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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT / SUJET:
Various broadcasting applications /
Diverses demandes de radiodiffusion
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Conference Centre Centre de conférence
Outaouais Room Salle Outaouais
140 Promenade du Portage 140, Promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec Gatineau (Québec)
May 15, 2008 Le 15 mai 2008
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Various broadcasting applications /
Diverses demandes de radiodiffusion
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Michel Arpin Chairperson / Président
Len Katz Commissioner / Conseiller
Michel Morin Commissioner / Conseiller
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Jade Roy Secretary / Sécretaire
Francine Laurier-Guy Hearing Manager /
Gérante de l'audience
Jean-Sébastien Gagnon Legal Counsel
Conseiller Juridique
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Conference Centre Centre de conférences
Outaouais Room Salle Outaouais
140 Promenade du Portage 140, Promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec Gatineau (Québec)
May 15, 2008 Le 15 mai 2008
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE II
No interventions / Aucune intervention
PHASE III
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Sylvia Kornherr 571 / 3198
Emily Hunter 581 / 3252
Charles and Marilyn Runolfson 589 / 3288
Aboriginal Media Education Fund 597 / 3331
Karen Wood 607 / 3388
Kevin Harrison 609 / 3396
Women's Business Network of Ottawa 612 / 3417
Dan Ackroyd 623 / 3485
Eli El-Chantiry 631 / 3536
NorthernBlues Music 633 / 3552
Native Women's Association of Canada 642 / 3596
Robert Du Broy 651 / 3636
Christian Hit Radio Inc. 658 / 3677
CFRC-FM Radio Queen's University 667 / 3735
The Jewel 680 / 3808
- v -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE IV
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:
RNC Média inc. 686 / 3843
Mark Steven Maheu (SDEC) 690 / 3863
Frank Torres (SDEC) 693 / 3886
Astral Media Radio inc. 699 / 3919
Ottawa Media Inc. 704 / 3952
Christian Hit Radio Inc. 708 / 3986
Corus Radio Company 713 / 4014
Instant Information Services Incorporated 717 / 4034
Fiston Kalambay Mutombo (SDEC) 719 / 4047
Réél-Radio 724 / 4072
Radio de la communauté francophone d'Ottawa 728 / 4097
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
9183-9084 Québec inc. 732 / 4121
PHASE II
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Conseil provincial du secteur des communications 772 / 4390
du Syndicat canadien de la fonction publique
PHASE III
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:
9183-9084 Québec inc. 798 / 4555
Gatineau, Quebec / Gatineau (Québec)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Thursday, May 15, 2008 at 0904 /
L'audience débute le jeudi 15 mai 2008 à 0904
3184 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, please. À l'ordre, s'il vous plaît.
3185 Madame la secrétaire.
3186 LA SECRÉTAIRE : Merci, Monsieur le Président.
3187 For the record, we would like to mention that Frank Torres, in response to the Commission's question, has submitted their survey. A copy is available in the public examination room and it is going to be added to their application.
3188 We have now reached Phase II in which applicants appear in the same order to intervene on competing applications if they wish.
3189 Radio de la communauté francophone d'Ottawa, Réél‑Radio, Fiston Kalambay Mutombo, Instant Information Services Incorporated, Corus Radio Company, Christian Hit Radio Inc., Ottawa Media Inc., Astral Media Radio Inc., Frank Torres, Mark Steven Maheu and RNC Média Inc. have indicated that they will not appear in Phase II.
3190 Will now proceed to Phase III, in which interveners appear in the order set out in the Agenda to present their intervention.
3191 Jean Vaillancourt, Université du Québec en Outaouais, Lee Hayes, Tracey‑Lynn Sheldrick and CBC listed in the Agenda have informed us that they will not be appearing at the hearing.
3192 I would now ask AGE‑UQO de se présenter pour soumettre leur intervention.
3193 LE PRÉSIDENT : L'Association générale des étudiants de l'UQO.
3194 LA SECRÉTAIRE : Oui.
3195 Ils ne sont pas ici.
3196 I will now call Sylvia Kornherr, Charles and Marilyn Runolfson and Emily Hunter to come to the presentation table.
‑‑‑ Pause
3197 THE SECRETARY: Sorry, you can just open your microphone, please.
INTERVENTION
3198 MS KORNHERR: Good morning, Board of Commissioners.
3199 I have an awful lot that I am empowered and impassioned to describe where I am sitting in my feelings on this today, so please bear with me.
3200 I rushed here with the traffic so I didn't have my caffeine fix, so I hope I don't bore you. Either you will fall asleep or I will fall asleep, but I am going to try very hard to be animated.
3201 I'm going to read something to you that I scripted because it is so important that I get everything I want to say in properly and not forget ‑‑
3202 THE SECRETARY: Please introduce yourself first.
3203 MS KORNHERR: Sylvia Kornherr.
3204 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3205 MS KORNHERR: I want to let you know that I feel that this newly proposed second Christian radio station in Ottawa will offer a really mature complement to the existing CHRI Christian music station. We're looking for an opportunity to learn and to grow our Christian faith, as well as provide a vehicle to spiritually arouse others who are just beginning to investigate their spiritual awakening and they're looking for guidance and support and educational tools and materials, teachers, mentors.
3206 As I understand it, this radio station will offer faith teaching programs based in Christian biblical authority. I believe it will be balanced with some very interesting sessions with Hebrew and world religion studies, a variety of thought‑provoking messages.
3207 Currently we have one Christian station airing and you know, it is basically appealing to a different demographic. We have a lot of current music and light teaching, which is abundantly successful, but we are a very different demographic. We are characterized not only by grey hair, but by really different wants, really different needs.
3208 There is a big hole and we would really love for the opportunity to fill that hole.
3209 What we want is really challenging and stimulating teaching, very, very hard to find. It is important to offer this. We want the real meat. We want teachings that engage our minds. We want it for us, we want it for the older generation.
3210 I am a maturing baby boomer. We want it even for ‑‑ there is a fine wonderful group of really young adults who are so keen, there are wise beyond their age. They are wanting this stimulation.
3211 You know, at some point we all cross that road and start asking the hard questions, and we have our one life to live and we want to live it and experience it and express it fully and teaching, spiritual teachings just opens up your mind and your spirit to fully understand who you are.
3212 It helps you in the world in everyday affairs. It helps you become a really viable, productive person in the community.
3213 I just feel that Christian spiritual teaching is so advantageous. It offers insights and solutions and it completely changes people's lives, and it has changed my life dramatically.
3214 I am a scientist at heart. I have a medical background. I am currently in software and I am a historian, and I must say that my life changed when I did the hard study and I found that my spiritual awakening basically impassioned my life.
3215 The contents on the airwaves right now, I mean it is wonderful; it provides so many brands of diverse subject material, lots of music, entertainment, reporting news. It is fantastic. But why not include in that diversity ‑‑ we are melting pot of cultures. Why not include in that diversity a strong opportunity for faith oriented programs and spiritually structured teaching?
3216 Our faith‑based music and our spiritual teaching, it is confined right now to one station in the capital city of Ottawa. You know, logistics do show we are below the normal representation. I don't really care for that data particularly for myself. What I care for is just an opportunity wherever we can grab it for spiritual teaching.
3217 Why the media ‑‑ sorry. Why do I want radio as my media format? It is a huge biggy for me.
3218 I work two jobs. I have a fulltime job and I also have a part‑time job in the evening, of my own choice, for my passions. I run a small hobby farm with my husband. I have a vegetable garden. I am very active as a community representative with council.
3219 I'm a wannabe blues vocalist. I'm an impressionist artist, only because people can't figure out what I painted, but I try really hard to be active and involved, and the only way I can sustain that unbelievable energy really is having a very strong spiritual core.
3220 I understand my calm and my conviction and that comes through teaching. If you don't have that teaching, you don't have a fundamental base to start to grow your knowledge.
3221 The outcome of this type of broadcasting I think, from what I can experience for my own life ‑‑ I can't speak for everyone; I can see those around me. But for myself I have this unbelievable positive fruit.
3222 I wasn't always this way. I was blessed, being very fortunate and very talented and probably very egotistical, and I have dramatically changed over the years. Part of it is a maturing stage, but part of maturing is becoming spiritually aware.
3223 I have, bottom line, become a giver to society. That is a direct link to my spiritual awakening. Not to mention, I have also actually developed an incredibly ‑‑ I am a perfectionist and I have developed a refreshing sense of humour and I actually laugh at myself now and have discovered that actually most of my friends have been doing that all their life.
3224 But, you know, demographically if spiritual teaching on our local airwaves would yield similar positive fruits, I think with other local listeners you would find this is a very good thing on all fronts, economic, government and community, because we all become givers.
3225 And I know I'm trying to sound clever here, and I am a little, but really, seriously, I am just trying to appeal in any way I can to you. I'm trying to be very aware of what is going on in the world and very fair, and I think I am when I say truly there is an imbalance right now of spiritual teaching on the airwaves.
3226 I am going to be a very old fart in a few years. I am 50 next year. I am getting pretty achy and I am concerned about our future generation, our young folks. They are brilliant, they are smart, but sometimes we are lacking in allowing them or equipping them with tools so that they, when they become our mature decision‑makers, make the right decisions for government, for family.
3227 And especially as we are aging, we want to equip them with programs that make them aware and community oriented because they are going to be dealing with a very large older population and they are going to have to learn love, cooperation, patience and respect for an older generation, and our lives will be in their hands.
3228 I would like to equip them with the foundation to make good, solid decisions.
3229 And sharing on public thoughts very quickly, I talked to so many people. As you can see, I am extremely shy ‑‑ I'm not, but I really enjoy people. What they tell me is they are fascinated and curious when I talk to them about my faith, because I explain faithing not in a way of simply being submissive to an authority figure, but how I have come to develop a sense of awareness through deep study based on logic and substance, supporting historical facts and from a deep analysis of God's promises.
3230 And coming from a good educated background and a scientific mind, I could apply all those tools and become a faither on real substance and truth seeking. And people just light up. They light up and say to me, where did you get this data? They suddenly become interested.
3231 So this is what teaching tools can do for somebody. It can turn your life around.
3232 I get the sense that we are all really excited to learn when a fertile learning ground is provided, and a radio station with Christian teaching I think is a wonderful opportunity.
3233 By the way, a lot of these folks I have talked to aren't church‑goers. They don't have another media format they attend. I can understand in some cases it just might be a reluctance to commit because they are again not informed. And wouldn't this be a wonderful way through radio airwaves to deliver to another segment of our community that don't currently participate in any other faithing programs?
3234 Here is a big point for me. I am a cross‑border shopper, not by choice. I want to talk just a little bit ‑‑ I am going to read this because there are facts about the Oprah Winfrey show.
3235 She has had a soul series now for 10 weeks straight with Eckhart Tolle, once a week for 10 weeks: intense, intense study course. I am not here to debate the opinions or content of that spiritual teaching, but rather to point out they were offering spiritual teaching and enlightenment.
3236 And after each session each week, the following day people would Skype in from around the world on radio waves, on the Oprah satellite radio channel, 26 million people for 10 weeks. No quitters, no fad because it was Oprah's show; did the hard study and stuck to it and last week on the last show, call‑in on the radio show, Oprah said the biggest comment I am getting from all my callers is this: What do we do now? It's over.
3237 So her and her marketing crew quickly put together what is now called the "Summer Soul Series". They are going to continue it.
3238 Is this a wake‑up call? Is this a sign of the times?
3239 I think we need to ask ourselves: Is there a niche here for us? I think there is.
3240 Maybe it is time for local ownership. Maybe it is time. We live in the capital city of Ottawa and we have one Christian station. Could it be possible that we could open up something that is such a good quality type programming to benefit all of our community?
3241 We basically have a passionate, qualified radio personnel who has already shown you a proven track record of delivery. We have a program lineup with dedicated teachers and visionaries that are chomping at the bit for the opportunity. I think it is a viable Canadian vision. I think it is a great opportunity for you as individuals to have a deciding hand in the launching of it.
3242 Is it an emotional hotbed? I mean, do these programs incite hatred?
3243 THE SECRETARY: I'm sorry. Please conclude. Your time is over.
3244 MS KORNHERR: Okay.
3245 I think they do engage the mind. I think there is a big difference and I think the risk far outweighs ‑‑ I'm sorry, I'm sure that the benefits far outweigh the risks.
3246 There is just so much I need to tell you that I haven't had a chance. I have left a copy of this with the Secretary.
3247 But bottom line is it is a very, very important decision. It is in your hands. There is a very loyal body of listeners who are going to partake in this and we ask for your consideration.
3248 Lastly, to close, I am getting old and my eyes are dimming and my joints are aching, but I really have great hearing. So I do hope you keep your heart open for my ears so I can have many years of audio delight.
