ARCHIVED - Transcript
This page has been archived on the Web
Information identified as archived is provided for reference, research or recordkeeping purposes. It is not subject to the Government of Canada Web Standards and has not been altered or updated since it was archived. Please contact us to request a format other than those available.
Providing Content in Canada's Official Languages
Please note that the Official Languages Act requires that government publications be available in both official languages.
In order to meet some of the requirements under this Act, the Commission's transcripts will therefore be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of CRTC members and staff attending the hearings, and the table of contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the hearing.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES SUBJECT / SUJET: PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/ CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC) HELD AT: TENUE À: Gallery I Gallery I Landmark Hotel & Landmark Hotel & Conference Centre Conference Centre 1400 Robson Street 1400, rue Robson Vancouver, B.C Vancouver (C.-B.) March 16, 1999 Le 16 mars 1999 Volume 1 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Transcripts In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of Contents. However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the public hearing. Transcription Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières. Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience publique. StenoTran Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes Transcript / Transcription Public Hearing / Audience publique PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/ CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC) BEFORE / DEVANT: Françoise Bertrand Chairperson / Présidente Présidente du Conseil / Chairperson of the Commission ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTES: Carolyn Pinsky Commission Counsel / Avocate du Conseil Marguerite Vogel Regional Director, Vancouver / Directrice régionale, Vancouver HELD AT: TENUE À: Gallery I Gallery I Landmark Hotel & Landmark Hotel & Conference Centre Conference Centre 1400 Robson Street 1400, rue Robson Vancouver, B.C Vancouver (C.-B.) March 16, 1999 Le 16 mars 1999 Volume 1 StenoTran ii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Mr. Jacob Rempel 5 Mr. Serge Robichaud 13 Ms Samantha McIntyre 20 Mr. Ken Grieve 26 Mr. Phil Savath 31 Mr. Hugh Beard 39 Mr. Arthur Hughs 46 Ms Audrey Johnson 54 Mr. David A. Sinclair 57 Ms Shirley Campbell 61 Mr. Gordon Elliot 68 Mr. John Juliani 73 Mr. Patty McLeod 77 Mr. Jay Hamburger 81 Mr. Kalle Lasn 92 Ms Nancy Black 99 Ms Joan Robinson 104 Ms Linda Kelly 106 Ms Goldie Rodgers 112 Ms Jillian Tebbitt 125 Mr. Donald Morin 132 StenoTran iii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Mme Martine Galibois-Barss, 143 M. Maurice Morin Mr. Colin Miles 155 Mr. Philip Keatley 163 Mr. Montgomery Baxter 173 Mme Diane Côté, 177 Mme Nicole Bernier Mr. Patrick Brown 187 Ms Sue Truscott 194 Mr. Michael Francis 200 Ms Shari Graydon 211 Mr. Robert Hackett 219 Ms Ingrid Nordhal 235 Mr. David Price 241 Mr. Hugh Nevin 245 Mr. Robert Kerr 255 Mr. Sid Tan 264 Mr. Douglas Hogg 269 Ms Elsie Jang 276 M. Alain Paquin 281 Ms Kathryn Barker 291 StenoTran iv TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Ms Connie Fogal 295 Mr. Daryl Duke 303 Mr. Dick Hamilton 313 Ms Patricia Speakman 319 Ms Joanne Blake 323 Mr. Ian Boothby 327 Mme Danielle Arcand 334 Mr. Peter Buitenhuis 340 Ms Alma Lee 344 Mr. Rob Picard 346 Ms Heather Leighton 352 Mr. Bill Beck 361 Ms A.K. Stewart Muldoon 364 Ms Sinéed Fostad 376 Reply by: / Réponse par: Ms Rae Hall 86 Ms Rae Hall 229 Mr. Lyle Montague 380 StenoTran 1 1 Vancouver, B.C / Vancouver (C.-B.) 2 --- Upon commencing on Tuesday, March 16, 1999 3 at 0900 / L'audience débute le mardi 16 mars 1999 4 à 0900 5 1 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 6 day, ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the public 7 consultations on the CBC. 8 2 My name is Françoise Bertrand and I 9 am the CRTC's chairperson. We are here to gather your 10 views and comments on CBC radio and television. In 11 your opinion, how should the CBC fulfil its role in the 12 coming years. 13 3 The CBC is a national public service 14 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays 15 an important role in the Canadian broadcasting system. 16 Today, many elements are constantly being added to the 17 broadcasting system as new technologies multiply, 18 converge, open up new horizons and increasingly offer 19 new services. In this context, we want to know what 20 are your needs and expectations as viewers and 21 listeners of the CBC. 22 4 Given that, it is very important that 23 the Commission hears what you have to say. We must not 24 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public 25 organization that serves Canadian citizens. In this StenoTran 2 1 capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why my 2 fellow commissioners and myself find it vital to come 3 and meet with you and to discuss these issues and why 4 we are holding this series of regional consultations 5 from one end of the country to the other, in 11 6 Canadian cities from March 9th to 18th. 7 5 These consultations are designed to 8 give you a chance, on the eve of a new millennium to 9 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 10 it offers and the direction it should take at the 11 national, regional and local levels. 12 6 Through these consultations, we hope 13 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear 14 your concerns. Your comments will form part of the 15 public record which will be added to the record of the 16 public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull, next 17 May 25th. 18 7 At this upcoming hearing, the 19 commission will examine the CBC's application for the 20 renewal of its licences, including radio, television 21 and its specialty services, "Newsworld" and "Réseau de 22 l'information". You can also take part in that public 23 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. 24 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the 25 specific licence renewals being examined when you file StenoTran 3 1 your comments. 2 8 Now, I would like to come back to 3 today's consultations. Please allow me to introduce 4 the CRTC staff who will be assisting us today. Carolyn 5 Pinsky, our legal counsel and Marguerite Vogel, the 6 director of our western and territories regional 7 office. 8 9 Now, I should also tell you that we 9 have friends next door because you had answered in such 10 a great number to our call for the consultation that we 11 decided to hold the consultation in two different 12 rooms. So commissioner Cindy Grauer, the British 13 Columbia commissioner, is in the other room with 14 Margaret Vogel who is the director of our western and 15 territories regional office. 16 10 If you have any question as to 17 information on how will the day unfold or any other 18 question, please feel free to call on Carolyn Pinsky 19 with any question you might have about the process. 20 11 So that all will have the opportunity 21 to speak, we ask that you please limit your 22 presentation to ten minutes as these consultations are 23 a forum designed especially for you and we want to 24 listen to as many participants as possible, we will not 25 ask any questions, unless we need clarification. StenoTran 4 1 12 At the end of this session, 2 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a 3 chance to offer their views as they are naturally very 4 interested by the issues we are discussing here today. 5 13 Before we start, I would ask our 6 counsel to go over some of the housekeeping matters 7 regarding the conduct of this consultation. 8 14 Merci. 9 15 MS PINSKY: Thank you, Madam Chair, I 10 will just briefly outline the process we will be 11 following today. 12 16 First, I will be calling a group of 13 around approximately ten people, although I notice that 14 I think our first six presenters are already at the 15 table. 16 17 But as we proceed, I will be calling 17 on the presenters up in groups of ten and then I will 18 in turn call each presenter to make their 10-minute 19 presentation. 20 18 Just a note, when you begin to speak, 21 if you could turn on the mike so that the proceeding 22 can be recorded accurately and then when you are 23 finished, turn it off to avoid feedback. 24 19 We have translation services 25 available in this room so if anyone should require StenoTran 5 1 them, please go to the back of the room and I believe 2 you can get a device at the back. 3 20 In addition to those who are present 4 today but who do not wish to make a presentation, we do 5 have comment sheets at the front desk. And if you wish 6 to write some comments down, they will be put on the 7 public file. So with that, I believe we can begin with 8 our first presenter. 9 21 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: I am 10 just wondering, there is a musical background. I find 11 that a little distracting. 12 22 MS PINSKY: As you begin, I will 13 leave the room and take care of that. I was noticing 14 that as well. 15 23 The first presenter will be Mr. 16 Rempel. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 24 MR. REMPEL: Yes, I am Jacob Rempel, 19 I represent no organization. I am a retired teacher. 20 I have allowed all memberships to lapse in every 21 organization. I am from British Columbia now. I have 22 lived in Saskatchewan, Manitoba. My family identifies 23 with all parts of Canada with sisters, brothers and 24 children in every province of Canada. 25 25 I met my wife Elsie when we were both StenoTran 6 1 teachers in Manitoba. That is where I am coming from, 2 perhaps. As a citizen and as a teacher, I have been a 3 principal, I have done some studies in curriculum, in 4 graduate studies and so on and some work in that field. 5 I have worked among the First Nations in northern 6 Saskatchewan and I think I have a reasonably 7 well-rounded experience in Canada, including social and 8 political organizations. So that when people are often 9 introduced in order to enhance their credibility, 10 whatever this does to enhance my credibility, that is 11 all I can offer. 12 26 When Marshall McLuhan went to school, 13 his teacher Harold Innis explained how the original 14 nations and immigrant explorers and traders 15 communicated sea to sea with each other and with the 16 land itself. They became the medium and the message. 17 27 We have continued that process for 18 about 400 years with social organizations, political 19 organizations, with war sometimes, with canals, with 20 roads. Public enterprises like that, with bridges, 21 railroads, telegraphs, telephones, airlines, radio and 22 television and we still have radio and television. The 23 others are somewhat diminished as the ties that bind 24 us. They are still there but in much less effectual 25 than they used to be. StenoTran 7 1 28 But radio and television being part 2 of the new communications revolution are still there 3 and they can still be instruments of national policy 4 and I hope the CRTC will throw its weight behind those 5 who want it to continue to be so. There are very 6 strong forces now and the tides of globalization, free 7 trade are so strong that we need someone a little 8 stronger than Camus to stop some of them. 9 29 The CRTC was, after all, set up to 10 serve some of the same imperatives of Canadian 11 sovereignty as were all the other ties that bind us. 12 It is, therefore, your responsibility to ensure that 13 this CBC communications network is made stronger, not 14 weakened. It should not do more with less, it should 15 to more with more. 16 30 It is the only coherent 17 communications network we have to unify our over 300 18 million people socially, culturally and politically. 19 Well, that is not quite true. We have another network, 20 the schools, the public schools are a medium which is, 21 after all, continues like the CBC to be under the 22 boards of Canadian citizens. And all the directors of 23 every public -- and citizens of Canada and so are the 24 provincial governments which are the prime movers in 25 curriculum development and so on. StenoTran 8 1 31 Except in one sense the federal 2 government in Washington, D.C. has very significant 3 influence in the curriculum of Canada. One of the most 4 dramatic ones was when Sputnik circled the globe and we 5 adopted a dozen thick science and mathematics textbooks 6 developed by the curriculum centres promoted and 7 financed by the Government of the United States. 8 32 So every school, every province, 9 provincial government and district in Canada, including 10 Quebec, used those huge textbooks developed in the 11 United States. And they did not help our science 12 program, by the way. Very often it reduced the 13 development of our science knowledge and social studies 14 and literature. 15 33 Very similar things happened through 16 the publishing companies in the United States. So that 17 is still there. So the federal government does 18 influence us in Canada, public schools, but it is the 19 federal government of the United States. And they have 20 their agenda and I do not think it corresponds closely 21 with ours. 22 34 So there was a hint of mandate review 23 recently which trial date balloons politically about 24 the tenure of leadership in the CBC and also a hint of 25 integrating the French and English leadership. If that StenoTran 9 1 leadership is created to promote Canadian unity, then 2 that kind of unified leadership and programming would 3 be good. And if the CRTC has any input, I hope that 4 you will exert such influence for unity. 5 35 What I would like to see the CBC do 6 and the National Film Board is to become much more 7 helpful resources for the public schools of Canada. 8 When I was a student in a one-room school in 9 Saskatchewan, there was some cooperation between the 10 Department of Education and the CBC. They taught us 11 the folk songs of Canada on the radio for those 12 teachers who felt not prepared to do so, were not able 13 to do so. 14 36 So we learned the folk songs of 15 Canada on the CBC a few times a week, with R.J. Staples 16 being the music director for the province, a wonderful 17 program. And, believe it or not, when I became a 18 teacher in a two-room school in Saskatchewan, I used 19 that same program to teach the folk songs of Canada. A 20 small example of what could be done with cooperation 21 between the government and the provincial governments, 22 the public schools and the CBC. 23 37 Similarly, the National Film Board 24 does that and I have used those resources as a teacher 25 very often. I think of two examples that I have used, StenoTran 10 1 for example, the legend of how the loon got its 2 necklace was one that I have used a lot. It is a short 3 film which uses masks for somewhat like the ancient 4 Greek dramas did. And I found that my students, and I 5 have taught schools in high schools, elementary schools 6 and in prisons, in every one of those class rooms, the 7 students loved those and were motivated to want a lot 8 more of them. Anna and David Milne dancing a pas de 9 deux is another great film like that. It was done in 10 slow motion by Norman MacLaren, the animator. 11 38 Well, these are just a few small 12 examples but they are not being used very much and 13 there is a lot of great social studies material and 14 literature material and the CBC has wonderful stuff 15 that could be used in schools and it never is. 16 39 The National Film Board is not really 17 accessible to the modern teachers. With the modern 18 networks of the Internet and so on moving into every 19 class room, I notice that the Department of Industry 20 federally is working a little bit in that field in 21 promoting the Internet use in all the class rooms. 22 There could be a huge cooperation among these various 23 agencies and the provincial governments and school 24 boards and to create very rich Canadian content in the 25 schools. StenoTran 11 1 40 We have enough literature and art and 2 music in Canada now that could fill our curriculum -- I 3 do not want it to be strictly Canadian -- but to fill 4 every hour of every classroom with very rich material 5 in literature, art, music and history, written in 6 Canada, produced in Canada, so that we do not have to 7 fill our classrooms with hours and hours and hours of 8 British and American and French -- I mean from 9 France -- literature and art. 10 41 We have it in Canada now, in the last 11 50 years we have an enormous renaissance that people do 12 not know about, especially the children in schools. I 13 would like this to happen. 14 42 Perhaps instead of reducing the 15 National Film Board budget and the CBC budget, let the 16 two organizations perhaps amalgamate and work together 17 with the departments of education and with very 18 competent curriculum development experts we have in our 19 universities and really develop an institution and 20 curriculum centre, I don't know. 21 43 I have -- in other venues I have 22 described a few scenarios of how this could be done but 23 we have every confidence that you could work out any 24 one of a number of scenarios how this could be done so 25 that our schools could use the materials we already StenoTran 12 1 have to create a genuinely Canadian education. 2 44 Thank you. 3 45 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 4 you Mr. Rempel. I deduct from your intervention that 5 you are not proposing that the CBC becomes an 6 educational network, but rather that kind of produce -- 7 or help producing content that could be helpful for 8 educational purposes, is that? 9 46 MR. REMPEL: Well, I know the 10 Constitution with respect to education, but I also know 11 that every province including Quebec has absorbed 12 curriculum material from everywhere in the world and it 13 could be a very close cooperation among various 14 institutions, public and private that produce 15 curriculum resources, it could be very arm's length 16 from political decisions but nevertheless it could be 17 there and so accessible and so attractive that every 18 educational institution from kindergarten through 19 junior colleges would want that material and would 20 seize it, every teacher. 21 47 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Well, 22 thank you for your intervention this morning and you 23 definitely establish your credibility by your 24 background by also your caring and coming forward this 25 morning. StenoTran 13 1 48 MR. REMPEL: It is not written down, 2 so I cannot leave anything with you, but I think you 3 have it on tape. 4 49 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Yes, 5 we do. Thank you very much. 6 50 MR. REMPEL: I meant to say that we 7 have only the CBC and the schools and David Orchard 8 fighting for Canada, it seems. 9 51 MS PINSKY: Merci. Le prochain 10 intervenant est M. Serge Robichaud. 11 52 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 12 Bonjour. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 53 MR. ROBICHAUD: Bonjour. My name is 15 Serge Robichaud, I live in Maple Ridge, B.C., I have 16 been paying income tax now for over 25 years. I 17 support the CBC in certain functions others I do not. 18 I have two examples here of very bad journalism from TV 19 but I will keep away from these because of time 20 constraints. If I have time at the end of my 21 presentation I will reintroduce them. 22 54 I do not want to shut down CBC or 23 make it into a commercial corporation. I would rather 24 it be fixed and be made more accountable to the public 25 and in defending the public interests not to defend the StenoTran 14 1 private corporations, they are powerful enough. They 2 do not need taxpayers to help defend the corporations. 3 We need very different system of governance for the CBC 4 to keep government and corporate interests at a good 5 distance. 6 55 I do not have a model to suggest 7 right now, but I am looking for one and perhaps Mr. 8 Morrison of the friends of public broadcasting or 9 Robert McCechny, the American critic might have some 10 suggestions that we could follow. 11 56 I would like to say a few words about 12 Canadian culture in American culture. 13 57 Back in the 1950s we had the McCarthy 14 era and the McCarthy witch-hunt. Pete Seeger in the 15 Weavers, popular group were victims of that area. They 16 are popular songs of working class struggles. 17 Eventually they were forbidden to perform publicly. We 18 all know this story, but there are other stories like 19 this and even today we have similar stories of critics 20 being forbidden, musical critics being forbidden to 21 play publicly. 22 58 American culture is cleansed to 23 protect the very wealthy and influential and to protect 24 the corporate citizens from a true democracy. There is 25 no room for this in democracy. The American people do StenoTran 15 1 not deserve it and neither do we. 2 59 I am not saying we do not have some 3 form of cultural cleansing here in Canada. I am saying 4 it is not good for democracy. Whatever comes across 5 the border on TV, on NBC, ABC or CBS, I never bother 6 looking at it. 7 60 However, there are these American 8 dissidents that I do want to hear, the American 9 intellectuals that I do want to hear, the intellectuals 10 and the critics like Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Ralph 11 Nader, Robert McChesny, Ben Baknakin, et cetera. There 12 are hundreds of these very -- with very valuable 13 arguments but very seldom hear them on commercial 14 airwaves. Most of them are labeled un-American by 15 commercial media and deemed unsuitable for broadcast. 16 61 Now, I would like to talk -- I would 17 like to leave TV and talk about radio. Radio is very 18 important to me. I work quite a bit and then when I am 19 not working I am at home with a family, small children. 20 I do not have time to sit there and read newspapers or 21 watch TV. 22 62 Radio, however, is a very valuable 23 tool for transmitting information of importance to 24 democratic process. Especially for those like me, who 25 do not have time to read or even many of us who cannot StenoTran 16 1 read. I always listen while I work, while I cook, wash 2 dishes, drive the car. You can listen to radio and be 3 informed if you are a track driver, a farmer ploughing 4 the field, a car mechanic, a carpenter, anyone can 5 listen to radio. Radio services should never be cut 6 off from the CBC. It is the most effective 7 communication tool that we have. 8 63 Now, I would like to mention 9 something about commercial radio stations. We have 10 here in B.C. one or two very popular talk show hosts 11 who somewhat claim to be the bastions of free speech. 12 They are not with CBC, they are with private commercial 13 establishments. I phoned in a few times to complain 14 about certain aspects of free trade and the global 15 economy. To be specific, I am working in small 16 business and I have very -- some of my friends have a 17 very hard time getting financing for their projects, 18 projects that are $10,000 or less. Very hard time 19 getting this financing here in B.C. 20 64 On the other hand, we have these 21 investment dealers today it is a new phenomenon, came 22 with free trade, we have one on just about every street 23 corner telling us to take our money out of B.C., out of 24 can do to invest in the New York stock exchange or some 25 of these Third World mutual funds. They even have some StenoTran 17 1 that come back and speculate against the Canadian 2 dollar. I know there is something very wrong here and 3 it is not being addressed in the public debates. 4 65 Now, I tried three times to get Mr. 5 Free speech to address these issues and three times I 6 got cut off in mid-sentence. "Time for a commercial 7 break", or, as I often heard, "oh, these global trading 8 issues are much too complicated, we must leave it to 9 the experts." End of the story. 10 66 Globalization is not that 11 complicated. We often hear Noam Chomsky and similar 12 critics here on Vancouver's cooperative radio. They 13 explain in fine detail what global economics are all 14 about. The problem we have with commercial stations 15 here and Mr. Free speech on his station is that more 16 than 30 per cent of his advertising clients are 17 institutions that actually profitize from the 18 globalization phenomena, that is bankers and investment 19 dealers, the very object of my criticism. So three 20 quarters of the small business people that I work to, 21 they listen to this show without realizing what I would 22 say is a fraud put on to them. 23 67 This is only one example of why 24 commercial broadcasting is not compatible with 25 democracy, it can be off. It has to exploit or sell StenoTran 18 1 off its listening audience in order to generate 2 advertising revenue. 3 68 I have one example here of a very 4 dubious broadcast, typical telling us to take our money 5 out of Canada, put it in the stock market because 6 Canada is too heavily in debt to be a functioning 7 nation. I thought it to be very outrageous and I do 8 not want to hear this on CBC. 9 69 To conclude, what I want from my CBC 10 radio tax dollars is more political analysis, more 11 critical analysis on the federal, provincial and 12 municipal stage. 13 70 I want arm's length from government 14 and from big business and from the banks. I do not 15 care much for CBC for cooking, recipes or good 16 gardening tips. Perhaps other people will support 17 that. It is not my preference. 18 71 I am interested in more of the 19 American dissidents, Norm Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Danny 20 Schacter and the Canadian dissidents like Linda 21 McQuaid, Walter Stewart, Stevie Cameron and David 22 Orchard and people like this. 23 72 I would like to be able to vote for 24 the programs I want to hear. Please consider it. 25 73 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank StenoTran 19 1 you very much, Mr. Robichaud. You have a French name. 2 do you happen to listen to the French radio as well or 3 mainly English? 4 74 MR. ROBICHAUD: Oui, des fois, 5 j'écoute la radio française. Mais j'ai des plaintes à 6 propos de la radio française puis une de mes plaintes 7 est ici au document, des affaires que je ne veux pas 8 voir sur la télévision française, ou entendre sur la 9 télévision française. Si le temps le permet, je peux 10 en parler. 11 75 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Non, je pense que ça 12 fait déjà votre intervention si on veut pouvoir laisser 13 la place aux autres. Mais peut-être pouvez-vous 14 laisser un commentaire avec madame Pinsky pour 15 s'assurer que -- 16 76 MR. ROBICHAUD: Oui. Cinq secondes ? 17 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Oui, bien sûr. 18 77 MR. ROBICHAUD: En 1990, il y avait le 19 vidéo clip B je me souviens, répété beaucoup, beaucoup, 20 de fois sur la télévision. C'était à la pointe du 21 'collapse' du Lac Meech. C'était un vrai chef-d'oeuvre 22 de propagande. Ça, je l'ai vu à plusieurs reprises sur 23 la télévision. Qu'est-ce que je fais avec ça ? À qui 24 je me plains ? Comment l'arrêter ? Un vrai 25 chef-d'oeuvre de propagande. J'en ai une copie ici. StenoTran 20 1 78 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Bien, merci, monsieur 2 Robichaud. Merci. 3 79 MS PINSKY: Our next presenter is Ms 4 Samantha McIntyre. 5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 6 80 MS McINTYRE: I am not good at this, 7 I am kind of low-tech. I am a registered clinical 8 counsellor who has been in private practice here in 9 Vancouver. I have moved out of that, more into writing 10 and research because at the age of 52 Lord knows I have 11 plenty of material. 12 81 I have been a youth worker up north 13 and a school counsellor, elementary, secondary and at 14 college campuses. 15 82 So I have written about 50 speeches 16 and I went with one that I think is primary for human 17 development and that is the point I would like to make 18 is identity. Because I have worked with young people 19 so long, I have had to draw on my own personal 20 experience, but I've also watched several generations 21 of young people grow up. 22 83 My first students are now in their 23 40s. And they come from different parts of the world. 24 Some are recent immigrants, some are sons and daughters 25 of immigrant families and many are First Nations, StenoTran 21 1 Métis, Innuits, Dene, Nishnawbe, Cree. 2 84 And when I was living up north and 3 certainly teaching out west and acting as a school 4 counsellor in three different provinces, Ontario, 5 Alberta and British Columbia, I was distressed as were 6 other non-native teachers that there were not role 7 models. I had role models thanks to the CBC, to echo 8 the teacher-principal here, when I was growing up who I 9 was. 10 85 I always knew I was Canadian. My 11 Canadian citizenship was more important to me than my 12 gender, more important to me than which province I was 13 born in, more important to me than the particular 14 family that I belonged to. The fact that I was 15 Canadian was very, very important. And great 16 influences were the CBC, first the radio because I was 17 born before TV was available across Canada, the 18 National Film Board of Canada and the few robust 19 Canadian publishers. So those were my sources of 20 outside influence other than the strong feelings 21 everyone in the communities in which I have lived for 22 the last 52 years have reflected being Canadian. 23 86 So when I was living up north and 24 when I was teaching out west and acting as a school 25 counsellor and a teacher, I was looking at my First StenoTran 22 1 Nations students and I was thinking, "I wonder how well 2 they are doing with affirmation of their identity, not 3 just as Canadians but as First Nations. 4 87 And when there were such shows on 5 television, on CBC, "Rainbow Country", that was one of 6 the first TV shows that I saw that had First Nations 7 actors not white guys painted to look native like 8 Victor Mature, but First Nations actors. "The 9 Beachcombers" was the next one, "Spirit Bay" was my 10 introduction to the great and wonderful Tom Jackson. 11 And other shows such as "Danger Bay" which was a West 12 Coast set in Vancouver, actually also introduce the 13 issues having to do with First Nations concerns, West 14 Coast First Nations of the mini series "Four 15 Directions" of course, "North of 60". For younger 16 people, "The Rez" was fun. 17 88 Shows such as "Life and Times", "Man 18 Alive", "Nature of Things", "Witness", also have had 19 shows dealing with First Nations issues. 20 89 On other specials such as the 21 broadcast of the films, Canadian films, such as 22 "Loyalties", "Big Bear", "The Diviners", allowed my 23 First Nations students to see people like Tom Jackson, 24 Tantu Cardinal, Gordon Tatusis along with the entire 25 cast of "North of 60", all of whom I thought were StenoTran 23 1 wonderful. And radio shows such as "Dead Doing Cafe" 2 which is a venue for the talented "Thomas King". 3 90 The broadcast of the aboriginal 4 achievement awards which I believe started in 1994, 5 when that came on it was my last year as a high school 6 teacher and I ran around like a crazy woman in my high 7 school grabbing every First Nations student we have, 8 "Now, tonight, be sure you watch, even if there is 9 anything else on, you make sure that you see this, it 10 is very important." 11 91 And the next day, the results were 12 astounding. These kids who were unaware of so many of 13 their fellow Canadians who had achieved great things 14 now had -- now saw the faces, heard the names, were 15 able to run out and get the CDs of musicians they had 16 never even heard of. 17 92 Lately, thank God, we have 18 "Aboriginal Voices" magazine. And I know the move is 19 afoot to have an aboriginal people's television network 20 which I think is important. But I still think the CBC 21 itself should continue to mirror who we are. We are 22 First Nations, we are Ukrainian-Canadian we are 23 Scottish-Canadian we are French-Canadian, we are 24 Chinese-Canadian, we are Japanese-Canadian. We are all 25 the people who have come here and the first peoples who StenoTran 24 1 have come here. 2 93 And the CBC has, more than any other 3 network in my experience, both on radio and on 4 television, reflected more and more the faces, the only 5 group that I -- of students that I have had are African 6 Canadians who since the arrival of Phil Fraser and Rita 7 Deverole on Vision TV, they may now have discovered if 8 they were born in Manitoba, that there was a place 9 called Africville, in Nova Scotia, which was a very old 10 community. 11 94 So for self-realization, for 12 self-manifestation, for making it in this world in a 13 tougher and tougher and tougher world, self-definition 14 is absolutely important. One's identity is very 15 important. It does not bother me if someone who is 16 First Nations says, "I am First Nations first" and the 17 Canadian, well, who cares because we do not recognize 18 the border. I do not care about that. What I do care 19 about is that young people are affirmed, that they can 20 see black faces, that they can see Asian faces, that 21 they can see First Nations faces that they can see 22 French faces, U.K. faces, Ukrainian faces and they can 23 hear a wide variety of last names which can affirm this 24 is me, there I am right on that TV. The CBC has been 25 able to do that, CBC radio has been able to do that. StenoTran 25 1 95 I will be very upset if anything 2 worse happens to the CBC. I am mad as hell at our 3 government for cutting the funding, I am furious that 4 that has happened. Because I know that it will affect 5 young people growing up in this country and I know that 6 it affects me. And so I would ask for people in the 7 CRTC to do the right thing even if our various 8 government and elected officials will not, not cannot, 9 will not. The CRTC has the power to influence and, you 10 know, we are counting on the CRTC at this point to make 11 it so. 12 96 Thank you. 13 97 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 14 you very much, Ms McIntyre. The power of the CRTC is 15 to renew the licence of the CBC and we are taking our 16 role very seriously. Certainly we will be the 17 messenger of all the comments we are hearing through 18 the consultation and then the public hearing. But we 19 have no power over the financial allocations from 20 government to the CBC, unfortunately. 21 98 MS McINTYRE: Thank you. 22 99 MS PINSKY: Mr. Ken Grieve is the 23 next presenter. 24 100 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Yes, 25 good morning, Mr. Grieve. StenoTran 26 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 101 MR. GRIEVE: My name is Ken Grieve. 3 I do not have any particular qualifications except I am 4 one of the few people here who has been listening to 5 the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as it was known 6 in those days, since it started. 7 102 At that time, before that, we had 8 quite a few local stations like CKWX, which I think is 9 still around, and these private stations or commercial 10 stations and CKCD, et cetera. And they had programs 11 that were quite good in some respects they used to hire 12 people like the Clangese family, for example, was on 13 one station that were orchestras and so forth. But 14 today, of course, with the private stations if it is 15 pretty now all recorded music and talk shows and that 16 sort of thing. And I wonder if the CBC disappeared. I 17 think they probably would continue to be mostly just 18 reportings and canned music and I doubt whether they 19 would hire that many people. 20 103 So I think the CBC is very vital in 21 that respect in giving employment, if nothing else to 22 our own artists. Some of the stations in the United 23 States, we used to listen to, of course, were ones like 24 CJOR, and KOMO in Seattle. And KJRR, KNX in Hollywood 25 and of course there was a Salt Lake City station, a StenoTran 27 1 very powerful station. So that is what we were tended 2 to be dominated to quite an extent by the American 3 broadcasting because in many ways, of course, it was 4 better than the local stations. 5 104 I would like to touch on the TV for a 6 minute. I do not watch TV. As a matter of fact, my TV 7 went on the blink a couple of years ago and I found 8 that I have not missed it very much and I know some of 9 my friends tell me, "Well, did you see this great 10 program last night on the CBC", or some other TV 11 station or on cable and I said that no, I will say that 12 well, no, I did not see it. I know I missed something 13 worthwhile and I realize I miss many good programs. 14 105 But the truth is, in a way, I do not 15 miss TV very much because CBC radio does tend to be 16 fairly good most of the time. So that I do not really 17 feel any great loss and, therefore, I have not been 18 driven to get my TV fixed or to get another one which 19 maybe I should do. So I would just like to touch on 20 financing. I know that the CRTC does not have any 21 control over financing of the CBC but it occurred to me 22 that the airwaves are supposed to be publicly owned and 23 when you give a private operator whether TV or cable or 24 radio a licence, something like a licence to print 25 money in many respects, I think even today and since it StenoTran 28 1 is very valuable, I think that a lot of these people 2 are probably religionists of different varieties that 3 own and run these stations and maybe they could give a 4 tithe of 10 per cent to finance the -- 10 per cent of 5 their gross revenues to finance public broadcasting 6 because we are sort of giving them a favour so that is 7 one idea anyway. 8 106 I would like to say that on the 9 whole, I find CBC TV or radio very good, music and arts 10 commentators are generally great. I know that they are 11 running into great difficulties because of lack of 12 financing but people like Sheila Rogers and Eleanor 13 Wachtel do great interviews with different artists and 14 so on. And, of course, the music programs are 15 excellent on the whole. 16 107 A thought occurred to me the other 17 day and I think that one of the gentleman across the 18 way in his report mentioned this, that if you are 19 working on your computer, you are not going to be able 20 to watch TV, but you may like to have some radio in the 21 background. So maybe this is a reason why radio is 22 quite important to many people like that. 23 108 One thing I do feel a little critical 24 of is regarding the news reporting on the CBC, it tends 25 to be -- I know that some critics of the CBC say that StenoTran 29 1 the commentators and the news tends towards being 2 socialist or something like that. I feel that those 3 people that think that way are like the people that 4 used to call Mr. Trudeau a communist and of course Mr. 5 Trudeau is a -- is not one of the wealthiest 6 capitalists, but he is a multi-millionaire and I am 7 sure he would shed his last drop of blood to defend the 8 private enterprise, so-called private enterprise 9 system. 10 109 And so I do not think that that is 11 any more valid to say that the commentators and the 12 reporters on the CBC are socialistically inclined 13 because we get people like different people like 14 Jeffrey Sacks, the Harvard economist who has been 15 responsible for the so called Chilean shock treatment 16 and also the Polish shock treatment and also Barbara 17 Frum's daughter -- or her son, rather, I cannot think 18 of his name right now. Anyway, they get people like 19 that who represent the right side or the conservative 20 point of view. So I do not think we are subjected to 21 people who are just left wing in their views by any 22 means. 23 110 I think that is probably all that I 24 wish to say. With those words, I will end my 25 contribution. StenoTran 30 1 111 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 2 Excuse me, sir, I would ask a question that you have 3 not touched upon. Since you have been a listener since 4 the beginning of CBC radio, in light of the comment you 5 were making about the covering of the Vancouver 6 locality and community and the region, would you say 7 that it is -- it has been the case all along, or you 8 see that there is less covering than there used to be, 9 would you have a comment about that? 10 112 MR. GRIEVE: I don't know, I think 11 the coverage is probably adequate locally in regard to 12 news, is that what you are talking about? 13 113 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Yes. 14 114 MR. GRIEVE: I think the coverage now 15 with the technicians strike it has not been quite as 16 good as usual but that kind of coverage is very good. 17 I was thinking more of, I think the fellow's name was 18 Tucker, I believe, who was a producer or an independent 19 producer or something like that and he was saying this 20 morning that at one time they had a lot of money and he 21 as was talking about TV, mostly to hire a lot of 22 artists, dancers and performers of various kinds and 23 that all the money was going to Toronto now. 24 115 MR. ANDERSON: He felt it was far too 25 centralized and those kinds of programs, variety StenoTran 31 1 programs and so on were coming out of Toronto rather 2 than Vancouver. He thought to the second largest 3 English speaking city in Canada should have a far 4 better share. 5 116 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 6 you. 7 117 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Mr. 8 Phil Savath. 9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 10 118 MR. SAVATH: Good morning. Well, I 11 have a -- I am coming from a slightly different 12 perspective since I am a writer and producer of 13 television, so I have a more professional view point. 14 119 I am one of the people lucky enough 15 to be employed occasionally. I have worked in 16 television in this country and also in the United 17 States for about 25 years as a writer and a producer 18 for the CBC locally regionally and nationally and also 19 for other stations in Canada, both regional and network 20 and also in the U.S. in the American system. 21 120 That is only to just -- that is the 22 as the first presenter said, to introduce myself. 23 121 25 years ago I was in an 24 improvisational theatre troop, really poor theatre 25 troop in Toronto and we were doing live improvisations StenoTran 32 1 on the radio in the morning where people would phone 2 into Peter Gzosky and we would do sketches. 3 122 At that point we also had a small 4 theatre school and we were given one of our students 5 was the son of the head of CBC children's department 6 and he proposed to us that we could have a TV series 7 doing what we did. And it was an insane decision on 8 his part. We knew nothing about it, but we were young 9 and vigorous and interested and we wrote it and we 10 produced it and we acted in it and we helped paint the 11 sets and it was like a Judy Garland production. 12 123 And I must say that I have always in 13 the course of my career received that kind of support 14 from the CBC creatively, especially. 15 124 I would like to only speak 16 creatively, because that is the most important thing 17 because a network obviously should be judged by what it 18 produces and if the CBC were not to be producing what 19 it is producing, even in this current climate, I think 20 we would all be the poorer. If there was no "Boys of 21 Saint Vincent", if there was no "Love and Hate", if 22 there was no "Conspiracy of Silence", if there was no 23 "The News Room", we would be the poorer for it. 24 Another stop in my personal history is that I went to 25 work in 1985 for the regional CBC here in Vancouver. StenoTran 33 1 125 I was hired to produce a show called 2 "Switch Back" which is a live show on Sunday mornings 3 for youths and teens and it involved a lot of call-ins 4 because it was live and interactive association because 5 it was interactive. And the day I started there was 6 the day that the CBC budget cuts began. That was 14 7 years ago. They are still going on. 8 126 In the past 14 years, those programs 9 that I have mentioned and many, many others have been 10 produced. The series that Ms McIntyre mentioned, the 11 broad-based, inclusive, national, regional, local 12 perspectives of white, black and First Nations and 13 everyone's voice has been on the CBC. 14 127 The schedule has been completely 15 Canadianized. The CBC never said, "oh, we cannot 16 afford to do this now so we will stop this plan." I 17 would argue that the CBC, as beleaguered as it is at 18 the moment, is extremely vigorous because of the 19 programming that it is producing. But I think that it 20 is disingenuous to say that we can just continue to 21 hack money from this institution and then criticize 22 their choices of how they survive, with its closing 23 regional stations or its centralizing their operations. 24 These are not done because this is a good idea, this is 25 done for survival. StenoTran 34 1 128 And I think it is important to 2 recognize that not only does the CBC reflect the 3 country to itself, which is its mandate, but it 4 reflects it to the world. Programs that are made here 5 are seen and shown around the world. I have produced 6 in the last five years three movies of the week for the 7 CBC. The first one, which the first one was sold to 8 CBS and to Britain's Channel 4. 9 129 I do not think there is a lot of 10 other television networks that -- around the world that 11 can produce work that can be on both U.S. television 12 commercial television and on the most prestigious 13 television channel in the world which is Channel 4, 14 which is something the CBC is always being unfavourably 15 compared to. But yet the CBC produces material that 16 Channel 4 buys and that REI buys and that Canal Plus 17 buys and that everyone in the entire world buys and 18 sees and wins awards constantly. 19 130 The last film I did for the CBC was 20 just nominated for an international Emmy. It was one 21 of the three finalists in the entire world. Next week 22 I am going to the International Festival of Public 23 Television with that film. It has been selected to be 24 shown there. As one of my colleagues one said, this is 25 not chopped liver. This is the stuff that they are StenoTran 35 1 doing in the context of constant cutting, constant 2 restructuring, constant turning off of the tap. 3 131 We have a myth in this country, or a 4 tendency in this country to deride our institutions. 5 But we have a social contract and that is what a 6 government is, is a contract between people and to 7 provide services for the people. It is not to see how 8 much money the post office can make, it is not to see 9 how much money the army can make, it is to provide 10 these services because the people need them. Yet we 11 demand in the CBC that it become fiscally responsible. 12 132 Well, I put it to you that after 13 surviving the cutting that they have been surviving and 14 still producing the programming that they are 15 producing, they are pretty accountable. Yet they still 16 have to sell advertising, which is anathema to a public 17 broadcaster. 18 133 So we have a public broadcaster which 19 is not really public because it is expected to pull its 20 own weight and we have private broadcasters that are 21 anything but private. This is a serious myth that 22 there is such a thing as private broadcasters. 23 134 My area is drama. If a show costs $1 24 million to make the private broadcasters pays $150,000 25 for that show. Telefilm, which is a federal government StenoTran 36 1 taxpayers' money pays $250,000 per episode of the cable 2 fund which is federal government taxpayers' money will 3 pay up to $200,000 of that million dollars. The 4 province, the provincial agencies will pay up to 5 $50,000 of that money. $150,000 will be made up by tax 6 brakes, tax cuts -- not tax cuts, sorry, credits, that 7 is like $650,000 to $700,000. 8 135 Yet these are the private stations 9 and we do not think had he are have any accountability 10 to us. 11 136 We spend our time saying the CBC 12 should be accountable because we pay for that. Well, 13 we pay for everything. That is the reality in this 14 country. The difference is that the money that is 15 made, as Mr. Grieve said, it is a licence to print 16 money and it certainly is because you do not see people 17 who own private networks running around in beat up old 18 cars. 19 137 These people are making a great deal 20 of money and the money they make they keep. Whatever 21 money the CBC makes, they put back into programming and 22 the CBC does in-house drama which means they pay the 23 entire amount which the private networks do not do. 24 138 So I think we should be looking as we 25 look at the landscape and listen to the voices that are StenoTran 37 1 telling us to lose the CBC and to think about what 2 their agenda might be because they are in competition 3 with the CBC for public money, for serious public 4 money. This is not a -- well, we do everything 5 ourselves so why should the CBC be getting all the 6 handouts. That is not the way it works. The 7 government has a choice to make and you can help them 8 make that choice. 9 139 Before I go to that there is one 10 other thing I would like to say. I work for the CBC 11 regionally here in Vancouver and we regret, you know, I 12 am sure that we do not have a great many regional 13 programs produced but even in this climate we still do. 14 But right now, in Vancouver, the network which does not 15 have a great number of drama series on is producing two 16 one-hour drama series, big budget drama series in 17 Vancouver and next year they will be producing four in 18 Vancouver because with the two that are already on they 19 have ordered another one which happens to be one that I 20 am working on and another show. 21 140 So there is more regional presence on 22 the national network now, again, in this reality than 23 there has ever been. There is more programming coming 24 to Vancouver from the network than there has ever been 25 and from all the regions, from the Atlantics, from the StenoTran 38 1 Prairies. It comes from every where. Of course, it 2 should be more rigorous at the local level but you have 3 to allow them the opportunity to do these things. You 4 cannot just keep taking everything away from them and 5 complaining about their choices. 6 141 You know, we have to protect what we 7 have. We should celebrate the successes, we should 8 look at the fact that the CBC, instead of reading in 9 the newspapers which are also in competition with 10 television that the CBC is crumbling when actually, in 11 fact, networks are losing audience but the CBC lost 12 less audience than any other network in Canada next 13 year. There is a lot of myths around and we are 14 operating in a climate where people do not have the 15 real information. 16 142 I would also like one last thing to 17 say in response to you, Madam Chairman, that while you 18 only have the power to licence, you do have a 19 responsibility to protect the environment and you have 20 the power to issue other licences to other networks and 21 to hold them accountable to those licences which I 22 would suggest the CRTC could perhaps be more vigorous 23 in their holding the so-called private broadcasters. 24 143 Now, I have no action to axe to grind 25 with the private broadcasters, because I work with them StenoTran 39 1 as well. It is just that I am upset by the level of 2 misinformation that exists that we -- that we try to 3 make our decision around that the public who has access 4 to you does not have access to all the facts because I 5 would suggest it is not in people's interests to let 6 those facts out. 7 144 Before I get to sound like a 8 conspiracy theorist, I think I should stop. Thank you. 9 145 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Well, 10 thank you very much. You have certainly made your 11 contribution in bringing facts no the public network 12 and I will remember that private broadcasters are not 13 totally private. I usually say independent producers 14 are not always independent so I will add that. 15 146 Thank you very much. 16 147 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Mr. 17 Hugh Beard. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 148 MR. BEARD: Thank you. 20 149 Madam Chairperson. 21 150 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 22 morning. 23 151 MR. BEARD: Good morning, my name is 24 Hugh Beard. I am president of Force Four Productions. 25 It is an independent production company based here in StenoTran 40 1 Vancouver and with me is rob Bromley. He is director 2 of program development for our company as well and if 3 it was permissible we would probably both like to 4 address the commission. 5 152 My perspective is really coming from 6 one where I work for CBC in Vancouver in television for 7 23 years and now I am the owner of an independent 8 production company. I began my career at CBC Vancouver 9 as a studio technician and eventually worked my way to 10 become executive producer of CBC's longest running 11 series, "The Beachcombers". And I worked on that 12 series for the first ten years of its existence and, as 13 I said, in all, I worked for the corporation for 23 14 years and I left the CBC before the CBC started to make 15 its cut backs. 16 153 I think maybe Rob could let us -- 17 tell us a little bit just as background for Force Four 18 Productions and the kind of programming relationship 19 that we have with CBC. 20 154 MR. BROMLEY: Force Four began when 21 Hugh left. He set up the company to produce sort of 22 corporate communications and produce television 23 commercials and it has been in business now for 18 24 years. 25 155 About five years ago, we began to StenoTran 41 1 focus on television production as well and, of course, 2 for Hugh, it was sort of moved back into television. 3 We had to establish new relationships at CBC as nearly 4 all of Hugh's former colleagues had left or retired. 5 So when we began that, we found CBC to be very 6 receptive to meeting new producers and maybe our timing 7 was just very good, I don't know. 8 156 And I suppose a little bit of this is 9 going to sound very similar to what Phil Savath was 10 saying in that most of our experience has been a good 11 one in working with CBC. 12 157 We have had the opportunity to 13 produce many programs for CBC in that five years. 14 These include several episodes of the life and times 15 series and that included programs on people like Rick 16 Hansen, Emily Carr, Lynn Johnson, Terry Fox and 17 Christine Silverburg. And we are now in production on 18 the life and times of Phil and Tony Espesito. 19 158 And, you know, certainly we believe 20 that this type of series is exactly what CBC should be 21 doing. These are the role models that other people 22 have been speaking about this morning that Canadians 23 should be seeing and our children should be seeing and 24 those programs do go into schools and are seen in 25 schools and I think that is very important. StenoTran 42 1 159 Some of the other documentaries that 2 we have produced, last year we completed "Grizzlies of 3 the Canadian Rockies" and we are currently on 4 production on a program called "Sharks of the Golden 5 Triangle". 6 160 Those programs again similar to what, 7 if you will, was saying, those are being also shown by 8 Discovery Channel in the U.S. there is a big 9 broadcaster and obviously they feel that it is programs 10 that have value to their audience as well and we have 11 also sold in Europe and other places. 12 161 So I think this is good programming 13 and but they do not happen if CBC does not participate. 14 We also have a children's series in development called 15 "Fish and Chips" which is something that we are working 16 on here with the Vancouver Aquarium. And regionally, 17 we produced a couple of years ago, a half-hour 18 documentary called "Heart of the City" here for CBC 19 Vancouver and we also have another program in 20 development called a "A Moment in Time". 21 162 CBC's support over these years has 22 helped force four grow as an independent television 23 production company, we now have 15 full-time employees 24 and I guess, you know, it is also important to say that 25 our work has meant payment to freelance, technical, StenoTran 43 1 creative talent and performers that well exceed more 2 than $1 million annually. 3 163 There has been a lot of discussion 4 about the cut backs and that sort of thing at CBC and 5 while CBC's in-house production has declined, this has 6 also resulted in opportunities for producers such as 7 ourselves and I think it is important to say that CBC 8 are now partners with more and more of these 9 independent producers and more and more in the regions. 10 164 We see this partnership as beneficial 11 and a very cost effective way to produce Canadian 12 programming. 13 165 In summation, our experience with CBC 14 has been positive. We see the executive producer and 15 producers of life and times series frequently coming to 16 Vancouver to screen rough cuts not only of our programs 17 but over here in Vancouver. 18 166 Secondly, we have begun focusing our 19 marketing efforts outside of Canada in developing those 20 relationships with people like Discovery Channel in the 21 U.S. and we have also been able to build a strong 22 relationship with CBC international sales and they have 23 been extremely proactive in helping us market our 24 programs internationally and I think this is just a 25 very important point for business we have to be looking StenoTran 44 1 outside of Canada to produce these programs. And while 2 all of this is positive, there are there are, of 3 course, some changes we would like to see at CBC. 4 167 MR. BEARD: I guess for the CBC that 5 I knew and worked at, the regional broadcasting was the 6 impetus for new ideas and for drama development. I 7 think people might be surprised to know that the CBC 8 series originally "The Beachcombers" originally was 9 intended as a training ground for new directors and 10 writers and we were also doing a lot of one-hour dramas 11 at that time and longer form specials and so this 12 little Beachcomber series was going to be a good place 13 to train technicians and writers and directors. And, 14 of course, it gained a life of its own and somehow, as 15 it gained a life of its own, the other dramas seemed to 16 fall away and we were only left with really 17 Beachcombers for a long, long time. 18 168 I think the kind of legacy of a 19 program like Beachcombers that grew in the regions and 20 developed in the region of the CBC has had a profound 21 effect on the whole industry and the healthy drama 22 industry that we do see in Canada and the television 23 service industry and the feature film service industry, 24 the technicians and designers and program people have 25 their, I guess cut their teeth on "The Beachcombers" StenoTran 45 1 and "The Beachcombers" was responsible for really the 2 start of a very important industry here in British 3 Columbia and probably influenced other areas as well. 4 169 I think that one of my concerns for 5 the CBC and I have always been a fan of the CBC for a 6 long, long time and I have cared about it very much 7 particularly when I worked for it, I think that my fear 8 always has been that CBC will become entrenched in 9 Toronto and that as the cuts and cut backs force them 10 to become more efficient, that the effort will be to 11 say, well, let us produce totally out of Toronto. 12 170 I know that they are bringing dramas 13 here, and I applaud that and I think that is wonderful. 