ARCHIVÉ - 2 December 2001
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Offrir un contenu dans les deux langues officielles
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Afin de rencontrer certaines des exigences de cette loi, les procès-verbaux du Conseil seront dorénavant bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience et la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience.
CANADIAN
RADIO-TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TELECOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
Public Hearing/Audience publique
Call for applications for a broadcasting licence to carry
on a television programming undertaking to serve all or any one of Toronto,
Hamilton and Kitchener, Ontario/Appel de demandes de licence de radiodiffusion
visant l'exploitation d'une entreprise de programmation de télévision pour
desservir chacune des villes Toronto, Hamilton et Kitchener (Ontario) ou l'une
d'entre elles
-----------
VOLUME 5
-----------
HELD
AT: TENUE
A:
Hamilton Convention Centre Centre de conférence
d'Hamilton
Hamilton,
Ontario Hamilton, Ontario
December 7, 2001 7
décembre 2001
BEFORE/DEVANT:
A. Wylie Chairperson/Président
M. Wilson Commissioner/Conseiller
B. Cram Commissioner/Conseiller
J. Pennefather Commissioner/Conseiller
S. Langford Commissioner/Conseiller
_
_ _
D. Rhéaume Legal
Counsel/
Conseiller
juridique
M. Amodeo Hearing Leader/
Chef d'audience
P. Cussons Hearing
Manager/Gérant
Secretary/Secretaire
DISCLAIMER
TRANSCRIPTS
In order to meet the requirements of the Official
Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual
as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the
public hearings, and the Table of Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the
recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either
of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant
at the public hearing.
TRANSCRIPTION
Afin de
rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les
procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page
couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à
l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois,
la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et,
en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux
langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à
l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications
Commission
Conseil
de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript/Transcription
Public Hearing/Audience publique
Index of
Proceedings/Index de la séance
Paragraph
Opening remarks by Ms. A. Wylie/ 3515-3517
Remarges d-ouverture par Mme. A. Wylie
Intervention by Ken Wallis, Mohawk College/ 3518-3533
Intervention par Ken Wallis, Mohawk College
Intervention by June Callwood/ 3534-3559
Intervention par June Callwood
Intervention by Arti Chandaria, South Asian
Advisory Committee/ Intervention par Arti 3560-3578
Chandaria, South Asian Advisory Committee
Intervention by Dr. Joseph Wong/ 3579-3606
Intervention par Dr. Joseph Wong
Intervention by Peter Rehak 3607-3649
Intervention par Peter Rehak
Intervention by Elitha Peterson Productions/ 3650-3682
Intervention par Elitha Peterson Productions
Intervention by Redcanoe Productions/ 3683-3720
Intervention par Redcanoe Productions
Intervention by Sandra Savelli/ 3721-3750
Intervention par Sandra Savelli
Intervention by Brickworks Communications/ 3751-3774
Intervention par Brickworks Communications
Intervention
by Cineflix Productions/ 3775-3818
Intervention
par Cineflix Productions
Intervention
by Reel Time Images Inc./ 3819-3841
Intervention
par Reel Time Images Inc.
Intervention
by Breakthrough Films/ 3842-3864
Intervention par Breakthrough Films
Intervention
by John Evans/ 3865-3880
Intervention
par John Evans
Intervention
by Artword Theatre/ 3881-3914
Intervention par Artword Theatre
Intervention by Ted Nolan/ 3915-3940
Intervention par Ted Nolan
Intervention
by Nomadic Pictures/ 3941-3960
Intervention par Nomadic Pictures
Intervention
by Solo Enterprises/ 3961-3970
Intervention par Solo Enterprises
Intervention
by Joan Schafer/ 3971-3990
Intervention par Joan Schafer
Intervention
by Yee Hong Community Wellness
Foundation/Intervention
par Yee Hong Community 3991-4010
Wellness Foundation
Intervention
by Desalegn Eyobe/ 4011-4025
Intervention par Desalegn Eyobe
Intervention
by Evergreen Communications/ 4026-4046
Intervention par Evergreen Communications
Closing Remarks by Ms. A. Wylie/ 4047-4049 Remarques De
Clôture par Mme A. Wylie
---
Upon commencing at 0838/L'audience débute à 0838
3515
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Order please. Good morning and
welcome back to phase 3 of the hearings.
We will now be hearing intervenors in the support of the various
applicants. I would like to point out
before we start that we may not engage in discussions or conversations or
questions with supporting intervenors particularly if their reasons for support
are clear. I remind intervenors that
their written interventions remain on the record and their presentations today
are transcribed and form part of the transcript, and that we are interested in
hearing you. If we don't engage in
discussion, it's more a case of trying to hear as many of you as possible in
the time we have. So with that caveat,
I invite the Secretary to invite the first intervenor.
3516
MR. CUSSONS: Thank
you Madam Chairperson. I would like to
make a couple of announcements. First
of all, we now have three intervenors who had hoped to be us at the hearing but
are no longer able to join us, specifically Sampradaya Dance Creations, Prem
Sarin and Fil Fontaine. Of course, we
still have their written interventions on the public record.
3517
I should also that had we will not entirely be following the
original order in the agenda. Various
intervenors have had scheduling conflicts and so on and, of course, we've tried
to accommodate them, so there are some changes that have happened since the
agenda was published last week. Having
said that, I would like to invite our first intervenor of the day, Mr. Ken
Wallis of Mohawk College, please.
3518
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Good morning Mr. Wallace, and welcome to our hearing.
3519
MR. WALLIS: Thank
you. To help move things along, this
will not be long presentation.
3520
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Until the bell rings.
INTERVENTION
BY KEN WALLIS, MOHAWK COLLEGE/
INTERVENTION
PAR KEN WALLIS, MOHAWK COLLEGE:
3521
MR. WALLIS: Good
morning Madam Chair, Commissioners. My
name is Ken Wallis and I'm coordinator of the television broadcasting and
communications program at Mohawk College here in Hamilton. Mohawk strongly supports CanWest Global's
proposal for "Purely Canadian."
Basically, I am here to show support for their show '101' which is a
proposed show that would be produced by post-secondary students.
3522
The concept of a half hour weekly show produced by media
students in post-secondary would provide a practical outlet for students to
showcase their abilities and talents.
When students know that productions will be aired, they put a much more
concentrated efforts in their productions because they know their efforts will
be seen in the real world. It is a huge
opportunity for students in all secondary institutions.
3523
Madam Chair, there were several questions that you asked on
one day about this concept that I would like to address. First of all, the issue of financial backing
came up and how much or how involved CanWest Global would be involved in
it. I would like to say in many cases
cost would be minimal to Global simply because many colleges have the equipment
and the facilities needed. In essence,
Mohawk could certainly jump in and contribute to this. Mohawk's television program is basically a
practical, hands-on program that basically concentrates on production. Currently we have over 260 students in our
television program, and if you add in 110 broadcast journalism students, we
have over 370 media students that would be available to work on these
productions.
3524
There may, indeed, be some nominal cost to Global, but
basically Mohawk is a very well-heeled program that could participate in this
show. We have over 10 edit suites, both
linear and non-linear, and we have 15 field cameras. We use broadcast quality formats with JVC Pro Digital and Betacam
SP. We currently have two studios for
production and plans are in the works for a third studio.
3525
Currently, we produce four magazine shows a week that are
very similar in concept to 101, plus numerous other productions such as news
and interview shows. What we do now
would be an easy fit into Global's program, 101.
3526
Madam Chair, you also raised the question about
quality. Students are not
professionals, we all know that. Then
again, they are only with one step away from being professionals. With the help of faculty, who have all
worked the industry, I can assure broadcast quality productions are the
goal. As an example of this, every year
Mohawk's TV students produce a show called Mohawk Media Fest which airs on CH
TV. We also have been chosen as the
college to produce the Broadcast Educators Awards that air on TV Ontario.
3527
If CanWest Global were to be granted this licence we are
certainly willing accommodate the production of 101, and I am sure all other
colleges and universities would say the same.
One other note of significance is Global's desire for some local
programming. It could lead to
co-operative productions with our college.
We have a full-blown mobile with digital recording facilities. Currently, we cover such events such as the
B'nai Birth Celebrity Sports Dinner, as well as the CYO Celebrity Sports
Dinner. These are just the two examples
of the types of shows that we produce that could certainly air on Purely
Canadian. Purely Canadian would provide
a strong incentive for the students at Mohawk College and at all other colleges
and the universities.
3528
In closing, I would just like to say that it's with solid
enthusiasm that Mohawk College supports CanWest Global's application. I would also like to congratulate them on
having the foresight to include a show produced by post-secondary
students. Their inclusion of the 101
show demonstrates that they're willing to foster post-secondary students who
will be our future Canadian broadcasters.
Thank you.
3529
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Thank you, Mr. Wallis.
Commissioner Pennefather, please.
3530
MS. PENNEFATHER:
Thank you, Mr. Wallis. Mr.
Wallis, I do have one small question for you.
I was just curious -- you did answer some of the questions and thank you
for that, some of the practical information is helpful. Can you tell just you us in the student body
what the breakdown is, men, women, and the cultural diversity of the group?
3531
MR. WALLIS:
Sometimes it's hard to assess that because we don't really look at
that. Speaking from experience, I have
been at the college 15 years now and when I started, males certainly
outnumbered females. It's broken down
now to almost a 50/50 breakthrough and we are seeing more and more females that
are interested in the technical side of the operations as well, which is very
encouraging.
3532
MS. PENNEFATHER:
Thank you, very much.
3533
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Thank you, Mr. Wallis. We were a
bit worried yesterday because a graduate from Ryerson started a production
company called Bigfeller Productions, and he didn't seem to have any plan to
have a "Little Women" division. Thank
you for coming. We appreciate you
taking time out of your busy schedule to see us. Mr. Secretary, please.
3534
MR. CUSSONS: Madam
Chair, our next intervenor is Ms. June Callwood.
3535
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Good morning, Ms. Callwood.
3536
MS. CALWOOD: I
apologize for not having a written brief I hope you will permit me to just --
3537
THE CHAIRPERSON:
That's good; it keeps us on our toes.
INTERVENTION
BY JUNE CALLWOOD/
INTERVENTION
PAR JUNE CALLWOOD:
3538
MS. CALWOOD: Thank
you. You might think because I have
been a journalist for a long time that I am here with some special interest,
but I'm not. 60 years ago, when I had a
job at the Toronto Star, it only lasted for two weeks and I was fired. But it was fortunate for me because I went
to the Globe and Mail where I got a job and married a man on the Globe and Mail
and 50 years later the two of us were back at the Globe and Mail with columns,
and we intend to go back to the Globe every 50 years. So I am not primarily a Toronto Star journalist.
3539
I am here because I like the programming that's been offered
by the Star, but I would like to address something I think more important than
the programming that's promised. As an
aside, I was on the founding board of WTN Foundation and I am extremely
distressed at what has happened to WTN.
So I want to talk about integrity.
3540
I am in a position to know quite a bit about the integrity
of the Toronto Star. I have witnessed
the Star's care of the community, knowledge of the community, its social
conscience, which I always thought the fifth estate represented - it's the way
I think the fifth estate should operate and the Star's prime example of how
that is done. They truthful
people. They wear their heart on the
sleeve but the sleeve is cashmere because they're very smart business people,
they know what they're doing and they deliver.
These are not snake oil salesmen that you have seen before you promising
a great deal and breaking their promises, which we have seen a lot -- too much
of.
3541
Community programming at the Star would really have a
resonance. I was -- a fast example, I
don't know what 10 minutes is. A fast
example community programming City, which is very joyful and fun to watch, I
was once doing a fundraiser for something and it was a disaster, there were 16
people in the audience, City arrived.
The man was sweaty and young and underpaid and said, what is it that
you're doing? We're fundraiser for this
event, this cause. And what is the
program? Well, it's going to be
stand-up comics and he said, how much do you expect to raise? And in the background there is 16 people and
I said, close to a million, and he said good, thanks. Back to the studio. Now,
that's -- that's very entertaining community programming, but it doesn't
represent substance and I think the Star does and -- two fast stories, I hope
fast.
3542
A group of us decided to protest the cuts to the CBC. I think we called ourselves, "Save the
CBC". We had no money and nowhere to
start. We phoned John Honderich. John, we're going to try to save the CBC
cuts and would you give us free office space and he said sure, 17 floor is
yours. It was empty, big space. John, we would like some desks and maybe
telephones? Sure. John, it would help us if we had computers
and printers and he said sure. We
didn't save the CBC but the Star certainly enabled us to try.
3543
And very recently -- I am now involved in child poverty, I
am a champion of lost causes -- I asked John Honderich, we have a full page ad
of 51 Companions of the Order of Canada who are concerned about child poverty,
would you give us a break on the price?
And he said sure. I don't know
any major player in communications in Canada who would have said yes to either
of those requests. I have been turned
down by all of them, so I have some authority in that field.
3544
These are - this is a new voice and a voice with a
conscience, these are honorable, decent people and you don't see many, I don't
think, like that. Thank you.
3545
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cram?
3546
MS. CRAM: Thank
you. I am the Regional Commissioner for
Manitoba/Saskatchewan and as a result certainly know about WTN. And part of the problem was the same thing
you're talking about; that WTN performed very well.
3547
MS. CALWOOD: Yes, it
did.
3548
MS. CRAM: The
Foundation performed very well.
3549
MS. CALWOOD: Really well.
3550
MS. CRAM: As a
consequence it appears there is no necessity for us to enforce the continuation
of that by what's called a condition of licence. Which now means there is nothing upon which we can stand to
enforce its continuation.
3551
MS. CALWOOD: You got
taken.
3552
MS. CRAM: Well the
lesson I learned is that honorable people apply for licences, honorable people
with integrity apply for licences, and the licence gets sold. And so as much as I am certainly not
questioning anybody's integrity at all, but how would you suggest if we granted
the licence to Torstar that we would guard against it being sold and - as I
normally use the term - morphed into something other than what was first
envisaged to be?
3553
MS. CALWOOD: This is
a low-cost solution. The strings on the
licence go with the sale. And cannot be
-- cannot be dissolved.
3554
MS. CRAM: So we
would have to impose conditions of licence to ensure --
3555
MS. CALWOOD:
Caveats, is that what are they called?
3556
MS. CRAM: They're
called conditions of licence here. I know in other parts of law it would be
caveats. So would you suggest that if
we granted the licence, that the conditions of licence would be very strenuous
in that regard?
3557
MS. CALWOOD: I would
hope so. This is a vulnerable time and
our communications industry needs to be more -- as concerned with delivering a
service to the public as it is with profits.
3558
MS. CRAM: Thank you very much.
3559
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Thank you Ms. Callwood especially at this early morning time. Mr. Secretary, please.
3560
MR. CUSSONS: Thank
you, Madam Chair. I would now like to call on the South Asian Advisory
Committee, Ms. Arti Chandaria to present their intervention, please.
3561
THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Ms. Chandaria.
INTERVENTION
BY ARTI CHANDARIA, SOUTH ASIAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE/INTERVENTION PAR ARTI
CHANDARIA, SOUTH ASIAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE:
3562
MS. CHANDARIA: Good
morning. Madam Chair and Commissioners,
I thank you very much for this opportunity to speak before the CRTC. My name is Arti Chandaria. I am a founding member of the South Asian
Advisory Committee at the Royal Ontario Museum, and I also serve on the ROM
foundation's board of governors. I am a
supporter and advocate for arts and culture and have facilitated public and
broad community forums like the ROM to showcase community talents. I also serve on the Board of Trustees for
Bishop Strachan School, a private girl's school in Toronto.
3563
Since migrating to Canada 15 years ago, my goals have been
to fuse the Indian and Western views of art, culture, and education into a view
vibrant paradigm; to ensure that the next generation of South Asian Canadians
have an opportunity to understand and appreciate their heritage and culture; to
support and advise on multiculturalism and diversity. Through my involvement with several Canadian institutions, I have
been able to do ground-breaking work to achieve these goals.
3564
I am here today for a very important reason. I believe there is some ground-breaking work
that can be undertaken in the Canadian broadcasting system to make it truly
inclusive of the community it serves.
Each day as we make our decisions, as you, distinguished panel, are
doing today, we have to make choices.
These choices help us move towards our goals to the bigger picture of a
paradigm. My choice to speak with you
is my role and responsibility as member of, and as an advocate for the South
Asian community which I take very seriously.
I believe that what I have to say will be helpful and important to you
in the choice you make in this licence hearing. My choice and endorsement is for Hometown Television.
3565
When I heard about
Torstar's Hometown Television and its vision and plan from Mr. Galloway what
stood out to me was a carefully planned community strategy of local
inclusivity, particularly the Community Advisory Forum. It was explained to me that this advisory
body will guide the management of Hometown Television in the effective
production and presentation of programs truly reflecting the local
community. I find this very
exciting. This is exactly what we have
been waiting for. I have, personally,
experienced the positive possibilities of such advisory bodies in enhancing the
representation in the community. And
where there is a will, there is a way.
3566
Let me give you an example of this in context of the Royal
Ontario Museum. In 1995, we had a dream
to nurture the South Asian cultures by creating a permanent presence of South
Asia at the ROM. The success of this
initiative was due to the partnership forged by the Museum and the
community. What was just an idea six
years later became a reality with these important achievements: the establishment of the Friends of South
Asia; more than 60 public programs showcased; more than $3 million fundraised;
the establishment of a permanent foundation gallery and an endowment for the
curatorship of South Asian civilizations.
The announcement for this curator's appointment was released this week,
Wednesday. I will be interested to see
which media will cover this story and how they will portray it. I pondered this because this partnership at
the ROM has now been fully told. You,
and many others, would therefore not know that it brought people of all South
Asian countries together. The funds
that were raised from the community did not come from the wealthy few, it came
from a child parting with his $20 allowance, to religious institutions who
historically only take money. The
community rose to the occasion because of the pride that came upon them to know
that their culture and story of its civilization would become available for all
Canadians to experience and enjoy.
3567
Hometown Television may be a relatively new player in
broadcasting, but they're not new in their rule and commitment to local
community. As I said earlier, when I
heard the facts, the statistics and Hometown Television's broad programming
range, that integrity of the commitment was real to me. I know this rare story of the South Asian's
community contribution to the ROM, a major cultural institution in Canada, and
the story behind the story would be given full coverage on Hometown Television,
be it as a documentary or the non-news programs like My Town, Talk Time or
Local Heroes.
3568
Hometown Television plans to bring to the three diverse
regions of Toronto, Hamilton and Kitchener a new voice and an opportunity to be
part of the community through reflection, participation and real job
opportunities. I know that Torstar is
deeply connected to the community and understands the value of
partnership. I strongly believe that
Hometown 's commitment to local programming and local content will show a
balanced reflection of the larger community.
3569
I know that Hometown Television's proposal for a local
station is in the English language which is a shared common denominator within
the South Asian communities as well as the larger community. It will bring the cosmopolitan nature of the
entire community to light. The English
language can and will serve as a bridge among communities for sharing ideas and
culture.
3570
For me, the Toronto Star has been a trusted lens of the
community. It has provided me with a
deeper understanding of the local and larger community in which I live. Because of the Toronto Star, when I was new
in this country I became more knowledgeable about the crime wave in the
Jane/Finch area, the taste of Danforth and Greek town and the valley in
Jagar. I can imagine this
cross-cultural exchange transformed into fair, accurate and innovative programs
on Hometown Television. I expect to see
a broad range of programming.
3571
For my own personal interest, I expect I would see the story
of 10,000 Villages, a co-operative run by the Mennonite group in the Kitchener
area and how they work successfully with retailing gifts and crafts from their
counterparts in Africa, and countries like India and elsewhere. Also as a survivor of two episodes of
cancer, I hope to see a debate about our hospitals and research and initiatives
of our doctors. I want to be reassured
and aware that the care and services available to me in my home town.
3572
In closing, I am convinced that the key features in Hometown
Television's application are realistic and they will deliver on their
promises. The type of television
programming proposed would keep us not only informed but would make us
participants too. Torstar has not only
the will but also the respect and support of the community to be successful
with Hometown Television. Thank you for
this opportunity to speak on behalf of Hometown Television, in my view the most
worthy applicant for this licence.
Thank you.
3573
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Thank you, Ms. Chandaria. I
gather from your comments that your organization's focus would be on local
programming for the community, --
3574
MS. CHANDARIA:
That's right.
3575
THE CHAIRPERSON: --
rather than -- presumably there is also room for, or interest in, what we will
refer to as foreign programming as well, in the languages coming from the
countries of origin of the people you represent.
3576
MS. CHANDARIA: It
is a very interesting point you raise, because while working on this initiative
with over 60 programs done, it is to note that none of these talents have been
duplicated, there is so much talent within our local community which need a
voice, which need showcasing and I think I could count on my fingers what has
been, you know, put forward in mainstream television and media. So there is enough scope with the
continuously immigrating new population and the local talent and information
which is -- so my experience is with the local, and I feel a new voice and new
support would be very important.
3577
THE CHAIRPERSON: We
thank you very much. Very courageous of
you to be here so early in the morning.
3578
MS. CHANDARIA:
Thank you.
3579
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Thank you. Mr. Secretary,
please.
3580
MR. CUSSONS: Madam
Chair, we will now hear the intervention by Dr. Joseph Wong.
3581
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Good morning, Dr. Wong.
INTERVENTION
BY DR. JOSEPH WONG/
INTERVENTION
PAR DR. JOSEPH WONG:
3582
MR. WONG: Good
morning. Thank you Madam Chair,
Commissioners, good morning. I am
grateful for the privilege to speak before the CRTC today on a matter which I
consider to be of utmost importance to every Canadian citizen: that is, appropriate use and access of our
public air waves in a democratic, multicultural society.
3583
To put this in context, let me take you back to 1979 to one
of my first experiences with the Canadian television industry and the
CRTC. You may recall a private
television network program which inequitably and wrongfully portrayed Canadian
students of Chinese descent as foreigners who took university places away from
Canadians. This overt stereotyping and
this representation was broadcasting at its worst and it took a peaceful but
powerful Chinese-community-led protest, joined by various other ethno-cultural
groups, community leaders and unions, and the CRTC's intervention to finally
wrestle a public apology from that broadcaster.
3584
In one word, to find a bright light in this unnecessarily
long battle for retraction and resolution, it was in the birth of the Canadian National Council, a human rights
group that I founded shortly after this incident it that continues today, 20
years later, with 29 chapters from coast to coast which promote equality among
all Canadians. I have come to learn
about the powers of the media from this racism in the media incident, and so my
community work with civil liberties, cancer treatment and research, children,
old people, food relief in China, North Korean family relief, United Way of
Greater Toronto, Yee Hong Centre for Geriatric Care, Harmony Movement and
countless other worthy causes.
3585
And I have learned that lack of true local reflectiveness in
the media, and, in particular, on our television sets is a form of
intolerance. The public airways belong
to the people and with the right and privilege of being a broadcaster comes the
responsibility to be fair, balanced and inclusive in the execution of one's
licence. Commissioners, you are the
keeper and teeth and the watch dog of this important tool of democracy. The television industry, I believe, still
has a long way to go in being reflective, locally reflective.
3586
I believe Hometown Television is a credible new voice in
conventional TV; that it would deliver to the citizens of the three communities
that it seeks to serve. Hometown
Television will do this with a breadth and level of respect that has so far
eluded the television industry.
Hometown Television will redefine local from its current narrow lens to
one of many multicultural facets and many points of view from these communities
representing more than 100 different countries of origin.
3587
Why do I have such faith in Hometown Television, why do I
support solely and emphatically Torstar?
Simply, Torstar stands for justice; Torstar stands for integrity; yes,
Torstar stands for small and liberal ideas and Torstar stands for
inclusivity. And most importantly,
Torstar walks the talk. They have, in
their principles and practice, always delivered on their promises.
