocated. 19 And those that may wonder about, "Well, what product 20 might I use in this or that instance?", they can go 21 there and seek it out. 22 342 In this day and age, I think, it's 23 somewhat disrespectful of people to be subjected to 24 what is quite clearly pretty manipulative and expertly 25 crafted pauses in programmings that we otherwise are StenoTran 67 1 watching. 2 343 I have lost all support for sport 3 broadcasting, not all sport broadcasting, but 4 particularly the sport broadcasting that has been 5 subject to the player strikes, hockey and baseball in 6 particular, and how that exemplifies the worst in greed 7 and the quest for greater and greater acquisition of 8 wealth. 9 344 I look to Channel 10 here, our local 10 cable channel, or at least the one that's where it 11 appears on my digits that show up as you go from 12 channel to channel, because it is showing increasingly 13 more and more our culture and the gifts of Island 14 residents and opportunities to speak on various 15 subjects that are verboten or are not allowed on public 16 airwaves otherwise. 17 345 The news, I wonder about are there 18 blackouts or embargoes on news from places like 19 Eritrea. Is there no one to speak out when the Hutus 20 and the Tutsis massacre one another while the UN seeks 21 out someone to blame the whole fiasco on and uses a 22 scapegoat. And most unfortunately it was a Canadian 23 peacekeeper, a lieutenant colonel, I believe, who had 24 the fan pointing his way when the switch was turned on 25 in some sort of ersatz inquiry. A travesty to be sure StenoTran 68 1 when you look at the peacekeeping history of this 2 nation. 3 346 I think there has to be a very clear 4 policy decision with respect to giving the news, rather 5 than attempting to make the news and/or editorialize on 6 the news because that's quite outside of the news 7 world. 8 347 Far too often as I view the news, and 9 I view it less and less on CBC, because more and more 10 it's a class production rather than class content or 11 approach as newsmaking should be -- news reporting, 12 excuse me, should be. So I watch it less and less and 13 rely on other sources to get the real story. 14 348 E-mail is my primary source and I 15 receive anything from 10 to 15 e-mails a day from 16 various sources, that I can then sift through and look 17 at and decide for myself as to where this fits in the 18 total scheme of things. Most of it fits very well. 19 349 Excuse me if this is rather random or 20 hopping about, but that's the way it is. 21 350 I would like to think that we could 22 bring more decision-making closer to the delivery point 23 of programming. Local programs, local people and 24 events interspersed with national feed of -- well, 25 certainly in radio sense of music or programming which StenoTran 69 1 we wouldn't normally have available within the 2 province. And certainly the advent of CBC Two, to me, 3 has been a delight with the wide range of music and so 4 on. 5 351 I will speak to an exception to that 6 in a moment. 7 352 There certainly needs to be policy 8 that is open to all schools of thought and seeks 9 spokespersons who can add to the public's ability to 10 discern right and wrong, recognize truth and falsehood, 11 is far more challenging to the listening audience and 12 treats them as an intelligent, thinking group of 13 people, rather than as sponges to be filled with 14 someone else's perception as to what they should be 15 filled with. 16 353 Any bias or agenda manipulates and 17 assumes that the slant involved is the only correct and 18 proper course, and it's unfortunate if that's followed. 19 354 With respect to whether it should be 20 publicly owned, I disagree with the Reform Party 21 nationally who says there shouldn't be a public 22 broadcast organization. There should be a public 23 broadcast organization, but more so there should be a 24 public broadcast organization that is at arm's length 25 from government. StenoTran 70 1 355 There should be representation of the 2 population and varying philosophies or whatever within 3 the population in the managerial levels, thinking of 4 the CBC Board of Governors and such like. That is not 5 an elitist club. It should, if it's a national 6 organization, represent the country not some kind of an 7 elitist viewpoint. 8 356 We certainly have to remove the 9 National Capital Region from its wish to steer and 10 effect what the CBC does and what it is. We have to 11 remove the Cabinet, we have to remove the Prime 12 Minister from that sort of direct influence. It's not 13 a personal ownership thing; we all own it. 14 357 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir. You 15 have now been speaking for about more than 11 minutes. 16 358 MR. MacINTYRE: I'm sorry. I will 17 hasten my closing comments. 18 359 MR. STEWART: Much appreciated, thank 19 you. 20 360 MR. MacINTYRE: You say is the CBC 21 needed, well perhaps. But from my point of view, I say 22 yes. You see a mixed bag of responses within the 23 environment of the strike. You get a sense that 24 there's a lack of fervour in people with regard to the 25 CBC's temporary closure, but still when you get close StenoTran 71 1 to the situation, you realize that it very much is an 2 essential part of this country. 3 361 We see programs like "Emily of New 4 Moon", for instance, that is good programming. We see 5 instances, on the other hand, of terrible programming 6 that, as has been mentioned, is related to sex and 7 somehow stuck back in a decade that we have left 8 behind. 9 362 So what do we want out of the -- to 10 redress what we feel is a bias and certainly the two 11 programs that related to the loss of the person who was 12 involved in providing abortion services in Buffalo and 13 the programs that followed that were very biased. They 14 were very slanted. The interview with the President of 15 the Champion Life Coalition was cut down to a sound 16 bite that didn't at all represent what he was saying. 17 363 So the bias is there, the weight of 18 evidence is there. 19 364 The redress, is it de-funding CBC? I 20 don't think so. Is it just to get an apology? I don't 21 think so. But it's that there should be a quid pro 22 quo, there should be an opportunity for both sides, if 23 in fact one side gets a full play, for the other side 24 to get a full play and that's very difficult to get. 25 365 So I guess the question in my mind is StenoTran 72 1 what will you do about the evidence that's gathered? 2 What will happen with the comments, the information, 3 the input that comes from peoples' hearts and minds and 4 how will it effect the future in order to improve the 5 situation, to remove the bias, to bring about, you 6 know, the kind of programming, the kind of national 7 broadcasting organization that all of us want? 8 366 I will close with that. Thank you 9 very much. 10 367 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 11 Thank you and as for the matter on the bias for the CBC 12 to answer -- we're the CRTC, we're here to listen to 13 the views of Canadians conducting to the renewal of the 14 licence. As my colleague has said, we're not here to 15 shut down the CBC, au contraire, it's to renew its 16 licences. 17 368 Secondly, we're not here to fund or 18 not fund the CBC, it's not our role, it's a role of 19 government and Parliament. 20 369 And as for managing and choosing the 21 way the programs are done, it's a matter of the CBC and 22 as I have explained earlier when I introduced the 23 consultation, the CBC will have a reply at the end of 24 the session this afternoon and as well as the evening 25 session. StenoTran 73 1 370 And what we will be doing with all 2 the comments we will hear here and in all the cities, 3 there will be a written report that will be part of the 4 public hearing that will conduct to the renewal of all 5 of the licences of the CRTC -- not the CRTC. Mind you, 6 some would like that. 7 --- Laughter / Rires 8 371 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 9 But of the CBC. So it's useful information that will 10 help us kind of establish a dialogue into the public 11 hearing for the renewal. 12 372 MR. MacINTYRE: May I respond, Madam 13 Chairperson? 14 373 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 15 Well, I don't want to engage in a debate -- 16 374 MR. MacINTYRE: No, no, no, it's not 17 engaging in debate. 18 375 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 19 -- it's not the purpose at all of the -- I was just 20 bringing clarification -- 21 376 MR. MacINTYRE: Right. But the word 22 "bias" was used in the document to call for these. And 23 so that's why I addressed the matter of bias. 24 377 And in actual fact, the CBC should 25 hold similar things so that they hear firsthand -- StenoTran 74 1 378 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 2 They will have a chance, as I say, to make all the 3 replies they want at the end of this -- 4 379 MR. MacINTYRE: But be the host and 5 host this -- this kind of environment. 6 380 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 7 For them to answer. 8 381 MR. MacINTYRE: Yes. 9 1450 10 382 MR. STEWART: Merci, Madame la 11 Présidente. 12 383 I now invite Ms Hélène Smith to make 13 her presentation. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 384 MS SMITH: That's where my age shows 16 is in my back. 17 385 Well, panel, you have been welcomed, 18 so I won't repeat that, but I would like to thank you 19 for coming and I would like to thank you for this 20 opportunity to speak, although I'm only responding to 21 your initial invitation and I commend you for your 22 consistency. I received at least three phone calls 23 from Head Office or whatever, including this gentleman. 24 So I appreciated them all. 25 386 And I'm afraid my presentation will StenoTran 75 1 not be as polished as a Q.C., for example, who made an 2 excellent presentation, a professional singer and Ms 3 Laura Mair, who is a member of the ZONTA sisterhood or 4 club. 5 387 I'm a country girl, so my talk may be 6 a little bit folksy, but to borrow someone's 7 expression, it comes straight from the heart. But my 8 heart, no one else's. 9 388 I have no claim to fame except that I 10 did work two seasons for the Honourable Jean Chrétien 11 when he was Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs at 12 Louisbourg and I cherish those two seasons. They were 13 wonderful and it was before he had his personality 14 change. 15 --- Laughter / Rires 16 389 MS SMITH: My only other claim to 17 fame is that I worked for Veterans' Affairs where I 18 felt that in a manner I was doing my little bit for my 19 two half-brothers who were French Canadians from La 20 Belle Province, Leonard and Victor Tétreault. I felt 21 that I was carrying on where they had finished off. 22 390 So the only other thing I can say is 23 I have a record of being married for 53, almost 54 24 years to the same man. That's a record today. 25 --- Applause / Applaudissements StenoTran 76 1 391 MS SMITH: Okay. So I want to make 2 it clear that I'm speaking for myself and possibly for 3 other seniors who may be too intimidated to speak 4 publicly or they may not have the mobility required to 5 get here. We have no Island public transportation 6 outside of Charlottetown, you may not be aware of that. 7 Others may fear ridicule or repercussions even. It 8 happens here. 9 392 Being my father's daughter, a true 10 Robert, I don't even, after receiving my first hate 11 letter, anonymous, two weeks ago, it doesn't deter me 12 one bit. It had nothing to do with this, but my father 13 was brave and I'm my father's daughter. 14 393 What is the role of the CBC Radio and 15 TV? What do you think of radio and TV? Were the 16 questions we were asked in our directions here. 17 394 I wanted to respond to this 18 thoughtful invitation issued by the CRTC before the 19 strike and applaud them for their courage in pursuing 20 this initiative under difficult, strained and charged 21 conditions. 22 395 I have listened to CBC Radio for over 23 57 years. Prior to that I couldn't, I didn't have a 24 radio. I have tuned into CBC Radio in three different 25 provinces. First, in La Belle Province where I was StenoTran 77 1 born, then in Neil's Harbour and Louisbourg, Cape 2 Breton, as I mentioned, where we lived and worked for 3 two and a half years. Briefly in Kemptville, Nova 4 Scotia and for the past 28 years in six different 5 communities of the province of my choice, Prince Edward 6 Island. 7 396 Fifty-seven years of listening do not 8 make me an authority on CBC, but I believe it proves 9 that I am a devoted, faithful, unshakeable listener and 10 just look at me here, and this bag that's so well worn 11 that I won years ago. 12 397 As such, plus the fact that my tax 13 dollars in my working years and those of my 90-year old 14 husband, give me the right to express what I like and 15 what I don't like about CBC Radio and Television. 16 398 I like CBC Radio because it is both 17 informative and entertaining. It has the advantage 18 over TV that one can enjoy it while going about their 19 mundane chores from which a woman never seems to 20 retire. 21 399 Within recent years, Sunday 22 afternoons, "Tapestry" has become a must for me. It is 23 a mosaic of opinions on faith and spirituality from 24 people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds. 25 It was uplifting to hear one of our religious studies StenoTran 78 1 professors from UPEI share his innermost thoughts not 2 long ago on this program. 3 400 "Cross Canada Checkup" is another 4 must. Rex Murphy ably monitors, as did his 5 predecessors in dialogue from coast to coast. 6 401 But please, Rex or whoever chooses 7 the topic, no more Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton 8 rehashing. Leave that to Americans. CBC drama short 9 stories are good for the most part, but interviews, 10 interminable of authors are boring, at least to me, 11 especially when they explore the psyche of the 12 fictitious characters. 13 402 Clive Gilmour's albums of classical 14 music were part of my Sunday. Also greatly missed will 15 be "Front Porch Al". "As It Happens" with Barbara Budd 16 and Mary Lou Finlay is always interesting, timely, 17 informative. 18 403 "Ideas", Monday to Friday after the 19 9:00 p.m. news is an education in itself. And it is 20 part of mine. 21 404 This year's Massey Lectures with 22 speaker Jean Vanier, a living saint in my opinion, was 23 no exception. For content, quality, inspiration and 24 spirituality. 25 405 In fact, I give some of the credit to StenoTran 79 1 my selection of CBC programs over these past six, seven 2 years for the success with which I'm pursuing a 3 Bachelor of Arts, if I live long enough, at UPEI. I 4 just need two more credits to finish my third year, and 5 I pray God will let me live long enough to do the 6 fourth year and graduate. 7 406 I don't want to be the dummy of the 8 family, my husband has a Doctorate and my 9 grandchildren, one has a college degree from Ottawa and 10 is working towards her Master. And my grandson wants 11 to be an engineer. So only my son and I were the ones 12 without degrees, but that doesn't mean that we don't 13 deserve them. 14 407 Peter Gzowski, was it Theresa who 15 referred to him, how I loved that man -- oh, I mean his 16 program. It was a thrill to meet him at the Prince 17 Edward Hotel when he came to act as moderator on the 18 Link Hearings. I must say he looked better on radio 19 than in person though. 20 --- Laughter / Rires 21 408 MS SMITH: The late Barbara Frum was 22 a class one, one-A broadcaster. Max Ferguson, how many 23 of you remember him? Sitting in old rawhide. He was 24 able to lift me out of my most sombre mood. His 25 imitations were superior to that of any American person StenoTran 80 1 I have had the misfortune to hear. 2 409 I have heard his sketches full of 3 satire and truth, but they were never mean-spirited. 4 And I had the privilege of meeting him at Ingonish and 5 he even did an impersonation for us in the Ingonish 6 Hall for an organ benefit my husband and I did. 7 410 And I could mention Don Messer's "Hoe 8 Down" and "Tommy Hunter" demised before their time. 9 411 Now, what I dislike about radio -- 10 the things I dislike are: Oh, why do they keep saying 11 "20 minutes at the bottom of the hour" or "ten minutes 12 to the top of the hour". If you don't have your 13 glasses on or worst still, if you're blind like my 14 husband or if the power's off, how the heck do you know 15 what the hour is and never mind if it's ten minutes to 16 or 20 at the bottom or whatever? 17 412 I also have little sympathy for 18 announcers, radio and television, who can't learn to 19 pronounce important French surnames, such as Chrétien, 20 Marchand, Belliveau, not "Bell-i-veau" or la "provence" 21 de Quebec which has no "provences" -- it's a province, 22 not a state. I hope it never will be. 23 413 I find vulgarity disgusting and 24 unnecessary when it is on radio and TV and a bad 25 influence on children. Many films, sexually explicit StenoTran 81 1 or depicting violence are shown too early in the 2 evening and seen by children whose parents do not 3 monitor their viewing. 4 414 I could talk about the French CBC TV 5 in Quebec, but maybe that isn't relevant for here. 6 There are wonderful programs, including one in which 7 Gilles Duceppe's father played in. Now, there was a 8 man. 9 415 "Air Farce" is still my favourite fun 10 program and long may it live. 11 416 My very favourite CBC Radio programs 12 are the local ones. "Island Morning", "Radio Noon", 13 the multi-faceted guest phone-in show hosted by Kostas 14 Salibrasos, Stan Currew(ph) brings his touch to early 15 Saturday and Sunday morning two-hour programs, but I 16 really preferred his predecessor, maybe because he was 17 an old fellow like me, closer to my age. 18 417 "Compass" is the perfect end to a 19 perfect P.E.I. day. There's something for everyone as 20 has been mentioned by other speakers. From Tignish to 21 North Lake and from the South Shore to the North Shore. 22 There's something so reassuring and permanent about 23 Roger Younker, and I shouldn't single him out because 24 we love all our CBC staff here. 25 418 But Roger is our anchorman. He's our StenoTran 82 1 own local Peter Mansbridge who belongs to the National, 2 which is great to watch now that it's back at ten 3 o'clock. 4 419 P.E.I. is small in size, but big in 5 ideas, you better believe it. Diversity in its people, 6 occupations and communities. Despite the bridge it is 7 still somewhat insular and I hope it will remain that 8 way. It is part of that indefinable Island way of life 9 which we who are Islanders either by birth or by 10 adoption, as I am, we cherish it without questioning or 11 questioning too much why. We just cherish it, the 12 Island way of life. Don't ask us what it is, but it's 13 there and we love it. It's a feeling more than a 14 being. 15 420 The local programs for radio and TV 16 nourish and bind us together as a province, just as the 17 other program nourish and bind us as a country, Canada. 18 421 It puts the local programs, puts 19 everyone, politicians, MLAs, mayors, Federal Members of 20 Parliament, counsellors, working people, young and old 21 on an equal footing, because we can exercise our right 22 to talk back and discuss the pros and cons of the 23 issues that affect us, such as health cuts, cuts to 24 welfare, UI changes, even the name changed, land use 25 and we even discussed our dumps, where they should be StenoTran 83 1 and where they shouldn't be. It's all important to us. 2 422 M. STEWART: Madame Smith, je 3 m'excuse, vous avez dépassé 14 minutes. 4 423 MME SMITH: Excusez-moi, c'est mon 5 défaut. Je parle trop longtemps. Excusez-moi, 6 monsieur. Est-ce que je pourrais juste résumer? 7 424 M. STEWART: Oui, bien sûr. 8 425 MME SMITH: Merci. My apologies. I 9 always prepare too much to say and I just want to say 10 that we have provided many brains and talents for the 11 CBC over the years. 12 426 Lenny Gallant, to name one, Theresa 13 Doyle, who you just saw, and I don't know how many of 14 you have seen, but you will see "Crumbfest" again, by 15 Professor David Weale of UPEI, it's going to become a 16 children's classic. And the man who refers to himself 17 as "that old curmudgeon", the beloved Jack MacAndrew. 18 He's Grandfather Mouse's voice, no less in that. 19 427 So we have furnished many people, 20 Martha MacIsaac. But we have even furnished a 21 Solicitor General for Canada, what do you think of 22 that? 23 428 So have I made my case for CBC Radio 24 and TV? I hope so. And I hope that the national dream 25 of a railway, which is now a nightmare with our StenoTran 84 1 highways too crowded with trucks and the other cuts, I 2 hope at least the CBC will remain to keep us bound 3 together because we need it, because the present 4 government doesn't need the province of Quebec to tear 5 us apart, they're doing too good of a job as it is 6 already. 7 429 So I will just stand by my holster 8 which I made with -- it took me a lot of time and I'm 9 not used to this type of work. 10 430 I want to say that CBC Radio and TV 11 belongs to you and me. We like CBC. We want CBC. We 12 deserve CBC. We pay for CBC with our taxes, of course. 13 Give us back our CBC and the sooner the better. 14 431 Merci beaucoup mesdames and 15 messieurs. 16 --- Applause / Applaudissements 17 432 LA PRÉSIDENTE DU CONSEIL: Alors, sur 18 ces paroles, I would propose that we take a coffee 19 break for ten minutes and we will be back to pursue. 20 433 Thank you. 21 --- Recess at 1507 / Suspension à 1507 22 --- Upon resuming at 1523 / Reprise à 1523 23 434 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 24 Please, to order. We will start again. 25 435 And we will try to stick to the ten StenoTran 85 1 minutes, if you want, because I don't want anyone to be 2 late for dinner and we'd like to be starting the 3 evening session as planned at six o'clock. 4 436 So with this in mind we will really 5 keep our questions to ourselves, as well. 6 437 Mr. Stewart? 7 438 MR. STEWART: Merci, Madame la 8 Présidente. 9 439 And for the information of the people 10 here, once the ten minute mark has been reached I will 11 advise the presenter and it would be appreciated if one 12 could then conclude the remarks just as soon as 13 possible. 14 440 I now call upon Ms Elaine Harrison to 15 make her presentation. This is a slight change to the 16 order. 17 441 MS HARRISON: Am I heard by 18 everybody? Good, because boy, I want to be heard. 19 442 And if you want to come in on any 20 part of it, with a little refrain -- 21 443 MR. STEWART: Excuse me. Something 22 appears wrong with the microphone, I wonder if the 23 technical people -- 24 444 MS HARRISON: I will try again. 25 445 MR. STEWART: I wonder, Madam, if you StenoTran 86 1 could, perhaps use another microphone. 2 446 MS HARRISON: Do you want me to move? 3 --- Pause / Pause 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 447 MS HARRISON: How does that sound? 6 Still no good? 7 448 Thank you very much for asking me, I 8 will try to get through this as fast as I can. 9 449 I'm delighted to be here this 10 afternoon. And instead of my talking about the CBC, I 11 will have the CBC do the talking. 12 450 I have been a great follower of the 13 CBC all my life, and it's a long time. So here is the 14 refrain that I start with: "I am the CBC. I am the 15 voice of Canada and the Maritimes", of course. 16 451 And if you want to come in on that 17 refrain so you can let your voices have a little bit of 18 play there, all you people who are observing, come in 19 with it whenever I start that, you say, "I am the CBC. 20 I am the voice of Canada and the Maritimes", of course. 21 452 From the Atlantic to the Pacific 22 Ocean. From the Arctic to the Great Lakes, I sing the 23 songs and poems of the Maritimes. The wide plains of 24 Saskatchewan and Manitoba and the peaks of the Rocky 25 Mountains. I sing with Louis Marshall, Maureen StenoTran 87 1 Forrester, the Aylmer Aisler(ph) Singers, Rita MacNeil, 2 with Anne Murray and Lenny Gallant, our Island Lenny 3 Gallant, and other singers, of course. 4 453 How's that going now? 5 454 I tell the stories of W.O. Mitchell, 6 Margaret Laurence, Farley Mowat, Margaret Atwood, 7 Antony Meilleur, Michel Tremblay, Gabrielle Roy. I am 8 the CBC. I am the voice of Canada. 9 455 Nobody's saying anything, you're all 10 shy. Well, I'm not. 11 456 I go on stage with Viola Léger(ph) as 12 "La Sagouine", with the cast of "Anne of Green Gables" 13 and "Emily of New Moon", and "Les Belles"(ph). I dance 14 in the National Ballet and I clap my hands to accompany 15 the folk dancers and fiddlers from across the land. 16 457 I listen to the Montreal Symphony and 17 to Glenn Gould, Harry Somers and all the others. 18 458 I can't mention everybody or you'd be 19 here until midnight, but I am mentioning some of the 20 very outstanding ones that I like. 21 459 I ponder ideas with the great 22 thinkers, Northrop Frye and Ursula Franklin, Norm 23 Chomsky(ph), John Soul(ph) in the Massey Lectures, 24 which the CBC is noted for. 25 460 I am the CBC. I am the voice of StenoTran 88 1 Canada. 2 461 Come on all you shy people. I'm a 3 bit of a clown, don't mind me, I'm rather serious here, 4 but I would rather clown it up. Like, I thought 5 that -- what's her name who just stood before me -- she 6 was wonderful. We'd have a hard job to beat her. 7 462 I laugh with the "Air Farce", "This 8 Hour Has 22 Minutes", Don Harron and Catherine 9 McKinnon. I talk with all those wonderful ones from 10 the Island show, Roger Younker, Karen Meair, Wayne 11 Collins and I like my Michael Enright and Averil Benoit 12 and Eleanor Walktel(ph), Edgar Arsenault, Betty 13 Howitt(ph), Jack MacAndrew or Vicki Gabereau, the whole 14 works. I like the CBC. 15 463 And I am the CBC. And I certainly 16 have listened to it all my life. 17 464 I will never forget Maggie 18 Muggins(ph), Rawhide. I once sent Rawhide some 19 lobsters, which he -- and I wrote in his language, you 20 know, the way he was talking there, I could do that 21 quite easily too. 22 465 Don Messer's Islanders, they were 23 great. "The Friendly Giant" and the farm programs, I 24 forget the name of the farm program. 25 466 And from Fernwood(ph) to Parliament StenoTran 89 1 Hill I cover the news. I am the CBC. I am the voice 2 of Canada and the Maritimes. 3 467 I am the past of Canada and I am the 4 future. And in the present I'm being threatened, you 5 know why, by -- I shouldn't say it, they might hear 6 me -- by the politicians and people who want to silence 7 me and cut me back with not enough money and then turn 8 me into the voice -- Lord forbid -- of the American 9 programs. 10 468 And this same silencing threatens our 11 schools and universities, our health care and 12 hospitals, our unemployment insurance, our workers, all 13 these things that have made Canada great. 14 469 But I don't think we will be 15 silenced, for I am the CBC. I am the voice of Canada 16 and the Maritimes and Prince Edward Island most of all. 17 So there I am. 18 470 I hope I got through it fast enough. 19 Thank you very much. 20 471 I hope I didn't miss a page. 21 --- Applause / Applaudissements 22 472 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 23 Thank you. 24 1532 25 473 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Madrien StenoTran 90 1 Ferris to make her presentation. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 474 MS FERRIS: Hello everybody. 4 475 I have been given two very difficult 5 acts to follow. I'm not sure I'm up to it. 6 476 What keeping CBC means to me as a 7 Canadian, a Maritimer, an Islander and as a personal 8 thing. I see CBC as the communities bridging Canada. 9 477 As a Canadian it's connecting Canada 10 from one end to the other. When you travel from 11 Newfoundland, a small village there to the Gulf Coast 12 Islands or to the far north, you still feel at home 13 because you hear familiar voices, you still feel 14 connected to the rest of the country. 15 478 CBC provides an honest coverage of 16 topics of interest to all of us. It is a venue for our 17 playwrights, our actors and our musicians. And what a 18 talented group we have. 19 479 As a Maritimer, it keeps us informed 20 of our sister provinces in an in-depth way. It allows 21 us to become familiar with their problems and concerns. 22 480 And as an Islander, well, we hear 23 about our local events, our regional and our national 24 events. But on local CBC we hear and see more than 25 just a 30-second blurb on another station. StenoTran 91 1 481 Just as an example, there was quite a 2 snow storm up west, just since this trouble with the 3 CBC has happened, and did we see any of it on local TV, 4 no. Did we hear very much about it on local radio, no. 5 And yet it was of deep concern with a lot of us with 6 relatives and people in the western part of the Island. 7 482 We need this type of coverage here. 8 Somebody said we don't have bus or anything else. We 9 don't have a train. So, the radio and television is 10 the connecting link on Prince Edward Island as well. 11 483 We want and we should have and it is 12 our right to have the best communication possible and 13 that is CBC radio and television. We have lost enough 14 here. 15 484 Now, on a more personal note, I 16 recently suffered a heart attack. Now, that's very 17 scary. You are in a strange environment. You are 18 hooked up to tubes. You are hooked up to all kinds of 19 machines and you are petrified and that was the big 20 thing with me. I was scared to death. I was scared to 21 move. A nurse asked me what I would like, if there was 22 anything I needed and I said, "I wish they would put a 23 TV in the ICU or a radio," because you just want to try 24 to get out of the way of all of these other things that 25 are happening to you. StenoTran 92 1 485 So, she went out and she found a 2 little radio for me. This was around maybe 5:30 in the 3 morning or something. She took it in and put it on the 4 CBC station. My God, there was Karen and Wayne and for 5 the first time since I had the heart attack I started 6 to relax. I closed my eyes and I imagined I was home 7 in my own bed listening to this wonderful program that 8 I wake up with every morning. As I do with CBC, I wake 9 up with it and it is probably the last thing that I 10 hear at night is an announced from CBC. 11 486 So, it is not just a connecting link 12 for Canadians, but in my heart, for my heart, CBC was 13 the best thing that ever could have happened to me. 14 Thank you. 15 --- Applause / Applaudissements 16 487 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 17 Thank you. 18 488 1539 19 489 MR. STEWART: I now would invite 20 Ms Catherine Hennessey to make a presentation. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 490 MS HENNESSEY: Thank you very much. 23 491 Many of us here on this Island were 24 brought up with CFCY operated by the Rogers family. I 25 think that their approach to broadcasting and their StenoTran 93 1 catholic tastes prepared us to be loyal CBC fans. I 2 certainly am proud to call myself one of those. 3 492 By listening and watching CBC 4 broadcasting it has strengthened our connections 5 trans-Canada wise and I have personally valued those 6 connections with my family who are off in the west and 7 my colleagues that work for similar causes as my own. 8 It has given me an understanding of problems in other 9 parts of this country. 10 493 Since the sixties I have been a 11 cultural activist. It is awfully hard to be an 12 activist if you are being ignored. So many of our 13 successes and public successes are due to the support 14 we have received on many of our causes from the CBC. 15 Our quivering beginnings on both television and radio 16 were helped along -- not that we have stopped 17 quivering -- by the warmth and friendship of CBC staff. 18 494 We have a staff in Charlottetown that 19 moves among us, whose friendships enrich our lives and 20 who have caused us to stretch and I think that one 21 could say that by doing this that their broadcasting 22 and their view of us and our heritage and culture has 23 been enriched. 24 495 So, I just want to say that I, for 25 one, in my work have truly appreciated the support I StenoTran 94 1 have gotten over the years from CBC radio and 2 television. 3 496 You say we have no power over money 4 and maybe that's true. I don't think we ask Canadians 5 to contribute to the CBC cause financially enough. I 6 don't think we do it at all. I don't think any of us 7 have missed the overload of asking that goes on in 8 public broadcasting in the United States and I feel 9 that maybe we, who care so much, have to put our money 10 where our mouth is. 11 497 Thank you very much. 12 --- Applause / Applaudissements 13 498 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 14 Thank you. 15 1540 16 499 MR. STEWART: I now would invite 17 Ms Carla Morgan to make a presentation. Is Ms Morgan 18 in the room? No. 19 500 Mr. Naylor who is next on the list 20 has advised that he will not be attending. So I would 21 now invite Mr. Kip Smith to make his presentation. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 501 MR. SMITH: Good afternoon. I would 24 like to thank the Chair of the CRTC and the 25 Commissioner for visiting the province, as well as the StenoTran 95 1 nine others. I hope you have a chance to hear from the 2 territories as well because they too are distant from 3 Toronto and Ottawa and city sensibility. So, I will 4 attempt to answer your four proposed question in kind 5 of a general, narrative form. 6 502 I will admit at the top that I am an 7 unabashed fan of public broadcasting, in particular 8 CBC. To me our Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has 9 produced the best radio and television shows I have 10 ever heard or seen. 11 503 Growing up in Virginia in the fifties 12 and sixties we had no public broadcasting available. 13 Private radio stations had small news bureaus, short 14 newscasts made up of mostly ripped from the newswire 15 stories, with very little resources in our communities. 16 The newscasts were jammed between commercials and pop 17 music. National public radio in the U.S. was not 18 prominent at that time on the radio dial. There was no 19 cable TV or independent news available, other than the 20 three major networks. 21 504 News events around the world were 22 covered by corporations that have since been accused of 23 pushing a national and corporate agenda into their news 24 reports at that time, an agenda not necessarily present 25 in a national broadcaster. This became obvious to me StenoTran 96 1 when I moved to P.E.I. in 1973. 2 505 Specifically, stories about the 3 Vietnam war and politics in the U.S. were dramatically 4 different here than in the States, and not because CBC 5 reporters were ignorant of the facts or nuances of the 6 stories. They were not cheerleaders for the U.S. 7 simply. They were reporting for a neutral country with 8 what seemed to be little bias. 9 506 In my opinion, CBC's news and current 10 affairs departments have been unparalleled by the 11 private broadcasters in the past, but I see and hear 12 that this has been changing. 13 507 Over the years we have lost news 14 bureaus around the world and have had to rely on 15 reports from the private, general U.S. bureaus, such as 16 CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS. I sense that these networks still 17 bring a U.S. bias and point of view to any story they 18 cover. I sense that the Canadian perspective and 19 neutrality, peacemaking and evenness recognized around 20 the world is lost as the CBC cuts back their commitment 21 to news-gathering because of budget constraints. 22 508 I hope that the CRTC could perhaps 23 specify that the news content of the CBC be Canadian, 24 that if they are going to get a budget for news that 25 they should have a foreign bureau in places that are StenoTran 97 1 important to Canadians. 2 509 Here on P.E.I., our local CBC station 3 is a gem, but it seems that this station is threatened 4 by a national policy governed by CBC in Toronto. We 5 keep hearing how regional supper-hour shows are a waste 6 of money and resources and that they might be cut back. 7 Perhaps some or many of these shows around the country 8 are losing viewers and ad revenue, but here on P.E.I. 9 things are different. This is a distinct community and 10 most of us gather around the TV at 6:00 p.m. to watch 11 our local news hour. We watch our community reflected 12 back to us and by local people, familiar with all the 13 background necessary to inform us about the happenings 14 on our Island. 15 510 This is a successful show with nearly 16 85 per cent viewership ratings in the first half 17 hour -- I am told that, and not a small amount of local 18 ad revenues. 19 511 Your Commission has ruled that local 20 ad revenues must stay in the locality. I urge you to 21 continue that policy and I urge you to find a way to 22 separate our successful local station from any new 23 national CBC policy that would cut broadcasting into 24 regions, and in particular on Prince Edward Island, in 25 favour of a national approach. StenoTran 98 1 512 It's crucial to our Canadian 2 community that the regions be allowed to reflect their 3 communities to residents and to the rest of the nation. 4 We have already lost a lot here in Charlottetown. We 5 have had cuts to radio and television shows that did an 6 excellent job of reflecting our community to ourselves 7 and the nation. Those cuts were general ones across 8 the CBC system, regardless of the success of the 9 ratings of the programming. 10 513 "Sounds of the Island," a very 11 popular local variety TV show that showcased P.E.I. 12 musical talent was axed because of a national policy in 13 budget cuts. 14 514 Unfortunately, a few years later, 15 Celtic and traditional music became famous world-wide, 16 but we had lost our show and Island talent had to find 17 other entrées into the burgeoning world of maritime 18 music. That was an opportunity squandered. 19 515 Another program, "Window on Resources 20 Television" was axed, even though it was popular on 21 P.E.I. and had a good viewership because it focused on 22 the main businesses here, farming, fishing, forestry 23 and even tourism. For years we were without this 24 information asset until our own provincial government 25 began to produce their own program, "Focus on StenoTran 99 1 Resources," but that's on cable. I live in a rural 2 community. I don't have cable, so I miss this program. 3 516 I think Islanders are much better off 4 when they are informed about their main industries. 5 Either they are directly involved in them or affected 6 by what happens in them. A special case for the 7 importance of community information can be made here on 8 P.E.I. 9 517 I worked as a broadcast journalist, 10 production assistant, freelancer in radio here at CBC 11 from 1980 to 1986. We produced the "Radio Noon Show" 12 and "Soundings," the maritime fisheries broadcast, a 13 solid hour of information for the important industries 14 on the Island and in the maritimes. 15 518 We sent many stories on to the region 16 and the national radio shows. We developed expertise 17 and background in the industry. 18 519 Since our main beats were the primary 19 resource industries so important to P.E.I.'s economy, 20 our contacts with the players in the industry, our 21 background file cabinets grew. We attained credibility 22 in the eyes of those in the industry, those working in 23 government departments and with the listeners, many of 24 whom were not in the industries, but interested in our 25 stories nonetheless. StenoTran 100 1 520 We got a lot of feedback from 2 Islanders and when we took the time to go on location 3 at fairs, rallies, public meetings, then a decision was 4 made at CBC headquarters in Toronto, cut the local 5 radio noon shows, cut narrow casting shows, like the 6 fishermen's broadcasting. Regionalize the shows to the 7 maritimes by broadcasting from Halifax and, oh yes, 8 change the focus from industry-style information to 9 information for the consumer. 10 521 Those cutbacks cut our staff 11 drastically. Now one reporter broadcasts for "Radio 12 Noon Maritimes" from P.E.I. and each of his stories 13 must pass the test, will it play in Halifax, an urban 14 environment removed from what we call here the Island 15 way of life. 16 522 Concurrent with those cutbacks and 17 loss of information shows was a crisis in the Atlantic 18 fishery unlike any ever seen before. Fishermen were 19 left with no fisheries broadcast to deal with their 20 important issues and provide information to a 21 separated, widely divergent industry. I know this 22 because when I was laid off at CBC I bought into a 23 fishing enterprise. 24 523 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: This is not a 25 good-lucky story, is it? Does it have a happy ending? StenoTran 101 1 524 MR. SMITH: Oh, yes. 2 525 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Oh, good. 3 526 MR. SMITH: And from that I got 4 involved in fishermen's groups and then represented 5 fishermen in the maritimes. And I know how important 6 it would have been to have a central focal point for 7 information. 8 527 Divergent groups, all over the 9 maritimes, different groups, different priorities -- 10 information, you know, good, straight, clean 11 information for the fishermen was not to be had and you 12 still see, you know, problems within that industry 13 because of a lack of cohesiveness information between 14 the groups, and governments suffered too because of 15 this. 16 528 Also, since the loss of our local 17 radio noon, unique problems and challenges have arisen 18 in P.E.I.'s agriculture. Ask any farmer. There has 19 been an information vacuum for years -- years in crisis 20 for Island farmers, not Halifax farmers, but for Island 21 farmers. 22 529 Recently, Island wood lot owners have 23 faced a crisis in receiving information about a 24 proposed forestry practices code and have not been 25 informed very well by the local media. StenoTran 102 1 530 Government and industry people 2 mistrust each other, and that is what is being 3 portrayed in the media, more heat than illumination. 4 With apologies to the local CBC radio, like a news 5 gatherer for the news shows, and especially when they 6 feed into the maritimes, they might not have the 7 background that a specialist in the resource industries 8 used to have. 9 531 The stories are generally shorter 10 stories and it has come out of Toronto too. The 11 stories they look for are protagonists/antagonists; 12 conflict, a little bit of heat, a little bit of 13 illumination, something that you will find on the 14 private broadcasters because this is what Toronto 15 thinks people want to see and hear. 16 532 I fear that mergers within the media 17 are concentrating the control of the private media; 18 radio, TV and newspapers in the hands of a few, who 19 will likely continue to foist their own editorial slant 20 on the news. This centralization of control 21 underscores the requirement that an unfettered, free 22 and neutral public broadcaster should remain well 23 funded and effective. 24 533 I think CBC keeps the private media 25 sources honest. There is an increased concentration of StenoTran 103 1 corporate ownership of Canada's media. The CBC 2 provides the needed counter-balance to make sure that 3 important stories are told and sometimes in depth. 4 534 "Live at Five", and that's on a 5 private broadcaster, is a good indication of what a 6 private broadcaster would do -- a formula show that was 7 dreamed up in the States and they had all kinds of 8 specialists come up here and tell them how to make the 9 set and stand in front of it and do that kind of quick 10 sound-bite news that CBC, I hope, never gets to. 11 535 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, Mr. Smith. 12 You have hit the 10-minute mark. 13 536 MR. SMITH: All right. I will just 14 finish up. 15 537 I am concerned about the political 16 pressure that can be brought to bear on the Corporation 17 by a Board appointed by the government in power. The 18 President of the CRTC is appointed by the Prime 19 Minister. It could be seen to be less than 20 independent. 