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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE
THE CANADIAN
RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES
AVANT
CONSEIL DE LA
RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS
CANADIENNES
SUBJECT:
VARIOUS BROADCAST
APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES
EN RADIODIFFUSION
HELD
AT:
TENUE À:
Metropolitan
Conference
Centre de conférence
Centre
Métropolitain
333
Fourth Avenue South West
333, Fourth Avenue Sud‑Ouest
Calgary,
Alberta
Calgary (Alberta)
February 24,
2006
Le 24 février 2006
Transcripts
In order to meet
the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of
proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to
their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending
the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the
aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript
and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the
official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the
participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer
les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les
procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui
a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du
personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que
la table des matières.
Toutefois, la
publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des
délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans
l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte
tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à
l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television
and
Telecommunications
Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et
des
télécommunications
canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS
/
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN
RADIODIFFUSION
BEFORE /
DEVANT:
Michel Arpin
Chairperson / Président
Helen del Val
Commissioner / Conseillère
Elizabeth
Duncan
Commissioner / Conseillère
Ronald
Williams
Commissioner / Conseillier
Stuart
Langford
Commissioner / Conseillier
ALSO PRESENT /
AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Chantal
Boulet Secretary /
Secrétaire
Leanne Bennett
Legal Counsel /
Conseillère
juridique
Steve Parker
Hearing Manager /
Gérant de
l'audience
HELD AT:
TENUE À:
Metropolitan
Conference
Centre de conférence
Centre
Métropolitain
333 Fourth Avenue
South West
333, Fourth Avenue Sud‑Ouest
Calgary,
Alberta
Calgary (Alberta)
February 24,
2006
Le 24 février 2006
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF
CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE
II
INTERVENTION BY /
INTERVENTION PAR:
Evanov Radio Group
Inc. 1074 / 6943
PHASE
III
INTERVENTION BY /
INTERVENTION PAR:
Aboriginal Voices
Radio 1079 / 6992
RGB
Productions 1103 /
7127
Asian Heritage
Foundation of Southern Alberta
1107 / 7153
Priti
Obhrai‑Martin 1112 /
7178
Stride
Management 1126 /
7257
Mount Royal
College 1133 /
7299
Lari Carter 1145 / 7375
Blaskin & Lane
Tires 1151 / 7411
CADME 1158 / 7460
Keystone Music 1163 / 7492
The Beach
Audio 1169 / 7526
Canadian Rocky
Mountain Festival 1175 /
7577
Alberta
International Band Festivals
1185 / 7648
EPCOR Centre for
the Performing Arts 1191 /
7679
CKUA Radio
Network 1196 /
7711
Fairchild Radio
Group Ltd. 1220 /
7849
Neeraj Paul 1233 / 7926
Nimma Khaira 1235 / 7940
Hardeep
Dhillon 1238 /
7956
Ukranian Canadian
Congress 1240 /
7967
Josh Marantz 1252 / 8036
Calgary Folk Music
Festival 1256 /
8053
John Campbell 1259 / 8067
Rob Ursel 1262 / 8083
Lin Elder 1264 / 8094
Tammy
Schuiling 1273 /
8144
Megatunes 1276 / 8160
The Union Ltd. 1280 / 8174
Blayne
Crowchild 1289 /
8206
Ashley-Rae
Snape 1291 /
8216
Town of
Cochrane 1304 /
8293
Jim Hughes 1311 / 8334
Stu Bradley 1317 /
8364
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF
CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE
IV
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE
PAR:
Nawcap Inc. 1337 / 8479
Tiessen Media
Inc. 1342 / 8504
Rawlco Radio
Ltd. 1343 / 8514
Yadwinder S. Sivia
(OBCI) 1344 /
8519
Jim Pattison
Broadcast Group Ltd. 1354 /
8587
Calgary Independent
Radio Broadcasters Inc. 1358 /
8606
1182743 Alberta
Ltd. 1360 / 8621
CHUM Limited 1365 / 8647
Touch Canada
Broadcasting 1372 /
8688
Calgary, Alberta / Calgary
(Alberta)
‑‑‑ Upon resuming
on Friday, February 24, 2006
at 0830 / L'audience reprend
le vendredi
24 février 2006 à
0830
6935 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, please.
6936 We will now start with
part two of this public hearing.
6937 Madam
Secretary.
6938 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
6939 Phase II of the
proceedings is where applicants will appear in the same order to intervene on
competing applications, if they wish.
6940 The following
applicants have indicated that they will not appear in Phase II: Touch Canada; CHUM Limited; 1182743
Alberta Ltd.; Calgary Independent Radio Broadcasters; Jim Pattison Broadcast
Group; Rawlco Radio Ltd.; Harvard Broadcasting; Newcap Inc., for both
applications; Tiessen Media; and Golden West Broadcasting.
6941 I would now call on
Evanov Radio Group to intervene on the competing applications. You have ten minutes to do
so.
6942 Mr.
Evanov.
INTERVENTION
6943 MR. W. EVANOV: Thank you.
6944 Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners, bonjour. I am Bill
Evanov, President of the Evanov Radio Group. Seated to my right is Carmela
Laurignano, Vice‑President of our Radio Group.
6945 We appear in the second
phase because there are four matters which we believe should be brought to the
Commission's attention to set the record straight.
6946 The first: On Tuesday, when the second applicant
was before you, it was stated by the Commission that the Pattison application
promised the highest revenues for the seven years of all the applicants in
Calgary and that CHUM was the second highest.
6947 For the record, a
review of our records shows that Harvard actually promised the highest amount of
revenues over that period, and our own application for the Evanov Radio Group
promised the second highest, CHUM the third highest and Pattison the fourth
highest.
6948 Second, on Wednesday
when the Commission was hearing the Pattison application the applicant was
understood to say that all we could afford was to hire 20‑year‑olds to tell
adult Calgarians what was going on in town.
6949 For the record, all our
on‑air talent are mature adults and experienced broadcasters, and an analysis of
our application will show that we promised to spend the most dollars in the area
of programming.
6950 Third, again on
Wednesday the Pattison application described our proposed format as being
niche. The fact is that The Jewel,
today's new easy listening format, blends more music styles for more eras than
any other applicant targeting the older demo.
6951 Obviously this wide
appeal translates into a larger audience and will result in higher shares than
the other applicants. This is also
a matter of record.
6952 Finally, fourth, while
the Commission was hearing the Rawlco application, our format was being
described as background music. It
is not.
6953 It differs
significantly from the old easy listening of decades ago. Today's new easy listening format is
uplifting. It is fresh. It is definitely foreground. It is music that endures. It evokes passion and it is
exciting.
6954 In terms of vocals, it
offers lyrics that will be meaningful and touch something within a listener
relating to their life experience.
6955 Since we began testing
our signal in Ottawa this past week, we have been inundated with over a thousand
phone calls and e‑mails from new listeners expressing a deep appreciation for
the music selections we are playing.
6956 This is not
background. This is not
Muzak.
6957 That's all we have to
say there.
6958 I would like Carmela to
add something.
6959 MS LAURIGNANO: I will be very
brief.
6960 I would like to thank
the Commission for this opportunity.
We feel it has been a great hearing.
6961 We would also like to
congratulate all the other broadcasters and applicants for their excellent
proposals. We know your task won't
be easy.
6962 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
6963 For you to know, on
your first point we agree. The
table that we have here shows exactly what you just said.
6964 MR. W. EVANOV: Thank you. We hope on 2, 3 and 4 you will agree
too.
6965 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I would only add to that
that we have had these sorts of discussions before. We have had the Evanov Group in front of
us. We are very accustomed here to
making our own decisions on what is elevator music and what isn't and who comes
first.
6966 Almost every one of us
here can add and subtract, and we have our own records and we are able to use
our own calculators.
6967 I think you should rest
assured that we will be looking very hard at your application and not losing a
whole lot of sleep about other characterizations.
6968 MR. W. EVANOV: Thank you very
much.
6969 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mrs. del Val.
6970 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank
you.
6971 I think the point about
the second highest, I think it was a point that I had
made.
6972 I did not mean to say
that it was the second highest in generation of revenue. What I had said was that the average
annual growth rate in revenue, year‑to‑year, the average was the second
highest. I think it was like 22
percent and Jim Pattison was 29 percent.
6973 If that is what I said,
it was not what I meant to say: that it was the second highest in generating
revenues. It was the average annual
growth rate.
6974 MS LAURIGNANO: That is great.
6975 Just for the transcript
and all that kind of stuff, it's a good thing we are in the communications
business.
6976 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: It is.
6977 MS LAURIGNANO: Thank you.
6978 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
6979 Madam
Secretary.
6980 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
6981 The applicant Yadwinder
S. Sivia has informed me that they will not be appearing in Phase
II.
6982 Therefore, this
completes Phases II of the proceedings for Items 1 to 13.
6983 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
6984 We will now move to the
third phase of this proceeding.
6985 Madam
Secretary.
6986 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
6987 Phase III of the
proceeding is where other parties appear in the order set out in the agenda to
present their intervention.
6988 I would now call on, as
a panel, the following intervenors to come to the front to present their
intervention.
6989 We will first start
with the Board of Directors of Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc. to come to the
front.
‑‑‑
Pause
6990 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Hill, whenever you are
ready.
6991 THE SECRETARY: You will have ten minutes for your
presentation. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
6992 MR. HILL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Members
of the Commission, Commission staff and ladies and
gentlemen.
6993 My name is Jamie Hill,
and I am the President of the AVR Board of Directors.
6994 One of the customs of
aboriginal people is that we recognize the aboriginal territory that we are
in. We would like to thank the
Territory of the Blackfoot Confederacy for allowing us to speak before you
today.
6995 We are very excited to
be in front of you today to speak to our intervention in support of the
application by CHUM Limited for a new radio service in
Calgary.
6996 Before we begin, I
would like to introduce the members of our AVR team.
6997 Lewis Cardinal is the
Vice‑President of AVR. Louis is a
Woodland Cree from northern Alberta.
He works as a consultant to the city of Edmonton on aboriginal
issues. He currently serves as the
Co‑Chair of the Global Indigenous Dialogue. He is also the founder and President of
the Indigenous Media Institute. He
is also the former Chair of the Edmonton Aboriginal Urban Affairs
Committee.
6998 Bob Wood, AVR's
management consultant. Bob has
spent over 30 years in radio, including 17 years with CHUM as National Program
Director, and later as General Manager of CHUM and
CHUM‑FM.
6999 Tanya Kappo is from the
Sturgeon Lake Cree Nation. She
began with AVR as our board representative from Winnipeg, but she now lives in
Edmonton. At present she is the
Communications and Consultation Manager for the Treaty 8 First Nations in
Alberta. She is also a member of
the National Executive of the Liberal Party of Canada as the Co‑Chair of the
Aboriginal Peoples Commission.
7000 Russ McLeod is Sekani
from Central B.C. and is our member of the board from Calgary. He is currently the Aboriginal
Development Co‑ordinator for an aboriginal pipeline company based here in
Alberta. He spent 26 years on the
air with CHUM Limited stations in Vancouver and Toronto.
7001 We apologize that due
to an unexpected personal matter AVR's General Manager, Roy Hennessey, could not
be with us today.
7002 Mr. Hennessey has
served as general manager of stations in Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton and
Vancouver. He is the past President
of FACTOR and was recognized for his contribution to the broadcasting industry
as the recipient of the first annual President's Award by the Ontario
Association of Broadcasters.
7003 As for myself, I am
Mohawk from Six Nations in Ontario.
In addition to serving as the President of AVR, I am a co‑founder of
Knapp Media Inc. with my wife Millie Knapp. Knapp Media holds contracts for the
managing editor, advertising, printing and distribution of the Smithsonian's
American Indian Magazine.
7004 I am Editor‑in‑Chief
and co‑publisher of the Sage Magazine in Ontario. Previously I served as communications
and information systems analyst for the Chiefs of Ontario, and I worked as
director of economic development for the Ontario Federation of Indian Friendship
Centres.
7005 We are now ready to
commence our presentation.
7006 I would ask Lewis
Cardinal to speak next.
7007 MR. CARDINAL: Thank you, Jamie.
7008 Before we get to the
reasons for our support of the CHUM application, we would like to spend a few
minutes to give you some background about AVR and to update you on the status of
our development to date.
7009 AVR was founded in 1998
to facilitate the development of a national not‑for‑profit radio service known
as Aboriginal Voices Radio Network.
AVR's mission was then, and is now, to address the need for service in
large urban centres where the majority of aboriginal people now
live.
7010 Thanks to you and many
of your predecessors, the CRTC granted us licences to operate a national
satellite radio network, a flagship station in Toronto ‑‑ now on the
air ‑‑ and rebroadcast stations in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa,
Kitchener and Montreal.
7011 When we originally won
the licence to establish a new radio service in Toronto, it was the board's
intention at the time to establish the financial viability of the Toronto
service before applying for licences anywhere.
7012 When the Commission
began to issue calls for applications in other cities, our engineers advised us
that the supply of frequencies in major cities was running out and that if we
did not apply now, the dream of establishing a national network would be
lost.
7013 So apply we did. And thanks to the Commission, we were
granted licences in six major urban centres in rapid
succession.
7014 In an attempt to
address the financing challenge that this licensing opportunity presented, AVR
immediately began pursuing funding from various sources to launch the stations
that are not yet on the air. While
we have raised over $5 million to date, we have needed all of these funds to
keep our Toronto station on the air and pursue the constantly licensing
processes required to secure licences in other
markets.
7015 While we regret to
inform you that we did not yet have all the funding required to complete the
national expansion, we feel strongly that things have never been better in shape
for AVR.
7016 In the past year a new
core group of committed board members, that have been identified, would be
required to complete AVR's expansion.
AVR then called upon McCarthy Tétrault to carry out a complete governance
review and to help us untangle a number of complicated governance issues that
have now stabilized and strengthened AVR from a governance
standpoint.
7017 In addition, AVR
commissioned KPMG to carry out a long overdue audit, bring our financial affairs
up to date and to help us establish financial
transparency.
7018 With the help of the
Canadian Executive Services Organization, AVR engaged the services of Michael
Jarvis as AVR's chief financial advisor.
Mr. Jarvis is now semi‑retired, but he previously served as controller of
Ultramar, one of Canada's largest petroleum companies, and as Chief Financial
Officer of the York Region Hospital.
7019 Mr. Jarvis has helped
us to organize our accounting systems, maintain tight control of our cash flow
and given us the credibility needed to enhance our fund raising
efforts.
7020 From a technical
standpoint, AVR engaged the services of Paul Furminger, the former VP
Engineering for Maclean Hunter.
7021 Mr. Furminger has
helped us to get things moving with respect to the launch of our various
stations. We are confident that our
new emphasis on fund raising and sound financial management practices places us
in a position to successfully complete the expansion of the networks across
Canada.
7022 MS KAPPO: We would like to provide you with a bit
of background about the need for AVR that will help you to understand why we
think this network is so special and why we are also committed to seeing it
succeed.
7023 No other community in
Canada is dealing with the social disaster that our community is dealing with
and no other community needs your and our help more.
7024 As well, aboriginal
populations in cities continue to grow in record numbers. Today over half of the 1.5 million
people with aboriginal ancestry live in major urban
centres.
7025 Unfortunately, apart
from Friendship Centres, there are very few institutions aboriginal people can
call their own to serve them and help them cope with the difficult situations
they face.
7026 Aboriginal people are
not well served by existing radio.
There are no programs on the CBC's main network in the south, virtually
no programs on private sector commercial stations and only a limited patchwork
of programs, usually in non‑prime time, on campus and community
stations.
7027 Now I would like to
highlight AVR's role in adjusting these circumstances.
7028 When fully up to steam,
AVR will provide hourly news and information reports, public affairs programs, a
national telephone call‑in show, and other spoken word features that will
address the needs and interests of Canada's increasingly urban aboriginal
population.
7029 AVR will be unique in
that it will be the only aboriginal station in Canada that offers
100 percent aboriginal music and spoken word programming on a 24‑hour
dedicated basis.
7030 AVR will do more than
just fill a gap in service in major urban centres. AVR's programming will be made available
free of charge by satellite and internet to more than 200 low power aboriginal
stations located on Reserves in rural and remote regions in
Canada.
7031 The entire AVR schedule
will be available day or night to enable stations to downlink AVR, to extend
hours of operation, carry national news or upgrade the quality of their service
with enriched public affairs and other spoken word
programming.
7032 As a result, by helping
us you are helping all aboriginal stations in Canada and in a sense helping us
to build the infrastructure for an effective aboriginal broadcast system in
Canada.
7033 AVR will provide a home
for Canadian aboriginal artists and musicians who have difficulty achieving
airplay on radio because aboriginal and non‑aboriginal stations feature a diet
of predominantly mainstream Pop, Rock and Country.
7034 These are just some of
the ways AVR will help aboriginal peoples achieve their social, political,
cultural, economic and health‑related aspirations.
7035 MR. McLEOD: We are pleased to provide our full and
unqualified support for CHUM's application to establish a new radio station in
Calgary.
7036 We consider the
establishment of a corporate partnership with one of Canada's largest and most
respected broadcasters as a tipping point that will enable us to complete our
mission to establish the world's first national aboriginal radio
service.
7037 CHUM has already
provided us with a wealth of engineering, business, financial, legal,
promotional and lobbying support that has contributed enormously to the
development of Aboriginal Voices Radio.
7038 The partnership with
CHUM has given us new found credibility that is helping us to open doors in our
quest to secure government and corporate funding, instil confidence in our
stakeholders that AVR is going to survive and provide a shot in the arm for our
staff and management.
7039 We are of course
delighted to extend our support to CHUM, in part because of the
$4.5 million commitment paid over seven years that will enable us to
finally launch our stations. We
note that your faith in us is shared by many others who have written letters of
support of the CHUM application because of the funding that we will receive if
CHUM is granted a licence.
7040 Aboriginal Voices Radio
is grateful for letters submitted by the following people: Phil Fontaine, the National Chief of the
Assembly of First Nations; Jason Goodstriker, the Alberta Regional Chief; George
Erasmus, Co‑Chair of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People; Beverly Jacobs,
President of the National Women's Association of Canada; and Vera Pawis
Tobobondung, President of National Association of Friendship
Centres.
7041 CHUM has offered to
contribute the first year instalment of its $4.5 million in funding within 90
days of the Commission's decision.
If the CHUM application is approved, therefore, AVR intends to use the
money to complete its expansion.
7042 Once the expansion has
been completed, some of the funding will be used to improve the programming,
strengthening the sales effort and take the first steps toward implementation of
local services in Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton and
elsewhere.
7043 By licensing CHUM you
will be helping Aboriginal Voices Radio to complete the expansion of AVR. Also, you will be helping AVR to create
a national aboriginal broadcasting infrastructure and programming source that
hundreds of existing aboriginal stations can access at no charge to augment,
extend and enrich the service they provide to their
communities.
7044 You will also be
helping AVR to provide training and employment opportunities for aboriginal
youth that will help to increase the presence of aboriginal people in media in
general and lead to improvements in the way aboriginal people are portrayed in
the media.
7045 MR. HILL: Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen of
the Commission, I would like to add a couple of final
points.
7046 Section 3(1)(d)(3) of
the Act states that:
"The
Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the special place of aboriginal
people within Canadian society."
7047 Section 3(1)(0) of the
Act states that:
"Programming that
reflects the aboriginal cultures of Canada should be provided within the
Canadian broadcasting system as resources become available for the
purpose."
7048 By licensing CHUM, two
of the fundamental principles and objectives of the Act can be met to help our
community find its rightful place on Canadian airwaves.
7049 I would like to say
that AVR has a new talented board management team in order to expand our
national network. This new team is
the team who are going to get the job done.
7050 The outcome of these
CRTC hearings will have an enormous impact on the future of AVR, regardless of
the decision made. However, we will
remain hopeful that a favourable decision is rendered so that AVR can move
forward without any more delay.
7051 Finally, we would like
to respectfully request expeditious consideration of the CHUM licence so that
AVR can move forward. Quite simply
put, AVR has much to lose and even less time to do so.
7052 We thank you for the
opportunity to present our intervention in support of the CHUM
application.
7053 This concludes our
presentation. We would be pleased
to answer any questions you may have.
7054 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Langford.
7055 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7056 Thank you for your
presentation. It is very clear and
echoed, of course, what was in your written submission and in a number of
submissions we have heard in licensing applications from AVR over the last few
years.
7057 I want to try to speak
as directly, and yet I hope non‑threateningly, as I can.
7058 I understand fully what
you are telling us here today, and I understand how important funding is to AVR
and its hopes and aspirations. But
I have a lot of trouble, speaking personally now, trying to figure out how much
weight I should give your dreams when I am trying to figure out who has the best
application in Calgary for scarce resources.
7059 Let me go on, if you
don't mind, because I want to make sure you understand where I am coming
from.
7060 All of us in this room
I think would celebrate if somebody just came along and gave you folks a lot of
money and solved your problems. We
have listened to your licence applications. We have granted them across the
country. But we don't have
money. We are not a money‑granting
organization.
7061 So we would all be
happy. We would all say, "Good,
that problem is solved."
7062 But how much weight do
I give to the fact, how much weight in the sense of a competitive application
for scarce radio frequencies in Calgary ‑‑ you already have yours. You are okay, at least at that
element.
7063 But all these other
applicants have their dreams too, and their business plans and their
aspirations.
7064 Does somehow the fact
that CHUM can give you $4.5 million make their station, their application, a
better application than the other ones here?
7065 How much weight do we
give it? Can you help me with
that?
7066 MR. HILL: Mr. Commissioner, you can appreciate
that I am probably biased in this regard.
7067 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I should hope you
are.
7068 MR. HILL: And I do believe that CHUM has the best
application, just in the information that I am aware of.
7069 Of course, my awareness
is not anywhere near what all of yours is.
But from what I have been informed, they have a very good solid
application.
7070 I appreciate the fact
that there are scarce resources.
This is everyone's dilemma continually.
7071 I would have to ‑‑
without I guess getting into how you make the decision, because I can't take all
of that into account. I don't
really know everything that is involved in how you come to this
decision.
7072 I would have to say as
far as the aboriginal portion of the application, I would like to assert that
the aboriginal community in Canada historically, and probably right up until
today, is the most challenged community in the country. The impact that a national radio service
would have on the aboriginal community in the country, I just think is
tremendously large in terms of the positive benefits and I guess the positive
benefits into the community in order to turn around the historical
situation.
7073 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You see, we agree with
that and that's why we have given so many licences. We are 100 percent on side with
that.
7074 It is then taking the
next step. If we could vote for you
to get money, we would all vote for it, I'm pretty sure. I haven't canvassed my colleagues, but
I'm pretty sure everybody at this table would. They can speak for
themselves.
7075 So that part is
okay. It is just why should we
think more of CHUM's application as an application for a station because they
are doing this?
7076 We think a lot of CHUM
because they are doing it, as a philanthropic organization. And everyone in this room would probably
say the same thing.
7077 But they want the same
frequency that the Evanovs want or Harvard, at least the same right to use the
frequency. Usually we look at what
kind of programming will they give to the people, the same way we assessed your
applications. What is their
business plan like? What will they
do for talent development? And all
the normal things that we lay out in our public notices when we say come and
apply for licences.
7078 Now they have added an
extra element.
7079 I think I put the
question to the CHUM team earlier.
There were so many questions, forgive me if I didn't. What if someone came here and said: Hey, we are going to give $4.5 million
to the fight against breast cancer?
That would be nice for the people who were trying to stop breast cancer
and for every woman in the country.
7080 So how do we weigh
this?
7081 When I see Mr. McLeod
read to us the list of these very important and influential people who support
this application, does Phil Fontaine really support CHUM Adult Contemporary
Radio in Calgary or does Phil Fontaine support the notion of Aboriginal Voices
getting a leg up and getting started and getting going?
7082 I think we all know the
answer to that.
7083 I have met Phil
Fontaine. I have a huge respect for
Phil Fontaine, but I bet you he couldn't tell me two things about the CHUM
application. He would say it was
radio and they know how to run a radio station, probably.
7084 So how do we weigh this
in the terms of all the other applicants here who have the same dream as
CHUM?
7085 MR. HILL: Commissioner, if I could, I would like
to ask Mr. Bob Wood to talk further on your question.
7086 MR. WOOD: Commissioner Langford, Phil Fontaine
does know one thing about the application presented by CHUM, and that is that
they will contribute $4.5 million to AVR.
7087 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: That's precisely my
point.
7088 MR. WOOD: Exactly. So that's number
one.
7089 Second, to go to your
question about why this benefit, what is the point of all of this, I think that
goes to the question of why have benefits at all in a licensing process, if
that's a question.
7090 The third point to
answer your question, it goes back to the Broadcasting Act. The Broadcasting Act clearly states that
the Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the needs and interests of the
aboriginal community when funds become available.
7091 So that is what makes
this particular initiative, if you will, unique and special and
necessary.
7092 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Is it the kind of
precedent ‑‑ and I'm familiar with the Broadcasting Act. I think you will agree that what you
have just quoted to me is only one aspect of it. There are a lot of other directions in
section 3, as well.
7093 They don't take away
from that one. I agree with
you.
7094 What happens if we
follow this to a logical extreme?
Is it only people who have millions of dollars to give away? Do they get a better chance at a licence
than a local group who has worked and scraped, the same as you
have?
7095 There are applicants
here who don't have much money. If
you were here yesterday, you heard from some of them. They have dreams and they have
aspirations. They have
experience. They have business
backers. They have plans. But they don't have $4.5 million to
give to anyone.
7096 It is difficult for me
to understand. As much as we have
already shown our support for AVR by giving out lots of licences in areas where
there are scarce frequencies, Calgary included, it is difficult for me to
understand how you can lift that direction from broadcasting, attach it to a
kind of ‑‑ and I say this in the kindest way because all aspects of
applications are self‑serving; attach it to a self‑serving part of an
application ‑‑ and that is not a criticism. That is how people structure
applications.
7097 How do we do that? If we set a precedent like that, how do
we go forward? How do we control
it?
7098 We may end up like the
United States where essentially we are setting up an auction, a bidding process
for licences.
7099 MR. HILL: Commissioner, can I respond about maybe,
I don't want to say marketplace rationales but the rationales as far as the
benefits on Canadian society.
7100 I know, I can
appreciate how many different factors you have to take into account when you
make these decisions because I know the decision can be quite
complicated.
7101 I would imagine, not
being in your position, that one of the things you take into account is the
quality of the service that will be delivered into Canadian society, and I would
think that would weigh heavily when you consider an applicant like CHUM who has
a long track record of delivering extremely high quality
service.
7102 I think that speaks to
maybe the reason why CHUM has been successful.
7103 So I think there is
always a mix, and this is of course the challenge of the Commission: How do you divide up the mix between
maybe let's say an older, more experienced applicant like CHUM as opposed to
maybe a newer and smaller applicant for a
licence?
7104 I can't give you all of
the things that one would consider, but I would think as far as CHUM is
concerned you would want to consider that it would be the highest quality of
service. And that, as far as
Canadian society is concerned, certainly the Calgary population, is a very
important consideration.
7105 As I think about the
application, the benefits package is one part of it. I know that you do look at again how
strong is the benefits package and how much will it impact the people that it is
meant to.
7106 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You have spoken very
eloquently and I think you have summed up our dilemma. You have also summed up in a sense one
of your greatest strengths. CHUM is
a very professional operator and they would, if licensed ‑‑ nobody in this
room would doubt it ‑‑ provide a very good service for the people of
Calgary.
7107 You have spoken
eloquently and you have given us some help in trying to figure out how to
balance that with the obvious benefits to AVR. No one would deny them. And your obvious need, no one would deny
that.
7108 As well, I hope I have
given you a bit of an understanding of what we are struggling with
here.
7109 If it was just simply a
matter of me saying "three cheers for AVR; this will help", I think everyone in
the room would say go. But it is
not that.
7110 We also have a whole
licensing structure here that we somehow have to keep focused on what the
licensing process is generally focused on.
That is how you won your licences, so you don't want it to fall
apart.
7111 MR. HILL: Yes.
7112 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: If you are successful,
you will be back for more licences.
There are areas of this country where you haven't got licences yet. You don't want it to fall apart because
someone finds a better needy outfit to give benefits to and all of a sudden you
can't compete.
7113 In a sense, I hope you
understand. I think you do from
your last comments. I hope you
understand our problem. We want to
support AVR, but we very much want to keep our licensing process clean and fair
to all the people who come before us.
7114 Those are my questions
and comments. I'm sorry to have
gone on so long, but it is something that I am struggling with personally. It is a difficult part of this
decision. It is a new element in a
licensing framework for us.
7115 I am finding it
difficult to struggle with, and I thank you very much for your
assistance.
7116 Those are my comments,
Mr. Chair.
7117 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Langford.
7118 For the record, CHUM
filed yesterday afternoon a copy of the July 26, 2005 letter regarding the
commitment that they have made with AVR regarding the financial
contribution.
7119 That was not part of
the record, but it is now part of the record. For anyone who wants to consult the
document, it is available at the examination room.
7120 Thank you very much,
Mr. Hill.
7121 MR. HILL: Thank you.
7122 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will move to the next
intervenor.
7123 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Chairman, for the record, I would
like to indicate that the intervenor Solange McAlister will not be appearing
this morning. She is intervention
No. 680.
7124 I will now call on the
next three intervenors to come up to the front: RGB Productions Ltd., Ms Lucy Henry; The
Asian Heritage Foundation of Southern Alberta; and Priti
Obhrai‑Martin.
‑‑‑
Pause
7125 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Ms Lucy Henry for
RGB Productions to present her intervention.
7126 You have ten minutes to
do so. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
7127 MS HENRY: Good morning. My name is Lucy Henry and I am the Event
Co‑ordinator for RGB Productions.
7128 RGB has been promoting
independent Alberta bands for over five years. RGB's premier event is Alberta's Own
Independent Music Festival. This
annual event features up to 50 of Alberta's top indie bands featuring a wide
variety of musical genres, including Pop, Hot AC, Hard Rock, Rock, Funk, Punk,
Folk, Blues, Jazz and Christian.
7129 The purpose of
Alberta's Own is to showcase independent artists, helping them gain experience
and exposure.
7130 I would like to thank
the CRTC for taking the time to consider CHUM Limited's application for a new FM
radio station here in Calgary and providing me with the opportunity to highlight
what we feel are the most important points of our
intervention.
7131 CHUM's application for
Energy 104.5 will not only provide Calgarians with a great new radio station but
will initiate needed support for the development of new Canadian talent with
their proposed Indie Artists Initiative.
7132 The greatest challenge
for independent artists is to gain momentum from local star to regional star,
regional star to national star, and national star to international star. There is nothing greater than community
support to develop awareness of new emerging artists.
7133 CHUM's Indie Artist
Initiative has three key components to promote emerging independent
artists. These include airplay,
marketing and promotion and the emerging indie CD series.
7134 CHUM has proposed to
add one track from an emerging independent Canadian artist to their playlist
from coast to coast each month.
CHUM has ten stations which will play the artist of the month track a
minimum of 15 times per week for a month.
This will result in the emerging artist's music reaching an audience of
over 2 million Canadians.
7135 This recognition will
encourage other programmers to take a chance on a new song, hence increasing the
awareness of this emerging artist even more.
7136 CHUM will also be
partnering with a major retailer to stock, display and promote the artist of the
month.
7137 In addition, CHUM will
create a 30‑second produced commercial campaign promoting the artist of the
month and participating stations will air that commercial free of
charge.
7138 This exposure will give
the retailers a much needed incentive to stock and showcase material from
Canadian artists.
7139 In addition, CHUM Radio
Calgary will air a new music special called "Demo Depot". This will be an hour show highlighting
independent music from the Calgary region.
7140 We are seeing a trend
where the public wants to be involved in the making of stars. This is where the demo depot comes
in. Each week listeners will be
encouraged to vote on line rating the music. Along with playing independent music,
they will offer interviews with upcoming artists and promote the venues to see
live music.
7141 This is a true
community initiative which will also work closely with Alberta's Own in both
promoting and the programming of our event.
7142 CHUM will also host a
summer Cafe series in Calgary for ten weeks, during June, July and August. The Cafe series will stage live
lunch‑time concerts in several downtown locations featuring emerging Canadian
artists from both indie and major label rosters.
7143 The intent of these
shows is to build awareness and appreciation for new Canadian
talent.
7144 Many people hear the
word "indie" or "emerging artist" and they have the perception of a basement
band not good enough for mainstream.
CHUM's Indie Artist Initiative will put these perceptions to
bed.
7145 CHUM's vision of
developing regional, national and international stars will initiate more
awareness in both the public and business sectors. This recognition will build stronger
communities by supporting local businesses and teaching kids to believe in their
dreams.
7146 CHUM's application for
Energy 104.5 proves their belief in strengthening communities, not only with
their indie initiatives but also with their support for FACTOR, the Radio
Starmaker Fund, CARS Music Education Program and Aboriginal Voices
Radio.
7147 RGB Productions feel
that CHUM is the right company to serve Calgarians and the greater
community. Dreams can be a
reality. We strongly recommend the
Commission approve CHUM's application so we can help emerging Canadian talent
move from regional stars to international stars.
7148 Again, thank
you.
7149 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7150 We will hear the three
presentations. Then we may have
some questions.
7151 THE SECRETARY: Then I would call on the intervention of
The Asian Heritage Foundation of Southern Alberta.
7152 You have ten minutes
for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7153 MS WOO‑PAW: I am Teresa Woo‑Paw and I am the Chair
of The Asian Heritage Foundation of Southern Alberta, as well as the Chair of
the Ethnocultural Council of Calgary.
7154 The Asian Heritage
Foundation has been a driving force for Calgary's Asian Heritage Month
Celebration since we first introduced the festivity to Calgary in 2001. Our Asian events have received strong
support from Calgarians and recognized by all levels of
government.
7155 Our main objective is
to foster appreciation for the participation and contribution of Asian Canadians
through cultural and educational activities.
7156 Our focus is the
mainstream Asian Canadian issues arts and culture.