3249 Thank you so much for your time.
3250 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3251 We will hear the next presentation. Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
3252 MS HUNTER: My name is Emily Hunter and I am here today to represent a bit of a different demographic. I might not have grey hair, but I definitely am just as enthusiastic about this initiative as everyone else is.
3253 First, what I'm going to do is I'm going to try to outline the different levels of participation I have in the Ottawa Christian community so that I can explain with what authority I am saying that there is a listing base.
3254 First, I am a parishioner of Christ the Saviour Orthodox Church on Somerset Street, and on this level I think that I can really say as an Orthodox Christian, a lot of time in the media we kind of clump together all Christian confessions and saying okay, since we already have a Christian radio station, we don't necessarily need another.
3255 But I can tell you that within my parish and within the community a lot of the time we feel like we don't really have any kind of, you know, teachings or talk shows or anything that really not necessarily target us but touch us as Orthodox Christians.
3256 One of the things that really caught my attention, and everyone else's attention in the Orthodox community is that they are actually going to have two shows which are Orthodox Christian shows on this radio station.
3257 In terms of that, I think that this really is a testament to the diversity that there will be if WORD‑FM, God willing, comes to pass. There will be diversity. It is not a matter of all of the thinking and all of the perspectives being, you know, unilateral and in one way. It will reach different listening bases within the region.
3258 Also, at my parish I am the Youth Director, which means that I have lots of contact with the kids and with the teens and of course with their parents and with the other members of the Parish Council. In doing this, you know, I get to talk to them and I am invited to their homes.
3259 They have exhaustive, exhaustive libraries of Bible studies and Christian commentaries in their homes and, you know, likewise after liturgy on Sunday mornings we sit down in the parish hall and we will sit there sometimes and talk for hours, two or three hours afterwards about different Christian topics and we learn together.
3260 On a different level, I am also one of the youth directors in the city that works for inter‑Orthodox activities, meeting the different parishes in the city getting together, having retreats, having conferences, having Bible studies and really there are hundreds of people that are involved in this.
3261 What I am really building up here is I'm trying to show that there is a large, large group of people who are committed to learning about their faith, whether it is by going to the St. John the Fellowship Bible Study at St. Elias once a week, every Tuesday, for an hour. It is kind of like a college and careers age group. They do this every week and there are about 20 or 25 people that come.
3262 At the university on campus there is another Bible study that I attend. I am the President of the Orthodox Christian Fellowship on campus and we have about the same amount of students, a different group of students, 20, 25 people. They come every week. They give an hour of their busy schedule.
3263 Again, what I am trying to demonstrate is within even ‑‑ we are not even being targeted, our demographic, the college and careers age, but even within our demographic there is this thirst for knowledge. There is a thirst for wanting to know more. We go to school, we go to university, we learn so many interesting things in our classes and our programs, but there is another side of us, which is our Christian identity which we want to be able to grow and we want to be able to learn from.
3264 As great as the Christian hits radio station is, just like anyone else there are different demographics within the Christian community. There are different interests. You know, there are different types of people with different tastes in music.
3265 This is why I feel that there really is a need for specifically a hymns and teachings radio station.
3266 Like I have tried to describe by talking about the different Bible studies ‑‑ I haven't even begun to name all of them because I am just talking about within my age group within the Orthodox community how many Bible studies there are and how many committed people there are. But within the greater Ottawa area it is enormous and it really is.
3267 So in terms of the teachings, I think that it would be great to have a radio station that kind of tapped into that and that, as was said before, kind of opened our minds and our hearts to the depth of knowledge and study that has developed over thousands of years, 2,000 years within Christianity.
3268 I would also like to talk a bit about my activities on campus.
3269 I am actually an employee of the university. I work at Spiritual Services Centre which is under Community Life. What we started to do this year was take statistical data of everybody that walked into our center, and I can tell you that at the beginning it was really tedious. None of us really wanted to do it; you know, check every person that came in, say what year they were in or what their ‑‑ not their business, but what they were doing in our center.
3270 But now it's great, because it has given me the tools to be able to tell you that our service at the university, Spiritual Services, is the most active service on campus, to the extent that our mandate and our presence on campus has officially been extended for next semester.
3271 We have an average of 50 people coming into our office, and on top of that we have dozens of Bible studies going on every day.
3272 You know, it is also interesting to note that out of all of the clubs, you know, the Rowing Club, the Journalism Club, all of these different clubs on campus, actually the Catholic Christian Outreach is the largest numerically, the amount of members.
3273 I'm not talking members that signed a paper to create the club and then disappeared. I am talking active members that come to faith studies. They come to Bible studies. They go to the praise and worship meetings.
3274 I find that very interesting because a lot of the time I think that we tend to think that there is a minority of people in the region that would want this kind of radio; that there is a minority of people that would actually, you know, in the car, who would do that driving in a car, turn on a teaching or a talk on Christianity. You know, I'm talking people my age.
3275 But you know, it really does happen.
3276 And I think that if all of these people not only make an effort to leave their homes and leave their space and leave their schedule to fit this kind of teaching and Christian study into their lives, how much more would they do it with a radio station which can fit directly into their already existing schedule by listening to it, you know, in the car, on the way to work, or having, you know, a favourite program and turning it on.
3277 I am also going to talk a little bit about something called Ancient Faith Radio. It is a podcast on the Internet, and it talks specifically about the ancient Church and the roots of Christianity, a lot about the Old Testament.
3278 It can be found on the Internet, ancientfaithradio.com.
3279 We often listen to this. It is a podcast, and we will talk about it or we will use this even during our Bible studies at the various churches and we will refer to them when talking about the commentaries, the explanations of Scripture. And I also think it would be great if we could incorporate some of that into the current airwaves.
3280 Another note is that, you know, not to draw divisions within the Christian community, because we all share our faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and we all definitely do love God and seek his will, but as a liturgical Christian, as someone who, you know, attends a church where I am very used to hymns ‑‑ hymns are in my nature. When I think of praising God or of praying, there are more traditional and liturgical hymns that come to my heart and that come to my lips, and I find that it would be great to be able to have a radio station that really addresses that.
3281 I think that it is something that is definitely lacking on the airwaves right now.
3282 So I hope I haven't gone too quickly and jumped from one thing to another too much, but what I have tried to do is really lay out how there is a desire for this type of station in this city, how it would very much be welcomed, and also how it is different. It is fundamentally different from the already existing Christian radio station.
3283 It targets a different audience, it targets a different demographic, it targets also ‑‑ it also serves different confessions of the faith.
3284 So thank you so much for your time and I hope that this has helped somewhat in your decision‑making process.
3285 Thank you.
3286 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3287 We will now hear the next presentation. Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
3288 MR. RUNOLFSON: I am Charles Runolfson and my wife was listed but she is going to let me do the presentation.
3289 I think what I want to say is more concerned with the state of our nation. We spent four months a year down in the southern U.S. and there is just such a difference of day and night when we come back from the U.S. I think the reason for this is that the U.S. has a strong Christian presence because they have had Christian television and Christian radio for many years. Unfortunately, in Canada we have hindered this part of the broadcasting world, I guess you would call it.
3290 So with their Christian media, they have been able to challenge the anti‑Christian organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union and Planned Parenthood and those other anti‑Christian organizations, whereas in Canada we have ‑‑ particularly in the last several years we had this Court Challenges Program which gave the homosexuals and the feminists basically free court costs to challenge anybody who disagreed with their agenda. So as a result we see that Canada has gone backwards over the last 10 or 20 years, whereas the Americans are moving forward.
3291 We see, for example, abortion down in the U.S. I believe is getting close to the point where they are going to be probably realizing that it is not a viable alternative, whereas in Canada if you even mention the word abortion you are almost castigated.
3292 We never hear in Canada, for example, of the Lancet Report which is an English medical journal that talks about abortion and breast cancer. I don't believe that kind of report has ever been mentioned in Canada, although there is a viable connection between abortion and breast cancer.
3293 There is also other situations in the abortion world that aren't even being considered in Canada. For whatever reason, it seems to be not a discussable item.
3294 How many doctors and nurses have had their careers destroyed because they refused to do abortions?
3295 For example, we have OC Transpo having to hire, I think it was 179 constables to reduce the crime on the buses. Well, to me, I think it's time we looked at the source of the problem and I believe the source is the fact that we have become such a non‑Christian or godless nation, however you want to call it, lawless nation, that we have had to increase our security, our police forces. And sooner or later we have to come to grips with the fact that we can't continue that direction.
3296 As I mentioned, we spend a lot of time, the winters in the states. They have 400 Christian TV stations, about 2,500 Christian radio stations. That means in Canada we should have at least 40 Christian TV stations, and over 250 Christian radio stations.
3297 A city the size of Ottawa should have three or four Christian radio stations.
3298 The problem in Canada is, we have been inundated with anti‑Christian programming for too long. The majority of Canadian media is liberal, and mostly anti‑Christian.
3299 The television and movie industry, which is referred to by some Americans in the states as "the hell of America", is also liberal and mostly anti‑Christian.
3300 The Canadian public has not been given, as far as I am concerned, the Christian side of the story. We see it every day.
3301 It was surprising, in 2004, when we returned to Canada, they were having an election. Unfortunately, a couple of Conservative candidates mentioned the word "abortion", and, of course, the media went into a frenzy. Whereas, in the States, it is accepted that you can be pro life or you can be pro abortion. In Canada, it's not an option. You don't even get a choice to mention it.
3302 When my wife started teaching school in 1963, she read the Bible and said the Lord's Prayer each morning to start the school day. These were the days when the problems the teachers had to deal with were chewing gum or misbehaving in class. That was a stark contrast to the problems she had to deal with before retiring in 1998, and she was glad to retire. They were dealing with drugs, alcohol abuse, pregnancies, abortions, sexually transmitted diseases, a complete lack of respect for authority, and a lack of obedience.
3303 One of the reasons is probably the fact that in the sixties about 85 percent of children went to Sunday school and church, while now 15 percent attend.
3304 Those were the days when the teen suicide rate was 2 per 100,000, compared to around 17 per 100,000 now, and that rate is twice as high in Quebec.
3305 It is interesting that our Canadian rate is 57 percent higher than in the U.S. I personally believe that is because people in the States haven't been fed this lie that they evolved from swamp gas, which is the evolution theory.
3306 Quebec, to me, is in a tragic situation. The suicide rate is 35 per 100,000. That rate should be ‑‑
3307 For an atheistic country, Lithuania has a rate of 42 suicides per 100,000. Russia has a rate of 37.4 suicides per 100,000.
3308 Quebec should be a place where the Gospel should be freely accessible to all individuals, not controlled by unelected elite.
3309 Although I know that this will not affect too much the province of Quebec, to me, Quebec has become a case study in what happens when the population walks away from the church.
3310 I mentioned evolution. Many scientists, after analyzing the complexities of molecules and atoms, have concluded that Darwin's theory just cannot support these complex building blocks of our world, yet most scientists in the academic world refuse to even discuss it.
3311 We hear of all kinds of books being published, and it is mentioned in the newspapers about the evolution theory, but we finally have a new movie out, developed by a fellow by the name of Ben Stein in the States, called "Expelled: No intelligence allowed". It basically exposes the hypocrisy of the academic and scientific establishments who, up until now, have been able to destroy the career of anyone that would dare to support creation versus the evolution theory.
3312 This has been on the screens in the U.S. since mid‑April. I believe it is coming to Canada in June, although I have never heard any publicity about it at this point, or talk about it. I hope it comes to Canada, because we certainly need to hear what Mr. Ben Stein has to say in this movie.
3313 Basically, the problem we have had in Canada is that Canada's ruling leaders have used the same approach to destroy the career of anyone that would dare to speak the truth about abortion or homosexuality through what they call Human Rights Commissions, which are basically what many people call kangaroo courts.
3314 Many people's careers have been put on hold or destroyed simply because they wrote a letter to a newspaper ‑‑ school teacher Chris Kempling, for example.
3315 I don't hear any discussion in the media about how the 1982 Charter is slowly destroying the fabric of our Canadian society. Usually the media chooses to convince the public about the great virtues of the Charter, but ‑‑
3316 There was a book put out by a professor from Western University, Roy Leashman(ph), where he looks at the direction we are going.
3317 If you just look at the newspapers, you will see, day in and day out, the problems we are facing in this country, yet we seem to somehow continue to sidestep them.
3318 One of the issues that came to light because of the lack of Christian teaching in this country is that we have seen our premier promoting changing the Lord's Prayer.
3319 We seem to have a serious problem in this country with people understanding spiritual principles. As a result, we have people like this writer in The Citizen saying that the real reason politicians shouldn't pray at Queen's Park is because we don't recite the Lord's Prayer at a Senator's game, so why should we recite it in the legislature.
3320 What we are trying to do is rely on God's wisdom and counsel, and obviously you don't need God's wisdom and counsel if you are going to a Senator's game.