21 538 Also, the Board of the CBC is 22 appointed by Cabinet. I see a problem with that. I 23 hope the CRTC would consider making that from a 24 committee in Parliament or with somebody who is 25 answerable to all parties, all Canadians. StenoTran 104 1 539 I would like to see the CRTC 2 reinstate a surcharge that you used to talk about on 3 cable networks that broadcast non-Canadian shows. 4 There is a bit of revenue there for CBC. Make it even 5 a show-by-show tax. 6 540 I would like to see the CRTC make it 7 a condition of CBC's licence that Radio-Canada 8 International remain in business. That presents a 9 Canadian perspective to the world. 10 541 From what we found here on the 11 Island, no matter what stories we told here, they might 12 seem small Island stories, but there is no such thing 13 as a small story. They are all universal. I would 14 like for the chance of Island stories to continue to be 15 told. 16 542 Lastly, the Internet, you might hear, 17 well, you could pick up Radio Australia or what you 18 want. I just remind the CRTC that the Internet is not 19 free and it is not necessarily accessible to each and 20 every computer. You have to have an up-to-date 21 computer and even here on the Island with community 22 access sites, they don't have the speakers and sound 23 cards, et cetera. So, that's not an answer and it 24 won't take the place of the CBC. 25 543 Lastly, TV productions, private TV StenoTran 105 1 productions must be supported by and aired on CBC. 2 Thank you. 3 --- Applause / Applaudissements 4 544 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 5 Thank you, sir. 6 1550 7 545 MR. STEWART: I now invite 8 Mr. William Minnis to make his presentation. 9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 10 546 MR. MINNIS: Thank you. 11 547 Madam Chairperson, as others have 12 said, I very much appreciate the opportunity to make a 13 presentation to you. I am also a very strong 14 supporters of the CBC, both radio and television. 15 548 I would like to begin with kudos as 16 well, since several have been delivered earlier. I 17 find that the Atlantic coverage is quite good out of 18 Halifax. I am a great fan of Kostas Salibrasos and one 19 particularly good reporter I find, Mr. Mac Campbell. 20 The "Radio Noon Show" is really outstanding. The 21 Island "Morning Encompass" programs from the Island are 22 also excellent. 23 549 I will never get over the CBC cutting 24 out my "Sunday Morning". I will never forgive them 25 and, frankly, I miss Nancy White and her satirical StenoTran 106 1 approach to life. We need more satire in the process. 2 550 I must, as others have said also, 3 state that the CBC has been quite important to me over 4 my lifetime. First, in my only link with Canada and 5 the world while growing up in a very remote northern 6 community, where the time one could spend listening to 7 the CBC was limited only by the number of batteries 8 that father could fly into a remote community. CBC 9 Watrous, Saskatchewan was an early part of one's life. 10 551 I have lived in all regions of Canada 11 and it has been essential as a youngster growing up to 12 learn of the country through the CBC. It was an 13 essential learning tool. 14 552 Lastly, it has been a link to Canada 15 for me during nearly 20 years of foreign military 16 service, all through Radio Canada International. 17 553 Some of my views, if I may. I see 18 politicization as a very discomforting thing. I have 19 just completed 37 years of military service as a senior 20 officer and I have observed the politicization of an 21 institution, a Canadian institution and a professional 22 officer corps in that time. It is a complex and 23 controversial matter, but the process is insidious. It 24 is continuous and in the case of the Canadian Forces it 25 has been extremely damaging. StenoTran 107 1 554 I like the Oxford Concise definition 2 of "politicization", quote, "give political character 3 to," unquote. Undue control by government is not 4 necessarily in the public's best interest. I leave 5 that at that. 6 555 Please strive to continue the balance 7 between national and regional service -- regional 8 meaning local as well as regional. Canada is just too 9 large to do without regional coverage. 10 556 Next, I believe the CBC must strive 11 to continue to increase reporting from beyond our 12 shores. The closure of foreign bureaus is a terrible 13 thing. Our future as a nation depends upon public 14 understandings of important issues facing this country 15 externally. They are external to the domestic debate 16 and issues, but they must be understood and dealt with. 17 557 I believe Canadians to be rather 18 provincial folk, if I may be so bold, and we must know 19 and understand this rather cruel and unstable world 20 beyond our daily lives. We tend to focus inward to a 21 great extent. It is wonderful, but it is also 22 dangerous and we will be at risk to forces we do not 23 understand and the CBC, I am afraid, plays a very large 24 part in ensuring that understanding of that world to 25 Canadians, not that an attempt is not made to do so, StenoTran 108 1 but I stress that it must not be reduced. If anything, 2 increased. 3 558 All of this from one who has seen 4 ample evidence of our fellow man's willingness to use 5 whatever means necessary to achieve their own ends. I 6 would like to remind you that in much of the world 7 Canada is very small potatoes indeed. 8 559 We may think we are big, but in many 9 parts of the world not quite seen the same way, and 10 vulnerable, by the way. 11 560 Now, to the next issue of commercials 12 on television. I have had the good fortune of living 13 in a number of other countries, in particularly Norway 14 and The Netherlands, where the national television 15 organizations organize commercials in a segmented form. 16 Several other speaks have mentioned that. It's quite 17 effective. 18 561 Unquestionably, the commercials are 19 necessary, but can we apply some ingenious thinking to 20 some way to partial them a little more acceptably? 21 562 I mentioned Radio Canada 22 International. Many Canadians have never heard of it, 23 let alone hear it, but it is very important to 24 Canadians overseas. It has kept me sane in various 25 parts of the world from team sites in the jungles of StenoTran 109 1 Vietnam to the Sinai Desert to the African bush, and 2 quite critical to those who live outside of our 3 country. 4 563 Next, I would add a personal view 5 that the CBC must strive to strengthen other important 6 national institutions. And, in my particular case, I 7 quote the Canadian Forces. I am a strong fan of the 8 RCMP as well, amongst other organizations and 9 institutions of course. 10 564 I understand the CRTC's role in 11 ensuring the accountability of public institutions, but 12 the CBC must be very careful to achieve balanced 13 reporting. A gentleman here earlier mentioned Rwanda 14 and, in fact, the gentleman he referred to is a general 15 named Roméo Dallaire -- you have heard of him -- who 16 sees himself very much as a scapegoat and did for some 17 considerable time. Only now I think is his name being 18 adequately cleared and the entire Rwanda/United Nations 19 affair being put into perspective. 20 565 I know him extremely well. You could 21 not find a more dedicated, honest, professional 22 officer. He is now suffering very badly from 23 post-traumatic stress disorder. He may never be the 24 same man, and part of his trauma, I believe, and I 25 don't wish to personalize this excessively and perhaps StenoTran 110 1 I should not be quoted in saying so, but I know that 2 for some time he felt that Canadians probably saw him 3 as guilty of something. Adequate context and coverage 4 could have perhaps prevented that impression being 5 gotten by Canadians. 6 566 Now, it is a complex issue and there 7 are many opinions on the matter, I realize. That just 8 happens to be mine. 9 567 For every brick removed or dealt with 10 one must be replaced and the wall should be 11 strengthened at the end of the process. 12 568 I absolutely hate sensationalist 13 journalism, as so many speakers have said today, and I 14 find it creeping in continually to CBC television. We 15 must try and avoid that kind of journalism, that style 16 of journalism. 17 569 I don't wish to overstate the case, 18 but I think it is fair to posit that Canada still faces 19 very considerable obstacles to its survival as a 20 sovereign nation in the decades to come. We may be 21 overly complacent. 22 570 Certainly, survival as a sovereign 23 nation, able to pursue the betterment of its people, as 24 opposed to becoming a resource base and a holiday 25 destination for an America about to steamroller an StenoTran 111 1 unsuspecting world, and an unformed public is obviously 2 critical to this process. And the CBC is a great 3 nation builder and this must continue. 4 571 The only question I have is -- it's 5 not a question so much as a sense of frustration in 6 looking for the leadership necessary in this country to 7 somehow strengthen this Corporation. I see and sense a 8 great void of leadership. I don't know from whence it 9 will come, but it must be forthcoming. I just wonder 10 how Canadians can take the actions necessary to have 11 their voices heard to deal with this considerable 12 obstacle to the survival of the CBC. 13 572 Thank you very much. 14 --- Applause / Applaudissements 15 573 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 16 Thank you. 17 1600 18 574 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Eric 19 Silva and Ms Betty Andric to make their presentation. 20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 21 575 MS ANDRIC: Thank you very much. 22 576 My name is Elizabeth or Betty Andric, 23 as you said. I am here to speak on behalf of the 24 P.E.I. Association for Newcomers to Canada. 25 577 Speaking of names, I must tell you StenoTran 112 1 that the CBC is very good in pronouncing the names. 2 There were some complaints before about the French 3 pronunciation of some things, but Americans tend to 4 make all the international names sound English. When I 5 hear "Michelangelo" my hair goes like this. It is 6 "Michelangelo". He was Italian. Anyway, CBC is doing 7 pretty well in that. 8 578 This is especially important for us. 9 We are newcomers to Canada and coming from Europe where 10 this diversity is even greater, this is of great 11 importance, I can tell you that. 12 579 CBC local programming is extremely 13 important to our organization, the Association for 14 Newcomers to Canada, to all the individuals who are 15 working there and to newcomers as well. 16 580 The P.E.I. Association for Newcomers 17 helps newcomers to integrate by providing services in 18 partnership with the community. The only way we can 19 get to the public, except for the personal contact with 20 our clients, is through the local media. 21 581 CBC radio and television were always 22 very helpful for that matter. Whether we wanted to get 23 profiled and tell the audience about our activities or 24 they were looking for an interesting story about a 25 newcomer or about what was happening in the countries StenoTran 113 1 where new Islanders came from. 2 582 Shows like "Island Morning" are very 3 useful for us. We want to hear our local news, weather 4 and about local events and schedules. We like to hear 5 stories about interesting Islanders, employment 6 opportunities, cultural events. 7 583 We pass this information to our 8 clients and that way help them to integrate into the 9 community sooner. 10 584 There is another aspect, besides 11 being the local source of information, CBC Prince 12 Edward Island is a part of the national television. I 13 think this is very important and that way it's an 14 important link for our province with the rest of 15 Canada. 16 585 Any local story can end up being 17 broadcast nationally, which would happen very rarely or 18 never if we didn't have that link. 19 586 Also, we are very connected as a very 20 small and isolated province to the rest of Canada and 21 what is happening there. The CBC provides the 22 connection to multiculturalism and the diversity of 23 Canadian experience. 24 587 The CBC also brings us international 25 news. There was some criticism before from some of the StenoTran 114 1 speakers, but I still think that the CBC is better than 2 most of the American TV stations and radio stations on 3 that matter. 4 588 Somebody mentioned news about car 5 accidents. Like, this doesn't mean too much to me, if 6 there was a car accident in Boston or something like 7 that. 8 589 Why else is the CBC important to 9 newcomers? As you might have noticed, I am a newcomer 10 myself. I have been on P.E.I. only for two and a half 11 years now. I don't have this deeply rooted personal 12 connection with CBC, but I can very well understand why 13 it is important to support this matter. 14 590 I come from Croatia, a country that 15 was recently torn by the war, unfortunately. There we 16 have learned about the importance of information in a 17 very, very drastic way. I will tell you a little 18 story. My family and I had some very difficult moments 19 in the war and very scary moments. I will tell you 20 which one was the scariest. 21 591 It happened that they bombed the 22 Croatian National Radio and TV tower and our local 23 radio in the same day and we didn't have any 24 information for the following few days. We just didn't 25 have any idea of what was going on. The only news we StenoTran 115 1 could hear at that time was from an improvised radio 2 station established the extremists that were shooting 3 at us at the time. You cannot imagine how scary it is 4 to be isolated, hearing all these grenades falling 5 around and not knowing what was going on. 6 592 We didn't know what to do, whether we 7 were supposed to sit and wait or run away and how long 8 this would last, how far were our attackers from us and 9 will they soon knock at our doors. 10 593 Luckily, all our good Slovenian 11 neighbours lent one of their TV towers to Croatian TV 12 to use and in a couple of days we were able to hear the 13 news. It was very poor quality sound and picture, but 14 I can't tell you how happy we were when we finally 15 heard our news again. This example shows us how 16 important the media and the information is to people. 17 594 The government cutbacks that are 18 causing this situation with the CBC are very much like 19 a bombing. They are just not that drastic and which 20 makes it even more difficult to fight back because it 21 is not so obvious in some ways because if you have a 22 bombed TV tower you know what you have to do, but with 23 this it is much more detailed and sophisticated matter. 24 595 There is another thing I should 25 mention here, the monopoly media is the worst thing StenoTran 116 1 that can happen to a community. And it is very 2 important that we don't let a small number of corporate 3 owners to filter the information we are getting. 4 People have to have a choice. 5 596 I can give you another drastic 6 example which is very fresh. For the second time now, 7 the government in Serbia shut down all the independent 8 media and the only information people are getting is 9 coming from the government controlled radio, TV and 10 newspaper. I can tell you that people in Belgrade know 11 less about the situation in Kosovo than we do here. 12 597 And I would also like to say how 13 important it is to have a public source of information, 14 as opposed to private stations. We believe the CBC has 15 a different mandate from other private TV and radio 16 stations by bringing us stories that are not in the 17 program for the pure reason of making money with 18 commercials and everything, but to provide us with 19 information of educational, moral and other similar 20 values and to make us aware of important issues on 21 Prince Edward Island, in Canada and the rest of the 22 world. 23 598 I would like to thank you for giving 24 me and the P.E.I. Association for Newcomers to Canada 25 this opportunity to express our thoughts and feelings StenoTran 117 1 about the CBC. I sincerely hope that our effort will 2 help the CBC to stay a part of our community and 3 continue providing us with all the valuable 4 programming. 5 599 Now, I would like to pass the 6 microphone to my fellow newcomer. He is actually not a 7 newcomer any more. He has been here for 12 years and 8 he can tell you his thoughts. 9 600 MR. SILVA: My name is Eric Silva. I 10 am originally from Nicaragua. I have been living in 11 P.E.I. for the past 12 years. I am a direct supporter 12 of the CBC because I find when I have an idea that is 13 important to us because communication and information, 14 this is the question and at the same time, it is 15 important because it is part of our culture and our 16 heritage. 17 601 It is important to support the CBC 18 because of the programming that they have. In my 19 background, as I say, in my background I am Latin 20 American and we have the idea that it is important for 21 us to maintain and to grow and to enrich our culture. 22 As I mentioned, what we are doing here is catching the 23 good part of the Canadian culture, but at the same time 24 too I would like to preserve my background, my culture 25 too, and mix both together. StenoTran 118 1 602 How can we do that if we would like 2 to preserve our culture? We would like to educate our 3 children with the mix of both cultures -- the mix of 4 the cultures that has the goodness in there. 5 603 The media is educational and for that 6 we feel as immigrants that it is important to preserve 7 and to grow and to enrich its programming. As an 8 educated person I love to listen to classical music, 9 but I am coming from Latin America and I would also to 10 preserve my cultural heritage and to pass on those 11 feelings to the future generations of my children. I 12 feel it is important and that is why as an immigrant we 13 support and we stand with the CBC. 14 604 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir, but you 15 have reached the 10-minute mark. So, if you wish to 16 conclude your remarks by -- I don't want to stop you 17 right there, but if you could very, very shortly 18 conclude your remarks it would be most appreciated. 19 Thank you. 20 605 MR. SILVA: As I say, everybody has 21 remarked on so many different issues and subject to 22 that I would like to support them too. Thank you very 23 much. 24 --- Applause / Applaudissements 25 606 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: StenoTran 119 1 Thank you. 2 1610 3 607 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Robert 4 Boyer to make his presentation. 5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 6 608 MR. BOYER: Thank you very much. 7 609 The significance of this building was 8 brought up earlier, but I think I wanted to say again, 9 as well as -- I mean, it is a communication edifice in 10 itself. This building communicates the national dream. 11 It communicates Canadians to Canadians. 12 610 A few metres away the nation was 13 born, in a way. Obviously, we all know about 14 Confederation and that took place a few metres from 15 this building. 16 611 One of the gentlemen there went on to 17 build the national railroad, which was another form of 18 communication. It was a way of getting messages back 19 and forth in a quicker manner. It connected people 20 from one end of this continent to another in so many 21 ways. 22 612 When CBC came along it did the same 23 via the radio. I think that's a remarkable achievement 24 and I think it is one that we all share as being vital. 25 Television the same way, but not quite the same way. StenoTran 120 1 613 The CBC will prevail and it will rise 2 above the current crisis, as it has in the past. It 3 must -- the CBC is a national treasure. My great aunt 4 was participating in one of these forums in the 1940s 5 and I think she took another whack at it during the 6 Diefenbaker period, in 1957 or thereabouts. 7 614 So, it is going to prevail. 8 Canadians will insist that it prevails and governments 9 come and governments go, but with the assistance of the 10 CRTC and its mandate, public radio and public 11 information, public broadcasting I know will prevail. 12 615 Public radio and television is vital 13 to our national unity, as well as a primary cultural 14 vehicle for Canadians. My comments today are primarily 15 views on CBC Radio One, Two and really the 16 international service, as this other gentleman 17 mentioned. 18 616 As radio has been really the daily 19 component of my source of entertainment, news, local 20 and international for over 25 years, wherever I am in 21 this country the CBC connects me to my neighbours and 22 to my strangers. I don't know anybody across the 23 country by name often, but you begin to know them after 24 a while, due to our ability to hear their stories and 25 to hear their news. StenoTran 121 1 617 Issues are brought to us from across 2 the country, music, art, science, et cetera. In total, 3 everything that counts comes across through the radio 4 wave really and I think that is so vital to us. Public 5 broadcasting keeps the public entertained and informed. 6 CBC is really vital to all of us and is really not a 7 drain on the national purse, as some would have us 8 believe. 9 618 I know your mandate is not to talk 10 about money, but it truly isn't a huge sum. 11 619 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We can talk 12 about it. We just don't have any to give away, that's 13 the difference, but we are quite happy to hear your 14 views. 15 620 MR. BOYER: Well, actually, if you 16 hear the amount that we pay per day, or what I did hear 17 once before, it is very minimal. I heard once the CBC 18 cost each Canadian seven cents a day. That's somewhat 19 out of date, I imagine, but not by too much. 20 621 Whatever the figure is, it's a 21 bargain. And the cutting of about a third of the CBC 22 budget recently is nothing more than really a national 23 disgrace, not to mention the critical jobs that create 24 this wonderful public broadcasting system, that's also 25 disheartening at every level, the local, the regional StenoTran 122 1 and the national. All three of those components are 2 very critical. None can be of any value without the 3 other. If you don't have the local, you don't have the 4 regional, you don't have the national and it works in 5 reverse, frankly, very simply. 6 622 There have been serious flaws in 7 judgment, firstly, I think by the federal government, 8 and, subsequently, by the board of directors and 9 probably senior management in this whole issue. 10 Directives from these sources I think has seriously 11 eroded the ability of the CBC to function in the 12 national interest and to deliver its mandate to 13 Canadians. 14 623 I think this is certainly an area 15 where the CRTC needs to re-evaluate how, who and 16 where -- how the directors are brought forward, how the 17 management teams are put together at senior level. 18 624 It is really critical I think in 19 public broadcasting and in public television, but more 20 so broadcasting, that people who know how the 21 creativity works and how it comes together really sit 22 closer to the top in terms of how to make decisions 23 that come down the line. 24 625 I can't tell you the number of cases 25 I have known of people working in the CBC at various StenoTran 123 1 levels off and on, who know that the people above have 2 virtually no understanding of what it is they are 3 producing and how valuable it is to the nation. So, I 4 think that's important. 5 626 They really have to know what creates 6 the magic, I think, and then somewhere that has not 7 been happening. We have lost that a little bit prior 8 to the things that have happened. 9 627 I also think that we were enjoying 10 this before a kind of forced, I guess I would say 11 private business view that has become the order of the 12 day at CBC. Senior management and directors have 13 failed Canadians by not demanding restoration of 14 funding cuts. Instead there seems to be an attitude of 15 take the best offer, make do with it, to change the 16 mandate of public service to that of a servant of the 17 bottom line viewpoint, and I don't really think that's 18 going to work in public broadcasting or in the public 19 sphere. 20 628 I think the federal government 21 recently promised something called sustainable funding. 22 Well, after removing $400 million or more from the 23 budget, as well as staff positions that were very 24 valuable, how can something be sustained if it is 25 mortally wounded? I mean it just doesn't make sense. StenoTran 124 1 I think that's a bit of bafflegab actually and not very 2 valuable. 3 629 The CRTC, I think, has a role to 4 assist Canadians to restoring the values of public 5 broadcasting. I think that is a role you should have 6 and I am sure you do. I think with what has been said 7 today you need to get at it. 8 630 Funding for public radio must be 9 restored and in the amounts necessary for public radio 10 and TV to survive and to serve public interest across 11 Canada and the territories. We now have a new 12 territory. I don't even know how to spell it yet. I 13 hope in time we begin to learn more about it. 14 631 It is interesting the way they formed 15 their government recently and it wasn't along party 16 lines. I kind of like that. 17 632 And without such restrictive strings 18 attached, that creative and quality programming is 19 compromised as is seemingly the case I think at the 20 moment. 21 633 I guess a few comments on CBC-TV 22 might be in order. I think the directions in new 23 programming are moving, generally, in a fairly good 24 direction and favourably. However, it is becoming 25 impossible to watch it or enjoy it because of StenoTran 125 1 commercials and the extent of them and the frequency, 2 and the banality of them, frankly. 3 634 So, I have stopped watching almost 4 completely the television portion of CBC, which I 5 regret often, but I really can't seem to do it any more 6 unless I have my hand on the mute button and that 7 becomes about the only way I will get through it with 8 the commercial interruptions. 9 635 I heard senior management comment 10 during the "Cross Country Check-up" program recently 11 that commercials have been increased to raise revenues 12 from $150 million to $300 million. It would seem to 13 me, and this may be an issue in the whole situation 14 with commercials and public funding -- it would seem to 15 me that there is a significant overhead in production 16 and management costs to creating the commercial, that 17 direct public funding would really in a sense eliminate 18 I think in some way. 19 636 There is a whole series of issues 20 that need to be addressed there at that level in terms 21 of what really does cost the most money and where can 22 that money be used better in order to create the 23 programming that we I think are beginning to get in 24 television. 25 637 The issues of branding consumerism StenoTran 126 1 and all the rest of it, I don't think that's a role for 2 public television or broadcasting. I think it is 3 necessary to reduce that considerably, and so I think 4 that might be a way of doing it. 5 638 CBC radio. Well, I think it is 6 obvious I am a believer in this public broadcasting 7 system and format, and the Commission has asked us to 8 address some suggested questions for the forum. While 9 these questions may seem legitimate, and they certainly 10 are to some degree, but I think they are already being 11 answered just by the discussions and by our comments, 12 so I won't answer to them directly one by one. I guess 13 I would say I think they are being answered, generally, 14 and I think very well on the whole. 15 639 Maybe by naming some radio programs 16 that are part of my life and I think that answers maybe 17 more directly these questions, and I will just take a 18 moment and read a list of them. I think it is 19 important to put on the record the programs that make 20 up radio that are critical. 21 640 "Ideas", "Saturday Afternoon at the 22 Opera", "Sound Advice", "On Stage", "Sunday Showcase", 23 "This Morning", "Radio Noon", "Island Morning", "Take 24 Five", "Radio Two and Performance", "Choral Concert", 25 "Symphony Hall", "Two New Hours", "CBC Radio StenoTran 127 1 Overnight" -- that is very, very critical and I think 2 that has been one of the best things that has ever 3 happened. 4 641 We now know as Canadians that public 5 broadcasting isn't just a Canadian venture. It is 6 worldwide and some very significant stations in the 7 world are portraying that service beautifully. We 8 should really understand the value of it. Maybe those 9 systems have answered some of the questions that you 10 need to answer for your recommendations. They may have 11 those already down pat. 12 642 I certainly think Radio Finland might 13 and a couple of others, The Netherlands, the BBC, et 14 cetera. 15 643 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir. You 16 have reached the 10-minute mark. 17 644 MR. BOYER: Thank you. 18 645 I will close very quickly by saying 19 that the CBC Symphony Orchestra in Vancouver is a very 20 vital link musically across the country. Do you know, 21 that's the only one left in North America. That's it. 22 The only public radio symphony orchestra left, so 23 that's very important. 24 646 One suggestion I would like to make 25 is that the CBC reinstate the radio guide again in its StenoTran 128 1 old format. It doesn't work coming through Saturday 2 night. It's rather taken apart. It doesn't give you 3 the chance to see it, view it, review it, so if you are 4 travelling or if you want to plan your listening 5 habits, this was an extraordinary document. I think 6 one man did it. He retired. They said they couldn't 7 afford to put it together any more. 8 647 Well, I think they are spending a 9 great deal more money on 1-800 numbers where you get 10 nowhere and all the rest of it. So, I think this 11 document had better come back into fore and I think it 12 will really make a difference. 13 648 In conclusion, I guess I would like 14 to thank the employees who make up the CBC and public 15 broadcasting, the writers, announcers, research people, 16 host, technical people, musicians and everyone. You 17 are really appreciated. 18 649 I think here on the Island, "Island 19 Morning" is one of the best host shows for 20 communication of issues. Karen Mair and Wayne Collins 21 do a phenomenal job. I thank you. 22 650 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 23 Thank you. 24 --- Applause / Applaudissements 25 1625 StenoTran 129 1 651 M. STEWART: Je voudrais inviter 2 maintenant M. Benoît Henri à faire sa présentation. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 652 M. HENRI: Bonjour. 5 653 Mon voisin de table et quelqu'un 6 d'autre avant lui a commencé par parler de ce que 7 pouvait symboliser le Centre des Arts de la 8 Confédération. Moi, je commencerais par dire que sa 9 première et sa plus grande qualité c'est d'être là, 10 d'exister, qu'on puisse y entrer, y pénétrer. 11 654 Cette image va d'abord me permettre 12 de souligner une initiative qui est heureuse à 13 Radio-Canada, celle d'avoir installé un centre de 14 production radiophonique ici à Charlottetown pour 15 desservir la communauté acadienne francophone de 16 l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard. Ce centre de production est 17 là depuis maintenant deux ans et cette décision a été 18 une décision qui a été très certainement bénéfique pour 19 la communauté acadienne et francophone. 20 655 J'ai l'impression et je parle... en 21 fait, j'aimerais revenir un peu en arrière et me 22 présenter: Benoît Henri. Je suis Directeur-général de 23 la Fédération culturelle de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard, 24 qui est un organisme qui regroupe treize organisations 25 membres, dont des comités culturels régionaux, un StenoTran 130 1 musée, le seul journal francophone à 2 l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard, "La Voix acadienne". Le 3 Centre des Arts de la Confédération est également un 4 membre de la Fédération culturelle. 5 656 Donc, je crois que ce centre de 6 production est très important pour la communauté ici à 7 l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard. C'était la première chose que 8 je voulais souligner dans ce qui m'apparaît être 9 important et positif dans le rôle que peut jouer 10 Radio-Canada ici à l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard. 11 657 La deuxième chose que je veux 12 soulever qui est, à mon sens, aussi une réussite et 13 vers laquelle Radio-Canada doit continuer à mettre des 14 efforts c'est précisément sa venue sur l'internet, son 15 site Web, qui est un site intéressant. Par contre, ce 16 qu'il faut dire c'est que j'attendais avec impatience 17 la venue de la version Atlantique du site Web parce 18 que, bon, je vous parlais du centre de production... ce 19 sont les trois seules et uniques heures de production 20 qui sont faites ici à l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard. 21 658 Pour le reste, bien, il y a une 22 programmation Atlantique. Dans cette programmation 23 Atlantique, il y a notamment le "Ce soir", par exemple, 24 les nouvelles. Moi je ne peux pas les prendre les 25 nouvelles à 6 h parce que j'ai deux jeunes enfants et StenoTran 131 1 puis avec deux jeunes enfants de cinq ans et d'un an et 2 demi, bien à 6 h, il y a d'autre chose à faire. Donc, 3 de pouvoir visionner le "Ce soir" sur l'internet, pour 4 moi, c'est une chose intéressante et les efforts 5 doivent être poursuivis. 6 659 Par contre, en ce qui concerne la 7 présentation des nouvelles elles-mêmes, on peut 8 constater que le site de Radio-Canada est très en 9 retard. Des fois, on a des nouvelles qui sont vieilles 10 de 48 heures et puis parfois même davantage. Donc, la 11 mise à jour semble faire défaut. 12 660 Ceci étant dit, ça c'est des choses 13 qui m'apparaissent positifs. Radio-Canada, ceci étant 14 dit également, vous devez renouveler, bien sûr, et vous 15 allez le faire, c'est entendu, la licence de 16 Radio-Canada. Ceci étant dit, il y a une difficulté et 17 puis la difficulté vous l'avez certainement déjà 18 entendu quand vous étiez à Moncton. 19 661 La difficulté ici elle est double: 20 être en périphérie d'une centre qui lui-même est en 21 périphérie d'un autre centre, c'est-à-dire nous sommes 22 en périphérie à l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard de Moncton qui, 23 lui-même est en périphérie de Montréal, bon, implique 24 une dynamique qui parfois fait en sorte que... bien en 25 fait qui fait en sorte qu'on se voit peu, on s'entend StenoTran 132 1 peu dans toute le reste de la programmation. 2 662 Bien sûr, Radio-Canada vient quand on 3 les invite. On les invite à venir enregistrer le Gala 4 de la Chanson. Ils le font et on est très heureux de 5 ça. On les a invité dernièrement à faire une 6 présentation de l'émission "Retour à la Maison", 7 "Déclic!". Ils sont venus au cours de l'hiver. C'est 8 tant mieux mais c'est des petites périodes. Le temps 9 qui est consacré ne reflète plus... j'entendais des 10 artistes qui disaient combien ils étaient heureux... 11 combien Radio-Canada leur avait permis d'avoir une 12 carrière. J'aimerais que des artistes acadiens de 13 l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard puissent dire la même chose. 14 On ne les entend pas suffisamment sur les ondes de 15 Radio-Canada. 16 663 Ensuite, en ce qui concerne le rôle 17 de télédiffuseur national, on veut être davantage vu et 18 entendu, c'est clair, mais pas seulement au niveau des 19 informations, même au niveau de la variété. Je pense, 20 au cours des dernières années, une des émissions qui a 21 sans doute remporté beaucoup de succès c'est "À l'ombre 22 de l'épervier". 23 664 Qu'est-ce que c'était "À l'ombre de 24 l'épervier"? C'est des pêcheurs gaspésiens qui, par 25 ailleurs, partageaient à peu près la même réalité que StenoTran 133 1 les pêcheurs de la péninsule acadienne. Après avoir vu 2 le succès qu'a remporté une série comme celle-là, on ne 3 peut quand même pas nous dire que, par exemple, le 4 public québécois ne peut pas être intéressé par quelque 5 chose qui ne le concerne... ou le public montréalais ne 6 peut pas être intéressé par quelque chose qui vient de 7 l'extérieur. Ces gens-là, ces Gaspésiens, parlaient 8 avec un accent qui se compare à la limite avec celui 9 des Acadiens. 10 665 Bref, Radio-Canada doit rester mais 11 il y a encore un effort certainement à fournir, non 12 seulement au niveau de l'information mais aussi au 13 niveau de l'ensemble de la programmation pour que les 14 communautés à travers le Canada puissent davantage s'y 15 voir, s'y entendre et se sentir représentées. 16 666 Voilà. Merci. 17 667 LA PRÉSIDENTE DU CONSEIL: Merci, 18 Monsieur Henri. 19 668 Ça ressemble en effet à des 20 commentaires qu'on a entendu à Moncton hier. Merci 21 beaucoup. 22 1630 23 669 MR. STEWART: I would now like to 24 invite Mr. Terry MacCabe to make his presentation. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 134 1 670 MR. MacCABE: Let me begin today just 2 by saying that I am not the most intelligent person in 3 the world, and I think I continue to speak most of you 4 will probably begin to see what I am saying and maybe 5 agree with me. 6 671 I want to thank you for the 7 opportunity to be here today. My name is Terry 8 MacCabe. I am the senior minister at Central Street 9 Christian Church in Summerside. I am here as a 10 minister today. I am here as a husband today. I am 11 here as a father today. I am here as a Christian 12 today. To bring to life some concerns that I have as 13 those different persons as I come here today to address 14 the CRTC hearing and I thank you again for that 15 opportunity. 16 672 Let me start by saying I don't like 17 this country: I love it. I don't like the maritimes. 18 I don't like P.E.I. I love P.E.I. It's part of who I 19 am, and because of that I don't just like the CBC. I 20 love it. It is one of the greatest things that this 21 country has going for it. It's hard to preach when you 22 are sitting down, isn't it. 23 --- Laughter / Rires 24 673 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You are 25 managing it though. You are going the distance. StenoTran 135 1 674 MR. MacCABE: Yeah. I know you 2 didn't come to hear a sermon and I won't give one, but 3 it may sound like that and for that I apologize. 4 675 At the church I minister at we often 5 find ourselves discussing CBC programming. Often it is 6 in relation to CBC television. It causes some church 7 members a great deal of concern to think that their 8 money is contributing to the CBC programming budget, 9 particularly those who have children are concerned with 10 what is being presented on CBC. And let me say that 11 for me that is a big concern because I hear the CBC 12 announcer so often saying, "We are concerned about the 13 fact that our young people don't seem to be listening 14 to CBC." 15 676 Well, I am here today, as all those 16 things I already mentioned, but I think also as a young 17 person. I am all of 25-years old and as I look around 18 the room I realize that I am one of the youngest people 19 here. 20 677 My friends don't just dislike the 21 CBC. They disdain the CBC. They don't have any 22 understanding of why I like it and I tease them for 23 listening to the local commercial radio shows and they 24 often tease me for listening to the CBC. It concerns 25 me also that there is talk of starting a Radio Three StenoTran 136 1 for young people. Please, don't do that. Make them 2 come to us. They will come eventually because CBC is 3 so great they will come eventually. 4 678 Last night at a church function, 5 getting back to my notes, I mentioned that I would be 6 here today to do this presentation and here are just a 7 few of the comments that were raised by other people at 8 the church. One person said, "CBC is the foulest 9 channel on the television." Out of all the channels he 10 has in his gamut of cable -- in my house we get one 11 channel, it's the CBC, so it's a good thing I love it, 12 he said it's the foulest. That comment was made by a 13 man in his early forties, the father of two small 14 children. 15 679 Another man said, "CBC has so much 16 great programming, it's unfortunate that they degrade 17 it with all the other stuff." That was made by a man 18 in his early sixties. 19 680 Another man said this, "If they are 20 going to produce that kind of crap, we need to find a 21 way to stop contributing our tax dollars to it." 22 681 Why are these people so upset? What 23 are they so concerned about? One example that I would 24 bring to mind is an animated character on CBC 25 television from 4:00 to 6:00 named Coquette Fréchette. StenoTran 137 1 Coquette regularly uses profanity and has often made 2 sexual comments that many adults would not repeat in 3 public. 4 682 One occasion I remember, Coquette 5 encouraging children who were being confronted by their 6 teacher at school for not having done their homework to 7 ask the teacher if he's doing it with the janitorial 8 staff. 9 683 Kids aren't stupid. They know that 10 "doing it" means having sexual intercourse. I feel and 11 we feel that there is a serious lack of respect in 12 Canada in the Canadian classroom in students for the 13 teachers. And our question is: Why on earth is the 14 CBC contributing to that and encouraging our children, 15 our young people who that time slot is directed to, why 16 is the CBC encouraging these young people to consider 17 their teachers, those who they should have respect for 18 in such a degrading manner. 19 684 As a result of this type of afternoon 20 programming, most people with small children that I 21 know say they can't allow their children to watch CBC 22 from 4:00 to 6:00. 23 685 Another concern is the content of the 24 adult programming aired in some prime-time slots. One 25 episode of "On the Arts" that I watched, which is StenoTran 138 1 hosted by Lori Brown, one of the subjects of her 2 interviews was the subject of female erotica. During 3 an interview with a guest in which the topic of 4 discussion was erotic literature written by women, 5 several pornographic pictures were displayed. This 6 show airs from 7:00 to 7:30 on Tuesday, a time in which 7 many children are still up watching TV. 8 686 In my opinion, this is a completely 9 inappropriate show for the CBC to run and in an 10 unquestionably inappropriate time slot. 11 687 Another concern that many Christians 12 have is what is perceived at least as a promotion of 13 the homosexual lifestyle that CBC seems to have 14 adopted. For years the CBC aired "Kids in the Hall" 15 from 9:00 to 9:30 on Thursday. Again, a time of which 16 many young teenagers are still up and watching TV. 17 These young teens are just developing sexually and 18 beginning to understand sexuality and "Kids in the 19 Hall" never, or at least very seldom had an episode 20 that did not include a skit that involved 21 homosexuality. 22 688 Then there was the CBC comedy special 23 called "In Through the Out Door" which focused solely 24 on homosexuality. There is still a large portion of 25 people in this country who believe that homosexual StenoTran 139 1 behaviour is wrong. And don't get me wrong, I am not a 2 homophobe. I don't hate homosexuals, okay. I have 3 several friends who are homosexual, more than I could 4 count on both hands, but at the same time we don't want 5 that lifestyle promoted to our young children. There 6 are still a lot of us out there who would agree with 7 that. 8 689 A final concern that is often raised 9 in my church circle is one that you probably never 10 considered and that is the blatant misuse of the name 11 of our God in both CBC-TV and radio. My wife and I 12 love the show "Black Harbour", but we had to decide to 13 stop watching it because of the incessant use of the 14 words "Jesus Christ". You need to understand that the 15 name Jesus Christ is the most precious name in the 16 world to a Christian and to hear it defiled over and 17 over again is incredibly disheartening. 18 690 We would all think it very strange if 19 someone used the term "Allah", the Muslim name for God, 20 over and over again as a curse. It would seem 21 ridiculous to us. We simply wouldn't do that to our 22 Muslim friends. Allah is a holy name to them, not to 23 be misused. Well, that is exactly what the words 24 "Jesus Christ" and "God" are to the Christians. 