TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

             THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

               TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

             TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT

              LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

           ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

                          SUBJECT:

Review of regulatory framework for Northwestel Inc. /

Examen du cadre de réglementation

applicable à Norouestel Inc.

HELD AT:                              TENUE À:

Convention Centre                     Centre des congrès

High Country Inn                      High Country Inn

4051 4th Avenue                       4051, 4^e rue

Whitehorse, Yukon                     Whitehorse (Yukon)

July 10, 2006                         Le 10 juillet 2006

Transcripts

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

Transcription

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

               Canadian Radio‑television and

               Telecommunications Commission

            Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

               télécommunications canadiennes

                 Transcript / Transcription

Review of regulatory framework for Northwestel Inc. /

Examen du cadre de réglementation

applicable à Norouestel Inc.

BEFORE / DEVANT:

Richard French                        Chairperson / Président

Helen del Val                         Commissioner / Conseillère

Barbara Cram                          Commissioner / Conseillère

Andrée Noël                           Commissioner / Conseillère

Ronald Williams                       Commissioner / Conseiller

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

Madeleine Bisson                      Secretary / Secrétaire

Peter McCallum/                       Legal Counsel /

Leanne Bennett                        Conseillers juridiques

HELD AT:                              TENUE À:

Convention Centre                     Centre des congrès

High Country Inn                      High Country Inn

4051 4th Avenue                       4051, 4^e rue

Whitehorse, Yukon                     Whitehorse (Yukon)

July 10, 2006                         Le 10 juillet 2006

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

                                                 PAGE / PARA

Presentation by the City of Yellowknife             8 /   52

  Reply by Northwestel                             51 /  283

Opening Statement by Northwestel                   65 /  366

Opening Statement by UCG                           73 /  404

Opening Statement by GNWT                          77 /  430

Opening Statement by Telus                         93 /  501

AFFIRMED:  SCOTT ROBERTS                          100 /  545      

AFFIRMED:  MARK WALKER

AFFIRMED:  MURIEL CHALIFOUX

AFFIRMED:  RHONDA KRAUSS

Examination by Northwestel                        100 /  546

Examination by Consumers Groups                   103 /  574

Examinatino by the Government of Yukon            167 / 1031

Examination by Telus                              202 / 1241

Examination by the Commission                     241 / 1523

               EXHIBITS / PIÈCES JUSTICATIVES

                                                 PAGE / PARA

1       Table 1:  Northwestel Actual/Forecast     102 /  572

        Operating Revenues from 2002‑2007

        provided by the Consumers Group

               Whitehorse, Yukon / Whitehorse (Yukon)

‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Monday, July 10, 2006

    at 0900 / L'audience débute le lundi

    10 juillet septembre 2006 à 0900

LISTNUM 1 \l 11                THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order, please.  A l'ordre, s'il vous plaît.

LISTNUM 1 \l 12                Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.  Welcome to this public hearing.  My name is Richard French, I am the Vice‑Chairman of Telecommunications for the Commission.  I am going to be the Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 13                I am very happy to be here in Whitehorse and have this opportunity to hear your views on a number of important telecommunications issues.

LISTNUM 1 \l 14                With me on the Panel, on my immediate left, Helen del Val, Commissioner for British Columbia and the Yukon.

LISTNUM 1 \l 15                On my far left, Ron Williams, Commissioner for Alberta and the Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 16                On my immediate right, Barbara Cram, Commissioner for Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

LISTNUM 1 \l 17                On my far right, Andrée Noël, Commissioner for Québec.

LISTNUM 1 \l 18                We have a number of Commission staff here as well.  You will see them in the front table at my left.  Hearing Secretary Madeline Bisson, Staff Leader Christine Bailey; Legal Counsel Peter McCallum and Leanne Bennett.

LISTNUM 1 \l 19                Several years ago the Commission held a public hearing in Whitehorse.  In that hearing the CRTC considered, among other things, the implementation of long distance competition in Northwestel's operating territory, a plan to improve the telecommunications network in the North, and the regulatory framework that would be appropriate for Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 110               Il y a plusieurs années, le conseil a tenu une audience publique à Whitehorse.  Parmi les points abordés il avait été question de l'instauration de la concurrence dans le secteur de l'interurbain, dans le territoire d'exploitation de Norouestel, d'un projet pour améliorer le réseau des télécommunications dans le Nord et de l'adoption d'un cadre de réglementation approprié pour Norouestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 111               In Telecom Public Notice CRTC 2006‑1, Review of Regulatory Framework for Northwestel Inc., the CRTC's first thought in the new year, the Commission initiated this proceeding, today's proceeding to establish a new regulatory framework to succeed to the one that has been in effect for the last six years.

LISTNUM 1 \l 112               Some of the issues that we expect will be discussed over the course of this hearing include the following:

LISTNUM 1 \l 113               a new regulatory framework proposed by Northwestel which focuses on the regulation of price changes rather than profits, called in telecom jargon "price caps";

LISTNUM 1 \l 114               rate changes proposed by Northwestel to local, long distance and other services prior to implementing this framework in 2007;

LISTNUM 1 \l 115               the appropriate amount of funding for the provision of service to high‑cost areas;

LISTNUM 1 \l 116               long distance competition in Northwestel's territory; and

LISTNUM 1 \l 117               various financial and other issues related to this proceeding.

LISTNUM 1 \l 118               We wish to hear as many views as possible.  To this end, we will begin today by hearing from members of the general public.  To the best of our knowledge there is no one present in the room at this point who wishes to be heard.  If there is, if we err in that regard, please signal your presence to the meeting secretary, Madam Bisson, who is looking hopefully out over the audience.  No.

LISTNUM 1 \l 119               After we have heard from those people, who are not manifesting themselves, we are going to go to a teleconference to Northwestel's offices in Fort Nelson and Yellowknife, or rather, in order, Yellowknife and Fort Nelson.

LISTNUM 1 \l 120               In the interest of ensuring that as many oral submissions as possible can be heard, the submissions will be limited to 10 minutes each.

LISTNUM 1 \l 121               When everyone is finished with their presentations, assuming those presentations take more than an hour, we will take a short break.

LISTNUM 1 \l 122               In any event, the next phase of the proceeding will be NorthwesTel being given the opportunity to respond to any comments heard today.  NorthwesTel can also address any comments raised by the general public in its written reply, which is to be filed with the Commission by August 4th.

LISTNUM 1 \l 123               We don't expect that this phase of the hearing will go much beyond an hour.

LISTNUM 1 \l 124               After we hear comments from the general public and the response of NorthwesTel, if any, we will start with the cross‑examination phase of the hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 125               I would like to take this opportunity to specifically welcome those who will be joining us either in person or via teleconference this morning.  We thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to be with us here.  We would like to assure you that your comments are important and will be taken into consideration when the decision is made.

LISTNUM 1 \l 126               We look forward to what promises to be a very interesting and informative hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 127               At this point I would like to ask legal counsel to address the process that we will be following today.

LISTNUM 1 \l 128               MR. McCALLUM:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 129               As stated by the Chairman, I am Peter McCallum, one of the Commission's legal counsel, and I have Leanne Bennett with me today.

LISTNUM 1 \l 130               As indicated in the Commission's organization and conduct letter that was issued on the 22nd of June, 2006, we plan to sit from 9:00 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. each day.  We will take a lunch break of about an hour and a half, as well as a 15‑minute break at mid‑morning and at mid‑afternoon.

LISTNUM 1 \l 131               The hearing will conclude no later than Friday, July 21st and it may finish even sooner than that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 132               While we do not anticipate sitting into the evenings or the weekend, it may be necessary to consider these options.  We will watch our progress and you will be advised of any changes to the schedule that become necessary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 133               Une salle d'examen publique située dans la salle de conférence A sera ouverte à toutes les parties et au public pour la durée de l'audience. Vous pourrez y trouver un exemplaire du dossier public de l'instance.  La secrétaire de l'audience appellera chaque personne qui s'est préalablement inscrite auprès du conseil.  Si vous n'êtes pas déjà inscrit, mais vous désirez venir aujourd'hui, allez en parler à la secrétaire de l'audience, s'il vous plaît.

LISTNUM 1 \l 134               As I said in French, there is a public examination room open to all parties and the public for the duration of the hearing.  It is in Conference Room A.  There is a complete copy of the public record of the proceeding there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 135               The hearing Secretary will call each person who is registered in advance with the Commission.  If there is anyone here who hasn't registered in advance and who would like to speak today, please speak with her.

LISTNUM 1 \l 136               All submissions heard at this public hearing will be transcribed and will form part of the public record of this proceeding.  To ensure the court reporters are able to produce an accurate transcript, please ensure your microphone is turned on ‑‑ by pressing the button ‑‑ when you are speaking and when you are finished, please turn it off.

LISTNUM 1 \l 137               When you are in the hearing room, we would ask you to please turn off your cell phones, pagers, Blackberries and other text messaging devices as they are an unwelcome distraction for participants and Commissioners, and they may cause interference on the internal communication system used by the translators and court reporters.

LISTNUM 1 \l 138               Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 139               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 140               THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 141               Three participants have registered and would like to present their views to the Commission today.  Two of the participants are from Yellowknife and one from Fort Nelson.

LISTNUM 1 \l 142               We would like to start this morning with Mr. Van Tighem, Mayor of Yellowknife.

LISTNUM 1 \l 143               Mr. Van Tighem.

LISTNUM 1 \l 144               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning, Mr. Van Tighem.

LISTNUM 1 \l 145               We have an audio problem, I think.

LISTNUM 1 \l 146               Mr. Mayor, we are not hearing you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 147               Check, please, and make sure that our end is on.

‑‑‑ Pause

LISTNUM 1 \l 148               THE CHAIRPERSON:  I know they can hear us.  The question is can we hear them.

‑‑‑ Technical difficulties / Difficultés techniques

LISTNUM 1 \l 149               Mr. Mayor, I am assuming you are speaking.  Can you nod your head and indicate that you are hearing me.

LISTNUM 1 \l 150               All right.  He is hearing me and we are not hearing him, Claude.  Can we do something about that, please.

‑‑‑ Technical difficulties / Difficultés techniques

LISTNUM 1 \l 151               THE CHAIRPERSON:  We are delighted to have both visual and audio connections to Yellowknife.  Please proceed.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

LISTNUM 1 \l 152               MR. VAN TIGHEM:  Thank you very much.  Good morning.  My name is ‑‑

‑‑‑ Technical difficulties / Difficultés techniques

LISTNUM 1 \l 153               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Mayor, we have a connection, but the audio quality is such that we are going to have to do some work.  I am very sorry to interrupt you, but we are not hearing you clearly enough.

‑‑‑ Technical difficulties / Difficultés techniques

LISTNUM 1 \l 154               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Let's try it at that level.

LISTNUM 1 \l 155               MR. VAN TIGHEM:  We do appreciate the opportunity to present via videoconferencing, but we would also like to encourage and invite the Commission to visit us in Yellowknife, which, I might add, is one of the largest customer and revenue bases for Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 156               Our City and Territory are collectively experiencing the largest economic boom in Canada outside of the oil sands‑related projects in Alberta.  Canada is now ranked No. 3 in the world for diamond production, due solely to two world‑class mines operating in the Northwest Territories and headquartered here.

LISTNUM 1 \l 157               The mining exploration sector is booming due to across‑the‑board commodity price records.  Businesses in Yellowknife are operating at or near peak capacity to meet their ongoing needs.  The ‑‑

‑‑‑ Technical Difficulties / Difficultés techniques

LISTNUM 1 \l 158               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Mayor, if you want to proceed, we will see how we are doing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 159               MR. VAN TIGHEM:  I think it has cleared up a bit.  We were getting telephone ringing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 160               THE CHAIRPERSON:  I am told it is better for folks here if they pick it up off the wireless audio.

‑‑‑ Pause

LISTNUM 1 \l 161               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Go ahead, Mr. Mayor.  You were at the point of explaining the resource exploration boom.

LISTNUM 1 \l 162               MR. VAN TIGHEM:  The Mackenzie Delta and all of these activities should bode well for telecommunications service providers throughout Northern Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 163               While the focus of these hearings is on a review of the regulatory framework for Northwestel, I would be seriously remiss if I didn't preface my comments by stating that the company has been a good corporate citizen, which is due, in no small measure, to their ongoing support for the business, social and cultural organizations and activities within their operating territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 164               Of equal importance is their corporate culture, which encourages their employees to become actively involved in the community.  From this perspective our community has certainly been the recipient of the dedication and talents of this collective workforce, and there are a lot of things that happen here because of them.

LISTNUM 1 \l 165               For this reason, and because we so highly value the contribution of their employees, we would anticipate that there is no gradual erosion of staff positions in departments away from Yellowknife and the territories, as it was a commitment of previous senior management.

LISTNUM 1 \l 166               At a time when our economy is booming it's difficult to understand why, again, a Pan‑northern company with Northwestel's operation and history and knowledge would not be looking to expand their senior management representation and augment their support personnel to the hotter economic sectors.

LISTNUM 1 \l 167               In item No. 6 the Commission states that in Decision 2000‑746 the Commission established effective January 1, 2001, the terms and conditions for long‑term competition in Northwestel's territory.

LISTNUM 1 \l 168               The competitive framework for Northwestel included a bundled, subsidized Carrier Access Tariff at a rate of $0.07 per minute.

LISTNUM 1 \l 169               I would like to respectfully submit that this decision, while being well intentioned, has only so far created the illusion of a competitive environment.

LISTNUM 1 \l 170               This competitive monopoly that is enjoyed needs to be improved onwards toward a level playing field establishing true competition.

LISTNUM 1 \l 171               The CAT rate proposed is in the right direction.  However, we do maintain that it still needs to eventually be eliminated so that pure equal access competition may be considered by potential market entrants.

LISTNUM 1 \l 172               As well, all other monopoly cultural services that are acquired by potential competitors in order to provide this level of competition must be reasonably priced.  Anything less than this in your final decision 2006‑01 will only continue to perpetuate the myth of a long‑distance competitive environment.

LISTNUM 1 \l 173               It's important to note that as a result of CRTC 2000‑746, southern telephone companies have changed their existing national long‑distance calling plans coverage.

LISTNUM 1 \l 174               Also it's important to note all long‑distance calling cards now come with a disclaimer written in small print, usually on the back of the card, which excludes Northern Canada, Northwestel's operational district, from the benefits of the cheaper rates advertised.

LISTNUM 1 \l 175               But what is most ironic is a recent Bell Canada prepaid calling card advertisement "Call those who mean the world to you", whenever you want for next to nothing, 5.5‑cents per minute anywhere in Canada and the U.S., and then on the back of this in the small ‑‑ at the very bottom of the page in smaller print it says:

"NOTE:  Calls originating and terminating in Northern British Columbia, Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut are subject to a surcharge of 14‑cents per minute and 11‑cents per minute respectively."

LISTNUM 1 \l 176               I believe that Bell Canada owns Northwestel, and at a time when Bell is advertising calls from anywhere in southern Canada to such exotic locales as Denmark for 6.1‑cents a minute; Japan, 7.5‑cents a minute; or New Zealand at 7.8‑cents per minute, a call on a calling card from Yellowknife to Rae‑Edzo, or Behchoko it's called now, a distance of around 100 kilometres would cost 30.5‑cents per minute.

LISTNUM 1 \l 177               This is an interesting comparative long‑distance environment that has been created.

LISTNUM 1 \l 178               We support the need for Northwestel to continue to be regulated.  At the same time and in lieu of a competitive marketplace, we rely on the Commission to ensure that Northwestel is made to justify and ultimately be held accountable for their operational decisions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 179               We support the need for a continuation of SIP funding and we certainly recognize that this will need to rise as the CAT charge is reduced and eliminated.

LISTNUM 1 \l 180               We also support the introduction of a price regulation framework, however, given that competitors do not exist for any of the given services, we are somewhat reluctant to provide unqualified support.

LISTNUM 1 \l 181               While we understand the CRTC objectives as laid out in 2006‑01 background material, item No. 11, and fully agree with the principles stated, we would strongly suggest that this transition be a staged process, both for the benefit of Northwestel and their customers.

LISTNUM 1 \l 182               There is no suggested magic solution or formulas for a split rate base, however, we do feel that a fair split would be look at the monopoly local services and establish a fixed ROE combined with an element of SIP funding.

LISTNUM 1 \l 183               On the other side, all competitive or potentially competitive services, including long‑distance service, could fall under the umbrella of a price regulation framework.

LISTNUM 1 \l 184               We recognize, again, that there will need to be an element of SIP funding required to offset the reductions and eventual elimination of cap charges.

LISTNUM 1 \l 185               The pricing of these baskets and the ranges must clearly reflect the Commission's objective and principles previously stated.  Without incentives and/or risk and under the current regulatory program there is no compelling reason for the company to be innovative, efficient or proactive.

LISTNUM 1 \l 186               In many respects, it has been our smaller communication service providers who have introduced the latest technology and innovation.  I participated recently in a broadband conference which was by Aliant Services Canada and it was very interesting to hear who was providing what services in the North.  It actually lead to them rewriting their report, because there is some very advanced services available here, more so than on reserve communities in the southern part of Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 187               Northwestel has traditionally been slow to react and, even then, only arrived after the market has been proven.  Where the smaller service providers rely on an interface with a company, they are very often stymied by a bureaucracy that is either uninterested or incapable of responding in a timely manner.  A good example of this is the Primary Rate Interface Service that has been readily available in the south for the past five years.  Despite repeated customer requests and numerous promises, this service remains an illusion for those business customers who might wish to access the service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 188               This is but one example of an unsatisfied market.  Even where the company has established services, internet, cell phones, etc., they continue to lag the southern market in terms of related service offerings that could and should be contributing to growing their revenue.  If the company refuses to respond to the market demands and opportunities and they continue to drag their feet in growing revenues, then their revenue upside must be curtailed.  Risk and reward is a principle that we do believe in.

LISTNUM 1 \l 189               Northern customers are confused on a regular basis by some of the interactions between Northwestel and Bell.  Perhaps the Commission understands the interaction that lead to the sale and transfer of assets between Northwestel Mobility and Bell Mobility.  One would have thought this was a financially lucrative district for Northwestel, especially given the scarcity of competition in that district.

LISTNUM 1 \l 190               One has to wonder if revenue management or manipulations may have been behind the corporate restructuring.  The same holds true for the business relationship between Northwestel and Northwestel Cable in Yellowknife, in particular internet services and the migration of customers between these.  In both cases cell phones and internet service enhancements with one company are not necessarily matched by the other and so the operational transparency and maximization of revenue streams for the telephone company are compromised.

