TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

      THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT

       LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

   ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

SUBJECT:

Applications to Provide an All Channel Alert Service /

demandes visant la fourniture d'un service

d'alerte tous canaux

HELD AT:             TENUE À:

Conference Centre             Centre de conférences

Outaouais Room             Salle Outaouais

140 Promenade du Portage             140, Promenade du Portage

Gatineau, Quebec             Gatineau (Québec)

May 1^st, 2006          Le 1^er mai 2006

Transcripts

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

Transcription

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

Canadian Radio‑television and

Telecommunications Commission

  Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

télécommunications canadiennes

Transcript / Transcription

Applications to Provide an All Channel Alert Service /

demandes visant la fourniture d'un service

d'alerte tous canaux

BEFORE / DEVANT:

Michel Arpin          Chairperson / Président

Joan Pennefather          Commissioner / Conseillère

Helen del Val          Commissioner / Conseillère

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

Chantal Boulet     Secretary / Secrétaire

Peter McCallum/          Legal Counsel /

Reynolds Mastin          Conseillers juridiques

Gerard Bergin          Manager, Broadcast

Technology / Gestionnaire

de technologie en

radiodiffusion

HELD AT:          TENUE À:

Conference Centre          Centre de conférences

Outaouais Room          Salle Outaouais

140 Promenade du Portage          140, Promenade du Portage

Gatineau, Quebec          Gatineau (Québec)

May 1^st, 2006          Le 1^er mai 2006

TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

   PAGE / PARA

PHASE I

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

Pelmorex Communications Inc. 8 /   40

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 160 /  871

Bell ExpressVu    266 / 1492

PHASE II

INVERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:

Pelmorex Communications Inc. 308 / 1696

Bell ExpressVu    323 / 1774

Gatineau, Quebec / Gatineau (Québec)

‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Monday, May 1^st, 2006 at 0929 /

    L'audience débute le lundi 1^er mai 2006 à 0929

LISTNUM 1 \l 11     THE CHAIRPERSON:  Please be seated.

LISTNUM 1 \l 12     Thank you very much.  Order, please.

LISTNUM 1 \l 13     Well good morning, ladies and gentlemen and welcome to this public hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 14     My name is Michel Arpin and I was born in Montreal and I am the Vice‑Chair of Broadcasting for the CRTC.  I will be presiding over this hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 15     Joining me on the panel are my colleagues Helen del VAL, Regional Commissioner for British Columbia and the Yukon, and Joan Pennefather, National Commissioner.

LISTNUM 1 \l 16     L'équipe du Conseil qui nous assiste se compose, notamment, du Gérant de l'audience Gerald Bergin, gestionnaire de la technologie de radiodiffusion; de Peter McCallum et Reynolds Mastin, conseillers juridiques; ainsi que de Chantal Boulet, Secrétaire d'audience, auprès de qui vous pourrez vous renseigner sur toute question relative au déroulement de l'audience.

LISTNUM 1 \l 17     During this hearing we will examine three proposals to provide Canadians with emergency alert services.  The need for a national alerting system has been apparent for some time, all the more so following the recent weather disasters in North America and throughout the world.

LISTNUM 1 \l 18     Nevertheless, given the crucial role it will play, it is especially important that the merits of each of the proposed alerting systems be carefully considered.  That is why we are here today.

LISTNUM 1 \l 19     The panel will first look at the proposal by Pelmorex Communications to amend the licence of The Weather Network/MétéoMédia to enable it to provide an All Channel Alert service to broadcasting distribution undertakings across Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 110     The service will broadcast alerts and messages related to imminent and unexpected threats to life or property caused by severe weather disturbances, natural disasters and other emergencies.

LISTNUM 1 \l 111     To implement its project, the licensee is proposing to amend its licence and to increase its maximum authorized wholesale rate.

LISTNUM 1 \l 112     Pelmorex is also asking the Commission to issue a distribution order pursuant to paragraph 9(1)(h) of the Broadcasting Act.

LISTNUM 1 \l 113     Le Comité d'audition entendra ensuite la demande de la Société Radio‑Canada/Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, qui souhaite fournir un service de diffusion publique de messages d'alerte en cas d'urgence par le biais de ses émetteurs radiophoniques.

LISTNUM 1 \l 114     Le Comité d'audition examinera également la proposition de Bell ExpressVu Limited Partnership en vue de distribuer à ses abonnés un service d'alerte en cas d'urgence.  Les messages d'alerte bilingues seraient présentés à l'aide de textes fixes par défilement à l'écran sous forme alphanumérique et par un avertissement audio.

LISTNUM 1 \l 115     The CBC/Radio‑Canada and Bell ExpressVu request to be relieved of the broadcasting obligation set out in section 7(d) of the Broadcasting Distribution Regulations in order to obtain the agreement of the operator of the programming service, the network or the distribution undertaking prior to inserting an emergency alert message into the programming service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 116     En terminant, j'aimerais préciser que, pour examiner la demande présentée par le Groupe de Radiodiffusion Astral en vue de renouveler la licence de VRAK.TV, c'est‑à‑dire l'article 6 de l'Avis d'audience publique de radiodiffusion CRTC‑2006‑3, le Comité d'audition sera modifié.  En effet, le président du CRTC, monsieur Charles Dalfen, le présidera, en compagnie des conseillères Helen del Val et Joan Pennefather.

LISTNUM 1 \l 117     Before proceeding to our examination of the application, I will now invite the Secretary, Mrs. Chantal Boulet, to explain the procedures we will be following.

LISTNUM 1 \l 118     Mrs. Boulet.

LISTNUM 1 \l 119     LA SECRÉTAIRE : Merci, Monsieur le Président.

LISTNUM 1 \l 120     First, I would like to go over a few housekeeping matters to ensure the proper conduct of the hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 121     For your information, interpretation services are available during the hearing.  To obtain an interpretation receiver, please see the technician at the back of the room.  The English interpretation is on channel 6 and la traduction française est au canal 7.

LISTNUM 1 \l 122     When you are in the hearing room, we would ask that you please turn off your cell phones, beepers, BlackBerries and other text messaging devices as they are unwelcome distractions for our participants and commissioners as they cause interference on the internal communication systems used by our translators.

LISTNUM 1 \l 123     We would appreciate your cooperation in this regard throughout the hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 124     We expect the hearing to take approximately two and a half days.  We will begin each morning, starting tomorrow, at 9:00 and finish each afternoon around 6:30 p.m.  We will take an hour for lunch and a break in the morning and in the afternoon.  We will let you know of any schedule changes that may occur.

LISTNUM 1 \l 125     Pendant toute la durée de l'audience, vous pourrez consulter les documents qui font partie du dossier public pour cette audience dans la salle d'examen qui se trouve dans la Salle Papineau, à l'extérieur de la salle d'audience à votre gauche.  Tel qu'indiqué dans l'ordre du jour, le numéro de téléphone de la salle d'examen est le 819‑953‑3168.

LISTNUM 1 \l 126     Please note that the full transcript of this hearing will be made available on the Commission's website shortly after the conclusion of the hearing.  If you have any questions on how to obtain all or part of this transcript, please approach the Court Reporter at the table in front of me.

LISTNUM 1 \l 127     The applications being considered at this hearing will follow the four‑phase approach for competitive hearings as follows.

LISTNUM 1 \l 128     First, we will hear each applicant in the agenda order and each applicant will be granted 20 minutes for their presentation.  Questions from the Commission will follow each presentation.

LISTNUM 1 \l 129     Au cours de la deuxième phase, les requérantes pourront choisir de comparaître à nouveau, dans le même ordre, pour présenter leur intervention relative aux demandes concurrentes.  Elles disposeront de 10 minutes pour le faire, et le Conseil pourra les interroger par la suite.

LISTNUM 1 \l 130     In Phase III, other parties will appear in the order set out in the agenda to present their intervention and 10 minutes will be allowed for each presentation.  Again, questions from the Commission may follow.

LISTNUM 1 \l 131     La quatrième phase permet à chaque requérante de répondre à toutes les interventions émises à l'égard de leur demande.  Les requérantes comparaissent dans l'ordre inverse et disposent de 10 minutes pour répondre.  Le Conseil pourrait, à nouveau, poser ensuite des questions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 132     Finally, I would like to note for the record that documents have been added to the application of Pelmorex Communications Inc.

LISTNUM 1 \l 133     One is a letter from the Commission to the applicant regarding the issue of mandatory digital distribution by Pelmorex of its ALL CHANNEL ALERT signal and the financial consequences resulting thereof, and the other documents are revised financial projections.

LISTNUM 1 \l 134     Both documents are available on the public file in the examination room.

LISTNUM 1 \l 135     Now, Mr. Chairman, we will proceed with item 1 on the agenda, which is an application by Pelmorex Communications Inc. to amend its licence for The Weather Network/MétéoMédia to provide an All Channel Alert service to broadcasting distribution undertakings across Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 136     If approved, the service would broadcast alerts and messages related to imminent and unexpected threats to life or property caused by severe weather disturbances, natural disasters or other emergencies in local, regional and national areas of Canada for distribution on the licensee's services and on the other channels offered by BDUs that distribute the licensee's services.

LISTNUM 1 \l 137     Ces alertes seraient diffusées au nom d'organismes fédéraux compétents comme Environnement Canada, de même qu'au nom d'autorités provinciales et territoriales compétentes.  Les téléspectateurs des régions touchées recevraient les avertissements diffusés à l'échelle locale, quel que soit le canal qu'ils regardent.