25 691 Quite often CBC radio plays a song StenoTran 140 1 called "My God, Why Didn't Grandma Teach Me Gaelic" by 2 Nancy White. Well, I must tell you I don't know of 3 another song in the world that offends me as much as 4 that one. It's utterly profane. When it comes on, the 5 radio goes off and I don't turn it on again for a long 6 time. 7 692 The CBC is turning millions of 8 Christians off the CBC with such programming. Quite 9 often, when I bring up these matters with people, the 10 response is "If you don't like it, just turn it off" 11 and quite often we do. 12 693 My question today: Is that the type 13 of programming that we want to put on our public 14 broadcaster? Do we want to promote and develop shows 15 that people who have strong moral values can't watch? 16 Thank you. 17 --- Applause / Applaudissements 18 694 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 19 Thank you, sir. 20 1638 21 695 MR. STEWART: I would now like to 22 invite Mr. Tony Reddin to make his presentation. 23 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 24 696 MR. REDDIN: Thanks. I don't have 25 anything written. I just want to take the chance to StenoTran 141 1 speak in support of the CBC and I appreciate the chance 2 to do so. 3 697 I would start by saying, though, that 4 I think it would be easy to be cynical of this process, 5 as with so many processes that we have seen lately it 6 might appear to be just a chance for people to blow off 7 steam and I sure hope that's not the situation. 8 698 I, as a long-time volunteer in Oxfam, 9 an international developmental organization, and in the 10 Environmental Coalition and other environmental groups, 11 have seen the real strong need for good media, both to 12 support community organizations in their publicity and 13 information, and to promote critical thinking in 14 general and very much in terms of giving us good 15 investigative journalism to cover issues that might not 16 otherwise get covered. I guess I bring that up because 17 I have seen it seems to me the quality of journalism 18 increase in the last few years. Naturally, we forecast 19 that when we look at the corporate media becoming more 20 concentrated. 21 699 But I would hope that the CBC would 22 take the direction of increasing that type of 23 journalism and that to me is really the biggest role 24 for the CBC. As Kip Smith said so well, the other 25 media follow CBC and when the CBC does a good job they StenoTran 142 1 are under pressure to meet that. 2 700 I think the service cannot do 3 anything better than expand. I think to have a radio 4 station geared to youth is a terrific idea. Indeed, it 5 seems to me there is no reason not to have other 6 expansion of radio. It's a relatively cheap media and 7 it would be nice to have more choice of good radio, 8 both in terms of culture and music and again journalism 9 and information. 10 701 On the local level, the importance is 11 critical for local organizations and just for the 12 culture of the local area of P.E.I. in particular, the 13 maritimes. 14 702 On a national level, I think it again 15 comes back to good journalism. Investigative 16 journalism that gives people real information on the 17 issues that are so important to having good government 18 and a good critical look at both government and other 19 institutions. 20 703 Then, someone else mentioned the 21 international perspective that we see so little of and 22 that CBC could do so much more of telling us what is 23 done in other countries with all these various issues. 24 It is something that hardly ever comes up, it seems to 25 me. The late-night programs, of course, do give us a StenoTran 143 1 taste of that, but it is nothing compared to what good 2 journalism could do. 3 704 And I guess the other thing I did 4 want to mention is that there are, of course, 5 alternative media, magazines especially, that do a 6 great job given their limited resources of covering 7 issues and giving us a good, critical viewpoint of many 8 issues. So there is no question that the issues are 9 there and CBC has a big role to fill there. So, I hope 10 you can expand and grow and prosper. 11 705 Thank you. 12 --- Applause / Applaudissements 13 706 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 14 Thank you. 15 1645 16 707 MR. STEWART: I now would like to 17 invite Mr. Angus Orford to speak. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 708 MR. ORFORD: Thank you very much for 20 the opportunity to address the CRTC today. 21 709 Most of my comments, and I only have 22 a half a dozen points to make, are directed at the 23 local station because that's what I am most familiar 24 with. 25 710 The CBC programming represents the StenoTran 144 1 only option for areas such as the Island. News and 2 cultural programming is what the CBC primarily 3 represents for Prince Edward Island and what I believe 4 the CBC is apparently very good at. 5 711 The effectiveness of this station is 6 in delivering local, regional and national news I 7 believe could be used as a model for what the CBC 8 should become. 9 712 As the bulk of the funding for the 10 CBC comes from the tax dollar, I believe, therefore, it 11 does not have to be a slave to ratings. I believe this 12 is a real opportunity in delivering the alternative 13 programming with a focus on Canadian culture. 14 713 An emphasis, I believe, should be 15 placed on programming that helps unify the country and 16 there have been a number of people that have made a 17 comment to that effect, and promote the best and the 18 highest possible ideals. I have in brackets here "The 19 Simpsons" don't count. 20 714 As mentioned by a number of the 21 presenters, Canada does run a risk of being absorbed 22 into the American culture. I don't think there are too 23 many people that don't believe that there is definitely 24 a need for public broadcasting to maintain that 25 distinction. StenoTran 145 1 715 I believe nationally the CBC should 2 avoid or try to minimize duplication of programming 3 that is best delivered by the private sector. And to 4 waste a lot of energy and tax dollars in head-to-head 5 competition with the private sector just seems somewhat 6 asinine. 7 716 A number of the comments from people 8 around the table was it certainly fulfils a role and a 9 market that definitely has to be fulfilled, but why 10 duplicate what somebody else is already doing, a 11 private-sector company that is providing tax revenues. 12 717 With respect to an article in which I 13 saw the CBC being referred to as the TBC, the Toronto 14 Broadcasting Corporation, I just think that -- the 15 thought crossed my mind that there is really no 16 physical or geographical parameters that dictate where 17 the corporate headquarters of the organization should 18 be. 19 718 With respect to the Coast Guard or 20 the Navy, we would hope that they would be out in the 21 water, but with the CBC in a medium that travels at the 22 speed of light, really corporate headquarters could be 23 anywhere in Canada. 24 719 My familiarity with the local station 25 here is that it is very good. It is an exceptional StenoTran 146 1 model of an organization that promotes community 2 involvement. 3 720 I will put on my hat as the incoming 4 Chairman of the Provincial Easter Seals Campaign. I 5 will be taking over after speaker No. 6, he either 6 steps down or gets impeached. I can say that the 7 success of that fundraiser would be quite different if 8 it didn't have the CBC's support, but the organization 9 out here also undertakes a number of things that 10 demonstrates that they are part of the community. They 11 have turkey drives at Christmas and yard sales, 12 cultural events that they take part in, includes story 13 festivals and live poet societies. These are just a 14 few examples as to the local CBC and how it is an 15 integral part of this Island community. 16 721 I find the CBC organization here very 17 approachable and willing to lend a hand. Part of my 18 professional responsibilities at -- I work for the 19 power company here as an engineer, but my 20 responsibilities are also corporate communications. 21 Well, we have a good relationship in being able to 22 communicate with our customers. In particular, our 23 utility has an approval rating that is 85 per cent. 24 Well, not too many people feel warm and fuzzy about 25 their electric utility, but part of it is being able StenoTran 147 1 to get messages out and communicate with customers. 2 722 Locally, the station, radio and TV 3 personalities are often called upon to MC special 4 events. They do so not only because it is the right 5 thing to do, but also because I believe it is community 6 pride. 7 723 CBC on the Island, and P.E.I. covers 8 North Cape to East Point, and I believe contributes to 9 the unity of the small collection of communities that 10 make up Prince Edward Island. Again, I think this 11 local operation could be used as a model to define what 12 possibly the future role of this national organization 13 should be. 14 724 Thank you. 15 --- Applause / Applaudissements 16 725 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Just a 17 really, really quick question because we have no time. 18 Will the local private radio stations not help with the 19 Easter Seals campaign? 20 726 MR. ORFORD: Oh, yes. In fact, with 21 the present circumstances one of the local radio 22 stations may come to help out, but it's something that 23 the CBC-TV, and I am talking TV and radio certainly 24 want to help out with. This may just be a hiatus if it 25 doesn't work out this year. StenoTran 148 1 727 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I am glad to 2 hear that. 3 728 MR. ORFORD: Yes. 4 1650 5 729 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Ling 6 to make his presentation. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 730 MR. LING: Thank you. 9 731 Good afternoon. My name is Nils 10 Ling. I am a playwright, a theatrical producer, a 11 performer, a Festival organization and a writer and a 12 broadcaster who chooses, for all of the right reasons, 13 to make his home here in Prince Edward Island. 14 732 For the past 13 years I have 15 contributed a weekly nationally syndicated column to 16 the CBC radio. I have also been a regular columnist 17 for CBC television, both locally and nationally, and I 18 have worked also within the CBC as well. I am no 19 longer employed by the CBC, but I worked for six years 20 as one of the hosts of the local afternoon program on 21 CBC radio, "Main Street". 22 733 I have always taken my work at CBC 23 seriously, even when it meant poking fun of people and 24 institutions. I grew up in a military family and even 25 though it was peacetime, we never once doubted that my StenoTran 149 1 dad was defending the country. 2 734 I joined an organization that I felt 3 and still feel also has a critical role to play in 4 defending the country because while the Soviets never 5 did launch any missiles and all those drills where we 6 hid under our school desks, as if that was going to do 7 any good, turned out to be a big waste of time. In 8 fact, now this country is under attack and its only 9 line of national defence is a series of transmission 10 towers. Well, okay, we do have a fleet of submarines 11 in the West Edmonton Mall, but still -- 12 735 This spring your organization, the 13 conservator of our national airwaves, is considering 14 the CBC's application for a renewal of its licence. 15 You asked for public input on this question and I am 16 sure over the next little while you are going to get 17 many representations. Among them will be presentations 18 from the CBC itself, reassuring you and the people of 19 Canada that its best and brightest are still doing a 20 wonderful job. 21 736 When I was getting ready for this 22 afternoon I breezed through the Corporation's annual 23 report. I ran across a line in there that made me spit 24 my Coke all over the keyboard, page 18 under "English 25 Radio". In the section about regional reflections, StenoTran 150 1 after noting that English radio came across an extra $6 2 million, the report says: 3 "On Radio One that additional 4 money meant all local and 5 regional time periods were 6 retained and weekday noon and 7 afternoon shows were 8 revitalized." 9 737 Man oh man, revitalized. I guess I 10 use a different thesaurus than these people. I would 11 have said "gutted" because I was there and that's what 12 happened. 13 738 Three years ago "Main Street" here on 14 Prince Edward Island had a staff of four who worked 15 every day to bring Prince Edward Island audiences a 16 show that hit them where they lived. It was a cultural 17 beacon in this community. The show, and its producer, 18 Sheryl MacKay, was given an award of merit from the 19 P.E.I. Museum and Heritage Foundation for its work in 20 promoting the heritage and culture of this place. 21 739 The show earned the undying gratitude 22 of artists and musicians across Atlantic Canada, some 23 of whom will be making presentations to you here on the 24 Island and others who you might hear from. In short, 25 it reflected Prince Edward Islanders to themselves. StenoTran 151 1 740 And you know what? We had an 2 audience too. Our audience was by share larger by far 3 than most other CBC radio afternoon shows across the 4 country, and that audience told us in focus groups and 5 on the street, day after day after day, that they loved 6 and appreciated what we were doing. 7 741 So, of course, the deep thinkers at 8 CBC came to us to find out what we were doing that was 9 so good. Right? Well, not so much. 10 742 In order to save money, and I am 11 going to get back to this money thing in a few minutes, 12 they decided to reduce the show here to a staff of two 13 and have all afternoon shows across the country adopt a 14 news and current affairs profile. Much different than 15 the arts, entertainment and culture profile that they 16 had had originally. 17 743 The shows would feature syndicated 18 items fed out of Toronto, interviews lined up by 19 Toronto according to an agenda that was devised in -- 20 gee, does anybody see a pattern forming here. There 21 would as well, and there is still local stuff, a lot of 22 local items and you have heard from some of the people 23 who do those items, but that's what we have now. 24 744 The people on the show here are 25 extraordinarily talented and it is often painful to StenoTran 152 1 listen to that talent being squandered reading intros 2 about home schooling programs in Windsor, Ontario or 3 apple picking in Kelowna, when you know, as I know from 4 talking to audiences and knowing what our audiences 5 wanted for years, when you know that that stuff has 6 very little relevance to the people of Prince Edward 7 Island and to the faithful and loyal listeners of that 8 show. 9 745 The people on the show would like to 10 do more, but essentially they aren't allowed and even 11 if they were, they can't. There's not enough of them. 12 746 Well, the CBC calls that a response 13 to the fiscal cutbacks. That's why they had the 14 cutback. They reduced the number of people on the 15 show. That's a load of crap. That's like coming home 16 to my wife and telling her, "I don't have enough money 17 for food, but check out the new VCR I bought" because 18 in CBC, as in life, it's all about choices. 19 747 And one of your jobs when you are 20 reviewing their licence application is to insist that 21 this publicly-owned corporation makes choices that are 22 consistent with its mandate and with the needs of its 23 owners who are not, by the way, Perrin Beatty, Alec 24 Frane or even Guylaine Saucier. 25 748 One of the choices CBC has made is to StenoTran 153 1 invest a great deal of money with much more to come in 2 the Internet. It's the way of the future they say. 3 That's where our audience will eventually be. 4 749 In the message from the Chair, 5 Guylaine Saucier says she is heartened by the 6 connection the Internet has made to rural, remote and 7 northern communities and promises that this is only the 8 beginning. 9 750 Well, aside from the sheer goofiness 10 of anyone believing that there are a lot of laptops 11 connected to snowmobiles in the north, I am distressed 12 by this fascination with the Internet by a bloated, 13 slow thinking public corporation that is no more likely 14 to compete well on the Internet than I am to outrun 15 Donovan Bailey. They can't do it and they never will 16 be able to. You have to understand how these people 17 work and think, compared to the rate at which Internet 18 technology and Internet tastes change. They haven't 19 got a prayer. But it's the way of the future. 20 751 Do you know what it's like? It's 21 like this old guy who takes himself a trophy mistress. 22 Oh, she's cute and sexy and his friends at the country 23 club really admire him squiring her around. Of course 24 the younger people laugh behind his back, and meanwhile 25 a loving wife who has suffered long and hard is being StenoTran 154 1 ignored and her friends, who used to count on her to 2 take them places, stop calling after awhile, and the 3 killer is, he is spending her trust fund money. 4 752 I think this body should insist that 5 the CBC takes the millions that it is pouring into the 6 toilet preparing for an audience it does not currently 7 have and may never have in a technology for which it is 8 fundamentally by its nature unsuited and give that 9 money to the local stations and say, "Here. Now 10 revitalize your afternoon shows, except use the 11 dictionary definition of the word." 12 753 Since the time I joined the CBC there 13 has always been this fixation on luring a younger 14 audience to CBC radio. "We need to draw a younger 15 demographic," they say. Again, that's crap. Don't let 16 them say that to you, and they are going to try. 17 754 I am sorry, but I have got teenage 18 kids, and how about that, they are much like I was when 19 I was a teenager. It's God's little way of getting 20 even with us. When I was a teenager I didn't listen to 21 CBC radio and neither will my kids. I don't want them 22 to. I don't want -- I want them to have a normal 23 youth. It's not normal to spend your teenage years 24 worrying about the Charlottetown Accord or the APEC 25 Inquiry or the local fish plant strike. I want them to StenoTran 155 1 listen to music and dance and be brainless. Thank God 2 we have got private radio for that. 3 --- Laughter / Rires 4 755 MR. LING: And private radio exists 5 because of my kids. My kids are what private radio 6 sells to its advertisers. My kids are the product that 7 Majic 93 produces and sells. Well, CBC radio has a 8 very different product. Its product is the programs, 9 thoughtful, provocative, occasionally annoying, 10 sometimes precious or pompous, or pretentious, but 11 these are programs designed for people who have a taste 12 for them and who have already paid for them. 13 756 My kids have never paid one nickel 14 towards the CBC and, if you asked them, they wouldn't. 15 It's only when you get older and you realize the value 16 of something like this. It's an acquired taste and, do 17 you know what, it should be. It's single malt scotch. 18 The kids like lemon gin and, God love them, somebody 19 has to. 20 757 The CBC insists on trying to find 21 ways to mix Smarties in with the Brussels sprouts, 22 making a dish that nobody wants to eat. Because 23 private radio needs to produce audiences, it needs to 24 rely on music that it knows will generate those 25 audiences and American music which is promoted on TV StenoTran 156 1 and in the movies and which is a product of a culture 2 that knows how to sell is going to be the staple of 3 private radio. My kids know more about the Back Street 4 Boys and Brittany Spears and Hit Me Baby One More Time 5 than they know about most Canadian groups. Well, I'm 6 okay with that. 7 758 I grew up with the Beatles and the 8 Stones and the Beach Boys. I am still Canadian. But 9 my national broadcaster doesn't have a single thing to 10 gain by playing artists from the U.S. or anywhere else 11 in the world. There is no convincing reason that 12 anyone can give me why the CBC should not be required 13 to play 100 per cent Canadian music on our national 14 radio service. None. Maybe there was -- 15 759 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir, you 16 have reached the time limit. It would be appreciated 17 if you would conclude. 18 760 MR. LING: If the producers of CBC 19 radio programs can't find a way to play 100 per cent 20 Canadian content, they should be fired and make way for 21 someone who can. 22 761 I just want to say that nobody in the 23 room loves CBC more than me and nobody realizes how 24 important it is to the communities. Locally, here it 25 is vital to this community, but they need to be told StenoTran 157 1 that the job that they were required to do, that they 2 are mandated to do and that was designed for them to do 3 is not the job that they currently invented for 4 themselves, the job, it's loyal listening audience 5 deserves. 6 762 Thank you for your time. 7 --- Applause / Applaudissements 8 763 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You have got 9 to learn to speak your mind, Mr. Ling. 10 1700 11 764 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Betty 12 Howatt to make a presentation. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 765 MS HOWATT: It's not fair that I 15 should have to follow Nils Ling. In fact, about the 16 only way I could make an impact I think would be either 17 to present in rap form or to get up on the table and 18 tap dance. Now, I don't particularly care for rap 19 music and I never could tap dance, even when I was 20 younger and much more physically able. 21 766 Well, whom do I represent today? The 22 words "ordinary" and "grass roots" were so misused, 23 overused. They were callous to the point that we can 24 hardly accept then any more. So, I thought, well, I 25 will look in the dictionary and see if there isn't StenoTran 158 1 something other than grass roots. What does grass 2 roots mean? 3 767 And the first word that was given as 4 a definition, not as a synonym, but as a definition, 5 was "essential". Isn't that wonderful. I am an 6 essential, an essential person and each one of you who 7 has come from the background that I have come from is 8 an essential person when it comes to presentations to 9 anything in this country. We are essential. 10 768 But being here at the tail-end of the 11 afternoon is something akin to sitting through music 12 festival presentations. You know, children of age 7 or 13 8 and they were all playing "In an English Country 14 Garden" or something like that and the adjudicators 15 would be wondering and we would think, well, about 16 their ten thousand, million, brain cells, how many are 17 still awake. And that's almost the same situation 18 here. 19 769 But we must continue because it is 20 only by speaking these essential people that those in 21 power will understand just how important the CBC is to 22 us here. 23 770 Now, I may be speaking in a 24 light-hearted manner, but I am very serious. I am very 25 serious about what I have to say. StenoTran 159 1 771 Gordon Lightfoot's song, "There was a 2 time in this fair land when the railroads did not run." 3 Well, you know, that might have been true for a large 4 part of the country at one time, but it still applies 5 in this province and that wonderful steel rail that 6 tied the country together no longer exists here. 7 772 So, what do we have? We have the 8 radio system. It scares me to think that I have 9 somewhat the same thoughts as Nils has presented to 10 you, but the idea of these people being connected by a 11 radio system from one coast to another coast to a third 12 one is very important. I can listen to radio and hear 13 the opinions of people on the west coast and the voices 14 of the radio announcers are voices of old friends. 15 773 It is very important in this country 16 that we should have that linkage. In some ways -- I 17 don't know whether any of you people remember the old 18 party telephone lines. They had their drawbacks, but 19 it was a good thing in many ways. And the programming 20 that we have here on Prince Edward Island, the local 21 programming reminds me somewhat of that. 22 774 We can rely on local programming to 23 keep us in touch from one end of the province to the 24 other. Now, that may not seem very important in a 25 large city. In fact, I think that's one of the things StenoTran 160 1 that is lacking in a large city is people do not know 2 who their neighbours are. And I don't mean just the 3 person who lives next door. 4 775 CBC has provided and should continue 5 to provide a service of better quality than the private 6 sector does and a greater variety. 7 776 Canada's Food Guide recommends a 8 large variety of foods in order to maintain a healthy 9 physical state. Our mental faculties need a good 10 mixture as well, news, information, education, 11 entertainment. Sometimes it is rather difficult to 12 decide into which category a program should go because 13 it covers so many of these things. 14 777 With a wide-ranging choice in both 15 radio and television we can pick and choose to suit our 16 tastes because we can't expect that we shall have the 17 things that we like all the time. 18 778 For me, one hour of Ben Hepner is 19 much more to be enjoyed than six hours of "Hockey Night 20 in Canada", but yet I know there are people who will 21 enjoy six hours of "Hockey Night in Canada", but I can 22 go and do something else and read. I am in the same 23 position as one of these other persons, that we do not 24 have cable in a rural area and we have not invested in 25 a satellite dish. We have, what my husband calls, two StenoTran 161 1 and a half channels on our television set. So, we pick 2 and choose. 3 779 It's something like a meal I suppose. 4 "The Nature of Things" is a whole meal in itself, as 5 far as I am concerned. It's a bad time to be talking 6 about food, isn't it? 7 780 Last evening I turned on the radio to 8 try to get a news broadcast. Because of the present 9 upset in the situation I am not listening to radio, but 10 I wanted to try to get a little bit of news and I 11 turned it on a few minutes early and got a program, I 12 think it was from somewhere in Ontario, one of these 13 substitutes, fill-ins at the present time and someone 14 was singing. "The sun ain't going to rise any more, 15 the moon ain't going to shine any more, baby." Well, 16 that is not the kind of programming that I want on CBC, 17 but, of course, it must suit someone, so I shall have 18 to continue to pick and choose. 19 781 Regional programming on Saturday and 20 Sunday can be tolerated. I use the word "tolerated". 21 I know there are some who insist that we have got to go 22 back to having local programming on Saturday and 23 Sunday. But to one who understands that on a statutory 24 holiday we just about disappear entirely, I can accept 25 that Saturday and Sunday aren't going to be the things StenoTran 162 1 that I totally want. 2 782 In our business we don't really have 3 statutory holidays. Good Friday and Christmas Day, 4 yes. The rest of the year we are pretty much on call 5 and we have had people coming to our door at three 6 o'clock in the morning and at ten o'clock at night and 7 the holiday means nothing. There are so many times -- 8 we turn on the radio before we get out of bed in the 9 morning and by the programming I can tell that it's a 10 statutory holiday because it is so different. It has 11 very little relationship to what we do here in this 12 province. 13 783 We at present receive six hours of 14 local programming, three of radio in the morning, two 15 in the afternoon and one of television and we will not 16 be content with less. 17 784 Regardless of our small land mass and 18 our population base, we are still a province, God bless 19 us, with a proud heritage, and we wish to be recognized 20 as such and not just as a part of a foggy lump known to 21 Toronto as "down east". 22 785 Much is being made of the potential 23 linkages and here's where I am hearing Nils -- of the 24 potential linkages between television and computers 25 with real audio and video on computer screens. What StenoTran 163 1 should be remembered is that there are many who are not 2 now nor will they ever be able to use such technology 3 because they cannot afford it, and to allocate a large 4 portion, particularly of scarce funds, to such an 5 operation, is like deciding to provide steak or lobster 6 for a limited number as against a good hearty stew for 7 us essentials. 8 786 While asking Parliament to release 9 more funding for CBC, at the same time I would ask the 10 money handlers at the central offices in the 11 Corporation to use some common sense in the way they 12 spend it and several cases in point. I hate to be 13 critical of CBC because I think it is so important to 14 us, but I think we should make the point. 15 787 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, madam, but 16 you have reached your time limit. If you could 17 conclude soon. 18 788 MS HOWATT: Thank you. A paragraph. 19 789 MR. STEWART: Thank you. 20 790 MS HOWATT: Two examples, the 21 Swissair disaster last fall. Toronto sent down 22 reporters to cover that for national radio and for 23 television. It wasn't necessary. There were people in 24 Halifax fully qualified and I am sure as credible 25 across the country as the ones from the west coast are StenoTran 164 1 here. 2 791 The second one I disliked very much 3 was the staged town hall programs, very much 4 choreographed, very stilted. There was no spontaneity 5 from the people who were there and I am sure it must 6 have cost a great deal to provide transportation and 7 accommodation. 8 792 With the criticisms out of the way, I 9 shall conclude by saying I consider the programs of CBC 10 as essential services and hope that they will receive 11 the respect and support they deserve. 12 793 Thank you. 13 --- Applause / Applaudissements 14 1710 15 794 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Andrea 16 Simpson who is replacing Dr. Herb Dickleson to make a 17 presentation. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 795 MS SIMPSON: Good afternoon. 20 796 As mentioned in the introduction, I 21 am here on behalf of a member of the legislature from 22 Prince Edward Island. I would like to open by saying 23 that the CBC must adjust and rededicate itself to the 24 mandate of serving Canadians. It must continue to be 25 an appealing viewing and listening option in this great StenoTran 165 1 country from coast to coast to coast. The CBC must 2 continue to exercise an important role in local and 3 regional programming. 4 797 Unlike in other parts of the country, 5 CBC television produces the most widely supported 6 suppertime news show "Compass" with a viewing audience 7 of close to 80 per cent. This is a true testimony to 8 the importance of this programming here on Prince 9 Edward Island. There is tremendous potential here to 10 expand local programming for television which is Island 11 based. 12 798 Features that distinguish CBC Radio 13 One from the private stations is the attention spoken 14 word programming and the innovative approach to this 15 method. 16 799 Another defining feature is the 17 absence of commercial advertising that we have heard 18 much about today. These two elements render CBC Radio 19 One refreshing to tune into. 20 800 The revolution in communications 21 technology translates to one thing for certain, the 22 number and sources of means by which advertising can be 23 packaged arising exponentially. Cable network channels 24 that strictly advertise are more commonplace. 25 801 The nature of advertising is also StenoTran 166 1 being revolutionized to mimic trends in the American 2 cultural industry for the most part. There is a 3 considerable segment of the Canadian public which is 4 looking for ways to escape the barrage of advertising 5 and consumer-oriented programming that has made its way 6 into communications media, especially television. 7 802 The CBC can continue to distinguish 8 itself from many other media networks by minimizing its 9 reliance on advertising revenues. 10 803 It is clear that given the loss of 11 funding from the federal government in recent years CBC 12 television has had to rely more heavily on its 13 advertising revenues in order to continue to provide 14 the unique blend of made in Canada programming for 15 television. 16 804 While this trend does not compromise 17 the quality and diversity of programming, it must be 18 carefully monitored and balanced with the overarching 19 vision of the CBC, which is to celebrate and encourage 20 the development of Canadian culture in all its 21 diversity. 22 805 A funding threshold must be 23 determined in conjunction with front line and technical 24 workers at the CBC to ensure that more than the core 25 mandate is upheld. What must emerge is an endorsement StenoTran 167 1 of the CBC as a promoter of Canadian culture in the 2 form of federal funding guarantees, as well as more 3 versatile funding and regulatory instruments to uphold 4 the essence of Canadian-made programming in every 5 province and territory in the country. 6 806 If the CBC is expected to draw a 7 larger and larger portion of its revenues from 8 commercial advertising, it is difficult to imagine how 9 it would be able to continue to produce close to 100 10 per cent all-Canadian prime time programming which is 11 more and more diverse. 12 807 The move to partnering with 13 independent production companies can be positive for 14 both the CBC and the film industry in Canada, as is the 15 example in the case of "Emily of New Moon". The CBC 16 can and should assume a role in promoting the growth of 17 this industry and its distinctly Canadian focus. 18 808 One genre of radio and television 19 programming which the CBC fulfils an important function 20 in is public affairs programming. The depth and 21 sensitivity of CBC public affairs programming is tied 22 to the democratic process in Canada. The 90-second 23 clip carried by most private networks is a quick fix 24 which does little to advance awareness and sensitivity 25 about the values and experiences of Canadians in StenoTran 168 1 different parts of the country. 2 809 The longer, more thoughtful analysis 3 offered by the CBC sets it apart from other news and 4 public affairs providers. It is a quality that takes 5 on heightened importance in an increasingly complex 6 world. And with the trend to media corporatization in 7 the private sector, the CBC can and should play a 8 crucial role in ensuring that Canadians continue to 9 have access to alternative opinions and points of view. 10 810 Due to reductions in technical staff 11 and funding at the Charlottetown station, this 12 programming has been virtually discontinued. I speak 13 of provincial affairs programming. 14 811 Each political caucus is now expected 15 to hire its own technical expertise to produce a 16 30-minute tape whose quality is worthy of being aired 17 on the CBC. This new requirement is highly prohibitive 18 to the democratic process on Prince Edward Island. 19 Coming from the smallest caucus office, we only have 20 one member in the legislature, it makes it extremely 21 prohibitive. 22 812 The CBC should continue to play a 23 role and facilitate in communication between elected 24 members of political office and the public they serve 25 by restoring base funding to this important function. StenoTran 169 1 813 A stable and higher level of funding 2 must be restored. Current levels are well below the 3 original federal budget threshold of 1.5 per cent. The 4 restoration of funding to the CBC to its '95 and '96 5 level is necessary to guarantee that the breadth and 6 quality of programming that Canadians have come to 7 cherish is here for the long haul. 8 814 The $88 million allocated in the 1999 9 federal budget to employee departure packages is a 10 practice that must be reversed. If the CBC is to 11 survive as a national producer of cultural programming, 12 it is inconceivable that the continuity and quality of 13 programming not be thwarted by the immense blow to 14 morale dealt by this type of policy. 15 815 Funding levels must also be restored 16 to ensure that the international shortwave service of 17 CBC radio continues to be an important cultural link to 18 the world. This programming enjoys worldwide acclaim 19 and is a tremendous exporter of Canadian culture. We 20 cannot afford to lose it. 21 816 The need for locally produced 22 television programming is more crucial than ever. The 23 need for radio with a cultural sensitivity and public 24 focus is equally pressing in light of the global 25 communications trends. Canadian culture and identity StenoTran 170 1 cannot be overstated. The means to reinvent and uphold 2 the place of the CBC as purveyor of made in Canada 3 radio and television must be secured and rendered more 4 flexible. 5 817 Thank you very much. 6 --- Applause / Applaudissements 7 1720 8 818 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Laurie 9 Brinklow to make a presentation. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 819 MS BRINKLOW: I grew up on the west 12 coast in several small cities and towns of British 13 Columbia; Prince Rupert, Fort St. John, Prince George, 14 Skookumchuck in the Kootenays and in Port Alberni, 15 Nanaimo and Victoria on Vancouver Island. 16 820 As the daughter of a construction 17 worker we moved a lot. We lived a couple of summers 18 building the TransCanada Pipeline through Saskatchewan 19 and Manitoba and spent a year and a half in northern 20 Ontario, from Huntsville and North Bay through to 21 Kapuskasing, Hearst and Geraldton. 22 821 Being the daughter of a country and 23 western music fan, we didn't listen to CBC. I probably 24 didn't even hear of it until I was in high school in 25 Prince George, where I had a vague knowledge of it StenoTran 171 1 being one of those boring stations where people talked 2 all the time. 3 822 In the late 1970s, in one of my 4 summer jobs, between terms at the University of 5 Victoria, I heard how "Morningside" was the salvation 6 of my boss who had just come off maternity leave. 7 However, I and my friends still listened to CKDU. 8 823 Television was different. CBC meant 9 Tommy Hunter and "Hockey Night in Canada", "The Don 10 Messer Show", "Front Page Challenge" and Walt Disney. 11 It didn't have any good Saturday morning cartoons. 12 824 It wasn't until I moved to Whitehorse 13 that I was formally introduced to CBC radio, 14 "Morningside" with Don Harron, "As It Happens" with 15 Barbara Frum, news coverage from around the world 16 brought to me in what I thought to be one of the last 17 outposts of Canada until I heard about Old Crow. 18 825 At the same time, local programming 19 was vital to my fitting in. I could learn about the 20 place I was living in become connected to the culture I 21 had chosen. It was a lifeline that went both ways. 22 826 When the bottom fell out of the 23 economy in 1982 I left the north, and in June of 1983, 24 quite by accident, ended up in Prince Edward Island 25 looking for work. Indeed, it is because of the CBC StenoTran 172 1 that I am still here. My partner at the time was a 2 journalist and was told by Martin Durell, then 3 Executive Producer of CBC Radio, that he was eminently 4 qualified to work at CBC if something came up and, in 5 the meantime, he could always freelance. He bought 6 himself a tape recorder and did just that. 7 827 I introduced myself to the publisher 8 of Ragweed Press and began my career as a book 9 publisher. Sixteen years later I'm publishing 10 co-ordinator at the Institute of Island Studies at the 11 University of Prince Edward Island. The Acorn Press, 12 which publishes book about Prince Edward Island, is 13 what I do after hours and on weekends. 14 828 The reason I tell you about myself is 15 because I am one of those very fortunate people who 16 have actually seen and experienced life in many 17 different parts of this vast country. Each region 18 knows what it is like to feel isolated and peripheral 19 to the centre, but each region has a culture that is 20 unique and I know how fiercely a people will strive to 21 protect it, and that sense of identity that comes with 22 being on the periphery, if it is threatened. 23 829 Certainly, other countries have a 24 similar dichotomy between rural and urban societies, 25 but in Canada it's part of our DNA, a result of StenoTran 173 1 geography and history, and we have learned to live with 2 it, for the most part harmoniously. 3 830 In the past, just like the CPR, the 4 CBC has played a significant role in holding it all 5 together, by allowing Canadians to communicate with one 6 another from one end of the country to the other on a 7 somewhat equal footing. 8 831 I fear, however, that there are plans 9 afoot by the powers that be in what we somewhat 10 disparagingly call Upper Canada, or as Charlie 11 Farquharson calls it, "Uppity Canada" to systematically 12 dismantle it. 13 832 One of the things I found important 14 in the book publishing industry is the very great need 15 to publish books about and from the culture in which 16 you find yourself, reflecting one's culture back to 17 one's self in tangible forms, such as books, music, 18 art, newspapers and magazines, a crucial part of making 19 a people believe that what they are doing is 20 worthwhile, that what they have to say is worth 21 listening to. 22 833 In 1985 Ragweed published a grade six 23 social studies textbook about Prince Edward Island that 24 is still used in schools today. The children's 25 reactions to having their Island in a hardcover book StenoTran 174 1 was incredible. They could see the guy in the Post 2 Office whose picture was in the book and think that 3 maybe where they live isn't such a hick town after all. 4 If it's in a book, maybe Prince Edward Island is 5 important after all. 6 834 How different from my experience 7 where my textbooks were imported from the U.S. or the 8 U.K. and where I worried that my own little part of the 9 world might not even get mentioned. 10 835 It's the same with radio and TV. 11 Hearing about something you are doing on the radio or 12 seeing your neighbour on TV reflects your culture back 13 to you and that is empowering. 14 836 Given the devastating cutbacks to 15 local and regional programming in recent years, I fear 16 that our local CBC radio and TV are under seige. 17 Rumours abound that the station will become downgraded 18 to a bureau, losing its ability to program and maintain 19 a staff. If that were to happen, we on Prince Edward 20 Island would lose one of the most important mediums we 21 have for reflecting our culture back to us. 22 837 Ratings consistently show that our 23 local programming has a significant share of the market 24 audience. I have heard the figure of 80 per cent for 25 our supper hour TV show "Compass". As a book publisher StenoTran 175 1 I know that if a story about a book I am publishing or 2 an event I am organizing is mentioned, book sales and 3 audiences increase substantially. 4 838 If one of our politicians is 5 interviewed on a controversial issue everyone is 6 talking about it at work the next day. Everyone 7 watches it. 8 839 And, similarly, most people listen to 9 "Island Morning". Since the strike began a few weeks 10 ago I have heard so many people echo the same thing, 11 "We're lost without our morning show. The fill-in show 12 from Halifax just doesn't cut it." 13 840 Our "Main Street" program used to 14 have as its focus local news and culture. It was a 15 wonderful show with Sheryl MacKay and before Nils was 16 co-host with her before she was on her own. A couple 17 of years ago directors in Toronto began to change 18 things, centralizing power by dictating what was to be 19 on the air in that particular time slot. They stated 20 how many stories from away and even which ones had to 21 be played on the local show. There were to be more of 22 those stories than there were local ones. There was no 23 rationale for it. It didn't change staffing. It 24 didn't change the budget. 