3321 We see people saying, "We should worship all of these gods," but the fact is, we have in this country a real ignorance of the fact that there is only one true God. There are other religions that worship other gods, but there is only one true God.
3322 Most believe that the Muslims' Allah and the God of the Bible are the same, but God has a son, while, according to the Koran, Allah can have no son. In fact, the Muslims emphasize this point on their dome in Jerusalem, which states right on it that Allah has no son.
3323 Although the good news is that every day 16,000 Muslims are leaving Islam for Christianity, and every year 6 million Muslims are leaving Islam for Christianity. They find Islam inconsistent with science, logic, human rights, ethics. They find that Islam is not the way to God, but to ignorance, poverty and war.
3324 THE SECRETARY: I'm sorry, your time is up. Can you please conclude in 30 seconds.
3325 MR. RUNOLFSON: My summary is that I am just to the point that I feel that we have to seriously consider changing the direction this country is going, and the media, as far as I am concerned, is a key part of changing that direction. That's why I feel that we need that Christian radio station.
3326 Thank you.
3327 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Runolfson, Ms Hunter and Ms Kornherr. We don't have any questions for you.
3328 Thank you very much for your presentation.
3329 Madam Secretary.
3330 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask the Aboriginal Media Education Fund to come to the presentation table.
INTERVENTION
3331 MS WATSON: Good morning, everyone.
3332 Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, and Staff, my name is Mireille Watson, and I am the Executive Director of the Aboriginal Media Education Fund, also known as AMEF.
3333 I am appearing before you today to express the unqualified support of the Aboriginal Media Education Fund for the application by Ottawa Media Inc. to operate a new FM radio station serving Ottawa and Gatineau.
3334 Before outlining the reasons why we are appearing before you in support of the Ottawa Media application, I would like to tell you a little more about the Aboriginal Media Education Fund.
3335 You may have heard me about a year and a half ago in Regina, and I hope I am not repeating myself, but, essentially, we are still the same.
3336 AMEF was established almost three years ago. It is a registered, national, charitable organization, and our mandate is to encourage, promote and make possible the development of an Aboriginal pool of film, television and radio broadcast professionals, and to create opportunities for the creation of original Aboriginal programming, and the professional development of Aboriginal persons.
3337 Our education programs target three specific groups: Aboriginal youth who are 13 years of age and older; recent Aboriginal graduates from film and broadcast programs; and mid‑career professionals seeking new career opportunities in broadcasting.
3338 We provide funding and resources to Aboriginal persons who aspire to a career in film, television and radio broadcasting, so that they are able to contribute to both mainstream media industries and to the specialized communications needs of First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities.
3339 AMEF is the go‑to organization for the career development of Aboriginal persons who are contemplating careers in broadcasting. We support our Aboriginal persons in the following ways.
3340 We provide resources and information about career opportunities available in the broadcasting media and communications fields.
3341 We provide funding for Aboriginal students who express an interest in attending training and educational programs in television and radio.
3342 We provide assistance to Aboriginal media and broadcasting organizations in finding employees who have the broadcasting training and skills needed to make a meaningful contribution to their organization.
3343 And we provide assistance to other non‑Aboriginal media and broadcasting organizations that are seeking to increase the representation of Aboriginal people in their workforce.
3344 Each year the funding that we provide to these initiatives is dependent on two factors ‑‑ obviously, the amount of money that we receive from broadcasters and other donors, and the requests we receive from members of the Aboriginal community for funding.
3345 The funding that we receive from radio broadcasters like Ottawa Media Inc., which is provided in accordance with their Canadian Content Development commitments, is used solely for educational programs. The money goes directly to support educational and training programs for Aboriginal students and professionals who are interested in starting a career in radio broadcasting. It is disbursed to the institutions offering the education and training programs, not given directly to the student.
3346 None of the funds we receive as a result of a radio licensee's CCD commitments are used by AMEF to support our administration or infrastructure costs. The funds are used exclusively for educational purposes. As such, we believe that our programs are eligible for CCD funding, in accordance with Broadcasting Public Notice 2006‑158.
3347 I am very happy to express our support for the application by Ottawa Media Inc. for a licence to operate a new FM radio station, known as ALICE, which will serve Ottawa and Gatineau. I believe that the new FM station will provide the Ottawa and Gatineau communities with a new, distinct radio alternative, one that is responsive to the interests of a broad cross‑section of listeners, and one that does not simply focus on the top 40 playlist.
3348 As a radio listener myself, I am pleased that the new station will provide a unique, eclectic mix of music, which will breathe new life into the Ottawa‑Gatineau radio market.
3349 I am also particularly pleased that Ottawa Media Inc., through its CCD commitments, agreed to devote considerable funds to the education and training of Aboriginal youth. AMEF believes that the approval of this application will ensure that Aboriginal persons are able to launch careers in music, journalism and radio.
3350 This is not the first time that Evanov Communications Inc. has made commitments as part of a radio application to support AMEF. We very much appreciate all of the support that Mr. Evanov and his companies have given to our charitable organization.
3351 It is an unfortunate fact of life that the opportunities for Aboriginal youth to work in the broadcasting field are limited. The lack of available funding for Aboriginal youth to obtain proper training or to attend educational programs has had a direct impact on the number of Aboriginal people who are working in the field.
3352 That is why the commitment of funds by Ottawa Media Inc. is so important.
3353 The CCD funds that Ottawa Media Inc. has set aside for AMEF will help us realize our goals of providing the necessary education, mentoring and internships to indigenous people, which will, in turn, allow and encourage them to tell their own stories ‑‑ and hopefully sell them ‑‑ through music and journalism.
3354 By using the funds to help Aboriginal people launch careers in the broadcasting industry, we will also contribute to reducing stereotypes within Canadian society, and will help build bridges between the Aboriginal communities and the rest of Canada.
3355 In our view, the fact that a small number of Aboriginal people work in the broadcasting field has meant that the general population in Canada has had limited exposure to First Nations, Inuit and Métis characters as TV and radio personalities.
3356 This has started to change with the presence of APTN, and we hope that Aboriginal Voices Radio will begin to realize its potential, but there is still a fairly long way to go.
3357 Ottawa Media Inc.'s commitment to provide CCD funding to AMEF is important because it will help to foster the development of Aboriginal talent within the radio industry in Canada. Aboriginal people will aspire to being musicians, writers, producers, on‑air personalities, and will have new career opportunities as a result of this funding.
3358 In the absence of this funding, the Aboriginal youth we support would not have the means to chase their dreams.
3359 In our view, the financial contribution that Ottawa Media Inc. has proposed as part of its CCD commitments will provide enormous benefits to the Aboriginal community. This funding will certainly contribute to the development of audio content in this country. AMEF will use the funds to support, promote, train and develop Aboriginal music and spoken word talent.
3360 In closing, I would reiterate AMEF's strong support for Ottawa Media Inc.'s application to operate an FM radio station serving Ottawa and Gatineau, and the CCD commitments proposed in that application. We believe that the financial commitment made by Ottawa Media Inc. to AMEF will provide significant support to Aboriginal peoples who are seeking a career in music and radio broadcasting.
3361 Thank you.
3362 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms Watson. I thought that your submission was quite elaborate, and we appreciate it very much.
3363 I only have one question. In dealing with Evanov Radio, have they talked about hiring some of the students, or providing some internships and training?
3364 MS WATSON: Certainly, we are looking for funding to promote the hiring of anyone who is trained, but part of the training is, obviously, on‑the‑job training.
3365 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
3366 MS WATSON: That is the most important part.
3367 I have worked on many, many training programs across the country, and in this industry that is the only thing that works.
3368 Essentially, we would work with Evanov. I have already started working on programs. And we would make sure that there was very much a formal training part, and then an on‑the‑job mentorship.
3369 And I think I can easily say, having run some national training programs, that 90 percent of graduates are usually hired by the broadcasters they work with ‑‑ until, of course, the CBC comes along and takes them away.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
3370 THE CHAIRPERSON: Or another broadcaster.
3371 MS WATSON: Or another broadcaster.
3372 THE CHAIRPERSON: As you said in your presentation, you are getting funding from other radio broadcasters ‑‑ or other broadcasters, not necessarily radio.
3373 MS WATSON: As you know, we have been very generously included in many. Most of the decisions have not yet come through.
3374 But, in the meantime, we have done marvellously with limited funding. We have been getting moneys from other organizations, like INAC, like Aboriginal Workshop, Trade Roots, and with that we have started some major programs.
3375 I am looking forward to the day when there is more money to do more training, because we have all of our databases, we are ready to go, and I am really looking forward to being able to hire a couple more people.
3376 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you have a similar program in the French language?
3377 MS WATSON: We definitely have programs in both languages.
3378 Also, I am now working with some of the Inuit northern broadcasters to look at doing things in Aboriginal languages.
3379 As you might know, dealing with Aboriginal youth, those who are already in the industry, it is very important to go to them, as opposed to putting out a call.
3380 One of the very important things that we have been doing is actually reaching out to the people and deciding who is ready to be trained, and actually approaching them and tailoring programs that will benefit them, and making sure that there will be an employer at the end of the day.
3381 I divert. I am going way beyond what you asked me.
3382 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms Watson.
3383 MS WATSON: Thank you.
3384 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary.
3385 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3386 I would now ask Karen Wood, Kevin Harrison, and the Women's Business Network of Ottawa to come to the presentation table.
3387 We will start with the presentation of Karen Wood. You will have ten minutes for your presentation. Thank you.
INTERVENTION
3388 MS WOOD: My name is Karen Wood. I own a boutique PR agency in Ottawa called "Knock on Wood Communications and Events". We are publicists for various consumer, community, arts and entertainment events and festivals. We work to generate promotion and publicity for these entities, and provide the media with news stories that are pertinent to the particular properties we are promoting.
3389 I see that a station like Eve‑fm would be of significant benefit to the Ottawa community. I think it is time for a station that specifically speaks to women.
3390 There have long been stations primarily targeting men. That is not to say that women aren't sports fans. That is not to say that women aren't business owners and interested in talk radio shows that focus on finances or home renovations, but there are many women‑centric issues that I think this station would bring forward.
3391 The popularity of new web portals specifically targeting women ‑‑ the subscription lists are growing really rapidly. We know that because we are using them to promote our products and services.
3392 A lot of the events that we work on, and a lot of the clients that we work for are marketing services, events, products that specifically target women, and I really think that Eve‑fm would be a great addition to the Ottawa radio landscape.
3393 As I mentioned, while there are stations in the market that may target women with their music programming, the additional content, things like tips and stories about the home, relationships, fashion, family, community events, even the kinds of entertainment events that we work to promote, like Broadway shows, Cirque de Soleil, the Ottawa Home Show, and different festivals, like the Dragon Boat Festival ‑‑ a lot of times we are looking for partners in promotion and publicity that provide more opportunity to reach out directly to this audience, and I don't really feel that there are stations in the marketplace right now that can do that, certainly not to the extent that Eve‑fm could.
3394 That is pretty much my pitch.
3395 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. We will now hear the presentation of Kevin Harrison.
INTERVENTION
3396 MR. HARRISON: Hi, my name is Kevin Harrison. I am the Executive Director of the Action Centre in Montreal, and I am also a very dedicated volunteer for Muscular Dystrophy Canada, which is a non‑profit organization that helps people with neuromuscular disorders. I have been very involved for the last 15 years of my life with them, for obvious reasons.
3397 I have been living in the Ottawa area for three and a half years now, and I immediately wanted to get involved in my new community when I arrived.
3398 I have been organizing charity events since my early high school days, and what was once called Standard Radio, and is now called Astral Media, has stood behind me time and time again over the years to help me help others with all of the charity work I do.
3399 When I moved to Ottawa, I approached Astral's Ottawa Station, Bear FM, and met with its manager within just a couple of days of making the initial call. I couldn't believe the level of community involvement that The Bear was involved with. It was remarkable.
3400 Not only did they support my inaugural gala event by providing promotions and prizes, management of the station got involved on the organizing committee, attended all of the meetings, and put his own personal time into it, which is something you don't see every day.
3401 As well as on‑air personalities who came to emcee the event, the MD "Gala of Hope" is now in its fourth year. A quarter of a million dollars has been raised for the muscular dystrophy cause, which is phenomenal.
3402 This all came about because Astral cares about its community and the people living in it.
3403 I recently had the pleasure of working with The Bear once again on a new spring initiative, called "The Chairwear Challenge", where we challenged the people of Ottawa to spend a full day in a wheelchair to see what it's like, to walk a mile in my shoes.
3404 We had over 20 Bear listeners who signed up and raised $35,000 for the muscular dystrophy cause.
3405 The outcome of this event wasn't only that money was raised, the participants had a newfound respect and admiration for what people in wheelchairs have to go through every day.
3406 Not only that, we had commitments from various vendors in the Ottawa area, retailers, who recognized that their establishments weren't wheelchair accessible, and thought it was time to get with the program and start looking into adapting their places.