3588
For example, in 1994, when several communities rose in arms
against intolerant and meanness of spirit against a single ethno-specific group
by an elected public servant in the 905 Markham area, Torstar, through its
newspaper, provided balanced, thoughtful coverage from both camps' perspectives
and community voices. Moreover Torstar
further demonstrated a commitment to community and social justice when they
provided public service space to run an open letter of all mayors of the GTA
affirming all citizens of the local community that diversity is our Canadian
strength.
3589
When Elizabeth Liu, a six-year-old girl suffering from
aplastic anemia, a rare blood disorder, was desperately searching for a
suitable bone marrow donor, Torstar was there; not with a small six lines in a
corner column, but weeks and months of in-depth coverage. I do not doubt for a moment that this is the
very type of local reflectiveness, community outreach and inclusivity Hometown
Television will bring to citizens in the Golden Horseshoe area, in its newscasts,
in non-news programming and in special televised and webcast town hall
meetings. 118 hours of original local
and regional programming, 80 per cent
Canadian at all times, even in prime time; that's unprecedented. I guess with Hometown Television I may
ultimately get my Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame.
3590
What Torstar has done so successfully in its print division
is to be proactively responsive to the changing cosmopolitan of Canada and the
true mainstream of this country. I know
it can, and will, not only duplicate this inclusive approach, but further
enhance it with Hometown Television.
Indeed, and in fact, Torstar has delivered on diversity.
3591
Torstar's commitment to the fundamental principles of a
civil and democratic society will undoubtedly flourish with Hometown TV. I say this with the fullest confidence. Why?
I have reviewed Hometown Television's plan and based on my experience in
developing the multiculturalism and integratism policy for the United Way of
Greater Toronto, both as Chair of the Board of -- both as Chair of the Board of
Trustees and also Chair of the Task Force, I know that Hometown Television's
thoughtful, detailed and realistic vision of these local television station is
not only in demand but will work.
3592
And if there is any lingering doubts whether or not citizens
of Toronto, Hamilton and Kitchener feel there is a void in local reflectiveness
let me tell share with you the key message I heard as one of seven co-chairs --
national co-chairs in the Canada Yes National Committee for Constitutional
Renewal. We travel from coast to coast
to communities large and small and the reply to what would stimulate greater
unity among all Canadians was: More
opportunities to bring people to educate and to create understanding among the
various communities and sectors of the society.
3593
Let me take a moment to comment on the later point -- on the
latter point. When I co-founded the
Harmony Movement I, along with my fellow co-chairs, understood the importance
of bringing people together in a barrier-free environment where we celebrate
and share our common values, like respect for all, compassion, family and
community. So in our annual community
picnic, our banquet or special initiative was the [inaudible] award-winning
photographic exhibits of harmony and diversity. No matter who dropped in, they felt they belonged.
3594
I believe Hometown Television will create that very same
open and embracing culture on the airwaves.
I believe Hometown will be common meeting place for all of us. No matter your age, gender, ethnicity,
faith, partner preferences or preferred language, I believe you will feel like
you belong on Hometown TV. You will see
yourself reflected in others like you on Hometown TV and you will feel at home.
3595
Let me close with a final observation about September 11,
2001. The events have thrown us into a
sea of a million emotions, unprecedented and incomprehensible for the majority
of us living in Canada. And now as the
initial feelings of shock begin to settle into solemn acceptance we are left
with a cutting sense of unresolve. In
times of crisis like this, it is a reminder to all of us that every culture,
ethnic group, faith, nationality and aboriginal peoples can co-exist in the
mosaic of peace, tolerance and mutual understanding.
3596
These states cannot develop in isolation, nor is it only for
a point in time, a moment in history that our efforts must occur. It takes constant work, cultivation and
continuity. It will take a broadcaster
who is deeply routed in the community, a broadcaster who will invest in the
local community, a broadcaster who is committed to hearing all voices in a
community and giving voice to those communities, and that the broadcaster is
Hometown TV.
3597
And equally important it would take a strong and dedicated
leader with impeccable integrity and business acumen, a leader who is deeply
rooted in community and truly cares about access and opportunity for all. Hometown Television has that leader in Bob
Prichard. I say this from a declared
bias, as someone who has proudly worked alongside Bob Prichard as a
Commissioner on the GTA task force. We
have developed a very close and intense relationship of working together,
visioning the future for the GTA. He is
a person with integrity, a deep sense of responsibility towards civility and
someone with a true understanding of the various communities making up Southern
Ontario. I have the utmost trust and
confidence in Rob Prichard who will do the job well. Thank you very much for your patience.
3598
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Thank you, Dr. Wong. We
certainly appreciate you battling the Toronto traffic to come to Hamilton to
visit with us. We appreciate your participation.
3599
MR. WONG: It is a
smooth ride. Hopefully this is a smooth
ride for me too.
3600
THE CHAIRPERSON: I
was expecting you to be taking the pulse of Torontonians at the back; according
to what I saw on TV, that the traffic was difficult this morning. But you must know that; you had to get here.
3601
MR. WONG: We started
early. The early bird catches the worm.
3602
THE CHAIRPERSON:
That is assuming you can get up.
Thank you very much for your participation. We appreciate your visit with us.
3603
MR. WONG: Thank
you. No more questions?
3604
THE CHAIRPERSON: I
don't believe so, no. Your position is
very clear. I as I explained earlier
this morning we are trying to hear as many people as possible. So when your position is clear, we don't
have any questions. It has no -- there
is no indication of a lack of interest.
3605
MR. WONG: Thank you
very much.
3606
THE CHAIRPERSON: And
you also realize that your presentation is on the transcript. Thank you.
Mr. Secretary, please.
3607
MR. CUSSONS: Thank
you Madam Chair we will continue with a few more intervenors supporting the
Torstar application. I would now like
it call on the Catholic Family Counseling Centre, Ms. Cathy Brothers,
please.
3608
Madam Chair I have just been advised that two intervenors
listed on our agenda, the Catholic Family Counseling Centre and Mr. Michael
Collins, Niagara Regional Councilor will no longer be appearing at the
hearing. I have also just been advised
that Mr. Vincent Carlin from Ryerson University will also not be joining us
today. So therefore, I would like to
call upon Mr. Peter Rehak to come forward and present his intervention, please.
3609
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Good morning, Mr. Rehak.
INTERVENTION
BY PETER REHAK/INTERVENTION PAR PETER REHAK:
3610
MR. REHAK: Good
morning. Good morning, Madam Chair,
members of the Commission. I would like
to thank you for this opportunity to support the application of Hometown
Television. My name is Peter
Rehak. I am a journalist. I have been involved with television
production as a producer and an executive for several decades. I also work as a communications consultant
and I teach television journalism at the University of Western Ontario.
3611
More than a year ago I took an assignment as Communications
Consultant with the Walkerton inquiry, the inquiry that is looking into the
Walkerton water tragedy. That
assignment brought me in contact with television outlets through Ontario and
given me a close-up view of local coverage, mainly news coverage, across the
province. That experience has
demonstrated to me a need for more and better local coverage and I believe the
Hometown application goes a long way to addressing that need.
3612
One aspect of my assignment with the inquiry was to ensure
coverage on that the province's television outlets. First of all, that involved the hearings in Walkerton and
additionally public hearings in Toronto and a series of nine town hall meetings
across the province. Overall I cannot
complain about the lack of coverage, but I can safely say that not all needs of
the public were met, at lease not on television. I discovered the world of cable.
And I can report that, on the whole, the cable community did an
excellent job.
3613
Sautel Cable, a company based in Hanover agreed to provide
gavel-to-gavel coverage and a pool was established to service the major
networks. Sautel also broadcast the
proceedings live to the local community and replayed it in the evening. It was easily the largest audience in the
history of that little company.
Unfortunately, people in areas where cable is not available could not
have received the live program, and that included most of the agricultural
community around Walkerton to whom this was a crucial issue. Those on satellite service were able to
follow the inquiry on CPAC which broadcast the proceedings on a delay, and I
believe an over-the-air station in Kitchener, dedicated to local programming
such as Torstar is proposing, would have solved that problem. Local cable outlets also covered all our
town hall meetings, in most cases live, and in most locations local newscasts
carried brief stories on these events.
The hearings ranged from Thunder Bay in the north to Windsor in the
south as well as one in Toronto. The
town halls were important events in each community. Mayors and other municipal officials such as water managers
spoke, as did environmental groups.
Again, viewers without cable service were largely out of luck, except
for perhaps a headline on the evening news.
3614
It's not that we didn't get coverage; everybody showed up
for the big days when the Premier testified and when the water manager
testified, but there were many fewer cameras when the panel of experts
discussed that the handling of manure, a crucial subject in water management
and of great interest to the agricultural community around Walkerton. A number of stations, including the New NX
in Wingham, which as you know belongs to the CHUM group was represented daily. I think they did an excellent job, but their
coverage consisted almost exclusively of brief reports in the local news. They have to carry their network programming
and perhaps not as much time was devoted as there might have been had there
been a more locally-oriented station. I
should also note we had excellent coverage nationally from the CBC, especially
from Newsworld - again, a cable outlet - and from CBC Radio.
3615
However, in my view, there is a definite need for local,
conventional stations that would give extended coverage to municipal and provincial
affairs and thus raise the level of public debate on these issues. I included Toronto in that observation. Local newscasts provide headline service
from city hall and from Queen's Park but there is very little, if any, extended
examination of important issues as the musings about privatizing Toronto's
water treatment facilities and other public issues such as transportation and
taxes. We do see on the air some
sparring between reporters and Toronto's mayor, but we do not see a documentary
that would examine the benefits of subsidizing public transportation or a
policy on affordable housing. I believe
the Hometown application would take care of that.
3616
I would not expected a new local station to carry
gavel-to-gavel coverage of such events as the inquiry or the proceedings of the
legislature, but I would expect such a station to carry longer reports than the
present day evening newscasts and provide context and analysis to guide the
viewer through the maze of the local issues that effect his or her daily life.
3617
There are several programs in the application that fill that
need. Why give the licence to the
Toronto Star? Well, Torstar is
principally an editorial organization, unlike some of the other applicants, and
its news and current affairs programming will draw on that base and observe
journalistic ethics and standards, rather than those of the world of
entertainment. The organization's
dedication to local and provincial news is beyond question. Its obsession with what used to be called a
Metro angle is a frequent source of amusement in the journalistic community,
and I am willing to bet that the Star's reporter's in Afghanistan have at least
one reminder from the editors to remember the Toronto angle. That is, to me, the mindset that's needed
for home town coverage and Torstar will do that and has done that over the
years.
3618
Torstar also, of course, owns newspapers, the Toronto Star as well as the Record in
Kitchener and the Spectator in Hamilton and even the weekly newspaper in
Walkerton. They all demonstrate their
need -- their dedication to local issues daily. The Record along with the Toronto Star hardly missed a day in the
coverage of the Walkerton crisis and the inquiry. I am sure their television stations would pursue local and
regional issues with the same vigour.
3619
I also like the fact that Hometown is a brand new start-up
operation. This will enable it to take
advantage of the latest technology without having to deal with resistance from
established organizational structures.
Furthermore, Torstar is not a network.
It will not abandon local programming to run a network-wide
entertainment blockbuster instead of a municipal election, which has happened
in the case of some national networks.
Local programming has to take on a new importance in the multi-channel
environment. It is the one thing that
is going to be unique. The main
networks have abandoned it, or made it a very low priority. It will be Hometown's reason for
existing.
3620
And last, but not least, Hometown Television will be an
additional source of jobs for the fledgling journalists who graduate each year
from the University of Western Ontario.
3621
Those are my reasons for supporting this application and I
encourage the Commission to grant Torstar this licence. Thank you.
3622
THE CHAIRPERSON: I
also urge people in the hearing room to turn off their telephones and their
beepers; it is very disruptive for people appearing before us and for us. Good morning, Mr. Rehak, it's very nice to
see you. Commission Langford reminds me
of the fact that you are not only famous for the Walkerton inquiry, but also as
a producer. And he may have some
questions for you. But -- I don't know
to what extent you have followed the hearing or probably read the newspapers
and expressed a question mark or concern about the allocation of funds to
production and whether they are reasonable in providing a level of comfort that
Hometown will have sufficiently high-quality products to attract an audience
and be a successful endeavour. I
wonder, considering your experience and the fact that you bothered to come here
this morning, whether you have any comment on that. Do you know what I'm talking about?
3623
MR. REHAK: Yes, it
seems that yesterday's stories were crystallized around a the $10,000
documentary. And I actually inquired of
the Torstar people and they assured me that they will respond to it that next
Monday, that this was not the correct figure.
I think the Toronto Star, Torstar, is a serious organization and it would
not be applying for this licence if they were not prepared to put up the
required resources. Specifically, on
the $10,000 documentary, obviously that is not something that's going to
happen. It costs a lot more; it doesn't
cost a whole lot more, but it does cost more and possibly they were talking
about other non-fiction programming.
But there is local programming that can be done that is not in the
expensive, $100,000-plus league.
3624
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Yes, of course. We take the
figures and we divide them by their the number of hours and try to explore how
it will all work in the end. And of
course the sound bites that are in the newspaper is whatever the journalist
chooses to pick up. I will pass you to
Commissioner Langford.
3625
MR. LANGFORD: Well,
Hi. Peter and I worked together a long
time ago, about the 12th century. It's
lovely to see you again.
3626
THE CHAIRPERSON:
When documentaries were $5,000.
3627
MR. LANGFORD: And
you didn't get 15 minutes of fame you only got 15 seconds. I guess what I would like to ask you about,
it's just building on the question of the Chair because the concern we did have
really was about what had been budgeted for production costs in this
application. They seem terribly low and
one of the replies -- the applicants in reply said they were just simply
impossible, impossibly low, that did it couldn't be done. And we find ourselves with a huge
question. There is no doubt that you
could make some sort of a documentary for $10,000, but would it be of a quality
that would draw the audience you need, and, therefore, the advertising revenues
you need to run an operation like this?
This is a huge operation, it's three convention stations they're putting
on. But the budgeting for programming seemed
very, very low. Do you have any sense of --
3628
MR. REHAK: I think
the most important thing is the content.
If you give people what they want to watch, they'll watch. If you're talking documentary, that term has
come to me -- the $175,000 thing with all the bells and whistles that travel
all over the world. There are a lot of
events that go on locally that are not seen anywhere that, with new technology,
digital cameras, digital editing could be done with production costs are quite
low, provided you pick the right topics and people who -- editorially. And as you know I am a non-fiction guy I
have no idea about dramas or things like that.
I think it's certainly feasible to have local programming on that
scale.
3629
The closest thing I know to this, a few years ago I visited
a station called New York One News in New York, in Manhattan, which was at that
time a small format cable operation and they basically fill the day with
24-hour local news, all of which is interesting and they have a very good
audience despite the fact that Manhattan is not heavily cabled. And I would see it evolving in that
way. Covering cultural events and
covering events of local importance.
The CRTC it here today looking at applications involving Hamilton, I
don't whether the local CanWest station is here covering it. But I would see them devoting part of the
morning program to these hearings, perhaps not the whole morning, and maybe
have some comments afterwards. They can
have local panels, they can have local discussions.
3630
I found in doing the town halls in the nine cities that
there was always cable and basically cable has taken over the this role of
local broadcasting. And I think there
is enough material out there a people will watch. Will they watch 24 hours a day?
Probably not, but events that are covered in the daytime, some of them
can be replayed at night. I think
someone could come up with a creative local broadcast schedule, and they have
some elements of it in the application.
3631
And the other thing I would like to add is they do have
newspapers and I think the Commission has sent a signal that they're not happy
with using newspapers to -- in the broadcast operations. I personally don't see why not. If you have a newspaper and you can run a TV
newscast out of the newsroom, why shouldn't you be allowed to do that? I don't know if that answers your question,
but those are my thoughts on it.
3632
MR. LANGFORD: It
answers a lot of it. I guess following
up on it though, you have to have audiences too and we're talking about
something -- there is kind of an unfortunate sort of struggle going on here in a
way, that, in theory, this is the application everyone in Canada was interested
in broadcasting has been waiting for all their lives. It's 80 per cent Canadian, it isn't more sitcoms from the U.S.
paying the shot and a little bit of Canadian during the day. It's sort of something, you know, --
somewhere Pierre Juneau is smiling.
3633
At the same time, it appears to be the kind of wisdom of the
day that if you are you're going to make these operations pay for themselves,
unfortunately you have to bring in Survivors, whatever, pick an American hit of
the day. That's what pays the freight
for the other stuff. From your
experience, and it's considerable, do you think that this plan can work? That without the drivers of the big American
programs they can bring in the viewers and bring in the advertising and make
this thing work?
3634
MR. REHAK: Well, I
pulled down the spread sheet that you have on your web site about Southern
Ontario profit margins and things like that and I think there is room
there. Also I think this application is
a different business model. We are used
to, as you say, bringing in the big American shows in the schedule, have one or
two big shows that pays for the rest. I
think this model is a little different.
They're hoping to open up advertising to people who don't have access to
it now. And they're hoping to do it
that way.
3635
Will it work? Well
until you try it, you don't know. I am
personally a free market kind of guy. I
would let them put up the antenna and see if it will fly. If it's not going to work, they'll close it
down. I think it's worth a try. Far too much now rests on cable; I think
cable fees have reached a point where it's hurting, and you people licensed all
these wonderful channels, in the last few months, and nobody's watching. Nobody's watching because they have nothing
to say.
3636
I think this is
specifically targeted to people who are interested in local and municipal
issues and I think if you stick to your knitting, you will get an
audience. You won't get a large audience
but I guess the audience that the advertiser who has no access to TV now will
have access. Will it pay? We have to try. It's the only thing that's going to be different in all the 500,
famous 500 channels that you're going to see.
3637
You're going to see Hamilton, you're going to see what's
happening in Kitchener -- I don't know Hamilton very well. Kitchener-Waterloo is a very interesting
area which has a lot of high tech stuff.
It's been very, very successful, it is not extensively covered. It is -- CTV has a small operation there,
most of the coverage comes out of Toronto.
I noticed this driving back and forth to London you get the Toronto
weather all the way almost outside London.
You get Toronto news, you get traffic conditions on the Don Valley on
the Dundas route in London. So I think
there is room for this. I am not an
economist, but I think it's new business model and they're going low cost,
which is why I say they should not be prevented from using the newspaper as a
base, as an editorial base, maybe using the newsroom as a -- you know, as a
news set and trying that kind of a model.
3638
There are cultural events in all these communities which
deserve coverage and if they -- if any of them are getting coverage, they're
usually getting it from cable. And
actually cable, if you look at Rogers, Rogers now calls itself Rogers
television and they have an ambitious schedule which is really taking away what
the conventional stations should be doing.
They have -- in every town they have a morning talk show which used to
be much more frequent on over-the-air stations which have now gone for taking
American talk shows instead. So it's
new, it's local, they've got -- according to the application, they're going to
do 80 per cent local and one assumes that that's what they're going to do. One other thing I like about it they haven't
got network programming they can't -- the municipal election happened in
Kitchener, but because there was a network 9:00 o'clock special that they had
to run, okay. Who was left to cover the
election? Cable. So this is where they're going, they're
going over the air; they're not gouging the cable subscriber and I think they
deserve a chance.
3639
MR. LANGFORD: Thanks
very much. Those are all my questions.
3640
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Rehak, you mentioned sticking to your knitting. You probably know enough about what we are about to understand
all these words of expectations and commitments and the C word, conditions of
licence. Would it be your view that we
would be wise to impose such requirements to the extent possible to ensure that
if we were to decide that it -- we should give Torstar a chance to do this
that, in fact, what ought to occur is that they shut down the antenna rather
than something else. Do you have a view
about how you make them stick to their knitting once they have the frequencies?
3641
MR. REHAK: Well, I
would like to see the Commission get much more aggressive about licence
conditions generally. I think it's been
a little gun shy. It's kind of a
ritual; people come here and apply and make promises and nobody checks. And then if they're deviating from the
licence conditions they ask for an amendment.
I think you have to have somewhat less patience. A few years ago, a couple of years ago I had
my graduate class at Western do a little exercise, go to the new specialty
channels, get the conditions of licence and find out what they're doing and you
would be surprised what you find. So if
you -- I think that if it doesn't work, they'll shut it down because they won't
be able to afford it. What your role in
that situation should be is not to amend the licence. If they come back a year from now and say well you know, this
local stuff doesn't really work and we'd like to run more movies, you say
no. Give us back the licence.
3642
THE CHAIRPERSON: As
you understand of course Mr. Rehak, that their proposal is to have a number of
hours of local programming, a number of regional programming and then Canadian
content over and above that. Of course
we would probably be wise to be as high as possible because it's an easy -- an
easy thing to measure. Local of course
is defined as done in-house, so that's not difficult. Once you get to regional and involve the independent production
industry, as you well know it's difficult to define regional and therefore, to
have a mechanism that would serve as a legal instrument to test whether it's
actually being done and that's about 85.5 hours, I believe, of 126 hours of
regulated broadcasting. Do you have a
view as to how one would have an instrument that would measure whether the 85.5
hours of regional, not produced in-house, could be monitored?
3643
MR. REHAK: Well, you
have to analyze the content, I would think.
You know, who does it speak to?
Does it speak to this region, does it speak this locality? And I wouldn't get too hung up as to where
it's made. It would be better probably
made locally but that leads to difficulties all on its own. But I would judge it on content, if it
services -- say we're in Hamilton here
and it services the Niagara Peninsula it's regional; if it's about wine growing
in California or some documentary they bought for 50 cents from somewhere else,
it does not meet the requirement.
3644
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Have you ever tried Mr. Rehak to draft such a condition of licence where
the point of reference would be whether it speaks to the community?
3645
MR. REHAK: Sorry?
3646
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Have you ever tried to imagine how one would draft, in writing, a
condition of licence that would be enforceable where the aim is to ensure that
the programming speaks to the community?
3647
MR. REHAK: Mr.
Langford is a lawyer I believe and he has a lot of experience doing this, I am
sure. If he needs any help he is
welcome to call me. I haven't thought
this out, but I think it should be possible and -- possibly you have some kind
of evaluation hearing you know, if you -- if you -- I don't know if you have
the facilities and the staff to do this, but you should presumably monitor
programming from time to time. If you
see that something is deviating through what you intended, you call them
in. And I understand the Minister went
to CTV and asked for an explanation of their recent layoffs and I think it
probably had some effect. You could
operate in the same way. If the content
does not meet what you envisioned, you have a meeting with the licensee and see
what you can do.
3648
THE CHAIRPERSON: I
am flattered by the power you are prepared to assign to us. But we certainly appreciate your time this
morning and it's been helpful, it's always interesting for us to have
intervenors who have some experience in related field to add to the
record. We thank you for your patience.
3649
MR. REHAK: Thank you
very much.
3650
THE CHAIRPERSON: We
will hear one more before breaking.
3651
MR. CUSSONS: Thank
you Madam Chairperson, I would now call on Elitha Peterson Productions, Ms.
Sylvia Sweeney.
3652
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Morning Ms. Sweeney.
3653
MS. SWEENEY: Good
morning, how are you? My name is Sylvia
Sweeney and I have been in broadcasting for around 18 years as an independent producer
and also as an on-air host personality.
And in the past 10 years AS an independent I have had many occasions to
knock on doors of the various networks that you have licensed. I am here to give my support to the Hometown
Television application for the following reasons.
3654
First and foremost, in reviewing what's happening this week,
I will make a little departure from what I was going address which is the
advertising revenues and really address the case of how much it costs to do
quality documentary. This past summer,
I produced 22 shows for three different networks: eight for Bravo, 13 for the new Woman's Television Sports Network
and one for CBC. The budget for CBC
Life and Times was $227,000; the budget for WTSN was $10,000 per half hour; the
budget for Bravo was 5,000 per half hour.