14 But I think that CBC is missing a great opportunity. I 15 think that opportunity, if we look at the history of 16 CBC and you look at the history of television drama 17 development that grew out of regional programming and 18 it grew out of regional programming because the budgets 19 were small, there was not a lot to risk, people could 20 afford to take chances. CBC had in-house internal 21 directors that had experience that they would take 22 young directors and mentor them and develop them and I 23 think that that opportunity is, in fact, probably 24 diminishing and I would really urge the CBC to rethink 25 its regional programming and not to cut away air time. StenoTran 46 1 I think that it is not just a case of money, I think it 2 is really a case of having the air time to put programs 3 on the air and really it is giving people an 4 opportunity to occasionally fail if that is the case 5 because it is really only when you can take risks and 6 afford to take risks that original ideas can kind of 7 flourish. 8 171 So I think that, to me, I think that 9 the opportunities for the CBC are great. I think that 10 the opportunity to try and strengthen regional 11 broadcasting and that is not just in Vancouver but I 12 think all across the country, I think it is an 13 opportunity that could go a long ways to developing 14 better programming for Canada, better programming that 15 will be seen internationally. 16 172 Thank you. 17 173 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 18 you very much, to both of you, thank you. 19 174 MS PINSKY: Mr. Arthur Hughes. 20 175 MR. HUGHES: Bonjour, madam. 21 176 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 22 Bonjour. 23 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 24 177 MR. HUGHES: And ladies and 25 gentlemen. My name is Arthur Hughes and I am here StenoTran 47 1 simply as an average citizen to give some subjective 2 observations on the CBC. I was born in the same era 3 that the Canadian radio broadcasting commission was 4 born by R.B. Bennett and I think I have been a listener 5 ever since. So I think after 60 or 70 years I think 6 you could call me a loyal listener. 7 178 And I would like to explain why I 8 listen regularly to the CBC. Two reasons essentially. 9 Number one, CBC radio is obviously an extremely 10 intelligent, responsible and very entertaining and 11 eclectic programming. One intervenor mentioned that he 12 did not listen to all the programs, how could you? CBC 13 is trying to address the entire citizenry in Canada and 14 I have heard it said and I am sure it is true that if 15 you could listen to the CBC radio regularly it is 16 equivalent to a university education. And as a 17 consequence, I think I have probably wasted six years 18 of my life and a lot of money going to university. 19 179 Now, the second reason I listen to 20 CBC regularly is the simple fact that there are no 21 commercials. I occasionally do listen to commercial 22 radio and the inane, repetitive and literally lowest 23 common denominator commercials destroy any enjoyment of 24 their programming. 25 180 So I think for those two reasons, it StenoTran 48 1 is truly an extremely valuable service to the Canadian 2 public. Now, I would like, if I may, to give some 3 examples of actual programming. No one has done this 4 so far. I have four examples although there are many. 5 181 In Vancouver, there is the, as there 6 is across Canada, local morning and afternoon radio 7 programs. Now, the morning program goes from 6 to 9, 8 the afternoon program from 4 to 6. Recently the CBC 9 brought west a sports announcer from Toronto, Rick 10 Clough. And as far as I am concerned he is one of the 11 most expert, interesting and of course he has a lot of 12 help behind the scenes interviewers. I would say that 13 if you had a chance and most people do not to listen 14 from 6 to 9 every day you would not have to read the 15 morning paper. It is as simple as that. 16 182 I will give one example of this 17 morning's programming. He interviewed -- well actually 18 he is on spring break right now, but the interview was 19 of a sociologist from the University of Michigan who 20 just completed a study with several assistants of the 21 effect that so called scary films have on the public 22 and this was the effect it had on children, teenagers 23 and adults. They gave examples of long-term effect, 24 they gave examples of actual films. Now, you know, 25 this is something you would never, ever have on StenoTran 49 1 commercial radio. It just would not be there and it is 2 just one example of many that they do. 3 183 Another program, we all know, "As It 4 Happens" has been running for decades, it seems. The 5 popularity of this program is beyond question and it 6 goes far beyond the normal CBC listening audience. It 7 is broadcast in many places throughout the States on 8 public radio. They have a popular feature, talk-back 9 which, of course, many other stations and programs do 10 as well and many, many times you will hear phone-ins 11 from California from Michigan, from Florida, anywhere 12 that the PBS carries this broadcast. 13 184 It is a truly invaluable program 14 particularly although Peter Gzosky is there no longer, 15 he did the same thing, I think he tied the country east 16 and west although I dare say in Quebec there were not 17 that many French speaking listeners but Peter Gzosky, 18 as an aside, I would say he definitely deserved his 19 Order of Canada. 20 185 Another program that is invaluable is 21 on Saturday morning called "The House". This is a 22 public service program regarding politics or the 23 political scene in Canada with Jason Moscovitz. 24 186 Once again, I would say this, that if 25 one were able to listen to this program weekly over the StenoTran 50 1 whole year or at least on the Saturdays, it is 2 broadcast if there were a federal election that year 3 one would not have to listen to one word from any 4 political party nor read any editorial in any paper in 5 order to be able to cast a sincere and honest vote for 6 the party of your choice. You would be able to make 7 that choice simply by listening to this program called 8 "The House". 9 187 Finally, a purely entertaining 10 program on Sunday nights is called "Sound Advice" with 11 Rick Phillips. This is an extremely clever program in 12 that he will play the latest CDs of classical music, 13 once upon a time LPs, of course. And he will make 14 comparisons. And obviously it is primarily an 15 entertaining program. It is followed by "On Stage" 16 which is similar, but it is simply rebroadcasting 17 programs from the Glenn Gould. 18 188 Anyway, those are four programs and 19 there are many others that are extremely valuable. 20 There are programs that one gentleman said he does not 21 listen to, neither do I, because they do not appeal to 22 me, but I can be -- one can be damn sure that they 23 appeal to a lot of other Canadians and that is why they 24 are broadcast. 25 189 Now, as for television, two StenoTran 51 1 intervenors have already stated that one of the great 2 values of radio is you can be doing other things. For 3 a family with children, for example, they can be 4 listening to the radio, maybe with just one ear, but 5 still you can be listening whereas television you have 6 to actually sit down and pay complete attention I 7 should say with both eyes and ears. So I do not watch 8 television all that much. 9 190 Now, when it does come to television, 10 I watch the CBC primarily, but I do watch some of the 11 other channels. I can only get, well, 28 channels on 12 my particular set up, but one cannot watch 28 channels, 13 so I watch about three or four. And I certainly do 14 watch the public television from the U.S.A. 15 191 Now, one major criticism of 16 television is that the national news which they 17 continue to call "The National", which is curious, 18 being an adjective, but anyway, they moved it from 10 19 to 9, they knew that the general public was going to 20 have difficulty watching it and they refused to return 21 it to the ten o'clock time slot for quite some time but 22 finally they knuckled under and did that. And now they 23 are showing the ten o'clock news repeated at 11, God 24 knows why. I wrote them a letter got an inconclusive 25 response. I suppose it does save a lot of money, they StenoTran 52 1 can just repeat an hour's programming. 2 192 But at 11 o'clock, here in Vancouver, 3 we used to see the local news and now the local news is 4 at 11:30, meaning you have to stay up an extra 5 half-hour. That is mind-boggling to me. At 11 6 o'clock, I switch to VTV which has very good local 7 news, broadcast much better than the usual stations 8 which the local news is what is happening in your 9 apartment building, the national news is what is 10 happening on the street outside and the international 11 news is, you know, what is happening in Burnaby. 12 193 The VTV does a wonderful job with 13 their local news. I can't particularly pick out any 14 superb programs on television. I will mention "The 15 Nature of Things." 16 194 Now... En passant, je voudrais dire 17 que j'écoute le CBF FM afin d'améliorer le français, et 18 aussi le CBOFT. 19 195 Et si vous me permettez, je voudrais 20 dire à ma collègue, à gauche... à ma gauche, à dire 21 l'expression canadienne française, c'est assez 22 maintenant. Maintenant c'est... l'expression plus 23 exacte est québécois, ou bien, le Québec... et 24 québécoise. 25 196 Anyway, if maybe I could just wrap it StenoTran 53 1 up by saying that if the CBC ever went under my stereo 2 set is plugged into cable. So I am able to get all the 3 stations south of here and I do listen on occasion to 4 KOW which is the University of Washington, KPLU which 5 is the University of Pacific Lutheran and KPLM which is 6 a commercial station. 7 197 I know that if the CBC ever went 8 under, CBC radio, that I would go under, too. I would 9 not be listening to any Canadian station I would be 10 tuning in those three. 11 198 Merci, Madame. 12 199 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 13 Merci, monsieur Hughes. 14 200 And I see that you certainly deserve 15 three Ph.D.s for all the radio listening and loyalty 16 you have been delivering to the CBC and you are a very 17 active listener by coming this morning. Thank you very 18 much for your intervention. 19 201 I would propose that we take a coffee 20 break for -- coffee break for ten minutes. 21 --- Recess at 1025 / Suspension à 1025 22 --- Upon resuming at 1050 / Reprise à 1050 23 202 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: We 24 will proceed and I would ask Ms Pinsky to call the next 25 intervenor. StenoTran 54 1 203 MS PINSKY: The next intervenor is Ms 2 Audrey Johnson. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 204 MR. JOHNSON: Hi. Thank you. My 5 name is Audrey Johnson. I am not here on behalf of any 6 organization, I am just representing myself. I just 7 want to start by saying yesterday I heard on CBC that 8 they were concerned that their audiences, the majority 9 of their audience is over 50 years old and so they 10 wanted to make younger programming to attract younger 11 viewers and listeners. 12 205 I started listening to the CBC radio 13 when I was in my early 20s quite by accident. I was in 14 my last few years of university and could no longer 15 afford cable television, being a starving student, and 16 the radio that I did have could only receive two 17 stations clearly. One of them was the CBC. And I 18 started listening to CBC radio and that was first time 19 I tuned into "As It Happens" and from then on I was 20 hooked. 21 206 So I think the CBC is still very 22 relevant to young people and I hope that in their 23 efforts to attract younger viewers that that does not 24 mean that they are going to make it more American. 25 207 I prepared some words last night and StenoTran 55 1 it comes from a very visceral place, I think. 2 208 I worked briefly for CBC Newsworld a 3 few years after I graduated from university and I got 4 sort of an inside look at work at the CBC because we 5 worked very closely with the local stations. And I -- 6 so while I have that background, my words are purely 7 from an emotional place. 8 209 My family emigrated to Canada from 9 the Caribbean when I was six years old and I went 10 through the entire school from grade 1 to university. 11 But it was not until I started listening to the CBC 12 that I really started to understand this vast country 13 that my parents brought me to. And it was not until 14 then that I really started to appreciate what it is to 15 be a Canadian. 16 210 The CBC is not just an information or 17 entertainment source. For me, it is an integral part 18 of Canada's identity and, therefore, it is part an 19 integral part of my identity as a Canadian person. 20 That is not to say that the CBC is perfect. Certainly, 21 its cultural programming could be much more diverse and 22 there should be more of it. And I think CBC television 23 is suffering from a bit of an identity crisis. As a 24 public broadcaster it is trying to be more American, I 25 think it is being forced into that place because of cut StenoTran 56 1 backs but also because I think the powers that be think 2 that that is what Canadians want to watch. But it is 3 not what I want to watch. 4 211 I think there are enough stations 5 that show us life in America. I turn to the CBC to 6 show me life in Canada. But despite its short comings, 7 I think CBC at least makes the effort to tell our 8 stories and it does so with continually diminishing 9 resources. 10 212 That is the other point I wanted to 11 discuss as a taxpayer, I do not mind giving money to 12 support the CBC. I think I would be willing to pay 13 more taxes if that meant continuing and improving what 14 I consider to be a very important Canadian media 15 source. It saddens and angers me when I hear critics 16 say that the only way to save the CBC is to privatize 17 it. It angers me because I know that those critics are 18 only motivated by profit. 19 213 The CBC is the only station that I 20 hear coverage on the recent elections for the new 21 territory of Nunavut. It is the only place that I have 22 heard about the personal stories of the fishing 23 communities in the Maritimes or of Canadians living in 24 remote communities across this country. 25 214 As a former athlete, the CBC is one StenoTran 57 1 of the places I have always turned to for coverage of 2 amateur sports and I think they do that very well. 3 215 And I do not need to mention, I think 4 it has already been mentioned, the influence that the 5 CBC has played in the careers of artists and writers 6 and musicians across Canada. 7 216 A private broadcaster could not do 8 what the CBC does because they would not be able to 9 afford it. For them the bottom line is the most 10 important. But the CBC is more than about the bottom 11 line, it is about helping to create our country. If 12 you allow the CBC to be privatized, I think you might 13 as well privatize the Canadian flag because for me that 14 is what the CBC is, it is our flag, it is us and it 15 tells us and it tells the world who and what we are. 16 Canada needs the CBC and I want the CBC to continue to 17 be a very unique part of my Canadian experience. 18 217 Thank you. 19 218 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 20 you very much, Ms Johnson, thank you. 21 219 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Mr. 22 David Sinclair. 23 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 24 220 MR. SINCLAIR: Good morning, Madam 25 Chair, madam secretary. StenoTran 58 1 221 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 2 morning. 3 222 MR. SINCLAIR: Ladies and gentlemen 4 and to the officials of the CBC and federal government 5 politicians who might be listening now or at a later 6 time. 7 223 I am pleased to speak to you this 8 morning and I am also pleased to begin my presentation 9 by saying that my earliest memory or one of the 10 earliest memories of my life is recalling a federal 11 government representative coming to my parents' home in 12 Vancouver to collect the CBC radio licence fee in the 13 early 1940s. 14 224 I have found the CBC radio and 15 television to be educational, informative and 16 interesting and its journalists are not afraid to 17 tackle the problems of the real world, the real social 18 world and the Canadian social world however unpleasant 19 and distasteful these might be. 20 225 I am very disappointed in the cut 21 backs that the federal government has imposed on the 22 CBC over the years. I appeal to the federal government 23 and the CBC officials and the CRTC collectively 24 speaking together to be as forceful as possible to the 25 federal government in efforts to reinstate more funding StenoTran 59 1 to the CBC for the benefit of all Canadians. 2 226 I mentioned a radio licence fee. I 3 expect that this has been discussed and if this was to 4 be considered for the future and put forward, I would 5 be willing to pay a reasonable licence fee. 6 227 As we all know, England has had this 7 radio and licence television fee for many years, 8 continuing to the present. 9 228 Over the years I have participated in 10 the programs of the CBC by phoning in to programs such 11 as "Cross-Country Checkup". I appreciate the 12 educational value of CBC Radio One as it is now known 13 and the music and more of CBC Radio Two and I 14 particularly enjoy "Say It With Music". 15 229 I now wish to briefly turn to the 16 technical aspects of radio and television in relation 17 to the CBC. I wish to thank the CBC for the stereo 18 signal on CBUT channel 2. Concerning the television 19 transmitters of the CBC, I am wondering as to whether 20 or not the existing full power transmitters or the 21 transmitting that are almost at full power still need 22 to be full power even though digital and high 23 definition broadcasting are coming. 24 230 I am also pleased to see that the CBC 25 Radio One has established a separate identity in StenoTran 60 1 Victoria on the FM band. Concerning the UH trans -- 2 the UHF transmitters, particularly for the CBC French 3 television, I am wondering if the CBC has conducted any 4 tests to determine as to how many people actually watch 5 CBC French television by way of the UHF transmitters 6 such as in this area channel 26 and in Calgary channel 7 16, for example. 8 231 The competition for CBC television is 9 not limited to what is available on Rogers Cable, 10 Canadian satellites and American satellites. It is not 11 generally known that there are up to eight UHF 12 television stations in Seattle and one in Bellingham 13 that are not on Rogers Cable and two more are coming 14 soon in the Seattle area. 15 232 Most of these can be received with 16 varying signal strength at different times of the year. 17 I plan to be here for most of the hearings today as I 18 am interested in the comments and opinions of my fellow 19 citizens. 20 233 Madam Chair, this concludes my 21 intervention. 22 234 Thank you. 23 235 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 24 you very much. And you are more than welcome to spend 25 the day with us, thank you. StenoTran 61 1 236 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Ms 2 Shirley Campbell. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 237 MS CAMPBELL: Thank you. I am from 5 Squamish which is a small town outside of Vancouver and 6 I drove in today to give this presentation. I feel a 7 little bit like a country bumpkin and, of course, my 8 name was not on the list and I did phone in and make an 9 appointment, so thank you for hearing me. I truly am a 10 country bumpkin in that I was born and brought up in 11 the interior and northern B.C. So CBC was my cultural 12 and national lifeline. And it still is. 13 238 When I was a teenager in the '60s, I 14 lived in a little town called McBride, B.C., it is in 15 the Robson Valley, Rocky Mountain trench. And we got 16 CBC and that is all. It was A.M. and I as a teenager 17 heard the Beetles for the first time on "Temple for 18 Teens" from 4 to 4:30 with Bob Switzer. That was the 19 only rock and roll we got except later on at night if 20 we were driving around in cars we could get American 21 stations. 22 239 Later, we never had TV and later in 23 the end of the '60s, TV station came in and before that 24 an American researcher came in and researched us and 25 our children on the playgrounds because we were the StenoTran 62 1 last people in North America that had not -- had no 2 access to TV. They found that we were less violent on 3 the playground at that time than the rest of the people 4 and since then I think we have caught up. Because when 5 I visited McBride this year, they have mostly 6 satellites and they mostly get Detroit stations. They 7 do not get CBC. In Squamish, I pay for my CBC radio 8 because the transmission and I was interested in this. 9 240 Talking, the transmission signal is 10 so weak. Okay. We can get commercial AM, FM radios 11 loud and clear through the mountains, we cannot get 12 CBC. So I pay $17 a month to a cable for 52 stations 13 and the only one I want is CBC AM. When I hear you 14 talk about the radio CBC, I don't know what you are 15 talking about. I do not get it, and I am disturbed 16 about that. 17 241 When we drive through -- I drove 18 through B.C. this year, I could hear CBC radio around 19 the towns. As soon as we got out of town, I was back 20 to commercial radio and then back into it. 21 242 So I feel that, again, you are our 22 lifeline and we are not getting it. So it is a case of 23 really the haves have it and the have-nos do not. And 24 I understand that it is very expensive. We are a 25 large, large country, but that is also our strength. StenoTran 63 1 243 And I am appealing on behalf of the 2 many northern people and isolated people that we get 3 transmission. I took time off from work to get here 4 and because I feel so strongly on behalf of small 5 communities and I was a bit disturbed that your 6 hearings were only in the cities. I understand that 7 you will probably be asking for written reports or 8 something so that some of us can express our support. 9 244 CBC radio provides us with a balanced 10 Canadian program that are not available in any other 11 form in a small turn to. While we are isolated 12 physically we can visit via "Talk Back", Rex Murphy, 13 the afternoon show from all Canadians on all issues 14 from all corners of the country, whether the programme 15 is "Quirks and Quarks", "The Hum Line", or "DNTO", or 16 "The Sad Goat", or "Gardening with Brian Minter", we 17 are always entertained and challenged. 18 245 I especially appreciate the pride in 19 speaking grammatically correctly that the announcers 20 have. And as we all know, if they make a mistake their 21 listeners correct them quickly. And I think that is a 22 real strong part of the CBC. 23 246 Is the CBC doing a good job? Yes, I 24 think so, despite cut backs and I am one, I do not mind 25 some reruns. While I understand the difficulty in StenoTran 64 1 balancing a budget, I think it is very shortsighted to 2 think that the CBC is a financial black hole. 3 247 To improve our service and our appeal 4 to Canadians we must hire more journalists, artists, 5 technicians, writers, announcers, et cetera. 6 248 I believe that it is also a great 7 training ground for our future. I see in the small 8 communities where we have special grants for loggers 9 and forestry workers because that is cutting back. Why 10 not, instead of making up little employment jobs for 11 these people, train something that they can use 12 globally and that is to be technicians. We could have 13 internship programs for these people and it is not a 14 waste of money. 15 249 And while I think it will be hard for 16 the fishers and miners in the east and the loggers in 17 the west to become artists, I think their children 18 certainly could. And we have seen many, many examples 19 of it. 20 250 For the future of the CBC, I would 21 love to just give a couple of recommendations. I think 22 it should be a balance of not only Canadian but also 23 national and international and I would like to see 24 programs that are not on public -- or on the commercial 25 stations. StenoTran 65 1 251 I think that I agree with this woman 2 about the young people. I talked to many people that 3 my kids were brought up with CBC radio, hated it and 4 now as they got into adulthood, have gone to become 5 listeners. 6 252 And I heard that over and over again. 7 I think that we could take some queues from the BBC and 8 I do not know much about the BBC, but they seem to have 9 at least funded -- they have also sold much of their 10 programming and I think we could, too. 11 253 In conclusion, I must repeat, it is 12 our cultural lifeline. Nowhere do we hear book reviews 13 except on CBC. When we talk with my friends we do not 14 say, "I heard it on the radio," we say "I heard it on 15 CBC." 16 254 I appeal to you to urge everyone you 17 can to preserve this and improve it. Thank you very 18 much. 19 255 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 20 you, Mrs. Campbell. I am wondering, you were referring 21 to one of the radios that you did not get. You get one 22 on the cable, but you do not get the other one. 23 256 MS CAMPBELL: I do not get the music 24 one. 25 257 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Oh, I StenoTran 66 1 see. 2 258 MS CAMPBELL: What is that called, 3 CBC two? 4 259 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Okay. 5 That is the one you are not receiving, okay. 6 260 MS CAMPBELL: And we get the AM, we 7 get the FM, and, as I say, we pay for it. 8 261 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 9 Through cable. 10 262 MS CAMPBELL: Yes. 11 263 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 12 you very much for taking the time off your work and to 13 come in and meet with us. For your information and for 14 your friends and people who are here today, too, let me 15 give you the dates by which written comments will be 16 received. 17 264 First will be gazetting the 18 applications of the CBC for every licence as of the 19 27th of March which means that, by then, the 20 interventions can be sent and the deadline is the 30th 21 of April. 22 265 And, as legal counsel was kind of 23 mentioning this morning, it is important when you do 24 file a comment that you refer to the letters and which 25 licence it refers to. Because it is not a global StenoTran 67 1 renewal we are doing, although we are hearing 2 everything together, it will be licence by licence. 3 266 So if you want to talk about the ones 4 that you receive and if you, you know, you have to 5 address it by its call letters. And the hearing itself 6 will be in Hull from the 25th of May to the 11th of 7 June. 8 267 Thank you very much. And you can be 9 assured that everything that is heard through that 10 consultation is on the public record. There will be a 11 transcript that will be transmitted and be part of the 12 public hearing. Thank you. 13 268 MS PINSKY: And also just in terms of 14 the written interventions, the addresses can be found 15 on our website and also when the public notice is 16 issued to announce the proceeding related to the 17 application you will hear of that through newspapers 18 and other forms of notice but, as well, you can find 19 that on our web website. That is the addresses where 20 you want to file the written intervention. 21 269 I would ask next that the three next 22 presenters please join us at the table. And they are 23 Mr. Gordon Elliot, Patty McLeod, and John Juliani. And 24 Mr. Gordon Elliot is the next presenter. 25 270 You may begin your presentation if StenoTran 68 1 you wish. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 271 MR. ELLIOT: I did not expect to be 4 speaking here today, because I was told that I was too 5 late. 6 272 When I arrived this morning, I found 7 that I might be able to say a word, I borrowed a pen 8 and a piece of paper, made a few notes. My name is 9 Gordon Elliot. I taught at UBC, I taught at Simon 10 Fraser University, retired from there, I taught in the 11 meantime at the University of Victoria and at the 12 University of Prince Edward Island. 13 273 I taught Canadian history, Canadian 14 literature. And I think, I gather from students who 15 have told me, I turned them into Canadians. I could 16 not have turned them into Canadians without the CBC. 17 274 I grew up in a small town. In 1936, 18 I think it was, CBC came along and it was my life line 19 to elsewhere. And elsewhere was the whole world. What 20 I am afraid of, with these cuts, cuts, cuts to the CBC 21 is that we are being restricted to almost no outside 22 world at all. 23 275 Now, not only the outside world, but 24 I learned first about Newfoundland. I now go to 25 Newfoundland often, fairly often. I learned about the StenoTran 69 1 Prairies, about the Yukon, off the CBC. We had no 2 public library in Williams Lake in the 1930s and the 3 1920s. 4 276 In fact, I went back there to teach 5 for a couple of months -- the only job I was never 6 asked back to -- and there was no library there then 7 and that was in the 1950s. The CBC is the lifeline of 8 this country. And as it is cut back, we might as well 9 cut the umbilical cord and start all over again as a 10 colony, a political colony, rather than just an 11 economic colony of the United States. 12 277 Now, I spent four years in the 13 services. I taught for many years and I was -- I went 14 to university because I wanted to know what that where 15 was about. I did not know, I was just a young fellow 16 and I was drafted, I went. 17 278 When I came out of the university, 18 after studying Canadian history, and writing a thesis 19 on Quebec and the Quebec people, I had a whole new view 20 of this world. 21 279 Now, when I went to university, I did 22 not expect to pass, even. I had been a lousy student 23 in grade 12 -- I would be ashamed to show you the 24 transcript of my graduation. But what I found was, 25 while I was at university, I became interested in what StenoTran 70 1 Canada is and what a Canadian is. 2 280 Now, over all these years, I was 3 backed in my studies, my thinking by the CBC. Radio 4 that is. I still do not have a TV set. I am a reader 5 and, therefore, I cannot let that TV world, that 6 mechanical world interfere with my reading. 7 281 All across this country, after the 8 collapse, not the collapse, but the change in usage of 9 railways, that was a life line across this country, CPR 10 and the railway. After they diminished and with air 11 travel, we never see this country, we never hear of it. 12 We go from here to Toronto or from here to Newfoundland 13 or to somewhere else or from here to Newfoundland, I 14 will save the adjective. 15 282 Radio, then, is all we have now, 16 especially in the face of Quebec separation or anything 17 else, we only have the radio that hooks this place 18 together. 19 283 Now, I have been introduced in those 20 places. When I was in the services, I saw a bit of 21 them. But when teaching, I used the CBC. It was 22 better than anything I could say myself. We saw -- we 23 heard the plays, we heard programs. I could say why 24 don't you listen to this tomorrow. It was a back up, 25 it was a back up for me. StenoTran 71 1 284 Now then, the students, I do not 2 think I pushed, I tried not to be emotional about it, 3 but the students in my classes started thinking of 4 themselves as Canadians. 5 285 Too many of them were considering 6 themselves, oh, I am English, my parents were English, 7 my grandparents were English. I cannot do that. The 8 only country I have in this world is this one. My 9 mother's people on my mother's side have been here 250 10 years and my father's people 200 years. 11 286 I cannot say look, my granny is 12 something, could I become an Englishman or something 13 like this, I have this country and I am losing faith in 14 this country. And the more I see the cuts to the CBC, 15 the more my faith is underlined. 16 287 Now, as I see this country on the 17 verge of political collapse, we look with a kind of 18 horror with what is happening in Spain or Yugoslavia 19 but we are causing separation in this country by a 20 constant undermining of ourselves. 21 288 Now, what I would like to say, if I 22 have not already said it, this major link from coast to 23 coast and from Canadian to Canadian whether it is a 24 Canadian with a Chinese background, Korean background, 25 east Indian background, Yugoslav, Iranians. Around my StenoTran 72 1 area of town there are Iranians, they are fine people, 2 they do not know what they are and they will not know 3 without the CBC. 4 289 So what I am asking this committee to 5 do is do not destroy that major link we have from coast 6 to coast, from sea to sea. Canada from sea to sea 7 without that link is not going to be Canada from sea to 8 sea, it will be Canada into 12 separate little colonies 9 of someone. 10 290 So what I would like to say is that 11 you recommend that not to weaken the CBC, but to 12 strengthen it, to hype it, push it. We do not see 13 enough of this. Or I do not see very much in our local 14 newspapers. I would like possibly that they would like 15 to see it go. 16 291 Hype the thing, push it. Repair it. 17 It has to be repaired. Bolster it. Reinvent it so 18 that it becomes a part of my country and the country to 19 which I belong and to which I am gradually losing faith 20 because we will invest in anything, any place else but 21 the creation of our own world. Thank you very much. 22 292 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 23 you very much, Professor Elliot. It is -- thank you 24 for your participation and I apologize if there was a 25 confusion of messages. StenoTran 73 1 293 MR. ELLIOT: I beg your pardon? 2 294 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: I 3 apologize if there was confusion of messages to the 4 fact that you were too late to intervene. We are happy 5 that you came forward and took the time to talk to us. 6 295 MR. ELLIOT: Thank you. 7 296 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 8 you. 9 297 MS PINSKY: Mr. John Juliani is the 10 next presenter. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 298 MR. JULIANI: Thank you. I, too, was 13 under the impression that I would not be appearing 14 today, so I do not have a written statement. 15 299 I am here representing 3,000 16 performers in radio and television in British Columbia. 17 And I guess I am here in a past incarnation as someone 18 who was executive producer of radio drama here in 19 British Columbia for the network, for 15 years, and I 20 suppose I am also here in my capacity in another life 21 as the president of the Directors' Guild of Canada for 22 several years. What I have to say about the CBC is 23 that we are all going through the pains of its present 24 situation. I think for the performers that I 25 represent, many of them had their beginnings on CBC StenoTran 74 1 radio and television. 2 300 Speaking of television, in the early 3 days of "The Beachcombers", that was -- that became 4 very quickly a relic of our heritage and I use the word 5 "relic" advisedly because we recently lost Robert 6 Clothier. 7 301 I think many performers in this 8 country and in this part of the world certainly got 9 their beginnings on CBC radio and television and I can 10 speak from personal experience that their input here in 11 British Columbia was something that was valuable and 12 seminal. 13 302 My own personal experience at CBC 14 radio was that we moved from a situation where we were 15 decentralized to a situation where we have become again 16 centralized. 17 303 I think the most egregious blunder 18 that was made by CBC leadership -- I use the word 19 advisedly -- in the last few years was that the most 20 recent spate of cuts were used as an excuse to circle 21 the wagons and to bring everything back to Toronto. 22 304 I think that has had a very 23 unfortunate result, certainly on radio in this part of 24 the world in terms of the output in drama and other -- 25 and documentaries coming out of this region. Vancouver StenoTran 75 1 has long been a centre in those areas. 2 305 As far as television is concerned, 3 ironically television is now doing what radio did in 4 all its existence and I am very, very happy to see what 5 is happening with things like Davinci and so forth 6 coming out of Vancouver. But I don't know how we are 7 going to keep television going and keep the regional 8 programs going unless we get some kind of rethinking of 9 this whole concept of work coming from areas of this 10 country outside of Toronto and being funded properly. 11 306 So that is the -- that is my big 12 condemnation, I think, of the CBC. My genuine gut 13 feeling, of course, is still one of praise and it has 14 been said here and it has been said in the other room 15 here this morning that it is a life line, all these 16 things are motherhood, will we preserve it, will we 17 continue to preserve this vital link or will it go the 18 way of the railways, both of which as Professor Elliot 19 has said, have been a link in this country. So I hope, 20 of course, that we can keep it going. 21 307 As far as the present strike is 22 concerned, because it seems to me and I admittedly have 23 been away from it for two years since I resigned from 24 the CBC because of the conditions there had changed 25 from the way they were when I first went there, I am StenoTran 76 1 concerned that there seems to be a desire on the part 2 of management to get rid of those technicians one way 3 or the other and to join arms and go into the 4 multiskilled universe of the future. That may be a 5 wrong impression. 6 308 If you want to change your ways at 7 this technical level then by all means change the 8 philosophy, but treat the technicians and treat these 9 people properly. Get the money give them the severance 10 packages and change and announce that you are changing 11 and it is time to change. I do not feel that that is 12 being done and I feel that there is kind of an agenda 13 there to lose these people. So I react with dismay to 14 that. 15 309 I will stop by saying that the 16 traditional separation between radio and television, 17 television has, for some time now, been riding 18 financially on the coattails of radio. But I don't 19 want to get into a situation where one is saying that 20 one should be supported over the other. I feel radio 21 from the very beginning knew what its mandate was, 22 television knew what its mandate was at the beginning 23 but never did it and only now recently meaning the last 24 five, six, seven years and ironically it is being beset 25 by such cuts that it may never be able to complete its StenoTran 77 1 mandate. 2 310 I am encouraged by what is happening 3 in Vancouver lately and other parts of the country as 4 far as TV is concerned. I hope that there continue. I 5 thank you for your indulgence. I am sorry I did not 6 prepare something written, but I was not told I would 7 be presenting anything. 8 311 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 9 you very much, Mr. Juliani. And you will understand 10 that we will make no comments especially on elements 11 concerning the strike, which is a matter concerning the 12 union and CBC, and it is not a matter concerning the 13 Commission. Thank you. 14 312 MS PINSKY: Thank you. The next 15 presenter is Patty McLeod. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 313 MS McLEOD: Thank you very much for 18 hearing me, Madam Chair. I too, registered to speak 19 but did not receive any acknowledgement of that and I 20 am really very happy that you have been able to fit me 21 in. 22 314 I come before you today as the 23 co-chair of the Vancouver Music Alliance and the 24 general manager of the Vancouver Cantata Singers who 25 have benefited for many years from what the CBC does. StenoTran 78 1 315 I am also coming to you as a private 2 person who has listened to and watched CBC radio and TV 3 for more than 30 years. I was not going to say this, 4 but Mr. Juliani has brought it back to me: I come out 5 of radio. I was an announcer-producer for the South 6 African Broadcasting Corporation before I came to 7 Canada and became a music manager and I revel in the 8 relative freedom that I have found CBC radio to operate 9 under. I hope that is a correct analysis. 10 316 Coming from South African radio in 11 the days prior to independence, it is quite marvelous 12 to see what happens on the CBC. And because my 13 experience in music management has led me more closely 14 to connections with radio than TV, I will speak more 15 seriously and with more authority on the radio, on CBC 16 radio. 17 317 And I have to tell you that the 18 special role played by the CBC in presenting Canadian 19 programming is of the utmost importance. I cannot 20 emphasize that enough. 21 318 If we were to have a broadcast on 22 radio of a performance of Handel and Mozart at the Chan 23 with five international Canadian soloists, it is not 24 going to happen. And I am very sad about this, but 25 this business of programming is a role that radio has StenoTran 79 1 fulfilled despite the crippling cut backs which, you 2 know, I think have made it very difficult for the 3 people in radio to work to their full capacity. They 4 are overworked and that is maybe one of the reasons 5 they are walking the streets now. 6 319 But if many of our performing 7 companies, as we do, have nation-wide reputations and 8 if the work of Canadian composers, workers and writers 9 is celebrated across the country with increasing 10 frequency it is because the CBC national network has 11 made them known to all of us. There is an absolute 12 explosion in writing in Canada and the reason -- one of 13 the reasons for that I think is because of its exposure 14 on Canadian radio. 15 320 I think -- I just do not know of any 16 other broadcast medium in our country which devotes as 17 much time and attention to the development 18 encouragement and promulgation of what is distinctive 19 about the Canadian cultural voice than does CBC radio. 20 321 In this province, in British Columbia 21 and I have got some interesting statistics here, but I 22 will not bother you with them, the federal per capita 23 support for culture is really quite dismal and the 24 provincial per capita support is exactly the same, 25 maybe even a little worse. StenoTran 80 1 322 The CBC has celebrated our work. It 2 has introduced us all over the country and helped keep 3 us in touch with what is happening in other parts of 4 the country. You know, new music, for example, we do 5 quite a bit of commissioning, has a very rocky road to 6 travel and one of the ways that composers' works get 7 heard more than once is because the CBC is broadcasting 8 them. 9 323 I don't know what it is, I cannot 10 think of any other such force present alive and well in 11 Canada, and at the moment it is barely alive and well. 12 The programming provided by the CBC should be 13 different, yes, it should from what is provided by 14 other broadcasters, of course it should. This is 15 radio's outstanding achievement. 16 324 Until some years ago I think TV could 17 have said the same thing and I am glad that some people 18 think that it seems to be coming back to where it was 19 before. It would be sad, though, if further decreases 20 in funding and ventures in being all things to all 21 people stripped CBC radio of its unique and important 22 role in celebrating Canada. 23 325 You know, anyone who has travelled 24 and tuned in, in other countries, the States, for 25 example, fruitlessly looking for some distinctive voice StenoTran 81 1 of that particular place on radio can only marvel what 2 we have, it is treasure. Please, support it, nurture 3 it, keep it going. Thank you. 4 326 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 5 you, Mrs. McLeod. And I am pleased, like Mr. Juliani 6 and Ms Campbell, you came forward even if you thought 7 that you could not participate. It was worthwhile, 8 thank you. 9 327 MS PINSKY: Mr. J. Hamburger is the 10 next presenter. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 328 MR. HAMBURGER: Hello. Yeah, I 13 thought I would have a prepared speech, but I guess -- 14 329 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: It is 15 meant to be informal. 16 330 MR. HAMBURGER: Yeah, that is more. 17 331 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: There 18 is no problem there. 19 332 MR. HAMBURGER: That is more of what 20 I was sort of hoping. 21 333 I guess my feelings are that I would 22 hope, of course, just to reiterate a number of points 23 that the woman just ahead of me said that what a great 24 treasure the CBC is. I think it means a lot to many, 25 many people here in Canada. It is really a form of our StenoTran 82 1 personality and our character. I am originally from 2 the States and I am now a citizen of Canada and have 3 over the years listened to U.S. radio. And I can tell 4 you whenever we go down to the U.S. and we turn on the 5 radio down there how desperate we are, I mean really 6 desperate. 7 334 I mean it is kind of -- it is a real 8 mental, spiritual desperation to get back in touch with 9 intelligence. 10 335 Not rabble rousing, not radio for 11 commercial reasons, not radio to make money or radio to 12 sway you to their opinion, but radio to allow one to 13 breathe and think and be educated. And I think that is 14 one of the great things about the CBC. 15 336 Whether or not the funding bodies are 16 hearing compliments, I think you have to have faith in 17 what you are doing in what the CBC is doing. 18 337 Sometimes I really -- I hope this 19 does not sound prejudiced, but I think that some of 20 best minds in Canada are actually working on the CBC. 21 There are days when I am listening and I have to admit 22 I am a CBC addict, radio addict. I mean, we just do 23 not have a TV, we have a small child and we do not have 24 a TV. We do have the radio. I truly wonder how they 25 put on such actually extraordinary programming, the StenoTran 83 1 intelligence and the putting together of programs, the 2 hours that go into it. And also, the announcers, the 3 announcers that we have here in Vancouver, some of them 4 are really extraordinary. I mean, you are just 5 wondering how do they handle so many subjects in the 6 course of a day, let us say when you have your almanac 7 show or your regular daily affairs show, how are they 8 doing it? How do they handle all these different 9 subjects and still stay afloat? 10 338 I myself am a theatre person. I run 11 a tiny, tiny theatre that is desperately trying to stay 12 alive here in Vancouver. And I must say that it does 13 take an effort to get through to the CBC but they have 14 been overall simply wonderful with interviews with us, 15 with allowing occasionally parts of our plays to be 16 broadcast. 17 339 If you only knew how important this 18 is to cultural groups in this city to get that 19 exposure, it really is tax money going to a good 20 purposes. 21 340 And this is the one area now I do 22 want to get into. I am truly distressed about the cuts 23 and the funding. I find it is a political game. I 24 am -- it really is, I think, very upsetting and the 25 woman who spoke prior to me mentioned and she did not StenoTran 84 1 want to go into facts and figures but B.C. is just 2 truly way down at the bottom of the list as to funding 3 for the cultural groups. 4 341 I as a -- I have to fund raise as 5 well know what is going on so you can imagine when we 6 get a little bit of exposure on the CBC how important 7 it is. But to have the CBC going through cuts and I 8 know the present labour stuff is rough, and you may 9 have more people going on strike, but I think that the 10 recent case of the APEC, the reporter at APEC who was 11 coming through with information about the APEC 12 demonstrators and who now is it Terry, I forget his 13 name Milewsky who seems like he has been silenced in 14 some way. This is very dangerous. 15 342 And let us say a Prime Minister or 16 present government does not like the CBC because they 17 are taking an opposite view or they are promoting 18 something that, say, a political party is desperately 19 trying to get through and so you take it out on a 20 public broadcasting system to cut the funding. I think 21 this is something that is grossly unfair and it needs 22 to be looked into. 23 343 And there was a discussion on the CBC 24 the other morning -- I think it was Sunday morning -- 25 how can the CBC be funded in some other way than under, StenoTran 85 1 let us say, the power of a prime minister or the power 2 of a few people in a political party? And I would say 3 that this is maybe something we should look into, that 4 a prime minister could promote someone -- I am sorry, 5 to promote someone to the head of the CBC who they know 6 does not really care very much. Or they know who will 7 slash and burn. 8 344 And I think if some other means, if 9 it is possible, that the CBC could even be more 10 independent in some way not complete, I mean, but it 11 has to answer to something, but to be so under federal 12 funds like this, makes it extremely difficult and I 13 know they must be walking a very, very, very fine line 14 and I think any more cuts are just absolutely 15 horrendous for something that is really a cultural and 16 a spiritual institution for this country. It really 17 does set this country away in a different mode, in a 18 different intelligence than what is going on south of 19 the border which is the United States which is very 20 much a free-for-all. And even the President of the 21 United States has had to call on the radio and some TV 22 people to calm down, stop with the rabble rousing 23 because it can become violent. 24 345 I thank you for having these open 25 sessions. I think this is all part of the wonderful StenoTran 86 1 process that this country and certain institutions 2 offer. But, really, if you knew how important the 3 radio is for so many millions of us and in some ways 4 the TV, it is not a question of cutting, it is a 5 question of getting more money in there for something 6 that is really a wonderful breeding ground for 7 education, for cultural institutions and for actually 8 the growth of minds here in Canada. Thank you. 9 346 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 10 you very much, sir. Thank you. 11 347 MS PINSKY: Those are all the 12 presenters that we have registered for this morning, 13 Madam Chair. 14 348 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: I 15 wonder, should we then go into the next step where we 16 would offer the CBC a chance to make a comment before 17 we break for lunch? Yes. 18 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 19 349 MS HALL: Thank you, Madam Chair. My 20 name is Rae Hall, and I am the regional director for 21 CBC television British Columbia. 22 350 On behalf of my CBC colleagues who 23 are here today I would like to thank you for the 24 opportunity to take part in these proceedings today and 25 to all of the individuals here I would like to thank StenoTran 87 1 you for taking the time to be here. And for those of 2 you who spoke publicly, thank you for the care with 3 which you prepared your comments. 4 351 As the public broadcaster, radio and 5 television belongs to all of us, all Canadians. It is 6 important that this dialogue take place and the passion 7 with which you illustrated your support today and 8 pointed out those areas where we could improve, it is 9 very heartening to hear and as I sat there listening to 10 you, I thought that as you listen and watch the CBC 11 every day, it is critical that we at the CBC have an 12 opportunity to listen to you and your stories and it 13 was a privilege to be able to do that today. 14 352 Many of you have pointed out critical 15 decisions and choices that face CBC television and 16 radio and the reduced resources with which we have to 17 make those choices and hearing what you have to say 18 today helps inform us as we move forward. A few of you 19 had comments to make regarding particular programmes. 20 I would just like to remind you that CBC does have an 21 accountability process. Both the English and French 22 service, that there is an ombudsman to whom you can 23 make any complaints known and receive a response. 24 353 As to your presentations today, we 25 will be responding to each of you individually. Thank StenoTran 88 1 you once again and I look forward to hearing more of 2 the presentations during the CRTC's time here in 3 Vancouver. Thank you. 4 354 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 5 you very much. 6 355 MS PINSKY: I just wanted to note for 7 the record that Mr. Serge Robichaud has supplemented 8 his presentation with a copy of an audio cassette of a 9 June 21st, 1997 broadcast. 10 356 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Well, 11 to all of you, thank you very much for having come 12 forward and participated in our consultation. We will 13 be conducting afternoon session at 1 o'clock and 14 tonight we will have a session at 6 o'clock as well. 15 So thank you to all of you. 16 357 As you have seen, also, the court 17 reporters and the translators are there which will 18 ensure that the time you have taken and the message you 19 have left with us has really a life that will really be 20 part of the public process and part of the public 21 hearing. Thank you very much. 22 --- Recess at 1150 / Suspension à 1150 23 --- Upon resuming at 1300 / Reprise à 1300 24 358 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Bon 25 aprés midi. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen and StenoTran 89 1 welcome to this public consultation on the CBC. 2 359 My name is Françoise Bertrand. I am 3 the CRTC's chairperson. We are here to gather your 4 views and comments on CBC radio and television. In 5 your opinion, how should the Canadian Broadcasting 6 Corporation fulfil its role in the coming years? 7 360 The CBC is a national public service 8 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays 9 an important role in the Canadian broadcasting system. 10 Today many elements are constantly being added to the 11 broadcasting system as new technologies multiply, 12 converge, open up new horizons and increasingly offer 13 new services. In this context we want to know what are 14 your needs and expectations as viewers and listeners of 15 the CBC. 16 361 Given that, it is very important that 17 the commission hears what you have to say. We must not 18 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public 19 organization that serves Canadian citizens. In this 20 capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why my 21 fellow commissioners and myself find it vital to come 22 and meet with you to discuss these issues and why we 23 are holding this series of regional consultations from 24 one end of the country to the other, in 11 Canadian 25 cities, from March 9 to 18th. StenoTran 90 1 362 These consultations are designed to 2 give you a chance on the eve of a new millennium to 3 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 4 it offers and the direction it should take at the 5 national, regional and local levels. 6 363 Through these consultations, we hope 7 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear 8 your concerns. Your comments will form part of the 9 public record which will be added to the record of the 10 public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull, next 11 May 25th. 12 364 At this upcoming hearing, the 13 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the 14 renewal of its licences, including radio, television 15 and its specialty services, "Newsworld" and "Réseau de 16 l'information". You can also take part in that public 17 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. 18 365 Now I would like to come back to 19 today's consultations. Please allow me to introduce to 20 you the CRTC's staff person who is the legal counsel, 21 Ms Carolyn Pinsky and please feel free to call on her 22 with any questions you might have about the process 23 today or any other matter. 24 366 So that you will all have the 25 opportunity to speak, we ask that you please limit your StenoTran 91 1 presentation to 10 minutes. As these consultations are 2 a forum designed especially for you and we want to 3 listen to as many participants as possible, we will not 4 ask any questions unless we need clarification. At the 5 end of this session, representatives from the local CBC 6 stations will have a chance to offer their views as 7 they are naturally very interested by the issues we are 8 discussing here today. 9 367 Before we start, I would ask our 10 legal counsel, Ms Pinsky, to go over some of the 11 housekeeping matters regarding the conduct of this 12 consultation. Thank you. 13 368 MS PINSKY: Thank you, Madam Chair. 14 I just would like to explain briefly the process that 15 we will follow today. I would ask approximately 10 16 presenters to come up and to seat themselves around the 17 table and then I will in turn call upon each presenter 18 to make his or her 10 minute presentation. 19 369 When you begin your presentation 20 please turn on the microphone so that we can have the 21 presentation accurately transcribed and when you are 22 finished, turn it off so that we avoid feedback. We 23 have translation services that are available today and 24 there are devices circulated along the tables and there 25 may be additional devices available at the back desk. StenoTran 92 1 370 As well as those of you who are here 2 today and who do not wish to make an oral presentation, 3 we do have comment sheets that you may fill out at the 4 front desk as you enter the room here. 5 371 Actually, as you enter the entrance 6 way where you can fill out your comments and they will 7 be placed on the public record. 8 372 So now I will call the first group of 9 presenters, some of you are already sitting at the 10 table. Our first presenter will be Mr. Kalle Lasn. I 11 am sorry if I am not pronouncing it correctly. 12 373 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 13 afternoon. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 374 MR. LASN: I want to thank you for 16 coming to Vancouver. I am the director of the 17 not-for-profit society called the Media Foundation. I 18 am also the publisher and the editor of a magazine 19 called "Ad Busters". We have a worldwide circulation 20 of 50,000 and we are actually Canada's best selling 21 magazine in the United States. We call our magazine 22 the journal of the mental environment. Our group, the 23 media foundation is often referred to as the Greenpeace 24 of the mental environment. 25 375 Our mission is to stop what we see as StenoTran 93 1 the erosion of the mental and the cultural environment 2 today. We believe that there is something profoundly 3 wrong with our culture today. One or two generations 4 ago, you know, we the people, we told our own stories 5 and we sang our own songs and we created the culture 6 from the bottom up. But lately more and more of our 7 culture is being spoon fed to us by corporations. 8 There is a kind of top-down feeling of a culture to us. 9 376 Sometimes when I turn on my TV set I 10 feel that culture is oozing out of our TV like some 11 kind of sauna. Many of the people who support the 12 Media Foundation, we feel that our culture has now 13 become a consumer culture and that we are no longer 14 citizens of a democracy but we are now consumers. 15 377 And I think that part of the blame 16 for this cultural degradation, I think it rests on your 17 shoulders, on the shoulders of the CRTC. I think that 18 over the past 40 years you have not really done your 19 job. I think that you have had a very cosy 20 relationship with the broadcasters and your 21 relationship with the people of Canada hasn't been 22 quite as cosy. 23 378 As far as I understand, you are 24 supposed to act in the public interest, but you have 25 allowed the public interest component of television to StenoTran 94 1 erode away over the last 40 years and you have allowed 2 the commercial component to become very powerful and 3 strong to the point where I think that television today 4 has become like a mass merchandising tool. It has 5 become a marketing device that sells our society and 6 our children on a life style of consumption. 