3407 Again, all of these good things came about because this corporate citizen, Astral, cares for its listeners, and people in general.
3408 Sure, the radio business already has competition, but what industry doesn't at this point? It is competition that pushes us all to do better, to move forward, to stand out from the next guy.
3409 There is nothing wrong at all in giving the radio listeners of Ottawa a little choice on the airwaves.
3410 I think it's a great idea, creating Eve‑fm. It is a unique lifestyle concept for women, offered for the first time in the North American market. We are talking about a radio station that will provide advice on simplifying life and maintaining a healthy balance, basically keeping it simple in the hectic times we live in.
3411 We could all benefit from some of those teachings. I know that I certainly could.
3412 The CRTC should grant the application for the creation of this unique radio station, not only because it is unique, but because Eve‑fm will help to make Ottawa a better place to live. Astral Media isn't only going to do a good job in getting it up and running and off the ground, they will do a great job, and they certainly have my vote of confidence.
3413 Thank you.
3414 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3415 We will now hear the presentation of the Women's Business Network of Ottawa.
3416 Please introduce yourself. You will have ten minutes.
INTERVENTION
3417 MS RUTHERFORD: Good morning. My name is Deanna Rutherford, and I am here both as an individual resident of this community and as the Director of External Communications, which is a volunteer position, with the Women's Business Network of Ottawa.
3418 I am here to support Astral Media's application for Eve‑fm.
3419 The Women's Business Network of Ottawa is a 26‑year‑old organization that supports, obviously, women in business.
3420 As for myself, I am involved in many things. I have been in business for over 25 years, and the business I have at the moment is as a coach ‑‑ a marketing coach, a life coach, and an anti‑aging specialist. I have quite a combination of skills going.
3421 Personally, I am a radio listener, and often find it frustrating that I can't find anything that is consistently appealing to me on the many stations that now exist in the area.
3422 I tend to be constantly punching in the car, looking for something, and not finding it.
3423 What Astral Media is proposing is a real breath of fresh air in the world of radio in our community, for the world of radio listeners.
3424 I support their creative initiative in thoughtfully proposing a station that does not yet exist anywhere, and will certainly gain a vast listening audience from Day 1 in our community.
3425 Women have important things to say. We have important things to share.
3426 I know this is a station, as Kevin said, that will not simply be listened to by women. It will appeal to men, as well.
3427 However, with regard to women, we contribute a huge amount to our local economy. So, of course, intelligent advertisers will support the station with advertising revenues. It is a well known fact that women make most of the household and other purchases.
3428 Personally, I welcome the kind of music and programming format which they are proposing. Myself and my business associates, both in the WBN ‑‑ the Women's Business Network ‑‑ and the several other women's networks that I belong to are 100 percent behind this station, and are willing to be key contributors as well.
3429 There are many, many women in this community who have talents and skills that could contribute to this station, which is so unique.
3430 And, again, hats off to Astral Media for putting this proposal forward. It's definitely needed in our community.
3431 So, I have some background in radio myself and so I understand the enormity of Astral's initiative, but I also know that they're investing in state‑of‑the‑art technology and giving Eve‑FM the widest possible coverage so that all listeners who fall within the greater Ottawa area will have access to this exciting and long‑awaited station.
3432 So, I urge you to consider and to help bring this station to our community.
3433 And thank you very much for your attention.
3434 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Morin.
3435 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Yes. My first question will be with Mr. Harrison.
3436 You said that Astral has fully supported several charitable projects. Did you try to get other stations involved in your efforts?
3437 MR. HARRISON: That's a good question.
3438 I have worked with several companies over the years, such as Corus ‑‑ Corus, CHUM maybe a few years back. I've got to be honest though, I've had ‑‑ out of all the big radio broadcasters, I mean, Astral/Standard Radio was the one that was the most involved in the community in terms of the air time ‑‑ the amount of air time they give. Just a different mentality altogether when it came to promoting charity events.
3439 So, that's where I had my most luck and I stuck with No. 1.
3440 COMMISSIONER MORIN: So, you are not in a position to compare Astral with other radio stations because ‑‑
3441 MR. HARRISON: I am in the sense that I have worked with other stations on several occasions, not having much luck, being disappointed by the amount of publicity that was committed to the various gala walks, all the events I've done.
3442 And, again, Astral/Standard Radio always came out ahead as being the most generous. So, I ‑‑
3443 COMMISSIONER MORIN: As far as you're concerned?
3444 MR. HARRISON: As far as I'm concerned, yeah, yeah.
3445 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Now, perhaps another question with Ms Wood.
3446 As an organization, have you ever done business with this type of radio, I mean, a radio station mainly focused on 35‑64 years old clientele?
3447 MS WOOD: Have I done business with a radio station like this? I mean, obviously not one that's specific to women, but absolutely.
3448 We also do a lot of work with various charity and community organizations and we negotiate radio sponsorship and promotional support and we work with a myriad of clients and I've worked with every radio station in the city in some capacity.
3449 I mean, there are radio stations out there now that are our current partners for events and client projects that we're working on.
3450 But I really think, I mean from our portfolio of clients and events, that Eve‑FM would be a tremendous fit promotionally and publicity wise for a lot of the different things we work on.
3451 COMMISSIONER MORIN: But specifically, why this format will be easier for you?
3452 MS WOOD: I mean, our job when we work for clients is twofold. I mean ‑‑ well, it's singular in that we're trying to generate awareness of new products and services that will be of interest to the public.
3453 And we do that by ‑‑ whether, you know, through sponsorship and promotion and through distributing media releases and pitching story ideas, and the Eve‑FM format will offer a platform to tell the listeners, which in this case will be specifically women 35 plus, about specific products, services, events, community programs that are of specific interest to them.
3454 I mean, there isn't right now ‑‑ I mean, certainly we get coverage in newspapers and, you know ‑‑ I mean, we do get interviews on other radio stations including CBC that has a broader talk format, but the fact Eve‑FM, in addition to its musical programming that's going to appeal to women 35 plus, there is an opportunity here for more sort of editorial type coverage and we're in the business of generating story ideas that the media pick up on because they're of specific interest to their listeners.
3455 And I just ‑‑ when I look at our whole portfolio, we're often looking for a fit, whether it be promotionally or publicity wise for our audience which we target primarily females 35 plus for a lot of the events and initiatives that we work on.
3456 COMMISSIONER MORIN: My next question will be with the Women in Business, but you can jump in if you want.
3457 In your letter of support you said that it will be a station that speaks to and reflects issues of interest to women.
3458 Would you say that other radio stations are not taking care of issues of interest to women?
3459 MS RUTHERFORD: Certainly not in a consistent manner or a concerted ‑‑ or, they don't make a concerted effort.
3460 This is what I see in what is being proposed for Eve‑FM that, you know, let's face it, there is a difference between what men and women listen to and watch on television, for example, there's the action station on TV and there's the women's station on TV, so... And the issues that are dealt with tend to be somewhat different.
3461 As I said in my presentation, I see that there's going to be ‑‑ there are going to be men who will find this a very soothing, interesting station to listen to, but from what I understand, Astral Media, Eve‑FM will be focused definitely far more on what it is that we as women are looking for, both in terms of lifestyle and, for example, my network, the Women's Business Network, we're 170 women all of whom are in business or senior positions or executives in corporations and I have discussed with a lot of them about what kind of programming, what kind of music they want to have access to and they're very much behind what Astral Media is proposing as a clear alternative to what's out there now.
3462 Like, right now what we're looking at is we're looking at rock stations, we're looking at oldies stations, we're looking at news stations ‑‑ not that women aren't interested in the news ‑‑ but Astral will bring that in along with all of the other issues that they plan to cover.
3463 And there's a lot ‑‑ there are a lot of resourceful women in our community who would want to be part of this, want to participate in this.
3464 COMMISSIONER MORIN: So, would you say that it will be the main difference between Eve‑FM and the competitors?
3465 MS RUTHERFORD: Sorry, I...?
3466 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Would you say that the main difference will be the focus on women and their interest ‑‑
3467 MS RUTHERFORD: Absolutely.
3468 COMMISSIONER MORIN: ‑‑ and talks about them ‑‑
3469 MS RUTHERFORD: Yes.
3470 COMMISSIONER MORIN: ‑‑ and the issues they are facing?
3471 MS RUTHERFORD: Yes, yes.
3472 MS WOOD: If I can just add to that. I mean, as was mentioned, there are a variety of stations out there that their music programming can be targeted primarily at women in this same demographic age group, but you see segmenting in television programming with the emergence of shows like the W Network, WTN, the Food Network.
3473 I mean, women are business owners, women are interested in real estate, women are interested in home renovation.
3474 Now, they're designing home renovation programs specifically targeting the special way that women go about their own home renovations.
3475 Recently at the last Home Show we got tremendous publicity for a company called Tomboy Tools that manufacturers and distributes tools for women, by women, ergonomically designed to fit a woman's hand and they put home renovation in a context that appeals to women.
3476 There are already existing segmented stations that, like a sports station or a talk radio, and while certainly women are sports fans and certainly women want to listen to the business programming that's on some of the existing stations, but there are specific issues.
3477 We're business owners but we're also mothers; we're business owners but we still care about fashion and anti‑aging products.
3478 And, you know, there's a reason why Oprah Winfrey's show is so successful, she's speaking to women. Men can still enjoy it, men are interested in it, but the subject matter or the way of dealing with or positioning certain subject matter has a woman's sensibility, and I think that's important today.
3479 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Thank you very much.
3480 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms Wood and Rutherford and Mr. Harrison.
3481 We will take a 15‑minute break.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1011 / Suspension à 1011
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1030 / Reprise à 1030
THE SECRETARY: Please take a seat.
3482 We will now start with the presentation of Mr. Dan Ackroyd.
3483 Mr. Ackroyd, you have 10 minutes to make your presentation.
3484 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
3485 MR. ACKROYD: Yes, good morning.
3486 This is Dan Ackroyd, I'm in New York City. I'm a summer resident of Canada and, of course, a Canadian citizen.
3487 And my reason for lobbying on behalf of a blues station; namely, DAWG‑FM, a new blues format, I guess primarily comes from my view of media and culture today.
3488 We have a preponderance in film and in television, in video games of violence and adolescents and young people today are being exposed to an increasing degree of violent activity in the media, also activity which demeans the gender of both women and men.
3489 And what a good, honest blues station offers is decent entertainment which is free of the profanity that is allowed on radio, for instance, like I cite Howard Stern and such shows where there's a venal, profane attitude towards the listener.
3490 And the blues station DAWG‑FM, the type of format they propose would be completely free of this type of, I would say, cultural decline and what it offers the people is music that is sourced from the African‑American songbook, music that is sourced from the greatest fonts in the world, that is, the music of the south, of the electric blues of Memphis, of Chicago which, in turn, brought us rock & roll and the music that we listen to today.
3491 So, from a cultural point of view and a moral point of view, if you will, just trying to improve what young adolescents are seeing and hearing in the media, and an educational point of view, because the blues stations do educate about the origins of this music and where it's from and where it's going. This I think makes up the substance of a pretty strong appeal.
3492 And then you have the aspects of the commercial applications, the fact that a blues station will encourage people to buy records, either online or at stores, it will encourage people to maybe pick up instruments and play, it will encourage young people to find out more about this music, it will encourage liquor licence operators to bring live music into their venues.
3493 And, so, generally it affects a whole range of industries and that sort of constitutes the first body of my statement.
3494 And if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
3495 But my experience is that I host the House of Blues Radio Hour and we're in almost 200 markets across the United States. We're in our 16th year of broadcasting and the feedback and reaction from the markets we're in is just phenomenal.
3496 We've added immeasurably to listeners' pleasure all over North America and I think that DAWG‑FM would be a most worthy addition to radio culture and to Canadian media.
3497 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Ackroyd, I'm asking Commissioner Katz to ask you some questions.
3498 MR. ACKROYD: Sure.
3499 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Good morning, Mr. Ackroyd and thank you for taking the time for this intervention.
3500 MR. ACKROYD: Thank you, sir.
3501 COMMISSIONER KATZ: In your letter that you sent us back about a year ago you highlight, as the Applicant has highlighted, the need for a solely blues channel format here in Canada.
3502 What has been, to your knowledge, the experience in the U.S. markets with an all‑blues radio format?
3503 MR. ACKROYD: Very ‑‑ the all‑blues radio format that a lot of stations have taken up has been very successful. The advertising rates have, you know, come to the level of what we used to call, you know, FM album rock stations or popular rock stations, it started to climb.
3504 The blues networks ‑‑ the blues stations support a whole range of cultural live events, for instance, blues festivals and blues clubs and blues musicians and just the whole community.
3505 And the success of stations and also our syndicated effort here with the House of Blues Radio Hour has been basically unqualified, enough to keep these people in business here over the last few years.