3655
Now, I hate to produce anything that has my name on it that
looks terrible. So can you do a
documentary for $10,000? The answer is
yes and no. Depending on support get
from the broadcaster and that network, you can do a fabulous $10,000 show. This $10,000 series that we did for WTSN was
on women in sport from Canada. We did
Wendy Cohen-Miller, Caroline Letherin, and Marnie McBean. So it was their flagship show,
Benchmarks. We read, independently, our
name wasn't mentioned in the article, written by Torstar, but it said that
digital viewing is boring except for one series, the Benchmarks series being
broadcast on WTSN, we hope the rest of the network looks like this.
3656
So how did that happen for $10,000? How it happened it was collaboration between
myself and TSN, to have access to their archives, the support of online and
offline editing, the support of that network to see it through to help us with
tape stock -- they're run SX, we're SP -- so all of that was at our
disposal. They have a tremendous
archive and for the Tollar Cranston piece which -- as an independent, the
$227,000 was a breath of fresh air because the quality. Yes, you can see the difference, definitely
see the difference. We had -- our
archival budget was around $24,000, but
we paid CBC for the archives and that was factoring into the licence fee that
we put in with WTSN when we applied for CTF and Telefilm -- which we did not
get Telefilm funding, we got CTF top-up funding. We are using that to factor into our total budget what WTSN was
putting in. So the $10,000 in cash was
not just $10,000 in cash. It was
$10,000 in cash and kind and the kind we would have to pay one way or another
so you have to factor that in as part of your budget.
3657
What we did ascertain was that when we are approaching the
stations over the years, the amount that they say they're going to give and
amount they're giving are really two different amounts. And independent producers will rarely get up
and speak to you as Commissioners because it's very tough to go back and knock
on the doors of broadcasters and expect them to listen to you. So I am here at my own peril. Going to any broadcaster after this one --
hopefully the proof will be in the pudding and perhaps they'll raise the bar on
what they're telling and what they're doing.
The $5,000 per half hour from Bravo, that money came after the
fact. I produced the series, I got
$5,000 and it was -- actually $5,000 for eight episodes. $40,000 over four months, after. So the payments were spread out $10,000 per
month after I produced it.
3658
So we're carrying the costs, very often, for broadcasters
and no one has been taken to task for it.
When an applicant comes before you and says I am going to put in
$10,000, there are few questions that must be raised: one, how many episodes are you giving that producer? Because if you're saying a one-off
documentary for $10,000, impossible.
For quality control. You can put
anything on the air and put it call it a documentary. I am sorry I didn't bring one of the
documentaries for you to look at, but if you like I will make them available to
you and send them to you. $10,000 for
one off is impossible, quality driven.
Thirteen episodes, at the $130,000 per half hour, now you are amortizing
costs you can hire an editor over three months instead of higher one editor and
paying them for one off. Your overhead,
et cetera and is amortized, and it becomes that $20 to $25,000 which is the
amount that you need for a quality half hour.
It's around
$20 to
$30,000 for a half hour.
3659 So I
have addressed that, just segued from -- the point that I wanted to make was
really that we were actually - we put in for an application about seven years
ago, a group of us and it was at time the CRTC wanted more diversity in
ownership, it was back in '94, in Canadian broadcasting. And what in fact had a happened while there
are more stations the concentration of ownership has barely changed. The impact on the independent producer has
been the relatively devastating, because we are carrying debt loads. Royal Bank can give you chapter and verse on
what is going on in the independent sector.
The promise of greater licence fees for independent programs is
mythical. Broadcasters can not afford
to pay for programs with diminishing ad revenues but at the same time must
adhere to the promises of performance to support independent production.
3660 The
OFTTC, Ontario Film and Television Tax Credit and CAVCO were supposed to give
independent producers a method to offset costs and were encouraging
independents to stay in business. Those
very tax credits by broadcasters and funding agencies to ensure completion of
programming budgets. So many of our
talented independent producers cannot afford their so-called independence.
3661 We are
often called upon to appear before the Commission to support new applications
and I for one rarely do. I decided to
make this exception for two reasons.
One I believe that we have opened Pandora's box; we have licensed a
multitude of stations that are now the cause of fragmentation in the
market. We can not turn back the clock
and recoup ad revenues, but what we can do is ensure that those stations that
are licensed have access to cross-promotional opportunities. This is one important reason to support
Torstar because what he we say cross-promotional to most broadcasters this
means across their existing stations.
To an advertiser, those - this does not necessarily reach their target
market -- and I am been well versed at revenues because we're being asked to
sell ad time for television, to make up our own budgets. So
I believe that due to the fact that Torstar comes from the publishing
industry its definition of cross-promotion will be far more significant and
viable and valuable to advertisers. And
if we're talking free enterprise and fair competition we have to look at who
are the strongest partners we're going to let into the industry with the
sustainability of these stations.
3662 It
already has a substantial advertising base of clients and these existing
advertisers can receive the new added value of cross promoting from print to
television. So the benefits to
advertisers are obvious.
3663 Less
obvious is the benefit to independent producers, but it is becoming more and
more evident as broadcasters are finding innovative ways not to pay for
programming and still to say that they are supporting this sector. What is happening is producers are now being
given air time instead of cash to make up the shortfall for programming. If the independent wants to work, they now
have to become savvy in broadcast sales or not get the work at all. They only hope an independent has is to
support a station that has its house in order and can sell its own air time. I believe that Torstar has demonstrated that
it can.
3664 The
second and final reason that I am supporting this application is because
regional programming is of utmost importance.
There is only one station worth noting that is dedicated to regional
programming and that is the CHUM, Citytv.
However it is skewed to a youthful demographic and if you are not
well-versed in hip hop or colloquialism there is really no place to go on
television. Producers from these
regions have a lot to say but are not given the opportunity because if it comes
from Southern Ontario it had better be of national significance or there are no
points given for regional productions in this area, local productions from this
area are getting lost in the mix. If it
comes from Southern Ontario, it either has to be big or they get points for
actually licensing and buying licences from smaller agents.
3665 That
might explain why there is a monolithic of programming on television in this
area. The rich diversity of this part
of the country is still not being reflected in its wonderful entirety because
there is still no place for it. As an
example, I live on Ward's Island and it's a wonderful community. It's got history, a wealth of history and I
have been told over and over again it's of national significance. And we now it brought down the government --
brought the government to its knees at one point -- with some rabble rousers
from the 60s, and a wonderful history of artists and politicians. Can't tell the story.
3666 So I
recommend that the Commission look at this application very carefully. When they're starting out any application to
make any promise, I have to agree with Peter Rehak when he said that
watchdogging the promises are more important than anything. Licensing -- I have seen the pony show every
year and the promises I have heard. And
watchdogging this industry is much harder and as you said, the content. How do you watch the content and how do you
actually -- how can the Commission actually tell a programmer that you're
content is really terrible? It's very
difficult. But what you can do is look
at what they promised and speak to the independents who are brave enough to sit
before you and see whether or not they're servicing the quality and content
that they had promised before you gave them the licence.
3667 I
believe Torstar can. It has, in its
short history during this application, contacted, I believe, the right people
to advise it as to how they feel about this application. And most of them have stood up like June
Callwood has done. These are people of
substance in our community who have said -- supported the Torstar
application. If you have any questions
I would be happy to answer them.
3668 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Pennefather.
3669 MS.
PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam
Chair. Good morning. Thank you for your clarifications on costing
and really adds to the mix of our understanding because I am sure you agree
with me the word documentary is used to describe quite a variety of programming
these days. So I think it's important
we understand the theory and the content.
I think you have clarified for us to be careful about understanding the
value of program once it's on air as opposed to the cash component of the
budget. So that, for example, a $10,000
cash component could be part of if you extracted all the in-house costs and
other elements it may be $60,000.
3670 MS.
SWEENEY: That's right.
3671 MS.
PENNEFATHER: We appreciate that. Since you're here, I'm going to talk about
your experience as an independent producer.
I have your written intervention in front of me and there is one piece
of the puzzle you didn't touch on this morning and I think we would be
interested in hearing more about. You
say quality programming cannot be produced at the expense of independents who
cannot refuse the work. Could you
expand on that?
3672 MS.
SWEENEY: Yes. In order to -- there are many independent producers knocking on
the door and there are many producers calling themselves producers who are
right out of school knocking on the door and saying I will do it for
nothing. Now as a producer who has been
around a long time to be offered a budget of $5,000 is slightly insulting. Can I afford to say no? No, I can't because if I tried to approach the broadcaster again, it's a
very subjective business. Rejected --
you can be rejected for many reasons and one of the reasons is pure and simply
there is only one programmer deciding for one network who gets the yes and who
gets the no. It is a business of
relationships. It's a business of
finance and relationships. So burning
bridges by saying no is not usually a good thing. If they can find someone who will do it cheaper, they'll find
it.
3673 I
remember speaking to Moses many years ago and asking him about licence
fees. And he said to me if you are a
producer that means you can find the money.
We pay out after. Now, that
isn't the definition of a licence fee.
A licence fee is supposed to be part of your funding structure so you
know where you're going. I really would
recommend that the Commission speak to the Royal Bank. The Royal Bank is financing and cash flowing
90 percent of the -- of the independent productions out there and Rogers. They're cash flowing things and they go tell
you the cadence of the licence fees and if these broadcasters are adhering to
the promises of performance because what we have been able to do is cash flow
for the broadcasters because had a fairly good relationship the bank. But we are carrying interest rates that
aren't factored into the total budget.
3674 Over
the year, if you look the carrying -- the tax credits don't come in for is a
year or two; some are still waiting after a year for a tax credit. Well the program has been paid for and
aired. And the costs have been paid. Who is carrying the cost? The independent producer. So complaining about that when you're going
in to pitch a story is -- I have become the thorn in the side of the programmer
now.
3675 Let's
choose a program that we know is problem free they know $10,000 is all we've
got, that is all they've getting, and go away and make it work. Some can make a work. I have been able to work it for 10 years,
and everyone wants to know, when are you going to make money? And I have been doing it for the love of it
10 years, I can't continue. I have
decided this year the only broadcaster I will work for is CBC. Cannot afford to do any more programming,
unless -- even WTSN did a wonderful job this year and the crunch is on, how can
we afford to give $10,000 again.
3676 So if
that answers your question, it's extremely difficult to buck a system when
there are thousands of people ready to do it on Hi-8 camera and ready to do it
for nothing. You have to say, I can do
it for nothing I guess as well.
3677 MS.
PENNEFATHER: Thank you for that reality
check and I appreciate that you did say that the watchdog role that you think
we should take on, that's one -- one thing to say. The other is how far could or should a regulator go in that
regard and you did make the comment we could not turn around and tell
programmers what they should be programming.
It's a fine line, it's a difficult, challenging position but I
understand the start of the point; how you do that is something else. Thanks very much.
3678 MS.
SWEENEY: You're welcome.
3679 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. We -- not only broadcasters get free
programming, but the Commission is getting lots of free advice this
morning. And we really appreciate
it. It's always -- to enrich the record
as much as possible. Commissioner
Wilson has a question.
3680 MS.
WILSON: It's not really much of a
question. It's nice to see you, but I
would love to see one of the episodes of the documentary series for WTSN
because I think it would be give us a good idea of what's possible.
3681 MS.
SWEENEY: I will send that to you.
3682 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms. Sweeney
appreciate your presence we will now take a 15-minute break.
---
Recess taken at 0958/Suspension à 0958
--- On
resuming at 1020/Reprise à 1020
3683 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
3684 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you, Madam Chair. just a quick announcement, earlier this
morning I had understood that Ms. Cathy Bothers of the Catholic Family
Counseling Centre could not join us at the hearing. However, it would seem that she is now able to join us but on
Monday morning, so we would pleased to accommodate Ms. Brothers' intervention
on Monday morning and in the meantime I would now like to call on Mr. David
Wesley from Redcanoe Productions to present his intervention, please.
3685 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Mr. Wesley.
INTERVENTION
BY REDCANOE PRODUCTIONS/
INTERVENTION
PAR REDCANOE PRODUCTIONS:
3686 MR.
WESLEY: How are you? Clearly I am here to support Torstar's
Hometown Television bid. This is going
to be a bit shorter than I planned. I
had chunk of delivery I was going to do in addressing the same sorts of issues
that Sylvia addressed in terms of licence fees and the costs of programming, it
was so similar to what Sylvia said that I was worried that someone would say we
were scripted on the stuff.
3687 THE
CHAIRPERSON: To paraphrase Mr. --
3688 MR.
WESLEY: I would be happy to discuss
those issues.
3689 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Feel free paraphrase
things, Mr. Wesley, we benefit from being told the same thing twice, three
times, four times.
3690 MR.
WESLEY: Well, there are many fine
proposals here and good people and good ideas behind a lot of them, but as an
independent producer who was a TV critic as a journalist and someone who
continues to live and work in Hamilton my interest is in the proposals that
would actually put a new television station and entity here in Hamilton rather
than just another transmitter.
3691 I
looked carefully at proposal and I like what I see. As an independent I feel it's the best. I like the hundred jobs per community that it's going to
produce. I like the $10.6 million that
is earmarked for independent production and I like the $10 million for programming. As a viewer and a community member I also
feel it fills a gap that needs to be filled here in Hamilton in terms of
community programming. Their news and
current affairs show, their entertainment package, the documentaries that
they're going to put on, I think it's great.
3692 I
won't go over the proposal itself in detail; others have. And besides, the promises especially to the
CRTC, as we have been already been told are easy enough to make. As an ex-TV critic I have watched enough
television and watched the TV industry enough to know that very few Canadian
broadcasters fulfill both the spirit and the letter of their CRTC requirements,
and as both a TV critic and as a member of community I am a big supporter of
those requirements. Many more have
tried to follow the letter and had no interest in the spirit and more still do
their best to weave and dodge to avoid both.
In case this sounds like a private/public broadcaster split here, it
isn't. I think some of the Alliance
Atlantis specialty channels, History Channel and others, do a super job of
coming through with what they promised they would do and the same goes with
some of the CHUM/City entities.
3693 How do
we know they will be kept, not only to the letter but with some spirit as
well? People will watch community-based
TV programming in Hamilton. Last year,
then ON TV commissioned my company to do a two hour history of Hamilton for
television. In addition to the licence
fee, which in the beginning we were going to get, as Sylvia mentioned, after
everything was done, we worked out a development deal so we could get a little
of that money up front. In addition to
the licence fee we financed it though the community. McMaster University, corporations such at Westinghouse, labour
unions such as the United Steelworkers local 1005, CUPE, the building trades,
the City of Hamilton, the library, the art gallery, the Head of the Lake
Historical Society, 701.Com, Wescam, many others made it possible. And along with a large group of community
advisers we made a good documentary which aired last March and according to the
programmers pulled in 20 times the normal number of viewers for a Canadian
program on the channel.
3694 It was
so successful that the then programming director asked to consider doing a stream
of such programs. We came in with 10 to
14 ideas and working with the station narrowed it down to the three of the best
and began working on developing them, again after activating our community and
organization board of advisers. It was
at this point, just the week before our history program actually aired on the
channel, that Global took over and within a couple of months the whole thing
was dead. I had to go back to these
groups in the community and tell them now Global was in charge they were no longer
interested in these community-based shows.
We felt that once we had helped them fulfill the letter of their CRTC
mandate and given them two hours of good Canadian programming to put in prime
time, the station wasn't so keen in continuing in that spirit.
3695 As a
journalist I mostly worked for either the Spec or Southam, and Torstar was
usually the opposition. But I always
respected its commitment to community and the way it followed through on that
commitment. There is the very, very old
joke about the Toronto Star that the head line would read, "World Comes to an
End, Metro reaction, page 3" and that, as funny as it is, it's really an
indication of the commitment that the corporation has always to serving its
community of Metro Toronto. It's Metro
Toronto that the Star served; it never had the pretension to prop itself up as
a national paper, but in serving Toronto so well it gained national attention
as did its writers and columnists and gained a lot of respect. I worked long enough at the Spec and read it
long enough to know that its community commitment and its coverage is
solid. And its indicative I think that
after joining Torstar, the new editor was a long-time Hamilton resident and
someone within the newsroom who was promoted to that position. They didn't come in and clean house and
bring people in from Toronto.
3696 So I
see no reason why Torstar's television commitment would be any less. I will be honest if none of this was
happening, it wouldn't make any difference to me as a producer. I haven't had any advance deal from Torstar,
I just met Don Shafer this morning. I
may be in a position now to turn down a $10,000 licence fee, though won't know
it from my line of credit at my bank.
My company has just co-produced a feature children's Midsummer's Night
Dream involving Derek Jacobi with a U.K. partner which has opened to rave
reviews in the U.K. It's the first
Hamilton co-produced feature to open in the U.K. I am developing a movie for
the CBC to be shot here in Hamilton and in Greece. We're doing another international production of Shakespeare's
King John with a U.K. co-production partner.
I am a doing a series, Mystic Women of the Middle Ages for TFO and CLT
involving McMaster. And McMaster
University is also involved in a three-hour documentary on Bertrand Russell for
TVO. So believe me I have lots to
do.
3697 But I
look at this proposal and I see that it will generate activities, more than the
other proposals, for independent producers in this region. And for that reason I am very supportive of
it. I have always been determined to
maintain a base here in Hamilton and support Hamilton production as much as
possible. I think the Torstar proposal
would do just that, it would create jobs here, it would give new inexperienced
independent producers more opportunities than they now have, and it would fill
a real void in community programming that we unfortunately now have here in
Hamilton. Frankly, I think it's
refreshing to have a new player among the usual faces which regularly appear
before the CRTC in terms of a broadcaster. As a Hamilton community member and a
viewer, I think the Torstar track record speaks for itself and we'll actually
get to see on the screen what it is proposing.
And as I said, I had another bit I was going to say about financing and
productions, but I think maybe it would be better if we just talked about that
as I answer questions.
3698 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr. Wesley. Commissioner Langford?
3699 MR.
LANGFORD: If a question will spur it
on, I am your man. We -- you have heard
some of the things that were said earlier by some your colleagues in the field
and I suppose that's what we'd like, I can't speak for anyone else by myself,
but I can't hear enough of that. Any
more clarification you could bring to that, if you're clarification is simply
to say I agree with them, that's fine.
But if there is any more clarification bring to the numbers.
3700 MR.
WESLEY: Sylvia is right, licence fees
are dropping for independent producers and it's harder and harder to put a deal
together. Whereas we used to be able to
do it with one broadcaster, we now have to go out and get a group of
broadcasters involved. She is
absolutely right though, that the $10,000 licence fee even in and of itself
wouldn't be enough to make a good documentary production, but when you add in
the kinds of in kind possibilities that Torstar is offering, when you can go
out and raise additional funding it is possible to do a documentary for that
kind of licence fee.
3701 Whether
I would do it, I have to see what else I had to do, whether I absolutely needed
it or not. But in terms of community
documentary programming and regional documentary programming, if the service is
such as archive -- use of archival
materials, on-screen hosts, some of the facilities that Torstar will offer, if
that's thrown into the package, then yes, it is doable. Especially I think in terms of, as Sylvia
alluded to, though it's still hard for those of us who have been doing this for
a while to raise the money, for young producer who are coming out of Mohawk
College or some of communications schools who want to start in the business,
it's a way for them to do that. If they
can take enough of the $10,000 to keep themselves going for a few months, then
it's a good way to get started. I think
that on a community level it's not at all impossible to do a documentary for
that much money as long as those other kinds of things are added in to
essentially boost the contribution of Torstar up to a considerably higher
lever.
3702 MR.
LANGFORD: But a couple of specifics if
you don't mind. Recent graduates are a
wonderful thing, they are energetic and better educated every year, but they're
not experienced yet by definition and we could talk about that horrible
conundrum of, experience wanted, I have no experience, but I can't get it
without experience. It's tough. Still, we are talking about prime time
television here and about going up against some slick stuff with huge, huge budgets
and the other half of the equation is you've got to get viewers so you can sell
ads, otherwise -
3703 MR.
WESLEY: I think the viewers are there
and I think the Hamilton history program was a good indication. It was a marvelous experience here in
Hamilton. It was, I think, remarkable for the people of Hamilton to see
themselves on television, see their own community, their own ancestors being
dealt with in terms of television programming.
If the kinds programming that we're talking about are there, regional
programming, programs that mean something to the people who live and work in
this region is on television, people will watch it. It's just that there is such a lack of that kind of programming
on I think the mythology is that people that won't come to it. But they came to the Hamilton history
program, and I think it's a real good indication that the viewers are there.
3704 MR.
LANGFORD: Finally, the question about
the issue of archives. Actually I feel
badly that I didn't put the question to the applicants when they were here, but
maybe you have some experience. What is
in these archives that are featured? Are they newspaper archives?
3705 MR.
WESLEY: As an independent producer for
the Hamilton history film, we used an awful lot of still photographs in terms
of telling Hamilton's history.
Obviously we started with native history of region and went right
through the history of the area and there certainly wasn't film for much of
that time period. We had to go archives
to find paintings, pictures, photographs, edit all of those in a way that made
it interesting for the television viewer, who is used to a lot of action, to
keep them engaged. But they cost a lot
of money, they cost a lot of money and they make up a big part of the budget of
any documentary film, is to go into the archives and find that kind of
material.
3706 If,
for instance, we were doing a biography of someone from Hamilton I would just
-- for no special reason jumps out a
liberal cabinet minister who was largely responsible for creating this kind of
parks and highway infrastructure that the province now has, we would have to go
out and find all the pictures of him, we'd have to spend a lot of money digging
through archives from newspapers and television stations and that's the kind of
thing that would be invaluable. We actually did buy some things from the
Toronto Star archives, pictures that we needed. Having those as part of the production deal, that's real cash to
us. I mean it's money that we would
otherwise have to spend, as or the other kinds of facilities and services that
Torstar would be able to bring to the table as well as the hosts and on-screen
personalities Those are things we
would otherwise have to pay for. So
it's like cash to us.
3707 MR.
LANGFORD: Is it unique because I
thought we heard from the Alliance applicants in reply that they provide some
of that sort of support, hosts, and editing help and perhaps even crews at
times and things like that.
3708 MR.
WESLEY: It's not unusual for
broadcasters to provide facilities as well as licence fees. In the case with CH and ONTV, some of their
-- we did our online there. Some of
their facilities were thrown in in that case and again that's real cash. It's not unique, it's often the case that
broadcasters will provide services as well as licence fee, cash.
3709 MR.
LANGFORD: That you very much, those are
my questions; there may be others.
3710 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Cram, please.
3711 MS.
CRAM: Thank you, Mr. Wesley. The Hamilton program that you produced, what
was the cost of the production?
3712 MR.
WESLEY: The cost of production was
about $300,000.
3713 MS.
CRAM: And was there also facilities and
other sort of non-cash in addition or was it -
3714 MR.
WESLEY: There were, I think in that
case if memory serves me correctly, for the two hours we had a $30,000 licence
fee per hour and another $15 to $20,000 from ONTV in terms of facilities and
the rest we then had to go and make up through the usual channels. We got the licence fee program, we got
Telefilm and that helped, but the rest was -- was all community based. We went out into the community and raised
the funding to make the program possible, which again was a good experience in
terms of it involving the community in the process of making films.
3715 MS.
CRAM: And I'm sorry, what was the
share, that -- the audience share that resulted?
3716 MR.
WESLEY: We were told it was 20 times the
normal share that they received for locally produced Canadian program on CH at
the time, which you know, given the larger universe of shares might not sound
all that high in total, but certainly for them, for the region it was -- they
were so pleased with it that, at the time, as I say they wanted to look at
doing a stream of these types of programs.
Certainly the programming director, who was -- who then left CH and was
not replaced, was very keen on doing that.
3717 MS.
CRAM: So was that say a three, four
share or do you know?
3718 MR.
WESLEY: You know, I honestly don't
know. I can certainly find out and let
you know or try and find out.
3719 MS.
CRAM: Thank you.
3720 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Wesley for your participation. We
certainly appreciate that you bothered to come and visit with us. Mr. Secretary, please.
3721 MR.
CUSSONS: Madam Chair the next
intervenor is Ms. Sandra Savelli.
