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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT/SUJET:
VARIOUS BROADCASTING APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Membertou Trade and Membertou Trade and
Convention Centre Convention Centre
Maillard Street rue Maillard
Sydney, Nova Scotia Sydney (Nouvelle-Écosse)
April 16, 2007 le 16 avril 2007
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
VARIOUS BROADCASTING APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Elizabeth Duncan Chairperson / Présidente
Andree Noel Commissioner / Conseiller
Ron Williams Commissioner / Conseiller
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Donna Shewfelt Secretary / Secrétaire
Shari Fisher Legal Counsel /
Conseillère juridique
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Membertou Trade and Membertou Trade and
Convention Centre Convention Centre
Maillard Street rue Maillard
Sydney, Nova Scotia Sydney (Nouvelle-Écosse)
April 16, 2007 le 16 avril 2007
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Barry Maxwell Martin 6 / 26
Newcap Inc. 81 / 578
Andrew Newman 145 / 874
HFX Broadcasting Inc. 228 / 1519
PHASE II
(No interventions)
PHASE III
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Frank Bruleigh 299 / 1967
Mayor John Morgan 304 / 1989
ABBACO Clothing 310 / 2025
Maritime Broadcasting Ltd. 315 / 2050
PHASE IV
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:
HFX Broadcasting Inc. 352 / 2301
Andrew Newman 360 / 2347
Newcap Inc. 365 / 2373
Barry Maxwell Martin 373 / 2409
Sydney, Nova Scotia
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Monday, April 16, 2007
at 0930 / L'audience débute le lundi 16 avril
2007 à 0930
LISTNUM 1 \l 11 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this public hearing. My name is Elizabeth Duncan, and I'm the CRTC Regional Commissioner for the Atlantic. I will be presiding over the hearing. Joining me on a panel are my colleagues, Andre Noel, Regional Commissioner for Quebec, and Ronald Williams, Regional Commissioner for Alberta and the Northwest Territories.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12 The Commission team assisting us includes Hearing Manager, Lynn Cape, who is also Manager of Radio Applications and Policy, Sherry Fisher, Legal Counsel, Donna Shewfelt, Hearing Secretary and Manager of our Atlantic Regional Office.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13 Please speak with Mrs. Shewfelt if you have any questions with regard to hearing procedures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14 The panel will begin by considering four proposals to operate an English language FM commercial radio station in the Sydney, Nova Scotia market. We will then examine two applications presented by Newcap to convert radio station CHVO Carbonear, Newfoundland from an AM to an FM, and to operate a new English‑language FM station in Kentville, Nova Scotia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15 We will study the proposals in light of the cultural, economic and social objectives defined in the Broadcasting Act, and the regulations growing from it. The panel will base its decisions on several criteria, including the state of competition and the diversity of editorial voices in the market, as well as the quality of the applications. It will also look at the ability of the market to support new radio stations, the financial resources of each applicant, and proposed initiatives for Canadian Content Development.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16 With respect to the radio applications for Sydney, we will examine the proposals in the order of items one, two, four and five, presented in the Broadcasting Notice of Public Hearing, CRTC 2007‑2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17 We will then review the application by Newcap to convert radio station CHVO Carbonear from the AM to the FM band. The proposed FM station would continue to offer CHVO's current country music format, and would operate on the 103.9 megahertz frequency. The applicant is seeking permission to simulcast the new station's programming on CHVO for a period of six months from the date it begins operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 18 Finally, we will examine Newcap's application for a license to operate an English language FM commercial radio station in Kentville to serve the Annapolis Valley. The new station would operate on the frequency 89.3 megahertz. The applicant is proposing a classic hits music format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 19 With regards to the application by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, the consideration of the application presented by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, which is item three in the Notice of Public Hearing, has been moved to the non‑appearing phase of this public hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 110 I will now invite the hearing Secretary, Mrs. Shewfelt, to explain the procedures we will be following. Mrs. Shewfelt?
LISTNUM 1 \l 111 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 112 Before beginning, I would like to go over a few housekeeping matters to ensure the proper conduct of the hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 113 When you are in the hearing room, we would ask that you please turn off your cellphones, beepers, Blackberrys and other text messaging devices. They can be a distraction for participants and Commissioners, and they can interfere with the internal communication system used by our translators.
LISTNUM 1 \l 114 We would appreciate your co‑operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 115 We expect the hearing to take approximately two days. Today we expect to finish around 6:00 or 6:30, and Tuesday we will begin at 9:00 a.m. and finish by early afternoon.
LISTNUM 1 \l 116 Today we will take an hour for lunch, and a break in the morning, and in the afternoon, and we will let you know of any schedule changes that may occur.
LISTNUM 1 \l 117 The Great Hall will serve as the examination room, where you can examine the public files of the applications being considered at this hearing. The telephone number of the examination room is 902‑562‑1389.
LISTNUM 1 \l 118 There is a verbatim transcript of this hearing being taken by the court reporter sitting across from me. If you have any questions on how to obtain all, or part of this transcript, please approach the court reporter during a break. Please note that the full transcript will be made available on the Commission's website shortly after the conclusion of this hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 119 Simultaneous translation is available during the hearing. You may obtain a translation receiver through the technician at the back of the room. The English interpretation is on Channel 5, and the French is on Channel 6, and the floor channel is on Channel 4.
LISTNUM 1 \l 120 For the record, we wish to inform you that the applicants, Barry Maxwell Martin, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, and Halifax Broadcasting, a corporation, have filed additional information relating to their Canadian Content Development commitments on which they will be questioned at this Hearing, pursuant to the Commission's letter dated March 6, 2007. These documents can be viewed on their respective application files in the examination room.
LISTNUM 1 \l 121 We will now proceed with the presentations in the order of appearance set out in the agenda. Each party will be granted 20 minutes to make its presentation. Questions from the Commission will follow each presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 122 Phase I are the applicants' presentations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 123 And now, Madame Chairman, we will proceed with item one on the agenda, which is the application by Barry Maxwell Martin, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, for a license to operate an English language commercial FM radio programming undertaking in Sydney.
LISTNUM 1 \l 124 The new station would operate on frequency 103.5 megahertz, Channel 278B, with an effective radiated power of 26,500 watts, non‑directional antenna, antenna height of 169.6 meters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 125 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Jay Bedford who will introduce his colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 126 MR. BEDFORD: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 127 First of all, welcome to Cape Breton Island. National Geographic Traveller magazine indicates that this is the number two travel destination in the world, and Conde Nast Travel magazine this is the most scenic island in the world. We're proud of your island. We're glad you're here. We hope that you come back during the summer season, when it's a little bit warmer, and you enjoy your, an opportunity to travel around the island.
LISTNUM 1 \l 128 And also welcome to the Membertou Trade and Convention Center. This facility has been opened for about three years now. It's an incredible facility, and of course, quite a compliment to the people of the Membertou community. As a matter of fact, I was very proud to be the MC of the very first function that was held in this facility.
LISTNUM 1 \l 129 Good morning, Madame Chair, Members of the Commission, Staff of the Commission, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Jay Bedford. I am one of three principals of the FM radio station proposed by the applicant, Barry Maxwell Martin, on behalf of a company to be incorporated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 130 I am pleased to have this opportunity to review with you the highlights of our application, but before I address our application, I'd like to take a moment to introduce the three principals involved in this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 131 Barry Martin will serve as President, and will be in charge of all financial operations. He has a tremendous background in the financial community. He's a former bank manager, he's a certified internal auditor, and he is the President and Owner of the Meridian Hotel in Sydney, as well as other holdings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 132 Barry Martin is the gentleman seated to my immediate right, and to your left.
LISTNUM 1 \l 133 Alex Morrison is on my far left, your far right. Alex been, has been involved in the broadcast business for over 20 years. He worked at C99 FM here in Membertou, along with CHER radio in Sydney. He worked at CJCB, and CKPE in Sydney, and also worked at Y95 FM in Hamilton Ontario. He has probably MC'd more concerts on this island than just about anyone else. He is a very sports‑oriented individual. He was the voice of the Canadian Little League Championships, he's a baseball umpire, a hockey coach, and a referee.