25 841 Sheryl left the show and I suppose StenoTran 176 1 "Main Street's" loss is "Compass'" gain, but with all 2 due respect and love to Matt Rainnie and Andy Morrow 3 who did the best with what they have been given to work 4 with, I think "Main Street" has lost its soul. 5 842 Relevance to Prince Edward Island has 6 dwindled to almost nothing. Those stories from away 7 are repeated on other national and regional programs 8 until we can't stand it any more. "Main Street" has 9 been gutted and I fear that that's what is planned for 10 the rest of the local programming. 11 843 Why should Canada's public 12 broadcaster not serve the wishes of all Canadians? We 13 in Prince Edward Island pay taxes just like they do in 14 Upper Canada. I have even heard the sentiment 15 expressed that it should be a constitutional right that 16 each province have a local CBC station and thus control 17 over their own local programming. 18 844 Why should we not have control over 19 something upon which we have come to depend for our 20 cultural survival? Why cannot the CBC continue to 21 offer national broadcasts in some time slots, bringing 22 us news and glimpses of the cultures of other regions 23 of Canada and let the local stations fill their time in 24 ways that best serve their markets? 25 845 My own vision for CBC radio would be StenoTran 177 1 to have a local station in each part of the country 2 that is culturally distinct from one another, again to 3 reflect the culture in which it is situated. Each of 4 those cultures is part of the mosaic that is Canada and 5 each is significant enough to be seen and heard. The 6 morning, noon and afternoon shows would be free to 7 program in a way that best suited their audiences. If 8 they could do local programming on weekends, so much 9 the better. 10 846 There would continue to be various 11 time slots of national programming that would draw 12 their inspiration and material from those local 13 stations, not the other way around, and in that way the 14 rest of Canada would learn about and appreciate the 15 parts that make up the whole. 16 847 My CBC would be thought provoking and 17 dynamic. It would celebrate our local and regional 18 differences and not mire itself in the mediocrity of 19 sameness. News coverage would be leading edge, 20 thorough and fair. It would be arm's length, free of 21 political interference and free to challenge government 22 and big business. It would not back down to the Prime 23 Minister's Office and put one of its most highly 24 respected reporters on leave because he dared to dig 25 too deep. It would make sure that the environment, StenoTran 178 1 human rights, social issues, our Canadian culture were 2 protected. It would not be sensationalistic. It would 3 have a human face. My CBC would have integrity and it 4 would serve as Canada's conscience. 5 848 I believe that the stronger the 6 individual parts the stronger the whole. This works 7 for personal relationships and it works for Canada. I 8 believe that the more we can focus on strengthening the 9 parts, the better off we will be and that means giving 10 us back our cultures. Let's not let them be lost to 11 those centralist attitudes which dictate that 12 everything be the same. 13 849 CBC has a role to play in keeping 14 this country a dynamic tapestry of different cultural 15 experiences, part of what makes it such a wonderful 16 place to life. 17 850 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, you have 18 reached your time limit. 19 851 MS BRINKLOW: My daughters still flip 20 the dial to Majic 93 when they get in the car. They 21 complain about radio where all they do is talk or play 22 classical music, but at least they know what CBC is. I 23 just hope it's still there when they get old enough to 24 appreciate it. 25 --- Applause / Applaudissements StenoTran 179 1 1730 2 852 MR. STEWART: The next person on the 3 list has indicated that she will not be making a 4 presentation and that's Ms Ruth Brewer. 5 853 So, I now call upon Mr. David 6 Doughton to make his presentation. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 854 M. DAVID DOUGHTON: Merci pour 9 l'opportunité de faire une présentation. 10 855 As it happens, we are running late, 11 so my phone will probably ring with the babysitter 12 wondering where I am, so I apologize for that if it 13 happens. I will keep it under three minutes though, 14 which should be welcomed. 15 856 I work with something called the 16 Regional Co-operative Development Centre, which is an 17 economic development arm of the co-op and credit union 18 system. I also Chair the Health Information Resource 19 Centre on Prince Edward Island and I am a former 20 President of the P.E.I. Writer's Guild. 21 857 Like Mr. MacCabe who spoke earlier, I 22 am also a husband, father and a Christian, but you 23 probably don't need to know that. 24 858 I would like to read briefly a 25 passage from a letter I wrote to Minister Copps and StenoTran 180 1 just add a few comments. So: 2 "CBC radio is a national 3 resource of inestimable value. 4 It's a key component of 5 community capacity building in 6 Atlantic Canada, as well as 7 serving to promote cohesion and 8 mutual understanding among 9 communities of interest across 10 the country, from the arts and 11 cultural sectors to ethnic and 12 linguistic minorities. The 13 current disarray in programming 14 is having a deleterious effect 15 on community life and is already 16 eroding the awareness of local 17 arts and culture. Please do 18 everything in your power to 19 bring about a positive 20 resolution to the labour dispute 21 and to strengthen the CBC 22 network." (As read) 23 859 Personally, I am more of a listener 24 than a viewer, mostly because of the intrusive and 25 unwelcome presence of commercial advertising on CBC StenoTran 181 1 television. I encourage you to advocate for 2 commercial-free television service and to exhort your 3 Cabinet colleagues to endorse support for a Canadian 4 Broadcasting Corporation that produces programming 5 which we can be proud of and which provides a refuge 6 from sales pitches. 7 860 My comment is that I realize it may 8 be unrealistic to look to reduce ad revenue in a 9 financial crisis, but I would echo the commercial 10 grouping concerns of earlier speakers. There has to be 11 a better way of getting the ad revenue than peppering 12 everything with ads. 13 861 I am one of a group of fortunate 14 people who have experienced commercial-free TV and it's 15 better and there is no comparison. 16 862 I spoke of CBC radio. Radio-Canada 17 is also an exceptional resource. They do arguably the 18 best hockey coverage anywhere, as well as showcasing 19 francophone culture. 20 863 The alternatives to CBC in this new 21 multi-channel universe are generally either 22 sensationalistic or shallow. I find that what rushes 23 in to fill the vacuum when you eliminate things that 24 are profound an insightful is not other profound and 25 insightful things. It tends to be sensationalistic and StenoTran 182 1 shallow things. 2 864 Marketplace economics don't work in 3 quality broadcasting, any more than they work with 4 schools. I think you would find that if you asked 5 children to choose between going to school and going to 6 the mall or video arcade, the movie theatre and let the 7 marketplace take its course, that there would be very 8 few people in school and a lot of people in the video 9 arcades, the malls and the movie theatres. The quality 10 of education would nosedive and there would be many 11 adverse implications for Canada. 12 865 So, from my perspective I think that 13 the CBC is a major component of community capacity 14 building across Canada and it's something that 15 everybody seems to focus on in other areas, like Human 16 Resources Development Canada, but they don't realize 17 the value of it in broadcasting and I think will regret 18 it deeply when it is gone, if it goes, which of course 19 it won't because we will support it. 20 866 Last but not least, a number of 21 people have spoken about the need for all-Canadian 22 programming. Personally, I don't want all-Canadian 23 programming. I find the CBC needs to select things 24 from around the world. I find when I am up late enough 25 to listen to the all-night stuff from other countries I StenoTran 183 1 find it fascinating. So, yes, by all means primarily 2 Canadian, but there is more to the CBC than just 3 Canadian content. It's the way that they interpret 4 things from the rest of the world to Canadians. 5 867 Thank you. Merci. 6 --- Applause / Applaudissements 7 868 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 8 Merci. 9 1735 10 869 MR. STEWART: The final presenter for 11 this session is Mr. Ian Dennison. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 870 MR. DENNISON: Thank you. 14 871 Madam Bertrand, Mr. Langford, fellow 15 citizens, thank you for coming here to listen to us. 16 It's important to have this opportunity, as others have 17 stated. 18 872 I wonder if I might just ask what 19 other members of the media are present today. Is The 20 Guardian here? Is CFCY here? Is Eastern Graphic here? 21 I rest my case. We need the CBC. 22 873 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: They may not 23 be here as much to cover the story as for other 24 motives. Anyway -- 25 874 MR. DENNISON: But without the CBC, StenoTran 184 1 you know, there are a lot of things that simply don't 2 get covered, and sometimes even when they are covered 3 by the other media they seem to be covered most fairly 4 by the CBC. 5 875 I had the opportunity, and I was 6 grateful for it, to participate in a morning phone-in 7 show a couple of weeks ago. I found that the CBC's 8 coverage of it and the balance that they gave to that 9 was quite significant. I happened to be sort of a 10 guest expert, if you will, on that program. 11 876 I found it instructive too to watch 12 how that programming happens and to watch the 13 technician in his booth, and I know that the 14 technicians are on strike, but these people deserve a 15 lot of credit for the kind of job that they do because 16 this man he needed two heads and six hands. It was a 17 masterful job. I think it is important to support them 18 in that. 19 877 I am a self-confessed radio addict. 20 I speak mainly on behalf of the radio services, what we 21 used to call the stereo network, which is now called 22 Radio Two and Radio One, the English network. You will 23 find that sometimes I roll into my driveway in my truck 24 in my little village and people in my village must 25 wonder, it's a real curiosity, but that man just sits StenoTran 185 1 there in his truck. Why isn't he getting out? 2 878 Well, there is some important 3 programming and he just doesn't want to leave his 4 truck. It's CBC radio and he can't get away from it. 5 And maybe that's a common experience. 6 879 I hear they do this in Ottawa too, 7 the politicians and the number crunchers sit out in 8 their vehicles and they don't enter their place of work 9 because they are busy listening. 10 880 There are also other important things 11 that CBC gives to us as citizens. For me, my 12 continuing education is largely from CBC. I get 13 information from CBC that is tremendous and in depth 14 and of tremendous value from programs like "Ideas", 15 "Quirks and Quarks", even "Basic Black" for crying out 16 loud. 17 881 I would pay for CBC in other ways 18 even than my tax dollar if I had to. I feel that I am 19 paying for it in my tax dollar, but if the government 20 thinks differently I would even subscribe to it and 21 that's one notion that hasn't been mentioned, heaven 22 forbid. Maybe people don't want to think about that. 23 Maybe they think that we are paying enough in our taxes 24 for services like the CBC, but I would be willing to 25 pay for it even outside of my taxes, the service is StenoTran 186 1 that important to me. Maybe that has to be considered 2 if the tax base will not support it. 3 882 Basically, in response to the four 4 questions that were offered to us, I like the CBC as it 5 is or, maybe more to the point, as it was three or four 6 years ago. I don't think I could add a lot to what the 7 service was and I believe that funding should be 8 restored to it. 9 883 I like the imagination of radio and 10 that is something that television cannot give to us. I 11 think only CBC radio can appeal to the imagination in 12 the way that it does. Commercial radio doesn't seem to 13 have the capability to do it and television won't do it 14 for us. 15 884 I already confessed to you that I am 16 a radio addict and that's one of the reason that I 17 don't watch television because of the addictive nature 18 of my personality and I believe a lot of citizens share 19 this. When I sit down in front of the TV it's not me. 20 Whereas with radio I can do other things. Thank heaven 21 I can still drive while I'm listening to the radio. 22 You couldn't do that in front of the TV. 23 885 I find the TV is mind numbing, but 24 radio is exciting. It's fascinating. It's 25 interesting. It speaks to me and I get a chance to StenoTran 187 1 speak back to it. 2 886 Yes, CBC should be different from 3 other media. It is important to maintain that 4 difference. 5 887 And that is about all I have to say, 6 except for maybe one other small reference. The 7 gentleman who sat beside me, Kip Smith, made a 8 reference to an obscure happening in this province. He 9 talked about resources coverage and he made specific 10 reference to a current conflict that is happening in 11 our forest industries. It's the Forest Contractor Code 12 of Practice and I happen to be front and centre in that 13 debate, being the Chair of the Forest Partnership 14 Council. So, I have been able to experience firsthand 15 what happens when media coverage is unfavourable, 16 slanted, biased or just twisted. 17 888 I find the CBC radio in particular, 18 and maybe television as well, has given the most 19 balanced coverage to this debate or dialogue of any of 20 the media. We desperately, desperately need that in 21 this province, in this country and I doubt that we 22 could get it anywhere else than from the CBC, which is, 23 after all, ours. 24 889 Thank you. 25 --- Applause / Applaudissements StenoTran 188 1 890 MR. STEWART: Madame la Présidente, 2 that concludes the list of presenters. At this stage I 3 am not sure if it is your intention to invite the CBC 4 to -- 5 1740 6 891 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 7 Yes. 8 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 9 892 MS MITTON: We will make this brief. 10 893 Thank you. My name is Susan Mitton 11 and I am the Regional Director of Radio and I will 12 speak on behalf of all my colleagues, if that's more 13 efficient. 14 894 We would like to thank the Commission 15 for this incredible opportunity. This is the final 16 stop of three centres in the maritimes, Sydney, Moncton 17 and Charlottetown. I think it has given everyone an 18 incredible sense of the heartfelt appreciation for the 19 CBC that most maritimers have. I will get to a little 20 bit of that in a moment. 21 895 I wanted to say that over the past 22 three days we have had the privilege of hearing from 23 100 people here in the maritimes at least, people who 24 clearly listen to hours and hours of radio and watch 25 television with great intensity as well. In fact, it StenoTran 189 1 is you people who are the experts, so you can 2 appreciate for us that this has been a rare opportunity 3 to sit back and listen to 20 hours of your views and 4 thoughts and criticisms and reflections on CBC as a 5 national service. 6 896 It is up to you, obviously, to 7 interpret what you have heard, but from what I have 8 heard and my colleagues have heard we sense a 9 resounding support for local programming everywhere we 10 have been to, and a sense that it is a critical service 11 in holding together communities and reflecting 12 communities and a dialogue place for communities. 13 897 There is also great respect for some 14 regional programming and certainly for a national 15 system that connects the whole country. I think that 16 that's been heard loud and clear. 17 898 We have heard specific concerns. It 18 is not our role really here to go through every one. 19 What we intend to do is we have made notes and we will 20 try and get back to some of you who have raised 21 concerns that we would be better to answer off line and 22 we will be also submitting information to the 23 Commission on certain questions that were raised. 24 899 I can tell you, sir, it is still 25 seven cents a day. It is actually down from ten. StenoTran 190 1 That's a quickie and the radio guide I think we can 2 work with, but things like that we will try and get 3 back to you on. 4 900 I would just like to conclude by 5 saying that to me, as a maritimer, it is not normal for 6 us to crow. And you have been in a region where, in 7 fact, few people have mentioned ratings. They won't be 8 what you remember. You will probably, as I do, 9 remember the personal stories, the earthworm CD, the 10 lady who had the bed and breakfast with all her guests 11 sitting around talking about something they had all 12 heard on CBC radio. Those personal stories will stay 13 as what the CBC means to individuals and how it has 14 touched their lives. 15 901 But I do want to take this 16 opportunity to put on the record that the maritime 17 region enjoys ratings in both television and radio 18 that, compared to none in the country, our radio shares 19 are double the national average in this region and our 20 television -- Charlottetown's share of 85. Halifax has 21 a very strong share and the New Brunswick station is 22 growing all the time. 23 902 But it goes to say that it's not an 24 elite group of maritimers that care about the CBC. It 25 is very widespread. We have enjoyed incredible support StenoTran 191 1 over the years for both services and for the French 2 service which is seen as critical to the Acadians in 3 this region and to francophones outside of Quebec. 4 903 So, I would sense that you have 5 picked that up as well, and you can appreciate how -- 6 sometimes our jobs seem difficult, but when you have 7 appreciation and a sense of ownership by the public, 8 like we have for the work we do, it's just a very 9 satisfying role that we play. 10 904 Thank you very much. 11 --- Applause / Applaudissements 12 905 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 13 Thank you very much, all. I want to really thank all 14 of you intervenors who have taken the afternoon in a 15 very cold room, although a very beautiful room and a 16 very meaningful room, to have really brought your 17 warmth and passion about the CBC. It is true, you 18 really give sense to the meaning of public broadcaster. 19 906 Thank you very much for your 20 participation. 21 907 We will be back at six o'clock for 22 the evening session. Thank you. 23 --- Recess at 1745 / Suspension à 1745 24 --- Upon resuming at 1814 Reprise à 1814 25 908 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: StenoTran 192 1 Good evening everyone. Welcome to this regional and 2 public consultation of the CRTC. My name is Françoise 3 Bertrand and I am the CRTC Chairperson. I would like 4 to introduce my fellow Commissioner, Stuart Langford, 5 on my left here. 6 909 We are here to gather your views and 7 comments on CBC radio and television. In your opinion 8 how should the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil 9 its role in the coming years. 10 910 The CBC is a national public service, 11 broadcasting in English, as well as in French. It 12 plays an important role in the Canadian broadcasting 13 system. 14 911 Today many elements are constantly 15 being added to the broadcasting system, as new 16 technologies multiply, converge, open up new horizons 17 and increasingly offer new services. In this context, 18 we want to know what are your needs and expectations as 19 viewers and listeners of the CBC. 20 912 Given that, it is very important that 21 the Commission hears what you have to say. We must not 22 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public 23 organization that serves Canadians. It is in this 24 capacity we are responsible to you. 25 913 This is why my fellow Commissioners StenoTran 193 1 and myself find it vital to come and meet with you to 2 discuss these issues and why we are holding this series 3 of regional consultations from one end of the country 4 to the other in 11 Canadian cities from March 9 to 18. 5 914 These consultations are designed to 6 give you a chance on the eve of a new millennium to 7 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 8 it offer and the direction it should take at the 9 national, regional and local levels. 10 915 Through these consultations we hope 11 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear 12 your concerns. Your comments will form part of the 13 public record, which will be added to the record of the 14 public hearing of the CBC that will begin in Hull on 15 May 25. 16 916 At this upcoming hearing the 17 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the 18 renewal of its licences, including radio, television 19 and its specialty services, Newsworld and Réseau de 20 l'information. You can also take part in that public 21 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. 22 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the 23 specific licence renewals being examined when you file 24 your comments. 25 917 Now, I would like to come back to StenoTran 194 1 today's consultations. Please allow me to introduce 2 the CRTC staff who will be assisting us today. 3 Alastair Stewart, our legal counsel, and Brien Rodger, 4 the Director of our Halifax Regional Office. Please 5 feel free to call on them with any questions you might 6 have about the process today or any other matter. 7 918 So that you will have the opportunity 8 to speak, we ask that you please limit your 9 presentation to 10 minutes. As these consultations are 10 a forum designed especially for you and we want to 11 listen to as many participants as possible, we will not 12 ask any questions unless we need clarification. 13 919 At the end of this session, 14 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a 15 chance to offer their views, as they are naturally very 16 interested by the issues we are discussing here today. 17 920 Before we start, I would ask our 18 legal counsel to go over some of the housekeeping 19 matters regarding the conduct of this consultation 20 before he introduces the first intervenor. 21 921 M. STEWART: Merci, Madame la 22 Présidente. 23 922 I will invite each presenter to make 24 his or her presentation in accordance with the order 25 established for this proceeding. I understand that StenoTran 195 1 order is on a piece of paper that is available at the 2 entrance to this hall. 3 923 I would ask you when making your 4 presentation to speak into the microphone and before 5 speaking if you could press the white button so that 6 you can activate the system. That way your comments 7 will be transcribed for the public record. 8 924 At the conclusion of your 9 presentation if you would be good enough to again press 10 that little button to turn the system off to avoid the 11 echo phenomenon that otherwise occurs. 12 925 For those who wish to avail 13 themselves of the simultaneous translation, 14 simultaneous translation is available and the necessary 15 equipment, the headset, is available from the people 16 who are located near where all that technical gear is 17 situated. 18 926 I would also strongly appeal to you 19 to limit your presentations to 10 minutes. We have got 20 many speakers here and for the interests of everyone if 21 you could do that it would be most appreciated. 22 1820 23 927 With your permission, Madame la 24 Présidente, I would like to call upon the first speaker 25 and invite the Hon. Patrick Binns, Premier of Prince StenoTran 196 1 Edward Island, to make his presentation. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 928 PREMIER BINNS: Madame Bertrand, 4 Mr. Langford, ladies and gentlemen, may I first welcome 5 you to Prince Edward Island, Canada's smallest province 6 and the birthplace of Canada's greatest achievement, 7 Confederation. 8 929 We are grateful indeed that the CRTC 9 has taken the time to not only seek public input on 10 this matter, but also to send you as Commissioners 11 across Canada to receive that input directly. 12 930 I know that you will leave this 13 province with a far greater appreciation of the role of 14 the CBC in the daily lives of Islanders and theirs as 15 Canadians than you came with. 16 931 The people of P.E.I. value the CBC 17 highly. For many years the CBC has performed a great 18 service to the Island and to Canada and, despite 19 greatly diminished resources, the Corporation continues 20 to play an important role in national unity. 21 932 On the Island, the CBC provides our 22 only locally produced TV news program and our only 23 local daily current affairs radio shows. That is why 24 it is so important to us to maintain the level of local 25 programming that we have. StenoTran 197 1 933 I am sure that you are hearing from 2 many Canadians who are concerned about the erosion of 3 local and regional programming over the past several 4 years. We are also concerned, probably even more so 5 than people in larger urban centres. 6 934 A labour dispute causes many 7 hardships, but the current technicians' strike has 8 given us an even greater appreciation of the services 9 provided by the CBC. Since the strike began we have 10 lost most of our local CBC news and current affairs 11 coverage and this temporary loss paints a vivid and 12 disturbing picture of what the future might look like 13 if local programming continued to decline. 14 935 The questions you pose in the news 15 release announcing these hearings speak to the very 16 heart of the existence and operation of the CBC. I 17 would respond first by stating simply that there is a 18 special role for the CBC -- that the CBC should play. 19 That role should be different from that of other 20 private broadcasters. I don't think the CBC is 21 fulfilling its mandate as well as it used to, and I 22 worry that services it provides, especially at the 23 local and regional level, will deteriorate even 24 further. In the course of this presentation I will 25 attempt to expand on those statements. StenoTran 198 1 936 I believe that the role of the CBC 2 should be to reflect Canadians to themselves, to 3 introduce Canadians to one another and to help 4 strengthen the bonds of community. To do so, the CBC 5 must recognize that this is a diverse country. That 6 sounds like an obvious statement, but it is a statement 7 worth reiterating. We are different from the rest of 8 Canada, especially the part that lies outside the 9 Atlantic region. 10 937 In spite of the signs of urbanization 11 that you see here, we are still basically a rural 12 society. We are close knit, somewhat laid back, 13 intensely interested in our families, our neighbours, 14 our land and sea and our shared history. We are quick 15 to help each other in times of trouble. We have a rich 16 culture which has been preserved and nourished for 17 generations, partly perhaps as a result of being an 18 island. 19 938 We have inherited an especially 20 vibrant tradition of music and storytelling. We have 21 preoccupations that may seem somewhat odd to people in 22 other places. For instance, you might be surprised to 23 learn what happened when one of the private radio 24 stations decided to drop a longstanding feature, the 25 death announcements. There was such an outcry from StenoTran 199 1 Islanders that the station backed down. Well, we care 2 about our neighbours here and when they pass on we like 3 to know about it. 4 939 Of course we care about other 5 Canadians too and we share many of their values and 6 interests, but I maintain that it is impossible to 7 reflect the lives of maritimers from a broadcast studio 8 in Toronto. The CBC must ensure that local stations, 9 such as the one in Charlottetown, are given the freedom 10 and the resources to provide programs that respond to 11 the needs and interests of local communities. I 12 believe that this is the responsibility of a public 13 broadcaster. In fact, it is one of the main 14 characteristics that sets the CBC apart from other 15 broadcasters. 16 940 We are interested in the outside 17 world. However, obtaining information about the 18 outside world is the least of our problems. There are 19 literally dozens of sources we can turn to for instant 20 information about significant national and world 21 events; the multi-channel television universe, the 22 Internet, the national and international publications 23 that flood our magazine racks and, of course, the CBC 24 itself. 25 941 What we need are sources to which we StenoTran 200 1 can turn for in-depth coverage of what is happening in 2 our own communities. The CBC must have a mandate that 3 goes beyond paying its own way. Its role should be to 4 produce a high-quality product, not to produce mass 5 audiences that can be sold to advertisers. The CBC, 6 therefore, must have enough financial support from the 7 federal government to ensure that it can meet its 8 mandate. 9 942 Although the CBC has served the 10 Island well in the past, budget cuts in the past few 11 years have placed severe constraints on local radio and 12 television programming, but it is my impression that 13 this issue goes deeper than fiscal restraints. The CBC 14 also must have the will to encourage strong, local 15 programming, and not actively discourage it as appears 16 to be the case in some instances. 17 943 One of the great success stories of 18 the CBC in this province is that of "Compass", the 19 supper hour TV show. It has a tremendously loyal 20 following, as I am sure you have heard today, partly 21 because it is the only game in town, but also because 22 it does an excellent job and I know the ratings are in 23 the vicinity of 70 to 80 per cent. 24 944 Periodically, columnists in the 25 national print media argue against spending money on StenoTran 201 1 CBC supper hour shows, since they draw such sparse 2 audiences in many larger urban centres. That may make 3 sense in some places, but not here. If CBC television 4 were shut down in Charlottetown or demoted to the 5 status of a bureau, we would be left with very little 6 television coverage. It is hard to imagine a private 7 broadcaster moving in to adequately fill this gap. 8 945 We have already suffered considerable 9 losses in our local television programming. A few 10 years ago Islanders had a local CBC supper hour news 11 program, a local late night report, a mid-day news and 12 interview show, a weekly resources show and a weekly 13 program showcasing Island music. 14 946 The late night report is now a 15 regional show from Halifax. The other shows have 16 disappeared, not because they were unpopular, but 17 because of budget cuts and decisions made somewhere 18 else. Today the supper hour show is the only local TV 19 program left. Even "Compass" is not strictly a local 20 show, as it carries national and international items as 21 well. However, with a staff of 18 it maintains a high 22 degree of credibility among the viewing public and it 23 sets a high standard of news reporting among the local 24 media. 25 947 Our other source of local and StenoTran 202 1 regional TV news is the late night newscast from 2 Halifax. The scheduling of this show is a personal 3 irritant to me. While there isn't a great deal of 4 Island news on the show, it still provides some insight 5 into what is happening in the province and in the 6 region. It's especially useful to watch it if you have 7 missed the supper hour news. At one time the regional 8 show ran at 11:00 p.m., right after the CBC national 9 news. Then the CBC decided to treat us to another half 10 hour rebroadcast of the national news. That means that 11 you have to sit through an exact repeat of the national 12 news before you can get to the regional news at 11:30. 13 This makes absolutely no sense to me and, as I have 14 said to others in the CBC, how stupid do you think we 15 are? 16 948 The correspondence I have had with 17 the CBC has not improved my understanding of the 18 situation. If the CBC needs to rebroadcast the 19 national news, why not do it after the regional news, 20 then we maritimers can perhaps get to bed at a decent 21 hour and, as I mentioned earlier, as a rural society we 22 have lots of farmers and fishermen and small business 23 people that like to get up early in the day and they 24 like to see the news at night. This would give us an 25 opportunity to do both. StenoTran 203 1 949 In any case, I am not sure that the 2 national news deserves to be broadcast twice in one 3 evening. When I turn to the CBC national news, I would 4 like to hear and see what is happening in communities 5 across Canada. I am more likely to hear a CBC reporter 6 in Washington telling more than I want to know about 7 the personal life of the U.S. President. If that is 8 the sort of information some viewers want, I would 9 argue that there are many other sources to which they 10 can turn. 11 950 The CBC has many reporters and 12 editors across Canada who are busy every day producing 13 stories and events and issues in the communities they 14 serve directly. It should be possible to glean from 15 the local reports enough interesting material to give 16 us a snapshot of life in Canada on any given day. If 17 our national public broadcaster does not provide such a 18 service, who will? How do we learn about and 19 appreciate the many significant events taking place in 20 this country? How do we build and strengthen our 21 national identity? 22 951 I applaud the CBC's announced 23 intention to increase Canadian content in prime time 24 television with this qualification. Variety programs 25 broadcast on CBC television should be subject to the StenoTran 204 1 same high standards as current affairs shows are. 2 952 I am grateful to the CBC for 3 supporting shows such as "The Road to Avonlea" and 4 "Emily of New Moon" which, of course, was shot on the 5 Island. The CBC should not be broadcasting dramas or 6 so-called comedies just because they are Canadian made. 7 If they are cheap, vulgar, mindless or just plain 8 offensive to many adult viewers, they should be 9 replaced by variety shows of which we can be proud. 10 Surely there are enough talented artists across this 11 country to produce such shows. 12 953 My criticism about the national news 13 and current affairs coverage do not apply to radio. In 14 fact, our national coverage of news and current affairs 15 on radio has played an enormous role in strengthening 16 our ties from coast to coast. No doubt this is one 17 reason that CBC radio has for many years enjoyed such a 18 loyal following. Despite the millions of dollars in 19 budget cuts, the national radio service manages to 20 continue to entertain and enlighten us. 21 954 Unfortunately, local programming is 22 suffering, despite the best efforts of a greatly 23 reduced local staff. A number of years ago we lost our 24 local noon show and fisherman's broadcast. That left 25 us with five hours of locally produced current affairs StenoTran 205 1 shows, three in the morning and two in the afternoon. 2 Now we appear to be losing local content on those time 3 slots. For example, the show known as "Main Street", 4 broadcast from 4:00 to 6:00 in the afternoon, used to 5 serve as an excellent mirror of life of Island 6 communities. Staff on the show did remote broadcasts 7 from one end of the Island to the other and seemed to 8 be on the road every day interviewing interesting folks 9 who otherwise might never be heard from. 10 955 The show also served as a showcase 11 for many talented Island and maritime musicians. Some 12 of these young artists had their first exposure on 13 "Main Street" and have since gone on to develop highly 14 successful careers. Even when the staff of the show 15 was cut in half because of reduced budgets, "Main 16 Street" continued to add a distinctively Island flavour 17 to CBC radio. 18 956 Unfortunately, that has changed. 19 Syndicated items from elsewhere in Canada have taken 20 over a much larger portion of the show. Very little 21 local music is being played. Interviews conducted from 22 the Charlottetown studio are often with people who have 23 little or no connection to this region. Clearly, the 24 show is suffering from lack of funds. 25 957 But I am told the shift in direction StenoTran 206 1 on "Main Street" occurred partly because of a policy 2 decision at CBC headquarters. I understand they 3 changed the format of the show and began issuing 4 directives that not only called for a certain number of 5 syndicated items per day, but actually specified which 6 items had to be broadcast. It is a mystery to me why a 7 person in an office in Toronto would presume to know 8 better than people who live and work on the Island what 9 Islanders want to hear. 10 958 I also wonder why they would impose 11 syndicated items on a local show when so much of the 12 broadcast day already consists of material from across 13 the country. 14 959 In any case, the result is clear, 15 local artists have lost a much needed venue and our 16 community has essentially lost another forum. 17 960 Yes, we do want to hear about other 18 Canadians elsewhere, but first we need to tell and hear 19 our own stories. To feel good about ourselves and to 20 strengthen the bonds of our community we need to 21 celebrate what is unique about public affairs, unique 22 in our corner of Canada. In order to make intelligent 23 decisions about public affairs we need to be informed 24 about what is going on in our daily lives. 25 961 The CBC seems to be operating these StenoTran 207 1 days on a department store type of philosophy. We 2 recently saw Eaton's close in P.E.I., not because they 3 weren't making money, but because it didn't fit their 4 national identity. It's a philosophy that all the 5 policy should apply across the country, regardless of 6 what works or is needed in any particular region. 7 962 As Canadians we do share many values 8 and characteristics, but, as I said at the outset, we 9 are all so regionally distinctive and our acceptance 10 and tolerance of that fact makes us a truly great 11 nation. A national broadcaster should reflect that 12 reality and not attempt to ignore it. 13 963 At a time in which ownership of the 14 media has become increasingly concentrated, in fewer 15 and fewer corporate hands and with syndication of our 16 broadcast media homogenizing the sound of our airwaves, 17 the CBC should provide us with a choice. 18 964 Members of the Commission, if I could 19 deliver only one message to you that you in could pass 20 on to the CBC, it would be this: Please do not destroy 21 what works well in seeking to improve what does not 22 work well. Every market across Canada is different and 23 a truly national public broadcaster should respect our 24 regional variances. 25 965 In fact, I maintain that those StenoTran 208 1 differences should be celebrated. The result would be 2 a stronger country and an infinitely better CBC. 3 966 Thank you. 4 --- Applause / Applaudissements 5 967 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 6 Thank you very much, Monsieur le premier ministre. It 7 is a great honour for the Commission and I am sure for 8 the CBC as well that it was important enough for you, 9 as it is for the Islanders, to come and meet with us 10 this evening. Thank you very much for your 11 participation. 12 968 I can tell you that your intervention 13 echoes what we have been hearing all afternoon. It is 14 the great attachment and the necessity of hearing a 15 voice that is local and not strictly about national, 16 which is important as well as regional, but local about 17 P.E.I. 18 969 Thank you very much. I don't know if 19 Mr. Langford has any remarks. 20 970 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You can save 21 any money you plan to spend on polling. You are 22 completely in tune with your constituents. 23 971 PREMIER BINNS: Thank you. 24 972 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 25 Thank you very much. StenoTran 209 1 1835 2 973 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Leo 3 Broderick to make his presentation. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 974 MR. BRODERICK: Thank you very much. 6 975 I have parent/teacher interviews and 7 I am late, so I won't be able to remain for 10 minutes. 8 I will only take a couple of minutes. 9 976 I am a teacher. I am a very 10 concerned citizen in this province and I am very 11 concerned in particular with what is happening to many 12 of our national institutions, particularly the Canadian 13 Broadcasting Corporation. 14 977 There is no question that we need a 15 strong CBC, both radio and television, and I am 16 extremely concerned that with television we have moved 17 to commercialization and I do recommend strongly that 18 with Canadian television that there be no commercials 19 and that we move quickly to get rid of commercials with 20 television and that certainly with radio we keep it 21 non-commercial. 22 978 I am extremely concerned as well that 23 I believe there is a tremendous amount of political 24 influence at the CBC. Most people or all people 25 appointed, I understand, to the board of the CBC, are StenoTran 210 1 appointed as political patronage. I am even told that 2 even members of the CRTC are all appointed that way, so 3 what we are finding is that the politics of the day 4 determine pretty much where our public broadcasting 5 corporation is going. 6 979 And the move in this country over the 7 last 10, 12 years is to privatize almost everything. I 8 believe that the agenda for the CBC is one of 9 privatization and I object strongly to this move. It 10 must remain in the public sphere. The airwaves are 11 still public and the mandate given to the CBC in 1932, 12 to ensure that we reach all parts of this country and 13 that we continue to protect ourselves from 14 Americanization are still valid. I do strongly urge 15 that we counter any further moves to reduce the budget 16 of the CBC and that we move to privatization through 17 commercialization or any other means. 18 980 I also want to say that I do think 19 that there is within government, as well as the CBC, a 20 profound disrespect for workers and that very often 21 there is a move to eliminate collective bargaining 22 rights of workers. I think in this present climate in 23 this country it is very difficult for people to belong 24 to unions and I want to object to the way the Canadian 25 Broadcasting Corporation is treating its workers today. StenoTran 211 1 981 Now, I do want to make just a couple 2 of suggestions. One, we need to continue and improve 3 with a strong regional CBC and we need a stronger CBC 4 in this province. That means that we need to put more 5 money into the local CBC, so that we can have more 6 programming. We have been dramatically cut over the 7 last number of years. 8 982 As well, I do believe that in terms 9 of television we really have to take a serious look at 10 the kind of programming that is coming into our country 11 by way of the American programming. 12 983 So, I do have a number of comments, 13 but I must leave. To conclude, I want to say that we 14 need a stop put to the privatization talk that is going 15 on across this country. It is critical, particularly 16 in the regions, that we maintain a strong public 17 broadcasting corporation for the various reasons I am 18 sure that you have heard all day. So, it's critical. 19 Thank you. 20 984 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 21 Thank you very much, sir. 22 985 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Leo 23 Cheverie -- 24 986 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Excuse me, I 25 just wanted to say one thing. We have no secret agenda StenoTran 212 1 and we came here to hear the people of Prince Edward 2 Island. We have no plans to dismantle or destroy or to 3 do anything under the table. We are here to do 4 everything above the table. So, I can only say it and 5 I hope you will believe it. 6 987 MR. BRODERICK: I am saying that in 7 response to the fact that the Chair of the CRTC says 8 that in terms of protecting Canadian culture we must 9 face the reality that there is deregulation, which 10 means simply that in terms of many of the things that 11 we have in this country to protect Canadian culture 12 from foreign domination will be submitted to a 13 deregulated system. 