7157 The Foundation benefits
from a network of over 20 community organizations, as well as program partners
such as the public library, booksellers, Calgary's Philharmonic Orchestra, Film
Board and various levels of government.
7158 The Ethnocultural
Council of Calgary is formed with a mandate to act as the collective voice of
visible minority communities in order to influence social, economic and
political change through collaborative actions.
7159 Our membership includes
over 45 major organizations in Calgary's Chinese, African communities, Filipino
communities, South Asian communities and various South American communities, as
well as individuals.
7160 With promoting the
interests and meaningful participation of members of visible minority
communities in all aspects of Canadian life and providing a forum for Calgary's
visible minority communities to discuss and address issues and concerns that
impact on the communities as our key objective, we have organized community
forums on consultation, community based action research, as well as public
education activities over the past few years.
7161 The Council has
established extensive linkages and networks with Calgary's varied communities
and institutions throughout initiatives and membership.
7162 Given the stated
objectives and mandates of both the Ethnocultural Council and Asian Heritage
Foundation of Southern Alberta, we share CHUM Radio's interest in providing a
station in our city that includes providing programs for young Calgarians,
celebrating Calgary's diversity and supporting Calgary's civic‑minded
community.
7163 The growing minority
communities would greatly benefit from a mainstream media element that is
committed to including their voices and providing them the space to celebrate
and entertain with diverse formats and sources, as well as to inform and debate
issues that are important to the targeted population.
7164 Youth who participated
in a Council focus group on civic participation and participation in both the
community and broader society told us they prefer cross cultures rather than
ethno‑specific settings, programs and venues. They believe that kind of setting would
create greater networks and strengths.
7165 They said they need
programs and activities that cater specifically to youth interests and
needs. People should let the youth
decide what they like to do.
7166 They also told us that
they should have free flowing discussions, forums. They feel that they have to feel safe so
that they can participate freely.
7167 Youth who participated
in a Calgary system evaluation on immigrant youth services in Calgary in 2005
said they don't feel they are understood by the adults and by institutions and
service organizations. Their issues
are not heard and they need a stronger voice.
7168 As a long‑term member
of the former Calgary Diversity Leadership Council and Chair of the Council and
the Foundation, I believe we need to explore and support different approaches
and venues, engage young Calgarians on issues such as active citizenship and
community engagement in ways that are effective to the targeted population. We have a need to create an environment
that is secure and accepting for these populations to explore and express their
diverse views, beliefs and perspectives.
7169 Calgary is a socially,
culturally and economically dynamic, energetic and rapidly growing city with a
younger than national average population.
We offer the fourth most racially diverse city in the country. Various city initiative infrastructures
such as the Centre for Arts Authority are indicative of our keen interest and
commitments in enhancing the cultural vibrancy of our city of
opportunities.
7170 In order to have
programs that are authentically inclusive of cultural and racial diversity, it
must be congruent with and be driven by a set of organizational beliefs and
practices that embrace, and breathe and live diversity.
7171 We believe CHUM's
corporate values of inclusion, reflection, quality, relevance, accessibility,
understanding and respect, their best practices used as a reference by the
Canadian Association of Broadcasters to draw up the industry guidelines on
cultural diversity, will not only give Calgary's growing minority communities
the much needed assurance and hope for the mainstreaming of diversity in media,
it will also serve as a prime model for inclusive
organizations.
7172 CHUM will help raise
the bar for the industry, as well as a city taking strides to respond to this
growing diversity.
7173 We share strongly with
the CRTC's belief that the broadcasting system should be a mirror in which all
Canadians can see themselves and all broadcasters contribute to a system that
accurately reflects the presence in Canada of cultural, ethnic and racial
minorities and aboriginal peoples.
7174 If mainstream media is
to reflect the true diversity of Canadian society, it must take into account the
racial and multicultural make‑up of these markets. CHUM's policies, best practices and
current operations in other major cities in Canada are strong evidence of their
living commitment to inclusion and cultural diversity in
Canada.
7175 We would like to extend
our strong support for CHUM's application and we urge you to grant the licence
to CHUM Limited for operation in Calgary, as we look forward to CHUM's
participation and contributions in our diverse and dynamic
city.
7176 Thank
you.
7177 THE SECRETARY: We now call on Mrs. Priti
Obhrai‑Martin to make her presentation.
INTERVENTION
7178 MS OBHRAI‑MARTIN: Thank
you.
7179 Mr. Vice‑Chair, Members
of the Commission, good morning. My
name is Priti Obhrai‑Martin and I am the publisher and President of
cuemagazine.ca, Calgary's first and only cross‑culturally based e‑read and the
inspiration for the "CUE Review".
7180 This is one of CHUM's
innovative local programs for Energy FM.
This is a one‑hour weekly talk show which will feature local cultural
news, a weekly review of Calgary cuisine, called "Planetary Palette", club news,
music reviews and coverage of local events, as well as in‑depth interviews with
representatives from various cultural groups and top musical
artists.
7181 I am here not only to
support CHUM in their application for this radio but also to convey to you the
nature of our partnership and our commitment to this application, the importance
and impact of our audience demographic on the vibrancy and the true identity of
Calgary, and most importantly why we chose to partner up with CHUM for this
project.
7182 So who and what is
CUE?
7183 As mentioned, we are
Calgary's first and only cross‑cultural on‑line magazine. We cater to Calgary's young urban
professionals who straddle more than one cultural identity: the cross‑cultural
community.
7184 Cultural Urban
Essence ‑‑ also known as CUE ‑‑ examines mainstream issues from
diverse perspectives by exploring various subjects that impact the metropolitan
culture of Calgary.
7185 Our mission is to be
informative, entertaining and inspiring while covering the many facts of life
and technology, to travel, to personalities to personal
growth.
7186 Our online magazine is
dedicated to showcasing the true diversity of Calgary's urban mosaic through
insightful commentary, cultural depiction and through supporting arts and
community events.
7187 CUE supports the many
talents hidden in our midst by ways of film festivals, community events and so
much more.
7188 I am proud to say that
our readership in the last two years has grown from 200 subscribers to over
3,000 subscribers, and this is through word of mouth alone. We average 150,000 hits a
month.
7189 It is important to
understand how this tiny but fast‑growing magazine came to be in
Calgary.
7190 A few years ago I had
the privilege of learning about CHUM Limited and their media outlets in other
cities, mostly by watching them as I travelled and worked across Canada. What I noticed was that in these cities
I was being reflected. My interests
were being showcased, and I felt as though for the first time I was considered
part of mainstream Canada.
7191 This happened in
Ottawa, Victoria, Vancouver and Toronto.
What I wondered was why did it not occur here in
Calgary?
7192 After my travels I
finished my schooling in public relations with a minor in journalism and set up
myself as being one of Calgary's few media relations advisors for the cultural
communities here in Calgary.
7193 This happened mostly
because there was a need for the cultural communities to be included in
Calgary's media coverage, yet this bridge was difficult to build, mostly because
none of Calgary's media outlets were willing to hear their
voices.
7194 I have to tell you that
I struggled in Calgary to get our mainstream media to see these communities as
anything but festivals, food and clothing.
There was no cross‑cultural reflection, no coverage of social and
economic events, and no solicitation of their perspective on local and national
events.
7195 I worked with many
different organizations to reach out to the media community, to try to show them
ways to be inclusive. To my
frustration, many of them did not listen and kept telling that there was no
audience for this here in Calgary.
And more importantly there was no money to be made if they were to be
included.
7196 Well, I'm here to tell
you that CUE was developed to show them that they were
wrong.
7197 I am proud to say that
we were successful in this endeavour by not only proving that there was an
audience for this, but they were also advertising hungry for this
audience.
7198 In two short years CUE
has grown from my personal website to a full‑fledged interactive and informative
website in which many Calgarians submit articles that reflect and share their
perspectives, cultural practices, life experiences, community businesses and so
much more.
7199 There is a serious lack
of cross‑cultural inclusion in Calgary's media, and because of this there is
little if any choice for our business communities to spend their advertising
dollars. In Calgary our media
outlets pretty much chase the same advertisers, thus making it seem as though
there is little room for opportunities in
Calgary.
7200 I ask you to challenge
our media community to become more inclusive in their coverage, and you will see
that they will automatically attract businesses from the ethnic community, from
young entrepreneurs, from corporate Calgary, small businesses and major
advertising firms.
7201 How do I know
this? Because these are the kinds
of advertisers that are constantly approaching us, a grassroots online
cross‑cultural magazine to do write‑ups, promotions and advertisements for
them.
7202 From our experience,
having a mandated diversity, a broadening of the demographic scope and a
realistic look at the fastest growing demographic in Calgary, the 20‑35 age
group, opens up these advertising opportunities.
7203 This is the group that
most advertisers want: the intelligent consumer with a high disposable income
and a willingness to explore their world.
7204 Once again, how do I
know this? Because this is our
demographic and this is the target audience Energy FM will be tuning into when
they listen to our radio show.
7205 As a media outlet
ourselves with a specific mandate, it is important for us to line up any
partnerships that we have with companies that have a reputation for inclusion
and diverse content and coverage.
7206 As mentioned
previously, I first became acquainted with CHUM through their television station
and was amazed by their simple and not forced cross‑cultural
inclusion.
7207 I then had the
privilege of becoming a key supporter and community champion for their previous
attempts to bringing a CityTV station to Calgary. Through this endeavour I learned more
about CHUM's corporate culture and policies and was honestly blown away by their
mandate to be cross‑culturally inclusive, not only in their hiring process but
in their reflections of the communities that they serve.
7208 I could see that this
was a media company that not only preached diversity but practised it. They got
it.
7209 It is because of this
and the fact that they are a media company with a reputation of building
community relationships, fulfilling their community promises and developing
unique content and style to deliver to their audience that we agreed to partner
up with CHUM on its innovative and unique programming.
7210 Furthermore, as you can
see by the support letters, our readers are excited about the possibility of
finally having a mainstream radio station that will reflect their music and
social needs. The cultural
communities are also excited about having a media vehicle that will promote and
support them in reaching out and finally becoming part of Calgary's mainstream
identity.
7211 In closing, I would
like to ask for your help in making a dream come true for this Calgarian. You see, I know my city is vibrant. I know my city is diverse. And I know my city is unique. But I don't see this reflected anywhere
in our city's media.
7212 As a result, everyone
thinks that there is no diversity here, that there is no vibrancy, and that this
city is extremely boring.
7213 I ask that you give us
a chance to show Calgarians, Canadians and the world Calgary's true
identity. I also ask that you see
this as an opportunity to shape a city that is growing rapidly, not only in its
economic position but with a new breed of Canadians: the young, cross‑cultural
urban professionals.
7214 This new demographic is
the heart and soul of Calgary and Canada, and because they straddle more than
one culture they are the ones that will show us how to be tolerant, peaceful and
civic‑minded. But in order to do
so, they must be included and reflected in our media.
7215 As a member of this
demographic, I sit here before you asking to be reflected and included on
Calgary's airwaves.
7216 Thank
you.
7217 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7218 I have Mrs. del
Val.
7219 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank you very much for your
interventions and your presentations today. You also elaborated on your letters and
gave me a lot of answers to questions that I had.
7220 So thank you very
much.
7221 Ms Woo‑Paw, I believe I
get the message on why you throw your support behind CHUM. I am wondering whether you are
comfortable in commenting on say why not ‑‑ in terms of the youth group and
the needs of the youth, there are at least two other applications, Harvard and
Newcap, who also target the younger
demographic.
7222 Then in terms of the
ethnic needs, there is also an application for an ethnic station. I understand that Fairchild, an existing
station, also serves some needs here.
7223 Are you comfortable on
commenting on why those are not sufficient or why your support is behind CHUM
rather than any of those existing services or services that the applicants are
applying for?
7224 MS WOO‑PAW: I will try to answer to the best of my
ability.
7225 I have to admit that I
am not aware of the other applications, nor have those applicants approached the
organizations that I represent, that I am a part of.
7226 As an active member of
Calgary's Chinese community and the minority community, I am aware of some of
the awareness raised by some of the other media institutions. However, I think that the ‑‑ I have
been doing this community work for 30 years, and my background is social
work. I truly believe that what we
need in Canada now, in terms of diversity development, is to have organizations
that truly are culturally competent, from its governance to its programs and to
its human resource practices.
7227 CHUM is one of those
organizations. That is why we have
thrown our support behind CHUM.
They approached us. They did
not meet only with myself; they met with people from the Filipino community, the
youth from the Filipino community, the Vietnamese youth group in
Calgary.
7228 So I am actually a
messenger from many community groups who actually are very excited about this
opportunity. They want to have
their voices included and reflected in a mainstream station that is
cross‑cultural, and they want to have their voices heard by other Calgarians,
not just by the ethnic community.
7229 That is why I am
here. The youth and the
communities, they want this opportunity to be included and reflected in
Calgary.
7230 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank you. That is a good answer. Thank you for your
time.
7231 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Ron Williams.
7232 COMMISSIONER
WILLIAMS: Good
morning.
7233 My question is for Ms
Obhrai‑Martin.
7234 You talked about the
reflection and participation of minorities and aboriginal peoples in Canada's
broadcasting system.
7235 Should our Broadcasting
Act, as Commissioner Langford suggested, contain provisions for funding, I think
he said needy groups, breast cancer or other lofty initiatives, or should we
make our decisions on licensing matters by confining our thinking process to the
Broadcasting Act and to the presentations that are before
us?
7236 I would be interested
to hear your thoughts on that matter.
7237 MS OBHRAI‑MARTIN: Absolutely. I'm glad you asked that, because my
experience working in Calgary with these communities, as well as my government
relations experience, leads me to believe that first and foremost the CRTC needs
to see the needs of the city when they are giving out the
licence.
7238 I don't think it should
be about who needs the most money, what lobby group is coming up to you. What is required, first of all, is that
lobby group actually addressing a need?
7239 For example, here in
Calgary for the aboriginals and the minorities, and the cross‑cultural
community, there is no reflection.
There is no place for us to feel as though we are included, our
perspectives are included.
Therefore, there is a need for it.
7240 I think that is the
most important thing to understand.
Calgary is growing and it no longer is the same city that it was 10, 15
years ago. It is growing and it is
growing into a new direction.
7241 We are the fastest
growing city. We are the fourth
city for immigration. We are also
highly educated, post secondary.
When you look at this demographic, you look at who makes it up. It is everybody. It is the aboriginals. It is the minorities. It is mainstream Canadians. Yet at the same time there is no
inclusion of everybody's perspective being reflected in media in
Calgary.
7242 To me, it is kind
of ‑‑ I don't think it is whoever gets the most money. That is not important. What is important is who is making the
effort to have those communities being included into their application and who
is doing it in a way that is effective, that is creative, that is innovative and
that is actually meeting a market niche.
7243 At the end of the day
one of the things that the CRTC will be looking at is if there are dollars that
can help sustain this particular application. I am telling you, I know from experience
in working with media in Calgary that they all keep telling me there is only so
many dollars that are available for advertisers. I am like, well, how is it possible that
I can go out there and sell the same things to different advertisers in Calgary
and broaden my advertising scope by just broadening who my demographics are and
by being inclusive?
7244 Does that answer your
question?
7245 COMMISSIONER
WILLIAMS: I think I get the
impression that, from your opinion, there is a lot of work to be done yet in the
Broadcasting Act before we take on the tremendous challenges of cancer and
widespread economic development or those types of issues.
7246 MS OBHRAI‑MARTIN: Absolutely. I think it is important to see that, but
I also think it is important to see that there is a community that can support
it.
7247 There is no point in
giving money to cancer in a place where there is hardly anybody that can help
give money back, support the cause, be part of the marathons. Here in Calgary we do have the
population. We do have the need for
that.
7248 It is very important to
see what the application is and what the end result is going to
be.
7249 COMMISSIONER
WILLIAMS: Thank you very
much.
7250 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7251 Your three
presentations were very comprehensive and will help us in our
deliberations. Thank
you.
7252 Madam
Secretary.
7253 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7254 I would now call on the
next two intervenors to come to the front.
It is the intervention of Sean Libin from Stride Management, and Mr.
Chikinda from Mount Royal College.
‑‑‑
Pause
7255 THE SECRETARY: We would first ask Mr. Libin from
Stride Management to start their intervention.
7256 You will have ten
minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7257 MR. LIBIN: Thank you.
7258 Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners, CRTC staff, good morning.
My name is Sean Libin. I am
appearing today in support of 1182743 Alberta Ltd. in their application for The
Lounge 92.9 FM.
7259 Specifically, I would
like to address the need for this radio station that proposes to serve the
45‑plus audience from an advertising and marketing perspective, from where I
come from.
7260 I would first like to
give you a little background on my experience and qualifications to speak to
this topic.
7261 Over the past 18 years
I have held several senior marketing positions in the Calgary market, including
media buying and media director roles.
And for several years I held the position of Director of Marketing for
Corus Entertainment's Country Music Television Specialty
Channel.
7262 Today I am the
Vice‑President of Marketing with Stride, a full service marketing and
advertising agency with offices in Calgary as our head office and branch offices
in Edmonton, with a staff of 40 and annual billings in excess of $10
million.
7263 In the case of radio in
Calgary, Stride works regularly with all radio stations, including Rogers,
Standard and Corus properties, as well as independent stations such as Newcap's
California 103.1.
7264 I am very intrigued and
encouraged with the proposed Lounge FM radio
station.
7265 While I was approached
to intervene in support of more than one licence being considered here this
week, I only agreed to speak on behalf of The Lounge
application.
7266 Why? First and foremost, I feel there is a
void in the Calgary FM radio landscape in two areas.
7267 The first is in easy
listening content and the second is the delivery of news
content.
7268 In broader terms, I
would argue that generally speaking, there is a lack of FM radio services
catering to the 45‑plus audience. I
know this because we have several clients that specifically target this
demographic, and we often find ourselves struggling to develop effective radio
campaigns for them. We often end up
having to buy three and even four stations deep in an effort to find the
efficiencies we seek and require for a specific campaign.
7269 The 45‑plus market is
the fastest growing segment of the Calgary population, and there is no question
that there is ample audience to support The Lounge FM as a viable radio
station.
7270 I am certainly not a
research expert, nor a statistician, but I recently pulled some of the numbers
to determine if my gut instinct was actually valid or just
heartburn.
7271 According to the 2004
City of Calgary Municipal Census, the 45‑plus population in Calgary now totals
just over 304,000 people, meaning that one in three Calgarians is over the age
of 45.
7272 In terms of radio
listening habits, when I am buying radio against the 45‑plus demo and I refer to
the BBM S4 survey, or what we used to call the Fall Book, total market share of
adults 45‑plus is only 74 percent, leaving me to ask the question: If a station caters specifically to the
45‑plus Calgarian, would listenership increase?
7273 I believe it
would.
7274 While arguably all
stations have some degree of 45‑plus listenership, no FM station specifically
caters to this important demographic.
7275 If we steer away from
age demographics for a moment and specifically look toward genres or
programming, one can make the point that there is certainly no FM station
serving Calgary providing a strong news focus.
7276 The Lounge FM proposes
to fill this void with hourly newscasts throughout the day and three dedicated
news reporters.
7277 One can make the point
that there is currently no FM station serving Calgary providing an easy
listening format, particularly in light of Breeze 103.1 FM's recent format
change to California 103.1 and with Lite 96's brightening of their music
mix.
7278 The Lounge FM proposes
to fill this void with a uniquely programmed modern nostalgic mix of music that
will certainly and obviously appeal to the 45‑plus crowd, while also remaining
inviting to younger listeners.
7279 As a person who just
entered his forties, I must say on a personal note that I happen to also enjoy
the distinct format being proposed with The Lounge. It is a station that I know I would tune
into personally and therefore I am confident that of the 304,000 other older
Calgarians, I would not be alone.
7280 That said, it is one
thing to make the case that there is a void, which I hope I have, but it is
another matter to determine whether the demographic not being served even needs
to be.
7281 How important is the
45‑plus demographic to our society?
7282 According to Boomers
Marketing, people over 45 are responsible for more expenditures than any other
group in Canada, some $35 billion a year.
Canadians over 45 control about three‑quarters of our nation's
wealth. They enjoy a median net
worth that is about double the average and are forecast to inherit about $1
trillion dollars between now and 2015.
7283 Canadians over 45 are
active and vibrant.
7284 When I recently
celebrated my big 4‑0 this past December, I for the first time became a little
age conscious. I was recently at a
corporate function just about a week ago with a lot of 20‑year‑old business
women there, and one of them told me that 40 is the new 20. So I was quite excited to hear
that.
7285 I am very fortunate to
live in what many are calling the most vibrant city in Canada. Calgary's economy, as you have already
heard, is strong. Our population is
growing faster than we can manage it, with an influx of fresh new faces. And our future is certainly
bright.
7286 The time is right to
grant new FM licences within Calgary.
7287 There are currently FM
stations stumbling over each other with similar programming and equally, as I
have pointed out, there are holes in the fabric of FM radio in
Calgary.
7288 Obviously the
Commission needs to carefully consider how to best fill these holes. I know that you
will.
7289 I strongly suggest that
now is the right time for the Commission to license an FM station that
specifically targets adults 45‑plus in Calgary. Now is the right time to license an FM
station dedicated to providing news content, and now is the right time to
license an FM station that will provide a unique forum of modern nostalgic music
programming.
7290 I heard you ask a
previous intervenor why this application versus another similar one. I am confident that The Lounge 92.9 FM's
application is the best choice to provide these services. The applicant has clearly researched and
understands the potential audience and has created a dynamic radio format that
will fill these existing voids.
7291 Perhaps even more
importantly, though, as a Calgarian, as a person who actually grew up in Central
Alberta where you learned to support your own, I also look positively to the
fact that The Lounge FM will be a Calgary radio station owned and operated by
Calgarians, whereas all other stations in this market are part of larger media
corporations with eastern‑based management who have, in my opinion, on too many
occasions proved that they are not necessarily in touch with Calgary's unique
personality.
7292 I have had the pleasure
of working alongside Mr. Larsen when we both worked for Corus Properties, and I
can say unequivocally that Mr. Larsen and his Lounge FM management team,
some of whom I also know, have demonstrated extensive experience, creativity and
capability in radio broadcasting, including extensive experience right here in
the Calgary market.
7293 I would respectfully
request that the Commission seriously consider licensing 1182743 Alberta Ltd.
and The Lounge 92.9 FM.
7294 I would be pleased to
take any questions you may have.
7295 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7296 We will hear from the
next intervenor.
7297 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Chairman, it is Mr. Chikinda from
Mount Royal College.
7298 Please go
ahead.
INTERVENTION
7299 MR. CHIKINDA: Bienvenue. Welcome, Mr. Vice‑Chairman, Members of
the Commission, to our city. I hope
that the legendary hospitality and warmth of the hospitality of this city will
in some way complement in the best possible sense your stay
here.
7300 My name is Marc
Chikinda. I am an instructor of
broadcast journalism at Mount Royal College here in the city of Calgary. I am also the acting Chair of the
broadcasting program at that institution.
7301 As others have said to
you ‑‑ and I am sure this morning was an example of that, and I am sure it
occurred at other points throughout the presentations before you ‑‑ my
little city of 160,000 people when I was born has grown to virtually almost one
million, certainly one million before the year 2010.
7302 It is changing. It has an insatiable demand, in my view,
for public information, for news, for current affairs.
7303 Calgary, I think second
only to our nation's capital, Ottawa, is the most wired community in Canada in
terms of the internet.
7304 We are reaching out
constantly for information in Calgary.
As Members of the Commission will remember, we had just last month, in
January, political events in our nation.
Governments come and governments go, prime ministers come and prime
ministers go. It may be that the
putative centre of the universe of our country, which formerly may have been
considered to be east of here, might be resident in the city of Calgary for a
while at least.
7305 Be that as it may,
Calgarians love information. They
need it. They even lust for it,
Members of the Commission.
7306 What is inherent in
this, and is at its very core, it seems to me, is a promise of performance in
that the largest FM radio newsroom would be established in our city with this
application before you. And that is
not an insignificant undertaking.
7307 We have heard earlier
people reference the need for diversity and I echo those needs, those demands
for change.
7308 I have been involved in
the news area for mostly 25 years, I would suggest, both as a reporter, as a
news anchor and now as an instructor of broadcast
journalism.
7309 I have seen the literal
face of news change. Diversity is
here within my city but it needs to be accommodated in newsrooms. It seems to me, Members of the
Commission, that the way to do that is to staff a newsroom so that people can go
out and encounter the diversity that is exists on the streets of this
city.
7310 News does not come to
reporters. Reporters must seek it
out. Therefore, Members of the
Commission, there have to be resources in place and a healthy vibrant newsroom
is the way to get that done.
7311 I applaud this
application for its undertaking to do exactly that.
7312 I understand, as well,
that there is an undertaking to provide an unparalleled, in my view and in my
experience, partnership with broadcast education in this application before
you.
7313 Of course, I welcome
that. The idea of hiring fresh from
colleges, and not just my institution but other institutions, young graduates of
broadcast education to be news reporters, to be on‑air, to be involved in
production, is something I have never encountered.
7314 While I have intervened
on paper before, I did not and have not until now asked for permission to appear
in front of you. I do so because I
feel very strongly about this promise of performance, this
undertaking.
7315 I wish to urge Members
of the Commission to know this:
that even if that promise were not there, if there were no mention
whatsoever of a potential partnership, I would still be before you today in
support of this application because it offers the best hope for increased public
information, news and spoken word programming in our city.
7316 We need to know more
about each other as Canadians. For
Heaven's sake, in my province, Calgarians and Edmontonians rarely speak to each
other, except on the playing field.
We lack communication. The
way to increase communication is to understand and know more about each
other.
7317 With a large healthy FM
radio newsroom, I suggest to you, Members of the Commission, that becomes more
possible.
7318 I began my career in
this city by working for CBC. A
very serendipitous alignment of the planets allowed me to graduate from the
institution I now teach at and to work in current affairs, radio current affairs
and news at CBC.
7319 On the first day on the
job my news supervisor said, "Of course, you will want to change your
name." And I said, "Of course, I
will not change my name. It was
good enough for my father to carry into the Second World War in defence of this
country. I will keep my name. Thank you very
much."
7320 I am very proud to say
that things have changed dramatically in Calgary and yes, even in Alberta. Nobody asks that people change their
names any more.
7321 I want to extend to the
FM community, to the FM listening audiences of this city, a radio news service
that provides diversity, provides tolerance, provides respect, and above all
provides information that I believe Calgarians desperately need, not just from
the drive‑in period of 6:00 to 9:00, but also not just from 4:00 to 6:00 when
they drive home; all throughout the day.
And, moreover, an hour each day at noon to provide that information in a
way that currently isn't happening on the FM dial.
7322 So I am very proud to
lend my name in support of this application. I know that your task is not easy. How can it be easy? You have a lot of conflicting criteria,
demands placed upon you.
7323 I urge you, as I am
sure you do, to think not only of the demands and needs of the Calgary audience
of today but also the Calgary audience ten years from now.
7324 I strongly support this
application, and I thank you very much for your time.
7325 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Chikinda.
7326 I will ask Mr. Langford
to ask his questions.
7327 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
7328 When I worked for CBC,
they wanted me to change my voice.
‑‑‑
Laughter
7329 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I wasn't prepared to
undergo the required operation, so I went into another line of
work.
7330 My question actually is
to you, Mr. Libin. Is that
right?
7331 MR. LIBIN: Yes.
7332 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You don't have to change
your name. I just have to learn how
to pronounce it.
7333 I am interested in
picking your sort of unique perspective on what we are doing here. I don't want you to pick any other
winners for us, or losers, but I would like you to kind of give me an idea of
where there are other market holes.
7334 You are saying there is
a big demographic that needs to be served by advertisers over 45 and I certainly
got that message. Are there any
other holes there?
7335 We are hearing from the
applicants before us, and certainly from the economic surveys that we have done,
it looks like Calgary can absorb more than one licensee.
7336 Let's assume for a
moment that you get your wish and that, if not specifically what you are asking
for but the wish in the sense of the demographic you want served is getting
served.
7337 Is there another
demographic that is highly underserved in this area?
7338 MR. LIBIN: I think we have addressed the two
biggest ones, which is news content on the FM dial. Right now in this market, QR77, which is
an AM property of course, really has the lock on that market. Whether you like Mr. Rutherford in the
mornings or not, you don't have a lot of choice. You get what they give
you.
7339 I think that spoken
word, from an advertising standpoint ‑‑ you have spoken about CBC. If I could buy advertising on CBC, I
would do that in a heartbeat. But
that is a discussion for another day.
7340 So spoken word is
certainly the biggest one.
7341 That upper age limit, I
think if you wanted to extend that demographic 45 and even go 65‑plus, there is
certainly a void there.
7342 One of our largest
clients is the Royal Canadian Legion, which obviously skews to an older
demographic. I think there is a
real big void. The further up the
age spectrum you go, I think the void continues to grow
there.
7343 Equally, if you wanted
to argue ‑‑ although from an advertising standpoint we haven't been tasked
with it yet, but that is simply because we haven't gone after that
business.
7344 If you went to the
opposite end of the spectrum, whereas on TV, for example, you have properties
like Treehouse and YTV that are catering to that very younger demographic kids
programming, whether it was a discovery type of a format or kids
programming.
7345 So I think it is those
outer brackets where there really is a void.
7346 I think if you take the
sort of catch‑all demographic of 25‑54, there is lots of stuff
there.
7347 Then when you get into
diversity types of issues, which I know you are hearing currently, as the
previous intervenor said, our market is becoming more and more and more diverse
daily. The more we can mirror that
ethnic and cultural diversity ‑‑ and diversity comes in so many different
forms.
7348 The more we can mirror
the make‑up of our population base as it evolves very quickly and we are
struggling to keep up with it, the better off you will be.
7349 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you very much. That is a very complete answer, and I am
grateful for it.
7350 MR. LIBIN: Thank you.
7351 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Those are my questions,
Mr. Chair.
7352 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7353 Mrs. del
Val.
7354 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
7355 Mr. Chikinda, I don't
know whether you were in the room and whether you had the chance to hear the
exchange between Mr. Langford and the AVR group.
7356 MR. CHIKINDA: This morning, yes, I was
here.
7357 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: I was wondering, since you are
an academic ‑‑
7358 MR. CHIKINDA: It is
alleged.
7359 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: I was interested in hearing
your views on the whole issue of assessing the application, the merits of the
application, and then the benefits package, and the role that the benefits
package should play in the final decision.
7360 Are you comfortable
sharing your views on that?
7361 MR. CHIKINDA: That's a delicious question and you are
asking me to walk into the hypothetical.
And I will not comment on other interventions, either for or
against.
7362 I know that the factors
that this body has to consider are many, splendoured and varied and some will
necessarily carry more weight than others. So any answer I would give you might be
considered to be political in the sense that I might be trying to find the area
that you are probing for that would give the greatest strength to this
application.
7363 Rather than do that, I
would say this.
7364 I think you need very
much to take into consideration ‑‑ and pardon the arrogance of me telling
you what your job should be. But
take into consideration, if you please, the incredible change that we have in
this city in terms of its population, its dynamism ‑‑ perhaps you have
experienced that since you have been here throughout the week, despite the
weather ‑‑ that it has a need for information that certainly, in my view,
on the FM dial is not being met; that what are the best ways of providing
increased access to a diverse group of individuals, peoples, cultural
associations through the airwaves.
7365 Is it to undertake hope
and trust or is it to look to real partnerships that provide people in situ, in
place, to provide news and information to go out to those
communities?
7366 Which application will
serve this community the best, I think needs to be considered in terms of which
application seeks to go out to those communities and seeks to put in place the
resources in order for that to happen.
7367 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank
you.
7368 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Libin. Thank you,
Chikinda.
7369 Madam
Secretary.
7370 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7371 I would like to
indicate for the record that the two following intervenors that were to appear
will not be here this morning.
7372 It is intervention No.
485, Leah Chevalier, and Marion Schroeder, which is the next one, intervention
486.
7373 I would now call on
Lari Carter and Michele McDonald to come to the front,
please.
‑‑‑
Pause
7374 THE SECRETARY: I would ask you to please identify
yourselves. You will then have ten
minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7375 MR. CARTER: My name is Lari Carter. I have spent 23 years working in the
Canadian radio industry, the last 21 years working right here in the Calgary
market.
7376 First, I would like to
thank the Commission for their tireless dedication and promotion of this vital
component of Canadian culture and for their focus indeed this week in the
hearings for the CRTC to assess a new radio licence for the city of
Calgary.
7377 I appear before the
Commission today on behalf of the Evanov Radio Group and for their application
for the FM commercial radio station to be known as The Jewel
92.9.
7378 If I may, I would like
to indulge the Commission with a little personal background and observation from
my 21 years of working in the Calgary market in radio and things I have learned
about the dynamic of the city.
7379 In January of 1981 I
began working at CHSC and CHRE in St. Catherines, Ontario. In June of that year I graduated from a
three‑year radio‑television communication arts program at Niagara College of
Applied Arts in Welland, Ontario.
7380 A year later, in
October of 1982, I was asked to be a part of the company's newly licensed FM
station in Calgary at the time.
Redmond Communications was getting a licence for an FM Country music
station in Calgary and I was asked to come out.
7381 Since I had gotten into
the business to perhaps see the best part of the country, I thought this was a
great opportunity to check out the western frontier. So I jumped at the
opportunity.
7382 I was asked on a
Thursday morning and I was on board a plane Saturday morning, so I didn't have
time to check out the who, what, where, when and why of what was all ahead. But I did get a couple of common threads
from some people who seemingly had some advice about western
Canada.
7383 I was told to make sure
that I had some thermal underwear because it's cold all the time, and to tread
carefully with the people in Calgary at the time because there was a state of
somewhat manic depression. They
were going through somewhat of an economic downturn at the
time.
7384 So I took that with a
grain of salt, but they were both dismissed rather quickly once I had spent some
time in the city.
