TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

             THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

               TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

 

 

 

 

             TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT

              LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

           ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

 

 

                      SUBJECT / SUJET:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Various broadcasting applications /

Diverses demandes de radiodiffusion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HELD AT:                              TENUE À:

 

Conference Centre                     Centre de conférence

Outaouais Room                        Salle Outaouais

140 Promenade du Portage              140, Promenade du Portage

Gatineau, Quebec                      Gatineau (Québec)

 

May 14, 2008                          Le 14 mai 2008

 

 

 

 

 

Transcripts

 

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

 

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

 

 

 

 

Transcription

 

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

 

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

               Canadian Radio‑television and

               Telecommunications Commission

 

            Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

               télécommunications canadiennes

 

 

                 Transcript / Transcription

 

 

 

 

 

Various broadcasting applications /

Diverses demandes de radiodiffusion

 

 

 

 

 

 

BEFORE / DEVANT:

 

Michel Arpin                      Chairperson / Président

Len Katz                          Commissioner / Conseiller

Michel Morin                      Commissioner / Conseiller

 

 

 

 

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

 

Jade Roy                          Secretary / Sécretaire

Francine Laurier-Guy              Hearing Manager /

                                  Gérante de l'audience

Jean-Sébastien Gagnon             Legal Counsel

                                  Conseiller Juridique

 

 

 

 

HELD AT:                          TENUE À:

 

Conference Centre                 Centre de conférences

Outaouais Room                    Salle Outaouais

140 Promenade du Portage          140, Promenade du Portage

Gatineau, Quebec                  Gatineau (Québec)

 

May 14, 2008                      Le 14 mai 2008

 

- iv -

 

           TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS

 

 

                                                 PAGE / PARA

 

PHASE I (Cont'd)

 

 

PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:

 

Christian Hit Radio Inc.                          257 / 1405

 

Ottawa Media Inc.                                 304 / 1720

 

Astral Media Radio inc.                           361 / 2035

 

Frank Torres (SDEC)                               407 / 2306

 

Mark Steven Maheu (SDEC)                          466 / 2645

 

RNC Média inc.                                    518 / 2945

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- v -

 

                      ERRATA / ADDENDA

 

 

 

 

May 13, 2008

 

 

Page i (cover page) should read:

 

 

"HELD AT:                             TENUE À:

 

 Conference Centre                    Centre de conférence

 Outaouais Room                       Salle Outaouais

 140 Promenade du Portage             140, Promenade du Portage

 Gatineau, Quebec                     Gatineau (Québec)"

                 Gatineau, Quebec / Gatineau (Québec)

‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Wednesday, May 14, 2008

    at 0904 / L'audience débute le mercredi 14 mai 2008

    à 0904

1398             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning.

1399             Welcome to the second day of our public hearing.  I will ask now the Hearing Secretary to make the introductory remarks.

1400             Thank you.

1401             LA SECRÉTAIRE:  Merci, Monsieur le Président.

1402             We will start this morning with Item 6, which is an application by Christian Hit Radio Inc. for a licence to operate an English language FM commercial specialty religious radio programming undertaking in Ottawa.

1403             Appearing for the Applicant is Mr. Turcotte.

1404             Please introduce your colleagues and you will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

1405             MR. TURCOTTE:  Thank you very much.

1406             First of all, Mr. Chair and members of the Commission and staff, delighted to be here again.

1407             We've applied, as just was stated, for a licence for a religious FM station to serve Ottawa at the drop‑in frequency at 99.7.  The callsign of CFMO‑FM and a tag of Word FM.

1408             We're going to have a panel here, others will be joining us, they're not all here yet, Mr. Chair, but those that are here I will introduce and make some words.

1409             Fay Chao is a past board member of CHRI and a member of the Chinese community.

1410             Bill Collins, my ex‑partner actually, is a market research consultant.

1411             Bob Du Broy sitting beside me who is on the ‑‑ a director of CHRI.

1412             Rabbi Arnold Fine who hasn't yet joined us who is Rabbi Emeritus of Congregation Agudath Israel.  He's also founding chairman of the Christian‑Jewish‑Muslim Trialogue and is a patron of the Multi‑Faith Housing Initiative.

1413             David Gallucci, just the other side of Bill, one of Ottawa's prominent media sales specialists.  He can answer any questions on ad sales and stuff of that nature after our presentations.

1414             Deborah Gyapong is a seasoned journalist and former television producer, not yet here and will hopefully join us shortly.

1415             Henri Lemay a Catholic lay evangelist and television producer, also not here, he was here yesterday.

1416             At the far end of the table we have Reverend George Desjardins who is a ministry leader, teacher and author.  George was also a past board member of CHRI.

1417             David MacDonald is a Christian recording artist, a radio producer and a specialist in resource access for the disabled.

1418             We have a proposal in front of you that is proposing which we believe is an excellent viable format for which there is a proven demand.

1419             That Word FM would add significant diversity to programming content and news voices in this market is an assertion we make.

1420             That Word FM will not draw revenue away from existing stations we totally believe.

1421             You already know that Ottawa is a robust and growing ad revenue market for radio and meeting these criteria of viability, diversity and not harming existing stations meets your licensing criteria.

1422             We did appear before this body four years ago and, although this application is similar, there are some differences and one is that people like myself are older, some of you may notice that.

1423             So, the whole population is aging, as you know, from your demographics.  We believe that builds the case for Word FM.

1424             We've submitted a new technical brief and programming requirements and we encourage you to read the transcripts from the December meeting when our initial application was heard.

1425             That application received almost twice as many original letters, 565, as any of the applicants did.

1426             There are a number of appendices we put on this one.  They are a recasting, in fact, of information previously input to the Commission and the purpose of recasting is to hopefully make it easier to understand what we're saying.

1427             Appendix 1, we provided quotes of the seven presentations of the interveners on the programming desires they expressed at that hearing.

1428             Two questions were raised in 2004 that we'll address more thoroughly today.

1429             First, how are we going to promote balanced programming to the target audience?  Secondly, how would we ensure compliance with CRTC's open‑line policy?  This will be covered, as I say, later.

1430             Our existing contemporary Christian music station in Ottawa, CHRI, has established Christian Hit Radio as a responsible, successful broadcaster in our 11 years on the air.

1431             We're the only locally owned and operated commercial station in Ottawa.  We are present at many, many community events.  We provide a showcase for Canadian musicians of Canada and Ottawa on the air and on stage by sponsoring over 100 concerts and 300 international festivals.

1432             We partner with local and national charities like Ottawa Intercity's Ministries and Compassion Canada to help the poorest of the poor.

1433             We run about 80 free public service announcements for charities at any given time.

1434             CHRI‑FM has become a wholesome radio option for young families.  CHRI‑FM is great at reaching young adults with contemporary music.

1435             But there's another half of the faith community which I represent, that other half that wants to hear more traditional content, spoken word religious programming, spiritual music, current affairs programming.

1436             This is currently not offered by radio in Ottawa, but tens of thousands of more mature people like myself want to hear it.

1437             Christian Hit Radio Inc. knows this market and we're ready to deliver the programming that these people want.

1438             Toronto, Montreal, Kingston and  Vancouver now get this kind of programming from U.S. stations.  You'll see this in Appendix 2 which hopefully, as I say, is recast to make it readily understandable.

1439             Appendix 3 and 4 show that U.S. cities the size of Ottawa, half a million to 1.3‑million are typically served by four plus Christian radio stations, each usually serving a different age segment.

1440             Fifteen of those 24 cities are outside what's commonly called the Bible belt and even those 15 average more than four.

1441             In addition to the five cities served by both American and Canadian Christian stations in Appendix 2, there are four cities listed in Appendix 5 that are served by two Canadian Christian stations each.

1442             Touch Canada reports that each of its two Calgary radio stations has a weekly cumulative audience of 60,000.  We're here hoping that Ottawa will be added to that list and be the next one with two Christian radio stations.

1443             I'll now turn the microphone over to Bob Du Broy to tell us more about the format and the market.

1444             Bob.

1445             MR. DU BROY:  The U.S. experience is an indicator of the success that Word FM will have in future if licensed.

1446             The first thing that jumps up from Appendix 6 is that the U.S. has about 7.4 Christian stations per million people, if you consider the U.S. population is about 300‑million people, while Canada has 1.2 at a Canadian population of 31‑million, and Australia with its 68 Christian stations has twice our number of Christian stations per capita.

1447             So, we have some catching up to do it seems if we want to come up to a world standard.

1448             The next striking thing is that only about a quarter of the 39 Canadian stations have teaching and traditional music formats similar to what we're proposing for Word FM.

1449             In contrast, three quarters of the U.S. stations have teaching and traditional music formats such as what we're asking for Word FM.

1450             That format has a proven track record of financial success and attractiveness to Christian audiences, yet few English language Canadian stations have adopted it.

1451             The U.S. Arbitron data in Appendix 7 shows that the 45 plus age group prefers the traditional religious format proposed by Word FM, whereas the 18‑44 age group prefers the CCM format of our existing station CHRI‑FM.

1452             Appendix 8 illustrates that Ottawans and Canadians are on average older than Americans.  Based on age, the traditional religious format that we're proposing should attract an even larger audience here than in the U.S.

1453             On a personal note, most people who will enjoy Word FM are active, healthy and happy, such as those representatives you have here on our panel.

1454             However, many people will turn to the station as a source of solace and encouragement during difficult times.  An example of my parents alone, when they were dying of cancer at the Bruyerè Centre and at the Montfort long‑term health care facility, all of their abilities left them over a period of several months, but they would still respond to familiar prayers and to the hymns of their youth.  Word FM would have been a comfort to them, day and night, during that difficult time.

1455             Now, my mother‑in‑law faces a prolonged decline from Alzheimer's Disease and I'm hoping that Word FM will be there for them.

1456             Bill Collins will tell us more about the demand for this kind of radio.

1457             MR. COLLINS:  We've shown that Word FM's proposed teaching and spiritual music format would flourish given Ottawa's size and age distribution in comparison with U.S. radio markets.

1458             We've also shown that at least nine Canadian cities sustain more than one faith‑based radio station.

1459             Now, I'll zoom in on the demand for Word FM in the Ottawa market.  A market study of Ottawa's church‑going households by my firm, equal‑IT Consultants Inc., which was included in the Word FM application in 2004 indicated that although some older listeners would transfer their listening time from CHRI‑FM to Word FM, total hours tuned across the two stations would be expected to double, some at the expense of CBC Radio.  In light of CBC Radio Two's announced reduction in orchestral programming, we can expect that Word FM's sacred classical music programming would attract an even greater audience.

1460             Appendix 9 shows that there is a large church‑going population in Ottawa above 45 years of age, more so than between 15 and 44.  This means that Word FM has a potential audience at least as large as CHRI‑FM.

1461             Getting back to age categories, we have found that the 45 plus age group which represents about half the adult population and growing is served by only five of the 30 radio stations heard in Ottawa.

1462             Appendix 10 also shows that according to Arbitron, 12 to 44‑year‑olds are one and a half to four times more likely to use new media like iPods and subscription radio than the 45 plus group.

1463             Word FM would have little competition from existing stations and new media.

1464             As we have demonstrated in our application documents, the 45 plus group has even more characteristics that appeal to Word FM.  The 45 group is far more likely to donate money and time and is more generous with those donations than younger age groups.  We also have more opportunities.

1465             The 45 plus group also listens to more radio than younger groups, which is surprising, given that fewer stations target them.

1466             Now, let's look at the future.  The Ontario Department of Finance projects that the 45‑64 and the 65 plus age groups are the only ones to grow in Ottawa over the next 23 years, even taking into account generous assumptions about immigration.

1467             This is in Appendix 11.  The future is gray and that is good for Word FM.

1468             We believe that Word FM is the most effective use of 99.7 FM.  In Appendix 12 we counted 780 letters in support of Word FM.

1469             This is more than any other applicant before you in these proceedings and is a strong indicator of market demand.

1470             The introduction of CHRI‑FM into the Ottawa market 11 years ago demonstrated that adding a Christian music station to a city's media mix enlarges the advertising pie and does not take revenue away from existing stations.

1471             It does this in two ways:  by increasing total hours tuned from previously unserved listeners, and by attracting affinity advertisers that agree with the station's wholesome sound.

1472             Word FM would go one step further.  Its main commercial revenue source would be from air time buys from syndicated programs, local churches, private donations.

1473             I'll turn it back to Bob and he'll tell us some more.

1474             MR. DU BROY:  In Appendix 13 we have one program distributor that's offering to put a lot of programs, eight in fact, on the air at about $120 per half hour.  Other perspective distributors have shown an interest.

1475             In Appendix 14 we have other Canadian shows ‑‑ shows that are broadcast in Ottawa but not yet ‑‑ sorry, in Canada but not yet in Ottawa that are willing to come on board, it seems because they're in Canada already.

1476             We're proposing substantial locally produced programming, that is in Appendix 15, and we're also developing all kinds of news provider relationships which I can tell you about now.

1477             Radio Vatican is one and there are several others beyond broadcast news.  News and current affairs programming would be delivered in a locally produced segment between 6:00 a.m. and 6:30 a.m., repeated 6:00 p.m. Monday to Saturday.  We would also have a 15‑minute segment from the Vatican World News Service which is similar to BBC's World News Service.

1478             Zoom, a program from Salt + Light, Canada Watch Radio and Family News in Focus would also be added to the news package and in drive hours we would have locally produced headline news for three minutes, sports and weather at the tops of hours as well as PSAs at the bottoms of hours.

1479             David MacDonald now is going to talk to us about the impact Word FM will have on listeners' lives.

1480             MR. MacDONALD:  So, CHRI has done a great job at promoting Canadian talent in the contemporary area of music and Word FM will do the same for Canadian traditional praise and worship, southern gospel, liturgical, inspirational artists.