7 379 But I did not come here today to 8 lecture you on cultural degradation, I came here 9 because this commercialization of our air waves has now 10 gone so far that Canadian citizens are being denied 11 access to their own television air waves. 12 380 Over the past ten years, the CBC, you 13 know, Canada's public broadcaster, has repeatedly and 14 systematically refused to sell air time to our 15 organization and lots of other non-profit groups in 16 Canada. And I would like to show you three of the 17 many, many spots that have been refused. 18 --- Video presentation / Présentation video. 19 381 MR. LASN: And there is one more spot 20 that I will show you now it is an announcement that we 21 try to show every year on November 27th just before the 22 Christmas shopping day begins. It is a buy nothing day 23 announcement. 24 --- Video presentation / Présentation video. 25 382 MR. LASN: So, for 30 years the CBC StenoTran 95 1 had an advertising standards code book and on page 2 of 2 this code book it said that controversial or 3 contentious advertising will not be aired. So for 30 4 years, these kind of advocacy ads were not allowed on 5 CBC television. 6 383 But then on March the 18th, 1992 7 after we had had many public tussles with the CBC, the 8 CBC president at that time held a press conference and 9 announced that from now on advocacy ads will be allowed 10 on CBC television and he said: 11 "The democratic rights of 12 Canadians will best be served by 13 policies promoting freedom of 14 speech and the legitimate 15 opportunity to be fairly heard." 16 384 But the managers at CBC and 17 especially the managers at CBC Newsworld were not happy 18 with this new policy. They put up various financial 19 and other barriers to people like us who want to air 20 these kind of advocacy messages and they barred us from 21 certain programs. Eventually, the CBC Newsworld 22 refused to sell us any air time whatsoever. Again, 23 they just said that CBC Newsworld is a news channel 24 and, therefore, advocacy ads are not allowed. 25 385 Today at CBC and CBC Newsworld we StenoTran 96 1 have a situation where they will sell air time to BMW 2 and to Volvo and to the other global auto makers but 3 they will not sell air time to Greenpeace or the Media 4 Foundation when we want to talk back at those globe at 5 auto makers. The CBC will sell air time to Clairol and 6 to the cosmetics industry and to the fashion industry 7 but they will not sell air time to the Media Foundation 8 when we want to air this anorexia spot that I just 9 showed you. 10 386 And at Christmas time, the CBC will 11 be airing thousands of proconsumption messages urging 12 people to go out and consume, but they will not sell us 13 air time for one lousy little 30-second spot that tries 14 to announce a buy nothing day. 15 387 I would like to read you Article XIX 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says 17 that everyone has the right to hold opinions without 18 interference and to seek, receive and impart 19 information and ideas through any media, regardless of 20 frontiers. 21 388 And I would like to urge you to make 22 Canada one of the first countries in the world to live 23 up to Article XIX, to recognize that that every human 24 being has the right to access the public air waves. 25 And I urge you to put the spirit of this Article XIX of StenoTran 97 1 the Universal Declaration of Human Rights right into 2 the licences that you grant to the CBC and to the other 3 commercial broadcasters. 4 389 If you have any questions I will be 5 happy to answer them. 6 390 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: No, 7 it is quite clear. Thank you very much for your 8 presentation and your participation in the 9 consultation. Thank you. 10 391 MR. LASN: Thank you. 11 392 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: And 12 even your comments about the CRTC, it is all noted and 13 it is on the public record, thank you. 14 393 MR. LASN: Is it possible for you to 15 make some kind of a commitment to deal with this 16 problem of access and letting the people of Canada know 17 your position on this? 18 394 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Well, 19 certainly we will not make a determination in this. 20 395 MR. LASN: Not a determination, just 21 a commitment to look into it. 22 396 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: It is 23 in the public record and as we have said in all the 24 consultations we have conducted for the last two weeks, 25 it is part of the public hearing for the renewal of the StenoTran 98 1 licences. 2 397 So by the public record and by our 3 presence here what we will do is when we go to the 4 public hearing there will be an exchange and a dialogue 5 with the CBC and all those questions that have been 6 raised in the course of those 11 consultations will be 7 brought to their attention. As a matter of fact, even 8 this afternoon there are people from the CBC here so 9 they may even have a comment this afternoon. 10 398 MR. LASN: But of course what I was 11 saying was actually asking the CRTC why you have not 12 done your job in a sense and allowed Canadians freedom 13 of speech on television which is the most powerful 14 social communications medium of our time. So I am not 15 really asking you to deal with the CBC, but I am asking 16 the CRTC whether you will look into this problem of 17 access. 18 399 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Well, 19 it is a matter that is by the Broadcasting Act which is 20 the act by which we have a responsibility definitely a 21 responsibility we have and that we feel that we are 22 carrying carefully and we take your comment that we can 23 be even more careful. And I do not want to enter into 24 a debate on the way we carry our responsibility. 25 400 MR. LASN: But when a Canadian StenoTran 99 1 citizen cannot walk into his or her local television 2 station, plunk some money on the table and buy some air 3 time, then there is something very wrong with our 4 democracy and I think you should look into it. 5 401 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 6 you for your comment. 7 402 MR. LASN: Thank you. 8 403 MS PINSKY: Ms Nancy Black is the 9 next presenter. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 404 MS BLACK: Thank you. 12 405 I would like to commend the CRTC for 13 providing this forum to all Canadians in preparation 14 for the CBC's licence hearing. I consider this an 15 opportunity for me to give something back to the CBC 16 for its valuable contribution to my life. I will try 17 to express myself in the context of the questions 18 provided. However, I do not feel I am adequately able 19 to respond to them all. 20 406 My comments are focused primarily on 21 Radio One. I have seldom had occasion to listen to 22 Radio Two programming. And, as for television, while I 23 have been delighted by things I have seen on the 24 "Newsroom, "Witness", "Life and Times", "The Fifth 25 Estate" and "The Nature of Things", I am not a regular StenoTran 100 1 viewer of any CBC program. 2 407 But CBC radio has had my ear for the 3 entire 30 years of my life. For the first part as a 4 captive third party audience with my parents at the 5 controls, but at some point during my late teens CBC 6 radio suddenly registered with me. While I would 7 continue to go to MuchMusic or commercial radio to hear 8 my favourite music, the CBC provided intelligent 9 dialogue and insight into the events shaping my life. 10 408 My liability to CBC radio did not 11 come from programming being directly targeted to my age 12 group and, looking back, I think if such attempts had 13 been made I would have been suspicious of them. We 14 should not underestimate Canada's young people. Those 15 who choose to be informed can recognize quality 16 journalism for what it is. They do not need it 17 candy-coated. 18 409 For this reason, I would discourage 19 the CBC from dividing its resources further to try to 20 capture a youth market. Instead, why not use these 21 resources to bring the embattled CBC Radio One closer 22 to its former glory for the benefit of all listeners. 23 410 As a member of the post-boomer 24 generation, I do not feel alienated when listening to 25 CBC radio. My contemporaries, Norah Young, Avril StenoTran 101 1 Benoit and Peter Brown complement the more seasoned 2 personalities like Stewart McLean. Marry-Lou Finley 3 and Jason Moscovitz quite well. All of them bring a 4 finesse and a professionalism that is a CBC hallmark 5 and I expect nothing more. 6 411 Over the past eight years my husband 7 and I have been fortunate to live in a number of 8 western Canadian cities, from Regina to Edmonton to 9 Calgary and now Vancouver. CBC radio has always helped 10 us find the pulse of our new home while keeping us in 11 touch with the happenings of our old one and I 12 challenge anyone to place a value on that. 13 412 I was asked to respond to your 14 question should the programming provided by CBC be 15 different from that of other broadcasters? Yes. By 16 its very definition commercial radio is made possible 17 through advertising dollars and, as a result, 18 commercial radio is influenced by the corporations that 19 fund it. 20 413 And because the CBC is publicly 21 funded and, therefore, free of advertiser influence, 22 its product is more balanced, more diverse and in 23 depth. 24 414 But I am uncomfortable with the 25 spectre of government that occasionally creeps into CBC StenoTran 102 1 programming. Sometimes it may come across as a simple 2 cryptic comment from an on air host, but in the removal 3 of Terry Milewsky from covering the APEC demonstration, 4 it was extremely overt and verging on the totalitarian. 5 415 For the CBC to survive in the new 6 millennium, the old style paternalistic hierarchy has 7 to go. I am not comfortable with the relationship 8 between CBC management and the federal government, and 9 I do not feel the CBC has done an adequate job about 10 informing Canadians about how management is appointed 11 and about how it is accountable. I was pleased last 12 year when the CBC took its management team across 13 Canada on a town hall tour for public input. 14 416 Overwhelming attendance made it 15 almost impossible to get near the Edmonton meeting and 16 for weeks the CBC website was alive with two-way 17 communication between management and regular Canadians 18 and it was exciting to see, but why should this stand 19 out as a momentous event? Should not the leadership of 20 an organization be conspicuous and stand proudly by its 21 product? 22 417 Instead, the popular image of CBC 23 management, whether accurate or not, continues to be 24 that of a reclusive and elitist group of 25 administrators. I would welcome hearing more from StenoTran 103 1 Perrin Beatty and other management giving regular 2 status reports and responding to feedback from 3 Canadians. Contrary to what Rex Murphy called it on 4 Sunday's "Cross-Country Checkup", I do not consider 5 that to be naval-gazing, I call it accountability. 6 418 While I believe the CBC needs to 7 undergo serious change to survive the new millennium, I 8 worry when I hear rumours that it is looking to 9 commercial radio as the model. I think there is a real 10 danger in pandering to what listeners think they want. 11 The lowest common denominator is being well served by 12 commercial radio. 13 419 Allow me to use the analogy of 14 commercial talk radio being to broadcasting what the 15 meat lovers' pizza is to the food world. We all know 16 that all meat all the time causes constipation. Listen 17 to commercial talk radio and you will know what I am 18 talking about. Certain points of view just are not 19 getting through. 20 420 CBC radio offers a healthy variety. 21 It challenges us, it opens doors to things we may not 22 think we need to know. Like the four food groups are 23 to our physical health, CBC radio and its diversity are 24 essential to a healthy mind and spirit. CBC radio is 25 our greatest national product. It is an essential and StenoTran 104 1 unique fund that not only unites our country but 2 enriches those who live here. 3 421 Anyone who has listened to "As It 4 Happens" knows that a large contingent across the 49th 5 parallel flocks to that program because it provides 6 something they cannot get at home. And how many things 7 can Canada still boast that about? Thank you. 8 --- Applause / Applaudissements 9 422 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 10 you very much madam black. 11 423 MS PINSKY: Joan Robinson. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 424 MS ROBINSON: I too would first like 14 to thank the CRTC for giving us the opportunity of 15 expressing our desires and hopes. I am confining my 16 remarks to the CBC radio only which is the only radio 17 program I listen to as I cannot stand the ads in every 18 other station. 19 425 Involvement with advertisers means 20 that they have control on programs and this would 21 interfere with the CBC's mandate. So my first petition 22 is: No ads on CBC radio. I think emphasis should be 23 placed on the nation-wide service provided by the CBC. 24 Canada's only station with a national listenership and 25 with one possible recent exception of the national StenoTran 105 1 newspaper, our only national media, I feel very 2 strongly about the value of the CBC as the national 3 exhibition of Canadian characteristics and culture. It 4 demonstrates so clearly the alternative to some 5 American programs. 6 426 CBC is listened to all over America 7 because of its content. In this connection, could not 8 support by the CRTC be given towards retention of CBC 9 foreign broadcasts which not only are valued by our 10 citizens serving abroad but also continue in informing 11 the rest of the world about Canada. 12 427 I submit that we need a national news 13 service which includes world news. We need national 14 support for Canadian culture, but setting a high 15 standard for inclusion in the program. 16 428 We need a classical music program 17 during the daytime, not this "Classics and Beyond" 18 stuff, beyond is obtainable from many other stations. 19 It is nice to be able to make requests for music and 20 these requests come from all over the continent. 21 429 We need high standard programs such 22 as "As It Happens". I would like the addition of more 23 panel programs such as "Cross Canada Checkup", which 24 perhaps could have more political content so as to give 25 the public more chance to express approval or StenoTran 106 1 disapproval of government actions. 2 430 Quiz programs on general subjects 3 such as given by the BBC would be great. 4 431 In view of the financial constraints 5 placed on the CBC by the government, I will stick my 6 neck out and suggest CBC get out of television all 7 together which would release present TV funds to boost 8 the CBC radio and re-establish it as the best radio 9 station on this continent. Thank you. 10 --- Applause / Applaudissements 11 432 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 12 you very much, Madam Robinson. 13 433 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Ms 14 Linda Kelly. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 434 MS KELLY: Thank you. My name is 17 Linda Kelly and I am here as an individual listener to 18 CBC radio. I do not represent any special interest 19 group I am just here as a individual listener to CBC. 20 435 I would like to preface my remarks by 21 saying that I welcome the dialogue these hearings are 22 initiating and hope that the discussions will assist in 23 resolving many of the challenges facing the CBC. 24 436 I am going to focus on three points 25 facing the CBC. Number one, current programs, StenoTran 107 1 suggestions for programs and the future of the CBC. 2 Most of my comments will deal with CBC radio, since I 3 do not have a television set. 4 437 However, I would like to say a few 5 words about one CBC television program that I am able 6 to watch on video and that is "Davinci's Inquest". I 7 find that this is an excellent police drama. It is 8 filmed in Vancouver and has a great cast and superb 9 scripts. The appeal of this show is that it is local 10 in nature, it keeps the place names like Surrey and 11 Burnaby that may be embarrassing to some people, but it 12 gives it a nice kind of local slant and I think it 13 rises far above generic television series. 14 438 Turning to CBC radio and its current 15 programming, CBC Radio One and Two are excellent 16 professional broadcasting services which I find deliver 17 news, current affairs, entertainment and information in 18 a very balanced manner. 19 439 I appreciate having 24-hour access to 20 radio 365 days a year to what is happening in my city, 21 my country and around the world. In such programs as 22 "As It Happens", "The House," This Morning", "CBC 23 Overnight" and local morning and afternoon information 24 programs. 25 440 As well, I enjoy such programs as StenoTran 108 1 "Ideas", "In Performance", "Jurgin Goth", "Radiosonic", 2 "After Hours with Ross Porter", and "Writers and 3 Companies". These are the ones that I usually listen 4 to so you can see that I listen to a lot of radio. 5 441 These radio programs provide access 6 to events which I would otherwise not have. For 7 instance, "In Performance" provides access to concert 8 halls throughout Canada and around the world. And it 9 familiarizes me with music of Canadians through such 10 efforts as the Young Composers Competition. 11 442 As well, "As It Happens" talks 12 directly to the news makers whether they be world 13 leaders or the ordinary person and the recent series on 14 Russia was exceptional. With interviews from everyone 15 from a Cosmonaut to the head of the Hermitage Museum to 16 former political dissidents. 17 443 In local programs, Vancouver's 18 afternoon show recently covered health care issues by 19 taking listeners through the doors of Surrey Memorial 20 Hospital with a live broadcast. And I would like to 21 see more of this on-site coverage. 22 444 But I think it is CBC's investigative 23 reports which put it ahead of other broadcasters. In 24 the past few months, the CBC has dared to cover such 25 issues as under world crime and the HIV crisis in StenoTran 109 1 Canada's penitentiaries. 2 445 The second point I would like to 3 address is my wish list for CBC programming. I would 4 just like to have more of it. For example, more 5 features on Canadian history, a greater focus on young 6 people and seniors, and more representations from 7 various cultural groups. 8 446 With the reworking of Canada's map 9 next month with the creation of Nunavut, I would like 10 to hear more programming in our north. 11 447 I think Canadian programs such as 12 "Radiosonic", and Vancouver's "North by Northwest", 13 give exposure to Canadian talent but I would also like 14 to see more programs about Canadian writers and 15 artists. 16 448 I would also like to hear more on 17 world literature such as the great text series which 18 was presented recently on "This Morning", with Michael 19 Enright and Avril Benoit. 20 449 CBC's new "Outfront" series gives 21 ordinary Canadians access to air time and it has been 22 encouraging to see that a lot of these contributions 23 have come from young people. In a time when CBC is 24 criticized for attracting mostly an aging audience, it 25 is refreshing to find that "Outfront" brings not only a StenoTran 110 1 different perspective but an experimental format to 2 radio largely from young contributors. It really needs 3 to go after a younger audience, I feel. 4 450 The current labour dispute at CBC and 5 the cut backs over the past number of years are giving 6 us a taste of what a diminished CBC is like. This 7 brings me to my final point and the reason I am here 8 today and that is to lobby for the future of the CBC. 9 451 I am concerned that the CBC will not 10 be around much longer because of cut backs and because 11 of the mind set that the CBC is no longer relevant. 12 The truth is, the CBC is always having to justify its 13 existence. It faces challenges from a number of 14 fronts, from apathy, from people who would like to see 15 it dismantled, from those who would want it privatized, 16 to questions about relevancy of its programs to the 17 commercialism that is creeping into its programs 18 through endorsement of products. 19 452 Moreover, the arm's length approach 20 relationship of government to the CBC has narrowed and 21 this raises concerns about where funding should come 22 from for the CBC. 23 453 In the past few years, the CBC has 24 been resilient in doing the best with the funding it 25 receives. But how far can this resiliency stretch StenoTran 111 1 before it affects the quality of programmes? Many 2 listeners already agree that the quality of programming 3 has suffered. 4 454 Funding is one of the major 5 challenges facing the CBC and it needs to be examined 6 in depth if the broadcaster is to continue to fulfil 7 its mandate to provide programming which reflects and 8 promotes Canadian culture. The administrators, 9 programmers, reporters, on air personalities and 10 technicians who make up the CBC do a tremendous job, I 11 feel, given the resources that they have available. 12 And I believe they are always trying to meet the needs 13 of their audience by providing a wide choice in 14 programming. 15 455 But there is no doubt that the tastes 16 of the audience do change and the CBC has to continue 17 to respond to those changes through innovative 18 programming especially aimed, I feel, at a younger 19 audience. While a lot of other radio stations provide 20 repetitive, limited programming, CBC continues to offer 21 intelligent, balanced and professional reports and 22 features. 23 456 Moreover, the CBC unites Canadians as 24 a community by enabling us to talk and listen and share 25 ideas through the broadcasting medium. StenoTran 112 1 457 Please let the CBC continue to fulfil 2 its mandate. Thank you very much for letting me 3 express my views. 4 458 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 5 you. 6 459 MS PINSKY: Ms Goldie Rodgers in the 7 next presenter. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 460 MS RODGERS: I wish to speak about 10 CBC non-commercial FM, AM radio. It is the only radio 11 station I turn on and I hope that I will be able to 12 have it with me all my days and I miss it right now, 13 the first day when the engineers rightfully went on 14 strike, I was lost. 15 461 My first real point on CBC is as has 16 been stated it is national, t is not national, it is a 17 national treasure. Can you think of a country that 18 would dispose of one of its most treasurable cultural 19 items? It binds the entire country together from the 20 Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific coast, including the 21 Arctic Ocean. 22 462 My second point, and you asked us to 23 speak as regards regional programs, I feel that the 24 daily three-hours, AM radio program is sufficient time 25 in which to learn what takes place in the different StenoTran 113 1 regions of our country. 2 463 I would like to be better informed in 3 greater depth as to what is taking place in the 4 northern territories such as a has been mentioned 5 Nunavut and I have Innuvik down, too, but it just means 6 that I wish to know more about what is happening there. 7 464 Now, I want to give a little comment 8 here. This is not regional, this is national radio. 9 But I find no better source of information or for the 10 type of newspapers that we have here than the daily 11 news on the CBC radio, both FM and AM. Being that it 12 is only half an hour, it contains much more in depth 13 information and information even from international 14 issues than I can get in newspaper. 15 465 I do not really trust quite what the 16 sponsors of a man like Black are giving me or even an 17 emergency I will turn on the television only if there 18 is a very great emergency and I have to find out what 19 is happening or what new battles certain countries are 20 engaging in, but essentially it is the radio that I get 21 really news items that I can think about and maybe try 22 to relate to and do better. 23 466 You asked about the amount of 24 Canadian content. Those persons -- no, I am going to 25 skip this, just a minute. I believe the Canadian StenoTran 114 1 content on CBC radio, FM and AM is sufficient as is. 2 As for TV, that is for others to discuss Canadian 3 content. I don't know anything about it because I do 4 not watch it, except for perhaps -- no, the only thing 5 I really watch is the Knowledge Network, if ever. 6 467 The excellence of the content is the 7 criteria, whether it is Canadian or not. Of course, in 8 areas where Canadian content excels, use it. For 9 example, if it is a rock music performance, by all 10 means let us hear these Canadian artists. 11 468 If there is another wonderful group 12 of performers from another country, it would be 13 interesting to listen to them, but give the Canadian 14 performers preference in the allotted time. 15 469 As regards contemporary Canadian 16 composers, the CBC radio FM provides a programme called 17 "Two New Hours". You hear that every Sunday evening, 18 whether it comes from the new music festivals in oh, 19 gosh, the middle province, not Alberta but -- not 20 Saskatchewan, Manitoba. Yeah, whether it seems to have 21 more backing at the start at least from Manitoba or 22 whether it comes as last night, maybe Alberta, but you 23 have that evening which is very supportive of Canadian 24 composers. 25 470 Now that program that I heard, I StenoTran 115 1 believe it was last night, they had finalists from all 2 over Canada. These people do not have to be Canadian 3 born, they just had to have Canadian citizenship. And 4 Jack did a perfectly beautiful piece. I was glad they 5 gave them him the first prize, but the other two people 6 were also very good. 7 471 And in modern music I do not often 8 say "very good". I am a musician, and I am rather 9 critical. You can also hear on that station "Two New 10 Hours" Armory Shaver, a very fine composer of -- a 11 Canadian, contemporary. But the beauty of that is, and 12 that is not "Music and Beyond", that is that they all 13 also had on that program not last night, but they had 14 many other programs where they are intelligent enough 15 to understand that there are composers all over the 16 world and they will present composers who come to the 17 festivals on the radio station who have come from other 18 countries. 19 472 I heard something so beautiful by a 20 Finnish composer it was more modern than Sibelius and a 21 lot of people knew about that composer but I did not 22 and I heard that on "Two New Hours". And so I will 23 tell you that a certain amount of Canadian content is 24 necessary, but you have to think carefully of what the 25 criteria is. Now, every -- let us see, I took care of StenoTran 116 1 that one. 2 473 Another thing that is so marvelous 3 about the radio stations, CBC and this one is FM two, 4 although I listen to FM one also. FM two gives you 5 concerts but sometimes those concerts are live. 6 474 Now, a live concert is to me almost 7 as good as being there. 8 475 A concert that is recorded except for 9 Glenn Gould, whose records could be done 28 times until 10 he got it right and it sounds alive, most recorded 11 recordings which are not live, records never take the 12 place of a live performance. But here you can at least 13 get a live performance, sometimes you will hear Charles 14 Dubois direct, right from Montreal, or you will also go 15 to Thompson Centre and if Pekka Jukka Saraste is 16 conducting, it is wonderful. Not always, but we get 17 live programs and they go throughout the country. 18 476 The arts are international. And that 19 has to be reckoned with. So, for example, on stage on 20 Sunday, oh, it is very nice to hear Antoine Cartier, he 21 is a remarkable pianist. I call him one of the 22 treasures that the United States has given to Canada. 23 477 But do you think I am going to turn 24 off and say I do not want to hear anyone from the 25 European broadcasting system? I heard Louis Lortie do StenoTran 117 1 Beethoven's fourth here right in our own Orpheum, but I 2 also heard him do it over the European broadcasting 3 system. You have to be open, not just Canadian 4 content. I believe we have sufficient Canadian content 5 on CBC radio. 6 478 Now I am going to share a funny 7 little anecdote with you. In the early 1980s, and I am 8 not making it up, it really happened, over the CBC 9 radio, it must have been the FM, I heard a member of 10 Parliament complaining about the CBC radio FM. He 11 wanted to know why the FM radio plays music vie by a 12 foreigner named Beethoven. 13 479 Now, recently we lost one of our 14 great composers, Harry Sommers. And I am looking 15 forward to that late day that Eric Friesen said we were 16 going to have in which we could hear many of his things 17 programmed and I would love it and I would love 18 especially to hear the opera "Louis Riel" if they would 19 do that again some time in Canada. 20 480 But that does, just because I want to 21 see that, and so badly, that does not mean that I do 22 not want to hear music by a foreigner named Beethoven. 23 Well, I think I took care of the Canadian content. 24 481 The fourth thing I have to say is CBC 25 radio FM and AM radio is a learning experience. As StenoTran 118 1 some of the other speakers have implied, I, too, feel 2 that there is so much knowledge. The knowledge comes 3 not out of the air, it comes because the people who 4 host those programs are many times wonderful 5 authoritative people in the fields that they host. So 6 you do not just get a commentator who puts on something 7 or says something, but at any rate, you do not get 8 that, you get real information and then even if you 9 think you know a lot about something, you find out 10 more. 11 482 I am afraid to name too many people 12 that I like because I will hurt some of those that I 13 leave out. So please forgive me because I know that 14 there are some of those wonderful commentators that I 15 am not going to talk about but here are some special 16 things. 17 483 I think Sheila Rodgers is doing a 18 good job on "Take 5". I miss Kenneth Winters like 19 everything but he is not on the CBC any more. The 20 music is terrific on the FM and even if you want to say 21 "Music and Beyond" usually the beyond is nothing to 22 sneer at they are doing a darn good job with what they 23 have if you do not like that terminology you can take 24 it away but you cannot take away the good things they 25 are doing with the beautiful programming they have in StenoTran 119 1 music. 2 484 I have referred to classical -- not 3 exactly popular music, they can get all the other on 4 any other place. 5 485 One of the programs that I love the 6 most I share with another person here who mentioned it, 7 that program "Writers and Company". Where do you get a 8 person who knows how to interview and who knows the 9 writers and who is able to speak every week to a 10 different writer from all countries, from our country, 11 with supreme intelligence, Eleanor Wachtel is a gem. 12 486 Now, that takes care of -- you learn, 13 that is literature. 14 487 You know you can get ten different 15 versions of Beethoven's "Emperor" concerto. Well, 16 whose version will you take? You may not always agree 17 with him, but Rick Phillips has very good and sound 18 advice. I am so old-fashioned I still have my old 19 record of Claudio Arou doing the "Emperor". 20 488 But it is so wonderful hearing 21 comparisons made and Rick Phillips is so versatile in 22 the different performers that he gives us. 23 489 I do want to thank Sheila Roberts for 24 doing a beautiful thing for Yehudi Menuin the other 25 day. And it was so nice to hear him with CBC and StenoTran 120 1 Canada's Glenn Gould because apparently they played 2 together and there were recordings in their archives. 3 490 Sometimes at night I kid some people 4 and I say which do I go to bed with is it going to be 5 Eric Friesen, or is it going to be Lester Sinclair. 6 Lester Sinclair's program and ideas and Bernie Lukt, 7 his producer, are to be totally commended. 8 491 As you know, Lester does not always 9 do the exact program, but he gets the people many times 10 that are in charge of the programming to get research 11 persons who present the issues. The person named, I 12 think it is Paul Kennedy, who recently also went to 13 Russia and to many of this type of thing, it is due to 14 Lester Sinclair and his own programs are very, very 15 good, too. 16 492 And the latest knowledge that I 17 learned the overnight was about schizophrenia. I am 18 not a schizophrenic but I have a friend who has a 19 daughter who is. And, you know, this might interest 20 you. Schizophrenic -- people that are twins that are 21 identical, one of them could be schizophrenic and one 22 not, but the only difference that they have found is 23 that in the brain, where apparently certain genes are 24 located, the genes of the schizophrenic one has more 25 space around it and that is seemingly the difference of StenoTran 121 1 why one is and one is not. 2 493 Well, that is not the cure, but at 3 least it gives you a little bit of something for the 4 scientists to work on in the brain as to what is taking 5 place in that other area, the ventricle, in the brain 6 of the twin who is schizoid. Well, that is not music, 7 my field, but look how much more I can learn. And of 8 course I always force myself to listen to things about 9 computers. Okay. 10 494 Number five, maybe the reason I sound 11 a little different from some of you is because although 12 I had a wonderful Canadian husband, I was born in New 13 York. And I have dual Canadian-United States 14 citizenship. So, therefore, I feel qualified to state 15 that, with all its wealth and power, the United States 16 has nothing to compare with our CBC. 17 --- Applause / Applaudissements 18 495 MS RODGERS: It is truly a national 19 cultural treasure, even for the listeners from the 20 United States who write in to thank us for presenting 21 the wonderful musical programs they hear because their 22 station now no longer is presenting that kind of a 23 program that they were used to. 24 496 There are a few stations in the 25 States that are extremely relevant. One of them was StenoTran 122 1 blown up in Texas when I lived there, but I understand 2 from a friend that they are doing a good job, but they 3 are minute. It is nothing to compare with what we 4 have. 5 497 So what can we do to save it? The 6 numerous cuts -- I do not want to even talk or hear 7 about them because they are obnoxious and the idea of 8 the federal government not supporting their own 9 national treasure. Allowing this treasure to die -- 10 they are not going to be allowed to die, we are going 11 to fight it like anything. 12 498 I suggest we write letters. You 13 know, letters count. I forget if it is 900 for every 14 letter to a person. I happen to be one of these who do 15 writes letters and usually my letters get answered and 16 on top of getting answered sometimes I even help to 17 find solutions. And that is the truth. 18 499 So let me suggest to whom you might 19 right and I think you know the type of a letter, be it 20 polite or not it is almost nice to say what our country 21 has that someone else cannot take away or cannot even 22 compare to because not only flattering, it is the 23 truth. 24 500 You may right to Chrétien, cultural 25 minister Sheila Copps, who I think is a sympathetic StenoTran 123 1 human being and to one that I do not write to very 2 often who once never answered a letter of mine, Paul 3 Martin, but he is the finance minister and I want to 4 have him know that for a finance minister to refuse a 5 national treasure to continue to live is most unusual 6 because treasures and finance are related. 7 501 You may also decide to become a 8 friend of the CBC, which I am not the most affluent 9 friend but I certainly am a friend of the CBC and give 10 them whatever I can to spare. The CRTC is asking us to 11 assess the CBC. I can give you one assessment. You 12 should be proud to be able to assess such a wonderful 13 CBC radio program that we have in Canada. 14 502 And now I want to tell you a personal 15 story. We no longer have much of CBC international the 16 way it was. The friend who has typed my statement has 17 had a new life in Canada since 1985. Thanks to CBC 18 international radio he had a short wave set which he 19 listened to when he was living in fear in Chile under 20 the Pinochet regime. I don't know if I shall go any 21 further with it. He told me that maybe they -- maybe 22 we should not because it might be political and I am 23 not -- I have the names of the ambassador in Chile at 24 that time who was wonderful and I can give you the name 25 of the person if you need to have it. So I have them, StenoTran 124 1 but I am not stating them here. 2 503 When he heard that program, and they 3 said on it, if any of you are having extremely 4 difficult political problems, why don't you contact the 5 Canadian embassy. The very next day, he called the 6 lady, and this is all in Spanish that that program was 7 presented. The next day he called the lady at the 8 Chilean embassy -- no, he called the Canadian embassy 9 and received the lady who spoke to him in Spanish, oh, 10 no, I don't know what you are talking about and he said 11 but I do know what I am talking about. I have a short 12 wave radio and I heard them say that. So I want to see 13 the ambassador. So she got in touch with the 14 ambassador and she said he will have to fill out quite 15 a few pages of what his problem is and then perhaps we 16 will get in touch. 17 504 I want you to know that within eight 18 months after that, that man was told you can come to 19 Canada, you are a political refugee and we will help 20 you all we can and now he is a graduate of BCIT and he 21 is able to have a little business in welding of his own 22 and is extremely happy to be able to know that he typed 23 my letter to tell you how wonderful the CBC 24 international was and he told me, again, it saved his 25 life. StenoTran 125 1 505 I think that is enough out of me. 2 --- Applause / Applaudissements 3 506 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 4 you very much, Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you very much. 5 507 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Ms 6 Jillian Tebbitt. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 508 MS TEBBITT: Thank you for the 9 opportunity to make this submission. My focus is on 10 radio and I deal initially with CBC's role and 11 differences with the private broadcast media. If there 12 is no public medium, and if what I want to say is 13 contrary to that which the private media publish or 14 broadcast, then how does my voice get heard? It does 15 not. 16 509 The role of our public broadcaster 17 and particularly the non-commercial radio service of 18 CBC is that of the guardian of Canadian democracy. 19 Democracy, of course, does not suit control freaks or 20 those who feel entitled to deny entitlement to others 21 as it is really a negotiation process aimed at finding 22 win-win relationships. 23 510 On the bottom line of this role is a 24 profound respect for the interests of diverse members 25 of our society and the cost of airing, exploring and StenoTran 126 1 debating the issues which arise out of that diversity 2 is what democracy costs. The private media, both print 3 and broadcast, have a different bottom line summed up 4 succinctly in the island community newspaper when 5 Southam absorbed the "Times-Colonist" last year. 6 511 Suggest wants the same thing that 7 Thompson wanted, a good and profitable newspaper that 8 reflects and leads the community it covers. 9 512 Reflecting their own leadership is 10 part of the bottom line of the private media where 11 freedom of the press includes the freedom to be 12 self-censoring. 13 513 Where CBC is the messenger of the vox 14 populi, the voice of the people, the private media 15 regard themselves not only of the vox dei but as the 16 voice of God itself. 17 514 If CBC is indistinguishable from 18 private broadcasters, then why have CBC? It makes no 19 sense to me that, to be competitive, CBC must 20 homogenize with a private format. To do so would be to 21 sabotage the public voice and in effect would dismantle 22 our democracy. 23 515 However, if CBC in its own internal 24 culture becomes an advocate for specific political 25 religious, academic, scientific, corporate et al StenoTran 127 1 positions, then it ceases to be a safe custodian for 2 diverse opinion and discussion. 3 516 So essential to the role of the 4 public broadcaster is journalistic difference between 5 reportage and opinion, advocacy and impartiality. 6 517 The following gives some indication 7 of kinds of discomfort I have around CBC's internal 8 cultural voice. In recent years I have heard both in 9 the text of news reportage and in the sneering derisive 10 tones of a number of interviewers what has at times 11 amounted to a relentless targeting of governments and 12 indeed of government per se which I expect from the 13 privately owned media. 14 518 Demanding accountability from all our 15 governments is essential to our democracy. What 16 concerns me about the shark feed is that I don't know 17 for how long any person in any job can withstand 18 undiluted negative feedback and maintain their 19 equilibrium and effectiveness. I feel that if the 20 standards of stateship decline, then we the people in 21 both our private and public media play a part and carry 22 a share of accountability for that decline. 23 519 Relevant to me as a listener and 24 voter is spirited political discourse aired regularly 25 and providing a full spectrum of opinion for CBC to StenoTran 128 1 become a positional player or act as official 2 opposition rather than be a facilitator of the debate 3 reduces everything into a good guys, bad guys, our 4 side, their side scrum which we see too much in 5 politics itself. 6 520 It is obvious while listening to the 7 political critique, that conspicuous by its absence is 8 critique of the same magnitude of other power sectors 9 whose decisions and actions have equal or maybe even 10 more impact on the structure of our society. 11 521 Lise Noel, in her book "Intolerance, 12 a General Survey", opens her first chapter with the 13 sentence: "The oppressor has no apparent existence, 14 i.e., is invisible." 15 522 As the private media are reluctant to 16 demand accountability or visibility from their own 17 interest group, CBC is the only medium that can level 18 the same magnitude of critique and exert the same 19 pressure for accountability and visibility upon all 20 those who wield power, whether political, economic or 21 otherwise. The arm's length relationship embraces more 22 than just governments and the "we have no choice" 23 mantra from folks who have more choice than most needs 24 a good challenge. 25 523 The question of impartiality also StenoTran 129 1 applies to the increase in religious content in daily 2 programming. Religion is enormously important in the 3 lives of many and important to many others is the 4 critique and exploration of beliefs and dogma. Without 5 debate on religion in the schedule, there arises a 6 concern about advocacy in CBC's own voice. 7 524 Also, the opinions, values and 8 judgmentalism on Sunday's "Cross-Country Checkup" so 9 overwhelms the airwaves that I am left wondering 10 whether the intent is to discourage views with which 11 the host disagrees. I think his undoubted humour and 12 idiosyncratic language, it takes one to recognize one, 13 needs an unambiguous opinion spot all of its own. 14 525 One personal point, while I know that 15 radio audiences are chronologically enriched, there are 16 some of us who still have a pulse. 17 526 I should be grateful if CBC would 18 revisit its retropolicy, the good old days were good 19 only for some where, anything but democratic, and I 20 feel it is time to go bravely and creatively forwards 21 into the coming years. 22 527 On national regional service and 23 Canadian programming, on national programs I enjoy 24 immensely the reports from the periphery, that is we, 25 the regions, yet I do not really hear Yukon, the StenoTran 130 1 Northwest Territories, Manitoba or Nova Scotia as they 2 hear themselves. 3 528 I still feel separated from the rest 4 of Canada and would welcome hearing original local 5 programming occasionally aired nationally. This might 6 alleviate the impression that everything has been 7 pretty-fied by production central in Montreal and 8 Toronto. 9 529 Canadian programs about and by 10 Canadians are a fundamental part of CBC's role. As 11 insularity and narcissism are the down sides of too 12 much of our own stuff, I feel it important to maintain 13 a balance with international content and the current 14 schedule achieves this. "Ideas, "Writers and Company" 15 and the many documentaries are examples of extremely 16 fine programming. A balance between issues of 17 substance with humour and entertainment is also 18 important. I feel CBC achieves a successful mix. 19 530 The "Dead Dog Cafe" comedy hour's 25 20 minutes is a satirical highlight I appreciate greatly. 21 It is also about the only truly first nation's voice I 22 hear that is not anthropologized or confined to news 23 items on land claims. 24 531 At times I hear on CBC's internal 25 culture voice that Canadians are a population half of StenoTran 131 1 whom came with the camembert from Calais and the other 2 half came with the bangers and mash from Bornemouth. 3 532 I feel there is a cultural richness 4 in our land which can be further explored in 5 programming. 6 533 In conclusion, I have never felt that 7 CBC's executive make a strong enough case for CBC's 8 role as the custodian of our Canadian democracy. If 9 this role is not clarified in CBC's mandate, then a 10 further examination of the mandate seems necessary 11 together with an examination of CBC's internal cultural 12 voice. Vital to CBC's role is the provocative, dynamic 13 critical dialogue, in-depth, investigative and 14 documentary programming on both national and 15 international issues which CBC is so accomplished at 16 producing and which are costly. 17 534 However, for any government to close 18 the public purse to the public voice raises serious 19 questions as to the continued status of Canada as a 20 democracy. 21 535 Finally, my years of work in the 22 severely censored media of a fascist police state 23 together with the global evidence of how whole 24 populations become social road kill in places where 25 they are denied a voice have provided me with a deep StenoTran 132 1 and abiding respect for the civility which we work to 2 create in our society. 3 536 CBC is my most cherished institution 4 in the service of this aspect of Canadian identity. 5 --- Applause / Applaudissements 6 537 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 7 you. 8 538 MS PINSKY: Mr. Donald Morin is the 9 next presenter. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 539 MR. MORIN: Good afternoon everyone 12 thank you for being here. CBC has lost its original 13 mandate as a national broadcaster due to the 14 proliferation of cable TV, home video, direct TV, 15 interactive technologies and multimedia platforms. 16 CBC's role is further weakened by the expansion of 17 private broadcasting consortiums and the 18 monumentalization of joint venture communication 19 corporations. Another detriment to CBC is the 20 Americanization of Canadian culture and the ideological 21 preference of viewers in the highly mediated world of 22 constant and immediate change. 23 540 Through technology, we have come to 24 the point of oversaturation. What is more immediate 25 than immediate for people without this technological StenoTran 133 1 access, CBC may have been simply a household fixture 2 for people in rural areas. On the other hand, 3 information technology should remain accessible for all 4 Canadians. 5 541 There is more work to be done in the 6 areas of cultural appropriation, cultural propaganda, 7 cultural protectionism within both private and public 8 spheres. 9 542 A good example of these multifaceted 10 ideas is Sheila Copps' position with the mass screen 11 and film industries. Specifically, American's reaction 12 to the magazine tariffs. And, secondly, B.C.'s film 13 industry's reaction to the proposed feature film 14 legislation. 15 543 Trade wars and economic 16 protectionism. CBC must encourage and help develop 17 Canadian feature film and television productions in 18 Canada. Another aspect of appropriation relates to 19 colonialism and more importantly how cultural 20 authenticity has become a central issue. 21 544 An example of this is TVNC's 22 Aboriginal People's Television Network, APTN. Such 23 competition will encourage the idea that CBC scrutinize 24 its relationship with aboriginal producers and 25 producers of culturally diverse background. StenoTran 134 1 545 CBC must provide Canadian programming 2 which is reflective of current market value and respect 3 for one's culture and history. Aboriginal people's 4 cultural credibility and more importantly their 5 authenticity must be a priority. 6 546 Cultural propaganda has been historic 7 evidence resulting from the exploitation of culture by 8 mechanisms of the state. Examples of these mechanisms 9 are illustrated triumph of the will, even though Ms 10 Riefenstall had an amazing career as a film maker, her 11 most scarring project came under the German government 12 film board UFA studio, opening credits stated produced 13 by order of the Furer, directed by Riefenstall. 14 547 Next the CIA's and U.S. invasion of 15 Guatemala in 1954. CIA created a radio station and 16 propagated information to the Guatemalans who encourage 17 dissent against the government. The leader died in 18 exile, a result of the direct corporate and 19 governmental complicity. 20 548 The Gustafson and Oka incidents are 21 further examples of how cultural apparatuses are used 22 in favour of producing a negative reaction against the 23 First Nations people. Smugglers insurgents, 24 provocateurs, militants, inaccurate RCMP reports given 25 to reporters, television, radio and print media, StenoTran 135 1 including CBC, dutifully created biting, jarring and 2 insightful native and non-native relations. When does 3 a story stop becoming news and become a media tool in 4 media promoted events. Here references include APEC 5 and the CBC reporter. What exactly happened with 6 Chrétien, APEC's CBC reporter Terry Milewsky, the 7 e-mails Gerald Morin and Ted Hughes. Propaganda has 8 become a media marketing tool. 9 549 Another question is whether or not 10 native land claims will be settled to these questions 11 and others. I truly hope that CBC provides leadership 12 by promoting aboriginal interests in all spheres 13 another conscientious issue is whether or not 14 aboriginals will form a third level of government. It 15 would seem plausible, given the constitutional status 16 of aboriginal people in section 35 of the Constitution. 17 550 It is unfortunate that television 18 technology has given impetuousness to the power of the 19 state. Information is good. However, when it is used 20 to infringe on collective rights, one then can see the 21 arbitrariness of police power. 22 551 As a result, Charter of Rights 23 provisions such as free speech, liberty and equality 24 rights are ignored. At that point, rule of law is 25 meaningless. StenoTran 136 1 552 Finally, these concerns that I raise 2 also affect other issues such as social disparities, 3 divisions between races and economic repercussions. 4 Does CBC truly represent Canada's true identity? In my 5 current film, "For You Babe, Kichibanitu", many of 6 these these issues are portrayed. 7 553 If Canadian broadcasters begin to see 8 the value within this film, I seriously believe that I 9 can deliver an honest and timely story about 10 contemporary native and non-native issues. 11 554 While working at CBC it was not hard 12 to see systemic racism. Moreover, it is my view that 13 systemic racism, although not deliberate, affects 14 content and programming on the CBC. 15 555 Due to a commitment by CBC employment 16 equity, I was hired as a production assistant. On my 17 first day working as an assistant, one non-native 18 producer commented during my introduction, "Why 19 couldn't we find one of them in here." 20 556 Another illustration occurred during 21 a production meeting back then when a current 22 non-native producer made a racist comment. I quote, in 23 her words: "Well, the Injuns are at it, again." 24 557 This was during the 1990s when 25 native/non-native relations are strained. Given the StenoTran 137 1 report, it is my opinion that CBC associates may have a 2 tainted view of aboriginal people overall. My question 3 is whether or not this is determinative of society's 4 position. If yes, it is then CBC must lead the way by 5 reinforcing positive affirmations of role models 6 through film and media. Failure to do so will result 7 in historical stereotyping of aboriginals that so often 8 plagues our society. 9 558 It was a learning experience to work 10 at CBC. People as a whole must understand the 11 pre-conceptions of colonialism in order to mitigate 12 against the propagation of the past. There must be a 13 healing and understanding at this point people have an 14 idea of the genocidal impact of these difficult tiles. 15 559 CBC must play a vital role in 16 educating new immigrants and other new Canadians 17 regarding stereotypes, misconceptions and other 18 negative notions of aboriginal which is all totally 19 unacceptable. 20 560 CBC's commitment to "The Rez" was 21 reasonable in its presentation but totally void of 22 authenticity. The program may have hired native actors 23 and native staff they are nothing more than interpreter 24 artists, working on a project adapted from a non-native 25 author. Non-native people making money off of StenoTran 138 1 aboriginal representation. 2 561 A better way is to allow aboriginal 3 artists young and old to retain key creative and 4 producing positions. One other example in the 5 commitment alluded to above was "North of 60". It was 6 a promising show and perhaps justifiable given the 7 number of opportunities for aboriginal artists. 8 Stories were dynamic, engaging and entertaining. 9 However, another fictional representation of reserve 10 and native life and misrepresentational on the reserve 11 of the downtown east side of Vancouver. 12 562 CBC's 1998 coverage of the crack 13 problem on the Vancouver east side further exacerbated 14 the plight of many urban natives living off the 15 reserves. Is this the appropriate forum to make 16 judgment on segments of our society? I think not. 17 563 The reality of the plights of natives 18 living in the east end arbitrarily becomes recorded in 19 the coverage. One native friend of mine ran away from 20 the camera afraid and mistrusting of the roving 21 apparatus. 22 564 This reality may be illustrative of a 23 small population of natives in that area, but should 24 not be determinative of all natives. The live show 25 from the downtown east side showed promise, but reeked StenoTran 139 1 of economic and cultural superiority as middle class 2 reporters and technicians roved the dirty streets on 3 the assumption they cared about social issues. 4 565 I suggest that, in reality, they are 5 making a mockery of these unfortunate people in the 6 east and the live show was seen as another case of 7 sensationalism limited and honesty and respect and over 8 indulging in its desire to extrapolate on the drug 9 problem. 10 566 Regarding the archaicness or 11 contemporariness of CBC programming we are in a period 12 of interrelations between analogue, digital and optical 13 reproductions and transmission of data through computer 14 generated imagery, global satellite positioning, 15 satellite telecommunication and existing technologies. 16 We are going beyond Walter Benjamin's theories of the 17 age of reproduction to the age of technological 18 authenticity. We are being reproduced in accordance to 19 the technology and more importantly to the demands of a 20 consumer culture. 21 567 We must not be caught up in the 22 quasi- scientific or technological wizardry of media 23 artists, television artists who use the latest 24 technology to twist the truth. 25 568 CBC's role as a public broadcaster StenoTran 140 1 must be watched closely so that there is no 2 interference from federal governmental bodies or 3 private interests wanting to propagate misinformation 4 for political economic gain. 5 569 For the next millennium CBC must be 6 aggressive in its acquisition of Canadian programming 7 and create subsidiary markets and mediums for the 8 interaction of media related platforms and technologies 9 from live web cam game shows to 3DTV, to prime time 10 television. 11 570 With the coming of high definition 12 television, CBC must develop beyond the populist 13 mentality of material cultural development and produce 14 programming which reflects the reality of our society. 15 571 We must clean house, throw out the 16 old and bring in new ideas, new visions, new management 17 and new producers. Land claims must be resolved openly 18 and honestly. CBC must provide unbiased coverage of 19 all these formal issues discussed before. 20 572 Public broadcasters must clearly 21 represent native historical relationships with the 22 Government of Canada. Failure to do this, CBC will be 23 responsible for not explaining the fiduciary duty that 24 is owed to the native people by the current government. 25 With uncertainty and lack of resolution on any of these StenoTran 141 1 issues, society in general will only remember the 2 negative aspects of the first people in our country. 3 573 I firmly believe this is something 4 that CBC does not want to carry over to the next 5 millennium. 6 574 How well CBC serves the regional and 7 national sections of Canada depends on affiliates' 8 appropriate windows, satellite fees, strength of 9 broadcasting signal and consumer technology. 10 575 Programming provided by CBC radio and 11 television should be totally re-evaluated in relation 12 to competition, channels are available during any given 13 time and be challenging to the influx of American 14 programs if Oprah is on one channel, what is our 15 Canadian equivalent? Will Canadians produce shows that 16 challenge the status quo of Canadianism and stand up 17 against American cultural Imperialism, a show that 18 captures the Canadian-American audiences and lures them 19 out of a moronic state? 20 576 Budget cuts do not help. We must 21 invest in a higher quality of programming. I emphasize 22 that CBC must continue to produce honest 23 straightforward journalism and cultural programming 24 without the hierarchy of Euro-centred validation and 25 present broadcasting which is based on honesty, StenoTran 142 1 humility and respect. 2 577 Canada's cultural apparatuses, 3 haunted by its Frasonian past tends to produce 4 programming which may be criticized as a regurgitation 5 of documentaries, news shorts and specific Canadian 6 tableau programming. 7 578 Yet CBC is a welcome view in relation 8 to the slick, classic and over dramatic caricatures of 9 American television. CBC programming may be seen as 10 dull and an old adage of BBC and the British empire and 11 a pale reflection of the Hollywood hallucination and 12 what is propagated through American media. 13 579 Yet current Canadian broadcasting 14 stations are pushed out of business by the marketing 15 giants of corporate media demigods, a minority group of 16 powerful forces who want to create a new world order. 17 We must put aside our egos, and selfish interests and 18 communicate who we are as one country. CBC must take 19 extreme risks to survive and compete in the next 20 millennium and be ready for constant change. 