3506 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Obviously the U.S. market is a much bigger market than the Canadian market, but if you look at the top 100 markets in the U.S., do the majority of them have an all‑blues format station?
3507 MR. ACKROYD: I wouldn't say it's in the majority, but I would say that a large number of markets are coming to this.
3508 As you are well aware, what's happened in radio in the United States is that talk radio and sports radio have come in and really taken over music formats and, so, there's a movement to try to, I guess, keep the talk and the sports to a limit in some areas.
3509 And the popularity of the blues stations is being tried, it's true, but where people have stayed with it, it's been very, very effective and has knit together an entire community of businessmen, of advertisers, of radio programmers and musicians wherever it's been done.
3510 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Has the introduction of satellite radio, Sirius or XM with an all‑blues format helped or hindered the expansion of blues basic radio?
3511 MR. ACKROYD: I think it's helped because they do such a good job at the satellite radio of presenting the blues formats and although, as you're aware, XM and Sirius now are going through this merger because they haven't been able to generate any profits, I don't think you can ‑‑ I just think you can really just pin that on the fact that people feel a little hesitant buying a device and subscribing.
3512 You have to ‑‑ in order to have satellite radio, as you know, you have to own the hardware then you have to do a subscription. So, I think this has held some people back.
3513 But those that I talked to that listen to satellite radio, the Bluesville Station on XM is just a staple, it's on in their cars and trucks all that time.
3514 And I know when I drive across country I just leave it right there on that Bluesville Station because they do a great job of formatting.
3515 I think if satellite radio, you know, can come to the point where they can convince people to buy the hardware, it's going to be a lot more successful, but obviously free radio has its appeal and, that is, that you just turn it on and you don't have to pay a subscription every month and you don't have to buy the special hardware for it.
3516 So, there's definitely a place for an all‑blues format I think in the free radio of Canadian media.
3517 COMMISSIONER KATZ: You failed to say the other reason you listen to it is because it plays your music as well, but...
3518 MR. ACKROYD: Well, it plays ‑‑ yeah. The thing about blues is it plays, it's such a wide ranging from of art. You know, people say, well, blues music, it makes you sad or it sings about people who have disadvantage.
3519 Well, really there's a lot of humour in blues and the songs can range from satirical to political, you know, to social.
3520 So ‑‑ and right now in Canada we have a tremendous community of blues players, if you want to go back and sort of take, you know, a little reverence for Dutch Mason and the old guys like that, and then you take Donny Walsh and Downchild Blues Band and then, of course, there's Colin James.
3521 And we have artists all across the country, artists out of New Brunswick, Matt Anderson. You know, there's rising stars in the world, but they need the exposure.
3522 Every great blues star that's out there, whether it's the biggest, Bonny Rait, B.B. King, Buddy Guy, they have to tour and they've got to be on the radio in order to sell their records.
3523 So, what the blues format does is it services, I would say, the several hundred blues artists across Canada that are proud to be Canadian, that are proud to be in this forum and singing and playing blues but doing it in a Canadian sense, writing about Canadian culture, playing to Canadian audiences.
3524 So, it supports a range of artists who are truly Canadian, loyal to the country, still touring in the country, haven't had the exposure in the U.S., need it in Canada.
3525 It encourages record sales, it encourages venue owners to hire the bands and it basically supports an entire culture that has a possibility to grow to great length and expanse.
3526 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Thank you very much.
3527 Those are my questions, Mr. Chairman.
3528 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
3529 Thank you very much, Mr. Ackroyd. Thank you for taking the time and calling us. It's very much appreciated.
3530 So, if you want to hear what the others have to say you could stay on the line, otherwise we'll thank you very much for the time.
3531 MR. ACKROYD: All right. Thank you kindly.
3532 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
3533 Ms Secretary.
3534 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the presentation of Mr. El‑Chantiry. You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
3535 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
3536 MR. EL‑CHANTIRY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Panel members and staff.
3537 Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
3538 Today I think I'm going to speak in a different aspect than the previous speaker. Obviously the previous speaker is well in tune with blues and artists' names and so on.
3539 I want to speak a little bit about why I'm here today. I'm a city councillor at the City of Ottawa, representing West Carleton/Lanark where Mr. Bernard ‑‑ Todd Bernard one of the applicants reside with his family.
3540 And I took the time today out of my work to support this application knowing it has a local community flavour by having Mr. Bernard as a resident in my ward, in my area. We belong to the same church and community association which his wife and his kids attend frequently, his family live across the street from my family business.
3541 And I want to speak about how fast the blues has grown in the City of Ottawa. My office is on the north side of the park and, as you know, in the past the Blues Fest has always reside at the city park outside the City Hall and unfortunately this year we're going to miss that sitting in your office and listening to the music playing and having all my friends calling me to come to my office which is ‑‑ they usually don't, except in Blues Festival time ‑‑ this year they're moving to ‑‑ I believe to the new location is LaBreton Flats and that's going to be their new residence.
3542 So, what I'm trying to say here, in my five years at the City Hall, I witness the growth in number and fans of the Blues Fest and I can assure you to have a station to play that type of music during the year, and I'm not looking, of course, just for playing the music itself, I'm looking for to be a community station and that's what I heard from the applicant, they would like to see more of news, interviews, traffic.
3543 As you know, Todd Bernard was known in the City of Ottawa as Captain Todd when he came 14 years ago from Toronto through Skyward and he was the general manager for the company.
3544 So, I'm looking for that type of station can be part of our community, can get involved in fund raising like the one I just did this weekend by shaving my head for Cops for Cancer. As you can see, I don't normally shave my head like this.
3545 And that's the type of station I'm looking for as a City of Ottawa resident and City of Ottawa councillor who really witnessed the growth of the blues family in the City of Ottawa.
3546 So, I don't have more to add, Mr. Chair, other than I will encourage you, you and your Panel, to have an open mind about this application because it's not just a big media company that's looking for another spot on the dial up, it has a local connection to the city, to our residents.
3547 And I would be glad to answer any questions if you have any.
3548 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3549 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3550 We'll now hear the presentation of Northern Blues Music.
3551 Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
3552 MR. LITWIN: Yes, good morning. And thank you for having me appear before the CRTC.
3553 My name is Fred Litwin and I'm the President and owner of Northern Blues Music. We're a blues music label that actually is based here in Ottawa and I want to tell you a bit about my company.
3554 I was actually fortunate enough to retire in 2000 from working and I decided I needed to have something to do with the rest of my life and I started Northern Blues Music, a blues label that's dedicated to bringing the best of Canadian artists and American artists to the market around the world.
3555 And to that end I'm really proud that last week at the Blues Music Awards in Mississippi one of my American artists was awarded the album of the year for the Blues Music Awards, which is quite an honour for a Canadian company to do that.
3556 Let me talk a bit about blues music. I mean blues music is everywhere. Everything that we listen to today really ‑‑ most of what we listen to; jazz and rock, soul, really originated with blues. That's where it all came from. The source of a lot of modern music comes from blues. I mean if you go back to the Rolling Stones they were a blues band. That was their whole raison d'être was to be a great blues band.
3557 Advertisers use blues all over the place. You can barely turn ‑‑ not see a TV commercial that doesn't use blues or radio commercials. In fact one of my Canadian artists, Paul Reddick, for the last three years has had a song that's been used in a Coca‑Cola commercial that's been played in the United States, and that's generated a significant amount of revenue for him and me.
3558 In Canada blues is everywhere. Just about every city has a blues club and it's not just the blues festivals that we have in London and Windsor, Ottawa and Atlantic Canada. It's the fact that every folk festival in Canada plays blues because people want to hear it and we've got thousands and thousands, a lot of blues artists, a lot of artists who play blues.
3559 Now, I want to talk to you about why this station. And I have got to show you, this is a CD. I have a CD for you if you want to take one home. One of my ‑‑ this is one of my Canadian artists who actually lives here in Ottawa, J.W. Jones, and I know he testified here, I think yesterday in support of this application.
3560 I signed J.W. when he was 19 years old back in 2000. He was the first artist I signed. He was a young kid and here in Ottawa trying to make a living in blues, and now this is his fifth CD for NorthernBlues just released this month around the world. It's an amazing CD. He has got some great American blues artists as guests and it was recorded right in his home here in Ottawa.
3561 The sad fact is that this CD is only going to get played maybe once or twice on the Holger Peterson show on CBC on Saturday night. It will get played on a couple of blues radio shows that are perhaps once a week in various cities in Canada, and that's it. Nobody is going to hear the CD. It's a great music CD. It's fantastic.
3562 This is a local artist and the plain fact of the matter is that it's not going to get heard by Canadians because radio stations just won't play blues. Now, they will play Eric Clapton perhaps sometimes because he is very, very popular even though that also is blues, but J.W. is not going to get airplay. He is not going to get airplay here in Ottawa or around the country and he really deserves it.
3563 I am really proud of this CD and my other Canadian artists. And one of the things that I have tried to do with my company is I have American artists and I have Canadian artists and those American artists allow me to bring these Canadian artists into the United States market where they get exposure there. So I have credibility for my American artists down there and that allows me to bring these people down to the States where it's very important for them to get exposure.
3564 But besides J.W. Jones there is lots of other blues artists here in Ottawa and other cities in Canada that are struggling to make a living. It's not easy being a blues musician. It's hard. There is not that many clubs. Clubs are having a tough time.
3565 These people need exposure and this music is very important historically for Canada, for the United States and I strongly, strongly urge you to let this station have a chance. Believe me, I am dying to spend my money in advertising on this station and I would love to have a commercial blues station that could actually help me promote this music here in Ottawa and around the country.
3566 I'm passionate about this music. I love it. I do this only because I love it and any chance I get I will promote this music very, very strongly. And I really hope you could help us out here as well.
3567 Anyway, thank you very much for listening to me.
3568 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
3569 Commissioner Katz.
3570 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3571 I have one question, Mr. Litwin. You were saying that a lot of the bars and locations where blues is played are struggling right now. Are there other reasons why they are struggling besides just the fact that their music isn't being played on the radio?
3572 MR. LITWIN: Well, that's one reason they are struggling. There is two parts to it.
3573 For the first part is right now it's tougher and tougher for good musicians to get out to a lot of clubs because of the rising price of gas and the amount of travel it takes to get to clubs. Just this week the Bamboo Room in Florida closed its doors, which is a very, very famous blues club. And as you know, in Canada it's even harder for blues artists to travel across Canada because of the enormous distances between clubs.
3574 So fewer and fewer artists are actually making the trek out to blues clubs and that deprives some of the clubs of some really, really good artists. That's one reason.
3575 The second reason there is no airplay. There is no promotion so it's hard. I mean if J.W. Jones does a concert at the Rainbow we will get some print media which will be very good because he is a local boy, but that's it. We won't get any radio airplay and we could use it. I wish there was more support of this music because people seem to like it.
3576 COMMISSIONER KATZ: It's an anomaly. People seem to like it and yet people aren't listening to it or attending venues where they are located.
3577 MR. LITWIN: It's a chicken‑and‑the‑egg thing. I mean people like the music when they are exposed to it.
3578 I will give you a good example. One of my friends in the States organized a trip to Iraq to play for American servicemen. He brought over four blues artists. These are 18 to 24 year old kids who have never heard of blues and, yet, the Colonel of the Pentagon said this was the best concert they have had since Bob Hope.
3579 So when people here it actually they love it and that's why ‑‑ and advertisers know that. They use a lot of blues in advertisements. But it's hard on the commercial side to really get the momentum to really get this going.
3580 MR. EL‑CHANTIRY: But can I add something, Mr. Chairman?
3581 And I think that's a good question, Commissioner, because the local bars and clubs it's not just with the blues they are struggling these days; with any other music, mainly as you know the smoking bylaw that's a very ‑‑ we know smoking is not something we will promote or we like to see, but as the City of Ottawa bylaw came in and then the provincial government bylaw banning smoking, smoking out in the patio has been banned and you have to smoke nine metres away from there ‑‑ really had an impact on the business.
3582 I am a businessman myself and I am a city councillor who tours quite often the market in the city for Ottawa and I can tell you most clubs they have tried to do the same thing. Since the smoking ban became in effect it has hurt their business quite a bit.
3583 The only way we hear about the blues is actually during the festival and I know we get quite a bit of media coverage because we close all the roads and you can't use Laurier Street anymore and you can't use ‑‑ but that is just really a week out of the whole year where the Bluesfest is really known to the community, but not any other time unless if you are a late worker like myself and listen to the CBC Saturday evening. I think for two hours they use that station for blues but any other time unless I missed something, I haven't really noticed the promotion of the blues music on our station.
3584 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Mr. Litwin, do you think that if there was a blues station in Ottawa or in Canada it would have reciprocal benefits on the other radio stations that would pick up some blues music as well?