1481             You find a list of such artists in Appendix 16.

1482             Word FM would do this through air play, sponsoring concerts, contributing to the charts, just like CHRI‑FM is doing for contemporary artists right now.

1483             CHRI has consistently exceeded Canadian content requirements for specialty music and Word FM plans to do the same.  It will help Canadian artists, it will help me as a Canadian artist.

1484             I was on Broadway, I was in the U.S. national tour of Cats.  I lost everything because of alcoholism and it was a Christian message that put me back on my feet.

1485             And my brother who was a successful director in the government, I can't help but think that the morning that he committed suicide, it would have meant ‑‑ perhaps if he had turned on the radio and heard a message of hope that was geared to his age group, a message of inspiration, maybe he would have made a different decision that day.

1486             We have old people all over this city who are isolated, who are coming from broken families, divorce, loss of a spouse, addiction rates, alcoholism rates soaring among this community, a lot of them can't get to church and they'd like to.  These are people who we need to reach out to through the media.

1487             And I believe that Word FM will give them a message of hope that we need on Ottawa's airwaves.

1488             And now I'll turn it over to George who will talk about our proposed open‑line show which is called Converse.

1489             REV. DESJARDINS:  We propose a weekly call‑in show from 7:30 to 8:30 a.m. that would allow listener participation.  This is important on an information rich station like Word FM because it would engage the audience.

1490             It would also allow listeners to express their opinions on the topics of the day.  And, thirdly, it would allow the audience to dialogue on differences between denominations and religions that would emerge in other Word FM programming.

1491             Music would be played between calls, perhaps sometimes live by guest musicians.

1492             Other guest hosts could be civic, business and religious leaders including non‑Christian leaders.

1493             To comply with the CRTC's open‑line policy, Public Notice CRTC 1988‑213, Word FM will implement appropriate operator training and technology.

1494             First, station management will require that both the on‑air host and the operator must be familiar with the policy through formal training before working on the show.

1495             Second, the policy will be prominently displayed in the studio.

1496             Third, the host will remind the audience of the policy over the air at least once a month.

1497             Although not required by the CRTC, the station will have a profanity delay device such as the Symetrix 610 or the Eventide BD‑500 so that the host or operator can catch and stop any abusive comment from a caller, a guest or the host before it goes over the air.

1498             Fay will tell us more about programming Word FM plans to produce in other languages.

1499             MS YEN‑HUI CHAO:  We have received several proposals from the community for programs in languages other than English.  These programs will cover events, interviews with authors and artists, current affairs and religious instruction, in particular, weekly programs in French, Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin and Spanish have been proposed.

1500             Appendix 17 indicates the significance of these language groups in Ottawa.

1501             Appendix 18 gives the distribution of Chinese population by religion in Canada and Ottawa.

1502             And Rabbi Fine has more to say about the populations.

1503             RABBI FINE:  As you'll see in Appendix 19, adherents to non‑Christian religions make up about 7.35 per cent of the population of Ottawa.  This is a population that religious broadcasting policy would expect Word FM to reflect, the challenges to make multi‑faith programming instructional and attractive to the station's main audience of Christian listeners.

1504             Judaism plays a special role in the identity of Christians and to members of other mono‑theistic faiths such as the Muslims.  A daily program on the Jewish Bible and culture would therefore have the broadest market appeal within and outside the Christian community.

1505             I currently host the weekly program Reflections on the Torah on CHRI‑FM.  We examine the weekly readings of the Torah and comment on.  We plan to expand the vision of the show and to run it six days a week on Word FM.

1506             A proposed 15 minutes daily program called The Ancient Faiths would have a broader religious scope.  Local Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs and Jewish religious leaders would be asked questions like:  What is Heaven?  How do you live a life pleasing to your God?, and to Describe your sacred readings.

1507             Word FM would run Jewish programming and the ancient faiths almost daily.  Word FM has committed to air a minimum of 7.5‑hours of balanced programming every week as a condition of licence.

1508             To ensure that balanced programming reaches its intended audience and enlists their participation, Word FM is forming a multi‑faith programming advisory committee to schedule interview guests for the ancient faiths and provide topics, scheduled guest panelists for one episode a week of a live call‑in show and proposed topics, provide a sounding board to ensure that other station content producers are sensitive to multi‑faith issues and to prepare promotion campaigns to get these programs known by their intended audiences.

1509             I must tell you that the advisory committee is already ‑‑ we've started, we've talked to a few members of the leadership of various communities and two at least have now bought into the idea.

1510             The advisory committee would meet formally at least twice a year and would dialogue informally several times a year.

1511             Word FM would also examine multi‑faith issues in its newscasts.

1512             And now Gerry will give our concluding remarks.

1513             MR. TURCOTTE:  So, what we've tried to present, Mr. Chair, is a picture of a working group, CHRI Inc., that is putting forward a proposal to create a new station that hits a demographic that is there, that looks totally viable from any business perspective I have and we encourage you to approve this application.

1514             Thank you.

1515             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Turcotte.

1516             Well, thank you.

1517             I appreciate particularly your Appendix 19 where your catalogue have been put with Christians because we have a tendency at public hearings where we deal with Christian broadcasting but catalogues were not part of the Christians, so...

1518             MR. TURCOTTE:  We are a little different.

1519             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Katz will ask you the first questions.

1520             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And good morning.

1521             In reading your application, it strikes me that one of the most significant bases for your application is the need to divide your audience, the fact that you have got a bifurcated audience, you have got those people that are 45 or over and the youth as well.

1522             Is there no other way of reaching the two audiences other than having a separate radio station for them?

1523             MR. TURCOTTE:  Not within the constraints of a 24‑hour day.  In other words, you've got the audience that you're targeting now and they take most of that space.

1524             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Do you not find that the youth focus on certain hours of the day or week while adults focus on a different time of day and week?

1525             MR. TURCOTTE:  If I could just speak as an older person.

1526             I used to stay up when I ran the communications research centre until one o'clock every morning, get up at six o'clock and go to work.

1527             I still get up at six o'clock, but I tell you, I go to bed at 10:00 now.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

1528             MR. TURCOTTE:  So, the time when we think that the elderly are available, in my experience, is marginal.  I'm sure there are some that can't sleep at night, et cetera, et cetera.

1529             And you're quite right that there's always a struggle as to what programming goes in what time slot.  And perhaps David could add a comment from the artist's point of view.

1530             MR. MacDONALD:  Yeah.  You know, in the 60s, you know, you'd have one black artist and everybody'd go, you have your star already, you have your black artist, that's it, you know, we're not ‑‑ what do you need another artist for, you know, you have one?

1531             And I can see the same sort of kind of thing here is, you know, Christians ‑‑ you know, Christians are not just one little pack of, you know, all huddled in a corner of society, we're out there in the world and living, you know, many different kinds of lives demographically and attitudinally and all kinds of things because of our age.

1532             And, so, I don't know but, you know, I hang around a lot of Christian youth and I can tell you they're a lot different than Christian adults, the same as youth in the general population.

1533             So, I honestly think that sort of the idea of only having just one little station with all these people huddled in the corner is kind of like the idea of the old days when we could only have one black rock star.

1534             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  But would the teachings be different of an ethnic culture, whether you are talking or appealing to people that are 45 or 50 versus the youth that are 18 to 25?

1535             MR. TURCOTTE:  If I could answer that question, Mr. Commissioner.

1536             Ottawa is a very sophisticated radio market and more and more we're seeing more and more specialized formats, so we're not just talking about adult contemporary music, it could be hot adult contemporary music or Triple A music or fine slices of gray.

1537             And the same is the case with the Christian market.  We've demonstrated in our numbers there are huge numbers of Christians in Ottawa.

1538             Statistics Canada finds that 29 per cent of Canadians are very religious and that's a large part of the population.

1539             To try to meet very diverse needs in a large population with one station is very difficult.  It's standard programming wisdom to deliver one format to one audience, and when you have a significant audience, target that audience and go with it.

1540             If you try to spread several formats over a station, you weaken total listenership because people will tune in at the time when programming doesn't interest them, brand the station that way and never come back.

1541             I spoke to Malcolm Hunt, who was the program director for a network of stations, Touch Canada, five stations that they operate mostly in Alberta and British Columbia.  They have two stations in Edmonton, CJCA and CJRY‑FM.  CJRY‑FM is the contemporary Christian music station.  CJCA is the teaching and southern gospel station that reaches the older demographic.

1542             He is adamant about this, that this is the right way to go.  You cannot have a hybrid station, that he calls it, and program it properly, having teaching programs and traditional music programs on the same station as essentially a Christian rock station.

1543             Again I will reiterate, if you permit me, if somebody tunes in at the wrong time, if Gerry were to tune in during the rock block on CHRI at 9:00 p.m. Friday, his ears will be ringing and he will not come back.

1544             One of the people who funded CHRI at the very beginning, her name is Zita Hagan.  That was 12 years ago.  When we went on the air 11 years ago, I turned on the station for her ‑‑ this lady was over 65 years of age ‑‑ to show her this is what your money has done.  There was a rock song on the air and she sort of smiled politely and said oh, that's very nice.  But you know that is not very nice for her.  Whereas if a teenager tunes in at 1 o'clock in the afternoon and hears Insight for Living on CHRI, which unfortunately is one of the accommodations we have made to try to get a few teaching shows on the air, they will just be bored to tears and again maybe never come back.

1545             So this is the reality we are facing.

1546             There are at least two distinct markets, probably more, and large ‑‑ well, in Ottawa sized markets in the States, as we have shown, there are four Christian stations to serve these markets, even places like Boston where there is a large Catholic population.  So this is not just a Bible Belt phenomenon.

1547             Because of the need to target a market with targeted programming, there really is a need for at least two stations in Ottawa.

1548             David Gallucci is a media sales specialist and he can certainly address this.

1549             MR. GALLUCCI:  Mr. Commissioner, I would like to comment on advertising revenue, ad building and promoting our stations.  With the WORD‑FM teaching style and demographic reach and our target audience skewing 45 and higher, it will attract a totally different and more unique advertiser and advertising strategy for the advertiser.

1550             We are very professional in our approach, in our sales and marketing team structure and we are targeting to build and direct our advertisers to the proper programming and mix of advertising.  We feel that a lot of advertising will be new ads and different advertisers that CHRI is presently receiving, although some of course will enjoy both stations.

1551             If I can give a good example, Broyhill Furniture, a very popular and high‑end quality brand that he sells, he also has medium prices to attract the younger, new younger families, but he has the highest end that is available as well to attract maybe the retired, maybe the middle‑aged person who has a little more disposable income to invest as well.

1552             Now, again back to the different demographic of WORD‑FM, when I worked in Calgary, Alberta for 10 years, I was in my early 20s, mid‑20s, and I enjoyed and loved the teaching programs we received out of one station in High River, south of Calgary, and another one came out of Red Deer, and then the odd time we would pick up an Edmonton station.  Here I am a young adult, active and energetic working for the Calgary Sun Newspaper, a very 18‑to‑49 age level readership and flashy style compared to the Calgary Herald, which is like the Ottawa Citizen.

1553             My point I want to make is that I was young and I had a lot of Christian friends in our church that tuned in to these teaching programs that we picked up in Calgary and we loved them:  Focus on the Family, Chuck Swindoll, all these famous theologians and writers and producers.  They taught us a lot of things.  We learned a lot.

1554             Now, CHRI is a little different.  It has fantastic music, also some teaching programs in the early afternoon for three hours.  That is very limited.  But it has a total mix of all the items that were mentioned, the public service announcements, the ministerial associations and the terrific works in helping in every way they can to the poorest with their reach and their message.

1555             Advertisers enjoy that station.

1556             We would get a different advertiser slightly skewed higher on WORD‑FM.

1557             Now, if I could also mention I have been with the Toronto Sun, Sun Media Corporation, for 27 years.  We produce print and publish Forever Young.  We don't own it, but we publish that newspaper.

1558             We also have 50 Years Plus, we have Capital Parent.  There are many other publications that are skewed to a higher demographic, full of different types of advertisers in there: travel, homebuilders, automotive, all levels of retail.

1559             Again, it is a huge, enormous level and choice of different types of advertisers that I feel and we all agree that we will build revenue from, that are not currently on CHRI.

1560             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I'm not questioning that.

1561             MR. GALLUCCI:  Sure.

1562             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  The point I was trying to make is it comes down to scheduling, and certain people watch at certain times.  I understand if the wrong person turns into a rock music, they may never come back again.

1563             MR. GALLUCCI:  Right.

1564             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  But that just ties into scheduling, promotion and advertising, no different than the CBC.  Some people want to watch hockey games and they will tune into the Stanley Cup and they won't watch local news or anything else.  Others only watch local news and never watch sports.

1565             MR. GALLUCCI:  Sure.

1566             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I was trying to see whether there was a distinction there within the radio industry for your sector, and what I am hearing you telling me is the answer is no.

1567             MR. GALLUCCI:  Well, there is a distinction.  If I could answer, there is a difference in the content of each station, there is a big difference.

1568             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Can I take you to your submission of January 17, 2007, if you have it.  If not, I will read you a couple of excerpts of it.

1569             It went with your application itself and on the second page of it there was a comment under "Viable" where it reads:

                      "CFMO‑FM will make efficient use of CHRI‑FM existing infrastructure to control costs."  (As read)

1570             And I will come back to that statement in a minute.

1571             The next sentence reads as follows:

                      "CFMO‑FM will efficiently exploit an otherwise unusable frequency by carefully locating its transmitters to optimize."

(As read)

1572             What do you mean by "otherwise unusable frequency"?  It sounds like you are saying that no one else can use it.