21 580 In closing, I acknowledge the CRTC's 22 mandate and hope that my comments both negative and 23 positive provide impetus for change. Change is a good 24 thing if needed but it must be properly focused to the 25 approach to the issues canvassed above. This brief was StenoTran 143 1 drawn up in consultation with Ronald Alexander Morin, 2 criminologist and UBC law graduate and dialogues with 3 associates of Manitou Creations Incorporated. 4 581 If there are further questions, 5 please contact me through e-mail or my website. 6 Meg'wich, all my relations. 7 --- Applause / Applaudissements 8 582 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 9 you, Mr. Morin, merci. 10 583 MS PINSKY: I will now call up the 11 next group of presenters. Those of you presently at 12 the table are welcome to stay, if you would like. 13 584 The first presenter will be madame 14 Martine Galibois-Barss. 15 PRÉSENTATION / PRESENTATION 16 585 MME GALIBOIS-BARSS: Bonjour et 17 bienvenue, Madame Bertrand, ainsi que certains membres 18 du Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des 19 télécommunications canadiennes. 20 586 Notre présentation devant vous 21 aujourd'hui dans le cadre d'audiences en vue du 22 renouvellement des licences d'exploitation de la 23 Société Radio-Canada s'appuie sur l'importance de cette 24 société de la Couronne, représente quant au 25 développement des communautés francophones et des StenoTran 144 1 jeunes francophones de l'Ouest canadien et des 2 Territoires. 3 587 Il est important de se rappeler le 4 rôle essentiel que Radio-Canada a joué tout au long de 5 son histoire dans l'Ouest. Dans le soutien au 6 développement des communautés francophones, que ce soit 7 en fournissant des services d'information, en 8 produisant des programmes culturels et en procurant aux 9 francophones de ces régions, un lieu d'expression et un 10 outil de rassemblement. 11 588 Un fait troublant dans l'histoire 12 récente des communautés, c'est que cette institution 13 nationale a subi des réductions budgétaires radicales, 14 proche de l'asphysie financière, alors que pendant que 15 cette même période, les communautés francophones 16 accueillaient des jugements historiques, y compris de 17 la Cour suprême du Canada, reconnaissant ces droits en 18 éducation dans la langue officielle minoritaire, ainsi 19 qu'une responsabilité collective au développement et à 20 l'épanouissement de la langue française, ici comme 21 ailleurs au Canada. 22 589 Si la Société compose avec les 23 réalités régionales et nationales de son mandat, la 24 révolution numérique à laquelle nous assistons l'amène 25 aussi à s'engager avec détermination dans le monde de StenoTran 145 1 l'internet où elle occupe déjà une place remarquable. 2 590 Elle est le premier réseau de radio 3 francophone au monde qui diffuse en continu sur 4 l'internet. Dans un monde ou les médias numériques 5 sont la voix du présent et de l'avenir, la Société 6 Radio-Canada dans l'Ouest entend ainsi élargir son 7 mandat et devenir un partenaire communautaire dans une 8 intervention dont bénéficieront écoles, étudiants, et 9 communautés francophones. 10 591 Faisant partie d'un bureau de 11 direction composé de membres qui ont participé à de 12 nombreuses batailles juridiques et politiques en 13 éducation, comme parents et comme membres de leur 14 communauté, vous comprendrez pourquoi Oniric se 15 retrouve dans la vision et le mandat élargi de 16 Radio-Canada dans nos régions. 17 592 Nous voulons en effet privilégier la 18 formation et l'éducation des jeunes de nos provinces et 19 territoires, particulièrement, dans le domaine des 20 nouveaux médias, en vue d'assurer une relève qui sera à 21 même d'intervenir en région, dans la préparation de 22 nouveaux contenus et la mise en place de technologie 23 répondant aux besoins de nos communautés. 24 593 Fournir aux jeunes entrepreneurs 25 francophones et francophiles de l'Ouest, des occasions StenoTran 146 1 de travailler et de se perfectionner en français en 2 nouveaux médias dans un environnement professionnel, 3 alors que les occasions d'emploi au sein des grandes 4 institutions d'État deviennent de plus en plus 5 limitées. 6 594 Ce sera aussi pour eux, l'occasion de 7 développer des produits dans les deux langues 8 officielles du pays, et ainsi de permettre aux 9 détenteur de droits d'auteur du domaine culturel de 10 diffuser ses oeuvres dans les nouveaux médias. 11 595 Monsieur Maurice Morin va continuer. 12 596 M. MORIN: Alors, comme Président de 13 notre organisme, je souhaite également me prononcer sur 14 une question faisant partie de vos préoccupations, à 15 savoir, notre vision de l'avenir de la Société 16 Radio-Canada au 21e siècle. Je dirais également que 17 c'est un point de vue qui est partager par les 18 professionnels qui travaillent avec nous via 19 l'organisme. 20 597 Pour l'Ouest canadien, certains 21 scénarios réalistes, puis possiblement pessimistes, 22 concernant l'avenir des services de la Société en 23 langues française et anglaise nous projettent tous dans 24 une nouvelle planète dans le prochain siècle. 25 598 Imaginons un citoyen qui se balade StenoTran 147 1 gentiment à Vancouver et écoute fidèlement sa radio 2 numérique des nouvelles, son animateur préféré ou les 3 affaires publiques d'une station située à Denver, 4 Colorado. 5 599 Un univers paradoxal au consommateur 6 numérique et maître et roi où le communicateur 7 professionnel canadien est davantage un mercenaire 8 virtuel qu'un artisan responsable de sa création, où le 9 français a sa place que si elle représente une valeur 10 rajoutée commerciale ou un nouveau produit dérivé pour 11 les grands réseaux de distribution. 12 600 Et bien, évidemment, ce qui reste de 13 Radio-Canada ou CBC se retrouve aux archives 14 nationales. Alors, votre question est particulièrement 15 intéressante parce qu'elle nous révèle une chose. Ce 16 jeu de prospective nous oblige à se faire une opinion 17 plus précise de ce que l'on pense du courage et de la 18 vision des responsables politiques, face à leur rôle à 19 l'égard de la souveraineté culturelle, par le biais des 20 médias de communication traditionnelle ou nouveaux 21 médias, publiques ou privés, au Canada. 22 601 On retrouve au coeur de cet 23 engagement politique du gouvernement et des 24 responsables, la place réelle qu'ils entendent accorder 25 à la création et à la promotion du contenu canadien. StenoTran 148 1 Et si cette idée semble faire souvent l'unanimité, il 2 faut en suivre les pistes autant dans les studios de 3 l'industrie culturelle que dans les antichambres 4 politiques. 5 602 Si le présent est garant de notre 6 avenir, dans les nouveaux médias comme dans 7 l'audiovisuel, les décisions politiques et financières 8 provoquent à mon avis, un phénomène désolant qui est en 9 train de saborder les démarches créatives des artisans 10 et miner l'avenir de la production culturelle 11 canadienne. 12 603 Pour tout vous dire, on participe à 13 l'imbécilisation du contenu canadien. Ou pour 14 reprendre une expression anglaise, 'The dumming down of 15 Canadian content'. C'est la pente glissante du 'fast 16 food' et du 'quick & dirty'. 17 604 Chose certaine, la quantité de 18 productions actuelles du secteur privé n'est pas 19 nécessairement un signe d'un nouveau bien-être de la 20 santé culturelle de notre pays. 21 605 La communication numérique offre des 22 possibilités formidables d'expression à la périphérie, 23 en particulier, aux régions, une occasion rêvée de 24 découvrir la richesse de notre patrimoine culturel 25 partout au pays. StenoTran 149 1 606 Des institutions publiques qui 2 portent depuis des décennies, un tradition culturelle 3 et créative unique, comme la Société Radio-Canada, 4 forge des nouvelles directions, alors qu'elle est 5 étranglée économiquement, et malgré tout, trouve le 6 moyen de donner au contenu canadien un nouveau souffle 7 créateur en région comme dans les grands centres. 8 607 Il est donc essentiel pour l'avenir 9 de Radio-Canada comme pour l'avenir culturel des 10 citoyens que le CRTC exerce son leadership dans 11 l'avenir, en particulier, des nouvelles technologies et 12 de la radio télédiffusion au Canada. 13 608 Que vous ne perdez pas de vue 14 l'influence que vous exercez dans notre quotidien, que 15 vos décisions affectent la distribution des ressources 16 et des nouveaux revenus en communication et en 17 télécommunications. 18 609 Puis on sait que le marché est 19 vraiment un marché grandissant, on voit ça, là, à tous 20 les jours quand on travaille dans le domaine, et puis, 21 qu'il y a sans doute énormément de groupes de pression, 22 ou plusieurs groupes de pression, du domaine des 23 télécommunications de la téléphonie, qui voient de 24 nouveaux secteurs s'ouvrir via les nouveaux médias, et 25 qui sont en train de solliciter ou présenter des StenoTran 150 1 arguments, mais qu'au bout du compte, vos décisions 2 auront des incidences directes sur les enjeux culturel 3 et politique, et notamment, sur la Société 4 Radio-Canada. 5 610 Alors, l'avenir d'une entreprise, si 6 on nous demande de vous présenter en une phrase notre 7 vision de l'avenir d'une entreprise, puisque nous... la 8 plupart de nos membres travaille dans le secteur privé, 9 l'avenir d'une entreprise au prochain siècle, qu'elle 10 soit publique ou privée, c'est-à-dire également 11 Radio-Canada, va tenir un enracinement dans le milieu, 12 et à la création de valeurs dans la société. 13 611 C'est ça qu'est la vision et 14 d'ailleurs, les entrepreneurs du 21e siècle seront 15 peut-être davantage philosophes motivateurs ou éditiens 16 que technocrates et managers. Et c'est vrai pour le 17 privé comme pour le public. 18 612 Alors c'est pourquoi cet enracinement 19 de Radio-Canada dans la communauté, et sa présence 20 continue et renforcée dans nos régions sont 21 indispensables si la Société veut baser son 22 intervention telle qu'elle se doit sur une connaissance 23 approfondie de la spécificité, des intérêts, des 24 aspirations des canadiens et des canadiennes, et 25 singulièrement, des francophones de l'Ouest. StenoTran 151 1 613 Comme dernière remarque personnelle, 2 je vous dirais que j'ai travaillé, à une occasion, à la 3 production d'un reportage menant de front production 4 francophone pour le réseau national et production 5 anglophone. Et je peux vous dire, quand il est arrivé 6 le moment de préparer le traitement... le traitement 7 qu'on faisait pour présenter notre histoire avec une 8 perspective franco-canadienne, elle était complètement 9 différente de celle qu'on présentait pour les anglos ou 10 pour la population anglo-canadienne. 11 614 Et c'est une partie des difficultés 12 de pouvoir produire dans les deux langues. Mais je 13 crois qu'à travers, même histoire, un traitement 14 différent, il est possible de présenter une perspective 15 qui reflète un contenu canadien. 16 615 Alors, nous appuyons donc, pour 17 toutes ces raisons, le renouvellement de la licence de 18 la Société Radio-Canada dans les régions de l'Ouest 19 canadien, dans chacune des régions, et souhaitons 20 particulièrement une poussée, un développement, vers le 21 nord des Territoires, ce qui n'existe pas en français, 22 comme vous le savez. 23 616 Alors, nous vous remercions également 24 de nous donner l'occasion de présenter notre conclu. 25 617 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci infiniment. StenoTran 152 1 618 Pouvez-vous m'expliquer, pour le 2 dossier public aussi, quel est le mouvement que vous 3 représentez, parce que je pensais au début que c'était 4 une compagnie, mais je crois comprendre que c'est 5 davantage un regroupement. 6 619 M. MORIN: Bien, je crois... je pense 7 que je dois vous dire, on fait partie vraiment d'une 8 nouvelle culture; Oniric est un organisme à but non 9 lucratif avec une Charte fédérale, mais de fait aussi, 10 c'est un... c'est un modèle d'affaires pour reprendre 11 un terme, un modèle d'affaires qui permet le réseautage 12 de tout un ensemble de petites et moyennes entreprises 13 qui travaillent dans le domaine des communications. 14 620 Alors, comme vous avez sûrement eu 15 l'occasion de le constater, créer un bon produit 16 demande plusieurs artisans. Le fait de pouvoir les 17 réunir, de réunir d'une façon virtuelle une équipe qui 18 va créer un produit de qualité, sans créer une nouvelle 19 entreprise ou créer une entreprise, c'est ce que se 20 donne comme mandat ou c'est une des activités de... 21 principales d'Oniric, et elle le fait à l'échelle de 22 l'Ouest. 23 621 Alors, des productions que vous aurez 24 l'occasion de voir dans le domaine de l'éducation, de 25 la formation, des communications de langue française StenoTran 153 1 que vous retrouverez sur l'internet, c'est ce qui va se 2 faire en français, en tout cas, à travers des 3 initiatives d'Oniric, se fera virtuellement et par du 4 travail collaboratif à distance. 5 622 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Oui, Madame, vous 6 voulez... 7 623 MME GALIBOIS-BARSS: Oui, j'aimerais 8 simplement additionner, comme vous le savez, en tant 9 que francophone dans l'Ouest canadien, le vrai 10 momentum, c'est le partenariat. Et le partenariat dans 11 tous les niveaux, tant au niveau des communications, de 12 la production, ainsi qu'au niveau de l'éducation pour 13 les jeunes qui sont dans le système scolaire. 14 624 Et pour nous, Radio-Canada a déjà un 15 pied... est une institution dans chacune de ces 16 provinces et territoires, et se doit dans le futur, de 17 continuer à jouer un rôle mais de partenaire des plus 18 actif maintenant que nous avons un système scolaire qui 19 se met sur pied et d'être un modèle et un formateur au 20 participés. 21 625 Donc, c'est un partenaire primordial 22 en tant qu'institution qui est nouveau peut-être, 23 n'avait pas à jouer ce rôle de partenaire complet avec 24 les communautés, et pour nous, c'est très, très, 25 important que ça se joue dans chacune des régions et StenoTran 154 1 des territoires. 2 626 Et c'est cette alliance-là qu'Oniric 3 fait dans les multimédias. 4 627 M. MORIN: Et en fait de résultat ce 5 qu'on voit, c'est que, évidemment, lorsque des 6 francophones de l'Ouest, qu'ils soient dans les écoles 7 francophones ou d'immersion, voulaient avoir accès à un 8 contenu qui les reflète, dans l'édition traditionnel, 9 ce n'était pas possible. Le marché n'y était pas. 10 628 Maintenant, avec l'arrivée de 11 l'édition électronique, on peut tout d'un coup, mettre 12 toute une production, un patrimoine culturel 13 francophone accessible à des élèves qui sont de 14 l'Ouest, mais également, du Québec ou de la 15 francophonie. 16 629 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Et une dernière 17 question, pour bien comprendre votre intervention. 18 630 Vous faîtes votre intervention à 19 partir des licences existantes de Radio-Canada et vous 20 parlez... donc, de prolonger l'action par les set web, 21 etc. et non pas d'entreprendre de nouvelles activités. 22 C'est bien ce que je comprends. 23 631 M. MORIN: Bien, tel que nous le 24 comprenons, il y a une volonté... une volonté d'élargir 25 les activités de Radio-Canada dans le domaine des StenoTran 155 1 nouveaux médias. Nous appuyons cette initiative. 2 632 LA PRÉSIDENTE: D'accord. Merci 3 beaucoup. 4 633 MS PINSKY: Mr. Colin Miles is the 5 next presenter. 6 634 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 7 afternoon, sir. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 635 MR. MILES: I am the regional 10 director of the Canadian Music Centre, in British 11 Columbia. The Canadian Music Centre is an independent 12 non-profit agency which promotes and disseminates 13 Canadian music created by Canadian composers in the 14 concert music field. 15 636 The organization is the largest and 16 leading organization of its kind in the world. 17 Canada's composers are creating an important part of 18 Canada's cultural heritage. I want therefore to speak 19 specifically about CBC radio composers in Canadian 20 contemporary music. 21 637 The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 22 is a multifaceted corporation which touches all parts 23 of our lives. It is not simply a broadcaster of news 24 and current events. 25 638 The CBC is sometimes criticized for StenoTran 156 1 its involvement in the arts, as if the arts were some 2 marginal activity compared, for example, with sports. 3 I would like to draw your attention to figures from 4 StatsCan for the year 1992. That year 42 per cent of 5 Canadians attended at least one play or concert while 6 31 per cent attended a professional sports event. 7 Clearly, the arts are important to the majority of 8 Canadians and they value the CBC's involvement in the 9 arts. 10 639 Private broadcasting as far as 11 Canadian contemporary music is concerned is a waste 12 land with the exceptions of CJRT in Toronto and CKOA in 13 Edmonton. Private stations ignore the wealth of music 14 composed by Canada's composers of concert music. It is 15 important to distinguish between commercial 16 broadcasting and public broadcasting. The function of 17 commercial broadcasting, simply put, is to deliver 18 listeners or viewers to advertisers. 19 640 Public broadcasting serves the public 20 good. It can be what we imagine it to be and the CBC 21 and Canadians have been working since the 1930s to 22 imagine, create and develop public broadcasting to 23 represent the highest aspirations of civilization. 24 641 It has been said we write our 25 destiny, what we do is what we become. One of the StenoTran 157 1 things we do in Canada is the CBC. It is what we do. 2 It is an important part of living in this place and how 3 we do it is an example to people all over the world. 4 This is as true in this millennium as in the next. 5 642 The CBC is a good thing, which is 6 blindingly obvious to so many people of goodwill as it 7 is ours and we want it strengthened. In recent years, 8 the CBC has been starved for funds and then belittled 9 for what it is unable to accomplish and for what it 10 does accomplish in spite of the savage cuts. 11 643 I can see with what dedication, hard 12 work and courage CBC personnel are making miracles 13 happen every day. You should know, for example, that 14 the concert music division of Radio France has a budget 15 six times that of CBC radio's and they cannot imagine 16 how CBC radio concert music accomplishes so much with 17 so little. 18 644 When the British composer Gavin 19 Bryers was in Vancouver for the first Vancouver New 20 Music Festival which took place in CBC studios and 21 featured the CBC Vancouver Orchestra playing his music, 22 he publicly commented about the professionalism of the 23 CBC recording staff. In fact he said, "They could 24 teach the BBC a thing or two." 25 645 Look at CBC Vancouver orchestra. StenoTran 158 1 Comparable orchestras elsewhere in Canada would require 2 an administration of four or five people. Managing 3 this orchestra is, in fact, one full-time equivalent 4 position. The producer even puts out the chairs and 5 stands. 6 646 I am reminded of a study done in 7 Florida on poverty, its effects and root causes. It 8 was a multi- million dollar study, which is sort of 9 ironic. At its conclusion, the Florida study 10 determined that the ill effects of poverty can be 11 attributed to a lack of money. And with CBC radio its 12 few shortcomings can be attributed to a lack of money, 13 to impoverishment, which is an expression of a lack of 14 love and faith and trust on the part of our 15 legislators, bureaucrats a lack of faith in public 16 broadcasting, a lack of faith in the citizenry and the 17 public good. 18 647 Let us look at composers of concert 19 music in Canada and the CBC. The CBC is more than a 20 presenter of ready-made cultural products. It is a 21 patron of the arts and artists, seeking out and 22 identifying young talent, for example, through the CBC 23 young composers competition, showing faith in young 24 composers by commissioning and giving performances of 25 their works not only in live concerts but also over the StenoTran 159 1 airwaves in Canada and abroad. 2 648 CBC radio is the main part of the 3 infrastructure which inspires young people to be 4 composers and it is essential for them if they are to 5 pursue their vocation here in Canada. It is equally 6 true for composers in mid-career. I have talked to 7 hundreds of composers and they affirm the 8 interdependence of musical life in Canada with the CBC. 9 649 The CBC commissions composers to 10 create new works. I emphasize "commissions" because 11 this is by far the most important part of income for 12 composers. Performing rights fees, for example, for 13 performers of concerts have fallen by about 90 per cent 14 in the past few years and are only a fraction of 15 European rates. In fact, Canadian performing rights 16 fees are about 4 per cent of the rates in Sweden, to 17 use the most extreme example. 18 650 When John Oliver's 11-minute work 19 "Unseen Rain", which CBC had commissioned was performed 20 by Judith Forest and the CBC orchestra in the Orpheum, 21 the composer received performing rights fees of $53. 22 These ludicrously low fees underline how important 23 commissions are to the livelihood of composers. 24 Without agencies such as the CBC and the Canada Council 25 for the Arts, composers would give up or move out. And StenoTran 160 1 could you imagine Glenn Gould without the CBC? 2 651 I want to draw your attention to one 3 of the greatest champions of contemporary music, North 4 America's last surviving radio orchestra, the CBC Radio 5 Orchestra. I asked CBC producers to do this research 6 for me and they kindly acceded to my request. 7 652 The CBC Vancouver orchestra has 8 broadcast 44 performers of Canadian work since 1962. 9 That is one work in four of each of its programs. In 10 that period, it performed 318 works by 120 composers. 11 18 per cent of the composers features are from British 12 Columbia and 25 per cent of the works are by British 13 Columbia composers. Many of the works were 14 commissioned and premiered by the CBC. I think this is 15 a good balance between a regional and national reality. 16 653 I did a little study myself of 17 Canadian orchestral repertoire on the CBC. The 18 Canadian Music Centre is the nation's largest 19 distributor of specialized repertoire and nearly all 20 the examples of Canadian music are in the catalogue 21 including 140 titles from CBC records. So I analyzed 22 the catalogue of commercially available records of 23 Canadian orchestral repertoire available from the 24 Vancouver office of the Canadian Music Centre. I found 25 the CBC Vancouver orchestra had performed much more StenoTran 161 1 Canadian repertoire than any other orchestra. In fact, 2 it recorded 44 works by 29 composers on 16 CDs. That 3 adds up to more than eight hours. The Montreal and 4 Vancouver Symphony together do not make up one hour of 5 recorded Canadian repertoire. Clearly this radio 6 orchestra plays a leadership role in the nation. 7 654 I mentioned the hundreds of CBC CDs 8 currently available. The CBC has also been a partner 9 with the Canadian Music Centre in producing 62 CDs on 10 the Centre Disk label, a label which, like the CBC 11 label, is a label exclusively devoted to music by 12 Canadian composers and this label, like the CBC label, 13 is much admired nationally and internationally. 14 655 CBC programming represents the range 15 of Canadian musical activity from music which looks 16 back to the 19th century to music of the avant garde 17 extending the boundaries of the art form. Music which 18 is readily accessible and music which challenges 19 seasoned listeners of the CBC and CBC radio in 20 particular plays a leadership roll in encouraging 21 orchestras, choirs, chamber ensembles and recitalists 22 to pay attention to creators. 23 656 The CBC is always building bridges 24 between composers, performers and listeners. Through 25 access to broadcasts of John Kamara Parker, CBC Choral StenoTran 162 1 Competition, the CBC Young Performers Competition, the 2 final of the Winnipeg New Music Festival we share in 3 the triumphs of these artists and we have a sense of 4 ownership. 5 657 When the leading Canadian composer 6 Harry Sommers died a week ago, at least five different 7 programs on Radio One and Two paid tribute to him. 8 Through CBC radio, we have been united from sea to sea 9 to sea as we mourn his death. 10 658 I have been speaking about the CBC as 11 a patron of the Canadian music artists, an organization 12 which discerns excellence, which takes risks and 13 commissions artists, gives composers the wherewithal to 14 support their creative efforts which can then be shared 15 by the nation. This is what the CBC itself needs, a 16 good patron. 17 659 A government which will commission 18 the CBC to do its job and give it the tools to get on 19 with it. 20 660 We frankly have worries that no 21 matter what is said in support of the CBC at these 22 hearings, the fate of the CBC is in the hands of some 23 people who are prepared to do to the CBC what was done 24 to the CNR. This is particularly true in these times 25 when we have political leaders of the federal and StenoTran 163 1 provincial leaders who are anti-art, who suffer from 2 historical amnesia and who are bamboozled by the 3 cynical rhetoric of greedy commercial interests. 4 661 I want to finish with a story from 5 Buddha. Buddha was once threatened with death by a 6 bandit. He asked if the bandit would be good enough to 7 fullfil his dying wish said and cut off the branch of 8 that tree. One slash of the sword and it was done. 9 "What now?" asked the bandit. "Put it back again," 10 said Buddha. "You must be crazy to think that anyone 11 can do that." "On the contrary, it is you who are 12 crazy to think that you are mighty because you can 13 wound and destroy; that is the task of children. The 14 mighty know how to create and heal." 15 662 I urge the CRTC bureaucrats and 16 parliamentarians to use their might to create and heal 17 the CBC. 18 663 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 19 you, Mr. Miles. 20 664 MS PINSKY: Mr. Phillip Keatley. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 665 MR. KEATLEY: Yes, thank you. I am a 23 creature of the CBC. I spent 30 years in the 24 corporation and mainly as a drama producer. I 25 worked -- I have to tell you these things because it is StenoTran 164 1 my perspective on the one point that I am going to try 2 to make about regionalism later. 3 666 I helped found the drama department 4 and in television here, the first one in English 5 outside of Toronto. Later, I was head of national 6 production, training people like producers and 7 directors and news readers in various ways in Toronto. 8 And the last six years that I spent at the CBC was as 9 the western head of development of ideas mainly, again, 10 in drama from Winnipeg west to here. 11 667 In 1990, the cuts at the CBC had 12 begun in earnest. They had begun going on already for 13 about five or six years but in earnest they really were 14 striking home and I decided if I was going to work in 15 Canadian television production I had to leave the 16 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. 17 668 At that point, I founded a small film 18 company here and became an independent producer with my 19 daughter as my partner. And she has now taken the 20 company over and we are doing a series, another cop 21 show called "The Cold Squad", not for the CBC, but for 22 CTV at this point. 23 669 I have seen it as a result from both 24 sides as to how the production community in Canada 25 works in the financing side and the production side, StenoTran 165 1 the politics of it, the mumbo jumbo of it. But I think 2 that the CBC truly is at a cross roads this time. 3 670 I do not believe that there are outs 4 as far as major production is concerned. I think that 5 CBC is being driven out of all kinds of production and 6 will simply be a carrier in one form or another unless 7 a new decision is made about what we as a people want 8 of this corporation. 9 671 The question that I wanted to speak 10 to today is really about how well does CBC serve the 11 public on a regional as well as on a national level. 12 672 I do not think there is any 13 difference between them and I think one of the great 14 mistakes is to think about it as national and regional. 15 It is central and regional is our problem. There are 16 two forces in broadcasting as in many other things in 17 our cultural life in Canada. They naturally drive 18 toward the centre, the centre of excellence, the centre 19 of contact, the centre of money, the centre of various 20 things that one needs whether one is in the arts or 21 manufacturing or whatever. 22 673 And that centralization is enormous 23 when we are in a huge country with a small population 24 and under the forces of globalization. But, 25 unfortunately, unlike a lot of other things in the StenoTran 166 1 arts, and I include the art of broadcasting whether a 2 newscaster or an actor or a writer or a musician, 3 unfortunately when you come to the arts, it depends on 4 the local, it depends on the regional, it depends on 5 the perverse, totally personal things that make one 6 person have an insight that is worth recording and 7 reporting to someone else or most of all for me, the 8 yarns, the stories that without answering the questions 9 that a lot of newscasts try to answer ask questions 10 that are not answerable in that form and make us 11 consider ourselves in a larger sense. 12 674 I believe that is where we are going 13 to lose if we look at television as simply an 14 entertainment that can be allowed to go on to the 15 multiple channel universe and think that if we preserve 16 CBC radio we will have somehow saved the day. We will 17 not. Television is unfortunately still an activity 18 that more children watch than watch the school teacher 19 in school. It has an enormous influence and will 20 continue to have. And if we do not use it, someone 21 else is going to. 22 675 What is happening in Canada right now 23 is that there is another force that is really moving 24 against the CBC in a very specific way. It is not a 25 force of evil at all, it is just a different force. It StenoTran 167 1 is the fact that in trying to find a different way that 2 could break some of the gridlock of the CBC 10 or 15 3 years ago, CRTC and Telefilm Canada and various other 4 organizations said let us try and give the control to 5 not just the hierarchy, let us take an independent 6 producer with an idea, a creator who will work on the 7 idea side, let us take a broadcaster who has to accept 8 that idea and put the forces of production and money 9 behind it, which was the CBC or CTV or whoever else it 10 might be, and let us take public money from places like 11 Telefilm and put it into, lever it into existence so 12 that we will have control in three directions but we 13 will have nobody who grinds it into the mud. 14 676 And in order to make that happen, the 15 new organizations encouraged with money and time and 16 lots of other things, the coming into existence of some 17 production companies and the first wave of those 18 production companies have been very successful. 19 677 Oh, there has been lots of drop outs, 20 but when you look at Alliance Atlantis, when you -- 21 well, they are the biggest one at the present time. 22 678 When you look at companies like that 23 that have existed only for 15 years or slightly more, 24 we see companies that are now on the public markets, 25 publicly financed, that is fanned from the stock StenoTran 168 1 markets and we see them now becoming responsible to 2 their shareholders and responsible to the balance sheet 3 for what they will move on to next. And in that we are 4 also seeing that they naturally have both 5 responsibilities and loyalties outside of the Canadian 6 audience that they were created to serve. 7 679 Because, in globalization, those 8 companies have to try to find the sale to the United 9 States, to Britain, to south-east Asia, to wherever 10 else they can. Believe me, as a producer of a thing 11 called "The Cold Squad", we have done a lot of work on 12 trying to find the ways that we can keep it Canadian 13 and still sell it in Hong Kong. 14 680 Now, at a certain point, you look at 15 that and you say, "I think about between 60 and maybe 16 75 per cent of the money here is Canadian public 17 money." But it is no longer being controlled by the 18 Canadian public. It is, in fact, going to make 19 programs that will move us into the globalization world 20 and quite rightly so. This program is a successful 21 application of marketplace economics. And it is given 22 a lot work to artists of all kinds and it has created 23 in Vancouver, for instance, a community of film crews 24 and the ancillary things of post-production and so on 25 that build around the film business. It has meant that StenoTran 169 1 the Americans have come to our doors in great numbers. 2 By the way, we are also giving the Americans a little 3 pat on the taxes so they are in for, what is it, 11 per 4 cent of their budgets that they can save by doing it in 5 Canada. So we are in the global market. 6 681 Now, we have set up that hierarchy 7 and now I think it is time to make the choice again. 8 CBC has been swung back and forth between regionalism 9 and centralism, nationalism, and the individual voice 10 of the artist for all of the years, it is now over 40 11 that I have been around, in the business and it is not 12 going to change. There will be meetings like this in 13 five years and ten. We hope there will be. It is time 14 to swing back. 15 682 There is only one way that you can 16 re-establish the CBC as an energetic, ongoing 17 organization that will be concerned about with the 18 arts, with the news, with its feet in the ground where 19 it belongs and that is you have to have a regional 20 structure. 21 683 When I started at the CBC in 1956, 22 God help me, there was a totally regional structure 23 under a national umbrella. There were individual 24 budgets that were controlled within each region. The 25 decisions were made by a kind of poker game as to who StenoTran 170 1 had the most money and who had the most air time and 2 who could make the programs for each other. That 3 disappeared as the crunch, the first crunch came in 4 1968, I remember. As the crunch happened that the 5 money was no longer enough and it has continued and 6 continued and continued. 7 684 And when I hear people around the 8 table talking today about, you know, is this the last 9 crunch, yes, it is. I do not think there is the money 10 there to do the programs except by hiring on all -- now 11 I am only talking about television -- by hiring on all 12 of those new production companies that were formed 15 13 years ago and having them be co-producers with the CBC 14 of all of those programs that up until now have been 15 its own. 16 685 And I do not think I want that. I 17 mean I -- I just do not want to see that. I want to go 18 back to the regionalism thing that I believe is the way 19 that Canada works. We are not a centralized state in 20 the way that the industry and in the United States 21 prides itself on not needing any kind of so called 22 public support for broadcasting and industry that can 23 stand on its own two feet. We are not an industry. We 24 happen to look like one, there is lots of money made in 25 it, but we are the root and branch of Canadian culture. StenoTran 171 1 And we are not going to get the money to support that 2 tree by advertising or by any of the other gimmickery 3 that we have been trying in the last few years. 4 686 I never thought I would be one of the 5 people who believed this, but in the last five years I 6 have come to the conclusion that CBC should be taken 7 out of commercials totally. If CBC drama dies as a 8 result, so be it, it is going to look better dead than 9 alive. If it means that television is going to find 10 new ways to tell stories, then so be it. That will be 11 better for us. 12 687 I do not think that we can go on as a 13 supposed national organization that does not exist 14 nationally except in one or two major centres. 15 688 How can it work? There is one region 16 in Canada that managed to survive as an autonomus 17 region under national control. It is the French 18 language service, the radio Canada in Quebec where 19 those are still basically the rules. I am only talking 20 about Quebec, I am not talking about the network, I am 21 talking about the region. And the strength of that 22 organization there, its contact with its own audience, 23 its contact for its reason for being is a wonder to 24 behold when you come from other parts of Canada. The 25 great shame is that I have not heard a French story on StenoTran 172 1 English television for a long time, but that is part of 2 our two solitudes rather than part of this business of 3 regionalism versus nationalism. 4 689 So give me back my regions, let me 5 tell the stories from here, let me go and gather the 6 stories from other places and see that they get on the 7 air. And give us the money as if I still belonged to 8 the CBC, but I said I am a creature of it. 9 690 Give it the money in the same way 10 that we give money to health, in the same way that we 11 give money to education. And any other national 12 institution that guarantees that this is going to 13 continue to be a country. Because in the world of 14 globalization when children are going to continue to 15 watch television more than go to school, you better 16 believe that this is the thing that counts. Thank you. 17 691 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 18 you very much, Mr. Keatley. I would propose we take a 19 coffee break and we will be back in ten minutes. 20 --- Recess at 1500 / Suspension à 1500 21 --- Upon resuming at 1520 / Reprise à 1520 22 692 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: We 23 will now pursue the consultation and I would ask Ms 24 Pinsky to call the next intervenor, please. 25 693 MS PINSKY: Mr. Baxter is the next StenoTran 173 1 presenter. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 694 MR. BAXTER: Good afternoon, ladies 4 and gentlemen. I have heard a lot of people speak for 5 and against the CBC and they have been quite eloquent. 6 They have really addressed their concerns and quite 7 passionately so. And that is one of the reasons it 8 prompts me to come all the way from the Hope area. I 9 am going to shoot from the hip, no text. I think 10 common sense should prevail here. 11 695 I think CBC has all the right reasons 12 or some of the right reasons, I should say, for being 13 in the air. I think it is something we need and it is 14 important but like anything else when it is out of 15 control, just as another gentleman said today, it is 16 going to do more harm than good unless it is in 17 control, unless it is helping people. I recently ran 18 into a situation with the CBC where I found 19 accountability to be a problem. 20 696 Accountability to me is being able to 21 face someone and account to them why you have done 22 something or why something has happened or why you have 23 taken a stand or something. And the way I see it, 24 things should be pretty straightforward. 25 697 I have asked the CBC, French in StenoTran 174 1 particular, but we have asked the CBC to respond to a 2 couple of issues that we felt were important and at no 3 time, and I hope this is on record to the max did the 4 CBC ever try to contact us and give us any input. We 5 have tried on several levels, you know, the e-mail, the 6 phone, the fax, we have tried personal contact. 7 Frankly, I have been avoided, I have been dodged. You 8 know, I am not a bad guy, I am a real nice guy until 9 you tick me off and right now CBC has me a little 10 irritated. It comes down to accountability. 11 698 When I run a business I have an 12 employee that does not function for me, I let them go. 13 699 When I am disappointed with 14 something, I give someone few chances because it is 15 important, sometimes you do not see their finest 16 qualities until they are under pressure or until they 17 have had a chance to get to know what they are to go. 18 700 I think CBC has had a lot of chances, 19 a lot of chances. I will say it again, I think CBC is 20 important. But if CBC does not smarten up, the CBC 21 should let go. It is going to do more damage 22 floundering than it is if it has just gone away. Third 23 time, I do not want it to go away, but I do not want it 24 out of control and it is out of control. 25 701 I am one simple individual taxpayer StenoTran 175 1 who has tried to make some phone calls, who has tried 2 to do some faxes, who has tried to do some e-mails and 3 more than made my effort as far as a commitment to be 4 in touch with the CBC and try to understand their point 5 of view. When there is no dialogue, when you are not 6 listening to me and my taxes with paying what you are 7 doing, you are history. 8 702 There were five children that were 9 basically defamed. They gave their best in a situation 10 that the CBC wanted their interview for, and they gave 11 their best. Their academic skills speak for 12 themselves, academic skills that are assigned by B.C. 13 and they have exceeded but none of these skills were 14 recognized. These children were given an interview and 15 they sat back as though their interview went to 16 production. They watched it in horror when they 17 realized that they had been scammed. 18 703 I have asked the CBC to look into 19 this and nobody is returning the phone calls. That has 20 got to tell you something, that has got to red flag 21 something. Even if I had only called once instead of 22 e-mails and faxes and calls, even if it had just been a 23 voice mail, someone should at least be in control of 24 their office at least to be able to return it and find 25 out what is going on. StenoTran 176 1 704 This immunity that some production 2 staff within CBC seem to have, has gone too far, it is 3 enough. Forget the national perspective, forget the 4 regional perspective. You know, I am not talking about 5 cultural diversification, I am talking about 6 accountability. When you do not spend my money right, 7 I fire you. When you do not produce or I should say 8 when you are not concise, then I reprimand you, but if 9 you are concise forever, I get rid of you. 10 705 I would not be this irritated if I 11 had not seen it a few times. We have heard people 12 today, same thing, they are talking about different 13 areas of accountability. So I think it is important. 14 Everyone realizes, you know, I am asking for the CBC to 15 look into this, I am hoping, like I say, public record 16 to look into this. 17 706 They owe five children an apology. 18 They just got a real heck of a lesson in biased 19 journalism in their front yard and I am not impressed. 20 I appreciate your time and I thank you for listening. 21 707 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 22 you. 23 708 MS PINSKY: La prochaine intervenante 24 est madame Diane Côté. 25 709 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Bonjour, madame Côté. StenoTran 177 1 PRÉSENTATION / PRESENTATION 2 710 MME CÈTÉ: Pardon. 3 711 Alors, je suis la présidente de la 4 Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. 5 La Fédération est le porte-parole de la troisième plus 6 grande communauté francophone hors-Québec, après 7 l'Ontario et le Nouveau-Brunswick. 8 712 La Fédération... 9 713 LA PRÉSIDENTE: J'aurais pensé que 10 c'était le Manitoba. 11 714 MME CÈTÉ: Oui, je vous apprends une 12 nouvelle? 13 715 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Oui, c'est ça. 14 --- Laughter / Rires 15 716 MME CÈTÉ: Alors, la Fédération 16 regroupe trente-trois associations réparties sur 17 l'ensemble du territoire de la Province et oeuvrant 18 dans plusieurs domaines du développement de la 19 communauté francophone, comme, par exemple, 20 l'éducation, l'économie, la culture, les services 21 sociaux et les communications. Elle a été fondée en 22 1945 et a fêté en 1995, son cinquantième anniversaire 23 d'existence. 24 717 Notre présence ici aujourd'hui dans 25 le cadre des présentes consultations publiques StenoTran 178 1 s'inscrit à l'intérieur du mandat de notre fédération. 2 Celui-ci consiste à promouvoir, représenter et défendre 3 les intérêts des francophones de la 4 Colombie-Britannique, et à protéger leur patrimoine 5 linguistique et culturel. 6 718 Alors, en guise d'introduction, 7 permettez-moi de rappeler que la communauté francophone 8 d'ici consiste en quelque 61 000 personnes dont le 9 français est la langue maternelle. 10 719 Notre communauté a ceci de 11 particulier, par contre. Elle n'est pas concentrée 12 géographiquement dans une région donnée, comme c'est le 13 cas dans d'autres provinces. Mais elle est présente 14 sur l'ensemble du territoire provincial. Et elle est 15 plutôt regroupée en un ensemble de petites 16 collectivités locales. 17 720 Cette dispersion géographique impose 18 un défi particulier à Radio-Canada. Dans l'exercice, 19 en Colombie-Britannique, d'un aspect important de sa 20 mission qui consiste à représenter la diversité 21 régionale et culturelle du Canada, et à présenter 22 chaque région à elle-même ainsi qu'au reste du pays. 23 721 Pour les nombreuses petites 24 collectivités francophones de la Province, Radio-Canada 25 représente un lien vital, parfois le seul lien qui soit StenoTran 179 1 en mesure de les relier entre elles. 2 722 Alors, de quelle façon la SRC 3 dessert-elle la communauté francophone de la 4 Colombie-Britannique ? Les francophones d'ici ont-ils 5 un accès à une radio et à une télévision d'envergure 6 nationale qui reflète adéquatement la réalité à 7 l'échelle locale? 8 723 Nous allons répondre à cette question 9 en deux temps. Nous soulèverons d'abord les problèmes 10 d'accès au service de la SRC, puis nous exposerons les 11 bénéfices limités pour la communauté francophone de la 12 Colombie-Britannique de certains choix de 13 programmation. 14 724 Alors, le problème d'accès au signal 15 de la radio et de la télévision de Radio-Canada, c'est 16 un secret de polichinelle, en Colombie-Britannique, 17 tous les résidents n'ont pas accès au signal radio et 18 télé de la SRC. Plus de vingt ans après l'entrée en 19 onde de la télévision francophone dans cette province, 20 une trentaine de localités de la province n'ont 21 toujours pas accès à la télévision et à la radio de la 22 SRC. 23 725 Nous venons d'apprendre que la SRC, 24 par contre, compte installer un emetteur à Victoria, ce 25 qui devrait améliorer les conditions de réception sur StenoTran 180 1 l'île de Vancouver, à l'été 2 000. Cependant, rien ne 2 laisse entrevoir une amélioration pour le reste du 3 territoire de la province où le signal radio et télé 4 n'est toujours pas accessible. 5 726 En d'autres termes, une partie 6 importante du territoire où vivent les francophones 7 dont d'ailleurs le nombre est assez élevé pour 8 permettre le regroupement en association, et la 9 création d'écoles de langue française, est carrément 10 exclu de la diffusion de la radio et de la télévision 11 de la SRC, et elle le demeurera. 12 727 Plusieurs usagés qui n'ont pas accès 13 au signal de la télévision choisissent de payer un 14 service privé et doivent verser des frais d'abonnement 15 à un cablo. Ils reçoivent alors le signal de la SRC en 16 direct de Montréal. Par contre, ça donne lieu à des 17 situations déplorables, comme la diffusion d'émissions 18 pour enfants pendant les heures de classe, ou encore la 19 diffusion d'émissions de fin de soirée aux heures de 20 grande écoute. 21 728 Les nombreuses localités qui sont 22 privées des services publics de la SRC, il faut le 23 rappeler, contribuent elles aussi aux fonds publics qui 24 financent la Société. 25 729 En définitive, au plan de la StenoTran 181 1 diffusion de ses émissions de radio et de télévision, 2 la SRC ne dessert pas adéquatement l'ensemble de la 3 clientèle de la Province. Plus spécifiquement, elle 4 n'assure pas comme elle le devrait le lien vital entre 5 les communautés francophones, puisqu'elle n'est pas 6 présente sur l'ensemble du territoire. 7 730 Cette lacune importante contribue à 8 l'isolement des collectivités francophones au plan 9 linguistique, culturel et politique, et les privent 10 d'un outil essentiel au développement de leur sens 11 d'identité et à leur épanouissement à l'intérieur de 12 cette province. 13 731 Par conséquent, la Fédération 14 recommande que la SRC s'acquitte de ses 15 responsabilités, et installe les outils technologiques 16 nécessaires à une diffusion des signaux de la radio et 17 de la télévision sur la totalité du territoire de la 18 province de la Colombie-Britannique. 19 732 Deuxième question, le choix de 20 programmation. La communauté francophone est 21 relativement choyée en terme de couverture de la vie 22 culturelle en Colombie-Britannique. Cette dernière 23 occupe une bonne place dans la programmation du "Ce 24 soir" en Colombie-Britannique. 25 733 De plus, l'excellente production StenoTran 182 1 "Courant du Pacifique", diffusé par CBUFT les 2 dimanches, et repris en lundi... le lundi, dédie chaque 3 année cinquante-deux émissions d'une demi-heure à la 4 vie culturelle de la Province. Elle s'est d'ailleurs 5 méritée, en 1997, le prix 'Rodgers Communications', 6 pour la couverture des arts. 7 734 La communauté francophone, 8 c'est-à-dire celle qui a accès au signal, bénéficie 9 également d'une bonne couverture en français des 10 nouvelles internationales, nationales et provinciales, 11 grâce notamment, à la production locale du "Ce soir" en 12 Colombie-Britannique, à l'intérieur d'un réseau 13 d'envergure nationale. 14 735 Les activités de la communauté 15 francophone sont, de plus, diffusées adéquatement, 16 grâce notamment, à la production de radio de "Micro 17 midi", qui informe sur les événements organisés par les 18 associations francophones régionales et provinciales, 19 ainsi qu'à la production locale de "CBUF, Bonjour" et 20 au carnet des activités communautaires, "Le lien". 21 736 Peut-on pour autant affirmer que les 22 francophones d'ici ont un accès à une radio et à une 23 télévision qui reflètent adéquatement la réalité à 24 l'échelle locale. 25 737 En Colombie-Britannique, la StenoTran 183 1 couverture journalistique des événements nationaux et 2 provinciaux qui ont des répercussions politiques ou 3 sociales pour la communauté francophone est en 4 concurrence directe avec la couverture journalistique 5 d'autres événements locaux. 6 738 En d'autres termes, il semble que 7 l'on ne se soit pas donné pour mission de connaître et 8 de faire connaître les répercussions pour les 9 francophones de la Province, qui sont, rappelons-le, le 10 public cible de la SRC, des événements nationaux et 11 provinciaux qui les affectent directement au niveau 12 politique et social. 13 739 À l'occasion, on présente le point de 14 vue de la communauté francophone, à l'intérieur d'un 15 reportage au bulletin de nouvelles, mais on présente 16 rarement un reportage ou une entrevue de fond qui 17 permette de vraiment saisir les enjeux pour la 18 communauté francophone, d'une décision majeure au 19 niveau national ou provincial. 20 740 Pensons notamment à un cas récent où 21 les collectivités francophones de la Province n'ont pas 22 eu les éléments nécessaires pour saisir l'implication 23 de la décision du gouvernement fédéral, d'augmenter de 24 70 millions de dollars, le budget consacré au Programme 25 des langues officielles. Pensons à la création de la StenoTran 184 1 gestion scolaire ici en Colombie-Britannique et au 2 reportage qui a eu lieu. 3 741 Par conséquent, la Fédération 4 recommande que la programmation locale de la SRC 5 reflète une préoccupation éditoriale plus grande visant 6 à donner aux collectivités francophones d'ici, les 7 éléments nécessaires pour comprendre comment les 8 événements d'envergure nationale et provinciale se 9 répercutent sur elle au niveau social et politique. 10 742 En guise de conclusion, rappelons 11 qu'il n'y a pas de radio-diffuseur francophone privé 12 hors-Québec... hors du Québec, et que Radio-Canada est 13 le seul réseau national de télévision de langue 14 française au Canada. 15 743 Compte tenu de cette situation, nous 16 sommes conscients que les attentes du public et 17 d'organismes comme le nôtre sont très élevées, et que 18 les ressources et les moyens dont la Société dispose 19 sont limités après les coupures sévères de ces 20 dernières années. 21 744 Néanmoins, les francophones de la 22 Colombie-Britannique ont besoin de cet outil de 23 communication essentiel qu'est la SRC, et la vigilance 24 du public ne peut que contribuer à son amélioration 25 constante au fil des ans. StenoTran 185 1 745 Merci. 2 746 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci beaucoup, madame 3 Côté. Merci de votre contribution. 4 747 MME PINSKY: Madame Friolet, est-ce 5 que vous avez une présentation séparée ? 6 748 MME BERNIER: J'ai... bon, je suis 7 Nicole Bernier, j'avais fait les changements avec 8 les... 9 749 Donc, Nicole Bernier, responsable des 10 communications à la Fédération des francophones. 11 750 Il y a un aspect que... mon 12 intervention va être très brève, j'aimerais seulement 13 ajouter un aspect à ce qui vient d'être présenté par 14 notre présidente, madame Côté. 15 751 On sait que dans la mission de 16 Radio-Canada, l'un des aspects de la mission est de 17 représenter la diversité locale et régionale à 18 elle-même, mais aussi, à l'ensemble du réseau national, 19 à l'ensemble canadien. 20 752 Et l'aspect que je soulève est un peu 21 le corollaire d'un aspect qui vient d'être soulevé par 22 madame Côté, qui est la couverture, l'absence ou la... 23 comment on pourrait dire, l'importance trop minime 24 accordée à la couverture des événements de la 25 communauté francophone hors-Québec ou ici, en StenoTran 186 1 Colombie-Britannique, a des répercussions aussi sur le 2 réseau national. On sait qu'il y a... et c'est vrai 3 pour la Colombie-Britannique mais aussi pour la 4 communauté francophone hors-Québec. 5 753 On sait qu'il y a un million de 6 francophones en dehors du Québec et la couverture, que 7 ce soit culturel, social, artistique, politique, des 8 événements qui touchent de près la communauté, les 9 enjeux qui la concernent au niveau national, est 10 relativement faible et c'est en partie un problème, je 11 crois, dérivé de la couverture ici, parfois trop faible 12 de ce qui touche de près la communauté. 13 754 On donnait, par exemple, le cas des 14 ententes... du renouvellement des ententes de 15 financement de la communauté francophone qui, bon, il y 16 a des négociations qui se déroulent ou qui s'amorcent 17 présentement. 18 755 Souvent, les éléments nécessaires à 19 la compréhension des enjeux ne sont pas... ne sont pas 20 relevés par ici, au niveau régional, alors c'est 21 difficle et presque impossible au niveau national, de 22 présenter un portrait suffisant, adéquat, réaliste des 23 communautés francophones hors-Québec. 24 756 Alors, il faut le rappeler, on l'a 25 dit, on est la troisième plus grande communauté StenoTran 187 1 francophone au Canada, et on parle très, très, peu 2 souvent de nous sur le réseau national. 3 757 Et, en conséquence, la Fédération des 4 francophones recommande... fait une troisième 5 recommandation, c'est que la programmation du réseau 6 national de la SRC accorde une place plus grande à la 7 réalité sociale, culturelle, économique et politique de 8 la communauté francophone hors-Québec. 9 758 Merci beaucoup. 10 759 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci beaucoup, madame 11 Bernier. Merci. 12 760 MS PINSKY: Mr. Patrick Brown is the 13 next presenter. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 761 MR. BROWN: Thank you very much for 16 the opportunity to speak this afternoon. As a 17 long-time CBC listener and viewer and also someone who 18 lives on an island and does not have cable, I would 19 like to express some ideas on the future role of the 20 CBC and some of its services. 21 762 Since it was started, the 22 contribution has reflected the changing vision of this 23 nation, our national public broadcasting system ranks 24 with the transcontinental railway, our ocean programs 25 and our social policy as an idea of an expression of StenoTran 188 1 Canada. 2 763 As we enter the 21st century, our 3 communications and media more than ever before will 4 define the national dream. Canada is even now becoming 5 what might be termed a virtual nation. Communications 6 technology is evolving rapidly. It gives us the means 7 to convey more information with more choices to more 8 Canadians. The CBC must grasp this opportunity. 9 764 In the 21st century, Canadians have a 10 right to full economic opportunity, to the highest 11 quality of life and to active and informed citizenship. 12 765 Each of these opportunities depends 13 on information. Access to this information is a right 14 of citizens. It has always been so. But in the 21st 15 century it is vital. That is why we need the CBC. The 16 CBC can and should provide a public information 17 infrastructure to serve three vital roles. 18 766 The first for our economy, the second 19 for our culture and the third for our governance. That 20 is not arranged. These three are equally important. 21 Let me tell you what I mean. 22 767 For economic success, Canadians and 23 their enterprises must have accurate information on 24 events, trends and situations locally, nationally, and 25 throughout the world. A gathering and presentation of StenoTran 189 1 this information by Canadians and for Canadians can 2 best be done by a national public broadcasting system. 3 Done well, it can provide an unparalleled economic 4 advantage for Canadians. What I am talking about here 5 is the CBC as an essential part of our economic 6 infrastructure. 7 768 Secondly, our culture defines us as 8 Canadians. This includes everything from hockey to 9 symphonies, art to satire, from mountains to food. It 10 is an incredibly rich and varied culture. Its 11 expression and communication is a traditional CBC role. 12 To be a nation we must all understand and evaluate. 13 That is the second. 14 769 The third for the governance of our 15 country, that national provincial and local levels, 16 Canadians must have accurate, fair and timely 17 information. The CBC has always played a role as a 18 trustee of our nationhood. The informed citizen is the 19 basic requirement for successful government more so now 20 than ever before. Providing access to this information 21 is a prime function of any 21st century nation and, in 22 fact, of the 21st century CBC. 23 770 I offer this as a vision. The CBC 24 has the public information infrastructure of our 25 virtual nation. StenoTran 190 1 771 It may seem a long way from today's 2 beleaguered strike-prone under-funded CBC to such a 3 grand vision, but it is not. There are certainly some 4 essential requirements. But they are not new. Today's 5 CBC is an excellent foundation. First, the 6 requirements. They are three: Integrity, independence 7 and responsibility. 8 772 Integrity. The CBC has to be 9 trustworthy. It must be fair, professional and 10 consistent in its approach. It must be truthful. That 11 truth must be clearly separated from opinion and the 12 CBC must provide the opportunity to broadcast a wide 13 range of opinions. Clearly, this kind of integrity 14 requires independence. The CBC must be clearly and 15 demonstrably independent of the government of the day. 16 It must be publicly funded, independent of annual 17 budget cycles. It must be able to plan effectively 18 over the long term. This is the only way it can 19 attract the best people that Canada has to offer and 20 provide them with a security to do their best work. 21 773 Equally clearly, this independence 22 cannot be maintained without responsibility. It will 23 require the maintenance of the highest professional 24 standards, particularly in news reporting. It will 25 require independent oversight of those standards of its StenoTran 191 1 stewardship of the public interest and of its finances. 