3585 MR. LITWIN: I think so. I mean I think ‑‑ I would love for this to show that there is actually a commercial viability here and, in fact, by working with people like me where I can do a lot of promotion, let alone advertising where I can really go and promote and have giveaways and make something exciting, that other people will catch on and notice that, hey, there is something there and there is something that really is engaging people in a meaningful way.
3586 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Mr. El‑Chantiry, the benefit of them moving the Bluesfest from where you were to Lebreton Flats is I live just adjacent to Lebreton Flats. So I can go to my balcony and really get a bandstand view of the music and everything. So you can invite your friends to my place if you want to.
3587 MR. EL‑CHANTIRY: I can assure you, you are going to have more friends this time. ‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
3588 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Thank you very much.
3589 MR. EL‑CHANTIRY: Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
3590 THE CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, thank you very much.
3591 MR. EL‑CHANTIRY: Thank you for the opportunity, sir.
3592 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
3593 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3594 We will now hear the presentation of Native Women's Association of Canada.
‑‑‑ Pause
3595 THE CHAIRPERSON: At your convenience.
INTERVENTION
3596 MR. JACOBS: Thank you.
‑‑‑ Native language spoken / Langue autochtone parlée
3597 MR. JACOBS: My name is ‑‑ good morning. My name is Rod Jacobs. I am from Bkejwanong First Nation.
3598 This is Mallory Whiteduck from Kitigan Zibi.
3599 We would like to take this opportunity first to thank the creator for giving us this amazing opportunity to present here today. We would also like to acknowledge and thank the Algonquin people for allowing us to speak in their traditional territory.
3600 We are here today to give our support to Capital FM who will provide around‑the‑clock coverage of news, community events and a diverse mix of music.
3601 The Native Women's Association of Canada was established in 1974. It has 13 provincial/territorial member associations.
3602 As a collective the Native Women's Association of Canada aims to enhance, promote and foster the socioeconomic culture and political wellbeing of First Nations and Métis women across Canada.
3603 In aboriginal cultures we maintain balance through a holistic model that comes from the teachings of the medicine wheel. In order to create this balance the four directions must align. The directions that we take are called vision, relationship, knowledge and movement and at the Native Women's Association of Canada how we maintain that in our day‑to‑day operations are by addressing those directions through research, education, policy and sustainability.
3604 Through this holistic approach the Native Women's Association of Canada has developed Sisters in Spirit which addresses the gender racism leading to the death and abduction of many aboriginal women.
3605 The Sisters in Spirit initiative began in 2004 and is designed to improve human rights and address the high rate of murdered and missing aboriginal women that get little if any attention from the media and the justice system. Through Sisters in Spirit the Native Women's Association of Canada will increase the public's understanding and knowledge of these issues through researching trends and root causes, through driving policy through the federal government and educating Canadians through focused strategies.
3606 One of our focused strategies is the Sisters in Spirit vigil that will take place on October 4th here in Canada's capital. This is an opportunity for recognizing and honouring all of the aboriginal women that have left us as a result of either being murdered or that remain missing and unresolved.
3607 By creating awareness through media outlets means that aboriginal people need opportunities to advance in careers that focus on communication. Capital FM is working with Algonquin College and Carleton University to provide these types of opportunities through a yearly scholarship program. This contribution will increase the number of qualified aboriginal women within broadcast journalism that will continue to create systemic change by diversifying the industry.
3608 The Native Women's Association applauds Capital FM; as the increased number of aboriginal peoples in the National Capital Region continues to grow so does the need for adequate educational solutions.
3609 When we talk about solutions the Native Women's Association of Canada continues to work on employment and training, continues to work on health issues, Sisters in Spirit and some international work.
3610 Additionally, we must address issues facing our young people and create grassroots‑driven strategies that will bridge the gap between aboriginal and non‑aboriginal peoples.
3611 The youth of NWAC participate in all activities of the organization and focus on issues affecting aboriginal young women in Canada. In particular, the Native Women's Association Youth Council presently created a violence prevention toolkit and delivers workshops across the country. This toolkit that was developed by our youth, our young women, focuses on domestic violence, sexual assault, date violence, emotional violence and bullying.
3612 With the aboriginal population growing at twice the rate of the general Canadian population and with a high percentage of the aboriginal people under 30, it is important for Canadians to hear the voice of the aboriginal young women in Canada.
3613 Aboriginal young women face increasing barriers when it comes to postsecondary education. The Native Women's Association of Canada attempts to remove these types of barriers by providing opportunities like the Helen Bassett Commemorative Scholarship. Although these scholarships are minimal they do provide young women with hope, which is what Helen Bassett attempted to do. After befriending an aboriginal artist and learning through him about the plight of aboriginal people she became passionate about the issues and had special concern for the advancement of aboriginal women.
3614 Every year the Native Women's Association of Canada Youth Council awards four scholarships in the amount of $1,000. Capital FM is making a similar contribution but on a larger scale. The Native Women's Association plans to work with Capital FM to develop this criteria that will see a number of scholarships given out in the areas of broadcast journalism and music studies. As a result, Capital FM plans to make a cash contribution of $50,000 per year for the next seven years to the Native Women's Association of Canada. These upstanding corporate citizens make Canada what it is today, diverse.
3615 In addition to advancing aboriginal women in education Capital FM will also provide the Native Women's Association of Canada with an avenue to promote our events like the Sisters in Spirit vigil that will take place on October 4th; highlight our news; give our young emerging artists a venue and give Canadians a better understanding of aboriginal women.
3616 On behalf of the Native Women's Association of Canada we support Capital FM.
3617 Thank you. Meg'wich.
3618 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Jacobs and Ms Whiteduck.
3619 Obviously, there are natives living in the Ottawa area particularly surely there are women, natives, living here. What is the interest of these women regarding the Capital radio project? Have you talked to them about what Mr. Maheu is contemplating broadcasting and will it be an attractive radio service for them?
3620 MR. JACOBS: Anytime that aboriginal people and especially women in particular get an opportunity to be part of something, which is what Capital FM is attempting to do by providing or engaging our support, it empowers them to be part of not only the overall society but to get the messages out. We found that a number of our young women do listen to this type of music and Capital FM is within their target demographic and really, because of our issues and the things that happened within our organization, it's important to have radio stations especially that are live.
3621 With Capital FM planning to go live the way they are planning 24 hours, it's important for us because murdered and missing women don't just go missing during the workday. You know, if we have something that happens at two a.m., and me as a former broadcaster know the voice tracking that takes place, you don't get that message out. We can't react. This gives us an avenue to react immediately especially in Canada's capital.
3622 THE CHAIRPERSON: You are yourself working in the broadcasting industry?
3623 MR. JACOBS: I used to ‑‑ I am a former student or a graduate of Loyalist College so I have moved on through different radio stations in Ontario and the U.S.
3624 THE CHAIRPERSON: And now you are doing some association work?
3625 MR. JACOBS: Certainly, yes. I have worked with national organizations before, really trying to ‑‑ I know that Canada has implemented steps of addressing aboriginal issues, especially through media outlets and we appreciate that. Unfortunately, the resources that many national organizations face are not able to make these types of presentations in support of radio stations or media outlets that are doing the work that Capital FM is proposing to do.
3626 And with my background in sports and broadcasting it's important for the Native Women's Association of Canada to be able to provide that voice here, especially because we are dealing with very sensitive material that at any given moment we need to react very quickly.
3627 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, are you getting support from other broadcaster organizations?
3628 MR. JACOBS: It's very difficult. The support is up and down. It's not something that's stable. Again, that comes with lack of resources and the education.
3629 When we talk about racism one of the big things that we are focusing on is educating Canadians about aboriginal women and aboriginal people in general so that we can bridge that gap that is the education component. And once we do that we feel that more radio stations like Capital FM will be approaching not only the Native Women's Association of Canada but other national aboriginal organizations or provincial and territorial organizations to make an impact.
3630 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, we already heard this morning another aboriginal ‑‑ the Aboriginal Media organization. So I am aware that there are many groups that are soliciting the broadcasting industry and always pleased to hear that they are attentive and they are responding through various means to support the activities of the various aboriginal organizations because we have great faith that we could develop your communities.
3631 MR. JACOBS: Well, we do appreciate the great support. And as a former broadcaster myself, and who knows where I will end up next because I love the industry, it is important that the diversification of the industry is there and more aboriginal people get the opportunity like Capital FM is proposing to partake in media.
3632 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Jacobs. Thank you very much, Ms Whiteduck.
3633 We will take another 15‑minute break.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1107 / Suspension à 1107
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1143 / Reprise à 1143
3634 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the presentation of Mr. Robert Du Broy in support of Fiston Kalambay Mutombo's application.
3635 You have ten minutes for your presentation. Thank you.
INTERVENTION
3636 M. DU BROY: Bonjour, Monsieur le Président, Messieurs les Commissaires et membres de l'effectif du CRTC.
3637 Je me présente devant vous deux fois de file, aujourd'hui. Alors, il faut faire la distinction entre les deux interventions.
3638 Pour commencer, je me présente en tant que citoyen privé et aussi à titre de père d'un étudiant de l'École secondaire de La Salle et étudiants de l'Université d'Ottawa et du Collège de la Cité, mes trois enfants francophones, qui aimeraient bien pour autant, vivre leur foi en français.
3639 Et ce qui aiderait beaucoup à le faire, ça serait d'avoir un poste de radio chrétien qui offrirait de la musique francophone. Et c'est ce que présente comme projet monsieur Kalambay. Alors, j'appuie à plein coeur son projet et je serais de sa cote d'écoute, à la fin, si vous octroyez cette licence.
3640 Vous avez sûrement entendu le même chant à plusieurs reprises. Les musiciens Blues revendiquent leur temps d'antenne; il y a sûrement un auditoire pour le format « AAA » et là, je viens en ajouter à votre assiette, malheureusement.
3641 C'est que les musiciens chrétiens francophones également aimeraient bien avoir une place sur les ondes. J'en connais beaucoup.
3642 Luc Dumont, en particulier; j'aime beaucoup sa musique. Je l'ai entendue à plusieurs concerts.
3643 Le trio Richard Toupin, par exemple. Richard était membre de la formation de Robert Charlebois. Et là, on l'a perdu de vue.
3644 Pourquoi? Est‑ce qu'il a perdu sa passion pour la musique?
3645 Bien, tout à fait au contraire; il chante pour le Seigneur, alors sa passion est encore plus forte. Mais on n'entend plus parler de lui parce que c'est plus de la musique populaire, dans un sens ‑‑ dans le style toujours populaire, mais les chants du Seigneur.
3646 Alors voilà, on n'entend plus parler de Richard Toupin.
3647 Localement, il y a également Jocelyn Galipeau, qui fait de la musique, qui fait des concerts. J'aimerais bien que mes enfants sachent là où il va jouer.
3648 Nous, chaque année, on va à un grand festival près de Buffalo, qui s'appelle Kingdom Bound. Et là, il y a 30 000, 40 000 fanatiques de la musique chrétienne qui y vont. Il y a parmi ces gens‑là des francophones aussi, mais ils connaissent très mal les gens qui chantent dans leur propre langue. Alors, ça serait bien d'avoir un poste ici qui offrirait cette possibilité‑là.
3649 Alors, vous avez l'occasion, peut‑être, d'offrir à la population outaouaise un poste de radio chrétienne qui mettra en vedette les chanteurs chrétiens francophones. C'est évidemment une décision difficile, parce que vous avez beaucoup de requérantes devant vous. Mais je dois souligner que cette musique‑là, ces chants‑là, ont des thèmes qui portent sur l'éternel, pas sur l'éphémère.
3650 Alors, on parle des vertus, on parle du pardon, on parle de reconnaître son Créateur et son Sauveur et on espère célébrer cette reconnaissance. On parle du respect des autres, de la discipline, du respect de soi, du don de soi, de la charité, toutes des choses qui seraient très bien pour rebâtir notre société. Un comportement responsable, par exemple.
3651 Alors, ce qui lève devant vous... Malheureusement, les autres postes véhiculent des thèmes qui ne sont pas nécessairement aussi positifs. J'ai demandé qu'on circule un article qui a paru il y a paru il y a deux mois dans le Citizen : « A third of hit songs talk about drugs and alcohol, study finds. »
3652 C'est très sérieux, l'affaire. Si on prend ces sujets‑là à la légère, ceux que... captent les enfants comme message, c'est que c'est tout à fait acceptable. Il y a un chant que j'entends chez moi de temps en temps, je n'aime pas du tout ça, mais... Je pense que ça s'appelle « On Drugs », et bien sûr que c'est drôle, mais si on ne présente pas une opinion contraire, les jeunes vont simplement accepter que c'est la norme.
3653 Et pour les deux tiers des autres grands succès, je vous présente la probabilité que ce sont des chants qui portent sur des thèmes de relations sexuelles illicites. Et encore là, nos jeunes, qui sont susceptibles à ces messages‑là tombent dans ce qu'un chrétien appellerait le péché.