3722 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Morning.
INTERVENTION
BY SANDRA SAVELLI/
INTERVENTION
PAR SANDRA SAVELLI:
3723 MS.
SAVELLI: Madam Chair, members of the
Commission my same is Sandy Savelli and I am a television host and local on-air
personality who has a very unique story to tell Which I think will prove why
Torstar's proposal for Hometown TV will work and will be successful. This is my
home town. I was born here and raised
here. I lived in Hamilton for 20 years,
I lived in St. Catherines and Grimsby for another 10 years, I have resided in
Burlington for 16 years. I work in
Toronto and I am very familiar with
Kitchener-Waterloo as well, I shop there and have relatives there.
3724 THE
CHAIRPERSON: You don't look that old.
3725 MS.
SAVELLI: I have a 27-year-old son who
is a reporter in Staten Island, New York and a daughter who is 25 who has
graduated from Ryerson in radio and television and, unfortunately, couldn't
find a job that she really liked so now she's at teacher's college.
3726 THE
CHAIRPERSON: When someone raises your
age like that you are supposed to say my husband has.
3727 MS.
SAVELLI: No, I have. They're mine.
3728 THE
CHAIRPERSON: In this day and age, no
one dares to question that.
3729 MS.
SAVELLI: Exactly. I gave birth to them, really. Anyway, I have come out of the modeling
industry in Toronto. I appeared in
Sears catalogue, the Bay flyers, Eaton's flyers, done countless
commercials. From there I was recruited
to be a host on the shopping channel where I was flogging perfume, Foreman
grills and hair removal for two years, loved it, had a lot of great experiences
with celebrities and non-celebrities. It
gave me great experience being an on-air host, thinking on my feet, and it was
terrific.
3730 However,
after two years of that I was approached producer who knew I was a Hamilton
home town girl. Her passion was to
bring back a show called Tiny Talent Time.
She brought it back in the form of Today's Talent Time. It was a brand new approach. It was more slick, it was a bigger
production, there was even a competition element to it. It was also rolled into a charity called the
Starlight Foundation which grants wishes to terminally ill children. It was phenomenal success it aired on TV
last fall, came to air in September. I
was the co-host of that show and I was so honoured to be that.
3731 The
show didn't go past 10 weeks of production, due to internal politics and
squabbles based on what I believe was the argument over concept, ownership of
concept of the show. To this day I am
stopped in the streets of Hamilton and people ask me what happened to that
show. We had children coming forth
submitting videotapes of their talent.
They were to submit a videotape and that was the audition process. I had people coming up to me and saying
where do we send our tapes and I say, unfortunately that show isn't on anymore
but just wait because it's going to come back in one form or another.
3732 When
that show ended I was out of a job and I -- I was an unemployed television
host. At that time the local channel
was turning into CH TV. I created a
show specifically targeted to my home town, it was called Shop With Me. Now, I took my expertise of shopping from
the shopping channel and my love of my home town and I created a show where in
a half hour every Sunday I went around to shop owners in the Hamilton area and
focused on their story. Now, they were
shop owners who, perhaps, were brand new, innovative shop owners or they had a
real rich history in Hamilton.
3733 One,
for instance, was fourth generation butcher shop, another a little man on King
Street, Curly's hat shop. He makes
custom-made hats and he learned to do his craft in Czechoslovakia. Another one is Bob's Sport and Dive on
Kenilworth Drive in the east end, no one really still thought he still
existed. But he did. He sells scuba equipment and gives lessons
at the local Kiwanis pool. Anyway, the
reaction from this show was unbelievable.
Now to keep -- I created the show, I had no experience in television
creation, it was my baby and I took it to them and they said go for it. Within four weeks I had a pilot and within
three more weeks after that we were on the air.
3734 The
reaction from the community was phenomenal and the reason I'm telling you this
is because I believe with Hometown Television, with shows like this, once
again, the community comes forward.
Torstar is going to create the environment for advertisers to come
forward. In this little show that I had
we had people interested in advertising because what happened was that we were
in their anyway filming their store. We
had the real footage the production company I went to could have made quick,
inexpensive really slick commercials for that store. Okay, so the production company gets extra business because they
have made an extra commercial. The
vendor has purchased an inexpensive and really slick commercial. The broadcaster benefits because the shop
owner is advertising on the show, and the viewers benefit because they didn't
know Bob's scuba shop even existed.
It's a win, win, win, win, win situation. People still ask me what happened to Shop With Me. Same story.
3735 In my
opinion, and I won't get into any of the nastiness, but in my opinion we didn't
get support from our local station.
When I personally hand delivered my tape every week, I tagged on a 10
second promo at the end of the tape.
They were never aired. When I
asked why they weren't aired I was told, Sandy, why should we air your 10
second promo of a local show that nobody watches when we have to use that 10
seconds for the expensive American shows we bought? Is that local support? I
have got letters here of some of the businesses that I went to. They were overwhelming with thank-yous. BIA, in Hamilton that is the Business
Improvement Association, there are 13 of them in the Hamilton area. The International Village, which is downtown
on King Street and suffering a slow death because nobody goes downtown
anymore. I went down there and out of
39 focuses and 13 shows I focused on International Village about one-third of
the time because I felt they needed it.
I got a letter here that is absolutely -- it's just heart wrenching and
they are so very thankful. We have a
gentleman who turned a church, an 18th century church into a computer centre
and now it's called the Light Computer Centre.
he was one of my focuses. Great
story he has, he is also a member of the Chamber of Commerce. He donated prizes, we had an on air contest.
3736 What
I'm saying all this for is there is support in Hamilton from the viewers. There is support for advertisers. When we create the environment which local
stores want to advertise on, it -- this is going work. The talent show, to go back to that, you
have not seen good TV until you have seen a four-year-old little boy of African
Canadian decent dressed in tuxedo singing O Canada a capella, there wasn't a
dry eye in the house. What about a
five-year-old tap dancer, who claimed she had been taking lessons for eight
years?
3737 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Sounds like you.
3738 MS.
SAVELLI: Or a ten-year-old handsome lad
who sits down at a piano stool and when my co-host asked him if he had
encountered an increase in girlfriends due to the fact that he's so musically
talented his answer was, quite frankly I have enough women in my life. You can't write those kinds of scripts. Let me tell you the ripple effect from the
talent show. And this is the absolute
truth. The talent show starts airing,
it's a phenomenal success within the city because people remember it. Oh, by the way, I was on Tiny Talent Time, I
forgot to say this, in 1965 when I was 11 years old I was on Tiny Talent
Time. In 1986, my daughter tap danced
on Tiny Talent Time. In the year 2000 I
became the co-host of the return of Tiny Talent Time.
3739 Now,
the ripple effect: one dance teacher told me that because of Today's Talent
Time coming back she had to put three more classes into her schedule because
there was an increase in interest in dance classes. A local shoe store told me when I was then doing Shop With Me
that he was considering putting - at time talent show was on - he was
considering having an area in the store specifically for ballet shoes and tap
shoes because the demand had increased.
That's increased business.
Ottawa street, for those of you who are not from this area, if you don't
know about Ottawa street, if you are a seamstress, I suggest you head down
there because we have got two solid blocks, wall to wall, of fabric stores,
decor shops and dressmaker supplies.
The lady who owns the local dressmakers shop said she could not believe
the increase in business due to the talent show. For boas, sequins, fringes, what have you, for costumes. This is the ripple effect that wonderful
local programming -- what happens with good programming.
3740 And I
believe Torstar coming forward with Hometown Television is going to prove all
this once again. I don't believe we got
the support we were promised with the talent show or with Shop With Me. The Shop With Me ripple affect: it's
endless. The Chamber of Commerce
supported our closed captioning. We
were given, to keep production costs down, I went and knocked on doors for contra. I got a Mercedes for two weeks from Garden
Motor car to drive my crew around in.
The Royal Connaught Howard Johnson hotel put my crew up because they
were from Toronto. I live locally, but
they put my crew up ten nights, five of them for ten nights in exchange for a
thank you at the end of shows. We were
fed; there was so much food. Other TV
crews with would be green with envy to know the food that came forward. We were treated to Chinese dinners, corned
beef sandwiches, you name it from local people who said Sandy, this show is
incredible. What do you need from
us?
3741 So
having said all that, do we have the viewers absolutely we do, they still stop
me on the street. They say you're the
shopping lady and they don't mean the shopping channel, they're talking about
Shop With Me. Or you are the talent
show lady, where did that show go? They
stop me on the street.
3742 We
have the viewers, do we have the advertisers?
My opinion, absolutely, because Hometown TV is going to create the
environment to have these advertisers.
We've got children's shows, local children's shows. I know some of it is going to be
non-commercial however, some of it is going to be sponsored by
commercials. Torstar will have an
advertising sales team that will then go to places like pet stores, music
shops, book shops, things that pertain to children not to mention the fast food
outlets locally and not to mention the local attractions like Marineland, art
galleries, Gage Park. All of those will
be the advertisers for these local shows.
A local home and décor show?
Ottawa Street, the BIA from Ottawa Street will advertise on a show
that's local. So we have the viewers
and we have the advertiser but we don't have the vehicle to showcase these
people.
3743 We
have talented kids out there. I want
this talent show to come back so badly because we've got kids that are so
incredibly talented and they have got nowhere to go. There isn't a talent show.
Think about this, if I asked you to put five people in a room, two
parents two children, age -- or maybe three kids, age three, 10 and 18 and
throw in a couple of grandparents, you've got three generations in one
room. Show me a TV show that they're
all going agree on? Not sports,
probably not a sitcom, cooking show, no, gardening show, no, it's going to be a
children's talent show because they all got a kick out of these little
kids. By the way, this talent show went
from age four to 18. The 18-year-olds,
some of them the talent the was so overwhelming that it just made the hair on your
neck stand up. A 15-year-old girl sang
from Les Miserables, it brought the house down.
3744 MR.
CUSSONS: Ms. Savelli, excuse me, my
apologies we did ask people to stick to the 10 minute.
3745 MS.
SAVELLI: Okay. I am done.
3746 THE
CHAIRPERSON: We knew you could count.
3747 MS.
SAVELLI: I have said my piece, we do
have the viewers and we do the advertisers.
3748 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms. Savelli and
I hope you realize there is a transcript and we will be counting all those
years you spent here and there. See if
it computes.
3749 MS.
SAVELLI: Okay. Yes, it does.
3750 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for
your presentation. Mr. Secretary,
please.
3751 MR.
CUSSONS: Madam Chair, the next intervention
will be presented by Brickworks Communications, Mr. Earle.
3752 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Mr. Earle.
INTERVENTION
BY BRICKWORKS COMMUNICATIONS/
INTERVENTION
PAR BRICKWORKS COMMUNICATIONS:
3753 MR.
EARLE: Morning. That's a tough act to follow. I am a lot younger. I'm very young. Shall I start right in?
Okay. I too am a local. I actually grew up in the peninsula but I
have in the Hamilton area pretty much all my life. I went to school elsewhere, but largely have been here, have
grown up through the communities and have remained in business, while I
traveled a lot, have fundamentally remained in business in the general area of
the place. I have been involved in
communications for more than 25 years.
Public, corporate affairs, most of it.
I was involved with some large organizations and operate at the national
and international levels in that life.
Now I am a small business person running a communications organization
and agency that does public affairs and advertising, largely regional agencies,
approximately 20 employees. And our
marketplace, by and large, is the area running from the Windsor corridor down
through Niagara, some Toronto and a bit of Ottawa, but you can see it's coming
off the GTA and now working that way.
3754 I am
not a television expert, don't claim to be.
I am a business person, I am a communications person. I was asked to bring my perspective today
and perspective I will bring. I can't go
into all the details of the issues; I don't know them and I'm not qualified to
comment on that. I am qualified to talk
probably about business and I can probably talk about our communities by dint
of my time around and my involvement, whether it's been local Chambers or other
social organizations and boards and chairs and that sort of thing.
3755 One of
the things that I wanted to say very specifically -- and I understand why the
CRTC exists and it's a very positive entity, but I still believe very heavily
in competition. And I think the
survival of organizations depends on the competition. I also believe very strongly in change, the need to change the
human condition, the need to change business conditions. Those are drivers that drive us into
excellence. Do we make mistakes along
the way? Sometimes. But I have been in industries, dating back a
number of years because I am a little older, that didn't change and the cost
was horrendous.
3756 And
we're still seeing some of that and that's -- that change is imperative and
it's that competition that forces innovation, looks at things, that actually
makes a whole bunch of things, and I will get to them in a second, there is a
whole bunch of interesting things from the shareholder perspective. That whole notion of governance in large
organizations, and shareholder rights, those kind of things that now you do
haven't too many insiders on boards.
Now you have shareholders who actually say what they want their
organization to do if they're going invest in them, that actually has a say in
management strategies, puts the onus on them a lot more than it used to. And we
have seen a lot of that; poor performance gets your career shortened
considerably.
3757 That's
why I don't take the Torstar proposal particularly lightly. I don't believe - I have worked for a lot of
large organizations - I do not believe that an organization of that stature
with the quality of management they have, shareholder base that they have,
would allow a management strategy that would come to the table to be put in
place that wasn't well thought out and didn't have a real shot at returning
value and returning investment. It just
wouldn't happen. Now, one could say, is it a loss leader? I don't believe that. You don't do that anymore. You put parts of businesses together to
drive a long-term strategy for the health and value out of your
organization. You do that, you have to
do that. It's tough enough in doing it,
and trying very hard while. Now I know
this.
3758 Southern
Ontario, and it's probably been said before, but talking about markets in
Southern Ontario, I spend a lot of time in them, as well as in the States. Gosh, it -- we're back -- we're going
through a soft spot Southern Ontario is really cooking, it's a cooking place,
Niagara is a renaissance, my God. The
major hotel chains, the global hotel chains have brought big time capital in
all of those hotels in Niagara Falls again.
That means a global commitment to that destination. That says something to me. The wine industry of course, that's
something, I actually just took a senior executive from a very large financial
institution through a tour of the peninsula to meet not only politicals, but
the business people and that sort of thing, and it was very impressive, and the
educational institutions.
3759 Kitchener-Waterloo,
I have a small office in KW, another area that is very, very, very
significant. Converging, the whole
notion of the CTT and the technology triangle and that sort of thing. Those are all places that are in the region
that service the region but are also businesses that work in and out of the
region, if not on a global basis certainly on a north-south base with the U.S.
3760 And I
think that our communities are growing, and growing at the rate they're
growing, there is market there. There
is market there for regional television.
And I think that the cost structure would change and bring people
around. Those people can't -- many
people can't advertise or don't need to advertise on television now because of
the cost in relation to values they get.
Television is still a hot medium.
If I had my druthers and I could afford it, I would advertise on
television, run my business that way.
And I think that the cost structures and the quality of the target
markets that you can draw from that are a very positive thing.
3761 I have
also seen over the last number of years regional stations in this area, God
bless them, twist in the wind. And I
also think that goes back largely to lack of quality in some ways, some
investment dollars gone awry, a lack of focus, certainly lack of competition
may be added to that, but they twist in the wind. And it wasn't because loss of focus or loss of businesses. Just -- I just don't believe that. I believe that competition will bring focus
to that, bring a real desire to do something about that.
3762 Hamilton,
Kitchener-Waterloo, Niagara, I believe they are rich in history, quite
different, rich in cultural fabric and a cultural fabric that's growing. Very competitive areas now, very
competitive. I think they all have
bright futures and quite frankly, one is looking at the economies of those
areas now not as separate, they are growing together more. They're looking at area as the T at end of
the GTA and that T is a fairly substantial place. I would expect that -- we talk about too many people in the
Southern Ontario in the next short while, I expect 20, 25 per cent in that
triangle from Niagara through to the end of the KW/London area.
3763 I
think that also the television situation, has been mentioned before so I won't
linger, also develops talent on a number of levels. And I know there are questions about the top quality, but you do
need farm systems and you will a combination of things that focuses on
community interest. The last presenter
was quite adamant about that and I believe all that, I think that that
happened. I also think you need things
like theatre groups do, where you do have a place for people to work at a
junior level. So you have a cost
structure that's different but you have a progressive environment and you have
interests with people in the area, whether it's news gathering, whether it's
filmmakers, producers, editors, people will participate and I believe that very
strongly, that the quality will be there.
3764 Quickly
slip through this thing, I certainly, while I'm in the communications business
I don't buy a lot of TV because I know that we could line up more folks to
participate through the television medium, I know we can. I know the client base, I know the potential
clients that are out there, that are attached to certain types of shows that
sort of thing. There is a need, there
would be a use. Print, still, while a
wonderful thing, print still kind of -- you think paper, you think flat. The interactive side of life is still kind
of a good passive thing. Television is
still the hottest medium when you get good at it, its still a [inaudible]. And any business's ability is governed by a
need to market quality product and market quality product in a positive
way. Whether it's a television station
--
3765 Torstar
can't have a station -- stations that don't work well, it reflects on their
reputation. That detracts from the
entire organizational value. You can't
operate a business that way. You have
to have that kind of quality match up or your corporation starts to go strange
and you won't like it from a value base.
I guess in -- so that means they're going to make investments, they're
going to return and have value that way.
3766 I
think that change, as I said earlier on, is a human condition that needs to be
nurtured, it's healthy, it allows us to innovate, to take risks, to improve,
and I think we need to enhance the competition across the board that way. Thank you very much.
3767 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Earle. You were describe -- or describe yourself,
your company rather, as a communications and advertising company. Do you actually place advertising in other
than the television medium for clients?
3768 MR.
EARLE: Sure, yes, I do.
3769 THE
CHAIRPERSON: But you don't on TV at the
moment?
3770 MR.
EARLE: No, we have done, but it's a not
a big player with us and that's because of, you know, on the regional basis and
that cost structure for certain kinds of clients. Now another reason too is certain kinds of clients where we do
more business-to-business types of things where there isn't that kind of need
across the client base.
3771 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I suspect that the large part of your
presentation at the beginning would be what you describe as a -- the
development of mini economies. When you
talked about the Niagara region and so on is what you describe as
mini-development, the mini-economies in your written intervention?
3772 MR.
EARLE: Yes.
3773 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, we
appreciate your presence and your contribution.
3774 MR.
EARLE: Thank you.
3775 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
3776 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you Madam Chair we now
move to some intervenors who are supporting the Alliance Atlantis
application. The first one is Cineflix
Productions Incorporated, Mr. David York.
3777 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Morning, Mr. York.
INTERVENTION
BY CINEFLIX PRODUCTIONS INC./
INTERVENTION
PAR CINEFLIX PRODUCTIONS INC.
3778 MR.
YORK: Good morning. Madam Chairman, and Members of the
Commission, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to make an
intervention in support of Alliance Atlantis Broadcasting's application for a
local television licence in Toronto. I
am an Executive Producer and Vice President at Cineflix Productions. We are a leading producer of non-fiction
programming with offices in Montreal and Toronto, where I work.
3779 Cineflix
produces about 40 hours of programming a year for Canadian broadcasters
including LIFE Network, TV Ontario, CBC, Discovery Channel, WTN, Canal D and
Radio Canada. Through our affiliated
distribution company, we sell our programming around the world to broadcasters
in the U.S., U.K., France, Germany, Italy, Japan and other markets. Over the last three years, I have executive
produced two continuing documentary series for the applicant, through its
channel the LIFE Network. I believe
some of my direct experiences in working with Alliance Atlantis Broadcasting,
both on a programming and business level, are relevant to this proceeding and I
am pleased to have the opportunity to share them here with you today.
3780 When producing
programming for the LIFE Network, we do so in the context of a programming
mandate that is written and attached to our licence agreement. As well, central to our day-to-day dealings
with the network's production executives to whom we report. One of the key criterion in this production
mandate is diversity. A specific
example: we produce a documentary
series in Toronto for LIFE Network called Birth Stories. From day one, our production mandate was
explicit, in that the series would feature a diverse cast of characters, from
as wide a selection as possible of races, creeds, colours and socio-economic
backgrounds. As a result, characters in
the series so far have been white, black Asian, gay, Christian, Buddhist, a
stock broker, an ex-stripper, just to name a few.
3781 Beyond
that, this season our mandate was extended to represent a mix of suburban,
inner city, rural, and small town characters.
In this way the series mirrors the range and diversity of the city where
we work. Given that a further criteria
of the series is that we must show every character giving birth on screen, this
has frankly presented us with major challenges including several long,
late-night drives out into the countryside trying to get to an impending birth
on time. However this trouble has been
worth it, both on screen and in that our British and U.S. broadcasters also
make the same demands of us with respect to on-screen diversity.
3782 This
mandate clearly extends to other LIFE Network programming. A look at their Real Life Stories slot which
runs weekdays from 8:00 to 10:00 p.m. would show the same qualities across the
programming block.
3783 Now,
turning to the business side, we finance our programs with Canadian licences on
cable, second window terrestrial licences, tax incentives and foreign
presales. Especially in these economic
times we need to maximize revenues from each of these sources in order to
finance our shows. Specific to the
context of this hearing, independent producer like ourselves must capture
revenue from each of the distribution platforms and the Canadian television
system: cable, specialty, digital and terrestrial.
3784 In the
past we regularly sold first window rights and programs to the cable network,
then sold the second run to public broadcasting networks such as CBC, TVO and
Knowledge Network. As budgets and shelf
space have shrunk at the public broadcasters, the number and value of these
sales has decreased. It is therefore
critical that we have an alternative terrestrial distribution outlet for our programs. The commitments made by Alliance Atlantis in
this application of 42 percent of gross revenues earmarked towards Canadian
programming, with 75 per cent of priority programming commissioned from
independent producers, would make this service an invaluable source of finance
for our kind of programs.
3785 Speaking
for ourselves, I see no problem in these first and second window licences being
sold to services that are owned by the same company. For us, the cost of development and series startup are more
onerous in the first year of series.
Our company's financial health depends on renewals of series for
subsequent seasons. Since such
renewals are based primarily on ratings, it is to our advantage to broadcast
groups coordinate marketing and coordination of our series over two
networks. This maximizes ratings,
maximizes returns, and better positions our series for renewals.
3786 I see
no particular danger in Alliance Atlantis using it to market strength to cut
its licence fees in distributing programs over these multiple platforms. Over the last few years we have had second
window offers on programs that Alliance Atlantis has chosen to match, and some
it has not chosen to match and this has been our choice made on a business
level.
3787 My
final comment on this proceeding is that is on the subject of personnel. Again, speaking for ourselves, the biggest
single factor limiting our company's growth is the small size of the talent
pool of available senior creative talent.
This year, for the first time we have had to import talent from outside
of Canada just to meet our production commitments. Not too long ago when there were only three or four outlets for
programming, this was not the case, but now the talent pool has spread out over
dozens of outlets and major production companies.
3788 One of
the impressive things about Alliance Atlantis Broadcasting is its concentration
of top talent, in-house, in documentary, news and current affairs,
entertainment and drama. In my view,
this concentration of talent is unique in the private sector and gives me
confidence that this service, if licensed will be well positioned to survive
and prosper. I cannot underestimate the
value of this resource, or overestimate the challenges faced by any applicant
who does not have a similar talent base already.
3789 I
would like to deviate from my written text now for a moment and address some
comments to the $10,000 documentary that you have heard discussed already. And again, I will echo the question of
ratings. As said before, we depend on
our survival for ratings because that's what renews our series and I know how
competitive this marketplace is because I look at them every week and I know
that on weeks when our ratings on our series that don't hold, that's a jeopardy
week and especially when we get up into episode six or eight of a series,
that's when broadcasters started making decisions as to whether to renew or
not.
3790 Now
ratings depend on many things, but one of the central things they depend on is
production value and from my stand point, the idea of a $10,000 documentary
dooms that documentary to not competing in this marketplace for ratings. Our series Birth Stories we produce it for
about $160, $170,000 per hour and our shows range from $160 to $200,000 per
hour and we don't make -- we're -- none of us getting hugely rich off this, but
that's what it costs to make this kind of show.