2 774 It is time the CBC's mandate returned 3 to reflecting the long-term interest of Canadians and 4 of our nation. This would clearly differentiate it 5 from the commercial broadcasting services. I would 6 emphasize that. That is the differentiation we expect, 7 that is the differentiation we need, that is the 8 differentiation that the CBC can produce. 9 775 But for many years, the CBC has 10 suffered from the conflict between its objectives of 11 journalistic integrity and independence and an 12 organization structure designed to maintain government 13 control. It is time to end that conflict, it is time 14 to free the CBC from government control. 15 776 With respect to CBC services, here is 16 my wish list for the future and, remember, I live on an 17 island, I am not on cable and so I pluck my programming 18 out of the air with a little antenna. 19 777 CBC radio is cheap. It is efficient 20 and you do not have to watch it, you can do something 21 else while you are listening. 22 778 I look for a return to radio programs 23 and away from what I would recall background radio. 24 Let us have more information programming. I like the 25 current split between Radio One and Radio Two. Without StenoTran 192 1 Radio One, we would all be a lot less informed, without 2 Radio Two, where would I go for decent music? 3 779 CBC television. Concentrate on news, 4 information, education and Canadian entertainment. It 5 is really time to rethink the decision to have 6 commercials, particularly since there are not enough to 7 have the time allowed. Too much time is spent taken up 8 with promotional time for CBC programs. I would rather 9 have a shorter broadcast day. 10 780 CBC Newsworld. I would like to see 11 some of Newsworld's content shifted to the main 12 network, CBC TV, and some shifted to Internet 13 broadcasting. It is good stuff, but it is not 14 accessible enough. Newsworld could move to becoming a 15 national forum on a more specialized issue with 16 discussion in greater depths and more time devoted to 17 each topic, the high end of educational broadcasting. 18 This would lead to a clear differentiation from CBC 19 television and from private stations and, again, do not 20 waste my time and the CBC's effort on spot commercials. 21 781 CBC Internet. The use of the 22 Internet is already changing broadcasting. I look for 23 continuing expansion of this function both as text and 24 as radio and television on demand. It should be the 25 library and archive backup for all news and educational StenoTran 193 1 services and we have had in the past years some very 2 good examples of that on the CBC's website. I see 3 Internet transmission as being an alternative or 4 supplement to conventional broadcasting, making radio 5 and television programs available whenever the audience 6 wants them. 7 782 CBC international radio as a vital 8 part of our nation's communications with the rest of 9 the world, should be broadcasting by every means 10 possible, short wave, Internet and programs on other 11 country's radio. 12 783 To summarize, the CBC should become 13 in the 21st century Canada's public information 14 infrastructure. In order to do this, it must be freed 15 from the control of the government of the day and have 16 independent, long-term financing. 17 784 Now, just to close, in 50 years of 18 CBC listening, it seems to me that the CBC's finest 19 hours have demonstrated the integrity and independence 20 and responsibility of what of which I speak. But there 21 are two other essential qualities which have given the 22 service its essential character, these are curiosity 23 and intellectual leadership. Curiosity leads to new 24 information. I want the CBC to explain to me every day 25 something that I hadn't thought about before. It can StenoTran 194 1 do that, it has done that, it should do that in the 2 future. 3 785 Intellectual leadership leads to new 4 insights and new understanding of what that information 5 means to us. I want the CBC to bring me Canada's and 6 the world's best thinking. I am looking for a CBC that 7 will, more than ever before, make a difference to 8 Canadians. With these qualities, tomorrow's CBC can be 9 the heart of our virtual Canada. 10 786 In the words of the 21st century, 11 make it so. Thank you. 12 --- Applause / Applaudissements 13 787 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 14 you very much, Mr. Brown. 15 788 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Ms 16 Sue Truscott. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 789 MS TRUSCOTT: Good afternoon, every 19 one. We have been hearing many diverse opinions this 20 afternoon. We have heard from many groups, many 21 individuals and I want to point out to you that each 22 and every one of these people is a Canadian. They are 23 part of the vast diversity that makes up this nation of 24 ours. CBC is also a part of the vast diversity that 25 makes up this nation. And, as such, it must seek to StenoTran 195 1 represent each and every one of these Canadians, each 2 and every segment of our society, each and every level 3 of diversity. This is no doubt a very difficult task 4 to do, one which CBC must at times find difficult to 5 filter through their own grids because every one of us 6 has a personal grid through which we filter 7 information. However, if CBC is our national 8 telecommunications organization, if it is funded with 9 our taxpayer dollars, this is something that is vitally 10 necessary for it to do. 11 790 Now, CBC is not a member of the 12 Canadian Broadcast Standards Association and while I 13 was at first somewhat surprised to find that out, it 14 was explained to me that the Canadian broadcast 15 standards is an association of private broadcasters who 16 way back when they formed the organization they wanted 17 to jump the gun on being regulated and they wanted to 18 self-regulate. 19 791 Now, since CBC is tax dollar 20 funded -- since it is a national organization and not a 21 private one, it is, therefore, not subject to the 22 Canadian broadcast standards. However, who then is it 23 subject to? Who is it accountable to? How do we, the 24 public, what formats do we use to make the accountable 25 to us? And in my research, the only recourse I could StenoTran 196 1 see was these CRTC hearings that happen approximately 2 every five years, am I correct on that? That is not 3 good enough for an organization that purports to speak 4 to the public. There must be other avenues to make 5 these people accountable. I have not found them. 6 792 Now, someone else stated today about 7 our economy, our culture and our governance. And these 8 things are important as a nation, we need a national 9 broadcasting service that can cover all three of those 10 areas. 11 793 It has been said that people fear the 12 most what they do not understand and that is so true. 13 Now, as we have heard from these different segments of 14 society today, most of them have complained that they 15 are in the minority and they are not understood. The 16 First Nations people are not understood, the 17 francophones are not understood, and it is because 18 people seem to fear what they do not understand. How 19 can we change that? The only way to change that is to 20 inform, to have people have the knowledge to be able to 21 understand one another. 22 794 Now, I am also from a segment of 23 society that is misunderstood quite often. I am of the 24 segment of the society that chooses to teach our 25 children at home, I home school our five children and I StenoTran 197 1 have seen everything from one end of the spectrum to 2 the other when the media is reporting on home 3 schooling. 4 795 My personal experiences with the CBC, 5 frankly, have not been good in this arena and I would 6 like to just take a brief moment to show you 7 approximately a minute and a half worth of video that 8 shows my personal experiences with the CBC. 9 --- Video presentation / Présentation video. 10 796 MS TRUSCOTT: This gentleman came to 11 my home from a program on the French CBC. He purported 12 to do an interview on home schooling. As you can see, 13 he was more interested in environmental issues than he 14 was in home schooling. 15 797 These people spent an entire day with 16 our home and our family and the only portions of that 17 entire day that they chose to air were the parts that 18 talked about our yard. It had nothing to do with 19 anything. When this gentleman came to our home it was 20 obvious right from the start, in fact, it was obvious 21 to me before he came from the home from things other 22 interviewees had said that he had a hidden agenda. 23 798 Now, we have contacted this person, 24 we sent him 20 pages of e-mails from members of the 25 home schooling community. They have not responded to StenoTran 198 1 us. We have made attempts to contact CBC Vancouver, 2 they have not responded to us. We were not even able 3 to fax CBC Vancouver a copy of these 20 pages of 4 information because they did not answer our phone calls 5 that all we did was request a fax number. 6 799 My five children have been shafted, 7 plain and simple and there has been no accountability. 8 There has been no explanation of why this was done to 9 us. They took hours of home schooling video. They 10 could have made a very well represented, unbiased 11 documentary. They chose not to do so. It was on their 12 agenda right from the word go. 13 800 Now, a gentleman here talked about 14 the story of Buddha. He said you can either choose to 15 wound and destroy, but you have to be a bigger person 16 to create and heal. That is what we are now asking 17 from the CBC. We are asking them to be accountable, to 18 go after this reporter who was unspeakably rude. You 19 saw how my son was closing doors that they opened. 20 What reporter comes into your home, does not even ask 21 permission to tape, all that stuff he was taping in the 22 yard was before he even came to the house and 23 introduced himself to me. What reporter goes to closed 24 doors and videotapes areas that he was told were off 25 limits? StenoTran 199 1 801 I would think that because CBC has 2 not made this person accountable, he is going to 3 continue to do this. And this is just one small 4 program. 5 802 Now, I do not have time to show you 6 the entire program, but the program appeared to pit 7 people against one another on several levels. It 8 appeared to pit the French against the English, it 9 appeared to pit home school against public school, it 10 appeared to pit the rich against the poor. 11 803 Now, if this is a national 12 broadcasting company that purports to speak for all 13 Canadians, should it not be promoting unity, not 14 devisiveness? We have a rich diversity in this 15 country. But by promoting devisiveness, by showing and 16 pitting people against one another, we are not going to 17 create any sense of national unity. So I am calling on 18 CBC to answer to these charges and to do something 19 about them. Let us promote unity with diversity, not 20 division. Thank you. 21 --- Applause / Applaudissements. 22 804 MS PINSKY: I will just note that in 23 terms of what types of recourse you have, of course, 24 the CRTC does have the mandate to ensure that CBC 25 broadcasters are consistent with its mandate and the StenoTran 200 1 regulations in the Broadcasting Act. And so members of 2 the public are free to file complaints with the CRTC 3 alleging that a broadcast may not be compliant with any 4 of the CBC's mandates. 5 805 MS TRUSCOTT: Okay. Thank you. If I 6 could speak to you afterwards, I will find about 7 exactly how to go about that, then. 8 806 MS PINSKY: Okay. The next presenter 9 is Mr. Rob Egan. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 807 MR. FRANCIS: Actually, Rob Egan and 12 I are presenting jointly and I am starting. 13 808 My name is Michael Francis. I am the 14 chairman of B.C. Film. We'd like to begin by thanking 15 the CRTC for hosting these public consultations. This 16 is a valuable process and we appreciate the opportunity 17 to voice in person the role that we feel the CBC should 18 play in the Canadian broadcasting system. 19 809 We'd also like to state that we 20 recognize that the Canadian television industry has two 21 language base sectors and our comments only relate to 22 the English language broadcast sector. 23 810 British Columbia Film supports the 24 creation of film and television production by 25 independent British Columbia producers. In 1997-98, StenoTran 201 1 British Columbia film supported 73 hours of B.C. 2 television movies and a series of 53 hours of B.C. 3 documentary and arts and entertainment programming. We 4 are on track to exceed that output in our current 5 fiscal year. 6 811 We are here today on behalf of our 7 clients, B.C. Independent Producers and the thousands 8 of employees who work with them. 9 812 The CBC is a significant partner in 10 our endeavours to support independent production in 11 this province. As a national public broadcaster, the 12 CBC should be making a long-term commitment to creating 13 B.C. programming for both regional broadcast and 14 national broadcast. 15 813 Vancouver is a major North American 16 production and cultural centre. The voices and stories 17 of British Columbia should be accessible across Canada 18 and contribute to the Canadian broadcasting system. 19 814 However, if we look at the CBC's 20 record in this region over the last decade, this has 21 not been accomplished. CBC licencing of independent 22 B.C. drama declined significantly during the '90s. CBC 23 programming has not been sufficiently innovative nor 24 distinctive from that of the broadcasting of other 25 major networks. StenoTran 202 1 815 In the last decade, there has been no 2 major one-hour episodic drama licensed from B.C. for 3 national broadcast until this year. There were several 4 half-hour dramas and youth series licensed in the early 5 to mid-1990s, but until "Davinci's Inquest", there was 6 no one-hour dramatic series from B.C. on our public 7 broadcasters' prime time schedule. 8 816 We believe that the CBC needs 9 appropriate fiscal resources in order to fulfil its 10 mandate. We understand that there was a recommendation 11 in the report of the federal feature film advisory 12 committee which suggested $25 million should be taken 13 from the CBC to support feature film making. 14 817 While we agree in principle with the 15 report's objective of supporting Canadian feature film, 16 we do not believe it should be at the expense of the 17 CBC. We support, without hesitation, the report of the 18 $25 million by the CBC. 19 818 These resources will have significant 20 impact if sent equitably by the CBC to stimulate 21 Canadian television production. 22 819 Now my colleague, Rob Egan. 23 820 MR. EGAN: Thank you. To put our 24 comments into context, we would like to emphasize that 25 the Canadian film and television industry has three StenoTran 203 1 main production centres. Montreal is a centre of 2 French language production and Vancouver and Toronto 3 are centres of English language production. 4 821 In British Columbia last year, a 5 record-setting $808 million was spent in the province 6 in film and television production. $363 million of 7 that in Canadian production. Vancouver in particular 8 has developed a strong and vibrant motion picture 9 industry. We have talented Canadian writers, 10 directors, producers, editors, performers, composers 11 and designers all of whom are able to contribute to the 12 creation of Canadian stories for the screen. 13 822 We have world-class crews who have 14 refined their skills and practised their craft on major 15 American productions shooting in British Columbia. We 16 have a strong infrastructure, attractive fiscal 17 incentives set up by the provincial governments and 18 diverse locations. 19 823 At the same time, there has not been 20 allocation of CBC resources. Vancouver, in our view, 21 has not been treated like a major Canadian production 22 centre in the same way that Toronto has been. We are 23 asking the CRTC to recognize Vancouver's role as a key 24 production and cultural centre in Canada and to require 25 that the CBC do the same. StenoTran 204 1 824 With the wealth of talent and 2 experience in Vancouver, we find this to be 3 disappointing. The CBC as a national public 4 broadcaster must be allocating its resources in a way 5 which acknowledges an equity between the two main 6 centres of English language production in the country. 7 825 Our statistics show that CBC support 8 of independent production in which British Columbia 9 Film was a partner was severely lacking in the 1990s. 10 In 1993-94 CBC cash commitments to television 11 productions contracted by British Columbia Film was at 12 $4.2 million. In subsequent fiscal years this dropped 13 to $3.8 million, $1 million, $600,000 and finally to 14 less than $500,000 in 1997-98. Meanwhile, CBC cash 15 development projects supported by British Columbia Film 16 fell to below $50,000 from 1993 through 1996. 17 826 The withdrawal of CBC support during 18 those years was an obstacle to the expansion of the 19 Canadian television industry in Vancouver. 20 827 Vancouver and Toronto are major 21 English language production centres, dynamic, maturing 22 and increasingly competing with each other. The CBC's 23 commitments must reflect the reality of this change in 24 the Canadian television industry. 25 828 In particular, we ask the CRTC and StenoTran 205 1 the CBC to examine the CBC's cash commitments to 2 independent production across the country. We note 3 that in the 1997-98, annual report of the Canada 4 television and cable production fund, that the CBC 5 contributed about $38.7 million to new Canadian 6 programming supported by the fund. 7 829 The question that arises is, how much 8 of the CBC's licence fees support programming in 9 Vancouver, one of the anchors of English language 10 production in Canada. According to our statistics, in 11 that same fiscal year British Columbia Film supported 12 projects with less than $500,000 in CBC licence fees. 13 830 Considering the size and impact of 14 Vancouver and British Columbia as a centre of 15 production, this is a very small portion of the nearly 16 $40 million spent by the CBC across Canada. Clearly, 17 this question begs further research and analysis. 18 831 Equally as important a question is 19 how much of these licences support programming that 20 cannot be found on the scheduling of private 21 broadcasters. As a public broadcaster, the CBC should 22 be encouraging innovative drama and provocative 23 hard-hitting documentary programming not found on the 24 commercially driven broadcast system. 25 832 On a positive note, we have been StenoTran 206 1 pleased to see a renewed commitment to this centre by 2 the CBC in the last year and a half. In our current 3 fiscal year, CBC commitments to productions assisted by 4 British Columbia film is approximately $3.7 million. 5 This is an improvement over the last few years. We are 6 delighted to have jointly funded "Davinci's Inquest" 7 and "11th Hour" with the CBC and to witness "Davinci's 8 Inquest"'s success in attracting audiences in the 9 network prime time schedule. 10 833 The CBC is also licensing "Nothing 11 Too Good for a Cowboy", "These Arms of Mine", and 12 "Edgemont Road". We are also pleased to see the hiring 13 of a development officers for the Vancouver office, a 14 position which had been vacant for some time. 15 834 The CBC, and we here in B.C. must 16 ensure that this renewed commitment continues with 17 tangible support for the creative voices that tell our 18 stories. 19 835 We would like to see Vancouver become 20 a decision-making and administrative centre within the 21 CBC. The Vancouver office of the CBC should have more 22 autonomy and greater power to make decisions regarding 23 development and production in Vancouver for national 24 broadcast. Let us be clear that we are not advocating 25 a duplicate, costly bureaucracy for Vancouver, we are StenoTran 207 1 advocating a transfer of decision-making to the 2 Vancouver base of our national public broadcaster 3 operating in what has now become one of the two major 4 centres of English language production in Canada. 5 836 As a decision-making centre, the 6 Vancouver office should have access to national air 7 time to promote B.C. programming. This includes 8 quality regional programming for local audiences, 9 innovative programs with cultural value for B.C. 10 viewers and a network schedule that shows B.C.'s 11 producers, actors, writers, composers, performing 12 artists and crews that the CBC can be counted on as a 13 purveyor of our cultural landscape. 14 837 The CBC has a strong role to play in 15 the Canadian broadcasting system, but it needs to 16 diversify and be more reflective of the changing 17 reality of the Canadian television industry. If we 18 look at the CBC's record in the 1990s in terms of 19 licencing major drama from British Columbia, spending 20 to support B.C. independent production and filling its 21 network schedule with quality innovative programming 22 including productions from Vancouver and B.C., the CBC 23 has not lived up to the expectations that British 24 Columbians have for its public broadcaster. 25 838 Again, Vancouver is today one of the StenoTran 208 1 two major centres for English language production in 2 Canada and is a hub of cultural activity with a stable 3 of talented and experienced writers, actors, directors 4 and crews. 5 839 There is already a strong motion 6 picture infrastructure established here and B.C. 7 regional producers, particularly in Vancouver are 8 becoming more prominent. 9 840 B.C. independent producers contribute 10 unique innovative quality programming to the CBC. In 11 turn, the CBC should be investing increased resources 12 to this centre of production to renew its relevance by 13 actively supporting industry growth and cultural 14 opportunity in B.C. 15 841 We ask that the CBC recognize our 16 changing reality and commit to developing its Vancouver 17 office as a decision-making centre to ensure that the 18 West Coast industry can contribute fully to Canadian 19 programming. We know that decisions have to be made 20 somewhere but why does it always seem that they are 21 being made elsewhere, usually in Toronto? 22 842 These commitments include licence 23 fees to support independent production in this industry 24 and cultural centre, access to network prime time 25 schedules to showcase our talent and tell our stories StenoTran 209 1 and autonomy and decision-making to respond to the 2 talent, experience and opportunity in B.C. that is 3 seeking out the CBC. 4 843 As we embark on the new millennium 5 which you identified in one of your questions framing 6 these public consultations, we ask the question: Has 7 there ever been a better moment in time to acknowledge 8 that cultural ties after all are the ones that bind in 9 a revitalized and renewed CBC is something that we all 10 deserve in the new millennium. Thank you. 11 844 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 12 you. I would have two questions for you. I would like 13 to know how you explain the kind of factors you see as 14 being the ones that explain the low production into the 15 region of British Columbia during the 1990s. What do 16 you see as being the reasons? Do you think that your 17 recommendation or -- yeah, your recommendation about 18 Vancouver office and decision-making to be here in 19 Vancouver with more autonomy without duplicating 20 bureaucracy, I heard that, too, do you think it is 21 achievable with the level of financing that the CBC has 22 today? 23 845 MR. FRANCIS: If I can answer that 24 first, I would like to associate myself with the 25 remarks of Phillip Keatley earlier. I think they StenoTran 210 1 exhibited a greater knowledge of the internal workings 2 of the CBC than I could ever aspire to. But I think 3 that his -- the points that he was making were very, 4 very similar to the ones included in our brief. 5 846 We have to be very careful about 6 duplication. There is no question about that. But 7 also, when one looks at the comparative infrastructure 8 between Toronto and Vancouver, it becomes immediately 9 obvious that the balance is way out of line and of 10 course there has to be a head office and of course 11 there are a lot of head office functions that have to 12 be only in one place. But, in terms of programming, 13 program selection and whatnot, we have found it very 14 difficult -- our producers have found it very difficult 15 to deal with the CBC. It is a long way away. 16 847 Now, as we mentioned in this 17 submission, the last year and a half has brought a lot 18 of very pleasant change. And the period of time 19 between when Mr. Keatley left the CBC and Lisa Purdy 20 was hired as the development officer, that was a 21 considerable period of time and during that period of 22 time, there was very little development work done. So 23 we are seeing the results of that now. 24 848 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: And 25 in terms of more autonomy and more activity here, do StenoTran 211 1 you think that it goes with more financing or just the 2 pursuit of what exists now with a better ballast 3 possible without more financing? 4 849 MR. FRANCIS: I think more could be 5 done. More could have been done throughout the 1990s 6 without more financing. Certainly when we mention that 7 we are opposed to stripping the CBC of the $25 million 8 as advocated it by the feature film committee, we are 9 showing a sensitivity to that. But it is a major 10 cultural agency that has been stripped of financial 11 resources. So to the extent those financial resources 12 can be reapplied straight into the production sector, I 13 mean, we applaud that. 14 850 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 15 you very much. That is all I have, thank you. 16 851 MS PINSKY: Ms Shari Graydon. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 852 MS GRAYDON: I am here on behalf of 19 Media Watch, the national non-profit women's 20 organization that is dedicated to making Canadian -- 21 Canada's media environment more equitable. 22 853 As you no doubt know, Media Watch was 23 established in 1981 as the result of a CRTC study which 24 documented how significantly under represented and 25 stereotypically portrayed women in Canadian StenoTran 212 1 broadcasting were at the time. 2 854 My presence here today as president 3 of Media Watch is indicative of the fact that over the 4 past 18 years, the picture has not changed sufficiently 5 to render Media Watch obsolete yet. We are working on 6 that. 7 855 We conduct media analysis research, 8 we develop and deliver media literacy programs and we 9 facilitate public advocacy initiatives that support 10 citizen interaction with media producers, distributors 11 and indeed regulators. 12 856 Our overarching goal is to create a 13 more responsible media environment that celebrates, not 14 undermines a humane and equitable society. And we 15 believe that the CBC plays a critical leadership role 16 in this regard. 17 857 Would like to begin citing two 18 important documents as the framework for our 19 intervention of the Canadian Broadcasting Act considers 20 the airwaves are a public utility to be used for the 21 good of all Canadians. CBC's mission statement states 22 that the public broadcasters' role is to reflect the 23 changing realities of the Canadian experience and of 24 the world in which we live. 25 858 We believe that in recent years the StenoTran 213 1 deep and repeated cut backs to the CBC have 2 significantly undermined the public broadcasters' 3 ability to both meet its mandate and to fulfil the 4 leadership roll in the broadcasting system as a whole. 5 859 The current strike is a symptom of 6 the fiscal siege and is serving to further erode the 7 CBC at a time when its contribution is needed more than 8 ever. 9 860 The two key issues that we would like 10 to address this afternoon include the importance of the 11 CBC's continued independence and the leadership role 12 that the public broadcaster plays in the area of 13 equitable representation. 14 861 On the independence front, increasing 15 corporate concentration of media ownership in Canada in 16 both print and broadcasting sectors makes the CBC's 17 independent role even more critical than ever before 18 and its independence must be sustained. 19 862 As the recipient of public funds, CBC 20 is in a unique position to be able to set aside 21 commercial interests and to provide a forum in which 22 media practices themselves can be examined in a 23 critical way. 24 863 I cannot emphasize this enough. 25 864 And I would say that even though CBC StenoTran 214 1 television is partially reliant on advertising dollars, 2 CBC television has managed to, I think, do this in a 3 way that other private broadcasters have not. 4 865 Media are tremendously powerful 5 socializing forces which now impact on every aspect of 6 Canadian contemporary life. And it is crucial that an 7 organization like the CBC be supported in ensuring 8 continued discussion about the role, the impact and the 9 responsibility of the media as a whole, especially at a 10 time when commercial media appear increasingly 11 reluctant to do this. 12 866 Programs like "Under Currents", for 13 instance, need to continue to be supported, not cut 14 back. And the CBC should seek out other opportunities 15 to develop programming that provides a media literacy 16 function. 17 867 The CBC's willingness to challenge 18 and question some of the most powerful and least 19 accountable institutions of our day is crucial and must 20 be protected. 21 868 The importance of CBC's continued 22 independence was also recently addressed by another 23 member of Media Watch's board, Catherine Murray, who 24 served on the Juneau committee which reviewed the 25 mandate of the CBC. I would like to reiterate some of StenoTran 215 1 the comments Dr. Murray played recently in the Globe 2 and Mail. In particular, she argued that the CBC board 3 appointments must be transparent and that appointees 4 must command a widespread public respect and 5 legitimacy. It goes without saying that stable, secure 6 funding is fundamental to the CBC's continued 7 independence. 8 869 I think as an observer, it has been 9 phenomenal the degree to which CBC has been able to 10 continue this role in recent years, despite the cut 11 backs that it has sustained. 12 870 The second issue we would like to 13 address is that of representation. Broadcasters have 14 an obligation to reflect the interests and perspectives 15 of all Canadians as outlined in the Broadcasting Act. 16 Unfortunately, few resources are invested in 17 documenting the extent to which they are, in fact, 18 living up to this charge. 19 871 Media Watch and other non-profit 20 organizations are limited in their capacity to 21 undertake such research and we urge the CRTC to start 22 making public the data collected relating to 23 broadcasters' initiatives to achieving equity in both 24 portrayal and employment terms. 25 872 We also believe that an update of the StenoTran 216 1 CRTC-sponsored air and research studies done in the 2 1980s is well overdue. It is impossible to evaluate 3 broadcasters' performance without a more rigorous 4 measurement processes. 5 873 Undertaking this benchmark research 6 would provide Canadians with a much better means of 7 determining whether or not the broadcasters using the 8 public air waves have earned that privilege and deserve 9 to be permitted to continue. 10 874 In 1994, Media Watch conducted some 11 content analysis research in which CBC came out 12 significantly ahead of private broadcasters in its 13 inclusion of women and minorities in news programming. 14 875 In a comparison of CBC, Global, CTV 15 and Newsworld, CBC had the highest percentage of female 16 reporters at 46 per cent followed by Newsworld at 44 17 per cent with global and CTV falling well behind at 36 18 per cent and 26 per cent respectively. 19 876 Women, as everyone knows, make up 51 20 per cent of the population. CBC broadcasts also 21 included the highest percentage of reporters from 22 diverse background at 7 per cent followed by Newsworld 23 at 4.5 per cent and then Global and CTV at less than 3 24 per cent each. 25 877 This trend was echoed by the figures StenoTran 217 1 for news sources. CBC again came out significantly 2 ahead of the others with more than 16 per cent of its 3 sources reflecting people from diverse ethnic and 4 cultural programs compared to CTV's 10 per cent and 5 global's 6 per cent. 6 878 Women and minorities were and still 7 are under represented in some regards by the public 8 broadcaster and this needs to be addressed by the CBC 9 as it does by private broadcasters. In addition, these 10 figures are now five years old and clearly need to be 11 updated. 12 879 However, they do point to the 13 leadership role that the public broadcaster has been 14 able to play in more equitably representing Canadians 15 to themselves. 16 880 We believe that CBC must be supported 17 in its role of nurturing new voices and diverse 18 perspectives. This is integral to its core mandate and 19 has been evident in a number of news and entertainment 20 programs which it has developed and broadcast. We 21 believe this must continue. 22 881 We also urge you to maintain a local 23 CBC presence in communities across the country through 24 stable, long term funding. 25 882 This, too, ensures that a diversity StenoTran 218 1 of regional perspectives are available for national 2 programming and also supports and independent 3 commercial free news voice. 4 883 One final word about the CRTC's role, 5 I know that in this particular hearing process, you are 6 hearing from many individual Canadians who are 7 passionate about the CBC and who want to go on record 8 in terms of its unique role and contribution to 9 nurturing Canadian culture, telling Canadian stories 10 and connecting citizens across the country. 11 884 If I were not here on behalf of Media 12 Watch, I would want my voice counted in this regard in 13 support of the CBC. However, individual citizens 14 rarely have the resources to participate as fully in 15 CRTC hearings. And non-profit media organizations such 16 as Media Watch also have extremely limited resources to 17 bring to bear on these processes. Yet, such 18 independent voices are critical to provide balance to 19 the hearings which are often dominated by private 20 broadcasters able to invest significant time and money 21 in presentations which reflect their complex interests. 22 The fundamental role media should play requires that 23 these independent voices be heard there. 24 885 I will urge again as Media Watch has 25 done in the past, that intervenor costs for citizen StenoTran 219 1 groups should be considered and would help to offset 2 this imbalance. Thank you. 3 --- Applause / Applaudissements 4 886 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 5 you very much. And it is in waiting for a change of 6 legislation that would allow the commission to 7 reimburse the expenses we have included in the 11 8 cities and regional consultation that is part of the 9 public hearing for the renewal of the CBC. 10 887 So we thought that if we could not 11 reimburse, we would travel. 12 888 MS PINSKY: Mr. Robert Hackett. 13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 14 889 MR. HACKETT: Thank you. 15 890 I should introduce myself. First of 16 all, as an associate professor of communication at 17 Simon Fraser University and also co-director since 1993 18 of Newswatch Canada which is a project initiated by the 19 Canadian Association of Journalists and which draws on 20 the work of some of our best students in our school of 21 communication using social science methods, 22 particularly content analysis to explore blind spots in 23 Canada's news media against a background of growing 24 concentration of ownership, cut backs to investigative 25 journalism and, in deed, cut backs to the CBC, those StenoTran 220 1 were the original concerns that led the Canadian 2 Association of Journalists to undertake this project 3 which we have been doing for the last six years. I 4 should emphasize that I am speaking as an individual 5 and not on behalf of the project itself. 6 891 It seems to me that not only the 7 funding but also the very legitimacy of public 8 broadcasting are under siege today. CBC's arm's length 9 relationship with the government, essential to its 10 credibility, is being eroded. Witness, for example, 11 the Milewsky case or the reported proposal to establish 12 an Ottawa-based vice-president to oversee all CBC news 13 and current affairs programming. 14 892 Meanwhile, there is a range of 15 interest groups which for their own purposes would like 16 in various ways to see significant chunks of the CBC's 17 operations privatized or downsized or commercialized. 18 And we have well-financed and media-connected free 19 market fundamentalists from a whole stable of National 20 Post columnists to the Fraser Institute keeping up a 21 steady patter that CBC news is biased or is needlessly 22 duplicating the services of private broadcasters. 23 893 And local news seems to be one of the 24 areas that they have targeted for elimination. 25 Defenders of CBC reply, rightly I think, that CBC has StenoTran 221 1 done more than the private broadcasters to report the 2 world from a Canadian perspective or to explain the 3 regions of Canada to each other. But there is also a 4 broader case to be made for public service journalism; 5 namely, that it is a bulwark not only of political and 6 cultural sovereignty but also of political democracy. 7 894 So why is this the case? Well, one 8 of the requirements of a genuinely democratic society 9 and it is implied in the Broadcasting Act is a 10 political communication system which helps sustain an 11 informed citizenry an adequate opportunity for diverse 12 and sometimes conflicting interests to contribute to 13 public debate. 14 895 A democratic media system ideally 15 would represent diverse interests and ensure that the 16 wealthy would not unduly influence media and political 17 agendas. And if you think back to the Aird Report that 18 was, as I understand, initially one of the rationales 19 for creating public broadcasting in the first place. 20 896 Democratic journalism would also 21 remind us of what we have in common and provide an 22 arena for discussing matters of common concern. 23 897 Well, suppose we did not have public 24 broadcasting, could we rely on new media technology to 25 sustain democratic diversity as some observers argue? StenoTran 222 1 I would say not likely. The Internet increasingly to 2 take its most prominent example of new media 3 technology, the media is increasingly being harnessed 4 by transnational giants with commercial rather than 5 democratic purposes and even if the net does manage to 6 maintain its interactive and anarchic culture, it is 7 hardly likely to constitute a common meeting ground for 8 Canadians. That is not to deny that CBC should have a 9 strong presence there. My point is that technology on 10 its own is unlikely to be a democratic saviour. 11 898 Well, what about private broadcasters 12 and the daily press? Are they not more responsive to 13 consumer choices than tax-subsidized CBC and, 14 therefore, as the free marketers contend, more 15 democratic? Again, not necessarily. 16 899 Historically the free press help to 17 democratize authoritarian regimes. But today in North 18 America, in a thoroughly commercialized system, the 19 free press is too often reduced to a property right of 20 a handful of media owners. The market logic of one 21 dollar, one vote has an ambiguous relationship with a 22 democratic logic of one person one vote. Commercial 23 media tend to favour consumerism over other social 24 values and affluent consumers whom advertisers most 25 want to reach over the less well-healed. StenoTran 223 1 900 Well, perhaps we take for granted 2 that most Canadian newspapers have business sections 3 but not labour sections, or that glossy magazines are 4 distributed free in Shaughnessy but not in Surrey. 5 901 But, as a Pulitzer Prize winning 6 journalist and media educator reminds us, it is worth 7 thinking about the systemic class bias of the 8 commercial media in which these kind of discrepancies 9 symbolize. 10 902 The user-pay broadcasting and online 11 information services simply cater disproportionately to 12 affluent and institutional subscribers and those 13 commercial media which do reach popular audiences tend 14 too readily towards shrillness, infotainment and 15 knee-jerk authoritarianism. 16 903 Commercial media also have another 17 limitation, particularly at the local level. That is 18 they are too vulnerable to providing soft coverage of 19 advertisers themselves. Indeed, the centre for the 20 study of commercialism in Washington, D.C. has 21 documented dozens of cases of outright censorship 22 throughout America's highly commercialized news system. 23 904 The biases of the commercial media 24 system are amplified by concentrated and conglomerate 25 corporate ownership well advanced in the press and StenoTran 224 1 increasing in broadcasting which is a question I 2 understand is on your own agenda. 3 905 These ownership structures make news 4 rooms more vulnerable to the external interests of 5 parent corporations and owners. Even more important, 6 diversity and the system as a whole can be reduced 7 simply as a byproduct of economic rationalization by 8 these giant media corporations. 9 906 At Simon Fraser University, our own 10 news watch, Canada research on news patterns in the 11 daily press provides evidence, we think, of ongoing 12 double standards, notably in favour of business spokes 13 people, institutes and policy options, over their 14 labour and progressive counterparts. 15 907 Moreover, news corporations seem to 16 find it difficult to cover themselves with the same 17 critical independence that they apply to other 18 institutions. That is surely not a shocker, it is not 19 surprising, but it is nevertheless significant given 20 the economic and cultural power of the medium. 21 908 At its best, CBC's journalism can 22 counter balance these limitations. While audience 23 fragmentation is a problem for all networks and one 24 could argue a problem that has been worsened for CBC 25 more than the private sector, given licencing decisions StenoTran 225 1 over the last several years in which I understand the 2 public broadcasters only received about two out of the 3 last 50 specialty licences. Audience fragmentation is 4 a problem for all networks, but nevertheless CBC's 5 national news programs continue to set the standards 6 for broadcast journalism in Canada. 7 909 And at the local level, even with 8 decimated resources, CBC journalism can still offer a 9 distinct voice. And I want to take one area with which 10 I am familiar, coverage of the media industries 11 themselves. 12 910 In the past three years, local CBC 13 and radio and television have broken stories or given 14 in depth treatment to issues which most of the 15 corporate media avoided. Some examples include of 16 Hollinger's donation to the B.C. Liberal Party in the 17 1996 provincial election, Southam's take over the 18 Victoria Times-Colonist, David Black's edict to his 50 19 or more editors on the Nisga'a treaty and our own news 20 watch Canada's research report on the Vancouver Sun. 21 911 All of those were covered by the CBC 22 and with the occasional exception of CKNW and the 23 Georgia Straight, many of those stories might not 24 otherwise have been brought to public light. 25 912 That is not to suggest that CBC's StenoTran 226 1 journalism is perfect. CBC's own audiences tend to be 2 up-scale and demographically unrepresented. CBC could 3 do more to counteract as Shari Graydon has pointed out, 4 the gender as well as class bias of the voices accessed 5 in the other quality media. And arguably, the CBC 6 needs to find ways to speak in a popular voice without 7 descending into tabloid journalism. 8 913 Beyond that, there is, as many people 9 have already noted, the long-standing need for a secure 10 funding base which avoids the twin pitfalls of 11 political and commercial pressure in a climate of 12 excessive commercialism and corporate concentration. 13 914 Today in North America, many 14 observers have argued the very institutional basis for 15 independent public affairs journalism is in question. 16 And given the structural biases I have already noted, I 17 do not see increased advertising as the answer, at 18 least not for CBC's news and information programming. 19 915 If the quest for ratings and sponsors 20 comes to dominate CBC's own programming 21 decision-making, it will have no distinctive purpose. 22 Instead, I would like to make a proposal, I guess, in 23 the Swiftian sense: Reduce advertising on CBC but at 24 the same time impose a dedicated tax on advertising 25 which could be used to support public broadcasting and StenoTran 227 1 other non-profit media which meet democratic 2 unification needs largely ignored in a corporate 3 commercial media system. 4 916 I think, in conclusion, that the free 5 marketeers are right about one thing, there is no point 6 subsidizing CBC to duplicate what private broadcasters 7 are doing. But for the free marketeers, that means 8 eliminating CBC's local news and much else besides. 9 But I think we can draw the opposite collusion, that is 10 CBC's regional journalism needs to be strengthened, not 11 to duplicate the private broadcasters, but to counter 12 balance them. 13 917 And, just as a footnote, I would like 14 to say that insofar as the Commission has a mandate to 15 make visible to Canadians issues of quality and 16 diversity in broadcasting news, we at News Watch would 17 be very interested, I think, in participating in future 18 public forums on that. 19 918 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: That 20 is a good note for further study. Thank you very much 21 for your contribution. Thank you. 22 --- Applause / Applaudissements 23 919 MS PINSKY: Those are all the 24 presenters for this afternoon. If the CBC 25 representative wants to come up to the table to StenoTran 228 1 respond. 2 920 M. GROULX: Madame la Présidente, 3 chers membres du public et puis de la communauté 4 francophone, merci d'abord de... merci de vous être 5 déplacés pour démontrer votre intérêt. Mon nom est 6 Robert Groulx, je suis directeur de la Radio française 7 de Radio-Canada en Colombie-Britannique. 8 921 Alors, merci de votre participation, 9 nous avons... de votre contribution et de vos 10 commentaires, de vos critiques aussi qui nous ont tous 11 été très importants. 12 922 Comme vous pouvez l'imaginer, comme 13 vous l'avez peut-être constaté, on a tous pris bonne 14 note de vos remarques, de vos suggestions, de vos 15 propositions et de vos attentes. Les importantes 16 perspectives d'avenir aussi et d'ouverture que vous 17 nous avez présenté pour nous aider très certainement à 18 bien développer notre rôle dans cet environnement 19 médiatique constamment en évolution. 20 923 Enfin, j'aimerais aussi rappeler que 21 Radio-Canada a un processus de responsabilité 22 journalistique très développé, une politique 23 journalistique très précise qui donne accès à tous les 24 membres du public qui ont des récriminations ou des 25 plaintes à formuler, à s'adresser directement aux StenoTran 229 1 responsables de programmes et aussi au ombudsman de 2 Radio-Canada, autant pour les services français que les 3 services anglais. 4 924 Merci. 5 --- Applause / Applaudissements 6 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 7 925 MS HALL: Thanks Robert. And thanks 8 again, Madam Chair. 9 926 My name is Rae Hall. I am the 10 regional director of television for CBC British 11 Columbia. Thank you for letting us be a part of the 12 CRTC's public consultations so that we could hear what 13 British Columbians have to say about the CBC. Thank 14 you all of you for taking the time to be here and to 15 those of you who made comments, thank you for taking 16 such pains in your presentation. 17 927 Your comments have been an 18 inspiration. Your support is much appreciated. The 19 passion that you displayed today at times gave me goose 20 bumps and the points that you have made in areas where 21 we could make improvements have been noted and we will 22 respond to each of you individually. 23 928 There were a few specific issues that 24 were raised today which I would like very much to 25 address. First, in regards to advocacy advertising on StenoTran 230 1 CBC television, it is accurate that the policy 2 regarding advocacy advertising changed in recent years 3 at CBC. I would just like to read a paragraph from 4 CBC's current policies regarding advocacy advertising. 5 "CBC accepts such messages 6 because it believes that the 7 democratic rights of Canadians 8 will be best served by policies 9 promoting freedom of speech." 10 929 However, advocacy advertisements will 11 not be aired on CBC, all news channels, nor within 12 information programs, programs whose regular mandate is 13 to report on controversial public issues or programs in 14 which the CBC does not schedule advertising. 15 930 Just to clarify the issue that was 16 raised earlier today regarding ad busters, I would also 17 like to remind you that there is an ombudsman process 18 for both the English language services and the French 19 language services. And if any of you have criticisms 20 or comments to make regarding CBC programs, I encourage 21 you to make yourselves known to any of us and we can 22 certainly let you know how best to contact the 23 ombudsman for either language. 24 931 Finally, when it comes to the voices 25 and stories of Canadians and ensuring that those voices StenoTran 231 1 and stories are heard, that goes to the very core of 2 what CBC television and radio is all about. That is 3 why we are here. 4 932 As CBC resources have been reduced, 5 we continue to work to maintain that balance. 6 Particularly in the area of drama, it takes some time 7 for the development process to occur which is why we 8 are very pleased that this fall on the CBC television 9 prime time schedule there will be four B.C.-based 10 dramatic series on the schedule which make British 11 Columbia one of the very best-represented provinces on 12 the CBC television schedule. 13 933 The development office at CBC in 14 Vancouver has continued to exist -- just as a point of 15 clarification -- through the '80s and the '90s and 16 continues to exist today. 17 934 It was a privilege to listen to all 18 of you today. I am encouraged by what you have to say 19 and I look forward to more presentations this evening. 20 Thank you very much. 21 --- Applause / Applaudissements 22 935 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 23 you. I would like to thank every one of you to have 24 participated in the consultation. I repeat that we had 25 the help of court reporters and translators who will StenoTran 232 1 make sure that it gets on the public record and it is 2 part of the public hearing that will conduct with the 3 renewal of the applications with the renewal of the 4 CBC. Thank you for your participation and 5 contribution. 6 936 I remind you that the applications of 7 the CBC will be gazetted on the 27th of March and you 8 have until the 30th of April if you want to have 9 additional comments in written form to send them to the 10 CRTC so that it can also be considered for the analysis 11 and the renewal of applications. Thank you very much 12 and thank you. 13 --- Recess at 1645 / Suspension à 1645 14 --- Upon resuming at 1800 / Reprise à 1800 15 937 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 16 Alors, bon soir, ladies and gentlemen, good evening. 17 We will start. Welcome to the public consultation on 18 the CBC. 19 938 My name is Françoise Bertrand and I 20 am the CRTC's chairperson. We are here to gather your 21 views and hear your comments on CBC radio and 22 television. In your opinion, how should the Canadian 23 Broadcasting Corporation fulfil its roles in the coming 24 years. 25 939 The CBC is a national public service StenoTran 233 1 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays 2 an important role in the Canadian broadcasting system. 3 Today, many elements are constantly being added to the 4 broadcasting system as new technologies multiply, 5 converge, open up new horizons and increasingly offer 6 new services. In this context, we want to know what 7 are your needs and expectations as viewers and 8 listeners of the CBC. 9 940 Given that it is very important that 10 the commission hears what you have to say, this is why 11 my fellow commissioners and myself find it vital to 12 come and meet with you to discuss these issues and why 13 we are holding this series of regional consultations 14 from one end of the country to the other in 11 Canadian 15 cities. 16 941 These consultations are designed to 17 give you a chance on the eve of a new millennium to 18 discuss your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 19 it offers and the direction it should take at the 20 national, regional and local levels. 21 942 Your comments will form part of the 22 public record which will be added to the record of the 23 public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull on 24 May 25th. 25 943 At this upcoming hearing, the StenoTran 234 1 commission will examine the CBC's application for the 2 renewal of its licences, including radio, television 3 and its specialty services, Newsworld and Le Réseau de 4 l'information. You can also take part in that public 5 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. 6 944 Now I would like to come back to 7 today's consultation. 8 945 Please allow me to introduce Carolyn 9 Pinsky, our legal counsel. Please feel free to call on 10 her with any questions that you might have about the 11 process today or any or matter. So that you will have 12 all the opportunity to speak, we ask that you please 13 limit your presentation to ten minutes. At the end of 14 this session, representatives from the local CBC 15 stations will have a chance to offer their views as 16 they are naturally very interested by the issues we are 17 discussing here today. 18 946 Before we start, I would ask Ms 19 Pinsky to go over some of the housekeeping matters 20 regarding the conduct of this consultation. 21 947 MS PINSKY: Thank you, Madam Chair. 22 First, I would invite anyone in the audience who wants 23 to take a seat at the table to feel free to come up and 24 to do so. I believe all of the persons who are here to 25 make presentations are already at the table. StenoTran 235 1 948 I will call each presenter and when 2 they are called, if you could please press the little 3 button on the microphone to ensure that the microphone 4 is on and that your presentation is transcribed 5 accurately. 6 949 We have translation services 7 available today and if anyone wishes to avail 8 themselves of them there are little devices around the 9 table and you can obtain one at the back of the table. 10 950 And, finally, I would like to note 11 that for those members of the public who are present 12 here today, but who do not wish to make oral 13 presentations, we do have comment sheets that you can 14 fill out and those sheets will be placed on the public 15 file. 16 951 With that, I think we will turn to 17 the first presenter, Ms Ingrid Nordhal. 18 952 MS NORDHAL: Good evening. 19 953 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 20 evening. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 954 MS NORDHAL: My name is Ingrid 23 Nordhal and I am here to speak up for the service that 24 CBC radio provides. I can remember sitting in our 25 kitchen as a child in grade 5 or 6 listening to farm StenoTran 236 1 reports, news, current affairs programs and drama, 2 radio dramas. 3 955 Many years later, I am listening to 4 news, radio dramas, comedy programs, weather, current 5 affairs programs and an eclectic mix of music all 6 presented by CBC Radio One or Two. 7 956 The CBC plays an important role in my 8 life. I have come to recognize the voices of the CBC's 9 regular broadcasters and entertainers over the years 10 and I look forward to these people to keep me company. 11 These people, whether they know it or not have become 12 my friends, mentors and teachers. When they leave for 13 other work, retirement or death I mourn their passing. 14 957 The idea of living in Canada without 15 this institution is too sad a prospect to consider and 16 I feel it is time I gave something back by coming here 17 today to explain to you why I feel we need to not only 18 keep but continue to support the CBC. 19 958 I would like to address the questions 20 provided in the outline of this hearing. How well does 21 the CBC fulfil its role as the national public 22 broadcaster? I have lived in three provinces and 23 travelled in nine provinces and one territory. I have 24 driven between Vancouver and Toronto many times and the 25 constant for all these experiences has been CBC radio. StenoTran 237 1 959 Whether in one of our large cities or 2 on the outskirts of the smallest of communities, you 3 are usually able to tune into the CBC AM station. As a 4 broadcaster, it is not only the CBC's availability, but 5 also its ability to provide intelligent, pertinent 6 information and entertainment to all our nation which 7 makes it successful as our national public broadcaster. 8 We have the great privilege of remaining informed of 9 not just will he call events but of access to quality, 10 national and international coverage regardless of where 11 we live in Canada. 12 960 I believe that one of the reasons 13 that Canadians are well received and respected around 14 the globe is the fact that even if you come from what 15 most people consider a wilderness out post, you have 16 the same access to the CBC as any of the large urban 17 centres. 18 961 We go out into the world with a broad 19 case of information about not just our community but 20 that of many nations and people. What small community 21 station could probably provide the national or 22 international coverage as effectively as the CBC? It 23 would be like trying to maintain the TransCanada 24 highway with only local community support. 25 962 For a nation as large and diverse as StenoTran 238 1 ours, we require a national vision and commitment to 2 provide this information link between all our regions. 3 963 Regarding the CBC's ability to 4 provide regional service, I feel, again, they do an 5 exemplary job by blending national, international and 6 community information. You are able to form 7 comprehensive ideas about the issues that affect your 8 community. 9 964 It is impossible to consider your 10 community as a closed system that does not interact 11 with the rest of the world. However, I do feel that we 12 need to be aware of our immediate community and the 13 people and events that shape it. The CBC has tailored 14 its coverage so that we receive the information most 15 frequently required by its inhabitants. 16 965 I am able to listen to news, traffic, 17 weather, et cetera, which affects me on a daily basis 18 followed by national programs without switching back 19 and forth between stations. I feel I get a clearer 20 picture of what larger forces are shaping events in my 21 community. 22 966 Should the CBC fulfil its role in the 23 new millennium in a different manner than it has in the 24 past? Yes and no. The basic role I feel the CBC has 25 and should fulfil is the linking of our nation and this StenoTran 239 1 I feel they do extremely well. 2 967 However, any entity that is unable or 3 unwilling to change is destined for ultimate failure. 4 968 I feel we must allow the CBC the 5 flexibility of experimentation in order to find its 6 best direction in fulfilling its mandate. We should 7 encourage its members to find new ways of gathering and 8 imparting information. We are seeing an explosion in 9 the development of communication technology and the CBC 10 should act like an icebreaker providing the nation with 11 a path of experience by breaking through with the use 12 of this new world of communication. 