3654 Mais on sait aussi que ces péchés‑là ont des conséquences sociales assez sérieuses. Alors, soit la drogue, l'alcool, la stupémanie en général ou la sensualité, ça mène à une vie de désespoir.
3655 Alors, ce que ces chants‑ci offrent, c'est l'espoir, c'est la capacité de bâtir une société sur des principaux vitaux : l'amour, l'amour de soi, le respect de soi, le respect de son autrui, mais aussi, une compréhension de son Créateur et une volonté de suivre, finalement, son Créateur.
3656 Mais je reviens à un aspect particulier, ce sont des thèmes musicaux, c'est présenté de façon positive, c'est présenté sur des airs tout à fait agréables, la qualité de la production est excellente. Et vous savez sûrement que les gens peuvent se créer un studio dans leur sous‑sol pour 10 000 $ avec l'équipement au point et ça... Et c'est de la musique incroyablement bonne.
3657 Mais là, ça prend... il faut déboucher. C'est‑à‑dire ça prend une plateforme pour ça, ça prend un poste de radio.
3658 Alors, je suis ici pour appuyer à plein coeur le projet de Fiston Kalambay et j'espère que vous allez tenir ça en compte de vue, quand viendra votre décision. Merci.
3659 LE PRÉSIDENT: Merci, Monsieur Du Broy. Peut‑être que les autres requérants qui sont ici aujourd'hui, quand ils viendront en réplique, se porteront volontaire pour jouer davantage de musique chrétienne. On verra ce qu'ils ont à nous dire.
3660 M. DU BROY: C'est souhaitable.
3661 LE PRÉSIDENT: C'est souhaitable.
3662 On va... Je pense que madame la secrétaire va vous repré...
3663 Monsieur Morin voudrait poser une question. Puis après ça, madame la secrétaire vous représentera à nouveau.
3664 CONSEILLER MORIN: Oui, vous parlez beaucoup des jeunes. Est‑ce que vous pensez que la radio est le meilleur moyen de rejoindre les jeunes, actuellement? Parce que les jeunes sont beaucoup sur l'Internet, par les temps qui courent.
3665 M. DU BROY: C'est juste. Mais ce projet‑ci est vraiment visé à toute la population, donc pas seulement les jeunes.
3666 Mais c'est une question d'offre et de demande. Si des gens... Même les artistes populaires, maintenant, qui sont distribués surtout à l'Internet, ils viennent à être connus en tant qu'artistes à la radio et les gens ont alors l'occasion d'explorer tout leur catalogue en ligne.
3667 Alors, ça prend une percée initiale, qui est souvent la radio. Même si, selon les statistiques, les jeunes...
3668 Alors que la moyenne de la population serait peut‑être de 18 heures à l'écoute de la radio ‑‑ et les jeunes, eux, en bas de quinze ans, disons ‑‑ sont plus comme aux sept ou 8 heures, peut‑être la moitié de la moyenne.
3669 ... reste que si c'est joué dans la maison, les jeunes sont exposés. Et beaucoup d'heures d'écoute sont faites sur les petits récepteurs dans la cuisine et en voyage, sur le... à la boîte et dans la voiture. Alors, en tournée familiale, ils sont exposés. Et ils viendront à connaître ces gens‑là.
3670 Mais encore là, c'est... je veux dire, je n'ai pas de statistiques devant moi et je suis certain que le même chant est chanté par plein de gens. Alors, c'est ma perception, du moins. Et dans ma famille, ça se passe de même.
3671 CONSEILLER MORIN: Merci.
3672 LE PRÉSIDENT: Merci.
3673 Madame la Secrétaire?
3674 LA SECRÉTAIRE : Merci.
3675 Now you can make your presentation, your intervention on behalf of Christian Hit Radio, the existing station. You have ten minutes.
3676 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
3677 MR. DU BROY: Thank you again. So I will say good morning once more.
3678 So I am here representing CHRI‑FM now, because although Christian Hit Radio Inc. is an applicant at these proceedings, we are an existing broadcaster in this market at 99.1 MHz.
3679 I would like to register our concerns now on the possibility that there be another broadcaster in this market at 99.7 MHz once you have rendered your decision.
3680 Our concerns are summed up in Appendix 1 of the document we gave to you at the beginning of these proceedings after the dividing page in colour, if you have that in front of you.
3681 That page shows the four other applicants, not the Christian Hit Radio Inc. applicant, for the 99.7 MHz frequency: Evanov, Information Radio, Mark Maheu and Astral. We didn't get data from all of these applicants on the 115 DBU and the 80 and 100 DBU contours, but it is a rule of thumb that where there is a 30 DBU difference in third adjacent signals there is a good likelihood of third adjacency interference.
3682 Because of particular weaknesses in our signal at 99.1 MHz in the centre of the city in particular, that 30 DBU difference in practical terms will be encountered probably more often than we are expecting just looking at the contours.
3683 We are concerned about those applications because of the weaknesses I have discussed.
3684 One of those weaknesses, if we look at Appendix 2, I have drawn a diagram for you in crayon, mostly because our consulting engineer charges by the hour, so I have done it myself. The horizontal scale is one scale, the vertical scale is a different scale, but there are two scales in each of those axes.
3685 So if you look at Appendix 2 you will see we have a transmitter at Herbert Corner, which is a little bit south of Greely. That is 21 kilometres from downtown and our average ERP is 25,300 watts.
3686 Because of the escarpment just south of the city at Hunt Club, we don't have line of sight with our signal to the city core. So that puts the whole of the densely populated city in the shadow of our signal.
3687 Now, that wouldn't usually be so terrible. It is not ideal, but it wouldn't be fatal if it weren't for the mountains around Camp Fortune. The Gatineau Hills are reflecting back our signal, and we are getting multipath interference right where the population is greatest, in the downtown area.
3688 So our signal is ‑‑ again, you have heard this song before by another broadcaster. Our signal is impaired, but it is a reality.
3689 I drive around Ottawa and I get a better reception in Perth and in Wakefield than I do in downtown Ottawa, or even where the buildings aren't so high. We are getting picket fencing, we are getting dropout, we are getting swish, hiss, static, all of those nasty things.
3690 So it is a combination of distance from Ottawa, being in the shadow of the escarpment south of Ottawa and in particular the multipathing effect from the reflections of our same signal coming back from the Gatineau Hills.
3691 Now I want to contrast that, if I may. The second picture there is Majic 100 which has a nice line of sight shot at Ottawa, right from Camp Fortune at only 12 kilometres away.
3692 The Evanov signal at 98.5 is also line of sight to Ottawa from George Street, from the downtown area, so very nice coverage. "Un bel éclairage", as we say in French of the downtown area, because it is line of sight, even though it is not at a very high power.
3693 We complained about this weakness and our concern about interference from a proposed third adjacent signal to the Commission and to Industry Canada before The Jewel was licensed at 98.5 with a transmitter on George Street.
3694 As I mentioned, it is line of sight to the densely populated area where our signal is weakest.
3695 As we feared, the day they went on the air several listeners called to complain that they could no longer receive our signal at 99.1 MHz. Although Evanov was very good at going out and resolving the complaints they received, we know that people tend to be passive; they tend not to complain. And many of our listeners just moved on. They found somewhere else on the dial.
3696 In particular, this affects receiving devices that are not highly discriminating, so boomboxes and in particular clock radios, likely where most people would listen when they wake up in the morning or listen to the radio around the breakfast table. This is where we reach people.
3697 Radio's prime time, radio's prime time is the morning drive. That is when people get up and if they hear a loud station next to ours, they will go away. And that is what has happened.
3698 The integrity of our protected coverage area has been compromised since The Jewel went on the air at 98.5, and now we face the possibility of further signal degradation by a third adjacent station at 99.7 MHz.
3699 Astral is a particular situation because they have chosen to co‑site their proposed transmitter with CHRI‑FM's transmitter in Greely, which is admirable.
3700 Just as a footnote to that ‑‑ and I know we haven't filed an official intervention against, but the signal they are proposing is twice the power of CHRI‑FM's and a lot of our listeners are in Greely. When I go to Parkway Road Pentecostal Church, their parking lot is full of CHRI‑FM bumper stickers, more than I see at any other church. And they are in the shadow of our transmitter at Herbert Corners.
3701 Again, with a radio receiver that doesn't discriminate very well between signals like a clock radio, having a station twice the power of ours at a third adjacent location I think will be problematic.
3702 So I ask that you take into consideration Christian Hit Radio Inc. as an existing broadcaster when you make your licensing decision.
3703 I thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission, for allowing me to share these concerns.
3704 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Du Broy.
3705 Obviously we also rely on our own engineers to appraise these concerns. I know that multipath is surely a big issue everywhere and for everybody. The only thing I could say at this stage is that we have been briefed before coming to the hearing and we will surely pay close attention to these issues during our deliberations.
3706 Thank you very much.
3707 MR. DU BROY: Thank you, sir.
3708 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Can I just ask you one question?
3709 In reading over your interventions on all three parties, or to all three parties, you state in paragraph 2, I think, in each one of them ‑‑ and I will quote:
"We believe we lost many listeners who did not seek the remedy of asking The Jewel ..."
3710 Or IIS, or whoever.
"... to put filters on their receivers' antennas." (As read)
3711 Where does the onus lie in asking for that?
3712 MR. DU BROY: That lies with the listener, I would imagine. Certainly Evanov has been very responsive to the complaints they received, admittedly.
3713 One of the challenges is the last one in rule is a fine rule in principle, because the last one in should resolve difficulties experienced by these broadcasters who are already established. But in practice, the last one in rule doesn't always help existing broadcasters because we also have lost out on potential listeners who have moved to Ottawa since then and who couldn't find us on the dial.
3714 Anyway, I'm not exactly answering your question, but the onus is on the existing listener.
3715 Unfortunately, having a third adjacent interference situation does compromise future listeners.
3716 COMMISSIONER KATZ: What is involved in putting filters on receivers' antennas? Is it a physical labour‑intensive process?
3717 MR. DU BROY: There are a few approaches to remedying the problem. A broadcaster like Evanov could send an engineer out and either put a filter in line to filter out, in this example, 98.5. So it would be called a notch filter. It allows other frequencies but not that frequency.
3718 Another common solution is to replace the existing receiving unit with a digital one or something far more expensive and discriminating so they could find the third adjacent station more easily. There would probably be a little bit of help setting up the antenna, maybe a dipole antenna near a window so that the reception could be better.
3719 COMMISSIONER KATZ: So if people had one of those dial radios, alarm clock radios or whatever it is, if they went out and bought a digital radio that would solve the problem?
3720 MR. DU BROY: If they are able. I gave you the example of Zita Hagen yesterday who is 78 years old. She is not going to do that. She will ask a nephew maybe, can you go to The Source, get a digital receiver, get a dipole antenna, put it in the window and then I can pull in my favourite station again.
3721 The solution is possible, but not everyone is capable of implementing it.
3722 COMMISSIONER KATZ: In Jewel's response to your intervention, dated November 15, 2007, in paragraph 3 they state:
"There is no reason CHRI could not relocate to a downtown location."
3723 Is that a true statement?
3724 MR. DU BROY: No. I disagree profoundly with that.
3725 There was a misunderstanding I think on the part of The Jewel as to our purpose for applying for 99.7. It is not to supplement the coverage of our existing signal; it is for whole new station.
3726 So offering as a possibility relocating to George Street is not an option.
3727 As I mentioned in Appendix 2, our ERP is over 25,000 watts out of Greely and we are getting coverage ‑‑ we have listeners in Wakefield, we have listeners in Winchester, in Chesterville, we have listeners in Perth and Smiths Falls. We would not be able to reach those people from a building top location in downtown Ottawa.
3728 We do not want to betray those listeners by relocating our transmitter. So that's not a practical solution.
3729 COMMISSIONER KATZ: Okay. Thank you.
3730 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Du Broy.
3731 Madam Secretary...?
3732 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3733 We will now hear the presentation of CFRC‑FM Radio Queen's University.
‑‑‑ Pause
3734 THE SECRETARY: Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
3735 MR. BEERS: Yes. Good morning. Thank you for allowing me to address you in person today.
3736 My name is Eric Beers and I am the Operations Officer at CFRC 101.9 FM broadcasting from Kingston.
3737 I requested to appear today to address the applications for the use of 101.9 in Ottawa. Note that we are not opposed to the creation of a new station. However, we ask you to consider the impact of any such proposed station at 101.9 FM on adjacent markets, including our own.
3738 We are here to introduce CFRC, discuss the application submitted by the Corus Radio Company and Frank Torres on behalf of a corporation yet to be incorporated and propose solutions to our concerns.
