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                   TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
             FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND
                 TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

                TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU
                 CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
             ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

                       SUBJECT / SUJET:

                       PUBLIC HEARING ON
            THIRD LANGUAGE AND ETHNIC PROGRAMMING /
                     AUDIENCE PUBLIQUE SUR
     LA PROGRAMMATION MULTILINGUE ET À CARACTÈRE ETHNIQUE

HELD AT:                                TENUE À:

Dunsmuir Seniors Centre                 Dunsmuir Seniors Centre
411 Dunsmuir Street                     411 Dunsmuir Street
Vancouver, B.C.                         Vancouver (C.-B.)

February 1, 1999                        Le 1er février 1999

                          Volume  1
tel: 613-521-0703         StenoTran         fax: 613-521-7668

Transcripts

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

Transcription

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.

tel: 613-521-0703         StenoTran         fax: 613-521-7668

                 Canadian Radio-television and
                 Telecommunications Commission

              Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
                télécommunications canadiennes

                  Transcript / Transcription

              Public Hearing / Audience publique

            Third Language and Ethnic Programming /
       Programmation multilingue et à caractère ethnique

BEFORE/DEVANT:

C. Grauer                               Chairperson / Présidente
A. Cardozo                              Commissioner / Conseiller

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

M. Vogel                                Secretary / Secrétaire
D. Jones                                Legal Counsel/Conseillers
G. Batstone                             juridiques

                          Volume  1
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                              ii
            TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES

                                                         PAGE

Presentation by / Présentation par:

Rogers Cablesystems Limited                                 5

Canadian-Hispanic Congress                                 14

Calvin Koat                                                18

Valerie Dare                                               27

Affiliation of Multicultural Societies                     31
  and Service Agencies

O.K. Radio Group                                           42

The Cambodian Community in Vancouver                       50

Hardeep Dhaliwal                                           56

Rogers Multicultural Service (Iranian Program)             60

Anup Singh Jubbal                                          66

SUCCESS (United Chinese Community Enrichment               71
  Services Society)

YWCA                                                       79

Wendy Au                                                   88

Mason Loh                                                  97

The Agape Christian Team of Canada                        105

Community Advisory Council for                            109
  South Asian Productions

Fairchild Media Group                                     114

The Vancouver and Lower Mainland Multicultural            122
  Family Support Services

Meena and Anand Paranjpe                                  127

Civil Youth Strategy Group                                135

David Ali                                                 144

Nancy Li                                                  144

tel: 613-521-0703         StenoTran         fax: 613-521-7668

                             1

 1                         Vancouver, B.C. / Vancouver (C.-B.)
 2     --- Upon commencing on Monday, February 1, 1999
 3         at 1603 / L'audience débute le lundi 1er février
 4         1999 à 1603
 5  1                    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good evening,
 6     ladies and gentlemen.  Welcome to this series of public
 7     consultations the CRTC is holding to review its ethnic
 8     broadcasting.  I am Cindy Grauer and allow me to
 9     introduce my colleague Andrew Cardozo.  We are both
10     CRTC Commissioners.
11  2                    For the next three days, today,
12     tomorrow and Wednesday, my Commission colleagues and I
13     will be listening to the comments and views presented
14     by the participants in these consultations, here in
15     Vancouver, as well as in Montreal, Halifax, Toronto,
16     and Winnipeg.  We will also be receiving written
17     comments and documents by e-mail.  All submissions,
18     both oral and written, will form part of the public
19     record.
20     Objective of the consultations
21  3                    These consultations are part of a
22     process the CRTC began two years ago to review its
23     major policies for the Canadian broadcasting system,
24     including television and radio.
25  4                    The goal of these consultations is to
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                             2

 1     help the CRTC examine the policies and regulations that
 2     were established in 1985 when a Broadcasting Policy
 3     Reflecting Canada's Cultural and Linguistic Diversity
 4     was issued.  One of the most important goals of this
 5     policy is to ensure that the Canadian broadcasting
 6     system serves the needs and interests of all Canadians
 7     by reflecting their ethnocultural diversity in an
 8     effective manner.
 9  5                    However, since this policy was
10     issued, Canada's demographic profile has changed
11     considerably, and the amount of third language and
12     ethnic programming available in the Canadian
13     broadcasting system has increased substantially.
14  6                    By looking into these issues around
15     ethnic broadcasting, we are asking:  are the goals of
16     the current policy still valid?  And, is the policy
17     still effective in attaining these goals?
18  7                    Public Notice 1998-135 set out a
19     series of questions and invited your views in response. 
20     We are ready to hear your comments.  But, before we do,
21     allow me to go on to some housekeeping matters
22     regarding the conduct of this consultation.
23     Housekeeping matters
24  8                    CRTC staff assisting us during this
25     consultation are Geoff Batstone, Dylan Jones and
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                             3

 1     Marguerite Vogel, who is Director of our Western and
 2     Territories Regional Office, she will be our secretary. 
 3     I invite you to call on them with any questions you may
 4     have, including any questions about the process today,
 5     and for the rest of the proceeding.
 6  9                    Our intention is to have the session
 7     run until all participants have been heard.  The
 8     secretary will call each presenter in order.  If you
 9     want to make a presentation, but have not registered in
10     advance, please let the secretary know.  Time
11     permitting, we will try to fit you into the schedule.
12  10                   I also want to add here that in the
13     interest of ensuring that we hear from all of you and
14     hear fully your comments, we will not be asking
15     questions unless we have important questions of
16     clarification.  And I think it's important, we want to
17     stress to you that doesn't reflect a lack of interest
18     on our part, but rather a desire to ensure that we hear
19     from you at these consultations.
20  11                   To ensure that all parties have an
21     opportunity to make a presentation, we ask that you
22     limit your comments to ten minutes.
23  12                   The proceedings will be transcribed
24     and the transcript will form part of the record upon
25     which the Commission makes its decision.  So that the
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                             4

 1     people responsible for this task can provide an
 2     accurate record, I would ask that, when you speak, you
 3     press the small red button on the microphone in front
 4     of you.  This activates the microphone, and is
 5     indicated by a red light.
 6  13                   For those of you who prefer to submit
 7     your comments in writing, comment cards are available
 8     at the back of the room, and from the secretary.  If
 9     you have any comments you would like to pass on, just
10     write them on a card, sign it and give it to the
11     secretary before the end of the session.
12  14                   I'd also like to add that anyone can
13     file any written submissions or comments with the
14     Commission until March 4th, I believe that's the
15     outside deadline for submissions.
16  15                   We also will, perhaps, take a short
17     five minute break in about an hour and a half, and then
18     maybe a half an hour dinner break around 6:30.  We'll
19     really judge how we're doing with the time and how
20     we're moving through the presenters when we have these
21     breaks.
22  16                   Now, Madame Secretary, if we can call
23     the first presenter.
24  17                   THE SECRETARY:  Thank you,
25     Commissioner Grauer.
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                             5

 1  18                   A word, first, of how we're planning
 2     to schedule the presenters.  We would like as many
 3     people as there are microphones to be around the table
 4     at the same time.  So with that in mind, I will call
 5     names, and this is, of course, in order to cut down on
 6     commute time, because we'll have about ten people
 7     around the table.  All ten people will present and when
 8     they are finished, then they can make room for the next
 9     group of ten.
10  19                   So I would just like to confirm that
11     the following people are around the table.  We have
12     Vera Piccini, Collette Watson, Rosanna Obando, Ignatio
13     Ponce de Lion, Calvin Koat, Valerie Dare, Vera Radyo --
14     is Anup Singh Jubbal here? -- Stuart Morton, Diana
15     Parker and Brian Blackburn, Phangsy Nou -- is Lilian To
16     in the room?  Not yet, okay -- Hardeep Dhaliwal, would
17     you like to come up with this group?  Thank you very
18     much.
19  20                   And I think that takes care of the
20     number of microphones that we have available.  Thank
21     you very much.
22  21                   I would now invite Vera Piccini to
23     make her presentation.
24     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
25  22                   MS PICCINI:  Thank you.  My name is
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                             6

 1     Vera Piccini and I am the Acting Vice President and
 2     General Manager for Rogers Cablesystems in B.C.  With
 3     me today is Collette Watson, the national Vice
 4     President of Programming and Public Relations for
 5     Rogers Cablesystems.
 6  23                   First of all, let me say how much we
 7     appreciate the opportunity provided by these public
 8     consultations and the honour of going first.  The issue
 9     of ethnic broadcasting is one that is very close to our
10     hearts and one in which Rogers Cablesystems has a great
11     deal of experience.  While we don't have time today to
12     cover many of the issues and questions raised in the
13     Public Notice, we will be filing detailed comments in
14     the second phase of this proceeding.  Our sister
15     company, Rogers Broadcasting, the licensee of CFMT-TV
16     Toronto, Canada's only multilingual television
17     broadcasting station, will be appearing in Toronto
18     later this week, and will address a number of issues
19     relevant to the broadcasting side of Rogers operations.
20  24                   Today, we, as Rogers Cable, want to
21     focus on three key areas.  One, our experience, as a
22     cable company, in satisfying the needs of ethnocultural
23     audiences on a local level; two, our track record in
24     offering ethnic programming services on a national
25     level; and, three, the role of ethnic programming
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                             7

 1     services in a digital world.
 2  25                   Satisfying Local Needs; Rogers
 3     Multicultural Channel.
 4  26                   Probably everyone in this room is
 5     familiar with the Rogers Multicultural Channel.  It has
 6     been a Lower Mainland institution for twenty years,
 7     currently available to over 620,000 customers.  When we
 8     started in 1979, we had access to only part of a
 9     channel, sharing space with other programming and
10     scheduling our multicultural programs solely in the
11     evenings.  Today, we are on the air 16 and a half hours
12     a day, offering quality international entertainment,
13     news, drama and sports programs from around the world.
14  27                   Normally, I would hesitate to read
15     into the record a long list, but I do believe it is
16     worth making an exception in the case of the nearly 30
17     languages which make up our multicultural channel. 
18     This list demonstrates the breadth and diversity of the
19     Rogers Multicultural B.C. audience.  Last fall's
20     schedule -- highly representative of the Canadian
21     mosaic -- included the following languages:
22  28                   Armenian, Cantonese, Danish, Dari,
23     English, Farsi, Finnish, German, Hindi, Hindustani,
24     Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Korea, Mandarin,
25     Norwegian, Pashto, Polish, Portugese, Punjabi,
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                             8

 1     Romanian, Serbian, Spanish, Swedish, Pilipino, and
 2     Urdu.
 3  29                   The Rogers Multicultural Channel
 4     programming is cosmopolitan -- as are our viewers.  The
 5     programming schedule is a mix of the linguistic and
 6     cross-cultural programs reflecting the diversity of
 7     language and culture in the Lower Mainland.  As an
 8     example, there's children's programming, such as the
 9     Korean puppet show "Once upon a Time"; highly-rated
10     international variety entertainment such as the popular
11     series from the Philippines, "Eezy Dancing", and music
12     shows from Italy, India, Latin America and Iran.
13  30                   Interestingly, a small percentage of
14     our audience speaks only English, yet enjoys watching
15     our multilingual programming for a variety of reasons. 
16     Some of these viewers have a spouse with a different
17     cultural background, others are in language classes for
18     personal or business reasons and wish to practice their
19     skills at comprehension, and still others view it as
20     armchair travel to distant countries.
21  31                   We stay in touch with our viewers'
22     needs through the Rogers Multicultural Response Line
23     which is a 24-hour-a-day voice-mail service.  This
24     gives us a clearer window on our viewers' opinions,
25     their likes and their dislikes, and their suggestions
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                             9

 1     for programming on the channel.  For example, our
 2     recent move to include more programming with English
 3     sub-titles was a direct response to viewer feedback.
 4  32                   A multicultural channel such as ours
 5     achieves three key objectives.  One, links viewers to
 6     their origin nations; two, promotes cross-cultural
 7     understanding; and, three, strengthens and unites an
 8     ethnocultural community.
 9  33                   But this doesn't mean that we can be
10     all things to all people -- nor does it mean that we
11     should be the only game in town.  We are neither an
12     access channel nor a community television station...
13     and we are certainly not a commercial multilingual
14     station.  We are a special programming service that
15     endeavours, with limited resources, to reach our
16     viewers through a mix of linguistic and cross-cultural
17     programs.
18  34                   We know there is an audience in the
19     Lower Mainland for more ethnocultural programming.  We
20     believe that the time and the demographics are right
21     for the licensing of another station in this market,
22     one which would have the deeper pockets necessary to
23     provide more extensive, high quality Canadian
24     programming in languages other than English and French. 
25     This is an expensive proposition and beyond the
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                             10

 1     financial means of a channel such as ours.  We would
 2     not consider a commercial, local, multilingual station
 3     to be a competitor.  We could never hope to achieve the
 4     level of Canadian content that such a broadcaster would
 5     be required to carry.  And many of the producers who
 6     have contributed to our success over the years would
 7     welcome the opportunities that such a television
 8     station would bring to the Vancouver area.
 9  35                   Collette...?
10  36                   Community Television Programming.
11  37                   MS WATSON:  This year both the CRTC
12     and Rogers Community Television stations celebrate
13     their 30th anniversaries.  One of the cornerstones of
14     community television is its ability to reflect Canada's
15     ethnocultural diversity in an effective way.  This
16     valued contribution that Canadian cable operators make
17     to the Canadian broadcasting system fulfils a vital
18     niche in our markets.  For our part, by providing
19     access to facilities, training and staff, Rogers
20     community stations are able to encourage the production
21     of locally relevant multicultural programming in many
22     of our systems.
23  38                   In B.C., the Community Channel
24     provides approximately one and a half hours of
25     multicultural programming per week, and ranges from
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                             11

 1     discussion of cross-cultural issues, to local events
 2     and celebrations.  For example, "Cross Cultural", a
 3     half hour weekly program, covers a variety of
 4     multicultural topics in the community mostly done in
 5     English.
 6  39                   In Ottawa, there are 23 diverse
 7     ethnic groups who produce mother tongue programs on
 8     each of the English and French community channels.  In
 9     addition, the Italian community has a weekly one hour
10     time slot on the English community channel.
11  40                   In Toronto, "Diverse City" is a
12     lighter exploration of cross-cultural issues in
13     Toronto.  In addition, 16 different ethnic groups
14     produce mother tongue programming for the weekly
15     multicultural time block on this community channel.
16     2. Ethnic Programming Services on a Regional and
17     National Level
18  41                   In the spring of 1996, the Commission
19     outlined its policy dealing with the issues of access
20     by Canadian programming services to broadcast
21     distribution undertakings.  The guiding principle of
22     this policy was that broadcast distributors must give
23     priority to the distribution of services of licensed
24     Canadian programming undertakings appropriate for their
25     specific markets.  This includes ethnic programming
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                             12

 1     services where the distributor is operating in a market
 2     in which 10 percent or more of the total population is
 3     of one of the ethnic origins to which the service is
 4     intended to appeal.
 5  42                   Rogers strongly believes in the role
 6     of specialized ethnic programming services in the
 7     Canadian broadcasting system.  Currently we carry
 8     Telelatino in all our systems in the Greater Toronto
 9     Area and Southwest Ontario.  We are offering Fairchild
10     in Toronto/Peel and Etobicoke -- even though the target
11     audience is significantly less than 10 percent of the
12     population -- and we carry it here in most of our
13     systems in British Columbia.  We also carry
14     Talentvision in the majority of our B.C. systems.
15  43                   While we would like to be able to
16     offer every programming service that is authorized for
17     carriage in our markets, we are currently constrained
18     by limited analog channel capacity.  We are making
19     significant ongoing investments to meet our customers'
20     expectations for more choice and better service.  And
21     we are introducing our digital offering this year,
22     which will significantly expand our channel capacity
23     and programming choice.
24  44                   Vera...?
25     3.  Ethnic Programming Services in a Digital World
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                             13

 1  45                   MS PICCINI:  Rogers Cable believes
 2     that the expanded channel capacity resulting from
 3     digitization should allow the introduction of
 4     additional foreign ethnic specialty services.  To this
 5     end, we would urge the Commission to remove the
 6     moratorium on the addition of any new foreign ethnic
 7     services to the Lists of Eligible Satellite Services
 8     from digital distribution only.  There are a number of
 9     attractive programming services which, if added to the
10     digital programming line-up, would have the dual
11     benefit of helping to drive the penetration of digital,
12     as well as contributing to programming diversity in
13     this country.
14  46                   In closing, to celebrate the 20th
15     anniversary of the Rogers Multicultural Channel, we are
16     proud to be relaunching the channel with a new look and
17     a new format as part of Multiculturalism Week
18     activities which begin on February the 14th in British
19     Columbia.
20  47                   Thank you, and we would be pleased to
21     answer any questions.
22  48                   THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
23     much, Ms Piccini.  We don't have any questions for you
24     today.
25  49                   Thank you.
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 1  50                   THE SECRETARY:  I would now invite
 2     Rosanna Obando and Ignatio Ponce de Lion to make their
 3     presentation.
 4     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 5  51                   MS OBANDO:  Rosanna Obando et nos
 6     sécretaire aux des Canadiennes-Hispanic Congress.
 7  52                   Basically, there are several reasons
 8     why should be a third language and ethnocultural
 9     production on the air.  Primarily, as a consideration
10     to reflect Canada's linguistic and ethnocultural
11     diversity.  Hispanics in Vancouver often say, "We like
12     Canada and we are glad to have the richness of this
13     country, but we are still to have fulfil our needs,
14     too".  That is we need to nurture and promote our
15     values, traditions and heritage without forgetting that
16     the Spanish is our mother tongue and is part of our own
17     lives and realities in Canada.
18  53                   Hispanics are active and positive
19     people.  More than 20 Spanish speaking countries. 
20     Hispanic men and women often express interest in each
21     other for the art, education, jobs, entertainment,
22     sports events and we also share these with Canadians
23     alike at large.
24  54                   According to the National Census in
25     1996, the top ten languages in Canada after the English
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                             15

 1     and French in order of importance are:  Chinese,
 2     Italian, German, Spanish, Polish, Punjabi,
 3     Pargolote (ph), Vietnamese, and Korean.
 4  55                   The third language and ethnic
 5     production is an issue that should have primary
 6     consideration to reflect Canada's linguistic and
 7     cultural diversity.  Again, more than 50 of the
 8     Canadian population is of an origin which is not
 9     English or French, and this reflects the demographic
10     profile of our country.
11  56                   Conventional television requires a
12     large viewing audience in order to secure the financial
13     support of advertisers.  The satisfaction is placed
14     from values in the cultural communities has strongly
15     proclaimed the need for a multicultural content.
16  57                   New hard-take media is important,
17     too.  There are still audiences who are not satisfied
18     with the information provided through conventional
19     programming on television in their third language, are
20     turning to the Internet for information.  Their rigid
21     framing of programming is forcing customers to switch
22     to a third language at the live services, thus losing
23     audiences.
24  58                   Third language communities have
25     considerable and have today creative broadcasting
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                             16

 1     material to supply to mainstream channels.  The global
 2     economy includes a worldwide exchange of ethnic
 3     communities who are using the information for the
 4     television as the media of communication.  But, at the
 5     same time, they are losing the right to use the media
 6     on television on their own language.  Ethnic
 7     communities require a specific and useful information
 8     in their third language to meet their basic needs. 
 9     Ethnic communities more claim a huge amount of
10     information as soon they arrives in Canada.  Television
11     is a valuable contribution to the needs of immigrants
12     for learning the English language, as well as a means
13     to cope with the cultural shock after leaving their
14     countries.
15  59                   The main purpose of having a third
16     language channel is to become involved and allow for
17     the involvement of the mainstream community, but
18     promoting more activities role through the development
19     and implementation of educative programs.
20  60                   Canadian broadcasters should follow
21     the new Broadcasting Act which came into force on June
22     4, 1991, in which the Commission was given the
23     additional responsibility of ensuring that the
24     industry, through its programs and employment
25     opportunity arising out its operations reflect the
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 1     specific characteristics of Canadian society.
 2  61                   Thank you very much.  Now, another
 3     member of the Congress.
 4  62                   MR. PONCE DE LION:  Good afternoon
 5     Members of the CRTC.
 6  63                   I would like to thank you, first, for
 7     the opportunity that your Commission is giving us.  We
 8     came this afternoon to review the 1985 policy on third
 9     language and ethnic broadcasting in Canada.
10  64                   Your communication of December the
11     10th inviting the different ethnic communities today
12     reinforces the fact that these communities have grown
13     over the past few years, that their demographic profile
14     has changed and their needs to be informed increased
15     and the capacity of keeping everyone informed has
16     decreased and is limited.
17  65                   That's why the ethnic communities in
18     Canada should have their own way to inform each new
19     members of their communities in their own language and
20     in their own ethnic multicultural broadcasting
21     programming.
22  66                   We are not here today looking for a
23     space in the media to reinforce our culture in Canada;
24     we are here today because our communities need to share
25     a space that is going to provide enough accurate
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                             18