13 969 As we see our nation move slowly away 14 from a primarily resource-based economy, we will turn 15 more and more to the industries who have expertise in 16 developing ideas rather than just raw materials. 17 970 Should programming provided be 18 different from that provided by other broadcasters? I 19 wonder if the question should be should the CBC provide 20 the same inane chatter and repetitive playing of a few 21 pop songs interspersed with annoying advertising as 22 provided by other broadcasters. I will not demean 23 myself by answering this. 24 971 Is there a special role that the CBC 25 should play in the presentation of Canadian StenoTran 240 1 programming? Yes. 2 972 Why are Canadians so afraid to help 3 themselves? Why not allow our national broadcaster the 4 privilege of presenting Canadian talent? It seems that 5 the only time we appreciate the talent we have here in 6 Canada is when it leaves. Let us pride ourselves the 7 opportunity to develop and enjoy the wealth of talent 8 we have here. Perhaps by supporting Canadian talent we 9 will culturally enrich our nation to the point where 10 these same people will choose to stay here. 11 973 I have spoken about CBC radio and 12 have ignored CBC TV. It is not that I feel that CBC TV 13 cannot fulfil the same mandate as CBC radio, it is just 14 that I think it has been pushed too far to the brink of 15 mediocrity. Its responsibility to its advertisers does 16 not allow CBC TV to have a strong enough identity 17 amongst all the other stations. 18 974 I would love to see CBC TV rescued 19 from the clutches of commercialdom. However, I realize 20 at this time of limited funding this is not a feasible 21 expectation. 22 975 Let us focus on CBC radio, allow it 23 to maintain its place of excellence and by example in 24 time perhaps we can rescue its sister media. 25 976 The infrastructure of the CBC is StenoTran 241 1 already in place, although sorely neglected and held 2 together with the sparsest of support. We must 3 recognize the CBC's importance to the stability of 4 Canada. If we allow it to come apart, I believe, so 5 goes the nation. Canadians must exercise foresight in 6 these matters. It is not wise to consider the 7 resources or structure of our vast communications 8 industry and neighbour and apply it to our unique 9 institution. Let us recognize the value of the CBC and 10 offer it the support it deserves. Thank you. 11 977 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 12 you very much. 13 978 MS PINSKY: We have had several 14 people join us in the last five minutes. I would like 15 to invite everyone again if they want to take a seat 16 around the table and join us in the discussion. 17 979 The second presenter is Reverend 18 David Price. 19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 20 980 MR. PRICE: Madam Chairman, I am 21 honoured to be able to be here this evening. And my 22 comments echo in many ways that of the previous 23 speaker, Ms Nordhal, though we have never met. 24 981 My major focus is on radio. I am a 25 consumer and taxpayer for both television and radio but StenoTran 242 1 my own work takes me to be more of a consumer of CBC 2 radio, both Radio One, Radio Two and also the service 3 en français. 4 982 I have lived in six provinces of this 5 nation. I have lived on the Atlantic Ocean and in 6 central Canada in the Prairies and here now in British 7 Columbia. And, for myself, CBC radio is the glue that 8 brings us together. It is a reflection of the nation 9 as we are, a reflection of the nation of where we have 10 been and also where we are going. 11 983 As far as I am concerned, CBC radio 12 is vitally important to the health of our nation and it 13 saddens me that in this time it appears that CBC radio 14 is being under funded and is decaying because of lack 15 of resourcing. And I know it is not your role as the 16 CRTC, but I would hope that people will be animated to 17 move the pretty political process to restore funding to 18 the public broadcaster, for I believe it is sorely 19 needed. 20 984 I am concerned about the future, how 21 well will CBC service in the days ahead? I am 22 concerned that our nation is dumbing down, which means 23 that we are moving away from logical reflection to 24 another type of phase in our reality where we are 25 always emotionally responding to things and by stimuli StenoTran 243 1 and reasoned thought seems to be eroding. 2 985 I am afraid that we are coming to the 3 time of a dark age and not a time of enlightenment, but 4 at a time when we are looking in our midst to find our 5 enemies since the fall of the Soviet Union. And that 6 is reflected oftentimes in talk radio in the private 7 sector where there is a great deal of conservatism 8 voiced on the radio. 9 986 I also see the same thing in the 10 print media and to a lesser degree into the visual 11 media of television. But CBC in the midst of all of 12 this has managed to be a balanced reflector where it 13 does present various and alternate points of view and I 14 would hate to see this be eroded in the nation and I 15 want CBC to carry on with that. 16 987 I feel a little awkward in this 17 difficult time for them because of their many strikes 18 that they are facing to be kicking them when they are 19 down. But I am also concerned about duplication of 20 service, particularly with regard to Radio One. 21 988 I live in the midst of the Fraser 22 valley, in Abbotsford, and I represent a group of 23 people from there who receive no CBC radio service 24 without putting up antennas or at least with a lot of 25 effort to receive CBC Radio One because it is not StenoTran 244 1 available in the Mission-Abbotsford area. And yet it 2 is a part of this province where there are 250,000 3 people living there is a small repeater signal in 4 Chilliwack and the AM signal does not reach strongly 5 into our part of the Fraser Valley. 6 989 There is a duplication, however, 7 because Victoria has an FM station of their own, an AM 8 rebroadcasting on FM, plus CBC, CBU signal they overlay 9 each other even though one is the Vancouver studio and 10 the other is the Victoria studio and so they get double 11 service and we do not get any service. And I hope that 12 when the licence is renewed there will be some attempt 13 made to redefine the signal of CBU so that it comes 14 into the Fraser Valley in a stronger way so that the 15 250,000 people in the central Fraser Valley are served. 16 990 I would also hope for an increase of 17 signal for Radio Two, the classical FM service and also 18 an improved signal for the service in French because 19 Abbotsford has the remnant of a French community but 20 they do not receive any radio service. 21 991 As far as the future goes, and I said 22 earlier that it is the glue, I hope that CBC will also 23 be on the cutting edge of technological change. 24 Digital radio is coming in Europe, it is coming into 25 the United States, it should be coming here and I hope StenoTran 245 1 that CBC can find resources to both broadcast in 2 digital television and in digital radio. 3 992 It is a constant service or for our 4 past, for our present and for our future and I hope it 5 will continue to be strong in the new millennium. 6 Thank you. 7 993 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 8 you reverend, thank you. 9 994 MS PINSKY: Mr. Hugh Nevin. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 995 MR. NEVIN: I hope you do not mind my 12 also reading from a prepared script. I was going to 13 make a few notes, then I realized that I might not have 14 this opportunity ever again. I thought I better 15 something to refer to in case I forget to mention a 16 point or two. 17 996 It might seem as though I am jumping 18 around, but I hope there is a continuous train of 19 thought or thread to my points which are not 20 necessarily in order of importance. I will try to be 21 specific wherever I can. 22 997 Most of my comments, criticisms, 23 questions have to do exclusively with radio. I quit 24 watching CBC television for the same reason that I quit 25 watching television all together which is simply the StenoTran 246 1 commercial format. I have difficulty concentrating now 2 on any information, be it news, any entertainment which 3 is constantly interrupted with a sales pitch. In a 4 sense you could say I have been spoiled over the years 5 by CBC's non-commercial radio format. And just a 6 footnote in response to the argument that Canadian 7 television content cannot survive without commercial 8 advertising simply copying an obviously American style 9 of programming and then changing the geography could 10 not qualify that as Canadian content in my book. 11 998 From what I can tell there is 12 precious little different between Canadian and American 13 television. 14 999 If I was allowed to offer one single 15 bit of advice to the producers of Canadian television 16 it would be to try to be as distinctive and as 17 un-American as possible. 18 1000 I have given you a copy of the main 19 points that I am going to try to cover here. 20 1001 The first one, local traffic 21 reporting, which is a subset of a larger issue of 22 regional reporting in general. My question is why 23 bother to give continual traffic information when every 24 other commercial radio station does exactly the same 25 thing? I would have thought CBC might want to take the StenoTran 247 1 higher ground, in other words try to get people out of 2 their cars and on to rapid transit. 3 1002 I mean, this is a fundamental social 4 urban problem we are talking about, is it not? If CBC 5 wants to deal with the traffic problem, would it not 6 make more sense, would it not be more responsible to 7 give out rapid transit departure and arrival times in 8 the morning and afternoon? It is incredibly boring to 9 listen to even if you happen to be driving a car. 10 1003 I might be exaggerating here, but 11 sometimes it feels as if the morning and afternoon 12 shows are one continuous traffic report, the "call 13 Marty at star 69" show, interrupted every now and then 14 with an interview. Surely there are better reasons to 15 tune into CBC radio than to beat the traffic. 16 1004 Number two, regional programming. I 17 am divided on the issue of regional programming. 18 Because Canada is so large, I am not convinced that all 19 the critical issues can be addressed properly without 20 top quality regional programming. 21 1005 Some of the interviews on "Radio 22 Noon", for example, are as informative and entertaining 23 as anything broadcast nationally. The power of the 24 informative interview cannot be overestimated, 25 something that CBC does particularly well. StenoTran 248 1 1006 So once again, it is a relative thing 2 and I would argue that when compared with commercial 3 radio, CBC is head and shoulders above the rest. 4 1007 Three, sports, I have to declare my 5 bias here, I am from the Noam Chomsky school of 6 professional support. I am convinced that sports 7 coverage amounts to an enormous distraction where you 8 have incredibly exotic detailed forgettable information 9 which ultimately functions as fill. 10 1008 The question is, why does CBC feel 11 obligated to devote that much time to sports, five 12 minutes discussing a groin injury or a trade, for 13 example, especially when many other commercial radio 14 stations cater to the sports crowd? 15 1009 At one point I tried to look at this 16 question logically and wondered if, perhaps there is 17 not a hidden agenda behind sports coverage that I am 18 missing. In other words, is part of the drive behind 19 sports coverage the jobs at stake? Is the CBC 20 unconsciously protecting team owners, the people who 21 work in the stadiums, the huge investments tied up in 22 sports franchises all across the country? There is a 23 very deep level of indoctrination associated with 24 sports coverage that when you start to look closely is 25 completely illogical in my report. I know that the StenoTran 249 1 Juneau report years ago stated that the fixation on 2 sports especially hockey alienates millions of people. 3 1010 Number four, CBC's radio's larger 4 function mandate, free trade, globalization, downsizing 5 are all parts of the business agenda being aggressively 6 pedaled by the federal government as a means of 7 achieving a healthy society. 8 1011 What is really interesting is how 9 this vision of the future is taken for granted now. 10 You hear this again and again during interviews on 11 radio that supposedly offer disparate viewpoints from 12 members of the academic, corporate and political elites 13 of the expectation of the CBC is to allow for the 14 expression of view points that directly challenge 15 conventional wisdom, to expand the social discourse 16 wide enough so that many deeply held religious, 17 academic and political convictions are closely examined 18 and called to account. 19 1012 Number five, when is the appropriate 20 or legitimate comparison in terms of standards and 21 quality? I would argue that the short wave national 22 public radio comparison is the only meaningful 23 comparison. BBC, Radio Netherlands, Deutsch Villa, 24 even Voice of America, short wave radio is one of the 25 best kept secrets of the modern information age. StenoTran 250 1 1013 I would even go so far as to say that 2 one is not qualified to render a criticism of radio 3 until they have been exposed to what European short 4 wave national radio has to offer. 5 1014 While I am on the subject of short 6 wave radio, whoever thought up the over night program 7 to rebroadcast the best of these European stations is a 8 genius as far as I am concerned. The only problem is 9 that very few people are up at that time of the 10 morning. I often wish that it could be scheduled at 11 some other time, say from 1 to 5 Sunday afternoons. 12 1015 Six, the pop culture tidal wave and 13 the dumbing down of radio that the reverend referred 14 to, television culture has found its way into radio. 15 You can see this with a commensurate increase in 16 television coverage on radio. Listen some time to just 17 how often the subject of discussion on radio is CBC 18 television programming or even the latest popular 19 television sitcom. 20 1016 I know of the "Seinfeld" show not 21 from ever having seen a single episode, but through its 22 references on radio. I am always amazed when CBC news 23 is given a plug during an afternoon show whenever I 24 hear a host informing the listener what to expect on 25 the evening news. Do these people not realize that StenoTran 251 1 many people listen to the radio because they do not 2 listen to television and that especially includes news 3 coverage. 4 1017 The question is why would people with 5 even the mildest scepticism treat news information 6 seriously when it is utterly dependent on selling 7 things for its sponsors. Maybe I am missing something 8 here. 9 1018 Perhaps the best example of what I 10 would call a TV mentality finding its way into the CBC 11 radio is the program "Definitely Not the Opera". And I 12 admit I cannot stand the glib, superficial consciously 13 hip tone of the program. Perhaps it would not be quite 14 so noticeable if it was one instead of three or four 15 hours long. 16 1019 I do not expect CBC radio to cater to 17 what I would like to hear all the time and I appreciate 18 there are many different tastes and expectations people 19 have for radio but "Definitely Not the Opera" for my 20 money, is simply MTV on radio, a three-hour long 21 celebration of pop culture and a huge departure from 22 quality programming in my book. For me it represents a 23 big hole on Saturday afternoons and represents the 24 dumbing down of radio. The importing of one 25 superficial mentality from one medium to another. StenoTran 252 1 1020 Radio drama, number seven, if I had 2 to point to a weak link in CBC radio, it would be 3 drama. To get a sense of what high quality radio drama 4 sounds like, you have to turn to the BBC, the 5 presentation of some of the classics, for example, the 6 Dickens novels. I don't know if anyone caught Captain 7 Curley's "Mandolin" in 13 installments recently, but I 8 found myself transfixed with my ear up against the 9 speaker to catch every word. 10 1021 Recently CBC ran a weekly segment 11 called the "Dead Dog Cafe" which because of the frankly 12 terrible quality of acting did a terrible service not 13 only to the radio drama in general but to the 14 aboriginal community as well. 15 1022 If the corporation is concerned about 16 providing high quality aboriginal content, they might 17 within the to determine why the program "Our Native 18 Land" was taken off the air years ago. I would argue 19 that that show was highly informative and an original 20 creative presentation of aboriginal issues. 21 1023 "Rumours and Borders", the long 22 running serial comedy the acting of which I always 23 thought was dreadful it reminded me of a cheap American 24 sitcom transferred into a radio format. Has legions of 25 fans, some of whom I know, but what is interesting is StenoTran 253 1 that are they not familiar with high quality radio 2 drama. They are not aware of the existence of short 3 wave radio, it is like the expression the land of the 4 blind, ignorance is bliss. The yardstick, the standard 5 you use for comparison is the important thing. 6 1024 The Canadian content requirement. I 7 find the cheerleader approach to Canadian content a 8 little embarrassing, quite frankly I am always 9 surprised whenever there is a program, often a phone-in 10 program promoting the latest Canadian literature. 11 1025 When I read a book the last thing I 12 am concerned about is the nationality of the author. 13 Like any other art form a book should be read because 14 is good. First and foremost there is an implicit 15 obligation between literature and patriotic duty. 16 1026 At the risk of appearing unpatriotic, 17 I would argue that many celebrities, entertainers in a 18 sense get a free ride. There seems to be a fear on the 19 part of the corporation being constructively critical 20 and let us be honest, there is some dreadful derivative 21 award winning material that only gets heard or seen 22 because of the fact that it is aggressively promoted 23 and marketed. There is a merger between the music and 24 fashion industry that is cheapening talent in my book. 25 1027 I would argue that in the head long StenoTran 254 1 rush to market Canadian talent we have lost our 2 critical judgment along the way. And I think in the 3 long run this does a real disservice to the whole issue 4 of standards and quality. There seems to be an 5 unconscious fear of offending the Canadian or artist 6 particular establishment and appearing unpatriotic. 7 Often I get the feeling that we are attempting to 8 out-do the Americans at their own game. 9 1028 The accusation of elitism. I heard 10 someone say at one of the hearings I think it was 11 television he was referring to reminded him of a 12 perpetual test pattern. If you extend that analogy to 13 CBC radio, I would argue that the situation is reversed 14 is 80 degrees. 15 1029 One of the great ironies of the 16 information age with all its sophisticated technologies 17 is the overwhelming degree of uniformity. I would 18 argue that this homogeneity is a reflection of the 19 marketing mentality itself, pop culture being the best 20 example, invading and devaluing the whole concept of 21 quality and substance. 22 1030 I heard someone else during one of 23 the hearings use a booze analogy, something about 24 single malt whiskey and acquired taste. If what he was 25 getting at was the subject of elitism, then one should StenoTran 255 1 never be apologetic about having elitist tastes in art 2 and culture. The best comment I have ever heard about 3 elitism is that it should be directed at getting every 4 one to become elitist at the same time. 5 1031 That brings me to the end of my 6 points here. Thanks. 7 --- Applause / Applaudissements 8 1032 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 9 you very much, Mr. Nevin. 10 1033 MS PINSKY: Mr. Robert Kerr. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 1034 MR. KERR: Thank you. It is a 13 pleasure for me to be here it is a pleasure to speak 14 before the council. 15 1035 Just a little bit of background to 16 kind of say where I am coming from. I work within the 17 arts community in Vancouver I am the executive director 18 of the Coastal Jazz and Blues Society, which is a 19 non-profit society here in Vancouver. We produce the 20 annual du Maurier International Jazz Festival in 21 Vancouver as well as a number of other events in 22 Vancouver throughout the year. 23 1036 I also have a 20-year history in 24 radio, having been involved in university radio, 25 Vancouver co-op radio, and also having worked the for a StenoTran 256 1 couple of years at the late lamented CJAZ-FM. So I 2 have a real interest and passion for radio as well as I 3 guess one could say a professional or cultural 4 interest. 5 1037 One of the things as a result of 6 working in the arts community, I've been lucky to -- we 7 have been lucky to be able to collaborate with the CBC 8 locally in terms of helping us to communicate to the 9 public about different cultural events including the 10 jazz festival and as a result of that, it has been my 11 privilege I think to get inside the CBC to a certain 12 extent to actually meet the people who make it happen, 13 work with them, get inside the big monolith on Georgia 14 and Hamilton and kind of see how it works and see what 15 the facilities are. 16 1038 As a result of being a listener and a 17 producer within the community and having different 18 perspectives, I think that there is no question in my 19 mind that one of the key things about the CBC is that 20 it is an integral component of Canadian cultural 21 policy, a real key tool in developing culture in 22 Canada. And my huge concern -- I am just -- I don't 23 know, on the verge of outrage at the way that it is 24 just being dismantled and destroyed. 25 1039 It just seems to me that we are StenoTran 257 1 squandering an incredible national resource here that 2 has been built up for decades and we are at the point 3 of bleeding it dry and you just have to walk through 4 the building at 700 Hamilton Street and people's 5 energies are just completely sapped. Their morale is 6 very, very low. And one cannot blame them. 7 1040 I mean there may have been a time at 8 the CBC where there were too many people with their 9 hands on the dials and perhaps, you know, a certain 10 amount of overstaffing in terms of, you know, 11 production and we have heard the complaints from 12 commercial producers and commercial radio stations in 13 the past saying: Well, there is five CBC operators for 14 every private sector operator. I think that is an over 15 statement, but I think that is and now is -- the 16 pendulum has swung far too much in the other direction, 17 to the point where the programs that still are on the 18 air are just barely hanging on because the people who 19 were producing them were stretched beyond the limit. 20 And it is not only, I think, a lack of utilization of 21 the personnel and the human resources there in taxing 22 the human resources, I think it is what is happening 23 now as well is this incredible underutilization of the 24 fiscal resources that the CBC owns. There are 25 remarkable studios within the building at 700 Hamilton StenoTran 258 1 Street. It blows my mind quite honestly, the quality 2 of the equipment, the quality of the equipment, 3 gorgeous concert grand pianos and they sit silent most 4 of the time. And we have a remarkably vibrant artistic 5 community that is crying to be heard and there are so 6 few opportunities for local artists and local artists 7 in every region of this country to have their voice 8 heard through media, whether that is radio or 9 television or, you know, I mean the Internet is helping 10 democratize things, but it is still difficult to 11 communicate on any kind of a large scale. 12 1041 And the CBC has the resources and 13 they have the physical resources they have the studios, 14 the talent is out there. I think a lot of the talent 15 at CBC right now has been burned out. And if many of 16 the people have left simply because they cannot deal 17 with the situation, they cannot put up with the 18 situation that they are being forced to work under. 19 1042 If we are serious about carrying on 20 the national resource that is the contribution and 21 making it work, we have to really reinvest in it. And 22 I think that means reinvesting in the people and, you 23 know, the creative energies that make it all work. 24 1043 I really think that there needs to be 25 an injection of new blood, if you will, into the CBC. StenoTran 259 1 There is an awful lot of creative people in this 2 country and, you know, great ideas and I think many of 3 those ideas, you know, die on the vine. There are not 4 the opportunities certainly in commercial radio and 5 commercial television for anything truly interesting to 6 get out there. It definitely appeals to the lowest 7 common denominator. 8 1044 And with the CBC, we have this 9 opportunity and it is been proven in the past that we 10 can create really great programming. Canadians can put 11 together amazing productions in both radio and 12 television that are award winning, that capture 13 audiences and that do not have to pander, you know, to 14 the commercial bottom line. 15 1045 You know, commercial radio in 16 Vancouver is abysmal. It is really abysmal. It serves 17 like a really narrow segment of the population and 18 everyone's chasing the same, you know, few corporate 19 advertisers to underwrite their programming and, you 20 know, it is dictated by program directors to look at 21 "Billboard Magazine" and try to figure out what are the 22 top hits in pop or in country or in adult oriented 23 radio or something really amorphous like that. 24 1046 And it is really -- commercial radio 25 is definitely not the kind of model we should try to StenoTran 260 1 apply to the CBC of the CBC, in my estimation can serve 2 an enormous segment of the population that falls out of 3 that target audience of commercial radio and I think 4 there is a huge audience out there. 5 1047 There is an enormous audience and 6 people look to the CBC for that and kind of expect it. 7 1048 And I think it's what is happening 8 now is people are turning into the CBC and saying, you 9 know, it really does not sound as good as it used to 10 and the programming, you know, used to be better, or 11 there used to be more diversity on the CBC, used to be 12 more relevant to my community. 13 1049 And I think the reason that people 14 are feeling that way and the programming is suffering 15 is clearly because of the cuts. There is no question 16 about it. There has to be a strategic plan applied to 17 the CBC that really looks to the big picture and does 18 not just look at the bottom line and looks at how to 19 move to thing forward into the next century and to take 20 advantage of it. I mean Sheila Copps has spent a lot 21 of time and energy, you know, focusing on the magazine 22 industry of late. She could put a heck of a lot of 23 time and energy into the CBC and I think produce much 24 stronger results for Canadian culture and Canadian 25 identity, quote/unquote, as a result of it. StenoTran 261 1 1050 It really is a cultural tool and I do 2 not think we need to pander to the Americans, I do not 3 think we need to copy the Americans and quite frankly I 4 do not think we need to be afraid of the Americans as 5 far as their culture and music and popular art forms 6 are concerned. I welcome American culture in many 7 different ways because there is a huge diversity that 8 falls outside of mainstream American media and I think 9 we can reflect the strengths of our community through 10 the CBC. 11 1051 In terms of the issue of national and 12 regional broadcasting and regional programming, I think 13 there is a real lack of regional programming currently, 14 particularly on radio and, well, television as well 15 obviously. 16 1052 I think much more could be done 17 regionally to reflect the diversity of our country, the 18 diversity of our communities and I think that extends 19 to different cultural organizations, different 20 community groups and that it relates to CBC Radio Two 21 most of the programs are national, almost all of the 22 programs are national programs. And they are 23 reasonably good quality programs, but there is a real 24 sameness about it. 25 1053 I think that we can look to the StenoTran 262 1 regions to provide more diversity and more diversity of 2 styles. I have got nothing against classical music but 3 I have declared my bias for jazz and there is an 4 incredible amount of music that falls outside the 5 parameters of western European classical music. 6 1054 And I think that many, many people 7 are interested in hearing that kind of diversity. And 8 if CBC wants to reach out to people under the age of 50 9 and to people, you know, of different ethnic and 10 cultural backgrounds, I think they have to start 11 looking really seriously at, you know, the broad scope 12 of programming they are presenting. 13 1055 And I know there are many fine music 14 producers of all shapes and sizes that would love the 15 opportunity to produce a regional or a national program 16 on CBC and obviously there has to be some coherence 17 about it, but I really think that that issue of 18 diversity should be addressed. And I think that is 19 happening also as a result of the hard times that is 20 hitting the CBC is that it is becoming too 21 conservative. I do not see the CBC taking the same 22 kind of risks that it used to or the kind of risks that 23 they should be taking. They should be taking chances. 24 They should not be playing it safe. And, you know, it 25 is the forum for taking risks and making mistakes. You StenoTran 263 1 do not want to produce subpar programming but you can 2 produce programming that maybe it is a little too far 3 out there or on the edge but take a chance with it and 4 see where it goes, try to develop something and, you 5 know, maybe it is not prime time, but a good example 6 would be a show, "Nightlines", you know, David Wisden's 7 program, great show, tonnes of people listen to it and 8 it is not there any more. 9 1056 I do not know the exact reason why 10 that is, but I would suspect that the cuts have had 11 something to do with that. And there are a lot of 12 different programs that have suffered as a result of 13 that. 14 1057 Certainly the number of live 15 recordings at different Canadian cultural events, music 16 events have suffered greatly because of the cuts and 17 that is where you hear what is going on, what is out 18 there. 19 1058 I have probably rambled on long 20 enough, but I believe in the CBC and what it means to 21 this country and I hope we have the guts to support it. 22 1059 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 23 Certainly there is no doubt in our mind that you are a 24 supporter. 25 1060 MS PINSKY: Mr. Sid Tan. StenoTran 264 1 1061 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Good 2 evening, sir. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 1062 MR. TAN: I would like to thank the 5 commissioners for the opportunity to address you in 6 person in this beautiful City of Vancouver. I would 7 also like to thank all the folks who encouraged me to 8 come to this public consultation and I would especially 9 like to thank Margaret Vogel and Bob Stark for the 10 assistance they have lent me on this issue and other 11 issues. 12 1063 In many countries, public 13 consultation participation for what passes for public 14 consultation imperils your existence, particularly if 15 you disagree with the government. I am pleased to be 16 at these consultations because I am a Canadian and I 17 wish to contribute. We are in freedom where freedom of 18 speech and ideas are Charter rights. It is my public 19 duty to participate and to build a better Canada. 20 1064 However, I approach these 21 consultations with a wariness. I have seen over the 22 past two years the CRTC hand control of community 23 television to corporations, while I ask the 24 commissioners to protect and strengthen community 25 television and to assist our local television StenoTran 265 1 production cooperative in the downtown east side. I 2 often ask myself if the C in CRTC stands for corporate 3 or Canadian. 4 1065 Today it is about the Canadian 5 Broadcasting Corporation, Canada's public broadcaster. 6 The service that you and I pay taxes for. It should be 7 noted that in countries with totalitarian governments, 8 civilian and military, basic human rights are lacking 9 and the public broadcaster is very often the state 10 broadcaster as well. 11 1066 My comments about the CBC will be 12 brief. There is a great need for a national public 13 service broadcaster as there is for local community 14 broadcasters. By this I mean committed public funds 15 without application of commercial principles and 16 program determination. If this means supporting a well 17 funded national CBC and a volunteer driven community 18 television in the downtown east side, I would not 19 disagree. 20 1067 But we are talking about the CBC and 21 I said I would be brief. Simply put, CBC radio is 22 wonderful. I listen to CBC AM all the time. English 23 language CBC TV has too many commercials. I will 24 discuss this later. 25 1068 I never watch or listen to CBC French StenoTran 266 1 because I do not understand French. However, I am 2 prepared to support the idea of a national bilingual 3 public service broadcaster with my tax dollars. I am 4 also prepared to participate, but how can I? 5 1069 In my opinion, the Canadian 6 Broadcasting Corporation, the idea has not been able to 7 build on the public support and willingness to 8 participate across the country. Locally, when Rogers 9 community -- when Rogers Cablesystems closed their 10 Vancouver neighbourhood television office, community 11 groups and activists volunteered their time to reach a 12 new partnership. Together we formed the CMES, the 13 community media education society and ICTE, independent 14 community television, so that broadcast television 15 would always be accessible to our community, the 16 downtown east side. 17 1070 How can supporters of a national 18 public broadcaster contribute their skills, their 19 talents and resources toward a better broadcasting 20 corporation? I would like to thank Rogers Cablesystems 21 for entering into this partnership to strengthen 22 community television particularly Vera Puccini, Rob 23 Carver, Nancy Anderson, Ron Fischer, Tracey Major, Anne 24 Hickey and Jim Doran. 25 1071 I wish to put these in for the record StenoTran 267 1 because it seems in these public consultations that is 2 all that remains when they are finished, a record. 3 1072 I have made the case for community 4 television over the years and they are in the record. 5 And I hope that the CRTC and its commissioners will 6 look at that some day. 7 1073 As I said, CBC TV has too many 8 commercials and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 9 has no way for the public to participate. This is not 10 surprising, considering the decline of public service 11 broadcasting is a local -- is a logical consequence of 12 the worldwide adoption of market and commercial values 13 as superior regulators of the global economy, 14 globalization and unsustainable community economy which 15 belittles and attacks public service institutions and 16 values. 17 1074 This corporate political economy 18 drives our democracy towards a system where capital is 19 no longer political and widespread public cynicism is 20 the norm. I believe we have this now with the advance 21 of APEC, the MAI and NAFTA. 22 1075 This is an attack on our democracy 23 and strengthening national and community public service 24 broadcasters could, perhaps, correct a situation. It 25 is certainly worth the try. StenoTran 268 1 1076 It is reasonable that public 2 participation and accountability to a legal citizenry 3 should be the first and foremost in the consideration 4 of a public service broadcast system. 5 1077 Is it possible for these issues to be 6 discussed in the public arena when the commercial media 7 system is so interlinked with this corporate political 8 economy? Will we hear issues of media reform? 9 1078 As I said, too many commercials, no 10 way to participate. I ask the CRTC and the Canadian 11 Broadcasting Corporation to consider how citizens can 12 be involved in media reform in an environment of 13 corporate consumerism also known as globalization and 14 the neo-liberal agenda. I believe a commitment to 15 actual participatory democracy requires issues of 16 broadcasting and media ownership and control to be 17 public issues subject to public examination and public 18 debate. 19 1079 Again, does the C in CRTC stand for 20 corporate or Canadian? 21 1080 With what I have seen done with 22 community television in the past year, I fear for the 23 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. However, I have 24 belief and hope in Canada and its people. We Canadians 25 are the final judge and we can make our effort work. StenoTran 269 1 1081 Canadians, I believe, will support 2 national and public service broadcasters if we can ever 3 get our message out. Thank you. 4 --- Applause / Applaudissements 5 1082 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 6 you, sir. 7 1083 MS PINSKY: Mr. Douglas Hogg. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 1084 MR. HOGG: Thank you for giving me 10 this opportunity to speak. I have not taken an 11 opportunity previously to stand up and speak publicly 12 on a matter of public policy. 13 1085 I think I was motivated doubly this 14 time. I had written the 1-800 number from an ad on the 15 radio, a commercial radio station and but it was the 16 comments of the disk jockey announcer that really 17 motivated me. He said, "Can you imagine that on the 18 CBC they get away with all that talk, talk, talk, no 19 commercial station could ever get away with that." And 20 I felt like phoning him up and saying, "That is the 21 point. That is exactly the point." 22 1086 Now, you can gather from that that I 23 do listen to commercial radio when I want my mind to go 24 to sleep, when I want to be dumbed down, as the 25 reverend said, and I do not restrict myself to any one StenoTran 270 1 of them, I have four or five, I have to because I have 2 several children and each one listens to a different 3 station, I listen to different stations. That is fine. 4 But when I want to be informed, when I want to be 5 stimulated, when I want to be smarter when I finish 6 than when I started, there is only one place, there is 7 only one choice. 8 --- Applause / Applaudissements 9 1087 MR. HOGG: Radio One or Radio Two. 10 And it is not CBC TV, I can assure you of that. 11 1088 Now, I asked my two teenage sons I 12 told them I was coming here and I said what do you 13 think I should say to this commission and the 14 year 14 old said: We need more of the "Royal Canadian 15 Airfarce" I am with him on that. 16 1089 And the 16 year old said he wants 17 programs which explore political issues of the day but 18 he wants them where the politicians have to answer, not 19 go around in circles. 20 1090 I did not think he was a very good 21 student, but he is obviously doing much better than I 22 thought. 23 1091 I am not sure which program would 24 have more comedy to it. 25 1092 Now, the first question that was StenoTran 271 1 suggested we address was how well does the CBC fulfil 2 its role. Well, I thought about that and then I 3 thought: "I am going to find out what its role is or 4 what the corporation thinks its role is." Now, I got on 5 the website, I got on the Internet. I went around the 6 website, I did not find anything that told me what the 7 CBC thought its role was. So I cannot measure it gets 8 that against that. Nothing that resembles a mission 9 statement. 10 1093 So I said the next best thing, get on 11 the telephone, you get press one for this, press two 12 for that, eventually you get to where it says there is 13 no new information on that and it hangs up on you. So 14 I think that the CBC is in serious trouble because they 15 do not know where they are going and that is reflected 16 first in television and perhaps in some other areas. 17 1094 I have found the secret to the 18 funding crisis. I will get to that. 19 1095 It is obvious from the presentation 20 that is have been made here that CBC serves different 21 purposes for different people and I think that is 22 wonderful. There is a little tension between different 23 people because they have different ideas about what 24 they want. That is great if the CBC can meet that. 25 1096 What I can say is that if you do not StenoTran 272 1 like "DNTO", then listen to the opera. Sometimes I do. 2 And sometimes I listen to "DNTO" because I want someone 3 intelligent to present to me what my kids are listening 4 to and I can't go to MTV and listen to it because it 5 gives me a headache. It is a little fun, I listen to 6 in an hour on Saturday when the opera is not to my 7 liking because I do not understand the language or 8 whatever. 9 1097 So, but I have to tell you that over 10 the years, I am beginning to like opera. And it is 11 taken a long time I am sorry, Mr. Kerr seems to have 12 left, but maybe I will learn to like jazz eventually if 13 we get enough of that on there. 14 1098 I grew up as did Ms Nordhal, I grew 15 up with the CBC on. And it is actually a unifying 16 influence in the home. Not only do my children know 17 what is on CBC radio, my parents do, too. I can talk 18 to them about characters. They love Allan McPhee. 19 Well, you know, he is a little old for me, but you 20 know, I love Fire Side Al. You know, and my kids, they 21 like "Airfarce". 22 1099 And they know about Mike from 23 Canmore. And I hope he comes to see you in Calgary. 24 1100 This is the kind of thing that 25 families, we do not literally sit around the Marconi as StenoTran 273 1 in the painting, but it is that sense that we are 2 together in something, we can listen to something 3 together and nobody is getting a headache and nobody is 4 getting offended by the language and nobody is telling 5 you what to think. They are just presenting to you 6 something that is very interesting, new, that is on a 7 family basis. 8 1101 But also, this happens across the 9 country. I have lived in four provinces. CBC is there 10 in all of them. When you -- regional programming may 11 differ, but some of that regional programming is picked 12 up and it is interesting to have the sense of Canada 13 that is presented when you listen to what are the 14 concerns of people in St. John's Newfoundland and what 15 are the concerns of people in Etobicoke that -- only 16 the CBC is doing. The other stations give you the 17 13-second sound bite. That is not helpful. 13 seconds 18 of news, followed by one minute of ads, that is not 19 helpful. 20 --- Applause / Applaudissements 21 1102 MR. HOGG: I was going to say that 22 something was once said that CBC is too centrist and I 23 think that is a concern that may happen if the dollars 24 keep getting cut because you have to program centrally. 25 1103 I have not noticed a particular StenoTran 274 1 centrist bias on the CBC programming that I listen to 2 on the radio. 3 1104 For a good view point on that, I 4 would just suggest you listen to the program "The Great 5 Eastern", which was aired two weeks ago in which the 6 supposed Broadcasting Corporation of Newfoundland 7 discussed all of the Newfoundlanders who were employed 8 by the CBC and how they are biased and they gave too 9 much coverage to Newfoundland issues. 10 1105 If you live in central Canada you 11 will enjoy it even more than I did, I am sure. 12 1106 Now, I just want to comment about CBC 13 TV because I would like others have expressed here, I 14 have stopped watching TV and CBC TV is not the 15 exception. I used to watch CBC news, the regulations 16 regarding Canadian content went up so what they did is 17 stretch 15 minutes of news to 90 minutes and they 18 started moving it around and they lost me and they 19 seemed to have more ads, there we seem to be in a 20 centrist bias. So I like the half-hour news format on 21 the radio. I get what I need to know. 22 1107 It may be that the TV service is a 23 more expensive service to run. It would seem that that 24 would be reasonable and it may be that the idea of 25 having a commercial component to it originated because StenoTran 275 1 of the expense of providing TV to locations where it 2 was not commercially viable. If that is the case or if 3 there is some rationale for the commercialization of 4 it, I think that the day has passed. We're now in the 5 days of satellites. CBC is not the only station 6 available in any location in Canada that I am aware of. 7 You may hear differently. Therefore, I do not think 8 that there is any justification for having a commercial 9 content on that service whatsoever. 10 1108 I would like to see a non-commercial 11 TV service that is like the PBS service in the United 12 States and is perhaps linked to them, sharing programs 13 and resources. I would like to see a service that 14 perhaps is funded by fees on the other commercial 15 services so that they might be released from some of 16 their Cancom regulations and let CBC take the lead roll 17 there and then CBC can market its programs to other 18 like-minded services such as the BBC, such as PBS, the 19 Australian broadcasting corporation, in much the way 20 that PBS does now they have an excellent service and we 21 know that Canadians support those stations because 22 those border stations tell us that 30 to 40 per cent of 23 their contributions come from Canadians. Surveys tell 24 us that Canadians are big supporters, they are willing 25 to pay to have quality service. I do not think many StenoTran 276 1 Canadians are willing to pay to have CTV today. 2 1109 My suggestion is that either make CBC 3 TV relevant or get rid of it. And when we get rid of 4 it, give the money to CBC radio because they are doing 5 a good job and they will continue to do a good job as 6 long as we support them. Thank you for listening to me 7 today. 8 1110 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 9 you, Mr. Hogg. 10 1111 MS PINSKY: Ms Elsie Jang. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 1112 MS JANG: Thank you for the 13 opportunity to speak to you tonight. My comments and 14 views largely pertain to CBC radio. I have to tell you 15 that I really enjoyed the CBC radio. I used to be a 16 real fan of AM, but now as they call it Radio Two I 17 find that I am tuning into that a lot. 18 1113 I think I was first introduced to the 19 CBC at another time when I was going to Simon Fraser 20 and I would then have the opportunity to listen to 21 Peter Gzosky in the morning and I very much enjoyed the 22 exposure, I suppose, to the various areas of Canada and 23 to listen to him as he spoke to people from the 24 Maritimes and things. 25 1114 I really have very fond memories of StenoTran 277 1 that. And so I think that I see the CBC as knitting 2 together or weaving the various strands of the country. 3 1115 As someone who came from an immigrant 4 background, I also found the CBC at that time able to 5 fill in for me, I suppose either Canadian content or 6 various bits of Canadiana, things that you may normally 7 learn at home, but I obviously did not learn them. So 8 in that respect I appreciate the CBC radio as well. 9 1116 As the other -- the previous speaker 10 talked about Allan McPhee, I always think of jelly gin 11 when I think of him now, or whatever. 12 1117 And "As It Happens", I get a chuckle 13 out of their so many miles or whatever from reading. 14 1118 I guess, on another note, and this 15 would have been years ago, I remember they would 16 broadcast and I think this is on Saturdays morning, but 17 "Something from Old Crow" and I think it was Josie, 18 some -- I don't know, a native or -- I would enjoy 19 those. 20 1119 So there were a number of things that 21 I think that the CBC is not doing as much any more and 22 I do not want to just get sentimental and hearken back, 23 well we should always do these things. I think what 24 they are doing well now, I really enjoy Stuart McLean. 25 I believe that he is a very good story teller. He is a StenoTran 278 1 good writer. I don't know which one takes precedence 2 but he is very good at what he does. I miss Clyde 3 Gilmore as I am sure many do. I really appreciate the 4 research that goes into the pieces on Sunday mornings. 5 And I like the ideas program. 6 1120 I think the other thing I would like 7 to say about the CBC is the ethnicity issue I also 8 looked at some of these questions and I suppose in 9 trying to respond to the last one, what role should the 10 CBC play in the presentation of programming, in trying 11 to answer that, I feel that with the changing 12 demographics in Canada, the one thing I would really 13 like to see more of is more ethnicity and that can 14 take, I think, a number of concepts. 15 1121 One particular program that I 16 remember hearing in 1996 and this was a Thanksgiving 17 Day, and it was on the radio and I found it absolutely 18 captivating. It was a story about a Japanese writer. 19 I found out that he, in '94 won a Nobel Prize for 20 literature. The story, the way it was being related 21 as, was, as I said, really quite mesmerizing. But it 22 was about this writer and how his life is and he and 23 his wife had a son who was I think hearing impaired. 24 And they talked about that and how they discovered that 25 he was able to hear and he is now a musician or a StenoTran 279 1 composer of some note. And I thought that that was a 2 very, very apartment story to hear on Thanksgiving Day 3 and it was a very moving story. 4 1122 I would like to just comment in terms 5 of other things. I agree with, I think, an earlier 6 speaker when he talked about the Saturday Radio One 7 programming. I do not particularly like it either, so 8 I like the other gentleman, I sometimes give the opera 9 a listen, but then maybe that is one when you could 10 listen to your CDs or you are out doing your things on 11 Saturday but maybe that is when they could do some of 12 their world music programming. I really think there is 13 room for world music to build that in. 14 1123 I also look to the CBC to be 15 different from the commercial broadcasters. I noticed, 16 for example, recently with the passing of Jack Webster, 17 there was scarcely a mention on some of the other 18 programs because we particularly listen to some of the 19 news to see how they would address it. There was 20 hardly anything to acknowledge this person whereas the 21 CBC, despite the strike, they did give him some time to 22 recognize this person. 23 1124 I am also concerned with the news at 24 times. During this past year or maybe six months ago, 25 during the Clinton issue I was concerned a number of StenoTran 280 1 times when the CBC repeatedly -- and I think this was 2 on radio, would lead off with news about Clinton. To 3 do with the Lewinsky thing. I mean, I do not mind if 4 it is Clinton with a world affair item, but as a 5 Canadian, I just did not feel I wanted to buy into 6 that. 7 1125 I also feel, as someone else 8 mentioned, that perhaps the CBC is getting too safe and 9 conservative. I have noticed that the "Cross-Country 10 Checkup", I used to rather enjoy listening to it and I 11 don't anymore. I find that their questions are too -- 12 they are way too pat and they feed into had a 13 mentality, a line of thinking that I find does not 14 really serve as well. 15 1126 I guess as a final comment I remember 16 in the 1970s, somewhere in the 1970s there was a 17 mandate I believe by the CRTC that CBC should be 18 devoting more to Canadian content and there were a lot 19 of moans and groans about, "Oh, gosh, we do not want to 20 hear any more Glen Campbell or whatever." 21 1127 And yet I am wondering if there 22 cannot be, if there is some connection between that 23 ruling and the fact that today, what is it, 50 or 20 24 years later that so many Canadian artists are now 25 walking away with awards, be it Shania Twain or Alannis StenoTran 281 1 Morrisette, or Celine Dion. They are walking away with 2 awards, not in Canada, but in the United States. Is 3 there a connection? 4 1128 There are things that we moan and 5 grown about, but we need to look at what the effects 6 will be 10 or 20 years down the road. 7 1129 In conclusion, then, I would like to 8 say, as a taxpayer, I will always willingly give my 9 money to the CBC, particularly in connection with the 10 radio programming. I am not so crazy about the TV, but 11 I guess like the other gentleman said, I, too, like the 12 "Airfarce". 13 --- Applause / Applaudissements 14 1130 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 15 you. So we will put you down as a supporter, too. 16 1131 MS PINSKY: Madame Nicole Hennessy. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 1132 M. PAQUIN: Madame Nicole Hennessy ne 19 peut être ici ce soir, je suis Alain Paquin du Conseil 20 scolaire, là, c'est moi qui lirai la présentation. 21 1133 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Bonsoir. 22 1134 M. PAQUIN: Bonsoir. 23 1135 Alors, le Conseil scolaire 24 francophone de la Colombie-Britannique a été créé par 25 le gouvernement de la Colombie-Britannique le 2 StenoTran 282 1 novembre 1995, dans le but d'offrir des programmes et 2 des services éducatifs valorisant le plein 3 épanouissement et l'identité culturelle des apprenantes 4 et apprenants francophones de la Province. 5 1136 De plus, le Conseil s'engage à 6 participer activement au développement de la 7 collectivité francophone de la Colombie-Britannique. 8 1137 Le Conseil scolaire a la 9 responsabilité du programme francophone offert dans 10 cinquante établissements à travers la province. 11 Quoique dix d'entre ses programmes soient à ce jour 12 offerts dans des écoles francophones homogènes, la 13 majorité côtoie le programme d'immersion et, ou, le 14 programme anglophone. 15 1138 Il y a, au total, vingt-cinq 16 programmes du niveau élémentaire, vingt-trois 17 programmes du niveau secondaire et deux écoles qui 18 combinent les deux cycles. Selon les statistiques du 19 ministère de l'Éducation, près de 2 900 élèves 20 fréquentent le programme francophone en 21 Colombie-Britannique, ce qui représente une 22 augmentation substantielle de 18 % depuis l'année 23 scolaire précédente. 24 1139 Les prévisions du Conseil scolaire 25 francophone en terme d'effectif-élèves permettent StenoTran 283 1 d'estimer la population étudiante aux alentours de 2 5 000 ou 6 000 élèves d'ici cinq ans. 3 1140 Alors que les premiers conseillers et 4 les premières conseillères scolaires définissaient la 5 mission du Conseil scolaire en 1996, ils et elles ont 6 consciemment inclus les notions de valorisation de 7 l'identité culturelle des apprenantes et des apprenants 8 francophones, ainsi que celles d'une participation 9 active au développement de la communauté francophone de 10 la Province. 11 1141 Cet engagement signifie que le 12 Conseil scolaire croit fermement qu'il est nécessaire 13 de développer des partenariats avec tous les organismes 14 qui se donnent pour mission la promotion de la culture 15 française afin d'enrichir l'environnement de l'élève. 16 1142 J'aimerais remercier le CRTC et les 17 commissaires présents ce soir, d'avoir permis au 18 Conseil scolaire francophone de participer à cette 19 consultation publique afin de témoigner de l'importance 20 du rôle de la Société Radio-Canada dans l'éducation des 21 élèves et de préciser ses besoins et ses attentes en 22 terme de programmation et d'acitivité régionale ou 23 locale. 24 1143 En terme de programmation jeunesse à 25 la télévision et à la radio, j'aimerais souligner StenoTran 284 1 l'impact positif des émissions produites en 2 collaboration avec les écoles et qui mettent les élèves 3 à contribution. L'émission télévisuelle "Clandestin" 4 est un bon exemple, puisqu'elle est produite avec la 5 participation des élèves au niveau du texte, de la mise 6 en scène et du jeu devant les caméras. 7 1144 De plus, des initiatives spéciales 8 entourant les émissions radio telles que "275 Allo et 9 275 Ados" sont également bien reçues et contribuent de 10 manière significative à la promotion des produits de la 11 Société Radio-Canada auprès du jeune public francophone 12 de la Colombie-Britannique. 13 1145 D'ailleurs, le Conseil scolaire 14 collabore à la promotion de ces émissions et de ces 15 initiatives spéciales à travers le réseau des 16 programmes francophones. Cependant, il est déplorable 17 de constater que ni la télévision ni la radio de la 18 Société Radio-Canada n'est diffusée sur l'ensemble de 19 la Province, privant de ce fait, une partie des jeunes 20 des bénéfices et des services offerts par le diffuseur 21 public national. Le Conseil scolaire francophone de la 22 Colombie-Britannique se joint aux autres intervenants 23 pour demander une diffusion complète et équitable à 24 travers la Province. 25 1146 Malheureusement, suite aux dernières StenoTran 285 1 coupures, la radio de la Société Radio-Canada en 2 Colombie-Britannique a retiré de sa programmation deux 3 éléments excessivement significatifs pour les élèves 4 des programmes francophones: la diffusion de l'émission 5 "Micro midi" en direct d'une école à l'occasion de la 6 semaine de la francophonie et le jeu radiophonique de 7 l'émission du matin, "Le grand défi". 8 1147 Malgré les efforts et les 9 partenariats existants entre le Conseil scolaire et la 10 Société Radio-Canada pour la préparation de questions 11 reliées au sujet abordé dans les salles de classe et la 12 coordination d'équipes d'élèves pour participer au 13 grand défi, il semble y avoir un manque de ressources 14 trop important à la Société pour assurer la mise en 15 onde de cette activité qui remportait un certain succès 16 auprès des jeunes et même de leurs parents. 17 1148 Ce jeu radiophonique plaisait 18 particulièrement à la clientèle adolescente qui figure 19 parmi ses auditoires plus difficiles à intéresser. 20 Nous souhaitons que ce genre d'activité jeunesse soit 21 institué à nouveau à la radio. Il fut regrettable de 22 voir s'arrêter le jeu questionnaire "Génies en herbe" 23 au moment même où le Conseil scolaire francophone 24 pouvait collaborer, afin de faciliter la représentation 25 des élèves de la Colombie-Britannique. StenoTran 286 1 1149 Le jeu "Flip-Flop" a remplacé depuis 2 peu "Génies en herbe" et ne connaît pas encore la même 3 notoriété que son prédécesseur. Un exercice de 4 promotion du jeu et de recrutement des participantes et 5 participants à travers tout le Canada sont nécessaires. 6 1150 La Société Radio-Canada devrait faire 7 un effort supplémentaire afin d'assurer la 8 participation d'élèves de la Province, ici, aux 9 sessions d'enregistrement qui ont lieu à Québec, et 10 prévoir des sessions d'enregistrement à travers le 11 pays. 12 1151 Quoique l'équipe de la salle des 13 nouvelles de la Société Radio-Canada semble pouvoir 14 faire des tours de force afin de couvrir au meileur de 15 leurs ressources, les événements d'actualité, la venue 16 du Conseil scolaire francophone, un organisme qui 17 oeuvre sur l'ensemble de la Province, impose également 18 de nouvelles demandes à la structure actuelle de la 19 Société Radio-Canada, ici, en Colombie-Britannique. 20 1152 Il nous semble nécessaire et 21 important de souligner le manque de ressources pour 22 assurer une couverture adéquate des événements, et ce, 23 malgré la bonne volonté et les réseaux de communication 24 créés de part et d'autre pour faciliter la coordination 25 des interventions. StenoTran 287 1 1153 Les reportages issus de la salle de 2 nouvelles à Vancouver et de son journaliste affecté à 3 Victoria, déterminent la représentation régionale à 4 l'intérieur des émissions de nouvelles nationales. Il 5 est évident que cette représentation est insuffisante, 6 que ce soit pour l'émission de nouvelles nationales ou 7 pour toute autre émission diffusée sur le réseau 8 national. 