TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

             THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

               TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

 

 

 

 

             TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES AVANT

                CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

           ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

 

 

                          SUBJECT:

 

 

 

VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /

PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION

 

 

 

 

 

HELD AT:                              TENUE À:

 

Delta Regina                          Delta Regina

1919 Saskatchewan Drive               1919, promenade Saskatchewan

Regina, Saskatchewan                  Regina, Saskatchewan

 

November 1, 2006                      le 1 novembre 2006

 

 

 

 

 

Transcripts

 

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

 

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

 

 

 

 

Transcription

 

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

 

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

               Canadian Radio‑television and

               Telecommunications Commission

 

            Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

               télécommunications canadiennes

 

 

                 Transcript / Transcription

 

 

                             

              VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /

            PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION

                             

 

 

 

 

BEFORE / DEVANT:

 

Barbara Cram                      Chairperson / Présidente

Michel Arpin                      Vice-Chair, Broadcasting / Vice‑président, radiodiffusion

Rita Cugini                       Commissioner / Conseillère

Ronald Williams                   Commissioner / Conseiller

Joan Pennefather                  Commissioner / Conseillère

 

 

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

 

Chantal Boulet                    Secretary / Secrétaire

Leanne Bennett                    Legal Counsel /

Conseillère juridique

Lyne Cape                         Hearing Manager /

Gérante de l'audience

 

 

HELD AT:                          TENUE À:

 

Delta Regina                      Delta Regina

1919 Saskatchewan Drive           1919, promenade Saskatchewan

Regina, Saskatchewan              Regina, Saskatchewan

 

November 1, 2006                  le 1 novembre 2006

                           - iv -

 

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

 

                                                 PAGE / PARA

 

REGINA - PHASE I

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

 

Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc. (AVR)                764 / 3743

 

Natotawin Broadcasting Inc.                       857 / 4245

 

 

 

REGINA - PHASE II

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

 

(no appearances)

 

 

REGINA - PHASE III

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

 

Rawlco Radio Ltd.                                 915 / 4596

 

Communications Management Inc.                    927 / 4655

 

Hospitals of Regina Foundations Inc.              971 / 4889

 

Paul Martin Communications                        975 / 4913

 

Neil Meckelborg                                   987 / 4979

 

MapleMusic & Open Road Recordings                 998 / 5034

 

The Good Brothers                                1003 / 5057

 

The Poverty Plainsmen                            1005 / 5067

 

Birdsong Communications                          1007 / 5074

 

Jennifer Jade Kerr                               1021 / 5149

 

Zbitnew and Associates                           1030 / 5186

 

Lighthouse To All Nations                        1036 / 5208

 

Shelan Schnell                                   1042 / 5231

 

Regina Evangelical Ministerial Association       1046 / 5248

 

Harvard Broadcasting Inc.                        1052 / 5277

                           - v -

 

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

 

                                                 PAGE / PARA

 

REGINA - PHASE IV

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

 

Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc.                     1067 / 5368

 

Radio CJVR Ltd.                                  1068 / 5374

 

Touch Canada Broadcasting Inc.                   1069 / 5381

 

Standard Radio Inc.                              1073 / 5403

 

Newcap Inc.                                      1082 / 5459

 

 

 

SASKATOON - PHASE I

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

 

Newcap Inc.                                      1090 / 5494

         Regina, Saskatchewan / Regina (Saskatchewan)

‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Wednesday, November 1, 2006

    at 0830 / L'audience débute le mercredi

    1 novembre 2006 à 0830

LISTNUM 95 \l 1 \s 37353735             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order please.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13736             Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.  Today of course is day one of Gainer‑Gate.  Gainer has been punted from McMahon Stadium.  The province is in shock and awe.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 95 \l 13737             THE CHAIRPERSON:  As you know, of course ‑‑ and I'll give you non‑CFL speak ‑‑ the Roughriders' mascot, Gainer the Gopher has been expelled for the play‑off game this weekend.  The province is just aghast.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13738             Nonetheless, I'll pass it over to Madam Secretary.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13739             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13740             Good morning everyone.  We will now proceed with item 15 on the agenda which is an application by Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc., AVR, for a licence to operate an English and Aboriginal‑language Native type B FM radio undertaking in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13741             The new station would operate on frequency 96.1 megahertz, channel 241C, with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts, non‑directional antenna, antenna height of 146.2 metres.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13742             Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Lewis Cardinal who will introduce his colleagues.  You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation.  Please go ahead ‑‑ Mr. Hill will introduce his colleagues.  My apologies.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