1573             We have a number of applications here by other folks as well who were looking for this frequency.

1574             So is there an implication here that I don't understand?

1575             MR. TURCOTTE:  Bob will speak to that.

1576             MR. DU BROY:  That was a slip of the keyboard.  It is a drop in frequency definitely.  Right now ‑‑ well, before info radio services or information ‑‑ Instant Information Services was on the air in Ottawa, you could hear The Bear's Pembroke repeater here in Ottawa if you were driving around that 99.7.

1577             So clearly 99.7 is a drop in frequency; there are restrictions on it.  You can't do too much with it for fear of the signal spilling over and getting into The Bear's protected territory farther north in the Ottawa Valley.

1578             So when we came up with our original technical brief, working very closely with our engineer on what the parameters are and what the target market was, we found a location for our transmitter that we thought just couldn't be matched otherwise for population coverage, for protecting The Bear and for reaching the market we wanted.

1579             So at that time, not seeing other technical briefs, it appeared that we made the most effective use of that frequency.

1580             Evidently now there are other proposals and some have had to negotiate with The Bear.  So I think that is where that situation is.

1581             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.  And then on that same page where you talk about "CHMO will add programming diversity to Ottawa" and you talk about your current listeners and you say, towards the end:

                      "CHRI current programming is 82% youth oriented contemporary Christian music, which would increase to 96% after CFMO‑FM would go on the air."  (As read)

1582             Which leads one to believe you would transition those people to the new radio station.  That would cause you to lose listeners on the home station CHRI.

1583             MR. DU BROY:  If it were a zero‑sum game, that's true, but it's not a zero‑sum game.

1584             As they demonstrated in Edmonton, by having targeted formats, you increase audience on each station.  So we fully believe that CHRI‑FM would attract more people by removing the programming aimed at older people and CFMO would pick up more than that many.  We would end up with a much happier end result.

1585             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  What is the current financial status of the home station, CHRI, right now?

1586             MR. DU BROY:  It's viable.

1587             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  It's viable?

1588             MR. DU BROY:  Yes.  It's solvent.

1589             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  It's generating a PBIT margin that is in keeping with industry norms?

1590             MR. DU BROY:  We would like it to do better.

1591             One of the difficulties on that station again is because ‑‑ introducing the teaching programming was supposed to be an interim strategy, as sort of an introductory offer to let people know what we would produce on CFMO.  But that interim has turned into close to four years now because our last application was in 2004.

1592             So that I feel has eroded our listenership.

1593             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  All right.

1594             When I look at the economic data that you filed, I think you are one of the few applicants who filed what I consider to be a very bold budget where your profitability shows up in the very first year and grows quite healthy over the seven‑year term.

1595             MR. DU BROY:  Indeed.

1596             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  You get very few businesses that walk in on day one with this strong a financial position.

1597             I want to explore with you both the revenue side of this thing and the likelihood of achieving these revenues ‑‑ and I guess there is someone here who will speak to that ‑‑ but also the overlap between some of your costs, I guess, and one of the statements that again you made in your filing of January 17th where you said:

                      "CFMO will make efficient use of CHRI's existing infrastructure to control costs."  (As read)

1598             That leads me to believe that the current operation has some excess costs or you are going to find some very creative ways of leveraging what you already have without incurring any additional costs.

1599             MR. DU BROY:  Sorry, Mr. Commissioner, that sentence really was referring to the incremental additional costs of a second station, not controlling costs on the current station.

1600             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.

1601             MR. DU BROY:  What it does mean is that economies of scale in a lot of areas, in administration and use of technical resources, even our contracts with engineers, sales people, accountants, would be then spread over two operations rather than one, and a lot of them would involve no additional cost.  Some of them would involve just a marginal additional cost to add the services for a second operation.

1602             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I will come back to the revenue side of it in a minute.

1603             In looking at the results for CHRI ‑‑ and I know they are confidential so I won't release any data.  But when I look at your financials, there is roughly 75 or 80 per cent of your total costs lumped into one category called "Administration and General".

1604             So you have X amount of dollars in total expenses and roughly 80 per cent of that in one line called "Administration and General", and then you have some costs spread across "Programming", "Technical", "Sales" and "Promotion".

1605             What is "Administration and General"?

1606             MR. DU BROY:  This is for CFMO?

1607             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  For CHRI.

1608             MR. DU BROY:  Now, we didn't submit that in this application, did we?  That's outside of the application?

1609             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Well, it is part of the leveraging of the two businesses together.  You are talking about using your economies of scale and leveraging, and so I want to get a sense of what's in here just so I understand how you are going to use some of this in your new application.

1610             MR. DU BROY:  But, Mr. Commissioner, you are referring to the application document we filed.

1611             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I am referring to the application document you filed and some of the information that we have on record that you have filed yourself ‑‑

1612             MR. DU BROY:  Yes.

1613             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  ‑‑ perhaps not as part of this specific application but as part of your annual reporting obligations.

1614             MR. DU BROY:  Yes.  These are categories that are pretty standard, so it would be hard for me to tease those out.  I'm not a professional ‑‑

1615             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I'm not actually after dollars.  All I want to know is what goes in there.

1616             MR. DU BROY:  General administration.  I would imagine a great deal of office rent, hydro, water.  I believe salaries go in there as well.

1617             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Maybe you can look into it and if there is some way where they can let us know what is in there?

1618             MR. DU BROY:  Yes.

1619             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, I ‑‑

1620             MR. DU BROY:  This is a standard category, sorry.

1621             THE CHAIRPERSON:  There are two other phases where the applicant is authorized to appear, so they could provide a reply at that time.

1622             If you have chosen not to reappear, you could always file it in writing, but we will want to have it by the end of the day tomorrow at the latest.

1623             MR. DU BROY:  All right, I can obtain that.

1624             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Thank you.

1625             MR. DU BROY:  But again, these are our standard accounting categories.  The CRTC most likely somewhere has a list of the details behind those line items.

1626             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  No, I mean they are standard accounting lines.  The issue is when we or when I look at other radio stations, I don't find a disproportionate amount of costs or expenses in that line itself.  It is usually spread across all the other categories:  technical, programming, sales and promotion.

1627             MR. TURCOTTE:  We will accept your suggestion we take it off‑line, but it is a small station and that's why.  I have asked the same question when I was Chair.

1628             MR. DU BROY:  Excuse me.

1629             Mr. Commissioner, when I was at CBC, for example, when all the numbers were rolled up, it seemed that human resources made up 50 per cent of the operating budget, very close to that, and that is very close to what we have seen in other broadcast operations as well.

1630             So I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that administration and general, if it includes labour, would be a large number.  But we will take it off‑line.

1631             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.

1632             MR. DU BROY:  I will submit it tomorrow.

1633             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Can we move to the revenue side now of your current application.

1634             MR. DU BROY:  Certainly.

1635             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Perhaps you can speak to some of the forecasts of revenue, in particular the objective of significant national revenue, which is unique to this sector as well, based on our experience across the country and the data that we have that you may not have as well.

1636             But this certainly is a unique situation where 50 per cent of your revenue is going to come from a national program, sales program.

1637             So perhaps you can expand upon that?

1638             MR. DU BROY:  Absolutely.  In fact, this is very conservative.  We would expect that national program sales would amount to far more than 50 per cent of the total revenue budget.

1639             National ads on conventional radio stations, especially local stations without a large national presence, would, as you say, in our estimation would probably amount to about 10 per cent of total ad sales and that has been our experience at CHRI, pretty close to it.

1640             There are a few large national advertisers like Compassion Canada and a few other of our clients that make up a good chunk of our revenue, but it has not exceeded 10 per cent of total sales.

1641             But the business model for a teaching and hymn station is very different.  The majority of the revenue would come from national programs.  These are our long‑form teaching programs that would buy air time in chunks of 15 or 25 minutes at a time.

1642             And because over 50 hours a week of the schedule would be paid time of that nature, that's why the national programs line is so large.

1643             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Do you get any national revenue today for CHRI?

1644             MR. DU BROY:  I don't know if we break it out by advertiser, but we do break it out for national programs; and we do, yes.  It is over $100,000 a year.

1645             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.  Again, the information that I have in front of me here that is your filing, I believe, indicates that for CHRI there was none in the last several years and it is all categorized under "Local Time Sales".

1646             So if there is a reporting issue here, it might be worthwhile knowing that as well.

1647             MR. DU BROY:  Is most likely a reporting issue.  It is possible that our accountant can't distinguish between a national advertiser and a local advertiser.  I have an idea of the client list so I know that.

1648             But certainly programs should be distinguished from short form ad sales, and I guess our accountant just hasn't broken out the detail.

1649             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I guess the question I'm asking is ‑‑ and if you are telling me it is an allocation problem, that is a different story ‑‑ is what experience do you have with national advertising sales, given I have seen none of it in your current operations?

1650             So what I need is some warm and cuddly as to your experience, your ability to deliver, your machinery of operations, sales, promotions, advertising, whatever.

1651             MR. DU BROY:  Well, I can let you know right now we are dealing with at least two large program distributors in Canada, C. Reimer out of Winnipeg and Eagle‑Com out of Delta, British Columbia.  They are buying time on the air, plus a couple of other smaller distributors, totalling 17 hours a week, which unfortunately makes CHRI‑FM the hybrid station that we don't want to be.

1652             But yes, we are dealing with program distributors.  We have good relationships.  These are national programs and we have significant national program revenue now.  So we have good relationships with those distributors.

1653             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.  I want to come back now to local programming and news.  Perhaps you can give me some indication as to the total number of pure news you will be broadcasting during the broadcast week?

1654             MR. DU BROY:  There is an appendix that addresses that.

1655             Appendix 21 goes over some of the conditions of licence we agreed to in response to deficiency letters.

1656             So the expected number of pure news hours for programming week ‑‑ well, actually the news programming hours is 12.5, but those include news packages that include sports and weather.

1657             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Is there any way of breaking that out so we know what the pure news is distinct from the sports and what we call the other substantial issues?

1658             MR. DU BROY:  Eighty percent of that would be pure news, so at a very minimum 10 hours per week would be pure news.

1659             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.  You also ‑‑ and I guess maybe this is more of a confusion that I had, or some of the staff had as well.  The broadcast week is 126 hours and in some places there was reference to 168 hours, which is 24/7.

1660             So the question of 8 per cent of news being committed to, is that based on 24/7 or 18/7?

1661             MR. DU BROY:  Is based on the broadcast week.

1662             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Based on the broadcast week.  Thank you.

1663             You focused on live to air programming as well in your application.  Can you expand upon it as well and explain perhaps how money hours the broadcast week will be live to air?

1664             MR. DU BROY:  At a very minimum, we would have a one‑hour weekday open line show that would definitely be live to air, with the accommodation of the time delay box.

1665             Beyond that we would have a live announcer who would introduce the morning programs, so essentially a program jockey or PJ who would allow the listener to feel they have a companion there with them.

1666             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.  I noticed and I think you mentioned CHRI as well having some degree of programming that overlaps with yours as well.

1667             I think you indicated that you would provide the best programming diversity in the market.

1668             Can you expand upon how you see your slate, your programming lineup as it relates to CHRI?

1669             MR. DU BROY:  There would be a transition time no doubt when we would be sending the teaching programming listeners of CHRI‑FM to WORD‑FM.  But ultimately if we adopt the programming philosophy of Malcolm Hunt on Touch Canada, for the Touch Canada network, ultimately CHRI‑FM would be almost entirely musical programming and WORD‑FM would be the teaching and hymns format.

1670             After the transition period, if the CHRI‑FM management decides they want to retain some of those teaching programs, there would still be no duplication.  We would have a very distinct program lineup on each station.

1671             Focus on the Family seems to want to stay on CHRI‑FM, because CHRI‑FM is reaching a lot of 30‑year‑old females that Focus on the Family wants to reach.

1672             Now, we have to decide whether we want to do what the client thinks is best or what we as programmers think is best, so we haven't quite resolved that yet.

1673             As programmers, we believe it would be best to have that program on WORD‑FM, not on CHRI‑FM.  Ultimately it would probably be better for the program as well.

1674             So these are things yet to resolve.

1675             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Okay.

1676             MR. DU BROY:  Just to reiterate, there would be no duplication in programming.  Whatever the final outcome after the transition period, the titles on one station would not appear on the other.

1677             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  You talked about the size of the market and the audience you are going to be attracting and I think you talked relative to the audience for CHRI, but you never filed any information with regard to audience shares at all.

1678             Do you want to talk to it or provide us with some indication of what you are anticipating the audience share would be?

1679             MR. DU BROY:  Because we don't subscribe to BBM and we only get information through our own surveys, we have pieced together a picture of our audience size.

1680             It seems to be between 30,000 and 40,000 weekly cume.  And based on all of our numbers, we would see that number at least duplicated on WORD‑FM.  There might be a little bit of overlap, but it would be fair to assume that we will get 40,000 as a weekly cume for CFMO as well, especially given the Edmonton experience.  They are getting 60,000 as a weekly cume on each of their two stations.

1681             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Do you see that in the first year or in the last year or constant throughout the period of time?

1682             MR. DU BROY:  We would probably achieve that by year two, after people have gone through a few cycles of our promotion programs.

1683             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Has CHRI seen an increase in audience share over the last five years that you have been operating in?

1684             MR. DU BROY:  There was some increase in familiarity after the first two years.  It is really difficult to reach the people you know should be listening, so it has taken a while to build that up.  But since then it has been pretty stable.

1685             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  On the issue of CCD, I think you have said that you were looking at FACTOR as where the direction of the CCD would go.

1686             MR. DU BROY:  Correct.

1687             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Would you have a problem with making that a condition of licence if in fact you were to achieve that licence?

1688             MR. DU BROY:  No.  We have accepted that as a condition of licence.

1689             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Thank you.

1690             Those are all my questions, Mr. Chairman.

1691             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Katz.