LISTNUM 1 \l 134 My name is Jay Bedford. My background is extremely varied. I have spent a lot of time in the media ‑‑ over 35 years, 15 stations from Alberta to Newfoundland. I've been an assistant general manager, a program director. I've been on air, I've been involved in promotions, and also been sales manager of five radio stations. I also owned my own newspaper at one point in time, and I was the only Canadian writer that ever wrote freelance for Country Weekly, the number one selling country music magazine in the world. I've also been involved in business training and other things, as you can see on the screen and on the sheets of paper in front of you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 135 My remarks this morning will highlight the major strengths of our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 136 The first is the overwhelming desire in this community for a locally‑owned station such as ours, as evidenced by the responses to our market survey, and by the letters of support, and affirmative interventions on behalf of our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 137 The second is the financial responsibility of the station as confirmed by conservative financial projections for the first seven years of operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 138 The third is our station's programming mix, with its focus on the special needs and interests of the local radio audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 139 Let me begin by identifying the benefits of local ownership that our station will bring to this community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 140 Point number one: Like many of our prospective listeners, we have long been aware of the need for a fresh, independent local voice for our community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 141 Point two: Ours will be the only truly independent commercial station. The other applications are for stations that would be operated by non‑resident owners, and off‑island owners, or merely one of a group of stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 142 We will provide the highest possible level of local news, weather and information about athletic, musical and other community events.
LISTNUM 1 \l 143 Because our station is locally owned, it would be an integral part of our community. We know the local listening audience. We live here. We know local musicians personally. We meet them, and talk with them regularly, and we actively support them. We know the local advertisers. We have worked with them for many years, and we are familiar with their special interests and preferences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 144 In addition, we, ourselves, are members of the local business community. We sit on local boards, we chair local functions, we host local concerts, and we coach local sports teams.
LISTNUM 1 \l 145 We are personally committed to our community because our friends and family live here, and because we know the significant economic and cultural impact that our station will have. For us, this radio station is about much more than just the bottom line.
LISTNUM 1 \l 146 Our application has overwhelming local support from local individuals, from businesses and not‑for‑profit organizations, as demonstrated by their letters of support in the original application, and the positive interventions that were filed over the last month and a half.
LISTNUM 1 \l 147 From the Municipal Council of the CBRM, the Cape Breton Regional Municipality, as demonstrated by their unanimous resolution of support, and the appearance of Mayor Morgan at these hearings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 148 The market survey submitted with our application reveals widespread and outspoken dissatisfaction with the perceived negative effects that consolidation has had on local radio ‑‑ the high repetition of music, the lack of local news and community information, especially in the evenings and on weekends, and the lack of live announcers, accessible staff and community engagement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 149 More than three‑quarters of the market survey respondents reported wanting a greater choice of local stations, and when asked about the importance of different aspects of their ideal radio station, 89 percent reported that community information was either important, or very important to them; 86 percent said local news; 84 percent said a locally‑owned station; 83 percent said having live announcers; and 79 percent said interviews with local guests.
LISTNUM 1 \l 150 Turning to the financial side of our application, our revenue and expense estimates are based upon our own experience. The soundness of these estimates have been confirmed with radio advertising reps in our community, and other similar communities. These projections are realistic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 151 One of us, the majority investor, Mr. Martin, is a certified internal auditor, a former bank manager, and a successful local businessman. Two of us have more than 50 years combined experience in a local commercial radio, involving station management, advertising, sales, programming and promotion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 152 We understand the other applicants are projecting substantially higher revenues than we have, however, for the first seven years of operation, we have chosen conservative estimates, number one, to be prudent, and number two, to avoid overstating the station's potential. But on the other hand, based upon our knowledge of advertising clients in this community, we anticipate but do not assume the station's revenues could be higher than the projections shown.
LISTNUM 1 \l 153 This slide shows our projections of PBIT, profit before interest and tax, as a percentage of total revenue. We expect our PBIT percentage to rise slightly, and then remain relatively constant at about 20 to 22 percent as we reinvest in our staff, add to our staff, and expand our service to the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 154 Referring to net return on investment, we expect the net return on investment to increase steadily from 13 percent, in the first year of operation, to 36 percent in the seventh year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 155 Our station will not have an undue financial impact on the existing three commercial stations in the CBRM market. The retail stations to station ratio for the CBRM market is greater than for other Atlantic Canadian markets, except Halifax and St. John's, all of which have four or more stations. For example, the ratio for the CBRM market is substantially greater than the ratio for the Charlottetown market, which has four commercial radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 156 With the addition of the station that we are proposing, the retail sales to station ratio for the CBRM market, and that's indicated by CBRM, plus one, will be comparable with the ratio in the Fredericton and Moncton markets, which has five and six commercial stations, respectively; somewhat greater than the ratio for the Saint John market, which is supporting five commercial stations; and still significantly greater than the ratio for the Charlottetown market, which, with its four commercial radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 157 For seven years, the commercial radio market in the CBRM has been a monopoly. The introduction of competition will improve the quality of radio service to our community in both programming, and advertising rates for local businesses.
LISTNUM 1 \l 158 Our financial projections assume that our station would achieve a 20 percent share of the local radio advertising market. This slide shows that the CBRM market can easily support an additional commercial station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 159 The Financial Post's 2007 projection of retail sales growth in the CBRM market shows that the corresponding ratio of retail sales per station will grow about 4.7 percent over the next five years. This growth in the retail sales to station ratio for the CBRM is shown for three stations. That's the existing situation. CBRM, that's the blue curve. And for four stations, that's CBRM, plus one new station, that's the turquoise curve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 160 Even if the presently projected growth rate in the CBRM market were not to increase, the ratio in the Charlottetown market ‑‑ that's the red curve ‑‑ would take almost eight years to catch up to the ratio for four stations in the CBRM market, at the Charlottetown market's current projected growth rate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 161 But the growth rate of retail sales in the CBRM market is almost certain to increase. Major retailers such as Home Depot, Canadian Tire and WalMart have been demonstrating their confidence in the local economy with very large investments in new facility. Most building supply centers, supermarkets and automobile dealerships are investing in large, new facilities, and The Mayflower Mall, the largest shopping center on the island, will complete, this year, its largest expansion project since its original construction, in order to accommodate new national retailers like Home Sense, Winners, Future Shop, and Sport Check.
LISTNUM 1 \l 162 In addition, a new high‑tech sector is replacing the CBRM's old resource‑based industries. A $340,000,000 real estate development by German investors is already under construction near Louisbourg. The $400,000,000 Tar Ponds cleanup is scheduled to start this spring. Two studies are under way for massive development of the Port of Sydney, and XSTRATA is close to bringing the Donkin coal mine into production.
LISTNUM 1 \l 163 These large‑scale initiatives will have an immediate and direct positive impact on the CBRM economy, as well as a long‑term, indirect impact through the development of new infrastructure, and new economic activities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 164 In a competitive environment, the critical success factors for any station will be, one, understanding the local audience and the local advertising market, and two, the quality of local programming. We have listed below other factors that will ensure our stations financial success ‑‑ our advertising sales experience; advertising rates affordable to small, local business; station profits will remain in the community, and be reinvested in expanded services; and the principals' personal commitment, Barry, myself and Alex, to the station's success and the local community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 165 Our radio station will appeal to listeners who bring, who long for the traditional days of radio, with well‑known local announcers, community involvement interactivity and enthusiasm. Our station will feature live announcers for 113 hours of the 126 hour broadcast week. Our goal is to return radio to the days of involvement, enthusiasm and fun, and in return, to attract a loyal audience who will make our station a part of their daily life.
LISTNUM 1 \l 166 Our commitment to the people of the CBRM includes local news coverage, with a news hotline 24 hours a day, 24‑hour accessibility for all emergencies, daily contact with local police, fire and transportation departments, local weather and sports seven days a week, the promotion and coverage of community events, air time for volunteer organizations, including interviews, public service announcements, and informal announcer mentions as we often refer to as "jock talk". Though its ongoing promotion of local events, our station will be an essential part of the community fabric.
LISTNUM 1 \l 167 Our music will feature a mix of 80 percent classic rock, and 20 percent current and recent rock, providing familiar music to the older listeners, and a fresh and diverse collection of recent rock, mixed with emerging Canadian artists. The results of our market survey suggests that 39.7 percent of potential listeners would be likely, or very likely to listen to a new FM station broadcasting this music mix.
LISTNUM 1 \l 168 We were rather pleased to see that other survey results from other applicants indicate that 76.5 percent of the 18 to 24‑year olds in the CBRM market are likely, or very likely to listen to a station that plays classic rock, and 90.6 percent of the 18 to 24‑year olds are likely, or very likely to listen to current rock. Even though this is not our target audience, we feel rather excited that we will be able to attract a younger audience, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 169 The percentage of musical selections featuring emerging Canadian artists will be 11 percent. Every time we feature an emerging Canadian artist, we will billboard the selection with a promotional description of the artist and the song, including some biographical information, website location, and where the selection can be purchased, and/or downloaded.