3791 Some
things we have heard as offsetting that are archives. Well, I have also made history programming and the idea of free
or, you know, provided stills archives is great, but for history programming,
you really need moving picture archives.
History shows that depend for their story telling on just stills, they
just won't compete in the marketplace for ratings. And moving picture archives, that costs around $2,500 Canadian
per minute. So this is a very, very
expensive business.
3792 Further,
on the question of services, every time I hear the idea of a broadcaster
providing services to us as an independent as part of a deal I just
cringe. Because we're a production
company and we make our money from production and after-sales, but we also make
our money from making an investment in equipment and using revenue from the
rental of that equipment in the production to us at that cost. And the idea of a big services package being
part of the deal, that really -- that would probably take out 25, 30 per cent
of our revenue per year.
3793 So
what this comes down to, to me, is a philosophical question as to what kind of
service the Commission actually wants to licence. I feel for some of the other independent producers who sat in
this chair already today because I have also come up from the school of making
shows for you know, not quite $10,000 per half hour, but $20, and it's very,
very tough row to hoe. The first
producer who is up here making for $10,000 a half hour, at the end of her
presentation she said she was getting out of the business and not doing it
anymore. $10,000 half-hour
documentaries serve no useful purpose for the independent production sector in
my view.
3794 In
terms of the kind of -- in terms of kind of shows that are going to be on the
services, you need to decide what kind of service again you are trying to
licence because a service built around cooking shows, talent shows, shopping
shows, that kind of programming is already available on community access cable
and it's pretty well served on community access cable. And in my view, when you're looking at
licensing a television service for the biggest city in the country, the sixth
biggest media market in North America, in my view, you should be setting the
hurdle rather higher than that. That
concludes my comments, thank you.
3795 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Commissioner Cram, please.
3796 MS.
CRAM: Thank you, Mr. York actually, you
have explain yourself very, very well, I really had sort of a not -- well, in
my mind not frivolous but a question, a personal question. Has Dogs with Jobs been extended for another
season?
3797 MR.
YORK: It has.
3798 MS.
CRAM: Very good. Thank you for coming.
3799 MR.
YORK: Thank you.
3800 THE
CHAIRPERSON: We have dog lovers
here. Commissioner Wilson, you have --
has a question.
3801 MS.
WILSON: Well I want to know if you
would like to audition my dogs for that show.
3802 MR.
YORK: If they have a job. If they don't have an interesting job they
can't be on television.
3803 MS.
WILSON: They have very interesting
jobs.
3804 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Very interesting being
Commissioner Wilson's dog.
3805 MR.
YORK: By definition I suppose.
3806 MS.
WILSON: To which you would respond of
course I'll audition them. With respect
to your comments about production values, I know that lots of people say today
that people don't watch channels, they watch programming, and wherever the
programming is they want to see they will go to that channel. And when you be talk to people they often
don't identify channels by Life Network, Bravo, History, they identify it by
its cable position. It's on channel 27,
you know, they may not know that's Life Network or Newsworld or whatever it is.
3807 You
know, I am wondering if people feel really strongly that are not seeing
themselves on television and I am I guess the idea I am pursuing is there are
different kinds of programming. And
what you do is one type of programming that serves one audience that wants to
see that kind of stuff that they can feel some connection to it, but if people
feel like they're not seeing themselves on television, and someone goes about,
you know, really sort of exploring an attachment to a particular community, and
they use that as their drawing card, do you think viewers might be more
forgiving?
3808 And
when I say more forgiving, I mean I want to see like the $10,000 an hour
documentary let's say that Ms. Sweeney has done for WTSN, where really that was
just a portion. She has done a whole
series so she can amortize costs and you have some different kinds of supports
that are being brought to that so the actual cost is really more than
that. More than the $10,000. But do you think that people might not be
more forgiving about the production value if they feel some kind of an
emotional connection to what they're watching?
You know if they're turning on and if they see the main street of their
home town being explored, whether it's a because it was someone who lived there
a documentary or biography is being done about that person. I think I would be more forgiving, and
that's why I'm asking. Because you
know, I worked at a channel that didn't have -- a lot of people say it didn't
have high production values but I was fascinated by the subject matter. It was the kind of programming I would watch
anyway because I wanted to have that information, I wanted to be exposed to
what it was offering.
3809 MR.
YORK: I don't have access to market
research on this, so I can't --
3810 MS.
WILSON: I'm asking for your opinion.
3811 MR.
YORK: -- I can't answer a question like this objectively. But my opinion especially in an urban market
like Toronto is, where there is a huge amount of choice on the dial already, I
think that people watch programming.
Back to what you said. And I
think that when people want locally focused -- locally focused, locally
identified programming, you know, they're going to watch local news but they're
going watch is it for that reason. But
as far as prime time scheduling goes, I think people watch programming.
3812 And --
and certainly a show like Birth Stories which we shoot a hundred percent in
Toronto, probably gets a rating spike in Toronto compared to other cities
because we, you know, identify Toronto really strongly in the show -- you know,
every hospital is named you know, every neighbourhoods are named that the city
is clearly identified. It probably gets
a ratings spike in Toronto, but probably not a huge one.
3813 MS.
WILSON: When you say Toronto what are
you referring to? The City of Toronto
proper? Markham?
3814 MR.
YORK: We have shot everywhere from
Guelph to Ajax. Probably around,
probably around half of the characters are metropolitan Toronto and the other
half are outside, suburban.
3815 MS.
WILSON: I wasn't asking so much for
marketing research so much as for your opinion as a producer.
3816 MR.
YORK: Like I say, I think the answer to
that question might vary depending where you are in the country but I think it
is a big competitive media market and I don't think people are going to be as
forgiving in Toronto as they are in other places.
3817 MS.
WILSON: Thanks.
3818 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
York. Mr. Secretary, please.
3819 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you Madam Chair we will
now hear from Reel Time Images incorporated.
3820 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Zuckerbrot good
morning.
3821 MR. ZUCKERBROT: Good morning. I hope forgive me I am not accustomed to situations like this and
I don't know the protocols.
3822 THE
CHAIRPERSON: There is not very much.
3823 MR.
ZUCKERBROT: That's appreciated.
3824 THE
CHAIRPERSON: If there is, as long as
you know I make the rules. So you have
10 minutes and we're all ears.
3825 MR.
ZUCKERBROT: I will stick to that
ruling.
3826 Well,
my comments in some sense only indirectly address the immediate issue at hand.
On the plus side I will be less than my 10 minutes. I have no sort of analysis of the industry; I am not the right
person to speak about that. I just
wanted to take advantage of the situation to talk about my personal experience
working with Alliance Atlantis because I think it has some relevance to the
matter at hand.
3827 By way
of introduction, let me say that I have been a producer/director for about 15
years. My wife and I have a small
production company, it's little literally a 'mom and pop' operation, it's run
out of our house, it's not a big thing.
Like many of my colleagues of a certain age, I began my career making
programs for the CBC. I worked mostly,
but not exclusively, as a freelance director/writer/producer for the Nature of
Things with David Suzuki, and I did that for many years. I mention that because I want you to know
that I have strong feelings about -- I didn't see myself as a television
producer, I saw myself as a filmmaker and I came out of that tradition. I had and have strong feelings about public
broadcasting and I had a great deal of suspicion about private
broadcasters. And you can imagine my
mindset a few years ago as I made my first forays into the then new world of
specialty channels. Then I directed a
documentary for the Alliance Atlantis channels and I assumed, I was quite sure,
that I would be dealing with a huge soulless company that would be unresponsive
to my interests as a filmmaker, to my perspective as a filmmaker. In fact, I didn't think they would
understand that kind of language to talk about a filmmaker's perspective. I expected to find people solely concerned
with the bottom line. And I was sure
that my interests as a new small independent producer and the interests of this
huge corporation would be inherently at odds.
3828 Instead
of the cynicism I expected, instead of a single focus on acquiring cheap
programming, I was really shocked to find people who had a sincere interest and
deep commitment to the quality of the work that we were doing. At this point I have worked for -- worked
with Alliance Atlantis in a number of capacities. I have worked as a gun for hire for other production companies,
directing programs and writing. I have
produced and directed programs directly for Alliance Atlantis and I, as an
executive producer for my own company, have supplied them with documentaries. In all these variations I have consistently
found support for the making of challenging and innovative documentaries. That was astounding to me. I just can't express to you how astound that
was.
3829 For
example, I directed and wrote a biography of Northrop Frye for History
Television. Now if that would have been
for public broadcast it's not - it's a reasonable thing, but it is not on the
surface an attractive choice of subject.
They could have easily asked me to change it for a bio of a hockey
player or a TV star rather than an intellectual. They could have demanded a more conventional approach to the
material. We took very unusual computer
graphics and combined them with performance pieces and welded that all together
with traditional documentary technique.
That was all very risky. And
they were willing to take chance. I
remain impressed at their willingness do that that. This year, those same people allowed me to try out a new
director, a young director, on one of their flagship shows. It's easy to pay lip service to ideas like
helping to develop young, you know, new Canadian talent. It's easy to say; it's a more difficult
thing to put your money where your mouth is.
It's not something that I expected to necessarily to find in the private
sector.
3830 I'd
like to touch on this question of money and the making of these shows, but if I
may continue for a moment I'm going to come back that. Part of that issue revolves around certain
words that people use. People talk
about new technologies, digital technologies that make production
inexpensive. That's true to some
extent. I bet that was the first person
to direct and produce a documentary shot on mini digital cameras for a network
when those cameras were first available, so I think I have a bit of experience
with that, with that issue. The problem
really -- I'm sorry, let me come back to that. What I was getting at is that there are all kinds of documentaries
to be made, and there is a need for all kinds of venues for those documentaries. I know that some of my fellow filmmakers are
dismissive of the kind of filmmaking that appears on Life Network, but Life
Network has provided an important venue for new types of cinema verité
documentaries and I think I would include things like Birth Stories in
there. Certainly I would include, from
my personal experience, Circus, a 13-part half-hour series in its first year,
26 half hours this year, where we followed a Canadian circus around small town
Ontario documenting the daily lives of people in the circus. That's a kind of variant on verité cinema on
a scale that's never been done before -- not just Circus, but this whole new
style of broadcasting. Not even in the
heyday of the NFB, in the origins of direct cinema, were things on that scale -
six hours, 12 hours, 13 hours - produced.
In conversation with some of the Canadian pioneer filmmakers who started
that movement, all of them recognize the importance of shows like Circus and
Birth Stories and the importance of those venues. It's a remarkable thing.
It's not something to be dismissed as a cheap way of filling air
time. I have been making films for a
few years. Many of them were high-end
documentaries. In my opinion, few of
them were as good filmmaking as what we have done on Circus.
3831 I have
spoken -- well, how does it all relate to the issue at hand? From my perspective as a filmmaker, my --
from my experience as an independent producer, and much to my surprise, the
growth of Alliance Atlantis has been good for my business. Alliance Atlantis does not seem obsessed
with vertically integrating its production and broadcasting; they haven't tried
to crush our independent company.
Instead, we found mutually beneficial situations that allowed my little
company from producing an occasional hour or two to producing 17 hours this
season alone, allowing me to give work to other freelancers, technicians,
post-production companies and so on. I
imagine that the same direction, the same -- the same direction will hold true
of any new channel that they develop.
3832 Seems
to me as well that in my dealing with at least two of AAC's channels and with
their documentary production arm, I have discovered an ethos that I assume
imbues their whole company. When
discussing possible shows with the people at History Television, they have
insisted on the importance of a multicultural vision of history, of an
inclusive kind of programming. And they
clearly realize that this won't happen unless they intentionally focus on it
and make that happen. Again, I assume
that that would be the position of this channel in question.
3833 Just
in conclusion, I am not the right person to speak about the financing of
documentaries, my partner, my wife, knows a lot more about it than I do, but
she's busy working. The notion of a
$10,000 documentary however, there is a lot of problems around it, there's no
doubt. You all understand, you can make
a documentary for whatever amount you say, it's a kind of meaningless question
whether there's a $10,000 documentary.
You know, you can rent a camera for $150, buy a tape for $15, shoot it
and call it a documentary. Anything
more serious than that becomes problematic.
I don't know what a big company pays for insurance. I know that our little company, because we
don't do a lot productions, our insurance costs would eat up, I don't know, a
tenth of that anyway on one production.
So unless you give insurance - I'm not talking about errors and
omissions insurance, I'm just talking about insurance. The kind of productions that we do, for example,
I produced this year three hours for History Television for the series The
Canadians. That's primarily built out
of stock shot and stills, archival stuff.
Those shows cost around $200,000.
It's not quite enough to do them as well as we would like. The financing of those is extremely
difficult because there is no -- because they're so Canadian, they're not going
to have a lot of sales later on. To
make it possible, the broadcaster puts in a licence fee about half of the cost
of making that. Now there is a $100,000
licence fee. Those aren't high-end
documentaries; they're kind of mid-range, solid stuff, but certainly not
something that could be done for 10,000.
But really the other point is that they are done with a lot of licence
fee money, eh, so that broadcast licence fee triggers RFP, doesn't trigger EIP
in this case, but to be eligible you have to be, it has to be a national
broadcast. Regional broadcasts aren't
eligible as I understand it for LFP. So
that whole funding thing that a broadcast licence fee implies in the larger
market wouldn't hold true. So if
someone was selling for WTN, for example, a $10,000 documentary, if that was a
large enough part of their budget, that would trigger other financing that
wouldn't be true, I don't think, in a case like this, of a regional broadcast,
I mean a non-national broadcast.
3834 So you
need some way of ganging those together, of having a national broadcaster to
trigger other financing, otherwise you really are talking about $10,000. Furthermore, even if it's a national
broadcaster, that way whatever other things came into play, couldn't be
deducted from the licence fee. So you
can't say: Okay, we're going to give you a licence fee of, you know, $30,000 and
$20,000 of it will be in trade, so there's a lot of problems talking about that
$10,000 documentary.
3835 Same
way when we talk about things like, you know, economies of scale. There is certainly a difference between a
one-off, a one-hour documentary and doing a 26 half-hour series, but the economies
of scale are quickly realized. They are
not infinite, they're very quite specific in fact. They don't drop the $10,000 documentary -- they don't drop an
$80,000 documentary to a $50,000 documentary.
They drop a little bit around the edges.
3836 Anyway,
I just wanted to thank you for this opportunity to address you. I hope that's of some use, it's a rather
specific focus.
3837 THE
CHAIRPERSON: You are just about to hit
by Mr. Cussons over there. I discovered
that we do have some, so you stopped right at the 10-minute mark it would
appear, or 11 perhaps. We thank you for
your participation, Mr. Zuckerbrot. And
our greetings to your wife.
3838 MR.
ZUCKERBROT: I will pass it along.
3839 THE
CHAIRPERSON: I hope she is not upset by
the figures you couldn't provide and did.
3840 MR.
ZUCKERBROT: She would be able to with
more accuracy.
3841 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr. Secretary, please.
3842 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you, Madam Chair. Our next intervention will be presented by
Breakthrough Films and Television, Mr. Ira Levy.
3843 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Mr.
Levy. Just polishing on my
protocol. Go ahead when you're ready.
INTERVENTION
BY BREAKTHROUGH FILMS/
INTERVENTION
PAR BREAKTHROUGH FILMS:
3844 MR.
LEVY: Good morning, Madam Chair and
Commissioners, on behalf of my partner, Peter Williamson and our company,
Breakthrough Entertainment, I would like to thank the CRTC for the opportunity
to speak in support of Alliance Atlantis's application for Greater Toronto
Television, GTTV. I support GTTV, both
as an independent producer and because the GTA is my home. I was born in Hamilton and am living and
working and raising a family in Toronto.
As an independent producer, I know from experience that Alliance Atlantis
values its relationship with the independent production community and works
with producers to create programs that reflect the diversity of their viewers.
3845 And
nowhere is there greater diversity than in the GTA. With a population now totaling over five million people, nearly
40 percent of whom were born outside of Canada, Toronto has become a
fascinating and diverse megacity, one the United Nations calls the most
multicultural city in the world. AAC
Broadcasting hold a mirror up to that diversity with programming that reflects
our ethnic, cultural, socioeconomic, sexual orientations and religious
differences. Amazingly, given the
growth and evolution of Toronto as a world class city and its surrounding area,
television currently reflects only one very localized downtown Toronto voice. And while the CHUM media group has done an
excellent with CITY TV, I agree with the CFTPA president, Elizabeth MacDonald,
when she says if a new station purports to really speak to Toronto and if it
adds something really new, really original, really authentic, then it should be
licensed. I believe GTTV is such a
station.
3846 When
Peter and I started producing documentaries 20 years ago, we had a vision
similar to what Alliance Atlantis has for GTTV. Our first documentary, called appropriately enough The
Breakthrough, serves as an example of the type of programming if believe GTTV
can provide. It was a story about
people with cerebral palsy without the ability to speak, learning to
communicate through a symbol language known as bliss symbols. It was shot in and around my hometown,
Hamilton, and the GTA. But it was far
from just a local story. The courage,
compassion and humanity of the people profiled in that film encompasses
universal dreams and challenges that reflect the desire we all have to
communicate with our family, friends and community. The Breakthrough won the award for the best independent
production in 1981 and premiered at the United Nations, proving that shows
produced in Canada, specifically in the GTA, can reach an audience here and
around the world. I believe GTTV, in
partnership with independent producers, can be a major catalyst in ensuring
such productions continue. This desire
to communicate stories both locally and internationally was our aim when we
produced our first television series, the popular children's show The Adventures
of Dudley the Dragon. The show began
with a regional broadcaster, TVO; it was popular with local audiences and it
was soon being broadcast across the country and eventually sold to countries
around the world, including the U.S., Mexico, the U.K., South Africa and many
Asian countries. The success of Dudley
jump-started our company. Our business
has expanded to include documentary series, feature length movies, television
movies, lifestyle series, dramas and children's series. But Breakthrough really owes its continuing
growth to the arrival of specialty channels in Canada and, in particular,
successful partnerships with AAC Broadcasting.
3847 This
is a major reason why I support the GTTV application. Alliance Atlantis has shown its continued support of independent
producers through their specialty channels such as Life Network, Showcase,
History Television, and more recently Discovery Health. We were there when Life Network first
launched, producing 110 episodes of a cooking show entitled What's For
Dinner. Five years and 500 shows later,
What's For Dinner proved a success both for Breakthrough and AAC Broadcasting,
as well as a cult hit among Canadian viewers.
By the end of this year, Life Network will have partnered with our
company alone on over 300 hours of original Canadian programming. AAC Broadcasting has always shown a strong
commitment both to independent producers and viewers to provide programming
that entertains, informs and reflects the cultural diversity of their
audience. A perfect example of this is
a more recent production between Breakthrough and AAC Broadcasting, Little
Miracles, a documentary series that tells the stories of patients and staff at
the world-renowned Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto. The hospital is a virtual microcosm of the
GTA, a city within a city, and the many different faces in the series reflect
the city's diversity.
3848 Without
Life Network Little Miracles would not have happened, and without the support
of Alliance Atlantis the series would not be the great success it has become
among viewers, the patients and the hospital itself. And while the series is locally based, the content is compelling
and universal. Indeed, Little Miracles
is now seen in many countries around the world. AAC Broadcasting's commitment to informative and compelling
programming with a local flavour does not end there. With the success of Little Miracles, they commissioned a third
series now in production. McMaster is a
documentary series that follows the stories of medical students from different
backgrounds at McMaster University here in Hamilton. McMaster is slated to air on both Discovery Health and Life
Network.
3849 Again,
it is this type of commitment to diverse local stories with universal appeal
that Alliance Atlantis would bring to GTTV.
The numbers alone for the proposed GTTV speak to Alliance Atlantis's
deep commitment to local independent production companies. They include a firm commitment of at least
75 per cent of priority programming to come from independent companies.
3850 And
not only is Alliance Atlantis committed to many hours of independently-produced
programming, they're also willing to pay for it. An estimated $19.3-million for independent production during
their first license term is a significant commitment that should be recognized
and applauded. Also,
41-and-a-half-hours per week of local, new local original programming,
including eight hours a week in peak viewing time, 7:00 p.m. until 11:00 p.m. This is significant because even though GTTV
will be a local station, the numbers represent the same levels of commitment as
our national broadcasters. AAC
Broadcasting is also committed to commissioning a new prime time dramatic
series, 26 half-hours of original drama to be commissioned in their first year.
3851 AAC
has already shown that locally-based, independently-produced drama can work in
Canada. Can work in Canada. And when we
produced Paradise Falls for Showcase, it represented a new and affordable way
to produce Canadian drama. The show has
an Ontario cottage country setting, but it appeals to and is being sold all
over the world, including Scandinavia, France and Russia and ranks in
Showcase's top 10 shows.
3852 One of
the key commitments of GTTV is the promise to show feature dramas or
documentaries a minimum of five nights a week in prime time. This is significant because it ensures that
not only would Canadian shows be produced, they will actually be seen during
prime time television viewing hours.
These numbers not only show a commitment to independent Canadian
production, but they are also in accordance with the CFPTA's recommendations
regarding the latest CRTC applications.
As well as a sign of good faith and good business, Alliance Atlantis has
committed to negotiating terms of trade with producers through the Producers
Association. This will ensure the
producers' and creators' copyrights are protected. It also ensures their equity partners, including Canadian taxpayers'
dollars, through such funds as the Canadian Television Fund and Telefilm Canada
are protected and treated fairly.
3853 Of
course I could go on and on spewing numbers all day. But the fact remains quite simple: there is a need in this
growing multicultural city and its surrounding area for new and diverse voices
to be heard. I believe Alliance
Atlantis is the right company to ensure those voices are heard. Alliance Atlantis has the proven track
record, experience and desire to successfully program a new and innovative
television entity. After all, Alliance
Atlantis itself is a local success story, having started in Toronto, having
produced many of its projects in and around the GTA and having its worldwide
offices in Toronto, Alliance Atlantis has become one of the world's leading
entertainment companies. I believe GTTV
will been an excellent showcase for Canadian independent production, and will
hold a mirror to the cultural diversity of Toronto and area. It will allow local viewers to see, hear,
and tell their own stories; moreover, it is an excellent opportunity for
Canadians to learn from, entertain and enlighten each other. Thank you, again, for the opportunity to
speak here today.
3854 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Levy. Mr. Levy, do you know that at one of our
hearings in Hull, Dudley the Dragon appeared?
3855 MR.
LEVY: Yes, we had him come up and do a
song and dance.
3856 THE
CHAIRPERSON: I have a question: Were
you inside that costume?
3857 MR.
LEVY: No, but I was singing the song.
3858 THE
CHAIRPERSON: You were.
3859 MR.
LEVY: I won't sing it today, though.
3860 THE
CHAIRPERSON: I think it was at a television policy hearing, wasn't it? So we can say we met Dudley the dragon in
person, as well as on the screen. We
thank you for your ... Yes?
3861 MR.
LEVY: Again, if there are any
questions, because we do have a fair wealth of experience, I would say, in
terms of budgets and things like that.
I am certainly open for any of those questions. But I tend to concur with --
3862 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Are there any questions
you would like to answer even if they were not asked?
3863 MR.
LEVY: Yeah. Here's the thing. I think
that people who do television have a responsibility to viewers, and viewers,
like ourselves, like to see not only themselves but they like to see a certain
amount of quality. And I think quality
costs a certain amount of money. I
think we're very innovative in Canada in terms of producing shows. I think we can do it at a lot less than the
American model and have proven that we can, but I think if you get into numbers
that are so miniscule you really aren't producing for the audience that really
wants to be watching it. People like to
watch programming, they like to watch quality programming, they like to see
themselves in those programs.
3864 THE
CHAIRPERSON: We thank you for your
insights, Mr. Levy, and for your participation in our process. Mr. Secretary, please.