 1     information as fast as possible to the new landed
 2     immigrants to help them integrate -- to help integrate
 3     them and their families into society, avoiding extra
 4     cost to the system.
 5  67                   As a member of the 1999
 6     Canadian-Hispanic Congress Branch of B.C. and as a
 7     landed immigrant of this country and on behalf of each
 8     community, I wish to thank you for your consideration
 9     and for the opportunity to come before you today.  We
10     look forward to all communities working together,
11     meeting our goals.
12  68                   Thank you.
13  69                   THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
14     much, Ms Obando and Mr. Ponce de Lion.
15  70                   THE SECRETARY:  I now invite Calvin
16     Koat to make his presentation.
17     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
18  71                   MR. KOAT:  Just to start, I'd like to
19     say that on the itinerary, it should read "Contemporary
20     Multicultural Radio and Type 'E' Programming: The
21     Future of the Format".  I think a long title like that,
22     we kind of ran out of room, so...
23  72                   Madame and Monsieur Commissions,
24     broadcast colleagues and members of the public, my name
25     is Cal Koat.  I'm a 20 year veteran of broadcasting in
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                             19

 1     Greater Vancouver with over 12 years experience in
 2     multicultural radio where my work continues at the
 3     present time.  But this evening, I'm addressing you as
 4     a private individual with a deep and abiding interest
 5     in this very special form of radio broadcasting.
 6                                                        1630
 7  73                   It's encouraging to me that the CRTC
 8     has organized this review in such timely fashion, for I
 9     believe that multicultural radio has arrived at a
10     crossroads and it must re-examine and restructure its
11     role, in light of society's changing needs, if this
12     format is to survive and flourish in the next century.
13  74                   AM 1470, CJVB, Vancouver's premier
14     multicultural radio station, launched in 1972 and I
15     listened vicariously through my parents who, like many
16     northern European immigrants, tuned in for
17     variety-style programming in their native tongue. 
18     Today, the first generation of listeners to
19     multicultural radio are fading away and the second
20     generation, my generation, has become largely
21     assimilated into our Canadian culture, consumers of
22     mainstream media.  Personally, however, I can attest to
23     a sense of cultural identity and pride which could
24     still be touched by multicultural radio if it were
25     targeted appropriately.
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 1  75                   First and second generation
 2     immigrants remain the primary audience groups for
 3     multicultural radio, but as the vision of a global
 4     village becomes realized through new technology and as
 5     the mosaic of our multicultural society becomes more
 6     diverse, there is an increasing thirst, among the
 7     general populace, for a better understanding of
 8     different cultures and an appreciation for their
 9     artistic expressions.  This is probably what has lead
10     to the current phenomenon in music called "World Music"
11     or "Worldbeat", the fastest growing musical genre in
12     the market.
13  76                   Consumers of "World Music" feel
14     disenfranchised by the proliferation of "Adult
15     Contemporary" and "Hit" radio stations and seek an
16     alternative which appeals to their global
17     sensibilities.  These individuals represent a new
18     audience segment for multicultural radio and lend
19     direction to ethnic radio broadcasters for the future
20     of the format.
21  77                   Keeping in mind the needs of these
22     three segments of society, which make up today's
23     multicultural radio audience, I'd like to identify what
24     I see to be the challenges facing Canada's ethnic
25     broadcasters.
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 1  78                   When your business is diversity,
 2     consistency becomes your greatest challenge.  Listeners
 3     what the convenience of hearing their kind of
 4     programming at the times they tune in the radio. 
 5     Advertisers in a competitive market require the
 6     confidence of long time blocks of guaranteed
 7     listenership in which to place their commercials.
 8  79                   Ethnic radio broadcasters licensed to
 9     serve a particularly high number of cultural
10     communities -- some with commitments of more than 20 in
11     their condition of licence -- have great difficulty in
12     generating longer listening blocks.  Out of 20 or more
13     communities served, an ethnic broadcaster may identify
14     only one or two which have a large enough population
15     base and an economic vibrancy to attract corporate
16     advertisers and show potential for profit.
17  80                   Obviously, the broadcaster will
18     devote the bulk of his sales, marketing and promotional
19     resources toward the development of programming for
20     these communities.  The remaining majority of cultural
21     programs must either be subsidized by the profitable
22     programming or maintained through brokerage agreements.
23  81                   Brokerages create their own
24     challenges.  Since brokers purchase airtime from the
25     licensee, outside of adhering to the codes all
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 1     commercial broadcasters are subject to, they may assume
 2     autonomy over their broadcasting time period.  This
 3     makes it difficult for station programmers to
 4     coordinate brokered programs with the rest of the
 5     broadcast schedule.  Further, if mainstream advertisers
 6     are uninterested in this brokered program, the
 7     potential for station-generated revenues in that time
 8     block is capped at the brokered rate for the airtime
 9     alone.
10  82                   In order for the brokers themselves
11     to be successful, they must be certain of sustaining
12     advertising revenues from within their target community
13     to cover the costs of airtime.  Without this cash flow,
14     the broker can quickly fall into a cycle of mounting
15     debt to the licensee and eventually have to back ut of
16     the agreement.  Ultimately, it's another cultural
17     community which suffers the loss of radio service.
18  83                   The remaining majority of subsidized
19     programs on the weekly schedule have little opportunity
20     to become profitable, through no fault of the licensee. 
21     Since sales, marketing and promotional resources are
22     being necessarily funnelled into the profit-making
23     shows, subsidized programs are maintained with a
24     minimal amount of effort and occupy as little time as
25     possible on the schedule.  The producers of these
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                             23

 1     programs -- many of which are volunteers -- can become
 2     easily disillusioned by the lack of support for their
 3     efforts and simply walk away from their shows, leaving
 4     a hole in the station's schedule, and leaving the
 5     licensee scrambling to find an appropriate
 6     substitution.
 7  84                   Today's multicultural radio
 8     programming grid has become a very inconsistent,
 9     tenuous patchwork of programs with little opportunity
10     for sustained listenership.  I believe, in order to
11     stabilize and improve this situation, the Commission
12     needs to re-evaluate its policy concerning the five
13     types of ethnic programming and allow licensees the
14     freedom to effectively arrange their broadcast
15     schedules.
16  85                   And rather than maintaining an
17     ever-changing and growing number of pockets of specific
18     third language programs to less profitable, smaller
19     communities, ethnic broadcasters should be allowed to
20     develop a broader, more consistent service, inclusive
21     of all cultural communities.  This could be achieved if
22     Type E programming were counted toward their minimum
23     weekly requirement of ethnic programs in their
24     Condition of License.
25  86                   Utilizing music as the international
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                             24

 1     language, Type E programming can touch first generation
 2     immigrants, the second and subsequent generations, as
 3     well as disenfranchised mainstream listeners seeking a
 4     contemporary radio alternative.  Type E programming
 5     opens up ethnic radio to a much broader listener base
 6     and encourages sustained listenership through
 7     consistency.
 8  87                   I can still remember AM 1470, CJVB's
 9     original marketing philosophy, encapsulated in the
10     phrase "radio for all Canadians".  In light of Canada's
11     increasing cultural diversity, it appears to me that
12     Type E programming should play a much larger role if
13     multicultural radio is to better reflect Canadian
14     society through enlightenment, awareness and
15     understanding.  It also makes this important service
16     more complimentary to the other resources technology
17     has made available to ethnic communities.
18  88                   Briefly, on ethnic television, a
19     picture is worth a thousand words, and moving pictures
20     speak volumes no matter what your language.  Television
21     can better provide a comprehensive service to a wide
22     array of cultural communities without alienating other
23     segments of their viewing audience.  SCMO licenses,
24     while hindered by our west coast topography and the
25     immobility of the system can provide specialized
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                             25

 1     language programming to communities who show need for a
 2     24-hour specific third language service.
 3  89                   Public and campus radio operate at
 4     low power and can offer only limited service to a few
 5     cultural communities living within a tight geographical
 6     are.  I also don't think it's reasonable to rely on
 7     mainstream radio to "take up the slack".
 8  90                   Currently, mainstream broadcasters
 9     may devote up to 15 percent of their weekly schedules
10     to programming in Types A to D.  Yet, in Vancouver, no
11     mainstream broadcaster, to my knowledge, has taken
12     advantage of this opportunity.  It makes sense that for
13     the sake of consistency, they have no desire to
14     alienate their established audience with the inclusion
15     of third language programming.
16  91                   The advent of the Internet presents a
17     strong argument for re-analyzing the very nature of
18     multicultural radio.  News and current events from "the
19     homeland" are abundant and accessible on the Net.  A
20     music intensive, Type E radio program would compliment
21     this information service nicely.
22  92                   To illustrate, a Canadian of Finnish
23     heritage could sit down at the computer with a cup of
24     coffee, scan the daily newspapers hot off the press in
25     Helsinki, while listening to the exciting next
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                             26