LISTNUM 1 \l 170 We fully support FACTOR, and will allocate all of our financial contributions to FACTOR. We will consistently meet and/or exceed our Canadian content levels. We will promote local music events with announcer mentions, and interview features, and our no‑cost promotion will guarantee that Cape Breton artists will receive high‑profile advertising of any and all new recordings, regardless of their genre. Once again, that's a no‑cost promotion package.
LISTNUM 1 \l 171 Our station will broadcast more news, weather and sports than any of the other applicants. We will broadcast the highest amount of news of any of the applicants. We are the only applicant broadcasting regular news updates between 9:00 a.m. and 12:00 noon, and 1:00 and 4:00 in the afternoon. We are the only applicant broadcasting hourly news on Saturdays and Sundays, and on Sundays from 5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., we will broadcast a news hour. It will feature a review of the week's top local news stories, along with good news stories from the business community, and interviews with local newsmakers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 172 In addition, we will be broadcasting over three and a half hours of community and local event information through interviews, announcer talk, and pre‑recorded public service announcements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 173 The crucial distinction between our application and other applications is that we actually do live in the CBRM, and we have the support of the community. We also have the financial means, the understanding of the local market, experience in the broadcast business, and personal engagement with our community, to ensure that our station thrives, and that it reflects the new spirit of optimism that is now emerging in the CBRM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 174 In conclusion, our station would be locally owned, locally managed, and locally programmed. We will take radio to the community, and bring the community back to radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 175 Thank you very much. (Applause) Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 176 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Bedford.
LISTNUM 1 \l 177 I'd like to begin first with some questions with respect to your programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 178 MR. BEDFORD: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 179 THE CHAIRPERSON: In your response February the 1st, you indicated that your station will broadcast 13 hours and two minutes of spoken‑word programming, and I'll just go through the breakdown that I have here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 180 The newscasts were going to be four hours and 50 minutes, a sports cast three hours and seven minutes, weather, two hours, community announcements, PSA's and current event promotion, two hours and five minutes, and the one‑hour programming, program on Sunday, which you just mentioned, for a total of 13 hours and two minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 181 And first of all, with respect to announcer talk, you indicate there will be an additional coverage of community events through jock mentions, in‑studio interviews, phone interviews, plus occasion remote coverage. How much time should be added to your spoken‑word commitment for this coverage, and for announcer talk, in general, if it hasn't been included in those totals?
LISTNUM 1 \l 182 MR. BEDFORD: If you would look at the slide that's on the screen in front of you, we have broken it down in a pie‑like format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 183 Public service announcements, either pre‑recorded, or read live, or featuring members of the community would account for 125 minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 184 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 185 MR. BEDFORD: Local event promotion would account for about 94 minutes, and that would be a combination of interviews, announcer talk, and so forth. The rest is on that chart, as well. Sports, 187 minutes, weather, 129.5 minutes, the 60‑minute news review program, and the news content, which is 290 minutes, and that's news conten‑, pure news content. That is not a newscast that includes news, weather and sports. That's the actual news content, itself.
LISTNUM 1 \l 186 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 187 MR. BEDFORD: We broke them down individually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 188 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, so that's slightly different than what we have, and that does take, then, into account the announcer talks?
LISTNUM 1 \l 189 MR. BEDFORD: Yes, it does.
LISTNUM 1 \l 190 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you very much. I just make a note here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 191 In regards to the healthy lifestyle segments, which you indicate will include messages and content from environmental groups, nutritionists, the anti‑smoking lobby, the Regional Health Authority, and non‑profit community groups, you indicate these segments will be aired throughout, through announcer input, and pre‑recorded announcements. What is the minimum amount of time per week allotted to your healthy lifestyle segments?
LISTNUM 1 \l 192 MR. BEDFORD: That would be included in our, those two segments that I referred to ‑‑ the 94 minutes, and the 125 minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 193 There is a fair amount of concern in this community over numerous health issues, so we decided we would include that in our news program, and also promote healthy lifestyle, healthy living, nutritional things. And as a result, we will encourage our radio announcers to do some research into that, so that we can include that in our, on our, in our on‑air patter, if I can use that expression.
LISTNUM 1 \l 194 THE CHAIRPERSON: What was it again? It would be included in the 94‑minute segment, and the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 195 MR. BEDFORD: That would be part of our community involvement commitment, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 196 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I thought you mentioned ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 197 MR. BEDFORD: It would, it ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 198 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ two segments for ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 199 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ would be part of the mix.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1100 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1101 MR. BEDFORD: That would be part of the PSA's, as well, obviously.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1102 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay. That was fine. Yes, thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1103 MR. BEDFORD: I'm sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1104 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's alright. That's alright. Thanks. So as far as the duration of each segment vary, I suppose, depending? Am I not ‑‑ you can't give me ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1105 MR. BEDFORD: It'll obviously vary in terms of the content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1106 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1107 MR. BEDFORD: Exactly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1108 THE CHAIRPERSON: Alright. And when will they be presented? Daytime, evenings, weekends, week nights?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1109 MR. BEDFORD: We ‑‑ the ‑‑ since we are proposing to have live announcers on the air for 113 hours of the broadcast week, that will be included as part of their on‑air prep for each of those announced shifts, and then in addition to that, local organizations will be allowed to use the public service time to help promote healthy lifestyles, and healthy living.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1110 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Is the public service time assigned specific slots, or again, that'd be more flexible?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1111 MR. BEDFORD: We're going to be more flexible with that, if it's allowed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1112 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. In regards to news, how much of the four hours and 50 minutes, or 290 minutes of newscasts ‑‑ make sure I have the same numbers now ‑‑ will provide ‑‑ I'm sorry ‑‑ will be devoted to local news stories?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1113 MR. BEDFORD: We will endeavour to provide as much local news as at all possible. Obviously a lot of that's based on exactly how busy the news day itself is. Our newscasts will be led with local news at all times, and our news staff will be ‑‑ we will obviously, in consultation with them, promote the fact that we want as much local news as at all possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1114 I ‑‑ with today's world, with the CNNs, and the News Worlds, and the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1115 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1116 MR. BEDFORD: The national and the international news has ‑‑ there's so many avenues available for the listener, and the viewer to get that kind of information, so we want to be as local as at all possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1117 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you wouldn't care to put even a minimum amount of time on it, because, again, you want to be flexible, or could you put a minimum?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1118 MR. MORRISON: What she's saying is what percentage of the 290 minutes would be, would ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1119 MR. BEDFORD: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1120 MR. MARTIN: No, you would ‑‑ it's ‑‑ it would all depend on, again, on the flow of the news. I mean, you can't judge by how much local news is going to be available. We can commit to two minutes, I would suppose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1121 MR. BEDFORD: I think that ‑‑ yeah. Again, I've worked in newsrooms before, and I know what a news day is like, and I know there are days that you are bombarded with local stories.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1122 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1123 MR. BEDFORD: There are days that there aren't that many stories. You're doing as much research as at all possible, you're trying to develop and cultivate as many stories as possible, you're possibly take, picking up an old story to find out if there's a new twist to it, and so forth, and you're calling out, making a lot of outgoing calls to base your story on to make sure the story is balanced and objective. I would say that if ‑‑ I would say that it ‑‑ out of every newscast, at least 50 percent of it's going to be local, if not more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1124 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1125 MR. BEDFORD: Is that the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1126 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's fine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1127 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ answer you were looking for?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1128 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yeah, that's fine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1129 In your supplementary brief, you indicate you will provide 24, a 24‑hour day news hotline, and 24‑hour accessibility for all Emergency Measure organizations, which I think you touch on here, too, today. In your brief, you refer to live announce shifts, 18 hours a day, Monday through Friday, 14 hours on Saturday, and a minimum of ten hours on Sunday. Will your news hotline be manned 24 hours a day?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1130 MR. BEDFORD: Yes, it will be. While there are live announcers in the building, and people in the newsroom, obviously those calls will be directed at that parti‑, at, to those phones. During the all‑night span of time, when we don't have ‑‑ or during the evenings on Sunday, when we don't necessarily have a live announcer on the air, those phone calls will be forwarded to The Meridian Hotel, and they will answered by a live voice, and information will be taken, and proper people will be contacted.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1131 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that would be the same with the Emergency Measures organizations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1132 MR. BEDFORD: No. With the Emergency Measures, what we are proposing is we will have a series of cellphones, and each of our staff members will be allotted different weeks of the month, in which case that they will be on call 24 hours a day. It could be our news editor, it could be Alex Morrison, it could be myself, it could be Mr. Martin, but we will have a cellphone. All of the Emergency Measures organizations will have that phone number available to them at all times.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1133 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now if you wanted to input into your programming, when you got an emergency announcement, how would you do that? Remotely, or would somebody have to go into the station, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1134 MR. BEDFORD: We can use both methods. Primarily, with as much live content as we will have, it should not be a problem, however if something is required, we will be there as quickly as possible to make sure that it's, that it happens.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1135 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So sometimes, of course, weather might prevent that, but you say you can do it remotely?