LISTNUM 95 \l 13743             MR. HILL:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13744             I'd like to say good morning to everyone.  It's very nice to be here before you today.  Chair, Members of the Commission, Commission staff, colleagues and broadcasters and ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jamie Hill.  I'm the president of the Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13745             We are particularly excited about your appearance before the Commission today in support of our application for a new radio service for the historic city of Regina.  I would like to now introduce to you the members of the AVR team.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13746             On your far right is Lewis Cardinal, the vice president of AVR.  Lewis is an Aboriginal relations consultant to the City of Edmonton.  He is also the founder and president of the newly informed ‑‑ newly formed Indigenous Media Institute and the founder and co‑Chair of the Global Indigenous Dialogue.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13747             As well, Lewis is a recent recipient of the Alberta Centennial Medal for his work in diversity, multiculturalism, and human rights and is this year being honoured with the National Aboriginal Achievement Award for Community Service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13748             Beside Lewis is J. Robert Wood, AVR's management consultant.  Bob has provided management consulting services for some of Canada's largest broadcasters from coast to coast.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13749             Prior to that, he spent 17 years in the CHUM Group as national program director and manager of CHUM and CHUM‑FM.  He led the CHUM team in the establishment of FACTOR and was one of the first broadcasters inducted into the Canadian Music Industry Hall of Fame.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13750             On my right is Roy Hennessy, AVR's general manager.  Roy has served as general manager of a number of Standard and Moffat stations in Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.  He is a past president of FACTOR, has served on many industry boards and was recognized for his contribution to the broadcasting industry as a recipient of the first annual President's Award by the Ontario Association of Broadcasters.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13751             Beside Roy is Patrice Mosseau, AVR's program director and on‑air host.  Patrice has served on FACTOR selection committees and is a member of Canadian Women in Communications and is a multiple award recipient for her work in radio.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13752             Patrice is also very active in her community as vice president of the board for the Native Women's Resource Centre in Toronto.  She is a member of the Metis and Ojibwe Nations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13753             And on your far left is Grant Buchanan of McCarthy Tetrault LLP, our legal counsel.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13754             As for myself, in addition to serving as president of AVR, I am a co‑founder of Knapp Media Inc.  We publish a magazine, the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian.  The magazine is the most widely circulated Native magazine in the world.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13755             Previously I served as communications and information systems analyst for the chiefs of Ontario and worked as a director of economic development for the Ontario Federation of Indian Friendship Centres.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13756             We would like to acknowledge the Saulteaux, Cree and Assiniboine people in whose traditional territories we are gathered today.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13757             We also want to recognize the Metis people as well as the kind people of Regina.  We would like to thank all of them for the graciousness we have been afforded so far.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13758             I would now like to begin our formal presentation.  The board of directors of AVR and I, are of one mind, that the building of a national network of radio stations that brings together the hopes and dreams of Aboriginal people is a necessity.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13759             We know that the Commission has heard from AVR many times on this subject and that the Commission has granted AVR a licence on each occasion that it has been requested.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13760             We know you have agreed with AVR's vision in the past and we respectfully ask that you do so again here in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13761             We are in the midst of creating the first national Aboriginal radio network in the world.  The Canadian Broadcasting system has the resources to allow this to occur and the Broadcasting Act says that when that moment arrives, service should be extended.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13762             As you know, AVR has a unique profile.  It is a national service with a national network licence, but it has a much bigger role to fill as the plan is to offer local service in many Canadian urban centres.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13763             The national network acts as a badly needed bridge from one Aboriginal community to another and allows for discourse, healing and the exchange of stories and events between Aboriginal people across the country.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13764             It is essential that the Aboriginal community here in Regina join the other Aboriginal communities across Canada in the AVR solution.  Regina has an estimated population hovering around the 200,000 mark, of which Aboriginal people number close to 10 percent or 20,000.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13765             In the 2001 Statistics Canada Aboriginal people survey there were 9,880 North American Indians and 4,110 Metis people.  The current national trend of migration of Aboriginal people to urban areas is a fast rising ‑‑ and a fast rising birth rate dictates an expected population surge in Regina now and in the future with some demographers predicting up to 50 percent First Nations population in Saskatchewan within a few generations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13766             MR. CARDINAL:  There are 12 radio stations on air in Regina and virtually no Aboriginal presence on any of then.  Our new AVR Regina station will dramatically increase the diversity of radio programming in the market by immediately introducing a radio service dedicated to reflecting the needs and interests of Regina's First Nations, Inuit, and Metis communities.  This new service will be a tremendous benefit to those community members and a real alternative.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13767             It is difficult for me to contemplate a national Aboriginal service like AVR without Regina in it.  Moreover, there is a significant pent up demand for the programming featured on AVR.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13768             A research report conducted for AVR by Peter Doering Consultants in November of 1999, that survey of Canadians revealed a number of compelling statistics.  Canadians from coast to coast overwhelmingly approve of an Aboriginal national radio service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13769             Indeed, the respondents from the City of Regina were 90 percent in favour of the AVR network.  A very large percentage of those Regina respondents agreed the following goals were important for AVR to achieve.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13770             First goal, provide exposure and support appreciation for Aboriginal culture.  Ninety‑seven percent of Regina respondents agreed with that.  Increase understanding between Aboriginal and non‑Aboriginal Canadians, 92 percent agreed with that.  Help sensitive ‑‑ help sensitize the wider community regarding the interests and concerns of Aboriginal Canadians, 91 percent.  Encourage Aboriginal self‑sufficiency, 90 percent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13771             AVR is concerned about the great possibility of many Aboriginal languages becoming extinct.  There are between 53 and 70 known Aboriginal languages, but many are only used by elders and will die with them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13772             In addition to the promotion of Aboriginal Canadian languages in the English language portion of this schedule, AVR will, as it does in every other market, ensure that no less than 2 percent of all programming during the broadcast week be spoken word programming in an Aboriginal Canadian language and no less than 2 percent of all vocal musical selections played during each broadcast week in an Aboriginal Canadian language.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13773             I am pleased to advise the Commission that last month, Mr. Ron Ignace, the Chair of the task force in Aboriginal languages initiative joined AVR's board of directors where his expertise will be greatly appreciated and will be invaluable.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13774             The two Aboriginal language conditions of licence mentioned above, together with the requirement that a minimum of 25 percent of all programming be spoken word programming, including news, and a minimum of 35 percent of all musical selections from category 2 be Canadian selections, played in their entirety, have formed the backbone of the regulatory underpinning of AVR's many services.  AVR meets or exceeds all of these thresholds and will continue to do so.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13775             Chair and Members of the Commission, for a national Aboriginal service to be effective, it must be able to both send and receive programming of relevance from a variety of communities in Canada and not just from Toronto.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13776             So we believe strongly in local Aboriginal content.  Moreover, it is vital that the Aboriginal community be able to access the service as Aboriginal people constitute an impoverished subset of Canadian society, free over‑the‑air local radio will remain their primary source for many years to come.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13777             Finally, it is worth recalling that AVR features virtually 100 percent Aboriginal programming during the broadcast week.  Ours is not a cross‑subsidy model.  We are a truly Aboriginal service each and every broadcast day.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13778             I would like to ask Patrice to speak more about after the programming plans for AVR Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13779             MS MOUSSEAU:  AVR radio service in Regina will offer a varied programming menu.  AVR's programming will reflect the Aboriginal Canadian experience.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13780             Newscasts, public affairs programs and open‑line talk shows will all address the needs, interests, and concerns of First Nations, Inuit, and Metis Canadians, particularly those who live in large urban centres like Regina, where the Aboriginal population is growing at a much greater rate than the population at large.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13781             The network programming schedule will include full Aboriginal news reports, national phone‑in programs, a women's round table discussion, focus programs on language, youth, elders, health, et cetera, as well as specialty music programs featuring artist profiles, traditional music, blues, jazz, country, et cetera.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13782             The new AVR service in Regina will feature more than 32 hours of ‑‑ a week of local programming.  The showcase will be the Regina morning show which will air Monday to Sunday 6 a.m. to 10 a.m.  Among other things, this locally produced program will feature a variety of interviews, surveillance reports, Aboriginal music and local banter.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13783             AVR will broadcast a number of newscasts which will aggregate more than three ‑‑ thirty ‑‑ sorry, three and a half hours per week.  New story selection will focus on ‑‑ on events which impact Canada's urban Aboriginal communities, and that have been overlooked and under‑reported by other news sources.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13784             Additional priority will be given to providing a venue for the expression of non‑mainstream viewpoints on current matters of the day.  Source material from newscasts will come from Internet‑based, free news services, materials provided through cooperative arrangements with other local and regional alternative news sources and network‑produced reports.  Original reportage will increase with the developing capacity of the news department.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13785             AVR also proposes to create a three‑minute feature to be called Community Calendar, to provide a schedule of performances and other events taking place in Regina and surrounding areas.  In addition, the Regina station will be responsible for creating local programming for inclusion in network programming dealing with artist profiles, interviews, talent development, and concert reviews, et cetera.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13786             As noted earlier, AVR also proposes the same condition of licence requiring 25 percent of the broadcast week to be comprised of spoken word programs as it is found elsewhere on AVR services throughout Canada.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13787             In addition to the local programming already discussed, AVR will feature a number of national spoken‑word programs that will become available to Regina listeners.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13788             While spoken word will be a significant component of the AVR Regina schedule, the station will also feature a mix of primarily Canadian and worldwide Aboriginal artists in a broad range of genres.  Program hosts will provide informed commentary on the artist presented, along with a variety of education ‑‑ educational and entertaining Aboriginal Canadian perspectives on issues of the day.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13789             The widespread national availability of the AVR radio service has already dramatically increased exposure to the work of Aboriginal Canadian artists.  Encouraging an increased awareness of Aboriginal culture, AVR will play a leading national role in the development and radio exposure of Native musical and spoken‑word talent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13790             AVR has already begun the development of a national archive of Aboriginal Canadian artists.  Currently there are 70 ‑‑ 7,500 individual selections performed by 658 artists and groups.  The majority of the programming on AVR is drawn from this growing and important resource.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13791             AVR's conditions of licence across Canada require that at least 35 percent of the musical selections on AVR be Canadian.  AVR actually does much better than this, playing somewhere between 45 and 60 percent Canadian selections all by Aboriginal artists.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13792             AVR's over‑delivery will be no different in Regina.  A recent monitor of AVR by the Commission staff indicated more than 46 percent Canadian selections.  However, many of the Aboriginal Canadian artists featured on AVR have not even yet been found on the Commission's current database.  This resulted in a finding of a lower percentage of Canadian spins than we know to be the case.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13793             AVR has since agreed to assist the Commission by confirming the Canadian content status of these Aboriginal Canadian artists who are not currently in the Commission's database.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13794             Once this extensive project is complete, AVR's Aboriginal Canadian content level will be found closer to 60 percent.  AVR will aggressively promote the involvement of Aboriginal Canadian artists through regular airplay, interview appearances, guest hosting and live studio performances.  AVR will encourage live music by offering extensive free promotion of the upcoming performances of Aboriginal artists.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13795             MR. HILL:  In closing today I want to thank the Chair and members and staff of the Commission and the other licence applicants who are our colleagues in the broadcast industry.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13796             We want to thank the indigenous people of this area for permitting us to gather on their traditional territory for these hearings and we thank the Creator for our blessings.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13797             The Broadcasting Act, section 3(1)(d)(iii) states that the Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the special place of Aboriginal people within Canadian society.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13798             Section 3(1)(o) of the Act states that programming that reflects the Aboriginal cultures of Canada should be provided within the Canadian Broadcasting system as resources become available for that purpose.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13799             The boards of directors of AVR gratefully acknowledge the support of Phil Fontaine, the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations; George Erasmus, co‑Chair of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People; Perry Bellegarde, former Grand Chief of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations and the Regional Chief of Saskatchewan; Beverley Jacobs, president of the Native Women's Association of Canada; Vera Pawis‑Tabobondung, president of the National Association of Friendship Centres; Marg Friesch, coordinator of the Circle of Aboriginal Community Voices here in Regina; Don Ross, president of Premier Developments; and the 90 percent of the respondents to the Doering survey who live in Regina and who reported they fully support the need for a national Aboriginal radio service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13800             We are also delighted to have received strong support from such stars of the Aboriginal Canadian music scene as John Arcand, Donny Parenteau, Eekwol, and Andrea Menard.  They understand the value of a national Aboriginal radio service both to their own development as musicians but also to the Aboriginal communities from which they come.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13801             Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13802             And we would be pleased to respond to your questions.  All my relations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13803             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Hill.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13804             Vice‑Chair Arpin...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13805             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Thank you, Mr. Hill and your team.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13806             I will address my question to you, but you may ask where ‑‑ who you think is most appropriate to answer the question to the members of your team.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13807             I know that we ‑‑ at this hearing we will have the opportunity to see you two other times, but ‑‑ so I will, today, restrict my questions only to the Regina application.  I know that tomorrow we will have an opportunity to hear your Saskatoon application and on Friday we will hear your renewal.  I will want you not to refer to the current situation at CKV but to deal specifically with the Regina item so that we, for the record, have a complete understanding of your plan for Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13808             So could you, as a first question, explain to the Commission why at this time in the evolution of AVR it is ‑‑ you have applied for a service in this market in Regina?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13809             MR. HILL:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13810             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  I think you partly gave the answer in your oral presentation, but you may want to expand.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13811             MR. HILL:  Okay.  Yes, Commissioner Arpin, I guess the primary reason is we feel very confident and, you know, strong about the idea that this national radio service is extremely important to Aboriginal people and we think that it's a ‑‑ as important to the Aboriginal community in Regina as is important as any other urban city.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13812             The Aboriginal people of Regina do not have a radio service which speaks specifically to them which reflects, you know, back to them their Aboriginal identity.  So that is, I guess, the first reason.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13813             The second reason, I think, is the fact that, you know, when this has happened in the past with AVR that we are faced with a situation where potentially we may not be able to have the opportunity to achieve a licence in Regina for a very long time.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13814             So the fact that the call for the Regina licence has come about, we feel that we don't want to miss the opportunity to be able to broadcast into Regina to serve the Aboriginal population here.  And maybe Lewis can comment further?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13815             MR. CARDINAL:  Yes.  I just want to add to the comment of having the reflection of the Aboriginal voice brought back to the Aboriginal community here in the City of Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13816             Cultural reflectivity is a very important part and process of strengthening our Aboriginal communities, and we know that if we can create that space and opportunity for the Aboriginal voice to be heard far and wide around this region, we will be contributing not only to the wellbeing of Aboriginal people in Canada, but also to the wellbeing of the community as a whole.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13817             MR. HILL:  Just to finish that answer, you know, one of the primary missions of Aboriginal Voice Radio is to improve the lives of Aboriginal people.  And, you know, we would certainly like the opportunity to help in that regard as much as we can as a national radio service for the community in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13818             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So thank you.  One of the first question that is ‑‑ appears to be obvious, at least for the Commission, is how will you be able to finance the implementation of a new service for Regina?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13819             MR. HILL:  Commissioner, we've done projections which we have ‑‑ financial projections for several years going out, looking out, and we've submitted financial projections that show that we have the financial wherewithal as far as, you know, getting the Regina operation up and running and sustaining it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13820             Our projections are very conservative and they're based upon revenue streams which are virtually guaranteed because they're long‑term commitments from broadcast benefit packages.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13821             We've also added advertising, and I guess there's some grant contributions where we would apply for grants, but we have extremely conservative advertising projections for a national radio service.  They're very, very low.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13822             So we wanted to give you a financial picture going out that is ‑‑ you can have a very high degree of confidence in because they're virtually guaranteed revenue streams.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13823             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  I don't think that those financial projections have been filed with the Commission, have they?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13824             MR. HILL:  I thought they did.  But for sure we can file them with the Commission and ensure that you have them if we haven't yet, but I was under the impression that we did.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13825             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Looking at ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13826             MR. HILL:  I believe we'd be able to give you those ‑‑ to you today.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13827             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Okay, fine.  Well, the ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13828             MR. HILL:  Maybe if I could just add that, you know, in the development of the AVR national network there is a sequence that we see, and that is the first thing is to develop the stations and get the financial wherewithal to put ‑‑ to obtain licences and put the stations on the air.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13829             The next thing is to improve the programming to a point where it's high quality programming and of course, following that, we would be able to develop a ‑‑ to a pretty strong sales effort once we do things as far as the programming and getting the stations on the air.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13830             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ other than having financial projections that you have developed, the ‑‑ do you have the necessary documentation that will help us to understand ‑‑ well, we are certainly aware of the benefit packages that has been approved in the past, so we know that the Commission has approved a good number of broadcasters' proposal to support the development of AVR.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13831             But other than that, do you have any other documentation that supports the ‑‑ your ‑‑ they're ‑‑ your availability of funds?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13832             MR. HILL:  Well, you know, we put a lot of work into the financial projections to ensure that we were going to be on the mark regarding the financial future, so we can provide extensive information to the Commission and, you know, we'd certainly be willing to do that, Commissioner Arpin.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13833             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.  And obviously some of it will be filed on a confidential basis so there ‑‑ if you think that you require that these documents not be put in the public record, staff and legal ‑‑ our legal people will surely look at and advise if it is ‑‑ if it could be filed in ‑‑ under confidence.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13834             MR. HILL:  Okay.  We appreciate that very much.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13835             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  I know other than ‑‑ obviously you addressed the issue of capital expenditures, but then there's the operational expenditures of a transmitter, and you also have programming plans and you ‑‑ and pre‑launch operating cost.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13836             Do you have the ‑‑ do you have on hand the financing to do such an investment for the Regina application?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13837             MR. HILL:  Yes, Commissioner.  We have projected enough money.  As a matter of fact, moving out into the future year by year in the documents that we submit, you'll find that we actually are in a surplus situation moving out ‑‑ as we move out.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13838             And this ‑‑ these have taken into account getting the stations on the air and providing a level of service.  I have to say that, you know, the aspiration of AVR is to provide the most premium high quality service, you know, that anyone could provide for Aboriginal people.  And we do recognize that that is contingent upon finances, you know, having the financial wherewithal to do a premium service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13839             What we've projected, I would say, is a moderate service because, you know, we wanted to indicate to you that we could do that with a high degree of confidence based upon virtually ‑‑ the ‑‑ based upon revenue streams that are almost virtually guaranteed.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13840             But I want to say that we do believe amongst the AVR team that we are going to out‑perform what the projections are that we're giving to you.  As you'll see, once you get a chance to take a look at the ‑‑ the advertising revenues, for instance, are extremely low.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13841             So we believe that we're going to, you know, have the financing to be able to, over a period of time, increase the quality of the programming that is coming into Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13842             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, I notice in this morning's oral presentation that you have increased the local content from 25 to 32 hours of programming on a weekly basis.  They ‑‑ you're ‑‑ I know that the application was based on 25 hours and 51 minute of local programming.  Now, this morning, in your oral presentation you referred to 32 hours.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13843             We will surely have an opportunity to discuss later on the content of those 32 hours, but that means that you will probably need more staff than you ‑‑ what you have prepared because I notice that when I'm looking at your application, the ‑‑ I know that you have identified that you will need three programming staff, including one journalist, announcer for in excess of ‑‑ well, I have here now for 32 hours.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13844             You have also indicated that the roll‑out of the programming will be tied to a number of funding opportunities and initiative in which you have not elaborate ‑‑ but the ‑‑ well, we have all ‑‑ with respect to the funding initiative, other than the ‑‑ that the monies that you're getting through benefits and now you said "limited advertising revenues" and ‑‑ but you did mention grants.  What type of grants are you talking about and what is really available for AVR?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13845             MR. HILL:  Well, I think there are a number of grant opportunities, Commissioner.  We have been successful in the past in gaining both federal grants and provincial grants.  For instance, in Ontario we were provided with a grant from the Ontario Trillium Foundation of 180,000.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13846             So as we build the programming into each urban centre, we believe that we will be able to access provincial types of grants to help with the local effort, as well as to continue to access federal grants that would provide contributions to help with the entire national radio network.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13847             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  But when you are getting grants from one province, can you use the proceeds for ‑‑ to invest in another province?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13848             MR. HILL:  Well ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13849             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Because you mentioned the Ontario ‑‑ and Ontario program.  Could you use the proceeds of that program for Saskatchewan?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13850             MR. HILL:  Well, we believe that we'll be able to do that because we are going to provide local programming, and I think those grants would be specific to the local programming.  So as far as we know right now, we would be able to do that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13851             I mean it's going to vary from each province ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13852             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13853             MR. HILL:  ‑‑ depending upon what their programs are, but ‑‑ yeah, Roy can ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13854             MR. HENNESSY:  The ‑‑ good morning.  The Trillium Foundation grant was specifically intended to be used for the development of an Aboriginal news department, which included news stringers in various regions of the Province of Ontario to ensure that we were reaching out to that organization.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13855             The application for that grant began before we had expanded our service, but they included the monies to be used to train and develop Aboriginal news staff as well as reaching out through the province, so a multi‑purpose application to that funding.  Those are the types of grants that we're seeking.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13856             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  We'll now get to the specific of your application and the note that ‑‑ well, staff is ‑‑ has noted some inconsistencies between your programming grid and other responses that we've got out of your ‑‑ in your letter dated August 4th, 2006, and I have a series of question.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13857             Among ‑‑ one of them is that you've stated that you will be offering a best‑of‑the‑week recap of your weekday morning show on every Saturday morning between 6 a.m. and 10 in your programming grid.  However, you have indicated that you will also offer best‑of‑the‑week recaps on Sundays.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13858             Would ‑‑ will you indeed be offering the same ‑‑ this recap program on Sundays or on Saturdays and ‑‑ or is it ‑‑ will it be a repeat of the Saturday program?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13859             MR. HILL:  Commissioner, if I could, I'd like to ask our program director Patrice Mosseau to respond to that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13860             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yes, in fact we will be continue ‑‑ we're doing the best‑of morning show on both Saturday and Sunday.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13861             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And is the Sunday a repeat of the Saturday or is it two different programs?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13862             MS MOUSSEAU:  We're looking at doing two different programs at this time.  Of course looking at funding, we may do a best‑of on both weekend days to start.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13863             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Okay.  Although your program grid does not express as much, you have indicated that you would be providing three five‑minute weekly review features on Saturday mornings.  Could you please confirm whether this in fact ‑‑ if it's the case?  And so could you also, please, provide us with a description of ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13864             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13865             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ these features?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13866             MS MOUSSEAU:  The weekly review features will be ‑‑ like, the best‑of top news stories from the week previous will then be inserted into our best‑of morning show for the weekends on the Saturday and Sunday.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13867             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  You've also indicated that you will be providing seven three‑minutes community calendar features between Monday ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13868             MS MOUSSEAU:  Mmhmm.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13869             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ and Sunday.  Will those ‑‑ these be seven day ‑‑ daily features or seven ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13870             MS MOUSSEAU:  It's very confusing.  We actually had a small typo there.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13871             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13872             MS MOUSSEAU:  It says seven minutes.  I think at the chart that you're looking at, it's actually ‑‑ or sorry, seven minutes total.  It's actually 21 minutes per day.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13873             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13874             MS MOUSSEAU:  So it's running seven times ‑‑ seven times a day.  It's a three‑minute program running seven times a day, seven days a week.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13875             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So ‑‑ and is it the same feature that is repeated 7 times or 21 times or is it 21 different features or ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13876             MS MOUSSEAU:  Because different community events will be happening throughout the week, someone can be then updating that on a regular basis and refreshing it every couple of days.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13877             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So at the end of ‑‑ in a given week, you ‑‑ what, you could be covering two, three different ‑‑ two, three or four different events and update those ‑‑ the feature as long as you move throughout the week?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13878             MS MOUSSEAU:  Absolutely.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13879             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  You also have indicated that you will hire three staff to fulfil the local programming commitment.  These commitment will include up to 49 community calendars, 15 weekly locally‑produced newscasts, 15 hours of morning show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13880             And you've added more this morning, the compilation of the best‑of‑the‑week features, in addition to research and reporting, liaising with CKV Toronto and other station functions.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13881             In this light, could you please elaborate on the function of each of the staff members to be employed directly by the proposed undertaking?  And even before going there, since you've mentioned this morning 32 hours of local programming, maybe we could start reviewing those local programs so that we have a better understanding of what you ‑‑ what they are and then we could discuss staffing and the capability of this ‑‑ of these fairly limited number of people to do all that, that extensive work.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13882             MS MOUSSEAU:  Mmhmm.  The star of our local content, our local programming, is really the morning show.  That's four hours a day, Monday to Friday, and then the reviews that happen on Saturday and Sunday.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13883             The two people that we have working on the morning and with ‑‑ in addition to another person, they'll be also doing the news and the community calendar which can then be programmed and run into as local programming throughout the schedule in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13884             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So the ‑‑ so say if I'm running the morning shows plus the two reviews that give us 28 hours, the ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13885             MR. HENNESSY:  Just ‑‑ sorry, please.  Just one quick thing, the difference that we've pointed out in the calculation of the community calendar between 21 minutes a week and 21 minutes a day ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13886             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13887             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ that's what contributes to the adjustment up to the 32 hours and 17 minutes.  It's just reconciling the typo ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13888             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13889             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ against what was actually on the sheet.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13890             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.  Okay, fine.  Now, you think ‑‑ well, could you help us in understanding what will be the functions of the ‑‑ your local people?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13891             MR. HENNESSY:  Our roll‑out template that we will use to implement service in each of the markets that we move to commences with ‑‑ as was pointed out in one of the decisions that we received, primarily the service will come from the Toronto production centre initially and, as quickly as resources will allow, we'll introduce the local newsperson.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13892             And using technology, we can virtually create a news room in someone's home.  Mortars and brick are the expensive part of our business, and that's the last thing that we'll look at moving towards on a permanent basis.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13893             But if we start out with the newsperson in Regina, their responsibility will be to contribute news, commentary, interviews, content about newsworthy items that will be of interest to people in Regina and also people across the national network.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13894             This content will be packaged as part of the major newscasts and delivered back to each of the markets across the country.  If it's a story of particular interest in Regina, it will take a larger portion of the newscast than we would necessarily send to Vancouver or Calgary, if it's of more local interest.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13895             So the intent is to be 30 percent local, 30 percent regional and 40 percent national.  That's our goal for the content makeup of the newscast.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13896             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13897             MR. HENNESSY:  So we start with ‑‑ sorry?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13898             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Okay, so if I understand you right, you ‑‑ that new person ‑‑ newsperson will gather the information here, will produce his ‑‑ well, his newscast or his feature, whatever the ‑‑ they have to do, they will send it to Toronto, but it could ‑‑ but it will be on ‑‑ rebroadcast only in Regina or out ‑‑ on all the network?  The ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13899             MR. HENNESSY:  It will be included in the national newscast, but an extended version of that can be brought into Regina if it's of ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13900             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And Regina alone ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13901             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ more interest

