TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

             THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

               TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

             TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES AVANT

                CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

           ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

                          SUBJECT:

VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /

PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION

HELD AT:                              TENUE À:

Delta Regina                          Delta Regina

1919 Saskatchewan Drive               1919, promenade Saskatchewan

Regina, Saskatchewan                  Regina, Saskatchewan

October 30, 2006                      le 30 octobre 2006

Transcripts

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

Transcription

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

               Canadian Radio‑television and

               Telecommunications Commission

            Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

               télécommunications canadiennes

                 Transcript / Transcription

              VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /

            PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION

BEFORE / DEVANT:

Barbara Cram                      Chairperson / Présidente

Michel Arpin                      Vice-Chair, Broadcasting / Vice‑président, radiodiffusion

Rita Cugini                       Commissioner / Conseillère

Ronald Williams                   Commissioner / Conseiller

Joan Pennefather                  Commissioner / Conseillère

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

Chantal Boulet                    Secretary / Secrétaire

Leanne Bennett                    Legal Counsel /

Conseillère juridique

Lyne Cape                         Hearing Manager /

Gérante de l'audience

HELD AT:                          TENUE À:

Delta Regina                      Delta Regina

1919 Saskatchewan Drive           1919, promenade Saskatchewan

Regina, Saskatchewan              Regina, Saskatchewan

October 30, 2006                  le 30 octobre 2006

- iv -

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

                                                 PAGE / PARA

PHASE I

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

Newcap Inc.                                         7 /   35

Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited                    81 /  340

Golden West Broadcasting Ltd.                     115 /  551

Radio CJVR Ltd.                                   151 /  764

1182743 Alberta Ltd.                              209 / 1076

Vista Radio Ltd.                                  256 / 1291

Harvard Broadcasting Inc.                         300 / 1489

         Regina, Saskatchewan / Regina (Saskatchewan)

‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Monday, October 30, 2006

    at 0930 / L'audience débute le lundi

    30 octobre 2006 à 0930

LISTNUM 95 \l 11                THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order, please.  À l'ordre, s'il vous plaît.

LISTNUM 95 \l 12                Bonjours mesdames et messieurs.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13                Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Regina.  My name is Barbara Cram and I'm the Regional Commissioner for Manitoba and Saskatchewan for the CRTC.  I will be presiding over this hearing.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14                Joining me on the panel are my colleagues Michel Arpin, Vice‑Chair of Broadcasting; Rita Cugini, to my right, Regional Commissioner for Ontario; Ronald Williams, Regional Commissioner for Alberta, to Commissioner Cugini's right ‑‑ Alberta and the Northwest Territories; and Joan Pennefather, National Commissioner, on my far left.

LISTNUM 95 \l 15                The Commission team assisting us includes the Manager of Radio Applications and Policy Lyne Cape, who is also acting as Hearing Manager; Leanne Bennett, Legal Counsel; and Hearing Secretary Chantal Boulet.

LISTNUM 95 \l 16                Please speak with Ms Boulet if you have any questions with regard to the hearing procedures.

LISTNUM 95 \l 17                At this hearing we will study eight applications to operate a new English language commercial FM radio station in the Medicine Hat, Alberta, market.  We will also hear an application to change the frequency and authorized contours of radio station CJLT‑FM Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 18                The panel will then consider five applications to operate a new English language commercial FM radio station, and one application to operate a new English and Aboriginal language Native type B FM radio station in the Regina market.  As well, we will examine an application to amend the licence of the Native radio station, CJLR‑FM La Ronge, in order to add an FM transmitter in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 19                Finally, we will consider eight applications to operate a new English language commercial FM radio station, and one application to operate a new English and Aboriginal language Native type B FM radio station in the Saskatoon market.

LISTNUM 95 \l 110               Some applications are competing technically for the same frequencies in the Medicine Hat, Regina, and Saskatoon markets.

LISTNUM 95 \l 111               We will study the proposals in light of the cultural, economic and social objectives defined in The Broadcasting Act, and regulations flowing from it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 112               The panel will base its decision on several criteria, including the state of the competition and the diversity of editorial voices in each market, as well as the quality of the applications.  It will look at the ability of the markets to support new radio stations, the financial resources of each applicant, and proposed initiatives for the development of Canadian talent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 113               Le comité fondera sa décision sur plusieurs critères, dont l'état de la concurrence et la diversité des voix éditoriales dans chaque marché ainsi que la qualité des demandes. Il examinera également la capacité des marchés à soutenir de nouvelles stations de radio, les ressources financières de chaque requérante et les initiatives proposées pour le développement des talents canadiens.

LISTNUM 95 \l 114               We will then look at the applications to renew Aboriginal Voices Radio's licence for its radio undertakings at Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Ottawa.  The Commission will discuss a number of issues with the licencee, including its programming commitments and its apparent non‑compliance with certain sections of the Radio Regulations 1986, and conditions of licence.

LISTNUM 95 \l 115               I will now invite the hearing secretary, Ms Boulet, to explain the procedures we will be following.

LISTNUM 95 \l 116               Ms Boulet...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 117               THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 118               Good morning, everyone.  Before beginning I would like to go over a few housekeeping matters to ensure the proper conduct of this hearing.

LISTNUM 95 \l 119               When you are in the hearing room we would ask that you please turn off your cell phones, beepers and black berries, as they are an unwelcome distractions to participants and commissioners, and they may cause interference on the internal communication system.  We would appreciate your cooperation with respect to this throughout the hearing.

LISTNUM 95 \l 120               We expect the hearing to take approximately one week.  We will begin each morning, starting tomorrow, at 8:30, and finish around 7:30.  We will take one hour for lunch and a 15‑minute break in the morning and afternoon.  We will let you know of any schedule changes that may occur.

LISTNUM 95 \l 121               The Tuscany Room, just outside on your right, will serve as the examination room, where you can examine the public files of the applications being considered at this hearing.  As indicated in the agenda, you may reach the examination room by calling 306‑790‑4735.

LISTNUM 95 \l 122               There is a transcript, a verbatim transcript of this hearing being taken by the court reporter sitting at the table in front of me.  If you have any questions on how to obtain all or part of this transcript, please approach the reporter during a break.  Please note that the full transcript will be made available on the Commission's website shortly after the conclusion of the hearing.

LISTNUM 95 \l 123               Simultaneous translation is also available during the hearing.  You can obtain a translation receiver from the technician sitting at the back of the room.  The English interpretation is on channel 1 and the French is on channel 2.

LISTNUM 95 \l 124               Finally, we will proceed at this hearing with a four‑phase process as follows:  First, we will hear each applicant in the agenda order, and each applicant will be granted 20 minutes to make his presentation.  Questions from the Commission will follow each presentation.

LISTNUM 95 \l 125               Phase II is where applicants reappear in the same order to intervene if they wish on the competing applications.  Ten minutes are allowed for this purpose.  And again, questions from the Commission may follow.

LISTNUM 95 \l 126               In Phase III other parties will appear in the order set out in the agenda to present their appearing intervention, and ten minutes will be allowed for each presentation.  Again, questions may follow.

LISTNUM 95 \l 127               Phase IV, finally, provides an opportunity for each applicant to reply to all the interventions submitted on their application.  Applicants appear in reverse order and ten minutes are allowed for this reply.  And again, questions may follow.

LISTNUM 95 \l 128               For the record, I would like to indicate that the letter dated October 4, 2006, regarding the use of frequency 102.9 megahertz from the applicant carrying on business as Northwestern Radio Partnership, has been added to the public record of this application.

LISTNUM 95 \l 129               Also e‑mails dated October 23 and 24, 2006, from the applicant Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc., as well as the Commission's response dated October 27, 2006, clarifying the calculation of CKAV‑FM's spoken word programming, were also added to the public record of AVR's application 2006 0872‑1.

LISTNUM 95 \l 130               These documents are all available for your review in the public examination room.

LISTNUM 95 \l 131               And we're now ready to proceed to item 1 on the agenda, which is an application by Newcap Inc. for a licence to operate an English language commercial FM radio programming undertaking in Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 132               The new station would operate on frequency 105.3 megahertz (channel 287C) with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 214.4 metres).

LISTNUM 95 \l 133               Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Robert Steele, who will introduce his colleagues.  You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation.

LISTNUM 95 \l 134               Mr. Steele...?

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

LISTNUM 95 \l 135               MR. STEELE:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 136               Good morning, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Commission Staff.  I'm Rob Steele, president and chief executive officer of Newcap Radio.

LISTNUM 95 \l 137               Before we begin our presentation I'd like to introduce our team.  Seated in the front row to my immediate right is David Murray, recently named chief operating officer for Newcap Radio.

LISTNUM 95 \l 138               Beside Dave is Ron Thompson who heads up our Southern Alberta group.  Ron has over 40 years in radio, with the last 25 years in Red Deer.

LISTNUM 95 \l 139               Next to Ron is Sue Stevenson, news director of our Southern Alberta group of stations, including KG Country and Z 99 Red Deer.  Sue has over 25 years of news experience in radio, with 20 of it in the newsroom in Red Deer.  At Newcap we are particularly proud of the quality of the news we provide in Alberta, and early this year, KG Country won the RTNDA award for best national newscast in the market category.

LISTNUM 95 \l 140               Next to Sue is Mark Maheu, executive vice‑president and chief strategist for Newcap Radio.

LISTNUM 95 \l 141               Beside Mark is Glenda Spenrath, assistant GM of Newcap's Alberta Radio Group East, based in Lloydminster.  And rounding out our panel is Brad Boechler, our VP of sales.

LISTNUM 95 \l 142               In this application we are looking to extend our news programming and community service to an additional market in Alberta.  Medicine Hat is really a good news story, and to give you some of the economic background I will ask Glenda Spenrath to elaborate.

LISTNUM 95 \l 143               Glenda...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 144               MS SPENRATH:  Thank you, Rob.

LISTNUM 95 \l 145               Medicine Hat has a growing and diversified economy, with strengths in oil and gas, information technology, machinery and food processing.  Its economy is broad‑based and well positioned for solid long‑term growth.  Medicine Hat shares in Alberta's economic good fortune.  Medicine Hat's population grew over seven percent between 2001 and 2006, and FP Markets projects another five percent growth between now and 2011.

LISTNUM 95 \l 146               Similarly, retail sales are projected to grow in Medicine Hat by 35 percent over the next five years; whereas, the corresponding rate for Canada is 28 percent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 147               These economic statistics paint a very positive picture, and an even more tangible example of economic growth, from January to May of this year housing starts in Medicine Hat were up a robust 32 percent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 148               In Medicine Hat a new entrant will be facing a strong entrenched competitor in Pattison.  Its two FM stations are well positioned in an AC format that draws two‑thirds of the listeners in the market at least once a week, and a heritage country station that draws 37 percent of the market during each week with high satisfaction ratings according to our research.

LISTNUM 95 \l 149               Their radio stations share facilities with their television stations and enjoy the economies of scale that accompany this kind of operation.

LISTNUM 95 \l 150               To be successful in this market a new entrant will have to provide high quality programming.  We have a track record of providing excellent programming in all the markets that we serve.  The synergies we bring in the back office, as well as the added value of our Alberta news group, mean that we can devote the resources necessary to make the station a success.

LISTNUM 95 \l 151               We must be willing to be patient for profits to come.  Our business plan does not envisage showing operating profits until the third year of operations, and pre‑tax profits do not happen until year five.  All the other applicants foresee profits at the latest in year three, and some in the first year.

LISTNUM 95 \l 152               We will maximize synergies to increase sales and generate incremental radio advertising revenues.

LISTNUM 95 \l 153               And we will direct the savings from back office and other administrative efficiencies to on‑air programming for listeners.

LISTNUM 95 \l 154               To tell you a bit more about our Alberta Radio Group and our Southern Alberta stations, here is Ron Thompson.

LISTNUM 95 \l 155               MR. THOMPSON:  Thanks Glenda.  Good morning, Madam Chair and Members of the Commission.

LISTNUM 95 \l 156               When Newcap purchased the Telemedia stations in Alberta, it was decided that to provide high quality service in the many small markets served, capital investment and programming improvements were needed to make markets viable.  The research and capital investment of Newcap is over $5 million put into many small markets we serve in Alberta.  They've resulted in more jobs, more local service and better local reflection.

LISTNUM 95 \l 157               Newcap also created three subdivisions to further group stations regionally that have even more similarities.  The three groups are based in Lloydminster, Edson, and Red Deer.  The Red Deer stations anchor the Southern Alberta Group of seven stations in Red Deer, Blairmore, Brooks, Stettler, and Drumheller.  These stations have a great deal of political, social, economic and cultural characteristics in common.  With mixed economies based upon both the resource industries and agriculture, among others.

LISTNUM 95 \l 158               Adding Medicine Hat to this group would benefit all the other markets in the Southern Alberta Group, providing coverage of southeast Alberta while allowing us to provide a higher quality programming focus in that market.

LISTNUM 95 \l 159               A the same time, Medicine Hat's size means that we can invest in a strong local team, with all of the programming decisions being made in that market.  We expect that we will be live and local at least 120 hours per broadcast week with occasional features from one of the larger markets.

LISTNUM 95 \l 160               For example, if Nickelback is playing in Edmonton or Red Deer, our local rock stations in those markets can interview the band and provide interview clips that our Medicine Hat rock station would not otherwise enjoy.

LISTNUM 95 \l 161               To talk a bit about the news approach, I'd like to introduce Sue Stevenson our Red Deer news director.

LISTNUM 95 \l 162               MS STEVENSON:  Thanks, Ron, and good morning.

LISTNUM 95 \l 163               In a radio environment that has increasing music choices from satellites, the Internet and iPods, we realize that to compete we have two strategic advantages.  We are local and we are live.  For this reason, you may have noticed in all three of the applications on this hearing we increased our commitment to news over the course of the written process to five hours and 45 minutes per week, and at least 75 percent of this weekly total will be local news.

LISTNUM 95 \l 164               Newcap Radio strongly believes that local news is the key to success in markets like Medicine Hat.  For example, in many smaller Alberta markets we have significantly increased our local news content.  The feedback from listeners and our clients has been very positive, to say the least.

LISTNUM 95 \l 165               Newcap has introduced a news access system that allows Red Deer and our other southern Alberta stations to instantly share stories through what's called a wire relay system.  It has greatly increased news content of local interest on all stations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 166               Newcap has instituted a protocol to share stories and interviews as well with our other centres right across the province for both news and agriculture.

LISTNUM 95 \l 167               The agriculture sector is an important part of Medicine Hat's economy, and as such, will receive extensive coverage on our station.  Newcap stations in Red Deer, Camrose and Lloydminster have dedicated agricultural reporters who routinely share information.  It has proven to be a good asset and is an area that we are aggressively trying to grow.  Medicine Hat radio will benefit from our established expertise in this agricultural area.

LISTNUM 95 \l 168               In Red Deer we have operated mobile community studios for some time.  We use our two vehicles to broadcast live from locations around our service area.  This summer CKGY‑FM and CIZZ‑FM in Red Deer were appointed the official voice of the 2006 Alberta Summer Games, and we put our mobile studios at the disposal of the games to provide live coverage at the various venues.  We combined this with our Newcap Alberta synergies to provide our stations with exclusive coverage of the games, which resulted in their communities getting realtime information on how their area athletes were doing.  We intend to have a mobile studio in Medicine Hat as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 169               We are proposing to provide five‑minute newscasts each day of the week through morning drive, at noon, and in afternoon drive in Medicine Hat, and that includes weekends.  This will be supplemented during the weekday by shorter updates on the half hour in the morning drive.

LISTNUM 95 \l 170               Our three full time and one half time reporters will be supported by regional news information from our 12 reporters in other southern Alberta markets.  And around the province we currently have over 50 dedicated reporters and journalists.

LISTNUM 95 \l 171               We will also provide a range of other local information features, including 35 weekly community event updates, 35 weekly public affairs reports, which we plan to call The Hat Today, and a one‑hour weekly public affairs program The Hat This Week.  We see the news department following various Medicine Hat events through the week in the community updates, while local issues might be tracked on our public affairs updates.  On the weekend the top local news events and public affairs topics will be developed into the hour‑long show.  Some weeks this might track one particularly hot issue like the municipal elections race.  Other weeks might see more diverse topics covered.

LISTNUM 95 \l 172               We will also seek out our listeners' opinions on issues of the day with our listener pole, The Hat Line.  We hope to make this the coffee shop topic by asking for opinions throughout the week and then airing the feedback later in the week as a feature of our morning show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 173               Of course, our spoken word will include our announcers' talk about the music they are playing, about the events around Medicine Hat, as well as humour and other entertainment.

LISTNUM 95 \l 174               And now to talk to you about our format choice and the sound of the station, here is Mark Maheu.

LISTNUM 95 \l 175               MR. MAHEU:  Thank you, Sue.  Good morning.

LISTNUM 95 \l 176               It's fairly clear when you review all the research presented at this hearing that what is most missing in Medicine Hat is a rock radio station.  Most of the applicants for a new station who tested multiple formats found that rock tested the highest in Medicine Hat.  The question for an applicant, and maybe for the Commission, I suppose, as well, is what kind of rock should that be?

LISTNUM 95 \l 177               The research that we commissioned showed two clear market voids, classic rock and classic hits.  The research found that 44 percent would listen to classic rock most of the time or all the time, and 39 percent for classic hits.  The strongest demand for classic rock was among men aged 18 to 49, while the stronger demand for classic hits was with women, particularly those aged 35 to 54.  At the same time, there was still strong interest among men for classic hits and among women, particularly those 35 to 54, for classic rock.  So they would both work together.

LISTNUM 95 \l 178               After we asked about the perceptions and the availability of the formats among those who liked them the most, we calculated the percentage of format void.  These two formats ranked the highest again at 24 percent for classic hits ‑‑ or classic rock/classic hits, and 23 percent for classic rock.

LISTNUM 95 \l 179               Our conclusion after looking at all the research was to blend the most common elements of each format into one single format proposition.  Our format choice of a classic rock and classic hits hybrid is called The Rock.  The Rock combines the very best of mainstream classic rock from artists like The Who, Tragically Hip and Led Zeppelin, and it mixes it in with the classic hits sound of artists like Foreigner, Elton John and Brian Adams.

LISTNUM 95 \l 180               The station will sound like a rock station, but a mainstream adult‑targeted version.  Since there are presently no stations playing rock in Medicine Hat, The Rock will also play some new music from Canadian artists like Sam Roberts, Mobile and Arcade Fire.

LISTNUM 95 \l 181               We'll also provide compelling music features to keep our listeners interested and involved.

LISTNUM 95 \l 182               One of those programs will be called The Way Back Machine and it's a Friday night show, it's a bit of a rock'n'roll house party, where from eight to ten The Rock rolls the best classic rock from the late‑'60s and the early‑'70s.

LISTNUM 95 \l 183               We'll also be featuring a program called Saturday Night in Concert where we will have live performance material from the legends of classic rock.  From seven until 8:00 at night listeners enjoy front‑row seats as The Rock rolls the live cuts, and we'll do that commercial free.

LISTNUM 95 \l 184               Far West Rock will feature the new music makers from Western Canada week nights at 6 p.m.

LISTNUM 95 \l 185               And Sunday's at 6, we fire up the MP3 player to feature the newest and unreleased tracks from Canadian music makers participating in Newcap's making of the band initiatives taking place in Calgary and in Ottawa.

LISTNUM 95 \l 186               We will solicit Medicine Hat bands' participation in entering our soon to be announced Calgary Canadian Talent Development program.  You may remember that we've proposed to devote half of our $7 million in CTD in Calgary to a program called Making of the Band.  This program is designed to find and showcase upcoming new Alberta artists, and we propose to use all of our Alberta radio stations to promote this initiative.

LISTNUM 95 \l 187               Given the format we propose in Medicine Hat, it will be a natural extension of this initiative to the benefit of aspiring Medicine Hat performers.  Entries from Medicine Hat will be featured and showcased in regular rotation on the proposed station The Rock.

LISTNUM 95 \l 188               Our Medicine Hat spending on Canadian talent development will target two areas.  The newest musicians in the system, students, and the national initiatives designed to support and showcase our emerging stars.  We will contribute $100,000 each year to the development of Canadian talent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 189               We will provide the Medicine Hat School Boards with $40,000 each year in total to help students develop musical literacy.  Four programs will each receive $10,000.

LISTNUM 95 \l 190               Instruments for deserving and needy students, music scholarships for the most promising students, support for their music festivals and support for their musical curriculum.

LISTNUM 95 \l 191               On the national level, we will provide $40,000 each year to the Radio Starmaker Fund to support their efforts for emerging artists.  We will also ask them to target this to Alberta artists to the extent that they are able.

LISTNUM 95 \l 192               And we will also provide an annual contribution of $20,000 to Canada Music Week with a view to financing an Alberta Music showcase at their annual Toronto event.  We have already spoken with CMW and they support this initiative.

LISTNUM 95 \l 193               Our local and national Medicine Hat initiatives combined with our on‑air support for our national Making of the Band initiatives, will provide support to emerging talents at many levels of their development.

LISTNUM 95 \l 194               Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Newcap is before you this morning looking to provide a new service for the listeners of Medicine Hat.  Our proposal for a new rock formatted station goes well beyond a format choice for the market.  Our proposal is focused on delivering a truly local radio station for listeners of Medicine Hat.  A radio station leaning heavily on spoken word, local news and service to the community.

LISTNUM 95 \l 195               The radio listener's world is changing rapidly.  Every day there are new listening choices popping up.  Conventional radio is challenged to find new ways to keep people coming back to local radio.  At Newcap we believe a big part of the solution to maintaining and building audiences is to create a broadcast content that is not easily duplicated.  This is why we believe our proposal for Medicine Hat will be successful.  An iPod, satellite radio or internet radio station never did spot news coverage from an accident, a fire or a flood.  Being live and being local can and will be the difference, and we believe our proposal for Medicine Hat will make a difference.  We'll be a new editorial voice in the market, along with providing new listening choices to the market in a format that it indicates it would enjoy the most.

LISTNUM 95 \l 196               Medicine Hat, as you may well know, is enjoying excellent economic growth right now, which bodes very well for new entrants into the radio market.  Our financial projections for Medicine Hat are modest, achievable, and they will likely cause little or no material impact on incumbent broadcasters.

LISTNUM 95 \l 197               Newcap Radio has an excellent track record in Alberta, and we truly want to be part of the Medicine Hat community.  We see it as an important community, and we would be very proud to serve it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 198               To that end, we have proposed significant benefits, including a Canadian Talent Development package totalling $700,000 over the first seven years of a licence.  This, combined with our strong local programming proposals, we believe makes Newcap the best choice to be licenced in Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 199               We thank you for your time and attention this morning.  We'd be pleased to answer any questions you have about our proposal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1100              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Steele and panel.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1101              Commissioner Pennefather...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1102              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1103              Good morning, Mr. Steele.  Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1104              I'll direct my questions to you, Mr. Steele, but if you would indicate to whom we ‑‑ you would pass on the answers, that would be great.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1105              MR. STEELE:  You can direct your questions to Mr. Maheu, if you wouldn't mind, and he will pass them on if it's ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1106              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I shall.  Mr. Maheu, we'll start with the programming with the music component.  And your presentation this morning on that point and others actually has provided quite a bit of clarification, but I think it is important to go through the points and get a clear understanding of where you're positioning your approach to music.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1107              In the Supplementary Brief and again this morning, you discuss, I think, what is a mix of classic hits and classic rock, and a mix which brings in both the male and female audiences.  Let's ‑‑ I'd like to understand a little bit better how that works and why then you've decided to brand the proposed station as rock?  In fact, in your Supplementary Brief I think you call it The Rock 99.1, but I think you might mean Rock 105.3.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1108              Why have you ‑‑ if we can break that down this way.  On the classic hits component of this mix, can you elaborate on how that's going to work?  Is it a selection that's leaning more to the AOR variety or more to the top 40 variety, and can you give us some examples to demonstrate how the classic hits component will be heard by the audience?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1109              MR. MAHEU:  Sure, I'd be very happy to, Commissioner Pennefather.  It's just to help you clarify and understand really what we're going to sound like and where these components come from.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1110              As we discussed in our Supplementary Brief and again in our remarks this morning, it's a little bit unique, our approach in Medicine Hat, from what you might find in other markets.  Not very often would you combine two formats like this to hybrid it and make it one.  If I could, just before I explain the elements of that, I'd like to fill you in on why we're even doing it and looking at it that way, because obviously when you look at the research, there are two pretty significant opportunities here, one in classic rock and one in classic hits.  The first question is, well, why not one or the other because there's a pretty significant opportunity.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1111              And the reason for that is in a market the size of Medicine Hat, it is on the smaller size of a medium‑sized market.  There are only 67,000 people in Medicine Hat.  So ‑‑ and there are only two existing radio stations in the market today, an AC and a country.  And to be very narrow in a market that small would, in a way, be doing a disservice to the market because we'd only be serving a very, you know, limited number of people, those who like classic rock or, say, classic hits.  But what's unique about these two formats, classic rock and classic hits, is they're rather complementary, and they do overlap quite well.  And they are also two formats that unlike, say, trying to mix top 40 and country together, you would find when you research both of those constituencies that there's very little overlap there.  People who love top 40 aren't really country fans, and vice versa.  But when you look at classic hits and classic rock, there is a lot of commonality between these two groups of people, and some of the music universe inside of those two formats is shared.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1112              So when we looked at the opportunity in Medicine Hat, and the research came back and said, well, classic hits is a good opportunity and so is classic rock, we looked at it a little bit deeper and we found that with men, classic rock was certainly their first choice, and with women classic hits was their first choice.  But when you go down to second choices it was vice versa, where women who enjoyed classic hits also enjoyed some classic rock, and many who liked classic rock also enjoyed some classic hits.  So it brought us to the point where we had to figure out a way to be wide enough in a market as small as Medicine Hat to have an offering that would be listenable to the most number of people.  And we were fortunate because classic hits and classic rock are very complementary.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1113              To answer your question specifically about what genre of classic hits would work with classic rock, there are a number of different flavours across Canada right now and in the United States of classic hits.  There is one flavour which is very much based in the pop top 40 sound from the '80s and '90s with a sprinkling of '70s and a little bit of today.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1114              There are other classic hit stations that lean a little bit more to the rock side of classic hits, where there is some top 40 in the mix, but it's more on the songs that charted on the rock charts from the '80s and '90s.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1115              What we're proposing in Medicine Hat is to take the real core of classic rock, the super stars of classic rock from the late‑'70s, the '80s and the '90s, and combine it with the classic ‑‑ the classic hits version that is a little more rock leaning.  So there's going to be less top 40 or pop sound in the classic hits component of this hybrid format.  So that plays a little better to the rock sensibilities on the classic rock side, and certainly makes sense for the classic hits people.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1116              Where some classic hits stations you might be hearing songs by Hewey Louis and the News or Madonna from the '80s and the '90s, you would not hear that on our proposal for The Rock.  You would be hearing songs from Foreigner and Elton John and people like that on the classic hits side, blended in with classic rock.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1117              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I think that's helpful, because if we look at the research that you've included in your Supplementary Brief, I don't believe that you submitted a separate research report.  You included it with your Supplementary Brief, so I'm using that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1118              It would appear that the classic hits component came out though a little ahead from page 7 of your Supplementary Brief of classic rock.  In your statement today, you say that the station will sound like a rock station ‑‑ will sound like a rock station, but a mainstream adult‑targeted version.  Can you really do both?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1119              MR. MAHEU:  We believe you can, and you make a good point on classic hits where it did come out ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1120              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1121              MR. MAHEU:  ‑‑ just a hair above classic rock.  Part of our consideration when we were putting our proposal together to make it a rock station rather than a hits station, was the fact that there is a ‑‑ somewhat of a mainstream AC radio station in the marketplace already.  We know from our experience and the research that we've done, if you put a more classic hits based format on, it's going to steal much more from AC radio, or mainstream AC, and we felt there was just much more room for us to carve out our own audience and our own constituency of listeners as a rock leaning hybrid rather than a classic hits leaning hybrid.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1122              So we felt that:  A) we'd be able to generate an audience that is not being served right now at all, and we needed to position that radio station to be different; and B) it would infringe less on the existing AC that is in the marketplace today.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1123              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Well, I think that's the last ‑‑ the latter part of your comment, was part of my point, that the AC served in the community today is skewed to females at, I think, what is your target demographic.  So again, they would appear to be well served in the market.  One would have assumed then that you would lean more towards the rock component.  To help us understand then, there are three components to your hybrid, if you will.  Can you have a hybrid of three?  Tribrid?

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 95 \l 1124              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  The classic rock, the classic hits and the newer rock, can you give us a sense of the proportions, the percentage more or less, of the play list and if each component will be broadcast throughout the broadcast day, or will there be particular components of the broadcast day which will be ‑‑ in which you will carry one or other of the three components of your rock?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1125              MR. MAHEU:  Sure.  First of all, just on the components of what part of the broadcast day they might air, just so members of the Commission have a ‑‑ as clear an understanding as possible.  We're not really proposing or anticipating to do any day parting on the radio station.  So we're not going to be a little more rocky or a little more current at night and a little more gold based and familiar during the day.  The idea here is to really focus the radio station with a consistent sound on a 24/7 basis, so very little day parting.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1126              As to your question about the percentages or components of new music versus ‑‑ on your tribrid approach of how much current music, how much classic rock and how much classic hits.  Under normal circumstances, and this really is a bit unique, because in virtually any other market that has more signals in it, we would not try to do as much in terms of the combination of different music styles.  We wouldn't try to do as much in a larger market.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1127              The competition likely would not let you get away with it if there were four or five or six radio stations in a market.  But looking at the size of this market and the minimal amount of service it has right now, we can be a little broader than we normally would be in trying to please a few more people than we would normally try to please.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1128              The current component of the radio station we anticipate to really be 10 percent or less.  And to be forthright, the current component is really in there to give us an opportunity to play some of the new Canadian releases that are out there right now, for two reasons.  Number one, there is a lot of good new Canadian music out there right now in the rock genre.  And secondly, a little more self‑serving reason, it allows us to lean a little less heavily on some of the Canadian gold that ‑‑ from the '70s, '80s and '90s that is approaching the critical burn out level.  So that's why we introduced a slightly small percentage of current music to the sound.  So about 10 percent of the music that you're going to hear on the radio station will be new or newer, released in the last couple of years, and a large percentage of that is going to be Canadian.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1129              The radio station, for the most part, is going to be firmly based in rock.  In terms of classic rock, and ‑‑ and rock based classic hits songs, it's virtually the rest of the ‑‑ of the music sound of the radio station.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1130              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So the rest 90.  And of the classic rock and classic hits, is there ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1131              MR. MAHEU:  It's probably 60/30 classic rocks, 30 percent classic hits.  The funny part about that, it's kind of hard to describe.  Between classic rock and classic hits, the 60 and the 30, there are songs that could fall into either side of that category as you might appreciate, so ‑‑ but just to give you an idea, 60 percent would be that traditional classic rock that you would think of, you know, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, The Who, and bands, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Springstein.  And then on that 30 percent part, you're going to have more pop/rock oriented top 40 chart type of hit songs from people like Elton John, Genesis, Phil Collins and folks like that, but finding the best songs that work with both constituencies.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1132              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Speaking of both constituencies though in terms of being precise, which I'm sure is an exercise you've gone through in terms of the advertising issue looking at it.  Your Supplementary Brief refers to ‑‑ on page 7 to the audience will be predominantly male, 35 to 44 men.  And you've suggested as well that men aged 18 to 24 would be attracted to your format due to the 10 percent active rock component.  So just to be clear for the record, what is the general and core audience you would serve with your rock/classic rock blend, just to clarify?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1133              MR. MAHEU:  Sure.  The ‑‑ you know, in a market this small we can look at a broader target audience than we would in a large market where you're really narrowing it down to a certain demographic group.  But the broad target audience for the radio station is adults 25 to 54, with a skew more men than women.  The real tight targeting of the radio station is 35 to 49 year olds, more men than women.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1134              At the end of the day, in terms of cumulative audience, our experience has been that you're going to have slightly more men in terms of total numbers, cumulative audience, slightly more men than women listening to the radio station.  And in terms of hours tuned, we're anticipating probably 60 percent of the hours tuned to 62 percent will be male, and 38 to 40 percent will be female hours tuned.  Although the cumulative hours will be rather close.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1135              And in terms of, if I can, on the younger part of the audience, the 18 to 24 men coming to the radio station, it will be partly because a little bit of the new music we play, but to be quite honest, we're not going to play enough new music for young 18 to 24‑year‑old guys to love this radio station a lot.  But by virtue of the fact that it will be the only rock offering in the market, we are going to get some tuning from 18 to 24s almost by default.  We're not going to actively target them obviously because there are so many people in that 25 to 54 group that want this radio station, but they'll certainly come to it because there's no alternative choice for them in the marketplace to listen to.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1136              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Mr. Maheu.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1137              I'm going to ask you a question now about a response you gave to our deficiency letter.  And your response is dated August 14.  And you've indicated that nearly 100 percent of your program will be locally produced, and that voice tracked or automated programming will air only in non‑regulated hours between midnight and 5:30.  You've also indicated your intention to offer some syndicated programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1138              Could you tell us what type of syndicated programming would be offered and on average the number of hours per week you would devote to this type of programming?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1139              MR. MAHEU:  Our intention, Commissioner, is to be as live and as local as we can possibly be whenever we can possibly do it.  And we thought long and hard about this, and we made reference to it a little bit in our opening remarks, that we feel going forward for radio to be competitive, especially in smaller markets, we need to be live and we need to put people on the air and have people in the radio station.  And we're doing that not only in our proposal for Medicine Hat, but throughout Alberta, and all our radio stations across the country.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1140              There's a ‑‑ this is our strategy and this is our approach.  There are different opinions out there, but we believe that pouring money back into people and content on the air is going to be what helps differentiate us from competition.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1141              In terms of voice tracking, we're only going to be voice tracked right now, we propose, between midnight and six.  It's actually probably going to be probably midnight to 5:30.  But in the unregulated hours, we will employ voice tracking to reduce our expenses.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1142              We're going to be live with real people behind microphones in the radio station from six in the morning until midnight seven days a week.  We do want to have the opportunity to look at some potential syndicated programs.  We have not chosen any yet, but there are some interesting programs out there.  We talked about our in‑concert program.  There are some live syndicated programs that are available in Canada and the United States, we're going to look at some of those.  There may be some rock documentary type of programs.  There are some long‑form documentaries about the Beetles and the Rolling Stones and bands like that that we may look at airing from time to time, but the majority, the vast overwhelming majority of our programming is local originating programming with real people.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1143              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I see in your comments this morning we expect we will be live and local at least 120 hours per broadcast week.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1144              MR. MAHEU:  Right.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1145              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Can we take that as a specific answer?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1146              MR. MAHEU:  Absolutely, yes.  And if I may, just to supplement that.  When we are doing some features, or if we are running some syndicated programming between six in the morning and midnight, if we do run some of that type of programming there is going to be a real person in the studio.  It's not going to be in a computer in an automated system.  We're still going to offer service and surveillance, weather, et cetera, during those hours when those programs are airing.  And if there's anything going on in the city or whatever, there is somebody there to answer the phone in the radio station.  So we are ‑‑ we are live and we are doing business and it's not off a computer and turn off the lights on your way out the door.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1147              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1148              Before we leave the music, one last question.  I think you've given us a good sense of the play list and your approach to the mix.  As you know, other applicants have also proposed the use of the terms classic rock, classic hits.  Very briefly, how would you describe your approach in comparison?  How does it differ from the approach that others have tabled?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1149              MR. MAHEU:  Specifically the difference with our proposal to the others is the fact that we're the only proposal looking to make a hybrid out of classic hits and classic rock.  There are other proposals that are looking to incorporate alternative rock and mainstream rock and classic rock together, but our proposal really takes ‑‑ is rooted and based in familiar music with a small current component.  The other proposals that are looking to put a rock station on are generally a little younger, have more different genres of music being put together into one format.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1150              Our experience is with classic hits and classic rock, we do them as independent formats in a lot of different markets with a great deal of success, is that those two genres of music are very complementary, because partly they really target a very similar demographic group as opposed to, say, trying to mix alternative rock with classic rock.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1151              You know, when you take those two genres, they both fall under the rock umbrella, but they're both kind of at polar ends of the rock scale, and it's very difficult to hybrid a format that, say, is targeted to 16 to 29 year olds with a format that's targeted predominantly to 35 to 54 year olds.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1152              So we believe that our proposal here, that's how it's different, that we've taken two genres that are demographically complementary, sound ‑‑ they sound complementary in terms of the intensity and the texture of the sound of the music that we would play, and we put them together.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1153              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1154              I'm going to turn now to another component of the 120 hours of locally produced programming, and that is the news and spoken word.  I should say spoken word comprised of news, traditional news and non‑news.  And I believe with your presentation this morning there is a ‑‑ a document which puts ‑‑ lists the components of the scheduled news, the non‑news and the hours.  So if we repeat a little bit of this, those were some of my questions to try to clarify these points, but perhaps to also add a little more substance to what we're going ‑‑ what the audience would hear.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1155              When we got to the deficiency on August 14th, you raised your news packages from 53 news packages, for a total of 3.5 hours, to 81 news packages of various lengths, for a total of five hours and 45 minutes of news.  I see it here as five hours and 75 minutes, and in your presentation this morning you said five hours and 45 minutes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1156              Just can we clear for the record the news, per se, the packages as described in this document Monday to Friday, Monday to Friday and Saturday and Sunday.  Is it five hour and 75, or five hours and 45?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1157              MR. MAHEU:  If I can, Commissioner, just to clarify.  Five hours and 45 minutes we've done it numerically down the sheet, so that's 5.75 hours.  So that's the ‑‑ five hours and 45 minutes would be five and three‑quarter hours.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1158              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I see.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1159              MR. MAHEU:  And ‑‑ sorry for the confusion.  So 5.75 hours, which would be five hours and 45 minutes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1160              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.  So it's still five hours and 45 as such in terms of the news itself, okay?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1161              MR. MAHEU:  That is correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1162              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  That's what I had added up from the August 14th deficiency.  In terms of the ‑‑ the news itself, you've talked this morning about the content of the newscast and you will have on staff, as I understand your August 14th deficiency and your Supplementary Brief at page 9, two journalist announcers and one news director.  You also discussed this morning the possible synergies with other Alberta holdings.  Do you intend, however, to hire more journalist announcers or draw ‑‑ or is it going to be supported ‑‑ your increase from 53 to 81 supported by the synergies with the other operations in Alberta?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1163              MR. MAHEU:  I'm going to ask Sue Stevenson in a moment to just kind of elaborate on that a little bit if I could.  But I want to make quite clear that our proposal for Medicine Hat, the journalists and the radio reporters that we're going to hire for the marketplace, are going to work in Medicine Hat, collecting news, creating news programs and delivering it on the air in Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1164              When we talk about the synergies throughout the Alberta Radio Group, it's really the icing on the cake.  It's not the cake.  The cake is good service done by people in Medicine Hat for the people of Medicine Hat.  But one of the things that we do bring to the table is the ability to access all the reporting work and the news coverage that's being done throughout the Province of Alberta because we are in so many markets, and we think that it kind of makes us a bit unique and gives us a bit of a leg up that we can cover stories in other areas that just can't be covered by our competition, because we are in so many places.  And we think that makes for a more robust and real substantive news approach.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1165              And, Sue, if you wouldn't mind elaborating a little bit on what our intentions are in terms of doing news in Medicine Hat with people here, and maybe how we can work in what we're doing through the rest of the radio room.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1166              MS STEVENSON:  Thanks, Mark.  Of course the reporters, journalists who are based in Medicine Hat, that is their focus.  They're focusing on City Hall, they're focusing on doing streeters on the hot topic of the day, going and talking to the city planners or the school board, agriculture.  That is their focus.  Local news is their business.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1167              Now, what the ARG south stations can add to that is ‑‑ it's really a complementary service.  The Medicine Hat reporters have their own local news.  What we have in the ARG south is a group of reporters that can complement the Medicine Hat service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1168              We may have a story in Red Deer that deals with the river that goes through Medicine Hat.  Well, we in Red Deer are going to send that to Medicine Hat, and they will be able to incorporate that into their newscast.  So really it's a win, win situation in that regard.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1169              News content of course, you know, we've stated 75 percent local, and that is ‑‑ you know, that's not going to happen every newscast.  Some newscasts are going to be 100 percent, some newscasts may be 65 percent, but the Medicine Hat reporters will be complemented by our resources elsewhere in the province.  Not just in the southern Alberta markets, but in the rest of the province.  We have over 50 reporters on the ground right across Alberta, and it's really a win, win situation.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1170              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I think if we could just pursue that.  I wanted to be sure I understood you.  The 75 percent of the news would be local news, and that was in your August 14th deficiency as well, but you said that could change so ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1171              MS STEVENSON:  No.  On average it's always going to be 75 percent or more.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1172              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1173              MS STEVENSON:  And, you know, given by what we do in Red Deer, it's the or more.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1174              You know, there is going to be a day where you're going to have more local stories that you can even put in your newscast, the next day might be a little slower.  It's going to balance out.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1175              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So does this 75 percent cover only the news portion, or does it include the weather and sports and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1176              MS STEVENSON:  The five‑minute newscasts, of course, would cover weather and traffic and sports.  But all those are local issues.  People want to know ‑‑ if there's a storm out on the highway, that's top of mind.  That's what they want to know about.  If there's a bad accident that's affecting traffic, that, of course, is local content, because that's what people want to hear, and that's what we would deliver.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1177              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  You recognize the ‑‑ the interest in discussing this as well because you explained well this morning the synergies that you are bringing to your proposed station from your other Alberta stations.  So it's the balance in trying to understand as yet how local, the live and local, what it will really mean for Medicine Hat listeners.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1178              Will the 75 percent local content in newscasts be measured over the week or over the broadcast day?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1179              MS STEVENSON:  I think it would have to be over the week, just for the reasons that I mentioned.  You know, news doesn't happen in a vacuum.  We have national news, we have international news.  Of course you strive to localize that.  If we have something happening in Afghanistan, of course Medicine Hat has a large military base there, you know, so you can tie that in.  So you're looking for every angle to localize that story.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1180              But, you know, as I said, it doesn't exist in a vacuum.  If there's a big national story, that might supersede local.  If you have another 9/11, for instance, you know what's going to lead the news, so you can't say every single cast is going to be 75 percent, but during the week it's going average out to that or more.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1181              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  When you responded to this point in the August 14th deficiency, and I think you also spoke to that again today, Ms Stevenson.  You increased the news packages from 53 to 81, stating that the radio environment has increasing music choices from satellite and iPods.  We have to compete, we have to be local and live ‑‑ compete local and live.  And you used that same rationale for increasing your involvement and your commitment to spoken word.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1182              The increase is in the news packages, why did you focus on increasing the number of news packages as opposed to the other component of your spoken word proposal, which is non‑news?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1183              MS STEVENSON:  I'm going to let Mr. Maheu answer that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1184              MR. MAHEU:  Thanks, Sue.  This is really in response, and this is characteristic of an approach we've taken on a number of our applications, and an approach that we've taken and implemented at our radio stations across the country.  And I touched on it in our opening remarks.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1185              The radio world is changing and it's changing quickly.  And we plan on being in this business and being successful in it for a long time to come.  We have seen this pendulum kind of swing back and forth.  If you look back to the late‑'80s and through the early to mid‑'90s, when economic times were tough for AM radio and radio in general, things that were cut out of radio, and I'm unfortunately old enough to have been in the business during those times, newsrooms got slashed, sports departments disappeared.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1186              The music centric orientation of radio became paramount.  Everything was about the music, and everything else, including talent, surveillance, news and weather was cut back because people cost money.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1187              What we found at Newcap, and I'm sure other companies are looking at it as well, in a world where we're not necessarily the king of the hill any more, where people can program their own play lists into an iPod and take it anywhere or pop it in their car, or listen on line to pretty much any music choice they want any time they want, radio broadcasts coming over on cell phones so you can listen to the music you want or even watch TV, so we have to re‑invent and re‑think our whole proposition.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1188              It's been a great run for radio.  We've had it pretty darn good, but now the competition is starting to close in around us, and it's non‑traditional competition.  The interesting thing about the non‑traditional competition is it's made us kind of go back to our roots what made radio famous to begin with.  Good local service done by real people doing things you couldn't get anywhere else, and it really isn't that complicated.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1189              So we don't want to make it sound like it's some sort of big, elaborate, you know, well‑researched and well‑thought out idea.  It's pretty much coming to the common sense basics that in order for us to compete in our markets, and we operate in a lot of small and medium‑sized markets, where people's expectations of us are maybe a little higher than they are in major markets where they have so many choices, that we have to re‑invest and re‑think our proposition, and that begins with people and service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1190              And we think the way we can be different in markets like Medicine Hat, is to really go back to the basics.  Put a little more money, time and effort into good people and good ideas, and do some spoken word.  It's an unrated market, there's limited competition.  This isn't a contest to see who can play 12 in a row commercial free, this is really a market that's going to respond to radio stations that reach out, become part of the community and reflect what's going on.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1191              And that's really our approach in our response in the deficiency, what it was all about.  We've kind of come to this conclusion in a lot of our markets, that we've got to beef up the amount of local news and information that we're actually providing on the air, be more than just a stick cranking out hit after hit after hit, and start doing things that bring people back to the medium of radio and keep them listening to us.  So that was really the reason for that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1192              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So you increased the scheduled news component.  And on the non‑news, I think this sheet answers my question that I had coming in, is to get some precision on the number of hour that the community events updates, the public affairs reports, the one‑hour news public affairs announcer talk comes to 19 hours ‑‑ 19.95 hours, correct?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1193              MR. MAHEU:  Correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1194              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  She can be taught.  And could you tell us a little bit more about the listener poll?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1195              MR. MAHEU:  Sure.  Maybe, Sue, would you mind doing that?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1196              MS STEVENSON:  Not at all.  A listener poll is ‑‑ would be a way to engage our listeners.  You're going to take the hot topic of the day, whether it be the end of free parking downtown or whatever, and you're going to poll your listeners on that and try and get some compelling answers that you're going to be able to use on the air.  It's an effort to really engage our listeners in what we do, and we see it as a very good tool to use for that, to kind of gauge what the community is thinking.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1197              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I think you called it The Hat Line?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1198              MS STEVENSON:  That's right, The Hat Line.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1199              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Why?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1200              MS STEVENSON:  Have a little fun with it.  It doesn't always have to be serious, you know, so ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1201              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  It isn't always serious.  The Hat Line, so throw your hat in kind of thing, discussion?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1202              MS STEVENSON:  Exactly.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1203              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  All right.  We're going to move now to Canadian talent development.  And I'm looking at clearly your revised proposal through the August 14th deficiency, and you described it again in your comments this morning.  And just a couple of clarifications.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1204              I believe in the August 14th deficiency we described a school board, and today we have school boards.  And I know there are two school boards in Medicine Hat, the Catholic School Board of Education and Medicine Hat School District number 76.  So are we clear that it is a proposal to support both school boards?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1205              MR. MAHEU:  That is correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1206              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And could you describe to us then how that will work in terms of disbursement of the 40,000 amongst the two school boards?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1207              MR. MAHEU:  Yeah.  The funds would be split evenly between both school boards.  That was an oversight on our part in the reply to deficiency for the singular there.  So it would be $20,000 to each school board each year for seven years.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1208              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So they will be split evenly between the two school boards?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1209              MR. MAHEU:  Correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1210              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And you indicated that they would have control over the distribution of the funds in the same deficiency letter, and your expectation is that it will be divided into ‑‑ the funds will be divided into four equal parts, which you've described again this morning in terms of instruments, scholarships, support for festivals and for the music curriculum.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1211              Could you explain to us if the school boards have the control over the distribution, how you would assure that this breakdown would be carried forward and whether the control of the funds entails the control over which schools or students have access to the appropriate funding?  How would you maintain some sense that the funds would actually be disbursed as you have proposed here if they have control of the disbursement?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1212              MR. MAHEU:  It's certainly a point we've contemplated, and our approach to that would be pretty straight‑forward.  The staff or the management of the radio station would work with the school boards and liaise with them on an annual basis.  Obviously we want to monitor how that money is being spent and whether it's working or not.  Are we getting ‑‑ is the school getting the desired result and are we seeing it do what we thought it would do, because we also need to report back to you each year that we've spent the money and it's been done appropriately.  So there would be an ongoing dialogue and a relationship between the radio station management and the school boards.  I would envisage that there would be a meeting at least a couple of times a year to update each other on how it's going.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1213              I think we want to ‑‑ we laid it out for you in our presentation and in our application so you got a good sense of where that money was going to be used.  I think we need to be somewhat flexible in speaking and in working with the school boards, where maybe in a particular year a need in a certain area exceeds the amount that maybe they spent the previous year, and money from one area maybe gets moved to the other.  So if each school board has $20,000 and it's five, five, five and five, there might be one year where, you know, they don't need to buy music stands this year because they did it last year, but they want to go to a couple of extra music festivals and need extra money.  I think there needs to be some flexibility because the educators, I think, are in the best position to decide what the needs of the students are and where the money could best be used.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1214              You know, I ‑‑ we want to give them as much latitude as possible as long as we're working together, knowing that that money is being spent on what it was proposed for, and that's to develop young talent for the future.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1215              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I think that's the point as far as ‑‑ I can certainly follow your point about flexibility, but clearly the Commission is interested in knowing, in fact, at the end of the day, if, in fact, these funds are supporting Canadian talent development as per the contributions approved by the Commission.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1216              So backing up again on this point, have you had discussions with the school boards, and if so, at what stage are those discussion and are there any specific agreements to the points that you've raised in terms of:  A) flexibility; but B) reporting?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1217              MR. MAHEU:  Dave Murray has certainly been riding point on this particular issue and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1218              MR. MURRAY:  We ‑‑ Al Anderson actually was the one that made contact with the school boards.  We don't have a lot of information about that with us today, but we found that, in our experience and Glenda could give some examples in Lloydminster, for example, where we are giving a significant amount of money to the schools there, that there is very much a need and it is in those areas.  And most of the details will be worked out, if we're lucky enough to be granted a licence.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1219              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay, thank you very much.  You also changed your proposed Canadian Talent Development and are now proposing to ‑‑ I think it's 40,000 to Canadian Music Week.  Can you tell the Commission why you made the change from the previous proposal?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1220              MR. MAHEU:  The proposal from the southeastern Alberta musicians ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1221              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  That's correct, convention.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1222              MR. MAHEU:  Well, there are certainly a lot of worthy places for money to go to develop Canadian talent.  We have proposed a ‑‑ a southeastern Alberta musicians convention as part of another application that was heard previously by the Commission.  And when we went through it, it was one of those ideas that I think if we had more money and more time, this thing could grow into something really big.  When we proposed it there were a lot of questions about it, a lot of unanswered questions, and we didn't want to bog down ‑‑ you know,we're working with a small radio station here in Medicine Hat if we get it.  You know, it's going to be a modest radio station.  And an effort of that size is going to take a lot of people and a lot of organization, and we felt that at this point in time it didn't make a lot of sense for us to tie up the amount of time, effort and energy it would take to pull that off.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1223              But what we did know is that there are a lot of worthy areas out there.  Radio Starmaker Fund is certainly one we've supported over a long period of time, and we're kind of really excited about the Canada Music Week proposal.  We talked to Canada Music Week about doing a specific showcase of Alberta talent, and they were quite excited by that idea.  And the money we're proposing for that is $20,000 each year that would go specifically in Toronto, during Canada Music Week, an Alberta music showcase.  Which I think many up and coming artists from Alberta, and Medicine Hat in particular, could take advantage of.  And we would ‑‑ we would get behind that and I think it could do ‑‑ it could do a lot to expose some of the talent that is happening in southern Alberta, specifically in the Medicine Hat area.  So we think the money is well‑spent in that area.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1224              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  You say that you have a view to financing an Alberta music showcase at the annual event.  And the CNW support, is that support in form of written agreement?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1225              MR. MAHEU:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1226              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  It is?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1227              MR. MAHEU:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1228              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  If you could table that?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1229              MR. MAHEU:  Sure.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1230              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1231              My last area of questioning is in the area of the business plan and your economic analysis.  In your Supplementary Brief at page 7 you outline for us your audience share which you propose the new station would ‑‑ would gain at 20 percent.  If I understand correctly, you're looking at 12 percent of its share points from the audience of CFMY, and your projections indicate that eight percent of the audience share will come from out‑of‑market stations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1232              Could you help us by identifying the out‑of‑market stations from which you would expect to repatriate audiences and the extent to which these stations will contribute to the eight percent share that you project for repatriated audiences?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1233              MR. MAHEU:  I believe the out‑of‑market stations really are lumped into a category called others.  And the others category comprise anything from out‑of‑market radio stations, internet listening, et cetera.  So we can't really quantify station call letters or station names when we talk about out of market, but what we are talking about is other listening choices that are not available generally in the Medicine Hat area.  So a little bit of it, as you see, you know, comes from ‑‑ comes from CBC and CJLT.  It's a point here and a point there.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1234              There's no one particular out‑of‑market radio station because there's not a lot that gets into Medicine Hat.  But there are, you know, when people drive south there are stations coming out of the U.S. that you can hear in your car and things like that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1235              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.  On your revenue projections, which we have in front of us, based on your application.  In looking at that and looking at the market, what is your comment on the Medicine Hat market's ability to support one new station or more than one new station at this time?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1236              MR. MAHEU:  That's a really good question, and our thinking has changed on that.  As you may note from the dates on our application, we, I think, triggered this call a couple years ago when we filed.  And when we did our research and our homework on Medicine Hat a couple years ago, things were a little bit different then than they are today.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1237              They were still pretty good, but Medicine Hat was feeling the effects of the BSE cattle quarantine, exports to the United States and so on, which has now pretty much passed and things are different.  The economy in Medicine Hat has grown ahead of expectations by quite a bit over the past couple of years.  I'm going to ask Glenda to maybe comment on that in just a second because she's done some excellent homework on what's going on in the economy.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1238              When we originally applied, we put our application in in 2004, we felt that there was certainly room for one, and that's kind of what we were thinking, and our business plan was based on that.  But looking at what's happening now, and FP Markets, what they're reporting, and just talking to some business people in Medicine Hat, things are a lot better than I think many anticipated they would be today.  And we're of the mind, based on the retail sales and everything else that is going on in the marketplace, that, you know, there is room for two.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1239              Here we are in late‑2006 instead of the middle of 2004, and we believe now the market has grown to the point and shows growth for the future that we could handle two.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1240              Glenda, do you have some of the stuff that you found out?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1241              MS SPENRATH:  Yes.  Actually, since our filing two years ago, I have looked at the indicators over the past two years for 2005 and 2006 from the FP Markets published by the Financial Post.  And what we're finding or what I found when I looked over this research, is that the actual results are actually leapfrogging ahead of prior projections.  And the biggest thing is the financial analysts are really being challenged in Alberta to keep up with the boom that's going on out here.  To give an example of that, when you look at some of the major financial indicators that would give us, you know, an indication that there is room in this market for additional entrants, one of them is the retail sales in the market.  If you look at where they were in 2005, they were projecting the retail sales for the Medicine Hat market to be at $1.05 billion generated in 2005.  At that time they were looking at projecting ahead to 2007 the retail sales for the market being at $1.17 billion.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1242              Well, here we are today in 2006, 2007 hasn't happened yet, and we're already at $1.29 billion in estimated retail sales for the Medicine Hat market.  So, I mean, we've surpassed 2000's retail sales and we've done it a year early.  And if you take that onto the population, for example, there's another area that's a good indicator.  Last year they were projecting the Medicine Hat market to be at 67,000 by 2007, here we are today and they're estimating the population to be 67,500 according to the FP Markets Research, and so again we're meeting next year's goals this year.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1243              Another indicator would be the new housing starts.  And as everywhere else in Alberta, it's booming, and we're looking at new housing starts for January to May of 2006 for Medicine Hat being at 32 percent, which is astounding.  But when you look back at the results for 2005 ‑‑ or 2002 to 2006, the jump came in 2004, and we've been pacing still 30 to 40 percent ahead in housing starts from the 2002 to 2004 period.  So, you know, it's growing faster that we can project it, so I really do believe there is room in the market for two new stations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1244              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Just on the population growth, what, in your view, is the percentage growth rate?  You mentioned a number, but what is the percentage of population growth that you have seen in the reports?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1245              MS SPENRATH:  What they had said in 2001 to 2006 was about six percent growth in population during that period of time.  And they're looking ahead for 2006 to 2011 to be another five percent.  It's anybody's guess.  Maybe eight percent at this point.  That was yesterday.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1246              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And going forward, do you see that being maintained?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1247              MS SPENRATH:  I think what's happening in Alberta ‑‑ I don't think you could say it could be maintained indefinitely at all.  When you see what's happening it's fabulous out here, but it's not realistic to say that it's going to go on at this pace for ten or 11 years.  But I think that five percent at this point over the next five years would be realistic, yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1248              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  The population within the contour at 105.3, what is that population and do you expect growth in that population as well?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1249              MR. MAHEU:  Dave, do you have the contour handy in our Supplementary Brief?  I think it's in the 80,000 range.  I'll just get that for you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1250              MR. MURRAY:  Yeah, the population in the three millivolt contour is 61,091 people.  And in the .5 almost 68,000.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1251              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  68,000.  What impact would licensing ‑‑ you mention the possibility of one, the possibility of two.  What would be the impact of licensing a somewhat similar rock, classic rock, rock, classic hits format, or even the adult standards modern nostalgia formats stations, what impact would that have on your application?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1252              MR. MAHEU:  Well, the impact, if you licenced another classic rock or classic hits application along with Newcap's hybrid proposal, it would certainly be giving the folks who like classic rock and classic hits a lot of choice because there would be two stations kind of trying to deliver that to them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1253              We would suggest that if we were fortunate enough to be licenced as one of the choices in Medicine Hat, and in the Commission's wisdom if you decided to licence a second, a classic rock or a classic hits format would not necessarily be as complementary with our offering as maybe some of the other proposals that have been put forth.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1254              When you take a look at the audience targeting demographically, and the life group music choice, and how to best serve the market if you were going to do two, obviously there are a number of rock and classic rock proposals that fall into a reasonable area, and then there are older targeting softer formats that are also being proposed.  So if you were to ask us which one would work best with what we are proposing, it would be an older, softer format, and I think there are a couple of those being proposed by Mr. Larsen and Mr. Hildebrand.  They would certainly provide an alternative to the marketplace that's not there, and would not compete with classic rock, classic hits hybrid, and there would be minimum overlap.  There would be lots of overlap with the other ones.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1255              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So in your view, the ‑‑ it is possible to licence two stations in this market to add to the current incumbent stations, and provided that there was ‑‑ the effect on your application, however, if we also licence another classic rock station, would that make it impossible to achieve your revenue projections?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1256              MR. MAHEU:  No, it would not make it impossible.  It would certainly make it more difficult because it is a smaller, medium‑sized market, and the vast majority of the revenue that we would be projecting to do would be retail, local advertising sales, and part of what drives local advertising sales is results and offering something different to advertisers to get them those results.  And if we're out knocking on doors and, you know, the word comes down, hey, there's two new radio stations coming to town, and, hey, they're both the same, it's going to make it more difficult for the new radio stations to go out there and differentiate themselves and establish their business in the marketplace because they are going to really be competing head‑on for listenership and audience, and certainly advertising revenue.  So it would not be impossible, it would just make it a lot more difficult.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1257              I think if it were the case, and I certainly can't speak for other licencees, but speaking on behalf of Newcap, if we were licenced and another classic rock or classic hits station were licenced, we would do what we always do.  We'd go back into the market and say, okay, we do some more research and go here's what we've got.  We've got a classic rock station that's coming on and we want to be classic hits, classic rock hybrid.  We'd go to the marketplace, do our homework and find out how can we make this work?  What's the best formula, the best approach to put this on and actually get an audience and to be successful.  So we would do whatever it takes to make it work.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1258              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  So it would knock your 20 percent share projection down if we licenced a similar classic rock?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1259              MR. MAHEU:  We'd probably end up splitting that share.  We'd probably grow the share maybe to 28, and then we'd both split it somehow to whatever degree that would be.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1260              COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.  Thank you very much, and thank you for your responses to my questions.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1261              Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1262              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Maheu and Commissioner Pennefather.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1263              Vice‑Chair Arpin...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1264              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Thank you, Mrs. Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1265              When I read your ‑‑ all of the applications for Medicine Hat and ‑‑ and the material prepared by staff, there were numerous references to the Suffield armed forces base, which is somewhere around 50 kilometers west ‑‑ northwest of ‑‑ of Medicine Hat.  And I also read that they do contribute somewhere close to $120 million to retail sales in the Medicine Hat market.  Is Suffield of some importance for your business plan?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1266              MR. MAHEU:  It would be of importance to the extent that we wanted a 100,000 watt signal so that we would be heard there, for sure, and because we believe that's important.  They are an important part of the community in terms of the retail sales and the local economy, so to that extent they are important, yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1267              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Now, in your programming plan, have you provided for some things specific for the armed force or ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1268              MR. MAHEU:  I think what you are ‑‑ our plan would be because they are an important part of the community, and especially now more than ever with what's going on around the world, I think that would be handled more in the spoken word area.  The reflection of the radio station, if we're going to be The Rock and some of these members of the forces are going to be our listeners, I think we need to be doing things on the radio station in terms of spoken word and featured spoken word that makes sense to them and that they can relate to and enjoy listening to.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1269              In terms of special programming musically for that specific group of people, that's probably something we would look at down the road.  I think the biggest thing though is to build an audience and to build some loyalty and partisanship with that constituency is through our spoken word, and being able to talk about things and report on things that are reflective of what they are doing and things that they would find interest in.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1270              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Thank you for your summary sheet.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1271              And I notice that you've provided me with my answer to my question regarding median age, which you've put at 48 years old.  The ‑‑ but your classic hits will carry more to female, while your classic rock portion of your hybrid programming, and even tribrid, with alternative rock, will cater more towards male.  Overall, will it be more male or female driven?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1272              MR. MAHEU:  Slightly more male than female in terms of music appeal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1273              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1274              MR. MAHEU:  We'll try to mitigate that because the market is of a size where you can do some things ‑‑ you have a little more flexibility, let's say, than in a major market.  And I think some of our commitment to spoken word and the kind of news and information that we're going to do on the radio station, although it's branded as a rock station, it's going ‑‑ as we mentioned, it's going to be a very mainstream accessible rock station, so that women who enjoy the slightly harder side of classic hits and rock are going to feel very much at home on this radio station.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1275              It's not going to be as much of a guy's radio station as you might hear ‑‑ as what we ‑‑ say what we do in Edmonton at K Rock, which is very focused on men.  This is going to be very much more of a mainstream approach in terms of production value, how we position it, the content of the news, the personalities, et cetera.  So women will feel at home, even though the music is not going to be liked as much by them as it is by men.  But we're still looking at an audience split of about 60/40 in terms of hours tuned.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1276              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Thank you very much.  Thank you, Mrs Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1277              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1278              Commissioner Cugini...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1279              COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Mr. Maheu and team, good morning.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1280              I just have a question to fine tune a little bit your format, and with a particular focus on the Canadian component, and perhaps an even finer tune on the 10 percent new or newer artists that you referred to earlier.  And the questioning really goes to the diversity of music choices available in the market.  You mentioned Sam Roberts, Arcade Fire, Mobile, and I know they're just as examples, and including the Tragically Hip.  But would you agree with me that I might be ‑‑ I might hear those bands on CFMY currently?  Like, you know, their format could accommodate Mobile or Arcade Fire or Sam Roberts?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1281              MR. MAHEU:  It could.  And those are only examples for sure, but ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1282              COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  So how extensive a list is there out there that would provide an opportunity for more exposure to more Canadian artists?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1283              MR. MAHEU:  Well, that's always the ‑‑ that's always the challenge when you're doing a gold based format, is, you know, looking at that part of the Broadcast Act where predominantly Canadian, and taking a look at the Canadian music that you can play.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1284              In a gold‑based format ‑‑ we're kind of cheating the gold‑based format here a little bit, and we're only doing that because ‑‑ to be forthright, because the market is small enough that you can do it.  If you try to do that kind of thing in a major market you'd really pay the price because you cannot be that wide.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1285              But in terms of the current component, there are a lot of good bands making good Canadian music today.  When we talk about Arcade Fire, for instance, on a classic rock radio station, that's a bit of a stretch because it leans ‑‑ active rock alternative, you know.  We play it on our alternative rock stations.  And, you know, it's a bit of a stretch, but we could play it because we're not going to be penalized in a market the size of Medicine Hat with ten other radio stations trying to carve up the pie where you have to be so right on the music all the time.  We can take a little licence there, so ‑‑ but in terms of finding an outlet for current Canadian performers, it's very difficult in gold‑based formats because it is what it is.  It's Guess Who, it's April Wine, it's Brian Adams, it's Triumph, you know, and all the usual great bands from the past.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1286              What we wanted to try to do here is to at least ‑‑ and we're doing this on a lot of our classic rock stations too, like in Edmonton and Cold Lake and even in Saint John's, Newfoundland, where traditionally these stations have been 100 percent pure classic rock gold, no currents, we've started to play and introduce some current Canadian music on those radio stations, as long as it fits the essence of the radio station, sort of sounds like it belongs.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1287              We'd be doing the same thing with the rock in Medicine Hat, where we would judiciously look at, you know, can we play a couple of new tracks from the Tragically Hip album?  Absolutely.  Sounds like classic rock, fits the essence of what we're trying to do.  Are there songs from Arcade Fire we could play?  Yes, yes, there are.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1288              And we want to do that partly because if don't we're going to be recycling the same gold list over and over and over again.  And it works with some degree of success in a lot of markets, but we're seeing through the music testing we're doing in markets of all sizes, that the life expectancy of some of that Canadian gold, because classic rock and classic hits is so popular now, is really starting to fade.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1289              Like, the like‑a‑lot scores are way down, the tired‑of scores are through the roof on a lot of those library titles that we've counted on.  So we've got to find new ways to re‑invent these gold‑based formats to accommodate the Canadian component, which is part of our responsibility, and we think the current portion is part of it.  And although we're only proposing about 10 percent of our sound be current, of that 10 percent, of 100 records or 100 songs that you'd hear on the radio station, 10 percent of them would be new, and of those ten, I would suggest that seven are going to be Canadian.  Seven to eight, to take a little bit of the heat off the gold library.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1290              COMMISSIONER CUGINI:  Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Maheu.  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1291              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  I have a few questions, and the first one is, and I noticed that in both your letters of the 14th of August and, I guess, the 20th, you talked about being live to air for 126 hours.  But of course you were at the Edmonton Hearing where I asked if you would agree to a COL on live to air during the 426 hours of the broadcast week.  And so today you say live and local at least 120 hours during the broadcast week, and you would agree to a COL saying you would be live to air at least 120 hours during the broadcast week?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1292              MR. MAHEU:  Yes, we would.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1293              THE CHAIRPERSON:  You were talking about money to Starmaker, and that you were asking that they would target it to Alberta to the extent that they can.  What is the extent that they can?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1294              MR. MAHEU:  It's ‑‑ it's pretty simple.  If there is an artist that meets the criteria for Radio Starmaker funding that particular year or time frame in the course of the year where the money is available, and they are from Alberta, they're going to get it.  In other words, if it comes down to an Alberta artist and an artist from some other part of Canada, and there's only so much money, our money is going to the Alberta artist.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1295              What Starmaker says though, and they are right, there are only so many artists that they look at each year that meets the criteria for number of units sold and to be eligible for that additional funding.  And if there's not an Alberta artist eligible that year, our money is just going to go into the general fund to promote Canadian talent to the next level.  But we've asked them that in case of a tie, or in case of an Alberta artist being available and eligible for funding, that our money be directed specifically to them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1296              And, you know, Nickelback was one of the first ‑‑ you know,there's an Alberta band that was one of the first beneficiaries of the Starmaker Fund that really took that band up a notch to the next level.  They've done very well.  We're hoping over the course of the seven years that we're sending this money to Starmaker on behalf of the Medicine Hat station, that there are at least a few years where there is an Alberta artist that will be able to take advantage of it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1297              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And would this money be incremental to that otherwise allocated by Starmaker?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1298              MR. MAHEU:  We're going to send them that cheque each year and we want to know what the money went for.  So, you know, obviously ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1299              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.  Can you ‑‑ do you have a letter from Starmaker saying what the extent possible really means?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1300              MR. MAHEU:  We have a ‑‑ we have a pretty good relationship with Starmaker.  We don't have a letter.  We can certainly get one.  We've got their say‑so on it.  But we can certainly get a letter and have it described, to the extent that they can, what that exactly means.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1301              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1302              MR. MAHEU:  But we ‑‑ we're operating on the assumption that we've always had with Starmaker in our conversations with them, that they have a certain number of candidates each year that meet their criteria for funding, they fund them accordingly.  And obviously we want, in the case of Medicine Hat, that if we have money available that we want it for somebody not only from Alberta, but from southern Alberta would be even better.  But that can't ‑‑ they can't always guarantee that.  But if you'd like a letter we could certainly file one.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1303              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1304              MR. MAHEU:  Okay.    

LISTNUM 95 \l 1305              THE CHAIRPERSON:  My next question is you didn't really answer Commissioner Pennefather when she said why did you beef up the news and not your non‑news spoken word programming?  In other words, you beefed up your news in response to satellite radio and et cetera, but you didn't beef up the community event updates, the public affairs reports, and ‑‑ I'm not talking about DJ talk, but, I mean, you didn't increase those.  And it would seem to me that on the news it would be far easier to recycle the same stories when you're increasing your news, as opposed to the community updates and public affairs reports that might require more staff input.  Is that why you only beefed up the news and not the non‑news programming?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1306              MR. MAHEU:  Not exactly.  We did not beef up the community event reports and the public affairs reports because we felt that 35 per week on each was pretty substantial to begin with.  We did feel though when we looked back on the amount of news that we were doing that given where we wanted to go and what we wanted to accomplish, it wasn't enough.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1307              In terms of, you know, whether it's easier to recycle news or it needs more work to be put into the updates and so on, I think it's a fair observation.  Our experience has been, and would be in Medicine Hat, we're trying to build long‑time spent listening, especially in a gold‑based format like a classic rock, classic hits hybrid, and we're going to have to do a better job, as we're starting to do in a lot of our locations, on taking a ‑‑ an approach to news where we're doing more rewrites, we're doing more ‑‑ we're out gathering more actualities, we're cutting them up differently so that the newscasts that you hear at 8:00 in the morning on our radio station in Medicine Hat will sound substantially different from the newscast your heard at 7:30 if you're listening, you know, over the course of 40 minutes, because any more ‑‑ the expectations are going up, especially in a small market.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1308              We're faced with this particular situation in Charlottetown, where we just, you know, converted CHTNA into FM, and it's a big station for news on the island.  And we were really surprised when we were converted there, the amount of time spent listening being done to the radio station.  They love it, and people are listening four, five, six hours straight, you know, and you can't keep rerunning the same newscast every hour.  Not only does it not sound very good, people won't tolerate it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1309              So in this particular case, that's why we're going to have three and a half people in the news department, because we're going to have to get people that know how to write, and we're going to take a much more proactive approach to going out and gathering news.  And technology helps us do that a lot these days as well, so we can get more actualities on the air and do a much better job of creating a news cast.  So the clip you heard of the mayer at 7:30 as part of story that was happening, it may be a different clip that you hear from the mayor at 8:00.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1310              So substantively, the newscast is the same news, but it's being presented in a slightly different way so you don't fatigue and get burned out on it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1311              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And my final question is, you were saying to my colleague that there would be a problem if a classic rock or classic hits format was also licenced.  The reality is, we don't regulate those, and it's going to be a race, isn't it?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1312              MR. MAHEU:  It would be a race to who could get on first and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1313              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And then the second person would just have to adjust?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1314              MR. MAHEU:  Would have to adjust, absolutely.  And that's why we go and do research and figure it out.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1315              Again, at the end of the day, we don't decide and the Commission really doesn't decide what format is going to be in a market, the listeners will decide what they want and how they want it.  And if we do our jobs properly we will give them what they want.  As long as it lives up to the spirit of what was intended originally, and that we honour our commitments and our promises and do a good job for the marketplace, and we would intend on doing that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1316              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1317              Counsel?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1318              MS BENNETT:  Thanks.  I just want to establish the filing dates for the letters that you agreed that you would file.  The letter ‑‑ or the written agreement with respect to the Alberta Music Showcase at the Canada Music Week, could you indicate when you could file that letter?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1319              MR. MAHEU:  Could a week from today be okay?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1320              MS BENNETT:  I think that's fine.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1321              MR. MAHEU:  Would that be all right?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1322              MS BENNETT:  And the second letter from Starmaker describing the extent to which they can target Alberta artists?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1323              MR. MAHEU:  Could we file that at the same time?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1324              MS BENNETT:  Okay.  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1325              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Steele, Mr. Maheu, Panel.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1326              We'll now take ‑‑ you have two minutes to tell us how wonderful you are and why you are better than everybody else.  I'm sorry.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1327              MR. MAHEU:  How about we take 40 seconds?  Just to sum up, thank you very much for hearing our proposal this morning.  I know you've got a very long week ahead of you, lots of applications, lots of good ideas for not only Medicine Hat, but for other markets as well.  We appreciate the opportunity to lead off this morning.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1328              To sum up, you know, for Medicine Hat we're proposing something that's a little bit different.  It is a hybrid.  It is something new that hasn't really been done a lot anywhere else.  We just want you to know, please, if you decide that this is the most worthy use of that frequency that we'll do a good job on it, we'll take the judicious care we need to do to put together a great radio station that delivers on the needs and wants of the people in Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1329              They've told us through the research clearly they want this kind of music in the marketplace.  We believe we have a very good track record of delivering this type of music in this format in markets this size and smaller.  We're very comfortable and excited about markets like Medicine Hat.  It's one we very much want to be a part of.  And if you give us the licence we promise we'll go in and roll up our sleeves and we'll do a very good job for the people of Medicine Hat.  You have our word on that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1330              Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1331              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Once again thank you, Mr. Steele, Mr. Maheu and panel.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1332              We'll now take 15 minutes.  By my watch that will be 20 after 11.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1105 / Suspension à 1105

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1120 / Reprise à 1120

LISTNUM 95 \l 1333              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order please.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1334              Madam Secretary...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1335              THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1336              We'll now proceed with item 2 on the agenda of this public hearing, which is an application by Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited to amend the licence of radio programming undertaking CJLT‑FM Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1337              The licencee proposes to amend the licence by changing the frequency from 99.5 megahertz (channel 258LP) to 93.7 megahertz (channel 229A).

LISTNUM 95 \l 1338              The licencee also proposes to change the authorized contours by increasing the effective radiated power from 48 to 2,300 watts, by relocating the transmitter and by increasing the antenna height (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 99.5 metres).

LISTNUM 95 \l 1339              Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Scott Raible.  And Mr. Raible, you will have 20 minutes for your presentation.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

LISTNUM 95 \l 1340              MR. RAIBLE:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1341              To the honourable members of the Commission and to others here at this hearing, good morning.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1342              Lighthouse Broadcasting has been broadcasting and serving Medicine Hat since April 2003 with a strong commitment to entertain and encourage the listeners of Medicine Hat through high quality Christian music and programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1343              As quoted by a letter from the Mayor of Medicine Hat written in support of our application for our technical amendment, CJLT‑FM has been a welcomed business in Medicine Hat providing a radio station with religious programming.  This business has been well received by the community since their commencement of broadcasting in our community.  Lighthouse Broadcasting supports the vision of Medicine Hat as being a Community of Choice providing alternate programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1344              We've been committed to Medicine Hat, providing free promotional assistance to non‑profit charitable organizations and local businesses just starting up.  Lighthouse Broadcasting also has local features such as local hero of the month featuring and supporting our local police and firefighters serving our communities.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1345              We also feature various non‑profit groups and organizations on the air supporting the different events that take place in our community.  We're also used by the Medicine Hat College for job showing opportunities in radio, as well as bringing local school choirs on the air.  And we're proud supporters of the Medicine Hat High School Dry Grad and the annual Medicine Hat Jazz Fest that takes place in the community every year.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1346              We've also been a platform for local and Canadian Christian bands that you can't hear anywhere else in Medicine Hat, such as Medicine Hat's own Cross Rock, Play it Again and Minister Joe C, and some of the national Canadian bands that we feature are Amanda Falk, Downhere, and Starfield, just to name a few.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1347              Indeed Lighthouse Broadcasting won the small business of the year for 2005 award as presented by Autracor(ph) and the Medicine Hat Chamber of Commerce.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1348              The one complaint that we have received over and over again was that our signal was not strong in many part of the city, even those that fall well within our 3.0 MV contour and our original map.  This became an issue both with listeners and advertisers, as a commercial licence and a station dedicated to providing our listeners with high quality programming, this of course has caused a problem.  Whereas in the end of the 2005 fiscal year we had a $12,000 profit, this past year we've had actually a deficit.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1349              The reason we heard back from advertisers is that our signal wasn't strong enough and they do not have confidence in the strength of our signal.  Many of them asked our sales team to come back once our signal is increased.  We've tried several ways to compensate that, unfortunately we are still fuzzy in many areas that we should reach according to our original map and some listeners complain they can't get us on their alarm clocks because they want to listen to us when they wake up in the morning, as well as even in their cars, and, again, in some areas that should be covered according to our original application.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1350              Our technical staff tells us that because of the coulees in Medicine Hat and recent construction, the only way to compensate is to increase our signal strength and broadcast from a higher location.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1351              As we, of course, are a commercial radio station, in order to remain economically viable it is imperative that we are able to cover our entire city effectively.  In response to our community, listeners and advertisers, we feel the best course of action is to increase our signal strength and relocate our transmitter to the CBC tower in the Cypress County area.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1352              We have approached CBC and they have given us written approval, upon condition of CRTC acceptance, to broadcast from their tower.  Pippin Technical, which provided our technical Brief, has been in constant contact with the engineers from CBC and has agreed that our proposed signal will be able to adequately cover our broadcast area and will not interfere with any existing frequencies.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1353              Industry Canada has also given us conditional approval for our amendment upon condition of the CRTC acceptance.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1354              We will remain committed to fulfil our commitment in our original application to the City of Medicine Hat.  Though we have requested a power boost, may I note, it is only enough to reach our city.  We are not asking for a 100,000 watt or even 20,000, we're asking for 2,300 watts in order to effectively serve our community.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1355              In our comparison chart, our contours are focused on Medicine Hat, and as our community is growing it will allow our signal to carry on into the new developments of Medicine Hat, as well as the existing areas that we should be reaching in our 3.0 MV contour, but currently are not.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1356              As stated in our application, Lighthouse Broadcasting will be willing to accept any reasonable conditions of licence in order to obtain a technical amendment to our broadcast licence.  As a condition of licence we would increase our commitment to the City of Medicine Hat by offering an annual scholarship of an additional $500 to local students who wish to pursue music at the Medicine Hat College.  This would be in addition to the $400 scholarship we are currently doing for Canadian talent development.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1357              I also want to take this moment and reaffirm Lighthouse Broadcasting's commitment to our Christian music format, and that the purpose of this power boost and technical amendment is to keep CJLT‑FM economically viable as a commercial radio station in Medicine Hat, and allow us to reach all of our current and potential listeners in our community with a strong, clear signal.  This is particularly important to us due to the potential of future radio station in our market.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1358              In closing, please let me read you the ten reasons we think you should approve Lighthouse Broadcasting's request for our technical amendment:

LISTNUM 95 \l 1359              ‑ (10) Lighthouse Broadcasting is the only applicant applying for this frequency;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1360              ‑ (9) As a condition of licence, Lighthouse Broadcasting will increase our CTD to a total of $900 to the Medicine Hat College, which will benefit local Medicine Hat musicians;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1361              ‑ (8) There are no negative interventions against our application;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1362              ‑ (7) This is our second attempt for this technical amendment, and Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited has responded to the Commission's request for more compelling reasons to grant us our request;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1363              ‑ (6) It will provide Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited an opportunity at economic stability, especially with the potential arrival of other stations in our market;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1364              ‑ (5) Lighthouse Broadcasting is the only station serving the Christian music format, and we are committed to the Christian music format, and of course would make it a condition of licence;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1365              ‑ (4) We are the only outlet for local, regional and Canadian musicians and artists of this format in Medicine Hat, and we support them by playing their music and promoting their events.  On average we have about 16 percent Cancon if not more than that;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1366              ‑ (3) Lighthouse Broadcasting is locally owned.  We provide local jobs;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1367              ‑ (2) We also promote community events and businesses;

LISTNUM 95 \l 1368              ‑ (1) And the most important reason to grant us our technical amendment is our listeners.  It will allow the listeners of Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited to receive a higher quality signal of the desired music and programming, especially those in areas outlined in our original application, but are not currently able to receive the signal, and therefore more adequately meeting the need for a Christian music format in Medicine Hat.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1369              On behalf of Lighthouse Broadcasting, I thank you in advance for consideration of this request and I look forward to your questions.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1370              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1371              Commissioner Williams.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1372              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Good morning.  Is it Mr. Raible?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1373              MR. RAIBLE:  Mr. Raible.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1374              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Raible.  Your application and your presentation to us this morning were quite thorough, however we have a few questions of clarification for you this morning and we will try to work our way through them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1375              In decision 2003‑12 you were licenced to serve the City of Medicine Hat, and in your current application for technical change you indicate that the station's principal marketing activities as a result of your increase in power will be directed towards the communities of Medicine Hat, Redcliff, Bow Island and Dunmore, all of which lie within the new proposed contours.  I also note that the proposed five millivolt contour would include other communities, such as Bullshead, Bowell, and Vale.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1376              Hypothetically, let's say you were approached by a community group in Red Cliff, Dunmore, Bow Island or Vale asking you to cover a church dance or maybe a recital.  Your station is creating interest in these communities.  You have stated that your personal marketing activities under this new technical proposal would include these communities.  Would you ‑‑ would you reorient a portion of your local reflection programming to include content relevant to these new communities?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1377              MR. RAIBLE:  Definitely.  In fact, what we have done currently right now, because parts of Red Cliff are able to get us a little bit, we have been bringing on Red Cliff organizations to support their events, like Red Cliff Days.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1378              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Could you explain your need to reflect these additional communities in your local and spoken word programming?  Since your stated rationale in applying for this technical amendment is to increase your signal strength to address coverage deficiency specific to Medicine Hat and your ability to serve Medicine Hat as you were originally licenced.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1379              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.  Let's see if I can answer this correctly.  By serving Medicine Hat and by reflecting on what's happening in Medicine Hat as well we could also reflect what's happening in Dunmore and Red Cliff.  Things that happen in Medicine Hat usually affect those outlying communities as well.  At the same time we will be able to actually communicate what's happening in those communities to the greater city at large.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1380              By ‑‑ what we have currently now, we have ‑‑ we would invite local groups from those areas to come on.  During our morning show we actually have a spot every Friday morning where local groups can come on and explain to our listeners what's happening, so they would be included in that.  Also we have a feature where local ministers or pasters from various denominations come and have one week free of doing what we call an on‑air devotional, and ministers from those communities would be invited as well to partake of that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1381              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  For the record, if your proposal was approved would you maintain the current conditions of licence as set out in your licence and the appended decision 2003‑12?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1382              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.  That was loud.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1383              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  I note in your deficiency response dated 26 October 2005, you indicated you would devote $500 a year towards a music scholarship to the Medicine Hat College.  Who will be responsible for the allocation of the funds, and how will the recipients be chosen?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1384              MR. RAIBLE:  Lighthouse Broadcasting would be giving the money to the Medicine Hat College Scholarship Foundation, and what would happen is the requirements to obtain that scholarship would have to be based on the fact they'd be applying to go to Medicine Hat College, be a member of the music program, and then myself with a couple other members of the Medicine Hat Cultural Centre and community would try and determine the best qualified applicant from those requirements.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1385              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  What criteria would you be using to choose the best qualified applicant?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1386              MR. RAIBLE:  Again, we'd be looking to make sure they were applying for a music program at the Medicine Hat College and we'd be looking at their dedication and various aspects like that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1387              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Could you comment on ‑‑ please comment on the commission imposing a conditional licence requiring that you make equal annual payments over seven consecutive broadcast years to the CTD initiative you've targeted, totalling $3,500?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1388              MR. RAIBLE:  I'm sorry, I didn't quite hear the question.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1389              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Could you please comment on the Commission imposing a condition of licence requiring that you make equal annual payments over seven consecutive broadcast years to the CTD initiative that you have targeted totalling 3,500?  If it became a conditional licence.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1390              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes, we would definitely do it, yes.  We would accept that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1391              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Under the CAB plan as conditional licence, annual CTD payments by Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited for a small market station should be 400 per year.  I had a question ‑‑ I had a question prepared that was to ask you ‑‑ ask you that it appeared that no payments have been made, but we received this document just this morning, stating that you're pleased to inform the Medicine Hat College Foundation has received a cheque for $800 from Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited, and these funds will be used to provide scholarships for students enrolled in the Medicine Hat College Conservatory of Music Academy Program for 2005/2006 academic years.  When was this payment made?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1392              MR. RAIBLE:  The payment was made actually on Friday.  And if I can clarify what happened there, we made this agreement with the college in 2005, and we felt ‑‑ we thought everything was organized and ready to go.  I guess they didn't proceed with it, they were waiting for a fax I guess they didn't get, but they didn't tell us about it.  So we've been under the impression that we've been having this going for the last two years.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1393              When the request came from the CRTC to obviously provide proof and documentation, we went ahead to get that, only to find out that they had everything ready from 2005, but they didn't proceed with it and didn't notify us that they had not.  So we got a hold of them immediately and settled ‑‑ asked what had happened.  They explained, and so we, anyway, paid for 2005 and 2006.  And we've asked that they would be able to explain that to you as well, should you have any questions, because we were quite surprised to find that out.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1394              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay, thank you.  In CRTC Broadcasting decision 2004‑549, the Commission denied a previous application by you for a change in frequency and an increase in transmitter power.  In that decision, the Commission stated you had not presented compelling evidence of either economic or technical need for the proposed changes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1395              With respect to economic need ‑‑ just give me a second while I find the information you provided.  Can you tell us how your revenues and expenditures during your first two years of operation may have differed from those projected in your original business plan and where they have differed, provide us some reasons.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1396              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.  I guess projections are never as accurate as when you're actually on the ground running a radio station, so for us ‑‑ for myself, experience has probably been the greatest teacher of what expenditures are real and what you can expect from economic forecasts.  So for us it was a real learning curve.  However, things were very well in 2005 as far as we were considering, but due to the fact that our advertisers could no longer have confidence in our signal, we found they weren't renewing, and it was simply because of the fact of the weakness of our signal strength.  So we have confidence that once we can get our technical boost we can retain and regain the advertisers we had, for example, in 2005.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1397              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Based on the information you've provided me here, you seem to have suffered a revenue drop of between 15 and 20 percent; would that be fair over those ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1398              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1399              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  ‑‑ the time period we're talking about?  Okay.  Now, you said experience is a good teacher in terms of projections.  Can you please tell us how you arrived at the revenue projections you included in this application?  For example, what factors did you take into account projecting the amount of local advertising revenue?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1400              MR. RAIBLE:  We're looking at ‑‑ when we originally made the application in 2005, we were looking at several of the ‑‑ I guess what ‑‑ sorry.  I guess we were looking at what we were currently generating at the time and what we could potentially get.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1401              Things have changed in the last fiscal year.  We weren't ‑‑ I guess we honestly weren't counting on our signal not being as strong as it was, and so we were faced, I guess, in a situation we didn't count on being in.  And the importance of our technical amendment has really been stressed this past fiscal year, which is why I included in that package not just a copy of our 2005 fiscal year, but our 2006 as well, so you can see the drop in revenue.  And when we've gone back to our advertisers, they keep on mentioning the signal strength.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1402              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  In our decision 2004‑549, the Commission denied a previous application for a change in frequency and in increase in transmitter power.  In that decision the Commission stated you had not presented compelling evidence of the technical need for these proposed changes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1403              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1404              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Could you please describe the changes which resulted in the submission of this new application that occurred since the Commission's last decision on Lighthouse Broadcasting, which also was based on a proposal to change the authorized contour by increasing the effect of radiated power and antenna height?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1405              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1406              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  What's changed since the last time?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1407              MR. RAIBLE:  What we've tried to do is we've tried to include, I guess, a clear picture, both from our listeners as well as with comparative maps, to show you that areas that we should be getting in our original application in our 3 MV contour, we're just not getting them.  Key main areas we're just not reaching.  So we're hoping to show that with the overlay, that this signal strength will obviously get those key areas, and at the same time, we believe we're still serving Medicine Hat and area.  We're not serving any other major markets.  We're keeping true to our original intent of the original application, which is to serve Medicine Hat with high quality programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1408              We've also tried to provide information from Pippin Tech.  And again, I believe if you look at the positive letters of support from our listeners, they'll mention over and over again that they ‑‑ the reason they're supporting us in this decision is because they want to hear us in their homes and in their basement, and many of those positive interventions are within the 3 MV contour.  We didn't have that information in our last application.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1409              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Your answers have satisfied my list of questions here.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1410              I'm completed, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1411              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1412              Vice‑Chair Arpin...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1413              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1414              You have showed us a map that you have in your hand.  Is it one of the maps that you put in your folder?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1415              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.  If you look in your ‑‑ in the package on the back tab, the first map will be of our original ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1416              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  The Pippin map, yeah, which is the original technical ‑‑ taken out of the original technical brief that you submitted?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1417              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1418              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  And what you're saying is that even in the interior of your 3 microvolt per metre, the coverage is not good enough, so even people don't ‑‑ can't listen to the station in their home, particularly in their basement, as you said?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1419              MR. RAIBLE:  Or in their base ‑‑ in their businesses.  We have clients, for example, who live on 3rd Street ‑‑ who have businesses, sorry, on 3rd Street, and other areas right in the middle of our 3 MV contour, would love to play our station, especially if they're advertising with us, but they can't.  Every time they get a fuzzy signal they question whether they should be advertising with us.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1420              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Exactly, okay.  Now, on your covering page of the document that you gave us this morning, which went ‑‑ which is going in the public record?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1421              MS BENNETT:  Sorry, could you repeat the question?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1422              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  The document that we received, it's totally going into the public record?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1423              MS BENNETT:  Yes.  I have a couple of questions to clarify exactly what we've got, but the documents will be put on the top of the licencee's file.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1424              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Okay, fine.  Now, you addressed ‑‑ you said earlier today that ‑‑ how many employees ‑‑ you're locally owned and you provide local jobs.  How many employees do you have?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1425              MR. RAIBLE:  Including myself, we have seven local employees.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1426              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  And how many are on air?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1427              MR. RAIBLE:  Five of them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1428              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Five of them?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1429              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1430              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  And including yourself?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1431              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1432              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  You also provided us with financial material regarding the year ‑‑ your profit and loss financials for the year 2006.  And could I question you on those financials?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1433              MR. RAIBLE:  If you like to you can, and I'll do my very best to answer them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1434              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Because I'm seeing, and you provided us ‑‑ there are two lines that I wonder if you could help me in getting more details.  You have travel, and you have a $12,000 expense under travel, which for a station of your size, seems to me somehow significant and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1435              MR. RAIBLE:  As you can tell, I don't handle the finances at the station, but I'll do my very best to answer that.  I believe that included not just travel, but anything promotional to do with the station as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1436              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  You have another line that is called promotion somewhere ‑‑ somewhere up there.  I've noticed that you have sales promotions with another $5,000.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1437              MR. RAIBLE:  Mmhmm.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1438              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  If you can't answer, could you provide us with an answer, say, within the next week?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1439              MR. RAIBLE:  Definitely.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1440              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Written answer?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1441              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1442              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  I also have a similar question regarding line 54, 55, which is donations.  And again, I have a fairly big number under donations.  Do you know what that is all about?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1443              MR. RAIBLE:  That I can explain.  Obviously we're a Christian radio station, so our religious beliefs, I guess, are ‑‑ motivate everything that we do.  So what we do is we give back to the community, and so we believe in tagging 10 percent back to local churches and charities.  No matter what, how much money we make, that's what we do.  So that is the reason for that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1444              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Okay, that's fine, no problem.  I don't see anywhere bad debts because you don't have any bad debts, your clients are paying correctly?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1445              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.  And ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1446              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Lucky you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1447              MR. RAIBLE:  We've got good clients.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1448              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  You've got good clients.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1449              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1450              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1451              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1452              Thank you, Mr. Raible.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1453              So it is ‑‑ and I also notice that in the year before you have travel of 15,000, so I'd ask you to explain both?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1454              MR. RAIBLE:  Definitely.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1455              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And why they would be legitimate business expenses.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1456              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1457              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And I ask you then secondly, why we should consider the donations as a legitimate business expense, when it is not generally a business expense in radio stations?  I mean, you're saying we're not profitable or won't be profitable, but at the same time you have 20,000 in each year as a ‑‑ as an expense, and why should we consider for you it's a legitimate expense when we don't habitually do that?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1458              MR. RAIBLE:  Again, we do that for ‑‑ I don't know how this sounds.  We do this for religious conscience or whatever.  What I could do is I could actually find out why we consider it an expense when I talk to my accountant, but I just know that's what we have done as a principle of business, is just take ten percent off every month what we make, off the top, and we donate it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1459              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.  Yeah, if you could ‑‑ if you could ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1460              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1461              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, I'm confused as to when you actually went on air.  The decision was issued 21 January 2003.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1462              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1463              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Today you say you've been on air since April '03.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1464              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1465              THE CHAIRPERSON:  In your Supplementary Brief at page 1 you said 2002, at page 1.  And subsequently you said you've been broadcasting for two years.  So ‑‑ that's your Supplementary Brief, I'm sorry.  Your application said since 2002, your Supplementary Brief said you've been broadcasting for two years.  Tell me when did you really go on the air?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1466              MR. RAIBLE:  I believe we were approved in January 2003.  We were on the air in April 2003, very quickly right after that.  I apologize for any oversight, for any confusion that would be in that application, but we have been on the air since April 2003.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1467              THE CHAIRPERSON:  So did you file your annual report as required by the regs for that year at the end ‑‑ effective the end of August?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1468              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1469              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And did you pay CTD that year?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1470              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1471              THE CHAIRPERSON: And to whom did you pay it?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1472              MR. RAIBLE:  I would have to double check and see who we paid it to, but I know we did.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1473              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Why do you know you did?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1474              MR. RAIBLE:  Because it's a condition of licence, so I remember us doing that, but then after ‑‑ for 2005 we decided we needed a better Canadian Talent Development plan, and we felt that the scholarships, after talking to other radio stations in similar markets, would be a ‑‑ a better use of the money.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1475              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1476              MR. RAIBLE:  Of the CTD.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1477              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Our information was that was your annual report for 2003 was not filed.  Could you provide us with a copy of that within a week?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1478              MR. RAIBLE:  Definitely.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1479              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And did you then file your annual report for 2004, for the year ending August 31, 2004?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1480              MR. RAIBLE:  Again, yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1481              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Our information is you did not.  Can you provide us a copy of that within one week?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1482              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.  You bet you.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1483              THE CHAIRPERSON:  So then you say ‑‑ so in the year 2004, you say again that you made ‑‑ you paid your CTD?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1484              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1485              THE CHAIRPERSON:  For both 2003 and 2004, can you provide us with a copy of the cheque showing that you paid the CTD?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1486              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.  Yes, we will, within a week.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1487              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And then you say you decided to go to Medicine Hat College?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1488              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1489              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And you did that, but they didn't proceed with it.  Why didn't you write a cheque that would then push them to proceed with it?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1490              MR. RAIBLE:  Good question.  Again, I don't handle the financial end of the business.  We had made all the arrangements on the telephone.  They had faxed us a contract, we had faxed a contract back, and I was under the impression that it was taken care of and that my financial department would look after any invoices that came in.  I guess I have to do a much better job boning up and making sure in the future that things get taken care of.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1491              When it came to our intention last week that it hadn't been taken care of, we contacted them.  We wanted to find out what had happened.  They, for whatever reason, didn't let us know.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1492              Again, it's our responsibility.  We took care of it the minute we found out, and we provided ‑‑ we paid for 2005 and 2006, and we have proof of that payment as well.  But again, I do apologize, we should have been much more on the ball in that one and that's my fault.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1493              THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's your condition of licence?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1494              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1495              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mmhmm.  If indeed it appears that our records show you did not file your annual reports for 2003 and 2004, it also appears that you have remedied your non‑compliance in terms of your CTD recently, habitually the Commission is not inclined to grant people relief if they are in non‑compliance.  Why would we grant you relief if you were in non‑compliance?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1496              MR. RAIBLE:  I guess we would ‑‑ we would not knowingly be in non‑compliance.  We want to comply to every ‑‑ everything you ask us to do.  You've asked us to do reasonable conditions of licences, and so we want to meet those.  And all I can promise to the CRTC, and I guess I have to show it by my actions, is that much more professional and making sure we commit and keep and follow‑up on every commitment and condition of licence that is granted to us.  And you would definitely see that, no matter if you give us the application ‑‑ the request for amendment or not, we will definitely be better at doing that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1497              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Raible.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1498              Oh, Vice‑Chair Arpin...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1499              VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN:  Filing of annual returns is a part of the regulation book, and so ‑‑ and it is very important that you file your annual return because we're collecting the information and providing statistics for all the broadcasters in this country, and we're publishing on a yearly basis and monitoring the report that is used largely by various groups, including the OACD.  And it's very important that the numbers that we're providing those are complete and are showing the real picture how broadcasting is in this country.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1500              If you will make sure that in the future to provide your annual return in due time.  They're due each year at the latest on November 30th of each year, and it is ‑‑ it is a very important tool for managing the ‑‑ the broadcasting system.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1501              MR. RAIBLE:  If I may, I remember ‑‑ I know we did the 2003/2004 annual return because I remember being helped very patiently by ‑‑ by employees of the CRTC.  So that's why I know it was done because I remember how patient they were with us figuring out how to do it.  So we will find out for whatever reason why you don't have a copy, because I remember us doing it.  And I know when I talked to Kim last week, she said there were some problems with some faxing of things back in that time.  Again, I'm not sure, but we will make sure that you get 2003/2004.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1502              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Along with proof of when you filed it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1503              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 1504              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Williams...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1505              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Just one more question of clarification on your donations.  The donations are to be 10 percent of your gross revenue; is that correct?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1506              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes, every month.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1507              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Maybe when you speak with your accountant then, he seems to have donated a little more than 10 percent.  It's probably ‑‑ probably almost 10 percent over contribution.  You might want to check his math on that one as well because it is affecting your bottom line in a negative manner.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1508              MR. RAIBLE:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1509              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1510              THE CHAIRPERSON:  I'm sorry, I have another question, Mr. Raible.  When Commissioner Williams was asking you questions, I thought the whole essence of your argument on lack of coverage was that in the first year you broadcast your advertisers thought your coverage was better than it was.  Is that your point?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1511              MR. RAIBLE:  In our first couple years, advertisers were just excited that there was another alternative to radio in Medicine Hat, and many of them really liked the idea of Christian music programming.  However, over the years, as they were listening and getting feedback from their clients ‑‑ from their customers, the responses seemed to be, yeah, we listen to it live, but not in our cars because we can't get it in certain areas or we can't get it into our businesses.  So when terms came up for renewal, we noticed consistently businesses saying, you know, we like what you're doing, we like the sound, but we just don't have confidence in the consistency of your signal to get all of Medicine Hat.  And so because of that, we noticed advertising revenue slowly dropping off, and then especially when they had the BSE crisis in Medicine Hat, we really felt that as businesses were being very careful with their advertising dollars, wanting to go with stations that had clear coverage across the community.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1512              I know we've tried many different days to make do with what we have because we want to be good stewards of what we have.  Again and again we keep on hearing that we need to increase our signal strength so people can get it consistently in their cars in the City of Medicine Hat, in their homes and in their business.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1513              THE CHAIRPERSON:  So when we get your annual ‑‑ copies of your annual reports as filed, we will notice a consistent decrease in advertising income over the years; is that correct?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1514              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1515              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1516              Counsel...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1517              MS BENNETT:  Thanks.  I have one substantive follow‑up question, and just a couple of housekeeping matters just to sort out what we've got here to put on the file.  But the first question is just a substantive question on the number of people that would be within the proposed contour.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1518              So could you just confirm that approval of your application would increase the population covered by your 3 millivolt per metre contour from 35,000 people to just over 66,000?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1519              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes, that would be correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1520              MS BENNETT:  Okay, thank you.  Now, I just want to go to sort of nailing down all of the things that will be filed, but firstly I want to just confirm that what we have here in the package that you filed today on page 4 and page 5, are the revised annual returns for the years ending August 31st, 2005 and 2006, that were requested by the Commission staff; is that correct?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1521              MR. RAIBLE:  Yeah, I don't know ‑‑ I don't believe 2006 was, but 2005 definitely was.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1522              MS BENNETT:  Okay.  Now, have these been filed separately with the Commission, or is it your expectation that we will forward this to them, monitoring ‑‑ or the annual return group?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1523              MR. RAIBLE:  2005 has already been submitted with all the information.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1524              MS BENNETT:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1525              MR. RAIBLE:  And 2006 will be as well, but 2005 they already have it, Kim already has it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1526              MS BENNETT:  Okay, thank you.  Now, just to go back through some of the things that you've agreed to file this morning.  Firstly, you agreed to file a clarification on the 10 percent profit that goes back to the community.  Could you indicate when you could file that information?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1527              MR. RAIBLE:  Within one week.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1528              MS BENNETT:  Okay.  Now, secondly, you have agreed to file the annual reports for the years ending August 31st, 2003 and 2004, with a proof of when you filed those returns.  When will you do that?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1529              MR. RAIBLE:  Within a week as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1530              MS BENNETT:  One week, okay.  And lastly, it was the copies of the cheques for payment of CTD for the years 2003, 2004, I believe?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1531              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1532              MS BENNETT:  Yes.  Is that one week as well?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1533              MR. RAIBLE:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1534              MS BENNETT:  Okay.  Thank you, I believe that's everything.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1535              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  You now have your two minutes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1536              MR. RAIBLE:  Again, I just want to thank you so much for the CRTC ‑‑ for hearing our request for a technical amendment for Lighthouse Broadcasting.  We believe that this technical amendment will not only improve economic stability for Alive 99.5, but also improve the quality that our clients and our listeners can receive of their favourite Christian Canadian and other music.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1537              Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1538              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Raible.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1539              Madam secretary, do you have anything to add to the record at this moment?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1540              THE SECRETARY:  No, madam chair.  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1541              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  We will take a one‑hour lunch break, which means we will reconvene at 1:05.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1205 / Suspension à 1205

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1305 / Reprise à 1305

LISTNUM 95 \l 1542              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order, please.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1543              Madam Secretary...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 1544              THE SECRETARY:  Before ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 1545              THE CHAIRPERSON:  We are presently experiencing technical difficulties, please standby.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1546              THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1547              Before we introduce the next application, I would just like to clarify ‑‑ to indicate for the record that the letter dated October 30th from the foundation coordinator with respect to the Lighthouse Broadcasting application that we heard prior to the lunch, will be placed on the application file of Lighthouse Broadcasting.

LISTNUM 95 \l 1548              And we now proceed to item 3 on the agenda, which is an application by Golden West Broadcasting Limited for a licence to operate an English language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Medicine Hat.  The new station would operate on frequency 101.5 megahertz (channel 268C1) with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 96.0 metres).

LISTNUM 95 \l 1549