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1136 MR. BEDFORD: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1137 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. With respect to live versus automated programming, in your response February 1st, you indicated a minimum of 123 of the 126 broadcast hours will originate from your local studios and/or local remote broadcast locations. The breakdown on page four of your response adds to a total of 113 hours, and I just turned to that myself.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1138 MR. BEDFORD: No, you're right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1139 THE CHAIRPERSON: I just thought perhaps it was a typo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1140 MR. BEDFORD: Yes, it was.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1141 THE CHAIRPERSON: Was it? Okay. Thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1142 MR. BEDFORD: It was.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1143 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah. Okay. So that answers that. So the 113 is the correct number?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1144 MR. BEDFORD: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1145 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you ‑‑ okay, so three hours will be reserved for the possible purchase ‑‑ no, I guess ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1146 MR. BEDFORD: The possible purchase and/or barter.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1147 THE CHAIRPERSON: How many hours is that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1148 MR. BEDFORD: Three hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1149 THE CHAIRPERSON: Three hours. Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1150 MR. BEDFORD: And we're not intending to do that, but we wanted to leave that option available to us, in case a nationally‑produced program becomes available that suits the sound of the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1151 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And does that, is that type of programming fairly frequently come available, or ‑‑ it's possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1152 MR. BEDFORD: We've only reviewed one that we thought was even had the potential of ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1153 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1154 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ being included.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1155 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1156 MR. BEDFORD: We are going to ‑‑ you know, our intent to stay as local as much as possible. We just wanted to leave that window of opportunity in there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1157 THE CHAIRPERSON: I appreciate that. Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1158 MR. BEDFORD: We didn't want you to come back and say, "Where'd that come from?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 1159 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1160 MR. BEDFORD: Right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1161 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah, alright. Thanks. Can you confirm the hours of the live programming will be as set out in your response April 4th, '06? It said Monday to Friday, 6:00 to midnight, Saturday, 7:00 to 9:00, Sundays, 8:00 to 5:00.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1162 MR. BEDFORD: That is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1163 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And in your April 6 response, you indicated 55 hours would be automated, and I'm just wondering what your intention is with respect to automation, and if there will always be somebody in the studio that's able to interject comments?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1164 MR. BEDFORD: The only part of our broadcast week that will be automated is the all‑night show.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1165 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1166 MR. BEDFORD: Saturday evening, from 9:00 until midnight, as far as our current plans are concerned.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1167 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1168 MR. BEDFORD: And Sunday, of course, from six in, from 5:00 in the afternoon, on, we will endeavour to put live people in there as soon as we can afford to do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1169 THE CHAIRPERSON: And so the automation, it's prepared in your studios through ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1170 MR. BEDFORD: It'll be prepared in our ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1171 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ and it's ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1172 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ studio ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1173 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ played at ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1174 MR. BEDFORD: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1175 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ night, automatically. Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1176 MR. BEDFORD: The news program, the two‑hour Atlantic Canadian music show, the two‑hour blues program will all be put into the system, and available for broadcast on Sunday night.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1177 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So the voice tracking, then, what was that? I've just ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1178 MR. BEDFORD: There ‑‑ the only voice tracking that'll occur, in terms of regular music mix, will be the all‑night show, and pri‑, that's primarily just weather forecasts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1179 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you're using voice tracking and automated synonymously?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1180 MR. BEDFORD: Oh, I'm sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1181 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is that what you mean? I ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1182 MR. BEDFORD: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1183 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ just want to make sure I understand.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1184 MR. BEDFORD: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1185 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes? That's correct? Okay.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 1186 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now we're going to deal with the CCD, so it's ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1187 UNIDENTIFIED: With what?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1188 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's a bit repetitive, but we ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1189 MR. BEDFORD: Canadian contact development.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1190 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ want to get it on the record, so in March 2007, the Commission sent you a letter. I'll let you get to your place, if you like.
-‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 1191 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. In March 2007, the Commission sent you a letter advising that it would want to review, at this public hearing, your proposed contributions to Canadian content development to ensure that these are in line with the new contribution regime outlined in the Commercial Radio Policy, 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1192 We note that you have submitted a written reply to our letter, and that a copy of your reply is available on the public examination file for your application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1193 For the purpose of the public record, I will take a few minutes, and go through the questions that we had sent you, and summarize your replies in order to ensure that we have a clear understanding of your CCD commitments.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1194 We had asked you to confirm your understanding that if licensed, your station will have to contribute a basic annual CCD contribution imposed by regulation, based on the station's total annual revenues, and the amounts set out in paragraph 116 of the new radio policy, Public Notice CRTC 2006, 158.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1195 You have stated, in your reply, that you would make basic annual CCD contributions in accordance with the radio regulations. According to my calculations, based on your financial projections, this would represent an annual CCD contribution of $500 in year one to three, years one to three, increasing to $1,000 in years four to seven. Is this correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1196 MR. BEDFORD: This is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1197 THE CHAIRPERSON: We had asked you to confirm your understanding that no less than 60 percent of the station's basic annual CCD contribution must be allocated to either FACTOR or music action, and the remaining amount of any may be directed to any eligible CCD initiatives, at your discretion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1198 I note you have indicated that the full amount of the basic annual CCD contribution will be allocated to FACTOR. Is this correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1199 MR. BEDFORD: This is also correct. Mr. Morrison has MC'd many ‑‑ well, probably more CCD release projects than just about anybody. I'm a former booking agent, and I'm a former manager of an aboriginal rock band. We have seen the value of the FACTOR organization, and as a result, we would like to see all of our contributions go to a FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1200 THE CHAIRPERSON: Excellent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1201 As set out in the new Commercial Radio Policy, the new annual basic CCD contribution will be imposed on all commercial radio licenses by regulation. The Commission will impose a transitionary condition of license reflecting the new basic annual CCD until such time as the regulations come into force. Once the regulation is in place, the COL would expire.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1202 You have indicated that you would adhere to such a condition of license. Is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1203 MR. BEDFORD: We confirm that. We'd be happy to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1204 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1205 As was the case with the previous Canadian talent development policy, an applicant or licensee may choose to exceed the minimum annual basic CCD contribution. As part of the application now before us, you are proposing to contribute additional annual funding to CCD that would be over and above the basic required CCD.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1206 In your reply, you indicated that the over and above contributions would be $1,900 in years one to three, decreasing to $1,400 in years four to seven. Is this correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1207 MR. BEDFORD: That is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1208 THE CHAIRPERSON: We had also asked that you confirm your understanding that under the new policy, not less than 20 percent of this annual over and above CCD contribution must be allocated to FACTOR, or a music action.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1209 In your reply, you confirmed your understanding that no less than 20 percent of the annual over and above CCD would have to be directed to FACTOR, however, you indicated that you wished to contribute 100 percent of the over and above amount to FACTOR. Is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1210 MR. BEDFORD: That is correct. I confirm that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1211 THE CHAIRPERSON: Please confirm that you will adhere to the over and above CCD condi‑, contributions as a condition of license.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1212 MR. BEDFORD: We will adhere to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1213 THE CHAIRPERSON: In light of this, could you confirm you will not pursue your talent search contest, as a CCD initiative?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1214 MR. BEDFORD: We are going to ‑‑ no, we would continue to do that as a ‑‑ yeah ‑‑ as a local initiative, as something that the station wants to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1215 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1216 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ pursue on its own.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1217 THE CHAIRPERSON: Alright. Thank you. Not as a CCD?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1218 MR. BEDFORD: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1219 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Now, with respect to emerging Canadian artists ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1220 MR. BEDFORD: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1221 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ I wanted to review your definition of emerging Canadian artists which you describe in your response February the 1st, '07 as:
"We consider a performer to be an emerging Canadian artist for the 12‑month period from the time they promote their first release to us directly, through a promotion firm and/or through an existing record company. We will consider new material from these artists based on appropriateness to our format [of classic rock and] of current rock and classic rock."