14 988 And he has made the comment and I 15 think with that kind of thinking we can expect that in 16 terms of the CBC, as well as the CRTC, we cannot and 17 will not be able to put in place the kinds of things to 18 protect us from the cultural invasion and intrusion 19 from the United States and elsewhere. 20 989 I think particularly with the WTO 21 hearings coming up very quickly, very soon on this 22 whole question of cultural industries, it is critical 23 that we get our position and we know where we stand in 24 this country and that we ask -- 25 990 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: StenoTran 213 1 Sir, I am the Chair of the CRTC. I am not militant for 2 deregulation in broadcasting and I have been a public 3 broadcaster myself. So, thank you. 4 991 MR. BRODERICK: Well, it's good to 5 hear it. 6 1845 7 992 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Leo 8 Cheverie to make his presentation. 9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 10 993 MR. CHEVERIE: Hello. I thank you 11 for the opportunity to appear here and I am probably in 12 the unique position to actually speak on behalf of two 13 separate groups, one of which is the Prince Edward 14 Island Federation of Labour, which has 8,000 members on 15 P.E.I., and the other one is the Canadian Union of 16 Public Employees, which represents 3,000 people on 17 P.E.I. I want to give regrets from the Presidents of 18 both organizations. One President, Brenda Walker of 19 the P.E.I. Federation of Labour is actually conducting 20 a meeting presently, which I am actually going to be 21 late for and she wanted to give regrets for not being 22 here herself because of this other meeting that is 23 taking place, she couldn't. She asked me to convey her 24 greetings to you. And also to Bill MacKinnon, who is 25 the Provincial President of the P.E.I. Division of StenoTran 214 1 CUPE, of which I am the Executive Member and he is out 2 of province. 3 994 Basically, what I want to talk to you 4 about, many of the issues probably have come up earlier 5 this evening and earlier this afternoon and probably 6 will continue to be so, but we wanted to really 7 emphasize the fact that public broadcasting is very 8 important and vital to all Canadians, and in particular 9 Canadians who live in regions such as Prince Edward 10 Island. 11 995 It is something that is critical for 12 us to have our own voice, to have our own programs and 13 to have a means to talk to each other and to have our 14 cultural identity and our local voices heard. And, 15 unfortunately, that is not the trend that has been 16 happening most recently. 17 996 We are aware, for example, of those 18 people within the labour movement itself and have 19 observed in many other sectors where deregulation has 20 taken place, or where in fact, for example, in Atlantic 21 Canada we have seen the dismemberment of something like 22 Via Rail as a transportation agency. That was done 23 very gradually, gradual cuts to our transportation 24 system which linked us to other parts of Canada, and in 25 a much different way the CBC does link us from coast to StenoTran 215 1 coast and in much the same way we do see some of these 2 incremental cuts or cuts that are continually being 3 made that are actually cutting off our voices that are 4 meant to be heard. We find that the same sort of route 5 is taking place. 6 997 Obviously, since 1993, since the last 7 federal election and at that point in time the Liberals 8 in the election campaign promised stable funding. We 9 know since that point in time that the CBC has been cut 10 by $400 million or 33 per cent, which is an astounding 11 number, considering in fact that that promise had been 12 made and the promise has been broken. That has made a 13 very large difference in CBC staff cuts. In 14 Charlottetown we have some local programs which have 15 been cut by more than 50 per cent in terms of the staff 16 that are carrying out those programs. 17 998 The Premier has recently indicated a 18 number of programs that used to take place, that were 19 made locally and that aren't made any longer. We know 20 that the cuts not only in staffing, but even the number 21 of staff that are remaining have a much larger burden 22 in trying to preserve the quality of programming. I 23 want to commend them for their real commitment to 24 trying to do that under very difficult circumstances. 25 999 We do know that in the previous StenoTran 216 1 negotiations of the CEP workers they did make some 2 efforts to try to work with the Corporation, even in 3 the era of budget cuts, in trying to preserve 4 programming. 5 1000 However, at this point in time it 6 looks like their efforts in trying to do that, in 7 trying to look out for Canadians and trying to preserve 8 programming is not being recognized whatsoever by the 9 Corporation. 10 1001 We do know that in fact other cuts 11 are taking place. For example, the cuts to the 12 Canadian Television Fund, which Ottawa's rules have 13 changed and which the CBC formerly got $100 million or 14 50 per cent of that fund. Now there are some new 15 hidden cuts for the CBC totalling an additional $34 16 million. 17 1002 We do know that there are many 18 privatization forces out there. We have heard recently 19 in the news of one private corporation that does want 20 to get -- who are actually very actively lobbying for a 21 greater reduction in the public services and public 22 programs provided by both CBC radio and television 23 because they want to enter that. 24 1003 In Charlottetown, and in P.E.I. as a 25 whole, we have not been well served by private StenoTran 217 1 broadcasters. I will give you two indications of that, 2 both daily newspapers on Prince Edward Island are owned 3 by one group, Conrad Black. We do know as well, 4 though, that, for example, the three private stations 5 in Charlottetown are all now owned by the same 6 communications group and within that agency the on-air 7 voices have been severely diminished. 8 1004 We know that there have been cutbacks 9 within their news departments as well. The only 10 departments in those private radio stations that have 11 actually held on or maybe even increased have been 12 their ad departments. Yet much of that local 13 programming that takes place within those private radio 14 stations hasn't reflected regional voices because many 15 of the programming that is taken place is taking place 16 outside of Prince Edward Island. 17 1005 So now, more than ever, we need a 18 public voice that is strong and that reflects our 19 voices. 20 1006 I want to give you an example of I 21 think the passion or the need and people's response to 22 it. Myself, along with two other people, less than two 23 years ago were very concerned about what was happening 24 with cutbacks at the CBC. We were involved with a 25 campaign which was part of a national campaign called StenoTran 218 1 "CBC, Ours to Keep" campaign. 2 1007 In starting out with three people, 3 with no resources, within a two-week period with the 4 assistance of many other people who came on board, we 5 were able to produce a three and a half hour show of 6 entertainers and musicians from one end of this Island 7 to the other, and who were all there very much to 8 support the CBC because they knew how much it meant to 9 them. 10 1008 I could mention to you many 11 performers on P.E.I., such as Paul Bernard, a classical 12 musician who also belongs to the group Este Mundo, 13 Lenny Gallant, who feel very strongly and passionately 14 that without the CBC their voices would not have been 15 heard on a national basis. 16 1009 As well, we do know as well that it 17 is very important that if their voices aren't heard 18 then we are actually undermining our own culture and 19 our own ability to tell our own stories. 20 1010 I think it is very important that the 21 CBC -- the feeling of the people who came to this 22 event, we had well over 200 people attend. We had 23 about 15 acts. We had a number of speakers who spoke 24 for many different organizations who all came together 25 to say CBC is ours. It was extraordinary because this StenoTran 219 1 all happened within less than a two-week period with 2 absolutely no dollars whatsoever to support it. 3 1011 The clear message there was that the 4 CBC had been there for these people, these artists, 5 these musicians, voices in terms of getting stories out 6 and in terms of getting news out about our Island, and 7 it was very important to preserve that voice. Right 8 now it seems that with the strike that is taking place, 9 with the apparent lack of commitment on behalf of the 10 board of directors of the CBC to really push for 11 stronger or increased funding, that in fact local and 12 regional programming is being threatened, and there is 13 actually a move afoot to have more centralized radio 14 and TV news and radio and TV coverage. We see as an 15 example the local afternoon show "Main Street", where 16 in fact the local content within it has been severely 17 diminished. 18 1012 There are also many other cuts that 19 are also taking place. So, I think right now there is 20 a very strong -- the only way we can preserve our voice 21 is sort of a strong public voice, both radio and 22 television, both in entertainment or culture and as 23 well within news in order to make sure that our stories 24 are told and our voices are heard, both locally and 25 nationally. Unfortunately, what has been happening is StenoTran 220 1 the fact that we have seen a very slow decline, in the 2 same way that other things have been cut back of the 3 CBC's ability to do that. 4 1013 I would ask the CRTC, respectfully, 5 to encourage the federal government and encourage the 6 present government to make sure that the CBC is given 7 the resources that it needs to fulfil that mandate and, 8 as well, that in fact the atmosphere that we are trying 9 to maintain of our public voice is the fact that other 10 private broadcasters seem to be the ones that are 11 eroding our ability to put out voices. They are doing 12 it for a profit motive, but at the same time as well we 13 noticed within our own market here that more money has 14 been put in trying to recruit advertising for other 15 types of programs on P.E.I., yet news departments and 16 other on-air programs have been severely diminished. 17 1014 So, that's a very clear example of 18 where we see the private sector isn't really fulfilling 19 our needs on P.E.I. We also know as well that other 20 television networks other than the CBC haven't played 21 any strong role in trying to preserve our stories at 22 this point in time. 23 1015 So, the CBC is very vital for that 24 purpose. I would like to urge as well that the CBC 25 itself as an institution, that the board members, who StenoTran 221 1 are appointed by the Prime Minister, that in fact 2 perhaps other means can be had so that those people who 3 are there appointed to the CBC, and there are a number 4 of people there, for example, that people have had 5 critiques about, whether it be John Campion who last 6 year co-Chaired a Liberal Party of Canada golfing 7 fundraiser, or the Montreal lawyer Roy Heenan who long 8 acted as the CBC's labour advisor and whose firm has 9 been representing the broadcaster during the current 10 labour fight, that those people on the CBC board don't 11 really represent the people that we need to represent 12 the CBC in terms of what Canadians want it to be. 13 1016 So, I think it is very important to 14 send that message, that in fact the CBC needs to 15 maintain its leadership role in hearing Canadians' 16 voices from coast to coast to coast -- 17 1017 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir, you 18 have reached your 10 minutes. 19 1855 20 1018 MR. CHEVERIE: Thank you very much. 21 --- Pause / Pause 22 1019 MR. STEWART: With your permission, 23 Madame la Présidente, I will ask the next speaker to 24 make his presentation and that Dr. Phillip Smith. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 222 1 1020 DR. SMITH: Good evening. My name is 2 Phillip Smith and I am the Dean of Arts at the 3 University of Prince Edward Island. I appreciate the 4 opportunity to join with many others in speaking of the 5 vital importance of a strong and effective public 6 broadcaster to Canada and particularly to Prince Edward 7 Island. 8 1021 The mission of a university and the 9 mission of public broadcasting are, of course, 10 importantly different, but they do share features in 11 common. Like the university, the Canadian Broadcasting 12 Corporation assists people in acquiring the knowledge 13 and understanding necessary for critical and creative 14 thinking and thus preparing them to contribute to their 15 own betterment and that of the society in which we 16 live. 17 1022 Like the university, the CBC enhances 18 the prospects for a civil society, through enhancing 19 Canadian's understandings of each other, of the broader 20 world in which we exist and of the particular 21 communities of which we are a part. 22 1023 For these and other reasons there 23 exists a natural affinity for CBC by many people at the 24 University of Prince Edward Island. With that affinity 25 comes perhaps a sense of some ownership and a StenoTran 223 1 recognition of our right and responsibility to hold the 2 CBC to a high standard of performance for its extremely 3 important role in our country and our province. 4 1024 There is much that could be said, as 5 you are hearing from many individuals and groups making 6 submissions to you, and rather than try to be 7 comprehensive I will focus on three specific points. 8 First, the role of the local CBC in the public life of 9 Prince Edward Island is perhaps unique in the country. 10 1025 We have a need here for detailed 11 information, inquiry, dialogue and investigation about 12 our provincial institutions, including, but not limited 13 to government because of our provincial status. That 14 need will never be adequately addressed by regional 15 news and public affairs programming based in Halifax, 16 let alone nationally. 17 1026 The current labour dispute and its 18 consequent elimination of almost all Prince Edward 19 Island presence on the CBC has made this abundantly 20 clear. 21 1027 The public broadcaster is necessary 22 to enable an informed citizenry so that government and 23 other public institutions are accountable. It may be 24 that citizens of larger jurisdictions have access to 25 adequate coverage of local news and current affairs for StenoTran 224 1 the private sector. I am not convinced of that, but 2 perhaps it is the case. It is certainly the case that 3 here on Prince Edward Island the public broadcaster 4 makes an important difference to the quality of our 5 democracy. 6 1028 Second, many in the CBC recognize 7 that reflecting Canadians to ourselves must engage not 8 only political but also our cultural selves. The 9 opportunity to enrich the cultural life of Prince 10 Edward Island is an important one for the CBC. This 11 opportunity is diminished when, for example, the format 12 of the supper hour radio program changes from one 13 essentially entirely locally produced, with substantial 14 attention to the creative and performing arts, to one 15 with substantial air time given over to pieces produced 16 elsewhere, presumably so that local costs across the 17 country can be reduced. 18 1029 I recognize the importance of 19 Canadians having an opportunity to learn of local 20 experiences of Canadians elsewhere. The balance must 21 be an appropriate one. And surely the previous balance 22 of a morning show and two locally produced hours in the 23 afternoon, five out of seven days a week, was not 24 excessively weighted to local programming. 25 1030 Third, the CBC's responsibility to StenoTran 225 1 bring information and perspectives about the global 2 community to Canadians is both essential and under 3 siege. How embarrassing it must have been for the CBC 4 to announce a few weeks ago the closure of three 5 international bureaus. 6 1031 The closure of the Paris bureau, when 7 Canadians must learn as much as we can about a country 8 of such social, cultural and economic significance to 9 Quebec and Canada, how bizarre to close up shop. 10 1032 How embarrassing it must have been to 11 announce the same day the closure of the Mexico City 12 bureau at a time of NAFTA, globalization and cultural 13 linkages. 14 1033 Yes, in the age of multiple channels 15 there are multiple opportunities to access U.S. 16 information about world affairs, but are we to be left 17 to an Americanized version of all that happens outside 18 of our borders? Surely not. 19 1034 So, even in these three brief points 20 I emphasize the vital significance of what the CBC 21 contributes and I say that we require more. Without 22 having details of internal budgeting I cannot be sure 23 that there is no waste or fat in the CBC, but I find it 24 hard to imagine that funding cuts of the magnitude 25 suffered in recent years can allow programming StenoTran 226 1 excellence to be maintained and grow. 2 1035 While recognizing that the CRTC does 3 not control CBC budgeting allocations, I do urge you to 4 communicate to the federal government the vital 5 significance of an adequately funded CBC. 6 1036 Thank you. 7 1037 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 8 Thank you. 9 1900 10 1038 MR. STEWART: The next speaker or 11 presenter is a representative of the P.E.I. Federation 12 of Labour. I would ask that that person identify 13 himself or herself. 14 1039 Thank you. 15 1040 It would appear that Mr. Cheverie 16 spoke on behalf of that organization. 17 1041 I now call upon Ms Jennifer Shields 18 to make her presentation. 19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 20 1042 MS SHIELDS: Good evening. My name 21 is Jennifer Shields and I live near Emerydale. I would 22 like to thank you for this opportunity to speak. Am I 23 close enough to the microphone? Is that good? Too 24 close? 25 1043 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: (Off StenoTran 227 1 microphone/sans microphone) 2 1044 MS SHIELDS: Now, if we had a 3 fireplace. 4 1045 I am an avid CBC radio listener. I 5 can't speak to CBC-TV. I actually by choice don't own 6 a television, but I am an avid CBC radio listener and 7 my presentation will focus on CBC One and CBC Two. 8 1046 I think that, yes -- 9 1047 A SPEAKER: We cannot hear you. 10 1048 MS SHIELDS: You cannot hear. 11 1049 MR. STEWART: Perhaps if you could 12 get closer to the microphone and, if possible, speak 13 more into the microphone. 14 1050 MS SHIELDS: Is that better? Yes. 15 Okay. That's my soft Irish voice. That's better. 16 1051 I was saying that I am an avid CBC 17 radio listener and I can't speak to CBC television. By 18 choice I don't own a television, but I listen to CBC 19 radio, both Radio One and Radio Two, and that's what my 20 presentation will focus on. 21 1052 I think that CBC radio has a vital 22 role to play at both the national and the local level, 23 and I think governments are incredibly shortsighted in 24 not realizing that. 25 1053 To the Canadian government, if they StenoTran 228 1 were here, I would say restore the funding to the CBC. 2 To the CRTC, I know the focus tonight is on the CBC 3 mandate and where it fits in Canadian life and there is 4 a number of points I would like to make. 5 1054 The first one is that I think it is 6 the only radio station that broadcasts from coast to 7 coast, and for that reason it is in a very unique 8 position. It has the ability to reach all Canadians in 9 English and French and I want to hear about other parts 10 of Canada. I think it is critical indeed that we are 11 informed of issues all across this country. 12 1055 I want to hear about the farm crisis 13 in Saskatchewan. I want to hear about the creation of 14 Nunavut, the logging and development controversies in 15 British Columbia and any other controversy in British 16 Columbia that happens to be going on. No other better 17 vehicle for that than the national public broadcaster. 18 1056 I think CBC is a force for good for 19 the health of this nation. 20 1057 The second point I would like to make 21 is that I truly appreciate quality programming 22 available on CBC radio. I don't think it exists on 23 commercial radio, and I am speaking about Radio Two and 24 Radio One. When I think about programs like "Ideas" 25 and "As It Happens" there is nothing comparable StenoTran 229 1 available anywhere else. 2 1058 As an aside, I would like to urge 3 that there be a stop in the repeats and reruns on CBC 4 radio. It think it is demeaning and unnecessary. 5 1059 The third point that I would like to 6 make, I think the CBC has a very vital role to play 7 regionally and at the local level. I think programs 8 like "Maritime Noon" at the regional level and our 9 morning and evening local shows are very, very 10 important to the local community. They bring us 11 current local events, issues, all kinds of details 12 about our cultural life here and without it, without 13 CBC radio I think there is a yawning gap in what 14 information we receive. 15 1060 I think we are experiencing some of 16 that right now with this strike. I know that is not 17 the issue here, but I wish them well in resolving it. 18 I would like to say I am just appalled that they have 19 been crippled by these funding problems which has 20 brought about this strike no doubt. 21 1061 You could argue that I could get my 22 local news from a commercial radio station and I would 23 argue back that what I would get would be two minutes 24 of truncated news amid a barrage of advertising and 25 loud music that I don't like to listen to. And as a StenoTran 230 1 further aside, please no, no, no to advertising on CBC 2 radio. 3 1062 In summary, I would like to say that 4 I and many Canadians go through my day with CBC radio, 5 One and Two. I always start the day with "The Morning 6 Show". I listen to the national news. I am a person 7 who drives in my work, so I am in and out of my car all 8 day long. I listen in my car. I listen to the driving 9 home show. I often make dinner to "As It Happens". 10 It's part of my life. It makes me connected to this 11 community and to the maritimes and to this country. 12 1063 I think we need the CBC. I think it 13 should be kept vibrant. I think it needs to be present 14 at the local, regional and national level. 15 1064 As a preacher's kid I would quote a 16 hymn and say I think it is the tie that binds this 17 community, this region and, most important of all, all 18 of us as Canadians. 19 1065 Thank you for this opportunity. 20 --- Applause / Applaudissements 21 1066 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 22 Thank you. 23 1905 24 1067 MR. STEWART: I would now like to 25 invite Ms Mary Boyd to make a presentation. StenoTran 231 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 1068 MS BOYD: Thank you, Mr. Chairperson. 3 1069 I am going to start by apologizing 4 because I am going to be jumping from one set of notes 5 to another. I didn't manage to have enough time in the 6 day to get everything into one organized situation, and 7 whatever I say in my presentation in my remarks I want 8 to say that I fully understand the role of the CRTC. 9 If I sound critical in any way it is not at the CRTC at 10 all. I very much appreciate what you are trying to do 11 and your role. 12 1070 In trying to respond to some of the 13 questions that you have asked us about how well does 14 the CBC fulfil its role as a national broadcaster, 15 under the circumstances I say very well, except that I 16 do regret some of the difficulties the CBC faces 17 because of the number of cuts. I will say, quite 18 frankly, that it fulfils its role much better than any 19 broadcaster in the private sectors. One of its great 20 marks is quality. 21 1071 I am also among the people who would 22 say that the CBC is unique. I think that one of the 23 reasons that we appreciate the CBC is that through its 24 public character we feel that we can often rely on its 25 information in a way that we cannot when there are StenoTran 232 1 vested interests that are often less than objective. 2 1072 As far as looking at the new 3 millennium, I would hope that the CBC will be 4 strengthened, not weakened, that it will be even more 5 accessible to Canadians. Also, that the high quality 6 that has become its characteristic will improve and 7 that its nature will be broadened, that its programs, 8 its work will be broadened throughout the Canadian 9 community, not limited. That it will truly become a 10 people's broadcaster. It is that now and it is 11 recognized, but I don't think the people of Canada 12 understand well, and even I think some people in the 13 CBC, the nature of a truly public institution. That it 14 really does belong to the people. That by being public 15 it is accessible and in some ways one could almost say 16 accessible, we expect the CBC and its services in much 17 the way that we expect the accessibility in our health 18 care system. 19 1073 But not just broadcasting for 20 Canadians or from a Canadian perspective. We also want 21 the CBC to reach out to the globe and to be able to 22 encounter the people of the globe and help us to better 23 understand the reality of people's lives, but in the 24 new millennium to really put people first in every 25 sense of the word, which is something we cannot rely on StenoTran 233 1 the private sector to do and to keep working for 2 equality, and for the kind of social justice that is so 3 important in our society. 4 1074 As a public broadcaster, the CBC has 5 given Canadians a measure of equal access which in turn 6 helps us to know each other better. This is so 7 important, but we still have a long way to go in 8 achieving this kind of understanding in this vast 9 country. 10 1075 It has helped to improve our 11 knowledge of important economic, cultural and political 12 issues and I think of its strong, strong presence in 13 current affairs. There was a time, thanks to the CBC, 14 when Canadians were considered to be the most literate 15 people in the world. Cutbacks, you know -- I regret 16 the fact that we have lost some of those programs that 17 have contributed to that and I really, really urge that 18 we get the funding to restore those because it is quite 19 a wonderful thing to live in a country where you can 20 have that kind of public access. 21 1076 It makes us more sophisticated as a 22 people, but not only that, it makes us more 23 self-assured in many ways and empowers us to do more. 24 1077 As far as looking at the CBC and how 25 it serves the region and the national level, I think StenoTran 234 1 that the local service is extremely important. I 2 really make a plea, as many people have, not to cut 3 back on our local services. We need the CBC, 4 television and radio services, in Prince Edward Island. 5 We need them for many, many reasons and we don't have 6 enough services. 7 1078 You have heard already the regrets of 8 people about cutbacks and we ask that we strengthen 9 those local services because with fewer programs and 10 less coverage it is a lot more difficult. 11 1079 The local programming that exists is 12 very good. It is a high quality and the fact that -- I 13 don't think it could be replaced. It would be a 14 terrific loss -- a terrific blow to this community if 15 it was withdrawn. 16 1080 Again, if I look at the regional 17 programs, I also appreciate them very much because it 18 is very good to know our neighbours in the neighbouring 19 provinces and we share a lot in common. I think the 20 role of the CBC in encouraging the arts in this region 21 has been extremely important. My father was the first 22 Scottish fiddler in Canada to make records and I have 23 to say that it is with great pride that I watch our 24 artists, whether it's P.E.I. or Cape Breton fiddlers, 25 now not only becoming renowned nationally, but also StenoTran 235 1 internationally. 2 1081 And all of this is part of our fight, 3 as others have mentioned, to protect our culture and to 4 protect us against the rapid push of Americanization. 5 The CBC is so important in that whole area of us 6 knowing who we are as Canadians and keeping our 7 identity. But sad to say a lot of the arts programs 8 are gone. They are basically gone and there was a time 9 when I served on the Religious Advisory Committee of 10 the CBC and I very much regret that we really do not 11 have religious programming any more because of 12 cutbacks. 13 1082 Is the CBC different from other 14 broadcasters? Yes, it is. As I mentioned, 15 accessibility, and I think that offering opportunities 16 is so important. I think that the CBC does need to 17 protect Canadian culture and celebrate more who we are, 18 enrich one another's -- enrich us in many ways. 19 1083 I think that the CBC does have a 20 special role to play in the presentation of Canadian 21 programming. I agree with that very much, to encourage 22 and to incubate Canadian content, whether it's films, 23 whether it's cultural events, whether it is the various 24 ways we express our values as Canadians and our 25 culture, the things that bind us together, and I too StenoTran 236 1 feel that advertising is a vexation for us on the CBC 2 when we are watching it. 3 1084 Another thing -- as people living in 4 this region we have been cut off. We feel isolated in 5 many ways and the CBC is extremely important. We 6 suffer a lot from the centralization of this country 7 and that, in fact, Canada is usually defined as 8 somewhere in that triangle from Ottawa to Toronto and 9 to Montreal. 10 1085 So, anything that encourages that 11 kind of centralization won't do. If we want to build 12 something strong and build a strong country, we need to 13 start from the base and build up, not have a top-down 14 situation. But cuts to the CBC are forcing the reverse 15 and the danger of everything coming from the top and no 16 voice at the base at all. 17 1086 The cuts have been drastic and, in 18 many cases, one staff person is doing the job of two or 19 three people. This is deplorable in a country with our 20 resources and surpluses now in our budget, wherever 21 they are supposed to be going. 22 1087 There hasn't been an increase in 23 about eight years in CBC funding. You know, even the 24 inflation rate seems to be too much for our government 25 at this point. It is no way to treat an important and StenoTran 237 1 vital institution in our country. 2 1088 People in the CBC and in the public 3 have every right to be unhappy about the situation now 4 and the way they are being treated. 5 1089 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, madam, you 6 have reached the 10-minute market. If you would be 7 good enough to conclude. 8 1090 MS BOYD: One sentence, please. What 9 I want to say is it's frightening to think that we 10 might have some new czar in Ottawa who is really under 11 the control of the federal government, that it looks as 12 if the CBC's future has become very political. We have 13 to keep it at arm's length to have the independence it 14 needs to be objective. 15 1091 So, please don't close down the local 16 or regional CBC outlets. Please don't allow any more 17 cutbacks. Let's restore the funding. The CBC is a 18 model for broadcasting for others. We need that 19 standard. We will be very impoverished without it. 20 So, please, we ask you to protect the CBC and protect 21 it from further decline and political vengeance. 22 1092 Thank you. 23 1915 24 1093 MR. STEWART: I would now like to 25 invite Ms Sandi MacKinnon to make her presentation. StenoTran 238 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 1094 MS MacKINNON: We have the 3 opportunity to be here tonight. I have some remarks 4 that I have prepared. 5 1095 This is both an opportune time and an 6 ambivalent time for the CRTC to be holding hearings on 7 the mandate of the CBC. The hearings certainly provide 8 a forum for people to voice their concern about the 9 future of the CBC. The current strike may be just 10 giving us a forecast of what is going to happen to 11 local and regional broadcasting in the not too distant 12 future. 13 1096 No doubt the Commission will hear 14 things and have heard things from intervenors that are 15 outside the jurisdiction of the CRTC. And no doubt 16 anything that will be said here today has been said by 17 other people throughout the country. Hopefully, by the 18 end of these hearings, the CRTC will have received a 19 clear message that the CBC is a national treasure to be 20 valued and protected. 21 1097 I believe that it is one of the 22 foundation blocks of our country. It allows us to 23 learn more about ourselves and about each other. A CBC 24 with a strong mandate to provide local, regional, 25 national and international information and to promote StenoTran 239 1 Canadian culture is vital if we are going to have any 2 hope of maintaining a Canadian identity and our 3 sovereignty as a nation. 4 1098 I cannot speak about CBC television, 5 as I gave it up about 15 years ago. I am a CBC radio 6 listener and so it is to this area that I will direct 7 the majority of my comments. 8 1099 Anyone who is a listener of CBC radio 9 has a personal relationship with the CBC. I would like 10 to take just a few moments to describe mine. I began 11 listening to CBC radio when I lived in the middle of 12 the Gulf of St. Lawrence on the Magdalen Islands back 13 in 1981. 14 1100 CBC was my lifeline to the rest of 15 the world. I was a stay-at-home mom and listened to 16 the radio in the daytime when my kids were up and in 17 the evening when they had gone to bed. Given that 18 everyone and everything in my immediate world was 19 French, and being an anglophone myself, listening to 20 CBC was often like having a friend drop by for a chat. 21 I can honestly say that I have felt a friendship with 22 Fireside Al, Barbara Frum, Peter Gzowski, even thought 23 I have never met any of them. 24 1101 My children have grown up listening 25 to CBC. The sports scores are important to them, the StenoTran 240 1 music, using their words, "sucks" but many a discussion 2 in our home has come about as a result of something we 3 heard on CBC radio. CBC is the only television station 4 in our home and so even though my children are watching 5 TV, I have some assurance that they are probably 6 watching some of the best television that is available. 7 1102 My relationship with CBC eventually 8 grew from that of listener to that of broadcaster. 9 From those years of being at home with my children and 10 listening to CBC radio I decided that one day I would 11 like to be a radio broadcaster myself and work at CBC. 12 1103 In 1990, I went to CBC Charlottetown 13 for an on-the-job training as part of a journalism 14 course I was taking through the local community 15 college. I spent the next four years working there as 16 a casual worker and a freelancer. No chance of getting 17 a job because 1990 marked the beginning of the first 18 rounds of severe cuts to the CBC and perhaps the 19 beginning of the end. 20 1104 The CBC, like many other employers, 21 including other provincial and federal government 22 agencies, have found ways to get around collective 23 agreements negotiated by the unions, through the use of 24 casual employees. There are people who have worked 25 steadily at the CBC for years as casual employees with StenoTran 241 1 no benefits, no security. It was one of the reasons I 2 opted out after four years. 3 1105 What I loved most about working at 4 CBC was the getting out and meeting people, finding out 5 what was going on in the community and bringing those 6 stories and voices to the air. There is a lot less of 7 that happening now. Cutbacks have compromised the 8 quality of programming. There are fewer 9 writer/broadcasters to go out into the communities. 10 Many interviews and stories are gathered over the phone 11 lines. There are fewer documentaries, fewer foreign 12 bureaus and programming in general has suffered. 13 1106 In 1990 there was a team of five 14 people who worked together to produce "Main Street", 15 the two hour afternoon show here in Charlottetown. 16 This show had a cultural focus reporting on cultural 17 events and the nature of the Island way of life. Each 18 round of cuts saw another person disappear from the 19 team, so that today all that is left is two people to 20 produce two hours of local programming. The afternoon 21 show has lost its distinctive Island flavour and that's 22 because half of the items that are now aired are coming 23 from Edmonton, Toronto or Vancouver. So much for local 24 programming. 25 1107 It's not that we don't want to hear StenoTran 242 1 from other regions, but that's why we have national 2 programming such as "This Morning", or regional shows 3 such as "maritime Noon". 4 1108 The cynics say the writing is on the 5 wall and that the demise of local CBC television and 6 radio broadcasting is only a matter of time. For a 7 decade we have wondered when will they cut "Compass", 8 the suppertime news show? When will the afternoon 9 radio show become a regionally based program? 10 1109 Many of the decisions that have been 11 made are painful ones -- 2,000 employees laid off, 12 3,000 employees laid off. I don't know what the 13 official tally is in the number of jobs lost since 14 1990, but it has had its toll not only on those who 15 have had to find new jobs, but for those who have 16 remained. The broadcast standards that the CBC has set 17 are high, but it's difficult to maintain those 18 standards if the resources are not there to do so. 19 1110 I fear that there is not much 20 sympathy for the striking technicians. The scarcity of 21 jobs has created an anti-union sentiment, meaning that 22 if you have a job you should just put up and shut up. 23 But how long will these jobs be out there? This 24 current strike is about protecting what remains of the 25 CBC. Certainly the technicians have a vested interest StenoTran 243 1 in protecting the remaining jobs, but it's not jobs 2 just for the sake of jobs. Further cuts will most 3 likely mean the end of local public radio and 4 television broadcasts. 5 1111 The CBC needs to maintain a strong 6 mandate to continue its role of public broadcaster. 7 More and more, information is the key to the continued 8 growth and vitality of our communities. We need to 9 know about events in Croatia and in Moscow and in 10 Guatemala, but we also need to know what is happening 11 with our neighbours, and we need to know so that we too 12 can become involved. 13 1112 I don't know if this is within the 14 mandate of the CRTC, but I strongly urge you to 15 consider placing conditions on the CBC licence that 16 will ensure that local and regional programming is 17 maintained and protected. It is just as important for 18 us here in Prince Edward Island to know what is going 19 on in our communities as it is for people who live in 20 the Slocan Valley in British Columbia to have access to 21 their communities through public radio. If the CRTC 22 were to place such conditions on the licence then 23 perhaps it would prevent the government from further 24 funding cuts. 25 1113 In the past three weeks I have missed StenoTran 244 1 listening the local radio programs in both the morning 2 and the afternoon. I feel out of touch with what is 3 going on. I guess the greatest benefactor in all of 4 this is probably the local newspaper. I'm sure that 5 their sales have increased since we temporarily lost 6 our local programs. The only positive things that I 7 can really say about this strike is that my 8 appreciation for the local programs has grown and that 9 Islanders are getting a taste of what could be the 10 writing on the wall. 11 1114 Thank you. 12 1920 13 --- Applause / Applaudissements 14 1115 MR. STEWART: Now I would like to 15 invite Ms Ann Sherman to make her presentation. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 1116 MS SHERMAN: Madame Bertrand and Mr. 18 Langford, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you 19 this evening. My name, as you just heard, is Ann 20 Sherman. 21 1117 MR. SHERMAN: And mine is Joseph 22 Sherman. 23 1118 MS SHERMAN: We live here together in 24 Charlottetown, where Joe works as the editor of Arts 25 Atlantic magazine and I work as Executive Director of StenoTran 245 1 Community Legal Information Association. We would like 2 to make a joint presentation in support of the mandate 3 and of the renewal of the CBC's licence. 4 1119 MR. SHERMAN: This will speak to what 5 has been and what barely is and with a view to what 6 must be maintained, revitalized and reinvented. The 7 following comments apply exclusively to CBC radio. We 8 too haven't owned a television set, in our case for 9 eight years. 10 1120 I can declare that for approximately 11 22 years there was no time in my life for the CBC, 12 particularly for radio and whether it existed or not 13 did not concern me. Those were, however, the first 22 14 years of my life, first in Cape Breton and then in 15 Fredericton. 16 1121 Everything shifted with my joining a 17 university radio station. Radio UNB was an unofficial 18 farm team for the CBC. A number of my pals wound up as 19 long-term CBC employees and I myself thought seriously 20 of joining the corps. 21 1122 MS SHERMAN: When I came to Canada 22 from the U.K. in 1969, CBC informed and educated me 23 about my new home. To some extent it also swaged 24 loneliness and homesickness and I too found myself in a 25 French part of the country where CBC became my intimate StenoTran 246 1 circle, my family while I made friends locally. 2 1123 MR. SHERMAN: It's no exaggeration to 3 say that CBC radio has been a constant for both of us 4 since we moved to Edmundston, New Brunswick in 1970. I 5 began the first of my nine teaching years in 6 northwestern New Brunswick. 7 1124 MS SHERMAN: And I settled in to be 8 sometimes employed outside the home, mostly a working 9 inside the home mom, linked to the rest of Canada and 10 to the rest of the world by the CBC. 11 1125 MR. SHERMAN: Up there we hoped to 12 pull in the signal bounced from Fredericton via the 13 LPRT with the news and weather affecting us. In that 14 time we both did some freelance work for CBC radio. My 15 wife doing the more regular reporting, not so much for 16 the pay, but because we wanted to be a part of what we 17 intuited to be an exciting, intelligent activity that 18 happened to be public radio. 19 1126 MS SHERMAN: We have lived on P.E.I. 20 for nearly two decades now and I suppose our biggest 21 single complaint about the CBC, even with the cutbacks, 22 is that we rarely get to listen to our collection of 23 music. We're too busy listening to the radio and we 24 can't bear to switch it off. 25 1127 MR. SHERMAN: In fact, I measure the StenoTran 247 1 success of CBC radio by the realization a few years ago 2 that when Jeff Pevere's "Prime Time" was on in the 3 evening I found myself unable to leave my car to attend 4 a meeting because what I was hearing was that gripping. 5 That's the best of it, intelligent, entertaining, 6 gripping programming that isn't soporific, but a 7 stimulant. 8 1128 Nor are the people who have delivered 9 the best CBC broadcasting ordinary broadcasters. The 10 finest have been distinctive, even idiosyncratic. How 11 can we not feel affection for a network that programs 12 the musical meanderings of sprightly octogenarians and 13 septuagenarians like the late Clive Gilmour and the 14 still vital Max Ferguson, announcers like the two Al's, 15 MacFee and Maitland, superbly textured the many 16 programs for which they polled oar. 17 1129 We bought into the institutions of 18 Gzowski and Frum, the candy emporiums of Jack Farr and 19 Danny Finkleman, of the aforementioned Jeff Pevere. 20 Voices and minds that engage us yet are those of Lister 21 Sinclair, Sheila Rogers, Marjorie Doyle, Ian Brown and 22 Kostas Salibrasos. 23 1130 But none of this serves us 24 comprehensively without the CBC's regional component. 