LISTNUM 1 \l 191               One of our concerns and probably the major one related to the increase requested is that we are very concerned about the potential of Raychuck with our Northern telecommunication consumer.  The City of Yellowknife is very actively pursuing the introduction of 9‑1‑1 services in an expedited yet responsible manner.  This is a major undertaking that will help both operational and financial implications for Northwestel, Yellowknife, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the City.  At the end of the process the northern consumer will be expected to contribute their fair share to this ongoing operation.  Traditionally, this fee has been paid as a surcharge of the phone bill.

LISTNUM 1 \l 192               Our concern is that a rate increase such as the ones proposed by Northwestel, when combined with the introduction of a 9‑1‑1 service fee, will have a serious negative effect, especially with respect to our business customers.  We note the Commission has deemed 9‑1‑1 service to be part of the standard basic service package.  Given this determination, we again feel very strongly that a portion of the SIP funding be allocated specifically for the provision of 9‑1‑1 services, not only for Yellowknife but also the entire Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 193               We recognize that CRTC 2006‑1 may not be the most appropriate forum to discuss 9‑1‑1 services and SIP funding, however we feel it important that the Commission be aware of our concerns, taking them into consideration when looking at the proposed rate increases.  We also hope that in your final deliberations and in your ultimate decision you will establish a mechanism to address 9‑1‑1 services and the related question of dedicated SIP funding.

LISTNUM 1 \l 194               The Commission has always protected the best interests of the northerner telecommunication consumer and we believe you can take credit and satisfaction in knowing that you have helped ensure that we enjoy the benefits of the communication age.

LISTNUM 1 \l 195               I would like to thank you and Northwestel for indulging me and comments from my community.  I firmly believe that while there may be differences of opinion, we are all on the same page when it comes to collectively recognizing the important role that telecommunication services play in our daily lives and just how important it is to build bridges to the future.

LISTNUM 1 \l 196               Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 1 \l 197               THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, are we going to questions now or are we going to proceed to Mr. Carter?

LISTNUM 1 \l 198               THE SECRETARY:  It's up to you.  You can go with the questions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 199               THE CHAIRPERSON:  I think we will go directly to Mr. Carter and then we will pose questions to the 2, our 2 colleagues in Yellowknife.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1100              Madam Secretary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1101              THE SECRETARY:  Okay.  The next participant is Mr. John Carter, representing Northwestel Territories Chamber of Commerce, Community Chambers of Commerce of Yellowknife, Inuvik, Norman Wells, Fort Smith, Fort Simpson, and Hay River.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1102              Mr. Carter, please.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1103              MR. CARTER:  Good morning ladies and gentlemen.  My name is John Carter.  I am the Executive Director of the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce.  I have with me, this morning, Mr. Gord Stewart.  Mr. Stewart is the representative from our Chamber to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.  And he will be making a presentation this morning.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1104              MR. STEWART:  Thank you very much, Mr. Carter and good morning ladies and gentlemen in Whitehorse.  My name is Gordon Stewart.  I'm a businessman in Yellowknife, President of Bradenbury Expediting, a logistics provider in this area.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1105              I would like to thank the CRTC for the opportunity to speak to the proposed changes to the Northwestel's rate structure.  I would have liked to be talking to you in person, but as you chose not to visit the Northwest Territories to hold in‑person community hearings, I hope that in talking to a TV, you nonetheless will receive the passion that the NWT Chamber of Commerce has on these important issues facing the Commission.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1106              The Northwest Territories and the city of Yellowknife in particular, is a very significant operation on revenue centre for Northwestel and as such we feel that the CRTC should have considered scheduling the NWT for public consultation.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1107              The Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce, with well over 100 direct members, is also the Pan‑territorial voice of over 700 NWT businesses that are represented by 6 local Chambers of Commerce.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1108              The businesses that we represent are diverse, ranging from major international corporations doing business in the Northwest Territories, to smaller home‑grown businesses.  The Chamber takes public positions on many topical issues, ranging from government policy to taxation issues, economic development proposals and as in this case, a proposed rate increase by regulated monopoly.  In all our public positions, the Chamber applies a simple litmus test.  Would this proposal, policy or idea be considered acceptable by our membership and confer, on balance, a net benefit to the majority of the NWT businesses that we represent?  We have, and will continue to strongly support those proposals, policies and ideas that meet this test and to vigorously oppose those that do not.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1109              This brings me to today's subject of discussion and the rate changes proposed by Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1110              Before I do that, I wish to acknowledge that Northwestel is a very good corporate citizen and Northwestel management have long been supporters of the Chambers of Commerce in the NWT where employees have previously held the positions of President of the Yellowknife and NWT Chambers.  As well, Northwestel provides donations and services and facilities without hesitation when communication project support is required.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1111              It has been very difficult for this Chamber to get into much detail with regard to this rate application and regulatory readjustment.  We feel that Northwestel has done a very bad job of communicating with their business customers regarding the impact of this proposal.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1112              It is recognized that there exists high financial costs and significant challenges in providing quality telephone service to all residents of the NWT, however the application lacks clarity for the non‑telecommunications‑educated person, which is the majority of our membership.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1113              Based on the information provided, I would like to touch on the immediate impact on businesses in the North as it relates to our understanding of the application submitted by Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1114              It appears that the northern business community will incur significant increase to their fixed basic rates.  Without an understanding of corresponding significant reductions in long distance rates, or even if the new rate structure will result in direct access to competitive alternatives.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1115              Northwestel stated this proposal was good for business.  While we may like to agree, we have not been provided the detail requested that would allow our board members to understand the impacts of this proposal on an average business owner in the Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1116              Until we can fully understand and see the requested information, we must strongly suggest to the Commission that we are not in support of any increase to our monthly line charges.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1117              To propose $5.00 a month increase is unacceptable without being assured that a corresponding reduction in long distance rates will occur.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1118              In the last rate hearing decision of 2001 we were led to believe that the framework was put in place for competition in the long distance market and that in time the North would have true competition.  While long distance rates were reduced to the business community, competition did not appear.  This was due to the high CAT rate established by the Commission.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1119              It is our understanding that the companies are requesting that this CAT rate be reduced from $0.07 cents to 0.825 of a cent.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1120              We fully support this reduction and suggest a further planned reduction towards the elimination of this CAT.  In this way, then choice and competition with regards to the telecommunications services will truly come to the Northwest Territories and be able to operate on a level playing field.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1121              We have competition in banking, airlines, satellite, cable TV, insurance, internet, heating and fuel companies in the North.  I guess what we would like to know is why we couldn't have local and long distance competition.  It seems that the other services that I just mentioned all have been able to find their way in the North and their rates are somewhat competitive, very competitive with the southern companies.  We would like the same opportunity in the telecommunications world.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1122              Members of the Northwest Territories Chamber strongly suggest to the Commission they have a responsibility to ensure that Northwestel, as the dominant and in some cases monopoly telephone communication service provider, deliver at a reasonable cost the same or similar services as the rest of Canada.  In this regard, our Members have been asking for the following services from Northwestel and/or Northwest Mobility.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1123              I heard somebody in Whitehorse mention that it would be very good manners if everybody would turn off their Blackberry and their text messaging devices.  We turned ours off, in my case three weeks ago when I left Edmonton for the last time.  Unfortunately, the service isn't available here.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1124              But we would like to see e‑mail, Blackberry‑type, cell phones.  Access to emergency services 9‑1‑1 still has not been provided to the Northwest Territories.  Use of other calling cards that they advertise price without the Northwestel service charge.  Services that enhance local competition of unregulated services such as voice mail and other enhanced services like PRI.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1125              Members would also like some clarification of Northwestel's services.  Who provides cell service in the North?  Is it Northwestel Mobility?  Is it Northwest Bell Mobility?  Is it Bell Mobility?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1126              Who provides high speed internet service?  Northwest Cable?  Northwestel?  Articom?  There seems to be a lack of clarity on where these services are being provided.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1127              We are in support of the proposed SIP "service improvement program" and their address of $40 million.  These funds are directed to providing the services outlined above to our businesses.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1128              Surely the Commission can direct Northwestel to provide clearly identified amount of funds for this subsidization to provide 9‑1‑1 services to the citizens of the Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1129              In the new regulatory framework, Northwestel is guaranteed a rate of return between 10 and 11 percent.  In today's business environment where banks are paying a quarter of a percent on saving account balances, this allowable rate of return seems very high and the envy of all businesses operating in the North.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1130              It is our feeling that this rate of return is too high and should be reduced as Northwestel operates in an almost risk‑free monopoly situation.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1131              We do not have sufficient information to comment on how the Northwestel proposed price cap regulation will change the situation.  Northwestel has only indicated that it is a good idea, but this has not been demonstrated, nor has there been a public information process to prove this to the residential and business community.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1132              Should Northwestel be given the advantages of a competitive environment when in fact they operate in a fully regulated environment?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1133              We are concerned when Northwestel states that one reason for this change is to give the company the reasonable opportunity to earn a fair return.  We strongly suggest that 10 to 11 percent is more than fair in today's economic environment.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1134              In conclusion, we do not support any rate increase in the business monthly line charge.  We do not support the high rate of return guaranteed to Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1135              We would suggest to the Commission that you direct Northwestel to use the SIP monies to bring access to emergency services, 9‑1‑1 service, to the North and provide those services normally provided to citizens of southern Canada, as outlined earlier.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1136              We request that you direct Northwestel to do a better job of communicating the rate applications and regulatory changes to the various interest groups in their service area.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1137              We would suggest for the next CRTC hearings that you consider travelling to the NWT and let the NWT public have face‑to‑face interaction with their public telecommunications regulator.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1138              I would like to thank you for the opportunity to bring the views of the business community of the NWT to you.  I hope that you take these comments as constructive suggestions toward improving the health of NWT business.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1139              Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1140              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Stewart.  Thank you, Mr. Carter.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1141              Commissioner Williams.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1142              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Good morning, Mayor Van Tighem and Mr. Stewart.  Believe me, I wish we were in Yellowknife as well.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1143              I have a couple of questions for each of you and you can either both answer or one answer, depending on how you feel about the questions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1144              For example, how best should the CRTC balance the desire for competition in the larger centres like Yellowknife with the obligation Northwestel has to serve all of the smaller, more remote communities?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1145              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  A good question.  And yes, there's not a ripple to be seen on the lake this morning.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1146              I think I made a comment in the presentation that if certain areas are a specific ROE allowing them to be internally subsidized and the other one allowed to become more open, that might answer the question.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1147              However, again we go back to the challenge of we are such a small market overall, including our huge cities of 20,000 people, which in most provinces wouldn't even be a town.  It is a bigger challenge.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1148              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Should the CRTC entertain two or multi‑tier type pricing rates for Northwestel's operating territory based upon the size of the market in each of the communities?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1149              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  I think I made a recommendation to that extent without any detail.  So I would say yes and turn this to Mr. Stewart to see if he has comments.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1150              MR. STEWART:  From a business perspective, what we would like to see is, No. 1, competition.  Now, how we set those rates ‑‑ I realize that there would be a balancing act.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1151              More to the point is the lack of basic services that everybody in southern Canada takes for granted.  I hear Call Display mentioned quite often.  I hear 9‑1‑1.  I hear that the Mobility services are ‑‑ I think, in Mr. Van Tighem's presentation, he mentioned that we don't see any of those services until they have been well tested and proven profitable before they come to the North.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1152              We don't enjoy those services in the Northwest Territories, and with the amount of commerce that is going on between our area of Canada and the rest of the world, we see a lot of Canadian, American, foreign travellers who come through here all the time who have no concept of why they can't use their cell phones when they get to certain locations, and why they can't get text messaging.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1153              Those are the types of services that we seem to be missing in Norman Wells.  We seem to be missing them in Inuvik.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1154              With the rate structure that is in place, it certainly dissuades competition.  So, in some way, if we could level the playing field ‑‑ maybe if Northwestel weren't interested in providing the services, then competition might be if the rate structure was a level playing field.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1155              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  I have heard many of your good ideas for normalizing the services in the Northwestel area with what other Canadians take for granted and currently enjoy.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1156              What would be the ideal telecom marketplace, say, in Yellowknife ‑‑ and you are very familiar with Yellowknife, Mr. Mayor ‑‑ and, then, in some of the other smaller communities.  Mr. Stewart, I am aware that you have businesses in both large and small centres.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1157              Tell us what would be an ideal situation in terms of services provided, pricing levels, levels of competition, types of competitors, and in which areas.  Help us paint a picture of what the ideal situation would be.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1158              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  That is a good challenge.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1159              First of all, with the RCMP, as an example, monitoring all of their calls from the smaller communities out of a service centre in Yellowknife, I don't see the challenge, or how huge the challenge would be to have the same type of function for 9‑1‑1 across the whole territory.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1160              In a perfect world, we would have a 9‑1‑1 service.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1161              In most of the small communities they can watch the same TV that any of us do, and everybody is phoning 9‑1‑1, and I know that a lot of them even try it in emergencies.  So that is one of the pushes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1162              The other thing is, we keep talking about Mobility and Cellular.  I know that the community of Fort Liard, which has about 580 people, has cell access.  This was pressed on them by the oil and gas industry when the pipeline construction was going on there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1163              Norman Wells, which has been an oil and gas centre, and will be growing over the next little while, does not, and I am not sure about Inuvik.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1164              Cell access seems to be something that can be put in.  If broadband can be in every community in the Northwest Territories, it would be interesting if cell were something similar.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1165              As far as pricing, it is always challenging in a regulated market to look at pricing when the marketplace always drifts towards the lowest cost.  I say that because a large number of my friends and associates here have Rogers and Telus cell phones which they use when they are travelling.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1166              There seems to be a gap in what is available here and how it works somewhere else.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1167              If I go to meetings in the States, I find frequently that I need to use my credit card in the phone because the Northwestel calling card won't be accepted, and that applies in the Telus region of Alberta and British Columbia.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1168              And I did speak to an executive of Telus and said, why won't you accept our calling card numbers with your customers, we are using your system?  And he said, well, they are Bell cards, so we don't take them, they are our competitors.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1169              So, fairly universality of acceptance, better focus on technology across the piece.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1170              I mean, Ron will probably remember that when we opened the bank branch in Fort Smith we did it with an ABM machine.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1171              The previous banking supplier had said it wasn't possible and we worked with Northwestel, put a slight delay in the modem and immediately it happened and it improved the retail economy of the community by 25 per cent just with somebody thinking a bit.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1172              So we are trying to promote them to increase the technology availability and, you know, start thinking ‑‑ rather than the old clichéd excuses of, we are in the North, it costs a lot to do it ‑‑ take on some of the things that SSI Micro has introduced internationally in Africa for various aid organizations and that where they are almost providing free access and still making a good return on it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1173              I don't know if Gord's got any ideas.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1174              MR. STEWART:  Well, I guess what I would ‑‑ if I could just add to that, Mr. Mayor.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1175              My colleagues that travel from the south, everybody gets used to the service package that they have in their local area and, unfortunately, most of the myth that services ‑‑ the services of their blackberry, their cell phone, and I just can't believe it's doing commerce in this part of the world any good to be trying to operate a telephone system or a mobility system that's not compatible with southern Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1176              And I just can't believe that rates are ‑‑ have to be the complete dominant force there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1177              You know, banks operate in the North, they operate on the same service charges they do in the south.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1178              Fuel companies, yes, you pay a little higher transportation cost, but...

LISTNUM 1 \l 1179              UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Canada Post.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1180              MR. STEWART:  You know, Canada Post operates up here.  Everybody seems to operate without ‑‑ and found a way to make it work, but the services that are provided are the same in the North as they are in the south.  And I guess that's what, from a business perspective, we would like to see.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1181              And I guess if Northwestel ‑‑ you know, and I go back to the ‑‑ I have been here since the CN/CP days, so I have seen things unfold quite slowly, but I guess if it's that difficult maybe what we should do is introduce competition and see if it can be ‑‑ you know, maybe it's not possible, but I don't believe that's the case.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1182              MR. CARTER:  I would like to pass out a comment on that tiered rate structure for the Yellowknife versus the communities.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1183              One of the realities of the Northwest Territories is we have 42,000 people spread out over one‑sixth of Canada's land mass in over 30 townships, hamlets and communities.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1184              The reality is, for example, for power generation in the North, other than Yellowknife, Hay River and Fort Smith that are on hydro from Snare Lake, the rest of our communities have to be powered by diesel generation, which is extremely expensive.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1185              Consequently, in order for people to live in these smaller communities, the Government of Northwest Territories has been forced to subsidize the kilowatt rate down to Yellowknife rates.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1186              This can mean in a small community like John Reed River, for example, the actual cost of power generation is about $3.50 a kilowatt hour which the government is then forced to sell ‑‑ to subsidize down to 17‑cents so it's affordable and people can still live there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1187              The same should apply to phone rates.  The reality is phone service must be affordable in the smaller communities, otherwise these people are completely disenfranchised.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1188              So, that is one of the issues one has to consider when you are talking about a tiered rate structure for the Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1189              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Carter, are you suggesting that the Government of the Northwest Territories, Territorial Government should subsidize phone rates in small communities?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1190              MR. CARTER:  Not if I want to continue to live in the Northwest Territories.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 1 \l 1191              MR. CARTER:  But I'm just using that as an example of, you know, the realities of business in the North, the realities of living in the North.  We have these hamlets, townships and communities and they are very, very high cost locales to live in.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1192              The reality is that people need basic phone service in these communities, it could quite often be a matter of life and death.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1193              So the reality is ‑‑ in a theoretical model one could look at pricing and say well, you know, Yellowknife can pay X, but communities would pay X plus more.  But the reality is that the communities are not as rich as Yellowknife.  So I am not suggesting anything other than the fact that there is requirement for subsidization.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1194              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, of course the subsidization exists doesn't it, I mean there is nearly $10 million in subsidy coming in from southern Canada every year under your telephone system.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1195              UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  That is correct but, as Mr. Stewart mentioned, we would be looking more along a SIP of about $40 million now.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1196              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, we have to discuss what SIP means, but that is another story.  There is a substantial subsidy and we are discussing what the size of the continuing subsidy will be for sure.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1197              Just before I pass the question onto Commissioner Cram, could I just clarify with you one thing?  The Commission does not regulate mobile telephone services so, you know, while you may have very legitimate concerns about the corporate identity of the supplier, about the homogeneity of the service package, about the completeness or otherwise of the offerings, all of those things are a function of the operations of the market and they are not regulated by the CRTC or by anybody else, except those general business regulations that apply to people who use public frequencies and who offer credit, contract debt and so forth in the same way that your businesses do.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1198              So I don't want to seem insensitive or unresponsive to your concerns about mobile services, but perhaps not the best use of your and our time to discuss them in too much detail at this point, because they are not regulated by the CRTC.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1199              Commissioner Cram.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1200              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you gentlemen, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Carter and Mr. Stewart.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1201              I wanted to go further into your request or your assertion that the SIP should pay for 9‑1‑1.  And as you know, I am assuming, the national contribution scheme is what funds the SIPs, the Service Improvement Plans, and in the south the contribution scheme does not pay for 9‑1‑1.  And although you say you want the same service as in southern Canada, I can tell you in Saskatchewan that there are plenty of communities of 20,000 and under that do not have 9‑1‑1, as in Manitoba, and are not getting funding to get 9‑1‑1 because that is not what the national fund is being used for.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1202              So given that background, that not everywhere in the south has 9‑1‑1 and it is not being subsidized by the contribution scheme, why would you say the national contribution scheme should pay for 9‑1‑1 in the North?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1203              MR. STEWART:  It is Gord Steward.  I wasn't aware that SIP was not paying for that service and I don't believe that anybody in Yellowknife is actually suggesting that we use the SIP to pay for 9‑1‑1.  What we are directing ‑‑ what we would like the Commission to do is ensure that 9‑1‑1 is available and I believe that the citizens of Yellowknife, I understand from most places in Canada and correct me if I am wrong, there is a line charge of a certain fee that is applied to 9‑1‑1.  Is that correct?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1204              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Yes, that is right.  Both the platform and the infrastructure.  There are two different charges.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1205              MR. STUART:  And I guess what I am saying is I have heard that ‑‑ and I guess another question, has the CRTC made any recommendations to Northwestel in the past regarding 9‑1‑1 service?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1206              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Can't tell you that.  Don't know.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1207              MR. STUART:  Does anybody on the panel know?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1208              THE CHAIRPERSON:  We will have an opportunity to discuss those issues.  Northwestel will come back and make some comments, Mr. Stewart, and no doubt we will wish to address that question.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1209              But let us recognize that, in principle, the CRTC is supportive of all citizens of Canada having 9‑1‑1.  But it turns out that there are both, as my colleague has pointed out, infrastructure and platform.  What she means is there are both changes that have to occur on the network and there are also operational changes in emergency response provisions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1210              Someone has to answer the phone and to answer it intelligently and usefully under severe time pressure.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1211              Those things cost money and mostly that money is found, my colleague will correct me if I'm wrong, most of that money comes from telephone companies and municipalities and provinces.  But in no case does a Service Improvement Program, a SIP pay for those services.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1212              UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  I don't think that we specifically made that comment in either of their presentations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1213              THE CHAIRPERSON:  I would like to correct you, you said it in so many words.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1214              UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Okay.  However, it is understood, we have spent several years working on 9‑1‑1 in various approaches.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1215              It is understood that the telephone infrastructure is paid for on an assessment as part of the telephone bill which led to my comment related to rate shock and avoiding that type of thing and secondly the platform which, in the case of Whitehorse and possibly in Yellowknife, is provided by the RCMP.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1216              There would be a per capita assessment which could be part of a telephone bill, if it was allowed, or it would be part of a simple assessment as far as the GMWT larger, that is something still to be determined.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1217              With regard to all of these identified things, we have already established that funding is available for it within this jurisdiction.  So it's not a specific ask that it be added to there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1218              Just to go back for a second, to the comment with regards to mobility, recognizing that it's not part of the discussion that we are involved in, could we then consider it as merely an example of the innovations that are available and not being introduced and possibly part of the underlying concerns that we are conveying today.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1219              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, absolutely, and we just want to be clear.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1220              I mean, if you wish to use your time and our time to discuss mobile, that's fine and we have heard your message.  And Mr. Flaherty, who is well‑connected with the owners of at least one of the 3 mobile companies, has heard your message.  So, you know, that is absolutely legit and if you want to continue, that is also legitimate.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1221              However, I just wanted to make clear to you that we don't feel terribly empowered to respond in any very constructive way with respect to that particular aspect.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1222              Commissioner Cram.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1223              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Mr. Mayor, you did talk about rate shock.  And you talked about it in combination with the business increase and the cost of 9‑1‑1.  Given that I think the business rate increase is $5.00 and yet it is deductible, so I would say 50 percent of that is a real cost to the business, and given that the residential increase is $2.00, why would we worry more about business rate shock than residential rate shock?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1224              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  That is the manner in which the presentation was offered.  If you are adding a $5.00‑per‑month charge and then you come back and add a dollar or $2.00 for 9‑1‑1, you are now adding a $6.00 or $7.00 a month charge, which reduced by 50 percent is still $3.00, which is above the $2.00 per consumer.  That is the quick response, I guess.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1225              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  But wouldn't the consumer have the additional $2.00 of, $1.00 or $2.00, the same $1.00 or $2.00 9‑1‑1 charge?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1226              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1227              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  So, it would end up being the same net effect, wouldn't it?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1228              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  Correct.  I guess the only thing that I would say to that, is that that is fine if a business has one line.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1229              Unfortunately in my case, I have somewhat close to 50 and it seems to be quite a ‑‑ it seems a bit of a hit.  What do I expect to enjoy in terms of a return on that $5.00 per line, or $200 a month?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1230              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1231              Thank you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1232              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  I guess, if I could just go back one more question on the SIP fund and the 9‑1‑1.  I think what we were intending on that, is that if those funds were directed to Northwestel, that some of those funds make the necessary changes in the telephone exchange, so that we certainly appreciate that somebody has to answer the phone, answer it intelligently and answer it efficiently.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1233              That can be done and it's not, we would suggest, probably most efficiently done by Northwestel, but we can't get onto that track until we have the necessary changes made in a telephone system.  And that is what we were suggesting, that some of that money might be able to be directed towards.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1234              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  But again, then, my question comes back to why in the North should the SIP pay for it when it is those same changes when in the South it is not being paid for by the national contribution scheme?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1235              I'm asking the same principal question:  Give us a reason for doing it?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1236              MR. CARTER:  I guess I would answer that with a question:  What is the SIP fund being used for then?  You know, I guess what I understand that to be is a fund that is given to this telephone company to ensure that they have a capital program that is meeting their needs and unfortunately in most of the communities we don't see the need.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1237              To me, 9‑1‑1 seems to be one of those needs and I guess that's where we are coming from.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1238              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  The SIP is used to finance improvements for up to what is called the basic service objective, which does not include 9‑1‑1 nor broadband in the south.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1239              MR. CARTER:  Okay.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1240              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  My question then comes down to again:  Is there a principle why we should change our rules for the South in the North?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1241              MR. CARTER:  And my answer from the business community is:  Absolutely not.  If you are not getting that service ‑‑ if that service is not being provided in Southern Canada, then we certainly aren't asking for it up here.  We will find a way to talk with the telephone company and get a service that is provided and somehow is funded to that telephone company without any SIP funding.  We certainly are not asking for anything that is not being provided anywhere else.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1242              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Thank you, Mr. Carter.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1243              My one last question is:  I understood that Inukshuk ‑‑ and I'm not going to go much into Mobility, but that Inukshuk, which is wireless and includes data ‑‑ was going to be available ubiquitously across Canada.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1244              Is it not available in the North?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1245              UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  We are not familiar with that name.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1246              COMMISSIONER CRAM:  Okay.  Thank you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1247              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Williams...?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1248              UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  I would like to hear about it though.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1249              THE CHAIRPERSON:  We will send the message back to ‑‑ Mr. Fleury is well connected with Inukshuk too, so we will ask him to be the messenger.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1250              Mr. Williams...?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1251              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Mr. Stewart, you are very familiar with several of the large international mining concerns that have allowed Canada to become a world leading diamond producer.  What type of communication networks are these large international concerns using at their remote mine sites?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1252              MR. STEWART:  I believe, Ron, just from my experience, one of them are using Northwestel services.  They have quite an advanced system that has been put at one of the projects.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1253              There is another one that is using a firm out of Vancouver and they have all of their communications done out of Vancouver.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1254              The third mine is on another system as well.  So I guess it's kind of split between three companies, Northwestel getting a third of the business.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1255              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Let's use the Vancouver example, that mine would then have a Vancouver dial tone?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1256              MR. STEWART:  That's correct.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1257              COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:  Okay.  Thank you.  That's helpful.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1258              Mr. Stewart, the staff is probably going to be unhappy with this question because there will something procedurally wrong with it, but I really need to ask you the question anyway.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1259              Northwestel has made quite a strong claim to us that the resource development, as it is going now and as it could go in the future, with dramatically ‑‑ or relatively dramatic large increases in investment and upward pressure on labour and materials and logistics factor costs could create a situation in which the Commission would have to come back at Northwestel's request and say, "Okay, we understand that, you know, labour rates have gone up by 75 percent in a year and a half or there are a whole range of scarce materials that are being absorbed by ‑‑ and resources that are being absorbed by this resource development project, or these three resource development projects, and therefore we need to look again at Northwestel's finances.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1260              As a businessman, I am asking you:  Does that sound to you like a plausible and possible phenomenon, that the impact of these major investments could be so serious as to, as it were, throw Northwestel's financial planning out of whack?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1261              I think I am being fair to their arguments here, and I am just interested in your response to it.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1262              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  I guess from our view, we see some unprecedented growth happening in the next couple of years with the Mackenzie Valley pipeline, with impending Mackenzie Valley pipeline oil and gas development.  There are some other mines that will be coming onstream.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1263              And yes, the resources that are required to develop all these projects, whether they be human or physical resources, are going to come in short supply and consequently I would expect the rates are going to go up.  So it is certainly plausible.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1264              I know that with some of our clients, we are going to have to sit down and do the same thing on the rates with them.  So I have no reason to believe that Northwestel won't have to do some type of a revision to their business plan as well.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1265              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1266              I think those are all of the questions.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1267              Could I just take the occasion to thank you very much for your time and to tell you that it is extremely important to have the kind of feedback and the kinds of opinions and views that you provided to us.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1268              We know that telecom regulation is not everybody's cup of tea.  If I may say so, you have stumbled over a particularly unattractive and complex and difficult to understand set of issues.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1269              I don't think you should in any way feel that what you have said to us is compromised by that, because there are some fundamental underlying objectives and some experience that we lack that have governed and informed your input to us.  We appreciate it and we thank you very much for the time that you have taken.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1270              MR. VAN TIGHEM:  We appreciate the opportunity.  I know Mr. Stewart has stumbled over this before because he is the former chair of a regulated utility and I am a retired banker.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1271              We wish you every good fortune as you move forward with the consultation.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1272              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.  Much appreciated.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1273              Madame la Secrétaire.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1274              THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Chair, we have no one in Fort Nelson.  So there are no more participants.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1275              THE CHAIRPERSON:  No one in Fort Nelson.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1276              This is the popular part.  Wait until you see the unpopular part.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1277              The popular part of our proceeding is done.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1278              THE SECRETARY:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1279              THE CHAIRPERSON:  We will take a 15‑minute break.  Actually, it will be a 12‑minute break.  we would like to be back by 10:20, please.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1280              Thank you very much.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1008 / Suspension à 1008

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1025 / Reprise à 1025

LISTNUM 1 \l 1281              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Ladies and gentlemen, I think the first order of business on reconvening is to ask our colleagues at Northwestel whether they wish to make any comments of an informal nature in response to what they have just heard from Yellowknife.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1282              Mr. Flaherty.

REPLY / RÉPLIQUE

LISTNUM 1 \l 1283              MR. FLAHERTY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I would like to spend a couple of minutes responding to those comments.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1284              I really appreciate the positive recognition of both speakers of Northwestel and its employees and the contribution that we make to the North.  We spend a lot of time and effort in ensuring that we are good corporate citizens, so I am pleased to hear that they recognize that.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1285              I am also pleased to hear that they support the need for reducing the CAT to encourage competition.  As you would know, that is a very important part of the proposal we are making, and I think, again, you can see the alignment you are hearing there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1286              Another important piece that I hear alignment is all parties appear to be in support of our service improvement plan as well, and I think that's important.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1287              THE CHAIRPERSON:  They don't all understand the service improvement plan quite the same way.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1288              MR. FLAHERTY:  No, that's correct.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1289              They are sensitive ‑‑ we are sensitive to the need to balance costs paid by northerners.  As both gentlemen indicated, you know, we have to be cautious in terms of rates.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1290              There was a question Commissioner Williams made with respect to tiered rates, and I think the speakers did talk about that and the concerns they may have, particularly in the small communities where there's less money available to consumers.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1291              We don't align with the view that current LD competition is an illusion.  If you look at all the long‑distance minutes in northern Canada today, 32 per cent are offered by competitors, so I don't think that's an illusion in any way, shape or form.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1292              With regard to prepaid cards, there was an implication that Northwestel somehow has surcharges on those cards.  First, I would like to correct that.  Not all prepaid cards have surcharges in the North.  Clearly  the one, the Bell example, did have a surcharge.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1293              But also, to be clear, any surcharges that are on these cards are assessed by southern providers, not by Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1294              I know in as well some of the LD rate plans that Telus has, they apply a surcharge, but that's a decision that Bell or Telus make, it has nothing to do with Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1295              With respect to 9‑1‑1, a very interesting challenge.  We have had a lot of discussion about 9‑1‑1 over the years and, to be perfectly honest, we are just a tad frustrated in this subject.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1296              In terms of Yellowknife proper, we have almost no work to do in terms of making our network available for 9‑1‑1 services.  The Mayor has a steering committee made up of the emergency services.  One of our executive actually sit on that steering committee.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1297              Northwestel brought a consultant from southern Canada actually to help the city determine how best to approach 9‑1‑1.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1298              We are ready to support this implementation and have been for quite some time.  I think the primary job that needs to occur right now is the community, or the steering committee I mentioned, needs to develop a plan, a plan that will determine who will actually support the call centre that we have been speaking of, who will staff it, who will pay for the costs of it and things of that nature.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1299              And that's similar to anything else that's been done anywhere else in Canada, as Commissioner Cram talked about as well.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1300              So we are willing and able in Yellowknife.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1301              In terms of the broader Northwest Territories it's a bit more challenging.  If we are going to need dedicated trunks to every community, the cost of those trunks, given current tariffs, are high, but that doesn't mean the technology is not there to support them, it is.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1302              The last thing I would just comment on very briefly is, Mr. Stewart talked about communications relative to our plans, and that's difficult.  And the reason it's difficult is he's obviously heard about the local service increases, has less detail on long‑distance services, and part of the reason for that is we are in a competitive environment and we can't obviously rush out and share with our competitors all of our proposed pricing plans.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1303              So, that makes our effort a little bit more challenging in that regard.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1304              Those would be my comments, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1305              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Flaherty.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1306              Before we begin the cross‑examination phase, I need to say a few words about the administration of this phase of the proceeding.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1307              Avant de commencer les contre‑interrogatoires, j'aimerais dire quelques mots quant au déroulement de l'audience.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1308              Appearing parties will have the opportunity to make oral opening statements not exceeding 10 minutes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1309              I am told that there is an opening statement that we have on our hands here which may take more than 10 minutes, and I am perfectly prepared to tolerate a certain, you know, minor dérogation, but in principle, the opening statements should not exceed 10 minutes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1310              Parties should proceed in the order set out in the organization and conduct letter.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1311              Before proceeding they should file as an exhibit a written copy of their opening statements with the hearing secretary and serve a written copy on all appearing parties at the hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1312              Following oral opening statements we will proceed to cross‑examination.  Parties' witnesses will appear in the order set out in the organization and conduct letter.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1313              Consistent with our usual practice, traditional examination‑in‑chief by any party will not be permitted, rather a party calling a witness will generally be entitled only to examine its witness briefly regarding the preparation of the evidence, any errors or any routine updates to the evidence and the witness' qualifications.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1314              The order for cross‑examination is also stated in the organization and conduct letter.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1315              Generally, Commission counsel questions and those of the Commissioners will come after the parties have completed their cross‑examination of a particular representative or panel of representatives.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1316              As set out in the organization and conduct letter, parties should provide the hearing Secretary with their best estimates of the time they require for cross‑examination of each witness or panel of witnesses and also advise her as soon as possible of any changes to those estimates.  Parties should also inform the hearing Secretary as soon as possible if they do not intend or no longer intend to cross‑examine a witness or panel.  We are relying on everyone's collaboration to ensure that the hearing is held in an orderly fashion.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1317              The order in which parties conduct their cross‑examination may be changed by agreement between the parties with advance notice to the party being examined and to the hearing Secretary.  Our experience in past proceedings is that there is usually no need to engage in redirect examination, although we recognize there may be situations, exceptional situations, where redirect is necessary and appropriate.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1318              After cross‑examination of all witnesses being completed, we will move onto the final argument, once again as noted in the organization and conduct letter, the Commission intends to have oral final argument at the hearing.  The parties are reminded that if they plan to make oral argument but are not presenting witnesses or participating in cross‑examination they should advise the hearing Secretary accordingly.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1319              Parties will be permitted to supplement their oral argument with written submissions filed and served on all parties by July 24, 2006 or the end of the oral hearing, whichever is later.  Written reply argument may be filed by Northwestel by August 4, 2006.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1320              It may not be the intention of all parties to be in attendance throughout the hearing.  In this regard I wish to stress that all parties are responsible for monitoring the progress and content of the hearing and for attending and having their witnesses available at the correct time.  I note that the hearing is being webcast on the Commission website.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1321              Some of you have asked, because of other responsibilities that you might have, what time lunch is liable to occur and I shall try to keep lunch, in principle, beginning sometime between 12:00 and 12:30 and the Commission beginning again for the afternoon around 2:00.  I can't swear to the fact that that will be absolutely the procedure followed but, in principle, for those of you who have other duties or other things you want to do, I would like to think that that hour and a half period will be available to you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1322              The parties should also be aware of the progress and content of cross‑examination which proceeds their own in order to be ready with their cross‑examination at the appropriate time and to ensure that there is no unnecessary duplication of matters previously dealt with by other parties.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1323              This concludes the initial comments that I wish to make at this time.  I now call on Commission counsel to address some additional procedural matters.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1324              MR. McCALLUM:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1325              As noted earlier today, the public examination room is in Conference Room A next door in the hotel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1326              I would note that soon after exhibits are filed and made part of the record they will be made available on the tables at the back of the room for you to pick‑up.  Our hearing Secretary, Madam Bisson, has the forms which, when completed, will provide a written record of appearance.  If you have not already done so, please ask her for one and fill it out.  The information in the form will allow us to contact you, if necessary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1327              I also remind parties that with respect to all documents filed at the public hearing 20 copies must be provided to the hearing Secretary.  In addition, a copy must be served on all other parties present in the room at the time of the filing.  Anyone wishing to purchase a copy of the transcript may speak with the court reporter who is sitting at the table at the left of the hearing Secretary.  Copies of the transcript will also be available on the Commission's website.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1328              The Commission's briefing book is available in the public examination room.  It has been slightly abridged in order to remove confidential information.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1329              Le cahier d'information du conseil se trouve dans la salle d'examen publique. Il est légèrement abrégé afin d'enlever certains renseignements confidentiels.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1330              On the subject of costs, if there are any interveners who intend to apply for an award of costs, I would suggest that they alert one of the Commission counsel, myself or Ms Bennett, and Northwestel to that fact so that parties are not surprised.  In accordance with telecom public notice CRTC 2002‑5 entitled New Procedure for Telecom costs awards dated 7 November 2002.  Parties are encouraged to identify the specific amount of costs for which they wish to apply and to file with the Commission all information necessary for the Commission to fix the costs.  Applicants and potential respondents should be prepared to address these applications orally at the hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1331              I remind everyone, please, to turn off cell phones, pagers, Blackberries and other text‑messaging devices and leave them off while the hearing is on.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1332              Je vous rappelle de bien vouloir désactiver votre téléphone cellulaire, votre téléavertisseur, votre dispositif Blackberry ou tout autre appareil de messagerie texte pendant la durée de l'audience.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1333              Finally, Mr. Chairman, the Hearing Secretary, Miss Bisson, the staff team leader, Christine Bailey and Commission Counsel, Miss Bennett and myself, will be available throughout the hearing, to assist any parties who have questions regarding practices or procedures that we follow.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1334              It is often possible for Commission Counsel and Counsel for the parties, to resolve procedural matters off‑line, and this may save hearing time.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1335              On the other hand, if parties wish to make representations formally on the record, it would be best to alert the Commission Counsel or the Hearing Secretary of that possibility.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1336              Thank you.  I hope that assists.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1337              Thank you, Mr. Chair.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1338              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Are there some preliminary matters which may, which one may wish to raise?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1339              Please feel free, counsel for Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1340              MR. ROGERS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Phil Rogers, for Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1341              A preliminary matter with regard to scheduling and witnesses, since we are not entering the cross‑examination phase of the proceeding, we had originally scheduled and it shows up in the proceeding order of appearance, a witness on rate of return, an external witness, Cathy McShane.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1342              In consultation with all the parties, including Commission Counsel, it appears that there are no questions, no party intends to put questions to Ms. McShane.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1343              Since she was intending to leave New York city today, and it's obviously a long way to go, if there were no questions, it appears there was no need for her to attend.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1344              And so it would appear at this point, that there is a consensus that there is no need to Cathy to appear as a witness.  And so that would remove one of the Northwestel witness panels and we would be left with our 3 panels, Marketing, Policy and Finance.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1345              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Greave, speak now or forever hold your peace.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1346              Sorry.  Are you designating someone who is going to speak for you?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1347              Counsellor, we have come an equally long distance, let it be said.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1348              MR. RYAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1349              My name is Michael Ryan, and I'm appearing in this proceeding on behalf of Telus Communications Company.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1350              We will be presenting a panel to speak to the evidence that we filed in June of this year and the witness will be presenting, as signalled to the Commission before, is Willy Greave.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1351              THE CHAIRPERSON:  You will not be desirous of cross‑examining the Northwestel's rate of return.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1352              MR. RYAN:  Oh, no, that is quite right, Mr. Chairman.  If that is the question, yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1353              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1354              Let's just be clear that if during the process, in the absence of a sufficient supply of microphones, if someone has an issue to raise, please just stand up and we will invite you to come forward.  All right?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1355              MR. ROGERS:  And I should just add, Mr. Chairman, that there is already the usual practice underway, of close cooperation among all parties to deal with the issues of scheduling, of timing of witnesses, of non‑appearance of witnesses, should that occur.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1356              So I think that that aspect of the proceeding is off to a good start.  And we, of course, intend that that would continue.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1357              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, you have very wisely chosen to foreclose the possibility that the Commission, the panel Chairman, might have to make a ruling of any significance.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

LISTNUM 1 \l 1358              THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's very wise on your part.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1359              Okay.   And any other preliminary matters?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1360              Thank you.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1361              Madam Secretary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1362              THE SECRETARY:  We will now ask Northwestel's Marketing Panel to come forth ‑‑

LISTNUM 1 \l 1363              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Oh, a preliminary statement, Madam Secretary.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1364              THE SECRETARY:  Oh, I'm sorry.  Is there any preliminary statement?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1365              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Flaherty.

OPENING STATEMENT / REMARQUES D'OUVERTURE

LISTNUM 1 \l 1366              MR. FLAHERTY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1367              Mr. Chairman, members and staff of the Commission, my name is Paul Flaherty.  I am President and CEO of Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1368              It is my pleasure to welcome you and all other participants to the North.  It has been 6 years since the Commission last held a major telecommunications hearing in the North.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1369              As you know and as will become more evident through this proceeding, much has changed since year 2000.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1370              For example, very significant progress has been achieved under the framework created by the Commission in Decision 2746.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1371              Under that framework the North now has long distance competition with choice of service provider and substantially lower long distance rates.  Nearly one‑third of all long distance traffic is provided by service providers other than Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1372              Furthermore, as directed by the Commission, Northwestel undertook and completed a major service improvement plan under which some $85 million of uneconomic capital expenditures were made over the last five years.  The plan approved by the Commission included major upgrades to our long, thin route toll connect facilities.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1373              The extent of the SIP investments required were, relatively speaking, extremely large.  These SIP investments required by the Commission amounted to one‑third of the company's total net assets.  To put this figure in perspective, if the same relative size of SIP had been required of Telus, the capital required to be invested by Telus would have been about $3 billion.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1374              We will be discussing the continuing impact of those investments on Northwestel's costs during this hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1375              By any measure the Commission's unique framework for Northwestel devised in 2000 has been very successful.  It has achieved virtually everything the Commission had hoped it would achieve.  The Commission can take credit for having found the right balance.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1376              Nevertheless, while the current framework has been a success, we are here this week to reassess the framework and to adapt to today's reality.  As we are all aware, the telecommunications world is anything but static.  New players and new technologies, especially those that are internet‑based, are challenging our traditional concepts of what telecommunications services are, how they are provided and how they are priced.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1377              These changes are inexorably rolling through telecommunications markets worldwide.  For example, in the year 2000 we did not foresee that a large well‑financed service provider would decide to offer free long distance voice services throughout Canada and the United States, but that is in fact what Skype and its parent eBay are now doing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1378              Trying to compete against a free service is a real challenge for all service providers, whether you are an incumbent or a new entrant.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1379              The Commission is well aware of these important developments and is currently considering them in other proceedings.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1380              In light of these changes since 2000, it is time that we collectively reassessed the regulatory framework for Canada's North.  Once again, in the face of great uncertainty, the Commission is called upon to strike the right balance among competing objectives.  In striking that balance we all have to recognize not only the realities of major changes in the telecom industry throughout Canada, but also certain realities that haven't changed.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1381              To be specific, when we leave this hall today we will see the City of Whitehorse, a wonderful city which I'm proud to call home, but we should not succumb to the all too common view that Whitehorse is typical of Northern communities.  In fact, while it is a relatively high‑cost area, it is not at all representative of most of the North.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1382              Unlike Whitehorse, many of the 96 communities we serve have no year‑round road access and no daily air service.  The vast majority have fewer than 500 lines compared with 18,000 lines in Whitehorse.  In small communities there is little or no business community in the sense understood in Southern Canada.  The few non‑residential lines found in these remote villages would typically serve the local nursing station, the Band office or the youth centre.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1383              To illustrate the type of community that is typical of the area we serve, I would like to draw your attention to the photo of the community of Arctic Bay on the cover of the written text we distributed.  As you can see in this photo, this is a picture of Arctic Bay.  It shows the community around the Arctic Ocean.  That is the ocean that is frozen there in front of the buildings.  You can see our satellite dish that is shown there.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1384              There is a total population of 646 people in Arctic Bay and a total of 262 access lines.  Interestingly enough, we have invested over $9,000 per access line in this community.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1385              There is one constant among most of the 96 communities which we cannot lose sight of.  The small communities are, from a pure economic point of view, not economic to serve.  Telecom services provided to these communities and the networks built to provide them are not economically sustainable on their own.  They cannot exist without some form of external subsidy to maintain them.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1386              But this is not really surprising.  For most northern infrastructure services the question has always been not whether to subsidize the infrastructure, but how to do so and to what extent.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1387              Government policy has been to ensure that northern Canadians have access to reasonably comparable services at reasonable prices.  In the case of telecommunications, however, the pace of technology changes, challenging the sustainability of current services and investments by companies like Northwestel.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1388              IP‑based technologies now allow users the option to consolidate and migrate their significant volumes of traffic onto a new private IP networks, bypassing legacy services entirely.  This is a rapidly evolving reality which carriers everywhere must quickly adapt to.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1389              In Northwestel's case there are very few customers with significant telecommunications traffic.  Among the major users on whose revenues we are so dependent are the interconnected southern carriers who pay settlement revenues for termination or origination of their toll traffic in the North.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1390              In light of the clear risks of losing significant amounts of such traffic and revenue, Northwestel has proposed to move its rates, especially for interconnecting carriers, closer to the rates in the South.  Our rates will still be much higher, but we propose to take steps now in order to narrow the gap, thereby reducing the risk of losing altogether substantial amounts of revenue needed to sustain the remote network.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1391              Our concerns about loss of significant portions of current revenue streams are exacerbated by recent investments by government in parallel IP‑based networks in most of the remote northern communities.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1392              It is ironic and unfortunate that the public funding of a duplicative parallel IP network in already uneconomic regions is primarily sponsored, not of course by the CRTC but by other federal agencies and departments.  Thus the dilemma of setting appropriate going‑in rates is particularly difficult in the case of Northwestel.  We are proceeding from a system in which there is currently an explicit subsidy from the national fund, but there is also a much larger subsidy derived from implicit cross‑subsidies obtained from other rates for Northwestel services.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1393              We are proposing to make those subsidies explicit and visible.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1394              For example, the current CAT rate for termination of toll traffic is 60 times higher than any rate for toll connection service in the South.  Relative rate differences of that magnitude are simply not sustainable in light of low‑cost IP‑based alternatives now available, particularly those alternatives subsidized by the federal government.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1395              There will certainly be some debate in these hearings about whether users of the northern network should contribute more than they do now.  This is a legitimate question.  We have a number of detailed proposals in this regard which we believe strike an appropriate balance.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1396              However, to put the current contribution by northern users in context, I would point out that the average revenue per line in the North is already one and a half times that of the lines in the South.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1397              In closing, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission, we welcome this opportunity to review with you the challenges of developing a new framework for the North.  We believe we share with other parties a common objective:  to strike a balance that achieves Canada's policy of providing all Canadians, including Northerners, with quality services at reasonably comparable rates.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1398              We look forward to fully participating in this hearing.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1399              Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1400              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Flaherty.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1401              THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Chairman, the next participant should be PIAC but they indicated that they would not be making an opening statement.  Unless they wish to do so now, we will proceed with UCG.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1402              THE CHAIRPERSON:  UCG, please come forward, sir.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1403              We have no document, Madam Secretary?  No.

OPENING STATEMENT / REMARQUES D'OUVERTURE

LISTNUM 1 \l 1404              MR. RONDEAU:  Good morning, Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the Panel, staff:  As the UCG President, I would like to welcome all of you folks to Whitehorse.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1405              THE CHAIRPERSON:  And your name is, sir?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1406              MR. RONDEAU:  Sorry.  My name is Roger Rondeau.  I am the President of the group.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1407              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Rondeau.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1408              MR. RONDEAU:  Yes.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1409              THE CHAIRPERSON:  A pleasure.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1410              MR. RONDEAU:  Correct.  A pleasure here too.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1411              The Utilities Consumers Group is a non‑profit organization which we formed in 1993 to help residential and small‑business consumers fight against unnecessary rate hikes in telecommunications, electricity, city utilities, and any other type of utility.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1412              The first thing I would like to mention, Mr. Chair, is the timing of this hearing.  I notice that there were very few comments made by the people here in Yukon.  That puts a lot more stress on our backs.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1413              We were happy to see the Northwest Territories mayor and various other organizations make presentations.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1414              At the last hearing that was held here, some six years ago, there were line‑ups in the halls, ladies and gentlemen, from the public itself, off the street, to make comments to the Commission.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1415              I would strongly suggest that the next time you come to visit us ‑‑ and we do appreciate you coming to hear us firsthand ‑‑ that this be done in the fall or in early spring.  We have many seasonal employment people here, who work long hours.  They make hay while the sun shines, so to speak.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1416              Those who are on holidays are out fishing and hunting right now ‑‑ or fishing and camping, I should say ‑‑ enjoying our summer break.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1417              The second thing I would like to mention is the special stewardship that we hold you to to the ratepayers of the North.  We appreciate very, very much what the Commission has already done for northerners with the implementation of the High Cost Serving Area Support Plan.  This has helped the North significantly.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1418              You are the envoys and the messengers to the powers that be down South to convey what we have to say, so that what is placed in the Telecommunications Act is actually enshrined.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1419              We do not agree with any type of different rates for different parts of the communities, as was suggested.  We think that would be a step backwards.  We have gotten away from that.  I don't think that any ratepayer, group or small community should be disenfranchised or have higher costs than other communities in the North.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1420              We will be making argument and cross‑examining the various Northwestel panels.  We have several very serious issues that we want to bring forward, especially the recommendation or the proposal to raise residential rates, as well as rates for small businesses in Yukon.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1421              We will be arguing that there is an affordability issue for some 45 percent of the people in the Yukon territory.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1422              We also have problems with Northwestel going directly into price regulation, although we understand that this should be better for the consumer.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1423              The North is a special area, and when you have subsidies already in place, and when you have the unlikelihood that we will ever have competition in the local market, it is hard to perceive that price regulation will work here.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1424              We anticipate that this process will persuade the Commission to uphold the provisions established in section 7 of the Telecommunications Act:  that you will direct a fair balance between ratepayer and shareholder interest; that you will remain committed to subsidizing the unique circumstances of the North through the national program that you have implemented; you protect those low‑income vulnerable citizens of the northern society by not imposing higher local rates ‑‑ the residential specifically ‑‑ either that or you provide some type of life‑line service for these people; ensure that northerners have access to the evolving information highway; and, finally, ensure that Canadian society benefits as a whole from this information highway through better education, health ‑‑ which is even more prominent in the northern areas in the small communities in the Yukon; new and enhanced databases which are easily accessible to everyone for job searching, job training, telecommunicating and home‑based businesses.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1425              Videoconferencing, as we seen this morning, is very important for the North.  This can be used for health, education and even programs ‑‑ or even more important programs for our disabled people.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1426              Again, I would like to welcome you and thank you very much for the opportunity to speak.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1427              THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Rondeau.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1428              THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Chair, the next participant will be the Government of the Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1429              Mr. Mike Aumond will represent the Government.

OPENING STATEMENT / REMARQUES D'OUVERTURE

LISTNUM 1 \l 1430              MR. AUMOND:  Good morning, Commissioners, my name is Mike Aumond, I'm the Deputy Minister of the Department of Public Works & Services with the Government of the Northwest Territories.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1431              I would first like to thank you for the opportunity to make this opening statement on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories and for the opportunity to participate in this very important proceeding that, among other things, will result in determining just how Northwestel is to be regulated starting in 2007.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1432              I would also like to thank the Commission for conducting this public hearing in one of Canada's northern territories.  I will add that I hope you consider visiting the territory that I represent, the Northwest Territories, the next time you decide to deal with northern matters on site.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1433              That said, for those of you who may not have had an opportunity to visit the North before, I hope that the experience of this trip adds some dimension to your outlook regarding the vastness and uniqueness of Northwestel's operating area and the challenges the company faces in providing their suite of telecommunications services to their customer base.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1434              Proceeding CRTC 2006‑01 has been initiated in order to consider moving Northwestel's regulatory regime more in line with those in place in the provinces.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1435              The Government of the Northwest Territories supports a move of this nature with one caveat, that the Commission continues to recognize that there is no such thing as a one‑size‑fits‑all regulatory regime.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1436              After you have the opportunity to digest all the evidence, statements and arguments compiled during the course of this proceeding, we urge you to construct and implement a built‑in‑the‑North system, a regulation that will help one‑third of Canada's land mass move towards the 21st century with a system of telecommunications facilities and services that gives our northern residents a fair and equitable arrangement similar to that enjoyed by those in the south.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1437              One of the realities of northern Canada is that its size, climate and sparse population will not attract much in the form of telecommunications competition, particularly in the areas of facilities and infrastructure.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1438              Price cap regulation and competition feed and drive each other.  Price cap regulation with only very limited competition could adversely impact those of us that live in the North unless appropriate and firmly exercised adjunct regulations are set in place.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1439              Some external force needs to be substituted for competition in this regulatory environment.  Too much is at stake.  The availability of a full suite of telecommunications services is taken for granted in the south and the majority of Canadians in the provinces necessarily give it a second thought.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1440              This is most definitely not the case in the North.  Whereas the provinces have lattice works of fibre optic cables interconnecting communities, half the communities in the three territories rely exclusively on expensive satellite transport with all the limitation that entails.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1441              Whereas the vast majority of Canadians simply make a call to their choice of service providers to obtain high speed internet services to the residents, those living in most of the small NWT communities must compete for a limited number of dial modems that are available to them for toll‑free internet access.  Other potential offerings such as cellular systems, 9‑1‑1 emergency services or voice messaging and call display are simply not available in most communities.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1442              Section 7 of the Telecommunications Act, the Canadian Telecommunications Policy, makes it very clear that northern Canada is not to be excluded from opportunities and services made available by this vibrant and growing industry.  Many of the major decisions by the Commission in the past 10 years have recognized the need to develop a unique regulatory approach to northern telecommunications in order to satisfy the requirements of the Act.  Your decisions have provided the three territories a customized regulatory environment with unique elements such as community‑level quality of service reporting, a modified form of term regulation and, most importantly, a unique set of explicit and implicit subsidies funded on a national basis.  For this, we are very appreciative.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1443              So how will a brand new northern telecommunications regulatory framework work?  How do we ensure that the groundwork already put in place by the Commission continues to grow and bear positive results?  How do we ensure that investments made today by Northwestel and significant contributions made by residents of southern Canada in a form of subsidies do not get wasted?

LISTNUM 1 \l 1444              The massive service improvement plan completed in 2005 by Northwestel brought northern communications infrastructure to a certain point in the technology lifecycle.  Now what is going to compel Northwestel to reinvest in equipment and to invest in new emerging technologies?  Unfortunately, it probably will not be competition that acts as the driver.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1445              I worry about how soon it will be before obsolescence sets in and territorial residents once again are left with a level of service far below that which is taken for granted by residents in the south.

LISTNUM 1 \l 1446