LISTNUM 1 \l 1222 With respect to your promotional material, would it have to include an audio sample, or would it consist of written material, only? The promotional material that comes in to you, would it have to include an audio sample, or would you ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1223 MR. BEDFORD: Would ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1224 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ accept it if it was just written material?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1225 MR. BEDFORD: We'll accept anything, but obviously we're looking for the audio sample.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1226 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And would you consider airing a promotional CD or single that has not been released for purchase by the public?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1227 MR. BEDFORD: Alex?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1228 MR. MORRISON: We've talked about we wanted a full‑length CD, or EP.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1229 MR. BEDFORD: No, this is the actual airing of emerging Canadian artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1230 MR. MORRISON: No, we want that commercially published, only, or do you? I mean, it's totally ‑‑ it's your call.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1231 MR. BEDFORD: For artists that we are familiar with ‑‑ in other words, Cape Breton‑based artists, Atlantic Canadian artists ‑‑ if it was a well‑produced piece of music, and we considered it appropriate for our sound, and they fit within our definition of emerging Canadian artists, they would be, even though it was my, maybe not a commercially available piece of music at that point in time, we would play it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1232 For other artists across the country who we would not be as familiar with, we would have to take that into consideration.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1233 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1234 What type of system would you put in place to accurately cor‑, record and track the date of the, the promotional material is received in order to be able to apply the 12‑month period, including in your, concluded in your proposed definition?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1235 MR. BEDFORD: Well, obviously we would rely on a computer program, and we'd rely on a good manual system, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1236 THE CHAIRPERSON: (Laughing) Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1237 MR. BEDFORD: There's nothing wrong with a good file drawer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1238 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, good. So you're planning to track it. Okay, thank you. That's good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1239 MR. BEDFORD: There is controversy over the definition of emerging Canadian artists, anyway.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1240 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, no, and we're trying, we're still trying to develop it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1241 MR. BEDFORD: And I know the CAB have theirs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1242 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1243 MR. BEDFORD: And we decided to tighten ours up a little bit, because we thought it was a little too wide spaced, a little too ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1244 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's an evolving ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1245 MR. BEDFORD: It is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1246 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ definition, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1247 MR. BEDFORD: It's going to continue to evolve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1248 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, yes, and probably your comments'll influence the outcome, so that's fine. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1249 You're proposing ‑‑ I'm going to talk about your music format, and as I understand it, you're proposing a rock music format, which will consist of 80 percent classic rock, 1963 to 1990, 20 percent new rock, 1991 to date, to current. How will your proposed rock format contribute to musical diversity in the market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1250 MR. BEDFORD: The three existing stations in the market cover off three of the more acceptable formats in Canadian radio. One station's country, one station has a classic hit format. The third station is primarily current, with a, with some late '80s and '90s mixed in, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1251 Those formats tend to be rather diverse, 'cause they're trying to reach people from eight to 80. I think with the addition of another station in the market, we can be a little bit more focused. I think that the ar‑, the people of this area have always loved cla‑, rock music. The older listeners certainly will identify with the classic rock. The younger listener will certainly identify with the more recent rock, as well as the current rock, and the emerging Canadian artists. And I think the mix of that familiar music, the music that they've heard in the past, plus some new material mixed in, will keep the station at, with a fresh sound, and I think that that combination will provide something that this area's not getting, at the moment. I think it will compliment what's already here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1252 THE CHAIRPERSON: And how will your proposal, then, differ from the yet to be launched SHARE FM, which we understand is going to launch in May, and the classic rock mainstream rock station being proposed by Newcap?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1253 MR. BEDFORD: The distinct different between ours and Newcap is obviously the fact that we're going to play more recent rock, and current rock. The difference in terms of what we would be playing versus CHER‑AM, which is flipping to FM, with their classic hits format, there will be some overlap, but that overlap will be primarily in terms of artists, not in terms of the actual songs played.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1254 I anticipated that question, and I did write down a couple of, a couple of examples here. For example, when referring to classic rock, and when referring, for example, to Canadian artists like Trooper or April Wine, CHER would obviously be playing some of that material. So would we. We would go further into the, into their catalogue of music, and play those songs with a little more edge than the current stations are playing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1255 THE CHAIRPERSON: So can you ‑‑ I'm curious, can you give me a percentage that your playlist might be duplicate, dupli‑, a duplicate of CHER's?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1256 MR. BEDFORD: In terms of CHER, and we did air check them recently, because they have changed their music mix dramatically over the past year, maybe in anticipation of these applications. We noticed a shift, and we did another survey of their music about a week and a half ago. We anticipate somewhere between 19 to 21 percent overlap in terms of artists, but not ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1257 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1258 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ necessarily in terms of songs played.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1259 In regard to CKPE FM, the overlap that we see would probably be a little bit less than 19 percent, and it would also be primarily in terms of recent or current artists, where they might pick up on a rock song that ‑‑ by a current, that we would also play.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1260 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what about, then, Newcap's? What percentage overlap do you think you'd have with that application, with their playlist?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1261 MR. BEDFORD: Well, the fact that we're going to play 80 percent classic rock, and they're going to play 100 classic rock, if, the overlap would be a lot more apparent. I would think that having had the opportunity of listening to their stations in Halifax, their stations in Charlottetown, and in Fredericton, I believe ‑‑ one of the things that was indicated in our market survey, one of the things we already knew ‑‑ all that happened was the market survey confirmed it for us, is the local people are tired of the high repetition of music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1262 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1263 MR. BEDFORD: So we an‑, you know, we're proposing to launch a format with a minimum of 25‑‑ or 300‑thou‑, 3,000 songs, 2,500 to 3,000 songs, and continuously refresh that every three months. The people in the area want a variety of music. We're going to provide a variety of music. So, therefore, I think the overlap with the Newcap organization, which tends to play a little tighter playlist, we're not going to be a, have as tight a playlist as they will have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1264 THE CHAIRPERSON: I don't know if you had a chance to look at their application. They ‑‑ I think as they refer to it as classic rock, mainstream rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1265 MR. BEDFORD: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1266 THE CHAIRPERSON: So does that still apply, then? Are you still considering that? You said yours would be 80 percent classic rock, and theirs was 100 percent classic, 100 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1267 MR. BEDFORD: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1268 THE CHAIRPERSON: So would your answer change any, if I, if you take into consideration they've said they will have a classic rock, mainstream rock hybrid?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1269 MR. BEDFORD: That sounds a lot more like what we're proposing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1270 THE CHAIRPERSON: Does it? Okay. Alright. And you did anticipate my next question, because I was wondering about the 2,500 songs in rotation, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1271 MR. BEDFORD: And may I reiterate, a minimum of ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1272 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1273 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ 2,500.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1274 THE CHAIRPERSON: I wrote it down, minimum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1275 MR. BEDFORD: Alright.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1276 THE CHAIRPERSON: (Laughing) I had minimum. I'm just wondering what would you say the rotation in the market is now?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1277 MR. BEDFORD: Rotation on current hits in this market right now is probably running around four hours, four and a half hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1278 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So percentage? Can you give me a percentage? Like if you're going to have a 2,500 songs in rotation ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1279 MR. BEDFORD: We anticipate our, the rotation will be anywhere from four and a half to five and a half days.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1280 THE CHAIRPERSON: So if I'm listening to your radio station ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1281 MR. BEDFORD: The emerging Canadian artists ‑‑ oh, I'm sorry, I interrupted you. I ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1282 THE CHAIRPERSON: No, that's okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1283 MR. BEDFORD: I apologize.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1284 THE CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead. That's alright.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1285 MR. BEDFORD: The emerging Canadian artists would be on a higher rotation than that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1286 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. If ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1287 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ obviously.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1288 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ I'm listening to your radio station, though, are you saying it would be four and a half days before I'd hear that same song again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1289 MR. BEDFORD: Yes, it would, and it would be in a different time slot.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1290 THE CHAIRPERSON: This is a very new concept (laughs).
