ARCHIVED -  Transcript - Hull, QC - 1999/06/09

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Place du Portage Place du Portage

Conference Centre Centre de conférence

Outaouais Room Salle Outaouais

Hull, Quebec Hull (Québec)

June 9, 1999 Le 9 juin 1999




Volume 13





In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of Contents.

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the public hearing.





Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières.

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience publique.

Canadian Radio-television and

Telecommunications Commission

Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

télécommunications canadiennes

Transcript / Transcription

Public Hearing / Audience publique









Françoise Bertrand Chairperson of the

Commission, Chairperson /

Présidente du Conseil,


Andrée Wylie Commissioner / Conseillère

David Colville Commissioner / Conseiller

Barbara Cram Commissioner / Conseillère

James Langford Commissioner / Conseiller

Cindy Grauer Commissioner / Conseillère

Joan Pennefather Commissioner / Conseillère





Nick Ketchum Hearing Manager /

Gérant de l'audience

Carolyn Pinsky Legal Counsel /

Alastair Stewart Conseillers juridiques

Carol Bénard Secretary / Secrétaire



Place du Portage Place du Portage

Conference Centre Centre de conférence

Outaouais Room Salle Outaouais

Hull, Quebec Hull (Québec)

June 9, 1999 Le 9 juin 1999

- ii -




Reply by / Réplique par:

CBC Reply 3824

Corporate Reply 3846

- iii -



Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - Volume 2/

Le mercredi 26 mai 1999 - Volume 2

Paragraphs 1955 to 1973 should be deleted from the transcript/

Les paragraphes 1955 à 1973 devraient être retirés de la transcription

Hull, Quebec / Hull (Québec)

--- Upon resuming on Wednesday, June 9, 1999 at 0903 /

L'audience reprend le mercredi 9 juin 1999

à 0903

19022 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, everyone. Before we start, I think we have some documents to put on the public record.

19023 MS PINSKY: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

19024 I would just like to note that the CBC has filed the document dated June 9 containing information relating to drama from independent producers and multicultural representation in art and entertainment programming for the 1999-2000 season.

19025 The translators have advised me that I read way too quickly when I read the document.

19026 In addition, the CBC filed yesterday in confidence information sought by the Commission in a question in writing relating to a breakdown of costs and revenues for sports programming. The information was filed at a disaggregated level.

19027 Thank you.

19028 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

19029 Madame Santerre, pouvez-vous s'il vous plaît nous expliquer à quelle étape nous sommes rendus dans notre audience et nous présenter les gens du prochain panel?

19030 Mme SANTERRE: Merci, madame la présidente.

19031 This morning, we will hear the reply by the CBC to all the appearing interventions regarding the English licence renewal applications before the CRTC and we will follow today with the reply from the corporate CBC.

19032 Thank you.

19033 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

19034 Good morning, gentlemen.


19035 MR. BEATTY: Good morning, Madam Chairman.

19036 Madam Chairman and members of the Commission, let me reintroduce myself for the record.

19037 I'm Perrin Beatty. I'm President and CEO of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

19038 I'm joined for this appearance by the Vice Presidents of our English Radio and Television services, Alex Frame and Harold Redekopp; the head of CBC Newsworld, Tony Burman.

19039 We are here to respond to the intervenors who have appeared before you following the English language phase of our licence renewal applications.

19040 Madam Chair, I want to begin by saying how gratified we are by the unprecedented outpouring of support for CBC Radio, Television, and Newsworld which has been generated by these proceedings.

19041 In both your cross-country consultations in the spring and in written and oral interventions to the public hearing itself, Canadians have told you just how highly they value those services. We find that support both encouraging and humbling. It reminds us that we are the temporary custodians of a permanent trust which Canadians have placed in their national public broadcaster for more than 60 years.

19042 We sincerely thank all of those people who appeared here over the past five days to express their support for the CBC. That includes many members of the Canadian creative and production communities who took time out of their busy schedules to come and speak so eloquently about our central role in the Canadian broadcasting system.

19043 We are grateful as well for the support and advice of eminent and knowledgeable public servants such as Bill Davis and Pierre Juneau.

19044 We also would like to thank those members of the general public who came to share their passion for the CBC with you, people like Dorothy Dawson who drove 12 hours from New Brunswick to address you on Monday.

19045 Now, many of those who supported us have also offered constructive suggestions for future improvement. I want to assure them, through you, that we share many of their concerns and are actively seeking ways to address them.

19046 Our comments today will not attempt to address every point that was made in the past several days but will focus instead on some of the most important main themes which various intervenors have raised and which we believe require a response from the Corporation.

19047 To begin, Madam Chair, I will ask Harold Redekopp to respond to some of the issues raised by intervenors who focused their comments on English Television.

19048 Harold.

19049 MR. REDEKOPP: Thank you, Perrin.

19050 I would like to comment on issues that have been raised by intervenors during the oral phase of this hearing, and those subjects are diversity, multicultural and aboriginal reflection, variety programming, feature films, the role of independent and in-house production, journalistic balance and regional reflection.

19051 First, diversity. A number of intervenors have criticized us for lack of progress in the reflection of multicultural diversity. We too believe, as Professor Lionel Lum said so eloquently, that diversity is not a duty. It's a delight.

19052 We were heartened that groups like Alliance Atlantis told the Commission that when it comes to multicultural reflection, CBC is the only broadcaster where it's discussed at ground zero. We want to do more, but we are already doing a lot.

19053 We began broadening our news and current affairs database of sources last year.

19054 We just launched an internship program which recruited ten up and coming programmers, three of them from multicultural background, and one of those multicultural interns is a graduate of Professor Lionel Lum's school of journalism and another has been assigned to CBC Vancouver.

19055 In addition, we are submitting to the Commission a detailed breakdown of the multicultural makeup of the cast of all arts and entertainment programming for the 1999-2000 season. It's an impressive list, encompassing hundreds of actors.

19056 The diversity and communications network will be encouraged to hear that our new youth program in the mix has four black leads. The Aboriginal People's Television Network and others are concerned about CBC's commitment to the recruitment and nurturing of First Nations People. Here are some of our recent initiatives in this area.

19057 We created a stand-alone unit of First Nations programs to pilot a series called "All My Relations". We produced and broadcast specials which celebrate aboriginal artists such as the National Aboriginal Achievements Awards.

19058 Our new regional non-news series will seek out our aboriginal talent, especially in Western Canada.

19059 "Tales of a Long House" is a new series of aboriginal stories for children which is about to go into production.

19060 Our arts and entertainment department in CBC training support several aboriginal internship programs.

19061 CBC Manitoba participates in three aboriginal training and internship programs in partnership with other organizations, including the Aboriginal People's Television Network.

19062 Let me turn next to the subject of variety programming.

19063 SERPA and SOCAN called for a regular variety program on CBC Television. During the last licence term, we produced and broadcast two variety series, "Rita and Friends", and the "Nine O'clock Show".

19064 For the future, we are developing a pilot with a working title "From Quebec with Love", which will feature Quebec artists performing in English.

19065 We are also talking to several independent producers about a potential Canadian variety series for broadcast in the fall of 2000.

19066 During the licence term, we will also continue with music specials such as the East and West Coast Music Awards and a new Anne Murray Special this coming season.

19067 Variety programming will also be a key ingredient in the new regional non-news program stream, the best of which will be showcased on the national network.

19068 The next subject I want to mention is feature films.

19069 Some concerns have been expressed about our future commitment to feature films. The main goal of our policy is to build audiences for high-quality movies. We are committed to the creation of a permanent place for feature films within a year from now. Ultimately, we want viewers to know that Canadian feature films have a regular, high profile home on the CBC schedule.

19070 The Canadian Association of Film Distributors and Exporters want us to make a specific commitment right now to a prime time place for Canadian feature films in our schedule, but this initiative is new. It will take time for us to build enough inventory to create a season.

19071 In the meantime, we will supplement our Canadian movie repertoire with a mix of best of the world and American films.

19072 Now, concern was also expressed about CBC investing too heavily in American feature films at the expense of Canadian features. But CBC has been acquiring movies from around the world for 25 years, and we do so with care. They must fit the CBC brand, and that means they must have edge and intelligence or a universal theme or Canadian participation.

19073 This coming season, our Best of the World Series will feature "Secrets and Lies", "Shine", and "The English Patient", which was written by a Canadian, Michael Ondaatje.

19074 Some intervenors believe we are wasting taxpayers' money by bidding on rights for American movies, but U.S. movies are sold as packages that give us good value as well as high quality and these purchases aren't subsidized by the taxpayers. We insist on a minimum 10 per cent margin of profitability for American acquisitions, and if the bidding war keeps up, we pull out, and that's exactly what happened in the case of "Titanic".

19075 I want to speak next about a group of issues around independent and in-house production as a subject of a number of interventions.

19076 CBC Television is grateful for the overall strong support that the production sector has generally given to our licence renewal applications. We have heard heartening remarks from the creative community: technicians, unions, and independent producers.

19077 However, there are still some points of contention between us and we would like to address those now.

19078 The CFTPA and others restated their position that CBC should cease any in-house production of drama programming and leave it all to the private sector.

19079 In contrast, the Canadian Media Guild called for more in-house production in entertainment as well as information programming.

19080 The Writers' Guild support in-house production because the CBC is where they can take their riskiest project, their least conventional story ideas.

19081 The Directors' Guild believe in maintaining a balance between in-house and independent productions and indeed, it is a balancing act.

19082 It is our view that there is room for in-house capability. It provides us with programming flexibility and independence and the opportunity for experimentation and risk-taking.

19083 The CBC has a tradition of producing this kind of programming in-house with titles such as "The Newsroom", "Little Criminals and White Lies" and the upcoming "Must be Santa".

19084 I think Dennis Feen, who wrote "Little Criminals and White Lies" put the case for in-house well when he wrote:

"These unique, provocative dramas could not have been made anywhere but the CBC. It's doubtful that any private broadcaster would have touched them. The end result, as often happens with both commercially and critically successful."

19085 It's also important to remember that the CBC no longer enjoys guaranteed access to the Canadian Television Fund. Indeed, the entire independent production sector is going through a period of uncertainty due to changes in the Fund and consolidation in the industry.

19086 Under these circumstances, it's essential for us to maintain some in-house capability.

19087 Still on the subject of independent production, we wish to correct the mistaken impression that our funding for independent drama will be flat over the next seven-year licence term.

19088 We are filed a chart with the Commission this morning that clarifies the information provided in Appendix 2 of our financial submission. That chart shows that our spending on independent drama production will actually increase 28 per cent over a ten-year period, 1996 to 2006.

19089 In addition, independent producers will benefit to varying degrees from the new non-news regional initiatives we have announced as well as from funding for script and concept development.

19090 Next, I would like to speak briefly about the issue of perceived bias in CBC journalism.

19091 Several groups have criticized the Corporation for bias in a number of areas. Now, we listened carefully to these concerns because we take pride in our journalism. All of our journalists are governed by the CBC Journalistic Standards and Practices, which is an extremely rigorous code of conduct and it's constantly being updated.

19092 The final court of appeal is the Office of the Ombudsman, whose mandate covers all programs governed by journalistic policy.

19093 Yesterday, Archie Robertson complained about a lack of transparency. He may be heartened to know that the Ombudsman's annual report is made public. In checking those reports over the past several years, we noted 21 complaints from Real Women of Canada, all of which had been answered by programmers to the Ombudsman's satisfaction.

19094 Finally, I would like to say a word about regional production and regional reflection. Several intervenors would like to see more independent production in the regions, and so would we. We continue to work toward this goal. More than half of all of our investment in funded projects takes place outside Toronto, but regional quotas, or envelopes, would simply be unworkable.

19095 Our new regional non-news programming initiative, coupled with our renewed supper hour show, provide a strong base of community presence and involvement for our stations across the country and represent at least 36 hours a week of regional production on the network.

19096 I would like now to invite Alex Frame to address the intervenors from the perspective of English Radio.

19097 Alex?

19098 MR. FRAME: Thank you, Harold.

19099 Madam Chair, Commissioners, I want to begin by thanking the thousands of Canadians who took time to express their support for CBC Radio, during the CRTC's public consultations this spring and again during this public hearing process.

19100 I would want to thank each one of them by name, but I will mention two: Helen Forsey, who appeared before you last Wednesday, and our friend from the Arrogant Worms, who appeared here yesterday. I thought their interventions were terrific.

19101 This morning, I want to respond to two issues raised by some intervenors. Canadian musical content and sponsorship.

19102 First, Canadian music. The interventions by SERPA and SOCAN recommend that the Commission impose three new conditions of licence on CBC Radio:

19103 15 per cent Canadian composed music in category three;

19104 a doubling of the overall Canadian content in category three music to 40 per cent; and

19105 an increase to 70 per cent Canadian content for category two music.

19106 In terms of category three music, our concern is with the supply of both Canadian composed and maple designated music. SOCAN agrees with our estimates of roughly 60 new CDs available each year that feature Canadian compositions. This represents about 3 per cent of the approximately 2,000 CDs released in Canada each year in the classical music genre.

19107 With such a low supply of commercially recorded material, it's clear that the only way CBC can meet its own internal 5 per cent Canadian composed category three music target is because we ourselves produce, commission or co-produce Canadian composed classical and jazz concerts and recordings.

19108 Many factors also make it impossible to ensure that even this level of Canadian composition is reached on a consistent, weekly basis.

19109 With regard to the recommendation of a doubling of our overall category three Canadian content levels to 40 per cent, again supply is a major problem.

19110 Of the 2,000 new classical CDs available in Canada yearly, about 10 per cent fit the CRTC's maple designation as Canadian. Of approximately 1,200 new jazz CDs each year, only about 2 per cent are maple.

19111 CBC Radio spends a great deal of time, energy and money recording and broadcasting Canadian soloists and ensembles, on disk and in concert. It's this work on our part that has allowed us to lead the way in the presentation of Canadian category three music and musicians.

19112 However, to impose a level beyond the current minimum would be simply unrealistic.

19113 In terms of category two music, CBC Radio One and Radio Two currently present a minimum of 50 per cent Canadian popular music each week. However, category two music is not a major factor in either broadcast schedules. In fact, only about 200 category two music selections are featured each week on each network.

19114 That leaves room for only 100 non-Canadian selections, including world music on programs such as "Global Village" or "The Transcontinental", or specific genres where the supply of Canadian music is limited. For instance, "Finkleman's 45s", which plays oldies music, or "Say it with Music", which features show tunes.

19115 We are concerned that an increase in our Canadian content conditions of licence would make it difficult for CBC Radio to showcase music that is appropriate to specific programs or that reflect the best the world has to offer, or allows us to respond appropriately when non-Canadian musicians or music becomes a major news story. Remember Frank Sinatra.

19116 The second area I would like to address is sponsorship. Many cultural groups support our proposal. For instance, the Canadian Conference for the Arts described the initiative as an attractive option that arts organizations could offer to their corporate sponsors, and thus enhance support to the arts in Canada.

19117 However, like others, the CCA wanted more clarity in the wording of the conditions. In response to those concerns, we submitted a proposed new condition of license which provides that clarity.

19118 Some intervenors expressed concern about the impacts of sponsorship on the sound of CBC Radio. In fact, there will be no mention of sponsors other than their names, no selling messages or tag lines of any sort.

19119 Others worry that sponsorship would interfere with the objectivity of our journalism, or skew our programming choices. In fact, the proposed condition of licence prohibits any sponsorship of information programs.

19120 Still, others fear that CBC Radio sponsorship would somehow siphon resources away from other cultural groups. In fact, no money will flow directly to the CBC from this initiative. It is designed to help our cultural partners leverage more resources from private sector sponsors.

19121 I gather that our efforts at greater clarity and tighter safeguards have indeed reassured a number of intervenors, including the Friends of Canadian Broadcasting.

19122 When Ian Morrison appeared before you yesterday, he expressed the view with the proposed new condition of licence the danger of a slippery slope had faded, or as he put it, The slope is so small I don't think anything could slip on it.

19123 The debate over sponsorship is an example of how passionately CBC Radio listeners care about their service, how much ownership they feel of it.

19124 We appreciate the opportunity to hear and to respond to what they have to say.

19125 I would now like to let my colleague, Tony Burman, address issues related to CBC Newsworld.

19126 MR. BURMAN: Thank you, Alex.

19127 Good morning, Madam Chair, Commissioners.

19128 I would like to respond to some of the positions taken by the Canadian Cable Television Association regarding Newsworld's proposed rate increase. CCTA objects to our request for a rate increase on the ground that in their view, Newsworld's revenue projections are understated in three areas: cable subscriber revenue, DTH subscriber revenue and advertizing revenue.

19129 Let me address each of these topics in turn.

19130 First, cable subscriber revenue. CCTA claims that Newsworld underestimates the number of subscribers and hence revenue for the proposed licence term, and they claim that we did the same in our previous licence renewal.

19131 In fact, while Newsworld subscribership did turn out to be higher than we had projected in the past term, the revenues generated from those subscribers was very close to projected levels.

19132 In 1992, we used the CCTA's estimate of cable growth which turned out to be too high. We only exceeded subscriber projections, thanks to new affiliates, both anglophone and particularly francophone. But revenue was as projected.

19133 There are few potential new cable affiliates now, so we do not expect growth from that quarter this time. We are projecting subscriber revenue, not subscriber numbers. We are surprised that CCTA is not aware of the competitive realities which have emerged since the introduction of distributor competition in the area of bulk and commercial fees. There is no simple equation between subscriber numbers, rate and revenue.

19134 If the CCTA forecasts were right, we would have experienced much greater cable revenue growth than we actually have. In the last four years, revenue has grown by less than 1 per cent a year, which includes some new affiliates. CCTA projects our growth will be much greater than this in the future, even without new affiliates. Yet, CCTA's own figures show that basic cable growth in both 1997 and 1998 is now under 1 per cent.

19135 Let's now turn to the second issue: direct-to-home revenue.

19136 CCTA had the benefit of looking at our DTH revenue projections six months after we prepared them and concluded that they are low. We agree.

19137 However, as we pointed out last week, unexpected cost increases since we filed our business plan last year more than offset the additional DTH revenue we expect.

19138 We also note that the RBC Dominion Securities report on DTH on which they rely also states that:

"While customer response has been stronger than expected, this may represent a one-time alleviation of pent-up demand."

19139 In general, given all of the factors mentioned above, there is now more uncertainty in projecting subscriber revenues from all sources than there has been in the past.

19140 Growth in the number of households, which the CCTA intervention emphasizes, is only one factor affecting revenue projections. The evolving competitive environment must also be taken into account. On balance, we continue to believe that our projections are realistic.

19141 Finally, there is the question of advertizing revenue. CCTA takes a simplistic attitude towards this subject. They ignore the effect of fragmentation and the competitive pressure on cost per thousand rates.

19142 Newsworld is one of the most successful specialty services in earning advertizing revenue. Unlike most other specialty television groups, it generates more revenue than audience share and its cost per thousand is among the highest in its target demographic of adults 25 to 54.

19143 But many of the newer specialty services target the same group and the resulting fragmentation of audiences and competitive pressure on rates from the new specialties is having an effect.

19144 Advertising revenue is down in each of the last six quarters compared to the same quarter in the preceding year. We expect the current broadcast year to be 14 per cent less than the previous year.

19145 The MBS report, which CCTA dismisses, goes into some detail explaining the trends which are now changing the television advertizing market and shows also why Newsworld should not expect to benefit from an increase in the total share going to the specialty television segment.

19146 We have carefully analyzed all of the arguments put forward by the CCTA. For the reasons I have just mentioned, none of them convinces us to materially alter our business plan or revise in any way the economic justification for our proposed rate increase.

19147 Thank you.

19148 MR. BEATTY: Well, thank you, Tony, Alex and Harold.

19149 Madam Chair and Commissioners, that concludes our reply to intervenors and we would be pleased to respond to any questions.

19150 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

19151 Madame Santerre, I think we had agreed that we would hear your reply. Then, we would take a long break and come back with our further questions, to adjust with the reply you were making. I don't know if the information has ben passed along that we would break for about an hour between the time of reply to the time of... Yes? No? Sorry.

19152 I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. What we have thought is after your reply of the CBC English network and the Newsworld and Radio, we would take a short break, hear the corporate reply, then take a long break, then come back with further questioning, if need be.

19153 MR. BEATTY: That's certainly acceptable to us, Madam Chair.

19154 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good. Thank you. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

19155 So five minutes and we will hear the corporate response.

19156 Thank you.

--- Courte suspension à / Short recess at 0930

--- Reprise à / Upon resuming at 0947

19157 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Madame Santerre, je pense que monsieur Stewart a des documents à ajouter au dossier public.

19158 M. STEWART: Merci, madame la présidente.

19159 La Société Radio-Canada a envoyé un rapport sur la production régionale de la Télévision française suite à un engagement qu'elle a pris, et ce document sera déposé au dossier public.

19160 Merci, madame la présidente.

19161 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci à vous.

19162 Madame Santerre, voulez-vous nous présenter le panel devant nous, s'il vous plaît?

19163 Mme SANTERRE: Merci, madame la présidente.

19164 Alors, maintenant nous entendrons pour l'ensemble de Radio-Canada la présentation concernant la planification stratégique et ce qu'on appelle le corporate structure, qui sera présentée par les membres de Radio-Canada.

19165 Madame.


19166 Mme SAUCIER: Madame la présidente du Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes, mesdames et messieurs du Conseil, c'est avec plaisir que nous nous présentons à nouveau devant vous et devant le public canadien aujourd'hui.

19167 Once again, please allow me to introduce myself. I'm Guylaine Saucier, Chair of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

19168 We are before you today to present our final statement, and with me is the reassembled corporate panel consisting of Perrin Beatty, President and CEO; Louise Tremblay, Senior Vice President; Michel Tremblay, Chief Planning Officer; Michèle Fortin, vice-présidente de la Télévision française; Alex Frame, Vice President, English Radio; Harold Redekopp, Vice President, English Television; Sylvain Lafrance, vice-président de la Radio française; Micheline Vaillancourt de la Télévision française; Renaud Gilbert de RDI; and Tony Burman of Newsworld.

19169 Les Canadiens et les Canadiennes sont attachés à Radio-Canada. Ces audiences qui se terminent, comme les consultations régionales qui les ont précédé, l'ont démontré hors de tout doute. Cet attachement est profond et parfois passionné, comme le nôtre.

19170 Le processus auquel nous nous sommes livrés au cours des dernières semaines a été riche, mais aussi éprouvant. J'aimerais remercier tous ceux et celles qui ont participé à ces travaux, ceux et celles qui sont venus témoigner devant vous, vous-mêmes, mesdames et messieurs les conseillers, les employés du CRTC et ceux de Radio-Canada, ainsi que toutes les personnes du public qui, de leur foyer, se sont intéressés à ces discussions capitales pour l'avenir de leur diffuseur public.

19171 Comme vous l'avez vous-même souligné au début de ces audiences, madame la présidente, Radio-Canada s'est présentée devant vous avec une attitude renouvelée de transparence et d'ouverture, fournissant plus d'information que jamais au Conseil. Je voudrais vous souligner ici que ce n'est pas un geste isolé, mais le reflet d'une nouvelle politique de gestion.

19172 It is clear from the majority of the interventions, the discussions here and the area consultations that Canadians support the need for a strong public broadcaster. People want more CBC, not less. Canadians, from poets to premiers, want to ensure that we have the best possible CBC with deep regional roots providing a true picture of what it is to be citizens of this country.

19173 Industry players, from creators to independent producers, to our affiliate partners, have told you of the key role that the CBC plays in carrying our voices, fostering new talent and taking risks.

19174 Mais ce dont nous nous souviendrons en pensant à ces audiences, c'est qu'elles auront été l'expression d'un grand attachement qui lie le public canadien à Radio-Canada. Cet attachement transcende tous les points de vue entendus et nous nous en réjouissons.

19175 Parce que nous croyons nous aussi qu'en ces années où la technologie et les pratiques commerciales contribuent à étendre les cultures et à étendre les marchés qu'il est plus nécessaire que jamais d'avoir un diffuseur public dont le mandat précis est de refléter ce que nous sommes.

19176 Nous croyons aussi qu'il est rassurant comme presque jamais il ne l'a été de fournir au public canadien une image de lui-même qui affirme son identité, qui montre ses talents et qui porte sa voix et sa distinction sur la scène internationale.

19177 Radio-Canada constitue, avec les diffuseurs privés, l'une des meilleures industries télévisuelles au monde et la concurrence qui nous lie et nous distingue est un des facteurs de l'enrichissement continue de l'offre télévisuelle et radiophonique et cette concurrence est formidable. Elle est l'ingrédient essentiel au maintien d'un système de radiodiffusion fort et capable de rivaliser en qualité et en variété avec l'offre américaine et étrangère.

19178 Radio-Canada, élément essentiel de notre système de diffusion, bénéficie de l'engagement indéfectible de ses employés, de ses créateurs, de ses artisans qui lui ont permis de se renouveler au gré des ans pour demeurer toujours actuel.

19179 La famille de Radio-Canada a grandi. Elle compte déjà ses affiliés et maintenant ses nombreux collaborateurs externes dont au premier chef les producteurs indépendants qui contribuent par leur talent et leur fougue à notre dynamisme.

19180 In today's environment, it takes courage, imagination, determination and I have to say a dose of pragmatism to chart a meaningful course for Canada's public broadcaster.

19181 The plan we put before you is based on consolidation and renewal. In drafting our plan, we were guided by important priorities which were echoed throughout the hearings: reinforcing our regional presence, increasing our Canadianization objectives, providing a better pan-Canadian reflection, adapting our internal culture and providing Canada's premiere news service.

19182 Ce plan, mesdames et messieurs du Conseil, il est réaliste dans la mesure où nous pouvons compter sur un financement adéquat et stable et évoluer dans un cadre réglementaire qui est flexible.

19183 Il s'agit d'un plan intégré, soigneusement équilibré et élaboré après de nombreuses discussions, réflexions et en tenant compte de plusieurs facteurs. Toute modification d'une partie de ce plan affectera notre capacité à en réaliser l'ensemble.

19184 Le Conseil a clairement établi qu'il attend de nous un plan, des priorités et des engagements qui soient clairs, de même que des indicateurs de performance et des mesures d'évaluation tout aussi clairs. Mais je tiens à vous souligner que c'est ce que nous avons besoin nous-mêmes pour gérer Radio-Canada, et nous sommes entièrement d'accord. Et nous croyons, madame, que c'est ce que nous avons produit.

19185 Cela étant, cette planification requière deux éléments: stabilité et flexibilité. Pour nous, la stabilité, ou tout au moins la prévisibilité, ne s'évalue pas seulement en terme de financement stable. Elle implique aussi une confiance et une confiance qui se mesure dans le temps. Nos licences doivent avoir une durée qui nous permet d'établir des objectifs à long terme et un plan d'action pour les rejoindre.

19186 Nous avons aussi besoin d'un cadre réglementaire flexible et nous vous invitons à considérer d'autres outils, tel un mécanisme de dialogue continue entre les diffuseurs et le régulateur mené dans la transparence.

19187 En tant que président du Conseil d'une des grandes institutions canadiennes, je suis pleinement consciente de l'importance des orientations que nous vous proposons.

19188 The CBC is not just bricks and mortar. The CBC is what it offers to Canadians, the values it shares, the benefits it brings to the system. We must therefore manage the CBC based on values and we must be judged first and foremost on these values. They are found in our mission: telling Canadian stories, providing Canadians with relevant news and information, championing arts and culture and finally, building bridges between our regions and our linguistic communities.

19189 Does that course we have charted for the next seven years clearly espouse these values? I think so. Shortly, our Media Vice Presidents will be outlining how our major commitments reflect these values.

19190 Mais avant de leur céder la parole, j'aimerais vous communiquer certains engagements. Ils nous ont été inspirés par les préoccupations et les commentaires qui ont été émis en ces lieux au cours des derniers jours endossés par le Conseil d'administration de la Société lors d'une réunion ces derniers jours.

19191 Ainsi, au nom du Conseil, de la direction de Radio-Canada, je formule les engagements suivants:

19192 Lors de notre toute première rencontre  il me semble que ça fait des années  je vous ai indiqué qu'il était notre intention chaque année de faire part aux Canadiens et aux Canadiennes de nos engagements envers eux et de notre performance vis-à-vis de ces engagements. Il était clair dans mon esprit que ces engagements sont ceux dont nous allons vous faire part aujourd'hui.

19193 Nous nous engageons également à trouver des façons d'accroître notre capacité d'écoute afin de nous rapprocher davantage de nos différents publics et de mieux les servir.

19194 Deuxièmement, nos chaînes principales sont au coeur de notre entreprise. Nous entendons continuer à développer de nouveaux services, mais nous ne le ferons pas au détriment de nos services de base et nous allons gérer cette évolution rigoureusement.

19195 Thirdly, as you know, our plan contains a formal commitment to strengthen our regional presence throughout Canada, et c'est un dossier qui m'est très cher. On English Television, we had a commitment for youth, professional sports programming. We are aware of the promise made throughout this process and in both cases, we will accelerate the implementation of our plan.

19196 Je demanderai maintenant à Perrin de vous en dire davantage.

19197 Merci.

19198 MR. BEATTY: Thank you very much, Guylaine.

19199 Madam Chair, you began this hearing by questioning us at some length about various alternative models for the future of the CBC. Let me assure you that we examined all of those models carefully before arriving at our strategic plan which we shared with you in our opening presentation.

19200 Après avoir écouté attentivement ce que les Canadiens avaient à dire, nous avons conclu qu'ils s'attendent à ce que Radio-Canada demeure au centre de la vie canadienne.

19201 Nous avons également constaté qu'ils souhaitent que nous mettions encore davantage d'emphase sur les éléments de base de notre mandat:

19202 une programmation canadienne qui est originale et de grande qualité et qui incarne les principes de la radiodiffusion de service public;

19203 une programmation qui fait une place à des genres sous-représentés dans le contexte d'une grille équilibrée;

19204 une programmation qui est suivie et appréciée par un grand nombre de Canadiens;

19205 une programmation qui envoie le reflet des diverses régions du Canada aux régions elles-mêmes et au pays dans son ensemble;

19206 une programmation qui aborde des thèmes canadiens, célèbre les artistes canadiens et exprime les valeurs canadiennes;

19207 une programmation qui tient compte de la nature de plus en plus diversifiée et multiculturelle de la société canadienne;

19208 une programmation qui atteint et dessert tous les Canadiens.

19209 Les plans que chacune de nos composantes vous a présentés dans sa demande de renouvellement de licences témoignent de ses engagements de manière tangible.

19210 Nos réseaux de radio élargiront leur couverture.

19211 Nos réseaux de télévision rééquilibreront leur grille de manière à donner encore plus d'importance aux catégories de programmation sous-représentées.

19212 Nos chaînes d'information renforceront leurs moyens de rapporter en direct les événements et les sujets d'actualité de toutes les régions du pays et du monde entier.

19213 Tous nos services s'efforceront de consolider leurs assises dans chacune des régions du pays et refléteront davantage ces régions à l'antenne des réseaux nationaux.

19214 Madam Chair, in a few moments, you will hear again from the heads of each of our services about some of the steps we will take to do all of this with specific reference to the major issues and concerns you have raised with them throughout this hearing.

19215 Now, before turning the floor over to them, I want to touch on three issues that cut across all media lines.

19216 Our vision of the constellation of services; our investment in new media; and our commitment to ongoing, annual productivity improvements.

19217 First, the constellation model.

19218 Commissioners, we believe deeply that this is the only way to ensure a strong future for public broadcasting in this country. That future depends on expanding the shelf space for distinctive, high-quality Canadian programming and on serving segments of society that we simply cannot serve on our existing networks.

19219 We are not here to ask you to endorse this vision today. We will compete for individual licences on their own merits on a level playing field. We simply want to demonstrate to you that the CBC has its house in order and that we are well positioned to renovate and enlarge that house in the years ahead.

19220 Second, new media.

19221 Several times during this hearing, it's been suggested that we are in an either/or situation where the CBC can either boldly move into new media or stick to its conventional broadcasting. As our colleagues in other countries understand very clearly, no public broadcaster can remain relevant or continue to reach and serve audiences unless it reaches out aggressively and innovatively to explore and embrace the new digital technologies that are revolutionizing how we produce and deliver programs and services.

19222 New media are already and increasingly integrated into the way our programmers do their jobs. Our challenge is to maximize the value that Canadians receive from the investment they have already made in our journalistic and creative activities by repurposing them and extending them in the emerging new media.

19223 Commissioners, we have heard concerns about the potential impact of new services and new media on the Corporation's core activities.

19224 In our view, this impact is entirely positive, not negative. We have taken great care not to siphon resources from our existing over the air networks and stations to fund these new ventures. On the contrary, we believe that only by finding new ways to reach and serve Canadians can the CBC remain relevant and valuable to Canadians in the media environment of the 21st Century.

19225 Now, let me turn to our goal of 2 per cent annual productivity improvement. This kind of goal is no more and no less than is expected of any well-run modern company, either in the public or in the private sector. It will not be imposed across the board but focused, targeted on those areas of our infrastructure and operational costs where we feel that maximum efficiencies can be achieved without negative impact on the services that we offer. The resulting savings will be ploughed back into service improvements and new services, which we could not otherwise afford to undertake.

19226 Now, I would like to ask each of our Media Vice Presidents and the heads of our news specialty services to speak to you about their individual plans.

19227 I would like to start with our senior service radio and turn first to the Vice President of English Radio, Alex Frame.

19228 Alex.

19229 MR. FRAME: Thank you, Perrin.

19230 Commissioners, I have appreciated this opportunity to discuss CBC Radio with you and with Canadians. We welcome the chance to share with you our priorities and how we plan to express them in the coming years.

19231 There are three subjects that I would like to touch on this morning, on the final stage of this hearing. We would like to revisit the question of Canadian compositions and sponsorship and we would also like to speak about Radio Two coverage.

19232 First, with regard to category three music written by Canadians, CBC Radio is very proud of its ongoing work on behalf of Canadian composers. The supply of this type of music suitable for air play remains quite limited. In fact, much of it only exists thanks to CBC Radio, through our commissioning and recording activities, our young composers' competition and other initiatives.

19233 Obviously, we intend to continue ensuring that the music we help to create gets broadcast and heard.

19234 We also intend to maintain our internal target of a minimum average of 5 per cent Canadian compositions in category three music. For practical scheduling reasons, there are considerable fluctuations in this level from week to week and even month to month. We would be pleased to file an annual report to the Commission detailing our on-air performance in the preceding year.

19235 Next, let me say a word about our proposals for limited sponsorship and partnership mentions on CBC Radio.

19236 I strongly believe that this kind of outreach is vital to our future and entirely consistent with the non-commercial nature of our public radio service. It will allow us to bring together like-minded organizations in the public, private and cultural sectors for the benefit of all. It is our hope that the revised condition of licence has helped to clarify our intentions and address the concerns of the Commission and other interested parties.

19237 We have proposed extremely rigorous safeguards on this activity which I won't repeat here. This is not a slippery slope toward commercialism but a clearly-defined and closely-restricted partnership initiative.

19238 We have been encouraged by the positive response to our proposals from a number of arts organizations. We will certainly engage in further broad consultations with the cultural community before proceeding to ensure that our activities are in everyone's best interests.

19239 Finally, let me address the subject of Radio Two coverage. For some time, the Commission has had an expectation that CBC Radio Two should be available first to a minimum of 50 per cent of the English-speaking population of each province, rising over time to at least 75 per cent in each province.

19240 We share the Commission's goal that CBC Radio services should be available to all Canadians. Following our appearance before the Commission last week, we sat down and re-examined our capital planning priorities over the next seven years. As a result, with your assistance, we intend to take steps to respond to those people who want to hear CBC Radio Two and who currently cannot.

19241 By the end of this calendar year, you will receive from us applications for new Radio Two transmitters that, if licenced, would bring our coverage up to 50 per cent of the anglophone population of both Newfoundland and Saskatchewan.

19242 We are also making a firm commitment today that over the course of the next seven-year licence term, we will file applications for additional transmitters to increase Radio Two coverage to the 75 per cent level in every province, except Saskatchewan, where we will be over 70 per cent, and we will continue to look for ways of achieving 75 per cent in Saskatchewan.

19243 In these, as in all our future plans and projects, CBC Radio will continue to be guided by the values which have always defined our service and which I outlined to you in detail last week.

19244 Commissioners, that concludes my final comment.

19245 I will ask my colleague from French Radio, Sylvain Lafrance, to take over.

19246 M. LAFRANCE: Merci beaucoup, Alex.

19247 Madame la présidente, mesdames et messieurs les conseillers, je tiens une nouvelle fois à vous remercier de la qualité de nos échanges au cours de ces audiences. Nos discussions, je le mentionnais la semaine dernière, ont permis de préciser nos demandes de renouvellement.

19248 Je vais donc, moi aussi, faire le point sur les aspects qui méritent encore éclaircissement.

19249 En matière de chanson française d'abord, j'espère que la précision que nous avons déposée, qui limite le contenu anglophone à cinq pour cent, est venue rassurer tous ceux qui ont pu craindre un glissement de notre engagement envers la musique d'ici et la musique de langue française.

19250 Je le répète une nouvelle fois. Notre objectif est de refléter une réalité qui est, qui existe, une réalité de plus en plus présente dans notre quotidien. Notre radio demeurera toujours de loin la plus empressée pour soutenir le talent d'ici d'un bout à l'autre de ce vaste territoire.

19251 En matière de commandite, ici aussi nous avons précisé nos intentions, comme le précisait aussi M. Frame. La radio de service public espère bien pouvoir conclure des ententes de partenariat avec certains acteurs sociaux qui partagent nos valeurs en matière de développement du talent d'ici.

19252 Nous comprenons très bien. Je dirais même que nous partageons l'intérêt de ceux qui souhaitent clairement baliser ces ententes pour éviter tout glissement vers une radio qui ne serait plus vraiment la nôtre. Nous sommes une radio résolument non-commerciale. Les ententes innovatrices n'altéreront ni notre son, ni nos choix stratégiques en matière de programmation.

19253 Je vais parler maintenant du rayonnement, de la distribution de nos signaux. Les présentes audiences nous ont permis de faire le bilan des réalisations de la dernière période de licence et de partager avec le Conseil nos plans en matière de remplacement des affiliés, d'extension de la première chaîne ou encore de la chaîne culturelle.

19254 Pour ce qui est justement de la chaîne culturelle, nous atteindrons à la fin d'une nouvelle période de sept ans une couverture de plus de 85 pour cent des francophones au pays. Ce service rejoindra, si nous obtenons toutes les licences que nous demanderons, au moins 50 pour cent des francophones dans huit provinces canadiennes.

19255 Nous maintenons un objectif à long terme de desservir 50 pour cent des francophones dans toutes les provinces du pays.

19256 Vous savez, je suis moi-même et sans doute le plus préoccupé par les questions de distribution du signal. D'ailleurs, la première chaîne et la chaîne culturelle sont maintenant disponibles sur tout le territoire via ExpressVu, Star Choice et Internet. Ce n'est pas une solution à long terme, mais un compromis intéressant pour l'instant.

19257 Je terminerai en vous disant tout le bien que je pense de la radio comme média. Elle a presque traversé tout le siècle et connaît une nouvelle jeunesse avec Internet et la technologie numérique. La radio ne sera pas le média d'un seul siècle. Elle continuera toujours en temps de crise, comme par les petits matins ordinaires, de façonner le quotidien des gens de tous les âges et de toutes les régions du pays. Elle représentera encore longtemps le lien le plus efficace pour permettre de rapprocher les gens et d'éliminer les distances.

19258 Je termine là-dessus et je cède maintenant la parole à ma collègue de la télévision, madame Fortin.

19259 Mme FORTIN: Merci, Sylvain.

19260 Madame la présidente, mesdames, messieurs du Conseil.

19261 Nous avons déposé aujourd'hui au Conseil une série d'engagements qui renforcent encore davantage notre mission comme télévision publique généraliste, distinctive et s'adressant à un large public.

19262 J'aimerais m'attarder à deux questions qui je crois ont été au coeur des préoccupations quant au renouvellement de la licence de la télévision française de Radio-Canada.

19263 Ces questions sont: nos choix de programmation et notre engagement face aux régions.

19264 En ce qui a trait à nos choix de programmation, j'aimerais vous rappeler que nous offrons déjà une grille équilibrée et diversifiée où notre caractère distinctif est déjà présent par notre couverture régionale, nationale et internationale en information; par nos grandes séries dramatiques qui font place à de nouveaux auteurs et de nouveaux talents; par notre importante programmation pour la jeunesse; par notre production régionale partout au pays; par la place qu'occupent les grands reportages et les documentaires dans notre programmation en affaires publiques; par nos émissions culturelles et notre couverture des événements artistiques.

19265 À la lumière de nos engagements, vous constaterez que nous acceptons d'être encore davantage distinctif dans ces mêmes secteurs prioritaires que sont l'information et les affaires publiques, la jeunesse, les dramatiques, l'art et la culture. De plus, nous renforçons la présence et le reflet régional à tous points de vue.

19266 Ces secteurs prioritaires devraient éventuellement atteindre 75 pour cent de la grille en heures de grande écoute, répartis en un tiers d'information et d'affaires publiques, un tiers de dramatiques et un tiers consacré à la culture classique et populaire, au divertissement et au sport.

19267 Durant le reste de la journée, nos priorités iront à la jeunesse et aux émissions de service, le tout basé sur des valeurs et des critères de choix qui assurent notre caractère distinctif, à savoir la qualité, la crédibilité, la créativité et l'innovation ainsi que le service public, le tout à l'intérieur d'une programmation équilibrée, qui reflète les divers intérêts des Canadiens et qui rejoint un auditoire varié.

19268 Oui, il y aura encore des émissions comme "La Fureur", mais aussi des "Zone libre". Il y aura des "Quatre et demi", mais aussi des "Vie d'artiste".

19269 Cela dit, la programmation de la télévision française de Radio-Canada évoluera au cours des prochaines années vers une grille qui comportera un nombre important de dramatiques canadiennes, plus de documentaires et de grands reportages. Nous en avons fait un engagement et nous y consacrerons plus de ressources, notamment en région. Elle comportera plus de performances d'artistes -- 18 présentations par année -- plus de cinéma canadien et encore plus de profondeur dans le traitement des nouvelles nationales et internationales. Vous y verrez moins de cinéma américain -- nous nous engageons à réduire de 50 pour cent le nombre de longs métrages américains sur nos ondes -- et moins de sport.

19270 De plus, je peux vous assurer que vous ne verrez jamais d'infopublicités à Radio-Canada, lesquelles constituent jusqu'à 20 pour cent de la grille de certains de nos concurrents.

19271 Voilà une partie de la vision que je vous propose pour les sept prochaines années. Venons-en maintenant aux régions qui ont été au centre de plusieurs préoccupations exprimées ici.

19272 D'abord, permettez-moi de dire à nouveau notre engagement et notre enracinement dans les régions où nous sommes déjà présents, et bien présents.

19273 Nous sommes déjà fort actifs en termes de production d'émissions d'information et de production régionale d'émissions de proximité.

19274 Ici aussi, nous estimons que notre bilan est positif et très distinctif si on le compare aux autres télévisions, mais nous acceptons, dans les limites que nous imposent les ressources disponibles et la gestion responsable des deniers publics, de prendre de nouvelles initiatives. Ces initiatives favoriseront un accroissement de la production indépendante en région au moyen d'un investissement de 7 millions $ et de la diffusion de productions régionales au réseau, à raison d'un minimum de cinq heures par semaines qui passera à sept heures à la fin de la licence, dont 30 heures par année en heures de grande écoute.

19275 Nous augmenterons aussi la présence d'artistes et de personnalités des régions dans les émissions du réseau en établissant une meilleure coordination entre les régions et le réseau. De plus, nous maintiendrons le cap quant à notre volonté de produire des nouvelles régionales et d'assurer la diffusion d'émissions autres que les nouvelles qui reflètent la réalité des communautés régionales.

19276 Pour la francophonie canadienne, la télévision française représente un phare et un pivot sur le plan de l'identité culturelle. C'est pourquoi nous comptons poursuivre ce que je pourrais appeler notre oeuvre culturelle et structurante, à savoir: encourager l'émergence et la maturation de nouveaux talents; donner naissance à des oeuvres marquantes de la télévision; consolider nos partenariats avec le milieu des arts, de la production indépendante et des communautés régionales; assurer notre présence et notre rayonnement dans le monde de la francophonie; et maintenir des relations de confiance avec nos artisans et employés dans un esprit de service public.

19277 Cette volonté et nos engagements envers une télévision publique généraliste et pertinente sont garants de ce que sera la télévision française de Radio-Canada à la fin de la prochaine période de licence: Une télévision forte qui pourra continuer de jouer un rôle clé à la fois comme créateur et promoteur de contenus de qualité contribuant au développement et à la promotion de la culture francophone au pays.

19278 Je vous remercie de votre attention. Il me fait plaisir maintenant de céder la parole à mon collègue du Réseau de l'information, Renaud Gilbert.

19279 M. GILBERT: Merci, Michèle.

19280 Madame la présidente, mesdames et messieurs du Conseil.

19281 RDI c'est un service qui cherche à offrir au public une information sur des sujets qui comptent, dans l'absolu comme pour chacun de ceux qui nous écoutent. Quand on parle de la crise au Kosovo, c'est une affaire de vie ou de mort. Ce n'est pas le cas de toutes les nouvelles, bien sûr. Mais quand on parle des élections au Nouveau-Brunswick, c'est parce que les décisions d'un gouvernement ont beaucoup d'impact sur la vie des citoyens.

19282 RDI c'est aussi et beaucoup, plusieurs fois par jour, un accès vivant, inédit, à plusieurs régions, plusieurs communautés, plusieurs acteurs et témoins de l'actualité au pays.

19283 Au moment-même où le Canada se transforme plus que jamais, on peut mesurer l'importance pour les Canadiens de pouvoir compter sur une source fiable qui les aide à savoir, à voir et à comprendre.

19284 Quand nous demandons une augmentation du tarif pour faire plus de direct, plus de documentaires sur des sujets canadiens ou plus de place aux jeunes, c'est parce que nous croyons que c'est le genre de service que les Canadiens attendent de nous. Nous ne le faisons pas à la légère parce que nous savons que les besoins sont illimités et que les ressources, elles, sont limitées.

19285 RDI c'est une petite organisation avec de petits moyens. Jamais RDI n'aurait parcouru autant de chemin sans la synergie avec la chaîne principale de télévision française ou les complicités avec Newsworld. Mais le bout de chemin qui peut être parcouru grâce à la détermination des artisans du RDI a des limites. Pour s'établir comme référence, pour affirmer son leadership auprès des citoyens, RDI doit avoir la capacité de mieux montrer ce qui se passe au pays, d'intéresser les plus jeunes aux affaires publiques.

19286 À la suite des clarifications apportées en cours d'audience, RDI est prêt à vivre avec toutes les conditions de son actuelle licence. RDI réaffirme son engagement à sous-titrer, pour les malentendants, 50 pour cent de sa programmation d'ici 2002.

19287 Plus: nous espérons que le Comité d'étude mis sur pied pour examiner la question du sous-titrage en direct nous permettra d'identifier des solutions praticables et satisfaisantes pour les bénéficiaires, des solutions qui aboutissent à une amélioration du service.

19288 Enfin, nous nous engageons formellement à dépenser les revenus qui découleraient de l'augmentation du tarif, dans les initiatives de programmation énumérées plus haut.

19289 Madame la présidente, nous croyons que nous avons réussi à nous tailler une place dans l'esprit et le coeur de nos concitoyens. Nous comptons sur l'aide du Conseil pour conserver cette place et la faire grandir.

19290 Maintenant, mon collègue Tony Burman.

19291 M. BURMAN: Merci, Renaud.

19292 On behalf of Newsworld, I appreciate the opportunity to speak again to the Commission. It is particularly appropriate that RDI and Newsworld are before you side-by-side.

19293 Newsworld is about to celebrate its 10th anniversary. We are all about to enter a new century. More than ever, we believe that Canadians want and need the kind of unique in-depth national news and information service -- acting in the public interest -- that only Newsworld provides.

19294 No other English-language specialty channel is as rooted in Canada's regions as Newsworld is. No other network has embarked on more cross-cultural bilingual programming. No other network supports Canadian independent documentary-makers as much as Newsworld does.

19295 But Newsworld cannot be taken for granted. Its next 10 years will be a shadow of its first decade if Newsworld is taken for granted. We know that. That is why we have created the seven-year plan we have placed before you.

19296 We are requesting an 8-cent increase in Newsworld's monthly wholesale rate. To maintain our current level of service and launch important new initiatives, it would actually cost 12 cents. But we capped our request at 8 cents because this restores the value of the original rate awarded seven years ago. The balance will be found internally.

19297 We know that any increase is significant and we don't take this lightly. But we feel there will be important benefits to Canadians.

19298 Our plans for video journalists and more satellite facilities will mean that more Canadians will become part of the national dialogue.

19299 We will commission more independent Canadian documentaries and this will promote a deeper examination of the issues of the day.

19300 We will increase our innovative bilingual programming by expanding our successful series, "Culture Shock".

19301 And we will create a national internship program to help develop the next generation of journalists.

19302 We believe that the CBC as a whole, and its regional operations in particular, will benefit from the improvements of our news gathering operations.

19303 We believe that Newsworld and RDI's proposals, when put together, will produce benefits for the entire CBC/Radio-Canada system that will be greater than the sum of their parts.

19304 And we believe that these proposals will strengthen Newsworld's presence in Canada's regions substantially.

19305 There is an added benefit from the increase which is no less important.

19306 There is an added benefit from the increase, which is no less important. It will help prevent a gradual but very real erosion of the Newsworld service over the next seven years.

19307 There has been no increase since 1992. Although the service has been greatly improved and Canadians appreciate it even more, in future, we expect increases in costs will exceed increases in revenues.

19308 Our strategy, as Newsworld enters its second decade is to reinforce Newsworld to ensure that we best serve the needs of Canadians and do this in the most cost effective way possible. I say that on behalf of everyone who works at Newsworld, both those within the CBC and our valued partners outside.

19309 And now, the Vice-President of English television, Harold Redekopp.

19310 MR. REDEKOPP: Thank you, Tony.

19311 Madame Chair, Commissioners, I want to start with a few words about two of the subjects which have clearly been preoccupying you in your consideration of English television. And those subjects are schedule balance and shelf space for under-represented program categories, the two are obviously closely related.

19312 It is clearly not possible to project detailed quarterly block schedules for CBC Television for the next seven years. The schedule we showed you last week is for the fall 1999 season only. There will be quite different schedules in the winter, spring and summer and each succeeding quarter thereafter. They will incorporate time blocks for all the commitments we put forward in our application and during our appearances before you.

19313 I don't believe it is possible to design an effective television schedule based on a detailed set of numerical conditions of licence for each program category. We have provided you with ambitious, but achievable, minimum commitments in several key areas which we intend to meet or exceed.

19314 You have asked us for our vision of the future shape of CBC English television. We have done our best to give you a clear indication of the directions we intend to move in during the coming licence term. As we showed you over the full year, our current prime time schedule is approximately 40 per cent news and information, 40 per cents arts and entertainment and 20 per cent sports. I believe that is a pretty good basic balance among all program types for the national public broadcaster.

19315 The news and information category covers an extremely wide range from hard news and current affairs, like "The National" and "The Fifth Estate" to softer information programs, such as "Life and Times" and "On The Road Again".

19316 Over the next few years, the proportion of our prime time schedule devoted to news and information is likely to remain relatively constant. The proportion devoted to sports will fall and the proportion devoted to arts and entertainment will rise.

19317 We have identified quite specifically the areas where we intend to place increased emphasis and they include youth, performing arts, amateur sports, feature films and regional reflection on the network. We see all these areas as important priorities in the context of our renewed commitment to public broadcasting. Obviously, other areas will have to receive proportionately less attention in terms of both money and airtime.

19318 I don't want to bury the lead or keep Commissioner Colville in suspense, so let me deal right away with the subject of professional sports.

19319 You made it clear that it is closely linked, in your minds, with the topics I have just been discussing, schedule balance and shelf space.

19320 We have already announced that we will find the money and airtime for a 50 per cent increase in amateur sports over the next two years and that we will be reducing professional sports by 10 per cent. Today, CBC Television is committing to doubling its reduction in professional sports to 20 per cent by the end of the coming seven-year licence term.

19321 Now, reducing professional sports obviously increases shelf space for other types of programming on our schedules. But, Commissioners, these changes will take some time as we re-align our budgets to accommodate the financial impact.

19322 Let me now turn to some of our other commitments included in the comprehensive summary which we have filed with you.

19323 In Canadian content, we commit to a minimum of 75 per cent over the full day and 80 per cent during peak viewing hours. Now, those levels are somewhat higher than what were included in our written application and I stress, these are minimum commitments over the full year.

19324 Our long-term objectives are 85 per cent full day and 90 per cent evenings. That allows us enough flexibility to bring Canadians the best programming from the rest of the world.

19325 We are at, or close to, those objectives now and that is where we intend to remain, contingent on our ongoing access to the Canadian Television Fund. We are also committed to maintaining the balance between American and other foreign content.

19326 In the area of regional news production, I have already confirmed that we would accept a condition of licence committing us to a minimum of an hour and a half a day on 13 of our owned and operated stations and an hour a day in the four others. Across the system, that represents a total of more than 41,000 hours of regional news production a year.

19327 As you know, we also made a commitment to regional programming beyond the news area. CBC Television currently does not produce any regional non-news programming for regional broadcast. We have outlined an ambitious new plan that will see us broadcast more than 1,000 hours of such programming over the next licence term. And the best of this programming will also be seen on the network.

19328 We believe this initiative will also help us achieve some of other goals, such as more variety programming and more regional drama. We are also making firm commitments in several other important categories. These commitments include minimum levels of drama and youth programming.

19329 In the performing arts, we are undertaking to broadcast at least 24 substantially complete performance events per year by the second year of the licence term, and at least half of those will be in prime time. This is twice the current level. We are also promising to broadcast at least 40 hours a year of programming from our French network.

19330 Finally, I want to say a word about our commitment to Canadian feature films. As you know, we have announced an investment of $30 million over the next five years in the acquisition, production and promotion of Canadian feature films. Again, this represents an increase of approximately twice our current level of participation.

19331 The films we help to make possible will be shown in the most appropriate time slots for them. Many of them will be seen in prime time and there is no doubt that many more Canadian films will be produced and seen as a result of this initiative.

19332 Commissioners, I have told you that I am personally committed to a vision of Canadian public television, and so is the team that I now have the privilege to lead. We have demonstrated to you some of the ways we intend to take concrete action in the next several years to make that vision a reality.

19333 Thank you, and I will turn it back to Perrin.

19334 MR. BEATTY: Thank you, Harold.

19335 Commissioners, these are our commitments and they are solemn commitments. They are both responsible and responsive. However, the imposition of conditions of licence on the corporation is regarded by Parliament as a very different matter from imposing conditions of licence on all other broadcasters.

19336 Parliament has accordingly set forth a special process for this purpose in the Broadcasting Act. This is presumably in recognition of three basic facts: that the corporation receives the bulk of its funding from Parliament; that conditions of licence are legally binding, and; that the funding necessary to discharge those legal obligations is within the prerogative of Parliament.

19337 This has, in turn, been recognized by the Commission, which is historically refrained from using conditions of licence to embody the corporation's commitments, except for those relating to the basic issues of social policy, such as the portrayal of women, violence and advertising to children.

19338 However, with regard to the core issues of broadcasting policy and performance, the Commission has historically expressed the CBC's obligations in the form of expectations. We believe that this approach has been effective in the past and we respectfully recommend this approach for your consideration for the future.

19339 Guylaine?

19340 Mme SAUCIER: Merci, Perrin.

19341 Mesdames et messieurs du Conseil, nous vous avons présenté un plan pertinent, réaliste et équilibré. C'est aussi un plan intégré dont la remise en question d'une partie pourrait altérer le tout. Pour réaliser ce plan nous avons besoin d'un financement stable et adéquat mais aussi de votre confiance qui devrait se refléter dans les termes des licences renouvelées et nous demandons des licences pour sept ans.

19342 Cette durée nous apparaît essentielle à l'établissement d'objectifs à long terme et au déploiement des moyens d'action pour les atteindre.

19343 Rest assured that we fully understand that we are bound by the strength of our commitments. As part of our will to adapt our culture so that we are more open and transparent, we will make our promise to be accountable to the Canadian public a key element of our management priorities.

19344 The CBC Board of Directors and management have considered these engagements carefully and at length, and together we stand united behind them.

19345 Our annual report to Canadians on our performance will be an very good tool for the CRTC to monitor our progress on all of our commitments.

19346 Ces audiences ont démontré encore une fois que Radio-Canada joue un rôle unique et essentiel dans notre système de radiodiffusion.

19347 Aujourd'hui, je vous demande d'accompagner Radio-Canada, son Conseil, sa direction et ses employés dans les défis auxquels elle fait face en lui fournissant le cadre réglementaire qui correspond à ses besoins.

19348 Mesdames et messieurs, votre rôle est déterminant dans la réalisation du plan que nous vous avons soumis et c'est vous qui déciderez notre marge de manoeuvre. Nous avons besoin de votre confiance pour continuer à projeter nos voix à travers ce pays et à demeurer le principal véhicule d'affirmation culturelle au Canada.

19349 Je vous remercie.

19350 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci infiniment.

19351 J'interromprais les travaux. Nous allons revenir. Nous allons prendre une longue pause pour revenir avec les questions supplémentaires pour des clarifications au besoin. Comme vous nous avez déposé des documents assez précis, si vous accordez de la patience à notre recherche, on devrait être de retour dans une heure au plus tard, ce qui veut dire 11 h 30.

19352 Merci.

--- Recess / Suspension

--- Upon resuming at / Reprise à 1140

19353 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Alors maintenant que l'équipe est au complet, madame Santerre.

19354 Mme SANTERRE: Merci, madame la présidente.

19355 Alors, nous poursuivons l'audience avec la période de questions suivant la réplique de Radio-Canada. Merci.

19356 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Alors, je demanderais à madame Pinsky et à monsieur Stewart de vous adresser les questions de clarification pour compléter le dossier.

19357 Me PINSKY: Merci, madame la présidente.

19358 You have proposed in your presentation today to account to Canadians annually in terms of your performance. Would you commit to filing a report to the Commission in terms of accounting for your annual performance?

19359 MS SAUCIER: What I said -- I will answer in French, if you don't mind.

19360 Ce que j'ai dit c'est que nous étions prêts effectivement à non seulement évaluer notre performance mais à faire chaque année aux Canadiens une série d'engagements qui seront publics, qui seront dans un rapport annuel aux Canadiens, et nous évaluerons notre performance vis-à-vis chacun de ces engagements. Ces engagements vont inclure effectivement les engagements que nous prenons vis-à-vis le CRTC et ce document va être public et disponible au CRTC définitivement, madame.

19361 MS PINSKY: In this report, would you account for the performance with respect to each expectation and condition that the Commission may impose?

19362 MS SAUCIER: Yes.

19363 MS PINSKY: With respect to the filing of financial information, I note that generally the CBC's annual financial reports have been different from and less detailed than those filed by private broadcasters and in the course of this proceeding the CBC has filed more detailed financial information. Would the CBC be willing to file annual financial information that mirrors the format and the content of the productions that have been filed in this proceeding on an annual basis?

19364 MS SAUCIER: I would like Madam Tremblay to answer that.

19365 MS TREMBLAY: Yes. I think I mentioned that our financial systems have been changed and we will be able to generate this type of information in a much easier manner in the future. So we will certainly improve the financial information that is included in the annual report.

19366 MS PINSKY: Okay. Thank you.

19367 With respect to the sports information that was filed in confidence, I note that the projections did not -- it is indicated here that the new initiative to double the decrease of professional sports was not reflected in the information that was filed. Would you agree to re-file the information to reflect the new commitment made by the CBC?

19368 MS SAUCIER: Harold.

19369 MR. REDEKOPP: I will just ask Bill Atkinson to speak to that.

19370 MR. ATKINSON: Yes, we would be prepared to file that.

19371 MS PINSKY: As well, could I ask -- there are a few inconsistencies in terms of the format as between the English and the French -- whether you could mirror that which you have filed for the English?

19372 MR. ATKINSON: We will mirror that. We will get together and discuss those differences and provide you information on that.

19373 MS PINSKY: I just wanted to clarify your response, Madam Saucier, with regard to the filing of the report. You just confirmed that you were going to file it with Canadians and that it would be available to the public, and clearly then available to the Commission as well. I just wanted to clarify, was that an objection to filing it with the Commission on an annual basis?

19374 MS SAUCIER: I don't know what your term means exactly. This is going to be available to you, no doubt about that.

19375 MS PINSKY: Okay.

19376 As well, with respect to the commitment relating to sports, I wanted to confirm that with respect to the increase in the amateur, and I guess decrease in professional but primarily increase in amateur, that that commitment is exclusive of olympic coverage?

19377 MR. REDEKOPP: That's correct.

19378 MS PINSKY: As you know, the licences of Newsworld and RDI have a condition that would limit the amount of programming that can be simulcast on those services and the main service, and you have noted in the course of your discussions that there are numerous programs that are broadcast on both the main service and Newsworld, so here I am speaking of a duplication of service, not of simulcasting of services.

19379 First, would you agree to file with the Commission the number of hours of programming that is carried on both Newsworld and the main service, as well as both RDI and SRC, so that we can have a specific assessment of the amount of duplication of programming that exists?

19380 MS SAUCIER: Perrin.

19381 MR. BEATTY: Yes, we would.

19382 MS PINSKY: That would be on a weekly basis?

19383 MR. BEATTY: I'm sorry?

19384 MS PINSKY: On a weekly basis?

19385 MR. BEATTY: On a weekly basis, I'm sorry. I thought you were looking on a schedule basis.

19386 I would have to consult with my colleagues with regard to that.

19387 MS PINSKY: So that would be the quarterly schedule?

19388 MR. BEATTY: Based on our schedule over the course of a week you would want to know what was being simulcast?

19389 MS PINSKY: Yes, correct. Yes.

19390 MR. BEATTY: Yes, that's fine. You are not asking for detailed logs week-by-week?

19391 MS PINSKY: No, no. No, no.

19392 MR. BEATTY: Fine.

19393 MS PINSKY: To be clear, this was on the instance of the duplication of programming and not simulcast programming. We, of course, knew the number of hours there.

19394 In the CBC's view, would it be appropriate to limit the number of hours of duplicative programming on both the news specialty services and the main service?

19395 MR. BEATTY: I would ask my colleagues to comment on that. My first inclination would be to say that we would not want to be unduly hamstrung in that area.

19396 One of the arguments we have been making for having specialty services is to give us the capacity to move properties around to get the maximum audience. Once we pay taxpayers dollars or once we pay the money that we receive from cable subscribers we want to ensure that for good properties we are able to get the maximum audience, so we would want to have as much flexibility as possible.

19397 I defer to my colleagues on French and English television on that.

19398 MR. REDEKOPP: Well, let me start, and I think Perrin has said it quite correctly for the English services.

19399 I think that we would obviously like not to have our hands tied in terms of ceilings, and so I think we need the flexibility that Perrin has talked about.

19400 Mme FORTIN: Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec Carol. D'ailleurs, les gens nous le demandent souvent: la rediffusion sur l'autre chaîne des émissions qui ne sont pas toujours disponibles à l'heure où ils le désirent. Donc, cela est vu plutôt de la part du public comme un avantage plutôt qu'un inconvénient.

19401 MS PINSKY: Okay. Thank you.

19402 Now I am going to refer specifically to one of the interventions that was filed in this proceeding, that of the Newfoundland Broadcasting Corporation. They filed both a written intervention and, of course, an oral intervention. We don't have the CBC's reply to that so I would like to ask some questions in relation to that.

19403 One of the conditions of licence on CBNT is, of course, one that requires that rates charged for commercials be fair and competitive with the private sector and will be based on the current industry criteria such as cost per thousand and/or cost per rating point, and the condition of licence provides as well, among other things, that the CBC will ensure its commercial practices in Newfoundland are consistent with those in other parts of the country.

19404 First, with respect to the Newfoundland Broadcasting Corporation's intervention that was made in this proceeding in which they submitted an allegation that the CBC has been in breach of this condition, could you confirm whether the invoices that were filed by the intervenor were in fact invoices of the CBC?

19405 MS SAUCIER: Probably Harold might wish to say something, but Perrin first.

19406 MR. BEATTY: Let me defer to Harold on that. He may want to talk to his advertising and research people to check that specifically.

19407 MR. REDEKOPP: I am not aware of the situation and I think the best way to deal with it is to look into the matter and get back to the Commission.

19408 MS PINSKY: So, in other words, you are not in a position right now to respond to the allegations?

19409 MR. REDEKOPP: That's correct.

19410 MS PINSKY: Then yes, if you would undertake to file a response to each specific allegation that was made. Number one, confirming whether or not the invoices filed were in fact CBC invoices; indicating the CBC's response to the allegation leading to each of CBNT's alleged illegal selling practices.

19411 Now I would ask my colleague, Mr. Stewart.

19412 MR. STEWART: Thank you.

19413 Good morning. I would like to start off with the area of advertising, and first of all just a question of clarification.

19414 Your CBC Journalistic Standards and Practices document mentions at paragraph 2.1 areas without any commercial content. It goes on to say:

"Program Policy number 9, networks or local newscasts are not the types of programming that may be sponsored or interrupted for commercials."

19415 (As read)

19416 Now obviously, that doesn't seem to be the case right now.

19417 So the document that I have in front of me, is this out of date?

19418 MR. BEATTY: I will have to defer again to our Media Vice-President. Clearly what we are trying to do with local broadcast is to be able to have them as self-sustaining as possible.

19419 Our journalistic policies and practices are under constant review by our media committee. At the present time, Madame Fortin is chairing the media committee and she may want to comment on that.

19420 MS FORTIN: I don't know exactly about the version you have. I know that since I am at the CBC, and that is for the last seven years, there has always been advertising in local news programming.

19421 So let me check about that.

19422 MR. STEWART: Well, would you please then file the latest version of the CBC Journalistic Standards and Practices --

19423 MS FORTIN: Yes, indeed.

19424 MR. STEWART: -- and can you confirm, also, that that applies both to the French and to the English networks.

19425 MS FORTIN: The policies are the same for all networks.

19426 MR. STEWART: Thank you very much.

19427 Now, would you be -- can you commit to not increasing the type of categories of programming that now do attract advertising, both on the English and the French side?

19428 MS SAUCIER: Michèle might be willing to answer.

19429 MS FORTIN: I think what we have said is that we want to maintain the actual practices. I don't know if there is a twist of your question that I don't see, but we won't put advertising in the programs where we are not putting advertising now.

19430 But maybe you are referring to something like what you just said that I am not aware of.

19431 MR. STEWART: Well, right now, as I understand it, there are types of programs that do attract advertising. My question to you is: Are you prepared to commit to not increase the type of programming that would attract advertising?

19432 MS FORTIN: From my knowledge, children's programming, by policy, don't attract advertising. In different networks -- and Harold may speak about that -- we may have some local strategies where we decide not to put, for instance, advertising in a concert.

19433 We have, on the French network, "Cinéma du Mois" where we don't put advertising in one movie each month. This is new. This may change because it is not a matter of policy, it is more a matter of programming.

19434 So in terms of policy, we will respect our policies, as I said. In terms of decisions that have been taken by each of the networks once in a while, I think this may be reopened for discussion.

19435 MR. STEWART: So you are not willing to give the commitment that I am seeking?

19436 MS FORTIN: These things have been -- and I will let Harold explain probably if he has this on his -- usually we don't put advertising in concerts or ballet. We will put reduced advertising in some. In theatres and movies like "Les Beaux Dimanches", this may vary.

19437 I think it will be a little bit presumptuous to set now that for the next seven years these percentages won't change because they have been set for different programming reasons.

19438 What I am saying is that in terms of our policies, we won't try to increase advertising in the areas where, by policy, we have decided not to put it.

19439 MR. REDEKOPP: On the English side, perhaps I could answer this way. The program categories that are most attractive to our advertisers are news and sports. So I am not sure what your question is leading up to, but if we were to agree with what I think your question is getting at, we would have to say we wouldn't increase news and current affairs.

19440 I think we plan to maintain the balance in the schedule, but I would hate to give an undertaking that might lead to an inappropriate conclusion. But let me just try another way of answering your question, if I may.

19441 I think we have said to the Commission on a number of occasions that we start with a balanced schedule. That is how we start. We don't look at funding first and foremost. We look at trying to create this balanced schedule and meet the commitments that we have outlined. Then, we look to find the appropriate means of funding those programs through ad revenue.

19442 In English Television, we have elected -- well, obviously we don't have advertising in children's; we don't carry advertising in consumer programs, "Marketplace" for example. We don't carry advertising in elections and we don't carry advertising in our performance programming. So we would continue down that road.

19443 I don't know if that answers your question.

19444 MR. STEWART: So you are prepared to commit with respect to those categories of programs that you have just outlined?

19445 MR. REDEKOPP: To continue down that road, yes.

19446 MR. STEWART: Thank you.

19447 Maintenant, je voudrais aborder la question du sous-titrage. Cela concerne le réseau français, les stations régionales françaises et RDI. Je crois comprendre que les radiodiffuseurs privés anglais sont obligés d'avoir un niveau de sous-titrage de 90 pour cent à la fin de leur licence, qui se termine à peu près en 2002.

19448 Est-ce que le réseau français, les stations régionales françaises et RDI seraient prêts à accepter un taux de 90 pour cent pour le sous-titrage?

19449 Mme SAUCIER: Michèle.

19450 Mme FORTIN: Je vais laisser Danielle Desjardins répondre de façon plus spécifique. Mais la programmation... nous nous sommes engagés à ce que les "Ce Soir", qui sont nos programmations régionales par les stations locales, soient sous-titrées, et cet engagement-là est ferme.

19451 J'ai de la misère à répondre à quoi s'adresse le reste de votre question. Je vais demander à Danielle Desjardins de répondre s'il vous plaît.

19452 Mme DESJARDINS: Oui. Je ne sais pas si vous avez vu le tableau qu'on a remis hier avec les heures pour lesquelles le réseau s'est engagé. Le pourcentage va de 40... c'est-à-dire si on part de l'année en cours, c'est de 53 pour cent à 63 pour cent les engagements de...

19453 Me STEWART: Je suis très au courant de cet engagement. Est-ce que vous êtes prêts à augmenter ce niveau de 63 pour cent, par exemple, pour le réseau français, à 90 pour cent? Cela c'était ma question.

19454 Mme FORTIN: Non. Ce n'est pas possible présentement.

19455 Me STEWART: Et cela c'est pour le réseau français et pour les stations régionales et RDI? C'est la même réponse?

19456 Mme FORTIN: Je pense que ce que nous avons déposé, compte tenu des coûts reliés à cette activité-là, c'est le maximum auquel nous pouvons nous engager présentement.

19457 Me STEWART: Merci.

19458 Maintenant, je vais aborder la question des films. Les montants du côté français, je pense que c'est 20 millions; du côté anglais, c'est 30 millions. D'où provient cet argent? Est-ce que c'est de l'argent additionnel à vos prévisions budgétaires que vous avez déposé au Conseil avec votre demande? Est-ce que cet argent va être pris d'un autre poste qui pourrait affecter ou affaiblir la programmation dans un autre domaine?

19459 Mme FORTIN: Pour le réseau français, on considère qu'environ 50 pour cent de ces sommes-là sont déjà consacrées au cinéma canadien. L'autre 50 pour cent va provenir... c'est-à-dire... Je recommence.

19460 Du 20 millions, nous avons identifié une somme d'environ 5 millions qui consiste dans la promotion. Si on considère l'investissement dans les émissions, le 15 millions qui reste, environ 50 pour cent de cette somme-là provient de sommes que nous dépensons déjà pour le cinéma canadien et le reste de la somme va provenir d'une redirection de sommes que nous investissons présentement dans d'autres types d'émissions et qui vont être consacrées à la production et l'investissement dans le cinéma canadien.

19461 Me STEWART: Est-ce qu'alors ce serait possible que vous déposiez des postes de budgets révisés qui tiennent compte du montant alloué au cinéma, tant pour le service français que pour le service anglais?

19462 Mme FORTIN: Écoutez, je ne pense pas qu'on fasse une grille comme ça. Je vais essayer de vous expliquer. C'est que dépendant des années, ces sommes-là peuvent provenir d'un secteur ou d'un autre. Dépendant des coûts des émissions, des choix que nous avons faits, de façon globale, les postes de dépenses qui vont servir à financer ça vont être probablement dans le cinéma étranger et la dramatique canadienne pour la télévision.

19463 Mais c'est très difficile, à moins de faire un exercice purement théorique, de vous indiquer, dès maintenant, pour les sept prochaines années, d'où ces sommes-là vont provenir. C'est un équilibre de grille où une partie de l'argent va aller au cinéma canadien. Certaines autres émissions vont être abandonnées et remplacées par des émissions moins coûteuses.

19464 Je pense qu'on ne peut pas uniquement vous dire: Ce poste-là va passer à ce poste-là. C'est l'ensemble de l'équilibre de la grille qui nous permet de dire qu'à travers les années, on va dégager des sommes pour investir dans le cinéma canadien, pour investir dans les régions, pour faire plus de programmation culturelle, en faisant probablement moins de cinéma étranger, moins de sport, moins de dramatique canadienne. Mais c'est un exercice où l'équilibre est atteint, année après année, et cela varie dépendant des années. Ce n'est pas de la mauvaise volonté, je vous assure.

19465 MR. STEWART: And for the English Network?

19466 MR. REDEKOPP: The situation in English Television is virtually the same as with French television. A portion of the $30 million that we are committing is already earmarked for Canadian films. The remainder will come from other parts of the schedule.

19467 The metaphor I would use here is that this is all like a Rubik's Cube. You have to redirect from one thing and the whole thing changes. I think it is very, very difficult to be as precise perhaps as you would like, for us to show exactly where budgets will go and will come from.

19468 The commitment is there, the commitment is serious, and we are obviously interested in getting as many high-quality Canadian films to the public as possible.

19469 MR. STEWART: What I am trying to get a handle on is what other programming will be affected by the reallocation of funds for feature films?

19470 Mme FORTIN: Du côté français, fort probablement, le cinéma étranger et la dramatique canadienne parce que ce sont des fonds qui servent à peu près aux mêmes finalités.

19471 MR. REDEKOPP: On the English side, I would say that because we are striving to keep a balance between what I will call news and information on the one hand and arts and entertainment on the other, it will probably come from somewhere in the large arts and entertainment budget so that we maintain a balance between those two sectors.

19472 Me STEWART: Maintenant, ma dernière question concerne ce que vous avez fait dans votre présentation, madame Fortin.

19473 Vous avez dit que:

"Mous nous engageons à faire moins de sport."

19474 Qu'est-ce que cela veut dire?

19475 Mme FORTIN: Nous avons, au cours des dernières années, au fur et à mesure de la renégociation des contrats de sport, réduit le nombre de parties de hockey et de base-ball. Nous avons coupé en deux le nombre de parties de base-ball. Nous avons réduit le nombre de parties de hockey.

19476 Ce que nous disons c'est que nous n'avons pas l'intention d'accroître le volume de sports et qu'il est fort probable, compte tenu de la situation des Expos à Montréal, entre autres, compte tenu de la négociation de la Formule 1 avec RDS et de ce qui se passe dans le domaine du sport, que d'ici la fin des sept ans, nous ayons en effet moins de sports professionnels à l'antenne.

19477 Me STEWART: Mais c'est un engagement, je pense, que vous nous avez donné?

19478 Mme FORTIN: Ce n'est pas dans les engagements, c'est dans la présentation parce que nous voulions répondre à la préoccupation du Conseil de l'équilibre de la grille.

19479 Monsieur Colville nous demandait, et madame Bertrand aussi: Votre télévision aura l'air de quoi dans sept ans? Donc, c'est une vision de ce que je pense que notre télévision va avoir l'air dans sept ans.

19480 Je pense que le niveau de sports professionnels au réseau français est relativement limité, mais malgré tout, si je lis dans l'avenir, je pense qu'il y en aura encore moins dans sept ans. Mais ça ne fait pas partie de nos engagements.

19481 Me STEWART: Quand vous parlez de sport, c'est du sport professionnel?

19482 Mme FORTIN: Oui, chez nous, on fait relativement peu de sport amateur en dehors des Olympiques. On fait de la présentation et de la valorisation d'athlètes. On fait du magazine, mais dans les faits, on a trois sports professionnels: le hockey, le base-ball et le tennis.

19483 Me STEWART: Donc, vous ne comptez pas accroître le nombre d'heures allouées au sport amateur? Est-ce que c'est vrai?

19484 Mme FORTIN: Non. Les priorités de la télévision française sont vraiment concentrées sur les quatre secteurs dont je vous ai parlé au cours des trois dernières semaines, c'est-à-dire information, affaires publiques, dramatique, jeunesse, culture... et culture pris au sens large, y compris la chanson et les arts populaires. Ce sont les secteurs qu'on veut développer, dans lequel on va investir, et pas vraiment le sport amateur.

19485 Me STEWART: Donc, l'intervenant de Sports-Québec va être assez déçu?

19486 Mme FORTIN: Écoutez, le directeur de la programmation a fixé un rendez-vous avec lui. On a eu beaucoup de conversations avec cet intervenant-là. La diffusion de performances sportives à l'antenne n'est pas une priorité présentement. On peut peut-être arriver à une sorte d'entente avec lui qui permettra de satisfaire ses aspirations.

19487 Mais vous nous avez demandé, et notre conseil nous a demandé de faire des choix, et le sport n'est pas chez nous un choix prioritaire dans la grille de la télévision française, qu'il soit professionnel ou amateur.

19488 Me STEWART: Merci. Je céderai le micro à ma collègue.

19489 MS PINSKY: I would just like to confirm when you would be in a position to file the information that we have sought today. There are several.

19490 In terms of filing the journalistic policy, would you be in a position to do that by tomorrow? The list of duplicative programming?

19491 M. TREMBLAY: Nous nous engageons à déposer ces renseignements d'ici à demain.

19492 Mme PINSKY: D'ici à demain? Tous les engagements?

19493 M. TREMBLAY: On parle du code journalistique?

19494 Mme PINSKY: Oui.

19495 M. TREMBLAY: On parle de la question des émissions en duplication entre Newsworld et le réseau?

19496 Mme PINSKY: Oui.

19497 M. TREMBLAY: Est-ce qu'il y a autre chose?

19498 Mme PINSKY: Oui, il y avait la réplique aux allégations de la Corporation de Newfoundland Broadcasting.

19499 M. TREMBLAY: Les questions sur Terre-Neuve? Oui, aussi.

19500 Mme PINSKY: O.k. Et puis aussi, les révisions aux renseignements par rapport au sport?

19501 M. TREMBLAY: J'aimerais prendre conseil auprès de monsieur Atkinson s'il vous plaît.

19502 When are we likely to be able to file the revised financial data?

19503 MR. ATKINSON: We should be able to provide that next week.

19504 MS PINSKY: When next week?

19505 MR. ATKINSON: Wednesday next week.

19506 MS PINSKY: Wednesday?

19507 MR. ATKINSON: Yes.

19508 MS PINSKY: Okay. A week today. Thank you.

19509 Ce sont toutes nos questions. Merci.

19510 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Cela complète toutes nos questions. On termine trois semaines d'audiences, en fait, plusieurs mois de long travail. L'audience publique sur les renouvellements des licences de Radio-Canada tire maintenant à sa fin.

19511 Au cours de ce processus d'audiences et de consultations, nous avons reçu des commentaires de bien des gens, aussi variés les uns que les autres à ce sujet.

19512 Radio-Canada a fait l'objet d'une foule de commentaires sur son rôle unique au sein du système de radiodiffusion canadien et la façon dont elle devrait jouer ce rôle.

19513 Certains d'entre vous avez suggéré en détail de quelle façon elle devrait fonctionner. D'autres encore avaient même mis en doute son existence.

19514 En réponse à certaines de ces suggestions, j'aimerais réitérer très clairement que le Conseil n'a jamais mis en doute la raison d'être de Radio-Canada. Tout comme la Loi le définit, nous réalisons pleinement l'importance et le besoin d'un organisme de radiodiffusion publique canadien.

19515 Selon nous, Radio-Canada doit jouer un rôle crucial au sein de ce système. Radio-Canada est, et devrait demeurer, un élément vital à l'intérieur du système de radiodiffusion canadien. Bien sûr, quand je dis Radio-Canada, comme le masculin l'emporte sur le féminin, cela veut dire aussi CBC.

19516 With that as our understanding, we said at the beginning of this hearing that we wish to look at how the CBC intended to fulfil its mandate in the years ahead. The CBC's mandate remains large, but its resources are now more limited than they were in the past licence term.

19517 Bearing these constraints in mind, some of the strategic issues in front of the Commission are ones of balance. For example, we will have to examine how resource allocation should be balanced within the CBC, between the core radio and television networks and other ventures that may form part of a larger constellation of services.

19518 What is the proper balance between regional and national programming on both radio and television? What is the most appropriate balance between dependence on government appropriations and commercial revenues?

19519 With respect to CBC Television, what is the best balance between news, information, entertainment and sports in real time? How should sports coverage be balanced between professional and amateur? How should program production be balanced between independent producers and CBC producers?

19520 What is the proper balance between the role of the CRTC in fulfilling its regulatory mandate and not intruding in the day-to-day management of the CBC and of course of the responsibility of Parliament?

19521 We wanted to hear from the CBC itself on these issues but we also wanted to hear from as many people as possible who were interested in the CBC and we certainly have. I don't believe that anybody would disagree when I say that discussions around the CBC stir up a lot of passion.

19522 We as commissioners have benefited greatly from your passion for and interest in these issues. The richness and breadth of all the views that have been presented to us will help us immeasurably when the Commission considers these issues.

19523 Up to now, we have only asked the questions and listened with open minds to the answers. Now, the difficult part begins: Assessing all of the views we heard to make our decisions.

19524 Nous pouvons certainement dire que nous avons tous contribué à créer un dossier public riche d'information qui nous permettra une analyse en profondeur. Ceci nous aidera à prendre les décisions conformément aux responsabilités du Conseil dans le renouvellement des licences de toutes les titulaires regroupées sous la corporation de Radio-Canada.

19525 We would like to thank the CBC for its tremendous cooperation with this hearing process, both Radio-Canada, CBC, Newsworld, RDI, both in radio and in television. You have promptly provided us with a lot of crucial information that has allowed us to create very helpful files.

19526 En conclusion, j'aimerais vous remercier tous de votre participation à cette audience.

19527 J'aimerais également remercier toutes celles et ceux qui ont pris part aux consultations publiques et nous ont envoyé leurs commentaires par écrit. Nous apprécions le temps et les efforts que vous avez consacré pour nous aider à mieux comprendre vos préoccupations et vos intérêts en regard de la Société Radio-Canada.

19528 Je sais que ces audiences ont demandé beaucoup de la part de chacun et nous l'apprécions grandement. Votre contribution est essentielle à la valeur de ce processus public et pour que le Conseil puisse prendre de sages décisions.

19529 J'aimerais également remercier mes collègues pour leur participation et l'équipe du Conseil qui nous ont soutenu tout au long de ce processus.

19530 Merci à Nick Ketchum et à son équipe pour nous avoir fourni l'information adéquate et nous avoir conseillé sur les questions pertinentes. Je les remercie d'avance pour tout le travail d'analyse qui s'amorcera au cours des prochains mois.

19531 Merci à Alastair Stewart et Carolyn Pinsky pour nous avoir guidés sur les questions juridiques.

19532 Un gros merci à Diane Santerre et Carol Bénard qui, à titre de secrétaires de cette audience, ont été un peu nos anges gardiens.

19533 Tous nos remerciements également à l'équipe de traduction à l'endroit de qui parfois nous allions trop vite, et aussi de transcription, à l'équipe de CPAC et de radio qui a permis la transmission de cette audience pour ceux qui préféreraient être à l'écoute mais en retrait ou pour ceux qui ne pouvaient pas se rendre à Hull directement et voulaient suivre les audiences.

19534 J'aimerais remercier ceux d'entre vous qui nous ont fourni tous les autres services et qui nous ont été d'une aide inestimable durant cette audience.

19535 Un gros merci à tous les autres employés du CRTC qui ne sont pas avec nous actuellement mais dont la contribution a permis la réalisation de cette audience.

19536 Je vois les journalistes. Je vous remercie. Vous avez suivi avec intérêt cette audience et cela permet d'aller plus loin dans le processus public et de faire en sorte qu'à l'agenda public des questions aussi importantes que les prochaines années pour la diffusion publique ont été à l'agenda des différents médias.

19537 Bonne fin de journée. Bon été.

19538 Madame Cram a certainement un petit bonjour spécial pour Michael.

19539 À tous, merci beaucoup.

19540 Bonne fin de journée. Au revoir.

--- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1214 /

L'audience se termine à 1214

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