LISTNUM 95 \l 13902             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ but aired ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13903             MR. HENNESSY:  And Regina alone.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13904             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  But aired ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13905             MR. HENNESSY:  We have the capability to do ‑‑ or we will have the capability to do that with the new master control system that we are on ‑‑ it's a delivery system that we will be installing.  We have the space in our facility in Toronto.  We're just waiting for the arrival of a few more dollars and we'll have that system in place where we can, from a central control, deliver the content to each of the stations across country.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13906             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So your staff will not necessarily be, as you said, the ‑‑ it will work from their basement or wherever they ‑‑ they're personally located?  You won't necessarily have a Regina facility with studios and production facility?  It will be that ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13907             MR. HENNESSY:  At the outset, no.  That will have to be addressed as soon as we introduce the Regina morning show ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13908             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13909             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ because we'll need a central location for guests, for artists, for the staff themselves to work from.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13910             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  But as ‑‑ but for ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13911             MR. HENNESSY:  A similar thing is ‑‑ will happen.  We are in discussions with the Weather Network and, very soon, we are going to introduce a national weather forecast and a more detailed local forecast that's ‑‑ which will be dropped into each of our stations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13912             So again, using technology and relationship with the Weather Network, we will be able to provide travellers' weather ‑‑ and this is another way that we're dealing with the issue of the multitude of Aboriginal languages and that we're encouraging our morning show host ‑‑ the Inuit have 200 words for snow.  I can only think of about four, one of which I can use here.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13913             They have a large number of words, and we're going to encourage that type of use of the language to be included into the programming, so that it becomes an item of interest.  It becomes something that can be, in a humorous way, entertaining/educational, but it becomes a positive experience for people who are listening.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13914             Again, those sorts of things can be done from the master control and dropped into the individual locations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13915             MR. WOOD:  Mr. Chairman, I might also mention that there would be a 1‑800 listener line.  There will be a news tip award line where we would pay $100 a week and $1,000 a year for the best news tip award.  There will be the AVR news correspondent in the community and there would be contact with the local Friendship Centres for more of the Regina input into the national service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13916             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, that's the first stage, and it's in ‑‑ to start with the news gathering and news producing out of Regina.  Then ‑‑ and that will employ one person?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13917             MR. HENNESSY:  In the news position?  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13918             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13919             MR. HENNESSY:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13920             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Okay.  Then later, as finances are available, then you will ‑‑ you're planning to have a morning show, and it's when you will have that morning show that you will be also able to produce the best of the week and not before?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13921             MR. HENNESSY:  Correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13922             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Correct.  So when ‑‑ and how many employees will be involved in the morning show?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13923             MR. HENNESSY:  For the local production of the morning show ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13924             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13925             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ we'll have the newsperson, the morning host who is the anchor for the show does interviews, that type of thing.  There will be a producer who operates the morning show and works to edit, putting together a community calendar, a multipurpose position such as that.  And we also have a technician for the station that's on a service contract to maintain us technically.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13926             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And that will ‑‑ at which stage of your development are you figuring out that you will be able to implement the morning program, so having local facilities?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13927             MR. HENNESSY:  As quickly as possible.  We are ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13928             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13929             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ we are very much aware of our ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13930             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And in your own words, what the words "quickly" means?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13931             MR. HILL:  Commissioner ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13932             MR. HENNESSY:  3/25 September ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13933             MR. HILL:  Commissioner, I think that we have been able to put together a very strong team that's very focused on the financing issue going forward.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13934             And as I had mentioned, we want to deliver a premium service and we took that very seriously.  And we know we have a national radio network to build and we have specifically hired people whose job it is to, I guess, you know, optimize our ability to achieve the type of financing that's required.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13935             MR. HENNESSY:  One ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13936             MR. HILL:  There are more people working on this than what is sitting here at the table.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13937             MR. HENNESSY:  One of the things that was mentioned was the low advertising revenues.  I think we should make a distinction between advertising and our concept of commercial advertising and what we are really attempting to create.  We do not see ourselves as a commercial competitor.  We don't believe we will be.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13938             We're not going to be comparing cost per point with the commercial operations in the market, but we do ‑‑ and we have one of our consultants, one of our friends, has had some conversations with national public radio and public broadcasting in the US.  And we're using that as a model and we have created presentation packages that we can take nationally or to large corporations in the communities we're serving, to seek funding ‑‑ not for advertising, but to support the development of a program of a feature, whether it's a feature on community welfare and health that could be sponsored by an organization of food producers or it's a wide open range or scope that we're going after to seek these dollars to help us fund and develop the programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13939             And they will receive the appropriate credits as you hear on public radio or you see on PBS, sponsored by the generosity of this foundation and that organization.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13940             We have a representative in Vancouver at this point in time.  We have a company in Calgary.  There's people there.  They've undertaken to develop this program across the prairies.  They've been concentrating on the oil towers in Calgary initially because it seemed like right ‑‑ ripe picking, but they're working in that area.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13941             And we have a consultant in ‑‑ who works out of Windsor who is also working to help us develop this in Toronto to go after corporations there.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13942             So it's a different sales.  It's a different product and it will be ‑‑ we don't see the money coming out of advertising budgets, more out of community relations, education and budgets of that nature that the companies have.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13943             So as we develop that, you know, quite possibly if the ‑‑ if it was a company in Regina, they would specify they wanted the money spent here, and we will be most accommodating.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13944             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The programming plans that we are discussing now for Regina, except in Toronto, have you already start to implement part of it in the ‑‑ in other markets?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13945             MR. HILL:  Well, Commissioner, we've started to ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13946             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  To go on air?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13947             MR. HILL:  Yeah, we're working on it right now.  We haven't set a firm date.  Our intention was as soon as this hearing is finished, we're going to be into determining more of an exact time when we're going to be able to achieve those things, but we think that it's not too ‑‑ not very far into the future.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13948             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And it ‑‑ but it's ‑‑ and you're following the same steps?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13949             MR. HILL:  Yes.  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13950             MR. WOOD:  Mr. Chairman, I might add that had there is no resistance on the part of AVR to provide local programming.  You do not have to drag us kicking and screaming to do local programming.  We fully appreciate the idea that local programming generates audience.  That will be a very high priority for AVR, and it's linked really, again, to when the funds become available.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13951             I think that we've dramatically understated the capability of the network to generate sales revenues through advertising.  And in part, I might ask Patrice to comment on some of the listener reaction we're getting ‑‑ not just from Aboriginal people, but from all people ‑‑ to the music that we're featuring on AVR.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13952             MS MOUSSEAU:  Our listeners in ‑‑ right now in Toronto, and actually we get listeners all across ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13953             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Can you just speak up please?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13954             MS MOUSSEAU:  Sorry.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13955             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I'm sorry.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13956             MS MOUSSEAU:  That's okay.  I get e‑mails and phone calls every day from our listeners in Toronto and across Canada, and actually around the world, and one of the things that they keep mentioning to me is the incredible music and programming that's on AVR that's completely unavailable.  There's no other station like that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13957             And we want to be able to roll that out nationally.  We want everybody in Canada to be able to hear AVR.  We want all the Aboriginal communities across all the provinces, including Saskatchewan, to be a part of this national network.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13958             And I think if Saskatoon and Regina don't get the opportunity to add their voice to that network, I think it's going to do them a great disservice.  And the fact is, is that people like to hear us, and we want to be heard here as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13959             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, the local programming that we're talking about this morning, all of that will be ‑‑ in which language will it be?  In the ‑‑ in Cree, in Assiniboine or in English or ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13960             MS MOUSSEAU:  Shall I?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13961             MR. HILL:  We ‑‑ right now, Commissioner, we're broadcasting two languages that I guess are the languages in the cities where we have this happening.  The majority of the population ‑‑ and that's predominantly, right now, Cree and Ojibwe.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13962             I know there are other Aboriginal groups here and, you know, we would of course broadcast in languages that are the most relevant for each city.  So I know there are Assiniboine people here, Saulteaux, in addition to Cree predominantly, and there are other First Nations as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13963             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  We ‑‑ yesterday we heard there were some Dakotas as well in this city, and there was a fifth one, but we check around ourself, and I don't think it was ever mentioned.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 95 \l 13964             MS MOUSSEAU:  We have our spoken ‑‑ or our Aboriginal language requirement that we obviously are going to hit and probably exceed as far as language lessons actually having programming spoken in Aboriginal languages.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13965             But the thing is, is because we're going to have local talent here, they're going to ‑‑ have the ability not only to speak in English to their community, but to be able to use their own language commonly and make it something that's accessible and understandable, and then the people in the community can go, "Well, yeah, this is my language and I'm hearing it on the radio."  And that's going to have a lot of benefit to get people more encouraged to use their language and to learn more about it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13966             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Will you be doing some things for the Metis community?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13967             MS MOUSSEAU:  Absolutely.  In fact we already ‑‑ we have a Metis show ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13968             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13969             MS MOUSSEAU:  ‑‑ right now in Toronto, which probably would roll out first, or take that national program, take it over into Regina and then look to the Metis community in Regina to contribute to that show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13970             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, if things go well and over time we ‑‑ are you planning to hire more than three and a half people to operate your local programming contention?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13971             MS MOUSSEAU:  Well, one of the things about AVR is we're traditional storytellers, but we're using the best technology that we can find right now to do everything as quickly, as efficiently and as inexpensively as possible.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13972             One of the benefits of that is we can have DJs that are available and broadcasting nationally from anywhere in the country, so we could have X number of staff from right here in Saskatchewan as part of the national network.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13973             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, you haven't indicated that you will provide both locally‑produced and network‑produced spoken‑word programming including, like, a number of newscasts ‑‑ you know, well, we've already discussed my question.  I apologize.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13974             MR. WOOD:  Mr. Chairman, if I could just jump in?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13975             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13976             MR. WOOD:  One comment about additional local reflection.  There has been great interest on the part of local community groups to come forward with programs that would be heard on AVR.  AVR would make that widely known, that such programming would find a platform on AVR and we would also approach organizations like the local Friendship Centre, for example, to find out if they wanted to produce a program that would be heard locally and, depending on the quality aspects of it or the program in its entirety, could be heard nationally.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13977             So it won't just be whether we have a large enough staff to accommodate local programming; there will be feedback and input coming from the community itself.  In fact, there's a fair amount of pent up demand for that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13978             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, in the programming grid that you've provided us, you did mention number ‑‑ a good number of titles for network‑originated programming.  However, since very little information was provided in relation to these programs, I personally consulted your Toronto website so ‑‑ where I found the ‑‑ some descriptions for Red Tales, Women's Round Table, Art Review, Metis Health, AKA American Indian Living, and Heartbeat.  Could you confirm that the description of these programs provided on your website is current ‑‑ that currently is on your website, and I did check your website last week, so is this ‑‑ is that information still ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13979             MS MOUSSEAU:  Program ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13980             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ accurate?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13981             MS MOUSSEAU:  ‑‑ descriptions that are on the website are in fact correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13982             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So it ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13983             MS MOUSSEAU:  Now, we ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13984             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ they are accurate?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13985             MS MOUSSEAU:  ‑‑ we do have a few more additions to make to the website.  We've been pretty busy.  Haven't had a chance to update it recently but, yeah, the descriptions there ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13986             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  But what ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13987             MS MOUSSEAU:  ‑‑ are correct.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13988             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ what is on the website is accurate?

LISTNUM 95 \l 13989             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13990             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Could you ‑‑ and getting back to your morning show that you're planning to have for Regina, could you describe for us the type of content you will ‑‑ you're looking to cover?  And you've mentioned local activities.  You've mentioned interviews, but could you give us more ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13991             MS MOUSSEAU:  This morning show is really going to be an opportunity for the people in Regina to have a showcase for their talent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13992             One of the reasons why I'm so excited to come into this market is because the musical talent in this province is extraordinary.  We've had an opportunity to have several artists send their ‑‑ send us their CDs because they are really well‑known, like Andrea Menard for example, and she gets played all the time on AVR.  And there's a lot of regional musicians that haven't even had the opportunity ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13993             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  But she's played at ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 13994             MS MOUSSEAU:  ‑‑ to hear about it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13995             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ in many other radio stations as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13996             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yeah, she's fantastic.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13997             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13998             MS MOUSSEAU:  But there's a lot of hidden talent there, so on the morning show we have an opportunity for people to come in and be heard live and be heard in their communities, as well as news, weather, talk.

LISTNUM 95 \l 13999             We could have people coming in talking about Aboriginal leadership, local issues, perhaps provincial/federal politics, getting people involved in their communities, talking about the ability of people to get involved to learn languages.  Maybe there's local programs here that AVR can be promoting to promote the use of Aboriginal languages and bring that back into the community.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14000             I mean really the possibilities are endless as to what we can do for Regina with the morning show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14001             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ will the morning show be more spoken driven or more music driven?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14002             MS MOUSSEAU:  I see it probably about half and half.  A lot of music, a lot of talk ‑‑ I mean it's a variety show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14003             MR. CARDINAL:  If you don't mind me adding to that as well?  In Edmonton, for example where I'm from, there is tremendous support from the community in wanting to do any number of programming possibilities that they can come up with.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14004             And so at this point, we're experiencing a real buy‑in from the Aboriginal communities, particularly in Edmonton, who are interested in providing support, in developing programming and programming ideas.  And I have to hold them back a little bit so that at least we're a bit more organized and ready for them when their opportunity comes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14005             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Are you on air in Edmonton?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14006             MR. CARDINAL:  No, not yet.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14007             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So the thing is that it's tough to have a program for the community when you're not yet on air.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14008             MR. CARDINAL:  Absolutely.  They're very excited about the opportunity that's coming, so that's what I wanted to reiterate.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14009             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  You wanted to ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14010             MR. HILL:  I just wanted to comment, Commissioner, that we did talk about some, I guess, themes that would kind of position AVR.  And the first and most important one in the spoken‑word portion is heritage and culture, Aboriginal heritage and culture, and Aboriginal values.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14011             We do have a show called the Wisdom of the Elders right now, and that type of, I guess, content would certainly take place as part of the morning show.  We're also very interested in promoting environmental issues because of Native people's respect for the land and for Mother Earth.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14012             We do have an aspiration of, I guess, fostering discussion around, I guess, issues such as economic development and, I guess, things that maybe some of the leadership ‑‑ Aboriginal leadership is involved in.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14013             We also are going to, you know, feature extensive programming about the arts, which is certainly a large part of Aboriginal culture.  And also education is one thing that we think is very important and it's ‑‑ one of the things that we want to promote as well.  And as Patrice said, you know, there's just a tremendous amount of talent in Saskatchewan and that would certainly comprise a significant portion of the morning show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14014             MR. WOOD:  Just in order to follow up on that comment from Mr. Hill, to give you a kind of broad overview of where AVR wants go with its programming, in order to help improve the lives of Aboriginal people the focus would be, number one, on news every hour of the day, 24 hours a day.  We consider news very important.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14015             Secondly would be the national two‑hour telephone talk show every day, Monday through Friday.  And third would be 30 to 60 minutes of enriched public affairs programming each and every day.  That is what AVR ultimately hopes to do to harmonize what it's doing on all of its stations.  It will be an information rich service as the funds become available.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14016             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14017             MR. HENNESSY:  We talk about the national talk show.  There is a local component to that in each of the markets.  The technological developments that seem to be going at breathtaking speed, the company in Winnipeg that is selling us the master control and production facilities, they are also marketing a new product that will be on ‑‑ out shortly.  Hopefully we can be one of the first to use it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14018             In effect it's a small production board which would go into the control room of each of our local facilities like in the facility in Regina where the morning show is produced.  It would also ‑‑ that's where we do the Regina portion of the national talk show.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14019             And the way this equipment is designed, by simply switching a knob, in Toronto the host and producer of the national talk show can bring in the Regina guest or the Regina host and guest, and all of the levels in production can be controlled from the one centre.  So again, using that will require less manpower and give us greater ability to get into each of these markets to deal with topics that are relevant.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14020             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Mr. Wood, in the ‑‑ you just mentioned talk ‑‑ just mention of news and the importance of news and news at every hour means that there ‑‑ what you're saying is you're thinking ‑‑ talking about having 168 newscasts a week.  Now for Regina, in your applications, you're talking about 15 local newscasts and 15 net ‑‑ network newscasts, so from 30 to 168 is somehow a water step.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14021             But regarding local news, what type of content are you ‑‑ will you be looking at?  Specific contents to the Aboriginal or newscasts about what's going on in the city?  Because it has some importance also for the Aboriginal population and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14022             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yeah, we'll be looking at ‑‑ I think it's a two‑pronged ‑‑ sorry, it's a two‑pronged approach as taking a look at issues that affect Aboriginal people directly, perhaps news stories that are being maybe under‑reported by the mainstream news, as well as taking a look at news events, current events that mean something to Canadians at large.  But we can take a look at them from the Aboriginal perspective so that we can say, "Well, this is what Aboriginal people think about this particular issue."

LISTNUM 95 \l 14023             MR. WOOD:  Mr. Arpin, I just wanted to add also that the comment about the hourly news is not a local current Regina commitment that we're presenting to you.  It's simply where AVR wants to go ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14024             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ that's ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14025             MR. WOOD:  ‑‑ in the future.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14026             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  ‑‑ that's what I understood.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14027             MR. WOOD:  Yes.  Also Mr. Cardinal has a comment also with regard to the dialogue that would occur amongst communities across Canada with the talk element of the programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14028             MR. CARDINAL:  Yes.  It's just important to note that the issues that arise within different parts of the nation also have a resounding effect on communities in the West, for example, the New Caledonia situation is not fully understood.  There is smatterings of information as the discussions that make their way informally into the community, but this kind of service for us to engage in the dialogue that is surrounding the issues that are pertinent to other Aboriginal communities across Canada is an opportunity for us to enter into a discourse that really lends to a deeper understanding, not just for ourselves but for Canadians as a whole when it comes to these kinds of issues.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14029             MR. HENNESSY:  We also ‑‑ we regard ourselves as being an inclusive organization, and the programming that we do is intended to invite people in to participate and learn, Aboriginal and non‑Aboriginal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14030             One quick anecdote.  When we were working with the Trillium Foundation funds and had three in our news room in Toronto, and a couple of them were juniors and were being trained.  I walked into the news room one morning, and there was the usual black coffee and pounding away on keyboards.  I said, "Well, what's the big story today?"

LISTNUM 95 \l 14031             And there were a couple of mutterings about incidents that were totally Aboriginal in nature.  And I just smiled and I said, "I thought the fact that we have a new Pope was pretty interesting."  And I just left.  About 45 minutes, an hour later, the news director came in the door and said, "Listen to the newscast."

LISTNUM 95 \l 14032             And they ‑‑ it had started the wheel spinning about this idea being inclusive, and we ended up with a 20‑minute interview with one of the representatives of Six Nations who had been there when the Pope, who had just passed away, had visited Six Nations.  And there was a whole discussion about the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Aboriginal people; that's the type of thing that we want to do in each of the communities on an ongoing basis.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14033             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Now, in your programming grid that you have, you're suggesting to have a local newscast at 6 a.m., 8 a.m., and 1 a.m. and for a duration of five minutes each.  Will they be solely focused on local news or what will be ‑‑ or will they also contain national news materials?  Or what will be produced here in Regina and what will come from other sources?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14034             MS MOUSSEAU:  The Regina newscast, the ‑‑ we have the ability to draw from the national news, so they can look at the major stories of the day, include that into their local news broadcast.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14035             MR. WOOD:  Mr. Chairman, to the extend though that national stories are aired from the Regina news room, those will be developed with a Regina perspective.  So it will be Regina specific stories, plus the national stories from a Regina perspective.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14036             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  You have indicated that you intend to source the majority of your future programming, such as OOP(ph), Wisdom of the Elders, Turtle Highland Line(ph), Heart Review(ph), and other from AV ‑‑ from your network.  The urban Aboriginal experience in Toronto may differ quite significantly from the urban Aboriginal experience here in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14037             With this in mind, could you please comment on how these programs will be specifically relevant to Regina Aboriginal population?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14038             MS MOUSSEAU:  These programs although they are produced in Toronto are pretty general across the board.  For example, Red Tales, it's a literary review.  We're talking about books, but the fact is we're going to have the national network, and our hosts and our producers are going to have the resources of those other urban communities.  They're going to be able to submit content, submit ideas, and be able to work on these programs collaboratively.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14039             So perhaps the host is in Toronto, but we're really getting information and content from across the entire network.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14040             MR. HILL:  Commissioner, I think ‑‑ I believe that's one of the strengths of AVR is ‑‑ and this happens outside of the radio broadcast, is the exchange of stories and, you know, information amongst Aboriginal people across the country so ‑‑ and it happens in all different areas.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14041             You know, there are many things in the arts.  There are many things as far as the Native political leadership.  There are many things as far as the elders are concerned where there are national events and discussions, where there is a collaboration and exchange of understanding amongst all these various groups.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14042             And I think that's one of the benefits that the national radio network brings to local communities, is that what's happening in the other communities is ‑‑ there's an increased awareness in the local community and what's happening in other local communities, and I think that goes both ways, that ‑‑ that's certainly the ‑‑ you know, a local community ‑‑ the Aboriginal communities in Toronto could benefit from, you know, being engaged and hear what's happening in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14043             MR. CARDINAL:  Let me add to the ‑‑ to those points that you've made, Jamie.  The ‑‑ right now we know that there's over 60 percent of Aboriginal people that live in ‑‑ with ‑‑ within urban centres and we also know that across the country each of these urban centres, like Toronto and Edmonton and Vancouver, are faced with similar issues.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14044             One of the top five issues that are consistently brought forward by these Aboriginal communities is one of Aboriginal ‑‑ access to Aboriginal culture and history.  A lot of our urban centres are without access to these institutions of culture and ceremony, and these are very important in providing a sense of continuity and a sense of identity for Aboriginal people within the urban settings.  So when we talk about issues within Toronto, aside from cultural content in terms of languages and things like that, the essence and the basis of the issues are the same.  We need to access culture.  We need to also find out from our other relatives in different cities how they're dealing with those issues as well; employment, education and those issues are relevant across the country.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14045             How we're dealing with them are unique, and that in and of itself creates the opportunity for a wonderful dialogue in sharing and creating strategies to deal with these issues.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14046             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ regarding to Aboriginal languages, I note that in your oral presentations you agreed to the existing conditions of licence that appear in all your ‑‑ the licence that have been granted to you.  So only to reiterate, so the ‑‑ you do accept the conditions of licence that they have been granted to your existing licence, that they could be ‑‑ that they apply for Regina?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14047             MR. HILL:  Commissioner, yes, we accept those conditions and we support them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14048             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yes, including the 25 percent of spoken word?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14049             MR. HILL:  Yes, including the 25 percent of spoken word.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14050             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ now, are you planning to sell any advertising locally, and if yes, at which stage in the development of your service?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14051             MR. HILL:  No, we do not have any intention to sell local advertising.  It's ‑‑ our intention is to sell national advertising, so maybe that's a question that speaks to our impact on, I guess, local broadcasting.  And we don't expect that we're going to have any negative effect on local broadcasting, so we don't have any intention of selling local advertising.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14052             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Including the local component of your ‑‑ of the programming grid that you have proposed?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14053             MR. HILL:  Yes, including that as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14054             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And now, as you know, we will hear today an application by Natotawin Broadcasting to operate also a type B radio broadcast programming undertaking.  Well, they are currently in La Ronge and they are applying for a rebroad in ‑‑ rebroadcasting facility in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14055             According to ‑‑ and you referred to the 2001 census, the Aboriginal population is approximately 16,000 people.  Some are saying that by today, it's probably closer to 20,000, but do you think there's room for two services to serve the Aboriginal population in Regina; one from your network and the other one from the La Ronge service who is providing a more regional service to Saskatchewan?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14056             MR. HILL:  Yes, Commissioner, the primary mission of AVR is to improve the lives of Aboriginal people.  And we support, with that idea, I guess, as much Aboriginal media availability as possible.  We do believe there are room for two ‑‑ two Aboriginal broadcasts in Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14057             And I want to say especially in light of the fact that we have some demographic projections that indicate that within a couple of generations, that approximately half of the population of Saskatchewan will be Aboriginal people.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14058             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ and how will your service ‑‑ I don't know if you have had a chance to look at the application of Natotawin, but how your ‑‑ if you do, could you tell me how the ‑‑ your service will defer from them?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14059             MR. HILL:  Well, I think that it's a difference between a national programming service and a local or regional program service.  I think that the thing ‑‑ Aboriginal Voices is virtually 100 percent Aboriginal.  Our intention is to, at a minimum, have ‑‑ or to play 50 percent of Canadian Aboriginal artists.  We are not aware that there are any other broadcasters providing any type of service like that.  We are not aware of any intention to provide a service like that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14060             So I think that, you know, we're distinct as far as other Aboriginal broadcast services and I think ‑‑ and those are the two primary ways that we're almost all Aboriginal content, and it's a national dialogue and I think that certainly I would hope that Regina could be a part of that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14061             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ your service as ‑‑ and you mention it on numerous occasion, and it's also in your original application, is catering to the Aboriginal people in the urban centres.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14062             Obviously the ‑‑ Saskatchewan is more a rural community than an urban community.  How will your service cater to the Aboriginal of the ‑‑ of Saskatchewan?  And I'm also thinking here about Saskatoon, since obviously you'll be ‑‑ they will ‑‑ you will be working in tandem with those two stations ‑‑ how the Aboriginal of this province will feel served by an urban service.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14063             MR. HILL:  Well, one of the things that we have said previously and we still intend to go forward with the plan that we will provide all of our programming free of charge to, you know, any and all Aboriginal broadcasters across the country, so any regional broadcaster or First Nations‑based radio station will be able to download our programming free of charge.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14064             So I mean some of them may be interested, and we believe that they would be, and some have expressed interest in some of our national content just to, you know, provide something else.  I mean it's not available right now, but the ‑‑ you know, we would be able to provide a national content for them at whatever level they think is appropriate.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14065             So we have focused primarily in, I guess, our presentations on the urban Aboriginal people where more than half ‑‑ the statistics show that more than half of Aboriginal people do live in urban centres, but we fully intend to provide our service free of charge to any other Aboriginal broadcaster.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14066             MR. CARDINAL:  Maybe also add to that by stating, again, demographics around transmigration between First Nations and Aboriginal communities and urban centres.  They seem ‑‑ there ‑‑ there's a lot of going back and forth between the city and their traditional areas or their communities.  That number is consistent.  That means people are coming here and working, returning homes either on weekends or certain durations of time.  We also recognize that there's a huge population growth within the urban centres themselves.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14067             So in this way, AVR is providing an access to information that is not accessible in their remote communities nor their communities in general.  And I think that's one major contribution that AVR will give to the Aboriginal people in Saskatchewan.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14068             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Maybe it's the place to ask my questions regarding ‑‑ well, yesterday when Standard appear for a ‑‑ for their application to serve Regina, they referred to an agreement that had ‑‑ they had signed with AVR regarding a weekly news magazine that they are contemplating for the ‑‑ for this market, and now it's my ‑‑ could you say to us more about what that agreement is all about?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14069             MR. HILL:  Yes, I'd be happy to, Commissioner.  We have a great relationship with Standard, and Standard has been very good to AVR.  And what we'll be providing is some of our news content to supplement a weekend program that they will do.  So we think it's a great idea that will increase, I guess, the Aboriginal perspective on some of the events happening in the world that are coming into Regina.  Perhaps I could ask Roy Hennessy to provide another comment.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14070             MR. HENNESSY:  This conversation with Standard began when they were applying for licences in Fort McMurray and Grande Prairie, and we were contacted by the manager of the Edmonton operation, who was organizing content program development, et cetera.  And they asked, if they were successful in Grande Prairie or Fort McMurray, would we be able to supply content to be part of ‑‑ as it was explained to me, the ‑‑ they are planning a 90‑minute news magazine on Sunday mornings ‑‑ thirty minutes of that would deal with issues of interest to the Aboriginal community they were serving, or Aboriginals in the community they were proposing to serve ‑‑ and would we make content from our national service stations available to them for inclusion.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14071             That was the total extent of the conversation.  Given that we weren't applying in those markets and our mandate or desire to expand the awareness of Aboriginal issues, we agreed that we would supply that content to them if they were successful.  When they applied for licences here and Saskatoon, we were contacted again by Standard and said, "Would you see your way to it being possible for us to have the same content provided for news magazine shows in these two new licence applications?"

LISTNUM 95 \l 14072             I pointed out to them that we were applying for licences in that market but I'd ‑‑ and I discussed this with everyone involved in the licence application that ‑‑ and we agreed that we did not see that as a conflict or as a problem because, again, it addresses our mandate of getting Aboriginal information and awareness out to the general community.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14073             And it's quite conceivable that a number of people who would be listening to the Standard stations, if they're successful, would not listen to AVR.  So we would, again, be helping to increase awareness and we pointed out to them that we were applying for licences and that if we were ‑‑ both parties were successful, we would still be going to provide that information to them.  That's the total extent of our discussions with them to achieve our goals and in a way, I guess, help them achieve theirs.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14074             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14075             We'll now talk about the CTD, or Canadian Television Development Program.  We ‑‑ well, we note that your plans in terms of promotion of Aboriginal artists includes broadcasting Aboriginal music, the creation of CD/DVD package contributing to an annual talent showcase, and the broadcast of special events such as powwow.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14076             In light of your stance on conditions of licence regarding the broadcast of Aboriginal language/music, could you please indicate how such a position will impact the diversity of Aboriginal music to be broadcast?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14077             MS MOUSSEAU:  I'm sorry, can you actually rephrase just that last bit?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14078             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  The ‑‑ well, you have a plan for CD, producing CD and DVD, and you refer to it in your oral presentation that you have that still ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14079             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yes, the ‑‑ that album.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14080             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Right.  I'll ‑‑ and you have developed a music library of major importance.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14081             MS MOUSSEAU:  Mmhmm.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14082             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  And what my question has to do with is that ‑‑ would you please indicate how such a position will impact the diversity of Aboriginal music to be ‑‑ well ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14083             MR. HENNESSY:  If you're wondering about how this ‑‑ how our national library actually is going to impact Aboriginal talent in Regina ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14084             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14085             MR. HENNESSY:  ‑‑ I see in a multiple fashion, that we can accomplish that, but by having local ‑‑ even just starting with the local newsperson who makes us aware there was a large concert last night or there's a new band, has a new CD out, I've got an interview with them ‑‑ having that on‑the‑street contact as the beginning, then eventually through the morning show host and their relationship with the community, becoming an integrated part of it, they make the national network or the national library, the ‑‑ aware of these artists, arrange for interviews to be featured across the country, so it becomes a developmental tool for artists in Regina and even other stations across the province that might discover an Aboriginal artist in their community.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14086             If they get airplay on that local station and it's brought to us, we can then take that and accelerate it by including it in our library, which we hope to operate as an E‑commerce as well so we can facilitate the selling of downloads of these artists' albums because you certainly won't find them at HMV.  We are the epitome of emerging talent, so having the vehicles like the E‑commerce downloading capability would allow us to accelerate the development of an artist from Regina.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14087             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Your ‑‑ is your music library ‑‑ well, will your music library made ‑‑ be made available to other Native broadcasters or ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14088             MR. HENNESSY:  We see it as evolving into a resource for all Canadians, for everyone to access.  So if a broadcaster made ‑‑ was made aware of or wanted to access our library to download a track to feature in their playlist, that's part of the service that that library is intended to perform.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14089             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  You ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14090             MR. HENNESSY:  And they pay us 99 cents for it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14091             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  I see.  Now, creation of CD/DVD and coverage of powwows locally here in Regina or in Saskatchewan, are ‑‑ at which stage of your development, do you think, that you will be capable to start covering and producing local material?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14092             MS MOUSSEAU:  Once our morning show is in place because we have ‑‑ like, I mentioned we're a pretty lean, mean machine here as far as technology goes.  We can just take them and put them right into that powwow and have them broadcast live from that event.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14093             MR. HENNESSY:  We are having discussions ‑‑ oh, sorry.  There we are.  We have been having discussions and are beginning planning to make our first appearance at the Calgary Stampede next year.  Sorry, Regina, but they'll probably win first.  But there is a very large Aboriginal segment to the Calgary stampede.  I lived there myself for four years.  I know the type of excitement that the Aboriginal celebrations contribute to the Stampede.  We intend to be live from there next year.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14094             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Well, you don't have to be sorry about Regina.  Our ‑‑ this really might ‑‑ might not have been released by that time so ‑‑

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 95 \l 14095             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  So ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14096             MR. WOOD:  Mr. Chairman, just picking up on a comment that Mr. Hennessy made regarding the developmental support that AVR will provide, again, it's a point worth emphasizing, I think, that all of the artists featured on AVR are Aboriginal are that all of the artists are emerging because they've never before been heard.  And that, in a way, makes AVR a very distinct service because we believe it's the only service in Canada that is devoted to a music sound that is 100 percent Aboriginal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14097             Most of the regional services and independent stations are featuring a fairly large component of commercial, mainstream, chart‑oriented music.  So whereas there's a component of mainstream music in those stations, sometimes very large, we are 100 percent Aboriginal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14098             MS MOUSSEAU:  Sorry, may I just make one more comment?  One of the things about Aboriginal Voices Radio is ‑‑ that is enormous is that we are 100 percent Aboriginal in all of our music, and the fact is is that people are going to be hearing us and knowing that their people are making this music.  It gives them the opportunity to hear other sounds from across Canada, contribute to their own music.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14099             Recently I ‑‑ a friend of mine brought some kids with her out of Manitoba to Toronto to check out the local universities, to encourage them to ‑‑ for post‑secondary education, and they were listening to AVR for the first time and they were shocked because they couldn't believe how great the music was on our station.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14100             And, you know, one girl said, "You know what?  I'd had no idea Robbie Robertson was Aboriginal."  Like, these are things the community at large, especially the youth community, doesn't know.  And they can look at that as a source of pride, and Aboriginal Voices Radio will bring ‑‑ will be able to bring that to all of Canada.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14101             MR. HENNESSY:  One other quick comment with regards to the development of talent in Regina or the other markets that we serve as well.  We've had discussions of ‑‑ preliminary, but the idea has been discussed with an organization called Theatre D in Toronto.  They are refurbishing an old theatre and converting it into a high‑definition digital production centre that will also feature live performances, live talent.  They're opening on the 24th of November and they'll be featuring live performances with the ability to both video and record them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14102             And the discussion ‑‑ to make it perfectly obvious, the discussion of an Aboriginal Idol type of show and production has got their interest, and that would be an opportunity where we could take an emerging artist from Regina or in Edmonton or in Calgary, have them perform in competition and be recorded and featured.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14103             And whether we can develop this into what also becomes a television feature as well, we don't know, but we have interest from the people involved in pursuing it.  These are the sorts of things that we think about, dream about and hope we can afford.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14104             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Well, Mrs. Chairman, I'm through with my questions.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14105             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14106             Commissioner Pennefather...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14107             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14108             Good morning.  I have a question which is just for our understanding in terms of music, and don't interpret it as a COL or a specific question in that sense.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14109             But talking about the CD/DVD package under talent development and the project of ‑‑ as you did this morning, of including Aboriginal Canadian artists in the current database, et cetera.  Just as a general sense, the artists that you're talking about cover all the genre of music or are we ‑‑ you know, I am aware of some artists, but just so that we have a better understanding, we would be looking at artists in a variety of genre from rock right through to classical, I suppose?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14110             MS MOUSSEAU:  Absolutely.  Aboriginal artists across Canada are producing a wide variety of genre.  Everything, as mentioned, from hip hop to jazz, to classical, to rock, to pop, a lot of them are independently produced.  That's why there is ‑‑ unfortunately they don't necessarily all the time have the Cancon MAPL symbol on their back of their CD.  So there's research involved in getting, as I said, that information to us, and that's why there's sort of that discrepancy with your database, I believe, at the commission.  I think ‑‑ I hope ‑‑ does that answer your question?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14111             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And the artist ‑‑ yes, it's ‑‑ I imagine, too, that that same issue comes into play with other organizations such as FACTOR or other organizations where the classification is also being discussed, so that Aboriginal artists are classified according to their genre of music as opposed to being an Aboriginal artist.  Is that also a problem in terms of other organizations, like FACTOR, or any of the others?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14112             MS MOUSSEAU:  I'm not sure ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14113             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Are there getting ‑‑ in other words, are they being included as Canadian artists appropriately in other areas like FACTOR?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14114             MS MOUSSEAU:  I would think not because how are they possibly getting exposure if not through Aboriginal Voices Radio?  There isn't the distribution.  They aren't getting the commercial airplay.  They're not getting any media coverage.  There's not a lot of buzz.  If they're playing clubs, you know, they're slogging it away in these little tiny clubs, and maybe they're not getting the opportunity to come into FACTOR.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14115             Coming into Toronto, for example, for FACTOR meetings is a pretty expensive endeavour.  I don't think an Aboriginal artist from a small community may necessarily be able to do that.  So Aboriginal Voices Radio, as I see it, is the best vehicle for Aboriginal musicians to get their music heard nationally ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14116             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And then start the process?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14117             MS MOUSSEAU:  ‑‑ as well as on mainstream ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14118             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And can start the process that way?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14119             MS MOUSSEAU:  Absolutely.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14120             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And we're talking about artists singing or playing ‑‑ well, let's take singing; obviously playing something else, but the singing in both and, of course, if they're singing opera in Italian or German, but also Aboriginal languages?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14121             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yes.  Yeah, we actually play Aboriginal music songs in Aboriginal languages played by Aboriginal musicians right now.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14122             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Is it the majority of songs would be in English or in Aboriginal languages?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14123             MS MOUSSEAU:  The majority ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14124             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  How does it break down?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14125             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yeah, the majority of the songs right now, I believe, are in English and that's because I ‑‑ I believe that Aboriginal artists are concerned about becoming commercially viable.  In order to do that, they want to sing in English.  More people will understand that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14126             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Of course.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14127             MS MOUSSEAU:  Again with AVR, we have an opportunity to play those Aboriginal languages, those Aboriginal songs.  Perhaps you might encourage more of our artists to start, again, singing in their original languages.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14128             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  That's sort of my point when saying ‑‑ I'm not talking about the 2 percent, but it is ‑‑ a component of the mandate of AVR is bringing that exposure but also that was access for the rest of Canada to artists singing in Aboriginal languages.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14129             MS MOUSSEAU:  Yeah.  I mean we hit our 2 percent to requirement, but that's not why we play the music.  The songs are fantastic, and they get ‑‑ include not just in those sections of our Aboriginal music programming, but it's also included in our main play lists.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14130             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  A couple of other follow‑up questions from your discussion with Vice‑Chair Arpin, you mentioned the two‑hour national talk show.  Would it ‑‑ which would appear to be an open‑line show because I think people will be calling in, and that was your point in terms of a discussion about Regina as well.  Do you have or will you have mechanisms in place to ensure that you comply with the Commission's policy on open‑line programming?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14131             MR. HENNESSY:  Yes, the production facilities will be able to monitor delay the broadcast.  There will be a producer in place to monitor content and make sure that we're within guidelines.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14132             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  A producer in Toronto?  Would that be the ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14133             MR. HENNESSY:  That will be the hub for the program.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14134             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Right.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14135             MR. HENNESSY:  But as I pointed out with the technology we've got, we'll be able to remote ‑‑ we can bring a guest in.  We could have the mayor of Regina discussing an issue, specifically bring him into the studio and be able to control his levels, monitor, run the delay and everything else remotely but still have the impact of having that person live on the air.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14136             MR. WOOD:  Also ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14137             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And local residents in Regina ‑‑ sorry, Mr. Wood.  You wanted to add something?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14138             MR. WOOD:  No, that's ‑‑ I'm sorry.  I was just going to say one of the most important components of a talk show is the person who screens the calls.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14139             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14140             MR. WOOD:  So as the calls come in, somebody at headquarters will be screening the calls, not only for appropriateness to the subject, but for balance and to ensure that all points of view have a chance to be aired.  So we definitely will provide for that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14141             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  And local residents here would use a ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14142             MR. WOOD:  A 1‑800 line.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14143             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  ‑‑ 1‑800 number?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14144             MR. WOOD:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14145             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  You also discussed the website program descriptions, and I think you indicated to my colleague that there were some descriptions that were to be added.  And in order to have a complete picture of the program descriptions for our purposes, could you supply us with the program descriptions and ‑‑ so we don't have to wait for the website?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14146             MS MOUSSEAU:  Absolutely.  I can provide you either a hardcopy or digital copy by the end of the day or ‑‑ whatever, by the week, whatever ‑‑ your choice, whatever you'd like.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14147             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14148             And just my last question is I hate ‑‑ Mr. Hennessy ‑‑ Miss ‑‑ do you want to pick up on that timing question, counsel?  Thank you.  Speaking of timing, I just wanted to get back to your "quickly as possible", Mr. Hennessy.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14149             And thanks to your discussion this morning, I think we have a better understanding of how you see this service, as Mr. Cardinal so eloquently said at the beginning of the discussion, a service ‑‑ an AVR without Regina is difficult for you to understand.  It's also important to ‑‑ for us to understand how the service would really fulfil the needs of the Regina audience and listeners.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14150             And so I come back to the question of ‑‑ I think I understand the thesis of how the local service would develop over time, but in terms of this being an application for frequency in the Regina market, could I ask you again to give us perhaps a more precise sense of when you feel that the morning show will be a Regina morning show, if I can put it that way, and the rest of the grid would in fact ‑‑ in addition to the talk show being a national show and the other national shows available, the concept of a Regina AVR service would be a reality?  Can you give us a better sense of the "quickly as possible"?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14151             MR. HILL:  I could comment on that, Commissioner.  I mean this ‑‑ it's a projection, and if I was to lay odds, I would say that by the end of a one‑year period of being granted the licence that we would be able to achieve pretty much the quality that we intend to.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14152             And I base that upon the fact that I've been on the board for a couple of years and I've seen great strides forward under not the best conditions.  And I think that we have an extremely talented team in place, that it's ‑‑ if I could, I think it's the best team that AVR's had so far.  Although there was a lot of talents that, you know, got us to this point, but we've tried to put a team in place right now that can move us on to the next level.  And from my awareness, I think that ‑‑ I mean I'm very happy with the way things are going at this point.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14153             And we've given you a conservative, I guess, projection on what we're going to do, but we're quite confident ‑‑ and we do that on purpose.  You know, we want to give you something that you can have a great confidence in.  But from what I know personally about ‑‑ you know, about AVR and the things that we're working on, I have a very high level of confidence that we're going to be able to, you know, deliver on what I would call, you know, the top programming that we could very quickly.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14154             COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you, Mr. Hill.  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14155             COMMISSIONER ARPIN:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14156             I just have a few questions.  Would you agree to a COL that you would not solicit local advertising?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14157             MR. HILL:  Yes, we would.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14158             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And given your high level of confidence, Mr. Hill, would you agree to a COL that you will be producing 30 hours a week of locally‑produced programming by the end of year two of the licence period?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14159             MR. HILL:  We will agree to the conditions of licence that you think are appropriate and we'll work vigorously to meet those.  And I want to say that we take these things extremely seriously and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14160             THE CHAIRPERSON:  As do we.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14161             MR. HILL:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14162             MR. WOOD:  Commissioner, if I could just respond to the condition of licence for local advertising?  In the event that AVR reaches the threshold that would enable us to do local advertising, we think that ‑‑ we would hope that the Commission would keep in mind that there are probably emerging Aboriginal businesses that might want to advertise on AVR.  That's the only comment I'll make.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14163             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Oh, I thought your model was sponsorship, and that's a totally different issue.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14164             MR. WOOD:  Well, it's ‑‑ whether it's ‑‑ whether you're calling it sponsorship or whether you're calling it advertising, within your regulation, effectively if there's a condition there that says we can't do that, then we shut out local advertisers who might want to advertise on the radio station, or sponsors.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14165             THE CHAIRPERSON:   Well, I don't know ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14166             MR. HENNESSY:  It's not our ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14167             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Hennessy...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14168             MR. HENNESSY:  It's not our intention to have a retail sales force on the street competing with the commercial broadcasters.  Our focus is to generate funding to develop the network from those alternate sources that I pointed out, but the ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14169             THE CHAIRPERSON:  So on the understanding that sponsorship is not included in the concept of local advertising, will you agree to a COL that you would not solicit local advertising?  You're fully aware of the allegations of the fragility of this market.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14170             MR. HILL:  We'll agree to your conditions of licence and comply with them.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14171             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.  And you will agree to a condition of licence that by the end of year two of the licensing term, you will be here and producing 32 hours a week of locally produced programming?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14172             MR. HILL:  If that is the decision of the Commission, yes, we will.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14173             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, will you agree to that or not?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14174             MR. HILL:  We would.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14175             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14176             And as to your issue, Mr. Wood, of emerging businesses, I don't know if you heard this morning that SIGA, Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Association, has earned 40 million in profits, net profits.  And that, then, goes to my question to you, Mr. Hennessy.  Is there no thought of seeking out sponsorships from some of the not emerging, but already existing, very strong First Nation businesses in the West?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14177             MR. HENNESSY:  Absolutely.  Those are the types of organizations that we would want to talk to.  We have worked with, based on our ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14178             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Have you gone to Peace Hills Trust in Alberta?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14179             MR. HENNESSY:  No, we've been dealing with Ontario Lottery and Gaming Commission and with the casino ‑‑ or Casino Rama.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14180             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay, yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14181             MR. HENNESSY:  We've been dealing with them and they ‑‑ now again, there is a situation where they have not sponsored the program, but they have participated in programs dealing with addiction to gambling and have also purchased a campaign regarding responsibility in gambling.  So that's sort of a bit of a grey issue as to what is advertising.  It's not ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14182             THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's indeed unfortunate that you have received the opposition of the La Ronge Band which owns one of the very ‑‑ I'm going to say probably one of the top businesses in Saskatchewan, and that you've lost the confidence of the Prince Albert Grand Council because they also own one of the top ten businesses in Saskatchewan, so it's a ‑‑ it's unfortunate.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14183             At page 5 of your production of your presentation today, you've made this assertion that Canadians from coast to coast overwhelmingly approve of an Aboriginal national radio service, and I want you to review that assertion given the questions that Mr. Doering asked.  And if you look at page 29 of what he asked, I think you should be careful in using that assertion.  If you notice, what he said is, "I would like to ask you some questions about a concept for a new radio station in your city."

LISTNUM 95 \l 14184             Now, if you can tell me where it refers to an Aboriginal radio network, I would accept your assertion.  However, I only see three questions that he asked, and none of them refer to a national Aboriginal network.  So the demand, I agree, in Regina is high for an Aboriginal radio station.  And I wanted to talk a little bit ‑‑ I'm sorry, I'm not giving you time.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14185             MR. WOOD:  Commissioner, I'd just make a comment that we'd be more than pleased to follow up with a statement on that from Mr. Doering.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14186             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yeah.  Well, unless there were other questions, it's difficult to see the basis for his conclusion.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14187             I wanted to talk what about I call reinventing the wheel and I'm having some concerns, as you may have heard yesterday about that too, not in relation to yourselves but in relation to other issues.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14188             Do you have any relation with APTN?  Because they have a terrific news‑gathering machine already in force.  Have you tried to set up any cooperative arrangements with them?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14189             MR. HILL:  Madam Chair, to tell you the truth, we've been so engaged in the initiatives before us and the challenges before us as far as getting our stations on the air, that we haven't had the opportunity.  We've certainly agreed that it is ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14190             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Because they've got a lot of resources, you know, in terms of people in the North and ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14191             MR. HILL:  Yes, yes.  And we've always thought that once we get to a certain point, that ‑‑ and that's the relationship building part and looking for partnerships and so forth where we can, I guess, mutually benefit from these relationships that we would do that.  But I guess we saw a sequence, and we were very much focused on getting our stations on the air and meeting our commitments.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14192             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And they also have ‑‑ Mr. Wood, they have a national talk show, and it would make imminent sense for me that ‑‑ if you would rebroadcast it, and simply because APTN sometimes doesn't have the station on the ‑‑ the spot on the dial under 20, I mean it makes sense to me that that would achieve some of your objective, and then you could build into developing your own in ‑‑ rather than redoing something.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14193             MR. WOOD:  Yes, I think that's absolutely correct but I also think there's such a pent up demand to express points of view ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14194             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yeah.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14195             MR. WOOD:  ‑‑ from different regions of the country that ‑‑ and also, radio does deliver the component of access to our service on free over‑the‑air radio, so it's available to people who might not have access in certain workplace locations or, for example, in their vehicle.  There are a lot of programs that they wouldn't be able to access that are on APTN, and likewise.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14196             So if we were running the APTN service, it's ‑‑ it would certainly be a benefit to us, but it ‑‑ our programming would be of benefit to them as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14197             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, I agree.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14198             MR. WOOD:  They receive a significant amount of revenue through cable fees and I think it goes with the territory that, if you have the revenue, you can generate high quality programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14199             And when AVR completes its financing and revenue plans, it too will provide high quality programming, but we certainly think there is merit in meeting with Mr. Larose and his staff and talking about those possible synergies.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14200             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And in terms of your library, it also seems to me like you're reinventing the wheel because, when you first appeared in front of us in Toronto, your panel consisted of Mr. Dave McLeod of NCI, one of the pre‑eminent ‑‑ I'm going to say ‑‑ experts on Aboriginal music in Canada, and he does the top 20 every week and certainly has been around Aboriginal music forever.  And I'm sure his library, if you cooperated, would ‑‑ could also build ‑‑ you could build together.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14201             Ms Mosseau, you wanted to ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14202             UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Turn your mic on.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14203             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Like, I just constantly hear rebuilding, and it seems to me cooperation would be a far better way to go.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14204             MS MOUSSEAU:  If I can talk first about APTN?  APTN is an amazing channel.  It is ‑‑ it's absolutely needed to happen here in Canada, but right now ‑‑ at least in my opinion, and I think that's the opinion of most people that watch the shows that they have.  It tends to be very North‑centric.  They deal a lot with Canada's north and reserve communities, small communities' issues that they have to deal with on a daily basis.  Aboriginal Voices Radio is focusing on the urban Aboriginals.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14205             So right now when we look at creating our talk shows, we have to look at issues that are most affecting the urban Aboriginals.  And then, you know, perhaps in the future when we can look at a larger collaboration, when we can ‑‑ instead of separating urban Aboriginals, reserve Aboriginals, Inuit, the North, and the different provinces, we can end up in a position where we're all together as one.  And at that point APTN and AVR working together is ‑‑ it makes logical sense but, right now, we have to look at what our mandate is, and that is serving Aboriginal ‑‑ the urban Aboriginal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14206             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14207             You now have two minutes to convince us.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14208             MS BENNETT:  Sorry, could I just address a couple of housekeeping matters?  Sorry, just a few quick clarifications.  You said today that you would ensure that no less than 2 percent of all programming during a broadcast week would be spoken‑word programming in an Aboriginal Canadian language.  Is that a commitment by COL?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14209             MR. HILL:  That is a commitment we're prepared to make.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14210             MS BENNETT:  Okay, by condition of licence?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14211             MR. HILL:  Yes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14212             MS BENNETT:  Okay, thanks.  Now, earlier you talked with Commissioner Arpin about filing financial projections.  My understanding is that there are no financial projections on the file, so could you file those today, maybe if you've got them with you, right after your presentation?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14213             MR. HILL:  Yes, we have them with us and we can file them today.

‑‑‑ Undertaking / Engagement

LISTNUM 95 \l 14214             MS BENNETT:  Okay.  And similarly with the program descriptions, if you could file those at the same time?  Okay.  And the last part was documentation on the availability of funds.  Would you have that information available today as well?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14215             MR. HILL:  The availability of funds, what was that referring to?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14216             MS BENNETT:  Well, you had a discussion with Commissioner Arpin about the various sources of funding that you are projecting, and I think you spoke with him about the possibility of filing some documentation ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14217             MR. HILL:  Oh, okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14218             MS BENNETT:  ‑‑ with respect to those sources?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14219             MR. HILL:  Yes.  Yes, but I don't think that we have all of that information today, but we can file that very quickly ‑‑ oh, we can?  Oh, okay.  Well, I guess ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14220             MS BENNETT:  Well ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14221             MR. HILL:  I ‑‑ I'm sorry, I stand corrected.  We do have that information with us and we can file that.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14222             MS BENNETT:  Okay, great.  Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14223             MS MOUSSEAU:  And I'll get that other document to you right away.  I just have to go print it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14224             MS BENNETT:  Okay, thank you.  That's it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14225             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now two minutes.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14226             MR. HILL:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14227             I'd like to, I guess, talk about the importance of AVR and then, if we have time in the two minutes, I'd like to ask Lewis Cardinal to finish up.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14228             The mission of AVR is to improve the lives of Aboriginal people, and we think that our role through radio broadcasting is a very important one to do that.  There's ‑‑ currently exists a market gap in Regina.  There is ‑‑ there is no radio broadcast that's specifically targeted to the Aboriginal community here, so that's one thing that we believe is very important in this consideration.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14229             AVR, in being virtually 100 percent Aboriginal, we believe that we are one of the leaders and will be one of the leaders in helping emerging Aboriginal talent, both spoken‑word talent and music talent.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14230             The dialogue that AVR would be able to provide regarding just a wide array of Aboriginal issues is extremely important to this community, and not only to hear the dialogue, but to participate in the dialogue as well.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14231             We would like to respectfully remind the Commission that it is in the Broadcast Act to provide for such a service as ‑‑ when that becomes possible.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14232             We will add to the diversity of the broadcasting here in Regina.  We are committed to preserving, protecting and promoting Aboriginal languages.  We believe that's extremely important to the Aboriginal communities across the country, as well as extremely important to the communities that are in the area here.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14233             And we don't believe that we're going to negatively impact any of the incumbents in any significant way, so I guess essentially that we believe we're an important piece ‑‑ part of improving lives of Aboriginals here in Regina.  And Lewis, if ‑‑

LISTNUM 95 \l 14234             MR. CARDINAL:  We're trying to reconnect our communities with each other.  I just ‑‑ as a part of our historical understanding of Canada, we know that the major urban centres across Canada were built upon these areas where indigenous peoples gathered, where many nations came together and celebrated and traded and did various kinds of business together.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14235             Regina, if it is not a part of the AVR network, will be a gaping hole for us because we find, and we know, that the importance of the voice of the Aboriginal and indigenous people here in this area is a very important dialogue.  Our elders are telling us that we have to take the opportunities and create opportunities for the Aboriginal people to have a chance to communicate again, as we did in times of old; gathering together and sharing our stories and learning from each other.  That's what AVR is about.  It's about relationships and it's about relationship building.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14236             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Hill.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14237             We will now take a 15‑minute break by my watch.  Set your time.  It is 25 to, so that will mean 10 to.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1035 / Suspension à 1035

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1050 / Reprise à 1050

LISTNUM 95 \l 14238             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order please.  I want to welcome you.  I want to, first, say that the time that we spent on AVR is ‑‑ may have seemed an extraordinary amount of time for one applicant.  However, we have three applications from AVR on this hearing; one for Regina, one for Saskatoon, and the third, their renewal.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14239             And the evidence we obtained was for the purposes of all three applications, so I don't wish anybody to feel that there was anything untoward about that time taken in questioning.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14240             Madam Secretary...?

LISTNUM 95 \l 14241             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14242             We are now ready to proceed with item 16 on the agenda which is an application by Natotawin Broadcasting Inc. to amend the licence of the Native radio program undertaking CJLR‑FM, La Ronge, Saskatchewan.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14243             The licensee proposes to add an FM transmitter at Regina to broadcast the programming of CJLR‑FM La Ronge in order to serve the population of Regina.  The transmitter would operate on frequency 90.3 megahertz, channel 212C1 with an effective radiated power of 43,000 watts non‑directional antenna, antenna height of 190 metres.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14244             Appearing for the applicant is Ms Deborah Charles, who will introduce her colleague.  You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation.  Ms Charles...?

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

LISTNUM 95 \l 14245             MS CHARLES:  Good morning.  (Native language spoken).

LISTNUM 95 \l 14246             My name is Deborah Charles.  I'm the chief executive officer for Missinipi Broadcasting and I'm here making a presentation to the Commission today.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14247             My colleague is Darrell Prokopie.  He's the director of sales and marketing, and we're here today to present our application.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14248             THE SECRETARY:  Please go ahead with your presentation.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14249             MS CHARLES:  Okay.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14250             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Can I get Darrell's last name again, please?  I didn't quite hear it.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14251             MR. PROKOPIE:  Certainly.  It's P‑R‑O‑K‑O‑P‑I‑E, pronounced Prokopie.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14252             COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14253             MS CHARLES:  Tansi, edlanete, bonjour, good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the CRTC.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14254             First, I want to thank the Commission for giving me the opportunity to be here to speak to MBC's application for an RM rebroadcast transmitter to serve the Aboriginal listening audience of Regina, Saskatchewan.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14255             We at MBC believe that the quality news and informational spoken word in Aboriginal languages, programming and entertainment by way of our Aboriginal musicials and performance artists are two of the most important ways to expose urban Canadian listening audiences to Aboriginal culture, philosophy, ideas, opinions, music and artists, and hence expand their appreciation of Canada's diverse cultures and peoples.  That is why those elements are here ‑‑ are the core of our broadcast programs.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14256             MBC feels that the objectives for Canada's broadcasting systems are adequately addressed in the Broadcasting Act in that it states that programming and music should be predominantly Canadian and that the listeners should be provided with a varied and comprehensive programming from a variety of sources.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14257             MBC feels that the ‑‑ Canada's broadcasters have sorely neglected the Aboriginal variety of programming and have failed competently to respond to the needs of growing urban Aboriginal demographics, both here in Regina and elsewhere.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14258             The approval of our application so that they may provide Aboriginal language radio service to Regina area will go some way in redressing this oversight.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14259             MBC feels that the MBC/Natotawin application for a rebroadcast transmitter to carry our programs to the Aboriginal and non‑Aboriginal listeners of Regina is appropriate, and it is viable and, just as importantly, a culturally respectful response to a known need for a greater Aboriginal variety in quality radio programming.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14260             The Canadian Broadcast Act states that all programming should be of a high standard, balanced on matters of public concern, relevant to local communities, and reflect Canada's rich cultural diversity.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14261             MBC/Natotawin believes that in many respects it actually has been raised ‑‑ raising and indeed establishing the bar on the standards of the radio broadcasting relevant to the Aboriginal people on this ‑‑ of this country.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14262             I know that MBC is unique in its dedication to addressing those concerns relevant to the Aboriginal communities in ‑‑ of this province.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14263             It is MBC's view that it is only fitting that the CRTC would regulate Aboriginal radio with respect to the content offered in a manner similar to the regulation in place for non‑Aboriginal broadcasting undertakings, but we also believe that there must be an appreciation of inherent cultural differences between the Aboriginal and mainstream segments of society and how our people perceive and interpret what is offered to them over the airways.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14264             We at MBC seek to refine and improve the standards of broadcasting content directed towards our people, not to dismiss, abrogate or lower them.  Most importantly, we know that Aboriginal people want to hear Aboriginal broadcasters speaking and understanding their own language, providing them with radio programs that they can relate to and easily comprehend.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14265             Respectfully our application for a licence for a rebroadcast transmitter carries with it our commitment to honour in all aspects of news and information content and Aboriginal language usage and promotion of Aboriginal artists.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14266             I do not wish to speak at length about the quality of MBC's radio service in the short time available, but I have made provisions today to all the members of the Commission to receive a copy of my speaking notes here, and also other notes that clearly outline our high standard of service and historical commitment of MBC to the provision of the best of radio, all listeners Aboriginal and otherwise.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14267             Specifically MBC by its application makes the following commitments and guarantees:  MBC guarantees the Commission the daily provision of Aboriginally relevant newscasts, information and entertainment content.  MBC guarantees the Commission that it will provide significantly more dedicated Aboriginal language programming and the promotion of and airplay of Aboriginal artists and performance ‑‑ performers in the daily programs than any other radio station in the province can, could or would provide.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14268             MBC guarantees the Commission that it will provide these culturally and linguistically relevant broadcasting programs to the Aboriginal community of Regina in a professional and timely manner.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14269             MBC guarantees the Commission that it will ensure the inclusion of content of specific concern to Regina's Aboriginal residents and will foster ties with the Aboriginal community for its wellbeing and benefit.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14270             MBC guarantees the Commission that it will uphold to any ‑‑ all rules of the Broadcasting Act including a commitment to cover, fulfil the Canadian content requirements.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14271             With respect to five issues that the Commission stated they wished to address in their correspondence as at October 16th, two ‑‑ 2006, I received a letter and I'll go through them in point form the way it was written to me.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14272             In addition to the English, MBC utilizes three main spoken Aboriginal languages used in Saskatchewan; Cree, Dene and Michif in its program content and provides over 20 regularly scheduled dedicated Aboriginal language programming on a weekly basis.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14273             MBC also broadcasts Aboriginal language features throughout the day and during weekend programmings ‑‑ programs.  Our Monday through Friday Aboriginal language program ‑‑ programs are the daily Missinipi Achimowin program hosted and presented in the Cree and Michif languages, and the Dene ‑‑ and the daily Missinipi Dene Honi programming presented in the Dene language.  Both Achimowin and Dene Honi programs are inclusive of hourly newscasts, summaries that are inclusive of all local, regional, provincial, national and international news and are delivered in Cree, Dene and Michif in ‑‑ for our audience.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14274             Our Aboriginal language programming ‑‑ programs are also inclusive of open‑line presentations where listeners can voice their opinions in Aboriginal languages on a broad spectrum of issues.  The Achimowin and Dene Honi programs also deliver intensive informational content on topics that cover the gamut of Canadian Aboriginal listeners' interests in health, education, environment, justice, culture, languages, history and safety to major and minor political issues along with numerous other audience concerns.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14275             MBC has also hosted and aired hundreds of open‑line broadcast and talk show programming using Aboriginal language in the different dialects and provides in-depth, on location programming for community gatherings and events of importance to our audience.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14276             Through these and other distinctive programming approaches, MBC offers a platform for all ages to express themselves in their language and their dialects, and to be heard from elders to youth.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14277             MBC also presents its word of the day programming several times a day throughout the week, giving listeners the ‑‑ an opportunity to come to know, understand Aboriginal language used in everyday speech.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14278             MBC is prepared to offer expanded language programming to other Aboriginal language used in Saskatchewan as the opportunity presents itself.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14279             I'll just give the floor to him.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14280             MR. PROKOPIE:  Thank you.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14281             Aboriginal language vocal music.  MBC sponsors and promotes Aboriginal artists through consistent airplay 24/7 and significantly supports Aboriginal musicians and singers in the way that most matters, via our playlist.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14282             MBC will continue to promote Aboriginal artists to the people of Saskatchewan as we are the only broadcaster in the province that has demonstrated a commitment to Aboriginal talent by the simplest, most logical means available, and that is by playing their music for our listeners.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14283             Almost a quarter of music played on a daily basis on MBC is by Aboriginal artists, many of whom are locally based.  MBC has provided Aboriginal artist in northern Saskatchewan with their first opportunities to record their music and has actively been the catalyst and vehicle of our musician sponsorship through the provision of talent showcases and public performances.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14284             MBC has hosted Aboriginal talent searches that have been simulcast on our network since 1994 and we have sponsored and broadcast the Voices of the North talent show, an Aboriginal talent showcase.  MBC's talent search top prize is studio time and the songs are then broadcast on MBC.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14285             Over 100 performers have benefited from MBC's support of developing artistry through talent searches and showcases.  Additionally, MBC has spent its entire operational history as a promoter of national Aboriginal recording and performance artists as a matter of cultural respect and dedication.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14286             The reality is that MBC is the main provider of access to an audience for many Aboriginal artists and cultural producers.  We have presented their talent to the Aboriginal and non‑Aboriginal listening audience in Saskatchewan's communities for over two decades.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14287             Moving on to cultural programming.  MBC has a culturally attuned 28‑member staff, including a news and Aboriginal language production staff of seven, all of whom are Aboriginal.  The majority of them speak Cree, Dene or Michif, and some speak more than one Aboriginal language.  For more than two decades MBC has employed the majority of Aboriginal speaking broadcasters in Saskatchewan.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14288             Two of our staff have been chosen as national Aboriginal role models in the past 12 years.  We have an honour roll of over 40 board members and over 100 broadcast personnel coming out of the cultural milieu of Aboriginal society who have served and contributed to the growth of MBC as an organization over the past 22 years.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14289             MBC has created a legacy of unique cultural and linguistic heritage and its operations to date represent a genuine success story for the Aboriginal people of Saskatchewan.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14290             Our cultural programming covers and reports in‑depth on everything from Aboriginal spirituality, folklore, legends and stories, to traditional medicine use and Aboriginal food preparation and survival skills, along with the inherent viewpoints, opinions, ideas, and philosophy that they all entail.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14291             We are the only broadcaster in Saskatchewan to consistently cover Aboriginal trappers conventions and also to speak to the events and happenings surrounding all Aboriginal fields of employment, both traditional and non‑traditional.  We cover language conferences, elders gatherings, Aboriginal political elections and Aboriginal sporting events on the local, regional, provincial, national and international level.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14292             As an example, MBC began reporting live with its own reporters from the International Indigenous Games more than a decade ago.  We do all of this with a heavy emphasis on Aboriginal language use and presentation both by our staff and by the Aboriginal persons with whom we are actively engaged with in covering the story.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14293             We at MBC are mandated and entrusted to bring Aboriginal culture, languages, ideas, heritage and their perspective to the people of Saskatchewan.  It is an obligation we take seriously.  MBC is the radio media outlet of choice for most Aboriginal communities as well as the primary source of information for and about numerous Aboriginal organizations and individuals, and is an active participant in the public promotion of Aboriginal intellectual capacity and growth throughout the medium of radio by way of news, information, philosophy, political and social opinion, music, arts and culture.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14294             Our projected audience.  MBC, by its very nature, is a non‑traditional broadcaster and we have always avoided excessive commercial style, promotional and glamorization of our service and operations.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14295             In each and every community, we have grown to serve ‑‑ in each community that we have grown to serve, we have relied on the word of mouth of the Moccasin Telegraph in building and growing our audience, thus we project our listener numbers to be low to nominal in the initial stages of providing our programs to the Regina listening audience.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14296             We do not expect to see major shifts in listener demographics.  Our experience to date indicates that there will be an evolving awareness of what MBC has to offer the Aboriginal and non‑Aboriginal listeners and that there will be a corresponding, reflective positive rise in the MBC listening audience numbers.  We anticipate having a minimum of 20,000 listeners by the third year of operation.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14297             In making these loose projections, MBC has taken into account the expanding Aboriginal population demographics presented by Stats Canada and have balanced that with other known quantities such as the strength of our Aboriginal entities and organizations in Regina, and the participation rate and contact with urban Aboriginal society that they have experienced.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14298             Next we move on to our anticipated revenue projections.  MBC anticipates minimal economic revenues to be derived from its establishment of the Regina rebroadcast transmitter during its first two years of operation.  MBC does hope to reach a positive revenue flow from advertising sales by the third to fourth year so as the cover costs of the rebroadcast transmitter installation and its ongoing operational expenses.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14299             MBC seize its ‑‑ sees its responsibility to providing a service to the Aboriginal audience of Regina regardless of revenues, though by the end of the third year, as stated, we do anticipate a close‑to‑break‑even prospect.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14300             MBC has no immediate plans to pursue advertising revenues through active solicitation as there are no plans in place to hire a sales representative to be based out of Regina.  MBC will continue to utilize its four‑person sales team based out of Prince Albert to service the advertising clients of MBC.

LISTNUM 95 \l 14301