TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

             THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

               TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

             TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT

              LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

           ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

                          SUBJECT:

Various Broadcast Applications/

Plusiers demandes en radiodiffusion

HELD AT:                              TENUE À:

Westin Edmonton Hotel                 l'Hôtel Westin Edmonton

10135 100th Street                    10135, 100^e rue

Edmonton, Alberta                     Edmonton (Alberta)

June 21, 2006                         Le 21 juin 2006

Transcripts

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

Transcription

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

               Canadian Radio‑television and

               Telecommunications Commission

            Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

               télécommunications canadiennes

                 Transcript / Transcription

Various Broadcast Applications/

Plusiers demandes en radiodiffusion

BEFORE / DEVANT:

Michel Arpin                      Chairperson / Président

Barbara Cram                      Commissioner / Conseillère

Rita Cugini                       Commissioner / Conseillère

Ronald Williams                   Commissioner / Conseiller

Stuart Langford                   Commissioner / Conseiller

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

Chantal Boulet                    Secretary / Secrétaire

Joe Aguiar                        Hearing Manager /

Gérant de l'audience

Anne-Marie Murphy/                Legal Counsel /

Shari Fisher                      Conseillères juridiques

HELD AT:                          TENUE À:

Westin Edmonton Hotel             l'Hôtel Westin Edmonton

10135 100th Street                10135, 100^e rue

Edmonton, Alberta                 Edmonton (Alberta)

June 21, 2006                     Le 21 juin 2006

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

                                                 PAGE / PARA

PHASE III

INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:

Frank Biegel                                      670 / 3881

Dan Balisky                                       672 / 3896

Lorne LaRochelle                                  674 / 3905

Grande Prairie & District Multicultural           680 / 3946

  Association

Mamawenowak Society                               684 / 3959

Arts Culture Heritage and Music Festival          688 / 3977

Arjun Roy and Justin Staffen                      694 / 3993

Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival                  714 / 4095

Arlene Miller                                     719 / 4114

Greg King                                         728 / 4152

Mike Townsend                                     731 / 4166

Peace Wapiti Academy                              747 / 4244

Summerslam Sports Ltd.                            751 / 4261

Amanda Ford                                       753 / 4268

Grande Prairie Storm Hockey Club                  755 / 4280

PHASE IV

REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:

Standard Radio Inc.                               766 / 4355

Crude Communications Inc.                         767 / 4361

Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Ltd.                 768 / 4370

Sun Country Cablevision Ltd.                      772 / 4388

Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd.                      776 / 4417

O.K. Radio Group Ltd.                             777 / 4428

Newcap Inc.                                       784 / 4467

Allan Hunsperger (OBCI)                           785 / 4475

1097282 Alberta Ltd.                              792 / 4524

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

                                                 PAGE / PARA

PHASE I

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

1182743 Alberta Ltd.                              795 / 4543

Standard Radio Inc.                               851 / 4875

Vista Radio Ltd.                                  907 / 5301

Golden West Broadcasting Ltd.                     964 / 5680

                 Gatineau, Quebec / Gatineau (Québec)

‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Wednesday, June 21, 2006

    at 0837 / l'audience débute le mercredi

    21 juin 2006 à 0837

3873             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order, please.

We are now starting Phase III of this public hearing and I will have the secretary make the introduction.

3874             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3875             Phase III is the phase where other parties appear in the order that are set out in the agenda to present their intervention.

3876             For the record, I would like to indicate the intervenor CIRPA listed on the agenda has informed the Commission that they will not be appearing at the hearing.

3877             Also, two of the appearing intervenors who were listed on the agenda after the Fort McMurray presentations have informed us that they have inadvertently referred to the wrong application on their intervention.  They intended to intervene on behalf or in support of the Grande Prairie application of Allan Hunsperger, which is Item 2 on the agenda.  Therefore, these two intervenors will be called this morning along with the ‑‑ on the list of intervenors in support of Mr. Hunsperger.

3878             So I would call Mr. Lorne LaRochelle; Mr. Frank Biegel of the company 313894 Alberta Limited on operating as Magnum Electric and Mr. Dan Balisky; Peace Farm Power John Deere.  These three intervenors will be appearing on support of Mr. Hunsperger.

3879             Starting with Mr. Biegel, if you would start your ‑‑ make your presentation?  You have 10 minutes followed by Mr. Balisky and Mr. LaRochelle.

3880             Please go ahead.

INTERVENTION

3881             MR. BIEGEL:  Mr. Chairman, Commissioners and staff, my name is Frank Biegel.

3882             My wife and I have been a resident of Grande Prairie and area for the past 45 years.  We are blessed with four children and now are proudly grandparents of 18 grandchildren.

3883             I own and operate an electrical contracting business for the past 35 years, employing up to 45 people.

3884             I have experienced Grande Prairie as a medium‑sized town, from a medium‑sized town to a city of today, in this period of time from the local radio station of one to two stations as well as several remote stations.

3885             When I heard of the possibility of a Gospel radio station coming to this area I, as well as many of my Catholic Church supporters, got quite excited about it.  I spoke to my children and grandchildren about it.  They all were also excited about this as most of them sing and play instruments as well as a recreational pastime.  Yes, Gospel music is most of their favourite songs.  I then asked some of them to write down points and what their reasons were for wanting a Gospel persuasion radio station in our city, and the following are some of the answers I got:  Promote and support our young people with good moral values.

3886             We desperately want and need a station like this.

3887             We feel out of touch with our Christian persuasion.

3888             To stay informed locally and nationally.

3889             The forgotten north needs an outlet for Christian music.

3890             To promote love, compassion and encouragement of our families; to promote a sense of worth to the children of our country; to promote family life and values; to promote encouragement and advice for young families living in this fast‑paced world.

3891             Put emphasis on family entertainment rather than secular adult innuendos in song, in advertising and in news.

3892             I really think that this type of station would be supported by thousands in the area by both young and old.  We have been going to Gospel jamborees throughout the area for the past 10 years and there is always sell‑out attendance at these functions.

3893             I plead with you for your support, that Grande Prairie is ready for a Gospel radio station and ensure that the results will be rewarding to the listener.

3894             Thank you for your attention.

3895             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

INTERVENTION

3896             MR. BALISKY:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the CRTC.

3897             My name is Dan Balisky and I have lived and resided in the Grande Prairie area all my life.  In fact, my father came in Peace River Country in 1912 and our parents raised 10 children, and our family has been very active in the community, offering our time to many of the organizations in the community.  I have been the past president of the Chamber of Commerce; past president of our local Rotary Club; past chairman of the QEII Foundation Hospital Board and chairman of our local church board.

3898             We as a family operate several businesses in the area and many of my associates and friends feel very strongly that we need an alternative in a radio station such as a Gospel radio station.  We feel that this would give us a change from what we already now experience in Grande Prairie, and I feel that as a fast‑growing community, the families in our fast‑growing community and the affluence that they are all facing now, there needs to be a stronger moral support in many hurting families and especially in our younger age.

3899             In our business we feel that we would use it as an advertising lever as well.  I also feel that there are many Gospel artists that do not have the opportunity in presenting their talents in a radio station such as they would have in a Gospel radio station.

3900             There are many Gospel jamborees in the area and they are well attended.  In fact, they are out ‑‑ oversold and it is Gospel jamboree and people are attending them very easy.

3901             I trust that you would seriously consider this application for Grande Prairie as we really feel that the alternative is necessary.

3902             We want to thank you for your time and our presentation.  Thank you.

3903             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Balisky.

3904             Mr. LaRochelle.

INTERVENTION

3905             MR. LaROCHELLE:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners and CRTC staff.  My name is Lorne LaRochelle.  I'm a local resident of Grande Prairie since 1994.  I live there with my wife and two children.  We currently own and operate Superior Car and Truck Washes.

3906             I would like to thank you for the opportunity of coming before you today.  There are many reasons why I would like to see a Gospel radio station broadcasting for Grande Prairie.

3907             First of all, I believe that it would add value to our Grande Prairie community to have a radio station that emphasized and actively promoted a lifestyle that reflects high moral standards.  This would benefit the whole community by sending a positive message and influence to teens, young adults and adults alike.

3908             Secondly, such a radio station by virtue of its Gospel influence could have programming that focuses on practical tools for everyday living.  For example, by having programs aired that give suggestions to parents on how to raise responsible children or how to strengthen relationships in the family and community.  We all need that.

3909             The third reason is that I believe there are many individuals who would enjoy the type of music that such a radio station would air.  Again, this type of music tends to be positive and uplifting.  I enjoy it and I know of hundreds of others who feel the same.

3910             The fourth reason is as a local resident and businessman such a radio station would provide a much‑needed venue for advertising.  I would love to advertise in such a positive and uplifting environment.

3911             I trust that you will give very serious consideration for this request for a Gospel radio station in Grande Prairie.  I will definitely be a supporter of it and, again, I thank you for your time.  Thank you.

3912             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. LaRochelle.

3913             Commissioner Cram.

3914             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3915             And I apologize.  My father never remembered my first name so I'm very bad at names.  The gentleman in the blue shirt, one of 10 children; what was your name again?  I'm sorry.

3916             MR. BALISKY:  Dan, Dan Balisky.

3917             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Mr. Balisky.

3918             You were talking about Gospel jamborees and you were talking about the Grande Prairie region, are you?

3919             MR. BALISKY:  Yes, yes.

3920             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Can you tell me the number of jamborees during any given year?

3921             MR. BALISKY:  Well, I know that there are two in the area.  The biggest is in Beaver Lodge, Alberta which is about 30 kilometres from Grande Prairie.

3922             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  And do you go to them?

3923             MR. BALISKY:  Yes, attended them every year.

3924             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  And how many people would there be there?

3925             MR. BALISKY:  Well, I know that there is about 300 trailers so I don't know how many people.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

3926             MR. BALISKY:  I think up to 4,000 people.

3927             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Oh, okay.  Thank you very much.  Sorry for not noting your name.

3928             MR. BALISKY:  That's fine.

3929             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Langford.

3930             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3931             This question is to any or all of you.  It's just a kind of general question.

3932             We have licensed a number of Christian music stations across Canada and some include as well religious broadcasting.  You know, they do church services on Sunday and some have what they call brokered programming where they actually sell some of their airtime to ministries, some from the States, some from Canada who want to get their message across and we have no problem with that.  I mean, I think people should hear the messages they want.

3933             But what we try to encourage and, in fact, what we insist on is what we call a balance in those messages so that along with a Christian perspective you perhaps hear some values from other religions, the idea being that people in the community ‑‑ the general idea being that the people out in the community who aren't Christians but have their own values, have their own religions but perhaps are not numerous enough to have their own radio station, at least get their views aired and that builds a kind of tolerance or the hope is it will build a kind of tolerance.

3934             I just wondered if any of you would like to comment on that, how you would feel about that radio station adding that kind of element to their programming?

3935             MR. BALISKY:  I think there are many denominations that would make use of it.  We are not the owners or operators.  We wouldn't have the right in saying what type of programs they would have, but I would not be opposed to have some alternatives and different balances as you indicated.

3936             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Anybody else?    How about you with your children?  Do you think that would be good for them to get this kind of perspective?

3937             MR. BIEGEL:  Yes.  I would certainly be in favour.  If it was my station I would be in favour of creating a balance of that nature.  Certainly, their being open to other persuasions, I think, is acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

3938             MR. LaROCHELLE:  I think I have a common goal.  With our business we are here to build the community and this to me is just another avenue to build, build into the lives of the people in the community.

3939             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.  Those are my questions.

3940             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

3941             Thank you very much, gentlemen.

3942             Mrs. Secretary.

3943             THE SECRETARY:  I would now call on the next panel of five supporting intervenors to come forward:  Grande Prairie and District Multicultural Association, Mr. or Miss Someh Niengor ‑‑ sorry for the spelling ‑‑ Mamawenowak Society, Ms Darlene Cardinal; Christopher Thiessen from the Arts Culture Heritage and Musical Festival; Justin Staffen and Arjun Roy and Geoffrey Whittall from the Grande Prairie Regional College.

‑‑‑ Pause

3944             THE SECRETARY:  We will start with the Grande Prairie and District Multicultural Association.

3945             If you could please introduce yourself before you speak and perhaps spell out your name for the record if it is different than what is in the agenda?  Thank you.

INTERVENTION

3946             MS NIENGOR:  Good morning.  My name is Someh Niengor and if you have a problem memorizing it or remembering it, it rhymes with "Sunny" but with an "m" and you spell it S‑o‑m‑e‑h  N‑i‑e‑n‑g‑o‑r.

3947             I was born and raised in Grande Prairie.  I presently work at the Grande Prairie and District Multicultural Association as the DiverseCity Project Coordinator.

3948             In 2004 a community needs assessment was done in Grande Prairie and surrounding area.  The study was funded by Alberta Human Rights and Multiculturalism Education Grant program.  The project enabled the understanding of issues faced by visible minorities, aboriginal people, newcomers and immigrants to Grande Prairie.  Key findings from that study showed that racism and discrimination shows up most frequently in social interactions, employment and in local schools.  From these findings key perceived strategies were introduced and this project was named the DiverseCity Project.  The project focuses on three components of our community:  the corporate sector; the educational sector and the public through a public awareness campaign.

3949             The reason I am here today is because I believe that Sun FM's mandate to the community is in line with our mission at the Grande Prairie and District Multicultural Association and if granted the opportunity they would use their new radio station "Mercury" to continue to advocate and to help and to support the disenfranchised in our city.  Through Sun FM they have established themselves as a reliable, trustworthy and irreplaceable source by creating awareness around social issues.  They acknowledge their social responsibility by advocating for the voiceless.  An example of this would be "Kev's Kids" which has impacted many children and many families from diverse backgrounds.

3950             It is because of their sensibility and sensitivity to community issues that I felt comfortable in approaching Tom Bedore and Katy O'Connor about the issues we are facing at the multicultural association and, indeed, they were receptive.

3951             Our community is small and to the extent unexposed to diversity and different cultures.  Immigrants and visible minorities from many different backgrounds are pouring into Canada and into Grande Prairie.  As a result it's causing a clash and ignorance of different value systems, perspectives and beliefs and it's creating a misunderstanding between cultures which leads to fear and ignorance which in turn leads to intolerance.

3952             In partnership with Sun FM's team, we have begun creating and airing stories of discrimination online on Mercury.  One of the stories highlights an aboriginal youth receiving a new bike for his birthday.  The first time he rides his bike he overhears someone say "that bike must be stolen".  That youth no longer rides his bike and he no longer wants to claim his aboriginal heritage.

3953             I am confident by continuing to air the stories of discrimination on Mercury we will be creating awareness about the impact of racism on individuals.

3954             As I said before, I grew up in Grande Prairie and went to school there as well.  My brother and I used to walk to school with each other every day.  At that time our elementary school was across from a junior high school.  Everyday on our pathway to school there was a group of about 15 youth that used to hail racial slurs upon us.  These hurtful words reminded us everyday that we were different and that we didn't belong.  It stripped us of our self‑worth, our self‑esteem and it dampened our human spirit.

3955             One day I was home after school and my brother's friends rode their bikes up our driveway.  I could see right away that they were absolutely distraught.  Tears and mud had dried to their faces.  I knew something serious had happened.  They informed me that my brother had been hit by a van downtown about three blocks from our house.  I took off, running downtown right away.  When I arrived at the scene there was about 30 people crowded around, including the kids that used to harass us.  I pushed my way through the crowd and was completely unprepared for what I was about to see.  My brother was lying unconscious in the middle of the road.  His clothes had been cut off.  His arms and legs were broken.  His head was busted open against the pavement as he lay in the pool of his bodily fluids.  I completely lost it and I went down on my knees in grief and complete anguish overtook me.  In that moment, though, a beautiful thing happened.  A girl from the group that used to make fun of us ‑‑ when I had no one else she came and she put her arms around me.  In a single moment as our bodies touched and forgiveness and compassion overtook us, as the colour of our skin and our differences melted away, through tragedy and deep sadness we both realized that together we are part of one race, the human race.

3956             I feel that any program and event or in this case a radio station that is willing to promote diversity, multiculturalism and combat racism and discrimination should be seriously considered.  The new station Mercury has made it their mandate to break down barriers.

3957             Please approve their application so together we can reaffirm Canada's vision to eliminate racism and build a society where one's heritage and individuality is a source of pride and inspiration.

3958             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

INTERVENTION

3959             MS CARDINAL:  Tansi. Happy National Aboriginal Day.  Today is National Aboriginal Day.

3960             My name is Darlene Cardinal, President of Mamawenowak Society and also the sole proprietor for Dar Car Developments.

3961             I am a resident of Grande Prairie and have longed for a station that would hear the voices of aboriginal people.

3962             Mamawenowak Society promotes the education of the rich aboriginal cultural heritage to showcase the talents of the aboriginal people by hosting a talent show of jigging, fiddling and vocal talents.  We have hosted a workshop to educate non‑aboriginal people.

3963             In the Grande Prairie area I am recognized as one of the aboriginal elders.   Today is National Aboriginal Day which we celebrate and educate our brothers and sisters.  I was scheduled to teach a cultural workshop at Hythe High School today and I cancelled because I felt being an intervenor for the application of a new radio station is very important and explained to the organizations that this would be beneficial to the aboriginal people.  There is a growing population of aboriginal people in Grande Prairie and they are coming from all parts of Canada.

3964             It is my understanding that the proposed radio station has committed to ensure that aboriginal voices, music, stories and news will be a part of regular programming of the station.  What a wonderful and meaningful milestone for our community to have finally met.  This station could play a major and pivotal role in addressing racism and breaking down barriers within our north‑western communities.  Presently, there is no radio station in the region even attempting to meet these goals.  With this new radio station we can.

3965             Throughout history as well as in the present day, aboriginal news either does not make mainstream media or it is grossly inaccurate and in some cases downright racist.  The stories behind standoffs, land claims and settlements are not shared, leaving the general public to fall into a trap of looking at aboriginal peoples through negative stereotypes and coming to uneducated conclusions of the issues.  To have a radio station sharing educated and unbiased views is not only a dream of aboriginal people but I believe it is a dream of all Canadians.

3966             As well, in regards to educating our aboriginal youth, they need to hear voices from our communities on the radio.  This, I feel, would go a long way in ensuring aboriginal pride and help our people to raise up and hold their heads high.  The sharing of stories and culture would also be an exemplary tool in supporting the non‑aboriginal community in learning, understanding and sharing in our rich culture.  Everyone would win and be encouraged to move forward together.

3967             In regards to entertainment there are many very talented artists who do not get a chance or airtime on mainstream radio.  Singing and drumming is an ancient art form within aboriginal culture that has always been meant to be shared.  We as aboriginal people would be most honoured to finally have the opportunity to share our gifts within the mainstream.

3968             As well, many of our communities have very talented contemporary rock, pop, rock and roll, hip hop and alternative artists and have received recognition and accolades in the U.S.A. but are basically unheard of here at home.  Some examples of these musicians are Medicine Dream, The Richard Gaucher Band, Brian Taylor, Red Fish, The Black Bird, Wheels of Fire, Kath and the Tom Kats and my son, Stoneface, et cetera.  That's my son's band.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

3969             MS CARDINAL:  Sun FM has been a great support to the aboriginal community with what they have on hand.  They have been very obliging in making community announcements of our events, conferences, National Aboriginal Day celebrations and so on.  In the past they have emceed the Spirit Seekers conference and have supported requests that we have made.

3970             Sun FM has been a willing partner and we sincerely believe this will continue once the new radio is up and running.

3971             Sun FM has been beneficial but the new radio would be a new flavour and once the news is out the people will make that effort to listen to the new station.

3972             Mamawenowak has submitted a proposal to the City of Grande Prairie to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary in 2010.  The proposal that was submitted was to tie in with the city's celebration and National Aboriginal Day by having a week long of hosting a Métis celebration and pow wows.  Speaking to Tom about these great events has been noted and mentioned that they would like to promote the events.  This new station will be inclusive to our voice.

3973             On behalf of the Mamawenowak Society (Gathering of People) I thank the panel for hearing our voices and to take great consideration in bringing to us the station that will make new roads and bring forth positive changes for the people in northern Alberta.

3974             Thank you.

3975             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms Cardinal.

3976             Mr. Thiessen.

INTERVENTION

3977             MR. THIESSEN:  Good day, ladies and gentlemen of the panel.

3978             In case it is still misspelled on your pages, it is Thiessen T‑h‑i‑e‑s‑s‑e‑n, and I thank you for taking the time in having me here today to speak on behalf of Tom Madore and Mary Driver's team application efforts in operating Mercury Radio as the new commercial FM station to serve the Peace Region.

3979             As I said earlier, I am Chris Thiessen and I'm a local promoter for music in the Peace Region.  I also serve as the public relations coordinator of the Grande Prairie Regional College Students Association.  On top of that, I am also the master vision and production coordinator for a local not‑for‑profit music genre festival entitled "Peace Starts at Home" which raises money for various shelters, charities and local music programs within the Grande Prairie and Peace Region area.

3980             The reason I am here in support of the Sun FM group's application has everything to say about the people who are there from the DJs to the accounts team to creative and right up to management.  All these people have throughout the years and, in my most recent involvement with Sun FM over the past few years, shown an integritous commitment to cultivating the music scene and artistic growth and exposure of our local talents.

3981             To speak of this, when I first approached Sun FM in advertising for the Peace Starts At Home Festival and approached them in regards to the Battle of the Bands promotional fundraising concepts I was greeted with buoyant excitement and positivity in my initial meeting with Brenda McFadden of the Accounts and Kristy Ravindall of Creative.  But however, as is the case with most relationships, as rosy as our courtship was in the beginning, actions in the past came to bite me in the behind as in the weeks prior to the meeting, I had the opportunity to promote our event by word of mouth on stage at a Battle of the Bands at the Howler Student Lounge at the GPRC and in attendance that evening was a local beer representative from Labatts who liked the gist of the idea so much that he approached a group of bars in the Peace Region and took the idea as is own.

3982             When I informed Brenda and Kristy that day of our battle dates the colour seemed to drop from their faces at the same time as it did in the room as when I informed them that when we were planning to run our shows, they informed me that they recently had a paid contractual obligation to the Labatt group to promote their battle in Fort St. John and Peace River at the same time as the Peace Starts at Home battle dates were going on.  Obviously, I was disappointed and I left and sought out other advertising with another broadcaster in CKUA.

3983             But as chance would have it, the Labatts promotion folded and a week before we started running our Battle of the Bands promotion I received a phone call from Brenda McFadden very excited and asking if I still wanted to promote through Sun FM in regards to the Battle of the Bands.  In order to make up for lost time and showing a true belief in what I was trying to accomplish in the City of Grande Prairie they gave me a three for one price matching of what I paid for at CKUA, provided band interviews twice a week of the bands participating in the Peace Starts at Home, played their music on the radio station as well as volunteered many of their hours from the DJs side of their group to judging and making sure that the Peace Starts at Home was efficiently run.

3984             I have also had the opportunity of working with Sun FM in promoting other events such as Heritage Days with the Grande Prairie and District Multicultural Association last year and reviving it for the first time in seven years, as well as promoting the touring independent talents that come through the Peace Region as well as numerous college events at which I work for the Grande Prairie Regional College.  Of all these, Sun FM has shown the same courtesy in providing numerous airtime spots for all the talents that have participated.

3985             My thoughts on Sun FM's application for local talent in our community and in having Mercury as their new radio station and why I feel it is the best application that is presented is because what I find is a common consensus in my travels around Grande Prairie is that Sun FM is stretched very thin in how much airtime they have to promote everything that the people want from pop rock to rock to new music to programming that promotes the actual bands themselves.  There is just not enough hours in a week to provide it through one radio station and they have shown over the past two years of my involvement with them that they are a very capable group that is willing to get behind new music and are very capable of running and organizing that as well as another station.

3986             I have had the opportunity in the past to work with them on their independent spotlights, which is known as "Beaver Tales" on Sunday in Grand Prairie, and I'm very excited about their proposal to run a feature independent interview and talent show on the Monday through Friday programming at the 11:30 that is proposed in their application.  It gives the people of Grande Prairie, at least the musicians and the independent talents more time to promote themselves and be heard and seen.

3987             In regards to them contributing to the area talent development workshops within Grande Prairie, I think that is a great opportunity for all the artists in our community to learn how to properly promote, market and create their music so that they may be heard and can move their voice out throughout our country and also provides them a valuable opportunity in the approach of grant writing when it comes to certain organizations like FACTOR.

3988             And in saying FACTOR, as another part of their application, their seven‑year contribution to FACTOR forms for Alberta artists is also a great asset to the people in northern Alberta, at least the musicians as well; in regards to the fact that as a former band manager of two bands in Grande Prairie and seeking out FACTOR funding, I realize that it is very hard to get the necessary supply of the demand, I guess, of the dollars that are available through FACTOR.  Most Alberta artists are overlooked for people in Ontario, Quebec; as well as British Columbia in regards to the statistics.  Just having that money available to Alberta artists gives all these musicians a chance.

3989             In that regard too, and their proposal for the Rock the Peace CD and how it can be used to benefit the entire community, as a whole it is a great promotional tool, I believe, for all the bands to promote themselves as well as each other and with the advent of new technology the bands can then take that compilation CD as well and burn themselves a demo disk of two of their own songs if they wish to promote themselves as themselves and get their voice out into the community.

3990             In total, I do believe that the Mercury radio proposal is the best proposal that is out there and I thank you for hearing me and for taking the time to listen.

3991             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Thiessen.

3992             Mr. Roy and Mr. Staffen.

INTERVENTION

3993             MR. ROY:  Good morning.  Thank you very much for allowing us to speak on behalf of Tom and Marie's team for the proposed licence for a new rock station in Grande Prairie.

3994             I am Arjun and this is Justin.  We are both performing musicians, budding promoters and the co‑owners and producers at our new studio in town.  Apart from these joint endeavours we are involved with music in other capacities as well.

3995             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Excuse me.

3996             MR. ROY:  Yes?

3997             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Sorry, but I'm getting old.  Could you speak up just a little louder?

3998             MR. ROY:  Oh, definitely.

3999             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thanks very much.

4000             MR. ROY:  Perhaps I will do that.  Okay.

4001             So aside from those endeavours I also teach guitar lessons and I recently started ‑‑ well, actually, a couple of years ago started a music publishing company in order to help promote my work and that of others that I collaborate with.

4002             MR. STAFFEN:  My name is Justin.

4003             I have been a progressive and contributing member of the music scene in Grande Prairie for a long time promoting many shows for its benefit.  I own a sound reinforcement company and a recording studio for the past few years now, recently teamed up with Arjun, and am constantly helping bands get their music heard.

4004             I used to teach film lessons in the past and plan to pick it up again in the future.  Sun FM has always been a big part of the local music scene.  The annual star search they put on was always a big motivation for bands to get good recordings.  One of the bands I was a part of (Bella Bella) had won the star search that Sun FM puts on annually.  The result of that was mind altering; opening for major acts, money and lots of radio play.

4005             One of the biggest tools a band can have is a radio station on their side.  Every band I have played in has benefited greatly due to how important Sun FM feels the music scene is.

4006             MR. ROY:  For me, I have courted success with my band on stage as well as on the radio.  Thanks to Sun FM we have had two singles on the air and we have been featured many times on their independent music shows and due to Sun FM's support of those singles we were able to raise our profile in town as well as in the surrounding areas and due exactly to that exposure we were able to reach a huge demographic of fans that a hard rock band really doesn't have access to.  Since then, we have gained a following of fans that runs the gamut from teens and tweens all the way up to grownups and their parents.

4007             For all that success ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ however, the fact that we are a hard rock band rather limits the avenues of possible radio play due to the format of most stations.  While Sun FM has been kind to us and there are a lot of great bands in town whose music is simply too heavy for any of the current formats, promotion on featured Indie‑music themed shows is one thing but really getting a radio station behind you and getting your songs on the air is really unbeatable.

4008             Not only that but the way the musical climate has evolved in recent years has created a huge demand for all sorts of rock music.  A look at any list of charts always turns up a variety of harder‑edged music making up a huge part of any programming; classic rock guys like Wolf Mother and Sam Roberts; modern rockers like Godsmack and, of course, Nickelback and even heavier music are popping up on a much bigger level.  Genres of rock, metal and everything in between are enjoying success at a really unprecedented scale and it's because of all that that Sun FM's proposed format for the new radio station sits so well with us; a mixture of the rock music of today and the support for local music is exactly what listeners need right now.

4009             Though the choice of music itself is a huge factor in separating this application from the others, there are further reasons why we are here to support this application.  The suggested support for the local music scene as well as the developmental ideas to nourish the musicians within our scene is perhaps the biggest reason for our support.

4010             Firstly, Mercury FM would have more of an emphasis on playing local content.  As we mentioned earlier, there are a lot of bands whose music is of a very high standard, but the heaviness of their work stands in the way of truly getting the bands heard.  Mercury, being a rock‑oriented station, would be a great place for the bands to start building some buzz and raising their profile.

4011             Secondly, the proposed annual Rock the Peace compilation CD, funded by the new station, featuring a selection of the area's bands, is a wonderful idea that would be a great asset to any band and would go a long way to get their music out for the people to enjoy.  Not only would the artists get their songs on disc, but their time spent in a recording studio would be essential for the development of a well‑rounded artist.

4012             While it's true that the compilation CD is not specific to any single artist, the concept has been around for a long time from the record company sampler discs ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ from the record company sampler discs from the past to the proven success stories from the underground punk and hardcore scenes of today.  Such a compilation CD would be a great promotional tool in the hands of the artists who will not only be able to push themselves but an entire network of talented musicians.

4013             MR. ROY:  And lastly, the proposed workshops put on in conjunction with ARIA would be invaluable in helping the musicians to mobilize themselves in terms of publicity, promotion; networking and even the recording and song writing processes.  Justin and me have both been recording for the past few years and we have been trying to put on shows.  We have managed to pull it off but for the most part it's been a learning process.  If such workshops were set up to educate the musicians the learning curve would increase exponentially and we would be armed with all the tools necessary to help ourselves further our own careers.

4014             And that's it.  Thank you so much.

4015             THE CHAIRPERSON:  (Off mic) Thank you, Mr. Roy.  Thank you, Mr. Staffen.

4016             Mr. Whittall?

4017             MR. WHITTALL:  Good morning.  My name is Geoffrey Whittal.  I have been a music instructor at Grande Prairie Regional College since 1990.  Thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of Tom and Murray and their team's application for a new FM modern rock station.

4018             I put several reasons for my support of this application in the letter that I faxed to the CRTC, and I would like to amplify some of my comments.  Sun FM has proven over the years to be an excellent corporate citizen.  Their management has ensured that they are locally prominent, involved in numerous causes of direct benefit to the community, and active in promoting musical events and especially local musicians in Grande Prairie.  These are all laudable reasons for supporting this application.

4019             There are several additional reasons that cause me to provide support to the Sun FM application.

4020             First, this application is the only one in this process that is focusing a majority of airtime on the presentation of new rock music.  Grande Prairie has a young population; according to the 2001 national census our median age is slightly less than 30 years, while the median age across Canada is over 37.  With an influx of young workers into the oil patch in the past few years I expect that Grande Prairie's median age has dropped even lower.

4021             Providing music that is aimed at a younger audience is significant in a city such as ours.  A radio station that plays mainly new rock music is aimed at the right demographic in Grande Prairie ‑‑ younger people who are actively searching out new music that will become part of their lives, not older people looking backward to the music of their youth.

4022             As a college music instructor who teaches courses in popular music, I often hear my students commenting on the lack of opportunity to hear lots of cutting edge music on local radio.  Radio stations act as gatekeepers, and in a small and isolated market like Grande Prairie their effect is real and more significant than it would be in a larger centre with more stations than Grande Prairie.

4023             An average radio station in North America adds perhaps three new songs a week to their playlists.  For young people who are interested in what is new, and that is a common situation in all recent generations, this is a frustration.  Only three stations in this application process have indicated an intent to broadcast a significant amount of new rock music.  The Sun FM application is the only one of those aiming top broadcast more than 30 percent new rock music.  They are aiming for at least 60 percent.  This will provide listeners with a much greater chance to hear a significant amount of new music.

4024             This is also consistent with their stated intent of funding new music efforts by local and other musicians, in the form of funding for FACTOR and ARIA.  In contrast to others, this funding is most appropriate in this application because it is for a station that is planning to play a lot of new rock music.  This sort of funding creates a beneficial situation where it will help people attempting to successfully create the music that is being programmed on the station.  A modern rock focus and funding FACTOR and ARIA logically go hand in hand.  A classic rock or classic hits focus and that sort of funding do not logically go hand in hand.

4025             Sun FM has had significant news coverage for many years.  The local newspaper covers local events but not until the following day.  When Grande Prairie had a tornado in July 2004 Sun FM was covering it live.  When we had a water main problem in the fall of 2005 once again Sun FM was covering it live.  They were my source of up‑to‑date information about what I should be doing to deal with those situations

4026             Sun FM is a music‑based radio station but when something critical happens in our city their news reporting replaces the music.  In other words, they have live reports when they would normally be airing music.  This becomes particularly important in a community like Grande Prairie that has only two radio stations and no local television stations.  Breaking news is firmly in the domain of radio.

4027             Plans in this application are for a three‑person news team.  When added to the news services already provided by Sun FM, this will provide the combined stations with a greater ability to cover sports, local news, emergencies, cultural events and more.

4028             Along with the material in the letter I wrote supporting this application, the aspects that I have spoken of today are substantive reasons why Sun FM's application for a new station should be supported.  The music to be broadcast will be appropriate to the young and changing nature of our region's population, the funding plans for this application are most appropriate and beneficial to working, not retired, i.e. classic hits musicians, and news coverage that is already very good on Sun FM should expand and improve with the addition of a new voice for news in Grande Prairie.

4029             Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak here.

4030             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4031             Mr. Williams.

4032             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Mr. Whittall, where do your students find the cutting edge music you refer to now?

4033             MR. WHITTALL:  They find a small portion of it on Sun FM.  They are also hitting a lot of internet sites, Pitchfork Media, My Space and the various other sort of networking areas and new media sites.

4034             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Thank you.

4035             Ms Cardinal, are there aboriginal radio stations broadcasting into your region now?

4036             MS CARDINAL:  No (spoken off mic).

4037             Sorry.  No, there is ‑‑ not that I know of.  I haven't heard one.  I know there is one in Lac Laberge but it doesn't reach Grande Prairie at all.

4038             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.

4039             MS CARDINAL:  And the only one that we watch is APTN.  That is on TV, but then you don't hear nothing about the Grande Prairie and there is no ‑‑ I haven't watched anything about showcasing any of the aboriginals in our area.

4040             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Thank you for that, and happy National Aboriginal Day to you, Ms Cardinal.

4041             MS CARDINAL:  Yes, and I know it's National Aboriginal Day today but Mamawenowak celebrates ‑‑ we celebrate it on June 25th which is the fourth Sunday, which we respect the four powers and the four directions.  So it's at Muskoseepi Park on Sunday ‑‑ a little promo here.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4042             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  In the north we celebrate it on the longest day, June 21st, today.

4043             MS CARDINAL:  That's true, and I am one of the signators that signed in Ottawa and I really fought for June 21st, but then when we started thinking about the attendance ‑‑ so we were looking at the family and being aboriginal is very family‑oriented in our beliefs and values.  So we planned on having it on the fourth direction, fourth Sunday and this way the families, the parents and the school children are able to attend whereas 2010 is June 21st.  So it just falls in perfect there.

4044             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Well, in spite of your wise counsel, your spirit and enthusiasm make me think you must be a very young elder.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4045             MS CARDINAL:  Well, I'm on the sixties there with a very young spirit.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4046             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4047             Mrs. Cugini.

4048             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Good morning and thank you all for taking the time to come to Edmonton to make your presentations.  Please repeat your last name.  I don't want to mispronounce it.  I'm used to having my last name mispronounced but you know I just want to be able to pronounce your name properly.

4049             MS NIENGOR:  Niengor.

4050             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Gor?

4051             MS NIENGOR:  Yes.

4052             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Niengor is your complete last ‑‑

4053             MS NIENGOR:  Like g‑w‑a‑r.

4054             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Oh, Gwar, right, thank you.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4055             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Do you have the ethnic makeup of the Grande Prairie region?

4056             MS NIENGOR:  I don't.

4057             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  You do not at this ‑‑

4058             MS NIENGOR:  I don't have that with me.  We know that over 100 different countries are represented in Grande Prairie.  We also have about 16 different cultural groups in Grande Prairie.

4059             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And do you have any sense of what is the predominant ethnic group in the region?

4060             MS NIENGOR:  Predominant ethnic group would, of course, be aboriginal.

4061             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Right.

4062             MS NIENGOR:  And then Somalians as well are a growing cultural group in Grande Prairie.

4063             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And I understand that from what we have heard over the past two days that there aren't a lot of media outlets in Grande Prairie to promote your activities and that you are basically 100 percent reliant on radio at this point because I understand there is no local newspaper and no daily newspaper in the area and certainly no television station.

4064             What has been your experience with the other radio station in the area ‑‑ any of you ‑‑ in terms of promoting your activities, sponsoring your events and so on?

4065             MR. THIESSEN:  Well, in regards to the Peace Starts at Home, outside of the radio advertising which has been really beneficial to promoting the local music scene we do have a local newspaper called the Daily Herald‑Tribune.  The lady there, Diana Rennie, she's really big on trying to promote the arts and very much follows Tom and Murray's hearts in trying to promote the local art scene.

4066             We also work very heavily with a bunch of graphic designers to create posters which we plaster around the downtown area and sometimes people there don't like it too, too much, but it's just to get the awareness around.  But again, yes, we are pretty much 100 percent solely reliant on ourselves as well as whatever we are provided by the radio.

4067             But in regards to CJXX we have not really approached CJXX in promoting the rock scene since it is a country music station and my experience with CKUA last year was that as much as they are big into promoting the festivals, I think we were just too far north in Grande Prairie for them to really put any emphasis on our goals and agendas with Peace Starts at Home and for promoting our artists as they have an entire province to cover.

4068             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  What is the attendance for your festival?

4069             MR. THIESSEN:  Last year we had about 600 people attend and this year in some of our Battle of the Band shows we had upwards of 400 people attending, and that's a mixture between all ages and no minor shows.  We are expecting it to grow this year to upwards of 1,000 to possibly 2,000 people down in Muskoseepi Park being that it is a free event.

4070             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And how many bands participate in the Battle of the Bands?

4071             MR. THIESSEN:  We have 12.  This year I spoke to 25 and last year I spoke to 16.  So there is definitely a growth ratio in the Grande Prairie and Peace Region area for new bands and especially young bands who really learn a lot because we try to diversify who is listening to them on our judging panels between business, our representatives, teachers and just straight‑up bands and then people from the music industry.

4072             What we are really looking to try to do with the event is to cultivate, you know, their talent and allow them to get better by hearing the constructive criticism of many different groups.

4073             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And are they primarily rock bands?

4074             MR. THIESSEN:  Yes, they are primarily rock bands that are involved in the Battle of the Bands which is called "Peace Begins With Us".  That is the fundraiser for the Peace Starts at Home festival which features a whole litany of different genres that are represented in the Peace Region from reggae to jazz to country to folk to ‑‑ well, this year we are going to feature a haircut as well which really doesn't fit into a genre of music but ensures entertainment.

4075             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  So it is a pretty diverse array of music genres that are represented in the Grande Prairie area?

4076             MR. THIESSEN:  Very much so.  It seems like there is this artistic magnet that has just come into Grande Prairie over the past few years because we have a lot of really talented people coming out of the woodwork from everywhere, from B.C., from Toronto, from Newfoundland, you know, from all across Alberta simply because of the growing population and the workforce ability to find themselves a decent paying job and employment.

4077             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  That always helps.

4078             MR. THIESSEN:  Yes.

4079             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Thank you.

4080             Miss Cardinal, you wanted to add something?

4081             MS CARDINAL:  Yes.  We have approached the other ‑‑ CJXX ‑‑ and we didn't quite get a good response.  But I'm also coming in from the aboriginal side, is that we ask which stations do our advertising and one of the comments a couple of times I have received that the aboriginal people's self‑esteem, values and you know the dysfunctions that we are having.  And one of the stereotypes that we keep hearing is cowboys and Indians and thinking that CJXX is country so they were trying to avoid that, you know, and I know a lot of aboriginal people do listen to country music and there are a lot of country artists, aboriginal.

4082             So we have to eliminate or downsize the comments.  So we have gone to Sun FM and had all our advertising done through them, but this last year, May 14th, we had a fundraiser for Mamawenowak for Mothers Day brunch and they did advertise, announce on the radio for us.  So we are not ‑‑ you know, we are giving everybody a fair chance.

4083             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Thank you, thank you.  Those are my questions.

4084             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Whittall, you mentioned in your presentation this morning that you have studied a number of the applications that are on this record and one of the questions that we have debated over the last couple of days is how many stations, how many new stations could Grande Prairie support.  The general view by the applicants was two and some thought about even a third one of a specialty nature.

4085             If the Commission was to grant more than one licence have you thought about another format that will also meet anybody else's goals or answer to that ‑‑ another format than the one presented by Mercury that will complement the radio offering in Grande Prairie?

4086             MR. WHITTALL:  Yes, I have, actually.  From my perspective, just about anything else would fit.  Honestly, I can't comment on the business model of where things would overlap in the sense of adding new genres of music.  My perspective is that the more choice we have; the more opportunity we have to listen to different music the better.

4087             So in addition to rock if it was classic hits or easy rock I don't see that that would be an issue or a confusion for listeners.  I think it would just add to the richness of the region and provide people with more choice.

4088             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4089             Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your presentation.

4090             Miss Secretary.

4091             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4092             I will now call on the next panel of five intervenors to come forward, and I would ask Mr. Connell of the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival; Arlene Miller; Doug W. Crerar from the Grande Prairie Regional College; Greg King and Mike Townsend.

‑‑‑ Pause

4093             THE SECRETARY:  We will start with Mr. William Connell of the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival.

4094             I would like to remind you that you have 10 minutes for your presentation.  Thank you.

INTERVENTION

4095             MR. CONNELL:  Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, thank you for allowing me to appear before you this morning.

4096             I'm here in support of the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group's application for an FM licence in Grande Prairie.  Although I support this application, the main reason for my appearance before you is to emphasize the importance of the Save the Music Foundation which is an integral part of this application.  Let us be quite clear.  This is not just a project that satisfies the requirements of this application.  This foundation which will develop Canadian talent goes far beyond that.

4097             The Save the Music Foundation has the potential to change music and music education in the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia.  By supporting music education you will improve the quality and the volume of Canadian talent but, as you will also hear, improving music programs will do much more.

4098             The purpose of this foundation is not to provide plans to operate music programs.  That is a responsibility of our provincial governments which hopefully will see fit to increase funding to education in our provinces.  The Save the Music Foundation will enhance and enrich music programs by supporting new incentives for teachers and students, by developing new learning and performance programs and by instituting new performance opportunities to help develop Canadian talent.

4099             All of these initiatives will of course meet the Commission's criteria for developing Canadian talent.  The Save the Music Foundation will operate at arms length from the Pattison Broadcast Group with a board of directors in conjunction with the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival.  This board of directors will at all times be cognizant of the Commission's criteria and operate the foundation within the rules of CTD.

4100             The Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival, now in its 15th year, takes place annually at the band centre.  This festival is one of the most respected and prestigious festivals in Canada.  The festival will be an integral part of the Save the Music Foundation and will give the foundation instant credibility and acceptance by music programs across western Canada.

4101             The foundation will utilize and enhance many of the programs presently offered at the festival; programs such as TPDP which is a teacher's mentoring program; clinic and performance programs for students and unique concert opportunities for performing groups.  The financial support of the foundation will enable us to expand these programs right across both provinces as well as add new incentives for travel and performance and new programs such as the Best of the West.

4102             The Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival has a proven track record in developing Canadian talent.  Students who have attended this festival have gone on to a variety of performance careers from performing with Maynard Ferguson's Big Band to Stella Salido who was in Broadway production of Les Miserables; from Linda Brown who is a permanent member of the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra, to Russ Broom who is Jann Arden's lead guitar player; from Pat Beliveau touring with the Dorsey Band, to the Cherko Brothers who perform with Shania Twain.

4103             If you are serious about developing Canadian talent in the long term you must get to the grassroots.  You must get to the music programs.  You must get to the music kids.

4104             A point I would like to stress is how encompassing this foundation will be.  The Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival in a small way has developed talent every year working with three and a half to 4,000 students annually.  This foundation has the potential of working with 300,000 students annually.  If you want to develop Canadian talent there is no better way to do it than working with 300,000 music students.

4105             Also, the foundation will be supporting all forms of music both vocal and instrumental.  Every genre of music will be affected from pop to rock, from jazz to classical, from folk to country.

4106             When the Save the Music Foundation starts to take effect you will see a growth of strong music programs.  As teachers improve programs will become more successful which will in turn attract more students.  With the help of the foundation we may see four or even 500,000 kids involved in music programs in our two provinces.  As this pool of music students grows so too will the volume and the quality of Canadian talent.

4107             Across North America only 3,000 ‑‑ or excuse me ‑‑ only 3 percent of music students become professional musicians.  The other 97 percent of music students may not be performers but they will have a strong influence on the radio broadcast industry.  It is a documented fact that music students listen to music 50 percent more than non‑music students.  Not only do they listen to more music, they also listen to a much greater variety of music.  It is these music students that will listen to the radio far more than their peers.  With the support of the Save the Music Foundation not only will you see an increase in Canadian talent but you will also see an increase in the listening program because of these music students.

4108             The Save the Music Foundation, like the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival, will be a living organization which will adjust and adapt to the needs of young musicians.  We will develop new programs tailored to helping those young superstars.  We will work in partnership with school districts and community and church organizations and parents and students.  Unlike other incentives such as CARA and CADME and private organizations such as the Mannix Foundation, which we applaud, this foundation will have set programs and long term goals.

4109             With your approval of this application and if we do our job, my belief is that this foundation will be around long after we are gone.

4110             In conclusion, the Save the Music Foundation is unlike anything that has been proposed before.  This is not merely a funding organization.  This is a music education development program to help develop Canadian talent.  The potential of this foundation is immense.  Please do not let this pass by.

4111             Thank you.

4112             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4113             Ms Miller.

INTERVENTION

4114             MS MILLER:  Thank you to the CRTC for this opportunity.  I am excited to be here as it is not often an average Canadian is granted the opportunity to speak to the issuing of a new radio licence for northern Alberta.  Good morning.

4115             My name is Arlene Miller and I have worked and lived in Grand Prairie for over 35 years.  I am part of the business community as I am involved in no less than 11 small businesses.  I have raised and schooled my children in this centre for the north.  I have watched it grow from a small town to a regional centre.  I am proud to be a part of this community that we call Grande Prairie.

4116             My family and I believe in contribution and giving back to the community we earn our living in.  I have held board positions on the Downtown Association, the Grande Prairie Chamber of Commerce, the Grande Prairie Regional College Foundation, as well as I am a past member of the Opera Broadcast Association.  I also believe in the motto "Service Above Self", the motto of my Rotary Club.

4117             During the past year some of the causes that my family and I have been a part of include The Big Toy Box, a charity that gives toys to needy children at Christmas; the Relay for Life, a 24‑hour cancer relay; Kids With Cancer; the Community Foundation of Greater Grande Prairie and the Food Bank.

4118             CJXX Radio and the Pattison Group are involved in the causes that I have mentioned.  They don't judge an event or cause on its sexiness or how it serves them but how it serves our community.

4119             I am also very proud of my accomplishments as a broadcaster for over a decade as the general manager of CJXX Radio.  In this capacity I was asked to attend a think tank session for the Grande Prairie Public School Board in the early 1990s during these government cutbacks.

4120             Therefore, I feel I can speak to the social and economic fabric and structure of our community and its future needs.

4121             As I mentioned, in the 1990s the provincial government cut funding to education to everything except essential academic programs.  Music programs throughout the school system were eliminated.

4122             I can't tell you how impressed I am to see a western‑based initiative of the Pattison Group and how they support children and music.  How does a talented kid from western Canada who is gifted in music know how to access funds without programs like this?  How can the broadcast industry support itself or more importantly the music industry in Canada if we are not constantly developing an interest in music?  This application helps to create and sustain Canadian talent.

4123             The second point in the application is the commitment to news and the spoken word.  I hear time and time again from the average Canadian or the average citizen of Grande Prairie that they wish the news lasted more than 30 seconds and broadcast had more local information.  It seems to be the wish of the people of northern Alberta that radio be an information medium.  A wise broadcaster once said, "If you can't be international you have to be a local".  In Grande Prairie we can't be international.  We have to be local.

4124             The spoken word and news commitment in this application is far and above all the other applications before you.  Its local content serves as a bridge, bringing together all the elements that make Grande Prairie the greatest place to be.  And by the way, "The Greatest Place To Be" is the City of Grande Prairie's slogan.

4125             It is a privilege to be granted a broadcast licence by the CRTC and it is my opinion as a former broadcaster and, more importantly, a citizen of northern Alberta, a wife, a mother and a grandmother that the granting of a licence to the Pattison Group is a mutually‑beneficial relationship with the broadcaster and the community.  We in the community support this application and they in turn have shown their support and commitment in their application.

4126             Thank you.

4127             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mrs. Miller.

4128             Mr. Crerar.

4129             MR. CRERAR:  Thank you very much.  My name is Doug Crerar.

4130             Thank you very much, bonjour, tansi and thank you for the opportunity to speak here.

4131             I teach history and native studies at Grande Prairie Regional College.  I have been a writer and educator there for 16 years and want to start with my own roots in rural Ontario because I was raised one of the demographics, still remembering being raised in the one‑room schoolhouse in the country south of Ottawa, where radio became an avenue to national, regional and international perspectives.  We had the advantage south of Ottawa of having both CBC and CFRA which was a very different station than it is now, famous then for its rock music; wide, comprehensive news coverage and, of course, the incendiary open line show by Lowell Green.

4132             The point here, though, is that when I moved to Grande Prairie I discovered a radio station equally committed to regional coverage which had interest in news, public affairs and in‑depth reportage.  It was very exciting to discover actually that both stations had a reputation for this and I did ‑‑ at times was consulted and acted as an interviewee on Sun FM, originally known as CFGP, but in the mid‑1990s as that station moved into its current configuration I discovered there was more interest in accessing faculty to comment on public affairs and more interest in broad news‑making reportage coming from the Pattison Group CJXX.

4133             My relationship with the radio began in a community that saw radio as a connection and as more than entertainment and it continues in my commitment to what the Pattison Group is proposing to do here and what they have already done.

4134             The role of a radio station in our region is that of a morning paper.  This station in particular has done an excellent job of providing the kind of news that is not canned or packaged or provided by commercial news or wire services but actually has a news desk.  The station has a news desk with reporters and the news director is in fact an educated individual with a wide interest in world affairs, regional affairs and provincial affairs.

4135             As a result, what we need in Grande Prairie is a station which has the function of a morning paper to bring people as they prepare for work, school or other occupations to provide both the local events and some regional coverage but also to connect the world with our region and to access local individuals often in the community or in the academic community of the college who can provide commentary, in‑depth explanations, who can actually ask and sharpen the questions for community discussion that need to be done.

4136             For example, the role of the newsroom here is to bring resource people from the region to the attention and to the perspective of the regional listener so that they have access to follow up with them perhaps through the college or other institutions, something that I was able to do myself with CFRA and which I know individuals in the Peace Region can do with CJXX.

4137             It links, therefore, the people of the region with the news, with the world and with a perspective that our citizens need to make effective contributions as informed members of our community, questions like:

4138             Why are we in Afghanistan?

4139             Are we the light infantry for the American empire?

4140             Are we in many ways a puppet state?

4141             Are we in fact irrelevant in the international community or is in fact our pride we take in peacekeeping and other activities really a self‑indulgent nostalgia or a self‑congratulation?

4142             How do we understand the concern of First Nations people across Canada and in our own region and how do we understand and how do we deal with often public statements by Canadian officials or by other officials we pick up on our connections with American media on broad sweeping generalizations about land claims and so on?

4143             The answer, of course, is that you can take what is provided in the canned, pre‑packaged media coverage that can be purchased through wire services, that can be repeated in the news in the Daily Herald‑Tribune which is about a day or two behind what is reported in the radio and accessible immediately to the listener, or one can also add value to that by engaging local individuals who have some knowledge, travel and some expertise in those areas.

4144             The point, then, is that without dependence on the wire services or pre‑paraphrased pre‑packaged commentary, this station is a news provider as well as a news purveyor to consumers, to audiences in the region and it is heard.  The feedback I receive, the feedback others receive of the coverage for news and commentary from CJXX is widely heard in the region and widely appreciated.

4145             CJXX has a track record, a track record which there is a commitment to perpetuate and, I think in many ways, revise and improve in the new application.  They satisfy the Broadcasting Act's concerns around Canadian cultural and social objectives.

4146             This is Canadian interpretation of news.  This is regional interpretation of news.  This is the linkage which brings reporters from the station to hear people like Gwynne Dyer speak at our college, to involve people in the region who are involved in various causes, to have an audience in the region and to link the world through people living in our region is well connected with the world despite its portrayal as an isolated and rather northern in‑service region resource here as the wood and drawers of water and pumpers of oil to the rest of the world.

4147             Actually, there is a number of people in the Peace Region who are connected internationally through NGOs, through involvement in a number of other causes and activities who brought their expertise to the Peace to enrich the region and who are available for commentary, for advice and, in fact, in some ways for criticism of what is often filtered through by the pre‑packaged media available to most people on a commercial station which does not have a focus or a commitment to accurate news.

4148             This valuable, in‑depth addition to standard news coverage allows the vision of the Pattison Group to maintain their track record of in‑depth reportage and to further improve it.  This convinces me that I want to offer support for this.

4149             I think it's important to say that the college community is also committed to this kind of vision and so I'm here to support the application.

4150             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Crerar.

4151             Mr. King.

INTERVENTION

4152             MR. KING:  Bonjour, tansi, good morning and Happy Aboriginal Day.  My name is Greg King.  I am Métis and I am from the Métis Nation of Alberta and their education sector advisor.

4153             I was originally supposed to be celebrating National Aboriginal Day today but I took this morning off, if you will, to be here.  The rest of my office is shutdown and they have all gone out to Métis Crossing, which is our version of Fort Edmonton, if you are familiar with Fort Edmonton, which is an historical site.  It's northeast of here, near Smoky Lake, one of the first settlements here in Alberta.  They are sort of helping to paint the barn and cut the grass and do that kind of thing today.

4154             So what would take me away from doing manual labour at actually something that is quite a joy, a pride of our nation here in Alberta?  That's something else.  It is a shared vision.  I think it's equally important.

4155             But let me talk a little bit about who am I first.  Well, I am a former teacher, used to be physics and biology.  I'm told those aren't Métis subjects but I disagree.

4156             I come from a long line of proud Métis, proud aboriginal people, and growing up and trying to find ways to sort of make ends meet and find my formal education was a challenge.  Well, it comes down to dollars and cents sometimes trying to find the money and it's not unique to Métis students.  It's not unique to Canadians in general.

4157             But what I found is that there weren't a lot of opportunities specifically for Métis students.  There are millions of dollars set aside for aboriginal bursaries and so forth but not many of them are Métis‑specific.  In Alberta up to this point there has only been one Alberta‑wide scholarship that has been made specific to Métis students.  There is an old saying that the Métis are Canada's forgotten people; a little bit of truth to that, I think, and that we sort of all get lumped together into this nebulous mass, these Métis that are just sort of absorbed into this idea of aboriginal.

4158             I sit on many boards.  I have had the opportunity to influence the social studies curriculum here in the province and work quite closely with Alberta education to try and sort of dispel this myth.

4159             Just a causal example ‑‑ I know it's not quite on topic, but it's sort of why I am here ‑‑ talking about residential schools and how aboriginal students weren't allowed to practice their religion or language but for the Catholic Métis that was a little bit of a different experience.  Not all Métis were Catholic and not all Métis necessarily spoke French or English for that matter, but for those that did they were not represented in that kind of thinking back and thinking about aboriginals as this nebulous pan view of our group.

4160             The recognition that the Pattison Group has given already in one of its affiliates down in Medicine Hat to and working with the Métis local there and establishing its Métis‑specific scholarship has been very empowering for that group and it is speaking to a need that isn't often addressed.  So too they proposed to have in Grande Prairie, set up a Métis scholarship to encourage Métis students to become represented in the broadcast world.

4161             I'm here to speak on behalf of those future students and to encourage the Chairman and Commissioner, other Commissioners and staff here to think carefully about the investment that the Pattison Group is proposing.  It's not just this investment alone, of course.  They are very committed to investing in the community as a whole.

4162             But this kind of specific recognition is rare and private investment in the community, especially our community, is rare too and it is something that we have been working towards, to work with government and the private sector and our own community to foster a greater sense of community and to really enrich all of our lives.

4163             Just in closing, I would like to thank the Pattison Group for asking me here to help support them and thank you, Chairman, and Commissioners, for allowing me to speak here today.

4164             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. King.

4165             Mr. Townsend.

INTERVENTION

4166             MR. TOWNSEND:  Yes, good morning.

4167             I am Mike Townsend.  I have been a member of Music Alberta Board, Alberta Band Directors Association Board; presently the secretary for Phi Beta Mu International Band Directors Fraternity.

4168             I am a 35‑year band director in the Grande Prairie Public School District and I have conducted the Grande Prairie Marching Band the same 35 years.  I have been supervisor of the Grande Prairie Public School District for the past 27 years.

4169             I have worked with Ken Norman and others at CJXX since the inception of their station.  They have always been very supportive of what I do in the school district and in the community with the marching band.  These people mean what they say and they can be relied upon to keep a commitment.

4170             The main reason that I am supporting this application today is the excitement about the Save the Music Foundation.  It is of special interest to me, of course.  I have read the Appendix A that has been supplied and I support all the ideas put forward in the Save the Music Foundation.

4171             School music is a necessity, not a frill.  School music is where music talent and talent ID begins.  Many of the performing professionals in the music world today got their initial exposure and developed their love of music through the school music program.  There are some working bands in Alberta today; Captain Tractor out of Edmonton; Emerson Drive.  Both of these bands have musicians that came through the Grande Prairie public and the Grande Prairie Catholic high school system.  A lead clarinet player of the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra is one of my former students.

4172             I believe that if we are going to create more of Canadian talent, working Canadian talent out there, we need to expand the base.  We need to expand it down at the bottom, not at the top, and the efforts through the Save the Music Foundation is going to do that.

4173             Save the Music Foundation is a western Canada project.  It is aimed at the talent in the west.  It is being promoted by radio stations in the west.  These stations, Pattison Group, have made a commitment to put back into their business area funding to help develop future music talent and to keep music in the schools.  There is no other program in Canada that I know of like that, that I have become aware of in the past 35 years.

4174             In closing, I have attended the Rocky Mountain Music Festival and can attest to its value and to its worth.  Thank you.

4175             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Townsend.

4176             Commissioner Cram.

4177             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4178             I'm sorry.  I have been writing people's names down so I don't ‑‑ but the first speaker, I didn't hear your name.

4179             MR. CONNELL:  Willie Connell, Willie Connell.

4180             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Cong?

4181             MR. CONNELL:  Connell.

4182             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you.

4183             You said that music students listen to music 50 percent more than non‑music students.  Now, I have heard about it raising your IQ by 10 points and that you get better in math and I am living proof that that's not true.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4184             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  But where did this study come from?  Can you tell me the source?

4185             MR. CONNELL:  Yes.  I found that out through MENC, Music Educators National Convention web page.  They link with all sorts of organizations, music organizations and that is just one of you know many, many statistics and facts that are on that web page.

4186             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  And does it ‑‑ like I was a classical musician.  Would it mean that I would listen to just classical music or does it mean that I listened to all different genres?

4187             MR. CONNELL:  No, it was interesting.  I was just at the Music Educators National Convention in the United States three weeks ago and there was a session on developing music with children and one of the presenters there at that time said that what they had found out was that music students, even although they may be studying in one area they are more apt to listen to all forms of music than non‑music students.

4188             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  So what we need to do in order to address that demographic that is leaving radio and not listening to it, which is high school kids, is teach them music.

4189             MR. CONNELL:  Yes.

4190             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you very much.

4191             THE CHAIRPERSON:  You are all except Mrs. Arlene ‑‑ you are all educators and I would say Mrs. Cram raised a good question.  It's a fact that in North America that the younger generation have left radio to get their music from other means and those are at least the statistics and the outlet that BBM provides us with and so over the years we have been able to make the necessary comparison and the conclusion that the younger generation are listening to iPods, to the internet and other means.

4192             Do you by your own ‑‑ because you seem to all have music activities, have found out ways or suggestions to make to the broadcasters what they should do to recuperate the younger generation and bring them back to radio ‑‑ any one of you?

4193             MR. CRERAR:  As a non‑musician, although I have some skill with the tape recorder and the record player and the mystical device called the CD, my experience with students in general is that they are actually by nature curious and by disposition eager to learn, although most teachers wouldn't admit that after they do the marking.

4194             The point would be that they have their tastes.  They have their peer group.  They have their own ways of using technology.  The cohort we are educating now is far more technically adept than even my generation which invented many of these devices.

4195             The point would be, though, that these students also are often glad and eager to be touched by something other from teachers, from community leaders, from the media that adds value as to their curiousity.  If Aristotle said, "Man by nature desire to know", we know that students by nature desire to get stuff and to learn stuff and one way to do that is by providing a catchy but also outside the box interpretation.

4196             I mean, if you look at the post‑millennial, post‑modern generation we are looking at now, they can smell a package, that carefully‑managed, modern marketing technique a mile away and they usually detest it.  That's why most institutions are failing right now because they depend on modern style packaging with all the consultants, with media surveys, pollsters, market needs assessments and so on.  What these students want is something outside the box that attacks something with relevance and that can't be done by pre‑packaging.  That has to be done not even with market surveys, and with all due respect to those who disparage classic rock, there is a place for the old rock because it asks the questions that are still with us today.

4197             So I think the question is radio will live as radio is relevant and the relevance has to leave the marketing ‑‑ the box behind and to say (a) you matter, you are important; (b) we have the people right around us who can connect what you think is dead with what you think is the package and say inside all that there is a place for individuals.

4198             Radio is people.  Education is people.  When all the surveys rise and fall and political regimes abusing and prostituting education, as a historian I'm still trying to understand what the purpose is, the real agenda is behind something called social studies because I think, in the end, we only blend and fall into watering down of things when we start leaving people behind and go to systems.

4199             What I like about this station is that it's not a system‑driven concept.  It's not a package‑driven concept.  It says what do the people ‑‑ what do they listen to, who are they and how can they be part of this station, which is why their reporting teams go to the scene, talk to people who travel, who have been around who are also however committed to the region and emerge from the grassroots like I did in the Ottawa Valley and have other people in the region say this person is just over there at the college.  This person lives in Grande Prairie.  What is their phone number?  Could they come to our school?  Could I go to their college?  Could we, in listening to their station, hear them again?

4200             It's these people contacts, just as in the music world that we are going to catch the attention and keep radio relevant.

4201             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4202             One of the intervenors who is not appearing here, which is the Canadian Independent Record Producers Association, is saying that Pattison, rather than put their money into Save the Music Foundation should send their money to CARA because Save the Music Foundation is a duplication of CARA.

4203             I know that you have alluded to CARA, Mr. Connell.  Do you have any comments to make on that?

4204             MR. CONNELL:  Yes, I think there is a major difference.  I mean, CARA has been around for a while and we applaud what they do just like CADME in Calgary.

4205             The music foundation that we are establishing, the Save the Music Foundation, has set programs.  We are just not giving money for people to apply for instruments or to travel.  We are looking at education and saying, "How can we improve education? "What can we do to make education stronger so that kids are more involved in music so that we can develop more Canadian talent?"

4206             We have specific programs that we are going to be offering.  It's almost like ‑‑ you know, like a university class‑type thing that we are going to offer programs.  We are just not going to be offering money to buy products.  We are saying through our experience and through our contacts that we will be setting up programs, we will be doing things that will improve music.  You know, it may be such ‑‑ if you think of it as like a night school class kind of thing, we are just not going to be funding.

4207             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, Mr. Townsend (off mic).

4208             MR. TOWNSEND:  Yes, I am a guy from the field.  I'm actually active teaching, doing this stuff, and have for many years.

4209             CARA is something I know nothing about.  I don't know what you are talking about.  If there is a program that already exists I don't know that.

4210             When I got the invite to speak on behalf of the Pattison Group it is because of this Save the Music Foundation that sort of lit me up because now there is something that looks like we can access and help to promote music in the schools and ultimately develop the talent in the west.  It's because it is a western program that it needs to be done.  So many things go down east and never come back out west.

4211             Thank you.

4212             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4213             Mr. Langford.

4214             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4215             Mr. Crerar, I have been listening to you.  I read your intervention and you mentioned in both of them it was kind of ‑‑ I guess kind of ‑‑ that this sort of public service educational deep in‑depth news approach of the Pattison station would serve students' needs and would be of great aid for students and you felt that this is something that students want and something that students need to have this.  You were even quoting Aristotle, you know, this great ‑‑ it was better than Plato, I suppose, but ‑‑

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4216             MR. CRERAR:  More practical but not as cool.

4217             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  ‑‑ this great curiousity.

4218             And yet, the disconnect I am finding here is that the student association for the very college where you teach supports another one of the applicants.  They support the Crude Communication application and I just wonder why that would be.  I mean, maybe you can help me understand why you speaking on behalf of the students want ‑‑

4219             MR. CRERAR:  I think it's the nature of Canadian pluralism.

4220             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  ‑‑ something else.

4221             MR. CRERAR:  Yes, I think it's the nature of Canadian pluralism right now and the way in which the funding and the managing of information is handled.

4222             Students by nature are alternative thinkers, college students in particular.  But I'm thinking about the high school students and the public school students who will listen to the radio with mom and dad in the morning maybe even in the barn or on the tractor who are thinking about this and who will come after these.

4223             College students naturally have their tastes.  We have a large international community from Nigeria, from the Orient.  We also have students who are wanting to transfer and move on out to other communities; to leave for national service to work in NGOs, and in a way although they often listen maybe even in their closet to country and western, there is also other ways in which those stations are the community stations.

4224             Those connections are the community connections out of which that matrix arises students who think bigger, who think with a regional international perspective and who will go on to do other things.  They are the ones who want to know more but won't always get that except they'll get the latest rock news, the latest internet buzz, and that's nice.  But in the end when they emerge they are saying, "But what do I do with my life?"  It's the old question, how do I get a job or how do I find my way in the world?

4225             And the answer is it's probably not going to be in Grande Prairie if you are thinking of education.  You are going to be looking at leaving at some point to engage the larger province in the nation.

4226             That's why so many of the students that I am teaching are on their MP3 when they should be listening to my lectures, are listening to something they got from the internet.  When that's put away and they look at the larger perspective of their life track they also appreciate the fact that people close to them physically, voices they can hear, people they can visit, people they can talk to are actually from there, in there and have a voice to the radio station that looks after people.

4227             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  If they are listening to their MP3s, this sort of guardian class, future guardian class of students who are looking for something more, looking for something extra that you speak of, surely they are not listening to in‑depth coverage?  They are not turning on their MP3s for a download of a Gwynne Dyer lecture and I wonder whether they won't be finding that sort of thing on As It Happens on the CBC.

4228             I was interested to hear Ms Miller say that, you know, you can't be international here but you can be local and that's what you can provide.  It seems to me that you are reaching ‑‑ the way I am hearing you anyway, that you are saying quite the other thing; that the value added for you is this international connection which to me then I see a double disconnection, a disconnection between you and Ms Miller, a disconnection between you and your own students.  I am having trouble actually in assessing the Pattison application, seeing it fit into this niche that you are speaking about.

4229             MR. CRERAR:  Well, maybe the mental matrix you are working from ‑‑ remember that students don't go in straight lines.  Linear logic is not a gift.  It's something that is imparted sometimes.  People hear and think on a broad scale.  Their minds are shifting; incidents, memories, collections and often is focused on charismatic people in the end who are the most influenced.

4230             They may be interested and they put a lot of money as consumers into one kind of media, one phase in their life, but at another point they are also listening to everything and in spite of us teachers they learn.  They also of course describe CBC as "nerd radio" or "geek radio".  On the other hand, every now and then when they hear their voice on it they tune in.

4231             I think there is a way in which you are right.  There is a disconnect, and it's generational and it is institutional and that's why radio stations that try to keep perpetuating even the music they are in trouble.

4232             I think the one thing that bridges that, especially in our region, is the people connections that are made by hearing their voices, by hearing their questions communicated.  And it may be only on the bus ride to school.  It may only be at the morning breakfast table.  It may be at night sometimes, but often the solution is that they don't wear their MP3 all the time and if they keep the volume up they will be deaf soon anyway.

4233             Seriously speaking, people are not parallel.  They are thinking along several lines at once.  They are taking in information at all ages in different ways and they are trying to line up some linear ‑‑ all comprehensive or totally connected series of sequences or services is actually part of the problem with the modern project.  Most of the time people are actually, sometimes even what could be called at the clan level socially, and that interaction includes interaction with parents, interaction with teachers.  Teachers after all are the most significant adult in many students' lives outside the parents, sometimes in spite of the parents, and those relationships involve a generational cross that sociologically appears not to be a connect until you talk to someone like Reginald Bibby or others who are doing work with these cohorts and discovering that there is an interest longitudinally over generations as well as their own particular fads at the time or their own particular interests.

4234             We have people today that have the technology to become very intensely informed on very narrow subjects and every now and then they come up for air, you might say, and say, "Yes, but what is the big picture?"  And the answer is people who can connect you with that.

4235             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Well, folks, those of you from Pattison who do the programming, there is your challenge.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4236             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Those are my questions.  Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.

4237             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Commissioner Langford.

4238             Thank you, Mrs. Miller.  Gentlemen, thank you for your presentation.

4239             We will move to the next cohort of intervenors.

‑‑‑ Pause

4240             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Miss Secretary.

4241             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4242             I will now call on the next panel of supporting intervenors starting by Anil Padayas of the Peace Wapiti Academy; Mr. Graham Johnson of Summerslam Sports Ltd.; Amanda Ford of the Grande Prairie Regional College Students Association and Mr. Rick Nordstrom from the Grande Prairie Storm Hockey Club.

4243             We will start with Anil Padayas.  You have 10 minutes for your presentation.

INTERVENTION

4244             MR. PADAYAS:  Thank you.  Good morning to the panel.

4245             My name is Anil Padayas.  I am from Peace Wapiti Academy in Grande Prairie, and our academy is not a private school but a public school.  We are approximately 400 students from grades 9 to 12.  I am currently the vice‑principal at Peace Wapiti Academy.

4246             As you probably heard, there is a growing population that is occurring in Grande Prairie and area.  There are two other high schools in that area.  The one right beside us has a population about 1,400; another high school that is a Catholic high school that has a population of about 800 students.

4247             Our school draws from the surrounding area.  We are a regional school division and we draw from outside of Grande Prairie, the surrounding areas, farms, acreages and the smaller communities that surround us.

4248             Our school offers a variety of programs, sports programs; football, basketball, volleyball, track and field, badminton, all those things that are fairly common in high schools.  We also have a strong academic program offering scholarships and university entrance programs.  We also offer trades in mechanics, building construction, welding and so forth.  We also offer a dynamic fine arts program that involves drama, music and choral.  We also have a general learner's student population as well which offers special needs programs to students.

4249             We also offer something called work experience for students that gives them an opportunity at a high school level to earn credits.  In the province of Alberta for a student to achieve a high school diploma they have to earn 100 credits in terms of the courses they take and the courses they take usually end up having five credits per course and students earn these credits to help them achieve their high school diploma.

4250             Now, work experience allows them to go out into the work field and have an opportunity to work in a specific area and learn about that industry, whatever that might be, and earn credits based on whatever that trade or industry is.

4251             I'm here to support Crude Communications for many reasons and I will highlight them now.

4252             First and foremost, they are a locally‑owned company; business owners, families and parents and students that more than likely will be coming to our school and supporting our school in terms of what happens in the community and region.

4253             Crude Communications allows our school or gives us an opportunity to do announcements for school events, coverage of local activities, sports and fine art programs.

4254             Also, Crude Communications allows us an opportunity for independent artists to develop their skills and showcase them through their broadcasting.

4255             But most importantly, as I was speaking of work experience, one of the things that education right now is trying to give students an opportunity to do different things, and I believe that a local broadcasting company would allow our students an opportunity to try what the radio and broadcasting industry has to offer and in turn maybe ‑‑ and somewhere down the line give them an opportunity as a profession somewhere in the future.

4256             The biggest impact; once again, as I say, work experience in terms of allowing students an opportunity to be in the broadcast industry and try to see if that's their niche in terms of what they want to do in their future plans.

4257             Also, we as a school offer band and choral programs that allow students an opportunity there to approach Crude Communications and have some time, airtime, so that they have a chance at being able to air to the community.

4258             Thank you.

4259             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Padayas.

4260             Mr. Johnson.

INTERVENTION

4261             MR. JOHNSON:  Good morning.  My name is Graham Johnson.  I am a local music promoter in Grande Prairie.

4262             I have a company called Summerslam Sports.  It has been a music festival and sports tournament for the last seven years.  We have had pretty much everybody in Canadian music that is in the top categories over the few years.  Last year our headliner was Great Big Sea; 54‑40; Sam Roberts who is a multi‑Juno award winner.  This year of the headliners we have three of the top five Juno nominated for band of the year are our headliners.

4263             Besides that I have also put on hundreds of small, medium, large concerts through both the music festivals and also my association with a small 500‑seat music venue that I was involved with, with my father Byron Johnson, which is still in existence today.

4264             I have never felt so popular than until this process started.  I have been approached by pretty much a majority of the applicants that you have and I wanted to sit on the fence because it's an interesting process that we are going through here, and until I read all of the applications did I decide that I wanted to support the local guys.  I have some involvement in the community besides all of the music that we put on and in that involvement I realized today that the local ownership is crucial.  Our city has grown considerably over the past few years and it's the only time that you see people that we grew up with ‑‑ I have been in Grande Prairie for 40 years and when I go to non‑profit organizations or community‑run events it is the only time today where I run into my old friends.

4265             So therefore, I truly back the local owners, Gord and Donna from Crude Communications.  I have worked with them before on other events and they do a tremendous job.  I think it's important that they get the support from guys like me and I look forward to working with them in other music and community events, whether it be through the ball association that he is the president of or anything that I am involved with.  He is always there to help me out and it's important that I have a voice when I put on my small events as well as my large events.  He has shown me the support in the past.

4266             That's all I have to say.  Thank you.

4267             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.

INTERVENTION

4268             MS FORD:  Good morning.  My name is Amanda Ford and I was born in Grande Prairie and have recently just moved back after growing up further north of Grande Prairie to continue my education in college.

4269             As well as a student at the Grande Prairie Regional College, I am an executive member of the Grande Prairie Regional College Students' Association and I am here on behalf of Crude Communications.

4270             The Grande Prairie Regional College Students' Association is a constituted non‑for‑profit organization that represents students' interests.

4271             The organization is run by students for the students; services that we provide range from health and dental plans to our Room of Plenty food bank to campus activities.

4272             As the vice‑president of social programming at the students' association for my second consecutive year, it is my responsibility to coordinate; run affordable on and off campus events for all our students.  Our campus lounge is a venue for many of our numerous events throughout the school year.  In addition to our monthly events Howlers is also a popular hangout spot for our students before, after and in between classes.

4273             Grande Prairie is a city with an extremely strong and demanding economy and there is no immediate end in sight to its enormous growth.  As Grande Prairie's economy and future continues to prosper, it is clear to say that education is a very important variable to the city's development.

4274             In Grande Prairie our enrolment is beginning to decline.  I have a ‑‑ it seems to be that Grande Prairie is very large and numerous jobs are opening up and people are coming or dropping out of high school and just landing into these jobs and not wanting to continue their education further.  To me, education is our future.  We are continuing to learn every day and to get the future knowledge for these jobs out there you need to go to school.

4275             As a student leader it is my duty to fight for post‑secondary improvements and Crude Communications is willing to help us do this by setting aside funding for scholarships and giving students the opportunity to work hands on in their industry.  This opportunity could potentially open up new doors for implementation of new broadcast‑related programs at our college.

4276             Education, as I said, is very important to every aspect of life and society needs to really begin to see its true importance so that we can help.  So with the help of Crude Communications I truly believe that Grande Prairie Regional College along with local high school, we can convey this message to our local and surrounding communities.

4277             I would like to thank you for this opportunity to support Crude Communications who was willing to help us positively change our organization and the surrounding community.

4278             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4279             Mr. Nordstrom.

INTERVENTION

4280             MR. NORDSTROM:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman and CRTC board.

4281             My name is Rick Nordstrom.  I have been married for 27 years.  I have four children and a very patient wife named Patricia.  We have resided in Grande Prairie for 13 years.  We have watched Grande Prairie double in population and understand that it may double again in the next five years.

4282             Having spent approximately 30 years in new home construction, I have decided to spend the next five years developing young hockey players.  I have sat the past six years on the minor hockey executive as a volunteer.  I am also one of the original founders of the Grande Prairie Storm Junior A Hockey Team and at present I am the governor representing the Storm in the Alberta Junior Hockey League, also as a volunteer.

4283             The Grande Prairie Storm is a non‑for‑profit community‑owned Junior A hockey franchise operated by volunteers.  We are one of 16 franchises in the Alberta Junior Hockey League.  The Alberta Junior Hockey League extends to four corners of the province from Grande Prairie in the northwest to Fort McMurray in the northeast, to Canmore in the southwest and Drumheller in the southeast.

4284             We are beginning our eleventh season in the Alberta Junior Hockey League and they have led the league in attendance every year and have been one of the top‑drawing teams in all of Canada since we have joined the league.  We have over 1,600 season ticket holders and an average of almost 2,500 fans per game.  We play a 60‑game schedule, 30 games at home and probably three or four exhibition games plus playoffs.

4285             We have been a success because we have made ourselves an important part of Grande Prairie community.  We have gotten a lot from the community but we also give a lot back.  Every year we contribute approximately $20,000 to minor hockey in Grande Prairie; open the doors to our facility for local, non‑profit groups to fundraise at our Storm games; find sponsor tickets for tickets for all minor hockey players in schools in the Peace Country; spread our players throughout the community to volunteer to help those in need and are involved in many other activities in our community.

4286             It has been the mandate of the Grande Prairie Storm that the community comes first.  That was never more evident than in the 2004 Junior A national championship, the Royal Bank Cup, which Grande Prairie hosted in 2004.  Profits from the Royal Bank Cup reached approximately $400,000.  None of that money was kept for general operations of the Storm.  It was all given back to the community.  Over 20 groups and organizations in Grande Prairie area, many of them non‑hockey related, were presented with the funds generated through the Storm's hosting of the Royal Bank Cup.

4287             Grande Prairie is one of the fastest growing cities in Canada.  We are still able to maintain the community pride and ownership because we support each other.  Local people shop at local  business and local business support local groups, organizations and teams like Grande Prairie Storm.

4288             Since the Storm was formed back in the mid‑1990s we have had a great relationship with our two local radio stations, Sun FM and Big Country XXFM.  They have supported the Storm not just through sponsorship avenues but by giving the team outstanding coverage through their news and sports department.  They have helped make us the number one entertainment draw in the Peace Country and we certainly appreciate it; support their bids to expand their operation in Grande Prairie.

4289             The Grande Prairie Hockey Team also feels comfortable in putting its support behind another local group, Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd.  We are very familiar with the Bear Creek group.  We have been very impressed how they have contributed both volunteerism and financially to many of the community events in Grande Prairie over the years.  They are a big part of Grande Prairie community and have proven track records when it comes to getting the job done and giving back to the community.

4290             Crude Communications Limited, locally owned and operated by Gord Gavin and Donna Pringle, both deemed very active in our community, has given us every indication that they want to become part of the Grande Prairie community, a bigger part of the Grande Prairie community.  Crude is the only applicant that has made a commitment to broadcasting Storm games if they are awarded the licence to set up shop in Grande Prairie.  We appreciate their commitment to the Storm.

4291             The Storm Hockey Club also wishes all applicants well.  We are prepared to work with whatever group is granted a licence and hope they become a successful part of the community we are so proud of.

4292             Thanks very much.

4293             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Nordstrom.

4294             Commissioner Cugini.

4295             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Good morning.

4296             Mr. Johnson, you said you organize hundreds of events ‑‑

4297             MR. JOHNSON:  Yes.

4298             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  ‑‑ throughout the Grande Prairie area, and is that on a yearly basis?

4299             MR. JOHNSON:  No, no, over the last 15 years.

4300             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And on a yearly basis how many events would you put on?

4301             MR. JOHNSON:  I have two outdoor music events but then, again, involvement in the restaurant music venue anywhere from 20 to 70.

4302             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And those two outdoor events ‑‑

4303             MR. JOHNSON:       Yes.

4304             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  ‑‑ they are primarily rock music?

4305             MR. JOHNSON:  Yes, yes, one in ‑‑

4306             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And ‑‑

4307             MR. JOHNSON:  I'm sorry. ‑‑

4308             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Go ahead.

4309             MR. JOHNSON:  One in particular, the event called "Summerslam" which will be held in three weeks is now a premier event in Canada.  It will have perhaps 16 to 20,000 people throughout the weekend and it is my primary business during the year.

4310             The rest of it, to me, is just supporting the other music events and supporting music itself to stay in the business, but this is my Stanley Cup, is this Summerslam Sports Weekend, again, three weeks from tomorrow.

4311             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  And who are the three headliners?

4312             MR. JOHNSON:  This year there is actually five headliners.  The event has become so popular.  Our Lady Peace is the Saturday night.  Friday night is Blue Rodeo.  Thursday night is Theory of a Dead Man and David Wilcox, Matt Mays & El Torpedo, Stabilo.  If you look at any Top 40 right now, whether it be country, classic rock, modern rock, alternative rock, one of those bands is in there somewhere.

4313             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Those are pretty big names.

4314             MR. JOHNSON:  Those are big names.

4315             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  In Canadian music.

4316             MR. JOHNSON:  Yes, thank you.  I appreciate ‑‑

4317             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  How do you get them to Grande Prairie?

4318             MR. JOHNSON:  Well, hard work; hard work and a lot of years of battling it out.  So I understand this process very well.  I understand how important it is and I will pay the price for sitting at this seat, believe me.

4319             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Thank you.  Thank you very much for your contribution.

4320             MR. JOHNSON:  Yes.  You are very welcome.

4321             COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  That's all, Mr. Chair.

4322             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4323             Mr. Johnson, you have mentioned you have been approached by numerous groups and you choose to support the local owners.

4324             MR. JOHNSON:  That's correct.

4325             THE CHAIRPERSON:  So you have been talking with most of ‑‑ which format will complement the market offering in Grande Prairie because we have been told by numerous applicants if not all that there was place for more than one station in the market?

4326             So from your own perspective which format will be a good complement to the current radio offering?

4327             MR. JOHNSON:  Two, two.  One is absolutely classic rock.  There is no question about it because of the age demographics in Grande Prairie right now.  And the other one truly is community oriented.

4328             Radio in Grande Prairie is truly the glue that keeps us together and it is so important.  Our town is changing unlike anything you guys have probably ever seen and we truly need a community voice, absolutely, so important.  And because business is so big and it's very difficult to advertise if you are a small owner/operator of a company but we need a community‑based radio station.

4329             And then as far as the music is concerned, because I know I listen to the radio living in Grande Prairie not for music ‑‑ I listen to find out what is going on, you know, what is Rick Nordstrom doing with the Grande Prairie Storm?  I am very involved in that particular organization and have been.  That's why I listen to the radio.

4330             I also listen to hear what else is going on in the music world.  So classic rock right now is ‑‑ it's crucial we have a classic rock station and it's also crucial we have a community‑run station.

4331             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4332             Miss ‑‑ I don't remember your name.  I apologize, but ‑‑

4333             MS FORD:  It's Amanda Ford.

4334             THE CHAIRPERSON:  You have heard some ‑‑ Grande Prairie College, the professor articulated ‑‑ Mr. Crerar talking earlier about the disconnect between, well, the adults and the younger generation and I had a question for him saying that ‑‑ and you are here representing the students that there is an understanding ‑‑ it is measured that the younger generation have stopped listening to radio, rather they use their MP3s, iPods or other internet or other means to get their music and now you are here representing the students saying that they support Crude Communication.

4335             What kind of comments could you make and what could you tell the broadcasters that will allow them to recapture the younger audience?

4336             MS FORD:  Well, there is no doubt that students and people in general do love music.  I believe that students use the radio and even television to figure out what new music has come about and then they do go to other sources like the internet and download that music so they can use it on their, you know, MP3 players.  It is just an easier way to carry around their music because you can hold more on it.

4337             I don't find that a lot of students mainly use radio for finding out what is going on in the world or the rest of Canada.  They will tune in to the local news reports or in the newspapers to find that out.  They would rather just hear strictly music with no commercials and that's what would make them happy.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4338             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  No problem there, Mr. Chairman.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4339             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  We just take out the word "commercial" from commercial radio and we are ready to rock and roll.

4340             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, gentlemen.  Thank you.

4341             And we will go to the last intervenors.

4342             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4343             And just for the record, Miss Bonnie Bell from the Grande Prairie Friendship Centre will not be appearing today.

4344             Therefore, we now call on the last appearing intervenor, Mr. Paul Husband from the Progressive Marketing Alliance to come forward, please.

‑‑‑ Pause

4345             THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Paul Husband, if you are present in the room?

4346             Then I gather that this is the list of our appearing intervenors for the day, Mr. Chairman.  This completes Phase III of the process.

4347             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

4348             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

4349             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And before moving to Phase IV we will take a 15‑minute break.

4350             So we will be back at 11 o'clock.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1042 / Suspension à 1042

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1108 / Reprise à 1108

4351             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4352             We will now proceed to Phase IV in which applicants can reply to all interventions that were submitted on their application.  Applicants will appear in reverse order.

4353             I will then ask Standard Radio Inc. to come forward for their reply.

‑‑‑ Pause

4354             THE SECRETARY:  For the purposes of our transcript, I would appreciate it if you could identify yourself and you have 10 minutes for your presentation.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4355             MR. FORBES:  I am Marty Forbes, Vice‑President, General Manager of Standard Radio, Edmonton, and have nothing further to say.

4356             Thank you.

4357             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Forbes.

4358             Mrs. Secretary.

4359             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

4360             I will now proceed with Crude Communications Inc. and, again, if you could introduce yourself before speaking.  Thank you.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4361             MR. GUAVIN:  Good morning.  My name is Gordon Gauvin.  I am with Crude Communications.

4362             I would just like to thank my intervenors for travelling all the way down from Grande Prairie.  It is 465 kilometres away.  It's a bit of a trip for all of them and I appreciate that.

4363             I would also like to thank the Commission staff and the Commissioners for being part of this process.  It has been very interesting and very educational.  Thank you.

4364             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Gauvin.

4365             Mrs. Secretary.

4366             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

4367             I would now call on Vista Radio Ltd. to come forward.

4368             I gather they are not in the room.  Then we will proceed with Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Ltd.

‑‑‑ Pause

4369             THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Arnish, you have 10 minutes for your presentation.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4370             MR. ARNISH:  Thank you, Madam Secretary, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, Commission staff.

4371             I will be reasonably brief here this morning.

4372             Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, we are pleased to have this opportunity to comment on interventions filed in this proceeding.  There was one negative intervention filed against ours and all other applications in this proceeding by the Canadian Independent Recording Industry Association.  We provided a written response to that intervention in a letter dated June 8th, 2006.

4373             In our appearance in Phase I of these proceedings the Chair requested further comment from us in response to the comments of CIRPA that our Save the Music Foundation funding would be better suited if provided to the CARAS MusiCan program.

4374             As indicated in our written response, we do not believe, based on discussions with music educators in western Canada and in the markets we are applying for licences in that the MusiCan program will meet the targeted objective of the Save the Music Foundation of creating funding in western Canada for support of the best of the best of high school music programs and other initiatives which the fund will support in western Canada.

4375             Mr. Chairman, it is somewhat frustrating to us that CIRPA would be criticizing a program which so clearly attempts to meet their objective of supporting music education in Canada.  The Commission, we believe, should encourage the efforts of broadcasters and all players in the system to come up with effective approaches to talent development which may be of local or regional relevance and importance.

4376             Commissioner Cram asked us yesterday why money would be available to British Columbia from the initiative and we responded that some of the funding for the initiative would come from benefits related to transactions in British Columbia.  Our concern highlights the point.  We are trying to return some of our CTD funding to communities and regions which we are being licensed to serve.  That is why it is important that the fund be headquartered in the region of Canada that we operate in.  We do not believe that in all cases Toronto‑based organizations should have a monopoly on the management and distribution of CTD funding.

4377             While we do recognize the value in some areas of a consolidation of CTD funding, in this situation building relationships with highly successful agencies like the Rocky Mountain Music Festival will establish a unique, progressive and, we expect, highly successful catalyst to Canadian talent development which we believe the Commission will be proud to have participated in creating.

4378             There are no Canadians more passionate about Canadian talent development than music educators such as Mr. Chapman and Mr. Connell who appeared in support of our Save the Music initiative.  We are pleased to have their support for our vision and commitment to this initiative.

4379             I would like to quote from the letter written in support of our application by Edmonton‑based committee and independent recording artist Samantha King:

"My heart is completely involved in standing behind and endorsing the Save the Music Foundation for high school and music programs in Alberta.  Save the Music Foundation is an extremely vital tool that addresses Canadian talent development at its most infinite grassroots stage and it will raise the quality of music education in western Canada." (As read)

4380             In closing, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, we would like to thank the numerous individuals, businesses, elected officials and community groups which took the time to write letters, sign petitions and commit to appear before the Commission to convey their support for our application for a new licence to serve the community of Grande Prairie.

4381             And, finally, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, I wish to thank you and Commission staff for running a great hearing.  It has been very fair and very effective.

4382             Thank you very much.

4383             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Arnish.

4384             Miss Secretary.

4385             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

4386             I would now call on the next applicants, Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, to come forward.

‑‑‑ Pause

4387             THE SECRETARY:  Again, if you could please identify yourself for the transcript and you have 10 minutes for your presentation.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4388             MR. GRAY:  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission and staff.

4389             My name is Walter Gray.  I am a director with Sun Country Cablevision on behalf of a radio company to be incorporated at Grande Prairie.

4390             I appear this morning to set the record straight as a result of comments that were made by Crude Communications during Phase II.  We weren't in the room at the time.  The transcript is not yet available.  However, we have been told that we were characterized as not having told the truth about our interest in doing Grande Prairie Storm hockey broadcasts.

4391             What I would like to do is re‑read the seven or eight lines from our prepared script heard yesterday concerning the comments we made.  Starting out we said:

"We want to broadcast the Grande Prairie Storm Junior A hockey games.  We have a letter on file with the Commission from the business manager of the team following our meeting with the manager coach of the Storm, expressing interest in our desire to do those broadcasts." (As read)

4392             And then we said:

"It's win‑win.  It adds remarkably to community spirit. Frankly, we are surprised that the games are not now being broadcast." (As read)

4393             We never did state or say that there was any contract.  I can tell you that we met with the manager coach, told him that we did have an interest in doing the broadcasts and should we be licensed we would like to enter into arrangements with them.

4394             At this hearing we heard that there is a second applicant and only two applicants only, of course, interested in doing the broadcasts and the other applicant is of course Crude Communications.

4395             This morning we heard a volunteer director just a few moments ago, Mr. Nordstrom, state before the Commission that only Crude Communications had showed interest in doing the Storm broadcast and, of course, that is not correct.

4396             So I just wanted to set the record straight.  Sun Country is very community minded, is very interested in doing the hockey play by play and should we be licensed we would then make the case that 100,000 watt FM station could probably reach a larger audience than a 50‑watt station.

4397             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Gray.  We also heard from Mr. Nordstrom that whoever gets the licence they are interested in having the Storm hockey games being broadcast.  So they are showing an interest to be broadcast not only by yourselves or Crude or by anybody else.

4398             So thank you for coming.

4399             Mr. Langford.

4400             MR. GRAY:  Thank you.

4401             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you.

4402             Just to complete the record on this, do you have the letter with you from the Storm that you referred to?

4403             MR. GRAY:  Yes, I do, actually and it's on your file.  But I have it here, yes.

4404             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Perhaps you could just ‑‑ it looks short from here ‑‑ could you just read it into the record today?

4405             MR. GRAY:  Yes, I could do that.

4406             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you.

4407             MR. GRAY:  "The Grande Prairie Storm

Junior A Hockey Club supports the Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. bid for a radio broadcasting licence for Grande Prairie.  As you are no doubt aware, Grande Prairie is one of the most viable and fastest growing areas in Canada.  With a population expected to be 75,000 or more in the next five years there is a need for more radio stations in our city.  Our citizens are served by two stations at present, Sun FM and Big Country XX and they both do a fine job but the market is certainly ready for more radio.

We are confident Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. will make a commitment to the local sporting community which includes the Grande Prairie Storm and provide listeners with local sports news they want to hear.

We look forward to being able to turn our radios on in the near future and hear a third or perhaps even a fourth radio station." (As read)

4408             And this was signed by the business manager, Mr. Don Moon.  The meeting we had where we asked for a letter of support but specifically did not ask to make reference to the hockey play by play was with their coach manager on May the 18th.

4409             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you very much.  That completes the record on that for my point of view.

4410             Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4411             MR. GRAY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission.  We are very impressed with the proceedings that occurred here.  You are obviously well researched; interested in helping the Grande Prairie market and so are we.

4412             Thank you very much.

4413             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Gray.

4414             Miss Secretary.

4415             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

4416             I would now call on Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd. to come forward.

‑‑‑ Pause

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4417             MR. TRUHN:  Thank you, Madam Secretary, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission.  I don't really have anything to add other than to say thanks for the opportunity to make our presentation.  It was a new experience for me.

4418             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Could you identify yourself?

4419             MR. TRUHN:  Sorry, Ken Truhn, President of Bear Creek Broadcasting.

4420             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.

4421             MR. TRUHN:  Thank you.

4422             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Truhn.

4423             Miss Secretary.

4424             THE SECRETARY:  We will continue with O.K. Radio Group Ltd., if you would come forward, please?

‑‑‑ Pause

4425             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Bedore, could you introduce your team?

4426             MR. BEDORE:  Certainly.  My name is Tom Bedore.  I am the General Manager of Sun FM in Grande Prairie.

4427             To my far left is Murray Driver, our Sales Manager; and Stuart Morton who is the Operations Manager of our Edmonton radio station, Sonic FM.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4428             MR. BEDORE:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission and thank you for allowing us to have one final word.

4429             Just before we start our brief interventions I would like to report back on our homework.  You asked us to go over the spoken word.  We proposed to verify the amount of spoken word each week.  We have provided a spread sheet to the secretary of the hearing, Madam Boulet, that outlines the spoken word programs.

4430             Mr. Langford, you were correct.  We had short changed ourselves.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4431             MR. BEDORE:  The chart shows that regularly scheduled spoken word makes up eight hours and 44 minutes per week and this consists of four hours, 25 minutes of news information and our scheduled newscast; two hours and 50 minutes during our specialty music programs and a minimum of one hour, 29 minutes of specific spoken word features.  And then, in addition, there are a number of seasonal features that we hadn't talked about that would add at least another 20 minutes of spoken word to the week.  Finally, we estimate that the jock talk would make up another two hours per week.

4432             Now, I would like to address the interventions to our application.  We were pleased to note that there were no interventions opposing our application.

4433             Rather, there were a large number of supporting intervenors, over 400 letters or petitions and five others that took the time to appear at the hearing and we would like to thank them for their support.  They came from a wide spectrum of the Grande Prairie community and collectively they expressed their appreciation for the strong community involvement of the Sun FM team over the many years we have served this community; their support for the current strong news offerings we provide for our proposals to broaden and deepen our coverage, the need for a new rock station in Grande Prairie that would reflect not only how young our community is with a median age of 29.7 in 2001, but also the growing music scene; their support for our Canadian talent development initiatives that they believe are appropriate to the emerging artists in our community and also the need for a new radio program the reflects the aboriginal community and gives exposure to aboriginal rock musicians and; finally, their appreciation of our efforts to support worthwhile projects in our community and in particular for our new initiative with a diverse city project to spread their message of tolerance.

4434             Mr. Chair, there was one comment provided by CIRPA that raised a number of points including a criticism of our application.  I would like to point out that our application meets many of the suggestions that they raise.  They suggest that a higher level of Canadian content is better.  We propose 40 percent Canadian content.  They called for a diversity of format.  Our proposed rock format with an emphasis on new music will provide significant diversity.  They would like to see support for industry associations including FACTOR and ARIA and we have earmarked monies for both of those organizations.

4435             This being said, they did criticize our Rock the Peace initiative.  In part, their opposition is based upon a misunderstanding of what we propose.  For example, they seem to believe that we will be collecting revenues from sales of CDs.  They seem to believe we see this initiative as a means into the record business.  We are sorry if we were not clear in our application.  We have no intent of selling records or of entering their business.

4436             What we will do is provide young Grande Prairie musicians with a recording they can use as a calling card with radio stations and with record companies as they seek to progress in the industry.

4437             Contrary to what CIRPA seems to believe, our Rock the Peace initiative in conjunction with Peace Starts at Home has struck a chord with the music community in the Peace Country.  As you heard in Phase III; that combined with our ARIA and FACTOR contributions that target northern Alberta, we hope that they will help to make sure that the next Nickelback does in fact come out of our part of the province.

4438             CIRPA has often been on record stating the necessity for airplay for new Canadian artists.  Our 40 percent Cancon, our commitment to new music, the highest of any applicant here, our funding initiatives and our market‑proven band of the month initiative fully meet these criterion.

4439             This morning one intervenor stated that Grande Prairie needs a community station to reflect our community.  We must disagree.  We already have two community stations in Grande Prairie, the 25 men and women at our station and the over 20 people at the Pattison station all have long and deep roots in our community.  I know because I have worked at both stations.

4440             I know the degree at which the ownership and management of both stations support our community involvement.  The supporting intervenors this morning clearly demonstrated the appreciation Peace Country residents have for all our collective efforts.  I believe more people listen to us but I think they are good too.

4441             The research that we submitted shows clearly that residents of Grande Prairie and area are very satisfied with the local news and information available to them.  What they are also telling us, though, is that they need new musical choices and the expanded service that we promise to deliver to them.

4442             Thank you for your attention through this hearing and the opportunity to present our application to you.  We would be pleased to answer any questions you might have.

4443             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Cram.

4444             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you.

4445             I was impressed with the fact that you already have the station on the internet.  In the nightmare scenario that we would not licence you on the airwaves would you keep this station up on the internet?

4446             MR. BEDORE:  We certainly plan to keep it running.  I mean, the demand for it has been huge so we have no intention of stopping now, particularly because the one initiative that we have started with the diversity project we have created these vignettes that are airing right now and we are getting quite a reaction to them.  We plan to air them on our existing station as well in the future but for a new station that's going to be our focus.

4447             We really think that we can have an impact on racism and discrimination in Grande Prairie.   You might say that I am naïve to believe that this can actually happen but I firmly believe that we can have an impact.

4448             So yes, we will keep them on the virtual radio station.

4449             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you.

4450             MR. BEDORE:  You are welcome.

4451             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4452             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Langford.

4453             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4454             You paint yourself as so responsive, you and the Pattison Group to your communities, and it is impressive and you have a long record.  I was wondering, I thought maybe you might be responding to the student association, announcing you were going to drop all advertising and play only music.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4455             MR. BEDORE:  I had no idea that's all we needed to do and everybody would listen to us.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4456             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  It would be so easy.  You would lead the ratings in no time.

4457             MR. BEDORE:  Yes, sometimes the answer is right there in front of you.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4458             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  And all you would have to do ‑‑ think of the money you could make working at Tim Horton's to try to make ends meet.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4459             MR. BEDORE:  You know, lately I have been thinking a lot about Tim Horton's.

4460             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  You have got to think outside the box.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4461             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you very much.  Those are my comments, I suppose.

4462             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Bedore.  Thank you.

4463             Miss Secretary.

4464             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

4465             I would now call on Newcap Inc. to come forward with their reply.

‑‑‑ Pause

4466             THE SECRETARY:  Again, if you could introduce yourself for the transcript, please?  Thank you.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4467             MR. MAHEU:  Thank you very much, Madam Secretary.  Mark Maheu, Chief Operating Officer for Newcap, and Rob Steele, Chief Executive Officer of Newcap Radio.

4468             Mr. Chair, members of the Commission and Commission staff, thank you very much for the opportunity to appear in Phase IV.  We really have not very much more to offer other than to take this opportunity on the record to thank those who intervened on behalf of Newcap Radio's classic hits proposal for the Grande Prairie marketplace.  We look forward to the opportunity should we be granted a licence to get it on quickly and to do a good job and add to the diversity of the marketplace.

4469             And other than that, if you have any questions we would be happy to answer them.

4470             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Maheu.  Thank you, Mr. Steele.

4471             Miss Secretary.

4472             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4473             I would now call on Allan Hunsperger, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, to come forward.

‑‑‑ Pause

4474             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Hunsperger, at your convenience.  Please introduce the member of your party.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4475             MR. HUNSPERGER:  I am Allan Hunsperger and this is our Network Program Director, Mr. Malcolm Hunt.

4476             Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, Commission staff, we are here in Phase IV to hand in our homework as requested by Commissioner Langford during Phase I.  Hopefully, you will give us a passing grade.

4477             I would like to clarify our current practices to deal with balance and then outline an additional proposal.

4478             Firstly, let me state that we propose to broadcast six brokered spoken word programs per week in Grande Prairie, totalling 15 hours per week.  There are many, many other such programs available that we choose not to air due to the content or quality.  Many of these brokered programs are aired on other stations which are not subject to the religious balance requirement.  This is an example of how we carefully screen our programs to ensure that no offensive content is broadcast.  We also receive daily cue sheets for our brokered programming.

4479             As we indicated on Monday, we will set up a telephone line to record and air listener comments.  This will help us to achieve our balance goals.  However, as Commissioner Langford pointed out on Monday, we recognize that there is no guarantee there will be sufficient listener comment to address both sides of any issue.  In such cases we have committed to reach out into the community for alternative voices.  In the case of Grande Prairie, the multicultural society and the community college should be two of many useful resources for such alternative views.

4480             Additionally, because we have operations in Calgary and Edmonton, we have all the additional resources available in these large centres to draw on if we are unable to find suitable expertise in Grande Prairie.

4481             MR. HUNT:  Since Monday we have done considerable research regarding the national distribution of the six brokered programs we propose to air in Grande Prairie.  We have been able to nail down this research with respect to five of the programs but no data was available for the sixth, "In Touch".

4482             The chart we have distributed to you illustrates the five other programs received widespread airplay throughout Canada, as you can see on page 3.  "Focus on the Family" is aired on 122 stations across Canada.  The others are aired on 73, 57, 29 and 29 stations respectively.  The majority of these stations are not classified as religious by the Commission and have no specific balance requirements except those expected of all broadcasters by the Broadcast Act.

4483             We have also managed to research a number of recent Commission decisions dealing with religious stations and we were somewhat surprised to discover that in some cases the Commission has attached a COL requiring a specific minimum amount of balance programming per week.  We have never discussed the COL with the Commission whether at public hearings or during paper processes.

4484             However, the most recent we could find was Decision 2006‑111 dated 29 March 2006 wherein United Christian Broadcasters Canada was approved for a specialty FM in Chatham, Ontario.  Chatham's population is approximately 45,000 which is very similar to the size of Grande Prairie.  The Chatham station has allocated 25 percent of its time, total air time, to the broadcast of religious spoken word programming.  Our application allocates 12 percent of this type of programming.

4485             In the case of Chatham only the general COL was attached to the licence.  Given the similar size of the two markets and the fact that we are proposing to broadcast less than half of the spoken word brokered programming, we believe that we should be treated in the same manner as the Chatham station with respect to conditions of licence.

4486             We again reiterate that we feel we have an excellent track record with respect to avoiding controversial topics, as evidenced by the fact that none of our stations have ever received a complaint about balance or any other matter.  That notwithstanding, after much deliberation we are prepared to commit to produce and air daily in 60 to 90‑second vignettes about other world religions.

4487             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Langford.

4488             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you, gentlemen.

4489             Just one thing I want to be clear on because I don't have the complete library of our own decisions here behind me.

4490             When you say that the Chatham station ‑‑ I'm just trying to find it ‑‑ you say only the general COL was attached to their licence, and what are you referring to as the general COL?

4491             MR. HUNT:  Conditional licence to follow the Religious Broadcast Act, I believe.

4492             THE CHAIRPERSON:  That would be the policy.

4493             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  That policy and it's my impression that that is precisely what we were asking you to do and now we may ‑‑ I or one of my colleagues may have misspoken but did you understand we were asking for something more than that?

4494             MR. HUNSPERGER:  No, but we have already agreed to that.

4495             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Right.

4496             MR. HUNSPERGER:  Yes, absolutely.

4497             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Yes, just trying to figure out, as my kids would say, why are you making such a big deal about this?

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4498             MR. HUNSPERGER:  Well, we wanted to do as thorough ‑‑ much in our homework as possible.

4499             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Well, you had an "A" until you got to that paragraph but I will have to give it some thought.  No, I am joking.  I understand completely.

4500             So you are, in other words, quite comfortable with what you call the general COL regarding religious balanced programming should it apply to you.  I mean, if you do straight music and no spoken word it is not going to be applicable to you anyway.

4501             MR. HUNSPERGER:  Yes, absolutely.

4502             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  So you are completely comfortable with that and willing to adhere to it?

4503             MR. HUNSPERGER:  Yes.

4504             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Thank you very much.

4505             MR. HUNSPERGER:  Thank you.

4506             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  Those are my questions, Mr. Chair.

4507             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Hunsperger.

4508             Miss Secretary.

4509             MR. HUNSPERGER:  May I finish?

4510             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, sure.

4511             MR. HUNSPERGER:  Thank you.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

4512             COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:  I beg your pardon.  I thought you had completed.  I am sorry for interrupting.

4513             MR. HUNSPERGER:  That's fine.  I was finished on the balance issue.

4514             I just want to thank all our intervenors who wrote and sent emails on our behalf in support of the stations.

4515             We want to thank the three gentlemen who got up early this morning, and we want to thank Mr. Peter Tétrault who flew them down here and appeared before us this morning and I want to thank them for taking time out of their day.

4516             We also want to thank the other broadcasters during this hearing process who have expressed a positive intervention on our support, and we appreciate that.

4517             We want to thank the Commission and the Commission staff for all their work, and thank you very much.

4518             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Hunsperger.

4519             Miss Secretary.

4520             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4521             I would like to ask the applicant 1097282 Alberta Ltd. to come forward for their reply.

‑‑‑ Pause

4522             THE SECRETARY:  And again, if you could introduce yourself for the record?  Thank you.

4523             THE CHAIRPERSON:  So at your convenience, Mr. Singer.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

4524             MR. SINGER:  Good morning.  My name is Ken Singer.  I am Vice‑President and General Manager of Radio CJVR Ltd.

4525             First of all, I would like to thank the Chairman, Commissioners, CRTC staff for what has been a very professional and fair hearing thus far.  We appreciate the opportunity to participate in Phase IV.

4526             We would also like to note that, Commissioner Langford, we handed in our assignment on Tuesday regarding spoken word initiatives and if appropriate I would answer any questions on that document at this time.

4527             We would also like to thank the intervenors who filed letters of support for this application in Grande Prairie and just generally thank the support of the Commission and hopefully we have supplied the answers you are looking for, and we thank you for the opportunity.

4528             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Singer.

4529             This completes Phase IV of the portion of the hearing regarding Grande Prairie.

4530             We will now hear the first applicant for Fort McMurray.

4531             Miss Secretary.

4532             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4533             I would now ask the numbered company 1182743 Alberta Ltd. to come forward for their presentation.

4534             THE CHAIRPERSON:  While this group comes to the table we will take a five‑minute break.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1135 / Suspension à 1135

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1147 / Reprise à 1147

4535             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order, please.

4536             Please be seated.

4537             Mrs. Secretary, could you call the first applicant for the Fort McMurray portion of this hearing?

4538             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4539             We will now proceed with Item 11 of the agenda which is an application by the numbered company 1182743 Alberta Ltd. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Fort McMurray.

4540             The new station would operate on frequency 94.3 MHz (channel 232B) with an effective radiated power of 20,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 54 metres).

4541             Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Paul Larsen who will introduce his colleagues, and you will have 20 minutes for your presentation.

4542             Mr. Larsen.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

4543             MR. LARSEN:  Thank you, Madam Secretary.

4544             Mr. Chairman, Commissioners and CRTC staff, good morning.  My name is Paul Larsen and we are very excited to present our application for a new FM radio station to serve Fort McMurray.  Before we start our presentation I will briefly introduce you to our panel.

4545             To my right is Rick Volpati.  Rick is a 20‑year radio veteran whose experience ranges from on‑air announcer, creative and production manager and program director.  Rick spent the past 14 years here in Alberta, working for Corus and Newcap in Calgary.  If licensed, Rick will join our company as Director of Programming.

4546             Next to Rick is Desiree Daniel.  Desiree grew up in a radio family so the business is in her blood, quite literally.  Her radio experience includes sales, marketing and promotions at Silk FM in Kelowna.  She previously owned her own company, coaching individuals and small business owners and is also a freelance writer.  If licensed, Desiree will join our company as Director of Marketing.

4547             To my left is Mary Mills.  Mary is the President of Norscot Holdings Ltd., my business partner in this application.  And next to Mary is Brenda Stonnell.  Brenda is Norscot's Chief Financial Officer.

4548             And, again, my name is Paul Larsen.  This is my twentieth year in radio.  I have held positions ranging from announcer to program director, general manager, and most recently president of six radio stations on Vancouver Island.  I am a 50 percent shareholder and president of our new company, 1182743 Alberta Ltd., and if licensed will return to Alberta where I spent 12 years of my career to head up our new company.

4549             In our presentation today, we will touch on the vibrant Fort McMurray economy, the need for a radio service targeting the 45‑plus population in Fort McMurray and area, and how our exciting new radio station will complement rather than compete with the existing stations and benefit Canadian recording artists, the Canadian radio industry and, most importantly, benefit the Fort McMurray community.

4550             This application is the result of our deep‑rooted passion for radio.  It was written entirely by us.  Everything presented are ideas conceived by the people sitting at this table and is the result of our collective and lengthy service in this great business.

4551             We strongly believe that the future of radio in Canada depends on innovative young new leaders stepping forward with creative and exciting applications such as this one we are about to present.

4552             MR. VOLPATI:  If licensed, our radio station will be called "The Lounge".

4553             The Lounge was inspired by the fact that many of the artists we will play are commonly labelled "lounge singers".  It's a flashback to the Las Vegas lounge scene of the sixties and seventies, which our target audience remembers fondly.

4554             We call our format "modern nostalgia".  Our format is not just old songs.  At least 50 percent of our music will be newer than 1981 to comply with the hit/non‑hit rules.  This exciting mix of new and old music creates an especially unique and exciting sound.

4555             Canadians are leading the way in the creation of this music style:  artists like Michael Bublé, Matt Dusk and Diana Krall.  Sadly, these great Canadian artists receive minimal airplay on radio, something we propose to fix.

4556             Of significance is the number of relatively unknown Canadian artists that will receive regular, prime‑time airplay on The Lounge, artists such as Dawn Aitken, Denzal Sinclaire, Andrea Menard, John Alcorn, Suzie Vinnick and there are many others that we don't have time to mention but named in our supplementary brief.

4557             The Lounge will also feature Canadian superstars such as Anne Murray, Gordon Lightfoot, Randy Bachman and Paul Anka who are still producing new music and touring.  Even though these names are instantly recognized, they too suffer from a lack of radio airplay.  The Lounge will play not only their established hits but also their new music.

4558             Canadian music will be predominantly featured in our programming, scheduled evenly throughout each hour.  We will play 40 percent Canadian content weekly and to ensure significant airplay of newer Canadian music, 50 percent of our Canadian songs will be released in 2000 or later.

4559             Of course, The Lounge will also feature international artists, many of them lesser‑known singers, again ensuring diversity, names like Steve Tyrell, Renee Olstead, Jamie Callum; not household names but exceptional new artists recording great music.

4560             The Lounge will feature well‑known artists who are re‑recording great standards and new songs in the "standards" style; artists like Rod Stewart, Natalie Cole, Harry Connick, Jr. and others.

4561             And we will play the artists who originated and pioneered this music style; Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole, Tony Bennett and many others.

4562             And we will play singers from the sixties, seventies and eighties, artists who despite their super star status receive very little airplay on radio, names like Barry Manilow, Barbara Streisand, Neil Diamond and others.  And again, we will play their new music in addition to the hits.

4563             The Lounge will blend these diverse music styles together to create an appealing mix of music, new and old, targeted to Fort McMurray's adult audience.

4564             MR. LARSEN:  The Lounge will bring a new information voice to Fort McMurray.  We will place a significant emphasis on spoken word relating to news, our music, the community and the lifestyle of Fort McMurray's adult population.

4565             If licensed, The Lounge will provide hourly, locally‑produced newscasts between six a.m. and six p.m. weekdays and eight a.m. to four p.m. on weekends.

4566             Our research showed the demand for news, particularly local news.  93.7 percent of respondents to our research said, "News and information specific to Fort McMurray is important" and we will provide it.

4567             In total, The Lounge will provide 93 newscasts per week, totalling four hours and 33 minutes.

4568             Other spoken word including weather and sports, oil and gas updates, market and business reports, arts and entertainment, will total another two hours and 30 minutes weekly.

4569             Fort McMurray's adult audience wants to hear about important topics such as municipal issues, cultural events, health and finance.  The Lounge will air a daily magazine program called "Fort McMurray at Noon" to address this need.

4570             The Lounge will also feature a one‑hour weekend lifestyle program called "Life on The Lounge".

4571             We will air "artist spotlights" five times daily, featuring artists in their own words, connecting directly with our audience.  At least 50 percent will be Canadian.

4572             The Lounge will feature old time radio shows nightly.

4573             Our spoken word will reflect Fort McMurray's diversity and provide listeners with a balance of news, entertainment and community information.

4574             Our spoken word programming totals 22 hours and 9 minutes weekly, approximately 18 percent of the broadcast week.

4575             On top of that will be announcer show prep, community ad‑libs and live interviews which will add even more spoken word dimension to The Lounge.

4576             We have made this strong commitment to spoken word based on what Fort McMurray adults told us in our research and because we believe it is the content that airs "between the records" that makes a radio station truly unique and engaging.

4577             MS DANIEL:  It's amazing how radio has the power to work so closely with the community.  The Lounge will be highly supportive of local events, charities, the arts and entertainment community and non‑profit organizations around Fort McMurray and area.

4578             Fort McMurray has a vibrant arts community.  There are many annual festivals and events and The Lounge will be front and centre, broadcasting live from each of them.  Some of these events include:  Fort McMurray Literacy Festival; Many Tribes, One Nation; Canada Day festivities; annual Blueberry Festival; the Interplay Festival; Harvest Carnival, Heritage Days; Festival of Trees and many others.

4579             Fort McMurray is also home to the Keyano Theatre which has been the centre of arts and culture in the region for 25 years.  Keyano Theatre offers a four‑play subscription season along with the Syncrude Arts Alive series which features national and international performers throughout the year.

4580             The Lounge will play a vital role through public service announcements to assist these important organizations and festivals with awareness and fundraising.

4581             We strongly believe that radio is a public service and The Lounge will take that role very seriously.

4582             MR. LARSEN:  84.4 percent of the adults we surveyed said "exposure and promotion of Canadian artists" is important.

4583             Our Canadian talent development starts first and foremost with airplay.

4584             A cornerstone of our indirect CTD initiatives is a commitment to play new Canadian music.  We propose that at least 50 percent of our Canadian content will be songs released in 2000 or later.  This guarantees airplay of a high percentage of newer Canadian songs and artists.  This initiative is unique and exclusive to our application.

4585             Further, to demonstrate our commitment to Canadian music, we will play 40 percent Canadian content over the broadcast week.

4586             Canadian artists have told us clearly what they need from radio is very simple:  airplay and exposure.  The Lounge will ensure this through these two commitments.

4587             We are firm believers in Canadian talent development, both direct financial support and, equally important, non‑monetary means.

4588             Our direct CTD contribution will be $87,500 over the initial licence term which is a significant amount of money for a new company.

4589             100 percent of our direct CTD will stay in the Fort McMurray region.  Our annual proposals include:

4590             Post‑secondary music and journalism bursaries for Fort McMurray students;

4591             Purchase of music instruments for Fort McMurray schools;

4592             Funding to FACTOR, which Canadian artists told us is a critical source of funding for development of their music, and our FACTOR contributions will come back to northern Alberta artists;

4593             Our original song competition will be of direct benefit to local and regional artists;

4594             And we have outlined in our application support for a number of other Fort McMurray initiatives.

4595             Our direct CTD commitments will be supported by significant on air promotional support, website exposure and other marketing.

4596             MR. VOLPATI:  We also propose two significant indirect CTD initiatives; first is "The Indie Lounge", a weekly one‑hour program focusing on independent Canadian music.  While we will be highly supportive of Canadian music throughout our programming, The Indie Lounge will give us a platform to explore artists more thoroughly.

4597             Second, is a unique educational proposal which we call "Future Broadcasters".  If licensed, The Lounge will place students in actual paid jobs that will assist them in their education and development of their radio skills.  These positions will include on air, news and production.

4598             Alberta's leading post‑secondary broadcast education institutions have reviewed our plan and will work with us to make our Future Broadcasters initiative a reality.  Our industry is facing a shortage of skilled performers, created in large part by the elimination of positions in favour of voice tracking and automation.  We are committed to helping replenish the pool of future broadcasters through this initiative.

4599             MS DANIEL:  Fort McMurray is a culturally‑diverse city.  It is home to one of the most northern Muslim mosques in the world, a Canadian Chinese school and an aboriginal friendship centre.

4600             The Multicultural Association of Fort McMurray is an umbrella organization which promotes ethnic diversity.  In addition, there are over a dozen individual organizations that promote and offer activities and services relating to multicultural interests within Fort McMurray.

4601             The Lounge has already reached out to Fort McMurray's ethnic population and if licensed we will ensure that our programming is inclusive of Fort McMurray's entire population.

4602             Our news department will take into account the ethnic diversity of Fort McMurray and establish contact with the city's cultural communities to ensure The Lounge includes their news in our programming.

4603             Fort McMurray has a rich First Nations history.  We will make a strong effort to foster a cooperative and open relationship with the aboriginal populations in the region.

4604             Our music format lends itself perfectly to reflecting cultural diversity.  The vast and varied music styles that comprise The Lounge include artists and musicians from every background and region of Canada and beyond.  We will encourage Canadian artists of all backgrounds to submit new music for airplay consideration.

4605             MR. LARSEN:  Fort McMurray's economy is unlike any other, driven by the oil sands.  Some $54 billion in oil sands projects alone are expected to be completed by 2011.  The oil sands are expected to generate nearly two million barrels of crude oil per day, representing more than half of Canada's projected total crude oil production.  By 2020 that total is predicted to double.

4606             Common economic indicators such as GDP, income levels and employment in the region are off the map, well ahead of national averages.  However, this is due mainly to the disproportionately high weight the oil sands projects have in the economic picture of the region.  This does makes it difficult to analyze the true economy of the region, so one has to take the "on the surface" numbers and do a deeper analysis to get a better understanding of the market.  We believe the economy is healthy and growing but are well aware that the red hot oil boom is not the entire picture.

4607             The rapid pace of economic and population change has taken some toll on the area, particularly in housing.  If licensed, we will be cognizant of the whole picture and do our best to help make the community an even better place to live and do business.

4608             Fort McMurray is growing rapidly due to the oil sands projects.  The population growth since 2001 has been staggering.  The 2001 federal census showed a total population of 41,466 for the regional municipality of Wood Buffalo which includes Fort McMurray.  The 2005 municipal census indicates that population has grown to 73, 176, a 76 percent increase in only five years.

4609             The largest percentage increases have occurred within the 45‑plus demographics, the target audience for The Lounge.

4610             As you can see on the graph on the screen, the 2005 municipal census shows the Wood Buffalo/Fort McMurray population of adults aged 45 and up totals 19,172 and increased 42.9 percent between 2002 and 2005.  By comparison, those aged zero to 44 increased only 20.3 percent.

4611             MR. VOLPATI:       Fort McMurray is served by two local commercial FM radio stations, CJOK and CKYX, both currently owned by the O.K. Radio Group.  There is also the CBC Radio One service and the provincial CKUA network.

4612             Ownership and market tuning is obviously dominated by O.K. Radio's two stations as they are really the only local choice.  According to our research study, 60.2 percent of those aged 35‑64 tune into those two stations.

4613             The Lounge will increase local tuning among adults, attracting listeners with a format that is not available today.  We will repatriate listeners from satellite and cable, internet radio, CDs and MP3s and people who have given up on radio because they have been unable to find their music.

4614             16.8 percent of the Fort McMurray adults we surveyed did not have a favourite radio station.  We believe The Lounge will be able to fill that void without impacting any existing stations.

4615             Our research shows that 90.5 percent of 36 to 64 year olds would definitely or probably listen to our proposed radio station, The Lounge, and of those 34.4 percent indicated the station would become their favourite.

4616             93.9 percent of those surveyed feel The Lounge would be a positive addition to the radio spectrum in Fort McMurray, regardless of whether they would or would not listen to the station themselves.

4617             MR. LARSEN:  Our group has given this application considerable thought and extensive planning.  We invested in research to double check our instincts.

4618             Our proposed station will bring a new format to Fort McMurray, one with virtually no overlap with existing stations.

4619             We will provide significant news and other spoken word elements that are important to our target audience.

4620             And we recognize that operating a radio station does mean operating a public service.  Community service will be the foundation upon which our company and our radio station is built.

4621             We realize that you do not often have a chance at this stage to hear the radio stations you are considering for licence.  With that in mind, we would like to use the last three minutes of our presentation to play you a brief sample of The Lounge 94.3.

‑‑‑ Audio presentation / Présentation audio

4622             MR. LARSEN:  That audio sample meets every CRTC regulation.  It was 47 percent hit, 53 percent non‑hit, 40 percent Canadian content and 50 percent of the Canadian songs were from 2000 or later per our unique initiative to play newer Canadian music.  The audio sample shows how well we will be able to mix our proposed music genres to create a really engaging radio station.

4623             We are proud of this application.  We feel it is unique and innovative, qualities that we think are essential to the future of Canadian radio.  We are young, experienced career broadcasters with 30 or more working years ahead of us to create compelling radio and we are hopeful to have that opportunity by being licensed to operate "The Lounge 94.3".

4624             Thank you for your attention and we are looking forward to your questions.

4625             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Larsen.

4626             I am asking Commissioner Cram to ask the first questions.

4627             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you.

4628             I will address my questions to you, Mr. Larsen, and then you can pass them over to wherever ‑‑ whomever you wish.

4629             MR. LARSEN:  Thank you.

4630             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  I wanted to talk about your target demo.  You say on the second‑last page of your presentation today that 90.5 percent of 35 to 64 year olds would definitely or probably listen to this radio station.  Is that your target demo or is your target demo 45‑plus?

4631             MR. LARSEN:  When we did the research we picked 35‑64 to have a target group that was identifiable as a BBM type of sell.  45‑plus would be our focused target.  We think we will have some 35 to 45 year olds that listen but they would not necessarily be our focus.

4632             So the focus of the radio station would be targeted to adults 45 and older.

4633             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.  And I am sure you have been listening to Grande Prairie.  What would be the median age?

4634             MR. LARSEN:  I have given that quite a bit of thought in the last couple of days.  I suspect somewhere around 48 to 49.

4635             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.  Male?  Female?

4636             MR. LARSEN:  We believe that this format is going to attract pretty much an even distribution of men and women.

4637             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.

4638             So if I have got it right, if you are going for 45 and over, you are essentially trying to attract the 19,172 people?

4639             MR. LARSEN:  Exactly.

4640             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Yes.

4641             MR. LARSEN:  We felt that there was enough population there looking at that total number who are not directly targeted by radio today and if we focus on that exclusive number we would have a good opportunity to attract a healthy proportion of them.

4642             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  And what about demographics in the future?  Have you looked at what would happen to this 45‑plus?  I mean, what are the projections?  I guess you can look at what it is now and what baby boomers are going into the 45‑plus.

4643             MR. LARSEN:  I think what is happening is exactly that, we are on the beginning of this dramatic shift in demographics and people are turning 45 and 50 and 60 at a rapid pace and it's been well publicized and that same phenomenon that is happening worldwide is certainly happening in Fort McMurray as well.  Any of the projections that we have looked at are general projections of how the overall population is anticipated to grow, but we suspect the 45‑plus portion would grow in proportion to the rest of the population.

4644             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.  You should be in Saskatchewan.  We have an over population of the higher, older demographics.

4645             So if you are looking at somebody 45 and over how many of those do you think would be attracted to some of this ‑‑ I will call it the "older music", Sinatra, Pat Boone?

4646             MR. LARSEN:  What we have kind of found is people that are 45 years old, even to a lot of them Frank Sinatra is new music because it's a little bit earlier than what they grew up with.  Definitely, the younger, even younger than 45 are attracted to a lot of this music, I think primarily because of the some young guys that remaking this music now like the Michael Bublés and Rod Stewart has now done four or five of his American Songbook revival records.

4647             So the old classics, the Sinatras and the Ella Fitzgeralds and the Ray Charles are really  kind of that spice that would happen in our format that are worldwide phenomenon artists that ‑‑ you know, like the Elvises.  There is nobody else like them so they will add a lot of spice and then the rest of the music is our glue.

4648             We have a healthy proportion of music from the seventies that that 45‑year old would have grown up with and the neat thing with a lot of the new music that is being redone is that these artists are redoing popular songs.  So it is brand new music from a brand new artist but there is still some familiarity there, which is important to that 45 and older crowd.

4649             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.

4650             Now, and I understand that you have actually ‑‑ you have this modern nostalgia format in Parksville, do you?

4651             MR. LARSEN:  In my current capacity as the President of Island Radio, Parksville is one of our radio stations.  It used to be a repeater.  We decided to super serve the adult population in that region by putting The Lounge on the air.  So yes, it is a current on‑the‑air station in Parksville, B.C. right now.

4652             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Now, the competitive situation is different from Parksville to Fort McMurray.  Do you think that would make a difference in the reaction to this kind of format?

4653             MR. LARSEN:  I don't think so.  I think that we will be relatively alone in the upper end of the spectrum, particularly the 45‑plus.  Certainly, a classic hits is a 35‑50, kind of playing in that same ‑‑ a lot of people call it the "sweet spot", I guess.

4654             But I think we have developed a format and we are the only applicant that is exclusively targeting that portion of the population.  So I think regardless in Fort McMurray, being on our own we will have a good opportunity to attract an audience.

4655             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Probably your main competition would be CBC, I guess, or CKUA?

4656             MR. LARSEN:  And the CKUA, I think that's likely the case.

4657             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  And the interesting thing about that is that your news is four hours and 33 minutes and you say "on the hour"?

4658             MR. LARSEN:  That's correct.  We would do news on the half‑hour and morning drive and then hourly through the balance of the day.

4659             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  And how long would that news package, exclusive of weather and sports and traffic be?

4660             MR. LARSEN:  The way I broke down our spoken word ‑‑ that is exclusively news?

4661             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Yes.

4662             MR. LARSEN:  Our morning newscasts would run four minutes in length, three‑minute updates at the bottom of the hour; the afternoon from midday period on would be two minutes, and then four minutes again at noon, four and five.  But that's exclusively news and then sports and weather would be an additional component.

4663             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Yes.

4664             Am I understanding, and you know, I am just saying my understanding is that the older you get the more interested you are in news and this doesn't sound like what this demographic would want in terms of news, that they would want something more?

4665             MR. LARSEN:  In fact, we have not commissioned our own research on this topic but there has been a lot of publicity about this exact topic in the industry trades lately, a lot of it coming from the United States but I think it is applicable here too.

4666             ABC Radio Networks in the United States just launched an FM news service and targeted to adults and their research showed that what the adults actually want is basically the headlines and the raw details and not the in‑depth information because they are still newspaper consumers, they are still television newscast watchers.  But throughout their workday when they are in the car they want to have a cursory overview of what is going on in the world on an hourly basic and, most importantly in a community like Fort McMurray, they want to know what is happening in their community, which would be our focus with our news.

4667             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.  So you are really targeting, if I can say, the non‑CBC types?

4668             MR. LARSEN:  I think what we would do is we would complement the CBC and the CKUA really nicely.  I think we would have a lot of cross‑tuning with those two networks and we would be an alternative choice for the consumer that perhaps wanted to hear music and some headlines and then they go back to the CBC for maybe some of the longer form programming.

4669             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  What would be your goal in terms of ‑‑ you say, you know, they want news and they want local news.  What would be your goal in terms of local news as a proportion of total news?

4670             MR. LARSEN:  We were asked that question in deficiencies and in our response I indicated 90 percent, which seems like a high number but we or, I guess, I should say "I", classify local news as not only what is happening in Fort McMurray but the overall Wood Buffalo region.  Northern Alberta we would classify as local news and then our regional would basically include southern Alberta, British Columbia; western Canada, national and international making up the balance.  So 90 sounds high off the top but it does include some regional.

4671             COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.  And how would you collect ‑‑ like you would probably subscribe to broadcast news but then how would you collect the Alberta news?

4672             MR. LARSEN:  A lot of news collectin