 1     generation of Finnish folk music from groups like
 2     "Hednigarna" or "Varttina" -- part of a Worldbeat-style
 3     Type E radio program on "real audio".
 4  93                   A greater emphasis on cross-cultural
 5     programming will also fill a void in the promotion of
 6     Canadian ethnic music talent.  Vancouver, for instance,
 7     has the international reputation as "The World Music
 8     Capital".  Strangely, the people least aware of that
 9     fact are living here on the West Coast.  Radio
10     programming reflective of our cultural diversity can
11     spotlight, not only local talent from specific ethnic
12     backgrounds, but the many gifted artists who are fusing
13     different cultural elements together into new forms of
14     musical expression.
15  94                   Type E programming can also be
16     readily woven into ethnic radio's existing broadcast
17     schedules along with Types B, C and D to create longer
18     blocks of listening time with more universal appeal,
19     increasing the broadcaster's potential for making the
20     programming, outside of their Type A breadwinners, also
21     self-sufficient.
22  95                   Nevertheless, ethnic radio, like
23     mainstream radio, must be able to positively identify
24     its listeners if it's to attract revenues from agencies
25     and corporate advertisers.  Here in Vancouver, a new,
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 1     contemporary, music-intensive form of multicultural
 2     radio is already cultivating an enthusiastic audience. 
 3     Some listeners attest to tuning in for nine hours at a
 4     stretch through five different cultural programs --
 5     unheard of in ethnic radio.  But without survey
 6     information, it's impossible to estimate their numbers.
 7  96                   As a show of commitment to these
 8     listeners, out of respect for the licensees who took a
 9     chance on such a bold new approach and in deference to
10     the Commission, who seek direction for the industry, it
11     would seem such a survey would be of great value.
12  97                   It's my hope that in addition to
13     these public consultations, the Commission will
14     consider underwriting an audience survey of Canadian
15     ethnic radio as a case study.
16  98                   Thank you very much for this
17     opportunity.
18  99                   THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
19     much, Mr. Koat.
20  100                  THE SECRETARY:  I'd now like to
21     invite Valerie Dare to make her presentation.
22     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23  101                  MS DARE:  Members of the CRTC.  I'm
24     listed as number 4, but I'm actually a very small "b"
25     under 3, because it was suggested by Cal that you might
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 1     be interested in hearing some of the ways in which
 2     ethnic broadcasting affects me and my work.
 3  102                  I'm a teacher/librarian at Britannia
 4     Secondary Community School, an inner-city school of
 5     about 1,000 students situated in East Vancouver, in the
 6     lowest socio-economic neighbourhood in Canada.
 7  103                  The student population represents 100
 8     ethnic groups speaking 40 different languages and 87
 9     percent speak English as a second language.  Because of
10     the ethnic diversity of our school, there is a
11     potential for either cultural harmony or racial
12     conflict, depending on how well the school programs
13     meet student needs.
14  104                  Anti-racist education and programs
15     that foster cultural understanding and appreciation are
16     therefore important features of the educational program
17     at Britannia.  They are offered as part of the
18     curriculum or through special programs that enhance and
19     enrich regular studies.
20  105                  In my work as a teacher/librarian, I
21     develop learning activities that reflect and celebrate
22     the multicultural nature of Britannia.  An approach I
23     have found particularly effective is to use music as a
24     way to investigate cultures.  I integrate music with
25     curriculum studies in many subject areas by developing
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 1     learning resources that encourage students to find out
 2     about the lives of people around the world.  An example
 3     is the unit "Rhythm of Resistance" which looked at the
 4     Apartheid regime of South Africa through the music
 5     which was both an outcome of and reaction to social
 6     brutalization.
 7  106                  Special World Music programs enhance
 8     students' experiences at Britannia.  "Sharing
 9     Cultures", a World Music symposium for international
10     backed laureate program students held last December
11     provided hands-on opportunities for young people to
12     work directly with artists to learn dances, play music
13     and build instruments.
14  107                  Another project will see the
15     construction of three sets of marimbas representing the
16     cultures of Southern Africa, West Africa and Latin
17     America.  Made in the woodwork shop under the guidance
18     of the woodwork teacher and a musician from each of the
19     cultures, the marimbas will provide authentic
20     instruments for use in music education classes.
21  108                  A final example is World Music Day, a
22     made-in-Vancouver event -- coming up on February the
23     18th, by the way -- that celebrates the contributions
24     to cultural understanding made by musicians from
25     diverse cultures.  At Britannia, we are collaborating
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 1     with the media and broadcasters, such as Fairchild
 2     Radio, to bring performances and classroom workshops to
 3     the school and an evening concert to the communities.
 4  109                  I am not a music specialist and yet
 5     I've established a small reputation in the specialized
 6     field of World Music education.  How have I learned
 7     what I need to know in order to develop curriculum
 8     materials and organize programs that are respectful and
 9     accurate?  I acquire knowledge and understanding by
10     talking to artists from the cultures, listening to
11     ethnic programming on CBC, Fairchild and co-op radio
12     stations and viewing ethnocultural television programs
13     on the CBC, Knowledge, Bravo!, Rogers and Vision.
14  110                  Type E programming is crucial for my
15     own personal knowledge, and in the transfer of that
16     knowledge to students in my school.  The
17     recommendations I wish to make therefore, pertain
18     mainly to Type E programming.  And I've got a list of
19     five of them, but I don't know if you want me to read
20     them out of just leave them with you.
21  111                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  You can leave them
22     with us or read them out, whatever's your preference.
23  112                  MS DARE:  Sure.  Okay.  I'll leave
24     them with you.
25  113                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  So thank you very
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 1     much --
 2  114                  MS DARE:  You're welcome.
 3  115                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- Ms Dare.
 4  116                  THE SECRETARY:  Would Vera Radyo make
 5     her presentation now, please?
 6     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 7  117                  MS RADYO:  Thank you.  Good afternoon
 8     Commissioners Grauer and Cardozo and thank you for the
 9     opportunity to appear before you.
10  118                  My name is Vera Radyo and I'm the
11     Executive Director of AMSSA or the Affiliation of
12     Multicultural Societies and Service Agencies of B.C.
13  119                  AMSSA is a non-profit coalition of 80
14     multicultural and immigrant serving organizations which
15     are on the front-line of serving ethnic communities in
16     our culturally diverse population throughout B.C.
17  120                  And I have to say that we have
18     trouble with the word "ethnic" because we are all
19     ethnic and we all have an ethnic background, but
20     because you refer to that in your questions and in the
21     title of this consultation, we do use it occasionally
22     in the brief, but our language, I guess, needs more
23     clarity, anyway...
24  121                  Our coalition represents all the
25     major community societies promoting multiculturalism
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 1     and anti-racism in our province.  Some of the
 2     organizations are large and well-known, such as
 3     SUCCESS, MOSAIC, Immigrant Services Society.  Some of
 4     our members are small and operate in outlying areas
 5     with a small budget and volunteer staff.  Some serve
 6     victims of torture, others focus on women's issues and
 7     most assist immigrants to participate in the
 8     socio-economic fabric of our communities.  All of our
 9     members are in the position of feeling the pulse of
10     diverse communities and readily share their concerns,
11     frustrations and visions.
12  122                  Thank you for taking this important
13     initiative and affording us the opportunity to share
14     those concerns, frustrations and visions with you. 
15     AMSSA is, we believe, in a unique position to assist
16     the Commission to review its policy on programming in
17     other languages to culturally diverse communities.
18     2.  Background
19  123                  We live in a world that is, put, as
20     we approach the 21st Century, which is quite different
21     from the one that the Commission faced even 15 years
22     ago when a broadcasting policy reflecting Canada's
23     cultural and linguistic diversity was issued on July
24     4th, 1985.  There have been major demographic and
25     technological changes that underscore the importance of
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 1     your task and the immensity of your challenge.
 2  124                  According to the 1996 Statistics
 3     Canada Census Data, the percentage of visible
 4     minorities has nearly doubled from 6.3 in '86 to 11.2
 5     in 1996.  In British Columbia in 1996, we had the
 6     second largest visible minority population in Canada
 7     after Ontario.  There were 661,000 persons in B.C. who
 8     were members of a visible minority group.  These
 9     individuals accounted for 18 percent of B.C.'s total
10     population, the highest proportion of any province.
11  125                  Although one-half of the province's
12     population resides in the Lower Mainland, approximately
13     85 percent of B.C.'s visible minority population does. 
14     AMSSA represents the entire province and we know that
15     there are large culturally diverse communities
16     throughout B.C.  However, the weight of the challenge
17     lies in the Lower Mainland.  Of the more than 630,000
18     immigrants in the Lower Mainland, 54 percent have
19     arrived within the last 15 years, according to the
20     Census, so now we're at '99, so it would be even higher
21     than that.  Who knows?  Perhaps with immigration closer
22     to 60 percent.  Creatively address the challenge
23     locally and there will be adaptable spin-offs which can
24     be applied elsewhere in the province.
25  126                  And we have included in the back,
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 1     Appendix of extrapolated information from the '96
 2     Census showing visible minorities in Vancouver, Lower
 3     Mainland Population by Mother Tongue and the Total
 4     Immigrant Population by Period.
 5  127                  We shall now address the three
 6     questions which the Commission has highlighted:
 7                            "To what extent does the present
 8                            broadcasting system adequately
 9                            serve Canada's ethnocultural
10                            communities?"
11  128                  Although the 1985 policy statement
12     and subsequent initiatives by the Commission and
13     broadcasters may have been well-intentioned, we are of
14     the opinion that the broadcasting system is not meeting
15     the needs of these diverse communities.  Our members
16     have surveyed the immigrant communities inquiring how
17     groups prefer to receive information regarding social
18     integration issues.  The results have strongly
19     indicated that communities would like to rely primarily
20     on the broadcast media, particularly television, to
21     assist them to glean the necessary information to make
22     crucial decisions in their adjustment to Canadian life. 
23     Sadly, for the most part, it is our opinion that that
24     assistance is lacking.
25  129                  Although some stations have made
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 1     attempts to use visible minority reporters, for
 2     examples, and that in itself has positive effects,
 3     those reports are not reflective of culturally diverse
 4     communities. They are by their nature, representations
 5     by the established news media with their own
 6     perspectives.  It is obvious that the station managers,
 7     the program directors, the decision makers and the
 8     power brokers represent the white middle class
 9     constituency which the station serves.  We strongly
10     recommend that when approving licenses, broadcasters
11     should be required to employ staff at all levels of
12     their organization that reflect the diversity of the
13     population being served.
14  130                  On the other end of the broadcast
15     spectrum is the Community Multicultural Channel, 
16     Channel 20, Rogers Cablesystems -- that made the
17     initial presentation -- which does a commendable job
18     but is under-resourced and operated by volunteers
19     resulting in variable quality broadcasting.  The manner
20     in which the programming is presented begs the
21     question:  How is it decided who gets access to the
22     outlet and equitable allotment of time and resources? 
23     Are any attempts made to reach out to the most
24     disenfranchised -- usually those less educated,
25     unfamiliar with access and the poor?  What are support
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 1     systems?  How and to what extent is training offered? 
 2     And what are the expectations of content?  And how is
 3     quality and contented monitored?  Where are the lines
 4     of accountability?
 5  131                  You know, we don't know the answers
 6     to these questions, and that's why we're asking them,
 7     but we have heard from our members concerns about these
 8     issues.
 9  132                  Also, if quality programs were
10     produced locally for the Greater Vancouver market, is
11     there a mechanism in place to share those programs with
12     other cable systems in the province?
13  133                  The second question:
14                            "Given the demographic changes
15                            that have taken place in Canada,
16                            how can the needs and interests
17                            of ethnocultural communities
18                            continue to be served?"
19  134                  We noted with keen interest that the
20     CRTC Chairperson, Françoise Bertrand, at the House of
21     Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage on
22     April 23rd, 1998, stated:
23                            "We believe Canadians are seeing
24                            the evolution of a new
25                            Commission.  The new CRTC will
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 1                            say 'regulate if it necessary',
 2                            but where appropriate, we would
 3                            prefer to let the industry
 4                            self-regulate under monitoring."
 5  135                  We urge the CRTC to determine that
 6     ethnocultural broadcasting is one area that requires an
 7     intervention and impetus to ensure that communities are
 8     well served.  Now is the time for the CRTC to make some
 9     bold policy statements and reinforce those ideals when
10     Promises of Performance or POP's are submitted and
11     licences are renewed.  We are sure that decisive,
12     creative measures can turn the tide and produce
13     worthwhile results of which we can all be proud and
14     pleased.  There would be no priority community channels
15     had not the CRTC stipulated their use.  Canadian
16     content has both been an attainable ideal and an
17     economic success.
18  136                  We are not suggesting an
19     iron-fisted-rule-by-regulation approach.  By its very
20     nature, ethnic broadcasting needs to be flexible and
21     reflective of various communities and subcultures. 
22     However, we are advocating a strong, pro-active,
23     supportive intervention.
24  137                  We recommend that an Ethnocultural
25     Broadcasting Advisory Council be established.  This
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 1     council would be a community-based, cross-cultural,
 2     multi-disciplinary organization and would function both
 3     as an ombuds person watchdog monitoring the system and
 4     a professional advisory board to assist various
 5     communities become actively involved in creative
 6     broadcasting.  With a few paid professionals and
 7     support staff, the council would be primarily composed
 8     of volunteer members from culturally diverse
 9     communities.  At CFRO-FM, Vancouver Co-op Radio, BCIT
10     broadcast students and community cable systems could
11     help provide hands-on training and experience. 
12     Vancouver's ethnic radio stations could both contribute
13     to and benefit from such a council.  The council would
14     ensure that a truly cooperative, multicultural approach
15     be applied to broadcasting to avoid "ghettoizing" the
16     ethnic voice.  The council would be a vehicle to
17     promote further understanding and invoke interaction
18     across ethnic lines for the common good of Canadian
19     society as a whole and the respective communities in
20     particular.  Common goals would be established and
21     individual differences would be accepted and
22     celebrated.
23  138                  AMSSA has been impressed by the
24     approach of CFMT-TV in Toronto.  The key features of
25     CFMT that we support are high quality professional
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 1     broadcasting, Canadian programming focusing on issues
 2     central to the communities, wide range of linguistic
 3     groups represented, central accountability, corporate
 4     philosophy promoting cross-cultural understanding and
 5     key Canadian values, and programming that assists the
 6     social integration of newcomers.  We are confident that
 7     the Lower Mainland could both emulate their success,
 8     learn from their operation and eventually share
 9     programming, either on a formal or informal networking
10     basis.
11  139                  One of the areas which gravely
12     concerns us is the use of SCMO signals being broadcast
13     from Washington State into the Lower Mainland in the
14     Punjabi language.  Our constituents inform us, and the
15     media confirm, the material being broadcast is hate and
16     violence mongering.  Although the role and function of
17     the CRTC is not to closely monitor all on-air signals,
18     let alone SCMO signals from another country, we urge
19     the CRTC to take decisive action and refer the matter
20     to the proper governing bodies.  One of the functions
21     of the proposed Ethnocultural Broadcasting Council
22     might well be to monitor such broadcasts and lodge
23     complaints when necessary.
24                            "Should there be a priority on
25                            the development of Canadian
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 1                            ethnocultural services rather
 2                            than importing foreign
 3                            services?"
 4  140                  In a word:  Absolutely.  If
 5     middle-class, English speaking, white Canadians have
 6     the choice of watching 50-plus TV channels, it could be
 7     argued that culturally diverse communities should also
 8     have the option of watching a much greater diversity of
 9     television programming than they now have access to.
10  141                  There are two reasons why the
11     appalling practice of filling time slots resorts to
12     foreign programs, and neither of them relates to a
13     nostalgic longing for the homeland.  In the first
14     place, it is the easiest way to do "ethnic" programming
15     and outlets will often seek the path of least
16     resistance.  Secondly, the ethnic communities often
17     lack the resources, training, contacts and experience
18     in the Canadian system to produce their own quality
19     programming.  The proposed council could take definite
20     steps to ensure that outlets live up to their Promise
21     of Performance and that groups that are assisted in
22     obtaining their own Canadian programming.  A "Canadian
23     content" guideline needs to be established to ensure
24     that the path of least resistance is not pursued.  A
25     multilingual broadcast quality TV outlet would be a
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 1     step in the right direction.
 2     4.  Conclusion
 3  142                  And in conclusion, I want to thank
 4     you for this opportunity to appear before you and if
 5     you have questions, we'd be pleased to try and answer
 6     them and also if you feel there are areas you would
 7     like AMSSA to research, we would attempt to do so and
 8     forward our findings to you.
 9  143                  Thank you.
10  144                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms
11     Radyo.  I think Commissioner Cardozo has one question
12     of clarification.
13  145                  COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  I'm going to
14     break a rule and ask just one very quick question.
15  146                  When you talk about the Ethnocultural
16     Advisory Council, what was your thought about who would
17     set that up?
18  147                  MS RADYO:  Well, we thought it could
19     be something that could be mandated by CRTC and that
20     the various stations that, with their Promise of
21     Performance, could contribute financially to make it
22     happen, but that it would be a central operation and
23     that it, you know, almost like a -- we haven't given a
24     lot of thought to structure, but almost like a subset
25     of CRTC that it would help fulfil the mandate, but it
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 1     would be composed of people from the community, from a
 2     broad range of communities, and that it would help to
 3     look at the kinds of quality...
 4  148                  Like, we get complaints from people
 5     saying:  1)  they don't have access to some of the
 6     current programming when they want to do Canadian
 7     content and social integration issues.  We gets
 8     complaints about, you know, who's monitoring the
 9     content and, you know, how much Canadian content there
10     is.  So, an overseeing body and we think that the
11     cross-cultural linkages are really important.
12  149                  COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thanks very
13     much.
14  150                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms
15     Radyo.
16  151                  THE SECRETARY:  Would Stuart Morton
17     make his presentation, please?
18     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19  152                  MR. MORTON:  Thank you.
20  153                  Commissioners Grauer and Cardozo, my
21     name is Stu Morton, Vice President of the O.K. Radio
22     Group.  With me are Diana Parker, General Manager of
23     CKER-FM in Edmonton and Brian Blackburn, Vice President
24     of Sales for our company.
25  154                  O.K. Radio owns both mainstream and
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 1     ethnic radio stations.  We operate three mainstream FM
 2     stations in Alberta, as well as an AM/FM combo in
 3     Victoria.  CKER-FM is our ethnic station in Edmonton
 4     and has been serving that community since 1980.  We
 5     also have a 50 percent interest in partnership with
 6     Fairchild Media of Vancouver in two new ethnic FM
 7     stations, CHKG in Vancouver and CHKF in Calgary.
 8  155                  First let me say that we believe the
 9     Commission's ethnic policy is working.  Ethnic radio in
10     Canada has grown since the introduction of the policy
11     and continues to evolve and strengthen.
12  156                  In the process of reviewing ethnic
13     broadcasting, we believe it's essential to remember
14     that Canada's ethnic broadcast services are being
15     provided almost exclusively by independent private
16     broadcast operators.  These stations are business
17     operations that must achieve a firm level of
18     profitability.  In fact, the economic nature of ethnic
19     radio broadcasting is fundamentally the same as
20     mainstream broadcasting.  Radio is a mass medium. 
21     Canadian ethnic radio stations are advertiser supported
22     and as such are subject to the same economic dynamics
23     that every private radio station must address.
24  157                  Advertisers must be persuaded that a
25     sufficiently large definable audience exists on the
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 1     station and that is both a qualitative, as well as a
 2     quantitative challenge.  Advertisers need to understand
 3     the tangible nature of the audience, as well as its
 4     numerical size.  The station's audience has to make
 5     some sense on a qualitative level.  It must not be too
 6     fragmented and unconnected.
 7  158                  Advertisers generally prefer to use a
 8     specialized medium to reach the smaller more
 9     specialized audiences.  It's simply a matter of
10     advertising logic.  It makes more sense to direct your
11     entire radio budget at, for instance, the Chinese
12     community in Vancouver and use a more specialized
13     medium to reach other, smaller groups.
14  159                  MS PARKER:  In the programming area,
15     our experience is that ethnic radio audiences listen
16     and remain loyal to a station only if it serves as a
17     link to the homeland, but also keeps them informed at
18     the community level, as well as at the city,
19     provincial, national and international levels.  We
20     believe that no special rules are needed to ensure that
21     ethnic radio provides this kind of service.
22  160                  There is little need, in our view,
23     for a distinction between ethnic programming Types A,
24     B, C and D.  The market dictates the type of
25     programming that can sustain advertising revenue, and
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 1     that is generally Type A.
 2  161                  The 60 percent minimum requirement of
 3     current Types A to D ethnic programming may no longer
 4     be necessary in a new ethnic framework, as radio
 5     stations that are committed to this speciality
 6     programming generally broadcast well above the 60
 7     percent minimum.
 8  162                  The 40 percent or less of the weekly
 9     schedule that in the current policy need not contain
10     ethnic programming should, however, be left to the
11     discretion of each broadcaster.  On our Edmonton
12     station, for example, ethnic programming accounts for
13     over 72 percent of our weekly schedule, but paid
14     religious programming in English is still a significant
15     part of our total revenue.
16  163                  The audience for Type E programming
17     is very difficult, virtually impossible to define and
18     it is consequently not commercially viable.
19  164                  MR. MORTON:  We understand that some
20     ethnic communities may not feel that they have access
21     to their ideal level of service, we were recently
22     unable to provide more than an hour long program block
23     to a Polish producer who requested five hours on CHKG
24     in Vancouver.  Obviously, there are only so many hours
25     per week, many of which must be devoted to serving the
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 1     dominant ethnic community or the station risks being
 2     marginalized in terms of its relevance to its most
 3     important source of revenue.
 4  165                  Our Vancouver station must deal with
 5     the realities of serving the huge Chinese community. 
 6     That's what keeps the station in business.  It also
 7     uses up a great deal of the station's resources.  In
 8     fact, the resources needed to produce nine hours of
 9     Chinese programming in Vancouver are about the same as
10     those that would be needed to produce a typical 24-hour
11     schedule on any station, ethnic or otherwise.  That's
12     the fundamental reality of any ethnic radio station. 
13     German programming in Edmonton, Chinese programming in