7385 I had signed off an 11
o'clock newscast on a Thursday evening about a week before Christmas. It was minus 27 degrees. By the time I had cleaned up the
newsroom and found my way back to my hotel and ordered my late night pizza, it
was plus 13 degrees ‑‑ a change of 40 degrees inside a couple of
hours. I had no idea what was going
on. I thought I was getting
sick.
7386 When I inquired what
was going on, the person at the front desk merely shrugged and said "chinook",
that wonderful energy of Calgary that blows over the Rockie mountains: another source of energy that this city
is built on.
7387 That was my first
lesson about the expanse of the unique energy in the city, things that I learned
very quickly about what to expect in Calgary.
7388 And despite that
crushing impact from the National Energy Program at the time, there was a source
of personal energy that I had not witnessed anywhere else. There was a positive flow of forward
thinking, entrepreneurial spirit that was at least 50 percent higher than
in good times in other places in Canada that I had
experienced.
7389 The oil patch service
companies were liquidating at the time.
The oil and gas industry was shutting down and gearing down business to a
great degree. But as quickly as the
oil patch was falling, Calgary's other natural resource was souring at the
time: that progressive
entrepreneurial spirit.
7390 What affectionately
became known at the time as Calgary's native bird, the construction crane, was
busy taking over. They were
refurbishing and expanding Calgary's skyline in this economic
downturn.
7391 At the same time there
were three Calgary licences that were finding their way and riding the new wave
of economic building in the city again.
7392 Calgary's population in
1982 was just over 500,000 and before we exit the 2006 calendar year we will top
one million people in this city.
Recent Statistics Canada figures show that four of the ten fastest
growing communities in Canada are around Calgary's border right
now.
7393 Those three new radio
stations at the time flourished and became industry leaders all within their own
individual timeframe, so the airwaves were buzzing and building along with
Calgary's reviving economic growth again.
7394 With lessons learned
from Calgary's oil patch, it was still the economic engine of the time. But they had now supplemented the much
more diverse economy, fuelled by a young progressive population, a population
that I believe is pretty well served by the current variety of radio formatting
in Calgary.
7395 But that earlier
generation, the builders of this city, of the economic and that impressive
business, social and cultural model that they built in Calgary, is not being
served. There is very little choice
and variety for the 45‑plus demographic in this city. What I believe the city needs is to
reflect that quiet confidence of success of the past and that pioneering
generation that builds and continues to support this vibrant
city.
7396 A radio format for the
45‑plus demographic is long overdue.
The deficiency is going to be addressed by the Evanov Radio Group. That is their
plan.
7397 Is The Jewel FM an
adult contemporary, easy listening music with class format, indeed programming
for an easy living demographic in our city? In my humble opinion, The Jewel promises
to be a breath of fresh air for this radio market.
7398 A radio format that
will not only entertain the 45‑plus demographic, it will inform and enhance the
lifestyle of the long forgotten portion of the population. But even more important, a format that
will allow a listener to engage The Jewel without constantly punching the dial
and without looking for some alternative, that something disturbing just came on
the dial; a new sense of being able to listen to your radio at home for extended
periods of time as most program formatting in the market right now is geared
toward that 15‑minute hook only.
7399 In my brief
association, I have discovered that the Evanov Radio Group displays a type of
determination and passion that will allow them to become a solid leading
corporate citizen, especially given their mandate to support local
talent.
7400 There is a lot of local
talent that is not getting addressed, especially in this demographic in this
part of the country.
7401 Community endeavours as
well and charitable agencies will be addressed in their
application.
7402 I look forward in the
very near future to the shining new Jewel on Calgary's
frontier.
7403 I would like to thank
the Commission again for their leadership in addressing the community needs when
considering their new licence and again thank them for their time
today.
7404 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Carter.
7405 Madam
Secretary.
7406 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7407 We would now call as a
panel the following four intervenors: CADME, Mr. Kevin Willms from CADME;
Keystone Music; Blaskin & Lane Tires; and The Beach
Audio.
7408 Could you please come
to the front.
‑‑‑
Pause
7409 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Mr. Blaskin to begin
his presentation.
7410 You will have ten
minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7411 MR. BLASKIN: Thank
you.
7412 Good morning, Mr.
Chairman, Commissioners. I feel a
little out of place. There is a lot
of expert radio people in this room today.
I am coming from a little different side.
7413 I am a retailer. We buy airtime versus trying to sell it,
so a little bit of background about myself.
7414 I basically spent 16
years in the corporation and decided I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I then spent 25 years in that
market. We have some retail tire
stores and wholesale tire stores. I
also have some restaurants.
7415 So we do buy a lot of
airtime. Probably the radio at this
point in time in our budget is certainly largely on radio. That is more or less what I will be
speaking about today in support of obviously Star‑FM here in
Calgary.
7416 I have enjoyed the
corporate structure when I was working in it, but I felt that I wanted to get
into an entrepreneurial position. I
did that because I had that desire to be that way, as well this city is
definitely created for that marketplace.
It is a very vital city and it enjoys working in an entrepreneurial
atmosphere.
7417 I would also like to
talk about three of the principals of Star‑FM: Rick Meaney, Vince Tripathy, Jim
Bagshaw.
7418 I have known those
gentlemen for approximately 20 years in my business career. I find these businessmen to be morally
and ethically correct, good businessmen, supportive to my business as well. They have always been very supportive in
regard to helping us do our business, enlightening us as to what is going on in
the marketplace, even to the point of what our competition is doing and what we
should be doing to help and move forward in our business in our
marketplace.
7419 So I speak very highly
of these three gentlemen.
7420 I know there are other
principals in the company. I don't
know them as well. But my
experience with those three has been very helpful for myself and my business in
the past.
7421 We always challenge our
people that come into our business to find out what they know about our
business, and that is something that we have challenged any radio people or
newspaper people that come to our place of business to see what they can do to
help us.
7422 Again, I just want to
emphasize the importance of what we do.
What we need is an entrepreneur to have people come in and give us new
ideas and be more creative. We
would get creative meetings from these gentlemen in the past to help us find a
better way of marketing our product.
7423 As an entrepreneur in
this city, there is a lot of involvement in the charity community. We do a great deal of that
ourselves. We also turn to our
suppliers ‑‑ i.e., the radio marketplace. And again we have had great support in
this marketplace from these gentlemen.
I am looking forward to getting even more support from them with a new
station coming on.
7424 We have always enjoyed
working with the entrepreneurial radio stations because we find them to be more
flexible, more willing to work with us, give us more of their
time.
7425 We also find that it is
more helpful, being a small entrepreneur in the marketplace, that we are not
competing as much with the nationals that are buying up prime airtime. We find it is much more flexible to
allow us to get better exposure on their station as
well.
7426 Again, I would like to
speak in favour of the supporting of an independent radio station in this
marketplace for the independent entrepreneurs in this
market.
7427 I will keep my speech
short. I think that's about
it.
7428 I certainly welcome any
questions, and I thank you for the opportunity to be here.
7429 I do apologize. I do have to leave shortly. I have another session I have to go to
as well.
7430 Thank you very much for
allowing me to speak to you today.
7431 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Blaskin. I have one
question.
7432 You are in the retail
business, and you are buying airtime for your various organizations,
restaurants, you said, and retail stores selling tires.
7433 When you are buying
advertising, what are you aiming at?
Are you aiming at a certain demographic? Are you aiming at a certain type of
service or a certain music format?
7434 What has been your
experience?
7435 MR. BLASKIN: Fortunately, in some respects we are
very fortunate that we have the opportunity to service most people over the age
of 18, and even some of the younger ones as well. But basically anybody that drives a
vehicle or eats out is our client, which makes it sometimes advantageous and
sometimes a disadvantage. It is a
very wide market and perhaps to reach everybody, it is difficult to do
that.
7436 We will sometimes focus
on a particular station who works with us, as I said earlier, in a creative way
of going to market and allowing us to have opportunities so we can get there
with maybe less cost to what we might be spending on larger stations, et
cetera.
7437 We find the independent
stations are more willing to work with us on putting promotions together,
whether it be on added value through the station itself or helping us support
community charities in the marketplace.
7438 So we look for
something outside the box in regard to what they can do for
us.
7439 The audience, yes, our
demographics we like to go from 18 to 55, but we are open to the younger
generation as well. We understand
that that is the growth of our company, so if we can work with the younger
people who eventually will be coming into the marketplace, buying tires or
eating at restaurants.
7440 THE CHAIRPERSON: Star‑FM, as you are aware, is aiming at
an older demographic, which is 45‑plus.
With the type of service they are looking at, they will really be
delivering to that type of an audience.
7441 Are there still
opportunities for you in that population segment?
7442 MR. BLASKIN: Absolutely. There is a lot of us ‑‑ and I am
certainly over that age group. I
still do a lot of driving and eating out a lot, but it is also that we do a lot
of branding. That is certainly one
of the ways we go to market very aggressively.
7443 The fact that we can
have the older generation, one, coming to us and then referring their experience
to their sons, daughters, nephews, family members, of who and what we
are.
7444 So it is a
branding. We do a lot of branding
as well as traffic‑driven, but mostly branding.
7445 So we will focus more
so on we believe everybody out there is our audience. We just need to find a way to get to
them as an entrepreneur, as reasonably priced as we possibly
can.
7446 That is what we find is
a real asset to us as well, and we find independents are much flexible for us to
do that.
7447 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Blaskin.
7448 Mrs. del
Val.
7449 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Mr. Blaskin, would you
advertise in Airdrie?
7450 MR. BLASKIN: Would I advertise in
Airdrie?
7451 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Yes.
7452 MR. BLASKIN: Absolutely.
7453 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank
you.
7454 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7455 MR. BLASKIN: Thank you very much, and I apologize
that I have to leave early.
7456 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary.
7457 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7458 I would now call on Mr.
Willms of CADME to make his presentation.
7459 You will have ten
minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7460 MR. WILLMS: Good morning and thank you for this
opportunity.
7461 I will be speaking on
behalf of the strength of the Canadian Talent Development component of this
application.
7462 A little bit of
background about myself.
7463 I am a high school
music teacher. I teach in a large
high school music program in the city of Calgary, a vibrant performance‑based
program. I am also the
Vice‑President of the Alberta International Band Festival. I am also the artistic director for a
community music organization called Westwinds and I am the President of
CADME.
7464 So what is
CADME?
7465 CADME is a
not‑for‑profit society, registered under the Societies Act in the province of
Alberta. Our charity status with
the federal government is pending, but the papers have been
filed.
7466 This organization was
created three years ago by a collective of junior and senior high school music
teachers with the express purpose of supporting school music programs in a
number of ways.
7467 As per the Societies
Act, our entire board of seven are elected annually by our members, most of whom
are music teachers in the Calgary region.
When I say "Calgary region", we are basically Olds to High River and
Cochrane to Strathmore is where most of our members come from. So it is not exclusively the city of
Calgary; it is the Calgary area.
7468 Our board members are
elected and none of us receive any kind of remuneration for this
work.
7469 We support or music
programs in a number of ways.
7470 We provide a mentoring
program for young teachers. We
advocate for school music programs and important relevant issues that affect
them. We work on projects and
partnerships with other organizations, such as the Alberta Band Association,
Alberta Choral Federation. We are
in partnership with the Cantos Music Foundation in Calgary, and numerous
others.
7471 We operate currently a
program called The Jazz in Schools Program with support from California 103,
formerly The Breeze operated by Newcap in Calgary.
7472 Over the last number of
years CADME has established itself as a leader in music education in
Calgary. A great example is the
Jazz in Schools Program we spoke of, which really has had a profound impact in
almost all the high schools in the city, literally transforming a number of
these programs.
7473 It has been our intent,
in conjunction with Star‑FM, to create a new program which would be specific to
the support of our concert band and choir programs in schools within the city of
Calgary.
7474 Star‑FM will be
committing about a quarter of a million dollars over the next seven years to
this endeavour.
7475 With our experience we
have developed a process in order to maximize the effective use of those
funds. It is basically on how we
run the Jazz in Schools Program.
Through that process we do have an application component that allows for
teachers to identify needs very specific to their program and apply for project
funding to assist in meeting those needs.
7476 We have criteria for
applicants to define what is acceptable and what is not.
7477 We have developed an
objective method for deciding which applications to approve and which to
deny.
7478 We have a system in
place to assist teachers who need help in preparing their applications and also
in executing their plans.
7479 We have a monitoring
and reporting process that ensures that all funds are spent responsibly and in
accordance with the approved project.
And we maintain those records permanently.
7480 Our structure as an
organization from its inception has required us to direct 100 percent of any
funds received from either corporate, private or any other kind of donor sponsor
to the direct benefit of music programs and the students enrolled in
them.
7481 Any and all
administrative costs that we incur as a society are covered through our
membership fees. In fact, those
fees also generate extra funds that we put into our programming and to support
of schools.
7482 In order to make
maximum use of funds that are available, we regularly partner with other
organizations in collaborative ventures.
We work, as I said before, with the ABA. We have worked with the Calgary Jazz
Society and a number of others in order to make the dollars that we have access
to go furthest.
7483 Included in that, some
of our criteria for funding include incentives and encouragement for
collaborative efforts between multiple schools and programs, as well as funding
from other sources.
7484 In addition to the
obvious benefit to the school programs of another program to support their
in‑class endeavours, the format of this station also includes a Sunday kids'
program that will also be a great venue to showcase what is going on in our
school programs and to raise the profile of those programs through better
awareness in our community.
7485 For those reasons, I
fully support the application for Star‑FM.
And that's it.
7486 Thank you very
much. I appreciate your
time.
7487 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7488 Madam
Secretary.
7489 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on the next intervenor,
which is Keystone Music.
7490 Could you please
identify yourself and spell your name for the court reporter so that we have
your proper name on the transcript.
7491 Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
7492 MR. ROVERS: Thank you.
7493 Good morning, Mr.
Chairman and Commissioners. My name
is Mark Rovers, M‑a‑r‑k R‑o‑v‑e‑r‑s.
I am the Director of Finance of Keystone
Music.
7494 This is Mr. Bryan
Taylor, B‑r‑y‑a‑n T‑a‑y‑l‑o‑r. He
is the Director of Events and Programming for Keystone
Music.
7495 I will give a very
brief overview as to who and what we are and then I will turn the floor over to
Bryan to outline why we support the Star‑FM application.
7496 Very briefly, Keystone
Music is a Calgary‑based, Calgary‑owned concert promotion company. We promote live music events primarily
in Calgary, more secondarily in Alberta, western Canada, and
nationally.
7497 Calgary is our core
market and in that core market we offer different types of concerts, primarily
to an age 30‑and‑over crowd. We
have an acoustic series, which is run in a downtown based church that seats
about 800 people, and again very tailored to a Soft Rock type format or soft
listener type format.
7498 We have a dance party
series, which is essentially large dinner‑dance type environments seating up to
1,600 people.
7499 We run a series of
concerts at the major concert venues, the 2,500‑seat
venues.
7500 We do a multitude of
corporate events, private corporate events and outdoor
events.
7501 In addition, many of
our events are linked to the charity component. For instance, we have a very large dance
party happening next month here in Calgary and a couple of dollars from each
ticket is being donated to music therapy.
7502 We are strong believers
in being obviously financially viable, as we are a private corporation, in
providing entertainment value to our customers and in giving back to the
community.
7503 These are values you
see very strongly associated with Star‑FM as well.
7504 As far as artists, we
promote a lot of Canadian talent.
Canadian talent ranges from small local bands that we would use as
openers in our larger concerts to larger Canadian names such as Colin Linden and
k.d.lang.
7505 We also have a lot of
other popular artists, such as Lyle Lovett, and we do a fair amount of ethnic
programming as well.
7506 That is a very brief
overview as to who we are.
Obviously as concert promoters, we partner extensively with various
media, including the radio stations.
We do a lot of advertising and try to really find and create unique types
of events, to really be a difference to attract the consumer's spending
dollar.
7507 With that very brief
overview, I am going to turn the floor over to Bryan Taylor to explain why we
support this particular application.
7508 MR. TAYLOR: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and
Commissioners. Welcome to
Calgary.
7509 As Mark said, we are a
Calgary‑based company. We are the
biggest promoter of original music performed by solo artists and musical groups
in the Calgary market and the Alberta market.
7510 We focus a major part
of our efforts on Alberta and Canadian talent, and quite frankly our type of
music is underserved as far as the radio format to work with in the Alberta
market, and especially Calgary.
7511 We do k.d.lang
shows. We have been working
with her for years. We will be
doing her next tour. Right now in
the Calgary market, if I was to walk out and call all the radio stations in
Calgary, I can't find a station in this market that plays her regularly and
significantly.
7512 She has a new album
coming out in April and the next tour will be in the fall. So as a promoter we are already trying
to figure out ways to publicize this wonderful Canadian artist without dollars
at radio, because right now there isn't a format that plays her on a regular
basis.
7513 As music promoters and
part of my background is in artist management. I lived in Nashville for five years and
managed Emmylou Harris. One of the
most exciting parts of what I see with this Star‑FM application are the funds
and the commitments they are looking to make to local and Canadian
talent.
7514 I find it very exciting
that they are actually going to spend hard dollars to help develop talent. It is a part of our industry that always
needs help and support.
7515 I look at this list of
what they are spending money on.
The Aboriginal Scholarship Program to me is very exciting as one of the
artists I managed in years past was an Aboriginal artist named Laura
Vinson. I can tell you again from
experience there is not a commercial radio station in Alberta that consistently
plays aboriginal music.
7516 It is a large part of
our culture. You have the
Aboriginal Achievement Awards that I believe CBC broadcasts every year. And I find it rather odd and unfortunate
that no commercial radio station in this market significantly plays aboriginal
artists. It is something that
should be happening.
7517 I also find it very
exciting that Star‑FM is going to be writing actual cheques to artists to come
and perform Calgary‑based events and festivals. That way the money goes right into the
artist's pocket.
7518 I am so tied to
artists, and have been all my career, that seeing the money go directly to
artists so that they can use that money to develop their careers to me is very
significant.
7519 To me a very important
part of what the Star‑FM application is, as well, is all of these gentlemen live
in the market. As a promoter I get
to see many music chains or radio chains operate in this market. Quite frankly, a lot of the decisions
are made in other areas of the country on what they do. I find them very slow and not very
responsive to local marketing and programming needs.
7520 In conclusion, I would
just like to say that from what I have heard here today so far and from what my
research has led me to believe and understand from all these other applications,
the Star‑FM far and away has the strongest commitment to local and
Canadian‑based talent in terms of programming and in terms of hard
dollars.
7521 Thank you very
much.
7522 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7523 Madam
Secretary.
7524 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Mr. Williamson to
present his intervention.
7525 You have ten minutes
for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7526 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you very
much.
7527 My name is Lanny
Williamson. I am an old time radio
guy and now I'm a crusty old music guy.
I am here to support the talent part, which to me is really
important.
7528 I started out in radio
in the late 1950s at CHUC Radio in Cobourg, moved on to CHUM in Toronto, then to
CHFI. After that I spent a few
years in London, England, working with EMI, Phillips, places like that. I opened up my own studio in Toronto,
called Chelsea Sound. In 1972 I
moved to the United States, working in New York, Nashville, Miami and 14 years
in Los Angeles building a studio called CanAm Recorders.
7529 Some of my clients were
Burt Reynolds, Clint Eastwood, Toto, Fleetwood Mac. I worked on "Apocalypse Now" for two and
a half years; Oscar Peterson, Black Sabbath.
7530 That's the crusty
part.
7531 I guess the real reason
I am here is because of the fact that Star has really gone the distance in
allowing somebody from the industry to decide or to create a method of spending
the $2 million that they have, and that is the big
difference.
7532 In my experience over
the years, most radio stations have had a lot of money to spend on Canadian
talent and promotion and it tended to go into promoting and marketing the
station as opposed to going into the artists themselves.
7533 Battle of the Bands
contests only made the stations look better. The guy that won the free guitar from
winning the Battle of the Bands might never be in the
business.
7534 We are seeing a whole
different approach from Star‑FM to administrating this money and being sure that
it goes the right way to the right people.
7535 Vince brought me
onboard because his vision for the station really was very strong. The music style has been totally
abandoned in this marketplace and the way that they are going to be handling
putting the money back into the market is so much more
intelligent.
7536 The radio industry
feeds on the talent but seldom replenishes that feeding frenzy. This station is going to be the one that
actually does something with the return to the industry.
7537 If we can through the
next seven years find another k.d.lang or Phil Collins or somebody in the
marketplace that would be bringing back more focus to us, that would be a
winning situation for all of us.
7538 I would be glad to take
questions from anybody. This is my
expertise.
7539 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Langford.
7540 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I do have a question for
you.
7541 I wonder ‑‑ and I
think we have played with this issue over the last few
days.
7542 Depending on how you
look at the market, there is either an opportunity or a bad history and maybe
you can help us with it.
7543 Obviously if you just
walk in and you look at it out of context, you say to yourself there is an
opportunity here. There is this
whole demographic you have just been speaking about and they are not being
served. They have lots of money and
they've got needs. So let's serve
them.
7544 The other side of the
coin may be why did all these people abandon this demographic? Maybe you just can't make a buck at
it.
7545 Can you give me some
guidance as to how we should be looking at the phenomena of all this format
change in Calgary?
7546 MR. WILLIAMSON: I don't think it is much different than
my side of the business when we are working with various other recording
acts. It seems to be more sensible
to run after the most popular thing at the time.
7547 In the case of music,
it's Hip Hop and it's Rock and Roll and it's Heavy Metal. Those are the things that people kind of
screen towards. In the meantime,
there has been a huge precedent set.
There is 50, 60 years of music that has a strong foundation and that
music is kind of pushed aside over this time.
7548 Unfortunately, our
music, the music that has been so successful in the past, is not at the
forefront. And developing new
artists like Diana Krall and Michael Buble might seem to be not a big deal, but
they sell a lot of records. They
entertain a lot of people and they make a lot of people
happy.
7549 I don't think there is
anything wrong with working with a market that isn't so popular. It's big. It's appreciated. And it has tremendous
merit.
7550 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So the opportunity is
there. It is just that somebody has
to mine it.
7551 MR. WILLIAMSON: Nobody does it.
7552 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Yes.
7553 Can I ask a
question ‑‑ and I've lost total control of the agenda here ‑‑ to the
two gentlemen in the middle who do event planning.
7554 Give me a name. Taylor, isn't it?
7555 What about the market
for Folk music here in Calgary? You
have this huge Folk Festival. We
have a number of applicants who seem to be nibbling. Some want to take a big bite and some
want to take small bites.
7556 There seems to be
interest in Folk.
7557 From your experience as
event planners, I guess I could categorize you ‑‑
7558 MR. TAYLOR: Concert promoters.
7559 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank
you.
7560 Is that market there or
is it just a kind of market that kind of exists underground with a kind of happy
bunch of fans and kind of goes under its own steam?
7561 MR. TAYLOR: It's a very good market. It might be a bit of a narrow market,
but the fans are very committed.
7562 The concert series that
Mr. Rovers referred to we run at Knox United Church, which is just a couple of
blocks from here, is geared right at the Folk market.
7563 A large segment of the
Folk music audience are females over 30, 35 years old, which I believe is the
target market for this application.
7564 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you very
much.
7565 Those are my questions,
Mr. Chair.
7566 THE CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, thank you very
much.
7567 We will take a
15‑minute break. So we will be back
at a quarter to 11:00.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing
at 1030 / Suspension à 1030
‑‑‑ Upon resuming
at 1100 / Reprise à 1100
7568 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, please.
7569 Madam
Secretary.
7570 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7571 We would now call on
the next three appearing intervenors.
7572 For the record, I would
like to indicate that Mr. Eric Friedenberg, which is intervention 741, will not
be appearing.
7573 Therefore, I would call
on Mr. Willie Connell, Dave Jones and Colin Jackson.
7574 Starting with Mr.
Willie Connell, you will have ten minutes for your
presentation.
7575 MR. NIKEL: David Jones is not here. It is John Nikel.
7576 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
INTERVENTION
7577 MR. CONNELL: Good morning.
7578 Mr. Chairman, Members
of the Commission, thank you for allowing me to speak before
you.
7579 My name is Willie
Connell. I am the Executive
Director of the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival.
7580 I have been in music
and music education all my life. I
am a third generation music teacher.
I taught for 12 years at the high school music level and I was a music
supervisor for five years.
7581 During my education
tenure, I was seconded by the Department of Education in Manitoba to help
implement and develop the new music curriculum for the junior high and high
school music programs.
7582 I have been involved in
the retail music industry. I have
been involved in the wholesale music industry.
7583 I am here to support
the Pattison application for an FM licence.
7584 I would like to start
on a personal note, and that is that I support the Soft Vocal
format.
7585 Although I don't live
right in the city of Calgary any more, I do listen to the Calgary radio
stations. As I have sat here and I
have listened to comments about the stats and all that of radio, I'm sorry, I
know nothing about radio other than listening to it.
7586 I would love to turn on
my radio ‑‑ I think this microphone is causing problems, is it
not?
7587 Maybe I will stay back
a little further.
7588 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You could certainly move
over to another chair, if you like.
7589 MR. CONNELL: All right.
7590 I would love to be able
to turn on my radio and hear melodies that I could sing along to. I would love to be able to turn on my
radio and hear lyrics that I understood and that made sense. I would love to turn on my radio and
hear music, not just rhythm.
7591 I support this format
because I think that is the kind of music that people my age want to hear, and I
would strongly suggest that people in Calgary ‑‑ because we are a large
part of the demographics of this city, people around my age ‑‑ this is the
kind of music we want to hear on the radio.
7592 Although I support this
format, the main reason for my appearance before you this morning is to
emphasize the importance of the Save the Music Foundation, which is an integral
part of this application.
7593 Let us be quite
clear. This is not just a project
that satisfies the requirements of this application. This foundation, which will develop
Canadian talent, goes far and beyond that.
7594 The Save the Music
Foundation has the potential to change music and music education in our
provinces. By supporting music
education, you will improve the quality and the volume of Canadian talent. But as you also hear, improving music
programs will do much more.
7595 The purpose of this
foundation is not to provide funds to operate music programs. That is the responsibility of our
provincial governments. Hopefully,
they will see fit to increase funding to education in our
provinces.
7596 The Save the Music
Foundation will enhance and enrich music programs by supporting new initiatives
for teachers and students, by developing new learning and performance programs
and by instituting new performance opportunities to help develop Canadian
talent.
7597 All of these
initiatives will of course meet the Commission's criteria for the development of
Canadian talent.
7598 The Save the Music
Foundation will operate at arm's length from the Pattison Broadcast Group, with
a board of directors in conjunction with the Canadian Rocky Mountain
Festival. This board of directors
will at all times be cognizant of the Commission's criteria to operate the
foundation within the rules of the CRTC.
7599 The Canadian Rocky
Mountain Festival, now in its 15th year, takes place annually in Banff. This festival is one of the most
respected and prestigious festivals in Canada. The festival will be an integral part of
the Save the Music Foundation and will give the foundation instant credibility
and acceptance by music programs across western
Canada.
7600 The foundation will
utilize and enhance many of the programs presently offered by the festival,
programs such as "TPDP", which is a mentoring program; clinics and performance
programs for students; and unique concert opportunities for performing
groups.
7601 The financial support
of the foundation will enable us to expand these programs right across both
provinces, as well as add new initiatives for travel, performance and new
programs, such as The Best of the West.
7602 The Canadian Rocky
Mountain Festival has a proven track record. Students who have attended the festival
have gone on to a variety of performance careers, from performing with Maynard
Ferguson's big band to Stella Salido, who performed on Broadway in the
production of "Les Miserables" for two years; from Linda Brown, who is a local
permanent member of the Calgary Philharmonic; to Russ Broom, who is Jan Arden's
guitar player; from Pat Beliveau touring with the Dorsey Big Band; to the Cherko
Brothers touring with Shania Twain.
7603 If you are serious
about developing Canadian talent long term, you must get to the grassroots. You must get to music programs. You must get to the
kids.
7604 The Save the Music
Foundation, in conjunction with the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival, already
has a lot of these components in place.
We have the administration. We have the programs. We have the philosophy. We have the
contacts.
7605 The foundation can hit
the road running, so to speak.
Right away we can start helping programs. We can start to develop Canadian talent
right across western Canada.
7606 The point I would like
to stress is how encompassing this foundation will be.
7607 The foundation has the
potential of working with 300,000 music students. If you want to develop Canadian talent,
I can think of no better way to do it than working with 300,000 music
kids.
7608 Also, the foundation
will be supporting all forms of music, both vocal and instrumental. Every genre of music will be affected,
from Pop to Rock, from Jazz to Classical, from Folk to
Country.
7609 Even though this
application is for a Soft Vocal format, the Save the Music Foundation will be
supporting all styles of music, which is in fact I think essential to the
survival of this industry.
7610 The importance of music
education is now well documented.
We know music students achieve higher SAT scores than non‑music
students. We know music students
receive more academic awards than non‑music students.
7611 Music students have the
lowest use of drugs and alcohol of anyone in the school.
7612 Music students also
have more self‑esteem than the majority of other students.
7613 Sixty‑seven percent of
music majors in university go into medicine. This is by far the highest percentage of
any faculty in universities.
7614 Last week I was reading
an article on the Silicon Valley and a sentence just popped right out at
me.
7615 I
quote:
"The
very best engineers and technical designers in the Silicon Valley industry are,
nearly without exception, musicians."
7616 By supporting music
programs, you will not only develop Canadian talent but you will help to develop
a strong society. These music kids
will become the leaders in every area of our future
society.
7617 It is no secret why
companies like Intel or IBM, Texas Instruments, Microsoft or even Nassau search
out kids with a music background.
7618 If some of the most
successful companies in North America who have nothing to do with music are
seeking out kids with music background, doesn't that tell us
something?
7619 I think it
does.
7620 The Save the Music
Foundation will be a living organization which will adjust and adapt to the
needs of young musicians. We will
develop new programs tailored to helping those young superstars. We will work in partnership with school
districts, community and church organizations, parents and
students.
7621 With your approval of
this foundation and if we do our job, my hope is that this foundation will be
around a lot longer than we will be around.
7622 When the Save the Music
Foundation starts to really take effect, what you will see is a growth of strong
music programs. As teachers
improve, programs will become more successful, which will in turn attract more
kids to music.
7623 With the help of the
foundation, we may even see 400,000 or 500,000 kids involved in music in our
provinces.
7624 As the pool of music
students grows, so too will the volume of Canadian
talent.
7625 Across North America
only 3 percent of music students become professional musicians. The other 97 percent of music students
may not be performers, but they will have a strong influence on this
industry. It is a documented fact
that music students listen to music 50 percent more than non‑music
students. Not only do they listen
to more music, they listen to a greater variety of music.
7626 It is these music
students that will listen to the radio more than anyone
else.
7627 With the support of the
Save the Music Foundation, not only will you see an increase in Canadian talent
but you will also see an increase in your listening public because these music
students will be there.
7628 Finally, it is
important to note music students listen to music for life. Music is the engine that drives the
radio broadcast industry. By
supporting this Pattison application and the development of this unbelievable
Save the Music Foundation, you are in essence guaranteeing your future
industry's survival.
7629 I have spoken about
improving music programs and developing Canadian talent. They are one and the
same.
7630 The Canadian Rocky
Mountain Festival is proud to be involved with this foundation. We have seen over the last 15 years what
happens when music programs are given that extra help. We have seen the results when talented
young Canadians are given the opportunity to perform.
7631 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me, Mr. Connell. If you could wrap up, your ten minutes
is up.
7632 MR. CONNELL: Yes, I will.
7633 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
7634 MR. CONNELL: I guess in wrapping up I get a little
excited here, and I apologize.
7635 I have been in music
all my life. I have seen
initiatives come and go. I have
never seen an initiative like this.
7636 I would like to
explain, but I guess I don't have time.
7637 This will work because
it has long‑term goals. It has
long‑term programs. It is supported
by a company that truly believes in improving music education and developing
Canadian talent.
7638 For the first time in
my 35 years that I have been in the business, a serious program has come from a
major Canadian company. Finally,
someone has come up to bat.
7639 As the old song says,
"I think things are going to get bigger."
7640 I just can't say how
much I am excited and how ‑‑ I just don't have the word for it; that the
potential is immense for what this program can do. This has never happened
before.
7641 Please don't let this
slip by.
7642 Thank
you.
7643 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Connell.
7644 We will hear the next
intervention.
7645 THE SECRETARY: The next intervention would be for Mr.
Colin Jackson.
7646 Either Mr. Jackson or
Mr. Nikel. Please identify
yourself, whichever one is going to go first.
7647 Mr. Nikel? Thank you. You have ten minutes for your
presentation.
INTERVENTION
7648 MR. NIKEL: My name is John Nikel and I am the
President of the Alberta International Band Festivals. I have brought you a program because
presently our festival is running at the University of Calgary, and we have over
8,000 young students participating, high school students and university
students.
7649 If you would like to
have a look at what music education does, I would gladly take you to the
university, if you have time, and to show you what is happening in the
trenches.
7650 I have been the Yamaha
distributor. I have been a retailer
all my life, but I have been the Yamaha distributor for band instruments in
Alberta. One thing, when I took on
the product line 40 years ago, that Yamaha taught me is that if you wish that
your customers play your instruments, you must teach them how to use them. This is the secret and this is, I don't
have to tell you, Yamaha's secret around the world: education comes
first.
7651 The festival that I
represent has a festival of 7,000 students in Edmonton, so we are over 15,000 to
16,000 of us. The Edmonton festival
will start in the middle of March.
7652 And the participation
is still growing.
7653 I am speaking in
support of application No. 6, the Pattison Broadcast Group, of
course.
7654 Why support music
education? Students learn some
basic fundamentals. Really basic
has to be understood. They get
together with other band members. A
band starts together and a band finishes together. They learn discipline. They watch other players. They learn how to listen. And they become usually much better math
students, because they have to count.
7655 Those are the basics
that have to be understood why the primary music education is so
important.
7656 The second part is if
we want symphonies, theatres, music productions, concerts and so on to have an
audience, you have to educate the audience. You have to help and we have to. Then they know why they buy concert
tickets and why they go to a concert: because they have learned and they know
who the composers are, who the musicians are, who the artists
are.