25 Once we became householders with jobs it became StenoTran 248 1 mandatory. Besides "Information Morning", which is our 2 lodestone for P.E.I. life and activity, "Radio Noon" 3 out of Halifax connects us with the well-phrased 4 realities of the region. Even the market reports have 5 become reassuring. Four to 6:00 p.m. programming has 6 been at its best when the flavour of its music and 7 stories is that of our community. 8 1131 MS SHERMAN: The morning, noon and 9 afternoon programs offer not only news and information, 10 but also those interesting and idiosyncratic takes on 11 matters of local import and local institutions. 12 1132 I hesitate to mention this in public, 13 but one measure of how I value CBC radio is that I talk 14 back to it. Sometimes in hostile in hostile 15 disagreement, sometimes in enthusiastic support. 16 Irrespective, I'm engaged and I'm involved. So are the 17 others, to judge by the response to talk back lines. 18 The calls I heard go a long way towards expanding that 19 dialogue that I have with my radio. 20 1133 The people who work at CBC have 21 become respected friends through our daily contact over 22 the airwaves. Wayne Collins, Karen Mair and Matthew 23 Rainnie are voices that accompany us to work in the 24 morning and drive us home at night. 25 1134 Our other friends are the producers, StenoTran 249 1 writers and researchers who bring our local programs to 2 life. They all do the best they can with limited 3 resources and more and more constraints. 4 1135 MR. SHERMAN: There is a small bias. 5 Both of us have appeared on P.E.I.'s "Main Street" over 6 the years, again not for the money, but for the 7 informed, passionate involvement, but also, frankly, 8 because CBC allows us to reach an audience. When it's 9 on the air, P.E.I.'s "Main Street" has an impressive 10 share of the listening audience. 11 1136 MS SHERMAN: Our radio goes on in the 12 morning. It stays on. Ditto for our car. Despite the 13 lacerating cutbacks which have produced far too much 14 program repetition, it stays on. Despite the lamented 15 loss of much literary and artistic programming, it 16 stays on. Through the current strike it stays on most 17 of the time, but we get to listen to some music now, 18 even as we complain and even as we are saddened by the 19 situation. 20 1137 We have watched an organization with 21 high morale and oodles of creativity slide into 22 despond. We have observed compromise after compromise 23 at management levels that have sucked marrow from CBC 24 radio. 25 1138 MR. SHERMAN: I cannot help but StenoTran 250 1 suspect a blisteringly flawed political agenda on the 2 part of government and those who determine what the 3 CBC's future holds. It is a cynical, unimaginative 4 non-vision, completely at odds with the original 5 mandate and supported as we are, I can see the end of 6 public broadcasting if only because the constant 7 cutbacks mean that there is nothing to attract new 8 listeners or command the loyalties of all but the most 9 committed. Attrition alone will do its rotten work 10 despite the best efforts of those left behind. 11 1139 How emblematic that an early excision 12 was a program called "The Media File", a thorough and 13 thoroughly fascinating show that examined the modus 14 operandi and ethnical stance of all media, including 15 the CBC itself. 16 1140 MS SHERMAN: We have no patience for 17 those who recommend dismantling CBC radio. They 18 presumably love commercials and shallow broadcasting 19 and they will never be friends of ours. They are 20 welcome to the exercise of their free choice, but we 21 insist on having ours too and, as taxpayers, we speak 22 for the public's need of CBC radio. 23 1141 MR. SHERMAN: When people speak of 24 the CBC as toothless or redundant they ignore the fact 25 that the CBC doesn't just provide of myriad of voices StenoTran 251 1 representing Canadian culture. The programming is 2 simply better, a qualitative leap of light years from 3 the competition, so-called competition, at least where 4 we live. I cringe at the thought of our several 5 options. 6 1142 MS SHERMAN: Over the past couple of 7 years I have become used to listening to the overnight 8 programming. It's almost worth staying awake to catch 9 the latest news from overseas, Papua, New Guinea, 10 Australia, Germany, various African countries and for 11 me the BBC, of course. This service provides the means 12 to expand our minds and knowledge beyond our dear, safe 13 and isolated little island, but CBC cannot replace the 14 dynamic creativity it has demonstrated in past years by 15 relying on overseas imports and repeat broadcasts to 16 fill empty air. 17 1143 A dynamic and effective democracy is 18 dependent on an informed and involved citizenry. CBC 19 is one important means of achieving this end. Civics 20 is no longer taught in our schools. Relatively few of 21 our school children learn much of geography, history or 22 world politics. The CBC has the potential to increase 23 their world view. 24 1144 I fully support efforts to develop 25 programming for Canada's youth and I believe the StenoTran 252 1 Corporation is crucial. Its licence deserves to be 2 renewed and the government must be held accountable for 3 giving the CBC what it needs to continue to provide 4 excellent national, local, regional broadcasting. 5 1145 MR. SHERMAN: This is an old story. 6 A miserly carter decides one day that he is spending 7 far too much on fodder for his ancient cart horse, so 8 he cuts the animal's hay ration back by one quarter. 9 At the end of a week the horse is still pulling his 10 weight, a little more slowly, and the carter decides to 11 cut the fodder by an additional quarter. 12 1146 A week later the horse is visibly 13 emaciated and even slower, but the older carter reckons 14 that it's worth it to save the money. "I ought to have 15 done this years ago," he gloats. 16 1147 Another portion is cut from the 17 horse's rations. Mid-way through the following way the 18 horse collapses and dies in its traces on the road. 19 The enraged carter leaps from his wagon to kick at the 20 prostate form now still. "Damned horse," froths the 21 carter, "just when I had it almost ready to work on 22 nothing at all it dies on me." 23 1148 MS SHERMAN: I'm beginning to think 24 that the federal government is prepared to kill off the 25 CBC before it dies naturally from the cutbacks being StenoTran 253 1 imposed by those who care nothing for our people and 2 our culture. 3 1149 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, you have 4 reached the 10-minute mark. 5 1150 MS SHERMAN: One paragraph more. 6 1151 MR. SHERMAN: We don't really want to 7 have to rely on our CD collection for entertainment and 8 The Guardian, Globe and Mail and National Post for 9 edification. We would rather have to weigh the options 10 and find that we can turn the dial or switch the radio 11 off without depriving ourselves of something singular 12 and, yes, distinctly Canadian. That's our choice. 13 1152 MS SHERMAN: Thank you. 14 --- Applause / Applaudissements 15 1153 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 16 Thank you very much. 17 1935 18 1154 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Colleen 19 Pidgeon to make her presentation. 20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 21 1155 MS PIDGEON: Good evening. Thanks 22 for having the foresight to come and see us. 23 1156 My remarks are brief. I would just 24 say that in my opinion the CBC in fulfilling its role 25 has done it better than it is doing it at present and StenoTran 254 1 that I feel it needs to make improvement. 2 1157 The background that I have is that as 3 a CBC listener, I was born and raised on it, inasmuch 4 as it was the only thing available as the dependent of 5 an RCAF father and I have listened to the CBC in 6 virtually every part of Canada, all across the country. 7 The only place I can make an exception to is where I 8 was born. I was only there eight days. I don't 9 recall. 10 1158 I am not going to speak as eloquently 11 as the people who have spoken before -- who you have 12 heard today. Furthermore, I did hear a little on the 13 CBC about what you heard in Cape Breton and in Moncton. 14 I just say "hear, hear". 15 1159 My only other thing that I wish to 16 point out is that over the CBC in 1977 I heard about 17 and made a presentation to the Applebaum/Hébert Report. 18 The recommendation I made at that time was to have a 19 new national gallery constructed and I expect nothing 20 less from you. 21 1160 Thank you very much. 22 --- Applause / Applaudissements 23 1161 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 24 You set the bar quite high. Thank you. 25 1162 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: They spent StenoTran 255 1 all the money on the gallery. There's nothing left for 2 anyone else. 3 1163 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Elaine 4 Smith to make her presentation. 5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 6 1164 MS SMITH: Madame Bertrand and Mr. 7 Langford, ladies and gentlemen. I am not representing 8 a group or business. I come as a private citizen, so I 9 am not here to give directives or even strong 10 suggestions, but I hope that my voice will add to 11 themes and perspectives that you have been hearing 12 during this day and earlier days. 13 1165 I wish to speak first about CBC 14 television and then national radio and, thirdly, 15 regional radio. I was going to say "rational" radio 16 and that's not bad too. 17 1166 I come as a friend of the CBC, but 18 also the CBC is my friend. It speaks a language and 19 uses idioms and expresses values that I understand. 20 For example, American television and radio, but 21 particularly television, reminds me of what I am not. 22 When Washington's birthday is presented as a point of 23 reference, I remember that I don't always remember when 24 that is, or when somebody says that I am as American as 25 apple pie, I'm not. StenoTran 256 1 1167 CBC-TV reinforces the person I am and 2 at risk on this Island I would say that I'm a Canadian 3 first and an Islander second. 4 1168 "This Hour Has 22 Minutes", "Royal 5 Canadian Air Farce" tell jokes that I understand. 6 "North of 60" and "Black Harbour" tell stories with 7 which I can identify. 8 1169 CBC-TV gives an opportunity for 9 Canadian talent. I remember so well Kate Reid and what 10 she contributed to our idea of the theatre in this 11 country and now we have Martha MacIsaac and Martha 12 Irving of whom we are proud. 13 1170 I lived in the United States for 20 14 years. Canadian interests and values and idioms don't 15 matter much there. If you and I don't state our 16 Canadianness, let me assure you that nobody else will. 17 1171 Canadian TV, CBC-TV, makes a media 18 statement of who we are. It's not enough to say that 19 we are not American. That doesn't really say much. We 20 need to say that we are Canadian and I believe that 21 that statement will be even more important as we go 22 into the next century. 23 1172 CBC radio though, as so many people 24 have said, is where the bang for the buck is, I 25 believe, in this country. It gives us a national voice StenoTran 257 1 at a time when the trend is towards fractionalization. 2 It emphasizes both our common differences and our 3 common concerns. CBC radio is our friend. 4 1173 When we lose Clive Gilmour, Alan 5 Maitland, Barbara Frum through death we mourn because 6 these people have become part of the fabric of our 7 lives. When Peter Gzowski, Vicki Gabereau, Max 8 Ferguson, Sheila Rogers move from one time slot to the 9 other, we feel disoriented. We lose a friend. 10 1174 I would add to thee comment of one 11 person at least, that many parents stay home during the 12 early months of their child's lives or longer to raise 13 them. And if you move from a professional life to a 14 life within four walls, with children who speak in 15 monosyllables, then CBC becomes a lifeline to news and 16 ideas and arts and no other network provides this. 17 1175 I would say that this had happened to 18 me. "Ideas" and "As It Happens" I spent a summer in 19 the woods in northern New Brunswick and Lister Sinclair 20 became the evening visitor to whom I looked forward 21 most. 22 1176 I would say that if there were no CBC 23 radio I would not listen to radio and I would listen to 24 my private collection of music a lot more. 25 1177 Regional CBC is very important, StenoTran 258 1 particularly on this dear Island. Moncton can't run 2 our cancer clinics. Saint John can't run our 3 educational system and Halifax does not understand our 4 local news. We are a unique community, maybe small, 5 but we are a unique, rich community, where local 6 programming brings us local interest and challenges and 7 informs us. 8 1178 About my telephone I have numbers 9 which are important to me, of the fire department and 10 police and important friends. I also have the number 11 for "Information Morning", "CBC Talk Back" and 12 "Maritime Noon" because when I use those numbers I can 13 become part of the conversation that is generally 14 denied to me -- not being in circles of influence and 15 power and politics -- I can join in the conversation on 16 public policy. 17 1179 Some say our station here in 18 Charlottetown is small. I would say it is, but bigger 19 is not better. P.E.I. is a political entity and CBC 20 Charlottetown is essential. As a friend reminded me 21 over lunch when we were discussing these hearings this 22 evening, if you think small doesn't make a difference, 23 try trying to sleep with a mosquito. 24 1945 25 1180 CBC is my friend. Thank you. StenoTran 259 1 --- Applause / Applaudissements 2 1181 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Peter 3 Baker to make his presentation. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 1182 MR. BAKER: Good evening. I am 6 absolutely delighted to be able to come here and say my 7 piece about the CBC. No one can underestimate the 8 importance and power of the media in our world today, 9 newspaper, radio, TV, film. At times it appears the 10 media is what our lives are about. Instead, the media 11 should be about our lives, culturally, emotionally, 12 informationally. 13 1183 TV and film have the overwhelming 14 power of all media. Used as a vehicle to sell 15 audiences to advertisers, but on a more subtle level 16 used as a tool to show us collectively how to act, what 17 is important and what is not. 18 1184 TV and film are a powerful force in 19 creating a prevalent world culture. Unfortunately, I 20 think we underestimate the usefulness and power of 21 radio. I happen to be a big CBC radio fan. 22 1185 For those who can't afford or perhaps 23 refuse to have TV and a VCR in their homes, radio is 24 the connection to the world beyond our village or 25 neighbourhood, a source of entertainment news and, most StenoTran 260 1 importantly, a way to stay in contact with our own 2 culture. Think of people worldwide who perhaps lack 3 most of what we take for granted in the west, people 4 who can barely feed themselves probably have access to 5 a radio. 6 1186 I remember Radio Free Europe. Tax 7 funded public radio is an intelligent way to encourage 8 free speech. Without CBC free speech is compromised, 9 not only in North America, but I think in the world. 10 1187 There has been quite an erosion of 11 democracy in worthwhile dialogue. I don't think there 12 is really any incentive for political leaders, either 13 in the U.S. or Canada, to promote free speech to 14 support public radio. Political leaders tend to listen 15 to corporate lobbies. There is really no incentive to 16 support free speech. 17 1188 In the U.S. what do listeners get for 18 news coverage? In a wealthy land where poverty, 19 inequality and an eroding standard of living are so 20 prevalent, what we got all last year is nothing more 21 than a sex scandal. This sort of thing is what 22 powerful media corporations see as a way of capturing 23 audiences. The important issues are completely 24 ignored. 25 1189 To paraphrase a contributor to "Cross StenoTran 261 1 Country Checkup", I don't think North America is the 2 world's largest trailer park. I think it just looks 3 that way because of private corporate media 4 predominantly in the U.S., what they see as important. 5 1190 I actually came here from the U.S. in 6 1971 to work on a farm. I was impressed that a North 7 American country actually had an intelligent leader. 8 At the time in the U.S. we had Gerald Ford. I don't 9 think this actually demonstrates my political 10 affiliation, but the Prime Minister at that time was an 11 intelligent man. 12 1191 In the U.S. we do have public radio. 13 We have national public radio, but if you listen 14 carefully to it it's so heavily supported by the 15 corporations I think that it's quite suspect. 16 Actually, some corporations that support NPR in the 17 U.S. I never heard of until I listened to NPR. So we 18 certainly have advertising there. 19 1192 On CBC we have a lot of classical 20 music, on CBC Two. I listen to CBC One also. We have 21 very good jazz programming. A jazz buff I know claims 22 that it's the best in North America, although it 23 doesn't cover a great amount of time. I think at this 24 point in time classical music is almost radical because 25 so many of the commercial stations have gone strictly StenoTran 262 1 to rock. 2 1193 I am very happy about the news 3 coverage on CBC. You can't underestimate the 4 importance of foreign correspondents who get to say 5 their entire piece, rather than just contributing -- 6 just having their piece edited and getting sound bites. 7 1194 I am impressed with the quality of 8 96.1 and 104.7, even with the labour problems, even 9 with the cuts. CBC should be praised for continuing to 10 provide good programming. 11 1195 Those who would cut public 12 broadcasting funding, such as the CBC, I think cut free 13 speech. I think that's pretty well it for my comments. 14 1196 I just wanted to bring up a couple of 15 pieces I heard on the CBC news recently. I wonder how 16 many U.S. citizens realize that their government is 17 being used by a large fruit exporter in their quest to 18 capture the entire world market in bringing a trade 19 action against European banana buyers who support 20 small, independent banana farmers? I doubt very many 21 Americans know about this. On the CBC we got a very 22 good report on this on "The World This Weekend". 23 1197 Also, the situation that is going on 24 with the Olympic Association. For instance, the 25 lottery problem they had here. Media giants depend on StenoTran 263 1 the Olympics to promote their goods. I don't think 2 that making the reporting on problems with the Olympics 3 is of big importance for the U.S. media companies which 4 are giants and can pretty well do as they please. 5 1198 I want to thank the CRTC for holding 6 these hearings, but I wouldn't know about them if I 7 hadn't heard about it on the CBC. 8 1199 Thank you. 9 --- Applause / Applaudissements 10 1950 11 1200 MR. STEWART: I now invite 12 Mr. Richard Carson to make his presentation. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 1201 MR. CARSON: Thank you. 15 1202 I am an old, worn-out schoolteacher. 16 I have been retired for five years and I don't speak 17 for anyone, except perhaps my wife. She censored my 18 remarks, so, therefore, I guess she's probably in on 19 this too. 20 1203 Some years ago my wife and I took a 21 leave of absence for our jobs and moved to The 22 Netherlands for a year. The Netherlands are located 23 such that we had ready access to the broadcasting 24 systems of France and Germany, Belgium, Great Britain 25 and, of course, Holland. After one year of comparing StenoTran 264 1 the radio and TV offerings of these countries, in terms 2 of information broadcasting to the CBC, we longed for a 3 return to Canada to get a balanced view of the 4 happenings of the world. 5 1204 To cite one example, we saw a 6 reference to Canada on only two occasions in an entire 7 year from these five countries and a reference to the 8 United States on not too many more occasions. 9 1205 Canadians need to live in another 10 country for a while to appreciate what we have here. 11 You don't know how good you have got it. You should 12 appreciate it. 13 1206 We felt, and we still feel, that the 14 CBC is far superior in its offerings on radio and TV to 15 any other countries we were exposed to. 16 1207 The mandate of the CBC is, and I 17 think properly so, to bring Canada to Canadians. We 18 are inundated with the print and broadcast media of 19 other countries, especially the United States. If we 20 are to protect and enhance that culture which is 21 Canadians and it is, I feel, superior to other 22 cultures, please excuse my arrogance, but I am a 23 Canadian and I'm proud of it, then we must work hard at 24 it and be prepared to put our money where our mouths 25 are. StenoTran 265 1 1208 Needless to say, I am a strong 2 defender of people like Sheila Copps and her attempts 3 to defend our print media against present attacks from 4 our neighbour to the south. 5 1209 We are such a large country and so 6 diverse in our cultures that we cannot hope to 7 appreciate this land of ours without some help and that 8 has to be the role of a national broadcaster, the role 9 of the CBC. 10 1210 Almost every country has its own 11 national broadcasting system controlled by its own 12 government, either directly or indirectly, as we have 13 in this country, and that's the way it should be. 14 1211 The push from some quarters to 15 privatize, if successful, would eventually allow the 16 CBC to fall into the hands of commercial interests -- 17 commercial interests that may be controlled from 18 outside the country. With all the risks for 19 interference from politicians and Parliament, it is far 20 preferable to the commercial alternative, since with 21 political control at least once every four years we 22 have got a chance to choose our dictators. No such 23 chance exists if the CBC is forced to exist through 24 advertising dollars from General Motors or Nestlé or 25 Cavendish Farms. StenoTran 266 1 1212 And then, with privatization wouldn't 2 it be nice, the cultural wasteland that is the offering 3 of the private broadcaster would be all-encompassing 4 and then my wife and I will immigrate to the EEC, go 5 back to Holland maybe. 6 1213 Every day the radio in our house goes 7 on tuned to the CBC at seven o'clock, a.m. It goes off 8 around midnight. Throughout the day we alternate 9 between Radio One and Radio Two. We take a break from 10 time to time to watch our favourite TV shows, like 11 "Marketplace", "On The Road Again", "Venture", "The 12 Fifth Estate", "This House Has 22 Minutes", "The Nature 13 of Things" and, of course, the news broadcasts at six 14 o'clock and at 10:00. We watch almost no TV that does 15 not originate in this country. 16 1214 We have nothing against "The Fresh 17 Prince of Bel Air" or "Jeopardy", but we just find them 18 dreadful entertainment and never watch them for that 19 reason. Thank God for the "National" and the "National 20 Update" and the local news shows. And thank God for 21 the three hours of local radio programming that goes on 22 from 6:00 to 9:00 every morning and for "Radio Noon" 23 and for "As It Happens" and "The Met on Saturday 24 Afternoon" "The Hum Line" and "Basic Black". What else 25 can I say? StenoTran 267 1 1215 This kind of programming must be 2 encouraged. The budget for the CBC must be greatly 3 increased. We now have a federal budgetary surplus in 4 this country and if we are really serious about keeping 5 this country together, I can't think of a better way to 6 spend it than on an enhanced CBC. 7 1216 The budget cuts the CBC has had to 8 endure in the past few years must stop and these monies 9 reinstated. A truly unique, truly Canadian and truly 10 valuable institution has been slowly dribbling away and 11 it's a disgrace. I think it is terrible that the 12 morning shows have to be repeated in the evening, I 13 presume because of the lack of money to create new 14 shows. So, it's time to start putting pressure on our 15 Members of Parliament to properly support the CBC. 16 1217 The CBC does far more to make this 17 country available to its citizens than any other agency 18 and it must be supported. Additional programs should 19 be created locally and broadcast nationally and the 20 monies must be made available to do this. 21 1218 The CBC is our window to the nation, 22 to the world. Let's get it back on track. 23 1219 You probably imagine by now that I am 24 a fan of the CBC. You had better believe it. If it 25 disappears -- well, I suppose there is still Radio StenoTran 268 1 Natavan(ph), there's Deutchevela(ph), there is the BBC 2 and there are some other places I suppose I could go. 3 There's nowhere else. 4 1220 Anyhow, thank you very much for 5 listening to my ravings. The chance to talk to you 6 folk from away is very much appreciated. 7 --- Applause / Applaudissements 8 1221 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 9 Thank you, Mr. Carson. 10 1222 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm glad you 11 told us in the end where you stood. I had you down as 12 undecided. 13 2000 14 1223 MR. STEWART: I now invite 15 Mr. Bernard Callaghan to make his presentation. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 1224 MR. CALLAGHAN: Good evening, 18 friends. As you have heard, my name is Bernard 19 Callaghan and I am here to represent a 12-person Island 20 writers group called The Writers Inn Group or TWIG for 21 short. 22 1225 We have been meeting for the last 23 three years or so, reading manuscripts of fiction, 24 poetry and drama. We are very proud to say that back 25 in November 1998 we published our first book, "The Twig StenoTran 269 1 Anthology" which has been well received by Islanders. 2 1226 I wish to start my 10-minute 3 presentation by reading a letter of mine which appeared 4 in CBC's Radio Guide, January 1987, shortly after a 5 November 1986 radio special that celebrated the 50th 6 anniversary of CBC radio. 7 "Dear Sirs: I commend you for 8 your November collectors edition 9 which I quickly bought. My wife 10 and I had radios on in the 11 bedroom, the bathroom, in the 12 living room. I even took a 13 radio outside so I could hear it 14 as my chainsaw idled. I echo 15 Peter Gzowski's affirmation that 16 CBC radio is the best in the 17 world. I am truly proud of both 18 CBC radio and TV. Keep up the 19 good work. I'm still dipping 20 into your nostalgic treasury of 21 CBC stars and programming." (As 22 read) 23 1227 That was 1987. Today is 1999, after 24 severe cutbacks and downsizing at the CBC. TWIG gladly 25 joins the fight to keep the CBC operating at full StenoTran 270 1 capacity. 2 1228 Using your guide questions from a 3 CRTC news release of December 1998, I wish to present 4 TWIG's input to help keep the CBC alive now and into 5 the new millennium. 6 1229 I shall first look at how the CBC is 7 fulfilling its role as a national public broadcaster. 8 Until CBC opened a TV outlet in 1971 and a radio outlet 9 in 1977 on Prince Edward Island, I did feel that the 10 CBC's mandate was unfulfilled. I believe P.E.I. was 11 the only province without a CBC station at that time. 12 1230 It is these local CBC stations, like 13 CBC Charlottetown, that fully actualize the CBC mandate 14 which, Ross Ianman(ph) in the Canadian Encyclopedia 15 says is: 16 "To provide Canadians with a 17 broad range of high quality 18 indigenous information and 19 entertainment programs, rather 20 than simply cater to the 21 interest of particular groups." 22 (As read) 23 1231 Each CBC provincial outlet through 24 its programming cements together more the Canadian 25 mosaic made up of different nationalities, races, StenoTran 271 1 religions and political beliefs. 2 1232 Keeping CBC stations in all provinces 3 helps the CBC to fulfil its national mandate. The 4 national and regional roles of the CBC should interact 5 and strengthen one another. The CBC must be ready for 6 the millennium in which our world will become even more 7 Marshall McLuhan's "Global Village". 8 1233 I realize the CBC is already using 9 technology like the Internet to keep abreast of 10 information technology, a must these days. I am not a 11 technology basher, but I also think that technology is 12 meant to serve people, not people technology, as 13 happens when management claims it can save more money 14 by automating at the cost of jobs. 15 1234 I have a hunch this substitution is 16 already present in large corporations, banks and maybe 17 the CBC. 18 1235 I shall now consider how well the CBC 19 serves us regionally. As far as the impact of CBC 20 regionally, I can speak only as a maritimer and as an 21 Islander. We do have some excellent programming coming 22 out of cities like Halifax. I refer to programs like 23 "Maritime Noon" with Kostas Salibrasos. 24 1236 When I come down from my den after a 25 morning's writing, I usually turn on "Maritime Noon" StenoTran 272 1 because it is both informative and entertaining. I am 2 sure that TWIG because of the strike misses the 3 pleasant tones of Wayne Collins and Karen Mair on 4 "Island Morning". Also, where would the Easter Seal 5 Telethon be without CBC's Roger Younker, Sheryl MacKay 6 and Kevin "Boomer" Gallant. 7 1237 CBC's Matt Rainnie and Mitch Cormier 8 have interviewed TWIG members on "Main Street" at 9 various occasions. 10 1238 I can now ask where would the arts on 11 the Island be without programs like "Island Morning" 12 and "Main Street" to promote them? Heaven forbid that 13 all CBC programs should come out of one centre like 14 Halifax. We would be culturally impoverished. 15 1239 I come to my next consideration, 16 should CBC radio and TV programming be any different 17 from other Canadian networks? I believe because CBC is 18 closer to the heartbeat of Canada that its programming 19 has to be different. Over the decades what other radio 20 network could have contributed to the flowering of 21 radio dramatists like Andrew Allen? 22 1240 Canadian radio drama needed geniuses 23 like Allen who have left a distinctive mark in the 24 history of radio drama which no other network has put 25 its heart and soul into like the CBC. StenoTran 273 1 1241 I must stay with CBC radio drama for 2 a moment. In the summer of 1994 I read in the Globe an 3 excellent piece on the history of CBC radio drama, but 4 what struck me was the picture of "Street Legal" stars 5 E. David Johnson and Julie Connor reading before a CBC 6 microphone their parts in a dramatization of Michael 7 Ondaatje's novel "In The Skin of the Lion". What a 8 powerful affirmation of CBC radio, two blockbuster TV 9 stars appearing in a radio drama. 10 1242 Finally, I come to the special role 11 CBC should play in the presentation of Canadian 12 programming. First, I wish to quote from one of 13 Canada's most distinguished writers, Robertson Davies, 14 who in his essay titled "Literature in a Country With 15 an Anthology" writes about Canadian distinctive 16 culture -- Canada's distinctive culture. 17 1243 Culture is an ambience, a part of the 18 air we breathe. That special ozone is now to be 19 breathed in Canada because it arises from the land 20 itself, not a few acres of snow, but a country of 21 immensely -- the very beauty of landscape and of 22 season, including our lovely and dangerous winters. 23 1244 I truly hold that the special role 24 the CBC is playing, and hopefully will continue to 25 play, is to give voice to Canadian culture which, as StenoTran 274 1 Robertson Davies said, arises from the land. What does 2 he mean by this? To answer, I refer to Canadian 3 writers like Margaret Atwood in "Surfacing", Margaret 4 Lawrence in "The Stone Angel" and Philippe Panneton in 5 "Trente Arpents", "Thirty Acres". In all of these 6 novels the land plays an integral role, even to 7 becoming personified into an omnipotent character or 8 forest as in "Thirty Acres". 9 1245 Our culture arises through the 10 landscape imagery of these novels. For example, 11 Panneton, through landscape imagery conveys the 12 narrowness of a farmer Eucharist Moissant on his 30 13 acres. The novel at least is partly about the conflict 14 between urban and rural culture. 15 1246 Because of its indigenous mandate, I 16 submit that CBC best gives a voice to our culture 17 arising from our land. 18 1247 In my letter, which I just read, I 19 mentioned Peter Gzowski, best known of course for 20 "Morningside". I can think of no other CBC broadcaster 21 who has so superbly given voice to the land than Peter 22 Gzowski. In fact, "Morningside" in its early years, I 23 believe was called "This Country in the Morning". I 24 like the latter name because it suggests what the 25 broadcaster is about in voicing our national culture. StenoTran 275 1 1248 To conclude, representing TWIG, I 2 feel honoured to have spoken in support for the CBC. 3 Let us do all we can to strengthen CBC now and into the 4 new millennium. 5 1249 Thank you. 6 --- Applause / Applaudissements 7 1250 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 8 Thank you. 9 2010 10 1251 MR. STEWART: The next speaker is 11 described on the list as a representative of TWIG, but 12 if there is such a person -- okay. 13 1252 I now call upon Mr. Reg Pendergast to 14 make his presentation. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 1253 MR. PENDERGAST: Good evening 17 everyone, representatives of the CRTC. 18 1254 I guess I could call myself a 19 citizen, a retired teacher. I was going to say does 20 this room remind you of an igloo? 21 --- Laughter / Rires 22 1255 MR. PENDERGAST: That's part of our 23 culture too. 24 1256 Also, the references to the 25 repetition or programs reminds me of the story about StenoTran 276 1 the fellow who visited the prison. For recreation they 2 had a joke book and they had them all numbered, so 3 maybe after another few days or so the CBC people will 4 just say a number and we will think of the program. 5 They won't have to put it on at all. 6 1257 Anyway, I don't have any particular 7 axes to grind. I guess I could say maybe I have a 8 whole lot of axes to grind. Anyway, if I was asked to 9 rate the CBC and I say SRC also, Radio-Canada, and they 10 use that interchangeably, on a scale of very 11 satisfactory, satisfactory or not satisfactory, I would 12 probably all of the above. I would like to compare my 13 attitude to the Corporation or the Corporation's as 14 that of a proud parent. 15 1258 I wasn't around in 1932, but R.B. 16 Bennett did one right thing at least. He may still be 17 beaten by that stopped clock -- he's right twice a day. 18 Like a parent who recognizes a child's shortcomings, I 19 am still proud of my CBC/SRC and like many parents, at 20 times I feel inadequate when faced with the technical 21 facility, the audio and visual capabilities of my 22 protege. But I may also be disappointed or even 23 chagrined when achievements do not measure up to 24 expectations. 25 1259 These disappointments occur in topics StenoTran 277 1 like Canadian unity, bilingualism, western development 2 and fawning over the redundant and anachronistic 3 monarchy. That's the only time I ever turn off the 4 radio or TV, or change channels. 5 1260 For example, what has our CBC/SRC 6 done lately about the refusal to recognize the civil 7 rights of French-language parents in Summerside and 8 West Prince, P.E.I.? Why hasn't the provincial 9 government been out in lavender for its manipulation of 10 the justice system to try to wear down proponents of 11 French-language education? 12 1261 This leads to the question of the 13 role of the CBC/SRC as a national broadcaster. The 14 answer begins with another question. Should CBC/SRC 15 lead or merely react, report and reflect? I believe 16 that CBC/SRC should lead the way as a propaganda 17 instrument to promote generally accepted national 18 causes. 19 1262 The most obvious one is Canadian 20 unity, not the syrupy U.S. type, although we have maple 21 syrup too, but a realistic approach to the concept that 22 if Canada is going to survive as a unified whole, it 23 must establish and promote a number of priorities. 24 1263 Number one, that Canada is 25 historically and contemporaneously a bicultural, StenoTran 278 1 bilingual nation state of two main nations, whose 2 dependents are spread throughout Canada and their main 3 concentrations in Quebec and Ontario, that is the 4 French and British. 5 1264 That these nations must respect both 6 the rights and cultural traits of Canada's aboriginal 7 peoples. 8 1265 Three, that other cultures, so-called 9 multiculturals, exist and contribute to the diversity 10 of our cultural mosaic, and should maintain cultural 11 and language traditions, while operating within one or 12 both of the official languages. 13 1266 Number four, that if Canada is to 14 develop a complete set of sovereign traditions, it must 15 cut the straggling strings of the old British umbilical 16 cord, the monarchy, which is not only frayed, but 17 starting to stink. 18 1267 We must then develop our own 19 executive branch, a more balanced legislative branch 20 with an elected, effective and equalibrial Senate -- 21 not equal, but equalibrial and balanced throughout the 22 regions. 23 1268 I conclude this role question with 24 another question. If the CBC/SRC doesn't play the boy 25 in the Emperor's New Clothes, who is? Can the national StenoTran 279 1 broadcaster rise above the ad hockery and petty 2 politics that has characterized our politicians, both 3 federal and provincial? Are we capable of a tennis 4 court oath? 5 1269 The second question of regional 6 coverage is less clear, again a balancing act. I 7 believe that much has been done and some things 8 attempted. For example, the CBC/SRC sponsored P.E.I. 9 Folk Story Festival in 1998, a good attempt but 10 hampered by the emphasis on the international ahead of 11 the local. 12 1270 The exposition of local folklore had 13 not even reached the tip of the iceberg stage yet. It 14 was just a growler. The result was that -- you might 15 have to be from Newfoundland to understand a growler. 16 The result was that at least two published collectors 17 and storytellers were not even invited to participate 18 at first. Were the people sponsoring, the CBC I guess 19 you could say, trying to fly before they could walk? 20 1271 Another problem of regionality is 21 that the SRC, Radio-Canada, tends to be completely 22 regional because the national French language coverage 23 tends to be exclusively Québécois. By the way, I wrote 24 this before I heard about what was said in Moncton last 25 night. Has this contributed to the ghetto mentality StenoTran 280 1 of the Quebec separatists who are prepared to write off 2 millions of francophones outside of Quebec, while they 3 continue their narcissistic navel gazing? 4 1272 How can the media report with a 5 straight face, for example, the farcical statement of 6 the Premier of Quebec that he would protect francos 7 outside of Quebec from the backlash after separation? 8 Why doesn't he help them now. 9 1273 The third question was: How should 10 CBC be different, CBC/SRC? That has been partially 11 answered I suppose in what I have said already, but to 12 take a tactful tact, a difference I would like to see 13 in the Corporations would be doing more to search out 14 and display new or newly discovered music, literature 15 and visual arts, for example, on TV, visual. 16 1274 It seems sometimes as if CBC/SRC is 17 reacting rather than leading. For example, after 18 Céline Dion makes it big in the U.S. we get quadruple 19 doses of her on the Juno Awards. Are there no other 20 French Canadian artists inside or outside Quebec? How 21 about a song from Lynn Lemay, is it? 22 1275 What about youth? We all know the 23 cliche about the future. I don't know if this is 24 regional or not, but it applies everywhere I guess. Is 25 our national broadcaster doing enough to encourage StenoTran 281 1 youth participation? What happened to "Reach For The 2 Top" for example? Should CBC/SRC lead the youth 3 business to the specialized interest groups like 4 political parties, churches, service clubs, artistic 5 groups and sports organizations? 6 1276 In sports, for example, why not 7 promote a Canadian division of the NHL or a truly 8 amateur Olympics and let them have a professional one 9 too. However, there is one idea that CBC/SRC could 10 borrow from American public broadcasting or whatever it 11 is called, PBS, and that is some kind of fundraising 12 scheme for listeners and lookers which would be the 13 icing on the cake for program development. How about a 14 lotto, a CBC/SRC. 15 1277 Finally, the question of a special 16 role for CBC/SRC in Canadian broadcasting. 17 1278 One of the problems I have observed 18 as a follower of my radio and TV network is that of 19 Canadian content. But it's not the kind of Canadian 20 content that you, as the people, usually think of. The 21 problem is a symptom of our partial lack of Canadian 22 identity. The people who conduct and produce programs 23 of an otherwise informative and entertaining nature 24 should be more aware of and use Canadian examples in 25 their references in comparison that was referred to StenoTran 282 1 earlier. 2 1279 For example, recently a commentator 3 referred to the "James Gang" without identifying them 4 as where they were located. Were they American, the 5 "James Gang"? You know, like, we're just automatically 6 supposed to understand that. 7 1280 Why aren't they familiar with our 8 Canadian wild west gangs, like the MacLean Brothers(ph) 9 in B.C.? One of the three brothers -- the three 10 brothers were hung and one of them was only 15 when he 11 was hung. So that's pretty sensational, isn't it? 12 1281 This inability to resist or avoid the 13 inroads of American pop culture is partly a result of 14 the non-existence of graduate programs in Canadian 15 history at Canadian universities before 1967. And I 16 know that from direct experience, because I was in one 17 of the first programs that was put on at Carleton 18 University, "Canadian Studies" it was called, but it 19 was mainly Canadian history. 20 1282 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir, you 21 have reached -- 22 1283 MR. PENDERGAST: Just a short minute? 23 1284 The trickle down into undergraduate 24 programs was therefore more like Chinese, or should I 25 say Newfoundland, water torture. StenoTran 283 1 1285 The question is then begged: How 2 much Canadian history is required for media trainees? 3 Are journalism courses mostly offered now at Community 4 Colleges have just a veneer of liberal arts. Do media 5 people need a crash course in Canadian history and 6 sociology? 7 1286 I would like to see the CBC then do a 8 survey of that -- of that type of thing. I do not see 9 this as a thought control à la Orwell -- excuse me, 10 another non-Canadian reference. It's a simple 11 prerequisite. 12 1287 Do journalists ask the hard questions 13 and do the obscure research. 14 1288 Okay. There's a little bit left 15 there, but I will be passing it in anyway, because I 16 would like you to have a copy, so I could leave a copy 17 with you. 18 1289 So there are many, you know, 19 examples, but generally the -- my attitude is still 20 quite positive. Like, I'm not undecided; I'm quite -- 21 in spite of some of the weaknesses, I'm very much in 22 favour of the CBC and it's improvement. 23 1290 Thank you. 24 1291 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 25 Thank you very much. StenoTran 284 1 1292 Yes, if you could leave a copy with 2 us, certainly with Mr. Rodger. 3 2030 4 1293 I would propose ten minutes, maybe we 5 can get some hot coffee and we will pursue. 6 --- Recess at 2020 / Suspension à 2020 7 --- Technical difficulties / Problèmes techniques 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 1294 DR. MacQUARRIE: -- CBC Two is a 10 constant companion at home and in my car. And I marvel 11 at what a few talented and perhaps mildly eccentric 12 people can do. Bill Richardson, Danny Frankelman(ph), 13 Joergen Goethe, Sheila Rogers, many others who have 14 been mentioned here. 15 1295 A good record library, people like 16 that and you have excellent programming. To me, these 17 are worthy successors to the Max Fergusons and Clive 18 Gilmours and please, CBC, nourish these people. Keep 19 this going. National programming on radio is working 20 well from my perspective, providing real alternatives 21 within the two units. 