LISTNUM 1 \l 1291 MR. BEDFORD: We ‑‑ Mr. Morrison was the architect of the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1292 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1293 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ sound that the Membertou radio station had, when we went on air. It was a 50‑watt radio station. I worked with Alex at the station here in Membertou for about 16 months, and it was a very different concept. We had 8,500 songs in rotation, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1294 THE CHAIRPERSON: 8,500?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1295 MR. BEDFORD: There was 8,500 songs in the system at any one point in time. I'd say the rotation was probably in the range of 5,500 of the 8,500. It was interesting to note that we became the talk of the town over that 16‑month span of time, with a little 50‑watt radio station that only reached 55 percent of the market area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1296 THE CHAIRPERSON: You know, it's interesting because it's sort of annoying to listen to the radio at the same time every day, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1297 MR. BEDFORD: The same song.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1298 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ hear the same songs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1299 MR. BEDFORD: You can ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1300 THE CHAIRPERSON: But ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1301 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ brush your teeth by it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1302 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, correct.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1303 THE CHAIRPERSON: So when you say 2,500 songs in rotation, that means you have a library of 2,500 songs that you're currently playing, but further to that, you're saying that it wouldn't repeat for four and a half days?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1304 MR. BEDFORD: We are ‑‑ we have designed a program grid, and we will put eno‑, inject enough music into that system that the repeat on the classic rock, and the recent rock will be four and a half to five and a half days.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1305 THE CHAIRPERSON: And how do you ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1306 MR. BEDFORD: The current rock and the emerging artists will be a little faster rotation than that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1307 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah, okay. Okay, so that probably takes into my ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1308 MR. BEDFORD: And that's of songs, not artists. The rotation of songs, not artists. Obviously you could hear a Rolling Stones' song today, and you could hear a Rolling Stones' song again tomorrow afternoon, but it would be two different songs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1309 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, so ‑‑ yeah, no, I realized you meant that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1310 MR. BEDFORD: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1311 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah. So ‑‑ and that was going to take, answer my next question, because I know that if there's a song that's popular at the moment, you don't want to wait four and a half days to hear it again, so ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1312 MR. BEDFORD: Exactly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1313 THE CHAIRPERSON: So that's the way you've got it? Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1314 MR. BEDFORD: So the current, and the recurrent, the very recent rock would be on a higher rotation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1315 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. That's great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1316 With regards to the blues show ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1317 MR. BEDFORD: Yes?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1318 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ you're proposing a two‑hour weekly show, and just ‑‑ did I understand you say earlier that that's going to be in your pre‑recorded section?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1319 MR. BEDFORD: We hope to do it live.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1320 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1321 MR. BEDFORD: But we want the option to be able to pre‑record it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1322 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And so I was wondering when that show will be presented. That was ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1323 MR. BEDFORD: 8:00 to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1324 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ my first question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1325 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ 10:00 on Sunday night.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1326 THE CHAIRPERSON: 8:00 to 10:00?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1327 MR. BEDFORD: 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. Sunday night, following the Atlantic Canadian show, which will be on from 6:00 to 8:00, following our news hour at 5:00. That's working backwards.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1328 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah, that's good. I think like that sometimes. Why do you feel this blues show will be of interest to the listeners of your proposed rock format?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1329 MR. BEDFORD: I think blues and rock are so closely aligned, so closely ‑‑ they fit so well together. There are no blues programs on current radio in this market. You know, I ‑‑ the CBC blues show is extremely well done, the one that comes in nationally, and I have listened to it many, many a time, and they have given exposure to people, for example, like Matt Minglewood.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1330 Matt Minglewood is ‑‑ we were there when we ‑‑ I was there when the ‑‑ I was the MC when the local musician's union gave him an award back in 1997, and he is commonly referred to as Cape Breton's Rock and Roll Road Warrior. But Matt also is a very wonderful blues singer, and as a matter of fact, he ‑‑ I can quote him from a, an article that was written two days ago in Toronto, Ontario, about the fact he's not getting the air play that he deserves, or that he thinks that he deserves, and then if you go through our application, you'll see there's one heck of a strong letter of support for our application, not only because of the blues show, but because his regular rock music will be part of our classic rock music segments.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1331 THE CHAIRPERSON: Because what rock music? Sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1332 MR. BEDFORD: His older ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1333 THE CHAIRPERSON: His ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1334 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ hits from ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1335 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, yes, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1336 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ the '70s and '80s ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1337 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1338 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ will be part of our music mix, along with other Cape Breton artists, like Sam Moon, and Ian Acker, and The Field Battery, and ‑‑ these are artists that we have played in the past, and we want to play them again. They deserve the air play.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1339 Other examples would be the Glamour Puss Blues Band out of Moncton. They don't get any air play here. We will play them. I ‑‑ excuse me, I will correct myself. I know that Bill MacNeil's sitting in the audience. Coastal Radio, the community station, does play that, 'cause I have worked for them, and I know that for a fact.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1340 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you confirm your un‑, that you understand that the minimum level of Canadian content for music selections from sub‑category 34, which is the jazz and blues category, was increased from ten to 20 percent in the 2006 Commercial Radio Policy?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1341 MR. BEDFORD: We have every intention to have a minimum of 35 percent CanCon in that two‑hour show.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1342 THE CHAIRPERSON: 35?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1343 MR. BEDFORD: 35 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1344 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1345 MR. BEDFORD: A minimum of, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1346 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1347 MR. BEDFORD: The same applies, obviously, our Atlantic Canadian show's going to be 100 percent Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1348 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So, so ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1349 MR. BEDFORD: My math has always been very good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1350 THE CHAIRPERSON: It has? Oh, I see. Okay.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1351 THE CHAIRPERSON: So then I ‑‑ just for the record, you, can you confirm that you will adhere to this higher 20 percent level of Canadian content by condition of license until such time as the regulations are amended?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1352 MR. BEDFORD: Absolutely. No problem at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1353 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1354 I'm just turning to the economic section. You were projecting year one revenues of 470,000, increasing to 788,400 in year seven, and you have projected advertising revenues will go, grow by 20 percent in year two, 15 percent in year three, five percent in years four through seven.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1355 What sources of data did you use to assess the future growth potential of the Sydney, and to arrive at your revenue forecast for year one, and subsequent annual increases in your revenue?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1356 MR. BEDFORD: We came up with a thought process and/or a formula that would allow us to make a projection for year one that we thought was extremely conservative. Obviously, at the time that we did that, we had not seen any of the other applications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1357 We were ‑‑ when we first approached Mr. Martin, Alex and I, we had already written a complete business plan. That business plan was presented to Barry. Barry is a numbers man. Barry is a former bank manager, he's an entrepreneur, he's a business person, he's a, an auditor. He took one look at the business plan, and he was extremely pleased with what he saw. He did not, for a moment, question our projections. He looked at us, and said, "You think the same way I do", and I said, "What do you mean by that, Barry?" He said, "You're very conservative in your approach". I said, "Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1358 Obviously we hope to do more than that, and obviously the other three people that have applied for this, at this hearing, are projecting much higher revenues than we do. I hope that we can achieve higher revenues, but we have ba‑, built the radio station's financial projections on a decent cash flow, enough working capital in there, and a high enough revenue level to make sure that we can operate at a half million dollars a year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1359 I was part of CHER back in 1979, when we were doing almost $800,000 a year, and that's ancient history, so we know the market can substantiate, can sustain our projections.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1360 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I notice in your, some of your submissions that you estimated the ‑‑ you went, you go through your thinking on the formula, and estimate that the market is $3,000,000, and that your share will be at 20 percent I think is how you did it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1361 MR. BEDFORD: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1362 THE CHAIRPERSON: So if ‑‑ and because you don't have access to the market numbers, can I assume if it was $10,000,000, you'd still think your share would be ‑‑ that's a figure out of the air, as you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1363 MR. BEDFORD: Oh, God ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1364 THE CHAIRPERSON: But ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1365 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ that'd be wonderful.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1366 THE CHAIRPERSON: But you'd still expect to get 20 percent ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1367 MR. BEDFORD: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1368 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ of that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1369 MR. BEDFORD: We know the radio revenue in this market's over 3,000,000. We just pegged it at that figure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1370 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1371 MR. BEDFORD: And we know that we didn't have access to it, and we know that you do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1372 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. The projected revenues from the four applicants, as you know, range from a low of 470 to a high of 915,000 in year one, to a low of 649,000 in year three, to a high in year three of 1,208,000. Over the seven‑year period, projected revenues from the other applicants are 38 to 91 percent higher than your projected revenues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1373 You indicate in your supplementary brief, and again here today, that your estimates are conservative. How conservative do you feel your estimates are?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1374 MR. BEDFORD: Whoa (laughs).
LISTNUM 1 \l 1375 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's not a condition of license, so it's your best guess (laughs).
LISTNUM 1 \l 1376 MR. BEDFORD: I, I really ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1377 MR. MARTIN: Well, if we looked at it, we could always build in, you know, 25 percent. I, I think that 25 percent would be a safe percentage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1378 MR. BEDFORD: I think in year one we're going to do at least 25 percent more than that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1379 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Okay. That's ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1380 MR. BEDFORD: And that's Mr. Martin speaking. I think we're going to do 50 percent, personally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1381 THE CHAIRPERSON: So I should put down 25?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1382 MR. BEDFORD: Easy, big guy. Easy, big guy.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1383 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1384 MR. BEDFORD: I noticed in the paper this morning they used the term, "Local and national broadcasters will fight for a spot on the FM radio dial in Sydney at a CRTC hearing today". I rather like the idea I got Big Alex, and Big Barry with me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1385 THE CHAIRPERSON: To look after you. (Laughing) Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1386 The ‑‑ I'm just wondering are ‑‑ I notice there's a considerable difference, as well, among the applicants with respect to capital expenditures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1387 Are you confident your estimated capital expenditures are sufficient, or would you ‑‑ and would ‑‑ also, would you like to offer any additional comments with respect to your estimate of 220,000?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1388 MR. BEDFORD: We did a lot of research on that. We brought a consultant in, an engineering consultant in from Montreal, and an engineering consultant in from the Valley, who have worked on numerous radio applications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1389 We told them that we wanted to make sure that our start‑up costs were reasonable. We wanted to make sure all along that the whole cost of our operation jived with the size of the community, and so forth. And as a result, we ‑‑ again, we have ‑‑ if ‑‑ we have chosen an extremely good transmitter. We have chosen an extremely good antenna system, because we know that's of prime importance. We've been a little bit more moderate in our choice of studio gear, and so forth, but we know that we can do it at that rate, know, and it's been confirmed by our engineers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1390 The total investment that we're looking at, if you include our line of credit, and the hotel's leasehold improvements, borders on $400,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1391 THE CHAIRPERSON: So the hotel's contributing that, in effect, then?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1392 MR. BEDFORD: Oh, yeah. That's all leasehold improvements that the hotel's going to carry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1393 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm just wondering about the li‑, if you buy more moderately priced equipment, which is what I understood you to say, would you be looking at replacing that ‑‑ or maybe the nor‑, in the norm, you'd be replacing it anyway, after year three, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1394 MR. BEDFORD: One of the ‑‑ yeah, one of the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1395 THE CHAIRPERSON: Have you given that any thought?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1396 MR. BEDFORD: One of the points that I made when I was speaking originally was the re‑investment in our staff, and the re‑investment in the station, and re‑investment in the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1397 One of the things that I rather enjoyed was the fact that, at one point in time, when you were erecting AM transmitter sites, it required a lot of land, expensive towers, and so on, and so forth. With FM, of course, we're able to collate, locate on the Global TV tower, and of course we have a letter of agreement with them. And that certainly keeps the costs down, and it certainly makes it a much more affordable venture.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1398 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah. So I didn't hear ‑‑ I know you're going to re‑invest, but did I hear you say re‑invest in capital expenditures, as well?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1399 MR. BEDFORD: With ‑‑ over time, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1400 THE CHAIRPERSON: As needed?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1401 MR. BEDFORD: As needed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1402 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1403 MR. BEDFORD: I don't think that will apply to our antenna and transmitter combination ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1404 THE CHAIRPERSON: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1405 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ which is the most expensive purchase anyway.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1406 THE CHAIRPERSON: The 200 and ‑‑ okay. The 100, the 175,000 transmitting ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1407 MR. BEDFORD: That ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1408 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ is what you're referring to?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1409 MR. BEDFORD: That's ‑‑ yeah, exactly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1410 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1411 MR. BEDFORD: We have the quotes ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1412 THE CHAIRPERSON: So that's ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1413 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ from those companies, and yes, they may have gone up five percent since those quotes ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1414 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1415 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ were issued.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1416 THE CHAIRPERSON: But that's about a ten‑year life, then, is it, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1417 MR. BEDFORD: We want to amortize that over seven years, max.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1418 THE CHAIRPERSON: Seven? Okay. Now I ‑‑ in year one, you're forecasting a positive profit before interest and taxes beca‑, and if ‑‑ I'm wondering if the results aren't as forecasted, because it's probably optimistic. Oftentimes, in a new start‑up business, you're not going to see a profit in the first year, but at any rate, if it ‑‑ that's a general statement, so it doesn't necessarily mean it applies to radio, but if the results are not as forecasted, are you prepared to invest additional funds for as long as it takes for the station to turn a profit, and if necessary, to cover any unforeseen capital expenditures?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1419 MR. MARTIN: Yes. I'm a businessman, and if the station is hemorrhaging, then obviously, you know, I may not be prepared to put in the levels that it would take. If for some unforeseen reason it was a collapse, I will be monitoring the numbers extraordinarily close, but, yeah, I have sufficient resources at my disposal to allow the station any reasonable time, and reasonable losses until it achieves profitability.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1420 You know, in my experience, in most endeavours, you're lucky to see positive profitability after three to five years, and you know, I feel our numbers are so conservative going into this, that I believe we will achieve a small profit the first year. If not, I fully expect that it will be there in years two and three.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1421 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1422 MR. BEDFORD: It was interesting. I asked the, one of the people at, in Gatineau. I said Mr. Martin's more than willing to bring a personal net worth statement with him for the confidential ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1423 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1424 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ perusal of ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1425 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1426 MR. BEDFORD: Of you three individuals, and I was told it was not necessary; that the financial analysis had already been completed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1427 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah. My question isn't directed more to net worth, it's directed to willingness, but I got my answer. (Laughing) That's fine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1428 MR. BEDFORD: Yeah, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1429 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Yeah, thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1430 I notice in your long‑range planning, you indicate you would consider applying for another license, if the local economy would support it, and that's sort of in the context of recognizing that that there's efficiencies in that. And I'm just wondering how many years out you think that might be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1431 MR. BEDFORD: Well, this station, first of all, is a dream. That's a ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1432 THE CHAIRPERSON: Dreams do come true, so if it wa‑, ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1433 MR. BEDFORD: Dreams do come ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1434 THE CHAIRPERSON: If it came true ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1435 MR. BEDFORD: Dreams do come true.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1436 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ what would be your next dream, then?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1437 MR. BEDFORD: And I ‑‑ the fact that we would even anticipate another station, yes. We wanted you to realize that we are, even though we keep talking about being conservative, we're also aggressive. I know that they're at odds with one another, those two terms, but we are conservative, but we're also aggressive, and if at any one point of time the market could sustain another station, we would certainly investigate, and maybe ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1438 THE CHAIRPERSON: So when ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1439 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ pursue that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1440 THE CHAIRPERSON: When you made this statement, you didn't have a particular timeframe in mind. Just if the time was right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1441 MR. MARTIN: I think within ten years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1442 MR. BEDFORD: I would ‑‑ yeah, I was looking at seven years, and Barry says within ten years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1443 MR. MARTIN: Seven to ten years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1444 MR. BEDFORD: Seven to ten years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1445 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. How many new entrants do you think the Sydney market could sustain, at this time?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1446 MR. BEDFORD: Based on the information that we've presented to you, based on our own research ‑‑ this is our consultant, Dr. Paul Patterson, who's sitting with us. I do apologize.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1447 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1448 MR. BEDFORD: I should have introduced him at the beginning, and I didn't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1449 Dr. Patterson is a very well‑respected local individual. He has three PhD's. He's written a book on the economic development of Cape Breton Island.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1450 MR. MARTIN: Answer the question.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1451 MR. BEDFORD: Yes, I got sidetracked there, because I did for‑, ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1452 THE CHAIRPERSON: I was thinking I was relieved you hadn't told me he had three HB, PhD's first, or I'd have been intimidated, so that's a good ‑‑ it came at the end.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1453 MR. BEDFORD: What was your question, again, please?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1454 MR. BEDFORD: Oh, according to the material that we've presented, and also according to our own thought process, and the work that we've done with Dr. Patterson, we believe the market's large enough to sustain one and a half radio sta‑, one and a half more radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1455 THE CHAIRPERSON: So at this ‑‑ if we were to ‑‑ two and a half, then?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1456 MR. BEDFORD: One and a half more ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1457 THE CHAIRPERSON: Including your ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1458 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ new stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1459 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ your application?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1460 MR. BEDFORD: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1461 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1462 MR. BEDFORD: We ‑‑ it's just borderline for two.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1463 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1464 MR. BEDFORD: And there's certainly more than enough in terms of retail sales per station, and population per station to sustain one, and it's very close to two, so I'd like to use the expression one and a half.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1465 MR. MARTIN: Could be more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1466 MR. BEDFORD: And based upon our positive approach towards the new investment coming into the market, like XSTRATA, the German $400, $400,000,000 development in Louisbourg, the Tar Ponds project, the retailers in the area expanding their properties, and building new facilities, if that all comes to be, obviously, it could sustain more than one station. It could be two, or even three. Especially seven to ten years from now, when we start our next one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1467 UNIDENTIFIED: (Laughing) Your guys are getting carried away.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1468 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now just going back and looking at your slide 11, and you talk about the potential new developments, and I'm just sort of ‑‑ it's hard to put a timeframe. The Tar Ponds is actually going to start this spring? That's a definite, now, is it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1469 MR. MARTIN: May, I believe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1470 THE CHAIRPERSON: May?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1471 UNIDENTIFIED: May, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1472 THE CHAIRPERSON: Next month?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1473 MR. MARTIN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1474 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, that's excellent then.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1475 And ‑‑ but some of these other things, like, how long before you'd see jobs from some of these other initiatives?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1476 MR. BEDFORD: Mr. Patter‑, ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1477 DR. PATTERSON: Yes, but let me look at the list so we can ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1478 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, sure, yeah. It's slide 11.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1479 DR. PATTERSON: Already because of the major retailers that are coming into town, there have been not only new jobs, but new ways of bringing jobs in. Many local people who have experience, say, in home building are being hired by Home Depot under special circumstances where they continue to do their work, but they work evenings, or something, so it, it's sort of a graduated thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1480 The Mayflower Mall, as we indicate, will be expanding ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1481 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1482 DR. PATTERSON: ‑‑ and I understand from local economists that ‑‑ or people who know the local economy, including some of the retailers we've talked to, they expect retail sales to be increasing in their areas.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1483 The concern that some people have is whether it's going to be local businesses that expand, or whether these big boxes who come in and take their profits out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1484 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mmm hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1485 DR. PATTERSON: And so there's an issue there about how much of the money is going to be staying the community for re‑investment, but if their intentions are realized, why, it will be staying in investment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1486 The new high‑tech sector is a sort of a hidden but very important sector here, and two or three companies have really started to take off. The glass, Advance Glazings, Dynagen has become a world player when it comes to alternative energy sources. There are new companies with regard to wind energy. We have a small company that's just starting out who I, which has a revolutionary approach to plumbing your house. You order something, and it come‑, it gets sent in a box, and a plumber sticks it in, in two hours, and you're done. It's a very ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1487 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is the plumbing for your ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1488 DR. PATTERSON: ‑‑ modern ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1489 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ whole house? Is it for ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1490 DR. PATTERSON: Pardon me?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1491 THE CHAIRPERSON: For new construction?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1492 DR. PATTERSON: Your whole house ‑‑ heating, potable water, everything. Now you have these ‑‑ what do you call ‑‑ tube‑in‑tube is ‑‑ it's not the traditional copper piping, and it's not the traditional plastic piping, or steel piping. It's this new tube‑in‑tube which is used very widely in Europe. And so they, they've got a group of little, of young engineers and inventors who've come up with this beautiful panel that you put ‑‑ in fact, the funny part is people don't want to put it in the basement. They want to put it in the garage, so they can bring in their neighbours, and show it off, 'cause it, it's brass and chrome and dials. It looks like a Boeing 707. They're bec‑, they are about to take off.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1493 It's hard to know what the Tar Ponds spinoffs will be. Everybody's waiting breathlessly, and the Province and the Feds are basically keeping their cards close to their chest, but it's very clear that there are going to be major improvements in salaries, and people being hired there, and unemployment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1494 This morning at noon, around noon time, they're going to announce the expansion of a call center right down in Sydney River. That's been growing, not as rapidly it was initially, but it's still growing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1495 Finally, the biggy is XSTRATA. Although we've alluded to the closure of the coal mining industry in Cape Breton, there is a major mine which was prepared before that closure. It was called the Donkin Mine. And XSTRATA has been given permission by the Province to mine that, and there have been recent articles pointing out that they've opened it up, that they're getting close to installing the equipment necessary to start producing coal on a very big scale. I mean, they're ‑‑ we're talking about $100,000,000 or so investment right off the bat, and that should be a major source of new income, new jobs in the area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1496 THE CHAIRPERSON: And so what would be the timing, would you expect, of something like that with ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1497 DR. PATTERSON: I'm only ‑‑ I mean, that's up to them. They're not going to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1498 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1499 DR. PATTERSON: ‑‑ release that, but the way the sort of momentum is gathering, I would say people are expecting to be hired within the next two years. They, they'd certainly be hiring people to do some of the pre‑, the electrical and the pre‑development work of the faces, and then, of course, they'll be hiring on a fu‑, several hundred people to do the full production.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1500 THE CHAIRPERSON: And is coal considered environmentally friendly? Is, is not ‑‑ is it going to be a environmental issue, or is it an, a ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1501 DR. PATTERSON: Oh, it, it's a ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1502 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ environmentally friendly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1503 DR. PATTERSON: It's an environmental issue, but there's still an enormous demand for it around the world. Those are ‑‑ we haven't addressed those issues, but for example ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1504 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's sort of out of our purview here, but I was just interested in trying to co‑, understand what that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1505 DR. PATTERSON: Until the closure of the coal and steel industries here, Sydney Harbour was one of the most highly, high‑traffic ports in the world, because we had so much coal going out, and so much ore coming in. The two studies that we've talked about going on, about the development of the port, or city, this is ‑‑ there's been a strategic plan in place since at least 1993, and right now it's gaining some interest by Federal Government, and the Provincial Government.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1506 That has another possibility for developing, and that would be all positive. There's no environmental concerns about that, because it would be basically imported. We wou‑, we hope to become ‑‑ this is the western abutment for a bridge to the rest of the world. Sydney has the shortest ‑‑ if you look on a globe, it has the shortest great circle routes from Sydney to Europe, Africa and South America. Surprisingly South America. So it's very, very positive, and the Chinese, I un‑, I've read, have insisted that Nova Scotia will be the place where they start bringing in their big super Panamax ships from, that come through the Gibraltar Straits. So Sydney is hoping to, and has for a long time, been working on developing both the old Sysco waterfront, where they have two massive ‑‑ I think 720 long, feet long wharves. They have the international pier which can, for, can take in and send out massive amounts of coal, or any other aggregate, and they're also talking about developing the western side, Westmount side of the harbour all the way out to Point Edward with investments by major companies in New Jersey ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1507 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you, Mis‑, ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1508 DR. PATTERSON: ‑‑ in container ports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1509 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Dr. Patterson. That gives us a better understanding of the potential. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1510 Just one last question that I have for you. What impact would the licensing of more than one new entrant today have on your business plans?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1511 MR. BEDFORD: The diversity of formats in the market is certainly going to play a big part in that. We think that we have picked a combination of ‑‑ our format mix is combined in such a way to have broad appeal, but still be very targeted towards that 25 to 55 age bracket that we're shooting for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1512 I think with the addition of if there were two stations, it's just improved quality for the community, and with the improved quality, and with the fact that ‑‑ up until this point in time, there's been on FM station, one commercial ‑‑ excuse me ‑‑ FM radio station. If CBC gets their flip, if one of us get a license ‑‑ hopefully us ‑‑ if even a second station's licensed, all of a sudden the FM band is going to have such a high profile in this community that I do believe that, you know, it'll be a not only benefit to the community, but each of the radio stations, in turn, will enjoy that synergism that's caused by all of these stations being on the air, on the FM band at the same time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1513 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's great. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1514 MR. BEDFORD: And also, the advertising costs for the small advertiser, for the small business operator, there have be‑, there ‑‑ when we were in Membertou, we were selling radio ads for $8 a holler, and it'd be, you'd be amazed the number of small operators. It was the first time they ever had the opportunity of using radio, and they were extremely impressed with the results.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1515 So if you come on with a commercial radio station ‑‑ and yes, the rates are higher than that, obviously ‑‑ they're probably still going to be able to afford it, and the end result will be that they're going to be able to enjoy the immediacy, and the point of purchase type effects of radio advertising.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1516 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you very much. Commissioner Noel has a question ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1517 COMMISSIONER NOEL: Just the one ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1518 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ for you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1519 COMMISSIONER NOEL: ‑‑ short question. If we decide, in our wisdom, to license two new applicants in the Sydney market, and if we decide that you are one of the lucky winners, which other applicant will be less damagable to your business plan?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1520 UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible).
LISTNUM 1 \l 1521 COMMISSIONER NOEL: Choose your partner, he says.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1522 MR. BEDFORD: Oh.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1523 MR. MARTIN: In what sense?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1524 MR. BEDFORD: Are you referring to market share, or do you mean like the economic impact upon us?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1525 COMMISSIONER NOEL: Well, I'm ‑‑ the audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1526 MR. BEDFORD: The audience is a listening audience ‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1527 COMMISSIONER NOEL: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1528 MR. BEDFORD: ‑‑ versus an advertising audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1529 COMMISSIONER NOEL: Listening audience. Who would be your worst adversary?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1530 MR. BEDFORD: The worst adversary?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1531 COMMISSIONER NOEL: Or who would be the ‑‑