9 1154 Le réseau de l'information RDI est 10 toujours dans une situation périlleuse ici en 11 Colombie-Britannique puisqu'il n'est pas diffusé par 12 tous les câblodistributeurs et parce que ceux-ci ayant 13 l'amabilité de le diffuser, le font sur des canaux 14 logés aux extrémités des prismes affectant de manière 15 sérieuse la qualité de l'image. 16 1155 Dans d'autres cas, la position du 17 canal est si élevée, le nombre au-delà de 48, qu'il 18 devient impossible pour les détenteurs de téléviseurs 19 vieux de plus de cinq ans de capter RDI. 20 1156 Bien que l'on tente de nous rassurer 21 en prétendant déjà depuis plusieurs années, que la 22 technologie numérique éliminera ce problème, nous 23 estimons qu'il est de la responsabilité des dirigeants 24 de notre société d'État de voir à l'intérêt de tous et 25 de demander une licence de diffusion obligatoire. StenoTran 288 1 1157 Rappelons que RDI demeure à ce jour 2 le seul canal de nouvelles télévisées en français et 3 mode continue. Il faudrait faire davantage la 4 promotion des émissions de RDI pour les jeunes comme, 5 par exemple, "Le bulletin des jeunes est branché". 6 1158 Notez que le Conseil scolaire 7 francophone va appuyer les demandes déposées par la SRC 8 et ses partenaires pour la mise en onde du réseau de 9 l'Histoire, du réseau de l'Économie, ainsi que du 10 réseau des Arts. Nous avons signaler pour ces trois 11 projets l'importance de la présence d'une 12 représentation régionale de la programmation jeunesse, 13 et surtout, d'une diffusion obligatoire. 14 1159 En terminant, il faut souligner 15 l'immense collaboration offerte en terme de service 16 d'information publique, que ce soit via les chroniques 17 bi-mensuelles du Conseil scolaire dans le cadre de 18 l'émission "Micro midi", via une contribution à 19 l'émission de fin de semaine, "La grande balade", ou 20 encore, par la diffusion du calendrier d'activités 21 communautaires ou par la diffusion d'information de 22 nature urgente concernant le fonctionnement du 23 transport scolaire et des écoles lors d'intempéries. 24 1160 Le Conseil scolaire francophone 25 bénéficie également d'un appui exceptionnel pour la StenoTran 289 1 mise en place de sa campagne annuelle de recrutement 2 d'élèves, tant à la radio qu'à la télévision. 3 1161 Comme vous pouvez le constatez, la 4 mise en place du Conseil scolaire francophone de la 5 Colombie-Britannique est récente, et déjà, plusieurs 6 collaborations se tissent afin d'assurer la 7 participation des élèves francophones et de leur livrer 8 un produit qui leur parle. 9 1162 Évidemment, l'arrivée du Conseil 10 scolaire provincial amène aussi tout un nouvel 11 assortiment de besoins. Il faut créer davantage 12 d'émissions qui nécessitent la participation des jeunes 13 de la Province et des provinces de l'Ouest, puisque la 14 définition identitaire francophone de cette clientèle 15 repose sur l'image qu'elle retrouve à la télévision et 16 à la radio. 17 1163 Cette responsabilité est grande. Le 18 seul diffuseur francophone actuellement disponible en 19 Colombie-Britannique demeure la Société Radio-Canada. 20 Le seul diffuseur redevable aux jeunes de la 21 Colombie-Britannique, aux parents et au personnel 22 enseignant de par son mandat, demeure la Société 23 Radio-Canada. 24 1164 Il faut augmenter la promotion de la 25 programmation jeunesse par tous les moyens. Certaines StenoTran 290 1 émissions sont méconnues. Je crois qu'il est également 2 nécessaire de se pencher sur une programmation jeunesse 3 à contenu éducatif. Cet encadrement est nécessaire 4 pour assurer l'épanouissement des élèves en milieu 5 minoritaire et vient compléter le rôle du parent et de 6 l'enseignante ou de l'enseignant. 7 1165 Il me semble également impératif pour 8 la Société Radio-Canada de réévaluer les répercussions 9 des coupures spécifiquement sur la production 10 d'émissions jeunesse radiophoniques locales, et 11 d'assurer les ressources pour permettre à l'ultime 12 émission télévisuelle produite en Colombie-Britannique, 13 l'émission de nouvelles, "Ce soir", de remplir 14 correctement son mandat. 15 1166 La Société Radio-Canada a un rôle de 16 premier ordre à jouer à titre de partenaire dans le 17 soutien à l'éducation francophone et à l'épanouissement 18 culturel en milieu minoritaire. Les produits 19 radiophoniques et télévisuels sont des éléments 20 essentiels dans la définition que les enfants et que 21 les adolescentes et adolescents se font de leur 22 communauté francophone locale, provinciale, nationale 23 et de plus en plus, dans leur autodétermination à titre 24 de francophones du monde. 25 1167 Les élèves de partout en StenoTran 291 1 Colombie-Britannique en ont besoin, plein la vue, comme 2 le dit la thématique promotionnelle actuelle. Nous 3 pouvons affirmer que ce sont... que ce ne sont pas les 4 plus grands consommateurs des produits de la Société 5 Radio-Canada à l'heure actuelle. Il faut leur apporter 6 des émissions qui correspondent davantage à leur 7 réalité de francophones en situation minoritaire et en 8 faire une plus grande promotion. Il faut leur en 9 mettre plein la vue. 10 1168 Merci de votre attention, chers 11 commissaires, et bonne continuation de votre tournée. 12 --- Applause / Applaudissements 13 1169 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci infiniment. 14 1170 MS PINSKY: The next speaker is Ms 15 Barker. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 1171 MS BARKER: Good evening, my name is 18 Katherine Barker. I have three points that I would 19 like to make this evening and I will be brief. 20 1172 Let me say that I came to CBC radio 21 late in life. I always thought it was for old people 22 and now that I am one, I really enjoy it. But I do not 23 see enough young people here and I worry about that. I 24 think we have a solution a little bit later on. 25 1173 I have my own office, a home office StenoTran 292 1 and I like many, many Canadians am working at home and 2 it is lonely to sit at home day in and day out. But I 3 have CBC radio on now right from the start. I think 4 when I first opened my office, I turned on CBC radio 5 and I listened to voices from all across Canada and I 6 have to say I am not alone. I do not feel lonely when 7 I have CBC radio. And I think my first point is to 8 remember and to carry back to Ottawa if you can how 9 important CBC radio is to those of us working at home, 10 those of us in SOHO, small office home office. And how 11 critical CBC radio is. Listening to anything else 12 would be painful. 13 1174 Keeping on the commercial radio, 14 commercial television or playing my spa music would be 15 painful but listening to CBC is not. It is an 16 important vital service to small business, to those of 17 us who work at home. If CBC does not want that 18 business, certainly someone else will pick it up, I am 19 certain of that. 20 1175 The second point that I would like to 21 make has to do with the importance of CBC radio to 22 Canada. I have been reading recently about activities 23 in the former Soviet union. I think there was an 24 attempted coup in 1993. The strategy of the 25 individuals in the group that wanted to take power away StenoTran 293 1 from the government was to storm the national radio. 2 And they fought, lives were lost, the tanks rolled in 3 and the importance of the national radio was so vital 4 to seeking power that it was the focus of their efforts 5 and I wondered what would happen in Canada. If there 6 was a revolution or some kind of a war, what would we 7 storm? I think my point is that we have to make CBC 8 that which we would storm, that which we would defend 9 with our lives. 10 --- Applause / Applaudissements 11 1176 MS BARKER: Finally, as I said, I am 12 an education futurist and I think the future of CBC has 13 to be framed as something else at this point to compete 14 as part of the media, part of the entertainment 15 industry with the private sector and of course with 16 American interests. And it cannot compete and it 17 should not compete. It should be something else. It 18 should be a part of our learning system, a part of our 19 education and training system. 20 1177 And so I think that, in terms of 21 future support for the CBC, when we look at the 22 initiatives that the federal government supports 23 towards a life-long learning culture and a life-long 24 learning society, all we need to do is think of CBC as 25 part of life-long learning rather than part of the StenoTran 294 1 media rather than part of our entertainment system and 2 make it vital to our education system it does provide 3 non-formal learning and we need to capitalize on that, 4 build on that. 5 1178 We need the CBC to be part of a 6 life-long learning system that provides the non-formal 7 learning that focuses on the learning needs of 8 individual Canadians from all across Canada and that 9 organizes to provide what it is that the established 10 education training system cannot. I leave it to CBC to 11 figure that one out but they have done it well so far. 12 1179 So my point, my third point is that 13 we should not lament the past, but that we should look 14 to the future and that we should create a new CBC 15 learning system for the future. 16 1180 Thank you. 17 --- Applause / Applaudissements 18 1181 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 19 you very much. I would propose that we take ten 20 minutes for coffee and we will reconvene. 21 --- Recess at 1930 / Suspension à 1930 22 --- Upon resuming at 1940 / Reprise à 1940 23 1182 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Alors, nous reprenons, 24 we will start again. 25 1183 MS PINSKY: Ms Connie Fogal is the StenoTran 295 1 next presenter. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 1184 MS FOGAL: Thank you. 4 1185 J'étais très heureuse que nous avons 5 eu une présentation en français parce que je me dit que 6 sans... comment on dit en français, comment... la 7 Société Radio-Canada, nous n'aurons pas le bilinguisme 8 du Canada et le bilinguisme pour moi, c'est très 9 important, c'est une des premières parts du Canada et 10 alors pour moi, c'est la seule façon, la seule manière 11 que nous aurons la continuation du bilinguisme et le 12 Canada comme nous avons maintenant. 13 1186 I am very happy that we had a 14 presentation in French because it reminded me that, 15 without the CBC we will not have a mechanism of radio 16 television communication that will protect and preserve 17 part of the essential identity of Canada which is our 18 bilingualism. And I think it is very important to 19 remember that and to remember that once we lose this 20 vehicle which we are in the process of having happen, 21 our identity, our Canadian-ness, our being as a country 22 will be gone. 23 1187 I want to say to you what to me is 24 the CBC, what is the CBC to me. To me it is my home 25 and I say that because if you are like me when you StenoTran 296 1 travel and you do come home to your own house, it feels 2 so good to get home to your own house and to your own 3 bed and to the familiarity of what is yours. And when 4 on those few occasions I have travelled across the 5 border south and I am close to the border of Canada and 6 I am able to hear CBC, honestly it was like coming 7 home. 8 1188 For me, the CBC is my country, it is 9 my identity, it is my culture. When a couple of years 10 ago, the mass of cut backs hit CBC, first of all, I 11 felt a deep sense of grieving like I felt when I sat on 12 my couch and was it 1995 when we had the Quebec 13 referendum and I thought I was losing my country. And 14 it was hard, it was very hard and very painful to 15 experience the grieving because I felt like I was 16 experiencing the death of the CBC which in my idea is 17 the death of Canada. 18 1189 Now my grieving has changed to an 19 anger. I am angry that our politicians are not just 20 letting this death happen, but they are creating it and 21 they are creating it by the deliberate withholding of 22 funding. They are creating it by submitting to a 23 global agenda which says there will be no public kinds 24 of facilities. Everything is to be privatized. 25 Everything, all the resources that I own, that I was StenoTran 297 1 born into the world to have, that are my inheritance, 2 my heritage, someone in a political decision-making 3 power is saying sorry lady, we are giving it away. 4 1190 So there is this agenda out there 5 that the decision-makers are submitting to. And I 6 am -- I am not accepting that. And I am here tonight 7 to say to you that I expect you as a commission with 8 the duty, public duty, I am asking you to remember your 9 role is to protect the public interest. And I am 10 asking you to be conscious of my great grievous fear 11 and unhappiness about the death of the CBC which is 12 just one other indication of the death of my country. 13 1191 There is this process in place 14 incrementally destroying us and I worry very much when 15 I read the line four paragraphs down on the first page 16 that says a public hearing on the CBC's licence renewal 17 will follow these discussions. Jumping right out at me 18 is the worry, does this mean that there is some 19 consideration by someone that that the renewal will not 20 take place? I become paranoid in my -- in my grief and 21 my anger about the destruction of what is my being. 22 And I make no bones about that and no apologies. 23 1192 Most of the people who sit around 24 this table are typical, nice Canadians, they say nice 25 things kindly, present very well, but I think, if you StenoTran 298 1 listen carefully, you will be able to hear some of what 2 I am quite willing to express in a much more direct way 3 that is my fear and my anger. 4 --- Applause / Applaudissements 5 1193 MS FOGAL: There is an agenda right 6 now that all the resources of the world are to belong 7 to a few and we have seen that process begun with the 8 Free Trade Agreement and the NAFTA. We were told that 9 our cultural matters were all protected under NAFTA but 10 we've seen about that that is not so clear. There has 11 been a passing of a bill but probably it will not be 12 enforced in terms of the magazines. 13 1194 I think that as Canadians we have had 14 some real shocks in seeing the challenge when our 15 Parliament passes a law to protect the citizens and 16 then it ends up not only paying out the compensation 17 which it is required to do under NAFTA because you can 18 pass a law, but then you will have to pay the 19 compensation but then we saw the lack of dignity of our 20 parliamentarians apologizing for having had the 21 audacity to pass the laws to protect the citizens of 22 Canada. 23 1195 Now we have a weak kind of law that I 24 fear will not protect the aspect of our culture that is 25 in the magazine industry and I fear that the agenda of StenoTran 299 1 the destruction of CBC is on the march and unless we as 2 citizens and one as one or two other people stand up 3 and say we will just not accept this and ask you, the 4 representatives on the commission to take forward that 5 message strong and clear, that we will be 6 steam-rollered over. 7 1196 And it is time for politicians to 8 understand and you are politicians, and I am not 9 faulting you, but I am saying that you have to take bag 10 the message that we are not going to accept the 11 destruction of our CBC we will not accept the 12 destruction of our Canada. 13 1197 I want to say one more point about 14 money. Every one says we will have to lose the 15 television aspect of the CBC because if there is not 16 enough money we may have to give up something. That is 17 the biggest lie of all that there is no money. 18 --- Applause / Applaudissements 19 1198 MS FOGAL: William Lyon Mackenzie 20 King said at the time of the Second World War that once 21 a country loses control of its money, loses control of 22 its economy, it has lost its sovereignty. And there is 23 a mechanism in Canada that we still have under 24 legislation by which we can fund everything that we 25 want that we need, that we have had, that is our StenoTran 300 1 history, that is our infrastructure, that is all our 2 social programs, that is our CBC and that is by using 3 the Bank of Canada. We did it at the time of the 4 Second World War and it is because we used that source 5 of money instead of borrowing money from the private 6 banks at their rates of interest we can borrow from our 7 own bank at a low-interest or at a very low rate of 8 interest and that is what saved our country before and 9 that is what propelled our country into the great 10 country that we became and that we have begun to lose 11 since the 1970s. 12 1199 That mechanism still exists and every 13 Canadian has to know that it is the biggest lie of all 14 against us as citizens that we do not have the money 15 that we cannot have the money. We simply have to say 16 no, we are not going to get the money we need from 17 borrowing from the private banks and paying them 18 exorbitant rates of interest which creates the debt 19 which impoverishes us. And we are going to use the 20 sovereign measures which we have. 21 1200 Except that if we do not demand that 22 our elected people make use of the measures which 23 exist, we are participating in our own death. And so 24 the CBC is simply one of the most concrete 25 representations of the -- of our end of our demise. StenoTran 301 1 And so my message to you, as a citizen is my plea 2 simply that protect the CBC, make sure that it remains. 3 Do not accept that it is impossible for us to have this 4 public broadcasting system which is of the best in the 5 world just because it is going downhill dramatically in 6 these last couple of years does not mean it has to be 7 that way except that you must accept as I think most 8 citizens in Canada accept is that the agenda is to see 9 that it is killed and the reason that agenda is there 10 is that the privatization is the agenda and there must 11 not be a CBC any more than there must be a health 12 program or any other program. 13 1201 So I am here pleading with you, put 14 it on the record that there are citizens out here who 15 are beginning to understand what is happening out there 16 and we are not going to accept it and I know that you 17 do not have political power, I presume you do not have 18 political power, but you have political influence and I 19 am asking you to use. Use it. 20 --- Applause / Applaudissements 21 1202 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 22 you and I would like maybe to not respond but maybe 23 bring a clarification to the role of the CRTC. The 24 role of the CRTC is to implement the Broadcasting Act 25 and the Broadcasting Act is very clear about the StenoTran 302 1 broadcasting system being made of the public and the 2 private sector. And the process in which we are 3 involved right now is about the renewal of the 4 licences. We have no power to not accept the -- you 5 know, to revoke the licences. It is the renewal of the 6 licence. They will be renewed. And what we are 7 discussing with you and will be continuing the 8 discussion in the public hearing at the end of May is 9 what are the conditions and the terms of those 10 licences. 11 1203 So I do not want to, you know, 12 silence your voices, it is very important that you 13 express all the emotions and all your reason and 14 thoughts about the CBC, but I would not want you to 15 leave the room with the wrong impression that we, the 16 CRTC might decide not to renew or renew the licences. 17 They will be renewed, that is for sure and there is no 18 power of ours to do otherwise and it is with a strong 19 conviction that the broadcasting system in Canada has 20 really -- it is valued because of the strong presence 21 of the public system. 22 1204 MS FOGAL: One of your speakers will 23 probably deal with this, but I am quoting from an 24 article of his where he talks about the private 25 broadcasters fully receiving half the costs of their StenoTran 303 1 Canadian dramas coming from public sources such as 2 Telefilm, Canadian Public Television and tax credits 3 which money the Chrétien government has taken away from 4 the CBC. I do not need to know what your role is, all 5 I need you to know is that there is a strong feeling 6 out here to continue the mechanism of the CBC for 7 Canadians. I am not saying there cannot be any private 8 stuff, but for goodness sake do not destroy our public 9 stuff. Do not let it be destroyed. 10 1205 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 11 you. 12 1206 MS PINSKY: Mr. Darryl Duke is the 13 next presenter. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 1207 MR. DUKE: Good evening, madam 16 Bertrand. First, may I extend my appreciation to you 17 for the opportunity given to me and all the members of 18 the Vancouver public whom you have seen all today and 19 tomorrow to comment on the future of the CBC. Far too 20 often in recent years the commission hearings about the 21 media, whether specialty channels, national licences or 22 pay TV have taken place far from our shores, in Hull, 23 where the general public has been excluded by reasons 24 of distance and cost and where only well paid corporate 25 executives or lobbyists on expense accounts could StenoTran 304 1 attend. 2 1208 Your readiness to give the public 3 access to comment on the CBC in advance of your may 4 25th hearing is to be warmly congratulated and I 5 certainly congratulate you on that. 6 --- Applause / Applaudissements 7 1209 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 8 you. 9 1210 MR. DUKE: Tonight I speak strongly 10 in support of the CBC which has been with me for a 11 long, long time. And I speak more particularly through 12 my remarks on two topics. One is the response of local 13 programming and the other is the quality of CBC 14 leadership and the appointment process by which that 15 CBC leadership is put in place. 16 1211 And before I launch on to those two 17 topics, I would like to thank you back in time, Madam 18 Bertrand to a date on December 16th, 1953 when my life 19 in television began at the CBC and here in Vancouver. 20 On that December night I was one of a small group who 21 brought CBC television to Vancouver and to our Pacific 22 coast. 23 1212 For the opening night ceremonies I 24 turned on a small out a short film about our city I was 25 in the control room as the first queues were given and StenoTran 305 1 the very first television signal went out from our 2 studios on West Georgia Street. 3 1213 I continued at CBUT for five years 4 until the CBC transferred me to Toronto to produce 5 public affairs programs for the series such as "Close 6 Up" and to be executive producer of "Request", a series 7 of contemporary dramas, music and documentaries which 8 ran for three years in the early 1960s. 9 1214 I elaborate these biographical 10 details because I -- they are in support of some 11 feelings I have strongly about what is happening today 12 to the CBC. 13 1215 In the years following my time I 14 worked for at the CBC, I worked for all three U.S. 15 networks and for most of the major studios in 16 Hollywood. That work took me through the U.S., Europe, 17 South America, the Middle East and Asia. And I worked 18 on shows which cost but a few hundred dollars and were 19 seen only locally and others like "The Thornbirds" 20 which cost over $22 million and became one of the most 21 watched dramas ever telecast. 22 1216 Later, on returning to Canada, I was 23 the founding chairman and major shareholder of 24 Vancouver's independent TV station then known as CKVU 25 TV which won a licence from the CRTC in 1975. StenoTran 306 1 Therefore, I have been a part of seeing the launch of 2 two of Vancouver's television stations, one private, 3 one belonging to the people of Canada. Both 4 experiences were and remain fond and important 5 highlights in my life. Both gave me a lasting 6 impression of the importance of local television to our 7 city. It is that importance of local and regional 8 broadcasting and its access to our citizens that I 9 stress in these few remarks to you tonight. 10 1217 To speak to you in 1999 about the CBC 11 and local broadcasting in Vancouver is to speak of a 12 great sense of loss, the loss of a dream which once 13 existed and the programming which was once expressive 14 of that public service dream. 15 1218 Through information, a society is 16 made better. That was the quote that we were all told 17 and lived by when we started to work in those early 18 years of the corporation. I speak to you, too, with a 19 sense of betrayal of the city of my birth and all these 20 different people, Iranian, Sikh, Chinese, Aboriginal, 21 as well as English who are today disenfranchised by the 22 absence of a public broadcasters from their cultures 23 and from their lives. 24 1219 To look at the CBC today is to 25 witness the abdication of the CBC from the talent, the StenoTran 307 1 issue, the broad range of programming each citizen has 2 the right to expect from his public broadcaster within 3 his own community. 4 1220 I hope the commission in its hearings 5 in May will do everything in its power to restore the 6 fullness of local programming in this, Canada's second 7 largest English speaking city. 8 1221 The CBC is rich in air time but poor 9 in spirit. The CBC is rich in people's goodwill, but 10 poor in the profound dumbness of its leaders who betray 11 that goodwill. The noted Italian journalist Irena 12 Felacci wrote: "Journalism is an extraordinary and 13 terrible privilege." 14 1222 So, too, Madam Bertrand, are the 15 expectations placed upon a public broadcaster. 16 Leadership and the ramifications of poor or 17 shortsighted leadership is the second aspect of CBC 18 renewal along with local programming that I hope you 19 and the commission will tackle at licence renewal time. 20 1223 The decline we witness in the CBC is 21 not the result of some strange interplanetary 22 conglomeration of events beyond human control. This 23 decline is made by particular finite means. It is 24 caused by finite decisions by which one Canada has been 25 stripped of its greatest patrimony, the knowledge of StenoTran 308 1 who we are and where we come from and what kind of 2 journey we are setting out upon together. 3 1224 Finite man stripped English Canada 4 and, if I knew more of the French broadcasting system, 5 I might say stripped both English and French Canada of 6 their cultures. And tell us their actions are 7 inevitable. After they have done so, finite man have 8 taken away almost a third of the CBC's budget and have 9 lost almost a third of the CBC's trained staff and they 10 tell us this is inevitable or necessary because of the 11 newest fashion in corporate mumbo jumbo, globalization, 12 fragmentation, the Internet, downsizing, contracting 13 out, it goes on and on. 14 1225 But finite men and women have 15 commercialized the CBC until it is almost 16 unrecognizable as a public broadcaster. 17 1226 Next year, the CBC plans to generate 18 $475 million from advertising revenue. Where did that 19 little caper come from? From the days of Brian 20 Mulroney, from John Chrétien, from Paul Martin or from 21 the CBC chair and her politically appointed board? 22 1227 How do these things happen that half 23 of the revenue of a public corporation comes now from 24 advertising? 25 1228 Robert McChesny, in a speech at Simon StenoTran 309 1 Fraser University defined public broadcasting as a 2 system that is non-profit and non-commercial, supported 3 by public funds ultimately accountable in some legally 4 defined way to the citizenry aimed at providing a 5 service to the entire population and one which does not 6 apply commercial principles as the primary means to 7 determine its programming. 8 1229 I find, Madam Bertrand, Professor 9 McChesny's description of public broadcasting a 10 chilling one. So much has been lost or has been 11 deliberately forgotten in the rush to privatize 12 programs and to destroy the in-house production 13 capacity of the CBC. 14 1230 The CBC has been powerless to avoid 15 being thrown into the flames. For at its heart -- for 16 at the heart of its tipping problem were acts of 17 political betrayal. The appointment of men who by 18 their very nature and talents were incapable of giving 19 the CBC what it needed most, a vision, a sense of 20 nuance of our nation, a knowledge of our multicultural 21 reality. 22 1231 These men once appointed can only 23 undermine what we needed most in this country, a leader 24 in the recommend of ideas whose care for artistic 25 integrity was personal and profound. Who but a Borgia StenoTran 310 1 would appoint Gérard Vaillou, an accountant from the 2 treasury department to be president of the CBC? 3 Mulroney did. 4 --- Applause / Applaudissements 5 1232 MR. DUKE: Vaillou told the 6 commission at a hearing in the early 1990s that 7 Vancouver and the regions would henceforth be served 8 and I remember that very clearly by the supper hour 9 news. With that one statement out went dedication to 10 the city's talent to its issues, to its music both 11 classical and pop, to its own dramas and its own 12 experimental productions. 13 1233 Who but a Macchiavello would put 14 Perrin Beatty at the head of our most precious cultural 15 institution. He was the man that was on the very 16 Mulroney cabinet who began the cuts to the CBC. It was 17 Jean Chrétien who did that. 18 1234 Perrin Beatty and the appointed 19 members of the board are still in place. The damage 20 they have done is there for us to witness, not only in 21 repeat programs, more commercial shows than ever, 22 privatize shows which makes us lose the library rights 23 and diminish the assets of the Canadian people but also 24 in the labour humiliations and overwork which sees 25 staff on the picket line even as we speak here today StenoTran 311 1 tonight. 2 1235 These appointments have radically 3 impacted the operation and effectiveness of public 4 broadcasting in Canada. They have altered its cultured 5 and commercialized ideas. The commission in examining 6 CBC and its licence renewal can perhaps look at the 7 whole appointment process which places liberal lawyers, 8 party faithful and individuals from business on a board 9 with overwhelming power over the welfare of our public 10 cultural institutions. 11 --- Applause / Applaudissements 12 1236 MR. DUKE: Perhaps in the licence 13 renewal process the commission can study and recommend 14 features of appointments to cultural boards which are 15 now in place in a far more democratic and open fashion 16 and Nelson Mandella's South Africa. In the end, the 17 commission must ask, can a network devoted to sports, 18 news and commercial drama be truly a public 19 broadcasting network? 20 1237 There are ways back from this steady 21 decline. The commission in one instance can bring an 22 end to the forces which have centralized our network, 23 centralization is a form of cultural arrogance. 24 1238 Centralization is not about saving 25 money, it is about control. It is programming StenoTran 312 1 according to the boon docks theory of culture that only 2 at the centre is to be found knowledge and production 3 expertise. 4 1239 Vancouver as the second largest city 5 in English Canada needs to have local broadcasting 6 restored. The CBC in Vancouver needs once again to be 7 a major production centre. It needs access to its own 8 prime time air time. It needs autonomy of 9 decision-making, it needs to have its own budget. It 10 needs to have a strong in-house production capacity as 11 befits its studios. The fact that CBC Toronto sits 12 with a huge and expensive broadcast centre should not 13 be a dead weight upon the rest of us. 14 --- Applause / Applaudissements 15 1240 MR. DUKE: There was a time when I 16 and so many others who followed me hired commedians, 17 writers, choreographers, play writers, musicians, 18 ballet dancers, academics, actors, string quartets, 19 chamber orchestras, ballad singers and rhythm and blues 20 men. The CBC here was a bustling and involved centre 21 in the culture of our city. 22 1241 Now, the rain sweeps past that cement 23 plaza on Georgia Street and the news is done from the 24 CBUT coffee shop. I hope when the commission is 25 through with its task in play, local, multicultural StenoTran 313 1 programming will be able to set and achieve new targets 2 of excellence here in the city. Thank you Madam 3 Bertrand. 4 --- Applause / Applaudissements 5 1242 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 6 you very much, Mr. Duke. 7 1243 MS PINSKY: Mr. Dick Hamilton is the 8 next presenter. 9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 10 1244 MR. HAMILTON: I want to thank the 11 CRTC for coming all this way to listen to what we have 12 to say. 13 1245 Before addressing specific issues, I 14 want to say that a clear distinction needs to be made 15 between CBC radio and CBC television in the CRTC 16 hearings. This is not often so in the media. I am 17 aware of the perception that television, not radio is 18 where the action is. Today, CBC management appears to 19 be more concerned with the future of CBC television 20 than it is with the future of CBC radio. And I, for 21 one, am very worried about the implications for CBC 22 radio. 23 1246 Regarding CBC radio, I have several 24 points to make. Point number one, I oppose the 25 possible introduction of commercial advertising in StenoTran 314 1 Radio One or Radio Two. 2 --- Applause / Applaudissements 3 1247 MR. HAMILTON: If such a travesty 4 should occur, I would simply turn the radio off. Would 5 that be a loss for me? Absolutely. 6 1248 Point two, I believe the CBC should 7 obtain public funding to remain and increase 8 programming that leads to a better understanding about 9 Canada and its peoples programs such as "This Morning", 10 "Richardson's Round Up", "Cross-Country Checkup", 11 "Writers and Company", "Tapestry" and "Ideas" are 12 invaluable programs. They are part as someone 13 mentioned earlier this evening, they are part of the 14 glue that binds Canadians as a community. 15 1249 What broadcaster in Canada would 16 cover the establishment of Nunavut on April 1 of this 17 year? Good old CBC, that is who. 18 1250 Who provides exceptionally good 19 programs of Canadian radio and the arts programs such 20 as Radio Two "In Performance", "Choral Concert" and 21 others. Again, good old CBC. 22 1251 Point three, CBC radio listeners in 23 the major market areas tend to take CBC radio for 24 granted. But what about those who live in isolated 25 communities? Our daughter and son-in-law live with StenoTran 315 1 their children in Telegraph Creek, in northwestern 2 British Columbia. That community and many more in 3 other isolated areas of this country depend on CBC 4 radio for news an weather information. 5 1252 More important, only CBC radio 6 provides some of the same programs that we take for 7 granted in the more densely populated regions. 8 However, reception on short wave is very poor. 9 Consequently, people in isolated regions often do not 10 have a reliable link to the rest of Canada and the 11 world which can only be provided by CBC radio. 12 1253 Point four. CBC radio means a great 13 deal to many Canadians. Our other daughter living in 14 Victoria sent me an e-mail message this morning asking 15 to include some of her thoughts about CBC radio. 16 1254 She says that CBC radio provides 17 incredibly in-depth, reliable and topical coverage of 18 events and general happenings worldwide. Including 19 information about the arts, politics, economics, 20 environment, history. She learns more about Canada, 21 about our different cultures our diverse ecosystems, 22 political and economic issues and conflicts. And there 23 is a variety of musical programming including wonderful 24 news and analysis and comedy entertainment as well. 25 1255 She says that these are not available StenoTran 316 1 elsewhere on Canadian radio. And that is the main fear 2 that she has. She values CBC programming -- radio 3 programming so highly and that if it disappears then we 4 will be left with a huge void. She ends her comments 5 with a question: Where else can I get this incredible 6 opportunity to obtain all this up to date information 7 while I wash dishes or clean a closet? 8 1256 Point five, CBC radio is the 9 programming choice in our household. We choose CBC 10 radio because it provides valuable, thought provoking 11 programs and magnificent music. 12 1257 Now, regarding CBC television, I want 13 to comment on two points. Point number one: CBC 14 should be the major generator of high quality 15 information drama and arts television programs which 16 reflect the milieu that is Canada. Information 17 programs such as "Marketplace", "Venture", "The Fifth 18 Estate", "The Nature of Things" do give a Canadian 19 perspective on major issues affecting this country. 20 1258 I commend CBC television for this 21 programming. But I would like to see production of 22 more serious drama in Canada. Joint production of 23 drama by CBC and other television producers, Canadian 24 other otherwise should be increased and I think the 25 same can be applied to CBC radio and the production of StenoTran 317 1 drama on that medium. 2 1259 Point two, regional programming of 3 CBC television is extremely important because it 4 permits the various regions to tailor programs to its 5 listeners. Centralization of programming in Toronto is 6 not practical. 7 1260 On "Cross-Country Checkup" aired last 8 Sunday, callers in different regions clearly stated 9 that they did not have the opportunity to advise CBC 10 management on the types of programs that they wanted or 11 needed. Our country is huge and CBC television needs 12 to relate to a diverse range of viewers. 13 1261 A few general comments: The CBC is 14 an institution which has played a vital role in the 15 evolution of the Canada that we know today. It must 16 remain as the public broadcaster in Canada. Under no 17 circumstances should it be further decimated and 18 otherwise transformed into a state run broadcaster. 19 1262 The CBC, like every one and 20 everything else must adapt to the new reality of 21 specialized programming. Specialization is inevitable 22 and CBC must use its national mandate to provide 23 quality radio and television throughout this country. 24 1263 CBC management must take hard 25 decisions because it cannot be all things to all its StenoTran 318 1 listeners and viewers. The current malaise at the CBC 2 convinces me that both entities, radio and TV require 3 adequate and stable funding from the federal 4 government. 5 1264 CBC management must operate at arm's 6 length from the federal government. Changes need to be 7 made in the process of selecting members of the CBC 8 board. The board alone should choose its president 9 with no instructions from the government of the day. 10 Political interference in the operation of the CBC must 11 not be tolerated. The CBC is distinct from commercial 12 radio and television and must remain so. Quality of 13 programming and its delivery not the bottom line must 14 be the major criteria for evaluating the CBC. 15 1265 In summary, we Canadians need to 16 remind ourselves that we are a unique people and a 17 unique country. The CBC as the public broadcaster and 18 telecaster in Canada, has a marvelous opportunity to 19 share the aspirations and visions of our country not 20 only with us citizens but also with people all over the 21 world. 22 1266 We have our own unique stories and 23 the CBC through its domestic and international services 24 can be the best story teller to listeners and viewers 25 at home and around the world. StenoTran 319 1 --- Applause / Applaudissements 2 1267 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 3 you, Mr. Hamilton. 4 1268 MS PINSKY: Ms Patricia Speakman is 5 the next speaker. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 1269 MS SPEAKMAN: I want to thank you 8 very much for giving me the opportunity to speak here 9 tonight. 10 1270 I am an ordinary Canadian citizen 11 enjoying what I like to think of as a sunny retirement. 12 The CBC has enriched my life and the lives of my family 13 for well over 50 years so I wish to thank the CRTC for 14 this opportunity to express my point of view. 15 1271 I think I shall restrict my remarks 16 to CBC radio. I hope I may be allowed to sound 17 somewhat sentimental for a moment or two. When I 18 listened with dismay to the news reports of the 19 proposed budget cuts, I was reminded not of an 20 institution, but of a multicoloured, splendid garden 21 which had been planted long ago with great care and 22 hard work by dedicated, imaginative people who shaped 23 it for future generations. And now it is in danger of 24 being shocked to extinction by the briers and thistles 25 of greedy advertisers. StenoTran 320 1 1272 The air around it is being polluted 2 by American programming. We do not need their 3 influence because the CBC is fulfilling its role as 4 superbly as ever. Indeed, it is continuing to do so 5 heroicly in the face of these lamentable budget cuts. 6 1273 As we approach the new millennium, I 7 hope that the CBC will not change its role simply 8 because it is the turn of the century or because other 9 broadcasters are taking that route. There will 10 inevitably be changes with regard to technology, 11 marketing and a new generation of listeners. 12 1274 I feel sure those changes can be made 13 and problem solving can be achieved while still 14 preserving the status quo as the great far-flung 15 network which binds Canadians from sea to sea to sea. 16 1275 Of course, we are all aware that 17 plans cannot be made or completed without money. And 18 how well the predatory advertisers know that. Until 19 the federal government has a change of heart, shall we 20 say, or at least becomes aware of the havoc it has 21 brought about in the CBC, I am wondering, I think this 22 point has been covered, but I am wondering if there is 23 any point in reinstating the radio licence to private 24 people as an acceptable, practical solution. 25 1276 Now, such a suggestion might well be StenoTran 321 1 greeted by a collective gasp of protest or 2 apprehension, but surely a message might be sent out to 3 listeners to the effect that for 20 to 25 cents, while 4 we can think about that figure, that may be all 5 together unrealistic, 20 to 25 cents a day the present 6 quality and variety of programs can be maintained. It 7 just might save the day. Is it not at least worth 8 thinking about? 9 1277 I should say here that those figures 10 are just off the top of my head, but I feel that we 11 must find a way to turn the tide of the growing 12 invasion of advertising. When you are listening to a 13 lovely musical program, can you imagine having to 14 listen to an ad for hamburgers in the midst of Handel's 15 "Messiah"? 16 1278 I live here in Vancouver, so I am 17 well served by Radio One and Two, but I find it 18 delightful to know that there are fellow Canadians out 19 there keeping me company as they listen from their 20 homes in Peachland, Smithers, Houston and Sooke. Those 21 are just a few. 22 1279 The CBC is unique and that is why I 23 am persuaded that it would be wrong headed, even 24 disastrous to try to be the same as other broadcasters 25 who are so given to fads and twaddle. The focus should StenoTran 322 1 be on eliminating, in my view any way, the focus should 2 be on eliminating or at least counteracting American 3 programming. 4 1280 Mr. Nolton Nash describes the CBC as 5 a national treasure, and so it is. 6 --- Applause / Applaudissements 7 1281 MS SPEAKMAN: I must tell Mr. Nash 8 that you clapped for him. 9 1282 For this reason, Canadians cannot 10 afford to be either uninformed or misinformed about the 11 past, present and future of this country. 12 1283 I salute the CBC. Broadcasting to 13 the multiculture of this huge country is a daunting 14 challenge. In spite of the criticisms that I have 15 heard here tonight, I am saying to you CBC, take bow 16 and thank you. 17 --- Applause / Applaudissements 18 1284 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: If I 19 was asked tonight to define what is an ordinary 20 citizen, I would say that it is the ordinary listener 21 of CBC who has a lot of convictions and emotions. 22 --- Applause / Applaudissements 23 1285 MS PINSKY: Ms Joanne Blake is the 24 next presenter. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 323 1 1286 MS BLAKE: Thank you for giving me 2 this opportunity. I also want to thank everyone else 3 for being here. I feel supported in some of the 4 feelings that I have been experiencing as watching the 5 CBC go down the tubes I feel incredibly devastated by 6 what has been happening to this media and particularly 7 it is, I think, a point in history where we are facing 8 a lot of problems and I would also like to reinforce a 9 lot of what I have heard around this table about the 10 forces of darkness that are responsible for this and 11 what the motivations are behind it. And that is the 12 promotion of a particular what one speaker, I think 13 aptly called the corporate political agenda. 14 1287 Corporate political agenda, corporate 15 political economy and I would like to reinforce that 16 point of view as well. But most of all, what I want to 17 give is a personal feeling about the CBC that I have. 18 My connection with the CBC goes more than 50 years. I 19 remember "Maggie Muggins" on the radio and then later 20 on, "My Small Children" and all "Mr. Dressup", all 21 those children's programming and that. And I think 22 that has been one of the great losses that the CBC as a 23 radio media has suffered in the past while is 24 addressing -- is providing programming for children and 25 youth. And actually giving youth access to the media StenoTran 324 1 radio media. 2 1288 And I wanted to also say that I, 3 through my experiences with the CBC, it has been an 4 experience. I lived in a semirural area, had children, 5 I was newly married and then a year or two later small 6 children started to come. I lived in a semirural area 7 and at that time with very little formal education. 8 And the CBC, while I was changing diapers, sweeping 9 floors, washing dishes, et cetera, was really important 10 to me in that area. I had the choice of listening to 11 that or listening to the closest small town AM radio 12 where all you heard all day was country and western 13 music and commercials. So -- and I know the CBC has 14 performed that function, that role in many people's 15 lives who lived in semirural areas or rural areas. 16 1289 The second point, I think the CBC 17 both the radio and television is extremely important 18 for us as a small country, living beside the most 19 powerful country in the world in terms of how -- as a 20 vehicle for reproducing Canadian culture for the 21 production of Canadian culture and for the reproduction 22 of Canadian culture it is a -- I also spoke to my 23 daughter who is a performing artist and asked her, 24 well, what would you like to say if you were coming to 25 this hearing and as a performing artist, other people StenoTran 325 1 as well have brought out the point that it has been 2 such an important -- has been important in giving 3 creative people access and tools to work with and 4 excellent facilities for doing their art, whatever that 5 is, music, theatre, drama, et cetera. 6 1290 I think -- I think that, also, the 7 CBC counteracts this incredibly sterile monoculture pop 8 culture -- I have to be careful with my language -- but 9 that we are exposed through -- exposed to from private 10 sector media. 11 1291 Okay. And I think that the CBC if 12 the CBC was adequately managed and funded, it is an 13 incredible source for providing access to the tools, 14 access and tools for creativity in Canada of our art, 15 our artistic people. 16 1292 And then the second -- the third and 17 final point I wanted to make is its contribution as a 18 vehicle for -- as a tool for participating in the 19 political life of our country and this is where I think 20 the forces of darkness have definitely got a plan in 21 mind. 22 1293 I mean the CBC, in my mind, when I 23 was a more mature adult in the '60s and '70s was the 24 major critic. It provided access to minority opinions, 25 alternative opinions, opposition opinions which StenoTran 326 1 commercial media do not do in Canada and it is an 2 incredible problem, I think right now that we are 3 facing. 4 1294 And the speaker who was speaking when 5 I came in, the Reverend Price who said that things are 6 looking dark, I think they are. I think the last 20 7 years my work has been outside of the country in Latin 8 America, and Africa and I have worked in countries that 9 have -- tend to have totalitarian regimes where the 10 people have very limited access to diverse political 11 opinions. 12 1295 And, to me, the CBC is incredibly 13 valuable, has been and I think this is one of the 14 things that I have noted since these cuts and all the 15 destruction of the CBC has been going on is that that 16 is not appearing anymore on the CBC. And I think that 17 is part of the design of the people who have 18 implemented these, this aagenda. They do not want the 19 CBC to be a critic any more. They do not -- they are 20 destroying the CBC's power to be -- to give access to 21 the critics in our country and that frightens me no 22 end. 23 1296 Because, as I say, in the career I 24 have had the last 20 years, I have spent a lot of time 25 in countries where there is not free access to StenoTran 327 1 information, or free access to people who have an 2 opposing opinion. And it will never happen in the 3 private sector. And I am sick to death of sound bite 4 news. CBC radio has, you can get analysis of -- you 5 can get an analysis of the news of events that happen 6 and commercial radio does not do that. 7 1297 Just to conclude on that point, I 8 think the CBC is rightfully as a public broadcaster it 9 should be preserved as a tool for preserving democratic 10 practice and democratic opinion -- opinions that 11 contribute to conserving and building democratic 12 practice in Canada. Thank you. 13 --- Applause / Applaudissements 14 1298 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 15 you very much. 16 1299 MS PINSKY: Mr. Ian Boothby is the 17 next presenter. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 1300 MR. BOOTHBY: Okay. I would like to 20 just piggy-back on what you were saying about diverse 21 opinions. CBC has got a really hard job in that they 22 are supposed to present what is the Canadian unified 23 point of view and that is something they write about in 24 the news a lot, you know, saying what is the Canadian 25 identity, we do not have a Canadian identity and yet StenoTran 328 1 they also have to represent a diverse point of view and 2 show all diverse cultures and show diverse parts of 3 Canada and we are supposed to show a unified part when 4 it is diverse and I have always thought that is what 5 Canada is, that is our unified point of view, that we 6 are diverse. 7 1301 The problem -- there is a bad side to 8 that, though. Because we are so diverse and we are so 9 tolerant of everything, we get very nice and because we 10 are very nice we are very polite and then when 11 something like the CBC is sort of falling apart, we are 12 polite about it and we don't get mad and we have got to 13 get more mad. I think sometimes. 14 --- Applause / Applaudissements 15 1302 MR. BOOTHBY: Now, a lot of people 16 have mentioned that they like the "Airfarce" and 17 usually they tag that on to "I hate TV, but I like the 18 Airfarce" and that is the same thing, with all my 19 friends who do not like TV, I always ask about what 20 about PBS or the Discovery Channel, "Oh, I like that, I 21 just do not like certain things on TV." Well don't 22 criticize the glass, it can be filled with water or 23 filled with poison, but TV is the glass. 24 1303 With "Airfarce", I prefer myself 25 "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" because they get more angry. StenoTran 329 1 When we were going to lose Quebec, the only people that 2 could tell Jean Chrétien to get off his arse were Rick 3 Mercer and the gang over there. They were the only 4 ones that had the national audience and that he'd 5 listen to. 6 1304 If "This Hour"is knocking on his 7 door, you bet he is going to be opening it and 8 welcoming them in even more than Nolton Nash and 9 whoever else you want. 10 1305 That is because I think focusing on 11 something that CBC television does something very well 12 is sketch comedy. 13 1306 I think Canadians do sketch comedy 14 better than anyone in the world and that is not just 15 nationalism talking, you talk about "Saturday Night 16 Live" created by a Canadian, "SCTV", one of the 17 greatest sketch comedy shows in the world mostly 18 Canadians in that. This is something that we do very 19 well. 20 1307 Another thing that shows up in the 21 papers quite a bit is why don't we do the great 22 Canadian sitcom. And I do not know if anyone noticed, 23 but over the last year it happened with "Made in 24 Canada", once again, the Rick Mercer sitcom, a 25 brilliant, brilliant sitcom but it did not have a laugh StenoTran 330 1 track, so I guess a lot of people did not notice it was 2 a sitcom. 3 1308 Similar thing is happening in the 4 States now with "Sports Night". They want to take the 5 laugh track off, but the network would not do it. They 6 said the audience would not understand it. We think 7 Canadians are smarter than Americans think Americans 8 are. 9 1309 We know our people are smart and that 10 is a good thing, too. Working in CBC, in the comedy 11 industry I have never, ever been told to dumb something 12 down. Working in the American industry, I am 13 constantly told to dumb it down. That is something 14 that we can be proud of that, you know, we think we are 15 smart. 16 1310 How did we get that sitcom -- I think 17 I want to just break down how it happened and we can 18 repeat this, this is very easy to repeat. What 19 happened was it started with "Codco". CBC went to the 20 Maritimes, Maritimes was not very represented 21 comedy-wise, their point of view was not being 22 represented they had a theatre company that was doing 23 very well, let us put the theatre company on 24 television, that was "Codco" they did very well and 25 every one learned what they were doing when they were StenoTran 331 1 up to speed and up to snuff they said let us try 2 something different, "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" 3 started. 4 1311 From there that got enough momentum 5 going and people understanding what was going on with 6 that and the crew started getting how to work things, 7 the writers started understanding things and we got the 8 sitcom. What we always tried doing in the past was let 9 us just start from scratch do a sitcom oh, it did not 10 work well let us do another one in ten years. This is 11 the way we can build comedy in this country. 12 1312 Every region -- I have toured all 13 around the country, every region has their own comedy 14 and their own styles. Saskatchewan style of comedy is 15 very different from the Maritimes, it is very different 16 from Vancouver, it is very different from up north. 17 1313 If you want to find out what a people 18 are like, find out what makes them laugh and you will 19 get into their heart because they cannot fake that. 20 They can fake anything else, they can lie to you, but 21 they cannot fake laughing. 22 1314 Here is what you do. We had a show 23 on called "Sketch Com" this year which we are going to 24 feature 12 different diverse sketch comedy troops and 25 show sort of what Canada is laughing about. StenoTran 332 1 Unfortunately, they all came from the Toronto area so 2 they all looked alike they all sounded alike they are 3 all about guys playing poker they are all about 4 offices. 5 1315 What you have got to do is find out 6 in Saskatchewan who is the comedy troop, fly them to 7 Toronto and have them do at least one episode of like 8 "Sketch Com", do "Sketch Com" again but, you know, go 9 up north, who is making them laugh up there. I swear 10 to you, there is a troop. I swear to you there is a 11 comedy group. I promise you there is because I have 12 seen them. And bring them to Toronto or wherever these 13 CBC facilities are, with costumes and props that they 14 are not using with technicians that know how to do this 15 stuff and do it. And you will get not just good sketch 16 comedy, but you will develop your sitcoms and from your 17 sitcoms you will develop your celebrities who can go on 18 to do movies. It won't be out of the goodness of your 19 heart, it will be because you want to see these people. 20 1316 That is the one problem about CBC, 21 sometimes you feel like, yeah you we want CBC but it is 22 for the right reasons, it is like eating good food. I 23 am tell telling you, it can taste like candy, it is 24 easy to do. 25 1317 I have worked in comedy now for about StenoTran 333 1 ten years and it always frustrated me to walk through 2 the CBC here and see all the costumes. 3 1318 There are just many rooms of costumes 4 and see all the technicians who are brilliant 5 technicians amazing crew and amazing facilities as it 6 has been said. And I always thought why could we not 7 do a sketch comedy show much like, say, "Almost Live" 8 does in Seattle about our city. And I approached CBC 9 about it and we are doing it and it has been done and 10 when the strike is over you will see it. But there is 11 no reason that that cannot be done across this country. 12 1319 You know, if we want to unify this 13 country there are three things that do it one is a 14 common enemy. Unless we want a war, that is not a good 15 thing. The States are good for that and also the 16 States are good because -- you know, second thing is if 17 your sports team is doing well, if our sports team is 18 doing well, everyone is Canadian, you know, for that 19 week and the third thing is laughter unites and so that 20 is my specific point. 21 1320 I think that something that CBC does 22 better than anyone, even look at the comedy network the 23 best shows they have on there are reruns of "Airfarce" 24 and "Kids in the Hall" and I guess that is pretty of 25 all I've got to say. Thank you. StenoTran 334 1 --- Applause / Applaudissements 2 1321 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 3 you very much. 4 1322 MS PINSKY: Danielle Arcand. 5 PRÉSENTATION / PRESENTATION 6 1323 MME ARCAND: Bonsoir. 7 1324 Je vais m'exprimer en français 8 simplement parce que c'est ma langue maternelle et puis 9 que je suis... j'apprécie beaucoup que vous soyiez ici 10 pour nous entendre, nous, des minorités francophones 11 hors-Québec. 12 1325 Parce que je crois que le rôle de la 13 Société Radio-Canada est en fait beaucoup de refléter 14 l'identité bilingue du Canada, et vous le faîtes 15 d'ailleurs par la présence de la Société Radio-Canada 16 du côté français. Et ici, à Vancouver, on apprécie ça 17 beaucoup, on sent, là, que c'est d'une importance 18 capitale. 19 1326 Et c'est important aussi que, parce 20 que la Société... parce que la télévision et la radio, 21 et je veux parler des deux éléments de façon combinée, 22 parce qu'il me semble que, en milieu minoritaire, les 23 deux aspects sont très importants, nous servent l'un 24 autant que l'autre, et sont deux façons de refléter 25 notre communauté de la façon la plus adéquate et que StenoTran 335 1 ce... En fait, on n'a pas de choix en terme de 2 télévision, en terme... en fait, très peu de choix, 3 quelques uns, mais très peu, donc, c'est vital pour 4 nous, la télévision et la radio. 5 1327 C'est quelque chose qui nous 6 accompagne et depuis longtemps, depuis ma petite 7 enfance, aussi j'entends les autres présentateurs qui 8 se réminiscent, là, l'importance de ce que Radio-Canada 9 représente pour tout le monde. 