22 1296 Local programming, I think has now 23 been cut to the point where it's practically bled to 24 death. It used to be good; it may be good again in the 25 future. In the meantime, I don't listen to it much. StenoTran 285 1 1297 On the other hand, I don't have too 2 much interest in national programming on CBC 3 Television. And I would include "The National" in 4 that. 5 1298 Many of the programs are boring. I 6 have no particular advocacy here for advertising, but 7 in many cases the advertisements are better than the 8 programs. And at the worst of times, these programs 9 would make a saint swear. 10 1299 It's in television, I think that the 11 role of local and regional broadcasting becomes 12 important and I single out our own Charlottetown 13 program "Compass", which has been mentioned here 14 several times. This works because the people involved 15 are not only good and accurate journalists, their lives 16 are here. They know the Island and they know where the 17 skeletons are buried. 18 1300 In regional programming, "Land and 19 Sea" is just excellent, providing, when CBC deigns to 20 allow it airtime, a fine insight into resource and 21 environmental affairs. Again, I marvel at what a few 22 dedicated people can do on a very limited budget and 23 with, I gather, the threat of total extinction hanging 24 over them all the time. This excellent program is 25 literally alone in dealing in-depth with these StenoTran 286 1 important rural issues in our region. 2 1301 And such regional programming allows 3 our Atlantic area to talk to other regions on matters 4 of mutual concern, enough to build a small bridge 5 across the massive Canadian communication gap. 6 1302 I thus believe that the kind of 7 television programming that I want depends upon people 8 who know the region well, who make their lives here and 9 who have the courage and sensitivity to explore our 10 strengths and weaknesses, joys and concerns. 11 1303 I will leave the centralization, 12 globalization to others and I think I can only add one 13 more comment. 14 1304 If you want to hear a good debate on 15 the Monarchy, as my friend read, guess where it's going 16 to be -- on CBC, coming up. 17 1305 Thank you. 18 1306 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 19 Thank you very much. 20 2034 21 1307 MR. STEWART: Now I invite Ms Jean 22 Doherty to make her presentation. 23 1308 Is Ms Doherty in the room? No? 24 1309 Therefore I invite Mr. Ron Irving to 25 make his presentation. StenoTran 287 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 1310 MR. IRVING: Thank you. And I want 3 to thank the Commissioners for coming to Charlottetown. 4 1311 I sit here with a burning question: 5 Can you do anything to save the CBC? If you can, I 6 implore you to do it. 7 1312 You made the point earlier today, 8 Madam Chair that you, the CRTC, do not allocate CBC's 9 budget or appoint its Board of Directors. But you 10 monitor its performance and you grant its licence. 11 Does that mean that you could tell the government that 12 the severity of its cuts has resulted in an inability 13 on the part of CBC to fulfil its national and regional 14 mandate? And if you did, would the government respond? 15 1313 We have watched the dissemination of 16 this vital public service over the last few years and 17 our letters to MPs don't seem to have helped much. 18 1314 Many of the speakers today have 19 recounted what the CBC has meant to them personally, 20 and I could certainly do that, but I won't. It's 21 enough to tell you that I care about the CBC and I care 22 passionately. 23 1315 My appreciation of just how exemplary 24 a public broadcasting system is was emphatically 25 brought home to me during the five years of my working StenoTran 288 1 career in the United States. Permit me to share some 2 of my concerns. 3 1316 First and foremost, protection for 4 regional service. A lot of echoes here, aren't there? 5 1317 We have had an example of how 6 diminished this aspect of our lives has become with the 7 current strike. The programming that is so much a part 8 of the daily lives of many of us here is gone. The 9 realization that this could become permanent is 10 frightening. 11 1318 We came close to that at the time of 12 the massive cuts and layoffs. If this city had not 13 been a provincial capital, we would probably have 14 suffered with the loss that a number of other Canadian 15 cities did. 16 1319 Those of you who live in big cities 17 probably can't appreciate the vital role that CBC plays 18 in disseminating local news and information and how 19 important it is to the local cultural scene. Well, not 20 after today you can't not know that. 21 1320 We have lost personnel, but the ones 22 who are left and who are carrying increased workloads 23 are doing a remarkable job. I regret that you haven't 24 been able to sample their efforts even briefly during 25 your time here. Our morning and late afternoon radio StenoTran 289 1 programs, as well as our supper hour TV show "Compass", 2 are more than just reporters of events, they're 3 institutions. A part of the fabric of our lives. 4 1321 It has been painful to watch the 5 demoralizing atmosphere of uncertainty in which the 6 teams of people who make these programs have to work. 7 I have watched the erosion of our service over the 8 years from the loss of our noontime radio program, late 9 night TV news, the Premier mentioned them specifically 10 earlier, and the total loss of local service on 11 weekends. The latter deprivation is truly unfortunate. 12 1322 We realize that the situation exists 13 because the resources are not there to make weekend 14 programming possible. The same can be said of coverage 15 of events that happen after regular business hours, 16 although this is more true of television. We want to 17 see a recommitment to local programming, which means 18 realistic budgets and staff. 19 1323 In my opinion, CBC National Radio is 20 outstanding. I listen to both CBC One and CBC Two with 21 the occasional regret that I can't listen to both at 22 the same time. 23 1324 I have cable television, although not 24 the myriad channels that are now available. On 25 television one watches shows rather than networks, but StenoTran 290 1 I find more shows of interest on CBC than anywhere 2 else. Primarily, I suppose, because of their Canadian 3 focus, but also because of their quality. 4 1325 If we're at home, we never miss 5 "Compass", our supper hour show. If we did, we would 6 feel out of touch with our community and our province. 7 1326 I have read of proposals for a new 8 youth-oriented network for CBC. I believe they have 9 the ability to produce quality programs for such a 10 network, programs such as "Street Sense", but it begs 11 the question: Where will the funds come from? 12 1327 It's regrettable, also, that the 13 requirements of independent journalism so often results 14 in unhappy and sometimes vengeful politicians. This 15 tension has existed between the CBC and politicians for 16 as long as I can remember. But it's only in recent 17 times that we see the corporation's very existence 18 threatened by those who control its Parliamentary 19 allocations. There are cries for a more business-like 20 approach, i.e. for privatization. No wonder CBC TV 21 can't come near to attaining its long-held goal of 22 commercial free prime time Canadian content 23 programming. 24 1328 I would agree with those who say 25 there's too much sports programming on CBC TV, StenoTran 291 1 particularly in the spring when the constantly 2 expanding NHL holds playoffs that take over a month to 3 complete and they play havoc with normal schedules. 4 But all of those games earn the money that the 5 corporation needs to keep afloat. 6 1329 Public broadcasting is not a 7 business, it's a public service and this vast country 8 of ours needs public broadcasting. 9 1330 Thank you. 10 --- Applause / Applaudissements 11 1331 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 12 Thank you very much. 13 2041 14 1332 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Ken 15 Williams to make his presentation. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 1333 MR. WILLIAMS: Madam Bertrand, Mr. 18 Langford, Members of the Commission, fellow presenters, 19 ladies and gentlemen. 20 1334 Je m'appelle Ken Williams. For the 21 translators, that's the only French I know. 22 1335 First of all, Mr. Langford, I want to 23 thank you for your comment to Mr. Broderick when you 24 rebutted his fact that maybe there was a hidden agenda. 25 I do not believe that the CRTC has a hidden agenda; I StenoTran 292 1 do, however, believe the government has one. 2 1336 But may I first thank you for 3 allowing me to make this presentation tonight. I find 4 it an honour and a privilege to have this opportunity 5 to express my views in support of what I believe is one 6 of Canada's most influential institutions. 7 1337 It has been nearly 30 years since I 8 appeared before the Commission. And if that time line 9 stays the same, this will more than likely be my last 10 opportunity so I want to make it a good one. 11 1338 The CRTC has an awesome 12 responsibility as the regulator of Canada's broadcast 13 industry. In your hands you have the power to license 14 a broadcaster or remove that licence. For the private 15 sector, the effects of that decision are different than 16 that for the public sector. We are, however, here 17 tonight to discuss the latter and more important to 18 decide its future. 19 1339 To put it bluntly, Canada needs the 20 CBC. We need to turn the CBC on. The CBC is to 21 broadcasting as our maple leaf is to our flag. It's one 22 of the symbols that helps hold this great country of 23 ours together. 24 1340 As an example of that, I could 25 mention the many programs which allow us to see what StenoTran 293 1 the other part of the country is doing and what trouble 2 it is getting into. But for me the essence of the CBC 3 was felt on this one occasion. 4 1341 One evening I was watching "Venture". 5 At that time, Robert Sculley was the host. During a 6 commercial break, I did the male thing and started 7 channel surfing. And to my surprise, I saw Robert 8 Sculley again, but on the French-language CBC. I 9 wasn't aware he was bilingual, but I remember 10 commenting, "That, to me, represents what the CBC is 11 all about". 12 1342 Why is this example important? I'm 13 proud that I have been in every province and the two 14 territories and I have listened and watched the CBC 15 everywhere I have been. It was a little confusing in 16 Newfoundland, however, because of the half-hour 17 difference. But when you're on your honeymoon, who 18 cares? 19 1343 I have lived in five provinces, 20 Prince Edward Island being the fifth. I was born and 21 raised in Quebec and I'm ashamed to say I'm not 22 bilingual. I have lived in Toronto, not that that's a 23 big deal. I have also had the privilege of living on 24 an Indian reserve in Saskatchewan and know what it's 25 like to experience 24 hours of daylight in the StenoTran 294 1 Northwest Territories. 2 1344 Everywhere I have been, the CBC 3 reflected the local culture, something private 4 broadcasters do not do. Canada is a mosaic of 5 different cultures, and it's important that they are 6 maintained and reflected in our public broadcaster. 7 1345 You are asking Canadians for their 8 opinions of the CBC's role, the programming it offers 9 and the direction it should take in the coming years, 10 both at the national and regional levels. And should 11 the public broadcaster fulfil its role in a different 12 manner than it has in the past? 13 1346 First of all, it is my belief that 14 the CBC is different. And it is that difference that 15 makes it unique among broadcasters. No other 16 broadcaster brings you the "Arts Report", "C'est La 17 Vie", "Quirks and Quarks", "The House", "As It 18 Happens", and we have heard also of "Basic Black". I 19 bring that up because I think I'm the only person in 20 Prince Edward Island that has a "Basic Black" t-shirt. 21 1347 These programs are now available on 22 the Internet to all schools in Canada, and what a 23 disaster it would be if that service was taken away 24 from our students. Despite my white hair I have a 25 seven-year old son and he wakes up to the CBC every StenoTran 295 1 morning, and what I like about it is that it engages 2 him right away and he starts discussing the things that 3 are happening in the world. 4 1348 The CBC is also unmatched in its 5 regional programming across our country. I say that 6 with much enthusiasm because I have experienced it 7 first hand in all of our major cities and in much of 8 rural Canada. 9 1349 The quality of its journalism exceeds 10 that of most, if not all, of the private broadcasters. 11 We see that in both radio and television. The CBC 12 dares to wear new Canadian programs and challenges 13 Canadians to take stock of what we can do, who we are 14 and be proud of it, and at the same time, laugh at 15 ourselves. 16 1350 Americanization of our culture is a 17 real threat and one of our greatest defences against it 18 is the CBC. Would we have heard of the late Alan 19 Maitland if it wasn't for the CBC? And what about Max 20 Ferguson, Stuart MacLean, Peter Gzowski and of course, 21 who can forget Barbara Frum, and dare I mention Rex 22 Murphy? 23 1351 The CBC is the unifying voice of all 24 Canadians. Unfortunately, the CBC is not fulfilling 25 its role as the national or regional broadcaster, StenoTran 296 1 through no fault of its own. Budget cutbacks have 2 forced the CBC to minimize services and cut others. 3 1352 Here we have an award-winning 4 institution and yet the government treats it as a 5 second class citizen which is trying to live up to its 6 responsibility and yet is frustrated in the attempt. 7 Although its been said that Federal Heritage Minister 8 Sheila Copps is sympathetic to the CBC, her lack of 9 support for it during the strike would make one think 10 that the government has a hidden agenda for the CBC. I 11 hope I am wrong. 12 1353 The Heritage Minister said last 13 weekend that she thinks the challenge is for management 14 and the union to get together and come up with a 15 compromise before we end up with a television 16 black-out. What I would like to know is, how can the 17 two sides come up with a compromise when one side is 18 being strangled by its master. 19 1354 Maybe the question to the public 20 should have been: How do you think the Federal 21 Government can help the CBC fulfil its role so it can 22 maintain its position as the national broadcaster? 23 1355 Lawrence Martin, a Southam news 24 writer concluded an article on the CBC recently with 25 the following: StenoTran 297 1 "Since the network has been 2 under seige since the Mulroney 3 stewardship, since it has been 4 everybody's favourite whipping 5 boy, since it has paid penance 6 for its proliferate ways, is it 7 not time now to bury the 8 hatchet?" 9 1356 I believe the CBC should fulfil its 10 role in the same manner as it has in the past. Many of 11 us here probably remember when CBC Television first 12 came on the air and how it was the pioneer of 13 television broadcasting in Canada. We remember 14 individuals like Dick McDougall and Percy Saltzman and 15 programs such as the "Plouffe Family" and "The Don 16 Messer Show". But we can't live in the past; but we 17 can go a long way in bringing back the enthusiasm and 18 the spirit that made the CBC the great institution it 19 is today. 20 1357 Using modern technology and a new 21 sense of purpose, the CBC will not only fulfil its 22 mandate, but exceed it to the benefit of all Canadians. 23 The CBC has a very important role that is not driven by 24 pure commercial interests. It's Canada's link. It's a 25 basic link to the community, an important link to the StenoTran 298 1 province and a central link to national unity. 2 1358 Some years ago the railway left 3 Prince Edward Island and shortly after that the tracks 4 were removed. There's very little, if any, trace of 5 the railways present on the Island now. It didn't have 6 much impact on the economy because there were other 7 methods of transportation that filled the gap left by 8 the trains. Unfortunately, the CBC on the Island may 9 be like the trains, but with one important exception, 10 there is no other facility that can or would be willing 11 to take its place. 12 1359 In your press release, you say the 13 CRTC hopes to hear from Canadians on the CBC's role. 14 As a person who wears his emotions of his country on 15 his sleeve, it is my hope that the CRTC applies 16 pressure on the Federal Government to improve its 17 commitment to the CBC. 18 1360 I'm proud to be Canadian and I'm 19 equally proud to be a CBC viewer and listener. Many 20 times I find myself going around the house with nothing 21 on but the CBC. 22 --- Laughter / Rires 23 1361 MR. WILLIAMS: Now, more than ever, 24 we need to turn the CBC on, not off. 25 1362 Thank you. StenoTran 299 1 --- Applause / Applaudissements 2 1363 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 3 Thank you very much, sir. 4 2050 5 1364 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Robert 6 Donnelly to make his presentation. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 1365 MR. DONNELLY: Speakers who are so 9 eloquent in their remarks. 10 1366 Of course, our thanks to the CRTC for 11 the hearings. You have had many thanks and they're 12 well deserved. 13 1367 The hearing has been a bit of a 14 revelation to me. At home I listen to my radio -- or 15 many radios, because I believe every room has one. And 16 if I take the dog for a walk, the Walkman comes along. 17 1368 And in my own way, of course, I never 18 realized that so many people feel exactly as I do. I 19 thought I was maybe a little unique, but it's 20 absolutely not so. 21 1369 This is the first time I have made a 22 presentation. I have never attended a public hearing 23 of any kind. 24 1370 I'm going to repeat everything that 25 everybody has said and my wife said -- I told my wife, StenoTran 300 1 "I think I better skim through it and just pick out a 2 few things", and she says, "No. It's got to be said 3 over and over again so they can get it". 4 1371 Well, I'm expressing mostly my 5 personal opinion, although the CBC Radio in our case 6 has been a family affair and we strongly support this 7 institution. 8 1372 If I may be permitted, I do want to 9 go back, because I don't think there's anybody any 10 older than I am in here. Anyway, at my age, I can look 11 back to radio broadcasting almost to its origins. 12 1373 I can recall as a child of six or 13 seven living in rural Saskatchewan, hearing my first 14 radio with a shared set of headphones on a home-made 15 radio. And of course, no neighbours for at least a 16 mile around and the only thing was the telephone and it 17 didn't work very well. 18 1374 And at least two American mid-west 19 stations were in operation then. It's interesting. 20 And if I can remember it correctly it was KOA Denver 21 and KSA -- I don't think my wife has it right -- KLA 22 Salt Lake City, I think it is. 23 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone 24 1375 MR. DONNELLY: And national? 25 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone StenoTran 301 1 1376 MR. DONNELLY: That's right. You're 2 right, yes. 3 1377 This was at the start of the Great 4 Depression and with no newspapers or magazines, this 5 was our first connection beyond our few neighbours and 6 relations. Of course, we soon moved to a town and then 7 a city and the radio became a central source of news 8 and entertainment. 9 1378 Just one more memory and that is 10 while in Saskatchewan attending the university after 11 the war and living in Saskatoon, I would turn on the 12 radio at about eight o'clock for a 15-minute break and 13 listen to Don Messer and his Islanders. And little did 14 I know then I would take up residence on this wonderful 15 Island where the program originated. 16 1379 Probably what I'm trying to say is 17 that radio has been part of my life for almost 70 years 18 and it has been a very important part. CBC Radio has 19 always been my choice for news, information and 20 entertainment. It's difficult to express the interplay 21 in one's daily life that this radio provides, and this 22 is a shared experience by the sound of it. 23 1380 It is there from the time one wakens 24 until lights out at the end of the day. And of course, 25 as some people remarked, if you wake up in the middle StenoTran 302 1 of the night, you can get some real interesting 2 broadcasting from around the world which might be a 3 very good thing to be putting in on some of the -- 4 instead of some of the material we're getting now 5 during the strike. 6 1381 It is there from the time one wakens 7 until lights go out at the end of the evening. There 8 is a kind of rhythm for us. You waken to local 9 programming, weather for the day, it's a companion in 10 my works off with the regional program, from Halifax 11 there's a call-in, at supper there's a six o'clock news 12 followed by "As It Happens". And at my desk in the 13 evening, that wonderful program "Ideas" and then late 14 evening music. 15 1382 And I'm glad someone mentioned Stuart 16 MacLean, I haven't heard that mentioned very much. But 17 the "Vinyl Cafe" is unique. A storyteller. What a 18 storyteller. We never miss the "Radio Noon" as we have 19 our lunch or the Saturday "Science" program. 20 1383 And now for some of the questions. 21 Yes, CBC Radio does fulfil its role. I'm beginning to 22 wonder, from what I have heard here though, I probably 23 should say in the past as a public broadcaster, I am 24 not sure how that can be improved because of the 25 funding problems. Special programming comes from StenoTran 303 1 various regions, has a unifying effect on the country. 2 If all programming came from Toronto, for instance, 3 that would not be good. And I can't recall any special 4 programming out of Quebec other than news. 5 1384 The lack of funding has, in my 6 opinion, decreased the effectiveness of its role as a 7 national public broadcaster. I am sure that with 8 increased funding the CBC can better fulfil its role in 9 the future as this would allow more creativity in 10 carrying out its mandate. Others have expressed this 11 much more forcibly and I think more creatively and more 12 accurately. 13 1385 In the Maritimes, the CBC serves the 14 public with excellent regional programming. There's 15 five hours local and two hours out of Halifax, and this 16 is a good mix. 17 1386 The two hours from 4:00 to 6:00 has 18 suffered because of some loss of local coverage. 19 That's being supplemented by national coverage. The 20 proportion of national programming is about right on 21 weekdays. The greatest loss has occurred on Sunday 22 morning programs. It used to concentrate on mostly 23 world news and documentaries and I miss it. And 24 Michael Enright is an excellent host, but on Sundays, I 25 want to hear someone different. StenoTran 304 1 1387 CBC Radio must be different from 2 other broadcasters and CBC Radio is definitely 3 different. The lack of funding has made it more 4 difficult to be different and many of the programs have 5 suffered. 6 1388 "Ideas" is nearly always a learning 7 experience. But it used to be better. It is one of my 8 favourite programs. Bob MacDonald's science program is 9 excellent. The rest of Saturday p.m. is a write-off 10 for me, except for Danny Finkleman(ph), of course, then 11 we thank goodness we have the alternative of CBC Two. 12 1389 TV for me is one hour, six days a 13 week, "The National". It would be a real treat to see 14 it without advertising. My wife gets up and leaves the 15 room when the advertising starts and I mute the TV and 16 read something else. 17 1390 I kind of hesitated to put in my bias 18 against advertising, because it's so terrible that I 19 have difficulty expressing it. Someone did say that 20 the advertising was better than some of the programs, 21 but I don't think that's true. 22 1391 But I see no real reason why we can't 23 have a national TV network completely without 24 advertising. It seems like the cost of producing 25 advertising is a burden, as well, on the CBC. I'm StenoTran 305 1 naive enough to think that that could be possible. 2 1392 Anyway, do not repeat the 11:00 p.m. 3 You know, someone said that it's an insult to ourselves 4 and I agree with her. 5 1393 But do go direct to the regional 6 news. One lady did say how, she says, "You have to get 7 to bed a little early. You can't wait up until 11:30 8 and 11:45 to hear the regional news". And that's 9 right. We never hear it anymore, at all. 10 1394 The regional news from Halifax is on 11 too late to stay up and watch it. I cannot comment 12 extensively on TV because I hardly ever look at it. As 13 most people here have seemed to have indicated, there's 14 been almost no commentary on the TV except in the few 15 programs. 16 1395 I agree with the same opinion that -- 17 some opinions now that CBC TV must change if it is to 18 survive. There is too much hockey, or sports in 19 general. Playoff time, particularly in the Maritimes 20 is very frustrating because the news either never comes 21 on or it comes on after midnight. At that time of the 22 year I threatened to never watch a TV screen again and 23 do not and never -- we do not and never will have cable 24 unless it can be structured so that we can get only 25 what we want. StenoTran 306 1 1396 I am so biased against advertising, 2 as I said before, that it is difficult for me to 3 comment constructively on CBC Television. 4 1397 There have been some outstanding 5 documentaries, interrupted by advertising. 6 1398 Thanks. 7 --- Applause / Applaudissements 8 2100 9 1399 MR. STEWART: I now invite Mr. Frank 10 Driscoll to make his presentation and he will be 11 replacing Mr. Harry Baglole. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 1400 MR. DRISCOLL: Welcome to Prince 14 Edward Island to you and your staff. And I'm very 15 pleased to be here to present among so many others that 16 are so professional and so passionate about the CBC. 17 I'm personally passionate about the CBC, as well, but 18 I'm going to refrain from discussing my own personal 19 passions about the CBC and represent the views of the 20 organization that I represent. 21 1401 I have the pleasure to represent the 22 Advisory Board of the Institute of Island Studies. 23 We're an institute -- a public policy institute based 24 at the University of Prince Edward Island. And I 25 wanted to acknowledge of the involvement of our public StenoTran 307 1 policy committee and specifically, Jeannie Lee's the 2 Chairperson of that committee, and Harry Baglole, the 3 Executive Director of the Institute of Island Studies 4 is unable to be here tonight and the other members of 5 our Board. We have a 12-person Board and I'm honoured 6 to be the Chairperson. 7 1402 I also acknowledge the presence and 8 the contribution of Jane Ledwell, our researcher and 9 our conference co-ordinator in helping us with the 10 brief. 11 1403 The questions posed by the Canadian 12 Radio, Television Communications Commission, the CRTC, 13 offer a wide scope for discussion of the Canadian 14 Broadcasting Corporation and its mandate. 15 1404 The Institute of Island Studies reply 16 to these questions is premised on the following 17 assumptions about the CBC. 18 1405 First of all, role and 19 responsibilities. As Canada's sole national public 20 broadcaster, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has 21 an important role to play in creating a forum for 22 public debate and cultural representation and has an 23 important responsibility to the people of Canada to 24 provide balanced information and insightful analysis 25 and to tell stories of Canadians. StenoTran 308 1 1406 Next: Reflecting a nation. CBC has 2 an important obligation to reflect Canada as a nation 3 to ten provinces, three territories and three founding 4 peoples, aboriginal, francophone and anglophone. And 5 that these obligations set it apart from privately 6 owned broadcasters and other media. 7 1407 Next: Representing diversity. We 8 think that the best way to ensure that the CBC 9 represents diverse groups, individuals, interests and 10 points of view is to ensure that it creates 11 opportunities for public discussion, debate and input 12 across the country. And that the best way to gain 13 input from across the country is to maintain local 14 radio and television stations. 15 1408 Representing the provinces. CBC 16 Television and Radio have a special responsibility to 17 maintain and enrich broadcasting on a provincial level. 18 1409 The comments that follow are 19 reflections on current practice in the CBC and helps 20 for its role in fostering and understanding of Canadian 21 nationalism and Canadian culture in the new millennium. 22 1410 Our national public broadcaster. The 23 CBC faces serious challenges as a national public 24 broadcaster in a nation that is geographical large with 25 a public that is widely and unevenly dispersed. StenoTran 309 1 There's no identifiable, quantifiable, objective set of 2 assumptions we can label as "Canadian". No defined set 3 of characteristics or radio listening or television 4 viewing habits we can associate with Canadians. 5 1411 Canada as a nation, and Canadians as 6 a public are what we understand, and understand 7 importantly, understanding of a collectivity of 8 provinces and people. However, because we live 9 together as a nation with an elective government and 10 because we interact with the wider political world as a 11 nation, there are most certainly issues that are issues 12 of national importance and as a national institution, 13 CBC plays an important role in providing the nation 14 with information about those issues as a public 15 institution. 16 1412 The CBC must remember that its 17 audience is a diverse group of Canadians approaching 18 issues from a variety of perspectives and from across 19 the country. As a result, it is critically important 20 that the CBC maintain a steadfastly public institution. 21 It should not be forced to rely on funding from 22 advertising or have its impartiality breached by big 23 business or big government. Likewise its programming 24 decisions should not be entirely driven by markets or 25 entirely rely on national ratings. StenoTran 310 1 1413 The value of representing a nation 2 and a public to itself sometimes goes beyond the value 3 assigned to the market. In order to accurately reflect 4 the nation and the public, the CBC should represent 5 groups whose views are invisible as a profit-driven 6 private media. 7 1414 CBC should reflect the interests of 8 the public, including minority and provincial concerns 9 whose rights to be represented in the media and to have 10 their voices heard should be held as intrinsic and not 11 contingent. The CBC should reach communities where 12 there is limited choice of media or where media are 13 monopolized by a few companies. 14 1415 Whereas a private broadcaster has a 15 responsibility and a goal to return profit to its 16 shareholders, the profits CBC returns to its 17 shareholders, in other words Canadian citizens, are 18 less tangible. They are the profits that derive from 19 having citizens who have access to information about 20 the events and the topics that shape our country. They 21 are the profits that derive from having citizens who 22 have an opportunity to be part of an ongoing national 23 public debate. 24 1416 The key consideration in the valuing 25 of CBC should not be how many individuals tune in, but StenoTran 311 1 rather that citizens have the option to tune in and 2 that when they tune in, they have an opportunity to 3 hear Canadian stories in information and entertainment 4 programming. 5 1417 The next part is a nation in many 6 parts and the public of many visions. 7 1418 The CBC must continue to play a 8 special role in presenting Canadian programming. Some 9 would argue that the CBC should be -- that the role of 10 the CBC should be to sell -- to tell Canadian stories. 11 Stories of a young nation, a narrative of social and 12 political development. But there is no homogeneous 13 "Canadian" story to tell. The tale to be told, rather 14 is in Canadians stories -- I don't mean the hockey 15 team. 16 1419 Those stories have specificity, 17 content and depth that fully describe the people and 18 parts that come together to create Canada. Canadian 19 stories should make up the news -- the new stories that 20 allow us to understand each other and know what is 21 happening in the country. Stories of our arts and our 22 cultures, the stories of ordinary and extraordinary 23 Canadian's lives. The stories that are the products of 24 our experience, our neighbour's opinions and strongly 25 held beliefs. StenoTran 312 1 1420 The best, most direct way to tell 2 Canadian stories is to build strong local programming. 3 Unfortunately we believe that CBC as a corporation has 4 not always put its highest priority in providing 5 funding for local programming, particularly the 6 corporation has responded to pressure on budgets by 7 consolidating resources for national programming 8 broadcast from Canadian urban centres. 9 1421 In Prince Edward Island local 10 programming includes "Island Morning" for news and 11 information and "Main Street" for community cultural 12 events and items of interest on radio. And on 13 television "Compass" for local, regional and national 14 news, sports and weather. "Island Morning" continues 15 to be produced out of Charlottetown and continues to 16 offer news and analysis that spark consistent public 17 interest and debate. 18 1422 Weekday afternoon programming has 19 faced more challenged. Programming challenges dictated 20 from Toronto and is said to be dictated by the budget 21 cuts have deeply affected the content of the "Main 22 Street" program on Prince Edward Island. 23 1423 Recycle, generalized human interest 24 stories from across the country and programs from 25 Toronto have reduced the broadcasting time available to StenoTran 313 1 present more in-depth and specific coverage of music, 2 readings or performances by local people and to 3 interview local people about cultural events and 4 community happenings here. 5 1424 While the small staff remaining on 6 the "Main Street" program continue to present quality 7 local content, it does so under the duress of tight 8 budgets and rigid control from programmers in Toronto. 9 1425 The main threat to our only locally 10 produced television newscast comes from statistics. 11 When looked at from a national perspective, CBC supper 12 hour news program are losing their audiences. However, 13 not all individual local news programs are losing. In 14 the ratings that foretell the demise of CBC supper hour 15 shows, we find another reason that a national 16 perspective always needs to be balanced by a local 17 perspective. 18 1426 In Prince Edward Island, "Compass" 19 maintains astounding ratings for viewership, estimated 20 to be up to 80 per cent viewership. And the 21 presentations here today certainly reflect that. 22 1427 If "Compass" were replaced by 23 national programming, the logic -- or illogic in this 24 case -- or ratings would dictate that the program 25 should be designed specifically to cater most to the StenoTran 314 1 interest of the larger market. However, in the case of 2 the supper hour news, it is the largest markets where 3 the most competition from other media exist -- 4 1428 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir, you 5 have reached -- 6 1429 MR. DRISCOLL: -- whose ratings 7 are -- 8 1430 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, sir. Sorry 9 to interrupt you, you have reached the ten-minute mark. 10 So if you could conclude -- 11 1431 MR. DRISCOLL: I just have my 12 final -- 13 1432 MR. STEWART: I totally appreciate 14 it, thank you. 15 1433 MR. DRISCOLL: However, in the case 16 of the supper hour shows, it is the largest markets 17 where most competition from other media exists. The 18 importance of local stations is paramount. 19 1434 P.E.I. is small in size and 20 population, means that we are not well represented in 21 so-called "national" broadcasting. If we were better 22 represented at the regional level, it is because the 23 strength of our local station in Prince Edward Island 24 helps ensure that our province is well served in 25 regional programming. StenoTran 315 1 1435 However, to have local programming 2 subsumed under or replaced by regional programming 3 would not be an acceptable alternative to a well 4 maintained local CBC for Prince Edward Island. The 5 need to maintain a strong and vital and adequately 6 funded local CBC station with locally controlled radio 7 and television broadcasts is particularly important in 8 Prince Edward Island for one additional and important 9 reason. Prince Edward Island is a province. The most 10 recent historical commentators maintain that the true 11 building blocks of modern Canada are not the regions 12 but the provinces. 13 1436 Contemporary government functioning 14 and initiatives like the social union and other 15 increases in devolution and responsibilities from the 16 Federal Government to the provinces underscore the 17 importance of this premise. 18 1437 And finally, national programming 19 must be balanced by strong provincial programming that 20 addresses the issues, needs and concerns of the 21 provincial audience. Only by giving equal weight to 22 both can CBC fulfil its public mandate. 23 1438 Canada is much too large and much too 24 diverse to be culturally centred. The apparent trend 25 towards homogenization and centralization in StenoTran 316 1 programming goes against what is in fact has made CBC 2 relevant and attractive to Canadians. 3 1439 And in conclusion I'm going to 4 suggest a metaphor, an Island metaphor, one that goes 5 like this: One big grain of sand is a boulder not a 6 beach. Canada is a beach made up of multiple discreet 7 parts that come together to create a broader sense, an 8 ecosystem where the parts work together to create a 9 whole and sustain a population. One large centralized 10 broadcasting system would not serve Canada well. 11 1440 The nation and the public need 12 pebbles and sand, not boulders. 13 1441 Thank you very much. 14 --- Applause / Applaudissements 15 2114 16 1442 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Jane 17 Ledwell representing the P.E.I. Youth Council. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 1443 MS LEDWELL: Good evening. The 20 Prince Edward Island Youth Council is a relatively new 21 organization formed essentially within the last year to 22 represent Prince Edward Island youth between the ages 23 of 16 and 29 on issues of social, cultural, economic 24 and educational development. 25 1444 And I thank the other members of the StenoTran 317 1 Council who are here this evening for giving me the 2 privilege of being able to present the brief that they 3 have prepared. 4 1445 Whether or not young Canadians watch 5 CBC Television or listen to CBC Radio, the CBC is 6 hugely important to the nation's youth. Commercial 7 radio and television treat young people primarily as a 8 market for consumer products. Slickly packaged music, 9 fashionable clothing, snack foods, fast foods, acne 10 cures, perfumes, educational institutions and even 11 trendy vocabulary. Privately owned and operated 12 broadcasters all too often trivialize, patronize or 13 objectify youth as a niche market that increasingly has 14 money to burn. 15 1446 The benefit of having a national 16 public broadcaster whose programming is not totally 17 profit oriented or profit driven is that youth have an 18 opportunity to be seen not just as a vital market, but 19 also as a vital part of the community and the nation in 20 which we live. 21 1447 The CBC has undertaken several 22 initiatives to better represent young people in its 23 radio and television programming. One notable 24 initiative to appeal to younger radio listeners and to 25 include younger commentators in radio programming was a StenoTran 318 1 recent initiative of Radio One's program "Out Front" 2 for young people. It was an invitation to young people 3 to create documentaries about their experiences and 4 their concerns. 5 1448 Programs in the regular radio 6 schedule, such as Saturday afternoon's "Definitely Not 7 the Opera" presents a youth-centred quirky and critical 8 take on popular culture. And on television, 9 information programs such as "Street Sense" appeal to 10 younger youth and entertainment programs such as 11 popular comedy shows and series like last year's 12 "Twitch City" also play to youth sensibilities. 13 1449 Youth are not only an audience, 14 however. We are also a group that needs an audience. 15 The CBC not only has an important role in providing 16 information to young people, it also has a role in 17 providing opportunities for youth voices to be heard. 18 1450 At all levels, the CBC needs to 19 solicit the views of young people to set up 20 opportunities for youth to provide their insights on 21 issues that effect them and issues that effect the 22 wider community in which young people live. 23 1451 We, at the Prince Edward Island Youth 24 Council, would argue that where young people have the 25 greatest opportunity to have the greatest impact on StenoTran 319 1 their environment is in their local community. The 2 local CBC also provides the best opportunity to develop 3 local youth culture, to promote youth events, to 4 showcase talented young people and to provide 5 opportunities for young people to break into careers in 6 broadcasting related jobs. 7 1452 The local CBC helps youth in other 8 ways, as well. For instance, in the past year or two, 9 it was the local CBC in Prince Edward Island that 10 hosted and promoted a huge well-attended yard sale that 11 raised funds for two community youth centres. 12 1453 It's local broadcasting that's the 13 cornerstone of a national broadcasting system and it 14 should be the primary source of content for radio and 15 television whenever possible. National youth 16 programming that's invariably based in the urban 17 centres of the country cannot hope to provide a voice 18 for groups from rural areas and small communities, from 19 areas where the political issues and popular culture 20 are entirely different from those in the larger 21 markets. 22 1454 The Prince Edward Island Youth 23 Council was formed to work to give youth in Prince 24 Edward Island a voice on issues of social, cultural, 25 educational and economic development here in Prince StenoTran 320 1 Edward Island. We focus our attention on the community 2 in which we live to think globally and act locally, to 3 use the current catch phrase. But without local 4 broadcast media few people might hear about what 5 actions we strive to undertake. 6 1455 If budgets within the CBC were 7 re-allocated to local stations, the local stations that 8 form the key parts of the network, then more money for 9 local programming could also mean more money for youth 10 programming. 11 1456 The press forewarns us recently that 12 the CBC will probably soon seek a licence for a third 13 English-language radio service, Radio Three. A service 14 aimed at youth. Reports suggest that such a service 15 would cater to youth interest, primarily by playing 16 alternative music and broadcasting so-called "youth 17 oriented" news. 18 1457 While the idea certainly has merit, 19 the Youth Council has serious concerns that given the 20 current financial straits of the CBC, youth programming 21 would come at the expense of local broadcasting, which 22 would be, according to us, a regressive step. 23 1458 Likewise, if Radio Three were to 24 replace the thoughtful and analytical content on Radio 25 One and Radio Two with so much music filler on Radio StenoTran 321 1 Three, it would be an insult to Canada's thoughtful and 2 analytical young people who are concerned with serious 3 news. We have concerns that so-called "youth oriented" 4 news might be an euphemism for a kind of news light, 5 with watered-down content focused on trends and pop 6 culture at the expense of political and social, 7 economic and cultural analysis. 