7657 The school boards
unfortunately, although we cannot take away, will provide for every school that
desires a building, a teacher and some instruments. But what they don't do is what a music
program, every small or large, requires, which is they need performance venues,
festivals like this, festivals like the Rocky Mountain
Festival.
7658 They have to exchange
with other bands. They have to go
from one province to the other and see what is happening in the other
provinces. They have to
travel.
7659 And of course some
instruments. But the
instruments ‑‑ this is all secondary, because if we do the first thing and
start teaching, the parents and everybody else comes in and
helps.
7660 We also notice in our
festival ‑‑ there is a whole page of it ‑‑ that adults are starting to
play more and more. Adults are
buying more instruments and adults come into community bands. Saturday and Sundays, always our
community Sunday, and we have community bands from British Columbia, from the
United States. They sometimes
travel hours and hours on a bus just to come to the festival to play because
they want a performing venue.
7661 I interject a little
story because you might be interested in it.
7662 For three years we had
a young lady come to our festival from Consort, Alberta, and her name was Kathy
Lang. She performed right here in
Calgary at our festival at least three times. After the third year, now Senator Tommy
Bangs, who was my jazz adjudicator at that time, said, "This will be a
star."
7663 He took her under his
wings and the Alberta Foundation for the Arts cut her first record. And today we have a
star.
7664 But funds are required
to finance these educational activities.
Therefore, I welcome so much the Pattison Broadcast proposal to assist
monetary in B.C. and Alberta with the financing of some of the primary musical
education.
7665 You see, writing a
cheque is not always the issue. If
you as a sponsor and a radio station write a cheque and then you say "that's it,
I have done my share", you only have done half of it. You have to involve your own
people. You have to involve your
own staff. You have to volunteer
your announcers for concerts, to be master of ceremonies, and to
interact.
7666 I have noticed ‑‑
and there are some limited stations that do it. I'm not saying that all stations
don't. But it is a very, very small
percentage.
7667 I could never
understand why the broadcast industry did not support, and today does not
support, more that primary music education we are speaking about. The product that they sell is music, and
I as a retailer, that is what I sell.
So the radio station sells music.
7668 Well, how do you think
music is being created? By
education and by buying some instruments and having some good instruments
played. Otherwise, nothing
happens.
7669 Therefore, I believe
that the Save the Music Education is a very, very timely proposal and should be
supported.
7670 This proposal will help
to produce and play more Canadian music, and we must support the Pattison Group
and the proposal for Save the Music Foundation.
7671 Furthermore, I believe
that the commitment of the Pattison Group is very honest and the group has the
finances to back such a program over the next few years.
7672 Many young Canadians
will be very grateful to you if you approve the Pattison application, and this
could become the formula and example for other broadcasters to join and help
Canada's youth.
7673 Thank
you.
7674 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7675 Madam
Secretary.
7676 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7677 I would now call on Mr.
Colin Jackson to make his presentation.
7678 You have ten minutes to
do so. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
7679 MR. JACKSON: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, my name
is Colin Jackson.
7680 I am the President of
the EPCOR Centre for the Performing Arts here in Calgary, and in that role I am
deeply involved and passionate about the development of the creative capacity
within all Calgarians, all southern Albertans, all
Albertans.
7681 I am not going to
comment on the format because Willie pled with you that you give him a format in
which there are lyrics along with which he could sing. It is beyond your power to give me a
format with lyrics along with which I could sing. That would depend upon divine
intervention. I know the Commission
is very powerful and very important but, with respect, I would suggest that
turning me into a singer is beyond even your capacity. So I won't go
there.
7682 I will go to four
points, one of them that has been touched upon ‑‑ not touched upon but
spoken to with great eloquence by my colleagues, which is how remarkably
thoughtful the community contribution is that the Pattison Group is
proposing.
7683 They are talking about
working in a long horizon with organizations whose passion ‑‑ and my
goodness, you can hear the passion.
These guys are just goofy for music and for education, and it's true, I
am here to testify. I am not part
of their organization. I observe
their organization and they are true hearts and true spirits. They've got rhythm and they can
sing. But
anyway...
7684 The thoughtfulness is
that they are working with organizations of this kind who are deeply involved in
the up in students becoming ever more skilled and those with the capability to
be professional, becoming professional.
But they are also interested in the out in getting ever more young people
involved in the making of music, in learning that divine gift that everybody
has ‑‑ except perhaps me ‑‑ of being able to express themselves
through those languages, through rhythm and
form.
7685 This notion of out, of
casting as broad a net as possible, of encouraging people by cross‑connecting
them through festivals, by giving them the kind of expert leadership that can
occur in a festival, by giving their teachers the kind of confidence that comes
from seeing that they are not the only lonely soul believing in this ‑‑
there is in fact a movement; there is in fact a depth of care about
music.
7686 So a very thoughtful,
very interesting contribution back to the community.
7687 Three other reasons, a
little more directly self‑interested.
7688 There is mention in the
application of a fulltime arts and culture editor. That could be a very exciting addition
to the Calgary and southern Alberta airwaves. One would expect that editor would be
involved in promotion, and that's good.
But it may be that that editor will also go into analysis and
research. If that is the case, that
would be extremely helpful: another
point at which thinking is undertaken and then distributed about the growing and
changing nature of arts and culture in our
communities.
7689 A third point. As a western Canadian, I am very
appreciative of a notion that this may be a western‑based operation. And underneath that the notion of
diversity of ownership; that this is a corporation that does have some media
interest but not in large markets.
7690 Therefore, there is a
diversity of ownership within Calgary that would come through this
application.
7691 And the fourth ‑‑
and this is a little abstract. But
I kind of find it attractive that this application would be into our larger city
based upon a network of existing operations in smaller cities; in Medicine Hat
and other places.
7692 I don't know the inner
workings of the corporation and to what extent that truth would feed this
station. But it is possible that
this application would allow a greater inflow of understanding, of world view,
of point of view from some of those smaller centres in Alberta who now feel very
much that they are the places talked to from the heights of Calgary and Edmonton
as opposed to places that are in a conversation with Calgary and
Edmonton.
7693 So four
reasons.
7694 But to go back to the
original, I have great confidence in the Rocky Mountain Music Festival. I have seen their work. They are true hearts. They are true spirits. And this is a thoughtful way for this
corporation to be involved in our community.
7695 Thank you so
much.
7696 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7697 Mrs. del
Val.
7698 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: I just want to thank you for
the intervention. I found it very
helpful.
7699 And Mr. Connell, I
found that the statistics that you gave were most interesting; very
helpful.
7700 Thank
you.
7701 THE CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, thank you very much. You have made very convincing
interventions. We may not have
questions to ask because you said it all.
7702 Thank
you.
7703 MR. JACKSON: Perfect.
7704 MR. CONNELL: Thank you.
7705 MR. NIKEL: Thank you.
7706 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary.
7707 THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
7708 We will now proceed
with the next intervenor. I would
call on Mr. Ken Regan of the CKUA Radio Network, if you would please come to the
front.
7709 Mr. Regan provided a
copy of his presentation earlier.
‑‑‑
Pause
7710 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Regan, you will have ten minutes for
your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7711 MR. REGAN: Thank you.
7712 Mr. Chairman and
Commissioners, thank you very much for this opportunity.
7713 Because CKUA has been
asked to respond to both of our interventions during this segment, we would like
to begin with the intervention to application 2005‑0893‑9 filed by Mr. Yadwinder
Sivia.
7714 Before I begin, though,
I would like to introduce the gentlemen who accompanied me
here.
7715 On my right, your left,
is Mr. Kodeep Singh Heer(ph), who is the President of Sur Sangam
Radio.
7716 On my left, and your
right, is Mr. Gursheran Singh Butar(ph) of Guldasta
Broadcasting.
7717 These gentlemen are
partners of CKUA Radio in our SCMO operations and this
intervention.
7718 For the record, Sur
Sangam Radio produces east Asian community programming in Calgary using CKUA's
93.7 FM SCMO frequency.
7719 First, CKUA and our
SCMO partners were a bit surprised following the original call for application
in CRTC 2005‑49, Appendix A as attached.
We saw that the applicant's application for an ethnic FM licence was to
be considered and we were surprised, because the original public notice did not
specifically reference any call for an ethnic licence.
7720 That has frequently
been the case previously; that there would be a specific all for ethnic
licences.
7721 Frankly, we
respectfully believe that that should have been the case.
7722 In Broadcasting Public
Notice CRTC 2004‑55, attached there as Appendix B, the Commission issued a call
for applications in Vancouver and clearly stated a call for an ethnic
licence.
7723 Similarly, in
Broadcasting Public Notice CRTC 2001‑39, Appendix C that you have there, the
Commission again issued a call for applications in Toronto and again
specifically referenced a call for ethnic licence
applicants.
7724 We appreciate the
responsibility for each of us to fully understand the nature of public notices
from the Commission, but we would hope as well that the Commission can
appreciate that had the specificity around calls for ethnic licences not been
past practice, Radio Sur Sangam might better have anticipated an application
that could have direct or potentially detrimental impact on its own existing
services and might at least have considered filing application for such a
licence.
7725 As it was, we were
admittedly and rightly or wrongly caught somewhat off guard by the consideration
of an FM ethnic broadcast licence.
7726 We would suggest that
if the Commission believes that additional ethnic services might be warranted in
Calgary, it would not be inappropriate to defer consideration of the current
ethnic licence application and issue a separate and specific call for ethnic
broadcast licences for Calgary.
7727 In fairness to the
current applicant and to prevent any further expense or inconvenience on their
part, we believe they should be given the option to be considered to have
already submitted or to resubmit, if they choose. But at least other interested parties
would have a full and clear opportunity to be considered as
well.
7728 Having said that, CKUA
and our partners in the SCMO undertaking known as Radio Sur Sangam do not
believe that there is such a need for additional ethnic services in
Calgary.
7729 Radio Sur Sangam is
serving the community well, despite limitations which might exist with SCMO
multiplex technology. Evidence of
their service, their exemplary service, and the appreciation of it within
Calgary is provided by a sampling of recent letters of support from the
community and from visitors and officials who participated with Radio Sur Sangam
in its efforts, in Appendix D.
7730 Further evidence of the
support for Radio Sur Sangam and its services is seen in the results of Radio
Sur Sangam's fund raising efforts on behalf of its
community.
7731 In the past two years
alone, Radio Sur Sangam has raised almost half a million dollars for
humanitarian and other community causes.
In five hours in November 2004, Radio Sur Sangam raised $321,000 for
Alberta Children's Hospital.
7732 In January 2005, Radio
Sur Sangam raised over $50,000 for Canadian Red Cross tsunami
relief.
7733 In October of that
year, they raised another $50,000 for victims of the Pakistani earthquake and in
November of that year raised an additional $10,000 for earthquake
relief.
7734 The success of these
humanitarian efforts, despite the limitations of SCMO technology, speaks more
eloquently than my words to the respect and appreciation which Calgary's ethnic
community and its broader community have for Radio Sur
Sangam.
7735 The community would not
respond to such an extent or in such a manner, no matter how worthy the cause,
if they did not have confidence in and respect for this service and those who
represent it.
7736 In addition to
that ‑‑ and I won't belabour the issue here ‑‑ Radio Sur Sangam's
ownership and staff are residents of this community. They live here. Their children go to school here. They shop here. This is their community. Their interest is driven not by
commercial interests solely. It is
driven by community service.
Undoubtedly they are trying to build a commercial success, but in doing
so they are doing it in an effort to ensure viability. They live here and they are committed to
this community.
7737 Another example of this
is the free airtime that Radio Sur Sangam offers to promote the causes, events
and activities of many non‑profit and charitable organizations in Calgary, its
outstanding local community support, and is provided again because the owners
and the operators of Radio Sur Sangam live in the community and have a stake in
making it a better place.
7738 We would submit that,
taken together, these facts illustrate the ethnic community of Calgary is being
served well by Radio Sur Sangam, and we acknowledge the fine work of other
existing ethnic broadcasters in this community as well.
7739 We believe that
combined with these other existing services and based on the evidence and
arguments presented, there is no overriding need for a commercially licensed
ethnic broadcaster in Calgary, at least not at this time.
7740 In our original
intervention, CKUA and our partners indicated that entry of a new FM ethnic
broadcaster into Calgary would jeopardize existing ethnic services provided
through SCMO technology.
7741 In response,
representatives from Mr. Sivia, the applicant, pointed out that it has
never been the Commission's role to protect unlicensed or unregulated entities
from competition. They referenced
instances in Vancouver and Surrey, British Columbia, where the Commission
licensed two ethnic services despite the fact the market was being served by
SCMO channels.
7742 They referenced a
similar decision with respect to services in Montreal and
Toronto.
7743 Because the applicant
didn't indicate specifically which of the Commission's decisions were being
referenced, we can't be sure which decision to respond to. But we will say
this.
7744 In CRTC Decision
2005‑338 concerning an application for an AM ethnic broadcast licence in
Vancouver, and in CRTC Decision 2003‑115 concerning an application for an FM
ethnic broadcast licence in Toronto, licences were granted to persons who had
for years operated SCMO services in those regions and on behalf of their
communities.
7745 We have reference
material there in Appendix F.
7746 We believe it is also
noteworthy that in each of the above‑referenced decisions the Commission
ultimately chose to award new ethnic licences to SCMO
providers.
7747 CKUA firmly believes
Calgary's ethnic community is being well served by the services currently in
existence. We don't quarrel with
others' opinions to the contrary; we simply differ.
7748 CKUA and our SCMO
partners who serve this community believe that in these decisions, as in its
past decisions, the Commission wishes to apply equanimity and fairness to the
process. We believe it is possible
to do that through the following.
7749 Allow Radio Sur Sangam
and other existing ethnic broadcasters in Calgary time to build upon their
record with and on behalf of the ethnic community before issuing any call for
new ethnic licences.
7750 Second, defer any
consideration or any further consideration of application 0893‑9 until a
separate and specific call for ethnic broadcast licences is deemed necessary or
appropriate.
7751 Mr. Chairman, that is
our response on the first intervention.
7752 I hope that I can speak
to the second one.
7753 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. If I may, I don't know if you were here
when Newcap appeared. They did
mention that they triggered the call by filing during the year 2004 for the
Calgary market.
7754 Obviously when the
Commission issued its call for application, they issued a call for commercial
radio in the market. I have to say
that the application filed by Yadwinder Sivia came to the Commission in response
to that call.
7755 The Commission has
also, as you know, received up to 16 ‑‑ not 16, but ten applications
altogether.
7756 Your SCMO partners
could have had filed at the same time even if there was no mention that it was
for ethnic, like any French broadcaster could have done it. I didn't see any. But they could have done it on the same
occasion. It is an open
process.
7757 We will take into
consideration the remarks that you just made, and they will be part of our
deliberations.
7758 But the call for
applications was as open as it can.
7759 We will now hear you
for your second intervention.
7760 MR. REGAN: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
7761 With respect to the
Rawlco Radio intervention, I have to confess that I am a little conflicted about
this, so I hope you will bear with me.
7762 I am conflicted because
when CKUA filed our original intervention, we intervened against Rawlco because
it seemed to represent the greatest potential threat to CKUA should its licence
application be approved.
7763 The Folk and Roots
content, the artists' playlist, which mirrors much of CKUA's Folk and Roots
playlist, and the somewhat expanded annotation format, are all elements
reflective at least of CKUA Radio programming.
7764 In preparing for this
opportunity to speak to you, I again realized that the fact is Rawlco is no more
and no less a threat to CKUA than any of the applications before
you.
7765 The real threat remains
a regulatory framework that handicaps community‑based broadcasters like CKUA and
really precludes us from competing on an equal footing.
7766 Audience fragmentation
is a product of competition and it is a reality we all face as
broadcasters.
7767 CKUA, like our
colleagues in this room, tries to work harder, work smarter, provide a better,
more desirable product than our competitors in order to counter the potential
erosion of audience that is possible with every new licensee in a market or
every new technological innovation that gives consumers an alternative option to
radio.
7768 We have to remember
that no matter how many different ways we slice the pie and no matter how many
different names we give each piece of the pie, there is still only one pie, and
we are all trying to get a piece of it.
7769 At CKUA we believe
absolutely that we have a product that can compete and we are prepared to face
any challenge providing the playing field is level. But it is not and here's
why.
7770 At CKUA we face all of
the same competitive pressures that each of my colleagues here faces: increased
competition, audience fragmentation, technological change, rising costs. That is not a problem for us. We must also compete for audience, the
same way my colleagues here must do so.
And that is not a problem either.
That's just appropriate.
7771 The problem is that
while CKUA has to meet these challenges and while CKUA must compete for the same
audiences as each of my colleagues here, we and other community and campus
broadcasters have to do so essentially with one hand tied behind our
backs.
7772 Unlike my colleagues in
private radio, CKUA and other community and campus stations are restricted in
how much advertising we can sell.
So even if we wanted to compete head‑to‑head with private broadcasters on
that basis, we could not.
7773 And I am not saying
that we necessarily want to. The
Commission itself has indicated that more commercial advertising is not the
salvation for community broadcasting in Canada.
7774 Moreover, unlike the
tax‑funded CBC, CKUA receives no government subsidy of any kind, yet we still
have to compete with a CBC that increasingly makes incursions into areas of
niche broadcasting that have been the mainstay and forte of community and campus
radio.
7775 For example, the recent
insertion of music programming into CBC Radio One's prime time daytime
schedule. The programming is not
unlike something that might be heard on community or campus radio and is a far
cry from the traditional information programming that should be the mandate for
the publicly funded but increasingly private operating
broadcaster.
7776 Adding severe insult to
injury is the fact that CBC now uses its national network, my tax dollars and
those of my colleagues here today, as a national platform to promote its
American satellite partner, a partner that is in direct competition with CKUA
and all other private campus and community broadcasters in
Canada.
7777 This is not only
patently unfair; it is frankly outrageous.
7778 Worse still, it has the
potential to erode further and in particular the audiences for campus and
community radio whose niche programming product has been adopted by satellite
radio, commercialized and leveraged a hundred‑fold.
7779 I want to say right now
that neither I nor CKUA is seeking sympathy. What we are hoping for is understanding
of the reality facing community‑based broadcasters like CKUA and we are seeking
constructive change.
7780 The Broadcasting Act
itself stipulates that community broadcasting is one of the fundamental
components of broadcasting in this country.
7781 I hope you will forgive
me for shifting the focus of the discussion a little bit from what you thought
it might have been, but as I pointed out earlier the critical issue for
CKUA ‑‑ and I think for other community and campus broadcasters ‑‑ is
not simply Rawlco.
7782 The point here is that
at one time campus and community broadcasters had market potential because they
were incorporating, developing and exploiting formats and artists, traditional
commercial broadcasters and the CBC astute. That is no longer the
case.
7783 The fact that Rawlco is
seeking a second licence to address a niche market potential, the advent of
niche‑driven satellite radio, the move by CBC to add niche music programming to
its prime time AM radio schedule, are evidence of the targeting of community
radio's traditional markets and the further erosion and fragmentation taking
place within that market.
7784 The campus and
community radio sector is and should be prepared to compete with any other
broadcaster in this country, or on this planet for that matter. If we are diligent, fiscally
responsible, innovative and respectful and true to our audiences, we will not
only compete, we can thrive.
7785 But we can't continue
to be forced to compete while handicapped by the regulatory framework that
exists today.
7786 The problem from CKUA's
perspective is that much of the erosion today is taking place specifically at
our expense. As we have pointed out
to the Commission on numerous occasions, because CKUA survives on voluntary
listener donations, not tax subsidy, erosion of audience represents a direct
threat to our viability and our sustainability.
7787 So even though we
frankly would prefer not to intervene when our friends at Rawlco or other
commercial broadcasters ‑‑ for whom we have great respect ‑‑ make
these applications, we have little choice because again, unlike the CBC, we
receive no direct government subsidy and unlike our friends in private
broadcasting, we are restricted as to how much advertising we can
sell.
7788 Still, we must compete
and we must preserve our audience because in most instances they are our primary
source of revenue.
7789 There is a
solution.
7790 CKUA would at this time
request once again that the Commission give strong consideration and support to
CKUA's call for establishment of a community radio fund to support non‑profit
broadcasters in this country.
7791 This fund could be
financed fully, not by taxpayers, but rather by diverting just some, a portion,
of the current surpluses created under Part II licensing fees paid by private
broadcasters. At least in this way
some of those monies would be reinvested in a sector of Canada's broadcasting
industry that needs it, and ideally, the remaining surpluses should
appropriately be returned to the broadcasters themselves.
7792 Alternatively, BDUs
(broadcast distribution undertakings) who now distribute radio signals,
including CKUA's on Shaw Cable, Star Choice, satellite, now Telus, who
distribute these as a value‑added incentive to their customers but pay no fee to
the originating broadcaster might be encouraged by the Commission or perhaps
even my colleagues here to contribute a portion of their revenues towards
supporting community radio in Canada.
7793 At the very least, if
American‑owned serious satellite radio is going to be supported and promoted by
our public broadcaster on the public airwaves while in direct competition with
both private and community broadcasters, the least they could do is support a
segment of Canada's broadcast industry, which, as I say, is already
disadvantaged.
7794 We are not asking for
handouts. As stated in previous
submissions, the community radio fund would only be accessed by non‑profit
broadcasters on a matching grant basis if the formula that we propose was
adopted, on a matching grant basis equivalent to what the broadcaster earned in
donations from its audience. This
system of funding provides for complete accountability and forces community
broadcasters to be as relevant and responsible as they can be to their
constituents.
7795 We believe that CKUA's
proposal is not only a viable solution for the problems outlined above, it is a
formula, I believe, for improving and preserving community broadcasting in
Canada and I would encourage the Commission to support it because as stated
previously the issue here is not Rawlco, it's not Pattison Group and it's not
CHUM, the issue here is one of systemic inequity.
7796 That concludes my
comments and I thank you very much for your indulgence and the opportunity to
speak to you.
7797 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Regan.
7798 Mr.
Langford.
7799 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Mr. Regan, I have some
concerns with what you said, and particularly in your last intervention, but it
was clearly said and I appreciate that.
7800 You made much of the
fact that you can't compete evenly in the sense of ad sales. It seems to me that not very long ago we
increased the amount of advertising that Canadian Campus Radio could sell. Have you sold out your inventory? Do you need more
time?
7801 MR. REGAN: No.
7802 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: No. I didn't think you would have
somehow. I mean just from ‑‑
it was a good guess, I thought.
7803 MR. REGAN: Yes. And to be honest, we are not really
interested in selling it out. We
are restricted to 504 minutes, I think, at the moment.
7804 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Mm‑hmm.
7805 MR. REGAN: And the problem with selling more
advertising is that it makes us less distinctive in the market. Our strength, I think, comes from being
distinctive, and to some degree, being non‑commercial, but at the same time,
even if we wanted ‑‑ at the moment, if we wanted to take that route, as,
for example, CJRT in Toronto has chosen to put their money on the commercial
revenue horse as opposed to CKUA where we are putting our money on betting on
our audience to support us, but even CJRT is restricted as to what they can do
in that regard.
7806 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: But at least we can feel
comforted that though you have made much of the point that you are restricted in
ads, in fact, there is no restriction on you right now until you get to 540 and
then there is nothing to stop you from making an application to the Commission
for more.
7807 MR. REGAN: Fair enough.
7808 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Who owns
CKUA?
7809 MR. REGAN: It is owned and operated by the CKUA
Radio Foundation which is a non‑profit foundation.
7810 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: And who are the
principals behind that?
7811 MR. REGAN: It is a volunteer board of directors who
is responsible for the foundation.
7812 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Does CHUM Radio have some
sort of interest in CKUA?
7813 MR. REGAN: No, sir, other than we borrow Kerry
David Mulligan, who does a lot of work for CHUM and some of CHUM's enterprises,
but he does a program for us.
7814 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: We see a lot of dossiers
and it is hard to keep all the pieces together.
7815 Satellite radio. We heard representatives of CKUA and the
overall umbrella organization at the satellite radio hearing, and obviously, you
would argue, I would think, that we didn't hear you well enough. At the same time, I think it is worth
remembering that, first of all, to get satellite radio you have to pay $10 or
$12 a month, whatever the current amount is, one, and number two, they can't
sell any local ads at all. I mean
they are completely restricted from that and I wouldn't think that the six
minutes of national ads they could sell would have very much impact on
you.
7816 So it seems to me that
your problem from satellite radio, if there is any problem at all but
particularly in these early innings, it must be the fear of losing your niche to
something more attractive, albeit more expensive. But surely, I mean the campus and
community radio stations that I have had any firsthand experience with are a
pretty nimble crowd. They know how
to tweak a niche and they know how to attract a local audience and how to hold
loyal audience members.
7817 When I think of ‑‑
I mean I live in Ottawa and the Carleton Campus station is just terrific. I mean there is nobody better in town
for holding a certain demographic than those folks. So I mean how threatened are you
really?
7818 MR. REGAN: It is a fair question but I think the
threat is real because, as I mentioned in my comments, I think there is a trend
developing toward more niche‑based commercial broadcasting. Certainly, satellite radio epitomizes
that right now. I think some of the
work that Rawlco is doing is very innovative in terms of commercializing a niche
component of the market. All of
those things represent a potential erosion of our market.
7819 You referenced,
Commissioner Langford, that satellite radio ‑‑ the expense associated with
satellite radio but the fact is that CKUA is different from satellite radio in
that we can't turn off the service if somebody doesn't support us. With satellite radio, if you don't pay
your monthly fee, you lose the service, but CKUA is in a voluntary support
position, and in fact ‑‑ I
don't want to say this too loudly perhaps but in fact people who support us
voluntarily often do so at a cost greater than what they could receive satellite
radio for.
So ‑‑
7820 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: If they are true
believers.
7821 MR. REGAN: They are
indeed.
7822 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: There is nothing like
faith. I mean it is the strongest
of all moving forces.
7823 MR. REGAN: But faith can wither on
occasion.
7824 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: It is like love dies, you
know, but I mean it is up to you to put a little perfume behind your ears and
keep it going.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
7825 MR. REGAN: We do it every
day.
7826 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Finally, on the point of
being carried by BDUs without fee, well, I mean you would have a compatriot in
Global Television and CTV with that argument, but it seems to me that if you did
want to get out and hustle some ads, that would be a bit of a benefit to say
that you have got a larger market.
7827 I mean I hear you today
but I kind of hear you saying that the sky might fall and help us, and I guess
my answer would be ‑‑ and I don't want to sound too hard‑nosed ‑‑ when
it starts to fall, give us a call.
I don't feel it is falling yet.
I don't see the threat.
7828 MR. REGAN: Well, I appreciate your point of view
but from where I am sitting, I do, and I am not speaking solely on CKUA's
behalf. I see ‑‑ honestly, I
see a threat to the community broadcast sector in this
country.
7829 CKUA, as you know, is a
strong service. We are supported
mightily by our audience. But many
community broadcasters in this country, as you know, operate on a shoestring,
and you are right, we are amongst the more nimble in the group, I think. It is what fuels us, I think, and
inspires us, in fact, from having to maintain some of that
edge.
7830 But with each new
technological innovation, with each new internet radio service, niche‑formatted
internet radio service, with satellite broadcasting, with commercialization of
the niche format now by mainstream terrestrial broadcasters, I see a
threat. CKUA is strong today but
part of my responsibility to CKUA and our existing audience and part of my
obligation to CKUA ‑‑ and I think to some extent I feel an obligation to
the community broadcast sector ‑‑ is to preserve CKUA well beyond today and
that is my concern.
7831 Most of my
effort ‑‑ we have done a good job of making CKUA strong today and I am not
too worried even about tomorrow but I am worried about five years down the road
and 10 years down the road because I want CKUA to be around
forever.
7832 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Well, so do we. Are you going to bring your message to
the Radio Policy Review that is coming?
7833 MR. REGAN: Absolutely.
7834 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Well, you will get
another kick at the can then.
7835 MR. REGAN: Yes.
7836 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you very much,
sir.
7837 MR. REGAN: Thank you very
much.
7838 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Those are my questions,
Mr. Chair.
7839 THE CHAIRPERSON: I suspect that you will be raising the
question of the Community Radio Fund in the framework of the radio
review?
7840 MR. REGAN: Yes, sir, I will.
7841 THE CHAIRPERSON: Because I think that is the place to do
it.
7842 MR. REGAN: I look forward to
it.
7843 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Regan.
7844 MR. REGAN: Thank you.
7845 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mrs. Secretary.
7846 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
7847 I would now call on the
next appearing intervener and that would be Fairchild Radio Group. If you would please come to the
front.
7848 You have 10 minutes for
your presentation. If you perhaps
could identify yourself before you speak.
Thank you.
INTERVENTION
7849 MS SEPHTON: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members
of the Commission. My name is
Connie Sephton and I am the Director of Corporate Affairs of Fairchild Radio
Group Ltd. and Fairchild Radio Calgary Ltd. which is the licensee of
CHKF‑FM.
7850 To my left is Christine
Leung, our Regional Manager, Alberta.
7851 To my right is Bonnie
Lee, Assistant Station Manager of CHKF Radio.
7852 We oppose the
application by Yadwinder S. Sivia for a new ethnic radio station in
Calgary.
7853 According to the latest
information from Statistics Canada, the Chinese and South‑Asian communities are
the largest and second‑largest ethnic communities respectively in Calgary. Both ethnic communities are already well
served with 82.5 hours of Chinese and over 350 hours of South‑Asian programming
provided by existing local ethnic radio and SCMO services. Any new entrant proposing to provide a
significant amount of programming targeting either community would have a
detrimental impact on existing services.
7854 The Commission stated
that the primary goal of the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy is to ensure access to
ethnic programming to the extent practicable given resource limitations. It has, therefore, taken the market
impact of licensing new ethnic services on existing ethnic services as its key
consideration when it licensed one new ethnic commercial radio station in
Toronto in 2003 and two in Vancouver last year.
7855 The Commission imposed
conditions of licence on all of these new licensees to ensure the maintenance of
the competitive balance in the markets and to mitigate the impact on existing
ethnic radio services.
7856 As the Commission may
be aware, Fairchild's ethnic radio stations currently operating in Vancouver,
Toronto and Calgary have a strong focus on serving the Canadian Chinese
markets. In reviewing the Sivia
application, we note that the applicant does not intend to offer any Chinese
programming because it agreed that the Chinese community is being well served in
Calgary.
7857 We further note that in
Sivia's reply to Fairchild's written intervention, it believes that Fairchild's
request to impose a condition of licence forbidding the broadcast of any Chinese
language by the applicant is reasonable and subsequently accepted our suggested
language proposing such condition of licence.
7858 However, we are still
very concerned about the negative impact that the large amount of additional
South‑Asian programming proposed by the applicant would have on the financial
stability of CHKF Radio.
7859 Calgary's ethnic
population is much smaller than that in the Greater Vancouver and Greater
Toronto areas. The South‑Asian
population in Calgary amounts to approximately 36,000 people. Local radio stations currently provide
356 hours of programming directed to the community each week, over half of which
is provided by CHKF‑FM and its SCMO service.
7860 Compared with the
Calgary Chinese community which has a population size of over 50,000 served with
82.5 hours of Chinese language radio programming, which is acknowledged by Sivia
as being well served, the South‑Asian community in Calgary can hardly be
regarded as underserved. It is, in
fact, better served than the Chinese population.
7861 Sivia proposes to
devote 45 per cent of its schedule to South‑Asian language programming. This would be a total of 56.7 hours of
additional programming available to that community in Calgary. It is simply not credible to deny that
squeezing in Sivia's new service in Calgary's already small ethnic market will
have no impact on CHKF's financial viability.
7862
Christine.
7863 MS LEUNG: South‑Asian programming accounts for an
important source of income for CHKF.
The revenue generated from South‑Asian programming for the FM station
alone represents 14 per cent of CHKF's overall revenue. If the SCMO service is included, that
revenue amounts to almost 20 per cent of CHKF's total revenue. This is the second‑largest source of
income for CHKF after its core Chinese language
programming.
7864 Over the last several
years, revenue from CHKF's Chinese programming has been steadily declining from
75 per cent in 2001 to 66 per cent in 2005, whereas revenue from the FM
station's South‑Asian programming has been steadily increasing from 11 per cent
in 2001 to 14 per cent in 2005.
7865 This is to show that
increasing revenue generated from South‑Asian programming is vitally important
to the financial well‑being of CHKF, particularly because CHKF suffered from
losses every year from 2001 to 2004 when its PBIT margin fluctuated
between ‑13 per cent and ‑3 per cent last year. We finally turned the corner to
profitability reaching a PBIT margin of +0.7 per cent thanks in part to the
growth in South‑Asian revenues.
7866 CHKF is very concerned
that at this critical time if a new competitor enters the market with no
limitation on the amount and on the scheduling of the South‑Asian programming,
CHKF's revenue growth trend may easily be reversed, which will have a
detrimental impact on the station.
7867 Listed revenue
projections in the Sivia application further concerned us.
7868 The applicant suggests
that in year one of operation it will generate just under $800,000 in revenues,
none of which will come from advertising spending on existing ethnic
broadcasters in the market and fully 85 per cent of which, that is, $680,000,
will be new advertising dollars.
7869 The applicant further
projects that 30 per cent of its year one revenue, that is, $240,000, will be
generated from the South‑Asian language programming, including Punjabi, Urdu and
Hindi.
7870 We question whether the
applicant can achieve this ambitious goal without impacting CHKF given the
limited size of the audience base and insufficient pool of
advertisers.
7871 New competitors
typically draw 30 per cent of their revenues from existing broadcasters. The applicant proposes to add 56.7 hours
of South‑Asian programming which represents an increase of 16 per cent per
week. This addition is likely to
draw heavily on existing advertisers for support, including those who currently
advertise on CHKF‑FM and SCMOs.
7872 It is unfair and
illogical to take CHKF's financial struggles in the past few years for granted,
expecting such struggles to be naturally compensated for by Fairchild's media
operations such as its ethnic specialty television service. CHKF is a separate entity and is not
financially backed by Fairchild's television service. CHKF must be able to stand on its
own. Given the current fragile
financial situation of CHKF, any undue competition at this time will jeopardize
its ability to survive.
7873 MS SEPHTON: Should the Commission decide to grant a
licence to Sivia, CHKF‑FM submits that it should impose two conditions of
licence.
7874 Number one: None of the programming broadcast by the
licensee shall be in the Chinese language.
7875 Number two: Programming broadcast to the South‑Asian
community shall be restricted to those times and day parts set out in the
program schedule accompanying its application and the maximum number of hours of
South‑Asian programming shall be 56.7 hours per broadcast
week.
7876 We note that the
applicant has made a written commitment of accepting only the first proposed
condition of licence. In our view,
the Commission should also impose the second proposed condition of licence in
the interest of maintaining the competitive balance in the
marketplace.
7877 Such a condition of
licence was imposed by the Commission in 1996 when CHKT was licensed as an
ethnic station in Toronto to address the concerns of then existing licensees
regarding the negative impact that CHKT could have had on their existing or
potential revenues, details of which are listed in the appendix that was
distributed to you earlier. Such a
condition of licence capped the maximum number of hours of Chinese programming
that CHKT could broadcast and restricted the hours of Cantonese and Mandarin
programming to specific hours as proposed in CHKT's schedule to alleviate the
impact of additional programming hours and scheduling conflicts on existing
ethnic broadcasters.
7878 In conclusion,
Fairchild opposes the Sivia application as we believe that Calgary's small
ethnic market is currently well served.
A new entrant in this market which competes directly with CHKF for
revenues from the South‑Asian community when such revenue is a vital source of
income for CHKF just as it turns the corner to modest profitability after
suffering consecutive years of losses will have a detrimental impact on the
financial health of CHKF.
7879 In the event that the
Commission decided to grant a licence to Sivia, we respectfully submit that two
conditions of licence be imposed by the Commission to ensure that existing
ethnic broadcasters do not suffer a negative financial
impact.
7880 Thank you and we would
be pleased to answer any questions you may have.
7881 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will have Mr. Langford but before he
asks his questions, only a point of clarification for me to make sure that I
understood.
7882 When you are talking
SCMO, are you talking CKUA SCMO or you are talking your
SCMO?
7883 MS SEPHTON: Both. We refer to both.
7884 THE CHAIRPERSON: Both are operating as SCMOs for the
South‑Asian community?
7885 MS SEPHTON: Correct.
7886 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
7887 Mr.
Langford.
7888 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
7889 My questions are two
and they are very specific because your intervention today is very, very
clear. I understand completely
where you are coming from.
7890 I want to go to page 2,
the second‑last line. I just want
to understand, and perhaps you have filed this with us but have a little mercy
on me, there is an awful lot of paper here and it is hard to keep it all in your
head.
7891 You say local radio
stations currently provide 356 hours of programming directed to this community
each week, over half of which is provided by CHKF‑FM and its SCMO. But how much is provided only by
CHKF‑FM?
7892 MS SEPHTON: Seventeen hours.
7893 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Seventeen,
17?
7894 MS SEPHTON: 17.
7895 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank
you.
7896 And just moving to the
next page, again at the bottom, you say over the last several years revenues
from CHKF's Chinese programming has been steadily declining from 75 per cent to
66 per cent over four years whereas revenue from the FM station's South‑Asian
programming has steadily increased from 11 to 14.
7897 Now, I am not good at
math ‑‑ I am terrible ‑‑ but it seems to me that you have, in a sense,
lost 9 per cent from one source and gained 3 per cent from another source. So where is the other 6 per cent coming
from?
7898 MS SEPHTON: From the other ethnic
languages.
7899 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So there is some growth
there.
7900 MS SEPHTON: Some growth there.
7901 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So is the loss because
you are programming a little less or the other communities are growing? What has really caused the
loss?
7902 MS SEPHTON: The overall
loss?
7903 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Well, the loss from the
Chinese community, I am most interested in ‑‑ from the Chinese
programming. It is really
traceable? I mean I don't have the
figures in front of me. So is the
revenue from Chinese programming really down or is it only down as a percentage
of overall revenues?
7904 MS SEPHTON: Down as a percentage from overall
revenues.
7905 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So is it possible that I
could read this to say that the revenue from the Chinese programming is still as
strong as ever but other revenues are growing from other
programming?
7906 MS SEPHTON: Basically, Chinese programming revenue
would still be the backbone of our source of
income ‑‑
7907 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Right.
7908 MS SEPHTON: ‑‑
but we do see a slight trend of that sort of declining, a bit of a
trend.
7909 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Well, is it declining or
is the other side growing? That is
what I am trying to figure out. It
might be declining in the sense of a percentage but it may not be declining in
gross terms.
7910 MS SEPHTON: Sure, Bonnie,
please.
7911 MR. LEE: The revenue, is it declining in terms of
the total revenue we generated? We
try to categorize according to ‑‑ the income according to the language of
the program. So the Chinese in
recent years is slightly declining.
But also we have an increase in other language programs, say, for
example, the South‑Asian and the Spanish‑speaking program.
7912 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Right.
7913 MR. LEE: Yes.
7914 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So it is not disaster
city yet?
7915 MS SEPHTON: Not for the Chinese
programming.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
7916 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Okay, thank you. Those answers are very clear and they
help me.
7917 Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
7918 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Langford.
7919 I don't know if you
attended the hearing of if you were following the hearing but when the
application by Mr. Sivia was heard, a representative from the Ukrainian
community was part of the application and was on the panel. He was saying that he has tried to do
business with your station but he was not able to find sufficient air time for
the Ukrainian community and so that is why he had moved to be a partner into the
Sivia application. Do you have any
comments on that?
7920 MS SEPHTON: Well, as far as the Ukrainian community
is concerned, certainly, we have encountered problems in dealing with ‑‑
brokerage with Ukrainian programming suppliers. They seem to be unable to commit to
their hours. Sometimes they could
ask, you know, can you give me six months of free air time and then we will
start paying you. So I am not sure
how that came into play in their application.
7921 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you very much. Thank you for
coming.
7922 Mrs.
Secretary.
7923 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
7924 We would now call on
the next five appearing interveners ‑‑ and I apologize ahead of time for
the pronunciation ‑‑ Neeraj Paul, Nimma Khaira, Hardeep Singh, John Simka
and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress.
7925 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, Mr. Neeraj, if you want to start
your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7926 MR. PAUL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, and members of the
Commission.
7927 My name is Neeraj Paul
and I have just recently migrated to Canada from India. I appear today to support the
application for an ethnic FM radio station. My family came to Canada recently from
India and we are active in the local community but we are also relatively
isolated, as are many immigrant families.
7928 Although I read the
Calgary Herald for Canadian news, there is very little coverage of news and
events from our Indo‑Canadian community in the newspaper and the local
media. There is little or no
coverage of news from our homeland in local newspapers, on TV or
radio.
7929 The local ethnic
station does not broadcast South‑Asian programming in the mornings when we
listen to the radio and it only has a few hours of programming per week, mainly
in the evening, at times which are not convenient for our family to listen to
music or news programming on the radio.
The hours when we would normally listen to the radio are filled with
Chinese programming.
7930 I believe that the
proposed radio station would appeal to people like myself and my family who want
to retain our heritage in this Canadian multicultural society. I have a four‑year‑old daughter who will
grow up in this country as a Canadian but it is important for us to be able to
speak our language, Punjabi, in our home and to have access to our culture,
including our music and traditions.
7931 Radio is the more
effective means of reaching young families and our elders who depend on
receiving news and information in their first language. I am fortunate that I am bilingual. Many others in my community are not as
fluent in English. We are a
fast‑growing part of the Calgary mosaic.
7932 I ask that you consider
the positive impact that licensing this application would
have.
7933 In addition to that, I
would just like to bring to the kind attention of the Commission that whatever
FM radios are there right now, they are appreciable, they are doing good for the
community, but we, I believe as a common man, we need more. We need more news, we need more sports,
we need more debates on the radio for the kind of growth in our community. It is growing day by day.
7934 Many immigrants are
coming to Canada and for that we need a radio station which I believe doesn't
need a chip. It took me six months
to know that we needed some kind of chip to hear that radio. So I need that. It should be on the air, switch on the
radio and ‑‑
7935 That is what I want to
say. Thank
you.
7936 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7937 Mrs.
Secretary.
7938 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
7939 I would call on Nimma
Khaira to present the next intervention.
Thank you.
INTERVENTION
7940 MR. KHAIRA: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission,
my name is Nimma Khaira.
7941 I am a Canadian, a
struggling musical artist. I came
to Canada in 1992. I had dreams of
a musical career in Canada. I
learned to play several instruments in India. I play the harmonium, keyboards and
several other instruments. I
actually speak and sing in Punjabi and Hindi. I compose my own songs and have written
over 60 songs but there are very few opportunities to perform my music in
Calgary and I am not able to support myself through my
music.
7942 So my profession today
is driving a taxi many hours each day through the streets of Calgary, especially
when they are slippery. That is how
I support myself. Music which I
love to perform is limited to performance at community events. At least once a month I am invited to
perform but the chances to perform are very few, some weddings, some other
festival occasions.
7943 People tell me that I
should have a CD and people tell me my music should be played on the radio but
nothing ever happens. There is no
interest by the broadcasters, so my music is not played on the radio even though
people tell me that I am a good performer.
7944 As I said, I drive a
taxi and I am in the car each day but the Calgary radio stations do not play
South‑Asian music. Our music is not
on the radio here. I don't believe
that the ethnic stations or the SCMO stations have ever assisted local
South‑Asian musicians or are interested in promoting local talent. But I still have hope that if Mr. Tamber
and Mr. Sivia put on a show here in Calgary, I will have the chance to sing on
the stage with musical stars from India and Vancouver. They have made a DVD of my performance
and thousands of DVDs were given to the members of our
community.
7945 So I am here to ask you
to approve the radio application of Mr. Sivia and Mr. Tamber because I am sure
that my music and the music of other artists would be played on the radio here
in Calgary.
7946 I also think that a
talent contest would give local performers a chance to make a CD and would be
good for their career.
7947 If you would like, I
could give you a short sample of my music.
I have a CD in my hand. It
is a performance performed in Edmonton last year. I can show the
Commission.
7948 THE CHAIRPERSON: So finally, you have a
CD?
7949 MR. KHAIRA: Yes.
7950 THE CHAIRPERSON: Have you sent copies of it all across
Canada to other ethnic radio stations?
If you are not played in Calgary, are you played in
Toronto?
7951 MR. KHAIRA: I am trying but nobody ‑‑ everybody
is interested when they listen to my songs and music but from the (inaudible),
they said, yes, we can help you out but nobody is coming out
front.
7952 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you.
7953 MR. KHAIRA: Thank you.
7954 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mrs.
Secretary.
7955 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Mr. Hardeep
Singh. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
7956 MR. DHILLON: Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Hardeep
Dhillon.
7957 I was born and raised
in India and I migrated to Canada in 1993 at the age of 19. I have been living in Calgary for the
last 13 years and I would like to support this application for some of these
reasons.
7958 Firstly, there is a
lack of ethnic media exposure for ethnic communities. We would like a channel that is readily
available 24 hours and at prime times.
That would certainly help the ethnic minorities here in
Calgary.
7959 Secondly, I think that
the way ethnics have grown in the last couple of years ‑‑ and this goes to
the whole Calgary, the growth has been rapid ‑‑ with the growth of the
population there has been a major growth in the businesses as well. This medium would give businesses to
grow as well as give it back to the community as businesses would
grow.
7960 Thirdly, I think there
is a ‑‑ I will talk about the generation gap that exists in every community
but it is very dominant in our East‑Indian community. The reason being is the majority of the
parents migrate to this country with values from back home and they want to
raise their kids with their values from back home, whereas kids growing up in
this country live in a different culture and there is a major
gap.
7961 I think a medium like
this would help us in bridging the gap as well as would keep ‑‑ the music
plays a major role in the community as well and I think that would help us in
keeping us in touch with our roots and culture.
7962 So I strongly believe
that this medium could help the whole community and I would like you to consider
this application.
Thanks.
7963 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7964 Mrs.
Secretary.
7965 THE SECRETARY: I would call on Mr. John Simka,
please ‑‑ Mr. Simka is not present.
7966 Then we will go to the
Ukrainian Canadian Congress intervention.
You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
7967 MR. ILNYCKY: Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Michael Ilnycky and I am the
President of the Calgary Branch of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. I want to
thank you for allowing me the time to make a submission to your
committee.
7968 The Ukrainian Canadian
Congress serves as the umbrella organization for over 30 religious, cultural and
youth organizations in Calgary. In
1999, the census revealed that approximately 60,000 Calgarians identified
themselves as being of Ukrainian origin.
However, we only see about 5,000 Calgarians who are actively involved in
our community through church groups, dance groups, choirs, seniors' clubs and
others.
7969 Increased access to
public and popular media will allow our community to grow and give those
individuals who are looking to reclaim their roots or learn about their ancestry
an opportunity to do so.
7970 Accordingly, the
Calgary Branch of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress supports the application of
Yadwinder S. Sivia for an ethnic radio station in Calgary and we are grateful
that they have approached our community to participate in this
process.
7971 Presently, the
Ukrainian community has limited access to public media. "Echoes of Ukraine," a local cable
television program, airs twice weekly for an hour at a time, with the second
show being a rebroadcast. The
program strives to provide local content when it can. However, this is sometimes difficult to
do because it relies heavily on limited volunteer time. It does show news and programming from
Ukraine in both Ukrainian and English.
However, this information can become dated given the quick changing
nature of current events. Most
importantly, the program airs locally on channel 70, and unfortunately, a lot of
people in our community do not have access to this
station.
7972 Our community does have
access to Ukrainian radio broadcasts from Edmonton. For an hour on Friday evenings, the
radio host does a very good job of including announcements from Calgary. However, the focus remains
Edmonton‑based.
7973 CJSW, the University of
Calgary's radio station, did provide our community with a weekly hour of air
time until the spring of 1996 when the program was cancelled. The program aired on Saturday mornings
and was very well received in the community because of its accessibility and
time slot. The program featured
community programming and news from Ukraine and locally.
7974 For timely and relevant
information, our community, therefore, relies on the internet and Ukrainian
weekly newspapers for its information.
Many people in our community have limited access to the internet and the
news in the newspapers is typically dated by the time that it arrives. Therefore, radio is the most practical
means of reaching our community through mass media.
7975 Calgary's Ukrainian
community grows at a modest pace, mostly through immigration but migration as
well from other North American cities.
These individuals expect some level of Ukrainian community programming
and activism, and radio access would further assist with growing and bringing
our community together. Ukrainian
radio programming would ensure that local news and news from Ukraine will reach
people in a timely manner. Many
seniors, typically those post‑World War II immigrants, relish news and music
from Ukraine. This is the lifeline
to their culture.
7976 The Ukrainian Canadian
Congress lends its full support to Yadwinder S. Sivia in his
application.
7977 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
7978 Mrs.
Duncan.
7979 COMMISSIONER
DUNCAN: You have all made a very
strong case but I am interested, because we are concerned with the best use and
the maximum use of the frequencies that we have, in exactly what efforts you
have made to participate in the Fairchild radio station.
7980 MR. ILNYCKY: That is a good
question.
7981 My
understanding ‑‑ and the Fairchild Group can certainly correct me because
this was before my time as President and involvement with the local
branch ‑‑ originally, the Ukrainian community did have access to, I
believe, an hour a week, for five days over the course of the week, and that was
based on volunteer time and it was given to the community free of charge. And again, I speak from memory and the
Fairchild Group can certainly me in this.
And as they grew, they had communities who were willing to pay the
allocated fee and they have filled that time slot and the hour that we have
courtesy of Roman Bretane (phon.) from Edmonton and his program is to fill time
on the air.
7982 And in terms of making
an effort, right now we are in the process of rebuilding the community from my
predecessor as she certainly had her focus and did a very, very good job in
terms of what she wanted her mandate to be. My mandate is to grow the community from
not only those individuals who are involved in the community right now but to
reach the people who may know that they are Ukrainian and they simply mark down
that they are Ukrainian on the census.
7983 What is the best way to
reach them? To me, if they are
flipping through the radio station and they hear something in Ukrainian, they
might hear a Ukrainian ad for, for example, a cooking course or something like
that, that might pique their interest and that is the way to hook them into our
community.
7984 As an established
community versus my colleagues who are intervening in this particular issue,
their lifeline is their mother tongue and that is what they need to hear. A lot of our people have lost the
ability to speak Ukrainian, and frankly, they have become so integrated into the
community that they really don't need to have the sources that my colleagues on
the panel require for their support, whereas what we are trying to build is
regain an interest in the Ukrainian culture in Calgary and build upon that 5,000
base that we have right now.
7985 COMMISSIONER
DUNCAN: I certainly appreciate the
situation that you find yourself in and I would encourage you to try and work
with Fairchild. I notice that their
share of the audience is very small and it seems to me in the interest of making
the best use of the limited resources that we have here in this market that
might be something that you all would want to consider.
7986 MR. ILNYCKY: If I could pose a
question ‑‑
7987 COMMISSIONER
DUNCAN: Sure.
7988 MR. ILNYCKY: ‑‑
and it is certainly rhetorical.
7989 Is there a way to
monitor the ad revenue that is coming in for a certain community with respect to
competition within its own community, because perhaps the individuals who have
in the past supported the radio programming have now moved to the dailies that
are available to, say, for example, the Chinese community and perhaps there is
an internal revenue struggle within that community?
7990 COMMISSIONER
DUNCAN: Not to my knowledge but my
colleagues may have some comments.
7991 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think it is a big issue. You are raising a very large
question. I don't know that anybody
has such a question. Some attempts
are made to give at the macro level national information in that regard but that
is certainly not specific to any given market. But I think it is a key
question.
7992 It is my understanding
that the Sivia application, while they will have an Ukrainian component of a
certain significance, they will be aiming at the South‑Asian market. Now, I understand from this morning's
presentation that there is South‑Asian programming on Fairchild under SCMO and
under CKUA SCMO. Is there enough
other potential clients to support a third voice or even a fourth voice in this
instance is a question that we will have to consider.
7993 I don't know if the
gentlemen that are with you or who came at the table at the same time as you
have an answer to that because I understand from their presentation that they
are either a listener or interested in having their music played. They are not businessmen who are looking
to get access to the radio to sell their wares.
7994 I don't know if you
have any comments, any of you.
7995 Mr.
Langford.
7996 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Just a quick
question. Well, first of all, I am
probably going to butcher your name and I apologize. Is it Mr. Ilnicky?
7997 MR. ILNYCKY: It is Ilnycky.
7998 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Was it your dad that was
here yesterday?
7999 MR. ILNYCKY: I believe it was my father who made an
application or a submission, yes.
8000 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: It is a wise son who
recognizes his father.
8001 MR. ILNYCKY: Sorry?
8002 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: It is a wise son who
recognizes his father.
8003 MR. ILNYCKY: Oh, I have big shoes to fill
today.
8004 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: He was passing himself
off as Andrew. Is that a
hint?
8005 MR. ILNYCKY: That is Andrew,
yes.
8006 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: That is the guy,
eh.
8007 A question I have, and
I discussed it with him as well and you mentioned it today, this was to
be ‑‑ the Sivia application, as I understand it, was to be programming to
the Ukrainian community in Ukrainian.
So how many Ukrainians speak ‑‑ it sounds from what I am hearing
from you today there is almost a bigger need for English language programming
with a Ukrainian cultural focus.
8008 MR. ILNYCKY: I think that is correct. Yes, there certainly is a need for the
access to the culture. I think that
that is something that Jo Kodapinka of "Echoes of Ukraine" has done, is he has
moved a large Ukrainian component to English. Absolutely.
8009 The key of my
application though too in regard to furthering my mandate to grow the community
is also to maintain access for the people who need it. There are a lot of seniors in our
community who have no clue what the internet is ‑‑
8010 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Right.
8011 MR. ILNYCKY: ‑‑
and when they hear something on the radio, they can sit, they can cook, they can
do other things while they are listening and that is why it is the most
appropriate medium for us to try to channel our culture in our
community.
8012 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: But if the community is
really, really small, you have to think of the economics of it too and you just
have to think, you know, it may be what ‑‑ and I am no wise owl on this but
it may be that some sort of courses to help people like that get comfortable
with the internet ‑‑ I mean my mother‑in‑law is 91 and she is on the
internet, you know ‑‑
8013 MR. ILNYCKY: Yes.
8014 COMMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
‑‑ to help them get comfortable because through that you can source your
own language programming, you can source all sorts of things, especially if you
are in broadband, of course, and you have more spectrum.
8015 I am not trying to blow
you away or anything but even if we were to grant a licence today to Mr. Sivia,
it would be about a year before it would be on the air. So if there are other avenues you can
explore, I would certainly encourage you to do so.
8016 Thank you very
much. Those are my questions, Mr.
Chair.
8017 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, gentlemen. We will break for lunch and we will be
back at two o'clock.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1245 / Suspension à
1245
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1400 / Reprise à
1400
8018 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, please.
8019 Mrs.
Secretary.
8020 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8021 Before we proceed to
the next intervener, I would just like to say on the record that we have
received some documentation from certain applicants, that we have accepted and
placed on the public record and are available in the public examination
room.
8022 They are for item 10,
Newcap. There is a list of
corporations in broadcast‑related fields.
The other document is Newcap's ratings projections for a new Triple A FM
in H segments.
8023 With respect to item 3,
numbered company 1182743 Alberta, there is a general outline of their
shareholders' agreement.
8024 Finally, for item 9,
Harvard Broadcasting, there is a letter from Aria re the CTD commitment and
another document regarding the use of a combiner on the Rogers site and its
cost.
8025 Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8026 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs.
Secretary.
8027 Regarding item number
7, the application by Yadwinder Sivia, the Commission has received a document
from Sivia. It is evident that
there was miscommunication between Commissioner del Val and the applicant. Commissioner del Val was requesting
percentage growth rates in annual revenues. The applicant has filed a revised 7‑year
income forecast which reflects significant differences in projected revenue
throughout the licence term.
8028 Upon reflection, the
panel has determined that the information Commissioner del Val was seeking is
already in the file and no additional information is necessary. Therefore, the panel has decided that it
will return to the applicant the revised information it has
filed.
8029 Mrs. Secretary, we will
now continue the intervention period.
8030 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8031 I would now call on the
next five appearing interveners and they are all seated, so I would ask for Mr.
John Marantz ‑‑ have I pronounced it correctly ‑‑ to present your
intervention.
8032 MR. MARANTZ: It is Josh.
8033 THE SECRETARY: Josh?
8034 MR. MARANTZ: Yes.
8035 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. Please go ahead, you have 10 minutes for
your presentation.
INTERVENTION
8036 MR. MARANTZ: First, I will just give a little bit of
background about myself. My name is
Josh Marantz. I have been in the
arts for over 30 years as a musician, writer, actor, arts administrator,
consultant, manager, publisher and club owner.
8037 I came to Calgary 16
years ago and was Director of Programming and Communications at the Calgary
Centre for Performing Arts for six years and I was responsible for all the
performing arts programming on behalf of the Calgary Centre for Performing
Arts.
8038 I was a director on
numerous boards over the years, including the Calgary Folk Festival,
Vice‑President of ACTRA Manitoba, President of Calgary International Film
Festival, Vice‑President of Arts Touring Alliance of Alberta and Vice‑President
of the Canadian Arts Presenting Association. I was also a juror for the Juno's 2002
and 2005 under the roots and traditional category.
8039 I am currently a
concert promoter, music publisher and manager of artists, and owner and operator
of a live music venue in town called "The Ironwood Stage and
Grill."
8040 In the three years of
operation at "The Ironwood Stage and Grill," we were awarded Calgary's Favourite
Live Music Venue in the folk and roots category by the "Fast Forward Readers
Poll," which is a weekly arts publication here in Calgary.
8041 The reason I am in
support of Rawlco's application ‑‑ there are several different
reasons. As a manager of artists,
the project 10K20, which is allotted to give $10,000 each to 20 different
artists to produce their CDs per year, I think is just an amazing program for a
radio station to get into. A lot of
artists, whether they are veterans in the music scene or just starting out, it
is fairly expensive to get a CD recorded, produced and on the market. I think this will benefit experienced
artists and new artists who haven't had the chance to get in a studio and show
what they can do on a recorded format.
So not only do they get to produce the CDs and get them on the market but
they also get to retain all of the rights of that CD once it is
produced.
8042 Now, when I first heard
about this, I thought what is the catch and there really doesn't seem to be a
catch. The artists get to retain
all the rights and they also get a chance to get on the air as well on the
Rawlco Radio Station. Now, this to
me is one of the most important things to local artists, is to get your music on
the air and exposed to the local market.
8043 Some of the other
companies who were applying for a licence were talking about giving money to
artists and sending them away to conferences. My question for them was what is your
commitment to getting these artists on the air, and the answer was, well, it is
kind of low on the totem pole, it is a low priority. So that to me alone shows a commitment
on Rawlco's behalf to the local arts scene, local artists, of not only helping
them produce CDs and giving the money for that but also getting them on the air
and supporting them that way. So
that is very important to me.
8044 As a club owner,
Rawlco's program "Showtime," which is set up to support local artists by giving
them a chance once a month ‑‑ two separate artists ‑‑ to perform live
in a local venue and paying them $2,000 each for that performance. Again, the relationship between radio
stations and live performance venues is usually one of well, the live
performance venue pays the radio station some money for advertising or some form
of arrangement of goods for services.
This seems to be strictly to promote the artists and the live music
venues whose mandate is to present artists who perform original material. That I haven't seen before and I think
that is a wonderful program.
8045 There is no money that
is directly being earmarked for the performance venue but just taking into
consideration that Rawlco is paying the artist fee for that performance, that
will benefit the live music venue.
The amount of exposure from advertising those events on Rawlco Radio will
benefit the live venue as well as benefit the local artist. So I think that is a tremendous program
as well.
8046 Now, also as a manager,
I believe that Rawlco's program called "Live at Five," which basically
takes ‑‑ I believe it is two artists per week. To get them in the studio performing
live on the air throughout the year is also not only tremendous exposure but
they are also earmarking some money to those artists for those
performances. I believe it is $500
each. Other stations do have live
performances on the air of artists but the compensation is nowhere near that
generous.
8047 So often, we find in
this business, whether it is a music venue or a radio station or a television
station, that the artists are often taken advantage of for their performance and
not compensated properly monetarily and I just think that Rawlco's commitment to
take care of that, to compensate artists properly for their performance,
recognizes their contribution and the essential aspect of the artist to the
success of the radio station.
8048 So for those reasons, I
strongly support Rawlco's bid and urge you to grant them a licence for a radio
station in Calgary. Thank
you.
8049 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Marantz.
8050 For the benefit of
those who weren't here this morning, we will hear all the people that are at the
table, then we will question.
8051 So, Mrs. Secretary,
could you introduce the next intervenor.
8052 THE SECRETARY: The next appearing intervener is the
Calgary Folk Music Festival.
INTERVENTION
8053 MR. FERGUSON: Thank you. My name is Greg Ferguson. I am the Chairman of the Board of
Directors for the Calgary Folk Music Festival and I am appearing on behalf and
supporting Rawlco's application for licence.
8054 In 27 years, the
Calgary Folk Music Festival has grown into a four‑day event attracting over
44,000 people, and now with a $2.4 million budget, over $700,000 of that is our
artistic budget and at least half of that on Canadian
artists.
8055 Our success is built
largely on Calgary's large and really vibrant folk music fan base. There are more full‑season folk clubs in
Calgary ‑‑ and most of those are fully subscribed with waiting
lists ‑‑ than any other urban centre in Canada.
8056 Our audience and local
music fan base demographics are very vibrant and really defy all stereotypes
that are out there. They are
younger, they are more diverse and have a higher household income level than
most can imagine.
8057 Although the Festival
presents events year‑round, the Princess Island event is the largest outdoor
cultural festival outside of the Stampede.
In short, folk music is really thriving in Calgary.
8058 Besides the primary
goal of producing the Festival, our mission really is focused on the promotion
of local and regional folk artists and music to Calgarians. In addition to appearances at the
Festival, we organize a number of showcases of local and regional talent and
take those to other cities. We
conduct a very successful annual singer/songwriter competition and go out of our
way to present local artists, live artists throughout the
year.
8059 The board and staff of
the Festival are very excited about Rawlco's proposal and how it supports our
core mission, objectives and principles, and ultimately what it will mean to
both artists and audiences in this region.
8060 The $50,000 that Rawlco
proposes to provide the Festival each year will be used to expand the number of
artists we present at the Festival and exclusively on Canadian talent, which, it
has to be said, stands amongst the best in the world. It is going to allow us to consider more
emerging artists and perhaps from the further reaches of the country as
well. The Canadian portion of our
artistic budget will definitely increase proportionally to this
donation.
8061 We are viewed as one of
the most progressive, relevant and, I think, even edgy folk music festivals in
North America and this partnership will allow us to push that even
further.
8062 The Folk Festival
believes that the proposed programming focus on folk music will fill an audience
need that we see only partially met by other great broadcasters in this
province. We also believe that
their initiative, Rawlco's, will help increase the size of the overall audience
of our type of music and this will likely benefit the other broadcasters as
well.
8063 In conclusion, the Folk
Festival believes that Rawlco's efforts will be a huge boon to a diverse range
of local artists, audiences and the experience that we offer on Princess Island
each year. We are extremely excited
about this possible cultural partnership, their overall efforts and the impact
that they will have and hope that the CRTC will consider their application in
the most positive manner. Thank
you.
8064 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Ferguson.
8065 Mrs.
Secretary.
8066 THE SECRETARY: I would now call upon Mr. John Campbell
to make his presentation. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
8067 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. Good afternoon.
8068 First of all, I will
introduce myself and give you a little background. My name is John Campbell. I have resided in Calgary for the past
27 years and during this time I have performed as a Celtic musician and
singer/songwriter in various engagements both in Calgary and abroad. I ran many open stages and jams over
these years, some of which are still running
today.
8069 As an artist, I have
had the good fortune to release four recordings. All but one were produced
independently. The last recording,
"Crossing Borders," was well accepted and I am happy to say it receives some but
not a lot of airplay, and airplay is absolutely tantamount to an artist for his
success. And unless you get on with
a big label, the Indies are hard to ‑‑ it is hard to
go.
8070 Which brings me to the
10K20 that Rawlco are proposing. I
mean that is an absolute godsend for an artist to have that kind of money and
not take it out of your own pocket and not take it from your own gigs, nor
compromise your lifestyle, your living.
It is fantastic and they also have proven ‑‑ they have done it. They have done it out in Edmonton. So I think it is
great.
8071 I have been around
Calgary for 27 years and I think Rawlco's proposal has a lot of good points that
will benefit Calgary's music industry and will also improve the quality,
diversity and therefore the pleasure of the listening
audience.
8072 I sometimes find
listening to radio that the play list from Toronto doesn't include the kind of
people that I want to listen to. I
have to say that.
8073 Calgary, as I am sure
you are aware, continues to grow very quickly. It almost doubled in size since my
arrival in 1979 and during this time the tastes of the city have changed
naturally to become more metropolitan.
8074 To highlight this, I
refer to my experience as leader of Draft Porridge, one of the first Canadian
Celtic bands to be formed in Calgary.
I had the personal joy of introducing a different music at a time when
country and western was king. At
that time it was difficult to break through and I am glad to see all that has
changed.
8075 Therefore, through
these 27 years, having been connected to so many writers, musicians, club
owners, promoters, media and also recording people, not to mention Calgarians in
general, I feel that I can speak with some passion on the subject of Rawlco's
licence request.
8076 I know there is a
definite need for a station that focuses on Canadian/Calgarian performers,
established and otherwise. This is
a good opportunity to boost their up and coming artists, some of whom, without
assistance, we might never get the chance to hear.
8077 Rawlco's proposals will
help them get the exposure that is imperative, as I said before, in this
increasingly tough marketplace.
8078 Equally and perhaps
even more so, the need for the station is for the listening public. Calgarians/Canadians have a history of
supporting their own, as has been proven by such artists as Jan Arden and Paul
Brandt and many, many others.
8079 In closing, I would ask
the committee to look favourably on Rawlco's application and I thank you for
allowing me this opportunity to address this hearing. That is all.
8080 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Campbell.
8081 Mrs.
Secretary.
8082 THE SECRETARY: We will ask Mr. Rob Ursel to present his
intervention. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
8083 MR. URSEL: Thank you.
8084 Good afternoon. My name is Rob Ursel and I am a
songwriter, singer, musician locally.
I front two bands as the songwriter, singer and guitar player as well as
side man in another band.
8085 I have been attempting
to do this for a living now for about six years with a few little odd jobs
interspersed in there but it is a tough road to hoe if you are to make a good go
of it. With the two albums that I
have produced so far, I still owe money on them.
8086 This is actually a
common topic of conversation if you have got a couple of recording artists
sitting in a bar having a beer or a coffee. They are not talking about grand
artistic pursuits but rather how are the sales going, how are you going to get
funding for the next tour, for the next album, et cetera.
8087 Because of this, when I
saw the proposal that Rawlco had put forward, I was extremely excited not only
for myself and opportunities that this will allow me to, let us say, sell the
CDs and put the money in my pocket, pay my band so they can leave their day jobs
and come on tour, et cetera.
8088 And as well, not only
for myself but for the local music community, particularly the folk and roots
community, recording studios, sound engineers, there are going to be benefits to
the entire local music scene, local music society, to the individual benefits to
the sound engineers, the recording artists, the venues, et
cetera.
8089 It seems like Rawlco is
dropping a little golden egg on us from out of the sky and I am extremely
excited about it and I would be really disappointed if this is not given a
chance, not primarily for Rawlco but for my own sake and for the sake of my
peers in this city.
8090 That is the long and
the short of it for me, is that I see it as an incredible opportunity for
performers and recording artists in this town. Thank you.
8091 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Ursel.
8092 Mrs.
Secretary.
8093 THE SECRETARY: Now, I would call Ms Lin Elder to
present her intervention. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
8094 MS ELDER: Hi. Good afternoon. My name is Lin Elder and I am honoured
to be here today in support of Rawlco Radio.
8095 To give you a little
history on myself, I started as a folk musician singer/songwriter many, many,
many years ago right out of high school, joining another girl, travelling around
in a Volkswagen van for five years called "Rumours." We toured around in this van and played
small clubs and had a great time.
8096 After that was
completed, I joined a band or played in a band called "Grace Under Pressure,"
which was an alternative folk pop band out of Edmonton and that lasted for about
seven years. During that time, I
met Jan Arden, later became her background vocalist, acoustic guitar
player/percussionist and was with her for about five or six
years.
8097 Once that came to an
end, I played in an all girl band, four girls, in Calgary here called "The
Collective," including Jenny Allen who is a famous folk star here in Calgary and
in Alberta; Natasha Stoesser and also Anne Loree who was the young lady who
wrote the Canadian classic song, "Insensitive."
8098 That band came to a
demise and now I am currently in a band called The Faiths, which is also three
women, Jenny Allen included, myself and a young lady from B.C., her name Laurie
Reed.
8099 I am also at this time
mentoring a fabulously talented young artist named Jasmine Whenham. I am currently recording her debut CD
right now.
8100 In my opinion ‑‑ I
have been a folk artist for many years ‑‑ folk artists, I don't think, are
fly‑by‑nighters. They are
lifers. They are in it for the long
haul. We are not the
pick‑of‑the‑week or the flavour‑of‑the‑month or whatever you call it but we are
in it for the song, we are in it emotionally, and it is sad to me
sometimes ‑‑
8101 I would like to say,
first off, that CKUA is our champion here because they do offer us an
opportunity to be heard, to play our music, and they fill the rooms in the clubs
that we play and I am extremely thankful to CKUA.
8102 I am also very excited
that Rawlco Radio may have an opportunity here to join forces with them, which
could only boost things for artists like myself, like Rob, like all of us up
here who have spent a lifetime creating music without having the opportunity for
a larger listening audience and it is challenging.
8103 With The Faiths, we
have released two commercial singles but being that we don't fit in the rock
format, the pop format, the hip‑hop format, and it goes on and on, you last a
certain amount of time and then you are gone. They give you your little bit of time
and ‑‑
8104 I do believe that The
Face ‑‑ as well as there are so many talented artists in Alberta, in
Calgary, but you have to be heard by so many ‑‑ I am a 47‑year‑old woman
and I think that people in the majority of my age don't want to listen to rap,
don't want to listen to hip‑hop, and this is a huge demographic that is missing
and have a huge desire to hear music like mine out there. It is folk, it is acoustic‑based, it is
about the song, it is beautiful stuff and I think that there are people out
there that really are lacking that on the airwaves today.
8105 I am thankful for
Rawlco Radio to come forward with this to support artists like myself, to get
our music heard finally, along with CKUA and others, CBC, who I am totally
thankful for. Having a commercial
radio station just gives us the extra strength and power behind us that we need
to be heard and I am all for them.
I am very excited for them.
I have got everything crossed for them and I hope they do very well. I hope you truly consider
them.
8106 Once again, my name is
Lin Elder. I appreciate you
listening and all the best to Rawlco Radio. Thank you.
8107 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mrs.
Elder.
8108 Mr.
Langford.
8109 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You can uncross
everything for a while because we don't move that fast.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
8110 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You won't jinx anything,
so you can rest a little.
8111 MS ELDER: All right.
8112 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Maybe in about six‑seven
months, start crossing everything up again.
8113 I was wondering ‑‑
I have lost control of the names again ‑‑ the club owner, the first ‑‑
Josh, right?
8114 MR. MARANTZ: Josh, yes.
8115 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: It is really clear where
you stand and what you think is good here and so I am cool on that. But as a radio listener and a person who
is obviously very much involved with entertainment, both as a business and
pleasure and whatnot, trying to flog it, what else is missing for listeners
here? Who else ‑‑ what other
group or groups aren't getting what they want?
8116 We know that folk isn't
getting enough; they are getting some on CKUA according to Ms Elder. And we have heard here that the older
demographic isn't getting enough.
We have heard the younger demographic isn't. But you are out there and you are
listening to the radio. Who else
isn't getting what they want?
8117 MR. MARANTZ: I would say it is not necessarily
genre‑specific. With the private
radio stations, as John referred to, a lot of the programming is done from one
area, whether that be Toronto or from somewhere in the States, and local artists
are not getting the chance to be on the airwaves.
8118 And the fact that
Rawlco's Edmonton Station, which is a smooth jazz station, apparently, 50 per
cent of their play list is from the Edmonton area and I think that the fact that
this is a folk/root station which is being proposed, it will give ‑‑ and
again, you can categorize music all you want, the genres tend to encompass a lot
of different styles of music. So
having a folk/root station can include some alt country, some ‑‑ you know,
all those types of music in their play list.
8119 But the main thing, I
think, is it is not necessarily genre‑specific that isn't being played on the
air, it is a local representation of the artists. And being a promoter and presenting live
music and focusing on original live music, the amount of talent in Calgary
alone, professional high‑quality artistry is just ‑‑ I mean it is
phenomenal the amount out there.
8120 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So we should stop
focusing so hard on genres and focus a little more on independence and rising
stars and local talent? You are not
the first person to tell us that, by the way.
8121 MR. MARANTZ: Yes, I believe so.
8122 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I think we are beginning
to understand the message. We are
slow, you know. We don't move as
fast as we used to. We are outside
of the demographics, most of us.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
8123 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Those of you who have
recordings ‑‑ anybody can jump in on this ‑‑ are any of you getting
played on satellite radio? Because
when we did the satellite radio hearing, we heard that some of the independents
were actually getting picked up by the Americans because they have got so much
to program ‑‑ we heard testimony from some of the independents that they
were amazed to hear some of their songs on satellite radio. Is that happening to any of
you?
8124 MR. URSEL: I am not really sure because I have
never listened to satellite radio except on the airplane but the one band, the
House Doctors, with whom I have released two
albums ‑‑
8125 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I am sorry, could you
speak just a little louder?
8126 MR. URSEL: I am sorry. The one band, the House Doctors, which I
front and with whom I have released two albums, we have had national airplay on
CBC, a fair bit of airplay on CKUA and various campus stations, and whether we
have been picked up by satellite radio, I don't have a clue actually. How do I find that
out?
8127 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I don't know. You might have to go and look at their
play lists on the internet or something like that because it kind of came as a
surprise to us. It was
a ‑‑
8128 THE CHAIRPERSON: I would suggest you will notice
it ‑‑ if you are getting SOCAN payment, you will see it on your SOCAN
statement.
8129 MR. URSEL: Mm‑hmm.
8130 THE CHAIRPERSON: So if you haven't seen it, more than
likely it is ‑‑
8131 MR. URSEL: Mm‑hmm.
8132 THE CHAIRPERSON:
‑‑ because you are not carried.
8133 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Those are my
questions. Thank you very much, Mr.
Chair.
8134 MS ELDER: I was just going to say that it is my
understanding ‑‑ it was brought to my attention yesterday by Kenna, who is
with Rawlco, that The Faiths are being played on satellite
radio.
8135 I have heard that from
a few others recently, which is really cool. You know, you get a call from somebody
in the States who says, oh my God, I just heard your song on the radio, and I
said, really? Like it is very
exciting. It is just actually
starting to happen recently, which is exciting news, and thanks to Kenna for
letting me know that yesterday.
8136 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Yes, that is what we
heard, and you know, it is kind of interesting because we are always worried
about the Americans taking over the Canadian airwaves and maybe the revolution
is moving the other way, very slowly.
8137 MS ELDER: We are fighting back, I
think.
8138 COMMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Yes. Good for you.
8139 Those are my questions,
Mr. Chair.
8140 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Langford. Thank you very much to all of
you.
8141 Mrs. Secretary, we will
move to the next interveners.
8142 THE SECRETARY: I would now call the next five appearing
interveners: Tammy Schuiling,
Megatunes, The Union Ltd., Blayne Crowchild and Ashley‑Rae
Snape.
8143 I would ask Tammy
Schuiling to begin her presentation and you will have 10 minutes for your
presentation.
INTERVENTION
8144 MS SCHUILING: Thank you for allowing me to
speak.
8145 Well, I am a
36‑year‑old professionally employed woman, quite white collar. I am a National Marketing Director for a
national satellite provider and I have a few years' experience working in the
Calgary radio industry.
8146 Let me start off by
saying I cannot skateboard, nor can I snowboard, I don't wear baggy pants and I
don't have any piercings or tattoos to speak of but I do appreciate good music
and Calgary radio is sadly lacking the kind of music that I like. In fact, I no longer listen to Calgary
music radio stations except for talk radio.
8147 Like many Calgarians
who are tired of turning on nothing but classic rock or country or
factory‑produced pop, I plug in my iPod and, unfortunately, that erodes the
exposure and growth of very talented artists. It also enables people to disconnect or
disengage from the communities in which they
live.
8148 To me it is more than
just the music that would refresh the Calgary listening landscape, it is the
injection of non‑mainstream culture, it is the support and development of local
talent that may have to relocate in order to get exposure, it is building a
sense of community and belonging for those who share in this kind of music, and
it is, quite frankly, non longer perpetuating the stereotypical image of
Calgary, of being red‑neck and non‑progressive.
8149 Really, in a city of a
million people, we ‑‑ really, if you narrow it down, we only have four
choices for music and it is country, classic rock, kind of the light rock or
adult contemporary or the top 40 hot AC and I think we deserve more choice than
that.
8150 You are probably
thinking that I am a bit of an anomaly because I don't fit the typical
demographic but let me tell you how this all got started. It probably goes back ‑‑ I hate to
admit it ‑‑ about 23 years ago when I really stumbled on a genre of music
that wasn't readily accepted in my small town of 3,000 where I grew
up.
8151 But I started listening
to the Ramones and the Sex Pistols, ERM, the Smiths, The Cure, and I loved it
and I always have and always will.
And that sort of evolved into the early nineties grunge scene. I know you
probably don't think that I belong in a mosh pit but I have more than a few
injuries to prove it. So bands like
Nirvana, Soundgarden, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, got me excited about music
again. And then came the Breeders,
Garbage, Blur, Offspring, Jane's
Addiction, Stone Temple Pilots.
8152 There has been sort of
a gap from the early nineties to the music scene now and I see a really exciting
trend happening where the new alternative music artists are sort of blending the
old genres from the eighties that I used to listen to and the nineties, and they
have created this new genre that is really quite exciting. I grew up on it and it has a lot of legs
to stand on. I and many of my
friends loved it as kids and we have grown up with it as it has changed
throughout the years.
8153 If you look at the club
and concert scene in Calgary, it is quite interesting actually. You have got the old mainstays like the
Ship and Anchor who have been around for a couple of decades now. They play the alternative music and it
is full all the time. And Broken
City promotes local bands as well.
The van's work tour is always sold out despite the fact that there is no
local radio station programming that promotes this kind of music. So there is a demand for it in this
city.
8154 So what I find
interesting is that Extreme can return their Calgary listening landscape to
those old musical roots that I grew up with and I think it will create a lot of
loyalty with new listeners.
8155 Calgary is a young
city. If you look at it, it has got
one of the youngest demographics in the country at only 34 and I think it is
really time to cater to a younger demographic and stop thinking that only the
older demographic needs to have their needs met as far as the music listening
landscape is concerned.
8156 So as such, I support
Harvard Broadcasting in this application and I thank you for your
time.
8157 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs.
Schuiling.
8158 Mrs.
Secretary.
8159 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on the intervenor
Megatunes and, I believe, Mr. Pleau.
Go ahead, please.
INTERVENTION
8160 MR. PLEAU: Good afternoon. My name is Mike Pleau. I am the owner of Megatunes, which is an
independent music retailer. We have
one store here in Calgary and one in Edmonton.
8161 I would like to begin
by stating that I am not familiar with each and every application that you are
considering here this week but to my knowledge the application by Harvard
Broadcasting to make Extreme 92.9 a reality is the only one you will be
considering that has proposed a commitment to serve an audience demographic of
12‑25 by entertaining that target audience with modern alternative
music.
8162 When I think of modern
alternative music I think of new, interesting, sometimes gritty, cutting edge
rock and pop music that would appeal directly to that target
demographic.
8163 Currently, there are no
other broadcasters playing anything close to that genre of music in this
market. Therefore, there are no
other commercial radio stations in Calgary or in southern Alberta for that
matter satisfying the wishes or serving the needs of a very large and important
segment of our local population.
8164 As it stands today,
young people in this city are very cynical or, worse, negative about radio in
general and especially of the music programming choices being offered to them in
Calgary. They feel, and rightfully
so, that no local commercial broadcasters are interested in playing music that
they like, and unfortunately, that is very true right now in
Calgary.
8165 The music that is
important to them and the type of music that Extreme FM proposes to play is
simply not available on the radio here outside of Campus Radio. In this demographic, male and female are
very passionate about music. Music
is extremely important to them. It
is a lifestyle choice. They take
their listening choices very, very seriously. It is personal to
them.
8166 As a music retailer in
this market for the past 17 years, I have encountered people from this age group
every day since we opened. They are
bright, intelligent and enthusiastic about their local music scene. They are supportive of their peers and
the musicians in this city. But the
only outlets to hear these artists' music right now are in the live venues, the
internet and in stores like ours.
8167 These music fans would
welcome and embrace a radio station in Calgary that would further expose and
promote local artists' music which would lead to further development of what is
truly a wealth of artistic talent in our city. Quite frankly, I think both the young
artists and your audiences deserve that and that support is not currently being
offered to them.
8168 It is my opinion, which
is shared by many, that the proposal I am endorsing will make a significant
cultural difference here as it relates to diversifying the radio landscape in
Calgary. It is obvious to me that
this application should be accepted as it would fill a huge void in this
market.
8169 Their proposal to
broadcast modern alternative rock music along with their commitment to support
and develop up and coming local, regional, national Canadian talent would be
welcomed by many Calgarians.
8170 In summary, I feel that
this application put forth by Harvard Broadcasting is extremely important for
the City of Calgary and it is my hope that the CRTC will give this application
very careful consideration and then conclude that making Extreme 92.9 a reality
is the right thing to do. Thank
you.
8171 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Pleau.
8172 Mrs.
Secretary.
8173 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Mr. Harvey Cohen of
The Union Ltd. to make your presentation.
Thank you.
INTERVENTION
8174 MR. COHEN: Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Harvey Cohen and I am an
owner and Director of The Union Ltd. which is one of Canada's largest
independent concerts and events promoters.
8175 We promote concerts and
special events across western Canada in 10 cities and I am here to speak to the
necessity of an alternative music radio station in
Calgary.
8176 Our company focuses a
great deal of our efforts into promoting and building artists that fit into the
alternative music genre. Since
these artists are not currently available on Calgary radio, there should be very
little impact on existing stations currently broadcasting in the city and it
will fill a huge void.
8177 With over 200,000
people in the target demographic in Calgary, there is a huge void in the local
radio market. Calgary is currently
the largest city in Canada still lacking an alternative rock radio station. From large X to small there is a wealth
of artists that are being heard in other cities across Canada on stations like
Sonic 102.9 in Edmonton, CSNY in Toronto, and The Freak in Winnipeg. Canadian artists in particular like
Moneen, The Most Serene Republic, Cuff the Duke, Comeback Kid and The
Constantines are being done a disservice by not being played in our
city.
8178 Canada is on the
leading edge of developing alternative music, breeding artists that are renowned
around the world for their talents yet are not currently heard on Calgary
radio. Canadian bands that fit into
this mould include Broken Social Scene, Stars, Metric, Alexisonfire, Death From
Above 1979, and Controller.Controller, to name a few.
8179 Our company's head
office is in Edmonton and we have seen a marked interest in ticket sales for
concerts that fit into the alternative realm since the launch of Sonic just over
a year ago. Sonic's progressive
play list has been welcomed in Edmonton with open arms, as can be seen in the
latest radio book that shows in one year they have clearly dominated the youth
market, which is the same target demographic that Extreme FM will be catering
to.
8180 The youth of Calgary
are turning off traditional radio and turning to internet and satellite radio
along with downloading in order to hear alternative music that is lacking on the
Calgary radio dial. Bands like
Death Cab for Cutie have the ability to sell 4,000 tickets in Calgary in under
20 minutes but for some reason are not played on radio in the city. Bands like The Used and My Chemical
Romance would be heavily played on a station like Extreme but are not presently
heard. Each of these bands have
sold out arenas in Calgary over the past year.
8181 I could spend the
entire presentation giving you example after example of this but I am going to
narrow my focus down to just one artist.
A great example of a band that is hurt by the lack of alternative radio
in Calgary is the Canadian group Metric, and by comparing their ticket sales in
Calgary and Edmonton over the past three or four years it is proven. The band's last three tours have been
promoted by my company and they show definitive proof that an alternative music
radio station can greatly affect a band's ability to sell
tickets.
8182 In 2004, prior to the
launch of Sonic in Edmonton, Metric sold almost an equal number of tickets in
Calgary and Edmonton, in the area of 450 tickets per city. In mid‑2005, we promoted a Metric tour
that was presented by Sonic in Edmonton and we were able to sell out three shows
there for a total capacity exceeding 1,800 people. Those three shows were sold out more
than a month out from the events and by judging by the demand we could have
easily sold at least another 1,000 tickets. In Calgary, we eventually sold out the
venue of 1,600 tickets for that tour but it took right up until the day of the
concert to do it.
8183 Just this past month,
the union has announced Metric's next tour, which will be coming to western
Canada in April of this year. Both
concerts went on sale at the same time and as of February 20th, which
is more than six weeks from the event, Calgary was sitting at 1,030 tickets sold
while Edmonton has sold over 1,500 more tickets and is currently at 2,547
paid. We give full credit for this
large gap in sales to the positive effect of having commercial radio support in
Edmonton for the concert.
8184 On January
16th of this year, Metric were chosen to open for arguably the
largest band in the world at the most famous arena on the planet when they
opened for The Rolling Stones at Madison Square Gardens in New York City. However, it is still not possible for a
Calgarian to turn on the radio and hear this Canadian band's
music.
8185 In the second week of
January, I took a look at Sonic's play list and noted that 22 of the top 30 spun
songs on that station are not currently played on Calgary commercial radio. Of the 8 remaining songs that are played
in Calgary, I would venture to say a good number of those are in light
rotation.
8186 Marketing budgets for
mid‑size concerts can be quite limiting.
Thus, we must squeeze every nickel out of our advertising. Therefore, it is not cost effective to
purchase advertising on the existing stations for alternative music concerts
because we are lucky to hit 5‑10 per cent of our target audience. Therefore, we have essentially wasted
90‑95 per cent of the radio budget trying to sell an alternative music event to
a largely non‑interested listener.
8187 Even if we are willing
to spend the money on radio, it is generally very difficult to convince current
stations to allocate air time to the event because event advertising is
generally discounted. It seems that
currently there is a lack of inventory compared to the demand for advertising
air time in Calgary.
8188 On a recent event we
held in Calgary, through a sizeable ad buy, we were able to convince a local
station to present a spoken word performance that was somewhat outside of their
normal programming zone. We
purchased a block of air time and received some additional promo time in
exchange for the exclusive radio presents.
8189 After the initial ad
run was utilized, we were forced to reschedule the event to a later date due to
the artist's movie shooting schedule.
It was then necessary to rework our advertising, which included
radio. We were informed by the
station that due to a lack of inventory they couldn't give us any more promo air
time without an additional ad buy.
That was a fair deal and therefore we purchased additional ads costing
several thousand dollars more.
8190 After that ad run had
concluded though, we were informed by the station that time was so tight that
even though we had done the additional ad buy, they could still not provide us
any more promo time and if we needed more time, it would have to be purchased at
full price.
8191 When all was said and
done, we felt that the radio buy for that event was somewhat of a waste because
not only did the station not live up to the expectations we had, considering the
exclusive radio presents, but since no station in Calgary truly captured the
market of the performer, we were trying to hit a narrow field of listeners on
the station while mainly hitting people that didn't care about the
event.
8192 If we had an
alternative rock station in Calgary at the time, our money would have been far
better spent and we would have targeted a much higher percentage of listeners
who would be interested in the event.
8193 The youth of today are
quite similar to the people in the music industry. They are always trying to keep their
finger on the pulse and find things that are hot. In my work, I need to try and keep track
of new music that will develop into the next big thing. It is not possible to do this listening
to music currently being played on commercial radio in Calgary. I spend my days listening to Sonic or
CSNY online or listening to satellite radio in order to research and seek out
new music. It is a shame that I and
countless other Calgarians have to listen to Edmonton radio in order to expand
our musical interests.
8194 The Canadian band, The
Arcade Fire, were picked up by the likes of CSNY and Sonic when their album was
released. However, it took their
Calgary concert selling out in five minutes and their album being certified
platinum before it was even added to the Calgary dial and they are still in very
light rotation. I am at a loss why
a platinum‑selling Canadian artist in only in light rotation in a city that is
obviously very fond of the band by looking at their album and concert ticket
sales.
8195 Since the launch of
Sonic, when deciding what size venues to put alternative concerts into, we
normally look at venues in Edmonton that are twice as big as the venues in
Calgary. This has been a common
theme and even occurs in markets as small as Winnipeg.
8196 On last year's
Alexisonfire tour we were able to secure radio sponsorship in Winnipeg but not
in Calgary. In Calgary we sold
1,750 tickets for the show while the Winnipeg show was so successful that we
have to move it from the original venue to the much larger Winnipeg Convention
Centre to accommodate the 3,000 people that attended. It was our conclusion that without the
support of commercial radio, a city that is just over half the size of Calgary
should not sell 40 per cent more tickets for the same
performance.
8197 An alternative rock
station will present broader options for the promotion of live music in the city
for two reasons, the first being that stations will not be under pressure from
promoters and labels to get behind a performance by an artist that they do not
play. That will open up inventory
for advertisers and event promotion that better fit the station's
focus.
8198 For example, the Punk
Rock Festival The Vans Warped Tour is presented each year by a local radio
station. On average, that station
only plays one or two of the 40‑50 bands showcased every year at the
concert. Looking at last year's
Warped Tour line‑up, the radio sponsor only played one of the 43 performers on
the festival. That is one more band
than any other Calgary station, so thus, they became the best
choice.
8199 However, if you take
that same line‑up and compare it to the proposed play list of Extreme FM and
those of Sonic or CSNY, 10‑20 of those bands would likely see regular
airplay. It is obvious that an
alternative rock station would be a far better choice to present a festival like
this and numerous other concerts every year.
8200 The second reason why
the live music industry, and thus the fans, would benefit from the addition of
an alternative rock station in Calgary is that by opening up more avenues of
promotion each station benefits by being able to devote more air time to
presenting events that better suit their listeners' wants. There is currently a large segment of
the city's population that is being underserved by the radio options they are
given. Alternative rock radio
promotes to a clearly identifiable and distinct audience that is not being well
served currently.
8201 This format has proven
its worth across North America, all the way from K‑Rock in Los Angeles to Sonic
in Edmonton, and I believe that it is time Calgarians had the opportunity to
enjoy alternative rock on local airwaves.
8202 In conclusion, I want
to reiterate The Union's support of Harvard Broadcasting's application for
Extreme FM to bring alternative rock radio to the listeners of Calgary. Thank you.
8203 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Cohen.
8204 Mrs.
Secretary.
8205 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Blayne Crowchild to
present his intervention.
INTERVENTION
8206 MR. CROWCHILD: Hello. Good afternoon. My name is Blayne. I work for Husky Energy in the support
for engineering and project management.
I am a born and raised Calgarian and a radio listener and there is no
radio of this format in Calgary. I
am in support of this application from Harvard
Broadcasting.
8207 I am always listening
to streaming alternative rock radio from the U.S., therefore, not listening to
Canadian radio. I am tired of all
the fossil rock from CJ107 Jack Eagle.
It is severely unacceptable to have four stations playing classic rock in
Calgary. I have bought stereos for
my car and the alternative rock from it is from the United States
also.
8208 Tegan and Sara is the
Calgary‑born duo who had no support here and had to relocate to flourish. A certain radio station would not touch
them and they became more played on U.S. radio than in Calgary because this
certain station wants to play nine minutes of Peter Frampton or some Doobie
Brothers song.
8209 I want to hear new rock
from up and coming Canadian bands such as The Arcade Fire, Broken Social Scene,
Spice, New Pornographers, Train Wreck, Metric, and many, many more. I want to hear nineties Canadian bands
such as the Gandharvas, Pure, The Doughboys, and many more that certain other
stations would not touch with a 10‑foot pole.
8210 Save the Overplay, Tom
Cochrane, Colin James and Guess Who for the other four
stations.
8211 I have also noted that
we already have light and adults in easy listening in the city. We also have a cultural station
too. Once again, there is no radio
of this format in Calgary.
8212 I am severely in
support of this application. Thank
you.
8213 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Crowchild.
8214 Mrs.
Secretary.
8215 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Ashley‑Rae
Snape. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
8216 MS SNAPE: Hi. My name is Ashley‑Rae Snape. I am the Vice‑President of Academics and
Student Affairs for the U of C Students' Association and I am also born and
raised Canadian.
8217 Take a good look at
me. I am the stereotype. I have got facial piercings, dyed black
hair, I dress in layers. Tegan and
Sara went to my high school. I
listen to The Cure, The Smiths. I
have seen Metric three times. I am
what this audience is.
8218 Since I started
spreading the word about this radio station, I have spoken with students at the
U of C, ACAD and State as well as many friends and an online community, My
Face. Everyone I have spoken to
thinks that an alternative station for Calgary is completely logical and needed
and that is what makes this so hard to speak to, is because I do think that it
is just so logical.
8219 I don't play
music. I don't sing. I am solely a consumer. I spend $50 to $100 a month on CDs and
that is being extremely careful with my budget. I stopped listening to Calgary radio
about three or four years ago. My
ideal radio situation is a station that can play stuff that I know and love,
plus introduce me to new music.
This state exists for adult contemporary, pop and pop rock in Calgary but
it doesn't for alternative rock and there is such a huge scene of alternative
rock in Calgary.
8220 I would say I spend
about 10 to 12 hours a day listening to music. Whether it be from my commute, at work,
in the morning, before bed, when I
do listen to radio, I listen to online radio, Indie 103 out of California and
Roxy out of Cincinnati. Any ads
that I hear are for the States, any shows that I want to go see are in the
States and any contests are for people from the United
States.
8221 Right now for
alternative and independent music in Calgary, people are forced to scrounge
online, look at record labels, concert promoters. They actually have to work to listen to
this kind of music and they do it.
There is a huge scene for it.
Imagine how much that would expand if it was easily accessible to
everyone. Not only would a local
alternative station thrive in Calgary but it would also bring a lot of business
to local businesses, venues, promoters and record stores.
8222 The Calgary music
scene ‑‑ and I apologize now to the promoters that are here ‑‑ is
known as the joke of the country for this scene. I have travelled from Vancouver to
Montreal since May with my job, I have networked with students and student
leaders and they often mention the state of music in Calgary as all the student
unions and student associations book bands at their
schools.
8223 I have heard other
bands making fun of the Calgary music scene and I have had many, many
conversations about why no big bands come from Calgary. The last big band to break out that I
can think of was Zuckerbaby and that was in 1997 and they lasted for about a
year.
8224 I spend a lot of time
and money going to different venues in the city, scoping out local bands on the
internet and I found no lack of talent or creativity. All I found is a lack of support,
especially from the current radio stations, and I personally know people who
have petitioned the leading rock station in Calgary to play more independent
music, to play more local artists and have received no
response.
8225 I spent a seven‑hour
car ride from Vernon to Calgary talking with a co‑worker about the state of
music in Calgary and we thought maybe it was just us, maybe it was just our
circles that were into this kind of music.
That was the night of the Snow Patrol Show here in Calgary and there was
at least 3,000 youth singing along to a band that gets no airplay in
Calgary.
8226 If you look at the
success of shows at McEwan Hall or at the gate or if you even walk into any high
school in Calgary, you will see the stereotyping, you will see the need for this
radio station.
8227 Alternative and Indie
fans are truly a community in Calgary where the station would spread through the
community faster than anyone could imagine. People are already talking about
this.
8228 In May I went up to
Edmonton, and as a true Calgarian I have always had a disdain for Edmonton, and
I discovered that I actually covet something that Edmonton has, Sonic, their
radio station. I spent my whole
time there attached to a radio because I was just amazed that this actually
exists in Canada and I am appalled that it is not in Calgary
yet.
8229 Wouldn't it be great if
all the people with tastes similar to mine, which are a lot, wouldn't have to
leave town or go to the U.S. media for good music? That is what Extreme 92.9 is
offering.
8230 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs.
Snape.
8231 Mrs. Helen del
Val.
8232 COMMISSIONER DEL
VAL: Thank you for your
interventions. This question is for
Ms Schuiling, Mr. Crowchild and Ms Snape.
8233 You obviously listen to
your music from the U.S. from your iPods and from the computer. Now, what about, say, local news and
what we call spoken word programming; do you look for that when you are
listening? Do you miss it and do
you want to hear that?
8234 MS SCHUILING: Hi. I am actually a big news and political
junkie. So I actually do listen to
a local radio station, CHQR, quite regularly and also CBC. That is the only radio station that I do
listen to. As far as music, I do
not listen to any Calgary radio station.
8235 MR. CROWCHILD: For me, I do miss it. Yes, I would like to hear local
traffic. I would like to hear local
news but the only local news that I usually get is from TV. The 6 o'clock news, that is how I get
it. I would prefer to hear it
during my work day. I think I know
more of what is happening in local Toronto than I do in local Calgary, I think,
and I know more about the streets in Toronto than I do in Calgary, it
seems. So yes, I do miss
it.
8236 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank
you.
8237 MS SNAPE: I'm a broadcast news student, or I was,
I graduated in April and, yes, news is my life but I do have access to news
wires and I watch Calgary TV news.
8238 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: But not from the radio
signal?
8239 MS SNAPE: Not from the radio, but I do miss it
because I love the radio format, I love the 60‑second spots, I love the
true‑to‑point dirty news, I don't...
8240 Thank
you.
8241 COMMISSIONER del
VAL: Thank
you.
8242 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Langford.
8243 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I wanted to ask you a
question, Mr. Cohen, which I put to one of the other ‑‑ well, a couple, and
they're not an event planner, but at least in another aspect of this whole music
business.
8244 We've heard you loud
and clear, by the way, so it's not that I'm ignoring your message and going to
something else.
8245 But is there anything
else missing in the way of a type of music in Calgary?
8246 MR. COHEN: Obviously there are, you know, really
small genres, such that they may not be overly formatted right now, but in terms
of a large demographic, I don't think anything is missing to the point that
alternative rock is at this point, you know, everything from the CKUAs, all the
way up to the Cjs, you know, are hitting a fairly wide demographic and I think
right now that alternative is the one that's really
missing.
8247 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Because we have ‑‑
and I might put this to you as well, Mr. Crowchild, once I'm finished with Mr.
Cohen ‑‑ because you mentioned that you can get easy listening in Calgary
now, but we've got ‑‑ gosh, there's so many of them I've lost
control ‑‑ three or four applications by serious broadcasters ‑‑ not
serious like satellite Sirius but serious.
8248 MR. CROWCHILD: Mm‑hmm.
8249 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Serious broadcasters who
are telling us that ‑‑ God, it's getting harder and harder to speak, almost
every word's been turned into a brand ‑‑ that they're telling us that
there's a big hole there, that radio did at one time carry this kind of stuff,
but format changes have left it in the dust.
8250 Are you telling me that
that's not so, that you can ‑‑ if you have an appetite for Frank Sinatra
and all the rest of it, that you can find it here on the
radio?
8251 MR. COHEN: At this point I believe you can. A number of the AM stations, you know,
are playing into the oldies all the way, you know, across the
board.
8252 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I
see.
8253 MR. COHEN: And I don't believe that at any time
there's been a serious ‑‑ if I'm not mistaking the direction you were
taking, that alternative perhaps was played at one point and due to format changes no longer
is.
8254 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Well, they
changed ‑‑ yeah, they change with breathtaking speed sometimes, but what
we've heard here this week is that there was some of this 40 ‑‑ 30, what is
it, 35 to 135 demographic stuff played but they've switched their formats, it's
no longer available.
8255 Mr. ‑‑ bling, I've
lost your last name ‑‑ Crowchild, you said you have heard it on the radio;
do you think it's ‑‑
8256 MR. CROWCHILD: There is a Clear F ‑‑ or California
103 is something like that we already have here, there's light 96 also and we
also have a religious one on ‑‑ that plays light music as well and that
kind of area, and there's a cultural 104 something I believe it
is.
8257 So, this is ‑‑
like I said, this is the only application where we don't have this format in the
city. I really
would ‑‑
8258 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Sorry, we heard this
story in Halifax last year, it's not a new story.
8259 What about what CHUM
calls Hot AC, 25‑44 demographic; from your experience is that available here in
Calgary?
8260 MR. CROWCHILD: 598.
8261 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I beg your
pardon?
8262 MR. CROWCHILD: 598, we have here for
that.
8263 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you. Mr. Cohen, do you feel
that's...
8264 MR. COHEN: I ‑‑ Hot AC is ‑‑ I wouldn't
say is available here right now.
There's portions of it, like Mr. Crowchild was saying, 598.5 does play
some of the Hot AC tracks, however, there is no formatted Hot AC station right
now.
8265 But I would say that,
as you were saying, with frequent format changes there have been Hot AC stations
in Calgary over the last five years, but obviously the economics of it haven't
worked because these stations have been getting out of them fairly
quickly.
8266 The Peak 107.3 was the
best example of this, but it didn't last very long at all.
8267 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I guess my last question
would be to Tammy Schuiling.
8268 I suspect you have
contact lenses and a whole different wardrobe somewhere hidden away at home, but
I won't go there, as my kids say.
8269 Though there is an
enthusiastic set of Calgarians like yourself who by day are Lois Lane and by
night are ‑‑ I don't know, Johnny Rotten's evil twin or something ‑‑
is there enough to carry a whole commercial radio
station?
8270 I mean, they're
expensive to run, commercial radio stations, and you can't run them on an
audience of a few thousand people.
8271 Is there enough
interest out there to carry this format?
8272 MS SCHUILING: I believe that there is. I mean, if you look at the viable
businesses in the community that would cater specifically to this demographic
such as The Source, Snowboard Shop and Mission, various clothing retailers, et
cetera, and they're springing up all over the place and it's catering
specifically not only to this age demographic but also to the culture, it's a
lifestyle.
8273 And, like I said, it
starts young, of course ‑‑ maybe I'm just a little immature for my 36
years ‑‑ but there are, I can count numerous people that, like me, have
grown up with this type of music and would also enjoy listening to
it.
8274 So, yes, I think
there's a huge demand for it.
You'll see just from the business community alone how it caters to this
lifestyle.
8275 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Mr. Cohen, do you want to
add something?
8276 MR. COHEN: Yeah, I wouldn't
mind.
8277 The question of whether
the market is large enough, I think is definitely there even just based on
looking what, say, Sonic has done in Edmonton in one year.
8278 You know, I believe
their last book came out and they had a 5.7 share, I believe it is and, you know, that alone, what they've done
in a year is higher than what Harvard has, you know, expected that they would
need to be doing to make this viable.
8279 So, I think ‑‑ you
know, I've been referring back to Sonic a lot and, you know, it's just I think
there's such a strong belief in what I've seen them do in Edmonton, as I spend a
lot of time up there with an office there, that this market ‑‑ that there's
definitely a market there, without question.
8280 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you very much. We're going to send Commissioner
Williams up there this weekend, he's going to scout that whole scene out for
us. We'll get a full report on
Monday.
8281 Those are my questions,
Mr. Chair.
8282 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman ‑‑ Mr.
Langford.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
8283 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: I like it. Don't stop, I like it, I like
it.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
8284 MR. WILLIAMS: And I was going to let it
go.
8285 THE CHAIRPERSON: And thank you for your
appearance.
8286 We will now move to the
next group of intervenors.
8287 Mrs.
Secretary.
8288 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8289 I would just like to
say for the record that the following two intervenors will not be appearing,
although they are mentioned on the agenda, and it is Mr. Ken Beck, Mayor of the
Town of Cochrane, intervention No. 44, as well as intervention 195, Rickles Pub
& Grub.
8290 So, now I would like to
call upon Mr. Ken Hynes, Deputy‑Mayor, Town of Cochrane to come forward, as well
as Jim Hughes and Stu Bradley.
8291 I would like to call on
Mr. Ken Hynes, Deputy‑Mayor of the Town of Cochrane to make his presentation and
you will have 10 minutes.
8292 Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
8293 MR. HYNES: Thank you very much, Madam
Secretary.
8294 Mr. Chairman, members
of the Commission, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Ken Hynes and, as the
Secretary mentioned, I am the Deputy‑Mayor of the Town of Cochrane, I'm serving
my first term as an elected official.
8295 After serving some 30
years as an officer in the Canadian Army, I retired a couple of years ago and
thought I might be able to make a difference in my community and that's why I'm
sitting here ‑‑ one of the reasons why I'm sitting before you here
today.
8296 A little bit about my
background, before I get into the meat of the
presentation.
8297 I ‑‑ and I'm
mentioning this for a specific reason which will become apparent later
on.
8298 I have graduate degrees
in business administration and organizational conflict management, and the
reason that I'm mentioning that at this stage before I get into the meat is that
you have had before you earlier today, and perhaps yesterday, some statistical
data related to whether or not Mr. Tiessen's ‑‑ Tiessen Media's proposal
would actually be ‑‑ if Cochrane would actually be able to support
radio.
8299 Well, it doesn't come
as any surprise that I do support Tiessen Media's application as has been
presented to you earlier, that's item No. 11.
8300 The statistical data
that I'm referring to is the Mark Kassof & Company, Success Strategies for
Radio ‑‑ and I won't go into any great detail there, except to say that
when you're basing statistical information on 250 telephone interviews for a
population size in excess of 45,000 people, that represents less than one per
cent of the population and to get any statistical accuracy, I think I would
respectfully remind the Commission that relying on this kind of data one should
do so with that in mind.
8301 We recently completed a
community survey in Cochrane where every household, some 5,000 of them, were in
receipt of a survey questionnaire with a 25 per cent return rate, we were able
to get data which was 97 per cent accurate 19 times out of
20.
8302 So, one can see how
this small number may not reflect accurately the interest that exists in my town
and the 13,500 people who live there on whether or not we could, in fact,
sustain a radio station.
8303 Now, a little bit about
Cochrane. I've already told you the
size of the town. We're proud of
our western heritage and we embrace the future.
8304 We are a community
where people of vision are striving to build a community of choice for future
generations.
8305 I'm not here to talk
about the employment of musicians, market share or any technical questions
because they have been more than adequately covered by other
presenters.
8306 They are all important,
of course, but I'm hoping that what I'm here to do, which is to speak about
public service and the needs ‑‑ legitimate needs and wants of the 13,500
people who live in my town, is an issue that is also equally
important.
8307 And there are three key
areas that I would like to touch upon with that context here this
afternoon.
8308 First, with respect to
Cochrane as a community. Presently
there are two local newspapers that strive to meet the needs of the various
community groups in Cochrane.
8309 The challenge here is
in getting timely information out, of course, as the newspapers are published on
a weekly basis. It is a rarity that
our community events are promoted by Calgary radio stations, we are not
Calgary.
8310 Those events that
attract the Calgary stations are typically high profile in nature with a
newsworthy edge to them. In most
instances, the coverage is of the actual event and not the promotion leading up
to that event.
8311 The only alternative is
to look to paid radio advertising within the Calgary area which, in most cases,
for our smaller community groups, is extremely
cost‑prohibitive.
8312 Tiessen Media has
indicated that their proposal will have strong community focus. In fact, Mr. Tiessen has done a
significant amount of legwork in both the Airdrie and Cochrane area to see
whether or not there is support for his proposal.
8313 And I can assure you,
because I've been talking about this thing for over two months now to hundreds
of people in my community, and I can count on one hand the number of people who
don't believe that we need electronic media in our
community.
8314 The second point is one
related to economic development. We
value our local businesses and their ability to succeed, but they're faced with
many challenges, one of which is promoting sales in a timely
manner.
8315 The reliance on weekly
newspapers and direct mail is not an optimal solution in meeting their needs of
reaching customers. Affordable
radio advertising would allow businesses to focus on their various target
audiences.
8316 Tiessen Media has
proposed very cost‑effective advertising which will be complimentary with the
existing methods used at the moment.
8317 Just an aside. If we're going to talk about
demographics, and we're talking more than just music, we're talking about news
and other aspects of radio communication and, from a Cochrane standpoint, I'm
looking at age demographics between 12 and 112, so there's a wide variety of
interest out there in different aspects, and I think that Tiessen's proposal is
quite effective in the sense that it proposes an eclectic mixture of both news
programming and musical programming of all types.
8318 The final, perhaps what
I think anyway is one of the most important issues, is the Town of Cochrane as a
corporate organization and its needs.
8319 And, as a corporation,
we are continually looking at ways in which we can communicate better with our
residents.
8320 A prime example of this
occurred in June last year where we experienced significant issues related to
the floods that happened here in the Province of Alberta.
8321 Had we had a local
radio station, residents would have known they could tune in to get
up‑to‑the‑minute messaging regarding the flood situation and things that they
could do to make themselves and their families safe and perhaps also to offer
whatever assistance they could to the municipal officials.
8322 Additionally, we
believe that this method of communication will significantly contribute to
improve attendance at such things as public hearings, town‑sponsored events and
our new regime of community engagement sessions.
8323 Communications aside,
small communities that sit on the fringe of larger centres such as Calgary face
similar challenges, whether they be Okotoks, Cochrane, Airdrie ‑‑ which is
our sister municipality in this presentation, or in this proposal ‑‑ Black
Diamond, you name it, each of them have unique characteristics, they are not
Calgary and, therefore, have unique requirements.
8324 To address this we, as
a group of municipalities though, have taken a regional approach to many issues
with the formation of what we call the Calgary Regional
Partnership.
8325 In some ways I see this
way of doing business as being appropriate when one views this kind of
application.
8326 We have three major
municipalities that possibly benefit from this regional view, the Town of
Cochrane, the City of Airdrie, as I have mentioned already, and also the larger
Municipal District of Rocky View which surrounds the City of
Calgary.
8327 Essentially, without
the benefit of a radio station, there are three very large communities as a
whole who do not have a voice and no way of providing up‑to‑the‑minute
information to their citizens.
8328 We are hopeful that you
will look kindly on and approve Tiessen Media's application for a radio station
as it will, indeed, fill a long and overdue need in our
communities.
8329 Thank you very much for
your time and attention, ladies and gentlemen.
8330 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Hynes.
8331 Mrs.
Secretary.
8332 THE SECRETARY: I now call upon Mr. Jim Hughes to
present your intervention.
8333 Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
8334 MR. HUGHES: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners and ladies and gentlemen, I appreciate being here. I forgot my hat.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
8335 MR. HUGHES: Actually, my background, if I may, which
I feel somewhat helps qualify me to address this hearing, a 40‑year veteran of
radio and television, starting in Lloydminster in 1966, went to Lethbridge in
'67 and then came to Calgary in 1969 and have been a broadcaster on both radio
and television here in Calgary since 1969, for some 37
years.
8336 I'm very familiar with
the market, it's my hometown, I'm very familiar with the two towns that we're
discussing here, Airdrie and Cochrane.
8337 I'm also, from a
perspective of being employed in the broadcast business, I'm very familiar with
the decisions that the CRTC has made over the years, the changes in
radio.
8338 I'm also familiar with
how the basic atmosphere of radio and structure of radio has changed in the city
and how the city has changed and grown with it.
8339 This is a very
important application to me for a number of reasons. First of all, during the 37 years that
I've worked here in the City of Calgary, let me tell you that a few years ago I
met a young man who was 15 years of age and at that time was attending a high
school in a small town comparable to both Airdrie and
Cochrane.
8340 This young man was the
treasurer of his school council, he was also a director of the jazz band, he
was ‑‑ I loved his enthusiasm, his intensity, his honesty, and at the age
of 15 I felt he was quite mature beyond his years.
8341 And I think that goes
without saying when you look at the applicant at the age of 19 years old, runs
for political office in Okotoks and becomes a councillor and is now in his
second term, first term starting when he was 19 years of
age.
8342 I think that the
fact ‑‑ and my support for this application I will try and channel through
my respect for this young man and his intent ‑‑the fact that he's been a
councillor in Okotoks and in his second term, being in that position it would be
difficult for a lot of people to be in that position and have the maturity to
listen to problems, to associate themselves with a town of that
size.
8343 If the businesses have
a problem they go to Town Council, if there is an emergency they go to Town
Council. And this young man is
capable and has ‑‑ he's capable of listening, addressing and learning. In this learning experience he's also
grown and, as you can see in his application, has formed Tiessen
Media.
8344 With the formation of
this Tiessen Media, produces, sells, puts together a network of Chuckwagon
broadcasts, which is not what you call mainstream radio by any stretch of the
imagination, but he serves a number of very small markets right across Alberta
which is, I think, very commendable.
8345 I think it shows me a
little bit of entrepeneurialship (sic), I think it shows me that the young man
does his homework and that he can find the confidence of business people, which
I think is very important, and the other thing is that he has a total passion
for radio.
8346 The one thing about the
application ‑‑ without going into the fact that we all know, it goes
without saying, that there are number of national ‑‑ well‑respected
national broadcasting companies that control most of the signals and many of the
major markets across Canada and they do a wonderful job in doing what they
do.
8347 It's a totally
different game, they're competing for points, they want the ratings, they want
the sales within those major centres, and this application is the furthest
thing, it's the other end of the spectrum in terms of its
intent.
8348 We're not ‑‑ in
this application, Mr. Tiessen is not intending on trying to get ratings, he's
not trying to impact the City of Calgary whatsoever. And when I said 'we're', I should
preface this whole situation and my support with the fact that I have no
business interest whatsoever or employment interest whatsoever with Tiessen
Media.
8349 To go on, I feel that I
would love to see him at least get your consideration and serious consideration,
because the fact the two other applicants are most respected, do a wonderful
job, they have several stations across Western Canada and, of course, we all
know in Newfoundland.
8350 But the situation, they
also have a great deal of experience in doing applications with the CRTC, in
preparing the applications, they know what to say, they know who to say it to,
they know what the CRTC has done in previous judgments, and they have probably
an assumed respect to some degree from people who make the
decisions.
8351 Now, this young man is
brand new at it. In his
application, I went through his application and it may not be as polished as
some, I think it's very respectful.
I would like to see it taken seriously because, in my opinion, the
Tiessen Media application would be the underdog in ‑‑ overall in
this.
8352 But, that being said,
the application is one thing, the more important aspect of it is what is he
going to do should he be approved?
Can this man follow ‑‑ can he follow up his intent? Will he take the intent of his
application and apply it and actually develop the station as he has specified he
would like to?
8353 What I love to see in
his ‑‑ what he's intending on doing, what I love to see is radio serving a
community, the roots of the broadcasting industry once again being planted in
the communities which they serve.
8354 This is the way it was
when I started in 1966. Radio to me
has become a little less intimate, a little less personal, far more signals and
far more competitive. I really
would love to see the opportunity of a locally owned and operated and managed
broadcasting outlet that was actually deeply rooted in the community that it is
serving.
8355 I know this man deeply,
I know what he's done in Okotoks, I know what he will do in Cochrane and
Airdrie. I like the fact that it's
a double action coming out of Airdrie and serving Cochrane as well. They're different communities but
they're vibrant, they're expanding, they're growing, and I feel there's a
definite need to have a service within these two towns ‑‑ Airdrie a city
and Cochrane a town ‑‑ I think that there is a definite need and it needs
the right person to do it.
8356 And the most important
aspect to me of this particular request that Mr. Tiessen could possibly pursue
his ambitions and his passion, is the fact that I think that it's got the
local ‑‑ the rural aspect to it, the moneys that ‑‑ it would be very
difficult. It's already to the
stage where he's even applied, it has cost him countless hours and who knows the
money it's cost him, but I know his determination, his integrity and I know from
what I've seen from his business capacity that he will fulfil what you are
expecting of him.
8357 And the moneys that
would be earned would stay within the community and would support the
community.
8358 I think he's a
marvellous candidate and, with the utmost respect to the other applicants,
they've done very well, but I would love to see and would appreciate your
consideration for this man's efforts in this endeavour.
8359 Thank you very
much.
8360 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Hughes.
8361 Mrs.
Secretary.
8362 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Chairman, the last appearing
intervention today will be presented by Mr. Stu Bradley.
8363 Mr. Bradley, you have
10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
8364 MR. BRADLEY: Thank you very
kindly.
8365 Well, needless to say,
I think we've covered most of the concepts and ideas that come to mind and,
simply, I was impressed by the fact that I've been connected and close to radio
for over 40 years, so that you have a sense and a feeling for what radio can and
does do and has changed immensely over that period of
time.
8366 This young fellow came
into Cochrane and impressed us because, No. 1, he canvassed the business people
and we thought what an outgoing situation that is. He was willing to go out, like a
politician and say, listen, this is who I am, this is what I represent, and I'd
like to bring FM radio to your town, how do you like me so
far?
8367 We thought that was an
impressive and a neat approach to take.
We also invited him to the world famous A&W meeting room. That doesn't happen in every area,
but it happens in Cochrane, if you wear a cowboy hat, it's even
better.
8368 We said, let's listen
to this kid and see what he's got to offer and where we're going with this FM
radio. He did so and he impressed
us.
8369 Mr. Hughes has related
to the fact that at 19 years of age, very few young people want to become
politically involved and I can't understand anybody at that young age taking on
the responsibilities of a town councillor and being
successful.
8370 So, that impressed the
group of us sitting around. Said,
here's a young fellow who seems to have some insights, some drive, some
initiative. And that's
important. I think that that is one
of the factors that we're looking for in terms of young people with young
enthusiasm.
8371 And we said, well,
let's listen him out. He, as I say,
he did a review of his intent and he also took that to the business people and
made sure that they knew and understand that there was a possibility of FM radio
coming to Cochrane.
8372 What I've sensed over
the many, many years I've been sort of directly and indirectly involved in radio
is the fact that it is amazing what radio can do for a community and when you're
directly connected, and over the years I've had an opportunity of actually sort
of marrying a community to a radio station and that makes a huge
difference. Your event takes on and
immense approach and difference and so much success that you have, obviously,
relates to the fact that you are closely connected to a radio
station.
8373 In one instance in an
event that we were producing in a community just west of Calgary, and because of
the contact we had with media, it was an air show presentation and that
particular Saturday afternoon I was buoyed by the fact that the local television
people came to me who were just starting at that time to get into the world of
using helicopters and said, Mr. Bradley, we're here to report you, you stopped
traffic all the way from your airport two lanes solid, and that's about 11 to 12
miles back to the Foothills Hospital in
Calgary.
8374 A huge reach, a huge
impact, and it tells you that there is tremendous support for that kind of
thing, that taught me many, many years ago that there is a reach and an
understanding of how a community and radio become a
partner.
8375 And in so doing, that's
what we're looking for. I think
that Mr. Tiessen has done all of the homework and his plan is to try and bring
the community of Cochrane where I live, at a plane, a level with the other
communities that surround it.
8376 We know that we're
somewhat behind insomuch as the other towns that surround us already have FM
radio and, in many cases, we don't know about that because their reach is
limited and you don't hear their signal coming out our
way.
8377 However, I sense in
travelling north of Cochrane that their radio station in that area has been
immensely successful and the reach is basic, and I like that. I thought, my God, here we are back to
the old tradio, when's the last time you heard of that concept, and yet it's
very important in a community and there's a sense of reality in going back to
that level.
8378 What we noticed that
radio now in Cochrane because of its huge growth and it's considered to be one
of the, if not the fastest growing towns in the nation. So, that buoys us to know and understand
that there's an importance and it covers such things as the growth and expansion
of your community and that includes, of course, things like schools, things like
churches and the business opportunity that's growing,
expanding.
8379 When the big box store
comes to your town, it's a pretty major event and those are the kinds of things
we know and sense are happening in Cochrane.
8380 Sporting events, and
we're very proud of that fact. When
a young lad that you've had on the football field at your local high school has
been escalating to the point where the coach in Western Michigan State is
tapping on his shoulder and telling him, son, you'll be expected to lead this
team from this college through the gateway at the stadium in Florida and there
will be a hundred thousand people in those stands, is a pretty major
move.
8381 And we think, isn't
that worth covering, that you have a boy right in your town that has reached
that level. We think it's important
and worth coming forward with.
8382 The music, art and all
of those things, they were alluded to here many, many times over today. It gives you an opportunity of sensing
that your local radio station can cover those kinds of things where, normally
speaking, when you're in a market of a million people, they don't do that kind
of thing.
8383 We're hopeful that we
can see and sense that local musicians will get a chance to do some programming
and to be recognized by this local station.
8384 The agricultural side
of things which is important to us and the reasons that we're wearing these
cowboy hats today is because people don't realize when you get into a crisis
situation and the BSE is coming down on the people who are outside maybe of your
town area, but their lives are being impacted to the point where they're losing
their businesses, where they're not selling trucks in your town or businesses
are suffering because of a major, major impact as far as agriculture is
concerned, it becomes a very, very related newsworthy item that affects your
town.
8385 It certainly did ours
and I can assure you that that reached international level in terms of
recognizing that particular concern.
8386 The local coverage is
important. We're in a low‑lying
area and it may not seem important to others around us, but if you have a
three‑foot snowfall that comes down on the city and the Town of Cochrane, you
don't leave, you don't get up the hills, you don't get out, so all of a sudden
those kind of things become extremely important and local news coverage is an
important factor.
8387 It was alluded to
today, it's not all about music, it's about what's happening in your town and
how you can sort of overcome those kinds of problems.
8388 They were talking about
demographics and I think Councillor Hynes alluded to the fact that our
demographic includes things right from the bottom end, the elementary school
children and how that snow day and that impact affects them and their
parents.
8389 The baby boomers who
don't commute and won't be leaving our town unless you know the kind of things
that are happening in the world of weather and those very basic concepts. It becomes important to us to know those
kinds of things.
8390 And to our seniors'
groups that won't be going to their meetings and their events because of those
kinds of events.
8391 So, the music, the news
and all those kinds of coverages that you get in radio sort of cover a spectrum
of people who are involved in the local community‑type
broadcasting.
8392 None of the
aforementioned is certainly new or revealing to anybody in this room, I'm sure
that they're well aware of all of these coverages. All we're saying is that we think that
Cochrane is a very vibrant, fast‑growing community that probably has missed out
in some regards to getting an opportunity to see local radio in our
community.
8393 It ties nicely with the
City of Airdrie, the Town of Cochrane and the MD as it was already
aforementioned. We have a very
strong demographic that ties very, very unique group of people together and on
that basis that we strongly suggest that the Board consider the application by
Tiessen Media to consider FM radio for the Town of
Cochrane.
8394 Thank
you.
8395 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Bradley.
8396 Well, I am very happy
to see two cowboys wearing hats. We
spend the week here and you are the first two that we
see...
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
8397 THE CHAIRPERSON: So, we are coming from the east where we
never see them, and we spend the week, nobody was wearing their hat. But, finally, at the last day of the
first week ‑‑ maybe the people coming from Lethbridge next week will all
have a hat, but...
8398 MR. BRADLEY: No, they won't.
8399 THE CHAIRPERSON: But I am very happy at seeing
this.
8400 MR. BRADLEY: Actually, I appreciate
that.
8401 THE CHAIRPERSON: A word to Mr. Hughes, I think Mr.
Tiessen, to say the least, made a very strong presentation yesterday, highly
professional for a young man and I think his application is certainly at the
same level as the others that we have heard this week.
8402 I will leave it now to
Mr. Langford to put some questions to you and I may have one after, if he
doesn't ask it.
8403 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
8404 First of all, I'm sure
my colleagues join me, I wanted to thank you for your patience. I think you spent a lot of time here
waiting and it can be annoying to wait, but it's a further show of confidence in
this applicant, because not all intervenors go the distance, and for the
Deputy‑Mayor and busy people like yourselves who have busy lives to spend that
amount of time sitting on these chairs to say your piece, kind of magnifies what
you're telling us times two, as far as I'm concerned.
8405 I want to echo what
Chairman Arpin says, that the presentation yesterday was immensely professional
and very original and, you know, to try and tie in two communities like that,
come up with a solution, serve both communities, it shows some
foresight.
8406 The problem is ‑‑
and I want to be candid, you've been candid with us ‑‑ and the problem is
going to go like this: Because Mr.
Tiessen is not Bill Gates and because the type of programming you really want is
community reflection, that's what you really want ‑‑ I mean, you'll get
some music, I'm listening to you, that's what you're telling me, you want
community reflection here ‑‑ that means that you're asking really for the
most expensive type of programming, because local reflection requires people to
go out.
8407 You can't just get one
DJ putting on a bunch of canned music, you've got to go out, you've got to talk
to the people, you've got to bring back the stories, you've got to record the
stories, you've got to get them on the air.
8408 So, you're asking Mr.
Tiessen for a lot, which means ‑‑ I don't want it to sound like I'm
lecturing you, even though I am, but I'm sorry I do sound like it, but I want to
spell it out.
8409 If you want Mr.
Tiessen, because I suspect he's not Bill Gates, you're going to have to support
him, the Town of Cochrane is going to have to get behind this project and with
money. I mean, people are going to
have to advertise right from the get‑go on this station, because you need deep
pockets to run a station and if you don't bring in bags of money, somebody's got
to help you earn it and earn it fast.
8410 And you folks are,
gosh, Mr. Hynes, you've got a degree in business, you know what I'm
saying.
8411 So, I just would like
to have from you, Mr. Hynes, perhaps Mr. Bradley ‑‑ whoever wants to see
it ‑‑ just a realistic sense of how much support there is, how many
businesses will reach into their pockets and advertise on this
station.
8412 MR. HYNES: Well, thank you very much for the
question.
8413 It's difficult to put
an absolute number on that answer.
I can only give you anecdotal evidence from my conversations with people
in my community and, as I said, I think it's part of my presentation, there is
clear support for this initiative in the Town of Cochrane.
8414 There is clear support
for this initiative by some very significant business owners in the Town of
Cochrane, and I think that the work Mr. Tiessen has done, physically campaigning
as it were within the municipal boundaries of Town of Cochrane and in Airdrie
and other places, I think has helped to generate that level of
support.
8415 So, unless I have a
crystal ball in front of me, it's often difficult to project whether or not this
will be successful.
8416 But I'm confident,
given what I know of Mr. Tiessen and his drive and what he's accomplished in his
life and what he hopes to accomplish with this, that he will be successful and I
think it is young entrepreneurs such as himself that really need the support of
agencies like the CRTC.
8417 And I believe
wholeheartedly that the CRTC has a public responsibility to ensure that
community‑based radio lives and thrives in our country.
8418 And if there's a young
man out there who has the foresight, the drive, the initiative to put something
like this forward, then I think we owe it to him to give him a
chance.
8419 This is the land of
opportunity out here in Alberta, a lot of people say that. Well, it's absolutely
true.
8420 People like Mr.
Tiessen, they pick themselves up by the boot straps and they succeed through
hard work and grit, determination, and I really believe that this young man will
be successful.
8421 And, beyond that,
there's very little that I can say to you, sir.
8422 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: You said it all. We hear you. Thank you very
much.
8423 That's my questions,
Mr. Chair.
8424 THE CHAIRPERSON: My question is to any one of the three,
or you may pick up...
8425 The two other
applicants didn't say that Cochrane ‑‑ they said Cochrane is a community by
itself and very distinct than Airdrie and both localities deserve to have their
own radio stations, but the two other applicants were not saying that they were
ready now to go to Airdrie and at a future date they may come back with
applications for Cochrane, and their argument was that Airdrie and Cochrane were
very distinct communities and they were not really meshing between the
two.
8426 Do you have comments on
that?
8427 MR. BRADLEY: I might want to make a comment, because
I said to Mr. Tiessen, I'll be honest with you, Mr. Tiessen, our sincere
interest is in our town naturally because we're from the Town of Cochrane, we
have a distinct difference between Cochrane and Airdrie, and certainly if there
was an application available and the Board would consider that, I think that
we're at a point where we're going from 13,000 as we speak now to, give us six
months and we're soon going to be at 18,000 and growing
immensely.
8428 So, I said and
truthful, we would certainly like to look favourably at the opportunity of
having a radio station in our own town.
So, you can understand that.
8429 His application was
based, I think, and the numbers were put together on the basis of the two areas,
and I think the economics obviously indicated that that would be the way to
go.
8430 But truly, we know that
in the area that towns smaller than Cochrane are extremely successful and simply
because they sense and feel it, they've reached out to their community and we
are larger, of course, than just the numbers within our town site, that we would
have a strong potential of supporting a FM radio in Cochrane as a separate
entity.
8431 And I hope that that
could be a consideration by the Board as a distinct possibility, because I think
it's there.
8432 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
8433 MR. HYNES: I just wanted to say with respect to my
comments earlier about the statistical data, I wasn't necessarily trying to say
anything untoward regarding the actual work that was done. I'm sure those folks worked hard in
doing what they prepared, but an old wise professor of mine once told me, you
can say anything you like with statistics.
8434 So, one has to look
beyond the numbers to see where they came from and what they really mean,
particularly when you're dealing with, as you pointed out, two separate
communities with two different sets of demographics.
8435 And, so, it is a
challenge. And my data is based, as
I said earlier as well, purely on anecdotal data that I have gathered in my role
as a municipal official talking to my constituents in the Town of
Cochrane.
8436 So, I guess that puts a
little more context perhaps around my earlier comments. I didn't mean to be necessarily mean to
anyone who prepared the documentation, but I was trying to give you some balance
in terms of what the reality of the situation is and the real live people that
I've spoken to, hundreds of them in the Town of Cochrane.
8437 Thank
you.
8438 MR. HUGHES: Thank you. And, if I may, you're absolutely correct
in assuming you have two different identities in the Town of Cochrane and
Airdrie. You also have a very
like‑mindedness in that type of person and the people that live in those
communities, and within this application having both communities being served,
both communities have high schools, both communities have local
sports.
8439 As Mr. Langford said
and respectfully, very difficult if you're going to have a man on a high school
in Cochrane and another reporter, very cost prohibitive, but by telephone you
can get results, et cetera.
8440 And I really feel that
the fact that the purpose of this particular application is to focus on these
two communities, not focusing on Calgary.
8441 Calgary radio is
wonderful, it covers, it blankets both those communities, but it doesn't give
local, it doesn't touch them locally, it doesn't hit them to the
heart.
8442 They don't hear about
what's happening, as Stu said, about the snowdrifts. There's many situations where you can
have and you can build a network of people who you can call, the RCMP, or people
you can call in each community and then channel it through your radio
signals.
8443 If Mr. Tiessen were
just focusing on Airdrie and Cochrane, yes, indeed, they have their identity and
it's not an identity that there's ‑‑ it's not like a Calgary/Edmonton
rivalry by any stretch of the imagination.
8444 Cochrane knows they're
going to win the Grey Cup. That's
not the case. The simple case is
that there is a like‑mindedness and there is a need, it's almost like an
elevation of the community spirit and the fabric of the
community.
8445 They're obviously going
to get a signal, you're going to approve a signal, and either Airdrie itself, or
Airdrie/Cochrane, I just think that this innovative application, an ambitious
application
with both communities being included, at this
point I think the young man should get an opportunity to prove himself and to go
forward with his efforts.
8446 THE CHAIRPERSON: There was another comment that came from
this table that the Calgary metropolitan area is growing and extending and will
eventually reach Airdrie and Cochrane and likely also due southward towards
Okotoks and ‑‑
8447 MR. HUGHES: Turner Valley, High River,
Okotoks.
8448 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. And then eventually it will all be
Calgarians who will be living in these areas and Airdrie and Cochrane will
either become ‑‑
8449 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Absorbed?
8450 THE CHAIRPERSON: Hmmm?
8451 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD:
Absorbed?
8452 THE CHAIRPERSON:
‑‑ absorbed by ‑‑ yes, or a dormitory for Calgarians who are working
downtown.
8453 Do you see that
happening shortly or over which time frame? Do you have an
idea?
8454 MR. HUGHES: Yes, sir, I have a pretty good
idea. At the moment, the City of
Calgary is engaged in a series of negotiations with the Municipal District of
Rocky View to undertake annexation of 30 years of land for the growth of the
City of Calgary. I know this
because I've been involved in moderating a number of public meetings with
citizens in the MD of Rocky View and the City of
Calgary.
8455 And the issue here is
that 30 years from now, none of us in this room, or few of us in this room will
be very young, if we are here at all, and so with that forming part of the
context, I'd have to say that there is no short‑term danger of the Town of
Cochrane or the City of Airdrie being subsumed by the City of
Calgary.
8456 In fact, even if one
looks at the topography between northwest of Calgary between the city limits and
the Town of Cochrane, it would be ‑‑ without getting into too much
excruciating detail ‑‑ extremely expensive and almost unaffordable for
developers to do anything significantly in that area.
8457 So, the City of Calgary
is not interested in expanding to the northwest, as I understand it, it's more
to the southeast towards the rolling Prairies and not towards the
mountains.
8458 So, all that
long‑windedness to say, there is no short‑term danger of Cochrane or Airdrie
being part of the City of Calgary.
8459 THE CHAIRPERSON: Those are all of our
questions.
8460 Thank you very
much.
8461 We will take a
15‑minute break. Oh, Mrs. Secretary
wants to say something that...
8462 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Chairman, just for the record, I
would like to indicate that some of the intervenors that were listed on the
agenda and did not appear today will remain on the public file as non‑appearing
interventions.
8463 And that completes the
list of appearing intervenors, therefore, Phase 3.
8464 Thank
you.
8465 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
8466 So, we will take a
15‑minute break and go along with Phase 4 of this hearing.
8467 We will reconvene by
five minutes past 4:00.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1555 / Suspension à
1555
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1610 / Reprise à
1610
8468 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, please.
8469 We are now starting the
Phase 4 of the first Calgary/Airdrie applications.
8470 Mrs.
Secretary.
8471 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8472 Before proceeding to
Phase 4, I would just like to note for the record that the applicant Calgary
Independent Broadcasters have filed a document which the Panel has accepted with
respect to the seven‑year pro forma statement of changes in financial
position.
8473 This document is
available in the public examination room, should you wish to consult
it.
8474 And now we are at Phase
4, as Mr. Chairman Arpin has mentioned, where applicants can reply to all the
interventions that have been submitted on their
application.
8475 The applicants will
appear in reverse order.
8476 The applicant Harvard
Broadcasting and Golden West Broadcasting have indicated that they will not be
appearing in this phase of the proceedings.
8477 I would then call
Newcap Inc. to present, or have their presentation with respect to the
interventions, and they will be speaking with respect to both applications,
Calgary and Airdrie.
8478 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Maheu, Mr. Steele, when you are
ready.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
8479 MR. MAHEU: Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the
Commission.
8480 Just a few quick
points, if we may, to respond to the interventions that have been
made.
8481 First off, if I may,
there was a request made of us yesterday to supply additional research for the
Airdrie application, specifically the projected composition of our audience
based on the research.
8482 It is on page 10 of the
research that we supplied to you in your folder yesterday, so we did not give it
as we said we would because it was already in your folder. I just wanted to note that for the
record. Okay.
8483 Very briefly, if we
may, we listened with interest this morning. It was wonderful to see all the support
from the various people of Calgary for all the applications that were presented
here at this hearing.
8484 In listening to the
intervenors speak, specifically the intervenors on behalf of the Star FM
application, for the record, we wanted to respond to a comment that they made
about the difference between ownership locally and ownership by companies that
are based in places other than Calgary.
8485 And there was a
reference made by the intervenor that they felt that it was better to have a
local Calgary ownership for a radio station because decisions could be made
locally by the people who lived here, and they implied that other companies that
were not based out of here were basically controlling the events and activities
and business of the station from afar.
8486 Although we can't speak
to other ownership, we can certainly speak on behalf of Newcap, where we do
operate a radio station in Calgary presently and other stations throughout the
Province of Alberta, and our policy is quite straight forward when it comes to
the management of our radio stations.
We ask our managers to operate them as if they owned
them.
8487 And our belief is that
the best decisions are always made by the people who are closest to the
work. And we take great pride in
the fact that we create an environment and have a system in place where our
local managers and our employees are empowered to make the best decisions, to
best respond to the needs and wants of people in the marketplace. They live in the markets, they
understand who they're serving and there's no remote
control.
8488 In terms of what we do,
our head office is one of support and resource for the people on the front lines
doing the work in the markets where it's being done.
8489 So, I just wanted to
have that on the record in terms of responding to that
comment.
8490 Very briefly, we'd like
to thank all of the people who took the time to intervene on behalf of both of
our applications, both for Airdrie and for our proposed radio station in
Calgary.
8491 It's a busy world and
it takes time for people to think about putting their support and their name
behind something they believe in.
8492 We are extremely
pleased with the hundreds and hundreds of people, particularly who came forth to
support our Calgary application, and the many who expressed the support for our
Airdrie application.
8493 Taking that a step
further, in watching and listening to the intervenors today, there seems to be
overwhelming support both in the appearing intervenors and those that were
received by mail and through e‑mail for a new radio service in Calgary, and I
think that's one thing that most of the people who intervened on behalf of
whatever application have said pretty clearly.
8494 Calgary is a city of a
million people. It's grown up, it's
a little behind in terms of the number of services available to it compared to
markets of the same size. We agree
wholeheartedly with them.
8495 There have been some
very, very good presentations made over the past couple of days for services in
Calgary and we are big believers in the fact that competition is good for
everybody, it makes broadcasters more accountable and more service certainly
makes for better service to listeners.
8496 So, we'd like to thank
all of the people who took the time to intervene on behalf of all their format
choices.
8497 We believe there are
lots of spectrum available to have those choices fulfilled, and we trust that
the Commission in its wisdom will certainly make the best decision for the
people of Calgary because there is room in every demographic group for service
that is needed and we believe there's enough spectrum for
it.
8498 Other than that, I
would like to thank you very much for the opportunity to present both of our
proposals, Airdrie and Calgary, and if you have any questions, we would
certainly be happy to answer those.
8499 Thank
you.
8500 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
much.
8501 Mrs. Secretary, for the
record.
8502 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8503 I would now call upon
Tiessen Media Inc. to respond to all the interventions that were filed on their
application.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
8504 MR. TIESSEN: Mr. Chair and Commissioners, thank you
for allowing me the opportunity to present to you yesterday and for this
opportunity to comment on interventions.
8505 First off, I'd like to
thank Mr. Hughes for his supportive words personally and professionally and also
thanks to Deputy‑Mayor Hynes and Mr. Bradley for sharing their comments about
Tiessen Media's application.
8506 Today's comments and
the over 125 letters on the public file provide clear information about the need
for the local radio service for the Airdrie, Cochrane and Municipal District of
Rocky View.
8507 All of these areas need
to be serviced, not just Airdrie.
8508 Tiessen Media's local
programming initiatives were revisited again today as part of the intervention
process and I'm committed to doing what I've said in my plan and I will work
towards that.
8509 At this time I'd like
to thank all of you for putting up with me as a new applicant and part of the
process, I'm a little shaky at times because I am a new applicant and, of
course, a big thanks to all of your staff for assisting the younger generation
of broadcasters through quite a very interesting, informative and learning
process through the intervention and also through the public
hearing.
8510 So, thanks to all of
you and I appreciate the opportunity to again speak to
you.
8511 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Tiessen.
8512 Mrs.
Secretary.
8513 THE SECRETARY: I would now call upon Rawlco Radio
Limited to present ‑‑ to intervene on ‑‑ or make a reply to the
interventions that were filed on their application.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
8514 MR. RAWLINSON: Thank you. We have no
comment.
8515 Thanks for this
hearing. It's been very
fair.
8516 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Rawlinson.
8517 Mrs.
Secretary.
8518 THE SECRETARY: The next applicant would be Mr.
Yavwinder Sivia on behalf of a corporation to be
incorporated.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
8519 MR. TAMBER: Thank you.
8520 Chairman Arpin, members
of the Commission, we are here to respond to an
intervention.
8521 First, we wish to thank
more than 600 members of Calgary's ethnic community who wrote to the Commission
in support of this application.
8522 The people supporting
the application includes several hundred business' owners who would support an
ethnic radio service.
8523 In reply to
interventions, we have responded in writing in writing to the written
interventions of Fairchild and CKUA.
8524 Given the length of
this public hearing, we do not believe that repeating the point made in the
reply would make the best use of the Commission's time.
8525 In their appearance
before you, there is few additional points we will briefly
respond.
8526 We also wish to address
the matter of protecting SCMO stations in general relative to ethnic
broadcasting policy and the most recent review of the policy in
1999.
8527 The Commission did
rumour that it would continue to allow new SCMO services in only markets that
are unserved by over‑the‑air AM or FM ethnic stations, but the single language
SCMO services would be subject to prior approval in the markets where there are
existing FM or AM stations.
8528 The previous ethnic
broadcasting policy developed in the 1980s also recognized the value of single
language SCMO services, but it was never the policy of single language SCMO
services to be protected in the event that an application of multi‑language
service was proposed.
8529 CKUA and Fairchild are,
in effect, asking the Commission to amend its ethnic broadcasting policy and,
that is, to protect single‑language SCMO services in situation where there is an
application for a new multi‑lingual over‑the‑air ethnic
service.
8530 We have had the
opportunity to listen to the SCMO service which is transmitted by Fairchild FM
station and can confirm to the Commission that the program originates with a
source called Radio India which I understand is broadcast from the Washington
station, KVRI‑AM 1600.
8531 So, it seems that the
intervenors are asking you to deny a Canadian radio application in order to
protect SCMO service which originates from a U.S. radio
station.
8532 We are surprised that
CKUA would suggest that our station will threaten its major source of revenue
and should be denied.
8533 CKUA's website states
that it has 17 transmitters throughout Alberta and is available throughout
Canada by satellite.
8534 Its website says that
it raises more than $2‑million a year from the donor who gets income tax
receipts. In the world of
broadcasting, that is a lot of money.
8535 In spite of that, the
CKUA is heard almost everywhere in the province and its all‑night scheduled
programming contains no programming for South Asian community or ethnic
communities whom they propose to serve.
8536 So, CKUA's appearance
here today seems to be motivated as a landlord trying to protect his rental
income from his tenant the affluent SCMO operator, rather than providing local
service in our communities.
8537 Last, with respect to
CKUA who we do not believe that their request to defer this particular application issues a new call. It's either appropriate or fair or, for
that matter, has a basis in administration law.
8538 We agree with the
Vice‑Chair Arpin's statement today that the call was clear and we did not
restrict the types of commercial broadcasting application.
8539 MR. LEWIS: Fairchild has requested a condition of
licence be imposed that would prohibit the station from broadcasting in Chinese,
and we've already indicated in writing that we're prepared to accept that
condition of licence.
8540 We disagree that the
actual hours of South Asian programming or the placement of those programs
should be limited by conditions of licence.
8541 Clearly in the
community, Fairchild's station is perceived as being a Cantonese station because
Cantonese programming is broadcast Monday to Fridays, from 7:00 a.m. to 4:00
p.m. and 9:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., 19 hours a day of Cantonese programming out of
24 hours, and yet Fairchild claims it provides adequate service to our South
Asian community and other groups we propose to
serve.
8542 It would be highly
unusual to impose on one ethnic licensee the hours when it could not broadcast
specific programs, while Fairchild would have the full flexibility to change its
schedule whenever it wants.
8543 We believe this type of
restriction on scheduling specific programs during hours of the day is not in
the best interest of the community.
8544 But it's strange, Mr.
Chairman, that Fairchild is seeking protection in Calgary. Today in its presentation Fairchild
cited a precedent for this type of condition of licence. It cited the condition of licence
imposed on its station AM‑1430 in Toronto in 1996.
8545 If I digress, a bit of
history. In Toronto in 1996,
Fairchild was limited in the number of hours of Chinese programming and the
placement of that programming on its AM‑1430. But Fairchild found a way around the
condition of licence by buying up brokered airtime on another ethnic station,
CIRV‑88.7 and by branding its website and on‑air presentations as Fairchild 1430
and 88.7.
8546 Fairchild was recently
released from this restriction but, for a number of years, Fairchild was able to
provide around‑the‑clock programming in Toronto in Chinese using two stations,
despite the condition of licence imposed by the
Commission.
8547 Our point in raising
this is that the condition restricting the new station's ability to schedule
individual languages hour by hour would not, in any way, restrict Fairchild from
changing its schedule.
8548 What we don't
understand are the restrictions in the Fairchild draft licence condition which
would prohibit the broadcast of Punjabi, Hindi or Urdu during hours when
Fairchild broadcasts in Cantonese.
It just doesn't make sense.
8549 Since less than 15 per
cent of Fairchild's revenue comes from only 17 hours a week of South Asian
language programming broadcast on its FM station, it may be more beneficial for
Fairchild to program additional Chinese programming which appears to be its
profit centre, in the event the application were to be approved, particularly
because we would be prohibited from broadcasting Chinese programming by
condition of licence and it would have the Chinese programming market all to
itself.
8550 MR. TAMBER: You have heard support from members of
the Ukrainian community who believe there is a need for additional programming
in their language and there is a very active community, at least 5,000 members
who are members of the Ukrainian Congress are the members of the community we
have been told want more media access.
8551 In preparing for this
hearing we have spent a lot of time speaking with members of the communities
whom we propose to serve. It has
become apparent to us that the Vietnamese community, one of the groups listed in
the application, is growing and there is a high retention of Vietnamese language
as language spoken at home.
8552 We believe that any
shortfall in demand of weekly hours of programming for the Ukrainian programming
would be supported by the Vietnamese advertisers.
8553 However, our commitment
to serve a minimum number of ethnic groups language is
unchanged.
8554 Last, we heard a great
deal of discussion over the past few days regarding the use of different
frequency in Calgary. We have heard
at this hearing mainstream English language broadcasters present proposals which
involves very large amount of advertisement, revenue and large listener
base.
8555 In the event that the
Commission grants us a licence, we would be prepared to consider an alternative
frequency with potentially less coverage.
8556 As our listener base is
presently smaller than those of some of the other applicants, we believe that
this would be beneficial for our community.
8557 There may be another
solution that is using an AM frequency in the AM band of 1610 to 1710 similar to
the solution which Sam Lorenzo found in Toronto.
8558 The ethnic population
of Calgary, Canada's fourth largest city, is growing fast. You have heard from intervenors who
don't have enough programming in their own language. We believe that licensing this
application would add diversity and community
understanding.
8559 Thank you for the long
hours you and your staff have put in doing this hearing and preparation for this
hearing, we would like to thank you all.
8560 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
8561 Mr.
Langford?
8562 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Sorry, Mr. Chairman, did
you have a question, because I didn't want to ‑‑
8563 THE CHAIRPERSON: No.
8564 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: All
right.
8565 I just want to focus
for a moment ‑‑ I usually don't ask questions in Phase 4 ‑‑ but this
is quite a new and interesting proposal which I believe you made on the final
page, that is, that you would be prepared to accept an AM frequency, if that was
the only alternative open to you.
8566 MR. LEWIS: Commissioner Langford, in the deficiency
phase of the questions we identified 99.7 as a possible frequency, and in the
course of the hearing no one has raised 99.7.
8567 I think, as we noted
the other day, we have not had the opportunity to work with Industry Canada to
identify whether it would be acceptable from a NavCom situation, so
preferably ‑‑ and that's a lower power and restricted frequency, but that
would be certainly our choice, assuming that 90.3, 92.9 and possibly the
100. ‑‑ I forget the frequency ‑‑
8568 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: 106.3 I think, or
whatever.
8569 MR. LEWIS: ‑‑
were allocated, 99.7 would be a possibility and then, failing all of that,
looking at AM.
8570 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Now, of course it's
important for me to ensure that you understand ‑‑ it's important for us, I
should say, that a move to AM would have an impact on your business plan
certainly in the first year or two, because it's much more capital intensive to
start up from scratch an AM station.
8571 We're not asking you to
re‑file or anything like that, but have you taken that into consideration, that
there will be added expenses?
8572 MR. TAMBER: Yes, we have.
8573 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Thank you very
much.
8574 Those are my questions,
Mr. Chair.
8575 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
Langford.
8576 99.7 may raise some
problems because the CBC has asked for 99.3, if my ‑‑ and this has not yet
been issued, but there is already an applicant, and also there is an applicant
for 99.5 in Airdrie, so, that creates a potential impairment for the use of the
99.7 frequency here in Calgary.
8577 Now, obviously you
didn't have any engineers either looking at the band, maybe here around Calgary
there are AM frequencies that are available below the 1710
kilohertz ‑‑
8578 MR. LEWIS: Vice‑Chairman, we spoke with our
engineer during the course of the hearing and he indicated that he felt there
was a drop‑in solution at a lower power level.
8579 Now, as you're
familiar, in many of the licensing decisions before, I think Ottawa was one of
those cases a few years ago, people actually found alternative frequencies after
the licensing decision working cooperatively with Industry
Canada.
8580 That's what we're
suggesting here. It's not our first
choice, but it certainly is a way of accommodating a service that's
viable.
8581 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Well, I think we surely are receiving
your comments and it will be part of our consideration.
8582 Thank you very
much.
8583 MR. TAMBER: Thank you.
8584 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mrs. Secretary.
8585 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8586 I would now call the
Jim Pattison Broadcast Group.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
8587 MR. SIEMENS: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of
the Commission. I'll be
brief.
8588 We do appreciate the
opportunity to reply to the interventions filed by CIRPA and Corus Entertainment
dated January 24th, 2006.
8589 In response to the
blanket intervention filed by CIRPA, No. 455, which commented on all of the
applications before you in this proceeding, on page 6 of their letter they
objected to our commitment to the Save the Music Foundation and criticized our
absence of commitment of funds to FACTOR.
8590 I think Ms Kelman
during our presentation on Wednesday and our speakers this morning addressed the
validity and the growing excitement about the Save the Music
Foundation.
8591 In response to the
CIRPA concern about the absence of a contribution to FACTOR, we believe it's
important that the Commission be aware that last November the Pattison Broadcast
Group was recognized by FACTOR with a special award for its significant
contributions to FACTOR in recent years.
8592 We are very proud of
our relationship with the independent production community and respect their
view but, in this case, we disagree with their comments about our
application.
8593 Turning to the Corus
intervention, which requested that any applicant licensed at this proceeding
should be required to commit to its format for the licence term, we indicated in
writing to the Commission that in general terms we agree with Corus and are
prepared to commit to that.
8594 We believe that we have
identified the rightful format for the market. This commitment was subject only to
being entitled to change format in the event that a competitor in the market
changes to the soft vocal format prior to our ability to sign
on.
8595 In closing, Mr.
Chairman, members of the Commission, I want to thank those who took the time to
write letters of support for our application. We received support from individuals who
supported our format. We received
support from people who commented on the community service and other markets,
and we received support for our various CTD and tangible benefit
commitments.
8596 These letters came from
potential listeners in Calgary, supporters of our company from other radio
markets we serve, high school and college music educators from across Western
Canada, municipal officials, members of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta and
members of Parliament.
8597 We highlight the
support we received from the Métis Association of Alberta in our commitments to
employment equity and the continuing education program we have planned as part
of this application.
8598 I would also like to
take just a moment to express our appreciation to those who took the time to
attend and speak in support of our application.
8599 We're proud to have
struck some new friends in this process, music educators in British Columbia and
Alberta who have truly committed their lives to Canadian talent
development.
8600 We also wish to
acknowledge the other applicants in this proceeding. We've all put a lot of effort into
getting our applications ready to be heard by you.
8601 And, finally, Mr.
Chairman, members of the Commission and Commission staff, I want to thank you
for running a fair and efficient hearing.
We hope you enjoy your weekend in Calgary.
8602 And thank
you.
8603 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Siemens.
8604 We will now move to the
next ‑‑
8605 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on the next applicant,
Calgary Independent Radio Broadcasters.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
8606 MR. TRIPATHY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners
and staff.
8607 I would like to
acknowledge some of the many intervenors, both business as well as community,
who have helped to demonstrate the community roots of our
application.
8608 We'd like to recognize
Mr. Rick Blaskin's comments this morning regarding the character of our local
ownership group, in addition to the broadcast experience that our group brings
to this community.
8609 In addition to that,
we'd also like to thank Kevin Wilmes and Lenny Williamson's comments this
morning with regards to Canadian talent development and targeting of the money
where it counts. It's not always
about the size of the cheque.
8610 As far as the
application itself is concerned, many of the applicants this week have filed
tremendous applications. A lot of
them on the younger end of the demos, some of them on the older end of the demo,
45 plus, and we'd like to thank Keystone Music this morning for clarifying that
Star FM with its yesterday's favourites and hits of tomorrow will be a radio
station that is broad based and, in fact, will target a 35 plus
demographic.
8611 In addition, we would
like to recognize the comments from CIRPA, a letter that was filed earlier on,
and we'd like to let them know that we have read the letter. We did listen and, in fact, have
contributed money to FACTOR and we also are in agreement with their position on
licensing an independent where possible.
8612 In addition to that,
we'd also like to thank intervenor Doug Hopey, and I
quote:
"In this broadcast environment of increased
consolidation and concentration, I respectfully urge the Commission to licence
local applicants where possible."
(As read)
8613 Finally, we'd like to
thank the Commission and all the staff.
It's been a terrific process.
We do appreciate everybody's help as we've tried to go through
this.
8614 And, finally, a
reminder without sounding too salesy about it, this application is all about a
group of people that are here for Calgarians and this application is by
Calgarians.
8615 We're 92.9 Star FM and
we do appreciate your time this week.
8616 Thank
you.
8617 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Tripathy.
8618 We are going to move to
the next applicant.
8619 THE SECRETARY: The next applicant would be Evanov Radio
Group, but they have indicated that they will not be appearing in this phase of
the proceedings.
8620 I would then call the
applicant 1182743 Alberta Limited, Mr. Paul Larsen.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
8621 MR. LARSEN: Thank you, Madam
Secretary.
8622 Good afternoon once
again, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.
8623 On behalf of myself,
Rick, Paul, Patty, Desiree, Daniel, Mary Mills and Brenda Stonnell, our panel
that appeared before you this week, I just want to thank you for this
opportunity to reply to the positive interventions submitted and presented on
our behalf.
8624 Quickly I'd just like
to touch on a couple of housekeeping items. I know Madam Secretary indicated that we
did file, per your request during questioning, a letter signed by Mary Mills,
president of Norscot Holdings and myself this morning. It details the general principles and
terms of our shareholder agreement and confirms that we will be filing an
executed shareholder agreement on or before March 15th.
8625 Also during questioning
alternate frequencies came up and the 106.1 came up in part of our application
because we had identified it as a Calgary allotment, which it is, and we had
noted the NavCom issues as well.
8626 I've had the
opportunity to discuss with Mr. Bill Evans, our P.Eng. and owner of E.B. Systems
who did our technical brief, and he's confirmed that our next best choice would
be 212C 90.3 as it's a full power, non‑directional and would work from the CBC
transmitter site that we proposed, and also indicated Channel 262C, 100.3‑FM is
another full power class C, with a directional pattern that would be a third
choice.
8627 We did indicate in
reply to our deficiencies that should the Commission decide to license our
application on a frequency other than 225C‑1, 92.9 that we would consider all
possible alternatives and seek the alternate frequency with the best possible
coverage. So, I just wanted to
clarify that we have had that discussion with our
engineer.
8628 Moving along to the
interventions, Mr. Chikinda, I would like to thank him for appearing on our
behalf this morning. He spoke about
the need for news content and also his enthusiasm for our proposed partnership
with Mount Royal College, as well as SAIT regarding our future broadcaster's
initiative.
8629 He also wrote a letter
confirming his support for that initiative, as did Steve Olson, an instructor
from SAIT and we thank them both for that.
8630 In the past couple of
days there's been few references made to putting 19‑year‑olds on the air and I
just wanted to speak briefly to that, if I could.
8631 Just to ensure that the
spirit and the intent of this proposal is clear, and I'm sure that you do
understand the intent, our future broadcaster's initiative is intended to give
young radio broadcasters, young radio students an opportunity to develop their
skills and get a foot in the door in this
business.
8632 The on‑air position
we're talking about would be the overnight period, we were clear about that in
our application. It's a low
listening, non‑rated period where we believe we can help someone build their
radio skills without impacting the integrity of our
programming.
8633 We're not talking about
putting these students on morning drive.
8634 Future broadcasters
came about from our own experiences.
When I was a 19‑year‑old disc jockey at CHUB‑AM in Nanaimo during
middays, Doug Rutherford who was PD of CKNW‑AM in Vancouver at the time heard me
on the air one day and called me out of the blue and offered me weekday
overnights on CKNW, one of the biggest stations in Vancouver, in Canada in fact;
and clearly, a station targeted to adults 45 plus.
8635 I was 19 at that time
and imagine the influence of a 19‑year‑old surrounded by the best broadcasters
in Canada, Doug Rutherford, John Ashbridge, Warren Barker, three o'clock in the
morning visits from Jack Cullen, preceding legendary Vancouver morning man
Frosty Forest on air every day and getting his feedback every
day.
8636 That's the true intent
of our future broadcasters' initiative and I just wanted to set the record
straight in case there was any miscommunication in terms of the intent of that
initiative, even though I think we were fairly clear in our application and I'm
sure that you do understand where we were coming from
there.
8637 I'd like to also just
thank Sean Libin who appeared for us this morning to speak about the need for
The Lounge as a viable and focused advertising and marketing outlet for clients
targeting adults 45 plus.
8638 We would like to thank
and recognize the many others who wrote supporting interventions in writing on
our behalf. Community groups,
Canadian artists, non‑profits, the general public, and we know that you have
either reviewed those already or will be reviewing them as part of the
process.
8639 As you're aware, we did
reply in writing regarding the CIRPA and Corus interventions and believe that
our points in writing will be well taken.
8640 Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners, we are here before you at this hearing because we want to build a
new dynamic modern broadcasting company.
We're not here simply trying to get a single FM radio licence, and I just
wanted to make that clear too.
8641 Calgary's clearly an
important component of this journey to start a new company, in fact, I see it as
a nucleus upon which we would build our
company.
8642 And I appreciate your
time. I have a new‑found respect
for the Commission, having enjoyed sitting through the proceedings this week,
and I wish you well this weekend.
Enjoy your time in Calgary.
8643 And thank
you.
8644 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Larsen.
8645 Mrs.
Secretary.
8646 THE SECRETARY: I would now call upon CHUM
Limited.
REPLY / RÉPONDRE
8647 MR. SWITZER: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of
the Commission.
8648 For the record, my name
is Jay Switzer and I'm president and CEO of CHUM Limited and with us today to my
right, Rob Farina, program director for CHUM‑FM, and to my left Kevin Goldstein,
CHUM's director of regulatory affairs.
8649 Before we begin our
brief reply comments this afternoon, we'd like to take the opportunity as well
to thank the intervenors that have appeared before you today in support of our
application and the hundreds of others that submitted personal comments to the
Commission. Their support for
Energy FM is greatly appreciated.
8650 Our reply can be broken
down into three parts.
8651 First, we'd like to
respond to Commissioner Langford's comment relating to our Canadian content
commitments; second, we'd like to comment on a statement that was made during
Harvard Broadcasting's application concerning the amount of Hot AC music that is
currently available from existing Calgary radio stations; and, finally, we'd
like to elaborate on our commitment to Aboriginal voices radio as a follow‑up to
discussions earlier this week.
8652 MR. FARINA: As we noted on Tuesday and other
applicants have confirmed, Hot AC is a new music format. In fact, roughly 80 per cent of our
proposed station's playlist will consist of current music.
8653 Most songs on a Hot AC
station are played in high rotation as opposed to a station that relies more on
gold or older material, such as the classic hits, an AC or a classic rock
station or even a station that relies on new material, like an alternative rock
station, but plays a lot more titles with less repetition to
them.
8654 As the Hot AC format is
built on new and emerging artists, we believe and our experience shows that a 35
per cent Canadian content level for this station is realistic. Any higher requirement would force us to
rely on gold‑based music from the last two decades which is already over exposed
in this market and not consistent with the format.
8655 We note with interest
the Commission's own findings in their Music View Study for 2005 released
yesterday which outlines weekday play of new Canadian artists in Calgary, a
market with no Hot AC station at 3.6 selections, while Toronto, a market with a
strong Hot AC presence, had more than double the number of selections at 8.7 per
cent on the same day.
8656 In filing this
application one of the goals was to develop a set of initiatives that would
truly benefit emerging Canadian artists.
Exhibition levels for Canadian music are but one of the tools in the tool
box, but they tend to benefit more established acts as opposed to up and coming
ones.
8657 In contrast, the
commitments CHUM has made as part of this application will help emerging
Canadian talent in three ways.
8658 First, an air‑play
commitment; second, a coordinated program for getting their music onto the
charts; and, third, a coordinated program for getting their music into retail
outlets.
8659 By the end of our first
licence term, this three‑pronged approach will have resulted in a minimum of 84
different artists, 12 in each year of the term, breaking through on a national
level.
8660 I would like to now
briefly discuss the amount of Hot AC music that is currently being aired by
existing Calgary radio stations.
8661 During Harvard's
presentation on Thursday morning they noted that media‑based stats from 2004,
show that 45 to 65 per cent of the songs on the playlists of Hot AC stations in
Canada were being played by radio stations in the Calgary
market.
8662 In CHUM's view, this
statement is not relevant to the public record in this proceeding. In 2004 the Calgary market had a Hot AC
station. Now, in 2006 Calgary is
the only major market in Canada not being served by a Hot AC
station.
8663 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can I stop you here. I think you are making an intervention,
not a reply to interventions, so it is a matter of process, but there was an
opportunity to make intervention earlier today and you chose not to make an
intervention.
8664 What Mr. Farina just
said, from my own hand, is an intervention.
8665 MR. SWITZER: Mr. Chairman, we, of course, will follow
your guidance. We are trying to
respond to specific comments made about our application by another applicant and
believed that this was appropriately ‑‑ the appropriate time to respond to
their assertions about our application.
8666 We're not intending, of
course, and are very well aware of the rules.
8667 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will ask my legal counsel to help
me.
8668 MS BENNETT: I think Phase 2 may have been the more
appropriate time to comment on what the other applicants had to
say.
8669 MR. SWITZER: Understood, with respect and apologies
from us.
8670 I'd like to then
perhaps move on to comments made and discussions that were held about
appearances with AVR. We believe
this is an appropriate time to respond to issues raised, if
we're ‑‑
8671 THE CHAIRPERSON: Absolutely.
8672 MR. SWITZER: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8673 We'd like to note that
we strongly believe in what AVR is trying to accomplish and that we do have
great confidence in the abilities of their new team led by Jamie Hill whom you
had the opportunity to meet this morning.
8674 There was some
discussion. We believe they have a
realistic business plan, developed with the help of Price Waterhouse Coopers, in
fact, funded from benefits from CHUM from our recent acquisition of Craig
Media.
8675 There was some
discussion ‑‑ some considerable discussion as to the appropriateness of
contributions made to AVR and we'd like to respond to
that.
8676 We believe that the
broadcasting policy for Canada, in our opinion, is very clear as set out in
section 3 of the Act and it has been repeated earlier this week. Programming that reflects the Aboriginal
cultures of Canada should be provided within the Canadian broadcasting system as
resources become available for that purpose.
8677 Further as to AVR there
were some questions ‑‑ specific questions as to whether the contributions
were eligible or not, and perhaps I'd
just like to say that we believe our significant $4.5‑million
contribution from CHUM to AVR will put them on stable financial footing for the
long term and it's a very important and eligible priority of the
system.
8678 Finally, an in‑general
reply to a series of issues that were raised by other applicants as part of the
public record.
8679 We do believe that our
application is the best proposal before you and should be
approved.
8680 Perhaps out of respect
to the process, Mr. Chairman, I won't repeat the specific reasons as to why we
believe our application has advantages, although they would have dealt with
specific issues raised by other applicants against us.
8681 We perhaps will
conclude by thanking you again for the privilege of being here. This has been a very fair and very
complete process. We're anxious to
serve the listeners of Calgary.
8682 We thank you, Mr.
Chairman, Commissioners and staff for a very fair, balanced and complete
week.
8683 Thank
you.
8684 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Switzer.
8685 Mrs.
Secretary.
8686 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
8687 And, finally, I would
ask Touch Canada Broadcasting.
REPLY / RÉPONDRE
8688 MR. HUNSPERGER: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission,
staff, I wonder if me being last is what the good book says, the first shall be
last, the last shall be first. I
don't know.
8689 During our appearance
earlier this week we had a discussion concerning spoken word content on the
station and it was suggested by Mr. Langford that we have a brief meeting with
the Commission staff.
8690 We are pleased to
report that we took the opportunity to meet with the staff during one of the
breaks and believe we have solved the source of our
misunderstanding.
8691 We held the view that
procedurally we had applied for a commercial gospel music AM radio
station.
8692 In accordance with the
CRTC's current application forms, commercial AM stations which play special
category 35 music such as gospel music are not subject to a condition of licence
restricting them to operate with a specialty
format.
8693 However, FM stations
which play special category 35 music, music classified as non‑classic religious,
are subject to a condition of licence and operate within a specialty
format. This is the basis of the
misunderstanding.
8694 We were, of course,
familiar with the FM situation given that our station, 105.9 Shine‑FM Edmonton,
which was licensed pursuant to broadcasting decision CRTC‑2003‑1 is authorized
to provide a programming undertaking as a Christian music station and is subject
to a condition of licence to broadcast category 35 music.
8695 Other radio stations
have been previously licensed by the Commission as commercially supported
services, but were also described as Christian music
stations.
8696 Therefore, we were
surprised when this application was gazetted and described in the hearing
earlier this week as a religious radio station, because category 3 special
interest gospel music constitutes the vast majority of our
programming.
8697 However, the public
notice also accurately described the station as an English language gospel music
service. That description is, we
believe, in accordance with the past CRTC AM licensing
principles.
8698 We have reviewed the
Commission's past licensing decisions with our legal counsel and we understand
that the existing commercial and non‑commercial Christian music stations,
including 105.9 Shine‑FM Edmonton, would not be considered to be a religious
radio station, even if they broadcast some spoken work material that is of a
religious nature.
8699 The religious
broadcasting policy public notice CRTC‑1993‑78 contains a definition of
religion, but at paragraph (d)(i) executes from that
definition:
"Religious music programs in which the spoken
word content is non‑religious." (As
read)
8700 Again, since the
majority of the programming content in our proposed AM service consists of
gospel music, and the spoken word content is non‑religious within those hours of
gospel music program, we considered that the radio station would not be a
programming undertaking devoted to religious programming.
8701 This brings me to the
outstanding issue. We were asked
whether we would accept a condition of licence to provide balance in
programming.
8702 In our 105.9 Shine‑FM
Edmonton licensing decision, the Commission reminded
us:
"...of the requirements set out in the
religious policy with respect to balance and other matters involving
broadcasting of religious programming, as well as soliciting funds." (As read)
8703 All other Christian
music stations are subject to the same obligation when they broadcast religious
spoken word programming.
8704 For the record, Mr.
Chairman, if we are fortunate enough to be granted this licence
for Calgary, we would be pleased to abide by the policy with respect
to religious spoken word programming.
8705 So that there is no
misunderstanding of our position, if we are granted this licence we would
enthusiastically abide by the Commission's policy relating to the broadcast of
spoken word religious programming.
8706 I trust that this
response is satisfactory and answers the question posed earlier in the
hearing. We want to thank those who
wrote in support of our application.
We could have had many, many more, and it's to my neglect that we didn't
and my inexperience to hearings and I apologize for that. Our next hearings that will be coming up
perhaps later on this year, we will have more positive interventions on our
behalf.
8707 Just to reiterate,
licensing us does not create a competitive imbalance, in fact, only one station
in the market, you will help us by adding this AM to become more
viable.
8708 We have a strong and
realistic business plan grounded in 12 years of experience of gospel programming
and we have lived through lean years and have found a way to sustain a business
model.
8709 Our proposed format is
in demand and will serve a significant group of people who right now are not
being served in the Calgary market.
There have been some applicants here that have talked about
concerts. When Bill Gaither comes
to town he sells 10,000 plus tickets at a concert for southern gospel
music.
8710 We have consistently
exceeded the Canadian content requirements in our format. We will provide $112,000 in Canadian
talent development for gospel music.
8711 We want to thank the
Commission so much for hearing us, and we want to thank the staff for helping us
understand this policy. And we're
sorry. I'm a German and sometimes
my German stubbornness and thick‑headedness gets in the way, and I
apologize.
8712 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: Well, I'm half Irish and
I can take on any stubborn German any time.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
8713 COMMISSIONER
LANGFORD: So, we're not
offended.
8714 MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank you.
8715 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr.
Hunsperger.
8716 This completes the
fourth phase. I want to thank every
one of the applicants for their discipline, the quality of their presentation
and also for the quality of the interventions that also we heard
today.
8717 We will adjourn this
meeting until Monday morning at nine o'clock and we will then start with the
applications for Lethbridge.
8718 Thank
you.
‑‑‑ Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1700,
to resume
on Monday, February 27, 2006
at 0900 / L'audience
est ajournée à 1700, pour
reprendre le lundi 27
février 2006 à
0900
REPORTERS
_____________________
_____________________
Doug Lebel
Lynda Johansson
_____________________
_____________________
Fiona Potvin
Beverley Dillabough