LISTNUM 1 \l 138     Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Pierre Morrissette who will introduce his colleagues.  You will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation.

LISTNUM 1 \l 139     Gentlemen.

PRESENTATION/PRÉSENTATION

LISTNUM 1 \l 140     MR. MORRISSETTE:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission.

LISTNUM 1 \l 141     My name is Pierre Morrissette, President and CEO of Pelmorex Communications Inc., the licensee of The Weather Network and MétéoMédia.  I am pleased to be here today to present our proposal for an All Channel Alert service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 142     With me is our ACA team who have been working on this concept for many years.

LISTNUM 1 \l 143     On my right is Paul Temple, Senior Vice‑President of Regulatory and Strategic Affairs and who has been driving this project for us for many years now.

LISTNUM 1 \l 144     Beside him is Alysia Charlton, our Chief Financial Officer and Senior Vice‑President, Corporate Division.

LISTNUM 1 \l 145     To my left is Luc Perreault, Vice‑President, Affiliate and Government Relations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 146     In the second row from left to right are Marc Bernier, Director, Technical Engineering; Jean‑Pierre Boulanger, Senior Vice‑President and Chief Information and Technology Officer; Tawnie McNabb, Pelmorex's Corporate Controller; and Scott Prescott, our Legal Counsel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 147     We are before you today to request an amendment to the Specialty Television licence of The Weather Network and MétéoMédia to permit alerts and emergency messages to be sent over all channels distributed by BDUs and to allow a fee for the cost of this all channel alerting service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 148     We also request a distribution order so that every Class 1 cable and DTH distribution undertaking distributes the ACA signals once available.

LISTNUM 1 \l 149     These measures will ensure a state‑of‑the‑art broadcast alerting system serving the maximum number of Canadians.

LISTNUM 1 \l 150     Before we begin, we would like to show a short video that share our vision for an All Channel Alert system.

‑‑‑ Video presentation / Présentation vidéo

LISTNUM 1 \l 151     MR. MORRISSETTE:  Commissioners, this concept has generated a lot of support in the emergency planning community and with the public.  More than 700 people and organizations took the time to write to the CRTC.  They include nearly 100 municipalities from Vancouver Island to Gander, Newfoundland; some 20 associations with safety mandates; federal MPs and Senators; and hundreds of concerned individuals.

LISTNUM 1 \l 152     The demand for our ACA service is unequivocal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 153     Cette initiative n'est pas un luxe.  Il existe un besoin urgent pour notre service, qui protégera la vie et les biens des Canadiens.  Il est évident que le nombre et la sévérité des événements météorologiques violents s'accroissent.  Les inondations furent nombreuses et importantes ce printemps, et tout porte à croire que cette situation sera encore pire dans cinq ans.

LISTNUM 1 \l 154     Également, la densité urbaine augmente les risques auxquels les Canadiens pourraient être confrontés.  Le terrorisme demeure une possibilité.  Les municipalités ont des plans d'urgence, mais le maillon faible est au niveau des communications d'urgence avec le grand public.

LISTNUM 1 \l 155     They are worried about tsunamis on the B.C. coast; forest fires and tornadoes in Alberta; train derailments and transport of dangerous goods in Saskatchewan; flooding in Manitoba; derailments, seasonal flooding and forest fires in Ontario; landslides and winter storms in Québec; natural gas, oil refinery and nuclear safety issues in New Brunswick; and violent coastal weather in Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and Newfoundland.

LISTNUM 1 \l 156     In our consultations with municipal and provincial officials, some told us their biggest concern is aging infrastructure and another tragedy like Walkerton.  They know Pelmorex's ALL CHANNEL ALERT will save lives.  They want it now.

LISTNUM 1 \l 157     M. TEMPLE:  In CRTC Decision 2001‑123, you outlined what an all channel alert system must do to meet your approval.  We have listened and responded.  We are pleased to present this, our second and improved application for an all channel alert service that features a lower price;

LISTNUM 1 \l 158     a technical solution for every cable head end configuration, both digital and analog;

LISTNUM 1 \l 159     extensive work to ensure an early launch on DTH and MMDS systems;

LISTNUM 1 \l 160     a commitment to implement our satellite solution in the same year service is offered to cable;

LISTNUM 1 \l 161     a commitment to work collaboratively with distributors to provide the technical solutions appropriate to them;

LISTNUM 1 \l 162     an implementation plan involving ongoing consultations with our stakeholders; and

LISTNUM 1 \l 163     a simultaneous alert service to local radio and television stations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 164     Today we would like to tell you why our service is best at meeting the needs of Canadians and why Pelmorex is particularly qualified to operate it.  We will look at our business case and we will review in more detail how we have addressed your concerns.

LISTNUM 1 \l 165     Our ACA system offers the greatest benefits to Canadians.

LISTNUM 1 \l 166     First, our service will reach more Canadians than any other proposal.  It is required for DTH and large cable systems, reaching 91 percent of households within three years of launch.

LISTNUM 1 \l 167     Second, we offer an end‑to‑end service, taking responsibility for the message from the time it leaves the authorized emergency alert provider.

LISTNUM 1 \l 168     We offer one system, one point of contact, one point of accountability.  We will support installation and provide operations, maintenance and ongoing upgrades to equipment.

LISTNUM 1 \l 169     We will make training and public education available.  If there are issues, we will follow up and adjust our procedures.

LISTNUM 1 \l 170     Our emergency partners have told us they don't want to deal with a patchwork of systems.  With our system, they won't have to.

LISTNUM 1 \l 171     Third, we are the only applicant with a business plan that provides service to all Canadian subscribers at one price.  A blended rate makes it affordable for small systems to participate in the safety of their communities.

LISTNUM 1 \l 172     Finally, we have a solid financial plan to pay for equipment, ongoing maintenance, training and upgrades.  If our licence amendment is approved, we can deliver.

LISTNUM 1 \l 173     MS CHARLTON:  Pelmorex is uniquely qualified to run this service.  The Weather Network and MétéoMédia have been in the alerting business for 18 years.  We provide vital local weather information to more than 10 million Canadian households in English and in French, including weather alerts from Environment Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 174     Our unique enabling technology resides in 1,300 locations from coast to coast.

LISTNUM 1 \l 175     We recently announced an alert service with the provinces of New Brunswick and Québec for a similar service to broadcast authorized local alerts of all kinds on The Weather Network and MétéoMédia.  The foundation of the ACA service is in place and it works.

LISTNUM 1 \l 176     We also have the relationships and credibility with emergency authorities to take on this challenge.  This is demonstrated by the support from the Canadian Centre for Emergency Management, the Canadian Red Cross, the Canadian Risks and Hazards Network, the Centre for Catastrophic Loss Reduction, the Canadian Safety Association, l'Association de Sécurité Civile du Québec, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, le Bureau du Coroner du Québec, et la Fédération québécoise des Municipalités.

LISTNUM 1 \l 177     Our technology expertise means that Pelmorex has the vision and capacity to anticipate new opportunities for improved service as technology evolves, and to continuously enhance the ACA service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 178     For all of these reasons, alerting experience, infrastructure, relationships with emergency authorities, technical skills, as well as the business plan, studies and consultation that anchor our application, we can hit the ground running when our licence amendment is approved and deliver over the long haul.

LISTNUM 1 \l 179     Our business case is based on a subscriber‑pay model regulated by the Commission similar to the 9‑1‑1 telephone service.  Our $0.08 fee reflects substantial capital costs, ongoing operations and the upgrading necessary for an effective warning system.  It reflects service to both analog and digital subscribers and the myriad technologies and systems used by BDUs, whether cable, DTH, MMDS or telco.  It reflects the fact we offer alerts and ACA equipment to more than 1,300 cable head ends.

LISTNUM 1 \l 180     We have designed a properly managed and operated alerting system that is fully funded and sustainable over the long haul.  This is a serious business:  Lives are stake and it has to be done right.

LISTNUM 1 \l 181     We offer this service at one price to all Canadian television subscribers in large communities and small.  Our commitment and efficiency ensure good value.

LISTNUM 1 \l 182     We surveyed 1,700 Canadians about paying for a broadcast alert service.  Eighty‑two percent said they felt $0.50 a month would be fair, and we are a fraction of that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 183     Many intervenors, including Canada's Association for the 50 Plus, wrote that less than $1.00 a year was a small price to pay for the security an ACA service would provide.

LISTNUM 1 \l 184     M. MORRISSETTE:  Our proposal is for an analog and digital solution required for all Class 1 systems.  The business model reflects the fact that analog alerting, which is equipment‑based, is more capital intensive than the digital solution, which is software‑based.

LISTNUM 1 \l 185     The analog solution is also more expensive because of the costs of maintaining equipment in the field.

LISTNUM 1 \l 186     Vidéotron has suggested an alternative alerting model whereby an ACA service would be required for Class 1 digital systems, but would be optional for analog.  It is an idea we are prepared to explore.  This model would allow us to lower our costs and our fee.

LISTNUM 1 \l 187     The trade‑off is that fewer Canadian homes would receive alerts in the short term.

LISTNUM 1 \l 188     Since we filed our application, the Commission has introduced its digital migration framework which will accelerate the phase‑out of analog service.  This makes an analog optional model worth exploring.

LISTNUM 1 \l 189     We expect that some major distributors would still opt to provide analog alerting, even if they were only required to alert their digital customers.  Should the Commission find this model has merit, we would be prepared to proceed on that basis.

LISTNUM 1 \l 190     Nous avons développé notre demande en tenant compte du feed‑back de tous les intervenants, et notre engagement est de continuer de travailler de concert tant avec les autorités oeuvrant dans le domaine des mesures d'urgence que les distributeurs, les radiodiffuseurs, les regroupements de consommateurs tels les associations représentant les personnes sourdes et malentendantes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 191     Nous sommes particulièrement disposés à travailler avec CANALERT, un projet qui n'existait pas au moment du dépôt de notre demande.  Nous travaillons, d'ailleurs, depuis plus de 10 ans avec Industrie Canada et le prédécesseur de CANALERT, le Weather Alert Steering Committee.  Nous avons également conduit des tests afin de valider notre technologie durant cette période.

LISTNUM 1 \l 192     Nous nous engageons à utiliser des standards à être développés par CANALERT et considérons que notre proposition est pleinement compatible avec cette dernière.

LISTNUM 1 \l 193     Nous bénéficions déjà des opinions expertes de notre comité aviseur composé de 12 éminents spécialistes qui oeuvrent dans le domaine des mesures d'urgence, représentant trois paliers gouvernementaux.

LISTNUM 1 \l 194     Nous avons également recueilli des commentaires lors de consultations avec des représentants d'une centaine de groupes qui oeuvrent dans le domaine des mesures d'urgence d'un océan à l'autre.  Leur feed‑back nous a aidés dans la préparation de notre demande.

LISTNUM 1 \l 195     Nous planifions aussi la mise sur pied d'un groupe de travail, lors du lancement et la mise en service du RAM, composé de radiodiffuseurs et de distributeurs.  Ces derniers seront des joueurs clés quant à leur contribution au contenu de la campagne de notoriété publique aux périodes de test du système, ainsi qu'à toute autre activité reliée au lancement d'une telle initiative.

LISTNUM 1 \l 196     Les consultations ne s'arrêteront pas après le lancement du service.  Un comité technique permanent composé d'un représentant des distributeurs, radiodiffuseurs et fournisseurs aura pour but de continuer le développement de la transmission des alertes via les décodeurs numériques.  De plus, nous proposons de tenir une revue continuelle des plaintes afin de prévenir toute mauvaise utilisation ou tout abus du système RAM.

LISTNUM 1 \l 197     MR. TEMPLE:  In February 2001, the Commission noted the merits of our first ACA proposal and laid out the test that any future applications would have to meet.

LISTNUM 1 \l 198     You asked for closer cooperation among broadcasters, distributors and other interested parties.  We provided extensive executive and technical briefings to trade associations and major players in the broadcasting and distribution fields.

LISTNUM 1 \l 199     We met with the CAB, the CCTA and the CCSA, the satellite service providers and with individual broadcasters and cable companies.  We were thorough, generous with technical information and sought real input.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1100     We also met with emergency response and public safety experts.  We presented our service concept at the Broadcast Public Alerting Working Group and Industry Canada Steering Committee meetings.  We briefed no less than six federal departments and had extensive meetings with provincial governments that have already led, in some cases, to expanded alerting on The Weather Network and MétéoMédia.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1101     On costs to consumers, you asked for more detailed accounting.  We went back, took changing technology into account and sharpened our pencils.  We have lowered our price from $0.13 per subscriber to $0.08 per subscriber, while improving the service.  And we have provided you with detailed financial appendices to show where the money is going.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1102     With respect to the needs of the visually impaired, our application proposes an audio clip to provide standard audio notice with full information on websites and through a 1‑800 number.  The Canadian National Institute For The Blind helped us get feedback through their website.  The National Broadcast Reading Service noted our extensive consultation when it again supported us.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1103     On the technical side, our appendices fill several binders, and again we have been thorough.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1104     You had concerns about interconnecting regional systems.  We addressed these with practical, workable solutions for all head‑end configurations.  We provided them to the CCTA for review and engaged an independent consultant whose report is included as Appendix I.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1105     We have also worked hard to document digital solutions.  Our consultant's report showing there are no technical barriers to targeting local information to satellite subscribers in Appendix J is borne out by ExpressVu's application.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1106     M. MORRISSETTE : En conclusion, je voudrais réitérer le caractère essentiel de ce service, dont le besoin est immédiat, mais qui doit être conçu et déployé de la bonne façon.  Toutes les instances publiques qui sont intervenues lors de cette audience et qui ont fait état de leurs besoins en termes de communications d'urgence nous ont tous fait part du fait que l'absence d'un réseau de communications d'urgence constitue le chaînon manquant de leur planification et que tout délai dans la mise sur pied d'une telle initiative leur est inacceptable.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1107     Our application is fully funded, with a responsible, sustainable business plan.  It maximizes the distribution of alerts to Canadians, whether they live in large communities or small ones.  It is based on 18 years of alerting experience and comprehensive consultation with emergency experts, with broadcasters and distributors from coast to coast.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1108     Canada must be ready to meet the challenges of climate change and other emergency situations.  Its citizens, communities and emergency organizations have expressed a real need and urgent demand for this service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1109     Our proposal will provide Canada with the leading emergency alert system in the world.  We are proud to have initiated this process, and hope to play an expanded role in improving the safety of Canadians.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1110     We would now be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1111     LE PRÉSIDENT:  Merci, Monsieur Morrissette.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1112     For those in the room, if I'm wearing a headset it is because I have a hearing problem.  So I am listening to the floor sound, I am not listening to translation.  So don't be afraid, I am hearing you very well with the headset.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1113     I will now ask Mrs. Pennefather to initiate the questions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1114     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1115     Ladies and gentlemen, good morning.  Thank you for your presentation which, as you remarked, is detailed, as are your many binders of documentation.  I thank you for some of the appendices which were labelled in layman's terms.  They were considerably helpful.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1116     I have, on behalf of my colleagues, questions in four basic areas, areas dealing with policy, technology, financial issues and legal issues.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1117     I think you will find that we cross back and forth, however, when we are talking in these different areas with some of the same points, but looking at it from different angles.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1118     Obviously I have all the material, but we will be particularly referring to your application and the supplementary brief to some of the appendices, particularly D, F and G, your deficiency response and your reply.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1119     In asking the questions and in your responses there are some general areas that I hope we can come back to to get further clarification as we go through all the questioning.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1120     Some of these would be, for example, coordination of your proposal with existing and future other alert systems, should they go forward; the coordination with the broadcasting industry and the distribution industry going forward; and details of implementation and system usage.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1121     You will find me coming back to these points consistently in each of the areas.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1122     If you are ready, we will begin in the policy area and I have some rather specific questions that really try to fine‑tune our understanding of how it will work, particularly starting with language.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1123     When subscribers get the message ‑‑ and thank you for the demonstration this morning ‑‑ they will be sent through the system and they will see a text message as we saw in the demonstration today, either a crawl or a full message, and a generic audio message.  We understand that you intend to transit English alerts on English channels and French alerts on French channels.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1124     Is that correct?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1125     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.  Depending a bit on the way that a cable operator would do the wiring, it would be possible to send the English message for display on English‑language channels and the French text on the French‑language channels.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1126     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  That decision would be made by the distributor, by the BDU?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1127     MR. TEMPLE:  It's subject to how they're able to do the ‑‑ do the wiring and connection.  There are a number of different options they have available to them, depending on how they process signals, but if they're doing a crawl, then they would be able to do the wiring so that they could select English onto English channels and French onto French.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1128     I guess they could also do it if ‑‑ I better check before I tell you something incorrect.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1129     Yes, and if they do a ‑‑ what we call an intrusive or a ‑‑ go to a full screen, they would also be able to set it up so that English would appear on English channels and French on French channels.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1130     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Now, let's go further, if we are talking about an area where there's a significant population, minority population in either French or English, would we be able to see the text in both languages?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1131     MR. TEMPLE:  If the service ‑‑ if the authority who is issuing the alert issues the alert in both languages we will send the alert in both languages.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1132     We don't propose to do translation, because that raises a bunch of issues related to liability, but it doesn't matter who the authority is or where they are in Canada, if they send us the alert in English and French, we'll send the alert out in both languages.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1133     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  If you send it out, however ‑‑ just forgive me if I want to make sure I thoroughly understand ‑‑ in both languages, but at the head end if you said previously that the BDU would then attach the English version to the English and the French version to the French, is it possible that someone watching ‑‑ let's say a francophone watching an English‑language channel would also be able to read the text in French?  Is it possible that they would read both languages at once?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1134     MR. TEMPLE:  If the authority wanted to send English and French as one message, that would be possible.  In other words, if they're sending us two messages then we'll route them by language, but if they sent us one message with both languages as ‑‑ within the one message, then you would see both languages.  It might make for a long message, so there are other considerations there, but it's possible.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1135     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  What about other languages?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1136     MR. TEMPLE:  That gets a little more complicated.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1137     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Do you have any suggested solutions?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1138     MR. TEMPLE:  Well, it depends, as we get into ‑‑ it depends in a sense on the language itself.  Once you start getting away from standard characters it gets a little more complex, so if you're ... if you're not following the standard ... you know, if you're get into Mandarin or something, then that may be a more complex challenge.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1139     We have been asked this a number of times by different public authorities.  One of the suggestions that have been made is that within the text of the message that is issued there's a location reference for other language groups to get the information on the warning, so it might appear in English, but there would be a reference as to where you might get the message in Punjabi or Mandarin or things of that nature, but again it gets ‑‑ it is a awkward ‑‑ it is an awkward situation, because if you start making the message too long, you have English and then another language, it just makes the message too long.  People are worried about it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1140     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Bottom line, what would be your comment if the Commission were to give you a COL to oblige the display of alerts in both official languages?  I don't mean at once; I mean as you first described, that on an English channel we would see an English and on a French channel, a French.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1141     Would you have any comment on that?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1142     MR. TEMPLE:  No problem at all.  That's our plan.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1143     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Again, you mention translation and it is our understanding that the wording in the messages will be standardized so that translation isn't necessary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1144     But could you elaborate a little bit on the fact that ‑‑ is there any way, however, would it be useful to change to have non‑standardized language, to allow for customized alert messages?  Is there any way that, for example, if one of the key features here is the localization of the message from a technical point of view, but would it be possible to add specific detail regarding that particular area?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1145     Explain a little bit more what you mean by standardized wording and how that wording could be customized to alert people in particular areas to particular problems.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1146     MR. TEMPLE:  Well, there's two elements to the message.  One is the text and that is fully customizable.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1147     The public authority enters in whatever message they want, so there is no ‑‑ they can just type in whatever the message is in as much detail as they wish.  So that is fully customizable.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1148     On the audio end of things, as I think a first generation, we proposed a standard audio message that would alert people to the fact that there is a warning or emergency in their area, so that ‑‑ for the audio only, that is where we get into a standardized message.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1149     I think over time we're hoping that that would change so that we could actually download a specific audio message as well, but we're reluctant to promise that, because I think the first generation we know we can do and that will be a standard audio message, but future generations would provide, I think, for a customizable audio message.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1150     But I just don't with want to promise things that we can't deliver right off the bat.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1151     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  We are going to get to what is one of the most important parts of this, is the consistency of languages, the reliability, the authorized use of the system and so on.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1152     Just before we get there, though, our assumption was that the audio description of the emergency could be used as well by radio stations; is that correct?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1153     MR. TEMPLE:  We undertook to ‑‑ in our application to send whatever alerting information we received.  We would also send that to local radio and television broadcasters in the community being impacted by the warning.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1154     We are prepared to work with the industry in terms of providing that in a way that may allow them to automatically insert it, but at a minimum, we would send it to them just so that they are aware of it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1155     I think what we were trying to show is that we are not completing with local broadcasters.  We are not trying to get something that they don't have so that, you know, we are first out with the news on it.  That is not what this is about at all.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1156     So at a minimum we would send the information to local broadcasters and if there is a way we can do in a way that would permit them to automatically insert the information we would do that as well.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1157     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Just so I understand, what would be sent to the radio station is the same language, the text exactly, audio message exactly as prepared by and sent to you to the ACA service sent back to the head end, but the message as created by the authorized authority.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1158     MR. TEMPLE:  Right, we would just be sending them the exact message we are receiving from the public authority.  And, bear in mind, I want to ensure that if the public authority doesn't send us an audio message, we are not ‑‑ we are reluctant to create an audio message, because again, it creates liability issues.  If there is a mispronunciation of a name place or a mistranslation or anything like that, any changing of the message creates liability issues, so if the authority sends us an audio message that is something we can make available on the 1‑800 or on the websites, we can send it to local broadcasters, but if they don't send us an audio message, we can't create one.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1159     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I understand.  And we'll come to questions of liability obviously through the legal questioning.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1160     I do note in this morning's presentation you do say:

"We offer an end‑to‑end service; taking responsibility for the message from the time it leaves the authorized emergency alert provider."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1161     What do you mean by "responsibility" there?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1162     MR. TEMPLE:  Well, it is our responsibility to take that message once it has been approved and authenticated by the issuing authority, and to take responsibility to map that and send it by ‑‑ through our system and deliver it to the appropriate cable head ends and satellite subscribers in the area affected.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1163     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.  Back to the radio and the generic audio message.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1164     So the text received to ‑‑ as you say on your application on page 8, "The alert is

LISTNUM 1 \l 1165     sent simultaneously to participating local radio and television news rooms so local media can provide follow‑up and further information as the event occurs."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1166     What do you mean by "participating"?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1167     MR. TEMPLE:  Well, I think we would set up a process, most likely through the CAB, so that we would have contact numbers and names for radio stations and television stations throughout the country.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1168     I mean there has to be some kind of registration process or something just so that we can identify, if it is in Lloydminster, this is where ‑‑ you know, these are the people that we should be contacting and here is how they want to be contacted.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1169     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:

LISTNUM 1 \l 1170     Considering this is presented as a service to the public and that it is in the public interest for the Commission to agree to your proposal and all that comes with it, I would assume that reaching the maximum number of Canadians is important in this concept and obviously I asked you previously about different languages, Canadians across this country who may speak different languages as their mother tongue, aboriginal Canadians.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1171     Do you see any aspect of the piece of the puzzle wherein the local radio and television newsroom would pursue ‑‑ receive the text and then work with it in terms of their local alert?  Do you see any advantage there that we could look at?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1172     MR. TEMPLE:  Oh, I think if a public authority issues the warning in multiple language we are happy to make that available ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1173     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Sorry, Mr. Temple, that wasn't my point.  The point, let's assume that the alert is issued ‑‑ the public authority issues the alert in English, for the sake of argument.  That same alert is sent to participating local radio and television newsrooms, correct?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1174     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1175     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And you say that they will follow up as they would, as a local community station.  And as I understand it the CAB has guidelines in terms of alerts as well for local private radio.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1176     Therefore we could assume that the local radio stations would be able to adapt the message in different languages, could we not?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1177     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes, that would be their choice.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1178     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Would it be possible for the commission to address, in looking at this application, a requirement that the participating local radio and television stations include both ethnic and native radio stations?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1179     MR. TEMPLE:  Just to ensure I would the question, you're asking us whether it would be appropriate to impose a requirement on radio stations?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1180     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  No, I'm not.  I did not say impose a requirement.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1181     MR. TEMPLE:  Oh.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1182     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I actually asked what is your comment on the possibility that the Commission could indicate its interest that the participating, to use your words, local radio and television newsrooms include ethnic and native radio stations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1183     MR. TEMPLE:  Oh, include.  Oh, certainly.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1184     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Let's go on, then, to talk about the theme of the coordination with the broadcasting industry.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1185     It is an area, as you know, where there is a lot ‑‑ there is concern and certainly you have tabled your points again today that you have undertaken a considerable amount of consultation.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1186     But the focus of the questions are really to focus on specifics and practical, tell us how it is going to work in three instances:  If the Commission approves another alert service in this process; and/or if CANALERT and when CANALERT goes ahead; and the fact of the matter that currently broadcasters insert alert messages on their local stations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1187     Now, one of the questions that has come up if in the latter case television broadcasters add your alerts or an edited version to their off‑air signals, would there be situations where cable subscribers would see two alerts perhaps superimposed on each other or even offering different messages?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1188     What coordination procedures would you suggest are necessary to forestall such possibilities?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1189     MR. TEMPLE:  In the situation where a local TV broadcaster is inserting an alert, if they are inserting the same alert from the same authority that we are, which is presumably the case, then there wouldn't be different messages.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1190     So if Mississauga were to issue an evacuation notice, we would air Mississauga's message verbatim and presumably a Toronto TV station would be doing the same, so you would be seeing the same message.  Unless they changed the message some way for some reason I don't think the consumer would be seeing different messages.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1191     As to whether they would be seeing multiple messages, that is a possibility.  We are certainly prepared to co‑ordinate with local broadcasters to try and minimize the disruption with duplicate ‑‑ you know, duplicative messages appearing on the TV screen.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1192     If they are able to take a feed from us and automatically insert it, then we may be able to eliminate that possibility altogether, but our proposal doesn't require them do that.  It is basically up to them what they want to do and when they want to do it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1193     But we are certainly open to working with over‑the‑air television broadcasters through the CAB or individually to make sure that that kind of duplication is minimized.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1194     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Have you actually discussed possible procedures to date with them ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1195     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1196     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  ‑‑ on this specific problem?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1197     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes, we have met with CAB staff on several occasions over the last number of years to discuss this issue.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1198     We even sent a proposal in terms of crawl location, so that we wouldn't be ‑‑ if we had a crawl at a certain location on the TV screen that CAB members may want to identify a separate location, just to make sure that crawls are not bumping into each other, that type of thing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1199     So we've discussed it on several occasions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1200     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Now, what about CBC, have you discussed this matter with them?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1201     MR. TEMPLE:  Same thing, the same issues and on several occasions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1202     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And have you discussed or thought through the coordination procedures should the Commission approve the CBC proposal brought forward in this process?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1203     MR. TEMPLE:  The CBC proposal in terms of providing warnings to their radio stations is not ‑‑ I think we are quite complimentary with that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1204     The CBC proposal in terms of providing service to BDUs, I think, is problematic.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1205     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Well, we'll get to that.  My focus is the coordination with what if, as I said, the three possibilities, the current alerting that broadcasters do, the CBC proposal goes forward and CANALERT goes forward.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1206     Obviously the proposal and considerable amount of time in your application deals with the importance of clarity, reliability, consistency, and the most Canadians as possible getting the message.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1207     MR. TEMPLE:  Um‑hum.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1208     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And a message.  And yet there is a possibility before us of several messages going forward.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1209     In your reply you say ‑‑ I'm not sure I totally understood.  You said at page 17 of your reply in paragraph 73:

"It must be emphasized that the ability of broadcasters to warn the Canadian public in advance of imminent threats to life or property is limited."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1210     Could you expand on that?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1211     MR. TEMPLE:  Well, there are several.  I mean, over‑the‑air television broadcasters face several problems.  One is their signal covers typically a large area and is re‑broadcast, and so for local emergencies they're faced with a decision as to whether to put a message on and inform as much as half a province for what might be a local emergency.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1212     I think you'll find that sentiment when you hear from some of the appearing intervenors later in the proceeding.  So that's an issue that broadcasters have to face.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1213     The second issue is just the ability to get a message on quickly.  There is no system for them to do that.  I mean, if a public authority decided to issue a message right now, I don't think there's any system in place for them to even necessarily know who to call, how to get the message to them, how to display it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1214     So while some broadcasters do display warnings, I think that it's not as prevalent as people might think because of those issues.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1215     On the other hand, our system will take that message and put it on the screen within a minute.  And when you are dealing with emergencies, time is of the essence.  You typically don't have a lot of time to figure out who the right person is or whether they are able to get a message on the TV screen.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1216     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Well, obviously one of the points we're looking at is considering, I'm sure the broadcasters will speak to this, and they have in their interventions, that they do play across this country an important role in alerting a community to an emergency, and the concern here is what does the ACA service add?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1217     MR. TEMPLE:  Well, I think broadcasters play an excellent role in following up once an emergency situation has occurred.  I think typically ‑‑ I'll take the example of a tornado.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1218     Environment Canada issues a tornado warning.  There may be fifteen minutes of advance notice.  The tornado may strike a community.  In terms of warning the community in those fifteen minutes before the event, our system will deliver that message within the minute.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1219     Once the event has occurred and people are trying to find out how to get fresh water or where to go for relief or how to find missing relatives and things of that nature, no one covers that better than the local broadcaster and that's not what we're proposing to do anyways.  So I think we're quite complementary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1220     I guess the second point I'd like to make is no system is going to be perfect and people may get two messages.  The alternative is they get no message, and that's the greater harm.  So for our point of view, if a local broadcaster puts a message on, that's wonderful.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1221     There are people without cable and satellite service and we're not going to reach them, and if they are able to reach those people that is wonderful.  If we have to put the message on or another system puts the message on and they see it twice, that is a small price to pay to protect people.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1222     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Mr. Temple.  Just to conclude, I'm sure we'll come back to this point in interventions, but assuming then that ACA service goes forward, and assuming, as you do, that local broadcasters will continue to alert the public and play a strong role in not only alert, but in follow‑up and support to the community and to the region, have you, in fact, sat down with individual broadcasters, including the CBC, and worked out specific procedures to coordinate ‑‑ assuming you are going forward and assuming they continue with their duties and responsibilities to the communities ‑‑ have you worked out specific coordination procedures to this date?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1223     MR. TEMPLE:  Not specific procedures.  I suspect that is a little premature until we know whether we have a license and what the conditions are, but I think we all feel that we are ‑‑ the groups are working together in good faith.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1224     This will all get sorted out and the particulars of the details of where exactly one person's crawl is and where the other person's crawl is and those types of issues just get ‑‑ will just get sorted out.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1225     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1226     MR. MORRISSETTE:  If I could just add, it's our commitment to consult with all broadcasters, television broadcasters with respect to the orderly launch and evolution of this service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1227     Our initial commitment obviously is to provide the information, the message from the authorized authorities in English and French.  Yes, questions such as additional languages down the road will be the subject of consultation with the authorized authorities as well as the various broadcasters and distributors in terms of how we do that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1228     But the other point too on local broadcasters and the messaging that they provide, local distributors carry hundreds of channels beyond the local broadcast signals which viewers are watching to a large, significant extent.  And so obviously that is a gap that is not covered by local broadcasters that we would be covering.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1229     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.  I am going to go to the other end, from the broadcasting to the beginning of the message and to the authorized "user" of the system and the definition thereof.  Secondly, to the definition of emergency.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1230     Now, in reading your material and obviously the material related to this whole matter of emergency alert, and thank you for such an extensive array of material.  We did read it all.  One of the concerns which you addressed, which others have addressed, is the definition of authorized user.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1231     In looking at the material, we could have a concern that the number of authorized users could be a very extensive list.  So what I'm trying to get at is a sense of your understanding of who these authorized government agencies or authorized users, because they could be not government agencies, who they are and how you intend to treat this matter going forward.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1232     You said you received the message and you send it back, if I understand, to confirm that, in fact, it came from an authorized user.  And forgive my layman's approach to the technology, but inevitably you are going to verify that it came from somebody authorized to send and that it contains a message according to protocol, correct?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1233     MR. MORRISSETTE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1234     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes, my understanding is layman's too so we're ‑‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1235     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I should say mine's a layperson's actually.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1236     MR. TEMPLE:  To address the first question or the first element as to who an authorized user is, I guess there is the principle and then there's the practical application.  So as a principle we said well, if an authority has the right to declare a state of emergency, it makes sense that they would have access to an emergency alerting process so that is the first kind of principle.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1237     So most provincial statutes grant municipalities the right to declare a local state of emergency and therefore we think they should have right of access to issue an emergency warning.  It doesn't mean that they have to declare a state of emergency to issue a warning.  The purpose of the warning is hopefully to avert the emergency, but that is the first principal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1238     And the second principle is that there are certain departments or government agencies, Environment Canada being the prime example, who don't necessarily have the right to declare a state of emergency, but have a clear legislative mandate to warn the public of extreme weather.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1239     So if there are other government agencies who have similar legislative obligations to warn the public, they should have access.  So those are the principles that we took.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1240     In practic what does that mean?  I think you will find in ‑‑ certainly we found in our discussions with provinces and through our own advisory board that most of the provinces intend to supervise access within their respective jurisdictions as to who will have access.  I think you will find that the provinces will want to ensure that people within ‑‑ or potential users within their province are properly trained, that there are certain security measures in place in terms of who they want to have access.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1241     A good example is what we're doing now with New Brunswick.  We put in place a system with New Brunswick last fall where we are now putting provincial alerts onto the weather network in MeteoMedia and we sat down with them.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1242     As part of this pilot project we have people, security measures in place so that only authorized users and only from an authorized terminal can access the system.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1243     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Authorized in that sense, in this example of New Brunswick, by the provincial authority?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1244     MR. TEMPLE:  Exactly.  And so it may differ a little bit in Quebec or Ontario may want to have a different process and BC something different again, but I think you'll a find that in practice or in application each of the provinces will want to coordinate within their specific jurisdictions, and we're quite happy to work with them on that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1245     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So as I understand the tone of your deficiency response as well where you discussed this, you are looking to all that matter of authorized user and definition of emergency to be solved, in effect, by the authorities in question.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1246     Can I ask you, though, if we wanted a little bit more clarity and definition in this area, I have in front of me the guidelines for CANALERT, and you did say this morning that:

"Nous nous engageons à utiliser des standards à être développés par CANALERT et considérons que notre proposition est pleinement compatible avec cette dernière."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1247     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  There is in the CANALERT guidelines at section 9 what comes close to a definition of a guideline which, again, would be the encadrement, I would assume, of your position.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1248     Do you have any comment on the possibility of these definitions being the basis of ‑‑ that we could go forward on?  I'm looking at Section 9.2, which refers ‑‑ defines the term "Public authority" and goes on to describe who would be, could be, the authorized users?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1249     MR. TEMPLE:  I don't have that document in front of me, but if I can get a copy I'll...

LISTNUM 1 \l 1250     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  It's available on the Industry Canada website and obviously would have been part of your consultations and discussions with Industry Canada and presentations made by them over the last few months, I imagine.  So if you wanted to have a look at that, you could get back to us on that point.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1251     MR. TEMPLE:  Certainly.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1252     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  As well, the same document takes us into the definition of emergency and what would constitute an emergency.  In other words, when you get a message and you are looking at it, you have got it from the authorized user, as you have been studying this and working on this project for sometime, what is your thought on the definition of emergency?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1253     In fact, it is important because you propose change to your COL, which includes a definition of emergency in the sense of your ability to carry such a proposal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1254     And what I am talking about here is the proposal that would inform the public with unexpected threats to life or property of the public at large.  To inform the public of imminent or unexpected threats to the life or property of the public at large.  Again, the CANALERT guidelines discuss what constitutes an emergency and in certain sections of this they refer only to threats to life, not to property.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1255     I know in the CAV guidelines the threat is to life and property, but what if we were to say that, for example, since we have to address this in terms of your COL proposal, that the imminent threat would be just to life, as indicated in the guidelines of CANALERT.  Would you have any comment on that?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1256     MR. TEMPLE:  We have no problem with that.  I mean we put forward a proposal based on feedback we had received, based on a lot of the legislation and practices in place in the United States where state jurisdictions issue guidelines, but I think everyone is kind of on the same page, so to speak.  So if it is better to emphasize or to narrow the definition, we have no problem with that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1257     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So, again, when you are talking about "nous engageons" ‑‑ I'm translating the standards developed by CANALERT ‑‑ I'm proposing that those standards would resemble the guidelines that I have in front of me here, both in terms of authorized user and definition of emergency, which is at length to describe severe high and low level emergencies, somewhat similar to the way the CAV guidelines are, would you agree that we could use the CANALERT guidelines as a guide for the definition of your service?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1258     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes, I mean I will check the references you've made.  I am sorry, I don't have the document with me, but I will confirm that.  But basically we have been an active participant with CANALERT and with Industry Canada long before CANALERT was established and we intend to remain a participant.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1259     We have had input into most of their material and we are quite comfortable with it so I don't think there is a concern there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1260     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:

LISTNUM 1 \l 1261     Continuing on the system usage, you have also referenced the matter of responsibility this morning and we have talked about it in terms ‑‑ we have not talked about it in terms of liability.  We will get there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1262     But in terms of safeguards in the use of the system, you do reference in your deficiency response at the answer to question 10C that you will require all authorized users, and now we have some sense of who they might be, to enter into a formal agreement.  All authorized users, who may be a fairly extensive list, to enter into a formal agreement that will document the roles and responsibilities of the parties prior to allowing them access to the ACA service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1263     Now, could you discuss with us this proposed formal agreement and outline the roles and responsibilities of ACA users as you see them?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1264     MR. TEMPLE:  Certainly.  The agreement is modeled, or the concept is modeled along the lines of an agreement we have in place with Environment Canada and it simply spells out the responsibilities of each of the parties so that there is no misunderstanding.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1265     Confirmation that the authority takes responsibility for the content of the message and for its delivery to us, issues like security.  I suspect that the agreement again will likely be customized by province.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1266     We are certainly hoping that it would be much easier and more practical to do an agreement with the province that covers its municipality than actually going out and doing an agreement with each municipality, but if the province wants us to deal individually with each municipality, we will do that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1267     But again using the example of New Brunswick, we just entered into a simple letter agreement to confirm that they took responsibility for the content.  We have to be protected on that.  If they send a message out and it's the wrong information or someone decides they want to sue, that we are held harmless because of the content.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1268     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  What ‑‑ do you have either this agreement, is it available or do you have a template of such an agreement that you could share with the Commission?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1269     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes, we can provide the Commission with the agreement.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1270     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  In that agreement, or perhaps you could explain to us what consequences you would impose for misuse of the system, you Pelmorex, for misuse or improper use of the ACA service.  What consequences would you impose?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1271     MR. TEMPLE:  I don't know if there is a specific consequence in the agreement.  As part of our application, we have undertaken to establish a review process, so that if there is misuse, or perceived misuse, there is a complaint process.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1272     Whether it be the public or a broadcaster or a BDU who feels that the system is being misused, we would have a complaint process in place that would bring the parties together.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1273     We hadn't got to the part about sanctions or punitive action.  I don't think that would be necessary.  I think that just bringing the parties together to talk about a concern would be sufficient.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1274     I think that everyone is trying to do the same thing, which is to protect the public.  I think our view is that any problems can just be worked out among the parties.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1275     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I guess that is why, among other things, it is important to see the formal agreement, because at some stage Pelmorex is operating the ACA service, and we would want to know what is in place for you to exercise some control over the use of that ACA service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1276     You do say that not the content, the text is created by the authorized user, but you are dealing with that authorized user and it is going through your system.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1277     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes, and there is no provision in it for us to refuse a warning.  Even if someone were, in anyone's view, misusing the system, we are not cutting them off.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1278     It is not our position to judge that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1279     After a warning goes out, perhaps in hindsight, people would say, "That shouldn't have been issued," or whatever the case may be, but we are not proposing to prevent authorized users from having access.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1280     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Could you comment on the Commission requiring you to have formal agreements which would stipulate safeguards and guidelines for the users of the system?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1281     Would you comment on the Commission having a requirement that you have such an agreement, which, again, would outline the safeguards and guidelines for use?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1282     MR. TEMPLE:  That would be fine.  It would probably make our lives easier.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1283     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  We will come back, then, to CANALERT.  You did say that you would ‑‑ "nous engagons" ‑‑ to use the standards of CANALERT.  Would you accept as a condition of licence the obligation to coordinate with whatever framework might be developed in the context of Industry Canada's CANALERT initiative?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1284     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1285     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  We are discussing this morning, and throughout the next day and a half, a service for all Canadians, and you did raise in your comments this morning, and in your proposal, your revised approach for visually impaired Canadians, and I believe that this approach is fundamentally related to the audio message and an alert to visually impaired Canadians to go to a 1‑800 number.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1286     Is that correct?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1287     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.  Where the issuing authority has released an audio version of the alert, then we would make that available on the 1‑800 number.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1288     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Considering your comments that you are not in charge of the content of the message, both visual and audio, what assurances can you give us that, in fact, the authorized users will include instructions for visually impaired Canadians; not only "Here is your 1‑800 number," but that the 1‑800 number will provide you with further details on the emergency, and also describe, to some extent, the importance of going to that 1‑800 number?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1289     Since you don't control the content, what assurances do you have that an authorized user would actually do this?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1290     MR. TEMPLE:  There is no guarantee that they will provide an audio message.  I think that we are certainly prepared to encourage them to do that, and I think that most authorized users want to be able to provide an audio message.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1291     Again, there may be situations, perhaps in smaller municipalities, where that may be difficult, but I think that over time, really, with technology, it will be a fairly simple process to send an audio file to us, along with a text message, and we will put it right into the 1‑800 system.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1292     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  It is really a sense of, yes, you can do it technically, but my question is more that you, as a service ‑‑ since you are proposing that you have reached out to the visually impaired community and solved the problem, can you assure us that in fact the content of that message will be appropriate?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1293     Do you have any sense of a way that one could be assured of this?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1294     I grant you that it is technically feasible, but can we be assured of this?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1295     MR. TEMPLE:  You have to bear in mind that while there is an obligation on us, which we are prepared to undertake, to disseminate, there is no obligation on the authority.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1296     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  That's my point.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1297     MR. TEMPLE:  Conceptually, an authority may not even want to participate.  They may not even want to issue a text message.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1298     I can't go out and tell Municipality X that they have to send me messages, and they have to do it this way, and they have to do it that way.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1299     So I can't guarantee that.  That is just a practicality.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1300     I suspect, however, that in most cases they would want to send the message, and if we make the means available to them, then, in practice, they will.  But I can't make a municipality or an authorized user do anything they don't want to do.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1301     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.  I have your answer on that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1302     Regarding the hearing impaired, in your reply at page 18, paragraph 75, you indicate that you are working with the CAD on the concerns about closed captioning.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1303     Have you an update for us on that?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1304     MR. PERREAULT:  Commissioner Pennefather, the RQST, le Regoupement québecois pour le sous‑titrage, has been extremely active, and we have been very involved with Mr. Richard McNichol in the ACA project.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1305     They didn't intervene this time around because they saw no change from our past proposal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1306     In the past proposal, what we did with the RQST was, we organized six focus groups across Quebec to present our project and gather feedback from their constituents, and the feedback we got from them was actually what you saw on the screen earlier, whereby the crawl is in the middle of the screen, not to interfere with closed captioning at the bottom.  The colours, the font, the typeset ‑‑ everything was verified in these focus groups, and they were satisfied.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1307     With our reply to interventions, we filed a letter with the Commission coming from the RQST, saying that they are still satisfied with this proposal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1308     So we heavily consulted with them.  We invested time and money in creating the focus groups for the RQST, and I think that we had very good feedback from their constituents.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1309     CONSEILLÈRE PENNEFATHER:  Merci.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1310     Je pense qu'on peut prendre notre break maintenant, monsieur le Président?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1311     LE PRÉSIDENT:  Nous prendron une interruption de dix miunutes.  Nous reprendrons à 11 h 00.

‑‑‑ Suspension à 1050 / Upon recessing at 1050

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1100 / Reprise à 1100

LISTNUM 1 \l 1312     THE CHAIRPERSON:  We will resume the review of the application by Pelmorex with Ms Pennefather.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1313     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1314     Welcome back.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1315     Are we all alert?

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 1 \l 1316     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I waited two hours.  I had to do something with it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1317     Again, thank you for Appendix F, which, as you say, describes in layperson terms how it will work.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1318     We will use Sections F and G now for some technical questions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1319     Again, as I said before, things tend to go back and forth in the various areas.  We may repeat ourselves, but that helps in terms of clarity.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1320     I am going to address the standby operations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1321     In your application you noted that the standby operations centre will only be staffed during daytime hours.  If the main operations centre goes down during non‑daytime hours when the standby site is unattended, can you confirm that the standby site can handle all of the network requirements when it is unattended?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1322     And how long would it take to staff the standby site in the event of a failure of the main operations centre?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1323     MR. TEMPLE:  The standby centre is, I guess, what you would call a hot standby.  I don't know if that is the right phrase, but it would be always fully operational.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1324     In off hours staff would be, obviously, on call ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1325     I should check, first, to find out how long it would take to get people back into the centre.  If you could give me a moment, I will make sure that I am giving the right information.

‑‑‑ Pause / Pause

LISTNUM 1 \l 1326     MR. TEMPLE:  The two centres are fully automated and operational at all times, so if one centre failed, the other centre would take over.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1327     In terms of getting staff on‑site, they tell me that that should happen within an hour of them being called.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1328     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  All right.  On page 5 of Appendix F, when you say that the standby centre will be staffed to handle the demand of launching hundreds of individual ‑‑ et cetera ‑‑ the standby centre will be staffed, meaning if the other centre goes down?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1329     MR. TEMPLE:  No, the plan is to have the standby centre staffed during ‑‑ I think it is 16 hours, but I will check that to make sure I haven't misled you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1330     It will always be staffed during daytime hours, or the 16 hours, to provide service to authorized users and BDUs, because during the actual implementation there will be an awful lot of work.  We are talking about the coordination, installation and testing of equipment in hundreds of sites across Canada, so there will be an awful lot of work to do.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1331     So those people will be quite busy in terms of working on the actual roll‑out of the service, quite apart from the ongoing monitoring and supervision of the system.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1332     People will be there 16 hours a day at the standby site.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1333     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So how long to staff is a mis‑question, then.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1334     The standby centre, is it already staffed on a permanent basis, or is it empty and then ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1335     Forgive my layperson's language.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1336     MR. MORRISSETTE:  If I could add, we operate two broadcast centres ‑‑ or media centres as we now call them ‑‑ one in Oakville, Ontario, which is our main one, and one in Montreal.  Both centres operate 24/7.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1337     The actual control activities for receiving and distributing alerts ‑‑ both centres will have a 24/7 capability.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1338     The Montreal centre, obviously, handles our French alerting requirements, as well as English.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1339     The actual messaging part is 24/7 redundant.  The operations centre is involved in managing the roll‑out, the launch, liaison, testing, and the many, many activities that go on over and above just the messaging capability.  One is around the clock, and the other is the 16 hours per day process, but messaging is fully redundant 24/7 in two locations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1340     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And the standby is the 16‑hour operation?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1341     MR. MORRISSETTE:  That's correct.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1342     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.  That was not clear.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1343     Moving on, you stated that you will employ satellite signal return monitoring to verify that every alert is correctly transmitted.  However, you went on to note that it will not be possible to monitor every cable head end to check that every alert is properly received and identified.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1344     Have you given any thought to equipping at least the major head ends with return links that would enable you to verify that each alert was properly received and identified?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1345     MR. BOULANGER:  Yes, we have done so.  The design of our system is that we can retrieve from the major sites the acknowledgment of reception there.  It is not a technical issue, it is more a financial question, if we were to do that for all of the sites.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1346     We can recover the acknowledgment and re‑transmit if it has not been received at the site.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1347     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So it is possible to get that verification back, and the return links ‑‑ the major head ends, certainly, you would be able to verify.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1348     MR. BOULANGER:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1349     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  There was Appendix F, and then there is Appendix G.  This is a little different.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1350     Again, it was written clearly, but there are those wonderful schematics, which I will not go into, but which are a lot of fun to look at.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1351     Let's focus a bit and turn to Appendix G, page 69.  I want to talk about the implementation of the ACA system on ExpressVu.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1352     You state here that further discussions are required to finalize the design and select the best manner in which to implement it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1353     Can you briefly outline what is involved in this implementation?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1354     MR. BOULANGER:  In the case of the digital solution, mainly in a case like ExpressVu, the solution involves the development of software, which will be downloaded to the set‑top box, and will be able to receive the alert and display in the areas that are affected.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1355     There are multiple ways of doing that.  In a sense, the software can be made to operate in different ways.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1356     It is important that there be discussion with the operator, in this case ExpressVu, or even initially we talked about OpenTV, because it would be adding functionality to their basic software, which is not required in their case, in such a way just to adopt the less impacting way of doing the thing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1357     That means it could be that we format one way versus another way, or we use non‑volatile memory instead of the hard disk, and stuff like that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1358     It is definitely not an issue to implement an ACA target ‑‑ ACA in both languages ‑‑ on a platform like ExpressVu at this time.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1359     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  On the same page, just to carry on that point, you mention that for the non‑Open TV set‑top boxes used by ExpressVu, it would not be practical to add the ACA functionality to the existing EPG applications.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1360     I think that is what you just addressed.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1361     How long do you think it will be before all of these boxes are replaced by Open TV units?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1362     MR. BOULANGER:  I believe it would be more ExpressVu that could answer that question, to be honest.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1363     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Have you discussed this timing point with them?  Have you any sense of it?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1364     MR. BOULANGER:  We have discussed the notion of doing it or not, and their premise was that by the time we get there, and the quantity of bucks remaining, it is probably not worthwhile to do it on the non‑Open TV box.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1365     Again, it is not technical, it is more an operational impact on them, more than anything else.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1366     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  In the case of Star Choice, on the same page you mention that most of their set‑top boxes do not have Open TV at this time either.  However, you were of the view that it would be possible to add ACA functionality to them.  But, as you say, some software development would be necessary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1367     Again, could you be clear on what software development is necessary?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1368     MR. BOULANGER:  In the case of Star Choice, because they don't have a platform, really, like Open TV, which allows you to download additional software, the only way of doing it is to modify the basic software, which Star Choice is doing from time to time, but it is something that is more ‑‑ you have to pay more attention when you touch that software.  It has the potential to have more arrays and that means that you have to pay attention and do a lot more testing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1369     But, again, technically, it is feasible.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1370     In the case of Star Choice, they are doing this kind of stuff themselves.  They have modified the software, provided by Motorola, and adapted it to their system.  That is the only solution they have so far on the non‑Open TV box.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1371     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  In the latter case we are closer to a solution, then, on the non‑Open TV set‑top box.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1372     MR. BOULANGER:  It is not that it is closer to a solution, the solution is simpler to implement.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1373     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  All right.  The point being that this would affect the timing of ‑‑ the availability of the service to satellite subscribers.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1374     MR. BOULANGER:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1375     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Where can we get a sense of how that is moving along?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1376     MR. BOULANGER:  The timing is influenced ‑‑ if we say that we don't modify the basic software, the timing is influenced by the supplier.  We spoke to Scientific Atlanta, we spoke to Motorola, Open TV and other guys, and they were very candid in saying that there is no real issue to put it there, but until they have a bit of pressure, either from their main clients or from some government authority, they will not put energy in putting it there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1377     We discussed that both with Motorola and Scientific Atlanta.  Implementing a national alert service, according to them, will add more incentive, and they should implement that, but they didn't provide dates.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1378     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Another question regarding DTH is addressed on page 76 of Appendix G, and it is the localization information section.  In other places it is called targeting.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1379     This is a very important piece of your proposal.

"It takes DTH companies some time, even hours, to update all of their subscriber accounts, because, for obvious financial reasons, they use relatively narrow band data channels.  It will be necessary to target alerts to particular provinces, regions, cities, municipalities, and perhaps even to citizens living within, say, a kilometre of a railway track or a nuclear power station."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1380     At page 76 you mention several means by which this problem could be addressed, but then "the necessary capabilities are not yet all in place."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1381     Could you tell us what targeting options are available, for example, in targeting railway corridors?  And, once the system is in place, how long will it take to activate the various classes of targeted set‑top boxes?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1382     MR. BOULANGER:  I will have to answer in several answers, in a sense.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1383     The supplier has, in their development, the notion of implementing additional functionality to help targeting, but it is not there yet.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1384     The solution we are proposing ‑‑ and we are implementing on ExpressVu and other products ‑‑ is that we pre‑zone the box.  In other words, we map them across the country, and we save on what is called a non‑volatile memory the equivalent of a group of zones, or zones in a hierarchy, which means that when the alert comes in, we don't have to send it to individual boxes.  That takes a lot of time and bandwidth.  We would just use the pre‑zoning that has been done hierarchically.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1385     In the case you mentioned, if you have a corridor and it has been mapped as a zone, and the identification of that zone has been saved in the non‑volatile memory of the box, just sending the alert once to that zone should activate the message there, and timing should not be an issue.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1386     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So your answer is a pre‑zoning of the boxes ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1387     MR. BOULANGER:  That is one scenario.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1388     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And the implementation time for that?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1389     The pre‑zoning, is it based on postal codes?  Is it based on subscriber information?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1390     How does that work?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1391     MR. BOULANGER:  There are, again, multiple scenarios for doing that.  You could use postal codes, but postal codes for some areas of Canada are not feasible at all.  For example, some provinces have only two postal codes, roughly, to cover the whole province.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1392     The other way is to obtain some information from the billing and authorization system; no sensitive information, strictly the city and language.  You could use that to pre‑zone a hierarchy of zones.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1393     The other alternative is to ask the person to identify themselves.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1394     As far as the implementation, we will be launching next week with ExpressVu products for our main products.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1395     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So you are starting to work on the pre‑set ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1396     MR. BOULANGER:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1397     MR. TEMPLE:  If I could add a couple of comments; as Jean‑Pierre just mentioned, we are hoping to be able to launch interactive content on our channels on ExpressVu before the end of the month, which is, in many ways, a precursor to the ability to send warnings.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1398     We will be able now to send local weather information to viewers of ExpressVu; and, really, applying that basic framework, which will be in place, it is a relatively simple step next to send alerts, just as we do on conventional cable.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1399     So a lot of that work is already in place.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1400     In terms of the number of boxes, I think, for very good reasons, ExpressVu views those numbers as competitively confidential.  They don't want their competitors to know how many boxes, of what kind, are out in the field, and who can do what, but it is certainly our sense, in working with them, that probably the majority of their subscribers, if not more than the majority, have boxes capable of displaying ‑‑ or accommodating warnings, and that number is increasing all the time.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1401     So, certainly by the time that we would be in a position to launch service to ExpressVu, most of them would be able to be served.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1402     Finally, in terms of the zoning, or pre‑zoning, I think it is important just to point out that it gives the opportunity to almost make it more precise, because if we can establish zones ‑‑ I mean, I don't think there is any practical limit to the number of zones that we create.  So that our ability to send warnings to subscribers on satellite, on ExpressVu for example, may be actually a little more precise than on conventional cable.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1403     So I think we are ‑‑ I will call it "excited" about the possibility of being able to do that work on satellite.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1404     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1405     I want to move on to installation and launch of the ACA service and, more particularly, installation and testing and to explore some of those implementation and coordination issues that could delay or lengthen your rollout schedule.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1406     Could you outline what potential implementation problems you foresee and what specifically could be done to forestall them?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1407     For example, ACA equipment will have to be installed, interconnected and tested in cable head ends.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1408     On page 9 of Appendix G you noted that Pelmorex would supply the ACA units, but that installation and cabling would be the responsibility of the cable operator.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1409     What sort of coordination process would you establish?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1410     MR. TEMPLE:  As part of our application we propose that a launch and rollout committee would be established that would certainly involve BDUs and broadcasters, as well as public alerting authorities.  So one of the first steps would be to establish that and start working our procedures and guidelines with those interested groups.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1411     Concurrent with that, I think a separate team would ‑‑ for obviously reasons we can't just go and pre‑manufacture all these devices in the hope that the Commission approve our application.  We might end up with a rather hefty bill, only to find out we are not approved.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1412     So we can't manufacture the devices in advance of approval, but a lot of the design work can be done and so a separate group would begin working on the physical manufacturing of the units.  We put together, again in consultation with the BDUs, instructions in terms of installation, likely even more complicated than Appendix G.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1413     I think as part of our application we have included, under marketing or support, installation video so that they understand exactly how things are to be installed, how things are to be tested.  Staff would be hired at the operations centre to support BDUs with questions in terms of installation and testing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1414     So that's general.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1415     I guess in terms of what kind of problems, I mean the only problem is ‑‑ I mean, I guess there could be hundreds of problems, but we just have to be prepared to deal with them, just like you have to deal with issues that come up in the launch of any service or initiative.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1416     MR. PERREAULT:  To that extent, Commissioner Pennefather, Pelmorex has experience with this.  When we launched the network we had to install our own equipment at every cable head in the country.  So we have experience in distance helping, if you wish, the head‑end technicians in installing equipment.  We have people in‑house that understand that relationship.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1417     We are into our fourth generation of head‑end equipment, so we did that four times actually, changing this equipment.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1418     Moreover, when we went digital in 1995‑1996 we had to install and modify equipment in the 1,300 head ends, so again we are there to support the operators.  That communications procedure is in place and have staff on hand to help the cable operators and satellite operations and all affiliates into performing these technical changes on par and we never missed a deadline.  So experience is going to be very helpful in rolling out ACA.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1419     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you for that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1420     So you referenced in your reply a technical committee, and this technical committee then would also be available at the different locations?  Because as I understand, you are offering some flexibility in terms of particular network configurations, so there would be sometimes different problems with different cable head ends, different conditions to address.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1421     Have you worked through the potential coordination of all of that beyond the committee?  Are there any particular technical problems which would forestall the rollout?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1422     MR. TEMPLE:  I think just to clarify a little bit, there are two committees we propose.  One is the launch and rollout, which is a coordination of exactly that, the launch and rollout of the service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1423     Separately, a technical committee to deal with technical issues, but also the development of enhancements and new features and capabilities.  So there's actually the two groups.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1424     What we have tried to do is set up and provide for the BDU instructions or guidelines so that they can select the manner best suited to them to install the equipment and configure their head end.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1425     That's one of the reasons why we want two operation centres, because we expect that we are going to get a lot of calls and a lot of people, you know, "What's the best way" or "How do I do this?"  You can give someone instructions.  I'm probably the best example.  I never read the instructions, I just kind of take it out of the box, whatever it is, and start playing around with it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1426     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Judging from those schematics in Appendix G, that would not be wise.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 1 \l 1427     MR. MORRISSETTE:  If I can just add, our goal and commitment is to achieve a very successful rollout.  In that regard, the relationship with the BDUs is one that we envisage to be a very positive one.  We want to super serve.  We want to super support.  We will do what we have to do to provide the guidance, support to the extent required.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1428     For example, 24/7 hotlines on technical matters.  Basically hand‑holding in certain key technical problem‑solving, and so on and so forth.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1429     So the commitment there is really to super serve, so that the success of this very, very important launch rolls out successfully.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1430     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I would like to go back to the question of localization or targeting, but in terms of analog cable systems.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1431     In terms of analog cable systems with broad services areas, you indicated that viewers will rely on the location pinpointed in the emergency message to know whether it affects them directly.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1432     Would it be possible to reduce the number of alerts that subscribers would see that aren't meant for them?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1433     For example, can ACA equipment be installed within a large system at certain key distribution nodes, or at system interconnection points, rather than just the head end?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1434     MR. PERREAULT:  To that effect, Commissioner Pennefather, we already have done some experiments with two cable operators, one being Vidéotron, the other one being Rogers, for our actual weather services.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1435     Montréal is currently subdivided in five different zones for actually weather forecasting and weather alerting principles, and the GTA in Toronto is subdivided into 16 different zones.  So that kind of already exists in our current thinking and delivering weather information with larger BDUs.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1436     So with their cooperation it is possible to do so.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1437     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And not only possible, but you see the point is that the feature here is to target news where it's happening, the alert where it's happening.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1438     Turning to HD and the deficiency reply of February 9 at page 5, you note that total costs ‑‑ and I'm selecting from the paragraph:

"... do not, however, include ongoing investments beyond the launch period to accommodate HDTV and other technological changes."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1439     When do you envisage upgrading your ACA technology to handle HDTV and would the upgrade to HDTV have an impact on the subscriber rate?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1440     So the first part of the question is, one of the technology changes going forward would clearly be the handling of HD and how do you envisage that upgrade?  How would it be done?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1441     MR. BOULANGER:  HDTV per se exists only in the digital world.  That means by that time you have to have a set‑top box, which means the solution is similar to the digital approach.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1442     For the DTH or that kind of stuff, the ACA box as is known today will not be required for HDTV because it will be a software approach and not a hardware approach.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1443     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And on the digital cable side, the HD, will that ‑‑ say we go forward today, what ‑‑ and there is supposed to be, as you say, financially as well ongoing investments beyond launch.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1444     Will one of these investments not include the upgrading of the technology to include HD?  Will have an effect, in other words, on the ACA service on digital cable systems?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1445     MR. BOULANGER:  If I do understand correctly your question, the effect ‑‑ because the solution is a software we don't need to upgrade the physical boxes, but we need development to develop the software or adapt it.  Because the HDTV will be using the digital set‑top box, as is the case for DTH or other digital approach.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1446     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So it would be another point.  In addition to the targeting it would be another aspect of the set‑top box to prepare the software for the HD?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1447     MR. BOULANGER:  But the HD is just a higher bit rate and having a higher resolution.  The notion of receiving the alert, finding the area will be exactly the same.  That is not typical to HDTV.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1448     MR. MORRISSETTE:  If I can just add, the high definition capabilities is an example of a new generation that we will have to deal with.  There will be other enhancements over time as technology continues to evolve, and our commitment and our plan is a long‑term one.  It is not a static "Here is a box, here is a piece of software and there it is forever."

LISTNUM 1 \l 1449     On the contrary, it is a moving target, moving towards continuous progress and enhancement and all of this is our commitment to make those investments within the context of the business plan that we filed.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1450     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I think as we move into the financial issues, if you would keep that in mind as we differentiate between investments by Pelmorex and investments by the cable ‑‑ or the BDUs shall I say, because my understanding certainly at the get‑go was the ACA unit was provided by Pelmorex but the installation costs and maintenance costs and ongoing development were the responsibility of the BDUs.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1451     That's, I think, the principle going in, is it not?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1452     So assessing the costs to the BDUs is an important part of this proposal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1453     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.  Just to clarify, we supply the equipment, the ACA equipment at our cost and we bear the costs of upgrades and enhancements.  The cable operator or BDU is simply expected to install the equipment as best suits their head end and how they process the signals and that's basically it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1454     I mean obviously it's located at their head end, so they are expected to, you know, provide a safe home for it, and power and things of that nature, but if there is a failure in the equipment for any reason, we replace the equipment at our cost.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1455     We even cover the shipping cost.  They call us up and tell us what's wrong, we ship them a new unit right away, or in some cases we may even provide them with a standby unit.  So they are not expected to spend money repairing anything.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1456     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So taking any upgrades that we have discussed to this point, they would be included in your financial projections as part of your repair and maintenance costs of the ACA units?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1457     MR. TEMPLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1458     COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  This is our segue into a financial discussion.  Again we can clarify that point if I don't have it properly.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1459     As we know, you have tabled with us ‑‑ and it is on the public record and available ‑‑ new financial projections based on a proposal called "Analog Optional", which you noted in your reply could be a model you would look at where mandatory distribution order, as you have proposed, would apply only to dig