10 1328 C'est la même chose pour moi en tant 11 que francophone. Et c'est important que cette société 12 demeure une entité forte, une entité indépendante, 13 donc, capable de se tenir et de prendre des décisions 14 qui ne sont pas liées à des opinions politiques du 15 temps, qu'elle soit stable, qu'elle soit bien 16 subventionnée et qu'elle puisse refléter notre identité 17 en tant que pays. 18 1329 Maintenant, plus spécifiquement, 19 j'aimerais faire deux points principaux. Un sur la 20 diffusion, parce que je suis ici ce soir simplement 21 pour représenter le Conseil culturel et artistique de 22 la Colombie-Britannique qui est un organisme qui a pour 23 mandat de diffuser les créateurs, les artistes 24 francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. 25 1330 Alors, c'est important que la StenoTran 336 1 télévision et la radio servent justement à refléter nos 2 communautés et ce, partout dans la Province. Donc, 3 l'aspect de la diffusion partout en province pour nous 4 est très important, et la Société Radio-Canada est un 5 partenaire de toute première importance pour la 6 communauté artistique de Vancouver. 7 1331 C'est illustré dans les partenariats 8 que nous avons eu à date, avec le Gala provincial de la 9 chanson, où la Société Radio-Canada a mis ses locaux à 10 notre disposition, son expertise, technique et tout, et 11 pour diffuser les artistes francophones de la région, 12 de la province. 13 1332 C'est aussi évident avec les 14 partenariats, là, avec le festival d'été, par exemple, 15 et avec... enfin, on a eu des émissions récemment avec 16 le théâtre La seizième, enfin, tous les organismes 17 culturels comptent vraiment sur la Société Radio-Canada 18 pour diffuser leurs productions et donner un soutien à 19 leurs productions aussi. 20 1333 On aimerait voir, par exemple, les 21 coups de coeur francophones, peut-être les événements 22 qui se passent à Vancouver, diffusés à travers le 23 Canada pour que la communauté francophone de Vancouver 24 sorte un peu des limites de la Province et s'inscrive 25 dans la grande communauté canadienne, qu'elle se StenoTran 337 1 manifeste. 2 1334 J'ai l'impression que, du côté 3 francophone, on souffre peut-être de centrisme en terme 4 du Québec, et c'est un souhait de la communauté 5 francophone artistique ici qu'on soit soutenu dans nos 6 efforts de diffusion à travers le Canada. 7 1335 Mon deuxième point s'adresse 8 spécifiquement aux jeunes, et après avoir entendu la 9 présentation de monsieur Leblanc du Conseil scolaire, 10 c'est difficile pour moi, là, de porter deux chapeaux 11 parce que je suis enseignante aussi, et j'aimerais 12 appuyer son intervention parce que je la trouvais très 13 pertinente aussi. 14 1336 Mais ce qui m'interesse plus 15 particulièrement c'est que la télévision et la radio 16 francophones représentent la culture actuelle pour les 17 jeunes, et non pas des aspects, enfin des aspects 18 plutôt foklorisants, mais que les jeunes aient le moyen 19 de se reconnaître à travers ce qui est diffusé à la 20 télévision et à la radio. 21 1337 J'allais souligner comme l'a fait 22 monsieur Leblanc tantôt, les émissions pour les jeunes, 23 "275 Allo", et "Ado" et "Clandestin" qui sont des 24 exemples... d'excellents exemples de diffusion 25 nationale, c'est un effort d'aller dans toutes les StenoTran 338 1 régions et c'est à soutenir, c'est à poursuivre, de 2 même que "Le grand défi" et les émissions qui mettent 3 en... qui donnent la parole à nos jeunes, sont des 4 choses vraiment à considérer de poursuivre ou de 5 reformuler pour qu'elles correspondent à la réalité de 6 maintenant, des jeunes. 7 1338 Pour ce qui est de la catégorie des 8 jeunes, peut-être de 18 à 25 ans, bon, moi j'ai 9 identifié, là, comme ça, en mettant mes idées sur 10 papier, "Le Macadam tribu" qui est très intéressant 11 mais de mon point de vue à moi, d'adulte, maintenant je 12 ne sais pas qui l'écoute, comment les jeunes 13 s'identifient à ça. 14 1339 Pour ce qui est de la musique, le 15 contenu musical, oui, mais la formulation, la 16 présentation, je ne sais pas si vraiment les jeunes 17 embarquent, et en fait, ça serait à préciser. 18 1340 Je souligne aussi l'excellent travail 19 de André Rhéaume et le fait... j'apprécie énormément le 20 fait qu'une émission de cette qualité-là, de ce 21 calibre-là, puisse être diffusée en provenance de 22 Vancouver. Je pense que c'est un excellent appui, 23 encore une fois, la diffusion des musiques, pas 24 seulement francophones mais du monde, et ça nous fait 25 sentir, qu'en tant que francophones, on fait partie StenoTran 339 1 d'un grand... d'une grande communauté internationale. 2 1341 Mais on aimerait voir, c'est ça, 3 le... par exemple, le Gala de la chanson quand il est 4 diffusé localement, on aimerait voir les artistes 5 francophones de la région ici, diffusé pas seulement 6 régionalement, mais à travers la Province pour qu'ils 7 aient le sens de participer à la grande communauté 8 francophone transcanadienne. 9 1342 Encore une fois, la télévision est 10 très importante pour notre communauté, et la radio 11 aussi, parce que ce sont des... c'est la réalité 12 médiatique qui nous accompagne, nous ici, en français, 13 en Colombie-Britannique et dans toutes les régions 14 minoritaires du Canada. 15 1343 Donc, à poursuivre, et à voir des 16 émissions de toute horizon, de toutes les régions, 17 c'est vraiment apprécié et on espère que ça va 18 continuer de se produire. 19 1344 Merci beaucoup de votre temps et de 20 votre attention. 21 --- Applause / Applaudissements 22 1345 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci, madame Arcand, 23 merci. 24 1346 MS PINSKY: Mr. Peter Buitenhuis, I 25 apologize if I did not pronounce your name properly. StenoTran 340 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 1347 MR. BUITENHUIS: Peter Buitenhuis. I 3 am a professor of English at Simon Fraser but I am here 4 tonight not as a professor of English but as an 5 ordinary citizen like so many of us. And I feel that 6 there is in this room an enormous amount of emotional 7 commitment and intellectual pride in the CBC and we 8 have all expressed it and I am one more. We come not 9 to bury the CBC but to praise it. Let me add my praise 10 to the litany. 11 1348 The CBC in its present state in my 12 view, striking employees and uncertainty over its 13 future, because of a continuous cuts to its budget, the 14 policy of this government towards our public 15 broadcasting network seems to be, when in doubt, cut 16 and just to make sure the CBC understands, cut again. 17 I cannot help but feel that this government resents the 18 critical attitude often taken by CBC commentators which 19 I regard as a vital aspect of its mandate. 20 1349 In the 40 years that I have lived in 21 this country, I have been a devoted adherent to the 22 Corp., especially radio. From early "Rawhide" to late 23 "Gzosky". It gives us information and the questions 24 and the controversial issues that we need to make 25 decisions as informed citizens. StenoTran 341 1 1350 It also entertains us with comedy, 2 drama and talk shows on Radio One and musical and 3 cultural affairs on Radio Two. 4 1351 This service must be supported and 5 brought back to its appropriate level of funding which 6 it enjoyed up to the early 1990s. Anyone listening to 7 CBC radio now realizes how many programs are repeats of 8 previous programs, hiccups from the past as it were. 9 1352 This is the only way, apparently, 10 that the corporation can fill its air time. It is 11 regrettable, too, how much regional broadcasting has 12 suffered as a result of cuts which concentrates more 13 and more air time in the hands of Toronto. 14 1353 And I think that has been fairly 15 eloquently spoken here. We must reinforce the 16 Vancouver network from its present sorry state. 17 1354 The solution to this funding crisis 18 is emphatically not to privatize CBC radio. I find 19 listening to commercial radio annoying and often 20 sickening. I have no wish to be bombarded with 21 messages to buy this, that and the other thing for 22 which you have no need and we all know how commercial 23 sponsorship tends to be influence content. 24 1355 CBC radio must remain able to fulfil 25 its mandate free from both commercial and political StenoTran 342 1 control. Turning now to CBC TV which has received a 2 rather bad rap here tonight, I think in relation to 3 radio but I think it must be defended as a bastion of 4 their cultural values. 5 1356 A good deal of TV broadcasting is and 6 should be different from that provided from private 7 stations. 8 1357 Only CBC TV provides dramas and 9 documentaries that have a specific Canadian context. 10 Others dramas and sitcoms are written with Canadian 11 actors with Canadian situations but the CBC alone 12 addresses Canadian issues and vital issues. 13 1358 For example, the program on child 14 abuse in the "Boys of Saint Vincent", a splendid drama 15 which ripped the cover off a very sleazy episode in 16 Maritime history. Again, the program on the 17 preventable mine disaster in "Giant Mine", just to give 18 two examples of many. 19 1359 Again, under funding has put such 20 programs as this in jeopardy. CBC TV will be in even 21 worse shape next year after its grant from the Canadian 22 Television Fund is reduced from 50 per cent which is 23 now enjoys to only 33 per cent. 24 1360 In light of the increasing number of 25 channel licences being issued by the CRTC to private StenoTran 343 1 stations, you as members of the CRTC should consider 2 favourably the CBC's requests for additional stations 3 for specialized programming. So that its share of 4 channels does not proportionately diminish with 5 consequent loss of its share of views. Like many 6 Canadians, I am committed to the importance and the 7 integrity of Canadian culture which is more and more 8 threatened by American programming. 9 1361 Lastly, I am apprehensive about the 10 increasing domination of the TV channels by private and 11 commercial interests. 12 1362 In the present climate, the private 13 stations seem to me like sharks circling in the water 14 waiting for the good ship CBC to flounder or even sink 15 as its funding leaks away. The sharks cannot wait to 16 get their jaws around the considerable audience still 17 carried by CBC TV which represents to them more 18 customers, higher ratings, and, therefore, more dollars 19 for their programs. 20 1363 Comparatively few of these commercial 21 programs seem to me to be directed to a critical and 22 informed audience. A lot is terrible schlock. 23 1364 The CBC has a proud history in this 24 country in war and peace. Let it not flounder and sink 25 through indifference and neglect. Thank you. StenoTran 344 1 --- Applause / Applaudissements 2 1365 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 3 you very much, professor, thank you. 4 1366 MS PINSKY: Alma Lee is the next 5 presenter. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 1367 MS LEE: Thank you. I was brought up 8 in the U.K. with the BBC and it was a relief to listen 9 to the CBC when I first arrived in Canada 30 years ago. 10 1368 I prefer to listen to radio than 11 watch television without commercial interruption. And 12 public broadcasters are the only places where one can 13 do so. 14 1369 Despite that, I think that there are 15 some things at CBC both on radio and on television 16 which are better than they have ever been, despite all 17 the economic cuts and problems that have plagued the 18 corporation. 19 1370 As an active member of the arts 20 community, I know how much of a challenge it is to 21 continue to be innovative, especially in the area of 22 programming when one is confronted with funding cut 23 backs being particularly ones as serious as the ones 24 that have hit the CBC. And I think that CBC producers 25 right now are doing very well under extremely StenoTran 345 1 constrained circumstances, both with radio and with 2 television program and I thank them for that. 3 1371 As the artistic director of the 4 Vancouver International Writers' Festival, I am 5 particularly enthusiastic that B.C. books are 6 considered important enough to CBC viewers to actually 7 have a regionally produced book program booked on 8 Saturday night. This program is extremely supportive 9 of the Vancouver Writers' Festival without being in any 10 way promotional and has certainly grabbed readers. I 11 think it is also extremely important that this kind of 12 programming takes place to further the cause of 13 literacy. 14 1372 Writers who have appeared at the 15 Vancouver festival love the interviews they do with 16 Bill Richardson at "Booked on Saturday Night" and I 17 understand that the readings increased in the second 18 season and I trust that the CBC will be able to 19 continue to show this kind of regional initiative. 20 1373 I think that, as Peter said, you 21 know, the fact that the Vancouver region has been so 22 devastated is really a sad thing, but it is great that 23 at least this kind of regional programming is 24 happening. Also, the success of "Davinci's Inquest" 25 nationally is a credit to the CBC as a regionally StenoTran 346 1 produced television series. I must confess I am a bit 2 prejudiced here because one of my sons is one of the 3 editors on that show. 4 1374 However, I also believe having seen 5 the show on a regular basis that it has big 6 international potential and I think it is great for 7 B.C. and Vancouver that both are recognized in this 8 program for being what they are and not being presented 9 as pretend U.S. places. 10 1375 I just wanted to keep all my comments 11 quite short because I know that you have heard many 12 voices today and I thank you for allowing me to be one 13 of them. I trust that the commission will continue to 14 support the CBC and the quality and style of 15 programming which is unique to the corporation so let 16 us go forward being proud of our uniqueness and the 17 CBC's part in it. Thank you. 18 --- Applause / Applaudissements 19 1376 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 20 you, Mrs. Lee. 21 1377 MS PINSKY: The next presenter is Mr. 22 Rob Picard. 23 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 24 1378 MR. PICARD: Good evening, Madam 25 Chair and I, too, am a dedicated, lifelong his StenoTran 347 1 listener, almost half a century of CBC radio mostly. I 2 am pleased to be here and have the opportunity to 3 express also my enthusiastic support for the vital 4 cultural role which the CBC continues to play as 5 Canada's national public broadcaster. 6 1379 I also want to say at the outset how 7 distressed I am at the way the government has allowed a 8 national treasure, I did not realize that was Nolton 9 Nash's phrase, CBC's radio in particular to languish to 10 the extent that its very existence as we know it is in 11 peril because of a refusal to fund it adequately and 12 because of a government appointed board which does not 13 really want to understand the role of a national public 14 broadcaster. And not incidentally because there is no 15 obvious effective corporation champion in the federal 16 cabinet. 17 1380 How can the CBC hope to fulfil its 18 traditional mandate if it is so constrained that it 19 does not have the financial resources to resolve the 20 current labour disputes, risking even more audience 21 erosion? In an atmosphere like this, I don't know how 22 we can expect the CBC to prepare creatively for the 23 millennium which is one of the four questions that you 24 have raised in your December 18 announcement regarding 25 the staging of these public hearings or consultations. StenoTran 348 1 1381 My fear is that it cannot prepare 2 adequately, forcing the corporation to downsize yet 3 again and make even more painful structural changes in 4 the near future. 5 1382 It may that be CBC television in 6 particular cannot continue to try to be all things to 7 all viewers. Because it already enjoyed a much 8 deserved reputation for excellence in gathering and 9 presenting national and international news, I am going 10 to focus on this programming area for a minute or two 11 without specifically discussing regional or local news, 12 which is also important. 13 1383 If the CBC has a natural quality 14 programming edge in Canada, news has to be considered 15 as one of the most obvious examples although certainly 16 not the only one. News in particular needs nurturing 17 and enhancing including the ability to compete for the 18 best talent, too much of which we have already lost to 19 our powerful neighbours to the south, on competing 20 networks, usually. 21 1384 Although not the first such 22 retrenchment, the recent decision to eliminate several 23 foreign news bureaus is not only regrettable but 24 represents a retreat from covering the world in a way 25 that we should and need to be doing in an increasingly StenoTran 349 1 competitive global market to use that overworked 2 cliche. 3 1385 If we can retain existing operations, 4 and/or dispatch our foreign correspondents to more 5 places, the CBC should have the freedom to do this. 6 Even if it means having fewer faces and voices per 7 bureau as more rationalization of radio television and 8 linguistic services, i.e., between the CBC and Radio 9 Canada, more of that takes place. 10 1386 Even though is it has also faced 11 drastic restraints, the BBC World Service has managed 12 thankfully to maintain its news preeminence and so can 13 we. 14 1387 Closer to home, without having to 15 resort to pledge breaks, I hope not, perhaps CBC would 16 be willing to look to the PBS model in the U.S. for 17 some pragmatic solutions could, for example, blue 18 ribbon corporate sponsorships, this is for television, 19 generate a generous portion of the income which would 20 be lost if, let us say "The National" were now to for 21 go its undoubtedly lucrative advertising revenue which 22 is a relatively new source for the CBC. 23 1388 I think so. I think it could be 24 without infringing on our collective sensibilities and 25 in the process this would restore the pure quality and StenoTran 350 1 effect of our flagship national news cast which a lot 2 of us treasure. 3 1389 If the CBC would consider making 4 Newsworld even more of a specialty service than it now 5 is, and at the risk of being labeled as an elitist in 6 that regard, I would like to see a Canadian version of 7 "The Newshour" which is a very well known program on 8 PBS for serious news viewers. And just -- just to 9 summarize what it does, it has 60 minutes of lively 10 panel discussions anchored by a variety of hosts and 11 includes various features and documentaries. 12 1390 Of course, there is a news summary 13 and a recap, but this is a small component of a much 14 larger package. If I were a CBC programmer, I would 15 put it on the network at 7 p.m. after all the other 16 competing and non-competing news casts are over. It 17 could even be an alternative to the national at 10 on 18 Newsworld if Pamela Wallin would be willing to 19 accommodate that move. Or at 11, but and it could be 20 designed to complement "The National" and not compete 21 with "The National" and "The Magazine". 22 1391 Just back to CBC radio for a minute 23 at the national level, it fulfills as we all know a 24 critical service which commercial radio cannot and will 25 not provide except for some specialty FM stations here StenoTran 351 1 and there usually in the major urban areas of our 2 country. If private radio would demonstrate that it 3 could produce quality music programs, for example, such 4 as on stage "In Performance", "After Hours" or "Choral 5 Concert", either commercial free or with just brief, 6 this is commercial radio now, brief corporate 7 sponsorship mentions which is what something that NPR 8 does in the U.S., I would be resting a little more 9 easily about the fate of CBC radio but I have not seen 10 or heard that yet or anything like that as a matter of 11 fact. 12 1392 If anything, the programming between 13 our two cultures is becoming more sharply 14 differentiated and the gap, the culture gap between 15 public and private radio in this country is actually 16 wider now than it was before which helps to make the 17 case, I believe, for maintaining the CBC's fiscal and 18 programming integrity. 19 1393 As for the CBC board of directors, it 20 is definitely time to reform the employment process and 21 include a variety of special interests and amongst whom 22 should be advocates of public broadcasting, themselves, 23 ourselves, as part of that selection process. 24 1394 If the finance minister would free up 25 some cash to expedite an early resolution to the StenoTran 352 1 current labour disputes, make a credible commitment to 2 stable, long term funding and a realistic one, too, and 3 then take seriously the wide-ranging advice which he is 4 or will be receiving as a result of these national 5 public consultations, then the CBC, I believe, will 6 actually be in a position to carve out its own distinct 7 identity and perhaps even ensure its own survival. Let 8 us all hope so. Thank you. 9 --- Applause / Applaudissements 10 1395 MS PINSKY: Ms Heather Leighton is 11 the next presenter. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 1396 MS LEIGHTON: Thank you for providing 14 me with this opportunity to speak with you. My remarks 15 will be directed towards CBC Radio One which will 16 become evident why I am doing this as I go along. 17 1397 I am a child of the isolated B.C. 18 mining camps. In rural B.C., the radio was and still 19 is the link with the rest of the country and the world. 20 1398 In the 1930s, my father, with the aid 21 of a huge aerial, established radio contact with the 22 station in San Francisco. At the age of three, I knew 23 that KPO spelled San Francisco. 24 1399 During the war years, CBC spelled 25 Vancouver and beyond Vancouver, Canada and the world. StenoTran 353 1 1400 Nothing could interrupt the 9 o'clock 2 news. Saturday night was foster Hewitt. Saturday 3 afternoon, mom had the opera and weekly mornings, "The 4 Happy Gang". 5 1401 I became an urban listener in 1956 6 and raised my children to the sounds of this country in 7 the morning and the squook bird. You may not know that 8 every morning, several little squooks are heard 9 followed by ten seconds of silence when a mommy squook 10 comes on and announced that it is cookie time. This is 11 an unintended but very important function in our house. 12 1402 As a busy mother of four pre-school 13 children and later when they were in school I would 14 have been unable to maintain a concept of what was 15 happening across Canada without the morning programs 16 and the news coverage provided by CBC radio. 17 1403 Today the nest is empty. I am 18 retired. Radio continues to play an important part in 19 my life. I live for seven months of the year in a 20 rural community where my contact with the rest of 21 Canada is the radio and the only radio is CBC. There 22 is a TV system which I pay tax to maintain, but which I 23 am unable to access due to my location on the lake. 24 1404 With this background as a committed 25 CBC listener who credits CBC radio with saving my StenoTran 354 1 sanity and sense of perspective as a Canadian through 2 the maze of my child rearing PTA meeting volunteering 3 and later works years, I now address the questions 4 suggested by the commission. 5 1405 How well does the CBC fulfil its role 6 as a national public broadcaster? The CBC, for as long 7 as I can remember has been my window on Canada and the 8 world. Over the past few years, I have been 9 discomforted by the decrease in the quantity and 10 quality of that coverage. I miss the foreign coverage 11 provided from a Canadian view point from the now closed 12 overseas bureaus. Nationally, we still get news from 13 coast to coast, but national news generated in Toronto 14 frequently requires an update when rebroadcast 15 unchanged in B.C. three-hours later. 16 1406 As the national broadcaster, I 17 believe CBC is the appropriate venue for an analysis of 18 regional, national and world developments. What effect 19 will these developments have on me, my region, my 20 province, other provinces, Canada and the world? I 21 would appreciate hearing informed debate from Canadian 22 view points. It is my impression this type of debate 23 occurred on radio in the past and now is almost 24 non-existent. 25 1407 How well does the CBC fulfil its StenoTran 355 1 role? I would give it three and a half out of five. 2 There are times of excellence, "The World at 6", "as it 3 Happens", "Ideas", "The House", "The World This 4 Weekend" and others. But in the face of constant 5 budget cuts, excellent programs are downgraded to 6 mediocre. I am not motivated by nostalgia, I am not 7 pleading for a return of "Morningside" or "Sunday 8 Morning". I believe that current employees provided 9 with adequate journalistic, financial, technical and 10 research support are capable of returning our public 11 broadcaster to at least the 4.9 out of 5 it held in the 12 past. 13 1408 A return to excellence should be the 14 objective of the new millennium. 15 --- Applause / Applaudissements 16 1409 MS LEIGHTON: CBC has been mandated 17 to counter the forces of regional alienation. That 18 alienation often seems most evident in rural areas. I 19 suggest that improved world coverage would serve to 20 provide Canadians living in the hinterland an 21 understanding and appreciation of the facts, stories 22 and visions of our unique aspirations and culture. 23 1410 I ask: How can Canadians develop a 24 concept of what it means to be Canadian if all 25 Canadians are not kept apprised of what is happening StenoTran 356 1 across the country and around the world, including 2 analysis of what these events mean both locally and 3 nationally. 4 1411 Evidence of reduced funding for 5 regional programming is constantly revealed. If CBC 6 radio is the only option, repeat programs are an 7 increasingly evident fact of life. 8 1412 Hourly news broadcasts cease to be 9 news when they are word-for-word repeats for most of 10 the day. 11 1413 Weather forecasts unalterred from 12 hour to hour are unhelpful when a glance out the window 13 proves their inaccuracy. Weekends are almost devoid of 14 local news. 15 1414 In Vancouver, the weekday early 16 morning program provides a satisfying view of local and 17 provincial issues, not so in rural B.C. In Goldbridge, 18 where I live over half the year, there is a small radio 19 repeater. I can access the speaker but many living in 20 the area have the signal blocked by mountain ridges. 21 In the evening, the signal is too weak to overcome the 22 many garbled transmissions that come on occasion from 23 as far as way as Texas. Once it gets dark, the radio 24 gets weird. We even pick up an echo, probably from the 25 Lillooet CBC transmitter which broadcasts on the same StenoTran 357 1 frequency as Goldbridge. Radio Two is not available 2 and I understand that this is the case in most of rural 3 B.C. 4 1415 Our morning program originates from 5 Kelowna and in the summer from Kelowna and Prince 6 George or from Prince George and Prince Rupert. This 7 program is charged with covering far too big an area. 8 Aside from advising us that once again our road is 9 closed, often with incorrect information, we hear 10 nothing of local interest or concern unless Lillooet 11 was the hottest place in Canada. 12 1416 Our transmitter ceased to operate 13 five minutes before the leaders' debate was due to 14 start prior to the last federal election. Service was 15 not restored for several days. We missed the debate, 16 there are those who say we are lucky, but we missed the 17 debate and we missed any subsequent analysis of the 18 debate. 19 1417 Why in the Vancouver phone book there 20 is an 800 number to call for technical fault reporting. 21 There is no such number in Goldbridge where we have 22 technical faults all the time. 23 1418 In fact, there is no listing for CBC 24 found in any of the four communities in the Lillooet 25 Litton area phone book. Should a local event occur of StenoTran 358 1 interest to the rest of the province, there is no easy 2 access to CBC to advise the network of the event. 3 1419 The noon show from Vancouver does 4 make an effort to bring the issues of rural B.C. to the 5 attention of the whole province. However, at a time 6 inconvenient for many. 7 1420 I suggest it is of paramount 8 importance to strengthen the regional programming and 9 transmission capabilities of the corporation. For 10 safety reasons, all rural residents must have access to 11 accurate, up to date weather and road conditions. In 12 the interests of national and provincial unity, and 13 understanding, all rural residents must have access to 14 accurate, up to date reports on the events across the 15 province and the nation. 16 1421 If anyone thinks that private 17 broadcasters have any commitment to fulfils these 18 needs, rural B.C., I can only say give your head a 19 shake, examine the record. 20 --- Applause / Applaudissements 21 1422 MS LEIGHTON: Should the programming 22 provided by CBC radio be different from that provided 23 by other broadcasters? In my view, the CBC's candidate 24 is to sell Canada, its perspectives, its values and its 25 culture to Canadians. Commercial broadcasters' mission StenoTran 359 1 is to sell tooth paste to the toothless and the value 2 of the multinationals to us all. 3 1423 The programming provided by CBC must 4 be different and that difference requires the support 5 of all Canadians. 6 1424 I urge the CRTC to encourage the 7 government to reverse the drastic reductions in funding 8 that has occurred over the past decade. I ask also 9 that the CRTC remind the government of the original 10 mandate of the CBC and require of the government to 11 fulfil that mandate. 12 1425 Private broadcasters locked in a 13 battle to attract listeners and advertising dollars 14 provide sensational, often irrelevant news coverage. 15 1426 A mother and children murdered in the 16 southern U.S., a deranged teen shooting up a school 17 yard in California, speculation on what the U.S. 18 president is doing tonight and with whom. 19 1427 The CBC should provide a different 20 view. 21 1428 Why are the sexual activities of 22 president Clinton the lead story in the national news? 23 Unless the U.S. president's actions affect Canadian 24 foreign policy, or U.S. attitudes to Canada, I suggest 25 these items be relegated to the end of the broadcast to StenoTran 360 1 be dropped if displaced by reports of important 2 developments in Canada or Canadian communities. 3 --- Applause / Applaudissements 4 1429 MS LEIGHTON: CBC must stand apart 5 from private broadcasters as an organization dedicated 6 to keeping Canadians Canadian and to instilling a love 7 for the Canadian Commonwealth. 8 1430 Is there a special role for the 9 CBC -- is there a special role that the CBC should play 10 in the presentation of Canadian broadcasting -- 11 programming? Without the CBC, what medium will tell 12 Canadians about other Canadians? What medium will 13 provide a show case for Canadian artistic talent? What 14 medium will provide a cross country and panpolitical 15 analysis of world events from our view point? Yes, 16 there is a special role for CBC to play and that role 17 must be adequately funded. Without that role, and 18 without that funding, we are, to quote Darryl Duke: 19 Lost, doomed to be a pathetic northern territory of the 20 holy American empire and, I add, pawns of the 21 multinational corporate agenda. 22 --- Applause / Applaudissements 23 1431 MS LEIGHTON: When I was three, I 24 knew KPO spelled San Francisco. As a young adult, I 25 felt CBC spelled Vancouver and Canada. Without StenoTran 361 1 political support, and a major increase in funding of 2 both local and national programming, and a commitment 3 to the developing and producing of original Canadian 4 view points and art, CBC will no longer spell Canada to 5 me. Thank you. 6 --- Applause / Applaudissements 7 1432 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 8 you very much. 9 1433 MS PINSKY: Mr. Bill Beck is the next 10 presenter. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 1434 MR. BECK: I see the CBC as being 13 important with all that helps to hold this country 14 together. Now, I have already lost much of the 15 railway, the value of both railways, CN and CP 16 because -- any way that is another point, another 17 story. 18 1435 I was very much maddened by the 19 promise of our Prime Minister that there was going to 20 be stable funding for the -- for this broadcaster and 21 then lo and behold, as they say, in the following 22 years, after he got elected, further cuts occurred. 23 1436 Now, to be sure, CBC seems to have 24 done an heroic job of putting out fairly high quality 25 programming with the money that they have got left. StenoTran 362 1 But I have been disappointed as to what has been 2 dropped over the last 13 years. 3 1437 For example, "The Medicine Show" on 4 Wednesday evening, "The Food Show" on Sunday morning, 5 "12:30 almanac", agricultural details like they 6 mentioned, you know, various live stock and feeder 7 cattle and that sort of thing. And along with a very 8 high grade weather forecast that John Pachalt was 9 putting on. 10 1438 We have lost "Gilmore's Albums" now 11 it is true that is because Mr. Gilmore died, but the 12 least we could have done is perhaps get someone else to 13 carry that on. Because that was very good. 14 1439 What we have got in its place is, in 15 my opinion, very often kind of banal although I guess, 16 you know, "The Vinyl Cafe", Stuart McLean does a 17 reasonably good job but is my personal feeling that it 18 was not nearly as good as what it replaced -- what was 19 replaced by it. 20 1440 But I am of the same opinion that a 21 lot of other people who have spoken so far that private 22 commercial radio cannot begin to supply the kind of 23 quality broadcasting that CBC does when their mind is 24 always -- minds are always on the bottom line and 25 making a profit. StenoTran 363 1 1441 I've been talking about radio so far. 2 Now, as far as the CBC TV is concerned, I do not watch 3 TV but I still think it should be kept and it should be 4 improved. Like, there are a lot of good programs on 5 like "The Nature Of Things" that I have heard about 6 that are uniquely Canadian and probably do a very good 7 job of educating. 8 1442 Other TV shows like there could be 9 what, the remaining 499 channels, they have got nothing 10 on I would not be surprised, just idle soap operas and 11 a lot of other trash that is bent purely on 12 entertainment and then with long commercial breaks that 13 encourage people to buy more and more stuff that they 14 probably cannot use winds up in a dump, et cetera, more 15 and more larger polluting vehicles. 16 1443 I remember the happy memories of CBUT 17 programming going back to the 50s, I remember the 18 "Maggie Muggins", for example, and they probably had a 19 lot of other things, they have got a lot of educational 20 shows on in the morning just when I had to go to school 21 which was probably -- probably would have given me a 22 far better education watching it on TV than in the 23 classroom where I was half asleep any ways. 24 1444 My feeling is that they should -- 25 CRTC should get back to the Prime Minister and this is StenoTran 364 1 to echo what is been said earlier this evening and 2 badger him, badger the daylights out of him if 3 necessary to restore the regional funding to the CBC 4 like promised, as he promised. Because after all, he 5 might lose his driver's licence too, one day and he 6 will -- maybe even his eyesight and he will want to 7 listen to the CBC. Eyesight is often the first thing 8 that goes when you get older and the Prime Minister is 9 already in the middle of his seventh decade of life. 10 So it is in his own best interest to restore funding. 11 1445 Thank you very much, I am afraid that 12 is all I have to say I have not really prepared very 13 well at all. Thanks for having me on. 14 --- Applause / Applaudissements 15 1446 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 16 you very much and we rate you as a great supporter. 17 Thank you. 18 1447 MS PINSKY: Mrs. Stewart Muldoon. 19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 20 1448 MS MULDOON: Thank you very much for 21 this opportunity to speak to you this evening about the 22 subject of the CBC. In your questionnaire you ask us 23 in your view how well does the CBC fulfil its role as a 24 national public broadcaster. I would say that it does 25 as well as can be expected with the limited funds that StenoTran 365 1 it has. It continues to have extremely high standards 2 and provide tremendous entertainment and enlightenment, 3 but I would urge the federal government and the CRTC to 4 give the message to the politicians in Ottawa to 5 increase the funding to the CBC. It is crucial to the 6 survival of our country and our culture. 7 1449 The question that you asked in the 8 new millennium, should the CBC fulfil its role in a 9 different manner than it has in the past, I think it 10 should continue as it has but also expand its regional 11 and local and national programming. I would have an 12 idea for the CBC TV that it would broadcast a lot of 13 local productions both of local dramas, local ballet or 14 dance productions and musical events. 15 1450 I know that often we will read or 16 hear about a wonderful play going on in Victoria or 17 perhaps in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, there was a play 18 recently I called about called paper wheat, probably 19 taking place on the Prairies. I would have loved to 20 have seen that production. And to take a CBC TV crew 21 into these local productions and film them for all of 22 Canada or for at least the local or regional population 23 to view would be tremendous, a tremendous pleasure and 24 gift to Canadians and also a great impetus to 25 encouraging and letting Canadians know about our StenoTran 366 1 artists, such as the gentleman over here has suggested. 2 1451 Then the question is asked how well 3 does the CBC serve the public on a regional as well as 4 a national level and I think I have probably answered 5 that with my previous comment that I would like to see 6 this expanded both in the terms of arts and also in 7 perhaps possibly political arena and then certainly in 8 cultural and social events that are going on in the 9 community to advertise those and make people in the 10 area aware of when he is going on and to talk to 11 prominent people on the -- people who are prominent on 12 the local level as well as the national and regional 13 level that we would very seldom get an opportunity to 14 do on commercial radio or TV. 15 1452 Let us see, the other questions are 16 to see whether your needs and expectations as listeners 17 and viewers of the CBC. My need is for the CBC to 18 continue, particularly for the radio. 19 1453 I have to confess where I watch most 20 of the presentations and programs from the CBC. But I 21 know that the CBC TV are doing a wonderful job also in 22 programs like their autobiographies of prominent 23 Canadians, "Life and Times", for example, "The Nature 24 of Things", the science programmes such as "Nature of 25 Things" and the comedy programs that have been referred StenoTran 367 1 to as well as the national news. 2 1454 So we need to have the CBC continue 3 and I expect and my expectation is that it will 4 continue and expand and my demand of the federal 5 government is that it does continue and expand. 6 1455 So that is just to answer those 7 specific questions. I hope that it has been of some 8 use. 9 1456 I want to watch the time here. My 10 background is I have travelled from Canada -- in Canada 11 from upon venture in Newfoundland, where the Vikings 12 landed, through Prince Edward Island, the Gaspé, 13 Halifax, Cape Breton Island, and I have done this with 14 my family, not just by myself, at my initiative, into 15 Quebec onto the Island of Montreal where I grew up and 16 learned to speak French, into the wonderful area of 17 Muskoka, down to the wonderful Niagara-on-the-Lake to 18 see theatre there, into Fort William and the majesty of 19 Lake Superior onto the Prairies, Regina, on to Jasper 20 and Lake Louise, magnificent, and onto the Dinosaur 21 Park on to Barkerville, in B.C. where we have the 22 history of the gold miners there and on to Tofino on 23 beautiful Vancouver Island as well as Stanley Park and 24 other wonderful spots across this country. 25 1457 We have a magnificent country. I StenoTran 368 1 have a master of library science from UBC so I 2 appreciate the literature that is reviewed on the CBC. 3 I am a former member of City Council in my community so 4 I enjoy the political coverage and I have -- I am an 5 owner of a family business that has operated for over 6 20 years and employs something like 20 to 30 people and 7 so I enjoy national news and business coverage as well. 8 1458 So I speak from all that background 9 for my great love for the CBC and I believe that the 10 CBC is the heart of Canada, it is the voice of Canada 11 and, as others have said, it is the glue that keeps 12 Canada together. It is absolutely essential to our 13 country and to our culture and to our identity. It is 14 intellectual manna, if you like. 15 1459 We do not want to be drowned and 16 awash with American trite, violent, abusive music and 17 programs. It accesses and it brings its enlightenment 18 and entertainment to large and small communities as 19 people have already said here. It touches people of 20 all ages whether it is "Mr. Dressup", whom I adore, and 21 "Maggie Mullins" which I do remember. Hard sometimes 22 to admit that but I remember gathering around the radio 23 as a family and listening to radio programs such as 24 "Maggie Mullins". It was a wonderful time when I 25 listened to and watched "The Family Pluff", absolutely StenoTran 369 1 wonderful when we lived in Montreal and it gave me a 2 sense of what French Canadians are and nothing else 3 could have done that. 4 1460 It probably drove my desire to learn 5 French and I learned French from speaking with the 6 local people on the Island of Montreal not in the 7 school system that is how I learned it and it was 8 probably things like that show that inspired that, that 9 made me comfortable to try that. 10 1461 So it gives people, as has been said, 11 the elderly, too, the shut-ins, imagine all these 12 people who have limited financial means, the elderly 13 particularly, perhaps, who can turn on the radio and be 14 in touch with their fellow Canadians and have that 15 tremendous culture and enlightenment of what is going 16 on in their world. It is invaluable. 17 1462 It provides access to excellent 18 quality in music, whether it is listening to Holgar 19 Peterson on "Saturday Night Live" driving home from a 20 Saturday night hockey game and just enjoying the rhythm 21 of the music or listening to drama or the wonderful 22 books in print I think it is called that is probably 23 not the right title but the wonderful program on radio 24 perhaps someone can help me with the name, "Writers and 25 Company". Wonderful program. StenoTran 370 1 1463 The dramas, the science "Quirks and 2 Quarks", absolutely wonderful program that we will get 3 know where else and no one else will fill that void. 4 1464 There was a statement said here 5 tonight someone else will come in and fill it. I know 6 in my heart that nobody else will fill that void that 7 the CBC is doing now. Either in radio or in television 8 so we have to have it continue and give it the funding 9 so that it can expand. We have tremendous talent in 10 the technicians but also in the artists in the writers, 11 in the philosophers in the scientists such as David 12 Suzuki. Let us expose Canadians to more of these 13 people and artists and production as I've already 14 mentioned a little bit about. 15 1465 The French language network and the 16 Canadian -- the English speaking networks, too, are 17 very essential to give people of these different 18 language background in Canada hopefully an unbiased 19 opinion of what is going on in each part of the country 20 so that we do not rely on the press in Quebec to 21 interpret the rest of Canada to the people, the French 22 speaking people in Quebec and vice versa. 23 1466 And as presenters said today, as best 24 as I was able to understand them, and I think it was 25 fairly well, thank goodness, it is essential to the StenoTran 371 1 French speaking people of this country to make them 2 feel at home across this country that they are tied in 3 with their culture and that they are being supported in 4 their culture and learning about the world in terms of 5 their own culture and language. 6 1467 Let me see here. It is also very 7 valuable, as I think one of the presenters has already 8 said for emersion, French emersion students to have 9 this, the television and the radio as sources of 10 current vibrant communication in both languages. 11 1468 A lot of people like myself do not 12 watch TV or want to spend hours sitting in front of a 13 computer on the Internet and using that new technology 14 to be so called informed. We all know how much garbage 15 apparently there is on the Internet and how hard it is 16 to find something worthwhile. So a lot of people like 17 do not want to watch TV or do not do so either by 18 choice or by lifestyle or because they are travelling a 19 great deal on the roads. 20 1469 The radio is so easy. You just turn 21 it on, you can be doing anything, you can be washing 22 the floor, changing diapers, driving a truck, painting 23 a house and you will be informed and enlightened. 24 1470 The CBC is a national treasure, I 25 wish Peter Gzosky were still here I wish Vicky Gabereau StenoTran 372 1 were here. When they had their programs it was like a 2 village notice board we knew what was going on every 3 where in the country and people were in tears when 4 Peter Gzosky resigned. You have no idea the amount of 5 emotion and we all know he was like a rock hero, every 6 one turned out. 7 1471 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: We 8 live in Canada, too. 9 1472 MS MULDOON: Excuse me. Perhaps you 10 were in tears, also, because we just loved him and I 11 miss him tremendously and I have to say my least 12 favourite part of CBC radio is the two hours with Bill 13 Richardson that is the only time I turn off CBC. If 14 anyone else agrees with me please clap because I tell 15 you that man, he has his charms, but to listen to it 16 day after day for two hours at a time, it wears very 17 thin. And the programming is listening to someone in 18 Moose Jaw talk about their broken washing machine. I 19 want to hear about national news, I want to hear about 20 exciting things of merit not something I would hear on 21 a phone in line. 22 1473 Anyway, so that to me is the weakest 23 part and it is the only time in my life I have ever 24 turned off CBC believe me I do and I do it with great 25 sadness be of that of be that of whatever merit or StenoTran 373 1 importance. 2 1474 The CBC offers a tremendous 3 opportunity as has already been talked about for us to 4 educate Canadians about our past, our present and our 5 future. Whether it is talking about the history of the 6 courier de bois or the Ukrainians coming out to the 7 Prairies, the Red River Scottish settlers, let us use 8 the TV, our wonderful writers to write stories and 9 autobiographies and historical accounts of our past. 10 Let us have more about science and Canadian literature, 11 let us have some stories with on the television, too, 12 of Canadian authors, children's authors or whatever 13 reading their stories for children. 14 1475 Really, the opportunity is endless 15 and very, very exciting and tremendously worthwhile. 16 1476 Let me see here. And as others have 17 said, we need it to counter the bombardment we have 18 from the U.S. media and the corporations in the 19 multinational corporations particularly coming out of 20 the U.S. 21 1477 It is our most precious -- the CBC is 22 our most precious cultural heritage it is vibrant it is 23 living it encompasses the past, the present and the 24 future and it is tremendously important to us. 25 1478 I think we should as others have StenoTran 374 1 suggested we examine the re-examine the appointments of 2 the caretakers of the CBC because they have a 3 tremendously valuable entity that they are to care for 4 us. 5 1479 I think we should increase regional 6 budgets and in-house productions on a regional and 7 local level. The CBC, as I've mentioned, has 8 tremendous work for isolated individuals and isolated 9 communities. 10 1480 The TV and the radio give 11 tremendous -- as has been suggested again give 12 tremendous cultural enlightenment and entertainment to 13 people away from cosmopolitan areas, cities such as 14 Toronto Montreal or Vancouver who cannot get in to see 15 jazz or musical presentations. We deserve that, to be 16 in contact with that culture and information and 17 current affairs. 18 1481 I would suggest that to increase the 19 flow between the CBC and the public that we create an 20 800 number where people can call in with their ideas 21 for programming foreperson they will and for comments 22 and also that perhaps the CBC present public semiannual 23 or annual reports and advertise them as being available 24 gratis, free of charge, on request so that we are aware 25 of what is going on with our beloved and tremendously StenoTran 375 1 important CBC. 2 1482 Also, I would suggest, too, that the 3 people at CBC examine public broadcasting systems 4 elsewhere in the world so that we can people I've 5 mentioned, the BBC, let us look at other public 6 broadcasting across -- throughout the world and see if 7 we can borrow the best ideas and help improve 8 ourselves. 9 1483 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: 10 Excuse me, Mrs. Stuart, could you summarize, please? 11 Because it has been 15 minutes and it has been a long 12 day for many of us. 13 1484 MS MULDOON: Thank you very much, 14 Merci beaucoup. 15 1485 Rather than talking about the death 16 of the CBC, none of us will tolerate that. We are just 17 a small representation here. Canadians feel 18 passionately about the CBC, it is our friend, it such 19 touches our nerve, our souls, our mind. And rather 20 than talking about its diminution, I talk about the 21 expansion of excellence, not a return to excellence but 22 an expansion of excellence and I urge and demand on 23 behalf of all Canadians of all cultures of all ages of 24 all regions to put forward and I put forward a demand 25 for this expansion of the CBC. StenoTran 376 1 1486 Let me see. In conclusion I would 2 just say that it is again say to you that it is our 3 most precious cultural heritage and people speak of the 4 impending death of the CBC, all I can say is that we 5 shall not let it die. It is too important. Thank you 6 very much. 7 --- Applause / Applaudissements 8 1487 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Thank 9 you. 10 1488 MS PINSKY: Ms Sinéed Fostad. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 1489 MS FOSTAD: Thank you. Good evening, 13 excuse me, it dawned on me this morning with some 14 amusement that I would not likely be alive today if it 15 hadn't been for the CBC. I have been thinking about 16 how much the CBC has been part of my life and about how 17 it permeated my childhood when on Sundays the entire 18 house vibrated with music as dad cranked up the radio, 19 tuned into the CBC. I have been thinking about how 20 today, as good traditions are passed from one 21 generation to the next. It is our daughters who 22 conduct the symphonies on their way to school in the 23 car. The following arts report which, if I have heard 24 the entire report means the girls are late for school, 25 keeps me connected to the many passions that fill my StenoTran 377 1 life. 2 1490 Often times my drama instrumental, 3 visual arts students have benefited from some gem of 4 relevance scooped from this program. 5 1491 I admired the CBC for valuing other 6 people's words when a fellow member of the Northshore 7 Writers' Association read to us their award winning 8 literacy -- literary piece which had been broadcast 9 over the CBC radio. And I was also thinking about how 10 I feel more connected to people throughout the province 11 after having watched broadcast one. 12 1492 Regional in-depth reporting is 13 presented in such a way as to allow a more human 14 element of the story to surface. Most recently our 15 family was involved directly with broadcast one. The 16 CBC followed the progress of our daughter through a 17 pilot research project, the results of which had the 18 possibility of helping physically disabled children. 19 1493 After collecting footage for over a 20 two-year period, instead of a short blurb appearing on 21 the nightly news, broadcast one ran a mini documentary 22 skillfully edited which interwoven factual material, 23 information with the emotional element of a child 24 taking their first steps. 25 1494 Erica Johnson, the StenoTran 378 1 director-interviewer was sensitive to our wish not to 2 sensationalize this new walking device. The 3 documentary also served to demystify some of our 4 special needs population by showing the human side of 5 social interaction and inclusion. 6 1495 Furthermore, this exposure helped to 7 promote the development of a program enabling access to 8 all children of B.C. and people all over the province 9 were connected to information they might never have 10 received otherwise. 11 1496 The results were life changing. The 12 first five children are up and walking. These are 13 children confined to wheelchairs. The CBC did a good 14 deed. 15 1497 For the future I would like to see 16 the CBC continue to put a human spin on news. I would 17 like to see them continue to connect the country the 18 way they have in the past through their reporting. 19 1498 I would like to see them present more 20 news of our northern Canadians and First Nations 21 people. I don't know if there exists right now but I 22 would like to perhaps see a youth-run program, CBC 23 program. I think the youth is very important to this 24 country and the future of the CBC. 25 1499 And I would also like not to see the StenoTran 379 1 CBC adopt the more recent adolescent roving moving 2 camera technique which makes me physically nauseous. 3 --- Applause / Applaudissements 4 1500 MS FOSTAD: After about 30 seconds I 5 want to give the camera man a tripod. I switch the 6 channel. 7 1501 I owe a bit of a thank you to the CBC 8 being probably a big one. Evidently, a tall, good 9 looking man in the bass section became enamoured with a 10 striking redhead in the alto section during a live 11 Sunday CBC broadcast of choral music. Ultimately the 12 CBC experienced a substantial increase in their fan 13 club after these two met, four other siblings and I 14 were born. So, in closing, I would like to say that 15 because the CBC has always been a part of my life, it 16 has been -- it has become a part of me. 17 1502 Because I identify the CBC as being 18 Canadian, I cannot imagine being Canadian without it. 19 So I truly support the CBC. Thank you very much. 20 1503 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: You 21 very much. 22 1504 MS PINSKY: Those are all the 23 presenters for this evening, Madam Chair. 24 1505 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: If 25 the CBC is present if they wish to respond. StenoTran 380 1 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 2 1506 MR. MONTAGUE: Merci, madame la 3 Présidente. 4 1507 Rassurez-vous, d'abord, la journée a 5 été fort intéressante mais comme vous l'avez dit 6 tantôt, fort longue aussi donc, mes commentaires seront 7 brefs. 8 1508 My name is Lyle Montague. I am a 9 representative of the French television stations in 10 Western Canada, la télévision française dans l'Ouest 11 canadien, for small but vital stations to paraphrase 12 someone on the CBC. But I am also speaking on behalf 13 of my regional network colleagues who were here today. 14 We were here to listen and we heard many voices. We 15 heard some very passionate voices and much of what we 16 heard was very positive, and that was heartening. 17 Indeed, we heard some wonderful tributes to the 18 excellence of the people that put our programs to air, 19 both on radio and television, in French and English, 20 and we fully share those opinions. 21 1509 We heard some thoughtful, intelligent 22 criticisms as well. And sometimes criticism is hard to 23 take, but I like to believe that we are open minded 24 enough to know that growth and change is only -- it is 25 maybe not impossible without constructive criticism but StenoTran 381 1 it is certainly more difficult. So we will learn from 2 those criticisms. 3 1510 Many important issues were raised and 4 I will not begin to respond to them tonight, but I 5 would like to assure each presenter that we will be 6 responding directly to each individual and each group 7 that made a presentation this morning, this afternoon, 8 this evening and tomorrow morning. 9 1511 In the meantime I would just like to 10 say how grateful we are to everyone who took the time 11 and effort to come out to respond to the invitation of 12 the CBC and speak out on CBC and Radio-Canada. 13 1512 Quelques petits mots, en terminant, 14 aux gens qui ont fait une présentation qui traitait 15 spécifiquement de la radio française dans l'Ouest pour 16 leur dire que nous sommes très, très, conscients du 17 rôle spécial de Radio-Canada comme producteur, comme 18 unique producteur en langue française dans l'Ouest, et 19 que nous continuons à vouloir travailler avec ces 20 gens-là, les communautés, pour mieux répondre aux 21 besoins multiples d'une communauté en situation 22 minoritaire. 23 1513 I think I will just leave it at that, 24 Madam Chairperson, thank you very much. 25 --- Applause / Applaudissements StenoTran 382 1 1514 CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMISSION: Merci 2 beaucoup. That concludes our evening and our day of 3 consultation. 4 1515 I want to remind you of a few 5 important dates as I have explained at the beginning of 6 the session this consultation is part of the public 7 process conducting to the renewal of the licences of 8 the CBC. The application for those renewals will be 9 gazetted on the 27th of March. So we will be available 10 for you if you want to take reading of it and if you 11 want to pursue your intervention of today with further 12 written intervention, you will have until the 30th of 13 April to do so. 14 1516 The hearing will be held in Hull from 15 the 25th of May to the 11th of June and you can be 16 assured that your comments today and the ones of all 17 the Canadians who feel the importance of the role of 18 the CBC that we have heard in 11 cities will be part of 19 the public record and we feel staff and commissioners 20 who have participated in those consultations a special 21 responsibility to carry your message and really engage 22 in a dialogue with the CBC at that hearing about your 23 concerns and preoccupations. 24 1517 Tomorrow there is still a morning of 25 consultation and it will be a regional commissioner StenoTran 383 1 Cindy Grauer for the British Columbia and, of course, 2 Mrs. Vogel and Mrs. Pinsky will be here to pursue the 3 consultation to make sure that we have heard all the 4 citizens who wanted to come forward like you did today. 5 1518 And so it is going to be -- we start 6 at 9 tomorrow morning. 7 1519 To the court reporter, the 8 translators, thank you for making sure that we have 9 memory of that important day of consultation. 10 1520 To all of you, have a good evening, 11 good night, rather. Thank you. 12 --- Applause / Applaudissements 13 --- Whereupon the consultation adjourned at 2150 14 to resume on Wednesday, March 17, 1999 15 at 0900 / Le consultation est ajournée à 2150, 16 pour reprendre le mercredi 17 mars 1999 à 0900 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
- Date modified: