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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT / SUJET:
Various broadcasting applications further to calls for
applications for licences to carry on radio programming
undertakings to serve Chilliwack and Vancouver, British Columbia /
Plusieurs demandes en radiodiffusion suite aux appels de demandes
de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'une
entreprise de programmation de radio pour desservir Chilliwack et
Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique)
HELD AT: TENUE À:
The Empire Landmark The Empire Landmark
1400 Robson Street 1400, rue Robson
Vancouver, B.C. Vancouver (C.-B.)
February 28, 2008 Le 28 février 2008
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Various broadcasting applications further to calls for
applications for licences to carry on radio programming
undertakings to serve Chilliwack and Vancouver, British Columbia /
Plusieurs demandes en radiodiffusion suite aux appels de demandes
de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'une
entreprise de programmation de radio pour desservir Chilliwack et
Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique)
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Helen del Val Chairperson / Présidente
Rita Cugini Commissioner / Conseillère
Elizabeth Duncan Commissioner / Conseillère
Peter Menzies Commissioner / Conseiller
Ronald Williams Commissioner / Conseiller
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Jade Roy Secretary / Secretaire
Joe Aguiar Hearing Manager /
Gérant de l'audience
Carolyn Pinsky Legal Counsel /
Conseillère juridique
HELD AT: TENUE À:
The Empire Landmark The Empire Landmark
1400 Robson Street 1400, rue Robson
Vancouver, B.C. Vancouver (C.-B.)
February 28, 2008 Le 28 février 2008
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I (Cont.)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Matthew Gordon McBride (OBCI) 980 / 5530
PHASE II
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Vista Radio Ltd. 1053 / 6094
6851916 Canada Inc. 1061 / 6152
Rock 95 Broadcasting Ltd. 1073 / 6215
In House Communications Inc. 1083 / 6280
The Coast 104.1 FM Inc. 1086 / 6302
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 1093 / 6340
PHASE III
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Michael Norman 1098 / 6376
Barbara Dortsch 1132 / 6613
Eagle-Com Marketing 1140 / 6653
Ryan Donn 1153 / 6717
Grrrls with Guitars 1167 / 6797
Convergent Entertainment 1175 / 6825
Jim Byrnes 1184 / 6872
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE III (Cont.)
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Convergent Entertainment 1175 / 6825
Jim Byrnes 1184 / 6872
Dennis Nokony 1188 / 6887
Duane Geddes 1193 / 6908
Nuu-chah-nulth Economic Development Corporation 1208 / 6984
29 Productions 1216 / 6995
Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Vancouver 1221 / 7014
Pete Mason 1234 / 7101
Sarah Seage 1239 / 7134
Brenda-Lee Sasaki 1242 / 7151
RockSTAR Music Corp. 1259 / 7279
Ron Taverner 1267 / 7315
Cultural Olympiad 1273 / 7349
Elka Yarlowe 1282 / 7389
MusicBC 1299 / 7515
Aboriginal Voices Radio 1305 / 7553
Greater Vancouver Food Bank Society 1314 / 7603
I.T. Productions Ltd. 1316 / 7619
Cordova Bay Entertainment Group 1323 / 7660
Theresa Point 1329 / 7695
Vancouver, B.C. / Vancouver (C.‑B.)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Thursday, February 28, 2008
at 0830 / L'audience débute le jeudi 28 février
2008 à 0830
LISTNUM 1 \l 1 \s 55285528 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the last applicant for the Vancouver market. We will proceed with Item No. 17, which is an application by Matthew Gordon McBride, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15529 Please introduce yourself and your colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 15530 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15531 Madam Chair and Commissioners, good morning. My name is Matthew McBride and I am the applicant for a new FM radio station to serve the City of Port Moody in British Columbia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15532 I am a current licensee. I operate CHMZ‑FM 90.1 The Bear in Tofino, CIMN‑FM 99.5 The Edge in Ucluelet, and CFPV‑FM 98.7 Spud Valley Radio in Pemberton, B.C.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15533 Of these, Tofino and Ucluelet are currently operational. Pemberton will sign on as soon as the snow melts on the mountain and we can get our installation teams there to hang up our antenna.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15534 Over the years I have been extremely fortunate to work with many of the best broadcasters in our industry, including many who have appeared before you this week, and I am very pleased to introduce to the Commission three more of those very fine broadcasters, who are joining me today to present our proposal for a new radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15535 To my left is Doreen Copeland, a virtual legend in this town for her almost 30 years of experience working as an on‑air talent and music director, at the same station, through various formats.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15536 It is a particular honour to have Doreen sitting with me today, because it was Doreen who first taught me the basics of music direction when I showed up at KISS‑FM here in Vancouver in the mid‑eighties. Her knowledge and skill inspired me to pursue programming and music direction, and much of what I know today was first introduced to me by Doreen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15537 Doreen is a valuable resource as we explore the music we intend to broadcast on CKPM in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15538 Beside Doreen is Barry Wall, 30 years in broadcasting, including on‑air programming and management roles. Barry has contributed his valuable knowledge to the framework of the concept of Port Moody radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15539 Barry is currently the Operations Manager for McBride Communications and Media, which is the company that oversees the day‑to‑day operations of the radio stations that we are responsible for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15540 Additionally, Barry is a resident of the tricities area, of which Port Moody is a part, and Barry will be leading the studio and technical build‑out should our application find favour with the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15541 On my right‑hand side is Eric Stansfield. Eric brings to us an invaluable insight into our Port Moody radio project. He is a highly skilled broadcaster, with over 25 years of experience in radio and television programming and production, with an impressive list of contacts and associates in this industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15542 He is also a long‑term resident of Port Moody, and, in fact, lives within sight of our intended studio location, which would come in handy in the case of storms or hard‑drive failures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15543 It was Eric who conducted much of our street‑level support and business research activities, and helped to interpret the data that we found to help us understand the Port Moody market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15544 I will now begin our opening presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15545 Members of the Commission, on March 3rd, residents of the City of Port Moody are invited to City Hall to voice their comments and ask questions over the proposed Evergreen Line Route. The Evergreen Line is part of a region‑wide mass transit initiative linking communities along the north side of the Fraser River with Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15546 This is the largest transit initiative that the region has ever seen, and has been under some form of discussion or consideration for most of the past 30 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15547 Next week, Port Moody City Council is asking the community to visit and voice their opinions. The odds on those citizens hearing about this session on an FM radio station in the Lower Mainland are zero.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15548 The Squamish and Musqueam Bands of the Coast Salish people have an 8,000‑year footprint in Port Moody, using the area to fish and hunt. Western settlers moved to the area over 200 years ago, first for the fur trade, and then the Cariboo Gold Rush, and in 1859 the Royal Engineers, under the command of Colonel Richard Moody, blazed a trail along what is now North Road, connecting Burrard Inlet with New Westminster as a defensive supply route, in case the then capital of B.C. were to be attacked from the south.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15549 In 1886 Port Moody was named the original Pacific terminus for the Transcontinental Railroad that was instrumental in building our nation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15550 As fate would have it, the railroad was eventually pushed forward to just a few blocks from here, in Coal Harbour, but much of the industry that settled there remained, and in 1913 Port Moody was incorporated as a city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15551 Port Moody bills itself as "The City of the Arts". It is at the head of Burrard Inlet, the foot of Eagle Mountain, and is home to 30,000 residents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15552 The city describes itself as an easy 40‑minute drive from downtown Vancouver, which would only be true if you were leading a police chase ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 15553 MR. McBRIDE: ‑‑ and is tucked around the far side of Burnaby Mountain.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15554 The adjacent communities of Port Coquitlam and Coquitlam, together, form the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15555 Commissioners, we are very pleased today to appear before you to present our application for a new FM station to serve the community of Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15556 The community of Port Moody has long since evolved from a bedroom suburb of Vancouver into its own unique persona, routed in its history, environment and, significantly, a reputation for its artistic attributes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15557 This artistic facet of Port Moody life is embodied with the highly respected Port Moody Arts Centre and its proactive and exciting mandate to enrich community life by encouraging and supporting the development of arts, culture and tourism, and inspiring a vibrant future while respecting the past.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15558 A variety of visual art centres are featured in the community's Arts Walking Tour, which attracts thousands of tourists and locals every year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15559 The city's community information website contains multiple cultural events for virtually every day of the year, from social events to physical activities to panel discussions on politics, books, ideas and issues, to unique events that you never hear about on the air here, events like the Persian New Year Tea Party, the Festival du Bois, and monthly events at the Place des Arts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15560 There is also the War Child Canada Fundraiser Concert. This event occurs annually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15561 And next week at the Inlet Theatre audiences will gather to hear Sam's Falling, an alternative act; Samuel Sixto, performing French classical music; Joanna Rader, a pop artist; James Monroe's acoustic alternative set; and Maxx James, performing blues and rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15562 The event will sell out. All of these artists are local, all meet the definition of emerging Canadian artists, and all fall within the broad definition of a "Triple A" format. The odds on hearing any of these artists on Vancouver radio today are zero.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15563 That is a typical day in the cultural life of Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15564 I would now like to present to you Eric Stansfield, broadcaster and resident of Port Moody, to deliver some elementary economic points about the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15565 MR. STANSFIELD: Thank you, Matthew, and thank you to the Commission for hearing our presentation this morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15566 As you have heard, the area of Metro Vancouver, known as the tricities, is made up of the cities of Port Moody, Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam. They have all experienced enormous growth over the past 10 to 15 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15567 From a residential figure, the City of Port Moody has grown from a population of just over 20,000 in 1996 to a B.C. Census estimate of 30,000 in 2007.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15568 As well, the cities of Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam have seen their share of growth. Port Coquitlam totalled over $74 million in new construction in 2006, and the building growth continues in Coquitlam, with new developing neighbourhoods throughout the city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15569 Port Moody is currently experiencing residential and commercial growth previously unseen. Building permits have gone from $24.9 million in 2000 to over $190 million in 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15570 Business licences have nearly doubled in five years, from just over 1,000 in 2001 to over 2,000 in 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15571 Enough of the dollars and cents. We are talking about three cities that like to have fun. They support and boast year‑round events, festivals, the arts, and the diverse culture of the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15572 As you have already heard, Port Moody has its highly successful Golden Spike Days, which attract visitors from all over Metro Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15573 Coquitlam hosts the Festival du Bois in Maillardville, the largest francophone community west of Winnipeg.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15574 Port Coquitlam is the birthplace and the hometown of the Terry Fox Run, and it is now celebrated worldwide.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15575 Port Moody not only offers its residents lovely and modern neighbourhoods in which to raise families, it also has the natural beauty of mountains, waterfront parks, and plenty of recreation. The same can be said for Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15576 Together, the tricities offer a lifestyle that is unique within Metro Vancouver. It is most definitely an area that is on the move forward.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15577 And as a resident of Newport Village, in the heart of Port Moody, I can assure the Commission that this community is ready to embrace this radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15578 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Eric.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15579 Now, Barry Wall, our Operations Manager, will review our business research tactics.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15580 MR. WALL: Thank you, Matthew.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15581 Good morning. Our application used an old‑fashioned method of primary research, held on three distinct levels. First, we executed a face‑to‑face interview campaign with business owners in the area, and completed survey documents for over 10 percent of the entire retail business community in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15582 We followed up with focused interviews with select businesses, and completed a third round of revenue research interviews to determine attitudes and opportunities for radio advertising within the Port Moody market, and used those research figures to build our programming concept and revenue forecasts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15583 We conducted several individual interviews with city planners and business and economic development staff, to get an understanding of the behaviour of the retail market and the municipal growth plans for the future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15584 Not surprisingly, we discovered that a community with two newspapers and no radio station would really like to resolve that gap in media presence, and our business proposition was strongly encouraged by city staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15585 They pointed us in the direction of key economic indicators to help us develop a financial plan, and led the way to direct discussions with key community members in business and culture to help us shape a totally unique and local radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15586 Finally, we held 200 personal or telephone interviews with Port Moody residents to determine issues related to format and music, using a qualitative approach. It became clear to us in our discussions that a contemporary music format with a broad, beyond the charts, beyond a format approach, would work within the community, and that, as important as the music would be, what we put between the records would be critical.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15587 We spent the bulk of our business and programming research in direct discussions with real people, real business, and real governance agencies in Port Moody to develop the foundations of CKPM‑FM Port Moody Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15588 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Barry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15589 Now we turn to our very own disenfranchised female, Doreen Copeland, with a brief discussion on our music proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15590 MS COPELAND: Thank you, Matthew.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15591 CKPM‑FM Port Moody will adopt the same eclectic, artsie and diverse attitude that the community itself puts forward.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15592 Our music programming will be comprised of 75 percent Category 2 popular music, 12.5 percent Category 3 ‑‑ you might want to note that change ‑‑ jazz, and 12.5 percent Category 3 world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15593 While we do not necessarily wish to peg this music into a specific format, for understanding, it would be defined as "Triple A".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15594 Today's most widely played "Triple A" acts would be represented on our playlist by what the charts are showing right now, people like Sheryl Crow, Robert Plant and Alison Krause ‑‑ and if you haven't heard their album, you are in for a treat ‑‑ Jack Johnson, Feist, and KD Lang.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15595 The popularity of the music format we propose is apparent. Its aggressiveness and exploratory nature was reflected in Sunday night's Oscar‑winning song called "Falling Slowly". It was from a very little movie out of Ireland, which I think they spent $200,000 filming. The movie is called "Once", and the song won the Oscar, and the song is played only on "Triple A" radio, from what I could find in my research.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15596 What is interesting about that song and that movie ‑‑ I have a 16‑year‑old daughter. We saw the movie together, and both of us were, like, "Where is the Kleenex?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 15597 It was an incredible little movie, and when we were watching the Oscars on Sunday night we both went, "Oh, my God, they won!" It was so exciting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15598 Her friends don't know about this song. My friends don't know about this song, other than us talking about this fabulous movie and the fabulous soundtrack, because it is not on a radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15599 Anyway, I diverse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15600 We recognize that the "Triple A" format is being proposed in various forms by a number of other applicants who responded to the August 10th, 2007, Call for Applications, and wish to point out that this application, and its attendant format proposal, was actually filed with the Commission a full month before the Vancouver call was issued.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15601 The format we propose has been supported through our research as one which would find broad acceptance in our target market, and, further, a "Triple A" format is one of the very few formats that lends itself almost perfectly to the objective of supporting emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15602 "Triple A", by its nature, goes off the straight and narrow. It digs deep, and it looks for new sounds and styles and approaches to modern music. This is exactly the realm in which emerging artists operate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15603 We will maintain, of course, a minimum of 35 percent Canadian content between 6 a.m. and midnight for the entire term of licence, or at any subsequent level, for radio stations within our licence class, as determined by the CRTC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15604 Approximately 40 percent of our total songs played in a given week will meet our definition of emerging artist, as expressed in our Form 101 submission. An average of three songs per hour will be Canadian emerging artists, and a guaranteed minimum of one Canadian emerging artist will be played in every hour where music is programmed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15605 Additionally, CKPM‑FM Port Moody will feature local emerging artists, defined as those from the Greater Vancouver Regional District, in a feature broadcast weeknights at 7 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15606 This feature, 10 minutes each airing, will include artist information, interview, music purchase and acquisition information, and the airplay of a selected song.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15607 The feature will be restricted to songs that meet the definition of Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15608 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Doreen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15609 Once a month we will broadcast live from one of a number of local live music venues, beginning with Joe's Atlantic Grill, which holds Newfie nights on the last Sunday of every month, bringing in regional artists who specialize in East Coast genres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15610 Preliminary discussions with two other local venues have been held, and additional venues will be added over the course of the first 18 months of our operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15611 An operation the size we are proposing has a couple of challenges today. One of them is that we cannot hope to compete at the dollar volume of Astral's, Harvard's, and other applicants at this hearing, and our business plan doesn't allow us to maintain a permanent CCD administrative infrastructure. Therefore, our best solution may be the most beneficial, and certainly is the simplest ‑‑ we are going to whip out our chequebook and start writing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15612 The radio station intends to be a community focal point for all major community events, including the annual Golden Spike Days, a Canada Day‑oriented festival that features, amongst other things, a very popular and highly attended vocal talent contest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15613 In addition to promotional support, CKPM‑FM will be putting forward an annual cash reward for the winning singer and runners‑up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15614 A significant part of our proposal regarding Canadian content development is the financial support of musical instrument purchases in local high schools, contributions to local performances in association with cultural events, such as the War Child Concert previously noted, and an allowance for production expenses for our local emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15615 We will maintain a base payment to FACTOR annually, and an additional voluntary payment above the minimums, both to FACTOR and to direct support within our community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15616 We will not make any request to FACTOR related to the distribution of our contribution.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15617 Finally, we pegged our annual CCD contributions to our forecasted revenue, as we anticipate annual growth, so we allocated a predictable sum to CCD initiatives in the form of cash.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15618 We also intend to maintain those dollar volumes proposed in our application should our revenue fall short, but will expand those dollar contributions should our revenues exceed our forecast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15619 CKPM‑FM Port Moody is a truly local radio station dedicated to the community. We will produce 126 hours per week from our studios in Port Moody's Newport Village.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15620 We will be live from 5 a.m. until 7 p.m. Monday through Friday, and 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. on weekends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15621 Our evening voice‑tracked hours will be used as a training ground for our newest and developing on‑air talent, so that they will have the benefit of virtual real‑time broadcasting, and the ability to hear themselves on the air. With the vast use of automation in our industry today, traditional training areas, such as evenings and overnights, are virtually non‑existent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15622 We will use our voice‑track time to develop local broadcast talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15623 The station will carry 872 minutes of spoken word programming, of which 198 will be news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15624 Local news comprises 80 percent of this volume. The remaining 20 percent will be for regional, provincial and national issues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15625 Of the remaining time, 25 minutes per day, or 125 minutes per week, will be dedicated to "Port Moody Talks", our daily talk show.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15626 The remaining time will be consumed in commuter service reports, climate reports, and community billboard programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15627 These times do not include DJ ad libs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15628 The CKPM business plan was developed using the results of our primary research. Revenues were forecast based on our prior experience operating radio stations in small markets, factoring in the very positive feedback we received from local businesses, suggesting that we could expect to obtain about one‑third of the businesses' existing ad budget, which goes primarily to newspapers, and that would be re‑routed to a local station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15629 This seemingly high volume of transference is reflective of an aggressively structured rate card. Most businesses in the tricities area simply cannot afford to advertise on Vancouver radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15630 Our overall growth estimates were derived from known growth factors taken from period‑to‑period reports obtained from the CRTC and other research sources, and our expense growth rates were generally pegged either to the known rate of inflation or to our actual experience. Where possible, costing was done with the anticipated vendors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15631 Commissioners, you are aware that I currently hold licences in Ucluelet, Tofino, and Pemberton, B.C. I started my career in broadcasting over 27 years ago in a small town, and while I spent most of my time in big cities, I have always had a strong passion for small‑town radio. I am, after all, a local boy, from a small town in the Fraser Valley, just a few miles upriver from Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15632 Our dedication to community service is simple: 100 percent local content, talent and presence, which has worked out very successfully in our existing markets. We call it "Uber" service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15633 Our stations on the west coast of Vancouver Island regularly host live performances on the air, deliver a very high level of local, emerging artist exposure, and are staffed entirely by locals. We find them, we train them, and we let them reflect their own towns and villages.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15634 By finding and developing local broadcast talent, we have seen the introduction of some amazing local characters like Chainsaw Pete, our relationships counsellor; Jim the Naked Oyster Farmer, our cooking expert and political commentator; and Boathouse Bonnie, an environmental activist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15635 These are real people, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15636 We hold unusual and highly popular local contests like "Blindfold Crab Pot Surprise", "Lick that Flounder", "Deer Drop Bingo", and the 99.5 Daily Prize.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15637 These are real contests, with real deer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15638 We get the locals on the radio. In Ucluelet, the Mayor hosts a weekly talk show on Thursdays, and the Chamber of Commerce is in on Friday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15639 "Coastal Affairs" runs weekly in Tofino, associated with a nationally recognized news website, "westcoaster.ca".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15640 The radio stations we operate are staffed live every day of the week, and are true partners in community service, delivering a professional attitude and professional equipment, and supporting programming and business services locally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15641 "We may be local, but we ain't yocal" is our motto.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15642 We are particularly proud of our commitment to emergency services. Recently, a young boy went missing on a beach near Tofino, and within hours, and, in part, through the publicity given by our radio stations, the largest land, air and sea search in the region's history was conducted. Our public call for help had to be rescinded when authorities were overwhelmed by the response to our announcements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15643 Our Ucluelet operation includes an emergency broadcast position inside the Emergency Service Building, which is accessible 24 hours per day, seven days per week, by police and firefighters. It is a simple breakaway switch that allows program interruption whenever officials deem it necessary, and when a staff member is not immediately available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15644 This emergency service was used recently to advise residents of extreme hazards on local beaches during a hurricane, and last year was incorporated into a coastal security exercise by the Canadian Navy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15645 We are integrated with the Provincial Emergency Service Program's Tsunami Warning System at the second level. When a tsunami warning is issued, our operations are contacted after local and civic authorities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15646 Twice in the past three years we have rolled out a staff member to respond to tsunami warnings. Fortunately, neither event resulted in an actual tsunami.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15647 We play local music by local artists like Lance Blackwell, The Bottomfeeders, Kinnie Star and Mark Morrison ‑‑ unknown here, but I assure you, widely exposed on our local radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15648 Let's face it, what's the point of having a local radio station if you don't play local artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15649 With a total coverage of about 8,000 persons, we run two, fully live, locally produced radio stations in some of the roughest climate on the coast. We do so profitably, and we can do that in the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15650 On March 3rd, the residents of Port Moody will head to City Hall to learn about their upcoming rapid transit project. They won't hear about it on the FM dial in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15651 Commissioners, today you can change that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15652 We welcome your examination of our application for CKPM‑FM Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15653 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. McBride and your team.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15654 I will start with the questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15655 Probably the easiest one to start with is the one that, I am sure, you will have anticipated from the days of hearing, and it concerns your format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15656 Your format sounds, actually, exactly like Mr. McLaughlin and Mr. Badh's proposed station, "The Planet", with the world beat and the jazz and all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15657 Could you explain what would be the difference?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15658 MR. McBRIDE: Lucky guess on their part.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15659 We went ahead and we developed a format that we felt, first of all, was unavailable in this market, and we wanted to get something that was going to stand out in the crowd for Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15660 Port Moody does have access to many of the Vancouver signals, quite clearly in some cases.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15661 We literally walked around and listened to what people were listening to in their shops and restaurants and businesses, and then we talked to them and we asked them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15662 We went without a perceived notion of what format we were going to introduce into Port Moody, because our intent, really, is a community radio station first, providing the services. The format would be complementary to the delivery of services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15663 Throughout all of our research, we came up with a "Triple A" type of format, although I don't like that phrase, because it doesn't necessarily sum up what we perceive in our minds, but we have to peg it into something.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15664 THE CHAIRPERSON: But how would the two stations sound different, or would they sound ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15665 In terms of the music, they will sound the same?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15666 MR. McBRIDE: Going over the application by McLaughlin, to me, it looks like they are going to be much more focused on sort of an urban style, with a more worldly type of flavour, and less on the jazz side, from what I can interpret.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15667 They are looking at, also, what I believe is a softer sound than we are looking at. We are looking at, sort of, a much more today‑type of sound, with less reliance on a gold library.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15668 We are looking in Port Moody at something that, let's say, has a bit more of an edge to it, is a bit more contemporary, which certainly has a higher level of local and developing artists on a regular basis, and more of the jazzier side of it, as opposed to the world beat side.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15669 There are some textual differences there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15670 They won't be talking about the rapid transit project, either.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15671 THE CHAIRPERSON: How would you describe the difference in the sound between, say, your station and Harvard's JANE‑FM?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15672 MR. McBRIDE: Oh, that would be night and day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15673 JANE‑FM is targeting the disgruntled female, and we are not. Our total target orientation is, first of all, skewed to a much younger audience. If you will note, we are looking at an audience target that is almost ten years younger than JANE‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15674 We aren't targeting females exclusively, so there is going to be a male component, which is all theoretical anyway. But it is going to have a much broader appeal to both male and female listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15675 Again, edgier ‑‑ lumpier, if you like that phrase ‑‑ and with a bit more bite to it. We are not going to be lulling anybody into complacency with this radio station by patting them on the head and saying "There, there."
LISTNUM 1 \l 15676 THE CHAIRPERSON: What about Pattison's "Triple A"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15677 What would be the difference?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15678 MR. McBRIDE: I am going to keep the same case.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15679 As I mentioned, Commissioner, we filed this a month before they did. I think they are copying us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15680 THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no, I am not talking about who is copying whom; I just want to know how it would sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15681 What would be the difference in the sound?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15682 At this stage I am not talking about who is copying whom.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15683 MR. McBRIDE: Pattison is proposing something, again, that is significantly older in its target demographic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15684 They are all looking at people in their forties, and they are going to be aging their radio station probably on a continuation. I can't guess what they will do in the future, but it will probably be a continuation of the experience they have learned from running AM 600, which has more of an adult standards feel to it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15685 So, again, their sounds are likely to be smoother, softer, and less sort of in your face than the radio station we are proposing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15686 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. When I first came to Canada I lived in Port Moody, off Evergreen Drive. I actually spent two years there. Port Moody is quite small.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15687 When I look at your application, you use Port Moody sometimes, and tricities. Are you a Port Moody station or a tricities station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15688 MR. McBRIDE: The station is based in Port Moody. That is where the signal will originate from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15689 The signal itself will trickle into Port Coquitlam and carry, according to our coverage maps, as far as the Wild Duck Inn, out along the Pitt River.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15690 That's what the footprint of the radio station is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15691 In order to develop an image for the radio station ‑‑ and I wanted to peg it against something that I could really bite into, and that is the Port Moody "City of the Arts" image. Out of the tricities, Port Moody has the most clearly defined local "zeitgeist", if you will, so it was easier to build a radio station with that focal point in mind.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15692 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am sure we can all name radio stations that, if I didn't read the decision, I wouldn't know what city they were supposed to serve or they were licensed for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15693 What is to stop you from reorienting the station toward something other than Port Moody once you are on air?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15694 MR. McBRIDE: Do you mean, for instance, targeting Vancouver?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15695 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15696 MR. McBRIDE: The signal doesn't reach Vancouver. It stops at Burnaby Mountain.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15697 It actually goes east. There is no appreciable coverage at all within the City of Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15698 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have quite a good description of the programs. When someone tunes to your station, how do they know right away, "I am listening to the Port Moody station"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15699 MR. McBRIDE: The branding, for one, will certainly be reflective of the Port Moody area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15700 The other is the content. I don't have any interest in competing in the Vancouver market right now, because it doesn't meet the model that I have already developed in the communities I currently serve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15701 From that experience, I know how to zero‑in on a specific community, and there is no shortage of content in the Port Moody area to fulfil our content requirements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15702 There need not be a downtown Vancouver or a Granville in our Port Moody radio station, and I don't intend it. If you do look at it, it is a small station in a very large community, a regional community. The only way we are going to be able to attract and maintain an advertising base is if we make sure the advertisers hear their interests, as well, reflected on the radio on a constant basis.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15703 From a business point of view, if we signed on a Port Moody radio station that didn't carry into Vancouver, and behaved as though we were serving Vancouver, we would be bankrupt in no time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15704 It doesn't make business sense not to sell sandwiches in the community we are in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15705 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am trying to find a page in your application which I found quite helpful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15706 There is no page number, but it is section 4.2, "Sample Music Hour".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15707 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15708 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have four songs, and then station information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15709 Can you give me an example of what the station information will be?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15710 Will it be just station ID?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15711 MR. McBRIDE: That phrase includes all of the vocal content that is going to be fit into that particular segment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15712 Obviously we are going to ID the radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15713 There is usually a positioning line of some kind, "Golden Spike Radio", or whatever the eventual name of the radio station will be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15714 When I say station information, there will always be some structured element, whether it is some type of information, such as, in this case, weather or surveillance, which meets the needs of the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15715 It is not just going to be the station ID followed by commercials, because that doesn't really make a radio station, that makes an automated radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15716 Station information will be whatever the moment calls for ‑‑ traffic, weather, arts, DJ ad lib in that case.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15717 THE CHAIRPERSON: In your presentation you talked about your research approach. I understand the part about business research. Then, when you were doing the audience approach, you talked about using a qualitative approach.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15718 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15719 THE CHAIRPERSON: Could you give us an example of what is a qualitative approach?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15720 MR. McBRIDE: I can.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15721 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15722 MR. McBRIDE: The problem with contemporary research ‑‑ when organizations contract research companies to go out, they have to use pre‑loaded questions in order to get a valid response.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15723 Somebody phones you and, let's say, we are researching a radio station that targets a 40‑year‑old disgruntled female, for example. What they will do is contract a service agency and say: Find that individual, and find something they like.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15724 A researcher, in order to get some response, has to say, "Would you listen to a radio station that played Phil Collins, Dr. Drey, or Chopin," for example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15725 In other words, there would be that sort of structured question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15726 The qualitative approach doesn't have that same sort of prompt, of structure; it is inquisitive in nature. We say, "What do you like? What are you listening to? Of your preferences, which way do you go?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 15727 So it takes a little time, and it can only be done in either an individual or a focus group type of environment, and that's the way we approached it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15728 The traditional research method reveals raw data that scientists can crunch, but all it ever produces is Phil Collins. It doesn't produce Feist or any of those other artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15729 So a qualitative approach is much more about what the person is actually involved in than a prompted response.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15730 THE CHAIRPERSON: Going back to your format ‑‑ and I know there was a round of deficiency responses on Canadian content, that portion ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15731 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15732 THE CHAIRPERSON: Again, here you are talking about the jazz sub‑category, aren't you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15733 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15734 THE CHAIRPERSON: Jazz and blues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15735 In the jazz and blues sub‑category ‑‑ and, counsel, please correct me if I am wrong ‑‑ the required minimum content is that 20 percent of the jazz and blues to be played must be Canadian.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15736 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15737 THE CHAIRPERSON: Here you are proposing 12.5 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15738 MR. McBRIDE: No, I'm not.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15739 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15740 MR. McBRIDE: The 12.5 percent is the total amount of jazz and blues in total that we are proposing for the radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15741 Canadian content ‑‑ you are talking about extensive administration for a small operation. We are just going to play 35 percent Canadian content in all categories.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15742 It is much easier that way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15743 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What percent of the music that you play will be Category 3 music?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15744 MR. McBRIDE: We are anticipating 25 percent Category 3, and half of that will be defined, by CRTC terms, as jazz.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15745 And the other 12.5 percent will be defined as world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15746 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I see where I misread. Of the jazz and the world beat that you play, it is 12.5, it is not 12.5 Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15747 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, that's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15748 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will go more into the specifics of the application now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15749 Spoken word ‑‑ can you confirm the number of hours of total spoken word, including structured and unstructured, please?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15750 MR. McBRIDE: In the opening remarks I indicated that the structured spoken word programming will be 872 minutes, in total, including all of our news, weather and sports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15751 In addition to that we used a rule of thumb in order to determine how much unstructured stuff ‑‑ which is the DJ ad lib and the DJ patter. I always forecast 5 minutes an hour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15752 Because with all of the other content, now you are up at 9, 10, 11 minutes of DJs, and that's a great ratio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15753 So I would estimate 5 minutes per hour. For planning purposes, that is 630 minutes per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15754 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I am trying to get to the appendix of your spoken word.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15755 Is it 8(c) or ‑‑
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15756 THE CHAIRPERSON: What proportion of your spoken word will be newscasts?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15757 MR. McBRIDE: That will be 198 minutes per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15758 THE CHAIRPERSON: Of that, what would be pure news and what would be spoken word "Other"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15759 MR. McBRIDE: That refers exclusively to the news content only.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15760 THE CHAIRPERSON: I see that you have not opted to do an afternoon drive news as a newscast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15761 MR. McBRIDE: That's right. What we intend to do there is cover ‑‑ the traffic and the weather surveillance is ‑‑ since you are a Port Moody former resident, you know that is pretty much all there is to focus in on out there, and the information of the day, at that time ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15762 First of all, we are not going to compete as a hard news station. We want the information arising from the DJ contribution and ad libs to be much more socially and culturally focused ‑‑ What is happening today; what is happening tonight; what is happening tomorrow ‑‑ which could not be quantified as actual news. So, therefore, it doesn't exist there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15763 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. During the afternoon drive, would your schedule of the frequency of the surveillance information and the station information just be more frequent, between songs, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15764 MR. McBRIDE: During the drive periods ‑‑ the peak periods ‑‑ I am anticipating five breaks per hour, where additional content in addition to music would be provided, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15765 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you clarify the total time that you are devoting to the "Port Moody Talks" program?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15766 MR. McBRIDE: It says in my submission 30 minutes per day, five days per week. And then, in my presentation here, I said 25 minutes. That is because I withdrew 5 minutes for possible commercials during that timeframe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15767 So it should be 25 minutes net of commercials, or 125 minutes per week for "Port Moody Talks".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15768 THE CHAIRPERSON: On your CCD initiatives, I see from your application that you are going to earmark them for District 43 schools.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15769 MR. McBRIDE: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15770 THE CHAIRPERSON: Between the time you filed the application and now, have you spoken to or approached any of the schools?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15771 MR. McBRIDE: I have verified, through the District itself, their donation policy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15772 They have a fairly structured and disciplined donation policy regarding cash contributions to the school, because they don't like to have money floating around involuntarily.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15773 So the protocol I have established with the District is on how they would receive the money, and how it can be directed to approved CCD development initiatives, but it does have to go through the District.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15774 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think that's where the clarification is required.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15775 I know that in your reply you sent us to the link of the policy, and I can appreciate, perhaps, the rigidity of some of their policies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15776 How would you be able to ensure that the District or the schools that receive the funds will direct them to the initiatives, or that they will be spent according to the CCD requirements of the Commercial Radio Policy?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15777 MR. McBRIDE: I would obtain from the School District a letter to file with the Commission in support of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15778 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, good.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15779 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, in the qualitative research that you did, did you draw any conclusions on whether any particular segment of your target audience is more or less served by the existing stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15780 MR. McBRIDE: No, because that wasn't really the direction that we found ourselves going into. We kind of ‑‑ as you know, we showed up in Port Moody and started talking to people with a crazy idea. And we weren't really looking for dissatisfaction. That wasn't our direction.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15781 THE CHAIRPERSON: M'hm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15782 MR. McBRIDE: What we were really looking for was ‑‑ we have some experience in doing small town radio. Is there a small town that we could do more of it in?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15783 And so that's the way our research was approached, not from a dissatisfaction point of view but what would either improved satisfaction ‑‑ or how could we introduce a new product to the market rather than enhancing or replacing an existing one. So no, we really didn't find out where we ‑‑ you know, who was lacking in service in that area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15784 THE CHAIRPERSON: You talk about the experience you have had in Tofino and Ucluelet. I take it from your comments today that those stations are doing well and are profitable?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15785 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, they are. Ucluelet signed on September 1st last year in a profitable status and has never lost money. It's been profitable from day one. We were sold out from November to February of last year at nine minutes an hour from 6 a.m. until 10 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15786 You don't know until you get there how much people love their local radio, in a way that you can't love a radio station in Vancouver because there is too many choices.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15787 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry. No, go ahead, you finish.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15788 MR. McBRIDE: Well, Commissioner, I mean I can ramble on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15789 THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no. No, go ahead. I do want to listen to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15790 MR. McBRIDE: And I will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15791 They don't have a local radio station in these markets. They do have repeaters and a number of pirate signals that are out there from all of the Vancouver stations, five or six of them out there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15792 But the local radio station talks about the rain, which is really big out there. We do surf reports every single hour of the day seven days a week; tide, row reports and marine weather every single hour of the day because that information is so vital. What they like is the service, not necessarily the music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15793 Our music it's like a salad. You know, whatever happens to be the flavour of the day that fits works out there. The local artist ‑‑ and there is many ‑‑ releases a new album and they just show up and begin playing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15794 So it's the interaction between the community that makes the small markets fun to be on, but that actually translates into revenue because the businesses recognize that through their support of the radio station they keep it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15795 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will come back to this, but right now just a short answer on Tofino. How long has that been on the air?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15796 MR. McBRIDE: It signed on in 2005.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15797 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15798 MR. McBRIDE: October 2005.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15799 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And it is enjoying the same success as Ucluelet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15800 MR. McBRIDE: Somewhat less.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15801 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15802 MR. McBRIDE: Tofino did replace an existing radio station that collapsed for non‑financial reasons prior to that, CHOO‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15803 THE CHAIRPERSON: But does ‑‑ Tofino would receive your Ucluelet station signal, wouldn't it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15804 MR. McBRIDE: Through the miracle of technology both signals meet in the middle of Long Beach so you can't hear one in the other market. It's amazing how that happened.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 15805 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. How many other stations serve Ucluelet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15806 MR. McBRIDE: CRTC‑approved stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15807 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and then you can also tell me about the non‑approved stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15808 MR. McBRIDE: I think there is one licensed repeater in Tofino. There is none that I know of in Ucluelet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15809 There are ‑‑ hobbyists pickup signals and have repeated them in the market because they have never had the radio service. There is two additional, as far as I know, unregulated signals in Ucluelet and an additional one in Tofino that tends to come on and go off the air depending on how we are performing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15810 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So Tofino has, just summarize ‑‑ has one other authorized signal. Is that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15811 MR. McBRIDE: I am not sure it's authorized, Commissioner. I don't want to get into trouble.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15812 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, okay. So Tofino has one other signal? Can I ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15813 MR. McBRIDE: Two.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15814 THE CHAIRPERSON: Two other signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15815 MR. McBRIDE: One I think is authorized, Jack‑FM, and CFMI a repeater in that market. And Jack‑FM and CFMI and JR Country are repeated in Ucluelet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15816 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And again those are the authorized signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15817 MR. McBRIDE: I have no idea.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15818 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So in Tofino you can also hear Jack‑FM?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15819 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15820 THE CHAIRPERSON: JR Country and, I am sorry, you just mentioned?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15821 MR. McBRIDE: Jack‑FM and CFMI in Tofino.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15822 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15823 MR. McBRIDE: In Tofino, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15824 THE CHAIRPERSON: On 101.1, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15825 What about Ucluelet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15826 MR. McBRIDE: Jack‑FM, CFMI and JR‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15827 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15828 MR. McBRIDE: And we beat them all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15829 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what were you going to say?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15830 MR. McBRIDE: I say we beat them all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15831 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15832 You don't know at this point whether they are authorized but it sounds like they are not that reliable signals?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15833 MR. McBRIDE: They are great signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15834 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15835 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, they are full power.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15836 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So what were you referring to that there was a signal that came in and out? What signal were you referring to then?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15837 MR. McBRIDE: Oh, in Tofino ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15838 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15839 MR. McBRIDE: ‑‑ whoever is running that particular signal for CFMI if they like us and we are playing the music they like they turn CFMI off.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15840 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15841 MR. McBRIDE: It's an unusual place out there, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15842 THE CHAIRPERSON: What do you see are the differences, the main differences between how you have to do business in Tofino and Ucluelet and how you are going to have to do business here in Port Moody?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15843 MR. McBRIDE: Well, first of all, there is a much better critical mass in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15844 THE CHAIRPERSON: M'hm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15845 MR. McBRIDE: There is simply a lot more businesses in a similarly dense environment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15846 The Port Moody in the trading area out there is not particularly exploded or hard to reach. And that's the same in any small town. You have generally one or two downtown or commercial centres and peripheral industry on the outlying areas.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15847 And the reason Port Moody stands out is because of that. It's got a geography that really is clearly identifiable. You can look on a map and say, "I am in Port Moody", a great place to start. It has two identifiable commercial districts along St. John's and in the new Newport Village development areas with significant clusters of commercial activity. And so it has a critical mass and I think it will be easier.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15848 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What do you see are the challenges?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15849 MR. McBRIDE: Comparison to other radio stations and the perception that we might not be ‑‑ we might not be a big city. That's always a risk when you run a local radio station, is that there will be a desire for some people to want to be something other than local, see themselves as bigger than their community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15850 THE CHAIRPERSON: But I think that one of the challenges that are immediately apparent is that competition will be a lot stiffer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15851 MR. McBRIDE: I doubt that, Commissioner. The competition out there isn't for radio. There is nobody in Vancouver selling $20 or $30 spots out there, you know. And unless anyone is listening right now that's going to go out and drink my milkshake, I think we are pretty safe with our rate card.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15852 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15853 THE CHAIRPERSON: I just want to turn to your programming expenses.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15854 I think of your expenses, of your total expenses. What proportion is payroll and benefits?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15855 MR. McBRIDE: You are referring to the seven‑year forecast, Commissioner?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15856 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15857 MR. McBRIDE: Then I will look at the same document.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15858 MR. McBRIDE: It is going to be fairly high given the payroll requirements versus the anticipated revenue and in the neighbourhood of 50 or 60 percent initially. That figure will decline as revenue builds, but the payroll expense will be quite high. In order to staff it at a competitive level we have to ‑‑ we have to eat profit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15859 THE CHAIRPERSON: And how many ‑‑ did you say six and a half staff?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15860 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, we are going to start out looking at about six and a half people on the operation. Because we already have existing business infrastructure we can provide backend services; accounting, financial services, so that we don't have to reduplicate them in any given location.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15861 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And this will be 6.5 new positions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15862 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15863 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15864 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15865 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what would the ‑‑ what are the 6.5? What are those positions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15866 MR. McBRIDE: I have a station manager.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15867 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15868 MR. McBRIDE: A position that will involve in a station of this size, of course, some programming duties; a salesperson, a newsperson, two to three programming hosts who have other additional duties like programming and a creative and a production individual. And there is also an allocation for some relief work based on the requirements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15869 It would be virtually all in programming and sales.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15870 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15871 MR. McBRIDE: So that's where ‑‑ one specific sales representative.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15872 THE CHAIRPERSON: Then looking at again your financial projections, the line on programming that does not include any of the salary and benefits, expenses that you referred to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15873 MR. McBRIDE: No, I take out all of those in building these plans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15874 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15875 MR. McBRIDE: And I put ‑‑ all of the payroll falls under its own category. So what you are seeing there is purely the departmental budgets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15876 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15877 And you are projecting an audience share of 1 percent for year one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15878 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15879 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And you are quite confident that you will ‑‑ you can achieve that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15880 MR. McBRIDE: Absolutely. That's a very modest figure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15881 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, compared to the rest of Canada and B.C., Vancouver stations seem to have to spend a bit more than the rest for programming expenses. Your programming expenses and general expenses are quite low.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15882 So we may be covering the ground again but this reflects our concern on your ability to compete with all of the other signals that will be coming into the market that you want to serve. Can you comment on that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15883 MR. McBRIDE: Where other stations are going to invest in a number of different programming items; imported feature programming, production services, et cetera, this is why our payroll is comparatively higher according to our overall budget. We are just going to use people on the radio, on the air as much as possible to create that relationship.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15884 You know, you can go the bells and gong route but that's not our intent nor do we make any representation that we are going to compete with the Vancouver radio station. We are going to carve out a niche there and fill a local marketing opportunity that we perceive with human beings talking about Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15885 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And your projected PBIT profit which is relatively optimistic is based on what you have been talking about on the research and the business guarantee that you have already conducted?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15886 MR. McBRIDE: A combination. I mean the research ‑‑ I would say that our financial forecasts are actually modest for what we had discovered in the research. I prefer to be modest in that area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15887 My experiences already in some of the smallest markets in this country indicate that you can anticipate a higher return if the product is delivered effectively.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15888 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15889 I was interested when you talked about the voice tracked ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15890 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15891 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15892 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15893 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you elaborate on that, please?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15894 MR. McBRIDE: Of course I can.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15895 Everybody voice tracks here and all across the country we voice track. And what it has become is a way of cost control exercise for one or, in some cases, an ability to distribute one voice over wide areas and multiple stations at the same time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15896 But voice tracking should really be a way for a programmer or a station operator to get the possible announcer on the air. We are not dealing and we won't be dealing with the highest and the best paid broadcasters in the business. We will be dealing with some young people, likely straight out of BCIT or shortly thereafter, who show capacity or ability. And by using a voice tracked environment we can actually use that to get them better and to improve our product to a point where it is more palatable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15897 So the use of voice tracking can either be as a cost control device or as a quality control device and a developmental tool. And that's the way I choose to see voice tracking.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15898 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What would be the typical ‑‑ the content of your voice tracked programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15899 MR. McBRIDE: It wouldn't sound any different from a live program. That's the whole point, is that the evening program does not all of a sudden become paced.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15900 THE CHAIRPERSON: M'hm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15901 MR. McBRIDE: You know? We continue on. The voice tracker will be required to deliver the same content and participate as a full member of the operation. It's just that, given the skill level that we are anticipating right now, that it would be more effective for them to use the voice tracking technique to perfect their craft.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15902 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15903 MR. McBRIDE: It also, Commissioner, gives them a chance to hear themselves on the radio, which is very difficult for developing broadcasters to do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15904 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, are you ‑‑ are you planning for any syndicated programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15905 MR. McBRIDE: That would be counter to our philosophy of a local radio station, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15906 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you anticipate any synergies with Tofino and Ucluelet apart from what you had already mentioned, some backroom accounting and such administrative costs?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15907 MR. McBRIDE: No. Again, even in Tofino and Ucluelet, which are only 40 kilometres away from each other, we do not share any services because it defeats the whole point of having a local radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15908 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15909 Why do you think this is the best use of the 98.7 frequency?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15910 MR. McBRIDE: From a technical point of view it works extremely well in that particular area. It delivers a very crisp, clean, well‑defined signal that doesn't encroach on the Vancouver market so we can leave that market to the heavier players who are here today. It does something a little different with the radio business in general.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15911 We are looking at taking a community and serving one community with one radio station. That model originally was used to develop most of the radio markets in Canada and our experience in operating these very small community‑focused radio stations has been extremely positive and it's time for us, our operations group here to roll that idea out into slightly larger communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15912 So we are going from, you know, Tofino and Ucluelet let's say both total footprints 4,000 to something that is less than 10 times that large with essentially the same principle. Can we do local, tightly‑focused, highly customer and listener‑oriented community radio?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15913 And now we would like to do it in the context of a larger market because I think it will work quite well and provide an exciting alternative without damaging or taking away from any other of the very successful broadcasters in the market today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15914 THE CHAIRPERSON: I believe Commissioner Duncan has some questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15915 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: I do have some questions, mostly because I'm from the other end of the country and I am not familiar with the area. So if you wouldn't mind helping me out?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15916 So did I understand you to just say that Ucluelet and Tofino have a population of 4,000 combined?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15917 MR. McBRIDE: No, 8,000 combined. Between 8 and 10 is the estimate for the entire coverage region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15918 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And is Pemberton in that, included in that or is it different again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15919 MR. McBRIDE: No, Pemberton is north of Whistler.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15920 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And what would your population be there that you are serving?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15921 MR. McBRIDE: The total audience coverage up there is 6,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15922 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And I notice in your application that your forecasted numbers are something ‑‑ or your market area served I think is around 30,000, just under 30,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15923 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15924 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: But when I look at the map and I see that in the 3 millivolts is Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15925 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15926 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: So is that in your numbers? Are those in your numbers?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15927 MR. McBRIDE: No, they are not. We are targeting the city of Port Moody with our application and so we are using only the Port Moody figures, household figures and audience figures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15928 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Okay. So will your signal spill over into Port Coquitlam?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15929 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, it will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15930 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And are there radio stations in those two communities?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15931 MR. McBRIDE: No, there aren't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15932 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: There aren't either. Okay, all right. I am just trying to get an idea.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15933 And so what ‑‑ I would think you would get some spin‑off benefit there even though I know you are telling ‑‑ it's a local station but what would be the population of those communities?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15934 MR. McBRIDE: The Tri‑Cities area is the figure that we know and it's 207,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15935 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And there is no radio stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15936 MR. McBRIDE: Not yet.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 15937 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: How many thousand again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15938 MR. McBRIDE: 207,000, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15939 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Okay, I won't ask that question again. Okay, all right. Thank you, all right, just trying to understand that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15940 And so the Vancouver stations because of the topography are those signals received in Port Moody then?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15941 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, they are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15942 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: They are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15943 So your ‑‑ I know your audience projections are a percentage of the total Vancouver market. So I guess really I am just relying on your income projections and you are showing, as the Chair pointed out, a positive cash flow in year one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15944 MR. McBRIDE: We have done that everywhere else we have been, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15945 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes, that's good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15946 Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15947 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Cugini, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15948 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15949 Just a couple of follow‑up questions; 207 residents in the Tri‑City area, that's your full coverage area?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15950 MR. McBRIDE: 207,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15951 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: 207,000, right. And your core audience is 25 to 44. What is the median age of your listener?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15952 MR. McBRIDE: 34.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15953 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: 34.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15954 MR. McBRIDE: Is sort of where we settled on as the building point for our target.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15955 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And you are not skewing male or female? You think pretty much it is going to be even between the two?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15956 MR. McBRIDE: Our indications are that this format properly presented appeals to both genders equally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15957 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay. And in terms of the format you just confirmed that the Vancouver radio signals are received in this Tri‑City area. Are all of them received?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15958 MR. McBRIDE: In varying degrees of quality. There is Burnaby Mountain which gets in the way and can impair certain signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15959 So they are all receivable out there, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15960 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And I heard you say earlier that you are going to carve out a niche and I understand that it's going to be primarily with your spoken word programming because it will be community‑based and it will be local.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15961 Because when I look at your sample playlist; Killers, Amy Winehouse, Snow Patrol, Blue October, I am going to hear those on Hot AC stations, for example, that are coming from Vancouver in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15962 MR. McBRIDE: I would disagree with that, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15963 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay, well, maybe I hear them on Toronto Hot AC stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15964 MR. McBRIDE: Their signals don't carry to Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15965 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That would be more likely the case.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15966 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15967 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I am sorry, can you repeat that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15968 MS COPELAND: Yes, you would probably hear them in Toronto. But I think Matthew is still whining that he never hears his favourite gal, Amy Winehouse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15969 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay. So your contention is that perhaps hot AC stations are in fact in this area programmed differently than they would be in other parts of the country?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15970 MS COPELAND: I think so, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15971 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay. So it's not just going to be simply on your local programming that you will carve out the niche. It will be as well with the music that you will be providing?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15972 MR. McBRIDE: Our intent in selecting this musical direction was to provide new music. And that music is, in our opinion ‑‑ we all live here. We all listen to the radio ‑‑ is that it's not being heard. I'm certain it is played in this market but I haven't heard an Amy Winehouse record, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15973 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And I agree with you. I just hope she gets her act together so she can continue providing the talent, but she is amazing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15974 MR. McBRIDE: Before she drinks herself to death, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15975 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And the other thing I wanted to say, Ms ‑‑ Doreen. I am just going to call you Doreen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15976 MS COPELAND: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15977 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I agree with you on Falling Slowly and most important and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15978 MS COPELAND: Did you see the movie?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15979 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I haven't but I loved their acceptance speech.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15980 MS COPELAND: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15981 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That's all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15982 Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15983 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15984 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Sorry, just a quick question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15985 In terms of establishing your identity as a local station, Tofino you mentioned doing the hourly surf report, rain; expected tides; the fishing report, et cetera. That is obviously very well suited to those communities. What would be the equivalent that would be well suited in the Port Moody/Port Coquitlam area?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15986 MR. McBRIDE: Tide reports, fishing reports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15987 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Fishing, no surf though?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15988 MR. McBRIDE: You can't get a big wave out there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15989 The recreational aspects of that area ‑‑ it's at the head of Burrard Inlet and Reed Point Marina is there. It is one of the largest marinas in the region. Fishing and tide reports are absolutely critical out there. The region has a significant recreational network in terms of cycling pathways and outdoor activities and those types of things will take prominence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15990 Weather means everything out here and the weather in Surrey is not the weather in Port Moody so those, again, distinguish the local area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15991 But in addition to that the relation is going to be with the community activities which, when you visit Port Moody, you discover it really does have its own mindset and its own place and it's an excellent hook to hang a local radio station on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15992 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15993 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Williams, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15994 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good morning, Mr. McBride, panellists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15995 MR. McBRIDE: Good morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15996 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In talking about the other radio stations that you own in Ucluelet, Tofino and Pemberton you say your dedication to community service is simple, 100 percent local content and you use uber‑service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15997 MR. McBRIDE: Uber‑service, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15998 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you regularly host live performances there and deliver a high level of local emerging artist exposure and it's staffed entirely by locals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15999 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16000 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You find them, you train them and you let them reflect their talents and villages. And the you describe some of the characters that you have developed ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16001 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16002 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: ‑‑ Chainsaw Pete and Jim the Naked Oyster Farmer and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16003 MR. McBRIDE: He is a real person, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16004 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so these are real people?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16005 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, sir.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16006 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so they decide their own content? They just come forward with a show and you play them to reflect the community or do you help ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16007 MR. McBRIDE: You don't do that with Jim or Chainsaw.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16008 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16009 MR. McBRIDE: I mean we have to control them and, you know, they are guests on our morning and our afternoon shows and they provide regular contributions ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16010 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I see, so there is an announcer interacting with them that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16011