3739 We have no objection to the application by Astro Media.
3740 CFRC is the oldest university affiliated station in Canada and one of the oldest stations of any kind, commencing broadcasting from Queen's in 1922. CFRC has been a consistent developer of Canadian cultural talent, including Lorne Greene, Atlantis Film's Michael MacMillan, Shelagh Rogers, TSN's Chris Cuthbert, Corus' Chris Harvey, CHUM's Matthew Bisson and Ottawa Morning's Stuart Mills.
3741 In doing so, we have fulfilled one of the roles that the CRTC envisions for campus‑based community radio, ultimately benefiting commercial broadcasters and the CBC.
3742 Recently we began a community funding drive to help make up budget shortfalls. Despite predictions of results from $2,000 to $5,000 our first effort produced $11,000; our second $16,000; and our most recent campaign yielded an impressive $21,000.
3743 Of this amount, listeners living in Kingston's outlying areas donated approximately 15 per cent.
3744 Kingston's amalgamated borders have a population of 117,000. We are the only community‑based campus radio station in an over 100 kilometre radius from Kingston. CFRC provides listeners with a distinct voice, offering a diverse range of music, news, spoken word, entertainment and sports programming that is 86 per cent locally produced, volunteer produced. This includes programs featuring local music and news, native issues, women's issues and social justice. We have a volunteer base of over 130 individuals. CFRC is an important source of local French and third language content, including programs in Portuguese, Spanish and Cantonese.
3745 While this essential content might be widely available in larger urban areas, it is seldom delivered in rural areas. CFRC is the only local source of this content and Kingston's outlying communities benefit from CFRC's commitment to broadcast it. Without us, these linguistic communities would have no representation in the local broadcast spectrum.
3746 It has been a long‑standing goal of CFRC to increase our broadcasting power. An increase would offer protection for our listeners currently falling outside our protected circle. It would respond to continued growth of the Queen's community and the corresponding increase in geographic area its members inhabit.
3747 It is important to allow CFRC's protected parameters to increase to ensure that this community has access to CFRC. We are concerned that the applications in these proceedings could limit our ability to achieve this.
3748 CFRC started fundraising to achieve this increase four and a half years ago. However, as a not‑for‑profit corporation, we must approach this as a long‑term project. We ask that the Commission recognize the inherent disadvantage in considering these applications.
3749 I will now turn to our concern with the Corus application.
3750 If approved with the proposed technical parameters, Corus' station will limit access to our signal for a percentage of our current listening audience through signal interference in the areas northeast of Kingston. This audience will not have access to any other community broadcaster. Corus' revised briefs show the proposed interfering contour coming within 1.5 kilometres of CFRC's protected area. While meeting Industry Canada requirements and not interfering with CFRC's protected contours, this will still deny a portion of CFRC's existing listenership access to our signal.
3751 Communities in the region include Westport, Lansdowne, Sharbot Lake, whose struggle with uranium mining developers CFRC has extensively covered, Newboro, Tichborne and Charleston Lake.
3752 Lacking the resources to survey the surrounding area, we informed our listeners of these proceedings and their possible impact on our signal. The resulting letters to the CRTC from listeners outside our protected area confirm our listenership in these areas and indicate their appreciation of CFRC and concern over this issue.
3753 Our listeners received notice only 10 days before the submission deadline, so we regard the 12 submissions as significant.
3754 These included two from businesses located outside of Kingston and one from former CRTC Chair, John Meisel from Tichborne, Ontario.
3755 We also heard from other listeners who encountered difficulty with the submission process.
3756 Corus' April 28th reply to our intervention states that they received a number of opposing interventions from individuals who are under the mistaken belief that the Corus radio Ottawa/Gatineau proposal will interfere with CFRC. In fact, nine of the 12 letters at issue represent people living in the areas whose reception of CFRC could be eliminated by Corus' proposal.
3757 Corus' initial letter to Industry Canada referred to its original area of interference as occurring in an area of little or no population. In fact, this area includes towns, villages and populated agricultural land. These people constitute a valuable part of CFRC's listenership. If they are economically insignificant to Corus, then it should not be averse to making technical amendments to grant these listeners continued access to CFRC.
3758 Corus' January 25th letter to the CRTC states that this signal ‑‑ their signal ‑‑ could be significantly improved through a subsequent technical amendment that would improve the 3 mV per meter contour in Ottawa West, western Québec, as well as Ottawa South. If Corus is relying on future technical amendments to ensure their economic viability, there is potential for even greater negative impact on CFRC listeners as the amendments could affect areas northeast of Kingston.
3759 We hope a compromise can be reached so that listeners in these areas don't lose the only community radio service available to them.
3760 We also hope that Corus understands the value of our service and will express a desire to work cooperatively so that our service and theirs can coexist without negative repercussions for our listeners. We have approached Corus about this but have been unable to agree on a solution.
3761 To address the concerns, we suggest the following solutions. If the Commission decides to grant Corus a licence, we request either (a) the inclusion by the Commission of a condition of licence requiring Corus to:
3762 (i) work cooperatively with CFRC to ensure both stations can coexist with minimal impact on CFRC's existing listeners and consider decreasing its power output in the direction of Kingston if that occurs;
3763 (ii) refrain from opposing a future power increase by CFRC and be amenable to minor technical amendments, if needed, to enable this upgrade to occur; or an explicit statement by the Commission in its licensing decision that strongly encourages Corus to take the above‑noted actions.
3764 With regard to Frank Torres' application, we are happy to note that the revised briefs addressed most of our concerns with their original application.
3765 Our remaining concerns are as follows: Since Frank Torres' application did not submit comments on the effects of its revised technical parameters on its original business plan:
3766 (1) we are concerned that the decrease in the size of the applicant's proposed listening audience will eventually force the applicant to apply for a power increase to ensure its financial viability;
3767 (2) any future power increase could renew CFRC's original concerns about interference in the area outside of Kingston.
3768 Frank Torres (OBCI), if licensed, has offered this in writing. Frank Torres (OBCI) would be more than willing to consult CFRC and its engineers in the event of a future power upgrade, the goal being not to interfere with the potential power increase by CFRC and resultant possible interference between Kingston and Ottawa.
3769 In addition, they have offered to direct some of their CCD contributions to us if the Commission does not accept their original plans.
3770 Their offer would alleviate the concerns I described, provided consultation is approached cooperatively and in good faith. But we ask for the Commission's support to assure CFRC that it will be upheld. Without this, CFRC as a not‑for‑profit entity would not have the means to enforce a private promise and would have no recourse if Frank Torres (OBCI) did not follow through.
3771 So if the Commission chooses to award a licence to Frank Torres (OBCI), we request an explicit statement in the licensing decision that strongly encourages Frank Torres to fulfil their stated commitment to cooperate with CFRC, as I have described.
3772 With regard to both Corus and Frank Torres, we also ask that the Commission strongly encourage the successful applicant to provide financial assistance to CFRC to achieve a power increase in order to protect its existing listeners and ensure that compatible technical parameters can be found.
3773 The Broadcasting Act states that a healthy Canadian broadcasting system is comprised of public, commercial and community broadcasters. The CRTC has frequently stated its support for community broadcasters and noted the important role we play in Canadian society. Given spectrum scarcity, we believe the Commission should be proactive in maintaining a healthy community broadcasting sector.
3774 If underfunded community broadcasters must compete for airspace with commercial applicants without strong support from the CRTC, we fear the further marginalization and disappearance of a valuable public resource.
3775 We hope you understand our concerns and ensure that the licensing decisions for the Ottawa market will not adversely impact the work of CFRC.
3776 I would like to thank you for our consideration.
3777 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Morin.
3778 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Yes. I understand that your main concern is with Corus or both?
3779 MR. BEERS: I would say that our main concern is with the Corus application at this time, yes.
3780 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Do you think that there is a solution which is viable, technically viable, and at what cost?
3781 MR. BEERS: As I have sort of stated in the presentation, I think the solution is simply a pledge to work cooperatively if problems come up. We can't know ‑‑ I am not here to assert that problems will happen, but they are potentially there.
3782 And if they come up, I suspect that we could work together to try to find some solutions.
3783 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Especially as the future is concerned, because you want to increase your power eventually.
3784 MR. BEERS: We would like to do that, yes, and have begun saving money for that, yes.
3785 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Is it a real possibility?
3786 MR. BEERS: Yes, it is a real possibility.
3787 COMMISSIONER MORIN: You were talking about some population who will be affected eventually if you increase your power.
3788 What is the population numbers of those?
3789 MR. BEERS: I don't have the resources to put together population numbers for these areas. In the context of community broadcasting, these types of things are not typically at issue for us. Our role in the broadcasting spectrum is to service the underserviced and to service the areas and the people that it is not economically viable for commercial radio or that the public broadcaster isn't servicing.
3790 So, you know, numbers are not ‑‑ population numbers are not an essential thing for us because we are a not‑for‑profit corporation.
3791 COMMISSIONER MORIN: But it is important certainly to ‑‑
3792 MR. BEERS: Certainly. I mean, I listed the towns that popped up to me, towns where I know people have approached me that they live in and that they enjoy our signal.
3793 I didn't include Mallorytown, but we have one letter from a gentleman in Mallorytown.
3794 You know, these towns range in population from 3,000 to 800. They are speckled all around the area.
3795 COMMISSIONER MORIN: So at the end the population of all those little towns?
3796 MR. BEERS: I wouldn't estimate or guess, but maybe 15,000, 20,000 people.
3797 COMMISSIONER MORIN: Okay. Thank you very much.
3798 MR. BEERS: Thank you.
3799 THE CHAIRPERSON: The only comment I could make is regarding your paragraph 14 where you are concerned about the possibility that Frank Torres eventually seeks an increase in power.
3800 It has to be approved by the Commission, so it would mean that they would have to apply, get certification from Industry Canada and you would be obviously warned that they have done such a filing and there will be a public process.
3801 So that is a potential eventuality. The Commission cannot take that into consideration in its deliberations.
3802 MR. BEERS: I understand.
3803 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Beers.
3804 MR. BEERS: Thank you.
3805 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
3806 We will now hear the intervention from The Jewel.
‑‑‑ Pause
3807 THE CHAIRPERSON: When you are ready, Mr. Evanov.
INTERVENTION
3808 MR. EVANOV: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Commissioners, Commission staff.
3809 Ottawa Media Inc. is here on behalf of The Jewel 98.5 today to intervene against the Astral application for Eve.
3810 My name is Bill Evanov and here with me today is Carmela Laurignano and Debra MacLaughlin from Strategic Inc.
3811 Contrary to Astral's claims during their presentation in‑chief, Eve will have a significant negative impact on The Jewel. Proof of this negative impact can be found both in Astral's own application as filed, as well as the review of four weeks of spin data submitted to BBS.
3812 Let's start with Astral's own filing.
3813 As part of its application, Astral filed a sample playlist for Eve. A copy of that playlist is attached to the intervention.
3814 As you will see, the playlist identifies 36 songs which Eve would play during different parts of the day, morning and afternoon drive and evening. Thirty‑three of those 36 songs are currently played on The Jewel. This represents 92 per cent duplication in songs, a far cry from the 20 per cent duplication Astral referred to in its appearance before the Commission.
3815 In addition, The Jewel also undertook a BDS analysis over a time period spanning four weeks, April 9th to May 5th, 2008. Using the submitted playlist from the Eve application, we determined that over a four week period the duplication between The Jewel and the Astral proposal on tracks only was over 50 per cent.
3816 Again, this is a far cry from Astral's claim of 20 per cent duplication, a claim that Astral admits was based on a meagre six‑hour sample of The Jewel.
3817 What is particularly important to note about a duplication analysis on a service like The Jewel is that unlike chart driven formats, duplication on The Jewel must be examined over time. When we look at the proposal from Eve, we can see that just on The Jewel alone, not taking into account crossover with Majic, duplication with The Jewel occurs for the vast majority of the selections they propose.
3818 The Jewel was also described by Astral as being an exclusively adult standard station. Again, this was based on Astral's limited six‑hour snapshot of The Jewel.
3819 But when we turn to BDS data to get a more accurate reliable picture, using the Era analysis available through BDS software, we can demonstrate conclusively how little of what we play on The Jewel is in fact adult standards.
3820 Over the same four‑week period, April 9th to May 5th, The Jewel spins were divided across Eras as follows: pre‑1969 represented 10 per cent; the 70s, 32 per cent; the 80s, 14 per cent; the 90s, 16 per cent; and 2000 and plus, the newer, almost 30 per cent.
3821 We can refine this even further using the percentage breakdown as between adult standards and other genres of music. Again, from the same dataset we find that only 13.7 per cent are adult standards; 3.4 per cent country rock; 11.8 per cent ‑‑ sorry, 33.4 per cent are country and 11.8 per cent rock; and pop, AC, AC Gold is 71 per cent.
3822 Clearly limiting the definition of The Jewel to adult standards is to ignore the vast majority of our playlist.