1692             Legal counsel...?

1693             Before going to legal counsel, we will make a copy of the oral presentation available at the Secretariat.  Our staff perused throughout the various appendices.  They are in some instances a remake of some information in another format, and they are also some of the appendices that are not material but probably were not filed as is.

1694             So if anyone wants to consult them, we accept them as part of your oral presentation this morning, but we will make them available through our Secretariat for the rest of the hearing.

1695             So, legal counsel...?

1696             MR. GAGNON:  Thank you.  Just a few questions.

1697             We two different numbers here on record regarding spoken word.  One of our numbers is 103 hours per week and the other one is 107.

1698             Could you explain or just tell us which one it is?

1699             MR. DU BROY:  It was most likely 107.

1700             What has happened is over time we discovered some programs were available, some were not.  Obviously some program producers no longer have them in the catalog.  So that number is varied.

1701             And some others that we found were Canadian were very attractive, so we added those to the last version.

1702             So if it is acceptable to have 107, that is what we would prefer.

1703             MR. GAGNON:  Okay.  Thank you.

1704             In terms of interference, we have noticed that you would be third adjacent with your own frequency on CHRI‑FM.  Do you expect any impact on any of the two frequencies and what impact would that be?

1705             MR. DU BROY:  There would be a very small impact.  Actually, I will be addressing that again in response to the intervention from CTVglobemedia because we would also be a third adjacency to Majic 100.

1706             Our proposal has our signal, the 115 DBU part of the signal, that contour ends up in Carlington Park where no one lives, and the most dense part of the population covered by that contour would be directly below our transmitter in a building, an apartment building of 275 units.  So that could be 530 or 550 people.

1707             They will not be affected by the 115 DBU signal; they are in the no‑zone.  So there would be a very limited effect on CHRI‑FM listeners, which is in contrast to a lot of the other applicants who are setting up transmitters in more densely populated areas.  So we do not see a big issue there.

1708             The other advantage to Christian Hit Radio operating both frequencies is that we will accept complaint calls on one phone number for the two stations.  So when it comes time to resolve those issues, we will definitely hear about it and we will resolve them.

1709             But again, we don't anticipate a lot of problems.

1710             MR. GAGNON:  Thank you.

1711             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Gentlemen, thank you very much for your presentation this morning.

1712             We will take a 10‑minute break.  We will be back at 10 past 10:00.

1713             Thank you.

1714             MR. TURCOTTE:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1000 / Suspension à 1000

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1015 / Reprise à 1015

1715             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Order, please.

1716             Madam Secretary.

1717             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1718             We will now proceed with Item 7, which is an application by Ottawa Media Inc. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Ottawa and Gatineau.

1719             Please introduce yourself and your colleagues.  You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation.  Thank you.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

1720             MR. EVANOV:  Thank you.  Bonjour, good morning, Chair Arpin, Commissioners and Commission Staff.  My name is Bill Evanov.  I am the President of Ottawa Media Inc.

1721             With me here today, on my right, is Carmela Laurignano, Vice‑President and Group Manager and part owner of Ottawa Media Inc.

1722             To Carmela's right is Valerie Hochschild.  Valerie has held positions with radio stations both in the United States and Canada.  Valerie has been instrumental in putting together our Triple A playlist and developing the program paradigm.

1723             To her right is Ky Joseph, Vice‑President of Sales, also a partner in Ottawa Media Inc., who will speak to you about the challenges associated with operating a stand‑alone station on a frequency that is severely restricted, both in terms of coverage of the Ottawa CMA and power.

1724             In the back row, seated to my left, on your right, is Jim Moltner, our Broadcast Engineer.

1725             Next to Jim is Rob Malcolmson, legal counsel from Goodmans.

1726             Beside Rob is Debra McLaughlin from Strategic Inc., who has authored our demand and economic studies.

1727             Finally, next to Debra is Sean Moreman, our in‑house legal counsel and former radio news director.

1728             In 2004 we appeared before you with an idea of how to serve people in Ottawa who were 45 years of age and older.  Our concept for a contemporary easy‑listening station, which is The Jewel, was the first of its kind at the time, and certainly novel in the market.  We are pleased to be before you once again with yet another innovative idea, accompanied by a first‑hand understanding of the complexities of the Ottawa‑Gatineau market.

1729             While on paper and overall it is a profitable radio market, Ottawa‑Gatineau is also highly competitive, and most of the competition comes in the form of large radio broadcast companies like Astral, Rogers, Corus, CTV/CHUM, each of whom operates multiple stations in and around the market.

1730             This market is dynamic, challenging, and complicated by the consumers.  Working in two official languages, Ottawa‑Gatineau is unique, and certainly not for the faint of heart.  Our new proposal embraces the opportunities created by this uniqueness and provides consumers with a new listening option through a creative approach to programming.

1731             I will now turn it over to my team to introduce you to ALICE.

1732             MS LAURIGNANO:  Sometimes ideas are a result of our own deliberations, and sometimes they are a result of the deliberations of others.  In the case of ALICE, it was the latter.  As early as 2004, when we were doing the research for The Jewel, we noticed an easily identifiable group of consumers in this market that were dissatisfied with radio.  They ranged in age from early twenties through to their mid‑fifties.  They were not happy with their choices, and cited the lack of variety in the music, the concentration of airplay for a few artists, and the inability to relate to spoken word programming as primary reasons.

1733             They described radio as lacking intelligence, both in terms of how it was programmed and the spoken word, and expressed a frustration at the growing lack of respect that they sensed in the language, humour and content choices.

1734             Our proposal for The Jewel directly dealt with all of these issues.  However, we knew at the time, and our subsequent research confirmed, that The Jewel could only address a portion of the disenfranchised audience.

1735             Over the years, as we have continued to research Ottawa‑Gatineau, a pattern has formed.  At first it was only apparent through the feedback we were receiving when we tested programming in the market.  Recently it has begun to show up in the tuning levels reported by BBM.  There has been a decline in the use of radio among persons between the ages of 35 to 54, and, in particular, among females 35 to 54.

1736             When we spoke to consumers who report using radio less than they used to, and consulted with people who report low levels of satisfaction with radio choices, a clear picture of who the majority of these people were emerged.

1737             Unlike the core 45‑plus listeners to a contemporary easy‑listening station, this consumer is not ready to trade in their rock music for a more mature sound.  Regardless of their chronological years, they still like to stay abreast of current music, have a high interest in new music and new artists, and refuse to be pigeon‑holed as a fan of any single genre of music.  They know the lyrics to current pop songs, and yet turn up the radio when Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run" comes on.  Music is very important to them, and they wish for programming that talks to them and not down to or around them.

1738             While they come from a whole wide range of backgrounds, they do coalesce into a single consumer group, identifiable through their preferences.  They share a love of music, a disdain for being patronized, and hold their products and services to a higher standard.  They are, in fact, many of the people on the panel you see before you, and, I suspect, many in this room.  They are ALICE.

1739             MS McLAUGHLIN:  As Carmela has stated, ALICE was born of research.  Repeatedly, when we were testing music mixes in this market, there was a group of consumers who would report that, while they appreciated the variety being played on The Jewel, they felt the music was too sedate for their tastes.  They wanted something louder, more energetic, and something that could provide a blend of contemporary music styles.

1740             They complained of a high repetition of tracks on pop stations, which rendered these services unlistenable for any length of time.

1741             They were frustrated with the need to continually change stations to experience a variety of music styles, and they were convinced that stations in the market under‑represented Canadian artists.

1742             They readily provided a long list of performers and tracks that they could not hear on radio, and that they had to go to other sources to find.

1743             They felt that their choices in radio were limited, inasmuch as programming strategies followed dichotomies ‑‑ current versus older, rock versus soft, male perspective versus female, elitist versus adolescent, talk versus music.

1744             The consumers' interests lie in having a station that does not approach programming from these all‑or‑nothing angles.  They want something from each of these polarities, and a balance that better reflects their tastes, so we worked through a design with these consumers, and the net result was ALICE.

1745             It is a Triple A service.  This means a more expansive music mix that results in not just more artists, but more genres of music, a balance between current, recurrent and gold selections, and a wider representation of the repertoires of the musicians being played.

1746             The other important programming element was spoken word.  Women, in particular, had concerns over what they were hearing, and how they and others were being represented, and how the market was being reflected.

1747             Called into question was the relevance of the topics being discussed, the language chosen, and the basis for humour.  Women felt that minorities, gender and children suffered as a result of the current perspective, and they desired something more respectful.

1748             Specifically, they wanted adult dialogue and coverage of both mature and complex issues that held the potential to include all listeners.

1749             The manner in which topics should be covered ‑‑ seriously, respectfully, and without the goal of shocking or mocking ‑‑ was seen to be lacking in the market.

1750             Finally, they did not want to be marginalized by a woman's‑only format.

1751             Once the re‑design had been completed, the concepts and potential music mix was tested in a phone survey, and the results indicated that 76.4 percent of persons 25 to 54 would listen.

1752             MS HOCHSCHILD:  ALICE is a music station.  At the core of its design has been the consumer demand for greater variety, and the Triple A format, by definition, provides this.

1753             We are going to create greater diversity in music for Ottawa listeners through several means.  First, we will offer in this one station a greater range of music than is typically found on single‑format services.

1754             We will draw from a minimum of five music genres.  We will include genres not currently regularly heard on commercial radio.

1755             In addition to alternative, rock, pop and country, we will play music from the folk and blues categories.

1756             We will have a larger playlist.  According to BDS, the average English service in Ottawa has a playlist of 1,100 tracks.  ALICE will play 1,400.

1757             Contributing to this larger playlist will be a greater range of artists.  According to the same BDS study, the average playlist in Ottawa has 500 artists, while ALICE will have 700.

1758             We will also go deeper into artists' repertoires, providing fans with greater access to non‑hit music.  This alternative track representation is at the heart of the Triple A format.

1759             ALICE will have fewer repeats on any single track.  In Ottawa, the top 10 percent of the artists played represents 63 percent of the music spun.  The average spin on a top 10 track is 40.  On ALICE, a track will not receive more than 15 spins during a week.

1760             ALICE will also offer a more even balance between current and older eras of music.  Listeners complained that the repeat factor on pop stations is too high, and gold‑based stations have too little current, so ALICE will program one‑third of its playlist to current music, and the remainder will be to alternative and gold‑based cuts from pre‑2007.

1761             The listeners who are most unhappy with the current environment are also those most passionate about their music.  ALICE will feed this passion with less commercial interruption and more music.  We will offer shorter commercial breaks and reduced commercial content overall.

1762             A good portion of our spoken word will be music related, and we will provide background on the artists we play in our feature programming and in our Canadian showcase segment.

1763             ALICE, by request of the consumers with whom we spoke, will also have a higher representation of Canadian artists, and, if licensed, will be the service with the highest commitment to new and emerging artists in the market.

1764             If ALICE were licensed today, a single hour's music mix could include a track from the new "Death Cab for Cutie" album; a song performed live in 1985 by Bonnie Raitt and John Prine; "Cold Shoulder" from U.K. soul sensation Adele, who just got signed in North America several weeks ago; something from Bedouin Soundclash's debut; and three in a row from hometown heroine Kathleen Edwards, going back to her 2002 breakthrough for "Hockey Skates", and including the brand new songs "Buffalo" and "I Make the Dough, You Get the Glory".

1765             When we compare the proposed playlist for ALICE with what was being played in the market over the past four weeks, we find that 85 percent is currently not heard.  With a very small proportion of the music duplicated anywhere in the current spectrum, ALICE will provide a true music option for the disenfranchised music lover in the market.

1766             MS LAURIGNANO:  Music is only half the picture, however.  In response to consumer demand, ALICE has made a substantial commitment to spoken word, including news, information programming, features and announcer talk.  ALICE will provide listeners with over 34 hours of spoken word weekly.

1767             This represents a minimum commitment of over 27 percent of our schedule to keeping Ottawa informed, as well as entertained.

1768             ALICE's potential audience has noted that there has been a move toward shocking language in spoken word that challenges political correctness.  Their impression is that there is also a focus on the trivial and, in the words of our audience, the inane.

1769             While we agree that there is certainly a place for this, given the taste for edgy language, celebrity gossip and challenging the status quo, the appetite for this style of radio is not universally held by the fans of today's music.

1770             ALICE will offer more respectful language, and balanced, polite and more thorough discussion than is typically found on music radio.

1771             The ALICE listener wants the best of all worlds:  they want talk that they describe as relevant; they want music that they would choose to buy.

1772             They no longer feel like scanning through the radio dial, trying to create this listening experience by tuning intermittently to several services, so they are tuning out.

1773             ALICE can bring them back by mixing current, popular, energized music, with respectful, balanced and issue‑based spoken word.  We can provide useful information and background, while engaging them in today's recording artists and a greater variety of music from established and new performers.

1774             ALICE will focus spoken word on the topics that are of greatest interest to people ages 35 to 54.  Background on music and artists, and insights into production are very important to the passionate music fan.

1775             However, there was also an interest in other types of information.  Topics for discussion that were recommended include families and children, health and fitness, relationships and lifestyle, finances and fashion, travel and shopping, and primary and secondary careers.

1776             ALICE will marry these two compatible information streams, music and more general interest topics, to create a hybrid that provides intelligent, relevant, and local discussion.

1777             MR. EVANOV:  Key to ALICE's identity will be her local focus.  We will approach the coverage of the Ottawa market from a different perspective, one that is unique to ALICE.

1778             We will have a full complement of Ottawa‑based reporters, and estimate that 80 percent of our news coverage will be local based.

1779             While the headlines most often will not change, ALICE will present stories from a feminine perspective, and there is a decided difference.

1780             For example, one of the biggest headlines thus far this week has been the devastating loss of life due to the earthquake in China.  The key facts of what happened would be presented in the ALICE coverage, but we would also augment the story with details of the local fundraising efforts by the Chinese Community Association of Ottawa.