3865 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you, Madam Chair. We now have some intervenors that are
supporting the Craig application. I am
going to shuffle the order slightly to accommodate Mr. John Evans, I understand
he has an urgent appointment. So I
would invite Mr. Evans to come forward and present his intervention, please.
3866 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Morning, Mr. Evans.
INTERVENTION
BY JOHN EVANS/
INTERVENTION
PAR JOHN EVANS:
3867 MR.
EVANS: Thank you, Madam Chair and
Commissioners. And thanks for the
opportunity to speak for Craig Broadcasting and Toronto 1. I am an actor, have been an actor for about
30 years. I'm 25! And I am --
3868 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Lawyers can go to jail to
do things like that if you bill more than 24 hours in a day, you're in trouble.
3869 MR.
LANGFORD: And also I think you should
change your face cream. This brand is
not working for you.
3870 MR.
EVANS: It's not working. I am also on the national, I'm a national
councilor for ACTRA as well as a Toronto councilor, and I want to relate to you
an enlightening experience. I am
working with Enterprise Toronto, which is a city of Toronto initiative to
encourage small business in the Greater Toronto Area. I -- I put forward a mandate that I would put on stage the art of
business and part of that would be cross-cultural enterprise. So as part of my research I went to the
various minorities in the city to try to understand why it doesn't happen and I
observed when watching television that I felt that television does indeed
mirror our society in that each culture is ghettoized at this present
moment. It's ghettoized the same as our
community is. Indeed, it's a mosaic,
there are separations that are all too visible. So in trying to be a catalyst
to a cross-cultural enterprise, I asked each leader in each business community
what it is that stops them from working with other communities. After going through all of the racism and
all the rather tainted enlightened comments about exactly what this society is,
it all came down to one thing every time and that was understanding. And that was when I realized that the
theatre, which is -- and the arts in general, which is a forum for
understanding because it always presents protagonists and their points of view
and the audience is left to make conclusions.
3871 So I put
on stage actors of various ethnic minorities speaking about the stigmatisms
that are attached to them in a very amusing way, in a very entertaining way and
a very human way. The seating for our
little theatrical enterprise was 50; we ended up with 150, 200 people standing,
craning their necks, as an Asian person went up in front of them talking about
why it is that Asians are such bad drivers.
And she was not only riveting but she was entertaining and thrilling and
enlightening to aboriginal people, mainstream people and all of our
viewers. Of course you know there are
over a hundred languages that are spoken in our Toronto area alone. That person did more for multiculturalism as
we want it to be than countless hours of the 'something' show, the 'something'
show, the 'something' show, of which we don't really want to clue into because
it's so ghettoized.
3872 Craig
Broadcasting and Toronto 1 assures me they will be open to the notion of
cross-cultural exchange, shows where there are true efforts of understanding by
means of the theatre and the arts to really get at each other's sense of
humanity, sense of humour, sense of perspective and the human flow through this
plan. So we talk about local
programming, what I would suggest that Toronto 1 and Craig Broadcasting is
going to present is not only local programming but global programming. Through the arts, we could bring great
international plays and points of view to a small venue and bring a small
venue, if it has value, human value, to the world. And the argument about dollars I find very difficult to
accept. I have seen sensational pieces
of theatre and I come from the theatre so that's my frame of reference. I have seen -- sensational pieces, as you
know, come from small, very, very ignoble surroundings and I have seen rather
ignoble results come from huge expensive venues. When anybody wants to define what is good for an audience, I
immediately send up the red flag because I don't know think anybody really knows,
all they know is their own perspective, so to put a dollar value on qualitative
programming I find is a futile gesture, although it certainly is it a
factor. I don't hear a lot of talk
today about quality, about values, exactly what a broadcaster will not only
reflect what's out there, but show a direction, a mandate for change that's
acceptable to -- to Canadians.
3873 I have
also produced theatrical pieces for corporations because I feel like I am able
to bridge the gap between art and business, which is a wonderful marriage,
though some like to think of it as a prostitution, I think it's a self -- it's
a mutually nourishing experience. To
quote Northrop Frye, and my colleague will forgive me if I paraphrase
incorrectly, the mark of true sophistication is the ability to move from
culture to culture without anxiety. And
I truly think that Toronto 1 and Craig Broadcasting will bring that mandate so
that the lines between our ghettos are not so finely drawn.
3874 So in conclusion, I would like to comment
briefly on how one would judge after a year of granting a licence, I don't
think there is a measurement Madam Chair, in terms of how you say hey, you're
not fulfilling it, but I think a report card that comes out in the papers that
says this is what you have said -- even in terms of numbers, this is what you
have said you've done and leave the jury to be the public. Just to report the results. They said they were going to have this many
viewers, they said they were going to spend this many dollars, they said they
were going to have this many hours of certain kind of programming - did they or
didn't they? - as opposed to trying to
be a censor board and allow the public to be the censor.
3875 That
pretty much sums up my comments. But
finally, I would like to say Toronto 1: more local programming, more global
programming, more human programming, because ultimately we are, heroically,
together. Thank you.
3876 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Evans. There is nothing like getting an
actor to make an intervention. So you
projected well, we get your point.
3877 MR.
EVANS: Thank you.
3878 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I believe Mr. Secretary this is it for this
morning.
3879 MR.
CUSSONS: There is one more person I
believe is in the room, perhaps Madam Chair.
3880 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please, go ahead.
3881 MR.
CUSSONS: Artworks (sic) Theatre in
Toronto, Mr. Ronald Weihs. Mr. Weihs
has been here all morning.
3882 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Morning, Mr. Weihs.
3883 MR.
WEIHS: Good morning. I don't mind at all being here all morning,
it's been a wonderful, very interesting experience and I think a very exciting
exercise in democracy.
3884 THE
CHAIRPERSON: You could sell a
production idea here.
3885 MR.
LANGFORD: As long as there are no dogs
in it.
3886 MR.
WEIHS: Well, unfortunately I don't do
productions for television, but for the theatre. And so you would have to appear live.
3887 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Obviously.
3888 MR.
WEIHS: Madam Chair --
3889 THE
CHAIRPERSON: It's kind of brutal when
you read the transcript, I must say. We
don't have a script like theatre people have that you can memorize, you have to
improvise.
3890 MR.
WEIHS: Well, I think you're doing very,
very well.
INTERVENTION
BY ARTWORD THEATRE/
INTERVENTION
PAR ARTWORD THEATRE:
3891 Madam
Chair, members of the Commission, I am the artistic director of Artword
Theatre, Mr. Secretary, a performance facility in downtown Toronto. We have two theatre spaces - just to let you
know who we are - one with 150 seats and one with 60 seats and an art
gallery. Artword is an anomaly in the
Toronto theatre scene in that we are not not-for-profit, but we behave as if we
are. For over -- we do indeed. For over nine years, we have been committed
to fostering new work by Canadians in Toronto in theatre, music and dance. I am intervening on behalf of Craig
Broadcast Systems Inc. because their application addresses something that I
have been waiting a long time to hear: a commitment to fostering a link between
live performance in Toronto and television.
The growth of theatre, music, dance and other forms of live performance
in Toronto over the last two or three decades is a truly remarkable
phenomenon. I cannot think of any
parallel anywhere. Here are a few facts
about the Toronto theatre scene, courtesy of the Toronto Theatre Alliance:
Toronto is recognized as the third largest theatre centre in the English-speaking
world after New York and London. In
1962 there were only two professional live theatres in Toronto, there are now
over 200 professional theatre and dance companies, including nonprofit and
commercial theatres, there were over 10,000 live performances in Toronto last
year. On average there are 75
productions playing each month, appealing to a wide range of tastes and
budgets, musicals, dramas, comedy, children's theatre, dinner theatre, French
language theatre, native theatre, avant garde theatre and more. Some shows are translated into American sign
language. More than seven million
people attend theatre in Toronto each year, half of which are visitors to the
city. In 1993, UNESCO Toronto as the
most culturally diverse city in the world.
This is reflected in the hundreds of theatre and dance performances and
festivals produced annually which are culturally inclusive. There are over 90 theatre venues in the
metro Toronto area, from converted fire halls and factories to beautifully
restored vaudeville houses and modern performing arts complexes.
3892 You
will forgive me for having just run over that list, but I wanted to actually
express the magnitude of the artistic effort that is going on right now in
Toronto. This is an enormous Canadian
resource. It has been largely
disregarded by the Canadian television industry, in my view. There is a great gulf between live
performance on one hand and film and television on the other. There is hardly any communication between
the two worlds. Television cherry-picks
talent in live theatre, but largely ignores the works that are being produced
there. The effect on the television
side is that untried works are developed at considerable expense, I believe,
without being tested before an audience.
For theatre and dance, the effect has been isolation and a high-culture
ghetto. On December 5th, the
Film and Television Action Coalition and Made in U.S.A. Foundation filed
complaints with the U.S. Commerce
Department (we all know about this) against Canadian incentives for film production. One of the spokespeople, Brent Smith,
declared: There is no such thing as Canadian culture.
3893 There
is more going on here than simple ignorance.
10,000 live performances in Toronto, 75 productions playing each month,
but virtually none of this is reflected in the mass media. Mr. Smith can be pardoned for not knowing
that there is a Canadian culture - how would he know? Live theatre, dance and music in is a period of explosive
growth. The opportunities for
successful commercial exploitation of these cultural resources are
manifold. What is required is a
symbiotic relationship between television, film and live performance, and
that's what I've been looking for in these applications.
3894 The
Toronto -- this will not be so easy to establish, because there are currently
great differences in outlook, working style and experience between the people
working in mass media and those in live performance. The first step in building a symbiosis is to start working together
and sharing experience.
3895 The
Toronto 1 application proposes some steps in the right direction. Its commitment to building Canadian
programming based on the cultural activity happening in Toronto is what I have
been waiting to hear. Second City is
such an obvious candidate for programming that it amazes me that it hasn't
happened already and it is very significant to me that the Toronto 1
application focuses on Toronto's multicultural character. We sometimes talk as if cultural programming
and multicultural programming were two different things. In Toronto today there is no
distinction. Toronto is not a melting
pot, it is a conglomeration of distinct cultures based, not just on ethnicity,
but on sexual orientation and group identification. Much of the exciting work being done currently explores what is
specific in these cultures. At Artword,
we are fascinated by this new energy and we love to have it in our
theatre. Generally we have found that
works pitched at specific groups have a special electricity and excitement not
always found in works directed to a hypothetical general public. And a wide audience discovers what is
exciting in what these particular groups have to say to themselves.
3896 To
find Canadian culture we have to look where it can be found and see how it is
expressing itself. Toronto has a unique
role to play as a magnet for cultural talent and energy. There is so much going on right now that
could be brought to a larger public, however it will not happen in one
step. Building the symbiotic
relationship between mass media and live performance will require breaking down
barriers and finding new ways of working together. The Toronto 1 application addresses this vision and it is the
only one that does so, to my mind. For
this reason, it has my enthusiastic support.
3897 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Weihs. Commissioner Langford.
3898 MR.
LANGFORD: Thank you for being so
patient and I am glad you enjoyed our live theatre. I hope it isn't of the
absurd, but I won't even ask in case I don't get the answer I want. What I'm interested in is how far your
discussions have gone or your visioning or whatever the current terminology is,
with the -- with Craig?
3899 MR.
WEIHS: With Craig Broadcasting?
3900 MR.
LANDFORD: Yes. In other words, what
kind of -- having spoken to them, you mentioned Second City and so did they
when they appeared before us, but what sort of things might we see on the
television if this goes through?
3901 MR.
WEIHS: I haven't spoken to them about
this, except to say that on the basis of what they were saying, this is what I
am looking for. But I am not a
spokesperson for Craig Broadcast. And I
am assuming that if they - if they were to undertake this, that I would very
much like to get in touch with them and say, 'Here is what I would think needs
to be done.'
3902 But I
am hoping that you will decide whether they will do what they say in this
area. I am saying to you, if this is --
if this is true, if this is what they are going to do, then I think that this
is what broadcasting needs in the Greater Toronto region because we have such a
unique pool. If we had to invent what
we have there, it would be an enormous effort.
And it's - they're not being exploited.
But no, I haven't had any talks with them about that, about how to do
it.
3903 MR.
LANGFORD: Thank you very much. Well, it's safe to say in the old war
movies, 'We have ways', you know, so we will do what we can. Thank you very much.
3904 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Pennefather.
3905 MS.
PENNEFATHER: I just wanted to get a
clarification. In your mind, are you
talking about bringing a live performance to television or taking the talent of
theatre and using it to produce television shows?
3906 MR.
WEIHS: I think that if you wanted to
demonstrate how this wouldn't work, a very good way of doing it would be to
bring a camera in and film something that's going on the stage. And the reason for that is that the energy
that, the acting energy that is required on the stage to reach an audience is
very different from the exacting energy on television. And that's why stage work on television
generally looks very stagey. But I
think that it could be adapted very easily to produce very effective
television. I don't know; I go back in
my own memory to things that I saw as a child on the CBC. I saw John Colicos doing the Brecht play,
Galileo. I saw an incredible production
of Julius Caesar. There were operas
being done, I forget the name of the director, that I still remember to this
day, Electra and Othello. And this was
excellent television. I don't know if
these things still exist? But I believe
that at that time what they were doing is bringing cameras in to live
performance but adapting it to the needs of television. I don't see why this can't be done today.
3907 MS.
PENNEFATHER: Thank you. I was interested because it is a form that is
very challenging.
3908 MR.
WEIHS: It is indeed.
3909 MS.
PENNEFATHER: That's why I asked you
what you were envisioning when you were talking about this.
3910 MR.
WEIHS: I would like to emphasize I am
not only speaking about theatre but also of music and dance. I think there is a lot of opportunity there
as well.
3911 MS.
PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
3912 THE
CHAIRPERSON: You know, Mr. Weihs, the
only operas we have had today, is CPAC, taping our hearings and mostly in Hull
and playing them during the night, so when I came home bragging that people had
recognized me in the stores, my husband reminded me that all this meant was
that I now knew most of the insomniacs in town.
3913 MR.
WEIHS: Well, I am a CPAC junkie. I watch a lot of CPAC.
3914 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your
appearance. Mr. Secretary, this is it
for this morning, correct? We will
break for lunch and we will be back at 1:30 to try to get all the Torontonians
to get back before the rush hour, although coming from Ottawa it's not clear to
me when it starts and ends in Toronto.
It only lasts 20 minutes at home.
Have a good lunch.
--- Recess taken at 1212/Suspension à
1212
--- On resuming at 1338/Reprise à 1338
3915 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Welcome back to our
hearing. Mr. Secretary, please.
3916 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you Madam Chair. I would
like to invite Mr. Ted Nolan to present his intervention please. Mr. Nolan.
3917 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, Mr. Nolan.
INTERVENTION
BY TED NOLAN/
INTERVENTION
PAR TED NOLAN:
3918 MR.
NOLAN: Good afternoon. First of all, the gentleman who presented
before me was an actor. I'm not an
actor. I am a former professional
hockey coach.
3919 THE
CHAIRPERSON: We like you all.
3920 MR.
NOLAN: All right. I am a former professional hockey coach in
the National Hockey League, I coached the Buffalo Sabers, and although I
pretended to act like a coach at certain times, sometimes I do have a little
bit of acting background in me.
3921 The
reason I am here is today is to speak for Craig -- not for them, but to be part
of their application for Toronto 1. And
the reason I got involved with it, I want to tell you a little story or a
little bit of background about why I'm here and why I think it's important. I
grew up in a small native community outside of the city of Sault Ste.
Marie. I managed to play professional
sports, I played with Detroit Red Wings, Pittsburgh Penguins, I even managed to
coach in the National Hockey League.
And I won the Jack Adams award in the National Hockey League that
represents the best coach in the National Hockey League, two, three years
ago. I managed to win the Order of
Ontario, a couple of honorary degrees from various universities, and I just
received an honorary doctorate from Algoma University, which is going to be
presented this coming June. And the
reason I tell you that is not to sit down and tell you about myself but, more
importantly, why I got involved with what I am doing and why I played
professional hockey and the things I tried to accomplish through my sport. And the biggest thing I try to accomplish, I
guess, is bring change, bring an awareness to certain groups of people and my
people, the First Nation people of Canada, and proving to people that you can
achieve certain successes in life if you're given the opportunity.
3922 And
about four years ago I was asked by Lisa Meeches, who has a program with Craig
Broadcasting, to do a program and it was called The Sharing Circle. And the
reason I got involved with it is because it got out to mainstream society, you
know, we don't have to tell everybody about sweetgrass ceremonies that we have
or the type of dancing we do at our pow-wows, but more importantly, to
demonstrate the unique people that we have in our cultures and society; that we
do have Olympians, we do have actors and actresses and doctors and lawyers, and
just to bring a whole different perspective.
3923 And I
think by doing that, changing people's opinion, I really believe that TV and
media has a real strong influence on doing that, changing perceptions. Everybody has certain perceptions. When I first went to the United States to
play hockey, a number of people down there asked me if I still lived in a
teepee and this is 1978. So changing
perceptions, and doing that. I think
with myself being involved with Craig and particularly with The Sharing Circle,
it brings out to the mainstream of society the type of people we really are and
we do have a lot to offer. I listened
to people speak here earlier today about the dog show and kid's programming,
and I think it's really, really important for mainstream society to see that
we, as First Nation people, have a lot more to offer besides seeing all this
Burnt Church instances that happen on TV, the gas sniffing situations. And what you try to do is make a difference
with the young people, I guess, and the kids always see negative things on TV
continuously. They're going to believe
that some things in life are not possible.
And on the flip side of that, if you bring out positive things - and I
think with Craig Broadcasting through The Sharing Circle, it does bring awareness
out to the mainstream society that we do have a lot more to offer.
3924 With
my profession, I had a chance to work with some of the best people in this
world of hockey and travel to Europe and work in the professional field.
3925 I will
share a story with you: One of the top defencemen in the National Hockey
League, his name is Adam Foote. I had
the privilege the coaching him in junior hockey in Sault Ste. Marie and, you
know, you go through drills and teach certain techniques of hockey and
hopefully it had an influence on his hockey development. I brought him up to Waminji, which is a Cree
settlement up in James Bay, the northern part of James Bay, and it's cold and
the kids don't have access to a lot of things, and I think the population is
about 300 people. We held a week-long
hockey school and we went through the hockey school, we got the chance to meet
with the kids in the community, went out and we fished, we cooked meals in the
teepee and we did everything culturally.
I received a call from Adam's -- Adam Foot's father about a week after
and he thanked me more so for that one week experience that Adam had with the
First Nation kids of James Bay, more than for the three years I had of coaching
him in Sault Ste. Marie, because it changed his perception of how he viewed
native people and how he looked at us and said: Oh, you guys do have some
brothers and sisters, you have feelings, you have emotions and all those things
that are associated with being human.
And they are the good qualities of people in life. But just doing that and bringing people to
being more aware of what people are doing.
3926 And I
was talking to Drew Craig last night and I mentioned we ordered pizza on the
Reserve four years ago. The pizza
delivery guy came down, dropped off the pizza.
And after he left, my brother shook his head and he says, 'Only for
you.' I said, 'What's that mean?' He said, 'They don't deliver pizza on the
Reserve 'cause they don't think we're going to pay for it and they leave.' And I looked at him a little bit and I kind
of lost track of a little of it, because it is all about perception, that --
and it's not that you don't pay, it's just gaining respect.
3927 And I
think through the Toronto 1 bid, with their involvement with diversity, I think
it's vital, especially with the big population we have in Toronto here with all
the ethnic groups. And we, as a First
Nation group, do have a lot to offer to mainstream society and we are much more
than just dancers at opening ceremonies and when they tried to get the Toronto
bid here for the Olympics, that want a little more participation than just the
opening with another song and pow-wow dancing.
We do have a rich culture. We
have some very exciting people in our communities and to show them to
mainstream - not just to our own people - but to demonstrate to the rest of
society that we do have. So that's why
I got involved with this application because it's going to bring a unique thing
that you don't usually see on television.
3928 I was
involved with professional coaching and I know the power of media. I know -- I remember getting the first TV
when I was about 12 years old, growing up on the Reserve and seeing those Tommy
Hunter shows and the Beverly Hillbillies and being involved with... I will close up here. I just want to, I've got one final thing
about the power of television. We went
to three national championships while coaching the Soo Greyhounds and obviously
you have to have technical expertise in the field of sport, but our way to get
ready for a game was to watch reruns of Get Smart. And everybody would ask us, 'Well, how do you get ready for technical purposes, how do you prepare
your team?' And ours was just to watch
Get Smart reruns, and it kind of loosens us up and got us away from what's
really important in life sometimes and it just kind of gets you away from
problems and TV inspires people
3929 And
through The Sharing Circle, I think it's a great -- a great way to demonstrate
to people that there is some really unique stories out there, stories that must
be told by aboriginal people. So I
would like to thank you very much for allowing me to speak. And sometime -- I just speak and I don't
write any notes or anything, I just speak from, hopefully from my feelings,
from within. I don't know if it's ten
minutes or eight minutes or whatever you have to do here. But I just really thank you for allowing me
the time to come here. I would like to
thank Drew Craig for asking me to be a part of this process because I think
it's very important.
3930 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Nolan. And
Mr. Nolan, Commissioner Cram has a question for you -- but I want to tell you
first that you may have destroyed a myth, if there is still one there, that
hockey players are not articulate.
Commissioner Cram.
3931 MR.
NOLAN: Oh.
3932 MS.
CRAM: Thank you, Mr. Nolan. I wanted to get your perception of what the
media portrays natives, Canadian natives, as in your view. And I'm -- when I say that, delete from your
mind Sharing Circle and APTN.
3933 MR.
NOLAN: I am quite glad you asked that
question because another thing I forgot to mention is I have been in a national
role model program worker for our national office now for about 25 years and we
have 633 bands across Canada, and I bet you I've visited almost 450 of them,
and you get to talk to kids about what statistics are -- that doesn't
matter. You just talk about kids and
what they perceive to be and in my situation with hockey. There was a little girl that walked up to me
in Winnipeg, Manitoba last summer - and not that you should be aware of my
situation in coaching, but I was unable to get a job in professional hockey now
for the last four years, even though winning coach of the year in my last job
there - and she looked at me and she said, 'I know why you're not working, it's
because of the colour of your skin.'
And she touched my skin and ...
Excuse me for a moment. That's
why I do what I do because it's very passionate. And trying to change the image that people have because I guess
our young people have a different perception, because that's all they see is
negative stories or why things don't work.
And I think it's about time that we are viewed as a body to make a
difference perception-wise, especially to the young people because they have a
view of -- they don't give us a chance.
They don't want to hear our stories, 'our' stories being told by 'our'
people. So I think that's what's really
intriguing myself, whether it's -- whatever television that we're -- what it is
or who is involved with it, as long as you give a voice to people that their
stories can be told. I think by doing
that, you give hope, you give inspiration to people. And I think that's why I do what I do in the off season. I never got involved with professional
hockey to say I was the greatest hockey player, which I wasn't, or even to say
I was the best coach in the world, but just to prove to people that it doesn't
matter where you are from, that you can achieve some successes. I think by demonstrating to people, because
our kids, they don't run around outside as much as they used to and they watch
that box quite a bit, and the images they see on TV and I must have seen about
200 reruns of the gas-sniffing situation that happened over in Labrador last
year and those have lasting impressions on kids. And I think on the flip side of it, if we show positive stories,
show inspirational stories, I think that could have a real positive -- positive
effect on young people.
3934 MS.
CRAM: And have you seen that aside from
APTN and Sharing Circle?
3935 MR.
NOLAN: To tell you the truth, no. I
have seen those negative stories and why certain things are -- you always hear
about land claims, you always hear about disputes, you always hear about
treaties. We're not talking about
treaties, we are not talking about land rights, we talking about inspiration to
get people inspired to be the best they can be, whether you are white or
native. And I think that's what our
kids are coming to. We have a whole
different generation now. We have a
very young population and I think 50 per cent, 55 per cent of our people are
under the age 25/27 years of age. They
are not growing up the way we grew up in the past. Now they want to go to university, they want to maybe go into
acting careers. We have some young
actors, we've got Adam Beach who just starred in a big major motion picture
that's going to be aired pretty soon.
We have Tina Keeper from North of 60.
And those are people that our people look up to. I go to their communities. I only scored five goals in the National
Hockey League, I didn't score that much, but they think I'm as good as Wayne
Gretzky! So, it's just that hope and
that inspiration that you give and I think, not to create the next Wayne
Gretzky or the next Adam Beach, it's about just giving hope to people that they
could achieve certain successes.
3936 MS.
CRAM: Thank you, Mr. Nolan. Thank you for coming and speaking with us.
3937 MR.
NOLAN: Thank you very much.
3938 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Nolan for
your participation and I hope you score again.
You certainly did today.
3939 MR NOLAN:
Thank you.
3940 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
3941 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you, Madam Chair. Our
next intervention is by Nomadic Pictures.
3942 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon.
INTERVENTION
BY NOMADIC PICTURES/
INTERVENTION
PAR NOMADIC PICTURES:
3943 MR. OAKES:
Madam chair, Commissioners, I appreciate the opportunity to fly out here
late last night to be able to support Craig Broadcasting for their bid to
Toronto 1. As a Canadian producer as
well as a viewer of their station, my name is Chad Oakes, I am co-chairman of
Nomadic Pictures. My partner and I run
a small TV and film production company in Calgary. We do about between about $4- and $10-million worth of production
a year. We opened our company in 1995
and I remember one of my first meeting seminars in late 1996. I was asked to come to a seminar hosted by
Craig Broadcasting on the potential of launching a new TV station in Alberta to
be called the A channel.
3944 What
was promised in that -- that seminar, or that information meeting, was for
Western Canadian producers mind boggling and almost too good to be true. Here was an opportunity for a local Canadian
medium-sized broadcaster committing to assist small and medium-sized production
companies with trigger licences to enable us production companies to get a film
green-lit. As you know, these trigger
licences - and I guess this is what I would like to talk about - are very
necessary for Canadian production companies, allows us to access the CTF funds,
allows us to access the secure portion of our financing, but also in Alberta it
triggers the Alberta Producers Grant which is the tax credit, let's say, the
provincial tax credit of Alberta.
Canadian producers, with the assistance of a Canadian broadcasters'
licence, if it's at a minimum qualifying level and goes through the CTF funds,
whether it be LFP or EIP, between the provincial tax credits and everything, as
you know could go up to 50, 55 per cent of one's budget, whether it be a
million, two or five or ten million.
That's astounding when we're dealing, and in my business to be able to
fund a movie with the rest of the financing to come down through presales in
foreign or U.S.
3945 As
with most pitches, I treated this meeting with a little bit of, I guess, grain
of a salt and I just hoped that through time there would be an opportunity to
find out what Craig's intention was.
Six months later HL granted a licence fee for a film called Ebenezer,
starring Jack Palance, Rick Shroeder, Amy Locane and Albert Schultz. This licence in turn was enough for us to be
granted the CTF funds and Ebenezer has gone on to be one of Canada's most
watched Christmas specials, not just here in Canada, not just down in the
United States through the Turner network systems, but around the world in
Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, et cetera.
The movie was made for Canadians by Canadians but it was made for people
around the world to watch. And I think
that - that was in '97 - and that set a mandate for our company, what type of
films that we do. I am not in the
documentary business and I can't
comment on what I have heard this morning with documentaries, so I am speaking
solely about feature films and movies of the week. What it did prove is that this system actually works and I thank
you for developing a system. I know it's continually being altered and changed
but the system in this scenario worked.
Since then, A channel has made me a believer, and of course other
producers in Western Canada in particular, that the system can work. And it employs producers, writers,
directors, actors, crew people, financiers, bankers. It's an example of what Canada can do in the international
market. Since then, as a company we
have been able to produce films with Craig's assistance, starring people, both
Canadians and Americans such as Sean Penn, Robert Downey Jr., Melissa Morano,
Patrick Dempsey, Malcolm McDowell, Richard Lewis, Kathy Moriarity, people such
as Jack Palance, Rick Schroeder, Albert Schultz, and the Michael Moriartys and
our own Jason Priestley. This year
alone, Elizabeth Berkley, Constance Manoir - I mean, it's a lot of names to
drop on you, but it works and it's an example of people coming together and
working as a group to make these films.
3946 The
bottom line is someone made a commitment of four-and-a-half years to us and the
Canadian production company -- the bottom line is someone made a commitment to
the Canadian production community and stuck to it, not only because they have
to but also because they want to. "A"
Channel has provided licences, not only has provided licenses but industry
insight, creative and business knowledge, which I think is important for all of
us producers to listen up on the cutting edge of technology. A case in point: We have a film in Western
Canada called White Lies starring Erica Eleniak, Monica Schnarr and our very
own Jann Arden, that opens in theatres tonight. Just last week we were asked whether or not we could put together
kind of a little 15-second trailer together, completely at no cost to us, so they
could actually help provide the theatrical support for this at no cost to
us. With this offer it gives us
awareness and is supporting independent producers where it's hard to find the
money do these kind of things.
3947 Nomadic
Pictures is just one of many companies in Western Canada that have worked with
Craig Broadcasting System in the last four years. Without their assistance I don't think we would be at a certain
level to say that we are going to be doing close to $20-million of productions
next year from a start-up company with two employees. If the Greater Toronto Area has the opportunity to have Craig
broadcasting in the area, I would strongly urge the Commission to consider the
application and allow Eastern Canadian producers to have access and advantage
of the Craig family, from their past assistance and support.
3948 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr. Oakes.
Commissioner Wilson?
3949 MS.
WILSON: Good afternoon, Mr. Oakes.
3950 MR.
OAKES: Hello.
3951 MS.
WILSON: I appreciate your journeying to
the east to talk about Craig's - the kinds of commitments the Craigs made and
fulfilled with you and things that have helped you grow.
3952 I
guess I want to ask you one question, more just to get your perspective on the
whole issue of diversity of voices in the broadcasting system. When I was getting ready for this hearing, I
was telling someone about who the applicants were and I mentioned that Craig
was an Alberta company and they said boy, you know, that would be really cool
to have an Alberta company come in to Toronto and really take a look at that
city, you know, through a local television station. You know, what a way to get diversity into the system. They might
see things that, you know, locals don't see because they see them all the time. What do you think of that idea? I mean, do you think there is anything to it
that, you know, the fact that they haven't been based here is going to give
them a much fresher perspective on what these communities are really all
about? Or is it a disadvantage in terms
of bringing diversity to the system - quite apart from ownership, diversity
and...
3953 MR.
OAKES: Right. I think, I'm a big
believer in competition, period, whether you're from wherever. When the Craigs came from Manitoba, we all
thought well, coming from Winnipeg they're going to show us Calgary guys what's
going on, and they proved it and did a grand job of it. Seeing them grow in my
very short five, six-year career as a producer, I can't see why not, why
wouldn't they come Toronto and succeed?
I think their approach, and just over lunchtime speaking with Joanne and
Drew and where their goals are, I mean, it's all about people, it's all about
their application submitted to you, surrounding themselves with people that
know the market or know the markets in other places, that are going to be able
to come here and quite frankly kick butt, let's say. The competition is good. I am not the only person that gets
broadcast licences out of the Craigs; there are dozens of producers in Western
Canada that do. Do I like that? No, but it makes me a better producer to get
bigger names, bigger stars and find better material, and I think that's
good. The end result is the consumer
who is watching it and I think that's the same as with being a broadcaster.
3954 MS.
WILSON: Thanks.
3955 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Oakes for
your presentation and your trip. I hope
you have a good one back.
3956 MR.
OAKES: Thank you.
3957 THE
CHAIRPERSON: And give our best to Mr.
Priestley.
3958 MS.
WILSON: And Jann Arden.
3959 MR.
OAKES: I will.
3960 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
3961 MR.
CUSSONS: Madam Chairperson, we will now
hear the intervention by Solo enterprises.
3962 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Ms. Stevenson, good
afternoon.
INTERVENTION BY SOLO ENTERPRISES/
INTERVENTION PAR SOLO ENTERPRISES:
3963 MS.
STEVENSON: Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you. Thank you for
the opportunity to speak today on behalf of Craig Broadcasting and our -- or
their application. I will just tell you
a little bit about myself and how I found out about the application and why I
am supporting it. Please forgive my
rough voice, I am trying to recover from that little cough thing that's going
around. I live in Toronto; I have lived
in Toronto or the GTA area since 1980.
I come originally from the suburbs of Montreal. I live currently at Toronto's waterfront at
Bathurst Quay, which has gone from an almost non-existent community to the
centre of the Toronto universe with all the development that is going on
there. We're involved in a lot of
community issues down there. I live in
an artist co-op called Arcadia. We are
the first artist co-op in Canada, not only are we completely artist-run, we
were voted within the top four of best run co-ops in Canada. And we are 110 units and we consist of
artists, and you have to be an artist to live in the building. I originally came in as a theatre student from
Ryerson when I applied, and I have since gone through studying music industry
management and theatre tech and working as a ticket agent. And I was trying to
find my niche in life and about three years ago I realized I wanted to work in
movies and TV. I got involved with the
liaison of independent filmmakers of Toronto, I studied script continuity and I
volunteered, and I volunteered, and I volunteered and I learned about the film
industry from being involved in it.
This year I became a member in community status with Nabet 700 CEP and
IFC 873 as a script continuity supervisor.
On September 11th, when the attack on the U.S. happened, that
affected not just myself but so many people, but I have not worked since the
12th in the union because the industry is so driven by the American productions
that when that incident occurred it affected all of us in most profound ways
and I realize that now would be a good opportunity for me to take advantage of
the slowdowns in the work that is happening here, not only due to that
incident, but due to work discussions with the unions down in the States,
because we're so driven here by what happens in the U.S. that everything that
happens down there affects us up here and in such a profound way. So I took the opportunity to take the skills
that I had acquired through my script work, from my continuity work and try to
apply them to producing. I did a lot of
praying this year and I asked God for direction on what I should be doing and
he told me to get back involved with the dance, with community arts, with
getting involved with things that were going to be inclusive as opposed to
exclusive, trying to find ways of bringing the communities together as opposed
to separating us. And I contacted a
dear friend of mine who I hadn't spoken to in years, named Niko Sobrera, who is
a performer who comes from Venezuela and who is involved in the underground, if
I can call it that, dance movement in the city. There is so much underground arts going on in this city of
Toronto that people are just not aware of because they don't get access to
it. And I contacted him about creating
some small dance pieces that we could get (inaudible) for and next thing I know
I got introduced to an arts organization called Open City and I am now currently
shooting a documentary on that, which we actually started shooting two days
ago. So I can officially say I am a
producer now, as of two days ago.
3964 The
first time I heard about the Craig Broadcasting application was on the
deadline, the November 8th. I
got an e-mail from a friend of a friend who was passing it on because our
network as independent artists in film and television is so strong through the
Internet, we're always e-mailing each other, we are involved in lists that come
down to us that keep us current in what's going on, and I received the e-mail
from a friend telling me about the application. And when I read it and I saw Toronto Life in there and I saw
Second City in there and I saw Toronto issues and I saw New Voices, this
appealed to me not only as a citizen of Toronto, but also as a crew member and
an up-and-coming producer of materials that I find would be supportive of that
nature of broadcast.
3965 And so
I enthusiastically wrote my letter of support that day. I mean, I was worried it wouldn't get in on
time being that I only found out about it, you know, four hours before
midnight. And I put other things aside
and I sat down and I wrote the letter because I think that -- the key word in
their letter, and I have Drew Craig's letter asking for support, and the key
thing that appealed to me was the idea that this was going to be inclusive and
that was the key word that I found that struck me, was that we're talking about
something that is trying to bring people together. And we have been so saturated over the last 20 years with
increasing violence in TV, increasing sexual content in TV and just -- I don't
watch the news at all. I catch my news
on the radio now because I don't want to be imprinted with all that negative
imagery. And when I hear of something
that's going to be addressing local Toronto issues, that is going to be
starting to highlight and give voice and vision to the people that are already
creating art in our city and giving them an opportunity to get a better, more
wide audience in our local market, because there is so many gifted people in
our city that we just don't know about.
And names that the arts community know of as, you know, local
celebrities to us, I could ask people in the city that aren't involved in the
arts community, you know, 'Have you heard of Alberta Watson?' And they have
they don't know who she is. 'Have you
heard of Adam Beach? Have you heard of Pam Matthews?' There are so many
talented, talented people that need to have an opportunity to be seen, and I
think that Craig Broadcasting, starting on a grassroots level and building,
make themselves more approachable to independent people who are trying to get
to that next level, because there is a whole community of that that exists in
our city that's been untapped. And I
think Craig is putting forth an application that's saying we're inviting people
to come in, we're willing to work with people, small and medium-sized
companies. And so I don't feel so
intimidated to be involved in something like that, I feel like I would be
involved with somebody that would be nurturing me. And also from a viewer perspective, this is -- I would have an
opportunity to be able to see people I know are gifted, who have been paying
their dues for 10 or 15 years, get a chance to be seen and get recognized for
the work that they've done. People like
Randy Hewson, you know, who has been around, who is an icon in the local city
and, you know, going into the dance world and going into the music world and
the idea of a night -- of a night variety show in prime time takes me back to
the days of, you know, the Donny and Marie Show or Sonny and Cher, or the Ed
Sullivan Show. These were shows we
built our days around, trying to get home to watch these and being able to see
these local people be able to get an opportunity to get some air time I think
-- I just would like to support it from that perspective.
3966 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms.
Stevenson. I hope that your cold improves although it sounds great.
3967 MS.
STEVENSON: Oh, thank you.
3968 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for
your appearance.
3969 MS.
STEVENSON: Thank you.
3970 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
3971 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you Madam
Chairperson. I would now like to invite
Ms. Joan Schafer to present their presentation.
3972 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, Ms.
Schafer.
3973 MS.
SCHAFER: Good afternoon, again. It's been a long time.
INTERVENTION
BY JOAN SCHAFER/
INTERVENTION PAR JOAN SCHAFER:
3974 MS.
SCHAFER: Thank you, Madam Chair and
Commissioners for allowing me this, what will be a brief appearance. My name is Joan Schafer and I come in
support of the Craig application, Toronto 1, what I like to call the village
voice. Over the years I have had many
different careers in broadcasting and in independent production and I wanted to
add my observations and support to your wealth of information and wisdom.
3975 I am a
believer in local programming both as a producer and as a viewer. I have my biases and I am proud of
them. My heart and soul is with the
independent producers, a very endangered species, bringing their creativity
through the financial gates and out to the audience. It's a steely business and not for the faint of heart, and in one
way or another I have spent some 20 years-plus creating, producing, licensing
and adding to financial programming.
Some people might feel I have had too many careers but when I look back,
they were all connected to programming, and with each career change I took I
got a different view, a little different perspective.
3976 But in
thinking about what I'm going to say to you this afternoon, I do find a common
thread with all of it. It always came down to the key people, their sincerity,
their energy, their honesty, their focus and their ability to stay in the
game. In the end it's only relationship
and track record and nothing else, of that I am convinced. Most recently as a completion guarantor, I
have interacted with a large number of independent producers across
Canada. I have seen how they handle
six, seven, eight beneficiaries in one project. Bids of financing from sometimes as many as 16 beneficiaries,
it's a huge administrative task for the producer but it takes all programs from
CTF, cable, tax credits, GATT financing broadcasting windows, everything rolled
into what is just getting a reasonable budget.
Every little bit helps. Every
little bit increases the whole. Toronto
1 will add to that pot for sure. And as
a bonder, I encountered "A" channel and its contributions to independents in
the West, sitting from my position in the East, I have to say. Their arrival gave and continues to give
producers in the West, and those who have projects destined for the West, an
additional source of financing. They built careers and grew independent
producers' careers and of course that translates into concepts and careers for
everyone in front and behind the camera.
In administrating those development budgets and licences, "A" channel
was amazingly free of the usual bureaucratic rigmarole. They chose carefully, moved quickly and they
gave concessions to the producers when the producer was at risk. For a bonder, they were trouble-free and my
company quickly came to know that "A" channel money was producer friendly
money, as well as cooperative with all other forms of financing.
3977 The
West has grown from the presence of Craig Broadcasting, A channel, with its
development and its licence fees. It
has bolstered existing producers like Bradshaw McLeod and Allusions' Bruce
Harvey, but has created a wealth of new producers like Nancy Lang and Nomadic
Films, just to name a few.
3978 Prior
to bonding I spent ten years working in Los Angeles working with independent
production on features in development.
I worked and lived in the unregulated world, Hollywood, Tinseltown. There the concerns are for
marketability. Will it be a hit? Licences such as the one you are considering
would never exist as a regulation, but what does exist driven by the market is
a proliferation of multicultural themes for movies and television, the faces of
their melting pot culture. The Bui
brothers from Vietnam with their Cannes hit, Three Seasons, a critical
hit. The rise of Robert Redford's
independent channel, with the diversity of cultures, budget size and themes. It
is the way of the world now chasing dragons, Jackie Chan, the Asian craze, that
Hollywood is still riding, giving us all heart that diversification of culture
need not only be regulated, that it bubbles up almost by itself.
3979 What I also observed in L.A. was a rise of
local stations with their digital cameras and their roaming into Chinatown into
worlds they have never been before and getting their audiences that allowed
them to survive. What surprised me is
how many and how advanced the specialty channels were 10 years ago. A lot of the channels that have come into
the Canadian market were already in the U.S. long before, music channels,
gardening channels, food channels, black channels, Asian channels. It's all
there with audiences and it wouldn't be there if it didn't make money. That much I learned in my stay in the United
States.
3980 As a
founder and VP of National Pay Television First Choice, before Los Angeles
there was First Choice, now The Movie Network.
I was one of the founders of pay and the VP of programming. We did win the pay licence and everyone said
it couldn't be done. It's hard to
believe now that no one knew what pay TV was. I remember Don McPherson, our
president, on CBC radio saying that free TV was in serious jeopardy. We couldn't see how the orderly marketplace
was going to emerge. The interventions
went on for days. My mother said that
she had never seen anyone talk so long about the subject. Everyone said that no one would watch it,
you couldn't produce programming for that little, and especially not in
1995. So every time a new entity comes
into the marketplace, a new concept, a new idea, the nay-sayers arise, the
critics emerge. But if it feels like
it's going to work, let the marketplace decide because the marketplace does
adjust, changes, adapts. New owners,
new financers but the idea prevails.
There was a market for pay and there were independents to program
it.
3981 I have
not followed all the ins and outs of those who object to the granting of this
licence because it erodes the existing ones.
I am sure they are worthy arguments but it seems to me that the dial
expands to meet the needs, that the marketplace finds a way, always has if
there is an audience. Pay taught me
that resilience. In the beginning we licensed
and developed programming at every level, from movies to shorts to in-studio,
next to nothing costing interstitials, and the audience watched and paid,
enough to grow and prosper. And from inception to now the owners went up the
steep learning curve and they made it work, but it had to have a beginning,
that leap into the dark for any learning to take place. TNN proved to be a success that it is, but
like all creative ventures it survived a torturous financial history, bobbing
and weaving until it settled. The metro
licence will do the same.
3982 The
first six years of Joan Schafer at CITY TV.
I had a glorious beginning in broadcasting. I worked with four of the most original visionaries in the
business: Douglas Siderman and Bill Fox, Phyllis Switzer and Moses
Znaimer. What they practiced was taking
chances, inventing new programs. A
group of the broadcasting girls got together for dinner the other night and
talk turned to these hearings. We were
all at CITY at one time or another and one of my friends turned and said,
'Didn't we do this already?' We did,
but it's different now, and no one is doing in any more.
3983 Then,
we did local programming, really local programming. Sometimes I think I'm back in '73. There was a market way back
then for local, local hometown television, with hometown commercials, which we
also made. Toronto knew us but outside
Toronto, nothing. It was community
programs interlaced with British programming.
I produced three shows a day and one on the weekend. Budgets were tiny but ideas were big. CITY was a bold experiment that worked and
grew. And Canadians have always led the
world in their appetite for breakthroughs.
We have had breakthroughs, but breakthroughs become mainstream and we
need fresh breakthroughs again. The GTA
is many times the size now than it was then and it displays a different characteristic
from then. I attended the Reel Asian
Film Festival a month ago in Toronto.
It's in its fifth year. It
played for five days. I did not even
know it existed until I saw it these two months ago. It was packed. The
Cineplex was packed for Green Giant. It
showed the stories of Tokyo, from Asian filmmakers, from Peking
filmmakers. The Toronto filmmakers who
showed Toronto to the Peking filmmakers just loved being with each other. And this was five solid days of
Asian/Japanese programming.
3984 There
is also an organization in the city that is dedicated to the 50 film and TV
companies in Riverdale. It is working
to assist in helping them find their financing. I was knocked out. Fifty
film and TV companies in Riverdale.
This is a very changed city from the city I knew at CITY TV. From city to city the filmmakers come and
talk about the cities to the people in the cities. Local to local, from Rome to Paris to London, to Toronto. The GTA is a bigger entity with more
audience and no real consistent voice.
3985 Of the
pitches that I have heard I found spirit of my early days in the Craig
application. They are all about
programming in their pitch for Toronto 1.
And they have the energy to do these shows. We had the Money Game with Arthur Vale and Nannie Butler, local
entrepreneurs talking about the business.
We had City Classified, buying and selling in Metro and Sweet City Woman
with Dini Petty. They have Second City,
New Voices, Toronto Life. It's
different, but it has the same feel.
That was good television. It's
missing on the dial now. And I believe
that the Craigs will bring in the new style with the new generation. In the end, it's who the people really are
and what they have shown so far. The
Craigs are about programming and about integrity in programming and that's
really all there is.
3986 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms. Schafer.
You were just about to be hit by Regulation Canada. How does it feel to be back in the regulated world?
3987 MS.
SCHAFER: Well, it feels wonderful,
actually.
3988 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Great. Thank you very much. It's nice to see you again. Thank you for your participation.
3989 MS.
SCHAFER: Thank you.
3990 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
3991 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you, Madam Chair. I would now like to introduce an intervention
that is in support of the CFMT application.
This is the Yee Hong Community Wellness Foundation, Ms. Pauline Tong.
3992 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, Ms. Tong.
INTERVENTION
BY YEE HONG COMMUNITY WELLNESS FOUNDATION/
INTERVENTION
PAR YEE HONG COMMUNITY WELLNESS FOUNDATION:
3993 MS.
TONG: Good afternoon. I will just get myself some water. First I really would like to share with you
that this is a presentation co-authored with my daughter, who is way out in
B.C., and so you are hearing information coming forward to you with two
generations. I am the older generation.
She's 20 in UBC. She was an
intern at CFMT; she felt important enough that after her exams she helped me to
co-author this presentation so I want you to sort of look at it from two
generations' perspective.
3994 I am
not the old, old generation, right?
Although I do work for the Yee Hong Centre for Geriatric Care, I am the
president of the Yee Hong Community Wellness Foundation, so if there is some
youthful kind of optimism in there it's because I got it from my daughter and I
am full of hope because of her. So here
it is.
3995 Although
Canada prides itself on being a multicultural and tolerant country there is
still a tremendous amount to be done.
Racial bigotry, ignorance and small mindedness are not problems
designated to other countries. They remain our problem as well. What can we do about it? Is there anything that we can do? The answer fortunately is a qualified
yes. However, we must come to this
conclusion, that the way to build a national community that honours mutual
understanding, goes beyond simply addressing things like the danger of racial
profiling. The way to build a
broadminded community involves the integration of all people into this nation's
social institutions and public discourse.
The media remain the most socializing force in the world, so let us
start here.
3996 Ladies
and gentlemen, my name is Pauline Tong, I am the president of the Yong
Community Wellness Foundation that builds and supports the Yee Hong Centre for
Geriatric Care. I thank you all for
giving me the opportunity to present my view, my daughter's view, and also the
views of my colleagues at Yee Hong Centre.
3997 We
wholeheartedly support CFMT Television's application to the CRTC to create a
new channel similar to its current one.
As there are still so many minorities and immigrants in Canada that the
current media has failed to reach, the need for more diverse Canadian
television spectrum has never been greater.
There are currently 22 underserved ethnic groups who still feel like
foreigners in the home country because the media have fallen short of reaching
out to them, of including them in the Canadian milieu of making them full
participants in this multicultural country
3998 I was
born in Hong Kong and I received my university and post-graduate education in
broadcasting and mass communications in the States in the early '70s. As someone who immigrated Canada in the
mid-70s, moving to Toronto was quite a culture shock to me, but it was well
worth the initial jolt. After a while I
came to marvel in the diversity of country and appreciate the vast array of
languages, cultures, ethnicities and nationalities that it had to offer. I think some of you may remember Caravan. I remember tasting all those delicious foods
from all around the world without leaving Toronto and that's really true, and
cultivated my culinary expertise since then. But still, something wasn't quite
right, there with still something missing.
I have to say that I really appreciate the federal policy of
multiculturalism, because it legitimized my existence as a Chinese Canadian who
can still loudly proclaim my own heritage, as someone who was struggling then
in the broadcasting industry, and later involved myself as volunteer in
numerous causes, I realized how peripheral I was made to feel by all the media
that has marginalized me just because I am a visible minority. In retrospect, I realize that there were two
major reasons why I felt that way.
3999 First,
I am short-changed by the images I saw on television. Why do they not recognize my presence, I often wondered? The images were of course racially
homogenized and ones with which I certainly could not associate myself. Second, what important and crucial issues to
visible minority groups never received the attention they deserved. I remember begging the mainstream media to
cover the Dragon Ball, the major event for the Yee Hong Centre for Geriatric
Care.
4000 But
thankfully there were people who took notice of this drought on
television. Due to the tremendous
endeavors of CFMT Television to incorporate the Chinese Canadian community into
their station, we no longer feel like an insubstantial part of the GTA or a
group that never fully made it into the Canadian limelight. So you can say that in a very significant
way, the existence of the Canadian Chinese community has been validated simply
by virtue of seeing and hearing the Chinese cultural identity, talking about
our issues of great relevance to us on television, and it feels wonderful. CFMT has been the media sponsor for Dragon
Ball in the past 12 years and we raised a total of talking about
20-million. That is really a great
accomplishment.
4001 And how proud we are of such a working a
relationship. In the meantime, not only
does it the cover the glamour of the ball, it also shares with the Chinese
Canadian community and other cultural and ethnic groups represented in the
station, our struggle and our success in the development and growth of a world
glass geriatric care centre and the world will take notice because of their
coverage.
4002 Yee
Hong Centre is now a model of geriatric care visited and studied by delegations
from around the world. It initially
only catered to the Chinese Canadian seniors who were woefully underserved. Based on our strong cultural tradition of
respect for seniors, now we are developing three more new centres that will be
serving upwards of tens of thousands of seniors of the multicultural
communities, with culturally and linguistically appropriate programs in York,
Peel and Toronto. We will be extending
our services with a focus on South Asians, Filipinos and Japanese Canadians and
this amazing achievement can only happen in Canada. The best geriatric care centre in the world that the world would
like to emulate, and they say: Only in Canada, eh.
4003 As we
grow, we strongly endorse CFMT 'too' so they can also serve those who have not
been served properly by the mainstream media and create a model the world can
follow. Just as how CFMT has helped
integrate Chinese Canadians into this country's social tapestry, let us allow
it to extend that mandate even further so that it can serve other minorities
and newly landed immigrants in Canada as well.
4004 CFMT
TV with its tremendous accomplishments deserves to be given the chance to
incorporate a new channel, CFMT 'too' into the Canadian media spotlight. Under this new channel, EuroLatino,
Caribbean languages, Pan Asian/African languages, languages that are virtually
non-existent in North American television will offer much needed familiarity to
those in Canada who have not been able to fully understand English television
and thus they adopt the country. It is
only through this innovative cultivation of diversity that we can help create a
nation endowed with mutual understanding amongst its respective cultures. As conflict and war ravages in many parts of
world today, the timing has never been better to create a television station
like CFMT 'too.'
4005 Although
the number of minorities working within the media should not go unrecognized,
it is also important to acknowledge that the views dispersed on the news remain
strictly North American, neglecting the views of other parts of the world. How do Afghanistans feel? How to Africans feel? How do South Americans feel? How do Filipinos feel? How do we begin to understand the different,
distinct worlds within the South Asian community? The best way we can curtail racism is to look within ourselves
and rid ourselves of egocentric outlooks.
Ww must recognize and stop casting our premature judgments upon views
that decipher (sic) from our own. Thus
we must not always seeing thing from North American or the Western angle, doing
this would be to cast a blind eye to so many different perspectives. And what good are media if they do not offer
a multitude of views? The fostering of
the media that offer a plentitude of experiences is the best way we can
ultimately comprehend and empathize with each other, an understanding that will
undoubtedly stretch way beyond our national peripheries. With this in mind, I can only see CFMT and
CFMT 'too' as the best place to nurture and create programs to promote
intercultural understanding and offer to viewers the best possible alternatives
-- a view very different from CTV, Global or CBC, and allow the audience to appreciate
perspectives from around the world, not just North American.
4006 As new
people from different cultural, ethnic and national backgrounds continue to
arrive in Canada, the demand for diverse Canadian media rises still. So let us help create something we can be
proud, of a country that acknowledges and values its entire population. Call us hopeless optimists, and that
includes my daughter, but we honestly believe that the creation of a new
television channel under CFMT Television can help make this an accessible goal
after all. Think of this new channel
along with CFMT's current channel, as microcosms of what can be ultimately
achieved in the world. But before we
can broadcast this vision to other countries, we must first cultivate it and
make it work here.
4007 Please
join me in supporting a television station that has helped so many others feel
welcome in Canada. The difference it
has made in our lives is so significant that I find myself standing here asking
you to help make it a part of others' lives as well. Thank you.
4008 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms.
Tong, for your participation and I hope you convey our congratulations to your
daughter as well.
4009 MS.
TONG: Well, I think it's because of the
multicultural milieu that we have. I
have to say that she treasures the way to get to know how speak Chinese in
CFMT.
4010 THE
CHAIRPERSON: That's wonderful. Thank you.
Mr. Secretary, please.
4011 MR.
CUSSONS: Thank you Madam Chair. Also now appearing in support of CFMT Mr.
Desalegn Eyobe.
4012 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon Mr. Eyobe.
INTERVENTION
BY DESALEGN EYOBE/
INTERVENTION PAR DESALEGN EYOBE:
4013 MR.
EYOBE: Good afternoon. First, I would
like to thank you for giving me this opportunity on behalf the Ethiopian
community. Really, it is a great
opportunity for the Ethipian community.
My friend, Mr. Mamood Hassan from the Somalian Broadcasting Network, he
couldn't make it because of the Ramadan, the Muslim fasting. So please accept his apologies.
4014 My
name is Desalegn Eyobe. I am
Ethiopian. I used to work in various
fields of journalism, print, electronics and news services. Apart from being a media professional, for
the last eight years I have been involved with in-depth African developmental
issues. In Canada I am a freelance
correspondent for Deutche Welle Radio, Radio Germany, Ethiopian
programming. I am voluntary Secretary
General and Media Officer for the Nile Basin Society, a Canadian registered
NGO. The Nile Basin Society is a
communication initiative with the main objective of advocating a shared vision
of sustainable water development in the 10 riparian African countries. Of the world's ten poorest countries in the
world, six of them are found in this region.
4015 I am
advisor for the Ethiopian Association in Toronto in the areas of Media and Public
Relations, I am also special publicity advisor for People To People Aid
Organization in Canada. People to
People works on the prevention and education of HIV/AIDS, because we are
supporting HIV/AIDS orphans back home in Ethiopia and in collaboration with the
Ethiopian Association in Toronto, providing counseling service for Ethiopians
living with HIV/AIDS here in Canada.
4016 It is
believed that there is an estimated number of more than 50,000 Ethiopians lives
in and around Toronto. These
well-educated and highly trained professionals contribute a great deal to the
Canadian society. The number of
immigrants has been increased from time to time as Canada has given peace and
opportunity for many. Above all, we all
believe Canada is a country that is multicultural and multilingual. In its small-scale business and
self-employment ventures, the Ethiopian community has shown progresses. Ethiopians are hard worker and self-dependent. Tradition-wise we may not be in the
forefront in our community. We value
our tradition. And we Ethiopians live
together hand in hand for many years with different religions and many ethnic
groups in Ethiopia, more than 80 ethnic groups in Ethiopia, with 40 languages. So there was no problem for us to live
together and Canada seems for us a symbol.
They are anxious to represent and speak for themselves. The opportunity they found here encourage
them to engage in various businesses.
Canada is a country with ample opportunity to live in diversity. We strongly believe unity comes from
diversity. Many of the nationalities
here are able to see themselves in television, however, the lack of such a
powerful forum makes us feel that we are excluded from this great nation. Many Ethiopians are embarrassed to mention
their origin as a result of the negative portrayals of the mainstream
media. Ethiopians are among the most
vulnerable Africans to marginalization due to lack of representation that
Canada provides us. A great number of
Ethiopians express their frustration that the media has keen interest only in
highlighting or sensitizing the gloomy part of Ethiopia, war, famine, and
disease. According to a Toronto
university study, of all the immigrants the HIV/AIDS risk is highest in the African
community. As you may remember, last
week, Saturday, it was the World AIDS Day, so People To People organized
half-day workshop and we tried to reach many Ethiopians but we couldn't because
there is no means of communication, we have to go in each house. We estimated that from the 50,000 Ethiopians,
at least 5,000 people would show up, but 92 people were presented at that time
because of the lack of communications.
4017 Organizations
working on HIV/AIDS believe that the lack of addressing the issue in native
languages makes the prevention effort very difficult. There is no other cheaper medium than allowing people to speak in
their native language.
4018 Since
Ethiopians are part of the society, it is essential for them to be well
informed on regional, national and international matters. New knowledge and ideas acquired through
better access to information can also be a source of motivation and generates
participation.
4019 CFMT
is the sole channel which we witnessed that demonstrated its professionalism in
helping minorities understand what it means to be a Canadian and, at the same
time, celebrating our respective heritage.
It is with this deep down belief, and as a journalist, that CFMT 'too'
will give us a great opportunity to express ourselves. It will ultimately be our eyes and ears.
CFMT 'too' has programs that allocate a modest amount of financial support for
positive portrayal, which for many Ethiopians is a dream.
4020 We
understand and are looking forward to participate in CFMT 'too' on job training
which is a unique opportunity to bring quality and ethical programming for our
community. CFMT 'too' is different in
many ways from other channels for many reasons. One among many which is very crucial is that it gives a chance
for minorities to exercise their constitutional right, freedom of expression,
ultimately the right to speak in their own language. CFMT 'too' is our voice, our hope and our vision. Thank you.
4021 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Is it Mr. Eyobe or Mr. Desalegn?
4022 MR.
EYOBE: Yeah, Desalegn Eyobe. But anyway, I am either.
4023 THE
CHAIRPERSON: We thank you for your
participation and hope you convey our best regards to Mr. Hassan.
4024 MR.
EYOBE: Okay. Thank you.
4025 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary, please.
4026 MR.
CUSSONS: Madam Chairperson, we have an
intervention this afternoon in support of Torstar's application by a Mr. Allan
Aylward of Forever Green Communications.
While Mr. Aylward is not listed in the agenda, his participation will
not enable Torstar to exceed its quota of supporting appearing intervenors, so
we would invite Mr. Aylward to make his presentation now.
4027 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, Mr.
Aylward.
INTERVENTION
BY EVERGREEN COMMUNICATIONS/
INTERVENTION
PAR EVERGREEN COMMUNICATIONS:
4028 MR.
AYLWARD: Good afternoon. First of all, thank for the opportunity to
speak before you. I understand that protocol allows me to talk a little bit
about my own background and history. I
have an eclectic background. I am an
independent television producer for Evergreen Communications. I reside here in Dundas, Ontario which they
now tell me is also part of Hamilton, and I have lived in Hamilton for 12
years. There is a saying that God gives
you your family, and thank god you get to choose your friends. I left Toronto 12 years ago to live in this
community, as I came to know it in my work with CHCH Television at that time,
and was embraced by the people and inspired by the people that live here in
this wonderful community.
4029 I'm
here in support of Torstar because I think this community is drastically
underserved in our broadcast world. I
have had a great opportunity throughout my history to work in a lot of artistic
fields, although I was trained in business and marketing in college, I ended up
as a puppeteer traveling throughout Europe working with wonderful Leo and Dora
Velemen of Canadian Puppet Festivals, representing Canadians abroad. I had the great opportunity to work with Jim
Murray and Nancy Archibald as a researcher for the Nature of Things. I had a tremendous opportunity to be
mentored by a great Canadian filmmaker, a man by the name of Don Hall Dane of
Westminster Films, back in the '70s and Mr. Arthur Campus, who taught me the
ins and outs of film editing and filmmaking.
I have had tremendous opportunities to work with people who have
inspired me and who have taught me right from wrong and, for one reason or the
other, had set me on the road as an independent producer to tackle subject
matter that is not sexy and is not easy to sell. I have done a lot of -- 90 per cent of my documentary work has
been done on the rights of, defending the rights of people who were not
normally seen through our media. I have
made major documentary work on the rights of disabled persons as well as the
illiterate in our society, those dealing with the problems of illiteracy. My work has been for the most part been in
support of the underdog. It was interesting to see there are so many people
here I admire and respect from all the different walks of life. It was interesting to see Ira Levy, whom you
met earlier from Breakthrough Films, because back in the late '70s when I first
met Ira, he was trying to make a film called The Breakthrough about a lovely
woman by the name of Sue O'Dell, who later became Sue Foster. And he couldn't find a broadcaster and he
couldn't find anybody with money.
Fortunately my business background enabled to me to secure the funds for
his documentary film The Breakthrough, and for his next documentary which was
called Against All Odds, which was another film about the rights of the
disabled.
4030 When I
saw these applications and read them as carefully as one could and tried to put
them into the perspective of where we are and what we need from our community's
perspective, I tried to think of an analogy that would enable me to articulate
how I felt about the Torstar application, because quite frankly the Torstar
application is head and shoulders above everything else that I have read and
seen. I had the great fortune when I
produced in 1990 a documentary property which actually ended up to be 26 media
properties on the rights of the illiterate called The Fight for Freedom, which
was sponsored by The Canada Post Corporation and the Secretary of State and
some private sector corporations. I got
the opportunity to travel across Canada to meet and talk with those individuals
in our society who did not have -- who were not empowered by the ability to
read and to write, who had gone through society functionally illiterate. I met a wonderful native woman, Rebecca, who
was a middle-aged woman who had many children.
She was single and she had spent day and night, day and night, day and
night, studying to learn how to read and write English because she recognized
this was the only way she was ever going to make something for herself in this
life. When we asked her how she felt,
if she could describe the feeling when she finally got her high school diploma,
she simply looked at us and said, 'My spirit soars like an eagle.'
4031 When I
read the Torstar application as an independent producer, and you have heard
from Sylvia Sweeney and others about the state of duress that we are under as
independent producers - and I don't mean to sound maudlin and trite - but I
read that proposal and I must tell you that my spirit did soar like an eagle
because I saw some light at the end of the tunnel. I saw a group coming into the marketplace with a well-thought-out
plan with every opportunity to do something that was indeed inspiring and
different, something that was not going to simply feed the status quo,
something that was going enable us to create something new. So now I can go to my script because I have
written it, I might is as well read it.
4032 In my
opinion the Toronto-centric media empire - I am from Toronto originally - does
not appreciate the resources of our regional and local community here in
Hamilton/Halton region. We have come to
replace Buffalo. If you remember, we used to turn to Irv Weinstein to find out
where the fires were burning; well, now Hamilton is seen on the local news
broadcast because that's where the fires are burning in Hamilton.
4033 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Aylward, your delivery
will be very difficult for the court reporter
4034 MR.
AYLWARD: Oh, am I too fast?
4035 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
4036 MR.
AYLWARD: I'm sorry. I'm always conscious of time.
4037 What
little coverage that we do get in the current broadcast circumstances
diminishes regional representation and reflection to obscure viewing times,
phone-in talk shows, short clips on news breaks and to magazine format
clips. Quite frankly, the vast majority
of applicants continue to relegate our region to a backwater status and their
attitudes suggest that we may have the odd dog show or county fair that could
be treated in an expanded news coverage format.
4038 Some
applicants have suggested that we are prime real estate for a relay tower,
bringing us more repeat programming and, for the most part, our region is
becoming viewed as a recycling station and a dumping ground for a
non-indigenous programming. The major
players that now control this and most other broadcast markets have lined up to
present a host of concerns to you, difficulties, catastrophe and waiting
scenarios, should they be passed over and Torstar approved. There have been 'Chicken Little Sky is
Falling' warnings and some have advocated that no licence be awarded to anyone
if they can't have it. But if I
understand anything about the CRTC and its mandate, and I do not profess to be
a scholar on your rules and regulations, I do believe that the CRTC has some
directive to ensure that the broadcasters before you are obligated to serve the
community and its people. To listen to
those opposed to the Torstar application, and those that are seeking
application, they have limited much of their discussion to what is good or bad
for them as broadcasters. Very little
if anything has revolved around the viewer and our community and what is
ultimately the best for us. Some of
those before you have defended their concerns by citing the risk they will face
of increased costs to acquire American prime time programming. While I am sure that would be very
encouraging to Jack Valenti, but it isn't encouraging to me.
4039 Some
are arguing that the timing is wrong that the advertising market is weak and we
are in an economic slump and we can't support another broadcaster in the
marketplace. And yet we know that that
there are advertisers who cannot afford too buy into the game now because of
the high costs. We also know that the
advertising landscape is changing dramatically and it will not change -- it
will not come back to its old ways after this market recovers. Advertisers are looking for new innovative
ways to spend their money. Traditional
broadcasters are going to find themselves left behind if they continue to see
it from their narrow, in-the-box viewpoint.
I think Torstar sees an innovative way of securing advertising
dollars. There is some concern that
Torstar budgets for programming are underestimated. I can tell you quite candidly from my experience as an executive producer
and a producer, writer and director for over 20 years producing documentaries,
that their budget plans are very much in line and very realistic and fully
responsible to creating original programming that will not only reflect our
community, but can also be made to appeal to a broader national and even an
international audience.
4040 When
we get into the arguments about budgets, it's the subjective argument of how
long is that piece of string. Well, I
have recently finished 130 half-hour television programs, docu-tainment by
nature, well within the budget guidelines that Torstar has put before you. I
have also produced them right here in Hamilton. They have aired nationally, they have aired locally, they have
been syndicated. They are now, after
six years, have just started to air on their first national specialty window,
and our distributor is now carrying those 130 shows, produced out of this
community, into the world market. Those
130 shows are -- we have just signed a deal with Stuart House to produce five
books and to produce five home video DVDs based on those programs that were
produced here out of this community, well within the budget guidelines that
Torstar is advocating. I think that we
should also recall that it wasn't very long ago that a group of young people
got together and produced a little film known as The Blair Witch Project for an
unbelievable amount of money and they broke every Hollywood budget guideline
rule there ever was. We can also refer
to Francis Ford Coppola, who has indicated and predicted, to some degree, that
we are in an ever-changing media landscape.
We will find increasingly young people will be picking up their parents'
home video cameras, they will be producing pieces of art and we will be line up
for city blocks and we will pay good dollars to go in to see. This is a new market and it is increasingly
changing.
4041 We're
hearing a lot of traditional inside-the-box thinking and the arguments based on
inside- the-box thinking that make less and less sense in this rapidly changing
media landscape. The traditional
broadcasters are becoming long in the tooth; they're becoming very comfortable
with the status quo and they don't want to see that disturbed. Then along comes the upstart, the kid off
the block, Torstar.
4042 The Torstar application before you is to some
extent about conventional broadcast licence, and I say that to some extent
because it is much more than that, it is a beacon of light that breaks away
from the status quo that the entrenched traditional broadcasters are so
vigorously defending. Torstar has a
highly regarded history in its respect for content and providing the community
with insight, awareness, information, knowledge, guidance, entertainment and
inspiration. And in perspective, I
would suggest that Torstar, more than any other applicant before you, has
demonstrated a profound sensitivity to fulfilling the needs of the community
that it has come to reflect throughout its history and, by extension, will come
to reflect throughout its application in our community. It has come forward with a substantial
application to enter the broadcast arena by serving our communities. It recognizes the value of Toronto, but it
also diversifies the resources to include real representation of the
Hamilton/Halton area and Waterloo/ Kitchener.
It is the only application on the table that respects our culture and
our history and our people and treats us with a sense of integrity, dignity and
respect. The Torstar application has
been carefully researched and they have expended sincere energy to consult with
those of us in the community about where we would like to see ourselves and how
we can build a more aware dynamic community through their efforts in
broadcast. The financial investment
they are making is substantial and certainly a tremendous boost to this
community. The focus on local and regional
content is exceptional by any CRTC standard anywhere in the country and it
addresses the needs of our communities, needs that are not now being addressed
by anyone.
4043 Torstar
recognizes the changing media arena and from our perspective provides a viable,
bold innovative response to redefining broadcast relevance and community
representation. Torstar is building its
plan from the consumer up, not from the corporate boardroom down. Torstar realizes that the value of media
integration and the much talked about convergence, is driven by the needs of
people who live in the community and by the demands for relevant content-driven
programming. While all the others that
come before you with their traditional inside-out protectionist thinking, there
is only one applicant before you that has a spark of creativity and is filled
with progressive thoughts and that's Torstar's Hometown Television.
4044 In
conclusion, you are being charged with the final decision that will have a
profound effect on this community and the people that live in it, as well as
those of us who are independent producers trying to carve out a living. You have seen and you will be accorded with
statistics, financial data, conflicting studies, dire warnings that the sky is
falling and, as I understand it, a record number of interventions, but I would
respectfully propose that at some point in your decision-making process, when
you clear away the clutter, the jargon, the threats, and the hype, and you view
these applications from a reasonable, somewhat intuitive or instinctive
perspective, the Torstar application is the only one, it is the only
application that serves the well-being of the communities it proposes to
represent. And by virtue of their sensitivity
to this community, and a truly well thought out business plan that they have
developed, it is the only application I feel that warrants your approval. To not warrant an application at all would
be a disaster for our community. We
need the inspiration and the leadership that Torstar is putting in our lap and
I hope that in your wisdom and in your judgment, you will see your way clear to
making that application a reality.
Thank you.
4045 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Aylward. We have no questions. Your position is very clear. And you have the privilege of being the last
intervenor this afternoon. I understand
you are in Hamilton so you don't have to drive home?
4046 MR.
AYLWARD: Ten minutes.
4047 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Drive home, but not all
the way to Toronto. Mr. Secretary, am I
correct that he is our last intervenor?
4048 MR.
CUSSONS: You are, Madam
Chairperson. I would like to mention
that Tapestry Pictures Incorporated had hoped to be with us today but it would
now seem that they're joining us on Monday morning. So that does conclude the business of the day.
4049 THE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will reconvene then at 8:30 on Monday
morning to complete Phase 3 and then proceed with Phase 4. I hope you all have a nice weekend and if
you are driving a long way, that you have a safe trip home. Bon soir.
Whereupon
the proceedings adjourned
at
1458, to be reconvened on Monday,
the
10th day of December, 2001, at 0830/
L'audience est ajournée à 1458,
pour reprendre Lundi 10
décembre 2001
à 0830
per/par: ______________________________
MINORI ARAI, CSR
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