8 1459 When a licensed application for Radio 9 Three comes up for hearings before the CRTC, the P.E.I. 10 Youth Council hopes it will have another opportunity to 11 make a detailed submission to the CRTC to comment on 12 the licence application and the important relationship 13 between the national public broadcasting and Canada's 14 youth. 15 1460 In the meantime, the Council would 16 like to offer its support for the local CBC station and 17 locally controlled and produced radio and television 18 broadcasting where youth have an opportunity to make 19 their voices heard. 20 1461 Thank you. 21 --- Applause / Applaudissements 22 2155 23 1462 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Emery 24 to make her presentation. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 322 1 1463 MS EMERY: First of all, I want to 2 thank you for allowing me the time to express some of 3 my thoughts on the role of the CBC as a public 4 broadcaster. 5 1464 Although I do not have a television 6 in my home, by choice, CBC Radio has been an integral 7 part of my life for as long as I can remember. 8 1465 I was probably three or four when I 9 first heard Don Messer playing music on the radio from 10 a place called Halifax that was so far away from Red 11 Lake, Ontario, northwestern Ontario. The radio was 12 magic. 13 1466 Radio, to me, specifically CBC Radio, 14 has served ever since to educate me, inspire me and 15 loose my imagination to other planes of awareness that 16 ultimately become part of my every days. 17 1467 To me, art envelopes everything. 18 It's always waiting to happen. It often comes on 19 tip-toe, catching us by surprise. Turn on the radio, 20 turn on CBC Radio, and you can be changed by a word, a 21 thought an utterly inspired use of the spoken word. It 22 can come as a passage of music played by a full 23 orchestra or merely plucked by a single guitar. 24 1468 CBC Radio, I feel, should always be 25 able to accommodate these splendid moments, to produce StenoTran 323 1 them and broadcast to eager listeners all over the 2 country and abroad to enrich their lives, to enrich 3 their everyday lives. 4 1469 Non-commercially driven, the CBC 5 should serve to encourage its listeners to see more of 6 their lives than dollar signs, bottom lines and top ten 7 formula programming. We already have plenty of that 8 with the other radio stations. CBC Radio should be 9 different from the other radio stations. 10 1470 As an artist, I have appreciated the 11 venues that CBC Radio has provided for Canadian writers 12 to air their works on such programs as the "Mystery 13 Project", "Between the Covers", "Sunday Night 14 Showcase", the "Vinyl Cafe", the "Dead Dog Cafe". Be 15 strong, be brave, wait for the signs. 16 1471 It would be a litany to name them 17 all. I have also appreciated hearing the beautiful 18 readings of "The English Patient", "Larry's Party", 19 "Away", "The Stone Diaries". Such powerful stories so 20 well read to the point where the pictures struck in my 21 mind by such excellent work are as effective as if I 22 was seeing the piece projected onto a big screen. 23 1472 Work such as this should not fall to 24 the wayside; it should be encouraged. It should become 25 a part of the fabric of Canada, woven right through StenoTran 324 1 from one end of the country to the other. 2 1473 The support the CBC has afforded 3 Canadian artists, writers, actors, directors, 4 producers, musicians, technicians and thinkers is to be 5 commended. The CBC should, in my opinion, continue 6 doing this, if indeed it is considered to be important 7 that the imagination, the soul, as well as the body, be 8 nurtured and fed. 9 1474 Thank you. 10 --- Applause / Applaudissements 11 1475 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 12 Thank you. 13 2126 14 1476 M. STEWART: J'inviterais maintenant 15 M. Edgar Arsenault à faire sa présentation. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 1477 M. RICHARD: Mesdames et messieurs, 18 bonsoir. Je m'appelle Antoine Richard et je suis le 19 Président de la Société Saint-Thomas D'Aquin. 20 1478 Je tiens à remercier le CRTC de 21 l'opportunité qui nous est offerte de participer aux 22 consultations publiques sur la Société Radio-Canada. 23 1479 La Société Saint-Thomas D'Aquin est 24 la société acadienne de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard 25 représentant une population d'Acadiens, d'Acadiennes et StenoTran 325 1 de francophones dynamique au nombre approximatif de 2 6 000. Quand on parle de la population susceptible 3 d'utiliser les services de la Société Radio-Canada et 4 ses chaînes spécialisées, il ne faut surtout pas 5 négliger la population insulaire bilingue représentant, 6 selon Statistiques Canada, 11 pour cent de la 7 population totale de la province. 8 1480 En premier lieu, rappelons que la 9 Société Radio-Canada est tenue de favoriser 10 l'épanouissement des communautés de langues officielles 11 en vertu de la Partie VII de la Loi sur les langues 12 officielles. Les coupures de budget qu'a subies la 13 Société ont provoqué une restructuration d'envergure 14 dans certaines régions et ceci a certainement eu un 15 effet néfaste sur nos communautés vivant en minorité. 16 1481 Dès 1997, la réorganisation 17 administrative et la réaffectation de certains ponts, 18 surtout dans les stations radiophoniques les plus 19 touchées par les coupures, a permis d'apaiser quelque 20 peu nos inquiétudes au point de vue des services et de 21 la qualité de la programmation pour la Société 22 Radio-Canada. Jusqu'à un certain point, la nouvelle 23 stratégie de programmation en fonction des besoins des 24 minorités semble avoir eu des effets positifs mais elle 25 laisse tout de même matière à amélioration. StenoTran 326 1 1482 Afin de bien refléter les opinions de 2 la communauté dans son entièreté, nous avons recueilli 3 divers commentaires que nous avons regroupés en trois 4 parties: commentaires positifs, des choses à améliorer 5 et des suggestions. 6 1483 Sur une note positive, les 7 commentaires positifs portent surtout sur la présence 8 accrue de la Société Radio-Canada à l'Île. 9 1484 Le centre de production à 10 Charlottetown et "CBAF Bonjour": Nous profitons de 11 cette occasion pour renouveler nos sentiments de 12 satisfaction par rapport à l'ouverture du centre de 13 production qui nous permet, entre autres, d'avoir sur 14 les ondes "CBAF Bonjour", une émission produite à l'Île 15 par des gens vivant au sein de notre communauté. 16 L'équipe nous renseigne sur les diverses activités qui 17 nous touchent et nous offre également une fenêtre par 18 laquelle les Acadiens, Acadiennes et francophones 19 peuvent se faire entendre et se faire valoir. Il est 20 primordial que le studio demeure à Charlottetown. 21 1485 Présence de la communauté insulaire 22 sur les ondes: La population remarque le fait que 23 certaines émissions aient été filmées à l'Île, mettant 24 en évidence la vitalité de notre communauté, bien que 25 beaucoup concentrées sur la région Évangéline. StenoTran 327 1 L'émission "Trajectoire" a présenté les profils 2 d'artistes telles que Jacinthe Laforêt et Anne Gallant 3 durant l'été 1998. "Le Jour du Seigneur" a couvert une 4 messe à Mont Carmel et une à Baie Egmont. Les "Gens en 5 affaires"(ph) ont également eus des vedettes à la 6 télévision au cours de l'année. 7 1486 L'émission radiophonique "Déclic!", 8 produite à l'automne en provenance du Carrefour de 9 l'Île Saint-Jean, est une expérience qu'il faut répéter 10 afin de permettre à notre communauté de s'exprimer et 11 de se faire mieux connaître auprès des autres 12 francophones de l'Atlantique. Il est indispensable de 13 sauvegarder l'équipe de journalistes et cameramen qui 14 produit également des reportages pour le réseau RDI, 15 reportages qui sont très écoutés dans le cadre de "Ce 16 Soir Moncton" mais pas souvent dans la version 17 intégrale sur les ondes du RDI. 18 1487 La Société Radio-Canada à l'écoute 19 des préoccupations de la communauté: Il faut 20 mentionner aussi une participation accrue de la part 21 des dirigeants de la Société Radio-Canada qui fut 22 présente lors de diverses consultations 23 interministérielles ainsi que lors du forum 97. Nous 24 pensons que ceci permet aux responsables de la 25 programmation de mieux comprendre la dynamique de notre StenoTran 328 1 communauté. 2 1488 À améliorer: La remarque la plus 3 fréquente porte sur le contenu très québécois de la 4 Société Radio-Canada, voire même montréalais. Que ce 5 soit sur les ondes télédiffusées ou radiophoniques, les 6 émissions ne rencontrent pas toujours les besoins des 7 Acadiens, Acadiennes et francophones des Maritimes. La 8 majeure partie des émissions s'adresse aux habitants du 9 Québec et ne tient pas compte des communautés 10 d'expression française du reste du Canada. 11 1489 Sur ce point, la Société Radio-Canada 12 a la responsabilité de desservir uniformément toutes 13 les communautés. Elle doit mieux remplir son rôle en 14 augmentant la participation de ces communautés, que ce 15 soit au niveau de la production ou du contenu lui-même. 16 1490 Par la voie de son rapport d'étude 17 spécial au Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des 18 télécommunications canadiennes et la câblodistribution, 19 publié en décembre 1996, le Commissaires aux Langues 20 officielles indique: 21 "Nous reconnaissons l'importance 22 de la radiodiffusion comme outil 23 de soutien et de développement 24 pour les communautés de langue 25 minoritaire." (Tel que lu) StenoTran 329 1 1491 La Société Radio-Canada doit se 2 servir de son pouvoir de diffuser en démontrant 3 davantage la vitalité et les accomplissements des 4 francophones. Il faut mettre en évidence les petits 5 succès individuels et communautaires non seulement de 6 l'Île mais des autres communautés. On veut connaître 7 les efforts et les succès des francophones vivant au 8 Canada et on veut faire connaître les nôtres, et ce, 9 dans tous les domaines. 10 1492 La Société Radio-Canada se doit de 11 bien informer nos communautés, que ce soit au plan des 12 nouvelles nationales et régionales qui les touchent: 13 des informations météorologiques, de la vie culturelle, 14 économique et politique, et le reste. 15 1493 Grand nombre de personnes regardent 16 les informations sur les ondes de la CBC à 17 Charlottetown "Compass" afin d'être véritablement 18 informées sur les événements de la journée. Il est 19 évident que les deux ou trois minutes accordées lors 20 d'émissions d'information en français à la télévision 21 ou à la radio ne sont guère suffisantes pour refléter 22 notre communauté. 23 1494 Au niveau national, la programmation 24 est très québécoise et au niveau régional, elle est 25 axée sur le Nouveau-Brunswick. On parle souvent de StenoTran 330 1 l'Acadie comme étant existante principalement au 2 Nouveau-Brunswick. On se voit trop peu. On s'entend 3 trop peu. Bien qu'il y ait eu certaines améliorations, 4 le mandat régional de la Société Radio-Canada doit être 5 révisé afin de mieux rejoindre nos besoins. 6 1495 Nous voulons ouvrir une parenthèse 7 ici et souligner la mauvaise qualité de réception des 8 ondes radiophoniques dans la région de Prince ouest. 9 De plus, mentionnons que les personnes possèdent une 10 antenne parabolique et ne captent pas la programmation 11 en provenance de Moncton mais celle de Montréal, par 12 exemple, l'émission "Ce Soir". 13 1496 Suggestion: Que les émissions 14 produit au Québec prennent en considération l'existence 15 d'un auditoire francophone hors Québec. Par exemple, 16 l'émission "La Facture" pourrait adresser des cas hors 17 du Québec et renseigner les consommatrices et les 18 consommateurs sur les droits en indiquant les 19 divergences qui existent selon les lois des provinces. 20 1497 "La Semaine verte", qui touche 21 l'agriculture, l'élevage, les pêches, l'environnement 22 et le reste, pourrait représenter davantage les régions 23 de l'Atlantique. Les émissions culturelles doivent 24 mieux refléter la créativité de nos insulaires acadiens 25 et francophones en utilisant leur capacité et leurs StenoTran 331 1 produits. 2 1498 Les émissions produites au Québec 3 doivent favoriser la participation des individus qui 4 habitent dans les régions éloignées. Par exemple, les 5 bulletins de participation aux divers concours sont 6 souvent publiés uniquement dans des revues ou des 7 journaux québécois que nous ne recevons pas à l'Île. 8 1499 Que la production d'émissions 9 régionales soit augmentée afin d'en diversifier les 10 sujets et qu'elle soit plus représentative de la 11 réalité de nos communautés. Ceci offrirait à notre 12 population l'occasion de s'exprimer et de participer 13 activement aux productions qui les feront mieux 14 connaître au niveau de l'Atlantique et au niveau 15 national. 16 1500 La Société Radio-Canada doit utiliser 17 davantage des bulletins communautaires et notre journal 18 "La Voix acadienne" pour informer les Acadiennes, 19 Acadiens et francophones des émissions qui les touchent 20 et qui les mettent particulièrement en évidence. 21 1501 Services spécialisées: Il serait 22 intéressant d'étudier la possibilité qu'une chaîne de 23 services spécialisées soit exclusivement consacrée aux 24 communautés d'expression française du pays et que cette 25 chaîne soit offerte dans la programmation de base des StenoTran 332 1 câblodistributeurs. 2 1502 Au sujet de RDI, nous sommes heureux 3 de constater que le Réseau de l'information est 4 distribué par le câblodistributeur insulaire bien qu'il 5 ne couvre pas tout l'Île et que RDI est inclut dans la 6 programmation de base offerte pour les régions de 7 Charlottetown et d'Ingonish. Il est en effet ironique 8 de constater que le bureau régional dessert la région 9 francophone la plus dense, la région Évangéline, 90 10 pour cent de francophones, et offre le RDI sur son 11 service facultatif et donc à un coût additionnel. 12 1503 En conclusion, bien qu'il y ait eu un 13 certain nombre d'améliorations apportées à la 14 programmation, la population acadienne et francophone 15 de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard ne se reconnaît pas 16 suffisamment dans la programmation ouverte sur les 17 ondes de Radio-Canada et de la télévision de 18 Radio-Canada. 19 1504 La programmation offerte présentement 20 par la Société Radio-Canada est axée principalement sur 21 les événements québécois et s'adresse 22 presqu'exclusivement à la population québécoise. 23 1505 Bien que nous comprenons les 24 contraintes budgétaires, nous suggérons que la Société 25 Radio-Canada augmente la réalisation d'émissions sur StenoTran 333 1 place, par exemple, l'émission "Déclic", ainsi que la 2 couverture d'événements communautaires tels les 3 festivals et les spectacles. Bien souvent, les 4 activités qui se déroulent en soirée ou durant les fins 5 de semaine ne sont pas couvertes. Nous apprécierions 6 vivement les efforts faits dans ce sens et sommes 7 convaincus des retombées positives sur notre 8 communauté. 9 1506 Enfin, nous ne voulons pas être 10 seulement les récepteurs, nous voulons être des 11 participants. La Société Radio-Canada se doit 12 d'identifier son rôle face à la langue et à la 13 diversité de la culture des diverses régions. Elle a 14 un rôle de conscience sociale à jouer. 15 1507 Si la Société Radio-Canada ne fait 16 pas plus d'efforts de se rapprocher des communautés 17 d'expression française de l'extérieur du Québec, elle 18 risque de perdre davantage de terrain. À ce niveau, 19 les radios communautaires ont relativement plus de 20 succès et semblent combler jusqu'à un certain point ce 21 manque. 22 1508 La Société Radio-Canada ne doit pas 23 limiter sa représentativité des régions au secteur 24 culturel mais doit assumer pleinement son rôle au 25 niveau de sa contribution dans l'épanouissement et le StenoTran 334 1 développement social et politique des communautés. 2 1509 À cet effet, nous sommes d'avis que 3 le CRTC joue un rôle de première instance et doit se 4 montrer vigilant afin de favoriser l'épanouissement des 5 minorités francophones et anglophones du pays et 6 d'appuyer leur développement. Nous vous encourageons à 7 poursuivre vos efforts en la matière. 8 1510 Je vous remercie de votre attention. 9 --- Applause / Applaudissements 10 1511 LA PRÉSIDENTE DU CONSEIL: Merci. 11 2137 12 1512 MR. STEWART: I now invite Ms Perry 13 to make her presentation. 14 1513 MS PERRY: Welcome to Prince Edward 15 Island. 16 1514 Does anyone know what "Recoil" is? 17 Actually, I was listening to CBC Radio as I was coming 18 into Charlottetown and one of the people had a phone 19 interview with someone from Stockholm and they're in 20 the process of marketing a substance they call 21 "Recoil". What it is, it's a skunk smell in a capsule 22 and it was invented by a Canadian professor, 23 apparently, who wanted his daughters to use it as a 24 protection and you can wear it on your bra or 25 underclothes and you give it a good hard press when StenoTran 335 1 you're attacked and it gives off this awful skunk 2 smell. 3 1515 I learned this on CBC Radio. 4 --- Laughter / Rires 5 1516 MS PERRY: My daughter was quite 6 interested in it, as well. I hope that's making her 7 into a CBC listener. 8 1517 Actually, perhaps my hair isn't that 9 grey yet, but it's getting there. And I identified 10 with some of these mentions of programs way back when, 11 like "The Happy Gang" and "The Don Messer Show" and the 12 "Sing-along Jubilee" and the radio farm broadcast with 13 the Farm family, I think they had a different one down 14 here in the Maritimes from what we had in the Prairies. 15 I'm a transplanted westerner. "Rawhide", the "Gordy 16 Tapp Show", or pet "Juliette" a home-grown Manitoba 17 entertainer. 18 1518 As you can see, I have been a 19 long-time TV and radio, CBC, watcher. The "Plouffe 20 Family", "This Hour Has Seven Days", "Tommy Hunter 21 Show" and now I'm looking -- I'm a fan of the Saturday 22 and Sunday radio broadcasts, "The Vinyl Cafe", so forth 23 on -- let's get back to Prince Edward Island. 24 1519 When we moved here in 1985, it was 25 CBC Radio and Television that put me in touch with what StenoTran 336 1 was happening here in the community in Prince Edward 2 Island. The regional -- some of your regional local 3 coverage, "Island Morning", Ian Petrie's news 4 coverage -- I'm a fan of his type of coverage. David 5 Weale's "Long Way from the Road", "Main Street" which 6 covers everything that's culture and important from the 7 rural part of Prince Edward Island, as well as in the 8 town. 9 1520 I could go on and on with how our 10 local regional coverage has made me feel that I was in 11 touch and in tune with what was happening in this 12 province, our new home. But I also needed to be in 13 touch with the rest of Canada and we had some very 14 eloquent speakers. Danny Finkleman, I know -- hey, I'm 15 from that era, I identify with the kind of music he 16 plays and his commentary. They also have a very a good 17 blues show after that on CBC Radio. 18 1521 I like the TV documentaries, "Big 19 Bear", the Mount Cashel documentary, the story of Louis 20 Riel, the Japanese Canadian story, this all made -- 21 things that we should have known and been taught in 22 school when I was going to school and I would venture 23 to say my children certainly didn't get this kind of 24 information -- became something that we were made aware 25 of as Canadians. StenoTran 337 1 1522 I'm a second generation Canadian from 2 the prairie provinces. My grandparents immigrated over 3 here from eastern Europe. Needless to say, even my 4 parents didn't identify as Canadians; but it was CBC 5 Radio and Television that made Canadians out of myself 6 and my family. 7 1523 The "Don Messer Show", even my 8 father, you know, he had -- my family are musical, 9 fiddle music, country, you know, that kind of thing was 10 important to my family. They played in Regina, a radio 11 program, so forth and so on. But when they heard Don 12 Messer, hey, they came alive. There was another part 13 of Canada and it was us and they could identify with 14 that music. 15 1524 "Sing-Along Jubilee", Anne Murray, 16 you know, all these people suddenly were ours. They 17 weren't Nashville. You know, they were our 18 entertainers. 19 1525 As a matter of fact, at one time my 20 father and his brothers, you know, raised in the dust 21 bowl of southern Saskatchewan actually entertained 22 going across the border to the United States to follow 23 some of their entertainment dreams. Thank the good 24 Lord they didn't go. 25 1526 Gordy Tapp, you know, all these StenoTran 338 1 people suddenly became -- they were our people, they 2 were our culture, we were hearing stories about 3 ourselves. 4 1527 I have to admit that I grew up in the 5 fifties and sixties when, you know, the high bouffant, 6 the hairstyles, the short mini skirts and going out and 7 having a ball as a young woman out, you know, on the 8 town. I certainly wasn't listening to CBC Radio and 9 TV. But somehow it crept in. And suddenly there was 10 the issue of the Canadian flag and there was the issue 11 of being Canada and it was the only place we were 12 hearing about it was on CBC. 13 1528 And I have to say now, my kids, my 14 oldest is 24, she listens to "Definitely Not the 15 Opera", she listens to the commentary, she listens to 16 the other crap that's on the other stations and it 17 doesn't do anything for her. She turns to CBC and, you 18 know, it's critical. She can think. 19 1529 My younger daughter, who is still in 20 university here, is starting to pay attention a little 21 more, too, especially now I told her about "Recoil". 22 My son, 19-year old son, who is in university here in 23 Prince Edward Island, sits down and watches and listens 24 to the documentary. He doesn't just watch "Jonovision" 25 and "Street Sense", he looks at "Venture" and StenoTran 339 1 "Marketplace" and "the fifth estate" and analyses and 2 critiques them. And yet he and some of his friends 3 have a rock band, you know. So there are young people 4 out there who want to have serious television. 5 1530 And I would say, don't separate them 6 off in another channel somewhere. Have them 7 listening -- we listen to them, we hear their stories, 8 their music, we may not like it, but I will tell you, I 9 have learned a lot just listening to some of the stuff 10 that, you know, like "Twitch" is it? But my son got a 11 real kick out of it and I had to pay attention because, 12 you know, what's it in, what's he getting out of this, 13 you know. 14 1531 My husband is also a big fan. He's 15 working in western Saskatchewan right now, and I know 16 he wants to hear what's happening in the Maritimes, you 17 know. So when we hear about the ice storm, we hear 18 about the Red River flood, we hear in Quebec what's 19 happening, you know, the flood in Quebec. We hear 20 what's happening with the fisheries crisis, the closing 21 of the mine. We need to know this, this is our 22 country, our story. 23 1532 So, in closing I want to say that 24 let's make sure that our CBC employees are treated 25 fairly and justly. And I agree that I feel there is a StenoTran 340 1 political agenda, there is a bottom line that is being 2 looked at and our employees, locally and nationally in 3 CBC need to be given a fair deal, get going at the 4 negotiations table, get a settlement that makes our CBC 5 people happy, because if they're happy, they're going 6 to be concentrating on giving us good programming. And 7 I don't know what power you carry, but I certainly want 8 to add my message on that front. 9 1533 I want to add my support to a public 10 broadcast that is truly a public broadcast. I don't 11 want to sell lotto tickets, I would much rather have my 12 tax dollars going towards paying for a public 13 broadcast. I think they need to have their funding, 14 not only replaced, but increased and make it -- it's 15 Canada, they're essential to us as being a country and 16 we have a lot of new Canadians here and I think it's 17 important to them to feel that they're part of the 18 Canadian society. 19 1534 Thank you very much. 20 --- Applause / Applaudissements 21 2147 22 1535 M. STEWART: Maintenant, j'inviterais 23 Mme Marie-Claire Paulin-Karé à faire sa présentation. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 1536 MME PAULIN-KARÉ: Bonsoir. StenoTran 341 1 J'aimerais d'abord remercier les commissaires de se 2 rendre dans ce coin-ci du pays pour entendre un peu 3 qu'est-ce qu'on pense et nos constats par rapport au 4 travail que Radio-Canada fait depuis des années ici 5 dans la région. 6 1537 Je dois dire que c'est la deuxième 7 fois que j'ai l'opportunité de passer devant le CRTC. 8 La première fois c'était au Nouveau-Brunswick à 9 Bathurst en 1987 et c'était lors de l'octroi de la 10 licence de la première radio communautaire francophone 11 à diffuser à l'extérieur du Québec, CKRO à 12 Porte-Mouche(ph). Donc, je viens du Nouveau-Brunswick 13 et je ne peux pas m'empêcher de faire une petite 14 parenthèse. 15 1538 Je n'ai rien de préparer. On m'a mal 16 compris. Je ne devais pas faire de présentation mais 17 si ce n'est que de réaffirmer un peu ce que mes 18 confrères ont pu dire ici par rapport à la réalité 19 qu'on vit ici en tant que minoritaires, en tant 20 qu'Acadiens et francophones à l'Île. Il est sûr que 21 Radio-Canada, surtout à la télé, ce qu'on voit c'est un 22 contenu très montréalais, très québécois. On 23 s'identifie très peu, très peu à ça. 24 1539 Je dois dire que j'ai vécu à 25 l'étranger pendant quelques années. Ça fait un peu StenoTran 342 1 moins d'un an que je suis de retour au pays. Je peux 2 voir quand même une nette amélioration, que ce soit au 3 niveau de la radio ou au niveau de la télé. Mais je 4 pense qu'il faut toujours s'améliorer, toujours essayer 5 de voir ce qui se passe. Je vois à Moncton quand même 6 de nettes améliorations par rapport à leur 7 programmation qu'ils essayent de rendre un peu plus 8 locale. 9 1540 Le centre de production à 10 Charlottetown: je pense que la dernière fois que le 11 CRTC a étudié une demande de licence de Radio-Canada, 12 il n'y avait pas de centre de production locale ici à 13 Charlottetown. Maintenant, on en a un. Je félicite 14 Radio-Canada d'avoir pris cette initiative-là, mais on 15 n'a quand même que trois heures de production locale. 16 1541 Ça serait peut-être intéressant de 17 pouvoir penser, un moment donné, de s'entendre un peu 18 plus. Je pense que les francophones... c'est que la 19 radio surtout c'est un moyen primordial de 20 développement, surtout pour les minorités qui vivent 21 ici à l'Île ou dans d'autres provinces du Canada. 22 1542 Alors, je ne m'éterniserai pas. Je 23 voudrais juste, en fait, appuyer ce que mes confrères 24 ont dit auparavant et je voudrais juste terminer sur 25 quelque chose que j'ai vu avant hier à la télévision. StenoTran 343 1 C'est l'émission "Musicotrip"(ph). C'est une émission 2 de jeunes qui va d'ailleurs venir à Charlottetown au 3 mois d'avril, au Carrefour de l'Île Saint-Jean. 4 1543 Ça m'a vraiment, vraiment étonné. On 5 voyait "Musicotrip" à 1700; 1600 au Québec. Alors, je 6 pense qu'il y a des efforts qui sont faits dans ce sens 7 et c'est vraiment intéressant de voir quand même qu'il 8 y a certaines productions qui sont faites à Moncton que 9 les gens du Québec vont pouvoir voir, et j'espère bien, 10 le reste du Canada. Alors, j'aimerais féliciter un peu 11 cette initiative-là. 12 1544 Alors, c'est un peu tout ce que 13 j'avais à dire. Je vous remercie. 14 --- Applaudissements / Applause 15 1545 LA PRÉSIDENTE DU CONSEIL: Merci, 16 Madame. Merci. 17 1546 MR. STEWART: The next presenter is 18 listed as the representative of the Indian River 19 Festival Association. Is there such a person in the 20 room? 21 1547 Can that person identify himself or 22 herself? No. 23 1548 Therefore, I will now invite 24 Ms Evelyn Feldstein to make her presentation. 25 1549 Is Ms Feldstein in the room? No. StenoTran 344 1 2151 2 1550 Alors, j'invite M. Alex Robert à 3 faire sa présentation. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 1551 M. ROBERT: Merci. Bonsoir à tous. 6 Bonsoir Madame la Présidente. Bonsoir aux Membres et 7 au personnel du CRTC qui sont ici ce soir et mesdames 8 et messieurs qui sont dans l'audience. 9 1552 Je voudrais commencer par vous 10 féliciter de vous être déplacés puis d'aller rencontrer 11 les gens, d'aller écouter ce que les gens ont à dire au 12 sujet de CBC et de Radio-Canada. Je pense que c'est 13 comme ça que vous allez vraiment prendre le pouls de la 14 population, voir ce que les régions, ce que les 15 différentes provinces et les différentes communautés 16 ont besoin. 17 1553 Puis quand j'ai constaté que vous 18 aviez l'intention de tenir des audiences publiques, 19 j'étais à la fois curieux et intrigué, puis aussi 20 j'avais un peu le désir de venir m'exprimer face à 21 l'avenir puis au rôle de Radio-Canada. Vraiment, 22 personnellement, c'est plutôt en tant que membre du 23 public ordinaire. 24 1554 J'ai été très, très heureux 25 d'entendre les commentaires qui ont été faits ici ce StenoTran 345 1 soir. J'ai trouvé que c'était très pertinent. J'ai 2 trouvé que les gens avaient des approches intéressantes 3 face à Radio-Canada et puis on a certainement exprimé 4 ici aujourd'hui un appui inconditionnel à la 5 programmation de Radio-Canada au niveau du réseau 6 anglais, CBC, au niveau de la radio et de la 7 télévision. 8 1555 Puis, je désire m'inscrire peut-être 9 au procès-verbal des rencontres en tant qu'une voix de 10 plus pour appuyer la programmation de Radio-Canada, 11 appuyer les gens qui font cette programmation, et puis 12 aussi un voeu de plus qui va s'exprimer pour que la 13 qualité qu'on retrouve à Radio-Canada va continuer dans 14 les années à venir et puis pour longtemps. 15 1556 Au sujet du rôle de Radio-Canada, 16 j'ai peut-être quelques observations assez générales. 17 Je n'ai pas préparé de présentation détaillée, mais 18 tout simplement en tant qu'avis personnel, j'ai le 19 sentiment qu'on en a pour notre argent avec 20 Radio-Canada. C'est de l'argent qui est bien dépensé 21 et bien investi. 22 1557 C'est un investissement dans notre 23 culture. C'est un investissement dans notre avenir et 24 puis dans la culture, les arts, la programmation 25 artistique et culturelle, les chansons, tout ce qu'on StenoTran 346 1 retrouve à Radio-Canada. C'est ça qui fait la culture 2 d'une société, puis c'est ça qui est le sang qui 3 circule dans les veines d'une société. Puis, c'est 4 très, très important. 5 1558 Je ne travaille pas dans ce 6 domaine-là. Je n'ai vraiment pas de connaissances 7 particulières dans le domaine des arts et de la 8 culture, mais j'aime toujours constater la 9 programmation de qualité qu'on retrouve à Radio-Canada. 10 1559 Au sujet des priorités stratégiques 11 ou peut-être les directions que l'organisation devrait 12 prendre, j'ai l'impression que Radio-Canada ne peut pas 13 être partout à la fois. Radio-Canada ne peut pas tout 14 faire, ne peut pas être un intervenant qui va aller 15 viser la niche commerciale et en même temps le haut de 16 gamme. Je pense que Radio-Canada doit se concentrer et 17 trouver son créneau où elle va pouvoir être efficace et 18 aller vraiment chercher un public. 19 1560 Au niveau du haut de gamme, c'est là 20 que Radio-Canada devrait se concentrer, à mon avis: la 21 programmation un peu plus sophistiquée, des émissions 22 qu'on ne retrouverait pas traditionnellement dans les 23 réseaux commerciaux. Puis il y a un vide, surtout 24 peut-être en français. Je parle surtout du réseau 25 français étant donné que c'est celui-là que j'écoute le StenoTran 347 1 plus au niveau de la radio et de la télévision et puis 2 il y a un rôle très, très important qui est joué par 3 Radio-Canada face à ça. 4 1561 Puis c'est important que la 5 corporation continue d'être libre d'intervention 6 politique pour pouvoir être indépendante et objective 7 et puis continue à faire le même travail de qualité 8 qu'elle a fait. 9 1562 Donc, c'est à peu près ça. Je 10 souhaite que Radio-Canada puisse continuer à faire le 11 travail de qualité qu'ils ont commencé à faire et puis 12 ça ça vient tout simplement d'un citoyen ordinaire, 13 quelqu'un qui écoute la télévision dans son automobile 14 quand il s'en va travailler ou qui s'assoit le soir 15 avec un sac de chips et puis avec une bière de temps en 16 temps pour écouter la télévision et puis qui apprécie 17 beaucoup les choses qu'on retrouve là-dedans. 18 1563 Merci beaucoup et puis si vous avez 19 des questions particulières ou si vous avez des 20 questionnements sur le rôle ou l'avenir de 21 Radio-Canada, je pense que tout le monde qui est ici 22 peut vous aider face à ça. 23 1564 LA PRÉSIDENTE DU CONSEIL: Merci, 24 Monsieur Robert, mais j'espère vraiment que vous ne 25 regardez pas la télévision dans votre voiture parce que StenoTran 348 1 ça serait un grand problème pour la circulation à 2 Charlottetown. Merci beaucoup. 3 2155 4 1565 MR. STEWART: The next listed 5 presenter has indicated that he will not be attending. 6 That is Mr. Patrick Kinnear. 7 1566 So I invite Ms Mary MacNeil to -- 8 MacNeil or MacNell, unfortunately this is a faxed copy, 9 so -- to make her presentation. 10 1567 MS MacNEIL: Okay. As a Canadian and 11 a past federal employee of Veterans' Affairs for 22 12 years, I could give many practical, if not patriotic 13 reasons for maintaining the Canadian Broadcasting 14 Corporation. 15 1568 As a representative for the past four 16 years for the Public Service Alliance of Canada I have 17 seen first hand the demoralizing effect on workers and 18 communities by federal cut-backs, devolution, 19 privatization and the selling out of essential Canadian 20 services. 21 1569 However, I would like to focus my 22 comments from the perspective as a parent of three very 23 creative children. Instilling values and creativity 24 and pride in who you are and where you come from is a 25 challenge. Acceptance of your roots and StenoTran 349 1 acknowledgement of your culture and opportunities at 2 your local home base to share your talents are a few of 3 the ingredients required to achieve this. 4 1570 I will focus on my two oldest, my two 5 sons, that are now 19 and 22. They only turn the radio 6 dial to CBC. That's very consistent in our house. CBC 7 TV with the odd deviation to MuchMusic is also a 8 regular viewed channel in our home. The CBC has 9 definitely been a strong influence in my two sons' 10 lives. 11 1571 My 19-year old son wrote a short 12 script at age 16 and was lucky enough to sell it to an 13 acting camp for teenagers in Kensington, P.E.I. A CBC 14 reporter, Matthew Rainnie on "Main Street" interviewed 15 him concerning this script. The recognition and the 16 support was very encouraging for my son. Today he has 17 completed three scripts and he's 19. He now does 18 occasional movie reviews on CBC also, he has that 19 opportunity on "Main Street". His university studies 20 now centre around English and his career plans are in 21 the world of arts and entertainment. There's no 22 question about that. 23 1572 My oldest son is presently -- he's 24 just finished three years university and is applying to 25 continue his education in journalism at King's College. StenoTran 350 1 He has worked with the medium and while for the last 2 few years on the radio stations of the universities and 3 he started writing articles at age 17 and since the age 4 of 17 he's written for a music magazine in Cape Breton. 5 He just recently, in the last year, was the media 6 coordinator for the Cape Breton Celtic Colours and I 7 think he did a good job on that. 8 1573 His inspirations were love for 9 traditional music and the local support and recognition 10 of such music which CBC always provided. 11 1574 In closing, I would like to read a 12 short article my oldest son wrote when he was only 18 13 years old, it appeared in the "Guardian" in December 14 1995, it was after somebody wrote a criticism of the 15 CBC and I woke up one morning to read this in the 16 paper. 17 "Visions of friendly giants and 18 tickle trunk stands to my head. 19 As I read the article ..." 20 1575 I won't give the name of the other 21 person that was condemning the CBC. 22 "... attempted to discredit the 23 Canadian Broadcasting 24 Corporation's contribution to 25 society by way of the good old StenoTran 351 1 tube, I would say that this is a 2 rather daunting task for an 3 individual who admits to not 4 being familiar with the station 5 and is willing to use every 6 unscientific method available. 7 It is debateable whether or not 8 the CBC actually defines the 9 Canadian identity, but I would 10 bet my baby finger that it is a 11 medium that reflects our culture 12 from sea to sea to sea. For 13 starters, has anybody ever heard 14 of 'Hockey Night in Canada'? 15 Besides covering sports, the CBC 16 provides an outlet for Canadian 17 cinema like 'The Boys of St. 18 Vincent, 'Gross Misconduct' and 19 lest we forget 'Anne of Green 20 Gables'. Shows in the past like 21 'Kids in the Hall', 'Codco' were 22 not afraid to poke fun at 23 ourselves. And comics and 'This 24 Hour Has 22 Minutes' continue to 25 give us -- give comics a forum StenoTran 352 1 to showcase their talents. The 2 CBC can reflect our interesting 3 side and it is a shame that too 4 many are too Americanized to 5 realize this. CBC's Peter 6 Mansbridge knows he could scoot 7 off to any of the big US 8 networks, but I'm sure he sees 9 'The National' as a high-class 10 news program and not some trashy 11 sensationalist ratings machine. 12 'The fifth estate' gives us an 13 investigative depth in reporting 14 that is second to none. Heck, 15 it was worthy of an Oscar, 16 wasn't it? 'Venture' is there 17 to give us the ins and outs on 18 the business world. Americans 19 make better TV. Where should we 20 start? A spin-off series of 21 Joey Lawrence's 'Full House', 22 'Saved By the Bell', don't 23 forget those college years, 'Bay 24 Watch', various soaps and most 25 talk shows. The large American StenoTran 353 1 networks, NBC, ABC, Fox and CBS 2 shouldn't be compared with our 3 little CBC. PBS would be the 4 closest thing and it is just a 5 matter of time before the CBC 6 will have to resort to its own 7 fund-raising drives to survive, 8 that is if people really don't 9 want the CBC to be there. Do I 10 smell another referendum? Ian 11 MacLeod(ph)" 12 1576 Thank you. 13 --- Applause / Applaudissements 14 2200 15 1577 MR. STEWART: Madame la Présidente, 16 that concludes the speakers for today -- or this 17 evening, rather. And with your permission, I would 18 invite the CBC to make any comments that they choose to 19 do. 20 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 21 1578 MS MITTON: Thank you, I will be very 22 brief. It's late, it's been a wonderful evening 23 however. 24 1579 I would like to thank the Commission 25 again for making the effort to come to Charlottetown. StenoTran 354 1 And I'm sorry, I'm tired. I should introduce myself, 2 it's Susan Mitton, Regional Director of Radio for CBC. 3 1580 I'm sure that Barbara Lowther(ph), 4 our local station manager here and all the folks who 5 work at the station have been heartened and humbled, 6 frankly, by what they have heard tonight. It's a huge 7 responsibility, there are challenges ahead, but we 8 believe we have the creative people with the heart and 9 mind to continue to offer the best service we can to 10 Prince Edward Islanders, both at the local, regional 11 and national level. 12 1581 The one other thing I would like to 13 say about an exercise like this is the CBC can go to 14 Ottawa and present and speak to the CRTC ourselves and 15 say, "Gee, people listen to us, the people that pay for 16 us, the people that own us, the people that listen and 17 watch us really do care about us and value the 18 service", but it always comes across sounding a little 19 self-serving. 20 1582 So I think an exercise like this, I 21 commend you for going yourselves across the country to 22 11 locations and we certainly appreciate your presence 23 and we could never say it, frankly, as eloquently as 24 these people have spoken tonight. So thank you all. 25 --- Applause / Applaudissements StenoTran 355 1 1583 MS MITTON: My colleague Jules 2 Chiasson would just like to say a word. 3 2204 4 1584 M. CHIASSON: Madame Bertrand, 5 Monsieur Langford, je veux vous remercier de nous avoir 6 donner l'occasion d'entendre des auditeurs et des 7 auditrices, et des téléspectateurs et des 8 téléspectatrices, de l'Acadie et des Maritimes 9 s'exprimées sur les services de la radio et de la 10 télévision de Radio-Canada au cours de ces trois 11 derniers jours. 12 1585 Nous avons bien écouté les 13 présentations qui vous ont été soumises et nous avons 14 noté tous les points qui vous ont été adressés. Nous 15 apprécions les critiques positives, bien sûr, mais nous 16 avons également noté les problèmes qui devront être 17 rectifiés, qu'on devra travailler à rectifier. 18 1586 Je voudrais aussi souligner que même 19 le Vice-président de la radio, M. Sylvain Lafrance, 20 était présent à Moncton. M. Daniel Gourd(ph), 21 Directeur-général de la télévision était également à 22 Moncton. Eux aussi ont entendu et écouté les problèmes 23 qui ont été soulignés quant à la programmation du 24 réseau et qui touchent spécifiquement le reflet des 25 régions et spécifiquement de l'Acadie. StenoTran 356 1 1587 Je peux vous dire que la direction 2 régionale est très sensible à ce point et également la 3 direction nationale et nous allons continuer un 4 dialogue pour améliorer ce reflet de la région à 5 l'ensemble du pays. Nous avons déjà commencé à 6 travailler dessus depuis les derniers cinq ans. Il y a 7 du progrès qui se fait. Ça prend du temps. Mais avec 8 les moyens et les ressources que nous avons, nous 9 prenons ce problème-là très sérieusement. 10 1588 Je veux vous remercier encore une 11 fois pour nous avoir quand même permis d'entendre 12 directement les gens du public s'adressés à vous et 13 également à nous. Merci. 14 --- Applaudissements / Applause 15 1589 THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: I 16 know it is late, but I would like to add my thanks to 17 every one of you for not only coming and meeting with 18 us and making your intervention, but you have spent the 19 evening with us and that was very important. 20 1590 And yes, it is true that the same 21 message was repeated, but it was good to hear it in 22 your own words and you can be sure that not only will 23 it be on the transcript, but it will be something we 24 will carry with us going into the other cities and also 25 to the public hearing that will start on the 25th of StenoTran 357 1 May. 2 1591 It is true that we have heard 3 ourselves, so it is much more than content and 4 opinions, it is also about feelings in, I think, 5 broadcasting in general, but much more so, I suppose, 6 public broadcasting is about feelings. 7 1592 We will certainly, if you allow us, 8 use your interventions and your opinions in terms of 9 the dialogue that we will have with the CBC in Hull 10 when we discuss the renewal of their licences. 11 1593 I would like, before I leave, to also 12 remind you of a few dates, because that was not your 13 last opportunity to participate in the process. Your 14 interventions are part of the public process, but you 15 can also, on specific licences, send written 16 interventions. 17 1594 The applications from the CBC will be 18 gazetted on the 27th of March. So if you want to 19 consult it, it will be gazetted. It will also be on 20 our Web site and it will be certainly available at the 21 regional office of the Commission in Halifax. We have 22 an 800 number that I don't know by heart, but 23 certainly, Mr. Rogers could give it to you. 24 1595 We will be starting the hearing on 25 the 25th of May and, as I said, you can be sure that we StenoTran 358 1 will share that with our colleagues when we go back 2 home, but also that there will be echo to your opinions 3 and voices into that hearing. 4 1596 I would like to thank the translators 5 and the court reporter who have spent the day with us. 6 Without them there wouldn't be any written trace and it 7 is very important in order to really do the proper echo 8 into the public hearing. 9 1597 So to all of you, thank you very 10 much. Have a good night and I hope we will be seeing 11 you soon. 12 1598 Thank you. 13 --- Whereupon the hearing concluded at 2215 / 14 L'audience se termine à 2215 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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