1781             We would profile the impact that this tragedy is having on local residents, such as Emily Wang.  Her family is living in one of the areas devastated by the quake.  While they are all fine, they have taken refuge in tents, and are now battling rain.

1782             Emily is one of the fundraisers engaged in finding constructive ways to handle her grief and worry, and ALICE would present this local and important aspect of the headline.

1783             The feminine perspective will also be evident in the stories selected.  The Ottawa Police will be holding its monthly recruiting session tonight.  While this is not necessarily a headline, the fact that the Police is actively seeking female recruits and hold women‑only information sessions on a regular basis is.

1784             The representation of women on the force, in combination with the challenges in finding female recruits, is a story of interest to ALICE listeners.

1785             In addition to expanding the coverage of stories and the perspective on headlines, ALICE will also provide more follow‑up on news stories through its information programming.

1786             Last week, Maria Merziotis from Hillcrest High School, here in Ottawa, won the BioTalent Challenge for flu glue.  While this made headlines across the city, ALICE would expand on this story in two ways.  Within the newscast we would give more details of the next steps in getting this product to market through an interview with a medical researcher from Ottawa U, and within the spoken word portion of our program we would have more in‑depth information on how it was discovered and who this remarkable 17‑year‑old is.

1787             ALICE will introduce a new group of reporters, resulting in a fresh voice, a new perspective, and alternative coverage of the Ottawa market.

1788             MS JOSEPH:  Now that we have told you why ALICE, let me review why licensing ALICE is necessary to Ottawa Media Inc.

1789             In 2004 the proposal for The Jewel was designed to meet an underserved segment of the population and provide service to a group largely ignored by mainstream media.  To the extent that satisfaction levels have increased among those aged 55‑plus since the licensing of The Jewel, the service has performed as promised.  However, the signal we applied for was the full market coverage of the 88.5 frequency.  The frequency we were assigned, 98.5, does not encompass the full market.

1790             As if this is not challenging enough, due to the issues of signal protection on either side of 98.5, we operate at 485 watts, while our competitors operate at powers of up to 100,000 watts.

1791             With reduced coverage and ineffective radiating power, The Jewel's ability to reach its audience is severely and permanently impaired.

1792             Simply put, a 485‑watt signal cannot penetrate brick and steel buildings, and 98.5 will never be able to cover the entire CMA.

1793             Radio works best when it can travel with a listener throughout his or her day.  From waking in the morning to the commute to and from work, and even while at work, consumers value the constancy that radio provides.  For many, The Jewel can never be this.

1794             Someone living in Kanata or Orleans cannot necessarily receive The Jewel at home.  People who work and/or live in the densely populated towers downtown cannot receive the station during the day, and someone travelling in a car across the city experiences periods where the signal simply disappears.

1795             This means that sustained tuning is not possible, and feedback from the programming focus groups for The Jewel confirmed that listeners like the format, but find the station's reception too unreliable to identify it as their primary service.

1796             While our recent shares have improved, if you look beyond the 12‑plus number, you will find that most of that tuning comes from the 60‑plus audience.  In fact, 70 percent of hours tuned comes from this group.

1797             These are not the most attractive demographics to many advertisers, and without a better representation of people under 60 years of age, we have not been able to attract many of the advertisers that our original business case for The Jewel contemplated.

1798             This, in turn, has negatively affected our bottom line.  In fact, our revenues are 35 percent lower than originally projected, and The Jewel has incurred cumulative costs that are double those originally forecasted.

1799             Consumer research completed for The Jewel application indicated a more balanced audience, with specific strengths in the 45 to 54 and 55 to 64 age groups.  It was even anticipated that there would be some tuning from persons 35 to 44.  However, despite continuing favourable results from ongoing music tests from within these younger demos, the under‑55 audience has not materialized because of a severely encumbered signal.

1800             If listeners cannot wake up to The Jewel or travel to work with the station, or if tuning is not available where they work, consumers tend to forget about the service.

1801             Advertisers have also noted the challenges of placing advertising on The Jewel.  When we pitch business, the first thing they do is tune in to see what we sound like.  We hear frequently that they cannot receive the signal.  While this may seem to be a highly subjective measure of the potential of The Jewel, it is, in fact, the one that is most commonly used.

1802             If advertisers can't hear their ads, they are not booking us.  This means that a portion of our potential advertising base is effectively unavailable to us.

1803             The licensing of ALICE would provide another revenue stream, reduce expenses through the sharing of some costs, contribute to promotional opportunities for The Jewel, and enhance the demographics that we can sell by adding the younger end of the population.

1804             ALICE's format, while also niche, is at the opposite end of the spectrum musically, and will allow us to address new advertisers and develop new revenues.

1805             MR. EVANOV:  The Jewel and ALICE can nicely co‑exist, developing distinctive audiences and separate unique brands, yet there are synergies that will serve to enhance the success of each.  The primary benefit of ALICE, however, is that she meets a consumer need and reflects a group not represented in all of its diversity in the system.

1806             ALICE is unique.  The niche we have identified serves a market that is important to radio.  People 35 to 64 have traditionally been heavy users of radio, and if their hours are lost to the system, it will have a large impact on the effectiveness of the medium overall, and the advertisers who consider using it.

1807             We have designed a service unique to this market.  Despite already being present in Ottawa‑Gatineau, through a full and completely new team of newspeople, we will offer a fresh perspective and unique voices.

1808             Our music selection will provide true diversity, expanding the genres, the playlists and the artists covered.  ALICE will create an improved exposure for Canadian artists, especially those identified as new and emerging.

1809             ALICE will assist The Jewel, a station that is permanently technically handicapped in terms of future growth.

1810             In short, licensing ALICE will serve two purposes:  it will fill a clear and identifiable gap in the programming spectrum with a local and market‑specific format, and it will assist a struggling incumbent service.

1811             The case for ALICE is undeniable, and our commitment to serve Ottawa unwavering.

1812             Thank you for your time and attention.  We would be pleased to answer any questions you have, and I will allow Carmela Laurignano to quarterback the session.

1813             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Evanov.  Good morning, ladies.

1814             I would like to start with the engineering part of your application.  You have put a lot of content in your oral presentation regarding the impairment of The Jewel, but when you compare the coverage that you have with The Jewel with the one that you would get with the frequency you just applied for, what are the main differences that you see?  Would that frequency be much better for you than the one that The Jewel has?

1815             MS LAURIGNANO:  There are some very distinct differences, but let me begin by saying what The Jewel's problems on 98.5 are, generally speaking, and then I am sure that Mr. Moltner, who is an engineer, can give you more specifics.

1816             The two basic problems with the 98.5 signal are, one, that the signal does not cover geographically the whole CMA.  There is a big portion of it missing.  That is one problem.

1817             Then, within the contour areas which we do reach, because of the low power, which is 485 watts, we can't get satisfactory penetration to deliver a reliable signal.

1818             In comparison, the frequency that we are proposing to use for ALICE has 11,800 watts, which means that there would be a substantial difference.  Also, generally, for the CMA, it has greater coverage.

1819             Those are really the two primary differences.

1820             And unfortunately for The Jewel, as we mentioned, there is no solution because of the limitations that it faces to the east and the west, and other parts, and increasing power is not a solution, because that would infringe on those areas that are protected.

1821             I would ask Mr. Moltner if he has anything to add.

1822             MR. MOLTNER:  I think you have about covered it, Carmela.  I don't know if the Chairman wants me to ‑‑

1823             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I am not looking for more technical detail than you have provided, except to say that in 2004 that frequency was available for the market, but you ended up choosing 98.5 based on some considerations.

1824             Did you feel that it was less impaired at the time?

1825             Because 99.7 was available in 2004.

1826             MS LAURIGNANO:  In 2004, when we applied, we had applied for the use of 88.5.  Then, in its wisdom, the Commission awarded that to NewCap, and this particular ‑‑

1827             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And you had to find another ‑‑

1828             MS LAURIGNANO:  No, this frequency was already ‑‑ we had applied for it for a secondary service, which was for a youth format.  In fact, we had presented the Commission with two proposals at the time.  We had 88.5 as the service for the easy‑listening format, and we had proposed a youth alternative rock format, I believe, at the time, because it was a smaller signal, and because we thought we could do a little better with that format on this limited frequency.

1829             We had identified that at the time, and we did not go further at the time in terms of frequencies.

1830             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.  Thank you.

1831             Let's talk about ALICE.  Obviously, I understand from your presentation that now we have BOB, JACK and DAVE, and they are heard, in some instances, all over North America, and in other instances they are only available here in Canada.

1832             Is ALICE, per se, a format that is available anywhere else, or are you going to be creating ALICE and will you try to market it elsewhere down the road?

1833             MS LAURIGNANO:  ALICE, as we propose, is not available anywhere that we know of.

1834             We know that there are female‑friendly, female‑skewed stations, but this is another set of consumers that we have identified.

1835             Certainly, the indications are ‑‑ and I will ask Ms McLaughlin to impart some of her wisdom, because she has a vast repertoire of research right across the country, and world‑wide, about what the trends are, but there certainly seems to be a demand, which is also evidenced by the number of applications that you will see for this format, in what we know already have been Gazetted, as well as, probably, in upcoming hearings.

1836             There is an evolution taking place, where this particular group is becoming in demand for advertising, because it is within a lucrative demographic, and I think that it's been identified as one that will embrace radio again if they have been disenfranchised and will tune in longer or even find this kind of programming if it's available to them.

1837             But I am going to ask Debra to see if she has some research background that can support what I have just said.

1838             MS MacLAUGHLIN:  The tuning trends in Ottawa‑Gatineau are not dissimilar to the trends that you find either nationally or in other markets.  In fact, in the recent Vancouver hearings there were several applicants there that were looking to create a service that spoke to the disenfranchised female listener.

1839             It's not to suggest that radio is not serving any female listeners.  There is a core of female listeners who like what they hear, the easy rocks, the softer music.  But there is a whole group that fall out of that spectrum currently.  They are the people who are secondarily an audience for rock stations and stations that skew to alternative music whether it's modern rock, alternative rock or whether it's just classic rock, and that's simply because they can't find the more progressive energy levels anywhere else on the spectrum.

1840             As we said in our presentation and in our filed documentation, part of what makes listening to those stations not an option for them is the entire slant of the programming including spoken word is actually directed to a more male audience, references ‑‑

1841             THE CHAIRPERSON:  But in the written submission you have identified them as being the listeners of the progressive and underground radio format of the late sixties who were really at the time skewed highly male.  Living in Montreal, CHOM FM surely ‑‑ during the days of that period of time was surely a male radio format, maybe.

1842             But what you are saying is that obviously there were some females listening to it and they are still interested by that music and they want it to be more tailored towards them and with obviously an oral content that is more in tune with their own profile.

1843             MS MacLAUGHLIN:  Yes, you know, that's exactly right because in the sixties ‑‑ I mean, women's roles have certainly evolved since then.  It was slightly different.  Now, you have women in the workforce.  You have women who are in all sorts of senior positions.  Those are different women than the women who were listening underground.  In fact, there is a larger number of them now.

1844             And as our presentation said, many of the people on this panel are not stereotypical female radio listeners.  We are the people listening to the rock stations and then having to skip out when we get to the usual discussion parts, that I won't go into detail on but are offensive.

1845             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And generally speaking, the radio format that is catering to that period is classic rock.  What you are saying here is that classic rock format; the current classic rock format doesn't meet their need?

1846             MS MacLAUGHLIN:  It doesn't meet their need because classic rock in some ways provides that edgier sound.

1847             But the internet hasn't just changed the way people use radio.  It's changed their expectations of what they should have from radio and these people are online.  They are finding other sources of music and they are investigating new artists, new tracks.  And as a result their demands and expectations have changed so classic rock doesn't cover it entirely.

1848             What they are looking for is a balance of new music, of older music and they also want alternative cuts.  So it's just not the gold base that you would find on classic rock.  That has too much repetition for them.

1849             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, you have used in your research ‑‑ and CFUL‑FM from Calgary has a proxy.  At least that's what is stated ‑‑ and Calgary as well.  You use Calgary and CFUL as a proxy, I think, for good reason.  Calgary has about the same level of population.  It's at the top of page 3 of your written submission.

‑‑‑ Pause

1850             THE CHAIRPERSON:  You are saying:

1851                  "...by comparing the performance of popular formats with that of Triple A using CFUL in Calgary as a proxy."  (As read)

1852             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, I have been looking and that is interesting, but it is slowly moving me to your business plan.  Obviously, CFUL has not been on air for a long period of time. But when I am comparing the market share and the reach of CFUL in their last survey compared with your own marketing plan and the market share that you are contemplating, there are huge, huge differences.

1853             Why, if you say that you are using Calgary and CFUL as a proxy, are you arriving at so steep differences?

1854             MS MacLAUGHLIN:  The use of CFUL when it was a pure Triple A format was just to demonstrate the difference between the formats and how they play music, whether they have a higher or a lower repeat factor.  In fact, the Triple A from Calgary is a limited proxy and only for those purposes because that station skews as many Triple As do strictly to men.  So there is a much lower percentage of the audience that would be listening as women.

1855             In Ottawa we did quite a bit of research that has been ongoing.  I was in the market as recent as last week and I remain confident that the way in which we were proposing to represent the Triple A format, and that is in a different form with more emphasis towards women, will garner the shares that we put forward.

1856             But the shares again of Calgary are reflective of a Triple A format in a market that they have set up to be a largely male‑dominated station.

1857             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And why do you think here in Ottawa you will cater more to women rather than male?

1858             MS LAURIGNANO:  Okay.  We expect that the audience will be 60‑40 female versus male.

1859             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.

1860             MS LAURIGNANO:  And that will be achieved basically through the spoken word that we have talked about and the sensibilities and the perspective of the women, which is going to be predominant but it's not to the exclusion of males.  We are not ‑‑ you know we don't intend to on purpose, by design or by accident or any other way alienate men.

1861             And in fact, the men in the survey, both in the focus groups and consumer demand by phone that we did there is a good percentage, and a large number of men up to 40 percent who would also listen to the station.

1862             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I'm sure that you will not forbid them to do that.  But as you are saying, you are of the view that ‑‑ is it because of the oral component that you are going to be drawing more attention to females than males or is it by the music?

1863             MS LAURIGNANO:  It's a combination of both and it's really a carefully‑crafted recipe because the music is both new ‑‑ you know there is a demand for new music.  There is a demand for a wide variety of music.  We have identified like five key genres of music that will be blended. And the spoken word which is heavy is also important.  So it's a whole package really.

1864             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, obviously with up to 37 percent of the time dedicated to a verbal component it is a significant commitment.

1865             MS LAURIGNANO:  Yes, 27 percent, that's right.

1866             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Is it ‑‑

1867             MS LAURIGNANO:  27, yes, of 34 hours a week or 27 percent.

1868             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I thought they had written here 37, but anyhow.

1869             MS LAURIGNANO:  If we did ‑‑

1870             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I will take it for what you said.

1871             MS LAURIGNANO:  Yes, if we did it's a typo.  It is 27.

1872             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.

1873             MS LAURIGNANO:  Because we have 16 hours and 40 minutes of news and then another 17 hours and, I think, 28 minutes of spoken ‑‑

1874             THE CHAIRPERSON:  While you were ‑‑ well, while you were reading it struck me.  Anyhow, 27 percent is also ‑‑

1875             MS LAURIGNANO:  It's substantial. Absolutely, we agree.

1876             THE CHAIRPERSON:  It is also a significant commitment.

1877             MS LAURIGNANO:  Yes.

1878             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Whatever you had said before, if you had said 27 obviously it is 27.  But what you are saying it's a base on having up to 27 percent of verbal component.

1879             And what is going to be the breakdown between ‑‑ and what type of content could we expect of that station?

1880             MS LAURIGNANO:  Of the spoken word?

1881             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, the spoken word.

1882             MS LAURIGNANO:  Right, okay.

1883             The spoken word as we have said it's 27 percent of the whole schedule of the regular broadcast day, which is out of the 126 hours about 34 hours.  Of that 16 hours and 40 minutes are news programs which are in the form of five, seven and 10‑minute newscasts as well as a comprehensive news package at noon every single day.  And then the other 17 hours would be the programming, some programming features as well as the announcer talk that will fill in the rest of it.

1884             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And of your 16 hours and 40 minutes of news how much of it will be what I could qualify pure news and what is going to be the breakdown between local, regional, provincial, national and international?

1885             MS LAURIGNANO:  Okay.  The way it breaks down is some of the newscasts that I have described, the five, seven and 10‑minute newscasts, some of them will include some surveillance and sports and others will not because the surveillance and the sports and other are covered through that other talk.  So we expect that about 80 percent or 13 ‑‑ just over 13 hours of that 16 and a half roughly will be news.

1886             The breakdown in content we expect on an average that it will be at least 60 percent local, 20 percent national and 20 percent international.

1887             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And what kinds of staff will you have to do news, to collect news and broadcast and will you have reporters, stringers?  What are you contemplating and will they be working with your current news staff at the Jewel?

1888             MS LAURIGNANO:  ALICE will have its own separate news team.  Sean Moreman will guide us through what the staffing is, but the news will be gathered through a combination of ongoing services such as BN of course and other services that are available.  They will be done by the complement of the staff as well as the access that the community will have to get in touch with the station.

1889             We have an extremely aggressive internet strategy that will encourage, you know, news that may be relevant to be fed into the station that the news department and programming people will vet and eventually might make it through the station.  But Sean will just guide us what the newsroom will look like.

1890             And the station will have its own news director as well.

1891             MR. MOREMAN:  So just to reiterate that the newsroom will be independent from the newsroom at the Jewel and will be separate.

1892             We anticipate that the news director that Carmela has just mentioned will also read the morning news and there will also be an afternoon newsreader.  We are also going to have three stringers that will gather the news throughout Ottawa and the region.

1893             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And you are of the view that that will be enough people to feed the news for ‑‑ that amount of news over ‑‑ you will have news on everyday including the weekends, am I right?

1894             MS LAURIGNANO:  Yes.  So the newsroom will have five people that are working all the time in the newsroom throughout the week, but some of those big programs that I have talked about in the comprehensive package at 12 o'clock will be fed through the news ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ through that programming department will be put together by some of the programming people as well.

1895             And a lot of the information that for example is related to music, which is a very important topic and is part of the news coverage, that is covered through the talk or even in the newscast will also come from their programming so the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive in terms of production packaging and putting it together.  But the newsroom will have five people working on it.

1896             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, the other component of your spoken word will be made up of features of interviews, any open lines or what?

1897             MS LAURIGNANO:  Yes, there is ‑‑ do you want to walk through this?

1898             MS HOCHSCHILD:  Sure.  As for call‑in shows, that was tested to have details on that ‑‑ was tested among other features through focus groups and there we found very little demand for that kind of a feature.  As for the demand we have received from those females 35 to 54 we are intending on reaching, we found that they want to know more about Canadian artists.

1899             So we have something like Canadian Spotlight which is our 60 to 90‑second bit six times a day about artists and their creative process; stories or songs leading into a song by that artist, and also Notes From Home Saturdays and Wednesdays which goes into greater detail, kind of taking the approach of a journal or a blog so it's free to include interviews, analysis of trends, different themes of focus from show to show.

1900             The listeners also stated that they wanted a wide variety of styles.  And while that is being addressed during the course of the broadcast day in a broadcast week by the format itself, in terms of feature programming we have something like Showcase on the weekends which is dedicated each week to music of one genre or era or theme.  It can go from Motown to Reggae to other forms of world music to Lilith Fair artists or boy bands or anything pretty much in response to listener feedback.

1901             So while this also helps, you know, the listener unwind on the weekend by kind of settling into one kind of a concept of music, it also serves as a testing ground for possible styles that listeners may want more of during the week or may want to be explored in more detail.

1902             So in terms of music those are the features that we are presenting and they all started with what these under‑represented listeners want to have to get back into the market.

1903             MS LAURIGNANO:  In addition, there are other things.  One of the biggest things that came out was that this audience is looking for humour of a different brand than the BOBs and the JACKs and those, and some of that programming will be around that.  That's obviously spoken word programs.

1904             But to answer your question directly before, there is no open line programming per se.  But we certainly include and encourage interaction and feedback both through the internet, through other means and on air itself, in which case you know we would be sure that the comments are either pre‑recorded or that we work on a delay system to ensure that we are always in control.

1905             THE CHAIRPERSON:  In your written submission you are referring to a joke of the day where more humour was required especially at ‑‑ the respondents felt more humour was required especially at this time and then you are talking about the routine joke of the day.

1906             That being said, you also are saying that through your surveys you heard a lot of complaints about frat boy humour; boring, intellectually numbing.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

1907             THE CHAIRPERSON:  How will you differentiate between what you call the need for more defined humour vis‑à‑vis what the audience is saying about what is their view about humour?

1908             MS LAURIGNANO:  Right.  Well, again, it's a combination of things.  One of them is a perspective.

1909             I think we are ‑‑ women and men are wired a little bit differently in some areas of the humour department so we will try to bring you know that forth.  I think we know as well that where it is coming from is very important, that if a female is delivering it versus some male in the locker room that's a different perspective all together.  And quite frankly, it's also one of the things that we are looking forward to.

1910             It's a challenge because it's not readily available and it's going to require that we be vigilant and creative.  Obviously, we have identified some areas already where we can get even established sources.  There are syndicated services that we have identified that could possibly help, you know, just in small little contents or whether it's recorded that can be put together.

1911             And then quite frankly we are going to go out and seek a lot of it.  We have some strategic partnerships with institutions like Yuk Yuks already established that we intend to tap into and, you know, we will find a way to bring that humour on the air.

1912             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Humour such as that I found in your oral presentation.  Well, the thing here is, "He makes the dough.  You get the glory"?

1913             MS LAURIGNANO:  The glory.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

1914             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I wrote "Besides Bill".

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

1915             MS LAURIGNANO:  I think that's universal humour, Mr. Chairman.

1916             THE CHAIRPERSON:  While we were talking about news you said you are going to be doing some internet newsgathering.  How will you make sure that the information that is sent to you is appropriate and correct and true?

1917             MS LAURIGNANO:  Right.

1918             THE CHAIRPERSON:  What kinds of steps will you have to put in place to make sure that before putting it on air it is validated?

1919             MS LAURIGNANO:  Right.  Well, what we will do is ‑‑ to start with when the service ‑‑ before the service launches if we are lucky enough to have it, we would actually you know solicit and make contact with key organizations who are involved in women's groups and other organizations whether they be social, community, cultural organizations, to let them know that this venue is available to them and how to get the information to us.

1920             So we would do that initial step so when somebody comes back we would be able to recognize if it's a legitimate thing or not, including developing contacts, the people and all that.

1921             Second to that we will use the internet itself.  We will have a dedicated page to say ‑‑ you know encourage them to submit their news and provide a contact.  So that there would have to be a person submitted their phone numbers so that the news director and/or somebody from programming or the news reporter would be able to actually verify that.

1922             We would not arbitrarily just take anybody's word for it or anything like that, so all inquiries would be vetted whether through some preliminary steps or through you know subsequent steps.

1923             THE CHAIRPERSON:  In looking into your Canadian content development program we ended up having some questions regarding the support you ‑‑ the student supports that you intended to do through the Algonquin College broadcast radio program.

1924             Could you expand on what you ‑‑ and say to us what you are really planning to do to make sure that ‑‑ we want to make sure that it really complies with the definition of CCD.

1925             MS LAURIGNANO:  Right.  Okay, I will ask Sean to just give you an overview of the criteria that we employed in determining it and why we felt it qualified at the time.

1926             MR. MOREMAN:  Well, Algonquin College is a provincially‑regulated institution so it qualifies certainly on that front.  The program that we are aiming the money at is their radio broadcast program, that we believe that there is a journalism component in there.  On that front it would qualify in our opinion as a journalism scholarship.

1927             I believe the Commissioner's question is probably that it's a broadcasting program which on paper at least is disqualified, but we could ask Algonquin to focus the monies to people into the journalism program if that is amenable to the Commission.  Otherwise, we would be prepared to split the money to Algonquin between the University of Ottawa and Carleton.

1928             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Could you get a letter from Algonquin College and file it as soon as you can with the Commission ‑‑

1929             MR. MOREMAN:  Yes, we ‑‑

1930             THE CHAIRPERSON:  ‑‑ based on the reply you just gave me?

1931             MR. MOREMAN:  We will attempt to do that and depending what the answer that comes back then we will ‑‑

1932             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, obviously, yes.

1933             MR. MOREMAN:  ‑‑ let you know whether we are going to split or whether ‑‑

1934             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I am sure the registrar of the college will welcome an opportunity to get bursaries for students.  So the likelihood that they say no to send you a letter ‑‑ well, maybe.  You never know but I'm just saying, having given money before in another previous life it was easy to convince the registrar of an institution to get such a letter because they are always looking for funds.

1935             I might appear to come back to what we have previously discussed regarding your business plan but it has to do with the market and the competition in the market.

1936             There is some overlap between your format and what other stations in the market are currently doing.  I'm thinking about CHEZ; I'm thinking about Majic, BOB and so ‑‑ and BOB‑FM.

1937             What are the differentiating factors between your own, this application and what those broadcasters are currently doing?

1938             MS LAURIGNANO:  I think we will approach it from a research perspective first which is ‑‑

1939             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Absolutely.

1940             MS LAURIGNANO:  ‑‑ one of the key things that we considered in the business plan.

1941             MS MacLAUGHLIN:  I am sorry.  I just have to ask you to repeat the question because I was looking ahead to the answer for something else.

1942             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Okay.

1943             Well, what I'm saying is that currently Majic, CHEZ‑FM and BOB‑FM are already broadcasting some of the music that you are currently planning to do and I am asking you what are the differentiating factors between these stations and the one that you are proposing regarding the music component of your program?  Obviously, I can understand that the spoken word will be aimed mainly or somehow totally towards the women, which is not necessarily the case of all these stations.

1944             MS MacLAUGHLIN:  We did run a duplication analysis against our proposed playlist and the stations that you mentioned and we found very low levels of duplication.  I guess thematically I can see why you would conclude we are sort of going down the same path in terms of programming but the proposed list that we have is much higher in alternative cuts and it covers more genres.

1945             And I will ask Val to describe that but we didn't find anymore than 15 percent duplication.

1946             MS HOCHSCHILD:  Exactly, in running this and we mentioned earlier about approximately 15 percent duplication.

1947             Breaking that down a little bit I actually ‑‑ I actually checked and you are right in bringing up the stations that you have brought up.  But as far as duplication is concerned we found only a 4 percent duplication with BOB, a 4 percent duplication with Majic, a 3 percent duplication with Kiss and a 5 percent duplication with Live.  And they are the standouts and we are still well in single digits.

1948             I think that is because the nature of the Triple A format, which has its genesis in the progressive format from back in the day that you described earlier that we noted in the supplementary brief, it starts ‑‑ what really takes from that sort of format that you are remembering is the idea of alternate tracks, of going deeper into a band and artist catalogue whether it's now or from a little less recently and just expanding the tracks that are available to the listener because that is what they asked for, and also going into different genres which do incorporate pieces of the genres that are represented by the stations that you have noted but obviously to only a fairly miniscule extent.

1949             So I think those are the ways in which, in terms of exclusivity, we are distinguishing ourselves and it is actually very marked against the market.

1950             MS LAURIGNANO:  In fact there is no doubt that there is artist duplication, but when you actually come to the selections, the actual selection, they will be substantially different because this one is a non‑hit driven format because we are not just playing the covers.  It's a mix of the five music genres and it's not music that is stuck in one particular era that a lot of it will be current as well as some of it gold.

1951             So when the whole package is together the duplication overall that we found was only about 15 percent which ‑‑ again, when you spread it over a wide number of stations and over a broadcast week is really negligible.

1952             THE CHAIRPERSON:  There are other applicants in this proceeding that have not necessarily the same format but a fairly similar format, or fairly similar choice of music and are catering towards the same demographic.

1953             How do you differentiate yourself from the other applicants?

1954             MS LAURIGNANO:  Well, we differ in those areas that we've just talked about.

1955             But, for example, if I'm looking at, you know, Eve which is what Astral is proposing, whereas as I said, we looked at our duplication and we expect 15 per cent duplication.  When we compared their music list with what is currently in the market, we found that 86 per cent is duplicated.

1956             Then again the spoken word component, you know, because you have to look at the whole package, we're proposing for example 16 hours and 40 minutes of news, in their thing, they're 90 minutes a week, so there's a substantial difference there.

1957             And then another big difference that we noted, for example, with Astral is that they committed to 42 hours of local programming in a week and they confirm that in their deficiency as well, so that the other hours other than those 42 would not be local; wherein in our case we're a hundred per cent local.

1958             So, that's really the broad strokes of the difference.

1959             MS HOCHSCHILD:  If I can add one more stroke in terms of music.  Comparisons are inevitable with the Astral application in terms of the demo on paper and at least the idea of a mature lifestyle oriented spoken word to appeal to this demo, but really the comparison ends there.

1960             They're programming music that's ‑‑ they're hit driven many before the year 2000, but particularly soft in feel.  Their identifying term for Eve is comfort radio.

1961             And I think as evidenced by the exclusivity numbers, we think that the demographic females 35‑54 who want to be comforted in that way seem to be fairly well served in this market already and that's why we found Eve with 86 per cent duplication.

1962             We would rather engage the females 35‑54 with this mix of music and the elements that they have told us that they want that will bring them back to this market.

1963             So, we're serving as a counter point to the women's programming, programming for women that exists in this market right now, that Eve is actually a little bit closer to.

1964             THE CHAIRPERSON:  And when you compare yourself with the application by Mark Maheu...?

1965             MS HOCHSCHILD:  In terms of the project Capital ‑‑

1966             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.

1967             MS HOCHSCHILD:  ‑‑ in the application.

1968             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Capital Radio, yes.

1969             MS HOCHSCHILD:  They're going for a younger and narrower core demo of 23‑35.  The skew is only slightly female and they're appealing to them with a mix of pop, alternative and urban, very hit based and from various eras with a little less current than could be expected.

1970             That's what we found in the Maheu application.

1971             THE CHAIRPERSON:  If the Commission was to use the two frequencies available to grant the licences, how many new English FM radio stations do you think the market will support?

1972             MS LAURIGNANO:  That's the million dollar question.

1973             Well, we ‑‑

1974             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I will guess, including yours.

1975             MS LAURIGNANO:  Of course.  As long as we're included ‑‑ no, I'm just...

1976             You know, really we think that the market is healthy enough to sustain as many as in your wisdom you want to award.  It's a healthy market.  I think that the biggest problem is, you know, the tightness on the spectrum and not the market itself.

1977             It is growing, there is, you know, housing starts and all kinds of, you know, good economic indicators that usually are good for our industry.

1978             So, we have no concerns about, you know, the economic impact of whether you licence one or two in the English side.

1979             MR. EVANOV:  The only thing I would add is as long as the format doesn't duplicate what we ourselves would be doing if we were licensed on 99.7, and particularly the Jewel, because we're sitting there with 480 watts versus 10,000, 50,000 watts and if Eve is licensed there's a major duplication on the Jewel.

1980             And, so, as long as it doesn't infringe and threaten the survival of that particular station, we would not be concerned.

1981             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, my last question has to do with the issue of third adjacent frequency and your own awareness of the issues that have been raised already by the various interveners or those who are currently operating radio stations in this market who are concerned about third adjacent.

1982             I am only asking you if you are well aware of the rules that Industry Canada, not only the ones that are in the current broadcast procedures, but the ones that they are currently looking at.

1983             So, in the eventuality that there was to be any impairment, you will have the responsibility to make all the necessary corrections.

1984             Only for the record I want to hear you saying what you want to say.

1985             MS LAURIGNANO:  Yes.  For the record, of course, we would, you know, cooperate and do our part.  If we could be part of any solution, recognizing, as I've just said, how tight the spectrum is and, you know, how we have to work together and if it's good for the industry, you know, that's okay.

1986             We certainly would be prepared to, you know, work with whatever and resolve to the best of our ability what we could.

1987             To that end, I might say that we met with CHRI just before because we understand that, you know, co‑location with either 98.5 or the frequency that we're proposing might solve some of their problems on their current situation and we have, you know, a standing offer for them that, you know, when they're ready and if they want we would be more than willing to co‑locate with them to help them along.

1988             THE CHAIRPERSON:  I will ask Commissioner Katz for any questions.

1989             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I just have one question, and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here.

1990             On page 18 of your remarks this morning you spoke to the Chairman earlier about the situation with the Jewel.

1991             You state in the last paragraph:

                      "ALICE will assist the Jewel, a station that is permanently technically handicapped in terms of future growth."  (As read)

1992             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  Now, we heard from an advertising perspective the market is vibrant, I guess we have heard you say you can't reach that market.

1993             I would have thought that there would be some synergies here that would allow you to offset some costs since what you are saying is you can't grow, and in the paragraph right above you are talking about a new news team, a revitalization of people and infrastructure.

1994             MS LAURIGNANO:  Mm‑hmm.

1995             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I'm not sure how being awarded a licence for ALICE will necessarily help the Jewel if you are telling me the Jewel had been closed from a perspective of reach and audience.

1996             MS LAURIGNANO:  Right.  Okay, just to put it in simple terms from my perspective is, of the two ALICE will be the bigger sister, so, because of the better power that it has, even though the signal is still not, you know, equivalent to some of the other incumbents in the market, it is a smaller signal, because we will be able to put a lot of power out it will penetrate the area that it says it will because of the 11,800 watts versus the 485.

1997             So, that business plan is a lot more solid and we're very confident that we will deliver that because the Jewel has the dual problem; one, that the signal itself doesn't extend and then where the signal is it's not reliable because of the power.

1998             So, the synergies are definitely there and they will benefit to Jewel absolutely.  So, they're not reflected in the ALICE business model, but because we have a building already there, because we have some other infrastructure, it will help the Jewel meet its obligations and cut those losses or catch up, you know, as we go along.

1999             We have no question about that.

2000             And one other way that we're going to be doing this, we're going to be maximizing it from the sales end, from the revenue, not just is there a cost savings because of the synergies such as, you know, the studio location and that kind of thing, but in the sales there's going to be a substantial difference in how the Jewel will be affected.

2001             So, if you don't mind, I'm just going to ask Ky to elaborate just very briefly on that, how we see that happening.

2002             MS JOSEPH:  Thank you.

2003             In fact ALICE is crucial to the Jewel at this particular point.  From an advertiser point of view, we're very familiar with the advertiser demand in this market and the opportunity.  We have five sales reps out on the streets right now predominantly selling local advertising.  Out of the last hundred that we visited, specifically also talking about one going in and trying to sell the Jewel and also applying for this frequency at the same time, there were about 30 per cent of the advertisers who said, you know what, the Jewel sounds really interesting, let me listen and they couldn't hear it.

2004             Or, for example, a very specific occurrence happened with Carpet One in Kanata, Kanata Flooring.  They wouldn't buy the Jewel because they couldn't hear the station.  And, as a result, their store in Orleans didn't buy us because Orleans and Kanata split their advertising budget and they needed the efficiencies of targeting two different ‑‑ using that advertising budget to offset their costs over the two stores.

2005             Inter‑Health Laser Clinic, their ‑‑

2006             COMMISSIONER KATZ:  I'm still missing something here.  How will having a licence for ALICE and being able to sell advertising on ALICE help you increase your revenues on the Jewel?

2007             Carpet One in Kanata is still not going to want to broadcast on the Jewel because it can't, is what you are saying.

2008             MS JOSEPH:  Well, actually the comboing effort that we have mentioned in our application, we're in a sea of big boys here in this Ottawa market and they have an opportunity to combo with discounting based on buying a number of radio stations and we don't have that opportunity.

2009             So, certainly that, and this is something that we've researched from a local advertising point of view and that is very crucial to our business plan.

2010             MS LAURIGNANO:  Typically an easy listening format such as Jewel and a reliable signal will draw an audience which is 45 plus and even go as low as 35 plus.

2011             Because of the impairments that we have, we have not been able to attract the lower end of the demographic.  So, the tuning, as we said before, is really very much in the high end, 70 per cent of hours tuned for the Jewel right now are in the 60 plus category.

2012             This format here through the reliable signal and through the uniqueness of the programming will attract the lower of the demographic.  So, we ‑‑ because the core dem was 35‑54, we will be able to attract very good numbers for that demo which we can then combine as a full demo for 35 plus and sell the two stations together.

2013             Plus, the other thing is that it's always great when you can product cross‑promote as well, so that it will be good to remind people that the Jewel is there, both from like an advertiser and even a listener point of view.

2014             MR. EVANOV:  The only thing I'd like to add is right now we're suffering because we're missing budgets because people can't reach ‑‑ hear the signal, but if they can hear the signal of Alice then we're not going to miss that budget.

2015             If we're not going to get it all, we have a chance to get a portion of it and that's the big difference.

2016             In addition, the cost savings at the station in terms of some marketing, administrative and basic rent, studios, engineering, et cetera.

2017             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Legal counsel.

2018             MR. GAGNON:  Thank you.  I would just like to clarify something regarding the percentage of local news.

2019             I think you've indicated that you would have 13 hours of pure news, but in the application it was stated that 50 per cent would be local and in the presentation it's 80 per cent.

2020             MS LAURIGNANO:  Okay.  In the presentation it's a minimum, that's what we've said, but we're ‑‑ it's always a bare minimum over the licence term, but it is our intention and ‑‑ but we're delivering those numbers across all our other properties, so, 60 per cent will be local for this.

2021             MR. GAGNON:  So, it will be 60 per cent?

2022             MS LAURIGNANO:  We can accept 60 per cent, yes.

2023             MR. GAGNON:  Okay.

2024             MS LAURIGNANO:  Or a 50 per cent minimum.

2025             MR. GAGNON:  Okay.  Now, you've undertook to provide a letter from Algonquin College.  Would that be possible to provide it within one week?

2026             MS LAURIGNANO:  We believe so.  We'll try to do it as fast as possible, we'll make the call right away.

2027             MR. GAGNON:  Thank you.

2028             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, thank you very much for your presentation.

2029             We will hear the oral presentation of the next applicant and then we will break for lunch and come back for the interrogatory.

2030             Ms Secretary.

2031             THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2032             So, we will now proceed with Item 8 which is an application by Astral Media Radio Inc. for a licence to operate an English language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Ottawa and Gatineau.

‑‑‑ Pause

2033             THE SECRETARY:  Please introduce yourself and your colleagues and you will then have 20 minutes for your presentation.

2034             Thank you.

PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION

2035             MR. PARISIEN:  Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the Commission and Commission staff.

2036             My name is Jacques Parisien and I am President of Astral Media Radio.  I am particularly pleased to appear before you today to present what we strongly believe is the best proposal for a new FM station in the Ottawa market.

2037             Before we begin our presentation, I would like to introduce our panel.

2038             Starting in the front row on my right is Eric Stafford.  Eric is the Vice‑President and General Manager Ottawa/Pembroke.  He has more than 29 years experience in radio broadcasting and has been with The Bear in Ottawa for over 10 years.  If our application is approved, Eric will become the general manager of Eve‑FM.

2039             To his right is Ross Davies.  Ross is Vice‑President Programming Astral Media Radio GP.

2040             Beside him is Kath Thompson, Assistant Program Director and Music Director of The Bear.  Kath will oversee the programming of Eve‑FM if our application is approved.

2041             To my left is Claude Laflamme, Vice‑President Corporate and Regulatory Affairs at Astral Media Radio.

2042             Next to her is Rob Braide, Vice‑President Branding, Communications and Industry Relations for Astral Media Radio and also Canadian Content Development Coordinator for the group.

2043             On the second row from my left to my right are Julie Charest, Research Director for Astral Media Radio and David Béland, Senior Consultant of CARAT, a media buying agency and research firm that developed our market analysis.

2044             Beside David is Gary Perrin, General Sales Manager of The Bear, Andy Boyd, Vice‑President Finance Astral Media Radio GP and Wally Lennox, Vice‑President Engineering Ontario.

2045             Finally, we are proud to have Sue McGarvie with us today.  Sue is a very experienced therapist and a well‑known broadcaster in the Ottawa market.  She will host our evening show, "Behind Closed Doors".

2046             We will now begin our presentation.

2047             Mr. Chair and Commissioners, as you can see we have assembled a substantial and experienced team.  Each member brings his or her own unique insight to the table and together we represent the expertise and resources that will contribute to Eve‑FM project.

2048             With the acquisition of Standard, Astral now has one English language station in Ottawa and we're keen to increase our presence in this market by providing this exciting new service dedicated to women.

2049             Approval of the Eve‑FM application would allow us to create a more level playing field with those players already in the market with multiple stations.  Astral's goal is still to make the Canadian radio industry more dynamic and very equipped to face the increasing competition from other media and new platforms, while continuing to be the music industry's best ally.

2050             We believe we can achieve these goals because we're passionate about radio and music, we are supporting new Canadian talent in many different ways including through the substantial CCD initiatives we have proposed which are unmatched by any other applicant.

2051             Because we are convinced that radio is, by essence, a local medium, so we are extremely sensitive to the needs and aspirations of our local listeners and we are deeply involved in every community we serve, because we have created a compelling and up‑to‑date radio concept and we have the resources to make it happen.

2052             Astral is indeed a strong and stable broadcaster with sound human and financial resources and is well known for respecting all of its commitments.

2053             Today we introduce you to a very carefully designed radio station called Eve‑FM which reflects our commitment to community involvement and our intimate knowledge of the female audiences.

2054             Our dream is to bring this high quality radio service to the English‑speaking women of Ottawa.

2055             We hope that every woman listening will find a part of herself reflected in the programming of Eve‑FM.

2056             To give you a feeling of the station in a concrete way, we invite you to watch and listen to a short video.

‑‑‑ Video presentation / présentation vidéo

2057             MR. STAFFORD:  Eve‑FM is a brand new radio concept, a unique fusion of relevant spoken word components and soft contemporary music designed to cater to women between the ages of 35 and 64.

2058             Let me start by explaining the process that led to the choice of our format and target audience.

2059             First we took into account today's reality that consumers have lots of other choices to find their particular form of audio entertainment.  We now live in a world where you can find virtually every type of music produced to suit your taste, whether it's your iPod, iPhone, Wi‑Fi, Internet, satellite radio, technology today is changing the way people live and radio needs to change too.

2060             For terrestrial radio to succeed, it needs to acknowledge and embrace this reality.  It needs to take a page out of these audio services and to create compelling and appealing new formats, particularly in a highly competitive market such as Ottawa.

2061             It needs to find innovative ways to use and promote music while developing exclusive high quality spoken word components that will be locally relevant and strongly rooted in this community.

2062             Our market study shows women between 35 and 64 are an important and rapidly growing demographic in the Ottawa central market.  It also demonstrates that their listening is below average compared to Ontario and Canada, indicating that this demographic is not well served by radio offerings here in Ottawa and elsewhere.

2063             This is also a demographic we serve with great success in other markets across the country.  The fit for Astral is perfect.  This is our audience.

2064             Our study demonstrates that women age 35 to 64 are very responsive to the soft music AC format.  They're 51 per cent more likely to listen to this format than the general population.

2065             Finally, our research indicates that most women in this age group have very active lifestyles.  They race to and from work, struggling the demands of careers, couple time, growing children and aging parents.  They're looking for relief, and dominant trends for today's women include the pursuit of physical and psychological comfort, quest for wellness and a search for new ways to simplify her life.

2066             We created and developed Eve‑FM in light of all of this information.  We want it to be unlike any other station in the Ottawa market.

2067             As the map in front of you shows, we believe we've succeeded in achieving this.

2068             Eve‑FM will clearly fill a niche that's not being served by existing radio stations.  It would compliment rather than compete with programming currently available in the Ottawa market.

2069             But Eve‑FM will go well beyond that.  It will not simply be another radio station, it will be an entirely new environmental experience.

2070             Ross and Kath will explain why.

2071             MR. DAVIES:  Thank you, Eric.

2072             Eve‑FM will be the radio equivalent of magazines like "Real Simple" or "Chatelaine" and television shows like "Oprah" and "The View" that have built their success with a lifestyle orientation focused on wellness, family, independence and women exchanging ideas and opinions.

2073             It's now time for radio to catch up and to go beyond and Astral wants to lead the way in that direction.

2074             On the spoken word side, Eve‑FM will offer lifestyle oriented programming integrated throughout the day designed to enrich the lives of women in the Ottawa area.  Our approach will be informative, engaging and affirmative.

2075             From early morning to late night, Eve‑FM will speak directly to women and give them the opportunity to share experiences, views and passions.

2076             The day will start with our innovative morning show, "Breakfast at Eve's", a special blend of music and spoken word where women will be able to get in touch with a wide array of specialists including a nutritionist, an esthetician, a financial advisor, a psychologist or a life coach like Deanna Rutherford to help them deal with their day‑to‑day concerns, to discuss about time management and personal growth or exchange opinions about new films, television shows or books.

2077             And once a week "Breakfast at Eve's" will broadcast live from a mobile studio station where the action is, whether it be the Byward Market, the site of a music festival or a social event, putting Eve face‑to‑face with her audience.

2078             The same kind of features will be integrated into our mid‑day more music oriented show and to our afternoon drive show "Home Sweet Home" which will be designed to help women start to decompress and move towards a more relaxing mood after another busy day.

2079             And the day will close with our evening program, "Behind Closed Doors", which will focus on all kinds of relationships hosted by the well‑known Ottawa therapist and broadcaster Sue McGarvie.

2080             Throughout the entire broadcast week Eve will offer top quality, relevant and concise local, national and international news and also regular coverage and promotion of local events and causes that are important to the daily lives of Ottawa women.

2081             Finally, through our station website, we will provide our audience with free access to all of our specialists and other meaningful information, as well as a community network to gather, exchange and share.

2082             Like a trusted friend, Eve will talk heart‑to‑heart to her listeners.  She will offer women compelling ideas, good sense, good taste and a good time.  She will speak and connect to women in a way that no other radio station ever has.

2083             MS THOMPSON:  Eve‑FM has been designed as an integrated concept where music and the spoken word really blends seamlessly throughout the day to create an environmental audio experience that embraces the expectations of our target audience.

2084             Eve‑FM is going to be about women creating a community through their shared listening experience.  It will be a destination point for women.  It will be soft and warm and friendly and relaxing.  It will be intelligent and caring, sensitive and emotional.  It will soothe the souls of Ottawa women, become their loyal friend and offer them a place to escape.

2085             Our music will be carefully selected to achieve these objectives and to contribute to the mood of the station.  Eve‑FM will be a new and refreshing kind of soft adult station.  Eve will draw her blend of soft music from a wide range of sources from the 1970s right through to the present, and the songs are going to be selected based on the feelings that they evoke, not only on their hit status.  They are going to connect with women.  They will be comforting as well as inspirational.

2086             Our library will be deeper and more extensive than a regular AC station.  The key word in selecting songs will be emotion.

2087             As an example, we may not play the lead single of a newly released album but decide instead to play a few other songs from that album which better suit the spirit of our station, songs that will not otherwise get any airplay in the market.  In doing so, we will increase the diversity of the musical offering while enriching the environmental audio experience that we want to create.

2088             We will feature 40 per cent Canadian music, including new artists, as well as favourite artists with new releases and old favourites.  We will also celebrate Ottawa's multiculturalism with worldbeat music on the weekends, and we will look forward to discovering great emerging Canadian talents and I'm hoping we will especially find some right here in the Ottawa region.

2089             MS McGARVIE:  As a broadcaster, a lifetime resident, a mother, community leader in Ottawa, I am very excited to be associated with Eve‑FM.  As the Past Chair of the Canadian Women in Communications, I know that women have struggled at times to find their own voice in broadcasting.

2090             Eve‑FM is not only a great project but it is a needed project.  It is the kind of radio station that a lot of Ottawa's women are looking for.

2091             I have long thought that women were underserved in this market, especially as it relates to talk.  I believe that women have a need to congregate and to share with each other the trials and celebrations of our lives.  It is my hope that Eve‑FM will be there to rectify this void in the Ottawa radio landscape.

2092             My evening show Behind Closed Doors will be about relationships.  It can be described as romance with a sassy edge, a show for women who appreciate a glass of wine and for whom dust bunnies are part of the family.  We won't be talking about scrap booking, more about love, lust, lipstick, marriage coaching, menopause and why hockey players are sexy.  It is the mystery of relationships, being single again, great loves, dealing with our adolescents and aging parents and how to flirt with lots of laughs and loads of cheek.  It is about why kindness matters, along with great mood music, guest experts, interactive texting and comedians commenting on relationships.

2093             Above all, it is keeping it local, with that overriding sense of community.  Taking calls from Ottawa women about what is going on in their bedrooms, boardrooms, living rooms and any other rooms in their lives is what will make the connections authentic.

2094             Behind Closed Doors is what I describe as chewy, meaning real women, complete with stretch marks, talking to each other in Ottawa.

2095             MS LAFLAMME:  Eve‑FM is committed to being an integral part of the community it will serve.  Eve‑FM will be a distinctive Ottawa radio station providing mostly local live and exclusive programming during the broadcast week.

2096             Eve‑FM will also reflect Ottawa's cultural diversity in its programming, in its workforce and on‑air.  Astral will mandate its Cultural Diversity Committee to identify best practices and to ensure that our staff and on‑air employees represent the diverse communities living in Ottawa.

2097             We will also implement Astral's successful employment equity programs.

2098             With the help of our mobile broadcasting studio and our promotional activities, we will make sure that our listeners are aware and well‑informed about all the local festivals, cultural, philanthropic and social events, including events from the multicultural community.

2099             Local reflection will be an essential element of Eve‑FM's desire to be plugged into the rhythm and fabric of women's lives and to participate in the community as a partner.

2100             With the addition of this new station, Astral will be in a position to improve its already deep involvement in the Ottawa community.  Over the last decade, Astral's Ottawa radio station, The Bear, has raised nearly $2.5 million for important local charities, including The Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario, the Muscular Dystrophy Gala, the Kids Help Phone and United Way.

2101             We were honoured with the Founder's Award for top radiothon in North America by the Children's Miracle Network.  For each dollar raised we have committed an equal value of airtime to support and promote these and many other local charities and social causes in Ottawa.

2102             MR. BRAIDE:  We are extremely proud to offer $6 million in Canadian Content Development initiatives over seven years, which would be an enormous benefit to the artistic community in Ottawa and mostly for young and emerging artists.

2103             Our CCD commitments were specifically designed to be an integral part of our unique and specialized format, to appeal to our listeners' sensibilities and to support their talented daughters, sons, nieces, nephews and friends to whom these initiatives are directed.

2104             We will contribute to Canadian Talent Development in the following ways.

2105             First, we will give FACTOR a total of more than $1.3 million over the seven‑year licence term to assist talented Canadians with support for recording and marketing.

2106             Second, we will spend more than $2.3 million over seven years on an exciting new initiative called "My First NAC", which will discover young Canadian singer/songwriters who have never played in front of more than a hundred people before and give them the opportunity to perform onstage at the National Arts Centre.  This is our marquee initiative.

2107             It will support true Canadian emerging artists while encouraging our listeners to bring out their family and friends to participate in amazing opportunity for new talent.

2108             Third, we will contribute more than $1 million over seven years to another new talent initiative, the new Canadian female talent in blues and roots.  It will help Canadian emerging female artists to proudly take their place in the genre of blues and roots that is still overwhelmingly dominated by men.

2109             Fourth, we have created a total budget of a quarter of $1 million over seven years to provide cash scholarships to assist students studying music or journalism.

2110             Fifth, we are pleased to propose a continuation of our efforts to support two non‑profit radio organizations that bring diversity to the national and local radio landscapes: Aboriginal Voices Radio and Radio Enfant, which were received half $1 million each over seven years.

2111             We want to be an important part of celebrating Canadian talent and we have created an integrated approach to these initiatives, which includes our listeners and encourages their participation.  We strongly believe that the $6 million CCD initiatives package is worthy and relevant.

2112             MR. PARISIEN:  Mr. Chair and Commissioners, there are many reasons why we believe Eve‑FM is the right service and we are the right applicant.

2113             We propose an innovative radio concept that will offer relevant lifestyle programming to Ottawa's women, while expanding their musical choices.  We propose a high quality spoken word features created specifically to answer the needs and reflect the local community.  We propose 40 per cent Canadian musical content and $6 million of CCD initiatives with a clear emphasis on emerging artists.  We have the financial strength to deliver what we promise, as well as the relevant knowledge and expertise to bring Eve‑FM to success.

2114             Approval of our application will represent the best use of the radio spectrum, both in terms of population coverage and smallest interference with existing stations.

2115             Approval of our application will also contribute to greater competitive balance in the Ottawa market without causing undue harm to incumbent broadcasters.

2116             For all these reasons, we firmly believe that our application best meets the Commission's licensing criteria and strongly contributes to the objective of the Broadcasting Act.

2117             We thank you for your time and attention and look forward to the question period.

2118             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Parisien.

2119             As I stated earlier, we will break for lunch and come back at quarter past 1:00.

2120             The record shows that your CCD commitments is $5,866,900.  I understand that you have brought it up to $6 million only for the sake of probably the oral presentation, but during the question period we will want to make sure that the amount total is $5,866,900.

2121             So I am giving you the lunch break to adjust your presentation.

2122             Thank you very much.

2123             MR. PARISIEN:  It is going to be an expensive lunch.

‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires

2124             THE CHAIRPERSON:  Some savings!

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1156 / Suspension à 1156

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1316 / Reprise à 1316

2125             LE PRÉSIDENT :  Re‑bonjour.  On va passer par la phase interrogatoire.

2126             We go to the first questions and they will be asked by Commissioner Morin.

2127             CONSEILLER MORIN :  Bon après‑midi.  My first question will be perhaps about this graphic.

2128             How will your Eve‑FM station be different from the ones operating in the Ottawa/Gatineau market?

2129             MR. PARISIEN:  Well, we think that the concept of Eve‑FM is unique in the Gatineau market, in the English market of Ottawa and that it is exclusive.  It is the only concept of its sort, relying on soft music lifestyle, spoken words, the only one that is niched towards women of that demographic.

2130             I will let those who have participated more in the elaboration of the concept address your question, if you don't mind.

2131     &