14     Vancouver are only a portion of the weekly programming
15     schedule and yet the cost of producing these programs
16     is virtually the same as full-time programming in a
17     typical radio station.
18  166                  The financial results, in the case of
19     CKER in Edmonton is that it has never been able to
20     achieve operating income levels of more than two or
21     three percent of revenue.  In fact, we have subsidized
22     its operation from our mainstream stations almost
23     continuously over the past ten years.
24  167                  MR. BLACKBURN:  If ethnic radio is to
25     grow, it must be allowed to achieve firmer profit
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 1     levels in markets such as Edmonton and Vancouver. 
 2     Radio programming flexibility is the key to a stronger,
 3     healthier ethnic radio industry.
 4  168                  We believe there are conditions under
 5     which an ethnic station offering only one or two
 6     languages should be licensed, particularly in Canada's
 7     largest cities.  In smaller urban centres, such as
 8     Edmonton and Calgary, where stations tend to offer
 9     broadbased programming, there's still a need for the
10     station to find ways to control operating costs through
11     more streamlined programming.  In larger centres, such
12     as Vancouver, where very large linguistic and cultural
13     communities exist, stations must be totally immersed in
14     the culture of that one ethnic community.  This can
15     only be achieved by devoting virtually all of the
16     station's resources to programming in that language and
17     culture.
18                                                        1700
19  169                  There is an important role for
20     specialty media in serving ethnic communities.  SCMO,
21     the Internet, campus and community stations, as well as
22     cable can increasingly serve smaller ethnic groups. 
23     Webcasting on the Internet offers a tremendous
24     opportunity in this regard.  Wireless Internet services
25     are even starting to appear.  We have recently been
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 1     negotiating with a large locally based Internet
 2     provider on Vancouver Island who wishes to lease tower
 3     space for this type of service.  Webcasting offers a
 4     much lower cost platform that is more appropriate to
 5     smaller ethnic communities where the economies simply
 6     don't work in the traditional radio environment.
 7  170                  We believe that Webcasting can evolve
 8     as a tool for both the radio station and the ethnic
 9     community.  We can work with ethnic groups to partner
10     in developing web-based programming which in many cases
11     can be a springboard to regular programs over the air.
12  171                  MS PARKER:  With respect to music,
13     Canadian content requirements for recorded music in
14     languages other than English and French are a
15     particularly difficult challenge to our stations.
16  172                  The Commission has asked if the
17     availability of Canadian ethnic musical selections has
18     increased over the past 14 years.  Our answer is that
19     it has increased, but primarily in languages such as
20     Spanish, Italian, Portugese and Ukrainian.  There is
21     still virtually no material in Chinese, Polish and
22     other markets where the immigration patterns are
23     creating large population growth.
24  173                  Even at the existing 7 percent, the
25     lack of Canadian content results in the overuse of a
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 1     small amount of material.  Any increase would serve
 2     only to diminish the exposure of the large variety of
 3     music from international artists who represent the rich
 4     heritage of the ethnic audiences we are licensed to
 5     serve.
 6  174                  Our ethnic radio producers
 7     enthusiastically support and promote their own ethnic
 8     Canadian artists, whether they perform in English,
 9     French or a third language.  Many of these performers
10     have successful careers as club and/or concert artists
11     in Canada and elsewhere.  Canada's record companies do
12     not provide mass promotion and sales support for ethnic
13     music because the markets are too fragmented.
14  175                  Contemporary ethnic artists either
15     cross over into the mainstream market, or continue to
16     perform primarily for their own communities here and
17     abroad.  Raising the level of Canadian content on
18     ethnic radio will not create a Canadian ethnic
19     recording industry.
20  176                  MR. MORTON:  Thank you very much. 
21     That's our presentation and since you have no
22     questions, I guess we're done.
23  177                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
24     much.
25  178                  THE SECRETARY:  I would ask Phangsy
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 1     Nou to make her presentation now.
 2     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 3  179                  MS NOU:  Good evening ladies and
 4     gentlemen.  My name is Phangsy Nou.  I am Cambodia or
 5     "Khmer".  I came from South East Asia, called
 6     "Kampuchea"  or Cambodia.  I am the Cambodian Community
 7     Family Support and Integration Worker.
 8  180                  There are approximately 1,800
 9     Cambodian Community members in the Lower Mainland.
10  181                  As a newcomer, or immigrant, we often
11     are enthusiastic, curious and full of excitement.  We
12     are also sometimes confused and afraid.  After a while,
13     we start to see the true nature of our new home
14     country.  There is also often a feeling a nostalgia for
15     what has been lost.  Some newcomers attempt to use old
16     solutions to new problems.  Some isolate themselves and
17     choose to live in their own community.  Some adjust to
18     their professional lives in Canada, but keep their
19     personal life separate.
20  182                  The long term difficulties of the
21     civil war and the refugee experiences made it
22     impossible for most Cambodian people to benefit from
23     many settlement services when they were first offered
24     at time of arrival.
25  183                  Even now, the Cambodian community has
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 1     been here in Canada usually between 10 to 20 years,
 2     they still need help, language issue.
 3  184                  Coming to Canada, Cambodian people
 4     feel free, but they have barriers; linguistic, lack of
 5     employment opportunity, appropriately structured
 6     educational opportunity, information on how to access
 7     services, information on recreation and social
 8     events -- in the Cambodian community and the wide
 9     Canadian community.  Example:  traditional respect from
10     young generation, et cetera, building English language
11     skills is a main problem for ethnocultural communities.
12  185                  The Cambodian Community Family
13     Support and Integration Project works to meet the high
14     priority needs of Cambodians living in Vancouver/Lower
15     Mainland to preserve culture, tradition and language
16     while supporting adaptation and integration in the
17     Lower Mainland to extend English language skill -- all
18     ages -- and access to accurate information and
19     referral, et cetera.
20  186                  We need to get the word out to our
21     people about health initiatives, education
22     possibilities, citizenship matters, training and
23     employment opportunities, provision of cultural sharing
24     social and recreational events.
25  187                  Since many of our people do not read
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 1     or write in either Khmer or English, radio and
 2     television are important information and integration
 3     tools for us to concentrate on.
 4  188                  We feel this kind of radio
 5     communication and television is vital to the improved
 6     well being of our community and integration in Canadian
 7     life.
 8  189                  We would like to reach our Cambodian
 9     people on a regular basis being able to use the radio
10     and television which are the easiest for them to
11     understand.  We would like to provide cultural sharing
12     of music which is very much missed, and also to provide
13     critical information on how to address social,
14     educational, health and employment issues.  In
15     addition, information on community events and
16     perspectives and include information on events in the
17     wider Canadian community, information on living in a
18     democratic system and respecting human rights.
19  190                  It is for all these reasons that our
20     organization is interested on the particular matters
21     under consideration here today.
22  191                  For Question 1 of the CRTC
23     consultation:
24  192                  It is my view and the view of many
25     members of my community, the present broadcasting
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 1     system does not serve ethnocultural communities well
 2     enough.
 3  193                  One point is that ethnocultural
 4     communities often do not have information about
 5     ethnocultural programming that the present broadcasting
 6     system is providing so there can be no benefit to us in
 7     this case.
 8  194                  Another point is that often the
 9     ethnocultural programming is put together by sources
10     outside of Canada.  Sometimes this means that the
11     issues of ethnocultural communities in Canada are not
12     talked about.  The information may be a little
13     interesting to us, but it often cannot address our
14     daily concerns or our needs.
15  195                  Another point is that local and
16     regional community members here in B.C. can help make
17     programming very beneficial, if they are part of the
18     program planning process for programs made locally or
19     regionally in Canada.
20  196                  Another point is local and regional
21     consultation is essential to determine the priority for
22     contact of any externally purchased program is also
23     important.
24  197                  Come to the Question 2:
25  198                  It is my view and the view of many of
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 1     my community members that separate ethnic programming
 2     needs to be maintained and protected within overall
 3     broadcasting policy.
 4  199                  We do not feel that market forces can
 5     be relied upon to ensure that the needs of
 6     ethnocultural groups are met.
 7  200                  We say this because market forces
 8     tend to focus on the interests of large groups or
 9     wealthy groups, rather than less dominant groups or
10     groups facing barriers.
11  201                  Mainstream media, to date, deals with
12     third language/culture issues very rarely and usually
13     poorly.
14  202                  Media is an important tool in helping
15     ethnocultural communities learn about Canada and learn
16     to function well in Canada.  The ethnocultural media is
17     doing the best job for most newcomers.
18  203                  Come to the Question 3:
19  204                  We strongly support the position that
20     there is a special role for Canadian ethnic
21     programming.  As indicated in our response to the first
22     two consultations questions ethnic programming gives us
23     a voice and a learning/teaching tool.
24  205                  Ethnic programming is very important
25     to ethnocultural communities for the first and second
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 1     generation Canadians.  Ethnocultural media plays an
 2     important unique role that does all the things your
 3     background information sheet mentions.  Example: link
 4     people to their country of origin; reflect Canada;
 5     promote cross-cultural understanding; strengthen, unite
 6     and bridge ethnocultural community within and between
 7     groups both locally and across the country; provide
 8     newcomers with a means to better and fully participate
 9     in Canadian society by informing listeners about their
10     community, current issues, governments and the work.
11  206                  Emphasis that mainstream media does
12     not generally address these issues.
13     Policy Points
14  207                  The policy points, I have four.
15  208                  One:  It is important that CRTC
16     policy especially requires the provision of programming
17     for and by ethnocultural communities particularly the
18     smaller ethnocultural communities.  The smaller
19     communities particularly require this so that these
20     essential programs which are key information tools to
21     these new Canadians can be sustained.  This programming
22     can only be sustained if it is protected by policy.
23  209                  Two:  It is important the CRTC policy
24     mandate reliable and timely strategies be implemented
25     by broadcasters working with community to ensure
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 1     community have information on both (a) imported
 2     ethnocultural programming and (b) programming produced
 3     locally or anywhere in Canada.
 4  210                  Three:  Policy is needed which
 5     requires local and regional consultation to determine
 6     the priority for any of externally purchased programs.
 7  211                  Four:  Ethnic programming needs:
 8     Available and accessible programming in languages other
 9     than English and French; to provide essential
10     information for ethnic groups about their communities;
11     and to provide Canadian programming connecting people
12     to their lives in Canada; to recognize diversities of
13     language and culture; to provide accessible and free
14     ethnic and third language programming; to provide
15     balanced ethnic and third language information from a
16     variety of sources.
17  212                  Thank you for your consideration of
18     this submission.
19  213                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms Nou.
20  214                  THE SECRETARY:  And now would Hardeep
21     Dhaliwal make her presentation, please?
22     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23  215                  MS DHALIWAL:  My name is Hardeep
24     Dhaliwal and I have worked both in the media and in
25     multiculturalism.  In fact, once of my tasks right now
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 1     is media training workshops for multicultural groups to
 2     help them place their stories in the mainstream media.
 3  216                  They want to target the mainstream
 4     because it's the biggest sector of the media and the
 5     most powerful.  They want the stories of people from
 6     diverse communities told to the mainstream audience, as
 7     well as to the ethnic audiences to promote a better
 8     understanding between groups of people.
 9  217                  To be reflected in the mainstream
10     lends a certain type of acceptance.  It means you have
11     arrived, you are a part of Canada.  This is important
12     to people who don't come from the dominant culture. 
13     The media is an important gatekeeper for the sense of
14     community and belonging, but the complaints I hear
15     about the media centre around not enough stories about
16     diverse communities and the stories which are aired are
17     often negative.  In Vancouver, we've heard a lot about
18     the Honduran drug dealers, the Asian gangs and the Sikh
19     extremists.  These labels damage the reputation of the
20     entire community.
21  218                  To give the media credit from the
22     mainstream, they do try to balance the score, but this
23     is often done with the annual story about "Devali" (ph)
24     or Chinese New Year.  That was okay in the sixties
25     maybe, but Vancouver is now too big and too diverse to
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 1     continue like this.  The present broadcasting system
 2     does not serve the ethnocultural communities in this
 3     city.  There are too many good stories out there which
 4     are being missed.
 5  219                  What is the solution?  How can there
 6     be places created on the dial for radio and television
 7     with a mandate to reflect ethnocultural communities? 
 8     Right now, most of the ethnic media is found on cable,
 9     Pay stations, or on the SCMO boxes.  The ethnic media
10     in Vancouver must move to over-the-air channels.  They
11     need the same resources to have the same quality
12     programming as the mainstream media.  This programming
13     should be free and accessible to everyone.
14  220                  At this time, market forces may not
15     be relied upon to ensure that ethnocultural groups have
16     access to broadcasting about their communities or in
17     their languages.  It is my opinion that the CRTC must
18     maintain a separate ethnic broadcasting system until
19     the marketplace is friendlier to ethnocultural news and
20     languages.
21  221                  I read the 15 page Public Notice the
22     CRTC sent out back in December and from what I read,
23     the multicultural broadcast policy looks broad and
24     detailed.  I would just like to see more of the policy
25     used in Vancouver.  By that, I mean some of the things
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 1     that I've just mentioned, more ethnocultural programs,
 2     both in English and in other languages.
 3  222                  You ask a question about foreign
 4     versus Canadian programming.  It's very important to
 5     see quality programs produced in Canada which provide a
 6     unique view of Canadian issues and Canadian experience. 
 7     I would like to see a safe place where contentious
 8     issues from a community can be discussed without fear
 9     of reprisal.  I think an argument can also be made for
10     bringing in high quality foreign programs, a balance
11     between both Canadian and foreign produced programs
12     would probably be the most popular choice.
13  223                  In the CRTC's Public Notice, I see
14     quite a lot of discussion about third language
15     programs.  I grew up in B.C. speaking only Punjabi
16     until I started school.  I remember hearing that Canada
17     was a bilingual country, I thought that meant English
18     and Punjabi.  Later, I learned French and spent four
19     years living and working in Québec.  There, I was an
20     "Allophone".  When I returned to Vancouver, I started
21     working on my lapsed Punjabi, which had remained in
22     suspended animation at the level of a six year old.  I
23     still have a long way to go, but I persist because as a
24     person of colour in this country, I feel I have to
25     maintain my cultural identity to keep me strong in some
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 1     of the challenges I face and I believe that language is
 2     the key to culture.
 3  224                  So I endorse the policies which
 4     protect third language broadcasting, but I will restate
 5     that I would like to see the ethnocultural media in
 6     Vancouver on a more equal footing with their
 7     counterparts in the mainstream media in terms of having
 8     over the air high-quality programming.
 9  225                  Thank you very much.
10  226                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
11     much, Ms Dhaliwal.
12  227                  THE SECRETARY:  This brings to a
13     close the first group of presenters, but I beg your
14     indulgence.  Mr. Alavi is here and his daughter is in
15     the hospital, he has to leave within the next, probably
16     20 minutes and I'm wondering if you'd all mind just
17     staying in place and giving Mr. Alavi a microphone so
18     that he can make his presentation.
19  228                  Thank you very much.
20     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
21  229                  MR. ALAVI:  Ladies and gentlemen,
22     thank you very much for providing this opportunity to
23     me to speak before the break.
24  230                  My name is Sam Alavi.  I'm the
25     Program Producer for Rogers Cablesystems, and serving
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 1     the Iranian community in the Lower Mainland.
 2  231                  Please be advised that as an
 3     experienced Iranian television programming provided in
 4     Canada, I would like to submit my comments and
 5     suggestions in regard to multilingual and ethnic
 6     programming to the Commission to be reviewed as part of
 7     policy-making for Canadian broadcasting systems.
 8  232                  I strongly believe that the present
 9     broadcasting system does not adequately serve Canada's
10     fast-growing ethnocultural and multilingual
11     communities, including the Iranians, due to the
12     following reasons:
13  233                  The broadcasting tools and media
14     serving the Canadian ethnocultural communities are very
15     limited and accessing most of them are far too
16     expensive for the qualified programming providers who
17     do not presently have a variety of choices to present
18     their productions to the respected communities.  So far
19     Vision TV, F8 (ph) cable network based in Toronto,
20     Ontario which devotes just their Saturday scheduled
21     time slots to ethnic programming in return for
22     reasonable price rates and the Rogers Multicultural
23     Channel of Rogers Cablesystems in Vancouver as the only
24     available telecast media in Western Canada, which
25     pioneered ethnocultural programming in the growing
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 1     environment of the Lower Mainland of B.C. are the only
 2     available alternatives for access.
 3  234                  The guidelines imposed by the CRTC
 4     for restricted advertising on Rogers Multicultural
 5     Channel and the lack of funding are two of the main
 6     suffering drawbacks facing channels hard working and
 7     committed management and also programming suppliers.
 8  235                  In spite of the unfortunate fact the
 9     RMC, Rogers Multicultural Channel, mandate to serve the
10     approached communities with the programming of their
11     own language and culture, and the channel's outstanding
12     achievement in recent years of its existence to be the
13     voice and image of diversified people of Metro
14     Vancouver, have made it a symbol to follow for future
15     and the channel's very unique values have made the
16     members of the region's ethnocultural communities very
17     proud and happy to have this service.
18  236                  The public support for the
19     continuation of this basic cable service which proved
20     and improved itself in quality and variety over the
21     years, and especially with the launch of RMC new weekly
22     schedule is starting the fall of '98 providing quality
23     programming for variety of viewers' age and interests,
24     has never been so loud and clear.
25  237                  I believe the channel should be
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 1     adequately funded and the imposed restrictions for
 2     advertising as the only source of funding for the
 3     program suppliers and also the channel, should be
 4     minimized, if not lifted.
 5  238                  I strongly suggest that there must be
 6     a priority on the development of Canadian ethnocultural
 7     services presenting quality programming with Canadian
 8     made content to their respective audiences and the
 9     importance of foreign services, especially those
10     originated or coming from American providers should be
11     restricted in this country.  We already have more than
12     enough.  We already have more than enough share of
13     American-based channels and programming in Canada.
14  239                  If this country ever wished to be
15     culturally independent and Canada holds to its
16     worldwide image of being a true diversified
17     multicultural country, welcoming the new or different
18     ideas of people around the globe, who decide to call
19     this great land their home, we have to come up with our
20     own cultural tools, which means like television systems
21     to make this wish come true.
22  240                  It's always been frustrating for the
23     local broadcasting community, including the Canadian
24     Multicultural program providers and local telecast
25     services to see some of the unlicensed American
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 1     satellite services could get access to our small, but
 2     lucrative market through a variety of tactics, and they
 3     get away with it every time without paying any respect
 4     or applicable taxes.
 5  241                  The illegal U.S. dishes and satellite
 6     programming are being smuggled to Canada more than ever
 7     now, and there is no policing system to stop or control
 8     them effectively.  It's a shame for the Federal
 9     government of Canada and its regulatory bodies not to
10     being able to control and enforce their own protective
11     regulations against the service providers south of the
12     border whose aggressively trying to absorb revenues by
13     fooling the Canadian audience.
14  242                  The need to grant licence for a
15     nationwide multilingual network in Canada with easy
16     affordable access available on basic cable is urgent
17     and immediate.  I believe the Canadian broadcasting
18     community and programming providers should be granted
19     more licences to serve the fast-growing multinational
20     population of this county in a much better and easier
21     way, and qualified producers with talent and expertise
22     should have more access to Canadian televised services
23     similar to currently successful Rogers Multicultural
24     Channel.
25  243                  Thank you.
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 1  244                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
 2     much.
 3  245                  I guess that concludes our first
 4     panel.  I'd like, in particular, to thank all of you
 5     for taking the time to come and assist us in our
 6     considerations and making a contribution to the
 7     development of our policy and remind you that if
 8     anybody has anything to add or elaborate on the
 9     presentations today, that we'd welcome any further
10     contributions until the 4th of March.
11  246                  Thank you.
12  247                  And we will take a 10 minute break. 
13     Thank you.
14     --- Recess / Pause
15                                                        1735
16  248                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Ladies and
17     gentlemen.  Mr. Cardozo...?
18  249                  Ladies and gentlemen, the sooner we
19     get going, the sooner we can all get home.
20  250                  Madame Secretary, if you could call
21     the next presenters?
22  251                  THE SECRETARY:  With pleasure,
23     Commissioner Grauer.
24  252                  I would like to invite Anup Singh
25     Jubbal to come to the table please, Lilian To, Mobina
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 1     Jaffer, Wendy Au, Mason Loh, Albert Lo, Amin Jamal,
 2     Patrick Wong and Joe Chan.
 3  253                  Just sit anywhere there's a
 4     microphone.
 5  254                  And I would invite Anup Singh Jubbal
 6     to present first, please.  If you just hit the white
 7     button on your microphone, please.
 8     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 9  255                  MR. JUBBAL:  Thank you very much to
10     the CRTC Members who are here who has given us the
11     opportunity to come and speak a few words.
12  256                  I'm not a great speaker, you know,
13     but I'm too shy to speak.
14  257                  I got a few points which I brought
15     with me, I didn't make a long speech of 10 minutes, it
16     may finish in three or four minutes, five minutes,
17     whatever.  I want to bring a few points.
18  258                  I'd like to bring the point which the
19     Rogers is doing the Community Channel, channel number
20     20, because it is very hard to get even access to the
21     Community Channel 20 to be on the program or bring the
22     views.  The producers bring the program, whatever they
23     like to put it.  Many things are missing, many things
24     are outside and they never were considered, they never
25     were contacted, if they're contacted they were declined
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 1     all the time flatly as there is no ruling or no
 2     jurisdiction on it of the CRTC.
 3  259                  And in my opinion, all the CRTC
 4     Community Channel 20 should be accessible to the
 5     public; not to just the limited groups or limited
 6     number of people.  This is my point.  And I know I
 7     don't blame the producers, they can make the money as
 8     much as they can, but they also consider the community
 9     at large, what they want.
10  260                  Quality of the programs also by
11     Rogers, you know, they have started a program lately
12     which is not at all acceptable by the community the way
13     they give the identification.  I mean, if you are
14     showing a story for 20 minutes and then Rogers comes
15     there or advertisers come there, it dies down the whole
16     thing.  And I don't know the theme of the story.  And
17     then you see the name, the Rogers name there and then
18     it comes back and then the story starts again.
19  261                  So this is my concern, not my
20     concern, but the concern of the other community members
21     also.
22  262                  The other thing is by the advertising
23     should be shown either in the beginning, Rogers can be
24     shown for 10 minutes in the beginning or 10 minutes at
25     the end, not every half an hour or 10 minutes or 15
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 1     minutes.  So this is my concern.
 2  263                  Community-wise should be heard rather
 3     than the producers' own suggestions, which they have
 4     the monopoly for the last many, many years.  I like to
 5     bring that very strongly.
 6  264                  And the quality of the programs can
 7     be improved by the consultation of some of the groups
 8     which they should be given a chance to speak and tell
 9     how it can be done.  If you present the program or send
10     some suggestions, you don't get no response from there,
11     and I don't where the letter goes or how it is treated.
12  265                  And we -- this is regarding the
13     Rogers programming, but I'm coming at it on the other
14     Indo-Canadian programming which I belong to, I'm a
15     member of the community, I live here for the last 30
16     years and I know how the system works and so on, and we
17     are looking that if there's some more encouragement on
18     the AM or FM radio station considerations or the
19     24-hour stations to our community.  There's no such
20     thing and we'd like to propose and we'll be coming back
21     to you soon on this, too, if we can get something,
22     because most of the time, Chinese, they have three
23     radio stations and we've got a large majority here and
24     we don't have much voice.
25  266                  The other things I want to say, we
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 1     can restructure the programs which they are going on on
 2     the radio stations and the -- we must maintain the
 3     cultural identity and pride.  I'm Indo-Canadian, so I
 4     want to protect my heritage, my identity and my
 5     culture.  And it's -- we also have the medium of new
 6     technology, we must be going with the time as the new
 7     technology goes on.
 8  267                  Multicultural radio is an important
 9     link between the new immigrants, people coming from
10     India, they don't have access to many programs, we got
11     a couple of small feeder stations through which
12     whatever they tell us, we hear it.  So if we can get
13     some more flexibility in the programs on the mainstream
14     radio stations, it is always helpful to all of us and
15     ethnic broadcasters and high members of the cultural
16     community events must be shown in there.  And we must
17     get some...
18  268                  There is some program coming from
19     India, one of the producers through feeder station they
20     bring it, it's a good program, some news comes from
21     there, it is really good and some other on the
22     mainstream programs, the programs are available,
23     actually, in India.  So that must be brought directly
24     from there so that we can broadcast it, because I heard
25     some of the speakers before me that we shouldn't
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 1     encourage -- this is my opinion, but we should
 2     encourage because I come from a background and I like
 3     to know how the things are going there, how I'm in
 4     touch with them all the time so I can identify myself
 5     and can get more satisfaction.
 6  269                  And also, CRTC make the survey on
 7     their own, actually, to how they can do it and whatever
 8     points I'm bringing, if it's a valid point, they can do
 9     independent survey and must consider the points.
10  270                  And it's a great learning activity
11     for the new Indo-Canadian Canadians through the radio,
12     through the television, through the media and whatever
13     easy program we can make, you know, we should make. 
14     And we must organize the programs, you know, which are
15     respectful and prestigious programs.  And we must
16     transfer the knowledge to the best of our knowledge,
17     whatever we can, and community must be consulted before
18     anything can be done.
19  271                  I know the broadcasting system is not
20     very economical, there's too much tough competition
21     going on.  The producers, the radio stations, the TV
22     stations, they have to make the money.  I don't -- I
23     support that part, it must be supported and they must
24     make the money, but at the same time, they must
25     consider the effect and the enjoyment and the
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 1     entertainment of the program, because I have seen, you
 2     know, sometimes some radio stations, they give the
 3     time, mainstream radio station I'm talking about, and
 4     they have -- the quality is so poor, every two minutes
 5     they have one advertisement, that's not very good. 
 6     Only we are just learning the -- listening the
 7     advertisements, we are not listening to programs.
 8  272                  And also, many items are being
 9     missed.  And I think, you know, overall, in conclusion,
10     I would like to say that the programs should be fully
11     culturally oriented.  It must have all the points from
12     the illiterate people who are not -- who can't read or
13     write, they must get the full knowledge and
14     understanding of the broadcasting industry and they
15     should get -- so that they should feel, you know, they
16     are sitting at home in this country.
17  273                  Thank you very much.
18  274                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
19     much, Mr. Jubbal.
20  275                  MR. JUBBAL:  Thank you very much.
21  276                  THE SECRETARY:  Would Lilian To make
22     her presentation now, please?
23     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
24  277                  MS TO:  Thank you.  I appreciate this
25     opportunity to submit to the Canadian Radio-TV and
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 1     Telecommunications Commission on broadcasting policy
 2     reflecting Canada's linguistic and cultural diversity.
 3  278                  First of all, I would just like to
 4     introduce the organization that I represent, SUCCESS,
 5     which has a full name, it's United Chinese Community
 6     Enrichment Services Society.  It's a non-profit social
 7     service agency.  We were incorporated in 1993.
 8  279                  Our primary objective is to build
 9     bridges and to assist new Canadians and immigrants to
10     overcome language and cultural barriers and employment
11     barriers and to become participating and contributing
12     members of the Canadian society.
13  280                  In 1998, we served more than 230,000
14     clients.  We provided services through 10 offices in
15     the Lower Mainland and these services were provided in
16     about 33 different languages and we also enjoy
17     community support, about 44 percent of our funding
18     comes from community voluntary contribution.  We have
19     about 16,000 members and 7,000 volunteers who helped us
20     deliver services, together with about 130 staff.
21  281                  Because we serve a large number of
22     immigrant and ethnic minority individuals in the
23     community, we are very concerned about the Canadian
24     Ethnic Broadcasting Policy.  These policies affect
25     ethnic programming and it also has significant impact,
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 1     not only on the issues of accessibility to services,
 2     but it also has a real impact on ensuring that there
 3     are avenues for full integration in Canadian society.
 4  282                  A bit of demographic background, and
 5     I guess the Commissioners are aware that Canada has
 6     become a lot more culturally diverse since it first
 7     enacted it's Ethnic Broadcasting Policy, 14 years ago
 8     in 1985.  And, as you know, it's actually stated in
 9     your document that between 1991 and '96, 80 percent of
10     the one million immigrants spoke a language other than
11     English or French.  And of course, the 1996 Census
12     shows that visible minorities made up about 11 percent
13     of Canada's population.  And talking about the Chinese
14     population, 25.9 percent of the 11 percent were of
15     Chinese origin.  And in fact, by year 2006, it was
16     estimated that the proportion of visible minorities in
17     Canada will rise to 16.3 percent.
18  283                  According to the 1996 Census, an
19     estimated 310,000 Chinese Canadians lived in British
20     Columbia, and that's about 16 percent of the population
21     of Vancouver.  And we believe that currently in
22     Richmond, which is a municipality adjacent to
23     Vancouver, the Chinese population reached about 40
24     percent.
25  284                  The Chinese Canadian community's, in
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 1     fact, diverse both culturally and linguistically and
 2     with immigrants from Hong Kong, Taiwan, China and other
 3     South East Asia countries.  The significant increase in
 4     Mandarin speaking immigrants from Taiwan and China in
 5     recent years has post a need for more diverse ethnic
 6     programming, even within the Chinese community.
 7  285                  In view of changing community mix and
 8     needs, ethnic programming should be regularly reviewed
 9     and adjusted accordingly.
10  286                  And now, I would like to talk a bit
11     about the relevance of Ethnic Broadcasting Policy. 
12     Again, it was stated in your document as our technology
13     advances with possibilities of digital broadcasting,
14     satellites, Internet, chat rooms and many other media
15     channels, CRTC must recognize that not all communities
16     are equally accessible to computers or computer
17     literacy.  And of course, on the one hand,
18     accessibility to emerging technologies should be
19     considered a priority to meet the needs of ethnic
20     minorities.
21  287                  On the other hand, however, ethnic
22     broadcasting policies must be in place to ensure that
23     there's availability of ethnocultural services, and
24     also, it should provide an adequate Canadian
25     broadcasting system which serves the needs of all
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 1     Canadians in the ethnoculturally diverse society.
 2  288                  We definitely support the delivery of
 3     ethnocultural programming by different vehicles.  We
 4     want to ensure that ethnocultural programming is
 5     accessible to all the communities and some of these
 6     vehicles, again, as listed should include certain
 7     language specialty services and ethnocultural
 8     programming available through community channels, other
 9     cable companies, special programming and so on.
10  289                  And I cannot stress more on the
11     importance of policy priorities to ensure that all of
12     our over-the-air broadcasters do reflect the
13     ethnocultural diversities in the communities that they
14     serve.
15  290                  I realize that we missed the Hearing
16     last year on the mainstream -- so-called mainstream
17     broadcasting, but it is very important, I think it
18     is -- one of the presenters mentioned earlier that
19     there's often been negative and sensational reporting
20     in the mainstream broadcasting channels, and the other
21     kind of reporting that they make is on festivities.  We
22     are hoping that there will be improvement on all the
23     other over-the-air broadcasters so that they will be
24     reflecting what is happening in the ethnocultural
25     communities that we live in and which is actually part
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 1     of the whole Canadian society.
 2  291                  When we talk about integration of
 3     Canadians, it is very important to remember that when
 4     we talk about ethnocultural broadcasting policy to
 5     reach these communities, it's very important to also
 6     prepare the other side, the so-called "mainstream
 7     community", so that they will fully accept the
 8     ethnocultural community in terms of integrating in
 9     employment and other areas.  So the public broadcasting
10     in the mainstream community is very important in being
11     able to address these concerns.
12  292                  The other issue that I want to
13     address is about diversity in ethnic programming.
14  293                  A person, ethnic programming for
15     Chinese Canadians is provided mainly through Type A
16     programs as documented in your document.  And these are
17     often done through ethnic broadcast stations.
18  294                  There's mention about Type C, D and E
19     programs, which targets second or third generation
20     Canadians and which attempt to promote multiculturalism
21     in English or French.  These are rare in the Chinese
22     community and we find that maybe some of these, maybe,
23     should be promoted to foster cultural heritage and to
24     build cross-cultural understanding.
25  295                  We do support placing priority on
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 1     domestic production of ethnocultural services in order
 2     to transmit Canadian values to ethnocultural groups,
 3     and certainly, this is very important.  And we believe
 4     that ethnic broadcasters and producers should be given
 5     the same resources and support for domestic production,
 6     which may provide additional export potential.
 7  296                  However, we feel that there is a role
 8     for some imported television broadcast, especially as
 9     it relates to international trade and news and culture,
10     which balance quality Canadian content.
11  297                  Third language broadcasting allows
12     Canadians, especially those with language barriers, to
13     acquire information, to be familiarized with Canadian
14     values and issues and to engage in participating in the
15     Canadian society, while at the same time it enables
16     them to develop international connections and retain
17     the language of their country of origin.
18  298                  In this new era of globalization in
19     trade and cultural exchange, third language programming
20     should be retained and encouraged to facilitate
21     integration in Canadian society and that should be
22     balanced with quality Canadian programming content.
23  299                  The other issue I wish to talk about
24     is briefly on service accessibility.
25  300                  The provision of current services in
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 1     ethnic programming has not been able to reach
 2     geographically isolated communities and those who have
 3     difficulty paying the subscription fees and there's
 4     some other communities that have not been able to
 5     access ethnic programming.  Public support to ethnic
 6     programming should be provided for those who lack
 7     sufficient resources.
 8  301                  And the last point to talk about, an
 9     advisory body, I think that somebody -- presenter
10     mentioned before.  We do recommend the establishment of
11     an ethnic advisory group to monitor and advise the CRTC
12     on ethnic policies.  And hopefully that would help give
13     kind of balanced programming on a continuous basis.
14  302                  I appreciate this opportunity to
15     review the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy and we believe
16     that linguistic and ethnic diversity in broadcasting is
17     crucial in building a fair and harmonious society.  And
18     definitely the current system requires revision to
19     ensure the removal of barriers and full access for
20     ethnic and linguistic minorities.
21  303                  Thank you.
22  304                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms To.
23  305                  THE SECRETARY:  I'd like to invite
24     Mobina Jaffer to make her presentation now.
25                                                        1800
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 1     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 2  306                  MS JAFFER:  Members of the
 3     Commission, I'm Mobina Jaffer.  I am the President of
 4     the YWCA and I'd like to thank you for this opportunity
 5     of being able to speak to you here today.
 6  307                  The 1985 Ethnic Broadcasting Policy
 7     was designed to ensure that members of ethnocultural
 8     groups in Canada would have access to a range of
 9     programming in third languages from a variety of
10     sources, including high quality Canadian programming in
11     third languages from Canadian ethnic broadcasting
12     services.
13  308                  I would like to emphasize "high
14     quality", it's my organization and my belief that the
15     CRTC has a mandate and there is the law of our land,
16     the Multicultural Act, which it also has to look at in
17     order to achieve harmony in our country, and by helping
18     with integration.
19  309                  If we look at the environment today,
20     there is the mainstream broadcasting, foreign services
21     and a little bit of ethnic Canadian broadcasting.  We
22     need, and you heard very eloquently from Ms Dhaliwal,
23     high quality accessible broadcasting.  The big question
24     is, as in your press release accompanying the Public
25     Notice, the Commission asked whether "...Priority
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 1     should be placed on Canadian ethnic broadcasting
 2     services, rather than importing foreign services?"
 3  310                  Let me explain what that means. 
 4     Foreign programming in third languages is an important
 5     source of entertainment for members of ethnocultural
 6     groups.  It provides a valuable link to current events
 7     in homeland countries and to cultural traditions.  In
 8     my own case, before I came to this country and became a
 9     Canadian citizen, I was a British subject, and
10     therefore, I enjoy, as entertainment watching "On the
11     Buses" or "Are You Being Served?".  That is good for
12     entertainment, but that doesn't meet my needs as a new
13     Canadian.
14  311                  Foreign programming is not a
15     substitute for Canadian programming in third languages. 
16     Foreign programming does not reflect the reality of
17     life in Canada.  It often presents information, conveys
18     values or addresses social issues in ways that are
19     fundamentally at odds with how things are done in
20     Canada.
21  312                  Let me give you another example. 
22     Some years ago, as you may remember, we had a large
23     AIDS conference here in Vancouver, and very naively, I
24     did not realize that the South Asian community has an
25     AIDS problem.  I happened to be in Toronto and watched
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 1     CFMT and the AIDS program and was shocked to see that
 2     AIDS exist in the South Asian community.  Now, as a
 3     mother, that's an issue for me that I never even
 4     thought about discussing with my children, because I
 5     always see images of mainstream people having AIDS.
 6  313                  This is necessary for my family, for
 7     myself, for education purposes that we see our faces in
 8     the media which is a very strong -- especially the TV
 9     media, a very strong reflection of who we are.
10  314                  Canadian programming in third
11     languages provides members of ethnocultural groups with
12     information about their local community and about
13     Canada.  It is essential to facilitate integration and
14     to ensure that everyone has an opportunity to
15     participate in Canadian society.
16  315                  Let me give you another example.  I
17     come from a South Asian background, and "arranged
18     marriages" is my life's reality.  When I was in Toronto
19     and I saw the program on arranged marriages that was on
20     CFMT, I was envious and here we in Vancouver tend to
21     think everything goes to Toronto, but the reality is,
22     when it comes to programming such as that, everything
23     has gone to Toronto.  And we, in Vancouver, are denied
24     our issues being discussed.
25  316                  This arranged marriage program that
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 1     was on CFMT discussed it from both points of view. 
 2     Normally what we see in mainstream media is where
 3     arranged marriages is being criticized; here, it was an
 4     issue of choice.  I felt that my children were being
 5     denied looking at programs of this nature.
 6  317                  The Ethnic Broadcasting Policy
 7     anticipates that members of ethnocultural groups will
 8     have access to a range of Canadian programming in third
 9     languages provided on community access channels on
10     cable, on over-the-air radio and television stations
11     and on Specialty and Pay television services.  It is
12     important that this range of programming be available,
13     not just so that members of ethnocultural groups have
14     the same choice as English and French speaking
15     Canadians, but they also have access to the same
16     diversity of opinions and ideas.
17  318                  Statutory support for the Ethnic
18     Broadcasting Policy is found in the broadcasting policy
19     objectives of the Act.  For example, section 3 (d)
20     (iii) states that:
21                            "...programming provided by the
22                            Canadian broadcasting system
23                            should reflect the multicultural
24                            and multiracial nature of
25                            Canadian society."
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 1  319                  I would ask that you ask yourself: 
 2     Is the ethnocultural community being served presently
 3     with what exists, especially here in our city?
 4  320                  The Ethnic Broadcasting Policy also
 5     is supported by the Multiculturalism Policy of which I
 6     spoke of earlier.  That policy envisions a
 7     multicultural Canada in which all people can fully and
 8     equally participate in the life of this country while
 9     retaining their cultural heritage.
10  321                  Simply put, I believe that the
11     fundamental objective of the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy
12     should be to promote social harmony and integration. 
13     Now that the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy has been in
14     place for 15 years, I believe that it is timely for the
15     Commission to ask:  "Are the objectives of the Ethnic
16     Broadcasting Policy being achieved?  Is the potential
17     for the Canadian broadcasting system to promote social
18     harmony being realized?"
19  322                  And I think when you answer these
20     questions, you have no other thing -- no other answer
21     but to say "no".
22  323                  English language broadcasting
23     services have made some effort to reflect Canada's
24     multicultural nature in the faces of the people on the
25     television screen and in the names and voices of the
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 1     people on radio.  But there is still very little
 2     coverage or very little ethnocultural content on
 3     mainstream broadcasting services.  There is little
 4     coverage of events and issues in local ethnocultural
 5     communities, and little effort to bring ethnocultural
 6     perspectives to bear on broader local or national
 7     issues.
 8  324                  The objectives of the Ethnic
 9     Broadcasting Policy will not be achieved until the
10     programming provided by mainstream broadcasting
11     services is truly inclusive of all people who make up
12     the community.
13  325                  It is very interesting being from a
14     minority to see at the present time the Heritage
15     Minister fighting for Canadian content in magazines.  I
16     ask her and I ask you:  What about us?  Canadian
17     content on television to reflect the new Canada that we
18     all live in?
19  326                  And what does "inclusive" mean? 
20     "Inclusive" does not mean a peppering or one anchor
21     person who looks like me.  "Inclusive" means to be on
22     the floor when the programs are being decided. 
23     "Inclusive" means to be included when decisions are
24     made of what kind of content the programs will have,
25     and "inclusive" means more than one anchor person that
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 1     reflects a person like me.
 2  327                  Yes, fortunately for some people, not
 3     in Vancouver, there are, for example, in Toronto and
 4     Montreal, members of the ethnocultural groups who do
 5     have access to a balanced and diverse selection of
 6     Canadian programming in third languages.  In other
 7     markets that is the case, but sadly that is not the
 8     case in Vancouver.  Until that changes, it cannot be
 9     said that the objectives of the Ethnic Broadcasting
10     Policy are being achieved.
11  328                  As I mentioned earlier, this is also
12     the issue of quality.  What is "quality"?  You heard
13     from Ms Dhaliwal, over-the-air high quality television. 
14     This is very important, and let me try and give you an
15     example.
16  329                  My friends who are from the
17     mainstream community and who have permission to be able
18     to tell me things that maybe some others who don't know
19     me as well can, often say to me, you know, that when
20     they watch multicultural television they often hear a
21     whining and they find way poor quality television.  And
22     I try and explain to them that that is because
23     multicultural television is like community television,
24     and when mainstream people are watching community
25     television, there is a switch in the brain to say,
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 1     "Well, this is community television, it's not
 2     commercial, perhaps it's not as high quality".
 3  330                  But sadly, I don't believe the switch
 4     happens when it comes to multicultural television.  We,
 5     as a people, are seen as inferior because the kind of
 6     programming that is being produced and it has got
 7     nothing to do with the people who are producing it. 
 8     That's not what I'm talking about.  It's the resources
 9     that are available to them.
10  331                  We as a community, we as a
11     multicultural community are seen as inferior.  That
12     doesn't lead to good integration.
13  332                  There is an important role to be
14     played by programming in third languages produced by
15     volunteers on community access channels, and I am not
16     being critical of what they do, I believe they do an
17     excellent job with the resources they have available. 
18     That programming provides opportunities for members of
19     ethnocultural groups to gain experience in program
20     production and also ensures some basic level of service
21     for members of very small ethnocultural groups.  There
22     is also a role for lower cost, imported foreign
23     programming, on mainstream television stations or on
24     Specialty services.
25  333                  But members of my group are not
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 1     well-served if that is the only type of third language
 2     programming that is available.  In addition, we must
 3     remember that broadcasting is a powerful force in
 4     shaping people's perceptions.  If third language
 5     programming is always of poorer quality, that will
 6     negatively influence how members of ethnocultural
 7     groups are perceived by other Canadians.
 8  334                  The Ethnic Broadcasting Policy
 9     anticipates that there will be a range of third
10     language programming available, including high quality,
11     advertiser-supported Canadian programming broadcast in
12     prime time on local multilingual television stations.
13  335                  I believe that the Canadian
14     broadcasting system will not reach its full potential
15     to promote harmony, nor will the objectives of the
16     Ethnic Broadcasting Policy be achieved until members of
17     the ethnocultural groups have access to a full
18     selection of the highest quality programming in third
19     languages, comparable to that available on French and
20     English language broadcast media.
21  336                  The new Millennium means many
22     different things to many different people.  I believe
23     that it could be an era of true social harmony, where
24     people live as equals in an increasingly diverse and
25     multicultural Canada.  I believe that the Canadian
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 1     broadcasting system and the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy
 2     have a very critical, important role to play in helping
 3     to create social harmony.
 4  337                  I believe that many times you have,
 5     in your hands, how my children and my grandchildren
 6     will be viewed.  As equal or as second-class citizens.
 7  338                  The implementation of the Ethnic
 8     Broadcasting Policy is a bit like playing the piano.  A
 9     piano has white keys and black keys.  And each key, as
10     you know, can be played on its own, and you can get
11     some kind of harmony if you only play on the black
12     keys; and you can get some kind of harmony if you play
13     only on the black keys -- white keys.  But I ask you,
14     when you're looking at your policies, to stop just
15     having us play only on the white keys and a few black
16     keys; the time has arrived when you need to play both
17     on the black and white keys.
18  339                  Thank you.
19  340                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
20     much, Ms Jaffer.
21  341                  THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter is
22     Wendy Au.
23     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
24  342                  MS AU:  Good evening.  I'd like to
25     thank the Commissioners for the opportunity to speak as
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 1     an interested member of the public on this very
 2     important issue of broadcasting policy relating to
 3     Canadian cultural diversity.
 4  343                  My name is Wendy Au, and I'm a first
 5     generation Chinese Canadian and a Vancouver resident
 6     for 26 years.  I'm not involved in the broadcasting
 7     industry, and I'm here to speak more from my experience
 8     and observations from working with the multicultural
 9     communities over a long period of time.
10  344                  I have been involved in community
11     development work with the multicultural communities on
12     both a voluntary and professional basis.  My
13     professional experiences include being the community
14     school coordinator, an executive director of a
15     community centre, an equal employment opportunity
16     program officer, and a diversity trainer.  Presently,
17     I'm a social planner focusing on the development and
18     growth of the multicultural communities in Vancouver.
19  345                  I am pleased to learn that the
20     Broadcasting Act establishes a number of broadcasting
21     policy objectives, and particulary in section 3, where
22     it states that:
23                            "the Canadian broadcasting
24                            system should serve to
25                            safeguard, enrich and strengthen
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 1                            the cultural, political, social
 2                            and economic fabric of Canada."
 3  346                  This broadcasting policy objective
 4     fits perfectly within the context of Canada's official
 5     policy on multiculturalism, which envisions a
 6     multicultural Canada in which all people can fully
 7     participate in the life of this country while retaining
 8     a connection to their cultural heritage.  Therefore, it
 9     is critical that the Canadian Ethnic Broadcasting
10     Policy ensure the availability of radio and television
11     programming in languages other than English or French.
12  347                  I'd like to focus my presentation
13     today on the "social mandate" of the broadcasting
14     system and, specifically, to review the contribution of
15     the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy to the social fabric of
16     Canada.  If the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy is
17     effective, it is a tool to strengthen the social fabric
18     of Canada.
19     Bridging Function
20  348                  An effective Ethnic Broadcasting
21     Policy will help to build bridges of understanding and
22     acceptance between ethnic communities groups and other
23     Canadians; as well as within ethnic communities.
24  349                  I am concerned that the "bridging"
25     between and within communities is not happening to the
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 1     extent that they could be and should be.
 2  350                  Therefore, the objectives of the
 3     Ethnic Broadcasting Policy are not being fully
 4     achieved.
 5  351                  Let us explore some of the reasons
 6     why the "bridging" are not functioning as well as it
 7     should be.
 8     Ethnocultural Content in the English Broadcasting
 9     System
10  352                  There's currently a lack a
11     ethnocultural content in the English language
12     broadcasting media.
13  353                  English language media do not seem to
14     have the interest or the ability to cover issues and
15     events happening in the ethnocultural communities.
16  354                  Most of the programming content does
17     not reflect the multicultural make up of the community.
18  355                  When ethnocultural communities are
19     covered, it is most often negative; there are either
20     sensational crime stories of drugs and murder involving
21     members of the local ethnocultural groups, or stories
22     about particular refugee groups trying to defraud the
23     welfare system.  Positive contributions or good stories
24     have difficulty gathering attention from the English
25     language media or the mainstream media, so-called.
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 1  356                  If English broadcasters are to
 2     perform a bridging function, they must go beyond merely
 3     visual "reflection" of having visible minority staff in
 4     front of a camera, but with no program content that is
 5     relevant to the multicultural community.
 6  357                  English language media must actively
 7     facilitate cross-cultural understanding by including
 8     information and perspectives in their programs that
 9     reflect "all" Canadians, all local Canadian experiences
10     in an inclusive and equitable manner.
11     Canadian Programming in Third Languages
12  358                  Canadian programming in third
13     languages is essential to provide members of
14     ethnocultural groups with information about their local
15     community and Canada, to facilitate integration and to
16     ensure that everyone has an opportunity to participate
17     in Canadian society.
18  359                  Canadian produced programs in third
19     languages media, particularly on television, are very
20     often over-shadowed by imported foreign videos and
21     film.
22  360                  Foreign programming does provide
23     members of ethnocultural groups with cultural and
24     information linkages to their home country.  However,
25     it also risks reinforcement of negative stereotypes,
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 1     traditions, and values from the home country which may
 2     be contrary to the values of Canadian society.
 3  361                  For example, the portrayal of women
 4     in a subservient role will no doubt reinforce
 5     inequality among men and women, which may lead to
 6     family violence.  While the use of imposed force and
 7     authority by parents may promote parent-child
 8     conflicts, as well as perceived child abuse by Canadian
 9     authorities.
10  362                  Foreign programming also may not deal
11     with potentially controversial issues, such as sexual
12     orientation and other human rights issues, in a way
13     that reflects the present Canadian legal and social
14     environment.
15  363                  Imported foreign films can never
16     replace the value of locally produced programs with
17     relevant Canadian content.  Although we appreciate the
18     cultural connection with our homeland, it is also
19     necessary to balance this with the need for relevant
20     local Canadian content which will help us to understand
21     and establish ourselves in this new homeland.  And I
22     suspect this is one of the reasons why the CRTC, in
23     your wisdom, has created the Ethnic Broadcasting
24     Policy.
25  364                  To be effective, the Ethnic
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 1     Broadcasting Policy must ensure that members of
 2     ethnocultural groups have access to Canadian
 3     programming in third languages that provides
 4     information about the local community in Canada,
 5     information that enhances understanding of Canadian
 6     values and which facilitates smooth integration into
 7     Canadian society.
 8  365                  I'm concerned that in Vancouver,
 9     there is a serious lack of Canadian programming in
10     third languages and therefore, the social mandate of
11     the broadcasting system in this city is not being met.
12     Access
13  366                  Having a social mandate and social
14     responsibility also means that the operation of the
15     broadcasting system cannot be governed solely by market
16     forces.
17  367                  A complete reliance on market forces
18     will mean that many ethnic groups are forced to pay for
19     information in their own language.  Especially for
20     smaller ethnocultural groups with limited economic
21     resources, they are deprived of vital information on
22     issues in their local community and Canada as a whole.
23  368                  For many recently arrived immigrants
24     and refugees, the first few years of transition and
25     settlement can be very difficult, especially if they
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 1     are very limited English language skills.  They do
 2     rely, to a large extent, on obtaining community
 3     information and news via third language media.  This
 4     serves as a vital tool in their integration process.
 5  369                  A communication link in their mother
 6     tongue is necessary to assist in the settlement and
 7     integration.  A recent survey of the Vietnamese
 8     community confirmed that a large proportion of
 9     Vietnamese residents have limited English language, and
10     they preferred to receive information on community
11     services and programs via broadcasting media in their
12     own language instead of printed information.
13  370                  The limited access to radio and
14     television programming by some ethnocultural groups has
15     been a constant challenge and struggle.  Most of these
16     local programs are produced by the ethnocultural groups
17     on a volunteer basis with virtually no resources and
18     limited technical support.
19  371                  Members of the ethnocultural groups
20     are not well served by the broadcasting system if the
21     only ethnic programming available to them is of less
22     than full "broadcast" quality.  The ethnocultural
23     communities would therefore continue to be presented as
24     the inferior groups or second rate citizens within the
25     broader community, which will, in turn, reinforce
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 1     negative stereotypes of ethnocultural community groups.
 2  372                  Free access to Canadian third
 3     language radio and television programming for as many
 4     ethnocultural groups as possible, especially the
 5     smaller ones, should remain a fundamental principle of
 6     the Canadian Ethnic Broadcasting Policy.
 7  373                  This principle must be maintained by
 8     the CRTC if the Ethnic Broadcasting Policy is to fulfil
 9     its social mandate.
10     Recommendations
11  374                  In closing, I would like to put
12     forward the following recommendations:
13  375                  As a result of this policy review,
14     the CRTC should take steps to ensure that the social
15     mandate of the broadcasting system is being fulfilled
16     by (a) encouraging English language broadcasters to
17     reflect "all" local Canadian experiences in an
18     inclusive and equitable manner; (b) increasing the
19     availability of Canadian third language programming;
20     (c) encouraging and ensuring that third language
21     programming has adequate support to develop quality
22     local Canadian programs; (d) ensuring free access to
23     Canadian radio and television programming for as many
24     ethnocultural groups as possible; and, finally, (e) 
25     developing an effective means to monitor and evaluate
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 1     the social mandate of both English language and third
 2     languages media.
 3  376                  The comparative material released by
 4     the CRTC shows that in Toronto and Montreal, members of
 5     ethnocultural groups have access to free Canadian third
 6     language programming provided by a local multilingual
 7     television station; such a station in Vancouver could
 8     address some of the principle concerns expressed in
 9     this presentation.
10  377                  Thank you very much for the
11     opportunity to present my viewpoints and for taking
12     time to review the effectiveness of the Ethnic
13     Broadcasting Policy.
14  378                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
15     much, Ms Au.
16  379                  THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter
17     this evening is Mason Loh.
18     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19  380                  MR. LOH:  Thank you, Honourable
20     Commissioners.  It's my pleasure to appear before you
21     today at this consultation.  I'm appearing as an
22     interested member of the public.
23  381                  Although I am a lawyer by occupation,
24     I work as a volunteer in the community, but more
25     relevant to all of this is I'm a consumer of ethnic
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 1     language programming, TV and radio.  And according to
 2     the 1996 Statistics Canada Census, I guess over 300,000
 3     of our population here in Vancouver speak at least one
 4     of the foreign languages, third languages we're talking
 5     about here, at home.  So I presume the market is at
 6     least that big and that number is two or three years
 7     old.  So I'm within that number and I resort to ethnic
 8     language programming very much on my sources as a
 9     source of information and also entertainment, too.
10  382                  Now, I propose to briefly respond to
11     the three questions set out in your News Release
12     accompanying the Public Notice.
13  383                  To Question Number 1:
14                            "To what extent does the present
15                            broadcasting system adequately
16                            serve Canada's ethnocultural
17                            communities?"
18  384                  The Ethnic Broadcasting Policy
19     provides an effective policy and regulatory framework
20     to ensure that the needs and interests of members of
21     ethnocultural groups in Canada are served by the
22     Canadian broadcasting system.
23  385                  The Ethnic Broadcasting Policy:
24                            "(i) requires Canadian radio and
25                            television broadcasters to
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 1                            reflect the multicultural nature
 2                            of Canadian society in the
 3                            programming that they provide;
 4                            (ii) supports the provision of
 5                            Canadian television and radio
 6                            programming in languages other
 7                            than English and French, to
 8                            facilitate integration and equal
 9                            participation in Canadian
10                            society by members of
11                            ethnocultural groups; and (iii)
12                            allows for access to foreign
13                            programming in third languages,
14                            to provide members of
15                            ethnocultural groups with
16                            increased choice and diversity
17                            of international information and
18                            entertainment programming; and,
19                            lastly, (iv) creates
20                            opportunities for members of
21                            ethnocultural groups to actively
22                            participate in the Canadian
23                            broadcasting system in languages
24                            other than English or French, as
25                            the creators of programming, as
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 1                            the employees, managers or
 2                            owners of broadcasting services,
 3                            or as the purchasers of
 4                            advertising."
 5  386                  Now, it's been almost 15 years since
 6     the policy was first established, but the ethnic
 7     policy, I believe, is still relevant and it's still
 8     strong.
 9  387                  If the present broadcasting system is
10     not adequately serving Canada's ethnocultural
11     communities, the problem is not the policy but rather,
12     the implementation of the policy.
13  388                  Now, on to the second question you've
14     posed:
15                            "Given the demographic changes
16                            that have taken place in Canada,
17                            how can the needs and interests
18                            of ethnocultural communities
19                            continue to be served?"
20  389                  There certainly have been significant
21     changes in the population of Canada in the last 14
22     years and some of the earlier presenters have already
23     touched upon that.  In the Vancouver area, particularly
24     relevant for us here and for the community that I come
25     from, the Chinese speaking community, over 200,000
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 1     people now identify themselves as speaking Chinese
 2     language at home as their primary language, being the
 3     largest group here in Vancouver.
 4  390                  Now with these changes in demography,
 5     I believe they're placing new demands on the Canadian
 6     broadcasting system.  It is a good time to review the
 7     implementation of the policy to ensure that it is
 8     keeping pace with demands.  I applaud the Commission
 9     for doing this circuit and consulting the community on
10     it.
11  391                  Some of the questions that I would
12     ask is:  If there is a growing ethnic population and
13     there is more demand for programming in third
14     languages, is that demand being met by this policy?
15  392                  The second question:  Consumers also
16     are demanding more choice and diversity in third
17     language programming, higher quality and more local and
18     Canadian information programming; is that demand being
19     met?
20  393                  Thirdly:  Advertisers want greater
21     choice and more ways to reach their customers in third
22     languages; is that demand being met?
23  394                  Fourthly:  Members of ethnocultural
24     groups are looking for more opportunities to become
25     involved in the creative and business sides of the
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 1     Canadian broadcasting industry; is that demand being
 2     met?
 3  395                  The comparative data released by the
 4     CRTC show that some markets are better served than
 5     other markets; in some markets, the new demands are
 6     being met, in other markets they may not be.
 7  396                  For example, if we compare the
 8     Chinese community population in Vancouver to Toronto,
 9     we're slightly smaller here, but we are much bigger
10     than the Chinese community in Montreal.  But in both
11     Toronto and Montreal, Chinese speaking viewers have
12     access to free local television programming in Chinese
13     languages and other languages.  And the local
14     businesses can use broadcast television to reach their
15     customers with advertising in Chinese languages; but
16     here in Vancouver, that is still not yet the case.
17  397                  Now, this review by the Commission is
18     an important opportunity for the Commission to evaluate
19     the implementation of its Ethnic Broadcasting Policy to
20     identify demands that are not being met, and to chart a
21     course of action to ensure that the structure of the
22     Canadian broadcasting system keeps pace with Canada's
23     changing demography.
24  398                  Now, the last question, the third
25     question you've posed is:
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 1                            "Should there be a priority on
 2                            the development of Canadian
 3                            ethnocultural services other
 4                            than importing foreign
 5                            services?"
 6  399                  Foreign third language services
 7     provide members of ethnocultural groups with increased
 8     viewing choices, just like U.S. programming services in
 9     English provide English Canadians with increased
10     viewing choice.
11  400                  However, foreign services are not a
12     substitute for Canadian services.
13  401                  Members of ethnocultural groups need
14     Canadian third language programming to learn more about
15     Canada and to develop a sense of Canada as their own
16     country.
17  402                  Canadian third language programming
18     facilitates integration, promotes equal participation
19     and ensures that members of ethnocultural groups have
20     access to a Canadian perspective on local, national and
21     international events and issues.
22  403                  Canadian third language programming
23     also provides members of ethnocultural groups with an
24     opportunity to contribute their views and unique
25     perspective on Canadian society and to actively
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 1     participate in the creative and business sides of the
 2     Canadian broadcasting industry.
 3  404                  In ethnic broadcasting, as in other
 4     areas of the Canadian broadcasting system, the
 5     Commission should assign the highest priority to
 6     Canadian ethnic broadcasting services that provide
 7     Canadian programming in third languages, while, at the
 8     same time allowing viewers to have access to foreign
 9     services and foreign programming.
10  405                  So, in conclusion, I guess you can
11     gather from me, as just one single consumer of third
12     language programming, that I like choices, just like
13     any of us if we're buying anything, we like to have
14     choices on pricing, on quality, on selection.  I think
15     it's a basic demand and I urge you to consider that in
16     your review of the policy.
17  406                  Thank you.
18  407                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Loh.
19  408                  THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Loh, before you
20     relax entirely, did I introduce you as Manson Loh?
21  409                  MR. LOH:  Yes, I think so...
22  410                  THE SECRETARY:  I am sorry for that. 
23     Can the record reflect that this was Mason Loh.
24  411                  MR. LOH:  Thank you.
25  412                  THE SECRETARY:  Thanks very much.
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 1  413                  MR. LOH:  Thank you, ma'am.
 2                                                        1830
 3  414                  THE SECRETARY:  And our next
 4     presenter this evening is Albert Lo.
 5     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 6  415                  MR. LO:  My name is Albert Lo, I'm
 7     the Vice President of a non-profit society called The
 8     Agape Christian Team of Canada.
 9  416                  For some eight years, together with
10     the Chinese Committee Television Limited, we have
11     co-produced a lifestyle and culture program in the
12     Chinese language which is called "Vision Agape".  This
13     local production was telecast continuously for almost
14     eight years on the multicultural channel here in
15     Vancouver until last September when it was arbitrarily
16     banned by the licensed service provider.
17  417                  Today I'm here to offer some comments
18     in response to the Public Notice CRTC 1998-135 with
19     regard to the broadcasting policy reflecting Canada's
20     linguistic and cultural diversity.
21  418                  Paragraph 9 of the Public Notice
22     makes reference to, and I quote:
23                            "It is the Commission's
24                            objective to ensure that its
25                            policy, as modified by whatever
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 1                            changes it may determine are
 2                            necessary, continues to provide
 3                            an adequate framework within
 4                            which the Canadian broadcasting
 5                            system may serve the needs and
 6                            interests of all Canadians by
 7                            reflecting their ethnocultural
 8                            diversity in an effective
 9                            manner."
10  419                  From our experience and viewers'
11     feedback over the years, we would say that the
12     Commission's policy had been reasonably effective up
13     until 1998.  Public feedback also tells us that
14     beginning sometime last year, the needs and interests
15     of a significant and particular segment of Canadians
16     ceased being served and their ethnocultural diversity
17     stopped being respected.
18  420                  The exact cause of this phenomenon is
19     yet to be determined.  However, anecdotal evidence and
20     our actual experience both suggest that the
21     Commission's policy is basically sound, although
22     there's always room for improvement.  Nevertheless, we
23     are of the opinion that there's a weakness in terms of
24     fulfilling the intent and spirit of the policy, and
25     that is implementation as alluded to by our previous
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 1     presenter that I heard.
 2  421                  Without digressing or getting into
 3     specific barriers that we ourselves encountered with
 4     certain licensee, as this is not the proper forum for
 5     such discussions, we would like to highlight the
 6     following points for consideration by the Commission:
 7  422                  1)  A broadcasting policy reflecting
 8     Canada's linguistic and cultural diversity is a noble
 9     policy.  Its success would make for a more harmonious
10     and united Canada, provided all the stakeholders and
11     players support the policy by living up to its intent
12     and spirit and not merely comply in a technical sense.
13  423                  2)  We believe a policy that reflects
14     Canada's linguistic and cultural diversity includes the
15     concept of respect.  This obviates the vital importance
16     of providing programming that promotes cross-cultural
17     understanding when viewed from a policy framework
18     perspective.
19  424                  3)  Ethnic broadcasting is more than
20     just a purely commercial venture.  The societal
21     obligation of serving the needs of the ethnocultural
22     communities must be brought into sharp focus in
23     examining licensing framework.  A licensed to provide
24     ethnic programming in a semi-monopolistic, if not
25     totally monopolistic fashion, is a privilege that
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 1     carries with it a certain public trust.  Licensees must
 2     therefore be held accountable at all times in terms of
 3     fulfilling policy requirements, not just at licence
 4     renewal times.
 5  425                  4)  To enhance the policy's
 6     effectiveness, there should be provision for incentives
 7     to those service providers who have conscientiously
 8     supported and upheld the policy, as well as living up
 9     to and fulfilled in good faith, all of the conditions
10     of their applicable licences.
11  426                  5)  The ethic broadcasting regulatory
12     regime -- and I refer to paragraph 17 -- to paragraph
13     27 of the Public Notice, should also include some
14     provisions for these incentives to prevent and minimize
15     the possibility of potential for any interested party
16     to profit by way of playing politics of division or by
17     promoting ethnic bribery while hiding behind some
18     clever politics of appearance.  In the absence of
19     safeguards to keep this type of politics to a minimum,
20     there's a real potential for any unscrupulous players
21     in ethnic broadcasting to cause irreparable harm to
22     ethnic relations and racial harmony because of pure
23     greed or because of their own private agenda.
24  427                  Finally, enforcement is an aspect
25     that should be taken into consideration in any policy
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 1     we design.  Without any effective enforcement
 2     mechanism, a policy is just like a paper tiger.  With
 3     no teeth, it is not worth the paper it is written on.
 4  428                  In this regard, I must say it is a
 5     pleasant surprise to learn of a recommendation that was
 6     made earlier by the presenter from AMSSA, a
 7     recommendation that we, too, would like the Commission
 8     to consider.  And that is to establish an independent
 9     objective body with the responsibility of monitoring,
10     advising and recommending remedial actions in cases of
11     deviations from policy or where complaints arise.
12  429                  The body should be comprised of
13     representatives from various ethnic communities who
14     will serve on a volunteer basis.  They must also have
15     no arm's length -- non-arm's length relationships with
16     any of the licensees.
17  430                  Thank you for the opportunity to
18     present our comments.
19  431                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Lo.
20  432                  THE SECRETARY:  I'd like to invite
21     Amin Jamal to present next, please.
22     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23  433                  MR. JAMAL:  I thank you very much for
24     giving me the opportunity to present my views.
25  434                  My name is Amin Jamal.  I am a member
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 1     of the South Asian Advisory Board, which is chaired by
 2     Mr. Gyan Nath.  Since he is in India, I was asked some
 3     time last week if I would give my views.  Whether these
 4     represent Mr. Gyan Nath's views, I don't know, however
 5     it is the Board that has the same views, I'm sure.
 6  435                  And because of this position, I have
 7     had the privilege to meet with the managers and people
 8     responsible in providing the service in the manner they
 9     think fit.
10  436                  So nine months ago, the service
11     provider decided to change the way the programs were
12     presented, and this was in the guise of competition. 
13     They brought in more inexperienced producers, they paid
14     no attention to the quality and content.  Local content
15     was no longer a priority.  Those producers that had two
16     to three, and three and a half hour slots were given
17     more like half hour slots at very odd times.  People do
18     not have time to phone the response line and we will
19     not complain about something very trivial or small, but
20     the service provider inculcated in people the need to
21     form and unknowingly the producers also encouraged it. 
22     Now, the service provider has the ammunition of the big
23     number of complaints about dissatisfaction.
24  437                  We are asked if the community was
25     adequately served.  The answer is "no".  The question
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 1     is not how the community can be served well, but why
 2     the community is not served well, although the local
 3     producers have the facility and the know-how.
 4  438                  Nine months later, it is time for
 5     delivery.  You must have received a request for
 6     licensing a new channel to serve the community.  The
 7     answer to this should be that they served the community
 8     well until the service provider decided otherwise.
 9  439                  The question now is whether there is
10     a need for a national channel to serve the community. 
11     The logical answer to this is "no".  If you look at the
12     demographics, you will find disparity across the
13     nation.  The Toronto program must contain 60 percent of
14     Italian programming.  The advertisers will not pay more
15     to sell Ragout and pasta to the Chinese community in
16     B.C., and you cannot sell Durian to the Italians.  The
17     idea is to sell what people want.
18  440                  When I served on the Committee of the
19     Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants in England
20     some 25 years ago, an immigrant whose application was
21     being favourably received asked me to withdraw the
22     application.  I asked him, "Why do you want to do
23     this?", he said, "I cannot live in a country where
24     they're talking about making homosexuality legal."  I
25     said, "What is it to you?", he said, "I want to get out
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 1     of here before they make it compulsory."
 2     --- Laughter / Rires
 3  441                  MR. JAMAL:  If they will impose a
 4     national channel on the community, there will be a
 5     revolt.  People will look for the alternative source;
 6     there is always an alternative.  I think the
 7     multicultural channel has lost so many viewers the
 8     service provider has no idea of the numbers.  The
 9     satellite dish is becoming more affordable.  Before the
10     viewers decide to cancel subscriptions to the basic
11     channels it is time to revert to the old programs.
12  442                  Take the example of the change in
13     Coca-Cola recipe.  Several years back, the company
14     decided to change the recipe, they lost their
15     marketshare and got hurt badly.  Bad enough to bring
16     back the original recipe.  They were lucky to win the
17     consumer back since they had a unique product to offer. 
18     Why not look at the facts instead of taking chances?
19  443                  It is my opinion that the service
20     provider should sit down with the old producers and ask
21     them, "What would be the best way to serve the ethnic
22     community?"
23  444                  We had a meeting with the officers of
24     the service provider some 12 days ago.  I asked
25     regarding the reason behind the present policy, they
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 1     told me they thought the time was right for a change. 
 2     I asked why there were nine producers of the South
 3     Asian language programs?  They said because there were
 4     that many applications.  I asked if they would bring 10
 5     more on board?  They said if they offered good quality
 6     programs.  I asked why there was no program in Austrian
 7     language?  They said because nobody's applied for it. 
 8     I asked if it were only because the German and the
 9     Austrians spoke the same language?  The program manager
10     said that the Germans and Austrians spoke different
11     languages.  Last week I found out that the German
12     program producer was an Austrian and the person that
13     said the countries spoke different languages happens to
14     be a person of German descent.
15  445                  The service provider, evidently, has
16     no interest in serving the community and you have not
17     paid attention to the service provider's disregard to
18     your guidelines.  It is my opinion that they should
19     form a committee of ethnic community members to convey
20     the needs and the policy of programming should be based
21     on their recommendations.
22  446                  If Murphy's Golden Rule, "One who has
23     gold makes the rules" or a similar German saying, "Wer
24     das gelde hat kann die puppen tanzen lassen" is to be
25     applied, then I rest my case.
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 1  447                  I thank you very much.
 2  448                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr.
 3     Jamal.
 4  449                  THE SECRETARY:  I would invite
 5     Patrick Wong and Joe Chan to make their presentations
 6     next.
 7     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
 8  450                  MR. CHAN:  Madame and Mr.
 9     Commissioner, Commission staff and members of the
10     public, I am Joe Chan, General Manager of Fairchild
11     Media Group, and with me today is Patrick Wong, who is
12     the Group's Vice President, Corporate Affairs.
13  451                  Fairchild welcomes the opportunity to
14     participate in the Commission's review of third
15     language and Ethnic Broadcasting Policy.  We
16     appreciate, in particular, the Commission's efforts to
17     reach out to individuals within the many multicultural
18     communities in Canada and to gain an appreciation of
19     the role ethnic broadcasting plays in the lives of
20     Canadians.
21  452                  We believe the current policy has
22     been critical in the development of distinctive
23     Canadian ethnic services and remains a key factor to
24     our success.  While we intend to highlight a few of our
25     submissions, we are here today primarily to listen,
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 1     along with the Commission, to the perspective of the
 2     viewers in this niche we aim to serve.
 3  453                  The Fairchild Media Group has a
 4     significant commitment to ethnic broadcasting with
 5     interests in four radio stations, as well as our
 6     specialty television services, Fairchild Television and
 7     Talentvision.
 8  454                  Fairchild first entered ethnic radio
 9     broadcasting in 1992 when we were issued a licence for
10     CJVB-AM Vancouver.  Since then, Fairchild has expanded
11     through the acquisition of an AM station in Toronto and
12     new FM undertakings in Calgary and Vancouver, which we
13     operate in partnership with O.K. Radio Group.  In
14     addition, we recently received authority to utilize the
15     SCMO of our Vancouver FM to provide a Korean language
16     service.
17  455                  In keeping with the current policy
18     framework, these stations each face the challenge of
19     servicing a wide range of cultural groups in a
20     significant number of different languages.  For
21     example, 14 cultural groups in a minimum of 15
22     different languages are served by our Toronto AM
23     station and over 10 cultural groups in 19 different
24     languages by the Calgary FM.  In Vancouver we serve 20
25     groups in 15 languages on our FM station, while on the
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 1     AM undertaking over 23 cultural community access
 2     programming in at least 23 different languages.
 3  456                  We are proud of the tremendous
 4     variety of programming these stations provide to a
 5     broad cross section of communities, including
 6     Cambodian, Jamaicans, Greeks, Malays, Loasians,
 7     Persians, Tamils, Indians, Vietnamese and Koreans. 
 8     Both through our programming and as a corporate
 9     citizen, Fairchild has made a concerted effort to be
10     connected to the communities we serve and in turn, to
11     connect our audience to each other and to other
12     Canadians.
13  457                  In this regard, Fairchild established
14     a scholarship at the Ryerson University School of
15     Broadcasting, as well as B.C. Institute of Technology,
16     aimed at expanding the presence of Canadians from a
17     variety of ethnic origins in the media.
18  458                  In 1993, we acquired the assets of
19     Chinavision, a national Chinese language specialty
20     undertaking.  Today, Fairchild Television continues to
21     serve the Canadian Chinese community, broadcasting
22     primarily in Cantonese.  Over 300,000 subscribers
23     currently receive the service via Direct-To-Home
24     satellite or in more limited areas, by MDS or cable.
25  459                  In addition to Fairchild Television,
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 1     we also operate Talentvision, a regional specialty
 2     undertaking acquired in 1993 which serves over 14,000
 3     British Columbian subscribers.  Talentvision while
 4     focuses on the fast-growing Mandarin speaking
 5     population also carries programs in Vietnamese and
 6     Korean.
 7  460                  Fairchild Television and Talentvision
 8     provide a wide variety of foreign and Canadian
 9     programming with news and information produced in our
10     Toronto and Vancouver studios among our most popular
11     shows.  We are also pleased to report that
12     increasingly, these Canadian productions are in demand
13     as exports to other countries.  Our current affairs
14     program, "Prime Stories" and "Timeline" are now being
15     licensed and shown on the cable network in Hong Kong.
16  461                  The following are the issues to
17     consider:  Our experience in both television and radio
18     has confirmed the important role ethnic services can
19     play in the Canadian broadcasting system by
20     strengthening the multicultural fabric of our country. 
21     We firmly believe there continues to be a need for
22     distinct ethnic policy and that the fine tuning made as
23     part of this review should build on strong framework
24     already in place.
25  462                  We appreciate that a public
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 1     consultation is not the forum for detailed analysis. 
 2     We will, therefore, highlight only a few key points.
 3  463                  On the radio side, Fairchild believes
 4     the current ethnic and Canadian content levels remain
 5     appropriate and should not be increased.  However,
 6     licences must be provided with greater flexibility in
 7     the scheduling of programs.  This flexibility will
 8     allow market demand to regulate program schedules while
 9     the existing safeguards continue to ensure the quantity
10     and diversity of ethnic programming.
11  464                  In television, Fairchild has a number
12     of recommendations.
13  465                  First, we believe ethnic services
14     should be afforded the same access to distribution as
15     the Canadian Specialty Services most recently licensed. 
16     In other words, upon the earlier of September 1st, '99,
17     or the introduction of digital.
18  466                  Fairchild Television continues to
19     struggle to obtain cable distribution.  While we are
20     available in Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary,
21     the service is not carried in Montreal, Winnipeg,
22     Ottawa, the Atlantic provinces or in many of the
23     growing communities around Toronto.
24  467                  Secondly, Fairchild supports the
25     existing policy which refuses to add a foreign service
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 1     to the eligible list, which would be comparative with a
 2     Canadian Specialty service.  Foreign services bring
 3     diversity, but they do not contribute to the financing
 4     or broadcast of Canadian programming, nor are they
 5     tailored to the specific needs of the people residing
 6     here.  These continued protection is vital to the
 7     growth of distinctive Canadian ethnic programming.
 8  468                  Finally, Fairchild does not believe
 9     the licensing of a national ethnic network is
10     consistent with the evolving needs of Canadian ethnic
11     communities, particularly in a digital world.  We
12     believe that with the transition to digital, the
13     opportunity should be provided to each ethnic community
14     to develop a service which best suits its needs.  Like
15     all Canadians, ethnic viewers want access to a variety
16     of programming in the language of choice, available at
17     times to suit their schedule.
18  469                  A national multi-ethnic network would
19     not only fail to meet these needs, but would threaten
20     the developability of the Specialty services which do. 
21     However, should the Commission see fit to licence such
22     a network, we believe its Condition of Licence must be
23     structured to protect existing Specialty service and to
24     ensure service to under-served communities.
25  470                  In closing, Fairchild is proud of the
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 1     service we provide to a wide variety of ethnic
 2     communities.  We believe the current policy framework
 3     has contributed much to the development of distinctive
 4     Canadian ethnic programming and that through this
 5     policy review, we can work to further improve our
 6     systems.
 7  471                  Thank you.
 8  472                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
 9     much.
10  473                  I think that concludes this panel and
11     I just, once again, like to thank all of you for taking
12     the time to come in and sharing your views with us. 
13     It's an important contribution to our deliberations and
14     we appreciate it very much.
15  474                  I'd also just like to point out to
16     some of you who may have missed it, just given the
17     number of people that have asked to appear, we haven't
18     been able to ask questions of the presenters and it
19     doesn't reflect on our part a lack of interest, but
20     just a desire to hopefully get through the list and to
21     hear from you tonight before midnight.
22  475                  And on that note, what we'd like to
23     do is break for half an hour to give everyone a chance
24     perhaps to get something to eat or a coffee or a bit of
25     a break and then I think we're probably going to have
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 1     about another two and a half hours -- two to two and a
 2     half hours following the break.  So it is five to 7:00,
 3     we'll be back here at 25 past.
 4  476                  Thank you.
 5                                                        1855
 6     --- Recess / Pause
 7  477                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  All right, Madame
 8     Secretary, shall we begin with the next group of
 9     presenters.
10  478                  THE SECRETARY:  If I can just make
11     sure that the following people are around the table: 
12     Sheshi Assanand, Meena Paranjpe -- did I say that close
13     to right?
14  479                  MS PARANJPE:  You said that right.
15  480                  THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.  John
16     Khuu.
17  481                  MR. KHUU:  Yes.
18  482                  THE SECRETARY:  Okay.  Is there
19     anyone else in the room who wants to speak tonight?
20  483                  MS PHAM:  You haven't mentioned my
21     name.
22  484                  THE SECRETARY:  I'm sorry.
23  485                  MS PHAM:  Trinh Pham.
24  486                  THE SECRETARY:  Oh, yes, I'm sorry.
25  487                  MS PHAM:  It's okay.
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 1  488                  THE SECRETARY:  Yes.  Trinh Pham?
 2  489                  MS PHAM:  Yes.
 3  490                  THE SECRETARY:  Great.
 4  491                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  (Off mic...)
 5  492                  THE SECRETARY:  You're going to do
 6     this together?  You're going to present separately, are
 7     you?
 8  493                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Yes.
 9  494                  THE SECRETARY:  Okay.
10  495                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  (Off mic...)
11  496                  THE SECRETARY:  You're negotiable,
12     aren't you?
13     --- Laughter / Rires
14  497                  THE SECRETARY:  Okay.  Thank you very
15     much.  We'll start with Sheshi Assanand.
16                                                        1930
17     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
18  498                  MS ASSANAND:  I work for an
19     organization which is called Vancouver and Lower
20     Mainland Multicultural Family Support Services, I'm the
21     Executive Director of the organization.  It's an
22     organization that works with immigrant and visible
23     minority women and children who experience family
24     violence.
25  499                  One of my goal of being present here
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 1     today is also to put the issue of women, especially
 2     immigrant and visible minority women on the table and
 3     the difficulties that they experience.  Our whole area
 4     of work is family violence.  More recently, our
 5     organization, together with People's Law School, which
 6     is a publicly legal education body that provides
 7     educational programs for the immigrant communities, as
 8     well as others.  We have received funding from Heritage
 9     Canada and the funding is to provide a culturally
10     sensitive service, sort of culturally sensitive
11     programming for immigrant population on the issue of
12     wife abuse, child abuse and senior abuse, which really
13     requires us to use the services of the ethnic media.
14  500                  And knowing that the ethnic media can
15     be -- or media by itself can be a very powerful tool to
16     reach out to the minority communities.  This is also
17     with the idea that family violence is a tabooed subject
18     which is very seldom spoken of in minority cultures. 
19     We find that our expertise and the knowledge of being
20     able to provide culturally sensitive services to
21     minority communities has prompted the funders to select
22     our services to reach out through the ethnic media.
23  501                  What I'm going to talk about is the
24     technical difficulties that we have encountered in
25     trying to reach out to the communities through the
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 1     ethnic media.
 2  502                  What we have discovered is that all
 3     the producers are independent producers.  There is very
 4     little consistency in the way they provide programming. 
 5     Our ability to reach out to the community entirely
 6     depends on the producer's interests in the issue, as I
 7     said it's a tabooed issue, so there are people who are
 8     not really interested in touching this particular
 9     topic.
10  503                  Secondly, we find that there is --
11     they lack resources, so there isn't any consistency in
12     the resources that they have, which makes it very
13     difficult for them and organizations like ours.
14  504                  The funding is limited, so there
15     isn't enough we can provide them, so really, it's
16     entirely dependent on what the producers can -- how
17     they can support us.  And that's where the difficulty
18     lies.
19  505                  I also want to compare -- this
20     project is a national project which means that Toronto
21     has it, the funding for it; Montreal has it and
22     Vancouver has it.
23  506                  Unfortunately for us, Toronto seems
24     to have very easy access to ethnic media and to the
25     ethnic communities; Montreal and Vancouver seem to be
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 1     having a lot of difficulties and again, as I said,
 2     there is that inconsistency in the policy.  What we
 3     would like to see is that some kind of a policy that --
 4     and also I want to make a point that ethnic
 5     organizations or, you know, multicultural organizations
 6     have -- are able to provide culturally sensitive
 7     approach in reaching out to the community and ethnic
 8     media can also be a very powerful tool to break down
 9     the taboos and so, we feel that a combination -- and
10     just by ourselves, it is very difficult to reach,
11     because they're not going to be taking an directives
12     from us.
13  507                  That if there was a consistent policy
14     and support to them, I think it would make a lot of
15     difference in making sure -- I also want to mention
16     that one of the reasons is that if you're talking about
17     the issue of family violence, you find that immigrant
18     and visible minority women who don't work, that's the
19     group we want to reach.  They're not going to read the
20     paper, they're not going to, sort of, watch mainstream
21     media in that sense and understand what's going on and
22     what is available to them.  So through our reaching
23     out, it's something that we can be sure that they
24     listen to the radios or they listen to the TV and learn
25     what the issue of violence is all about and what they
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 1     can do to remedy their situation.
 2  508                  So, keeping that in mind, and that's
 3     just one example, but then there are other examples. 
 4     Earlier on Mobina talked about AIDS and, you know,
 5     issues that are not openly talked about in our
 6     communities.  Parenting dilemmas are other very
 7     difficult subjects that minority communities need to
 8     deal with.
 9  509                  And to give you an example, very
10     recently what happened, we've been approaching ethnic
11     media and a Chinese multicultural channel said to us
12     that they are required by Rogers for us to prepare a
13     prototype tape for them to scrutinize.  If they like
14     it, it will go on.  Now, I want to say that it would be
15     very difficult for minimum resources that we have to
16     produce a prototype tape to be given out for them to
17     scrutinize and I think that that would really
18     jeopardize all the work that is being put in in this
19     particular project.  This is just an example of one
20     particular project, but what I'm really seeking -- it's
21     an example, what I'm seeking is that more support for
22     the ethnic media and the community organizations to
23     work together, because the information that needs to be
24     provided to the communities can come from us, but
25     through the ethnic media, and that needs to be sort of
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 1     taken into account.
 2  510                  So basically, I actually had not made
 3     any formal presentation, because I wasn't sure whether
 4     I would be able to attend this, sort of, hearing.  But
 5     I really would like to emphasize that women and
 6     children from ethnic minority communities are at the
 7     bottom of the ladder.  And any kind of programming that
 8     is happening for them needs to be taken into
 9     consideration and family violence is one such example.
10  511                  Thank you very much.
11  512                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
12     much.
13  513                  THE SECRETARY:  I finally caught on. 
14     You two are together, aren't you?
15  514                  MRS. PARANJPE:  Yes.
16  515                  THE SECRETARY:  Okay.  I would like
17     to invite Meena and Anand Paranjpe to make their
18     presentation now.
19     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
20  516                  MRS. PARANJPE:  By profession I'm a
21     Speech Pathologist, currently working as a Program
22     Manager in the South Fraser Region.
23  517                  As a part of my job, not as a Speech
24     Pathologist, but as a Program Manager of the
25     department, I have been also in the -- member of the
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 1     Regional Diversity Committee in South Fraser Region and
 2     a Chairperson for Langley Community Health for
 3     Diversity Committee.
 4  518                  Outside my job, I had worked as a
 5     President for India Music Society, Director and
 6     President both.  I had been a member of Indo-Canadian
 7     Community for over 31 years and I worked as my two-year
 8     term in the B.C. Arts Council.
 9  519                  Based on all this experience, I'm
10     going to share some of my thoughts.
11  520                  I find that in a pluralistic society,
12     there is a need for diversity of the program, diversity
13     of the cultures to be presented.  Just recently, in
14     Langley Community Health, when we did the Diversity
15     Week, we presented some various programs and the basic
16     purpose was to create an opportunity for people to gain
17     exposure in the diversity we have in our country, in
18     the multicultural fabric of our country.  And it was
19     very well received.
20  521                  After every program when we gave
21     questionnaires, just to give you a rough idea about 150
22     questionnaires, there wasn't a single person who said
23     they didn't like this project or they didn't like this
24     idea.  So people do want the opportunity to get some
25     exposure to diversity.  Whether it is through
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 1     educational projects, through lectures, even through
 2     food or even media programs, performing arts, they like
 3     it.
 4  522                  The analogy comes to my mind and we
 5     use that in our region to explain our purpose was a
 6     rainbow.  It is very hard to say where red colour ends
 7     and orange starts, for example, in a rainbow.  It's
 8     very cohesial.  The same thing happens in the
 9     community.  There is -- it becomes a cohesial
10     community.  Every ethnic community can keep their
11     identity and at the same time try to assimilate and
12     create a beautiful picture.
13  523                  In my mind, a red colour alone or an
14     orange colour alone is beautiful, but the rainbow,
15     which is a cumulative effect of all the colours is even
16     more beautiful.  And that's what my point is, if we
17     have the diversity in the programs, it's available, it
18     creates a more powerful, more effective effect and
19     that's what we want for a cohesial society.
20  524                  Then the question comes, as if it is
21     done locally here, there are some plus points because
22     it's more approachable for us, it's easier for us to
23     explain our needs, needs of the community, needs of our
24     project, needs of the purposes of our projects and then
25     they're likely to respond to that.  And that's the
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 1     experience I had so far.
 2  525                  As a Speech Pathologist, when I
 3     approached Rogers channel, they give a good exposure
 4     because speech -- speech disorders or communication
 5     problems are not limited to one particular community. 
 6     And when we wanted to make that appeal for people to
 7     give information for people where to go, how to deal
 8     with it, it was easy for us to deal with various
 9     communities and community channels with Rogers, because
10     it was locally done.
11  526                  So I would like to request that those
12     things continue.
13  527                  Thank you.
14  528                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
15     much.
16  529                  DR. PARANJPE:  I'm Anand Paranjpe. 
17     Like many, I wear, not just two, but many kinds of
18     hats.  And the two kinds that I want to represent today
19     is one like my wife, Meena, she and I have been in
20     performing arts, basically in the projection and
21     promoting of performing arts of Indian background,
22     which I have been doing for a long time here, for about
23     25 years in this community and nationally as founder
24     and former Director of the Raga-Mala Performing Arts of
25     Canada, which received grants from various sources, and
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 1     especially SSHRC several times for us to be able to go
 2     across the country and hunt out the talent that,
 3     regardless of their ethnic backgrounds have learned
 4     performing arts of India.
 5  530                  And that is the kind of medium which
 6     effectively reaches out to people of various kinds,
 7     performing arts being one kind of medium.
 8  531                  The other kind of hat that I'm
 9     talking about is myself as a Professor of Social
10     Psychology.  And currently a member of the Metropolis
11     Research Project, which is basically a research project
12     here with a team recognized as a Centre for Excellence
13     in the Study of Immigration.  And I have doctoral
14     students who have pursued doctoral studies in
15     psychology pertaining to especially youth problems in
16     growing up between cultures.
17  532                  So that's the kind of background.  In
18     addition, I have been also -- I have, for several
19     years, worked as a Director, one of the Directors of
20     the Shastri Indo-Canadian Institute, which promotes
21     cooperation between Indian and Canadian academics.  So
22     I come from various angles at this.
23  533                  In terms of the local situation of
24     the media in terms of the Rogers cable channel which
25     has been projecting out to the community at large, all
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 1     the way from pop art or "Bollywood" movies, as they are
 2     called, through to the presentation of classics of
 3     Indian culture, such as the "Mahabharata", for
 4     instance, the epic or its TV serialization, and let's
 5     say, the epic "Ramayana" and its serialization in
 6     contemporary forms, which reaches out not only to the
 7     Indo-Canadian community, but to communities at large.
 8  534                  I wish to point out, for instance,
 9     that there has been a presentation of "Ramayana", the
10     epic -- or rather, "Mahabharata", in international --
11     with an international cast by Peter Brook.  And these
12     kinds of ways of communicating the best of one culture
13     to other cultures through performing arts, I think
14     reaching out to a lot more people than we researchers
15     and the academia can.
16  535                  And it is this value of sharing
17     culture and its values through these media that makes
18     it relevant.  It's not simply that we can do that
19     nationally or from one central place as in Ontario; we
20     need local participation in it for, say, various
21     reasons.
22  536                  Let me add this point in terms of the
23     media of my other hat, which is working with youth
24     issues as a psychologist.
25  537                  Here in Vancouver, several years ago,
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 1     rather, more than twice, we have used the local channel
 2     to present to the community discussion or skits or
 3     various forms of presenting contemporary issues of the
 4     local community growing between cultures.
 5  538                  As an instance, the community is
 6     facing a problem of second generation immigrants
 7     getting married and Indian custom of arranged marriages
 8     has become a flash point in the community's current
 9     situation.  I, as a psychologist, along with social
10     workers, presented, with the help of the community, a
11     series of programs to reach out to people to talk about
12     what the issues are like.
13  539                  Such programming can be done not
14     simply nationally level, but it needs participation
15     from local persons, local community organizations and
16     local researchers.  And this is an effective way of
17     helping community face its problems and find solutions
18     by coordinating all kinds of expertise together.
19  540                  So these are the different kinds of
20     ways -- finally, one other important point that I wish
21     to suggest is that a country like Canada is going to
22     become culturally strong by keeping and promoting the
23     ancestral traditions.  I'm very proud to say that the
24     university I belong to, Simon Fraser, has a bagpipe --
25     Scottish bagpipe, that, for instance, beats out the
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 1     local natives in their own land by going from here and
 2     performing there.  I feel proud about being that.
 3  541                  And similarly, I would like to
 4     suggest that arts from all kinds of cultures should
 5     grow here and how are we going to allow -- do that,
 6     unless we have exposure to the community.  We need not
 7     centralize on this, we need to have local community
 8     participation who have local identity problems.  We
 9     need to have integration rather than either
10     assimilation or separation and "ghettoization".  And
11     the way of doing it is to share and to share the best
12     that any culture has to offer.  And unless selected
13     aspects of different cultures become part of ourselves,
14     both our community level and our personal level, we are
15     not going to get...
16  542                  And there are no -- no legislation
17     here.  People can switch on probably any channel
18     randomly and they can find some Korean film or Chinese
19     dance presentation and fall in love.  I wish to point
20     out that we have promoted, among other people, an
21     English person who is expert in "raagas" or a Japanese
22     Canadian person who presents "raagas" and we have been
23     looking for venues for presenting these artists who
24     actually assimilated the best of different cultures to
25     the public.
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 1  543                  And if we don't get these
 2     opportunities, we are collectively impoverishing
 3     ourselves, rather than enriching.  We better do a good
 4     use of the media.  We would take pride in saying that
 5     Canadians are among the top in communication media. 
 6     Let's use those communication media for the benefit of
 7     all of us regardless of our backgrounds.
 8  544                  That's my submission, Madame and sir.
 9  545                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
10     much, Dr. Paranjpe.
11  546                  THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter is
12     John Khuu.
13     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
14  547                  MR. KHUU:  Good evening everyone.  My
15     name is John and I'm currently enroling at BCIT.
16  548                  Today I represent for CYS, which is
17     stand for Civil Youth Strategy Group.  A group that's
18     pretty -- it's a pretty new group that provides service
19     for youths in the city.  And I also represent for the
20     Vietnamese Youths Nationalist Community in B.C.
21  549                  The reason for my presentation today
22     is to raise the voice of youth people regard to the
23     political thing like drugs and alcohol, gang, their
24     identity and their conflict that's happening
25     domestically or culturally.
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 1  550                  My presentation today is a
 2     consultation for Question 2, which is:
 3                            "Given the demographic changes
 4                            that have taken place in Canada,
 5                            how can the needs and interests
 6                            of ethnocultural communities
 7                            continue to be served?"
 8  551                  First, I want to list four major
 9     problems that's commonly happen to youth's people
10     nowadays.
11  552                  The first one is drug and alcohol, as
12     I just said; the second is gang, and; the third is
13     their identity in the community; the fourth is conflict
14     with their family, like between youths and their
15     parents.
16  553                  So in order to serve their needs and
17     interests in the right way, I would think that the
18     programming content in TV should focus more on those
19     problems.  For example, having a program that's present
20     about the dangerous side of drugs, like the side
21     effect, socio-relation, et cetera.
22  554                  Having a program that's present about
23     the gang issues in their community.  Having a program
24     that's present about the youths' identity in the
25     community, like -- probably something like award
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 1     recognition or community service for youths, et cetera. 
 2     And lastly is having a program that's present about the
 3     solution for a problem that's relate in the conflict
 4     which usually happen between youth people and their
 5     parents.  So from that, youth people have more chance
 6     to raise their own voice to make their own voice
 7     recognized to their parents and other people in their
 8     community in general.
 9  555                  Thank you.
10  556                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
11     much.
12  557                  THE SECRETARY:  And next we have
13     Trinh Pham.
14  558                  MS PHAM:  Before addressing the
15     principle questions identified in the Public Notice, I
16     would like to introduce myself.  My name is Trinh Pham,
17     I am a student at Simon Fraser University and the
18     University of British Columbia.  And I'm here this
19     evening as one of the youth representatives for the
20     Vancouver Civic Youth Strategy Committee like John, and
21     also from the Vietnamese Youth Nationalist Community in
22     B.C.
23  559                  The Vietnamese Canadian population in
24     the Lower Mainland is approximately 16,000.  Although
25     we are not large in size, the community is devoted to
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 1     establishing and fostering both Vietnamese and Canadian
 2     traditional cultural values and beliefs.
 3  560                  The views I present here tonight come
 4     from the concerns expressed at the Vietnamese community
 5     over the past few years.  And as a Canadian citizen and
 6     a youth in the community, I believe that the matters
 7     under consideration are extremely important, because as
 8     demographic change, our priorities and cultural values
 9     need to meet the needs of the people.  So if these
10     issues weren't a concern for Canadians then public
11     consultations across the country are unnecessary like
12     the one tonight.
13  561                  Moreover, the minority and especially
14     youth voices have been ignored or not taken seriously
15     lately.  Therefore an emphasis is needed to reach out
16     and collect youth expressions and concerns.
17  562                  The present broadcasting system has
18     "adequately" -- and I quote that -- served Canada's
19     ethnocultural communities in the recent years.  These
20     services, however, are not -- are often dependent on
21     program availability and/or where programs are
22     purchased.  Programs that have been aired on television
23     especially, have been brought mainly to our
24     neighbourhoods from the United States.
25  563                  This issue is one of the main
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 1     concerns of the Vietnamese community.  It is a concern
 2     because if the program is purchased from the States, it
 3     will portray the cultures of the Americans instead of
 4     the Canadians.  News clips, for example, are relatively
 5     appropriate since they reflect the current events
 6     around the world.  On the other hand, the programs,
 7     they lack Canadian content and Canadian issues such as
 8     cultural aspects, arts, performing arts, recent events
 9     and community profile.  In essence, we lose out on our
10     culture and the benefits to grow together as a mosaic
11     community.
12  564                  In addition, the present broadcasting
13     system had failed to realize the needs of the
14     Vietnamese community.  The majority of the Vietnamese
15     in Canada are political refugees, people who have left
16     Vietnam for political reasons, not economic. 
17     Therefore, programs that are purchased overseas from
18     places such as Vietnam and shown on Canadian television
19     create a catastrophe, a domino effect you can say on
20     the Vietnamese community at large.
21  565                  An excellent example of this was the
22     recent uproar seen and witnessed through a CNN news
23     broadcast report. This uprising was caused by programs
24     from Vietnam promoting the idea of communism and as
25     political refugees, here we share a common interest
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 1     under the same political umbrella, we do not want
 2     programs that are brought from Vietnam or other places
 3     promoting the issues of communism to be aired on
 4     Canadian television.
 5  566                  Issues such as this come near to the
 6     heart of the Vietnamese community.  In response, the
 7     CRTC needs to pay closer attention to issues that the
 8     ethnic community regards as repression, because silence
 9     does not mean agreement.
10  567                  Currently the multicultural channel
11     does not support us in a way is such that we believe
12     that the multicultural channel should not be privately
13     controlled by different groups, for example the
14     Vietnamese channel is controlled by privatization. 
15     However, we believe that this responsibility control
16     should belong to the Board of Directors.  These are the
17     people who are elected and nominated by the members of
18     the community.
19  568                  In terms of radio access to
20     communities at large, it is limited.  Why are we not
21     using our full radio band to full use and have
22     different communities have access to them?  What are
23     the capabilities of setting up a radio station?  What
24     are the steps?  These are not expressed.
25  569                  Radio airtime are often too expensive
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 1     for community and often the radio station impose such
 2     as advertising on each community.  Within our own
 3     community in the Vietnamese over the last year, we have
 4     tried to buy airtime on 1320-AM, however over -- after
 5     one year we were imposed that our own advertising could
 6     not be used and only advertising from the station can
 7     be used, therefore there is no funding coming back to
 8     the community.  As a result, we have been doing tapes
 9     and issuing tapes for the community and asking for
10     donations for these tapes instead of having airtime.
11  570                  So we would like to know where the
12     CRTC fits in to review individual programs if there is
13     such a policy; if not, we ask that one be created.
14  571                  With regards to youth issues, the
15     current programs failed also to serve youths.  How
16     often are youth positively portrayed on television or
17     radio?  Not very often.
18  572                  Speaking for a youth perspective, we
19     are voiceless in society because we do not have the
20     power or money, nor are we in a position to be noticed
21     for our position contribution.  Only our negative
22     actions attract the camera and the microphone.
23  573                  Television and radio program topics
24     have neglected to deal with issues that are important
25     to us.  For instance, generation and cultural gaps in
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 1     society, family values, role models, employment and
 2     higher education.  Moreover, the system has focused on
 3     mainly ethnic youth, especially in the crime area.
 4  574                  I am often asked if I belong to a
 5     gang because of my Vietnamese background, especially
 6     after a program that has been focused on ethnic gang
 7     crime or any negative aspects of youth.  Whatever
 8     happened to the positive side of youth?  Doesn't anyone
 9     care any more?  I do care and the people in my
10     community do.
11  575                  The negative portrayal of youths does
12     indeed lead youths into cultural pride loss and
13     uninterest in their own culture, and that is a shame
14     for loss for one's cultural heritage.
15  576                  The needs and interests of the
16     ethnoculture in the Vietnamese community can continue
17     to be served by giving the voices ample opportunity to
18     become part of the mainstream voice.  This can be
19     accomplished through regular consultations with the
20     ethnic community Boards of Director.  For instance,
21     issues such as proper access to programming, station
22     programming view and et cetera.
23  577                  Moreover, let the communities become
24     advisory boards to the CRTC when needed.  For example,
25     the Public Notice tonight should have reached every
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 1     community in advance.  We did not receive this Notice
 2     until last week, and more time was needed to prepare
 3     and collect community input.
 4  578                  Also, have the program more widely
 5     available, because those who can't afford cable will be
 6     unable to view such programs.  There also needs to be
 7     sub-titles, closed captioning for viewers who wish to
 8     view programs in other language or culture.
 9  579                  And yes, there should definitely be a
10     priority on development of Canadian ethnocultural
11     services, rather than importing foreign services.  The
12     Vietnamese community supports this idea because first,
13     it will provide jobs for Canadians and taxpayers'
14     dollars should remain in the country.  Second, it will
15     allow for the incorporation of our cultural activities
16     within our cultural realm.  Third, if these
17     Canadian-made programs are successful and desired by
18     other countries, we are not only bringing revenues into
19     the country, but also allowing our broadcasting
20     industry to competently grow.  Fourth, by investing in
21     local programming, Canadian values and mosaic
22     commitments to the ethnocultural communities will be
23     recognized and better received by Canadians.
24  580                  In summary, the CRTC, in what we
25     believe to be need to express that the voices and
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 1     provide them with the opportunity to become part of the
 2     existing voice.  The issues of youth, especially youth
 3     of ethnic background are issues which are important to
 4     them.  Allow the ethnic community Boards of Directors
 5     to assist in ethnic issues such as an advisory board. 
 6     Have more Canadian content through the development of
 7     Canadian ethnocultural services rather than importing
 8     foreign services.
 9  581                  And lastly, be cautious of programs
10     brought from other countries as not to offend a
11     community that the programs purchased from Vietnam
12     promoting communism.
13  582                  Thank you.
14  583                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
15     much.
16  584                  THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter is
17     David Ali.
18                                                        2000
19     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
20  585                  MR. ALI:  Members of the Commission,
21     my name is David Ali.  I'm a Canadian citizen,
22     originally from Fiji.  I lived in the United Kingdom
23     for nine years before immigrating to Canada.  I'm an
24     Engineer with BC Tel.  I'm also a Secretary for B.C.
25     Muslim Association in one of the branches.
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 1  586                  I appreciate this opportunity to
 2     appear before you today to present my view on the CRTC
 3     Ethnic Broadcasting Policy.
 4  587                  I would like to see sources made
 5     available to the Islamic value program through the
 6     Canadian ethnic broadcasting services.  Instead of
 7     importing programs from overseas, it would be better if
 8     these programs could be assembled here and people
 9     voluntary or hired for the job.
10  588                  Most of the Canadian programs that
11     are available here, which are shown on the mainstream
12     of the TV are probably early in the morning at six
13     o'clock or 7:00 in the morning when people are sleeping
14     or late at night at one o'clock or two o'clock, and
15     most of the younger generation are not watching the TV
16     at that time of the day.
17  589                  I would like to see some of these
18     programs at the -- earlier on at maybe six o'clock in
19     the evening or, you know, whatever the time is
20     suitable.
21  590                  Actually, Rogers is doing a pretty
22     good job of bringing all the ethnic together, but they
23     still neglect all the Islamic programs to some extent. 
24     This could only be achieved by bringing the mainstream
25     TV broadcasting service and then providing this service
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 1     to the community.
 2  591                  I would think the youth will
 3     appreciate that and at the same time, it will be a
 4     service to the youth who are coming up into this
 5     country where things are a little different than at
 6     home.
 7  592                  I would also like to point out the
 8     misconcept people have, because they have no idea why
 9     our women dress up the way they do, why the older
10     generation behaves the way they do.  The only way to
11     take this misconcept out of the system is to have some
12     sort of media which will channel this thing to the
13     people.
14  593                  I appreciate this opportunity to
15     express my view, and thank you very much.
16  594                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very
17     much.
18  595                  I think -- Madame Secretary...?
19  596                  THE SECRETARY:  Is there anyone else
20     in the room who has not presented that wants to
21     present?
22  597                  Could I have your name, please?
23     --- No response / Pas de reponse
24  598                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  I actually am
25     here on behalf of a friend who couldn't make it, so she
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 1     wants -- she has a letter here that she would like me
 2     to read out for her.
 3  599                  THE SECRETARY:  Okay.
 4  600                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Is that okay?
 5  601                  THE SECRETARY:  What's your friend's
 6     name?
 7  602                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Her name is
 8     Nancy Li, that's L-i.
 9  603                  THE SECRETARY:  Okay.
10  604                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  And I've got
11     copies of the letter that I can give you later or now.
12  605                  THE SECRETARY:  Mm-hmm.  Go ahead,
13     please.
14     PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
15  606                  W. YOUNG:  Her letter states, and
16     these are her views, obviously:
17  607                  My name is Nancy Li.  I am a regular
18     listener, audience and consumer of the Chinese media. 
19     The concerns I have today relate particularly to the
20     Chinese Pay television.
21  608                  I believe the role of an ethnic
22     language media in a multicultural society plays an
23     equally important role as the mainstream media in
24     informing its viewers.  Given that our mainstream media
25     is monolingual and monocultural, ethnic media plays a
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 1     much greater role in terms of integrating its viewers
 2     into the society at large.
 3  609                  For many in the Chinese community,
 4     China's language television is their only source of
 5     information of the society they live in and of the
 6     outside world.  They rely on the television for news,
 7     community issues and information of the society.  Many
 8     bilingual Chinese/English in the community also find it
 9     easier to understand the news in their mother tongue.
10  610                  One only has to compare the number of
11     Chinese language newspapers, hours of radio broadcast
12     and the viewership of Chinese Pay television with the
13     number of Chinese population to understand the hunger
14     for news and information within the Chinese community. 
15     This should help you understand -- excuse me.
16  611                  This should help you understand the
17     power of the Chinese language media that has over this
18     community.  The need to inform the Chinese public of
19     the local events, news and culture is event.  However,
20     I must say that this need has not been met.  It seems
21     to me that the Chinese Paid television has been relying
22     very heavily on Hong Kong and Taiwan imports.
23  612                  The day program time is filled up by
24     reruns of the same soap opera of the night before,
25     followed by other decade-old soaps.  The evening prime
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 1     time differs by one news program and one local
 2     production which includes reruns of old W-5 episodes. 
 3     The rest of the evening is taken up by soap operas that
 4     rehash themes of dysfunctional family disputes and
 5     crime dramas.
 6  613                  If we were to believe that television
 7     has any impact on the behaviour of the audience,
 8     especially those of young viewers, then I would have to
 9     say that the current Chinese television programs are
10     influencing viewers in a very negative way and doing
11     very little to inform or integrate the viewers with
12     their local lives.
13  614                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.
14  615                  THE SECRETARY:  I believe that's all
15     the presenters we have here at this time.
16  616                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  I'd
17     just like to thank the panel for taking the time to
18     come and share your views with us.  It's very important
19     as we do our deliberations that we hear from people
20     across the country and I very much appreciate it and so
21     does my colleague.
22  617                  Thank you very much for coming.
23  618                  So I think we'll take a 10 minute
24     break.
25     --- Recess / Pause
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 1  619                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  It doesn't appear
 2     we have any more presenters for today and I believe
 3     that concludes the presentations for this evening. 
 4     Have you anything to add?
 5  620                  THE SECRETARY:  Nothing at this time.
 6  621                  THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you and thank
 7     you everybody for being here and we will reconvene
 8     tomorrow at 4:00 p.m.
 9     --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2018 /
10         L'audience est ajournée à 2018
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